Kyiv

I am not at all sure that I understand why there was any question asked about the differences between Russian and Ukrainian girls.

First, along with those in Belarus, they are all one ethnic group and social group. We could include others such as Pole and Czechs, but let's just stick with those in the former USSR. Up until 1991, you would have referred to them as one, as "Soviet" girls and not differentiated any deeper as we do now. It's only been 18 years later and it is a bit too soon to make any assumptions or characterizations about any possible changes in genetics or even the psychological differences amongst the three nationalities.

I have lived in Moscow and Kiev and can safely state that there is no difference with the girls in both places. They mostly approach things the same way, the only difference being just the individual's personality.

A girl in Moscow is not at all different from her counterpart in Kiev or in Minsk. Even provincial girls in Russia and in Ukraine are about the same in their approach to things. There really is a holdover from the culture, mindset and ethos not only from the 80 years under communism but also from the last 1000 years as basically one ethnic group.

I have also had many of the same issues such as not eating a thing at dinner after ordering a huge portion with girls in London and New York. How she behaves at dinner and what her sense of self and self-entitlement is simply a personal issue.

The fact is that it is how YOU relate and respond to that behavior. That is why some guys almost always succeed and others are miserable failures.

The only thing I care about at the end of the day or at the end of dinner is if she will go to bed with me.

So let's just get off this ethnic nonsense and stop with the attempts at stereotyping what simply is individual behavior.

[QUOTE=Uke Boy]I am not at all sure that I understand why there was any question asked about the differences between Russian and Ukrainian girls.

I have lived in Moscow and Kiev and can safely state that there is no difference with the girls in both places. They mostly approach things the same way, the only difference being just the individual's personality.

So let's just get off this ethnic nonsense and stop with the attempts at stereotyping what simply is individual behavior.[/QUOTE]I said my opinion was subjective and based only on personal experience in a limited demographic "sampling", nonetheless I have experienced that they are different in some ways. Maybe it is as much city girl vs. country girl as Russian vs. Ukrainian, nonetheless there are differences. Moscow girls are different than Kiev girls just as New York girls are different than California girls and as for Odessan girls, they are truly unique... :)

Additionally, there is a culture of scamming the western sex tourist/sexpat that exists in Kiev and Odessa that does not exist in Moscow or St.Petersburg. Westerners live different lives in Ukraine and Russia.

How many westerners have I encountered looking for marriage or purely on a sex tour in Ukraine? Many and seen even more.

How many westerners have I encountered looking for marriage or purely on a sex tour in Russia? Very few and virtually none in Moscow.

The scammers and serial daters are much more prevalent in Ukraine. I avoid these women like the plague, but if you are doing the internet and club circuit you will inevitably meet them.

I'll agree however that despite cultural differences that do exist based on growing up under different conditions, particularly economic but social as well, overall there are more similarities than there are differences. They are both wonderful in their own right.

Doc,

All of our views are subjective, based entirely on our personal experiences!

That being said, since I am not the typical sexpat, my observations are based on being a long-term boots on the ground local warrior who has been located on the Moscow and Kiev fronts. In fact, the typical sexpats I try and avoid at all cost.

I agree that scammers and serial daters are more prevalent in Ukraine since generally the standard of living is lower than in most of Russia transforming some of the girls into what is no better than a thief. However, you can get a sense of that real fast and run in another direction. If you fall for the scam, you deserve the consequences.

However, special mention should be made of Odessa. Even in Soviet times, it continued its long traditional role as the city of scammers, thieves, rapscallions, comedians and most any other dubious venture. Ostap Bender is the literary personification of Odessa. Nothing has changed today and I think and I hope that it may never change.

As for more westerners looking for marriage and/or sex tours in Ukraine than Russia, I would say that the lack of visa for Ukraine and the generally lower local costs has a lot to do with that. The girls are ethnically the same and just as good looking. The process for entering the country and the sometimes ridiculous costs of traveling and staying in Russia and especially Moscow make Ukraine very attractive as the better alternative for this type of tourist.

[QUOTE=Uke Boy]Doc,

All of our views are subjective, based entirely on our personal experiences!
.[/QUOTE]Yes exactly, and of the same I was asked. Everybody's opinion is subjective, that is the nature of the forum when describing experiences.
[QUOTE=Uke Boy]That being said, since I am not the typical sexpat, my observations are based on being a long-term boots on the ground local warrior who has been located on the Moscow and Kiev fronts. In fact, the typical sexpats I try and avoid at all cost.[/QUOTE]I know you are experienced and on the front, it's obvious from your posts, which I respect. I'm not typical either I suppose since I do actually work in EE and most of my contacts here are "normal girls" and not involved in P4P, scams, serial dating and what not... still, obviously anybody reading this forum or posting on it does occassionally delve into the world of sex for $$$ and the sexpat world isn't foreign to me.
[QUOTE=Uke Boy]If you fall for the scam, you deserve the consequences.
[/QUOTE]Agreed, and with some common sense scams can be easily avoided. Usually they are shamelessly obvious when one takes his dick out of the factor.

Despite any insinuation that Ukrainian girls are more conniving and sneaky than their Russian sisters, most girls are just girls with honest feelings, emotions, goals and reactions. We shouldn't lose sight of this. Arena, PaTiPa and River Palace are not Ukraine and the girls there are only a "choice" slice of the Ukrainian dyev demograph.
[QUOTE=Uke Boy]However, special mention should be made of Odessa. Even in Soviet times, it continued its long traditional role as the city of scammers, thieves, rapscallions, comedians and most any other dubious venture. Ostap Bender is the literary personification of Odessa. Nothing has changed today and I think and I hope that it may never change.
[/QUOTE]I agree. I've always said I have a love-hate relationship with Odessa. It can be heaven, it can be nerve-wracking and soul-crushing. But I've been going there every summer for my Odessa fix for almost a decade.

I guess we'll agree to disagree about the girls having some differences in behavior etc... indeed it's all subjective.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]I said my opinion was subjective and based only on personal experience in a limited demographic "sampling", nonetheless I have experienced that they are different in some ways. Maybe it is as much city girl vs. country girl as Russian vs. Ukrainian, nonetheless there are differences. Moscow girls are different than Kiev girls just as New York girls are different than California girls and as for Odessan girls, they are truly unique... :)

Additionally, there is a culture of scamming the western sex tourist/sexpat that exists in Kiev and Odessa that does not exist in Moscow or St.Petersburg. Westerners live different lives in Ukraine and Russia.

How many westerners have I encountered looking for marriage or purely on a sex tour in Ukraine? Many and seen even more.

How many westerners have I encountered looking for marriage or purely on a sex tour in Russia? Very few and virtually none in Moscow.

The scammers and serial daters are much more prevalent in Ukraine. I avoid these women like the plague, but if you are doing the internet and club circuit you will inevitably meet them.

I'll agree however that despite cultural differences that do exist based on growing up under different conditions, particularly economic but social as well, overall there are more similarities than there are differences. They are both wonderful in their own right.[/QUOTE]"Not a typical sexpat"? Right, mate, you've convinced us all: you're not a 'typical' sexpat. You've just been a sexpat longer (maybe) in Slavonia Lands -- that's the only difference.

[QUOTE=Jojosun]Waryman,

A great report of distinction, many thanks from london, came in very handy for me, prior to my landing in kiev next week.

I concur with the idea of agreeing a total package with a ta xi driver to visit apts, agree on the return fare, price for a girl etc, I woudn't fancy looking for a taxi in some obsecure kiev suburb. In fact this suggestion is valid for many destinatione in ee and central european countries, at least you have a buddy and a guide, in the taxi driver. And I would keep his no for return visits.

Only by reading and rereading the reports on salons in kiev, I figured out that salons are the term or name given for brothels in apartments "salon" is a term more common in Russia for brothel (generally with a line-up of girls and you choose). Beware that in Kiev "salon Krasi" is a hairdressers'. Note that paid sex is forbidden in most FSU countries and thus not overtly advertised. That is why is wise to count with a taxi driver or local help.

Anyway for straight paid sex, the big EE capitals are not the big deal unles you know them well.

Waryman from your insight and experience with kiev, would FS be available in erotic massage places there discreetly? , and if so how much extra would that be? Never tried seriously. Tourist traps!

And what goes on in sauna places any FS? [/QUOTE]Sauna is Southern UA. Moldova are in many cases hidden brothels. In Russia not so much, at least the most known ones.

[QUOTE=Duesentrieb]I can recommend the Strip-Club "Tixi Omut" at the Kharkovski-Raion (East Side of Kiev) to anyone who come to this fascinating City.

It is in Revutskogo street, very close to the well-known Restaurant "Xata Ribaka" (House of the fisherman), I was there at Thursday evening, it is a small Club with not more than eight tables for the Clients.

Entrance-fee is 75 Grivna, Drinks around 50 Grivna.

There were around ten nice girls which alternate to dance at the small stage, the Girls also come to your table and are stripping for you, in this case a little Tip is expected, in general there is a relaxed atmosphere.

The girls are friendly and open, but not pushy,most of them speak only russian.

You can also order a "private dance" in a seperate Room (aprox. 10 Minutes) for 200 Grivna, this includes full striptease and a little petting.

There is also a "Private Dance" with "Action" for 500 Grivnas, but I did not try.

In the house is also a Sauna, so it is very likely that you can hire some of the dancers for a private Sauna-Party.

The place is definitely worth a visit ![/QUOTE]Has anyone tried the private dance with action for 500 grivnas?

Is action FS?

This place sounds ideal for me reasonable prices and inhouse action.

[QUOTE=Waryman]Sauna is Southern UA. Moldova are in many cases hidden brothels. In Russia not so much, at least the most known ones.[/QUOTE]Many Thanks

You answered all my questions, hope I have a soft landing in Kiev soon.

[QUOTE=Zingadoon]"Not a typical sexpat"? Right, mate, you've convinced us all: you're not a 'typical' sexpat. You've just been a sexpat longer (maybe) in Slavonia Lands -- that's the only difference.[/QUOTE]None of us are sexpats or sex tourists. Get with the program. :)

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]None of us are sexpats or sex tourists. Get with the program. :)[/QUOTE]I think the preferred term is "monger."

Anyhow, I'm kind of new to the whole internet "dating" scene and was wondering if anyone could offer some tips on chatting up the girls on Mamba. Feels weird trying to somehow connect with someone over the net but I figure that is my best chance at freebies.

Maybe this has been mentioned before, but I just realized that if you use the GIA site in Russian, you immediately get a 40% discount (140 USD.- 900 GRV). Maybe they have not updated the prices as the GRV continues to devalue. I do not know. Worth a try.

Geez, I think I prefer sexpat to monger.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Geez, I think I prefer sexpat to monger.[/QUOTE]My preference is for "Connoisseur!"

Which good profiles have you found on Internet? Are there any new prostitute sites?

Which places in Kiev are the best to find cheap and nice prositutes?

Hi All,

I'm still looking for this girl, I've heard she also hangs in Odessa and Nikolaev but mostly Kiev. Does anyone have a current number or website for her? She goes by Vlada, Masha, Marina, Nina or ? Her name is Nina.

Thanks in advance,

Onlysurvivor

[QUOTE=Onlysurvivor]Hi,

I would like to check this girl out, I believe she has also worked as "Vlada". Do you have an updated number for this girl? The number listed is not working. If anyone has a working number I would be grateful, please PM me.

[blue][Link to Photo deleted by Admin][/blue]

TIA,

Onlysur,

vivor

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]The link originally included with this report was to a photo on another website, and thus it was deleted in accordance with the Forum's Photo Guidelines prohibiting links to photos on other websites. If you have photos you wish to share with the Forum Members, then please post them here. Please read the Forum's Photo Guidelines for further information.[i]Thank You.[/i][/blue][/size][/QUOTE]