General Info

[QUOTE=WhatsUrName;1269484]"What your name? Where you from?"[/QUOTE]Sorry to barge in. What you are forgetting is, that, Filipinos go around in banana boats, but, you don't forget that they built the boat so you are only along for a ride.

So regardless of the law, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, it is all against you.

Like guys who went to buy the blue pill and caught up in a raid, and were accused of being the supplier. Evidence be damned.

And guys who went to 'source' girls for their own consumption, not realising it was a trap and then they were accused of being the supplier. Not buyer.

Same goes for guys who are trying to buy narcotics and more.

And in Philippines law, anything can be trafficking. Showing off, and throwing money to make yourself as a mark would mean. You can become anybody the natives want. Including human trafficker.

With a vague law, they have even arrested bar owners under the said law, though the girls were not even under the employ of the bar, per se.

Welcome to Philippines. Fly low, and fly under the radar.

Apparently I've had very good luck my last three or four trips. As for check in, it may depend on the airline. I've walked into the terminal and been horrified at the long lines. Quite a relief when stepped into a much shorter line for my particular flight / airline.

What destination / airline do you usually use Noddy? I'm usually flying in Asia, and using Asian / Japanese airlines.

Sorry for not RTFF, but I haven't seen the original post. X.

[QUOTE=Noddy;1269738]Sabalo, It's not the vehicle traffic to be concerned about. Check-in can, and has taken me longer on almost every occasion. Generally, give 4 hours from hotel to boarding your flight.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=WhatsUrName; 1269484]Hi All,

I have a question about the "[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url]" laws in the Philippines. This entire conversation assumes we are talking about women over the age of 18. I wanted to post the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] laws for your review:

[url]http://www.chanrobles.com/republicactno9208.html[/url]

For the record, I am personally safe and sound in the US, and not currently in trouble with Filipino law. I want to educate myself and my fellow hobbyists on this board about the relevant laws of the Philipppines. I realize that you guys are not Filipino lawyers. Neither am I. However, we are mostly business persons and we do now how to read the law and share viewpoints in the spirit of keeping our brothers out of trouble.

My question is: How do I conduct my affairs with regard to ADULT filipinas and prostitution so as to minimize my criminal liablity with respect to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] laws? If I am simply a "John" (end user of an act of prostitution) at MBC, Edsa Entertainment Complex, P. Burgos, or of the other hundreds of bars in areas outside of Manila, I think I am pretty much OK, even though the law does call for a maximum fine of 2 million pesos. However, if I in am Frenzy3's situation, do the same laws apply? I will humbly admit that I do not know the details of Frenzy3's "arrangement", but I am concerned if Section 5 (a) applies (which carries a minimum mandatory sentence of 15 years in prison). What if I fly a girl in from the provinces to spend time with me in Manila, is that trafficking?

I have asked qualified people who work in Law Enforcement and criminal defense in the Philippines on this matter, and the responses that I have received thus far is that the dividing line is whether or not you are trying to make money exploiting Filipinas. If you are simply the end user of an act of prostitution, then this is a lesser crime. However, if you are trying to make money from sex acts of a filipina, you are opening up a whole new world of stiffer criminal sanctions, some of which have minimum mandatory life prison sentences. There was a Swede who received a life sentence last year in CDO for engaging in a webcam syndicate. The law does inded require a life sentence. Section 10 (see) says "Shall receive a life sentence", not "may receive a life sentence". The difference between "Shall" and "may" is a very big difference.

Please keep in mind what my question is and IS NOT. I am NOT asking what I should do if I get hassled by a crooked cop on the way back from MBC with a girl in tow. I am asking specifically about the "[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] laws" vs a normal action of prostitution.

Here is how Filipono law defines Trafficking:

(a) Trafficking in Persons. Refers to the recruitment, transportation, transfer or harboring, or receipt of persons with or without the victim's consent or knowledge, within or across national borders by means of threat or use of force, or other forms of coercion, abduction, fraud, deception, abuse of power or of position, taking advantage of the vulnerability of the person, or, the giving or receiving of payments or benefits to achieve the consent of a person having control over another person for the purpose of exploitation which includes at a minimum, the exploitation or the prostitution of others or other forms of sexual exploitation, forced labor or services, slavery, servitude or the removal or sale of organs.

Thank you,

Signed,

"What your name? Where you from?"[/QUOTE]This guy has LE stamped on his forehead. I would strongly suggest guys steer well away.

[quote=sabalo; 1269678]i'm leaving for manila in a weeks time-i'm staying 3 nightsatnew world then flying to cebu on friday. i know the traffic is brutal in manila and was wondering what flight departure time would be best to avoid long traffic delays. i'm a regular in latin america and this will be my first time going to asia-just want to try something different. pm me if you like.

thanks guys[/quote]sabalo,

the manila-cebu (or vice-versa) domestic route is the busiest in the philippines. expect long check-in lines with plenty of passengers. get to the airport 2hrs before your flight and be prepared to wait. the manila-cebu flights that seem to be more popular are the flights early morning and mid-day. i would book a flight late morning, around 11am would be perfect. that means you avoid most of the morning manila rush-hour traffic and you get to enjoy your hotel breakfast without rushing and arrive in cebu early in the afternoon.

i think xman's comments are spot on. sometimes there are long lines at naia, sometimes almost empty. same as manila traffic, sometimes its a nightmare, other times it moves at various rates of speed but atleast you feel like the taxi is making progress. ymmv.

This is almost certainly not the best place to post this report from the most recent Durex Survey of sex behaviour.

" A similar Durex survey released last year also showed a decline in sexual activity in China. Thirty-nine percent of respondents said they were sexually inactive, a 15-percentage point increase from 2006.

The problem is worse for heterosexual women than for men in Hong Kong due to cultural issues tied to status and wealth, and social expectations about the role of women, said Dr Petula Ho, a sexologist from the University of Hong Kong.

Making matters worse for women, they vastly outnumber men in Hong Kong. There is less than one man for every 1. 2 women between the ages of 20 and 39, according to official figures from last year.

"Straight women in Hong Kong are in poverty in terms of sex. They have few sexual possibilities and options. Even if you're a male truck driver, you can find a woman in rural China," Ho said." So there you have it. Easy picking in Honkers.

G

[QUOTE=X Man; 1269833]Apparently I've had very good luck my last three or four trips. As for check in, it may depend on the airline. I've walked into the terminal and been horrified at the long lines. Quite a relief when stepped into a much shorter line for my particular flight / airline.

What destination / airline do you usually use Noddy? I'm usually flying in Asia, and using Asian / Japanese airlines.[/QUOTE]KLM Royal Dutch, from Europe return. Or Cebu Pacific from Bankok return. It always is a long queue, such that I always give it 4hrs. One thing I would never do, is allow too little time, missing a flight is not something I would want at any time. Had a close call once with Ryan Air return from Agadir, Morocco to London. Check-in sent me to two long seperate queues in order to pay HIDDEN COSTS. I will never fly Ryan Air again. Cheap prices but high stress levels, not worth it in the end. To add to this I would not return to Morocco either.

[QUOTE=WhatsUrName;1269484]My question is: How do I conduct my affairs with regard to ADULT filipinas and prostitution so as to minimize my criminal liablity with respect to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] laws? If I am simply a "John" (end user of an act of prostitution) at MBC, Edsa Entertainment Complex, P. Burgos, or of the other hundreds of bars in areas outside of Manila, I think I am pretty much OK, even though the law does call for a maximum fine of 2 million pesos. However, if I in am Frenzy3's situation, do the same laws apply? I will humbly admit that I do not know the details of Frenzy3's "arrangement", but I am concerned if Section 5 (a) applies (which carries a minimum mandatory sentence of 15 years in prison). What if I fly a girl in from the provinces to spend time with me in Manila, is that trafficking?[/QUOTE]Are you a 'rich' foreigner there to sex impoverished Filipinas in and out of the bars? If yes, then you can be charged with [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url]. It all depends on who you [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] off and / or how much they believe they can get out of you. If you're really unlucky like the Swedes then the prosecutor might use you to make a political statement. The wording of the law ensures that the net can be cast very broadly. If you choose to swim in those seas the possibly of ending up in some Filipino's frying pan is always a real possibility. Your status as a foreigner with the means to travel automatically puts you in a position of economic power relative to the girls you target for sex. The fact that that girl works in a bar doesn't offer automatic protection. In fact, the prosecutor can use her occupation to classify her as a vulnerable person. However, it is unlikely that they will go after you for a bar girl because the bar owners have paid off the pertinent authorities or might even be part of the political structure themselves.

Are you offering girls without bar affiliation material enticements to have sex with you and transporting them to the sex venue? That pretty much speaks for itself. If the girl and / or her family are in collusion with the local authorities to put you in a sweltering overcrowded prison cell where you shit in a bucket with an audience making an argument that you're simply an end user is not going to help you. Even if you didn't give a girl a dime, if she claims that you made fraudulent promises of marriage in order to gain sexual access to her it could even very badly for you. In the Philippines the laws on the books are interpreted and applied very differently when a foreigner is being prosecuted. It would be a mistake to assume that they offer any protection to a foreigner. What's your game?

[QUOTE=WhatsUrName;1269484]I will humbly admit that I do not know the details of Frenzy3's "arrangement", but I am concerned if Section 5 (a) applies (which carries a minimum mandatory sentence of 15 years in prison). What if I fly a girl in from the provinces to spend time with me in Manila, is that trafficking?[/QUOTE]None of my girls are from dirt poor families they come from educated and well off families, the laws are here to protect the poor, so pay the girls for sex make sure they are not desperate, if she asks for more pay and decide if you want to see her again.

I have had the police visit me a few times, so never think you are immune, they ask the girls about their families and why they live with me. I even had a ex go to the police and say I make porno films, hence you never see me post a naked photo with a girl you can I'd.

As for my arrangement I am happy so are my girls and any who I see.

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88;1269892]This guy has LE stamped on his forehead. I would strongly suggest guys steer well away.[/QUOTE]Or NGO parasite.

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger; 1269986]Are you a 'rich' foreigner there to sex impoverished Filipinas in and out of the bars? If yes, then you can be charged with [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url]. It all depends on who you [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] off and / or how much they believe they can get out of you. If you're really unlucky like the Swedes then the prosecutor might use you to make a political statement. The wording of the law ensures that the net can be cast very broadly. If you choose to swim in those seas the possibly of ending up in some Filipino's frying pan is always a real possibility. Your status as a foreigner with the means to travel automatically puts you in a position of economic power relative to the girls you target for sex. The fact that that girl works in a bar doesn't offer automatic protection. In fact, the prosecutor can use her occupation to classify her as a vulnerable person. However, it is unlikely that they will go after you for a bar girl because the bar owners have paid off the pertinent authorities or might even be part of the political structure themselves.

Are you offering girls without bar affiliation material enticements to have sex with you and transporting them to the sex venue? That pretty much speaks for itself. If the girl and / or her family are in collusion with the local authorities to put you in a sweltering overcrowded prison cell where you shit in a bucket with an audience making an argument that you're simply an end user is not going to help you. Even if you didn't give a girl a dime, if she claims that you made fraudulent promises of marriage in order to gain sexual access to her it could even very badly for you. In the Philippines the laws on the books are interpreted and applied very differently when a foreigner is being prosecuted. It would be a mistake to assume that they offer any protection to a foreigner. What's your game?[/QUOTE]Thank you CM. I knew that I could count on you for the Worst case scenario. LOL.

That is my belief as well. If LE really has it in for you, they will get you one way or another, especially if you are a rich foreigner. The law is indeed written so broadly as to catch just about anyone. That fact alone is part of the reason for my post. After reading what the law says. Should I be a little more paranoid? It seems like everything I do is covered in some part of the Trafficking laws. Is there some way to prioritize these sins in order of "ways to make yourself look good in front of a judge"?

I am not LE or a part of an NGO, but what difference does that make? You should assume that the most bloodthirsty, foreigner-hating, bible-banging do-gooder is reading and cataloging everything you write. Not only each post, but the chain of posts as well. If you publicly post that you are breaking the law 6 months ago, and then announce your travel plans, then you are openning yourself up to to trouble. Be very careful of what you confess to on these boards. I don't want to be overly paranoid, but I myself have done some pretty dumb things that in retrospect, I won't do again. Per a prior post of mine, I went to a go-go bar in CDO, and then went back to the Malberry and wrote all about it, including how much I paid, where I was and where I had been. I won't do that again. Be very, very careful, my brothers. For every person that is posting, please realize that there are 20, 30, or 40 people who are non-paying members who can read everything your write. Forever. Your habits of bashing newbies trying to make a substantive post does not help.

May I suggest that you all use the term "women" and not "girls". I hate to be technical, but it is important. I know this sounds stupid but the reality is what it is. Let's call them Bar-women for giggles.

I would agree with David_33 that, at leat on these boards, you should worry about do-gooders from NGOs more than PH LE. PH Le simply lacks the resources to pay people to sit around and surf the web. Considering the widespread Shabu epidemic in PH, they have their hands full. If it is not an internal matter, then External LE from other countries are riding their ass for information, especially the FBI for terrorism info. Its the Christians that have a team of do-gooders on standby with an abundance of time to read each and every post of yours that you should worry about.

Frenzy3, I apologize for calling you up as an example. I think a lot of guys envy your situation; I know I do. It was only after the fact that I considered the positition that I put you in. Please be careful. It doesn't matter whether if it is consentual or not.

If anyone wants to PM me privately about a legal matter, I am all ears. I am not an attorney, but I will listen and tell you what I think. This board needs someone to focus on Filipino trafficking laws, and how to keep mongers out of trouble. Maybe when I retire to Davao someday, I'll sign up for Law School and become a lawyer specializing in keeping you fuckers out of trouble. If I can fill a role here, I volunteer. I don't know much, but I am willing to specialize.

Signed,

"What your Name, where you from?"

[QUOTE=WhatsUrName; 1270061]If anyone wants to PM me privately about a legal matter, I am all ears. I am not an attorney, but I will listen and tell you what I think. This board needs someone to focus on Filipino trafficking laws, and how to keep mongers out of trouble. Maybe when I retire to Davao someday, I'll sign up for Law School and become a lawyer specializing in keeping you fuckers out of trouble. If I can fill a role here, I volunteer. I don't know much, but I am willing to specialize.

Signed,

"What your Name, where you from?"[/QUOTE]I beg to differ. Nobody can save anybody, when you are a target. And have seen enough like that. If not for the pretty and sweet people of Philippines, it would have gone off the radar a long time ago. Well, I have a lot of native friends, who would take a bullet for me, but, they also know that there is a point where jungle laws take precedence.

And, well, become a lawyer? I know it sounds rude, but, in Philippines, don't' try to do anything, if you want to protect your hide. Even if you are a do-gooder, some other self-declared local do-gooder will feel threatened and may bump you off. No kidding. Including volunteering. As a good friend learnt the hard way. When a local strong man felt the volunteer was stepping over his patch. Play safe, fly low. To live and have fun.

Never been to the Phillipines but will spend next week in Manila at the Crowne Plaza. Considering that the next week is the May Day holiday in both PI and Singapore, where I'm based, I'm considering taking Minday off and turning it into a long weekend. Two mates are considering joining. I'm thinking about Davao vs. Angeles vs. Cebu. I've read lots of good stuff about Davao from GE and others, but my mates are into beer bars and pool halls. Any input?

Taking into account the recent discussion, how long should I plan to take from the Crowne Plaza to the airport/flight on a Friday?

"What your Name, where you from?, this seems to follow the Furryfriend paranoiac scam postings. I would like to know about anyone who has gotten in trouble due to these laws. One only reads about foreigners like the Swedes or the guy who was filming the girls doing cat fights. That is to say; high profile uncommon activities. So why start looking for problems where they don't exist. I would venture to say that if these laws were enforced 95% of Philippine men would be behind bars.

[QUOTE=Pita123; 1270094]Never been to the Phillipines but will spend next week in Manila at the Crowne Plaza. Considering that the next week is the May Day holiday in both PI and Singapore, where I'm based, I'm considering taking Minday off and turning it into a long weekend. Two mates are considering joining. I'm thinking about Davao vs. Angeles vs. Cebu. I've read lots of good stuff about Davao from GE and others, but my mates are into beer bars and pool halls. Any input?

Taking into account the recent discussion, how long should I plan to take from the Crowne Plaza to the airport / flight on a Friday?[/QUOTE]I live near Crowne Plaza. I always allow 3 hours from home to airport at ANY time. Fridays after around 1 pm get very busy. You need a minimum of 3 hours. 4 would be secure.

[QUOTE=David_33;1270110]"What your Name, where you from?, this seems to follow the Furryfriend paranoiac scam postings. I would like to know about anyone who has gotten in trouble due to these laws. One only reads about foreigners like the Swedes or the guy who was filming the girls doing cat fights. That is to say; high profile uncommon activities. So why start looking for problems where they don't exist. I would venture to say that if these laws were enforced 95% of Philippine men would be behind bars.[/QUOTE]David_33, I am simply trying to contribute to the boards in a meaningful way. If you do not like my post, then please put me on your ignore list.

Good luck with everything.