German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

Based on media reports and what's in our thread here on artemis can anyone give me an honest evaluation if artemis really faces imminent closure. Reports here have seen members attending as usual but media coverage is being interpreted as showing permanent closure? I'm booked for frankfurt for June but Berlin just lost. also some members here are convinced artemis is finished with quotes such as goodnite artemis and so on. i hope this is melodrama. thanks sv.

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/oh-no-my-fave-german-fkk-artemis-been-raided-5346236.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36043834 (please copy and paste links)

[QUOTE=StarletVoyager;1865640]Based on media reports and what's in our thread here on artemis can anyone give me an honest evaluation if artemis really faces imminent closure. Reports here have seen members attending as usual but media coverage is being interpreted as showing permanent closure? I'm booked for frankfurt for June but Berlin just lost. also some members here are convinced artemis is finished with quotes such as goodnite artemis and so on. thanks sv

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/oh-no-my-fave-german-fkk-artemis-been-raided-5346236.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36043834 (please copy and paste links)[/QUOTE]Artemis is open day after the raid, so that is hopeful thing, but 23 million the owner owe now to German fed will be hard to pay, so there maybe owner change. The raid was mainly after tax fraud of the owner and also to send message to other German FKK clubs across the nation.

I would give one month to see what will be LU of Artemis though. Some girls might stay away as working in FKK is secret to their family and police raid definitely do not give girls extra comfort on privacy.

On the different note, can please someone tell me where to get not criminalize green herbs in Frankfurt area? Private message me because without it my orgasm is not enough help me cum harder in Frankfurt.

Girls being self employed in Artemis or not? They really are and if police argue that setting house rule on girls about prices, work hours etc. Are contract. I think police are over stretching the definition of law.

Girls there are also guest like us who pay more and follow house rule and we also are there and we men also follow the house rule.

From what I gather, according to German law, it is not criminal for prostitutes to be employed by the club, but exploitation of them is criminal. Under German Criminal Code Section 181 a states that "whoever exploits another person who engages in prositution; or for a material benefit supervises another person's engagement in prostituion, determines the place, time, extent or other circumstances of the engagement in prostituion; or takes measures to prevent the person from giving up prostitution, is committing a crime. ".

Not paid social security for girls that didn't pay entry I understand for whatever evidence the authorities have for that. It has been stated that Hell's provides the girls to the club for exemption of entry fees. And the articles ties that with not paying social security. Those that were arrest were probably suspected of the knowledge of such things going on.

Under the code I've mentioned above, it clearly says it's exploitation if another person determines the place, time, extent is exploitation, an therefore criminal under the code. So, dictating hours for girls as independent workers or not, would still be exploitation.

So, I understand if the club is suspected of girls working for the club being employees of the club, but at the same time paying for entry automatically guarantee not being tied to being an employee?

What I think is issue at hand is probably accountability. Some girls probably weren't accounted for when it comes to taxes, and therefore the authorities state that there were girls that weren't accounted for, for the social security purposes even if they would technically be considered legit workers. Within those girls not accounted for, there could be also trafficked girls. How is traffic'd girls defined under German law?

There is a gray area in how the club operates and the law of De as it's written.

As been stated, we'd have to see what evidence they bring up in court. The bust was to gather evidence I take it.

PL / Mr Ho: You should either try to get more insight into German labor law or stop speculating. Neither of your posts makes any sense.

HB.

[QUOTE=HessenBub;1866452]PL / Mr Ho: You should either try to get more insight into German labor law or stop speculating. Neither of your posts makes any sense.

HB.[/QUOTE]No, I am against labor law in general, it made people lazy and not willing to generate profit on their own.

[QUOTE=HessenBub;1866452]PL / Mr Ho: You should either try to get more insight into German labor law or stop speculating. Neither of your posts makes any sense.

HB.[/QUOTE]Nobody is claiming expert on German law, just trying to make sense of what the articles are laying out. They accuse the club of employing girls that are not self-employed, and the articles have stated the sum in social security tax that are due.

Can you explain to us what they mean by social security tax not paid? What constitutes as self employed by the tax authorities specifically at Artemis?

Can you tell us on how the clubs are generally run in clubs in terms of pricing, standards in service, and how that ties in with self employment status with girls according to German law?

Calling out speculations of one thing, but explaining why certain points are not plausible is another. Perhaps you can tell us something more sensible according to German labor laws that you are familiar with?

[QUOTE=PussyLiccker;1866502]Nobody is claiming expert on German law, just trying to make sense of what the articles are laying out. They accuse the club of employing girls that are not self-employed, and the articles have stated the sum in social security tax that are due.

Can you explain to us what they mean by social security tax not paid? What constitutes as self employed by the tax authorities specifically at Artemis?

Can you tell us on how the clubs are generally run in clubs in terms of pricing, standards in service, and how that ties in with self employment status with girls according to German law?

Calling out speculations of one thing, but explaining why certain points are not plausible is another. Perhaps you can tell us something more sensible according to German labor laws that you are familiar with?[/QUOTE]Exactly. I mean we all know that girls are all independent in the club, just following house rule like we do. As for house rule even restaurant, cafe and strip clubs have that we have to follow.

If police are saying setting time to work etc is linked to employment. Come on, they are really pushing boundary of law. If this is allowed they can just arrest anyone for anything almost.

As for girls having pimps or lover boy, that is their business and club did not enforce them to have pimps etc and we know this.

Tax is private matter, so we do not know if owner paid tax or not.

Maybe, police wanted to crack HA for years, so along the way they saw tax fraud case and decided to go for both as joint investigation to make big head line. This also act as good message to all FKK that no pimped girls are allowed in the club and also alarm HA for their pimping operation.

Either way, I never heard girls treated in evil manner in Artemis like some media are reporting. , I mean some media are reporting Artemis as some evil gang related working girl house that exploit women. I mean this is pure lie. !

And to be honest, Artemis is one of the best managed, clean FKK I have been in Germany.

PL: There's plenty of newspaper articles on various websites, including videos from the authorities stating why the raid took place. They are in German. And on the Artemis thread some folks explained what the issues are at Artemis and within the model of self employment.

Mr. Ho: Labor laws in Germany are existing, they can't be ignored. This far productivity in Germany is on a level that most other countries would wish for. I'm not a friend of overregulation but labor laws in Germany are ok.

HB.

[QUOTE=MrHo;1866477]No, I am against labor law in general, it made people lazy and not willing to generate profit on their own.[/QUOTE]Evidence? I think our personal political views aren't really relevant to the forum.

[QUOTE=Optimist;1866699]Evidence? I think our personal political views aren't really relevant to the forum.[/QUOTE]Then do not ask LOL Well since you asked.

Secure income given by company make people lazy and complain even though they do not have ability for themselves to make money. Working for money is till 20th century, in 21st century you should be smart enough to let the money work itself to generate profit.

[QUOTE=MrHo;1866945]Then do not ask LOL Well since you asked.

Secure income given by company make people lazy and complain even though they do not have ability for themselves to make money. Working for money is till 20th century, in 21st century you should be smart enough to let the money work itself to generate profit.[/QUOTE]You mean the labor unions? Demand higher wages even though the company is on the verge of bankruptcy, LOL.

I guess you mean stock speculation by letting the money work. Compared to being a worker you got so much more freedom but yr success is depending upon yr strategy in beating the market.

It gives motivation to work hard I. E. Beat the market to fund yr visits to FKK land, haha.

[QUOTE=Exodus8;1867042]You mean the labor unions? Demand higher wages even though the company is on the verge of bankruptcy, LOL.

I guess you mean stock speculation by letting the money work. Compared to being a worker you got so much more freedom but yr success is depending upon yr strategy in beating the market.

It givesu motivation to work hard I. E. Beat the market to fund yr visits to FKK land, haha.[/QUOTE]In a way, FKK is speculation as well because you meet a girl and you have to speculate her performances Also you have to beat the light magic of main bar area LOL.

Yeah I love gourmet, cars and fine clothes, but big chunk of my spending are in area of prostitute LOL FKK is major part of it LOL I plan to die with good memories and so far I am doing good, let see how this new prostitution law passes and how it affect German FKK.

It is uncertain what happen to heaven called Artemis is somehow related to the law trying to pass. , but it certainly gave me a heartbeat LOL I was like what!

How did bunch of tattooed up guy who franchised originally American biker gang managed to get so big and gained influence in rather advanced country Germany?

[QUOTE=MrHo;1867104]How did bunch of tattooed up guy who franchised originally American biker gang managed to get so big and gained influence in rather advanced country Germany?[/QUOTE]They changed their name to Goldman Sachs.