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After Germany, France also now put under quarantine all UK, even vaccined or negative test, to try to protect versus Indian mutant highly spreading there despite vaccine high rate, when despite brexit, but UK are the closest to EU. Only Spain can t afford anymore to protect. EU put AZ in trial and stop with this vaccine.
[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2562770]Advice you to look carefully about the documents provided by Pfister and others to get approved, vaccines prevent you around 50% not to need a ICU bed, but you can get seriously sick for days and weeks. Nevertheless everyone can choose is destiny, I will not taking any risk just to fuck a prostitute, just because I believe it is at very high risk. Just try to understand why so many doctors and nurses even vaccinated are getting sick.[/QUOTE]This is real world data from the results of the British vaccination program, one of the most closely large population monitoring results out there. The western vaccines are unusually effective if not perfect, few other vaccines for other diseases are so good.
[QUOTE=HammerTime96;2562778]
Last year, vaccinations were pumped and promoted as 'stopping Covid19,' but now suddenly the narrative has shifted to 'you still get it, but you'll be LESS sick. ' Hahahahaha!
Please explain the "science" that fully 'vaccinated' people will still have to socially distance and wear your face diaper.[/QUOTE]I am not aware any scientist ever claims "vaccinations will stop Covid19", vaccine will be 100% effective. If you have evidence, link please!!
What have you probably seen is that a tabloid exaggerating the news? Keep in mind, the editor of a the tabloid is highly likely not a health expert, or virologist.
Nowadays almost every child/ toddler (if not all) gets various vaccinations. The decision is made by their parents. It does not matter whether later in your life when become an adult you want to reject the vaccine. It is already in your body.
You do not need to be a genius to understand that vaccination will not stop people from getting infection. What it does is to significantly reduce the chance of getting infection. That is the value that we accept and or forced to accept since in our childhood.
[QUOTE=Downandup;2563079]This is real world data from the results of the British vaccination program, one of the most closely large population monitoring results out there. The western vaccines are unusually effective if not perfect, few other vaccines for other diseases are so good.[/QUOTE]Problem is that lots of people (usually the grumpy and paranoid ones) still listen to the likes of our good French doctor Didier Raoult despite the fact that he has been proven wrong constantly since one year.
[QUOTE=Downandup;2563079]This is real world data from the results of the British vaccination program, one of the most closely large population monitoring results out there. The western vaccines are unusually effective if not perfect, few other vaccines for other diseases are so good.[/QUOTE]What I really will never understand, all the figures are looking very positive, efficiency is also there against the Indian variant but more and restriction are put on place for travelers from the UK or India. Why in Marseilles 400+ people already with the 2 doses are sick, why so many doctors and nurses vaccinated are getting sick and some are dying. For me all those vaccines are just as efficient as the normal flue vaccine but life must go on so better to make the people think in the directions of the governments want. Are you aware that all those labs were condemned for bribery.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2562957]Same. The accidental leak seems to be very plausible. But the jump to human virulence does imply that human manipulation played a role.[/QUOTE]The way I interpret the below (removed middle part for sake of brevity): virologists do not yet possess the skill to develop a virulent virus from scratch; they can only take an already virulent virus and make minor tweaks to it. But SARS-CoV-2 does not closely resemble anything they have seen before. Is this not the general negative opinion many hold of Chinese? They cannot develop anything themselves, they only know how to steal technology and make minor tweaks.
The devious ching-chongs could have randomly manipulated the genetic material, trying different combinations until they got lucky. I have no idea what kind of brute force effort or luck would be required. Would it be similar to digital encryption where it would take the fastest supercomputer a million years to crack 256-bit AES encryption?
[QUOTE][b]To genetically engineer a new virus, scientists can combine pieces of viruses they’ve seen before. In the case of a genetically engineered coronavirus that was designed to infect humans, the bulk of its genetic material — its “backbone” — would come from SARS or a close relative, while the tools it used to infect cells would be grafted on. But the backbone doesn’t look like any disease-causing virus, and other key parts of the virus are new to science.[/b]
But, Garry said, the tip of the SARS-CoV-2 spike is unlike anything scientists have seen before, sharing only a single key amino acid with SARS. Modeling suggests that it shouldn’t be able to bind to human lungs well, but the new configuration is about as effective as the optimized SARS.
How SARS-CoV-2 acquired this unusual tip is still a mystery. [b]But blaming it on genetic engineering overstates the abilities of scientists[/b], Garry said. Guessing that these particular amino acids can bind to ACE2 so effectively is nearly impossible— there are 20 common types of amino acids, and tens of millions of ways to arrange them into a binding tip. It would be like if you looked out over the proverbial infinite monkeys with their infinite typewriters, guessed that a specific macaque would type out King Lear, and then picked the right animal.
“Nobody has that kind of insight into how the viruses evolve or cause disease,” said Garry. [b]“You could randomly try to make changes, but we’re talking about thousands of years of trying pathogens out. I’ve been really lucky to know a lot of talented virologists, and they’re not clever enough to come up with a virus that’s quite this good at spreading.”[/b]
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-scientists-think-the-novel-coronavirus-developed-naturally-not-in-a-chinese-lab/.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Mursenary;2562957]Agreed. I know you enough to not be that clever. Pussy! Then again, those sneaky ching chongs. Jkjkjk![/QUOTE]I will leave the leading questions and cross-examination of witnesses to someone like yourself, who is clever enough to think six moves ahead.
[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2563126]Why in Marseilles 400+ people already with the 2 doses are sick, why so many doctors and nurses vaccinated are getting sick and some are dying.[/QUOTE]Anyone else hear about the 400+ sick vaccinated people in Marseille? Or the dying doctors and nurses?
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2562955]Are your views aligned with Biden's and Fauci's?[/QUOTE]Fauci simply says they need to investigate the matter further. His exact words when asked if it is possible that the virus is not naturally occuring: "That is a possibility". But he never quantifies how likely or unlikely he believes that possibility to be. Like most scientists, Fauci seems to not like being pinned down. If I am allowed to be pedantic, something can simultaneously be considered both possible and highly unlikely. For instance, one could say that it possible to win the lottery, but also realize that it is highly unlikely.
Apparently Fauci himself does not believe he flip-flopped according to what he told a reporter this Monday:
[QUOTE]Some used Fauci's recent comments about the potential of a lab being the source of COVID-19 as a means of maligning his credibility. [b]Fauci, however, denied he switched his stance on the origin, telling a reporter on Monday that he still believes it's a naturally occurring virus but since it can't be fully proven, he's open to investigating other theories.[/b]
https://www.newsweek.com/timeline-what-dr-fauci-has-said-about-wuhan-lab-covids-origins-1594698
[/QUOTE]In May 2020, Fauci does not speak with absolute certainty. He states that virologists are "strongly leaning" toward the virus being naturally occuring.
[QUOTE]"There's two issues. If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats, and what's out there now it's very, very strongly leaning toward this virus could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated—the way the mutations have naturally evolved. A number of very qualified evolutionary biologists have said that everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that it evolved in nature and then jumped species"[/QUOTE]Biden says the the IC has coalesced around two scenarios: naturally occurring or lab accident. This is EXACTLY what the Director of National Intelligence said in May 2020. And what I concurred with in May 2020.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2563245]Fauci simply says they need to investigate the matter further. His exact words when asked if it is possible that the virus is not naturally occuring: "That is a possibility". But he never quantifies how likely or unlikely he believes that possibility to be. Like most scientists, Fauci seems to not like being pinned down. If I am allowed to be pedantic, something can simultaneously be considered both possible and highly unlikely. For instance, one could say that it possible to win the lottery, but also realize that it is highly unlikely.
Apparently Fauci himself does not believe he flip-flopped according to what he told a reporter this Monday:
In May 2020, Fauci does not speak with absolute certainty. He states that virologists are "strongly leaning" toward the virus being naturally occuring.
Biden says the the IC has coalesced around two scenarios: naturally occurring or lab accident. This is EXACTLY what the Director of National Intelligence said in May 2020. And what I concurred with in May 2020.[/QUOTE]Everyone can judge if Fauci did flip and flop or not. He is an honorable man but even he will not admit a mistake publicly, few people do. Even the way you characterized his statements (I am too lazy to data check all your quotes), it was totally irresponsible on his part then to have (a) washed his hands off the matter by pointing to other virologists (b) even if that was a strong chance, it was not 100% chance and something that could be so egregiously horrible needed to be investigated to the last detail and not evading responsibility by pointing to the views of other virologists.
Since you are a scientist I believe, at least the slimeball implied it and also claimed the same status for himself (don't remember if his pimp was also a scientist), when you presented your scientific conclusions, did you do it with "I think X is almost 95% certain, probably 99% certain because that's what my gut tells me" (about Chinese authorities in this case) but whatever is the appropriate gut instinct in the proof you are presenting? QED.
So, there is a chance a genocide may have been committed. I don't know if it is 1% chance, 2% chance 0. 01% chance. Even back in May 2020, I had said "I will let you put the probabilities". Are you claiming it is 0% chance? If so, please present your evidence, and something more than whatever you think are commonsense arguments and gut instincts.
If it is a non zero chance, I want to know how you decided it is not worth pursuing and worth turning a blind eye to. You made some laughable excuse that because Hua Wei's business was killed in reaction to the Covid crime (it was not; Hua Wei was considered for entity list from 2019 itself, and Meng Wangzhou was arrested in 2018). In your view, a genocide and business sanctions on a criminal enterprise make it even stevens.
Even when a solitary murder is committed, are police expected to drop a lead because in their view, that lead is not very likely? But here, you kept arguing China was absolutely unlikely to have leaked the virus intentionally (note: a deliberate leak does not need to come from Xi himself. Could be a rogue element in the lab somewhere). In fact, it would be nice to hear that you are even supportive of a proper, open, no limit, investigation w / o the interference of the CCP thugs.
I don't have any doubt you will again be evasive as usual and pick and harp on some totally irrelevant point and play to your gallery. Anyway, that is your prerogative.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2563238]Anyone else hear about the 400+ sick vaccinated people in Marseille? Or the dying doctors and nurses?[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5ksZgwL7BA&ab_channel=IHUM%C3%A9diterran%C3%A9e-InfectionIHUM%C3%A9diterran%C3%A9e-Infection[/URL]
It is from 10 of mai now it is 400+, just as a small reminder IHU Marseilles is the team which published the most on viruses and covid.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2563238]Anyone else hear about the 400+ sick vaccinated people in Marseille? Or the dying doctors and nurses?[/QUOTE]The 400 figure comes from Didier Raoult, the famous French doctor who is always wrong and constantly craving for attention. And it's 400 infected or positive but they don't all have symptoms. The good doctor is carefully avoiding to say if they are really afflicted or not.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2563245]Fauci simply says they need to investigate the matter further. His exact words when asked if it is possible that the virus is not naturally occuring: "That is a possibility". But he never quantifies how likely or unlikely he believes that possibility to be. Like most scientists, Fauci seems to not like being pinned down. If I am allowed to be pedantic, something can simultaneously be considered both possible and highly unlikely. For instance, one could say that it possible to win the lottery, but also realize that it is highly unlikely.
Apparently Fauci himself does not believe he flip-flopped according to what he told a reporter this Monday:
In May 2020, Fauci does not speak with absolute certainty. He states that virologists are "strongly leaning" toward the virus being naturally occuring.
Biden says the the IC has coalesced around two scenarios: naturally occurring or lab accident. This is EXACTLY what the Director of National Intelligence said in May 2020. And what I concurred with in May 2020.[/QUOTE]Precise and detailed as usual. However, I personally think we will never find patient 0 and know exactly where Covid originated. It may not even have originated in China, given its ability to transmit (via aerosol) and therefore spread exponentially around the world. For other types of viruses, identifying patient 0 is easier. E. g. The outbreak of Chapare virus in Colombia in 2020 was contained very well as soon as the virus acquired the ability to transmit from human to human. This is because that particular virus only transmits via contact and the spread is therefore much slower. I think they have even identified patient 0 now.
[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2563126]What I really will never understand, all the figures are looking very positive, efficiency is also there against the Indian variant but more and restriction are put on place for travelers from the UK or India. Why in Marseilles 400+ people already with the 2 doses are sick, why so many doctors and nurses vaccinated are getting sick and some are dying. For me all those vaccines are just as efficient as the normal flue vaccine but life must go on so better to make the people think in the directions of the governments want. Are you aware that all those labs were condemned for bribery.[/QUOTE]In Europe you are, on average, 30 times more likely to be murdered than having a serious reaction to AstraZeneca Covid vaccine, just to put things into perspective.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2563238]Anyone else hear about the 400+ sick vaccinated people in Marseille? Or the dying doctors and nurses?[/QUOTE]
Oppps Only 400? and only a few dying doctors and nurses !!! lol. Considering millions of people have been vaccinated in France it should be more is it not??
I think I know what has happened. The nurses is getting jab by an infected patient using a special syringe from e.g., the patient private part. The vaccine is also very special as it comes directly from the patient private part. Other nurses then keeps getting jab by the doctors and other patients so they are all have been vaccinated.
Those who are sensible and have evidence that could stand scrutiny will see this as a golden opportunity to make money if the news has not been covered elsewhere.
Those who have evidence about 400+ sick vaccinated people or the dying doctors and nurses in Marseille sell news to the newspaper to make money.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2563217]The way I interpret the below (removed middle part for sake of brevity): virologists do not yet possess the skill to develop a virulent virus from scratch; they can only take an already virulent virus and make minor tweaks to it. But SARS-CoV-2 does not closely resemble anything they have seen before. Is this not the general negative opinion many hold of Chinese? They cannot develop anything themselves, they only know how to steal technology and make minor tweaks.
The devious ching-chongs could have randomly manipulated the genetic material, trying different combinations until they got lucky. I have no idea what kind of brute force effort or luck would be required. Would it be similar to digital encryption where it would take the fastest supercomputer a million years to crack 256-bit AES encryption?
I will leave the leading questions and cross-examination of witnesses to someone like yourself, who is clever enough to think six moves ahead.[/QUOTE]The second half of the passage ignores one thing: The Shotgun Approach.
I've been out of the lab for over 10 years so am not up to date on the minutia of the current tech, but even back then, if you wanted to create a complimentary protein that binds to a receptor, it could be done by sequencing the amino acid chain with a specific region that has affinity for the receptor. While predicting how an amino acid chain would fold into its final protein form is quite a challenge, you would not have to do it with precision. Instead, you create numerous candidate amino acid chains containing that specific region, then you isolate the ones with affinity to the receptor using various methods such as tagging it with a fluorescent antibody. Once isolated, you just reverse sequence the corresponding DNA / rna sequence and insert it in your new virus using the most appropriate delivery vector for that virus. The rest is just the nuts and bolts of ensuring that your new virus expresses the protein. That's the theory anyway.
Anyway, the Chinese have the resources. Most state universities with a top tier microbiology department do. I just question why the Chinese would purposefully unleash a plan like that. Considering their new found formidable yet insecure position on the world stage, they had too much to lose to risk such a devious plan.
As for type of research they might have been conducting, all sorts of reasons exists. Outside of purposefully engineering a bioweapon, it could have even been an altruistic venture such as creating an inert protein that neutralizes the pathogenicity of a future SARS virus. After all, that region of the world have been dealing those types of endemics for quite a while, which each new strain having the potential for more severe disease. At any step leading to a final product, there could have been all sorts of steps from original virus to a final beneficial strand with intermediaries having unintended pathogenic properties. Such is the process of scientific development that the general public does not consider. It's sexier to go straight to the narrative of good versus evil, us versus them, rather than chalking things up to mere incompetence.
It's human nature to believe there is a plan devised by a more powerful authority. In a way it gives them comfort. It's much scarier for people to think that we are floating around with no plan or purpose. It's the basis of religion. Most people don't want to believe that they are insignificant.