FKK Artemis - Berlin

[QUOTE=Alezis;1522521]I was kind of nervous and freaked out but I stil went inside first impression was that the place looks good but the older woman in the reception was really unpleasant and arrogant. Anyway I paid and was confused where to go. I even thought of leaving the place because I did feel al lost.[/QUOTE]Alezis, thanks for telling your story. As a relative newbie to the scene I can empathise with some of the problems you encountered on your visit. Sometimes those of us lucky to have visited FKKs on a few occasions forget how thrilling and yet daunting it can be to enter an FKK for the first time and all your pre-conceived notions and plans disappear. I know I felt completely out of my depth when I first visited and fell into some of the same traps you found yourself in. I thought I would be easily able to identify some of the girls with good reports that I read here but of course it is easier said than done when you are surrounded by loads of hot girls tempting you to part with your cash.

The one big tip I would give to those thinking of going to any FKK is to try and hold out and not take the first temptress for a session. By simply saying "maybe later" you send out the signal to the sharks that you are not an easy catch, even if you think you have a newbie sticker on your head. I'm surprised you found the reception to be unpleasant, they always ask me if it is my first time and if I know where to go etc.

What the biggest differences between Artemis and the ffk in Frankfurt (oase and Palace. Mainhattan is a bit smaller I guess)

[QUOTE=Alezis;1522521]Well guys I arrived to Artemis around 13:00 it was not so crowded but there was plenty of girls avaible.[/QUOTE]I don't believe any of this. It's a wind-up.

[QUOTE=Alezis; 1522521]Well guys I arrived to Artemis around 13:00 it was not so crowded but there was plenty of girls avaible.

So this was my first visit to Artemis. And I think sadly my last one.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the report. Not easy to write when things don't work out well.

I too find it's difficult in places like Artemis and Palace to relax between sessions. I only visit Europe in summer, when at least at Artemis you can escape to the outdoor pool area where you don't get the relentless hustling.

[QUOTE=London Traveller;1523162]I don't believe any of this. It's a wind-up.[/QUOTE]And why would I wind it up? What would I gain in talking BS? Absolutely nothing and if you don't believe don't believe. It's up to each all to make their conclusion. I just told my story about it.

[QUOTE=ShoesAndSocks; 1523163]Thanks for the report. Not easy to write when things don't work out well.

I too find it's difficult in places like Artemis and Palace to relax between sessions. I only visit Europe in summer, when at least at Artemis you can escape to the outdoor pool area where you don't get the relentless hustling.[/QUOTE]Thank you, I said I would report and I did I only said my side of the story like I said before it may not be artemis fault it was my own fault things happened like It did. Better luck next time I hope.

Interesting report Alezis. I would say you had a newbie experience. I would not hold it against Art. If you go to any big clubs, you will get similar treatment more or less. I think the girls smelled a newbie, and once they do, they will do what they can to take advantage of that. These are working girls you are dealing with, you need to learn to deal with the pros or find a service oriented club.

I am sorry to hear about bad experience, but in away, those girls who act in such a way are the ones you do not really want to goto the room with. Most likely they will up sell or give you lousy service in the room.

Therefore, maybe you can take it as: you are glad you did not accept their offer and went up to room with them.

I do not have some girls shouting at me in such a rude manner in Artemis, but there were few girls who react rather negatively when I refuse their offer to go to the rooms.

I often get "you always say you are tired or later".

But I never really care much because in the end, I am client there and girls are kind of operating their private business there. They pay for the entry fee that is more expensive than we pay and they have to make sure they earn way over their entry fee, so it is worth for them to be there at fkk doing rather hard job of providing sex to strangers, so I kind of understand why some girls react negatively when their business at fkk are not going so well and they keep on getting refusal from possible clients. Some girls are nice, some are not.

However, most girls at Artemis are very nice especially once you get to know them. I care about good apples and always ignore the bad apples.

Plus I always only go 60euro with new girls and if she is good, I will go more next time or I just extend session, sampling is wise thing to do at any fkk.

Personally I love Artemis and I am pretty hooked to the place.

[QUOTE=Alezis; 1522521]Well guys I arrived to Artemis around 13:00 it was not so crowded but there was plenty of girls avaible.

I was kind of nervous and freaked out but I stil went inside first impression was that the place looks good but the older woman in the reception was really unpleasant and arrogant. Anyway I paid and was confused where to go. I even thought of leaving the place because I did feel al lost.

Anyway I took my shower and locked up my Shit. Went out for looking around and immediately two girls catches me and we started to talk, I told them I just arrived and want to look around but they insisted and wanted me to take them.

So like I said I was nervous and al freaked out and stupid as I am I agreed to follow them. I mean I had just arrived had been there for 5 minutes so it was not so smart by me. And it was my fantasy to have an threesome but I wanted to leave it to the last. Anyway we went up with this two beautiful girls. I don't remember their names sorry.

We agreed to 160 EUR for each of the girls. That included Lesbian and titjob with Cum on Tits. We started to Fucking and playing around and I told the girls don't put the condom on me before I get hard so keep playing but the girls did so anyway. After 10 minutes one of them told me to but My dick between her boobs and I did so and I did Cum after a wile. The sex was good and the girls was looking beautiful BUT they acted to fast it felt like they just wanted me to finish up so we could go out.

I normally last 1-2 hours with the sex if I want but this time Shit did not know what happened I was all stressed out and freaked out.

Later on the two girls showed me around and we talked a bit. I took an shower and left down where the sauna is. I tried to rest a bit but the girls was on me and telling me to come up take them in, that I am young that I should not rest etc etc.

This made me very angry because I told the girls nicely and with respect I was just in an need to relax a bit and that the day is long enough for all the girls. But stil the same one after another they was on me.

So I went to the locker room and sat there for an hour because I needed to rest a bit. How sad isn't that?

I left later on to the bar area on the same floor as the lockers. And again the girls just started atacking. And I said to them all again I'm not ready right now and would like to rest a bit, I told them kindly. But nopps one after another they came on. Then one girl approached me and we talked a bit and I did not feel she was my taste so when she asked if I want to go up I said no thank you. So she left away.

Then after 2 minutes the first girls I took when I arrived came to me and we talked for 20 minutes I wanted to take them in again, I had it already on my mind because I did not feel finished with them.

So when we was going to the rooms I passed some of the girls I had told no thank you to and then one of the girls that was sitting down said "let's see if you are a man or not" and I said oh well I am a man I promise you" then another girl screams out angry and said we don't care if you are a man or not we only care if you have money"

This comment Fucking killed my day I don't know why but it did I had not even done something wrong to anybody or said something disrespectful. Anyway I went upstairs with the two girls we went in to the room and my mood was al gone we agreed for 1 hour session with everything included anal message lesbian Cum on Tits etc etc. When I was finished and paid 520 euro for both off them. I just wanted to leave the place. Left for shower and took an taxi to the airport I took an early flight back home.

So this was my first visit to Artemis. And I think sadly my last one.[/QUOTE]Hello Alezis.

The girls may have killed your dreams, but learn from these rookie mistakes. When you formulate a new game plan, give Artemis a second try. Time was definitely an enemy of yours. When you can budget a full day, then go back. Spend time to interview all the girls that approach you. Don't be afraid to tell them no. If they come back again, keep turning them away until you find the girls that you like. You have the cash, and cash is KING! All things considered, you did get a threesome and some anal action. That ain't half bad for a first crack at this. Next time, interview solo girls. Select the one that you like, and tell her you want to choose the second girl for a threesome. Make her wait on the couch with you. Do not be afraid to dictate the pace and the choice of action. Tell them that only if you like them, you will extend the session. Remember, CASH IS KING! I am sure that when you have time to replay everything in your head, you will realize that the money you spent here was far better than the money you blew on strippers who did not deliver anything but a cock tease. Did you ever watch Top Gun? When Maverick was afraid to go back up and fly, Viper told him that he will fly with him. That is what you need, somebody at your side to give you flying advise.

FiddyCent

Hey man, I've read your experience, and felt pity for you. I must say in Chinese: What a 'TuHao' you are! Which means you are rich but not smart!

I have stayed there in 2 days, and had 6 sessions. Not too much, but quite enjoyed.

Artemis is not a places for fast food sex, it is a place for a whole day relax. Here you can see all kinds of girls naked, which was only in my dream before!

Since you guy are rich, you must have confidence, do not be shy, just say no if you don't like the girls. Donot care how they judge you, you are the king of Artemis.

My suggestion is to be polite to talk any girls you want. If the girl approached to you is not you like, just say no thank you directly. If the girl seems aggressive, donot be angry just leave her away, donot try to quarrel with her, as we are looking for fun there, keep good mood. To my experience, more than half girls are not bad. That's enough, isn't it?

If you feel boring in the lounge, come to cinema, sit down and watch, girls will one by one come to you. Choose the one you like have blow job in cinema. Good place to try. Excited!

Also try to communicate with other guests, many of them are funny and easygoing. Unlucky I have not met guys from my country, but I have good talk with others.

The food is not so bad, try it!

The best is that when you feel boring just leave and keep your keys in reception, you can come back for no pay again! Good rule for me!

Anyway I enjoyed a lot in two days and will come again!

[QUOTE=Alezis; 1522521]Well guys I arrived to Artemis around 13:00 it was not so crowded but there was plenty of girls avaible.

I was kind of nervous and freaked out but I stil went inside first impression was that the place looks good but the older woman in the reception was really unpleasant and arrogant. Anyway I paid and was confused where to go. I even thought of leaving the place because I did feel al lost.

Anyway I took my shower and locked up my Shit. Went out for looking around and immediately two girls catches me and we started to talk, I told them I just arrived and want to look around but they insisted and wanted me to take them.

So like I said I was nervous and al freaked out and stupid as I am I agreed to follow them. I mean I had just arrived had been there for 5 minutes so it was not so smart by me. And it was my fantasy to have an threesome but I wanted to leave it to the last. Anyway we went up with this two beautiful girls. I don't remember their names sorry.

We agreed to 160 EUR for each of the girls. That included Lesbian and titjob with Cum on Tits. We started to Fucking and playing around and I told the girls don't put the condom on me before I get hard so keep playing but the girls did so anyway. After 10 minutes one of them told me to but My dick between her boobs and I did so and I did Cum after a wile. The sex was good and the girls was looking beautiful BUT they acted to fast it felt like they just wanted me to finish up so we could go out.

I normally last 1-2 hours with the sex if I want but this time Shit did not know what happened I was all stressed out and freaked out.

Later on the two girls showed me around and we talked a bit. I took an shower and left down where the sauna is. I tried to rest a bit but the girls was on me and telling me to come up take them in, that I am young that I should not rest etc etc.

This made me very angry because I told the girls nicely and with respect I was just in an need to relax a bit and that the day is long enough for all the girls. But stil the same one after another they was on me.

So I went to the locker room and sat there for an hour because I needed to rest a bit. How sad isn't that?

I left later on to the bar area on the same floor as the lockers. And again the girls just started atacking. And I said to them all again I'm not ready right now and would like to rest a bit, I told them kindly. But nopps one after another they came on. Then one girl approached me and we talked a bit and I did not feel she was my taste so when she asked if I want to go up I said no thank you. So she left away.

Then after 2 minutes the first girls I took when I arrived came to me and we talked for 20 minutes I wanted to take them in again, I had it already on my mind because I did not feel finished with them.

So when we was going to the rooms I passed some of the girls I had told no thank you to and then one of the girls that was sitting down said "let's see if you are a man or not" and I said oh well I am a man I promise you" then another girl screams out angry and said we don't care if you are a man or not we only care if you have money"

This comment Fucking killed my day I don't know why but it did I had not even done something wrong to anybody or said something disrespectful. Anyway I went upstairs with the two girls we went in to the room and my mood was al gone we agreed for 1 hour session with everything included anal message lesbian Cum on Tits etc etc. When I was finished and paid 520 euro for both off them. I just wanted to leave the place. Left for shower and took an taxi to the airport I took an early flight back home.

So this was my first visit to Artemis. And I think sadly my last one.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Alezis;1522521]So this was my first visit to Artemis. And I think sadly my last one.[/QUOTE]Next time you will take your time and observe the other guys and how they handle the women. You will make a commitment to yourself that you absolutely won't session with a girl in your first hour there. Instead, you'll take a tour of the place. You'll order a drink and just hang out awhile and observe. You will say no to the first dozen girls that approach you. Then, after your first hour there, you can approach your favorite girls on your terms. Next time you won't go with any girls that give you a bad vibe. Next time you'll go to Oase or Sharks or one of the other big clubs. And maybe next time you will only do one or two of these things but at least you'll have some experience behind you and you will be better prepared.

By the way, if any of the girls ever question your manhood again, don't argue with them. Just smile and laugh and say something witty or self-deprecating back to them. You're got plenty of time now to think up witty responses now before your next trip. Even if you're not having fun at that particular moment, act "as if" and don't let them see that they got to you. Some of them are playing their games. That doesn't mean you can't play your games right back. If a girl is going to be rude to you, she is actually doing you a favor by letting you know that she's a "shark" and that she's someone who you really don't want to take to the room. So, when a girl is rude to you, just be thankful that she just saved you from wasting 50 Euros.

And please read a lot more of the FKK forum threads before your next trip. A lot more.

Was there for a good 7 hours, and yeah, lotsa aggressive girls. Apparently there was a Messe but no business at the club, so a lot of frustration in the air. Fighting off the sharks and simply frustrated girls all day was exhausting and wound up driving me away. I, too, spent some "alone time" in the locker room since otherwise there was just no getting away from them for some peace. One who'd been dogging me all day ("Paulina"? Part Spanish) even yelled "I hate you" at me at one point. I just laughed-after all, I'd been saying no to her for 3-4 hours, not my fault if you can't take a fucking hint.

On the plus side, some did know what "no" means, and we killed time talking while the place was dead. Kiki (black, Dominican) and Honey (German, straight black hair) for example. FYI, based on forum descriptions, I also saw Marketa, Avril, Carrie, Alicia, and the Mila Kunis lookalike last night, so they're in town. I know they're popular topics here.

Went with Johannen for an hour: small, olive skin, ponytail, see-cup natural. Didn't ask age. Half cossack half lithuanian. Keeps to herself but gorgeous smile if you approach her. Very friendly, responsive, and like all the girls appreciates respect. Told me this was her first week in the place. Highly recommended.

I know the twosome Alezis mentioned. I went with one of them, Isabelle, Moldavian. Short. Fake blonde. Silicone be-cup. Her abs caught me off guard as when I touched them they were solid muscle-this girl works out. Obviously all-business as her first word to me was "upstairs"? At that point, I wasn't interested in small talk anyway. Kept trying to upsell threesome and prostate, but gave up before it killed the mood. She was hot enough for an enjoyable half hour, but annoying enough for me to want to get out fairly quickly, which probably worked for her, too. If it helps any, I got my revenge-she pulled away during CIM and got a bunch in her face, so put it back in her mouth because, as she put it, better that than in her hair. A good sport about it though. Even so, I was a little pissed that she demanded a tip because she's so awesome, though I told her I didn't blame her for trying. If they know that you know that it's business, it goes smoother. Still kept trying to sell me a threesome throughout the night.

From a previous visit, I can also recommend Ketarina. 26, BUL. A-cup, slim, dark hair. An hour. Not a lot of chemistry, but professional and goofy in a way that's endearing. Spent a lot of that hour giggling-maybe not the best way to use my $, but no regrets.

I've been to the Art a few times, so got used to the sharking. I usually don't with any girl who approaches me and tries to sell straight away. Try to have 3 good sessions in a day. Got there Thursday about 14:00 and it was fairly empty. The place filled up graduallyy and by 21:00 it was like girl heaven. At least twice as many women as men maybe more. I was swatting them away all the time. A few more men came about 22:00 onwards so it got more to like 1:1 after that and then I had my final session and left.

Zoe from Germany, a red head and a bit older, but I only noticed this when I got close up. She approached me, and I liked the idea of a redhead so I went with her. Big mistake. Started all right, but then got a bit soft for a minute. This is not a problem. Even porn stars lose wood for a minute or two sometimes and then get it back up. But she starts going He's asleep, Your're getting smaller, What's happenning, You can't do it like this, What are we going to do now, blah blah. Not like a good girl who can excite me again. This was a total turn off, and she got a bad attitude. So I just said you're really bad, I'm ending this, I'll give you your money and then you can go. She seemed to get pissed off, so I just walked out, and she followed to the money place. Shame. Thought she would be good, but she turned out bad. So I still need a woman!

Spotted another juicy redhead called Ambra from Moldova. I went to talk to her to see what she was like. She said straight away you want to go upstairs. I said no I just want to talk for a bit, so she says well you want to talk it's 60 euros.you just want to talk, go a find find another girl. What a stinking attitude. But that's how I test to see whether they're going to be worth it or not. Definitely a no there, and saved myself from a bad experience. Pity though. She looked hot.

Jade from Germany. Her hair is died pink and she has big fake boobs. I don't normally go anywhere neaar faake boobs or fake tan, but I talked to her the last time I was here and she was pretty friendly, and I thought well why not try her, and actually had a good session with her. Very nice. A bit of kissing but no DATY, but on the whole very good. I was pounding her for a long time. Then she starts saying come on baby, come. Think she had had enough, but I was having a good time so I kept on a few more minutes. She was very nice girl but she doesn't do everything I want so I won't go back, but she was worth a shot.

Debbie from Germany. Lovely cute girl, only about 5 foot with long full mousy blonde hair, and very sweet and hot. Chatted for a while on the sofa before I decided to go to the room with her, and I was happy I did. She does everything I like. Lots of DFK, DATY great BJ and great session all round. I think she was enjoying herself too, so I will try her again at some point.

A few hours after dinner I was ready for my final session of the day. Approached by a very tall brunette German called Janine or something like that, she was with a friend called Jill. Although she approached me, or rather just started talking as I passed, she seemed very nice, said she does kissing. Got to the room and no kissing, then all mechanical, you want extra, some many euros, you want this so many more euros. Upselling big time and different attitude. Big turn off. Well I got some wood anyway, but then she's 'Don't do it that way. Don't touch the condom. Don't do that, blah blah. So she totally shrunk my wood. Not going there again, another disappointment.

But I was still horny and then on the stairs I spotted Francesca. Brunette from Romania. Very hot, about 5'6 and wears glasses. Just my type of sexy secretary look. In the room she was OK. No DATY or FK but good BJ and she has a lovely tight pussy. She was liking it too and it's always good to get a girl who enjoys what she does. Great session to end with.

So 3 good, and 2 bad. I thought they would all be good, but my screening technique needs a bit of refinement still. I must remember to ask first if a girl does DFK and DATY and other things first. I sometimes forget and then she says no in the room. But saying no to sharks and almost anyone who approaches is definitely a good strategy, and usually seeing if a girl will chat for a while before a session and what they are like is useful.

[QUOTE=FiddyCent; 1523216]Select the one that you like, and tell her you want to choose the second girl for a threesome.

FiddyCent[/QUOTE]I strongly disagree with this advice! My experience tells me that you're actually much better off allowing the girls to choose each other. You see, you want the girls to really be into each other. The chances of that happening (resulting in a quality experience for you) go way down if you're just picking willy nilly based on what you the monger like without regard for the other girl. This is a situation where you now have to give real consideration to what all the players want. To have a great threesome, you need to let the girls choose each other. Now, as the paying customer you still have absolute veto power. If you're not into both tutes, then just say "no". But if you do like both and it's a threesome you seek, then go for it. I haven't done a lot of threesomes because of the cost (and I really prefer to keep my focus on only one anyway) , but when I have done them each experience has been some kind of memorable!

Before each session, I took the advice of seasoned mongers more experienced with threesomes and allowed the tutes to select the third partner for our perverted trysts. As long as I was OK with the other girl, I was down for action (when I happened to be in one of my rare moods for a threesome). For me, this approach has worked like a charm each time! So remember, if you want a shot at a premium threesome experience, let the girls pick each other for the session. That's because an essential ingredient to an outstanding threesome is not only that you the monger are into both girls. Both of the girls also absolutely must be turned on by each other too! You have a much greater chance of that being the case if you let them choose each other rather than you the monger choosing two random tutes in the club that you like.

Like I said, I don't do a lot of threesomes. But when I have done them, I've never had a bad session. In fact, they have all been great! And I'm convinced that's because the girls really liked each other and sharing my boner between them! If a couple of tutes keep pestering you for a threesome that you have no interest in, just tell them "sorry but I only have one dick for one girl" LOL! After a rejection or two, they normally will leave you alone and never ask again. I remember one time at Artemis there were two Polish blondes who would only do threesomes! Weird I thought. One of them was OK, but I really liked the other. I didn't like them both well enough for a threesome, so I tried for the one I liked. She absolutely would not session with me alone. So weird I thought. Imagine how much money they were leaving on the table by only agreeing to do threesomes! Anyway, their loss and not mine because I buggered other blonde Polish cuties at Artemis on that day and others.

[quote=ultrahappy; 1523235]next time you will take your time and observe the other guys and how they handle the women. you will make a commitment to yourself that you absolutely won't session with a girl in your first hour there. instead, you'll take a tour of the place. you'll order a drink and just hang out awhile and observe. you will say no to the first dozen girls that approach you. then, after your first hour there, you can approach your favorite girls on your terms. next time you won't go with any girls that give you a bad vibe. next time you'll go to oase or sharks or one of the other big clubs. and maybe next time you will only do one or two of these things but at least you'll have some experience behind you and you will be better prepared.

by the way, if any of the girls ever question your manhood again, don't argue with them. just smile and laugh and say something witty or self-deprecating back to them. you're got plenty of time now to think up witty responses now before your next trip. even if you're not having fun at that particular moment, act "as if" and don't let them see that they got to you. some of them are playing their games. that doesn't mean you can't play your games right back. if a girl is going to be rude to you, she is actually doing you a favor by letting you know that she's a "shark" and that she's someone who you really don't want to take to the room. so, when a girl is rude to you, just be thankful that she just saved you from wasting 50 euros.

and please read a lot more of the fkk forum threads before your next trip. a lot more.[/quote]you are absolutely right i could not agree more on this i did watch other guys in there example i saw two guys maybe in mid 50:s sitting and talking smoking and drinking some beverage and i told my self "damn how could they be so relaxed why don't i try to do the same and just take it easy" but nope my mind did the opposite.

but i will my next visit will be more different i know it will be because i'm going to have an game plan and try my all best to stick with it.

about the girl i don't know why i reacted like that i usually don't give a damn about what some girls can say, it's the same on night clubs girls will always be girls it does not matter what they work with. i was going upstairs to the rooms with two girls when she said this may be it was that i don't know. but again you are right i will do it as you said next time.

[quote=fiddycent; 1523216]hello alezis.

the girls may have killed your dreams, but learn from these rookie mistakes. when you formulate a new game plan, give artemis a second try. time was definitely an enemy of yours. when you can budget a full day, then go back. spend time to interview all the girls that approach you. don't be afraid to tell them no. if they come back again, keep turning them away until you find the girls that you like. you have the cash, and cash is king! all things considered, you did get a threesome and some anal action. that ain't half bad for a first crack at this. next time, interview solo girls. select the one that you like, and tell her you want to choose the second girl for a threesome. make her wait on the couch with you. do not be afraid to dictate the pace and the choice of action. tell them that only if you like them, you will extend the session. remember, cash is king! i am sure that when you have time to replay everything in your head, you will realize that the money you spent here was far better than the money you blew on strippers who did not deliver anything but a cock tease. did you ever watch top gun? when maverick was afraid to go back up and fly, viper told him that he will fly with him. that is what you need, somebody at your side to give you flying advise.

fiddycent[/quote]you are right fiddycent, i have already been planing for my next visit and have been thinking and replaying how i acted and what i did wrong. and it was a lot. first of all i was sitting just beside the game machines on the first floor. i mean i was like an sitting duck. just waiting to be taken.

i did talk for maybe 5-10 girls and politely told some of them i have to relax or i have to think about it or i simply told no thanks, but i'm not interested. like i said in my report one girl said that i had made promise to her that i will take here. which i didn't do. i told her i'm going to think about it and if i'm interested i will come and find you don't you worry.

i wanted to go their to do the "dreams" a guy could have about sex. and try some of the things that is hard to manage in real life like threesomes, foursome lesbian show etc etc. i get plenty of vanilla sex anyway. so i did some of it at artemis like the threesome and anal even if it was not like i wanted i have done it.

but as you say i could not agreed more with you i don't think so mutch about the money i have spent they can have it. next time i will spend it more wisely.

the strippers i went to in my home town did not do anything i mean for 3 songs you pay near 110 euro only for an non contact lap dance.

haha thanks for he motivational speech i remember the scene well and it felt like i was in it when i was reading. heck i almost heard the action hero sound in my head.

thanks for writing and giving tips.

[quote=pussyliccker;1523194]interesting report alezis. i would say you had a newbie experience. i would not hold it against art. if you go to any big clubs, you will get similar treatment more or less. i think the girls smelled a newbie, and once they do, they will do what they can to take advantage of that. these are working girls you are dealing with, you need to learn to deal with the pros or find a service oriented club.[/quote]you are absolutely right too i know i was giving away all the signals that i was a newbie i almost forgot my own name when a girl asked me because i was stressed out.

i want to go back to artemis now and give it a try again i still need to do this things i have been thinking about so it's a done deal for me only i will go back smarter and try to have an game plan. i work as an sales agent for living and are selling products face to face to big companies. so i should know how to handle this. better luck next time i hope.