Angeles City

[QUOTE=Rob Woodrow]Start at post #5115 in this thread (currently on page 35) and read backwards. Make up your own mind about which side of the story is true.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, I had a read.

This type of stuff happens everywhere in the 3rd world.

[QUOTE=Rob Woodrow]Yup, like with Watergate, the coverup is worse than the crime. And the France/Detroit comparison is flawed. If some bar employees beat a guy up and the bar denied involvement and in fact denied the incident completely, I'd probably stop going to that bar. Nobody's talking about not going to AC at all.[/QUOTE]

I am sorry to disagree but if this happened in Detroit, the bar's lawyers would instruct the bar to make no comment, the insurance companies would take over any discussions with the victim, and legal defenses would abound. While I am a local resident and assume you are at least a frequent traveller, given the number of your posts, a newbie reading for the first time visit to PH, might worry that the Angeles strip is one fraught with danger. Right below your response is a post by Lala Bay, which more accurately describes what the guest to Angeles can expect. In regards to DH, I've been in their bars on regular occasions, some of their venues I like, such as Crystal Palace and some I don't care for the Doll House Club, itself. But I've never felt threatened attending any of their bars. Just a week ago, waiting for my friends outside Crystal Palace, had an amusing five minutes cutting up with their door girls and door men. They did not behave like thugs to me.

Then as the post above yours suggests, that this happens all the time in third world countries, I would argue that it happens much less in Angeles than in other red light districts in third world countries. Having lived in China, the stories abound about the street touts who regularly entice unwary travellers to serious rip off joints and engage in physical assault and robbery. I would suggest this happens on a nightly basis in Shanghai, as an example.

To newbie's, none of this suggests you should throw caution to the wind and behave in an unsafe manner. You should not engage with vendors, beggars, freelancers and people of the street. Don't flash cash in public. Don't go anywhere with people you don't know, or travel down dark streets and alleys. Don't become so intoxicated such to not be in control of yourself or your safety. Don't get into conflicts with locals, keep a smile on your face and be polite. If you have concerns about your plans or thinking of doing something outside of the main districts, ask your hotel manager, most can advise you on the safety issue.

Matius is 100% correct. As a frequent traveler into China on business, I would be very wary of which club I enter due to rip-offs.

I am in Angeles now and the area around Fields is safe and I feel pretty secure. I don't frequent the Doll House because they tend to be less honest with the bill but the bars I frequent (HoneyKos, Cambodia, Insomnia and Forbidden City) are pretty accurate in how they charge the customer.

BTW, Angeles is pretty deserted right now and all of the Mamasans have complained that business is pretty bad.

[QUOTE=Philosophery]...BTW, Angeles is pretty deserted right now and all of the Mamasans have complained that business is pretty bad.[/QUOTE]


and this means a huge selection of girls! For a customer it cannot be better, can it!? :)

Cheers!

Hesekiels

[QUOTE=Hesekiels]and this means a huge selection of girls! For a customer it cannot be better, can it!? :)

Cheers!

Hesekiels[/QUOTE]Oh my God! Yes!

That's what I want hehe. Going there next month.

[QUOTE=Matius]I am sorry to disagree but if this happened in Detroit, the bar's lawyers would instruct the bar to make no comment, the insurance companies would take over any discussions with the victim, and legal defenses would abound.

(snip)

To newbie's, none of this suggests you should throw caution to the wind and behave in an unsafe manner. You should not engage with vendors, beggars, freelancers and people of the street. Don't flash cash in public. Don't go anywhere with people you don't know, or travel down dark streets and alleys. Don't become so intoxicated such to not be in control of yourself or your safety. Don't get into conflicts with locals, keep a smile on your face and be polite. If you have concerns about your plans or thinking of doing something outside of the main districts, ask your hotel manager, most can advise you on the safety issue.[/QUOTE]

Hi Matius,

I don't actually think there is a disagreement here in your latest post with what Rob said.

His position as stated is rather that he would not avoid Detroit because one bar bashed a patron, but he would avoid the bar concerned.

His concern with the original Detroit analogy was that it stated that people who were trying to avoid/not recommend Dollhouse, were somehow trying to give the message "don't come to Angeles". That was not what was being said.

The first point being made is that there are plenty of bars in Angeles (so people can still come, right?) and one can still avoid Dollhouse to minimise risk. So no implication about Angeles (or Detroit) as a whole can be drawn because one bar (maybe) screwed up.

The second point being made is that Dollhouse could have acted quickly to kill this by helping the guy concerned and doing some robust investigation and defence of itself. Because it did not do that, the incident is fast becoming urban legend (myth or fact, I do not know).

You expressed some irritation/frustration about the matter coming up again.

That is understandable. However, only Dollhouse can do anything about that, by clearing the matter up. The longer they delay, the longer the legend will simmer, and unfortunately if they do not clear it up very soon, you will have to be putting up with various newb and other postings here about 'the dollhouse bashing of a Swede'....forever. That's the problem with urban legends.

[QUOTE=Philosophery]BTW, Angeles is pretty deserted right now and all of the Mamasans have complained that business is pretty bad.[/QUOTE]
I am also here right now and I don't think it is deserted. I walked in four bars in a row last night at 10 pm and I couldn't get a table. A few bar were not too busy, but then come back in a hour and things change.

Robb

[QUOTE=Matius]I am sorry to disagree but if this happened in Detroit, the bar's lawyers would instruct the bar to make no comment, the insurance companies would take over any discussions with the victim, and legal defenses would abound.[/QUOTE]
I realize that, and it changes nothing. I still wouldn't go to the bar until the dispute was settled and I found out the "truth". This is another case of us not disagreeing as much as it would seem on the surface. I do agree with the general gist of your post. I'll agree with Rubberyman too.

[QUOTE=Rob Woodrow]I realize that, and it changes nothing. I still wouldn't go to the bar until the dispute was settled and I found out the "truth". This is another case of us not disagreeing as much as it would seem on the surface. I do agree with the general gist of your post. I'll agree with Rubberyman too.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough, and think it speaks to the type of experience we want all guests to have. Any bar or establishment in our town that does not act in a responsible way is not respected, a point which perhaps separates Angeles from other red light districts. Locals and frequent guests don't want to see our town become haven for criminals and thugish behaviour. For those who have never visited Angeles, as pointed out numerous times, one can avoid a bar, or even a bar group, but still have an endless supply of bars. I would suggest even the most seasoned traveller or resident has not been in every bar here.

In response to recent posts on the business here. In general all bar owners will state that the tourist season did not happen this year. Probably due to the world economy. I don't want to call any bar popular, but there are a number of bars that through the years have built a steady and loyal customer following, both with locals and returning guests (who by word of mouth probably tell their friends). This means they will appear busy at any particular time, but even these bars will probably cite a fall off in business over previous years. There are also a number of new bars, that through shear wow factor, have curious guests visiting them. Overall in looking at the total strip running from Perimeter to Fields the volume of guests is way off. While the girls are moving from bar to bar in search of more guests, as a business district there is no where for them to go, so this equates to a huge number of girls eager to find customers. While these are not good times for the bars, for the customers its bargain city, girls that would have been gone within a half hour of opening are still on the stage late into the night. Bars that never offerred discounts of any significance are running extended happy hours, special shows and unique promotions. If one's schedule permits, this is an excellent time to visit Angeles.

For no particular reason, I will post my opinion on this issue, even though it happened several months ago.

First, in looking at the source material both on and off this board, there is absolutly no question that dollhouse staff beat up a Swedish guy and put him in a coma. This is a fact.

Obviously, staff don't go around doing this on a regular basis. This is very rare, as it is as lose-lose situation for everyone one involved. Having been to hundreds and hundreds of bars all around the world (mostly in the Philippines, partcularly Angeles), such things never happen if you stay calm. If you are the type that cannot stay calm, then stay out of bars.

If you are in a situation where you are being ripped off, stay calm and work it out. If things absolutely cannot be worked out, just ask for the manager and politely inform him that you would like to call the police (just call 911, like in the USA) and have them help settle the bill. Make it clear that you are happy to pay if the police agree that you owe the amount. 99. 9% of the time, they will tell you that you win, and just leave. Nobody will ever beat you up if you remain calm, and no bar wants to have uniformed police walk in.

Only once was I ever involved in a bar fight, and it was in China. And to be sure I WAS ANYTHING BUT CALM. If I was, I am quite sure that a fight would not have ensued. But I was in a closed VIP room and they refused to call the police. Fortunately, in that situation, the bouncer was far more concerned about hurting a foreigner that I was about hurting him, so even though he twice my size, he was hurt while trying to subdue me.

As far as boycotting Dollhouse, sure, I hate that bar anyway. But I also happen to love Crystal Palace, which has the same owner. Each manager runs their respective bars differently, who can blame the bar anyway if they happend to hire some nut who beats people up. You can be sure he will be fired anyway.

A couple of months ago I was involved in a very bad situation with a girl from a bar. But she no longer works in the bar, and I have had an excellent barfine from a girl from the same bar since then. There are several ways to get revenge on bar if you want to (slashing seats with a small pocket knife is one of my favorite methods, and it also works well with crooked taxi drivers), but with most such methods, for your own safey, you can never return to the bar.

I made a friend when I was in Pattaya, Thailand from India. He is an enginer speaks perfect English and has a brother who is a doctor in the US who he visits. My friend was refused entry into some of the bars in Pattaya because he was Indian. If he went with me he had no problem.(I am American). Also some of the Thai girls did not want to go with him again because of race. My question will this happen in Angels City, Philippines?

[QUOTE=Love Seeker]I made a friend when I was in Pattaya, Thailand from India. He is an enginer speaks perfect English and has a brother who is a doctor in the US who he visits. My friend was refused entry into some of the bars in Pattaya because he was Indian. If he went with me he had no problem.(I am American). Also some of the Thai girls did not want to go with him again because of race. My question will this happen in Angels City, Philippines?[/QUOTE]If he does not smell life onion or garlic, he probably wont have any problem.

[QUOTE=Love Seeker]I made a friend when I was in Pattaya, Thailand from India. He is an enginer speaks perfect English and has a brother who is a doctor in the US who he visits. My friend was refused entry into some of the bars in Pattaya because he was Indian. If he went with me he had no problem.(I am American). Also some of the Thai girls did not want to go with him again because of race. My question will this happen in Angels City, Philippines?[/QUOTE]I had a few issues in Thailand when entering the bar also. The guy at the door would ask me where I am from because I look like a local Thai. But, I'm Filipino/American. I just tell them I'm from America and they let me in. I also had a few issues in Cebu Philippines. One of the gogo bars did not allow me to BF a girl because I was filipino. I walked in there by myself and I guess they were cautious of me because they thought I was some undercover cop.

[QUOTE=Robbaf]I am also here right now and I don't think it is deserted. I walked in four bars in a row last night at 10 pm and I couldn't get a table. A few bar were not too busy, but then come back in a hour and things change.

Robb[/QUOTE]
Agree, not deserted. Hot girls still being grabbed early.

From another forum I heard that here and then there are still some SOB parties in Angeles on the way, but there was no indication how to find them.

Does any user of this forum know something more?