Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus!

[QUOTE=RockyV;2563291]Precise and detailed as usual. However, I personally think we will never find patient 0 and know exactly where Covid originated. It may not even have originated in China, given its ability to transmit (via aerosol) and therefore spread exponentially around the world.[/QUOTE]Point of contention and a personal one as it affects my daily life with PPE requirements.

It's not actually aerosol. It's mainly droplet. By happenstance, it may become aerosolized temporarily under high pressure such as sneezes or medical respiratory devices.

Main point, it being a droplet disease, simple face coverings prevent most transmission. Transient aerosolization (becoming airborne) happens buy that's not the actual mode of transmission. All that focus on sanitizing surfaces and wearing full hazmat suits is quite a waste of resources. That is unless people are sucking the air from other people's sneezes or licking surfaces after an infected person recently just coughed on it.

Get vaccinated or just plop on a simple face covering and transmission would be negligible.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2563278]Since you are a scientist I believe,[/QUOTE]He's not.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2563278]at least the slimeball implied it and also claimed the same status for himself (don't remember if his pimp was also a scientist)[/QUOTE]Former scientist. But weren't you the one who went on and on about how I'm *just* a lowly researcher? Respect and love to my research scientists out there!

But I'm not the type of slimeball that pledged "fealty" to another human in front of state or religious officials (perhaps both) only to betray the trust of the co-parent to his progeny. Shame on you, you sinner.

Slimeball, LOL. What a boomer word.

Why would China release the virus?

I'm not saying that China did purposely release the virus, but let's have a look at the numbers.

[URL]https://tradingeconomics.com/china/gdp-growth-annual[/URL]

[URL]https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-growth[/URL]

Let's see what's happening in the world, and the connection between Chinese vaccines, growing influence, PR victories and expensive loans.

[URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-26/-comrade-xi-statue-serbia-wants-to-thank-its-friends-in-china[/URL]

[URL]https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.rferl.org/amp/china-in-eurasia-hungary-montenegro-standish/31238707.html[/URL]

[URL]https://apnews.com/article/sao-paulo-china-coronavirus-pandemic-business-global-trade-b455cc11c8a971fd1b72230e3b6be7b3[/URL]

OK here are two sets of statements from Fauci:

"If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what's out there now, the scientific evidence is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated. Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that this virus evolved in nature and then jumped species," Fauci says.

[URL]https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/anthony-fauci-no-scientific-evidence-the-coronavirus-was-made-in-a-chinese-lab-cvd[/URL]

And now; Dr Fauci in May 2021:

"I am not convinced about that," he added. "I think we should continue to investigate what went on in China until we continue to find out to the best of our ability what happened. ".

He continued: "Certainly, the people who investigated it say it likely was the emergence from an animal reservoir that then infected individuals, but it could have been something else, and we need to find that out. So, you know, that's the reason why I said I'm perfectly in favor of any investigation that looks into the origin of the virus."

Yes, entirely consistent. That is what MacAdonis says.

I am perfectly happy if Fauci changes his views. When new evidence comes in, a good scientist changes his views. But McA claims Fauci did not change his views. Do the two sets of statements above sound identical? To McA perhaps.

Here is McA's evasion: In May 2020 when I argued with you, the dispute was not whether it could have originated in a lab. You conceded it was not impossible then.

But McA maintained categorically that it was impossible that China deliberately leaked it. From Xi himself or a rogue actor. Period. Impossible. How did he know?

If a genocide occurred, however remote chance it might have been, we are supposed to go with the gut instinct of sino apologists that it is impossible for China to ever have taken such a rogue action. After all the regime that killed millions of their own citizens in past purges and who threatens Taiwan everyday and purged thousands in Tibet and Xinjiang, is incapable of such atrocity, as per these people. So, we should abide by the gut instincts of sino apologists and assume that a deliberate leak never happened.

However, there are people who would want to get to the bottom of this and not necessarily take the word of CCP rogue regime about a potential genocide. That unfortunately does not appeal to the sino apologists (whoever they may be).

From the far rightwing rag aka MIT Tech Review:

[URL]https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/03/26/1021263/bat-covid-coronavirus-cause-origin-wuhan/[/URL]

"It's important to know how the pandemic started, because after killing more than 2. 5 million people and causing trillions of dollars in economic losses, it's not over. The virus may well be establishing itself in new species, like wild rabbits or even house pets. Learning how the pandemic began could help health experts avert the next one, or at least react more swiftly.

We know that the payoffs of origin hunting are real. After the 2003 SARS outbreak, researchers started building up a big knowledge base about this type of virus. That knowledge is what turbocharged the development process for vaccines against the new coronavirus in early 2020.

One price of the politically charged atmosphere is that an entire year passed before WHO origins investigators got on the ground, arriving in January for a closely chaperoned trip. "It's a year later, so you have to ask what took so long," says Alan Schnur, a former WHO epidemiologist in China who helped track the original SARS outbreak. During that year, memories faded and so did antibodies, possibly erasing key clues. ".

Again and again, it comes back to the same thing: Who has an incentive to erase evidence of a crime? Who has the incentive to obstruct investigation? Why are so many sino apologists so supportive of that rogue regime, a regime that may have directly or negligently perpetrated a genocide? Why do these apologists have so little regard for human life but work super hard to absolve the rogue regime of any culpability?

(this is addressed to sino apologists, whoever they may be).

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2563314]Why would China release the virus?

I'm not saying that China did purposely release the virus, but let's have a look at the numbers.

[URL]https://tradingeconomics.com/china/gdp-growth-annual[/URL]

[URL]https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-growth[/URL]

Let's see what's happening in the world, and the connection between Chinese vaccines, growing influence, PR victories and expensive loans.

[URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-26/-comrade-xi-statue-serbia-wants-to-thank-its-friends-in-china[/URL]

[URL]https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.rferl.org/amp/china-in-eurasia-hungary-montenegro-standish/31238707.html[/URL]

[URL]https://apnews.com/article/sao-paulo-china-coronavirus-pandemic-business-global-trade-b455cc11c8a971fd1b72230e3b6be7b3[/URL][/QUOTE]Obviously they have benefitted. Their attempts at burying the story late in 2019 should result in reparations to the world of some sort whether the source was zoonotic, accidental, or intentional.

Hey, maybe they did release it intentionally. That cannot be 100% ruled out. But temporary economic growth when they were already in a position of strength and gaining favor with then Serbian Communist party hardly seems worth becoming more of a pariah to their geographic neighbors and to western nations, especially when it is completely contrary to their previous decades of power sequestration that was characterized by stepwise and precise methods.

Logic would suggest that if they were to commit an act of global mass murder, they would do it when they were either in a position of desperation or if they saw an opportunity to deal a finishing blow to their rivals. Neither of those were / are the reality.

Investigating the source is warranted. Demanding accountability is warranted. But accusing without proper evidence is just detrimental warmongering speak.

[QUOTE=Mursenary;2563303]The second half of the passage ignores one thing: The Shotgun Approach[/QUOTE]Video and transcript: [URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-lab-manmade-myth-debunked-2020-6?r=DE&IR=T[/URL].

Creating the backbone of a virulent virus from scratch is virtually impossible. So the only known way to produce a new deadly virus inside of a lab is to use an existing backbone. The recycled backbone approach allows for two options.

[QUOTE][b]Simply, there is just not enough knowledge about how to make a new virus that would also cause significant devastation, like SARS-CoV-2 has. So creating a new, deadly backbone is pretty much impossible. But there is another way the novel coronavirus could have been created in a lab, and that would be using an existing virus backbone or genetic sequence as a starting point[/b][/QUOTE]Existing backbone, option one: random additions, deletions:

[QUOTE]They could've either quickly mutated it, or added and deleted parts of the existing virus. But additions and deletions in a virus leave a trace that can be pointed out pretty quickly, a little bit like removing a red brick from a wall and replacing it with a black brick.[/QUOTE]Existing backbone, option two, mutating an existing virus:

[QUOTE]This is known as serial passage and acts in a similar way to selective breeding. Scientists are able to mimic evolution, to a degree. By forcing the virus to mutate over and over again into a potentially different form. This can be used to weaken a virus, which is how some vaccines have been made, or to strengthen a virus, say, by making it more transmissible.

But for this to work, the existing virus would have to show significant genetic similarity to the new virus. In fact, they would have to be almost identical. Yet Garry and his team found that the backbone for SARS-CoV-2 was strictly unique, differing significantly from other coronaviruses. The best candidate is RaTG13, a bat coronavirus with a 96% gene sequence similarity. .[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2563283]The 400 figure comes from Didier Raoult, the famous French doctor who is always wrong and constantly craving for attention. And it's 400 infected or positive but they don't all have symptoms. The good doctor is carefully avoiding to say if they are really afflicted or not.[/QUOTE]Yeah, just saw ExPat's video.

In summary, it broke down the roughly 9555 positive cases in what I assume to be found in that region from 7. Jan to 7. May. 350 of those were vaccinated with only 40 having had both jabs (not all 350). The video further goes on to breakdown the nature of the cases. His data suggests that the ratio of symptomatic cases and hospitalizations were the same when comparing vaccinated people with at least one vaccine dose to the unvaccinated population.

Giving the publisher of video the benefit of the doubt in regards to data accuracy since they did not cite sources; and ExPat the benefit in regards to the oversight of claiming that 400 people with 2 doses tested positive when only 40 had received both, the good news from the video was that of the the 9555 covid+ cases, only 40 were found in fully vaccinated people.

Of those 40, only 4 showed symptoms. That means that only 10% of fully vaccinated covid+ people even show symptoms. Unfortunately, it did not discuss the severity of symptoms in the fully vaccinated, so maybe 0% hospitalized?

In comparison, of the 9205 non-vaccinated covid+ cases, 8747 showed symptoms. That's a 95% chance of having symptoms when you are not vaccinated get infected compared to only 10% when you are fully vaccinated. That means getting vaccinated reduces your chance of showing symptoms by 9. 5 x.

Thank you ExPat for sharing such good news about vaccine efficacy!

P.S. I'm kinda impressed with myself for extracted the information from a video spoken and written totally in French. Bravo me.

[QUOTE=Mursenary;2562962]The WHO says so. No evidence to think otherwise.

[URL]https://www.dw.com/en/covid-vaccines-effective-against-all-known-variants-says-who/a-57600323[/URL][/QUOTE]Thanks for posting that DW link to the WHO report on J&J. Vielen Dank!

Patient 0 and patient 1 was found dead in a bat cave in Yunnan province in 2015. It was formerly a mining cave. This is a fact! Then the researchers (some Satanista) brought the virus samples from the cave to the Wuhan lab.

And there they ran the virus through the petri dish experiments multiple times in order to test different mutations. Thus speeding up the normal mutation process by tens of thousands of years. And at the end of the gain of function lab tests, we had covid19.

USA funded it:

[URL]https://www.businesstoday.in/current/economy-politics/shocking-us-gave-37-million-to-chinas-wuhan-lab-that-conducted-coronavirus-tests-on-bats/story/400831.html[/URL]

And France (especially funded by billionaire Alan Mérieux) conducted the training of the researchers:

[URL]https://www.mediapart.fr/en/journal/france/310520/strange-saga-how-france-helped-build-wuhans-top-security-virus-lab?_locale=en&onglet=full[/URL]

And we all know China did the whole coverup.

This is a true collaborative effort in order to both reduce the human population, create methods of control and implement a modern financial system aligned with modern and future automation, blockchain and AI technology.

[QUOTE=Mursenary;2563313]He's not.

Former scientist. But weren't you the one who went on and on about how I'm *just* a lowly researcher? Respect and love to my research scientists out there!

But I'm not the type of slimeball that pledged "fealty" to another human in front of state or religious officials (perhaps both) only to betray the trust of the co-parent to his progeny. Shame on you, you sinner.

Slimeball, LOL. What a boomer word.[/QUOTE]I have enormous respect for researchers, more so for the productive ones; and wish they would get paid more especially the ones doing truly fundamental research in academia. I have a couple of friends, extremely bright people, who spent years in lowly paid post doc roles. I did not insult you because you are a lowly researcher, I claimed you were a researcher and not a physician. That was a deduction. If I am wrong in my deduction, so be it.

I have no doubt I am a sleazeball myself for doing what I am doing, but I cover my tracks well and one can't be hurt by what they do not know. Not a rationalization, just a fact so far. And you would have more credibility with your insults if you demonstrated that you stayed loyal after 15+ years of marriage but you can't. From Gates and Bezos on, many men I respect have cheated; at least in my defense I am good in terms of my support and deeds otherwise.

Boomer. Whatever. In a year, you would have reached that status yourself and one of the things you pride most about yourself would be gone, forever. Poor baby.

There have however for years been a shift towards liberalizing and legalizing the p6 law. And even rewriting what constitutes a pimp. Mainly among the youth parties, as the divide between the young generation z and the boomers / get why seems to be a strong one in this case. That is how all the right wing parties shifted. And it seems to be the trend across the left side also, just that it takes longer there.

There is also a joke sentiment to everything related to Swedish politics sometimes. So being anti Swedish can even be an argument of itself when we see the swedes be naive.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2563217]The way I interpret the below (removed middle part for sake of brevity): virologists do not yet possess the skill to develop a virulent virus from scratch; they can only take an already virulent virus and make minor tweaks to it. But SARS-CoV-2 does not closely resemble anything they have seen before. Is this not the general negative opinion many hold of Chinese? They cannot develop anything themselves, they only know how to steal technology and make minor tweaks.

The devious ching-chongs could have randomly manipulated the genetic material, trying different combinations until they got lucky. I have no idea what kind of brute force effort or luck would be required. Would it be similar to digital encryption where it would take the fastest supercomputer a million years to crack 256-bit AES encryption?

I will leave the leading questions and cross-examination of witnesses to someone like yourself, who is clever enough to think six moves ahead.[/QUOTE]To clarify, my gut instinct is that it actually does have a natural origin. I just meant to say that artificial engineering is *possible* if one were to take a Shotgun Approach to modifying an already evolved virus, not to create one from scratch.

I'll add my personal hunch of what I think actually happened leading up to December 2019, given all the probabilities and possibilities. Considering all of the other acquired traits of this virus (such as efficient human antibody evasion), it evolved naturally from animal to humans in a less pathogenic form. Over time, it acquired various traits that allowed it to infect the host without much harm to the host (That's parasite life 101). After some period of relatively dormant virulence, a more lethal strain eventually popped up in natural human circulation. At this point, it began its spread to God knows how far. (Donated blood in the United States from December 2019 already showed cases of SARS-CoV2 antibodies, which means that the virus was circulating around much earlier, at least since October 2019.)

The Chinese government or even maybe just the WIV itself likely had isolated the virus prior to the Wuhan outbreak and were likely already studying it. All of the other tidbits about labs leaks and bioweapons may be possible, but scientifically plausible? I'm not so sure. It could be just as likely that as the scientists in Wuhan were studying the virus, they became infected and jumpstarted the spread. Even this simple goof would cause to Chinese government to cover it up to "save face. " Given their history, protecting their image of control and competency is completely consistent with their modus operandi.