Kyiv

I know Kiev and is good for me but wonder what offer Kharkov? I assume is cheaper than Kiev and maybe the experts here in this Forum can confirm this? And what about the young students in Kharkov and the scene there? Where can I find them? Is Mc Donald a good place or any other recommendation about places and prices?

Thanks in advance and regards

S74, it's been covered in the 'Other Area's' section.

For such a big city, you would think so.

Only a couple of popular cafe/nightclubs, but they are small, and girls there go there to be "seen" by their friends, not to get picked up by a foreign monger for a one night stand.

A drug addict street walker or two, and one agency with one plain jane 23 year old who is extra-bitchy and has a 6 year old kid to feed with your cash, so make it quick.

Now if you are a young attractive russian oligarch with mafia connections and unlimited cash, you will have some hot girls.

If you speak russian, you can try talking to girls, make a date for the weekend, take her out, get to know her, maybe a goodnight kiss, then another date a few days after that, some more kissing, then probably get lucky the next weekend with her. There just went 2 weeks of your time!

Hope you like sitting around reading a lot. Have fun in Kharkov.

Or maybe stick with Kiev and Odessa, where the party is on, every night.

Oh, yeah, MacDonalds, its popular. Lots of young children enjoying hamburgers with their parents. And of course a few teenagers getting some american culture eating french fries, so if you are 15 and speak russian, you can make a few friends and talk about fashion. Ciao!

I'm interested in creating a flirt.com. Ua profile with hopes to find a Russian or Ukrainian girl who is interested in a sponsor. I would be willing to "spoil" this girl with dinners, perfumes, clothes, shoes, etc. But, would want some sex in return. I think you've done this yourself before. My question is how should I work my profile text? Should I say I'm looking for a girl who is looking for a sponsor. And, in return, you must provide sexual favors? Does that approach work? Or, is that expected without having to say it?

[QUOTE=Chill Bill]I'm interested in creating a flirt.com. Ua profile with hopes to find a Russian or Ukrainian girl who is interested in a sponsor. I would be willing to "spoil" this girl with dinners, perfumes, clothes, shoes, etc. But, would want some sex in return. I think you've done this yourself before. My question is how should I work my profile text? Should I say I'm looking for a girl who is looking for a sponsor. And, in return, you must provide sexual favors? Does that approach work? Or, is that expected without having to say it?[/QUOTE]

In my opinion you are wrong...

I have just a profile (basic) with my real age etc. saying nothing: no photo no description, just seeking for partner. It's a way to get in and registered. and then and only then you surf and you contact the girls...

If you put a profile you will recive hundreds of mails, mostly pros or overaged... just trying to separate your bills from your wallet! :( You have to choose!

Mind that most girls advertizing wand also sex. Not only friendship so... (exactly like guys).

For instance yesterday afternoon I was sorting the mails form last months, copying, delting, printing and so on... a routine job, having flirt open for around 5 hours. Clicking here and there, and chosing girls in Kiev myself in this five hours I had the time to find:

Two 18-19teen girls to sponsor looking even younger (:( !) for huge amounts... 400 USD a day! but real little stunners.

Some pen pals... two or three just for chat.

Some normal girls to go to dinner with: on 18, four 19, one 23 one 25. In the meantime agreeing with some pros doing anal too (you know when it's 11.00 p.m. and nothing happens I will not go home and use my hand!) like this:

Приветик!
Встреча на моей или твоей територии
80$ часик, 2 часа 150 $ - класический и оральный секс (только в презервативе) За анал доплата 20$ (возможно только если член не толстый)
Если устраивают условия встречи оставлю моб
м Героев Днепра

of course there was the telephone too and 300 for the night (she is 23 too).

By the way I have two three pics I send out (by mail only) when they ask me for them. If you are a westerner you can make a variation on the age requests. if the search a guy up to 30, if you are 40 and do not look like 50 it's OK.

Mind that most do not answer at all. You have to use a basic message, in English or in Russian for all personalizing it with some things like: "only one photo" or "Ohh I love you freckles" etc etc so the message seems not made for a group.

My opinion (based on some experience) Is that you scroll the pages out of 1.000 girls in flirt (sorted only by age usually I go up to 23-4 not more) you can sort 150 approx to write. Of these 1/3 will answer, some asking pictures etc etc (but I never lie on anything). Finally you will get good chit chat with 15. Ten will look out to be normal girls. Five pros of some way (pros, sponsor etc).

Usually you will be able to get in bed with 7 or 8 of the normal ones, some are real pen pals, you perhaps meet for a dinner (I have one Ekaterina, a real high ranking 21 y.o. girl, living in an apartment worth one or two million dollars and very wealthy, and studied in a British College!). A nice experience that too…

So with 5 hour of partial work now I have just five teens waiting… and I have planned a new year trip… you know romantic with train from Kiev to Moscow with one of the (already nailed so…)

That’s all, and my ideas. I do not know who you can ask more. Irish Lad uses flirt and I think doc Skank too…

Happy hunting.

IT


PS The two problems when I’m selecting the sponsored girls are: anal, BBBJ + CIM and possibly pictures are mandatory… no anal no money! :D

From my experience the girls who have colored adds and appear naked in photos are pros.They will ask for 50-100$ per hour or 250-300$ per night.

If you search in ads for girls with xatsiu naiti sponsora in their profile but without coloured letters and without naked photos,then you will find normal girls who ask for a sponsor,that is gifts or money for some days but definitely less than pros or semipros let's say 150$ for two girls for the whole day and then keeping them with some meals etc.

[QUOTE=It Travel]… no anal no money! :D[/QUOTE]I like that! Thanks IT. One more quick question -- I too am looking for the girls under 22; the younger, the better. Have you found flirt.com to be better for finding Ukrainian or Russian girls? Or, is it about the same?

Also, how willing have you found the normal girls to have sex on the first meeting? Do you try for that, or go for it on the 2nd meeting?

Hey guys,

I'm going back to Kiev, I have some agencies I am going to try out while there wish me luck. Anybody have any "must haves" to suggest? If I can I will get some photos and get them on here, I am not a premium member now but I will pay back some favors. At least to It.

[QUOTE=Hecker]From my experience the girls who have colored adds and appear naked in photos are pros.They will ask for 50-100$ per hour or 250-300$ per night.

If you search in ads for girls with xatsiu naiti sponsora in their profile but without coloured letters and without naked photos,then you will find normal girls who ask for a sponsor,that is gifts or money for some days but definitely less than pros or semipros let's say 150$ for two girls for the whole day and then keeping them with some meals etc.[/QUOTE]

That varies greatly, the super hot type looking for sponsors are sometimes even more expensive than normal pros and quite often they aren't interested in just one or two meetings. They need a more steady flow of income.

There are no guarantees in dating/meeting "sponsorship" girls... sometimes a great thing, sometimes a complete waste of time and money.

Girls whose photos are outlined in pink or red are pros. Girls asking for sponsorship will fuck for money, but that doesn't mean they just fuck anybody for money... even though for the right amount of money they probably would.

[QUOTE=Chill Bill]Also, how willing have you found the normal girls to have sex on the first meeting? Do you try for that, or go for it on the 2nd meeting?[/QUOTE]

That also varies, generally speaking 2 meetings is average, but again your mileage will vary. If I haven't gotten laid by the third meeting at the latest, I call it a loss and move on. Usually you'll know by the first date if it is going anywhere. I always try to get at least a kiss on date one. If you can't get even that far, your probably wasting your time. There is no hurt in trying for it all on date one, I haven't found it to have a negative affect on date 2. In any case, it'll make your attentions clear and if she agrees to a second date, your in.

This of course assumes you are just interested in having sex with her for a couple of times and not developing a real relationship. If you are looking for a bride, you might want to take it a bit slower and enjoy the courtship some more.

Hecker, I was curios how do you specify in your search "xatsiu naiti sponsora"? I speak the language but do not seem to be able to find that option on that webpage:) thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=Sean EZ]Hecker, I was curios how do you specify in your search "xatsiu naiti sponsora"? I speak the language but do not seem to be able to find that option on that webpage:) thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]It stays on the right. It is the common database of znakomstva mail. Ru, flirt. Ru and many other sites. If a girl is interested in sponsoring you see on the right under materialnoge paderzka. There stands if she wants sponsor or not.

[QUOTE=Chill Bill]I like that! Thanks IT. One more quick question -- I too am looking for the girls under 22; the younger, the better. Have you found flirt.com to be better for finding Ukrainian or Russian girls? Or, is it about the same?[/QUOTE]

It's very simple dear friend.. Moscow is Moscow and Kiev is Kiev... I do not think you need more comments? (Moscow suburban ara plus city neraly 25 million, only Moscow city is towars 11 million and Kiev... )

IT

PS Its a matter of seraching, more you have more you get, of course Kiev is $$ and Moscow $$$ but...

Hello Guys,

Anyone who could help about Krivoy Rog. Where to find girls? How much it costs?

Thank you

[QUOTE=Sean EZ]Hecker, I was curios how do you specify in your search "xatsiu naiti sponsora"? I speak the language but do not seem to be able to find that option on that webpage:) thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]Hello all,

To find girls looking for sponsors "Хочет найти спонсора" on flirt / singles / mail.ru / etc.com you either need to activate the "advanced search" option or upgrade to VIP status where it's included. This can be done by SMS when in Ukraine. For "advanced search" option it's 95+your profile number (e.g. 95+1234567) to 1045, for VIP satus it's 99+your profile number to 4280.

Otherwise just keep a look out on each profile as you read it.

IL

Gents,

I will be returning to Kiev soon, and I intend on trying out for the "Mystery Tramp Olympic Banging" team because it seems to be the right thing to do.

If anyone spots her, could you report it here or via PM so I can plan my schedule?

Muchas gracias!

Looks like our thread get erased... but to answer your question:

[url]www.kievlet.com[/url]

[QUOTE=Irish Lad]Hello all,

To find girls looking for sponsors "Хочет найти спонсора" on flirt / singles / mail.ru / etc.com you either need to activate the "advanced search" option or upgrade to VIP status where it's included. This can be done by SMS when in Ukraine. For "advanced search" option it's 95+your profile number (e.g. 95+1234567) to 1045, for VIP satus it's 99+your profile number to 4280.

Otherwise just keep a look out on each profile as you read it.

IL[/QUOTE]

How can one upgrade from the USA? I tried to figure it out, but struggled. Would like to upgrade to VIP and the extended search. Any tips on how I can do that would be GREATLY appreciated! :)

[QUOTE=Chill Bill]How can one upgrade from the USA? I tried to figure it out, but struggled. Would like to upgrade to VIP and the extended search. Any tips on how I can do that would be GREATLY appreciated! :)[/QUOTE]Hello all,

I'll get my assstant to look at the "webmoney" option on Monday and revert or get a friend who lives in this part of the world to do it for you.

[QUOTE=Chill Bill]How can one upgrade from the USA? I tried to figure it out, but struggled. Would like to upgrade to VIP and the extended search. Any tips on how I can do that would be GREATLY appreciated! :)[/QUOTE]

To my knowledge, you can't. At least I haven't been able to figure it out.

I think the reason is because when you send the text message to upgrade or boost, your SIM card is charged. They can't as easily do that with foreign SIM cards/providers... unless they had some agreement with the foreign provider.

What you CAN do however is use your Ukrainian/Russian SIM card in your home country to boost/upgrade... your SIM card gets charged appropriately.

Other option is to have some one in Ukraine/Russia boost your account for you by sending an SMS with your code.

I've actually had girlfriends send boost SMSs for me so I can meet more women on the dating sites. How very social of them.

Dear friends!

I stayed in Ukraine for 3 weeks, It was so nice trip.

and now I'm in Lybid, Kiev.

Anyone who know how can I meet some ukrainian girl near here?

Is there anyone who can answer for my ask?

Thanks friend!

Maybe I need call to GIA

(Is lybid let a girl to my room?)

What you CAN do however is use your Ukrainian/Russian SIM card in your home country to boost/upgrade. Your SIM card gets charged appropriately.

One of you has any clue what I need to send the sms to from outside? from inside, i send it to 1045, right? what do I do if sending it from outside from a ukraine BUT WITH a ukraine simcard?

Help would be nice

You can upgrade to VIP through web money if you buy a card in web money and put its number on VIP registration. However you need o know russian to do it cause both webmoney and resistration in VIP are in russian.

[QUOTE=Iron [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url]]Dear friends!

I stayed in Ukraine for 3 weeks, It was so nice trip.

and now I'm in Lybid, Kiev.

Anyone who know how can I meet some ukrainian girl near here?

Is there anyone who can answer for my ask?

Thanks friend!

Maybe I need call to GIA

(Is lybid let a girl to my room?)[/QUOTE]


I have been in Lybid hotel in Kiev and I had no problem to bring back girls from River Palace, Moda bar, Club 111 (who was located just next to the hotel)...

During the day (afternoon) we just walked straight to the elevators. During the night (evening and night) the girls had to register at the reception but I was not asked any extra money as I booked a double room - single use.

Dear all.

So much advise on the site. How can I dial 1045 with my ukraine sim from outside the Ukraine? Advice would be appriciated.

Info on Lybid: the hotel has status "green" before 11 pm - afterwards, all girls do need to check in. Book double room (and pay for it too) if you want to advoid any hussle.

I normally deposit a room key with the girl and she will follow - giving security my name and roomnumber. If I call in a girl, I just give that information on the phone and deposit the key on the left side of the entrance somewhere at the (unused) terrace.

Hope that helps.

[url]http://www.megateens.info[/url]

They have many nice girls there on the site.

Greetings

Frank

Frank,

We have seen many agencies and site on Kiev - the one you posted perfectly fits in the rip-off-total-scam scenery, so please just leave it out of here.

Thank you!

Frankie,

The good news is that you are not another Gia pimp. However, from the rest of us here, please do go away.

Your site is nothing but a ripoff of other local Ukraine sites. Not only that but I have had the pleasure of meeting a number of the ladies and on your site much of the information that you have is so wrong as to be useless.

You are nothing but a thief, an incompetent ripoff from other sites.

Gentlemen of this forum, you are better off using the local Ukraine sites, this one from Frankie is a waste of bandwith.

[QUOTE=Wallyally]Dear all.

So much advise on the site. How can I dial 1045 with my ukraine sim from outside the Ukraine? Advice would be appriciated.

Info on Lybid: the hotel has status "green" before 11 pm - afterwards, all girls do need to check in. Book double room (and pay for it too) if you want to advoid any hussle.

I normally deposit a room key with the girl and she will follow - giving security my name and roomnumber. If I call in a girl, I just give that information on the phone and deposit the key on the left side of the entrance somewhere at the (unused) terrace.

Hope that helps.[/QUOTE]

Wallyally,

Well not sure how it is in every country, but I just dial 1045 whenever I am in Europe... no prefix, nothing. Goes through and profile gets boosted. If you need further assistance on dating via the dating sites, you might want to try:

[url]www.datinghelponline.net[/url]

I agree about the double room, that's good advice. I always book a double... often it costs the same as a single or only $10-15 more.... and you can have any guest you want there, she may just have to register at the desk. If a girl is coming over, make sure she has her national passport.

This site immediately asks for $50 reg fee via Paypal. Makes me suspicious.

Any dating sites with free-trial periods for Russian/Eastern European beauties?

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Wallyally,
need further assistance on dating via the dating sites, you might want to try:

[url]www.datinghelponline.net[/url][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=One Wing Low]This site immediately asks for $50 reg fee via Paypal. Makes me suspicious.

Any dating sites with free-trial periods for Russian/Eastern European beauties?[/QUOTE]Most dating sites are free of charge, like omen.ru, love.mail.ru or destiny.com.ua. However the link I posted is not a dating site per se, but rather a service that helps you navigate and communicate in the various free dating sites. It's primarily a method of helping those who don't speak Russian or don't have the time to use the site and communicate with both pro and non-pro women. It might be worth the $50 if it gets you laid... :)

[QUOTE=One Wing Low]This site immediately asks for $50 reg fee via Paypal. Makes me suspicious.

Any dating sites with free-trial periods for Russian/Eastern European beauties?[/QUOTE]


One Wing Low, I have used this site with no problems, One of the guys from here set it all up and his assistant runs it very well.
Makes it so much easier.

[QUOTE=Irish Lad]
Anyway, a few days later a girl from the same city kept looking at my profile so I wrote saying "why look but not write? " She replied and invited herself to Kiev. 2 minutes later my mobile goes. Original girl asking why I had invited her friend. I replied "you don’t come so I find someone else". She said "I’ll arrive tomorrow". She didn’t, but 2 days later she calls saying I have ticket I arrive 8. 15pm. I said "No, you said yesterday, someone else is coming today, don’t come".[/QUOTE]

What? You did not get her to bring her friend too?

[QUOTE=Irish Lad]I apologized but said she was"blah blah" and not to be wasting my time. She apologized and said "I can come Friday? " I said "yes, but only for 1 night". She came, we ate, we fucked several times, she went. She wants to come back. Now, to answer your question. I have no fucking idea why!

Pulling in clubs here is very much a game of poker when you hold all the Aces. It’s when you forget this concept and revert to western thinking that your success rate falls. I try to always remember that I can get laid for less than the price of a dinner...[/QUOTE]
These girls who come from the provinces, you don't even pay their train fare?
No shopping? No clubs? Just dinner, drinks and fuck? Amazing!

Was recently in Kiev for first time - very interesting city, but did not get a chance to check out the nightlife unfortunately. Security guys at Dnipro Hotel asked if i wanted female company for the night for 100 USD - anybody know about this service?

[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel]No shopping? No clubs? Just dinner, drinks and fuck? Amazing![/QUOTE]
Got a nice and cute stripper in Chisinau for totally free, not even a dinner (she always had dinner at home before our meetings). She costed me just a few drinks when we met in some cocktails bar at 9/10pm before she went working in Bacardi (a strip club in Botanica neighborhood), and taxi fares. A super nice and humble girl with very few materialistic expectations. She would get off of work at 5am, SMSed to see if I was available, and if I was, would go to my apartment, drink a few beers, talk a bit, bang me, sleep, re-bang, and then leave around 1pm. No questions asked.

Talk about a nice situation. Makes you very relaxed in that even if I went to a non-pro disco or had a date with a non-pro and say didn’t succeed that night, I always had my cute stripper to fall back on in the morning.

Zippy banged her friend, also stripper in Bacardi, for free. A nice and good-looking girl indeed.

Don't know if this could happen in Kiev. But this happens in Chisinau.

:)

[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel]What? You did not get her to bring her friend too?


These girls who come from the provinces, you don't even pay their train fare?
No shopping? No clubs? Just dinner, drinks and fuck? Amazing![/QUOTE]I didn't get her to bring her friend, maybe next time.

Yes, I paid for the train fare, see post #789 in photo gallery section. I always do.

Didn't go shopping and wasn't asked to take her shopping and didn't offer. I have bought gifts before, but not often.

I take them to clubs some of the time but not always. Didn't last weekend and didn't tonight with this weekends visitor from Poltava. Went to restaurant, she didn't eat, came home, fucked and she's sleeping while I write this.

Amazing?

Hello all,

Please excuse but I can't figure out how to "quote" from other threads.

Hecker wrote:-

"I disagree that 50% of girls in clubs are available. If it were so, all short time travellers to Kiev would score freebies and this does not happen. Actually it does not happen anymore since 2004. When I go to a club I hit on every hottie, so I know how high the actual chances are. I saw seldom foreigners pull girls in clubs. And looks do matter in Ukraine. You will see seldom an ugly man with a beautiful girl as it often happens in the West or in other countries like Czech Republic."

1. I believe 50% of girls in clubs are available, for free or at a price. I’ve always felt any single girl is available all over the world. I of course could be wrong but maybe it is this belief that boosts my confidence and success rate. It’s all a game anyway. Either way, my point was that sex is easy and cheap in Kiev and this reality should be your trump card when hunting in clubs. I was a frequent short term traveler to Kiev before moving here last year and my success rate was 60% in clubs but YMMV. Having said this I remember certain patterns that emerged for me back then. I never pulled the day I arrived. I never pulled on a Saturday night. I never pulled in 112.

2. Just because a percentage of girls are available, doesn’t mean a short term traveler to Kiev will pull. There are many reasons for this but 2 important ones are too much alcohol taken and bad attitude. If I have drunk too much I have almost no chance of pulling. Being drunk means "loser" to Ukrainian girls. The same for my bad mood days and the days when my coat ticket number is 13. This is life, but I still believe that anyone’s success rate is 10 times higher here than in most other countries. It’s also a question of being comfortable in whatever environment you’re in. A fellow forum member, who is also a friend, has never in his life pulled in a club, yet is scoring 2/3 times a week from making dates in cafes and inviting them to his home.

3. I have never been told by a girl in Ukraine that looks are important to her. Good shoes rank 10 places higher in my opinion. I see supermodels all the time with ugly guys 30 years older than them in Arena bar. When I see this situation in less financially obvious circumstances I think of the following reasons:- She loves him, he doesn’t drink too much, he dresses her better than he dresses himself, he doesn’t cheat too often, he works damn hard to provide for her or he would kill to protect her.

4. My taste in girls is very wide ranging so “hotties” to you may not mean the same to me and vica versa. Although there might be a high percentage of 9’s and 10’s in a club, I sometimes feel in the mood for a 6 with massive tits. I pointed out a girl to a friend of mine who has lived here for 14 years in a club one night saying “she’s my favourite here” and his reply was “you’re guaranteed to fuck her”. I asked why he thought so, and in between laughs he said “because no one else in Ukraine would”.

Strange!

IL

Uscot - Dnipro Hotel has some really bad looking lobby girls, which is probably the place the security guy will get the girl from.

The strip club in the hotel used to have some of the hottest girls in Kiev dancing there. That really doesn't seem to be the case anymore. You can have those girls for $400/night.

Visiting Kiev in October. Doing a bit of research at the moment. Only found this site today.

I've found this site:

[url]http://www.gia.com.ua/[/url]

Does anybody have any info about this site? The prices are good compared to where I live - Dublin, Ireland.

Would these prices be expensive for Kiev and would I be more likely to pick up a girl much cheaper when I arrive. I'm going to be staying in the Premier Palace Hotel so hopefully getting a girl in shouldn't be much hassle.

Anyway if anyone can help me out with some info it would be greatly appreciated. PM me or mail me [blue][Email address deleted by Admin][/blue] I'll keep reading through this forum. Thank you.

[size=-2][u][b]EDITOR's NOTE[/b][/u]: [blue]This report was edited to [u]remove email addresses in the text[/u]. Please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue][/size]

Irish you also left out one important point - which I think is the main reason why I tend to get over booked with girls when I am in Kiev.

There are literally 1000's and 1000's of drop dead gorgeous girls in Kiev but decent guys are in short supply - not to say that most of the people who read this forum or myself are decent. But sometimes I do get mistaken for a decent guy. ;) Add being (slightly) under 40 and somewhat good looking and you have quite the winning combination for Kiev. Which also goes back to the sage like advice of our own Dr S - If you do well in your country, you'll do great in Kiev.


I like to sum up yours and Heckers approach in two ways.

Irish - Hey, want to come to Kiev and fuck me for the weekend? I'll let you stay at my place.

Hecker - Hey, want to fuck me? I'll give you a mobile phone.

You never scored in 112 Irish? Is that possible? I'm not a huge fan of 112. Been there twice - scored the first time there. 2nd time there stayed for only 15 minutes because it was me and about 15 other very lonely looking guys. 111 was even better, I think it was known as the place for Ukrainian girls to go to fuck foreign guys - ah the good ol days (pre 2005)

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]

I like to sum up yours and Heckers approach in two ways.

Irish - Hey, want to come to Kiev and fuck me for the weekend? I'll let you stay at my place.

Hecker - Hey, want to fuck me? I'll give you a mobile phone.

You never scored in 112 Irish? Is that possible? I'm not a huge fan of 112. Been there twice - scored the first time there. 2nd time there stayed for only 15 minutes because it was me and about 15 other very lonely looking guys. 111 was even better, I think it was known as the place for Ukrainian girls to go to fuck foreign guys - ah the good ol days (pre 2005)[/QUOTE]Hi all,

Sure, "come to Kiev and fuck me" is one of my recent approaches and has been working well. I of course don't quite say it like that but as Janis Ian said it's "Between the lines".

I never scored in 112 as a "short term traveler" but since corrected, since closed, won't be missed.

IL

Haras,

If you spent a few minutes of your time initially before posting your inane message. you would have read much about Gia that has been posted many times.

If you speak only English and want low to bad quality for a ridiculous rip-off price but are desperate for a fuck, call Gia. They may be cheaper than what you get in Ireland but certainly you will be screwed in many other ways and not just financially.

However, if you want to spend a little time and effort on the other sites such as top-models or on the dating sites, you will do much much better.

However, in both cases, the same admonition applies, RTFF.

Otherwise, we will suspect that you are just another idiot shill coming in and promoting the shoddy agency known as G..

Do try and do more, much more, research before you post again, please.

[QUOTE=Uke Boy]Otherwise, we will suspect that you are just another idiot shill coming in and promoting the shoddy agency known as G.[/QUOTE]I can assure you I'm not promoting any agency.

I do only speak English and I've never been to Kiev before. I'm looking for any help I can get. I'm trying to avoid being ripped off. Any links to sites that can help me out would be appreciated.

What does RTFF mean?

[QUOTE=Haras]I can assure you I'm not promoting any agency.

I do only speak English and I've never been to Kiev before. I'm looking for any help I can get. I'm trying to avoid being ripped off. Any links to sites that can help me out would be appreciated.

What does RTFF mean?[/QUOTE]RTFF means Read The Fucking Forum.

And this forum does have basically everything you would want to know about Kiev including strip clubs, agencies and everything between.

[QUOTE=Haras]I can assure you I'm not promoting any agency.

I do only speak English and I've never been to Kiev before. I'm looking for any help I can get. I'm trying to avoid being ripped off. Any links to sites that can help me out would be appreciated.

What does RTFF mean?[/QUOTE]Haras,

Sign up for the subscription here and you can receive PM's and I'll give you the advice you'll need. RTFF means "read the fecking forum" and you'll find answers to almost any query.

IL

Irish, you mentioned 112 was closed? Is that right? I was just there a few months ago.

When I go to Kiev now, I have to pack the large rolling suitcase, all because of Cruiser. Thanks to him, I have to pack suit jackets and such that I don't need otherwise. It's strange that I need to dress better to go out to a club than I do to meet clients. :D

[QUOTE=Irish Lad]Haras,

Sign up for the subscription here and you can receive PM's and I'll give you the advice you'll need. RTFF means "read the fecking forum" and you'll find answers to almost any query.

IL[/QUOTE]I've subscribed.

Not sure how long it takes before it's active. Since my first rash post, I've read a bit of the forum and I'm getting some info. I can see the language being a problem though. Hopefully someone can point me in the direction of an English speaking girl.

Anyway I'm staying at the Premier Palace while I'm there.

PM away guys!

Please go easy on me, I'm new here

[QUOTE=Brandon88]Irish, you mentioned 112 was closed? Is that right? I was just there a few months ago.

When I go to Kiev now, I have to pack the large rolling suitcase, all because of Cruiser. Thanks to him, I have to pack suit jackets and such that I don't need otherwise. It's strange that I need to dress better to go out to a club than I do to meet clients. :D[/QUOTE]It was last week. Any updates and I'll post.

[QUOTE=Irish Lad]It was last week. Any updates and I'll post.[/QUOTE]

I agree... 112 won't be missed.

What will be missed is the hot bar girl with the long straight brown hair, I forget her name... she was hot.

She knew it of course, but was actually friendly at about 4 am...

Hi, my friend,

Dnipro hotel is too expensive because it is three times (three! ) more expensive than an italian hotel of the same quality. I suggest everybody to rent a good flat in the center in kiev between 50 and 75$ per night.

About its security men beh. Just shitting people! They cheat and they trade in prostitutes. I don't think they ask you for 100$ per night but they ask you for 100$ per hour and their girls are not nice and with bad service. Dnipro's security men have to gain 20/30$ per hour per girl!

I suggest you: talk less possible with security men, bring girls to your room before 10. 00 p. M.

I am an fan of the veterans of this forum because they are very good with prostitutes in kiev.

I am not glad with prostitutes in kiev because they are cheating exactly like each other prostitute in all over the world and I am very annoyed to play (dirty) with their cheat and tricks. Of course, you have to understand they are always cheating otherwise prostitutes make you think they are princesses;.)

I am glad of meetings with regular girls in kiev, not so beautiful and not so fucking like prostitutes but at least I don't waste a lot of money: money is the most important resource in life and girls know it well!

[QUOTE=Uscot]Was recently in Kiev for first time - very interesting city, but did not get a chance to check out the nightlife unfortunately. Security guys at Dnipro Hotel asked if i wanted female company for the night for 100 USD - anybody know about this service?[/QUOTE]

I talk about my experience and I see some experiences of other people and I am a good boy and so I am honest with me and with everybody else.

What is the main cheat? Prostitutes ask the double price for worst service they do and they are used to fuck mouth, pussy and ass without condom (because it is their job) and they prefer no to fuck without condom and they (sometimes or often) find customers more sly than their so they have to fuck without condom. For example, I know some prostitutes in venice they said to me they never fuck without condom but after I heard they usually do swallow blowjob and sometimes no-condom fucking and I know a prostitute in kiev and odessa I fucked her without condom (what a hot passion! ) ands now she replies she fucks with condom only and I know another prostitute in kiev I fucked her with condom and she was so satisfied of me and she asked me if I want to fuck without condom. .

I repeat, I repeat thousands times: prostitutes are used to fuck mouth, pussy and ass without condom in all over the world.

[QUOTE=Uscot]Was recently in Kiev for first time - very interesting city, but did not get a chance to check out the nightlife unfortunately. Security guys at Dnipro Hotel asked if i wanted female company for the night for 100 USD - anybody know about this service?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Acolonizer]I talk about my experience and I see some experiences of other people and I am a good boy and so I am honest with me and with everybody else.

What is the main cheat? Prostitutes ask the double price for worst service they do and they are used to fuck mouth, pussy and ass without condom (because it is their job) and they prefer no to fuck without condom and they (sometimes or often) find customers more sly than their so they have to fuck without condom. For example, I know some prostitutes in venice they said to me they never fuck without condom but after I heard they usually do swallow blowjob and sometimes no-condom fucking and I know a prostitute in kiev and odessa I fucked her without condom (what a hot passion! ) ands now she replies she fucks with condom only and I know another prostitute in kiev I fucked her with condom and she was so satisfied of me and she asked me if I want to fuck without condom. .

I repeat, I repeat thousands times: prostitutes are used to fuck mouth, pussy and ass without condom in all over the world.[/QUOTE]

It is obvious from your posts that you have certain issues with regards to p4p's which in turn begs the question as to why you use this forum in the first place. As the primary purpose of the ISG is to discuss and inform on matters concerning paid for sex with women it would seem that with your warped attitude you are on the wrong forum. Finally I would like to point out to you the the last one of the General Rules under the heading of NO PROSELYTIZING

[QUOTE=Tremayne]It is obvious from your posts that you have certain issues with regards to p4p's which in turn begs the question as to why you use this forum in the first place. As the primary purpose of the ISG is to discuss and inform on matters concerning paid for sex with women it would seem that with your warped attitude you are on the wrong forum. Finally I would like to point out to you the the last one of the General Rules under the heading of NO PROSELYTIZING[/QUOTE]

I think the guy have never been in the East he was even PM me this Venice pro...

I think he might be often drunk or drugged, surely no real monger...

All pros fuck anally w/o condom... I know none... It's alredy difficult to get a decent anal... with condom!

Just my two cents

IT

Looks real nice but I think I've seen the oictures somewhere else.

Needs a ticket to come from Odessa to Kiev

Can anyone tell me if theres something wrong here

[url]http://vera.escortwww.com/[/url]

i have been to kiev a few days recently and wanted to go back to massage salon [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url] just off kreshatik through the arch into that small pittoresque street with the cafes and shops.

the place has been in the first building to your left side as you entered from kreshatik, but i have not seen ads anywhere? place was clean and tidy, where has it gone?

[quote=hecker]
i disagree that 50% of girls in clubs are available. if it were so, all short time travellers to kiev would score freebies and this does not happen. actually it does not happen anymore since 2004. when i go to a club i hit on every hottie, so i know how high the actual chances are. i saw seldom foreigners pull girls in clubs. and looks do matter in ukraine. you will see seldom an ugly man with a beautiful girl as it often happens in the west or in other countries like czech republic."
[/quote]

actually every girl that is unaccompanied by a guy is available, always... it's just a question of getting her to make that decision to come home with you. i'm not saying that people will score 50% of the time, as you correctly stated most guys don't.

you are right about another thing to, it isn't getting easier... but it still is easier in ukraine or russia to sleep with hot girls for "free" or little effort than any other place i ever been. still, despite the relative ****tiness of ee women and the horniness of foreign guys, most guys (and girls for that matter) who go to a club leave alone. somehow there is a breakdown in communication, because most guys go to a club looking to get laid and most girls would go home with a guy if the circumstances were right. ask girls, they'll tell you that... but the vast majority of guys aren't pushing the right buttons. and knowing which buttons to push varies from girl to girl, so there is nothing "automatic" about it.

a lot of things can interfere with guys getting what they want.

1) shyness: an amazing amount of guys go to clubs and don't even talk to a single girl and then wonder why they didnt score. duh.

2) communication: if you can't even hold a simple conversation with a girl, you don't have a chance. speaking russian helps a lot (i know some guys are of another opinion, but trust me it helps). even if the language of communication is english, you still have to be able to communicate with her in terms she'll understand. a lot of guys fail miserably at this. you have to be able to flirt and keep a conversation going long enough that she starts gaining interest.

3) pressure: foreigners on long weekends or sex holidays are always looking to score immediately and often screw things up by rushing the situation. you have to chose the right time to make your move and waiting until closing time isn't always going to be it.... sometimes its smarter to just get a number and meet her the next day for coffee and then put the pressure on. sometimes its better to go for the immediate score as you may not get another chance. a lot also depends on her, where she lives, who's she with. some girls simply can't go home with a guy from a club... have to meet mom, friends etc. in the afternoons they are free to do what they want, i.e. fuck you.

4) choosing your target: if your target girl is not giving you any good vibe at all, you are probably wasting your time. interestingly enough, the girls that are very chatty and open and friendly (and especially those that speak english well) are often poor choices for quick and easy sex. they're often like princesses who just like to meet and practice (and show off) their english. you have to be pretty aggressive with them because they know their "value" among foreigners and don't like to give it up easy.

5) knowing your taste: if there is a particular type of girl that you do well with and enjoy, go for it. for me it varies between different types, but i do seem to be drawn to the same types over and over again... and with certain types (redheads, short cute brunettes) i am almost guaranteed to score if i can get some time alone. having that confidence helps.

6) knowing her taste: if there is a type of girl that goes for you, try to get in range of her. it works for me, certain types seem drawn to me whereas other types would probably overlook me if i was standing alone in the middle of the dance floor with my hair on fire. you can't win them all, go with something that works.

7) there are no rules: most important is really just talking to girls and going for it. you have nothing to lose.

[quote=irish lad]
1. i believe 50% of girls in clubs are available, for free or at a price. i’ve always felt any single girl is available all over the world. i of course could be wrong but maybe it is this belief that boosts my confidence and success rate. it’s all a game anyway. either way, my point was that sex is easy and cheap in kiev and this reality should be your trump card when hunting in clubs. i was a frequent short term traveler to kiev before moving here last year and my success rate was 60% in clubs but ymmv. having said this i remember certain patterns that emerged for me back then. i never pulled the day i arrived. i never pulled on a saturday night. i never pulled in 112.
[/quote]
exactly.

pulling is often about confidence and comfort. some strange things i've noticed...

* just like you, i almost never score on day 1 in country... i usually have fun and get drunk, but don't score. we have to go out together sometime, maybe our collective incompetence on day 1 will somehow yield better results... :)

* i agree that saturday night is a shit night for scoring, i usually only do well on saturdays by scoring with drunk girls.... which is quite ok with me. fridays or weekdays are often better.

* on my last night in country i rarely score... i am usually a bit depressed and thinking about the flight the next day. the only time it has worked for me is when girls have come up to me in the club adn asked "why you alone? and why you look so sad?". the puppy dog effect. better than axe.

* i do well on cold miserable days. girls feel cuddly then.

* i do particularly well if get "on a roll". i am more likely to score 3 times in 2 days than 1 time in 5. getting the mojo going helps... even if you have to pay for it to get started. afternoon or early evening sex with pros works wonders.

[quote=irish lad]
2. just because a percentage of girls are available, doesn’t mean a short term traveler to kiev will pull. there are many reasons for this but 2 important ones are too much alcohol taken and bad attitude. if i have drunk too much i have almost no chance of pulling. being drunk means "loser" to ukrainian girls. [/quote]

generally true, although being drunk has worked for me often enough... but you have to achieve the right amount of drunkeness... if you are slurring speech or stumbling, it's too late. usually when scoring drunk its been when the girl was drunk too and most often when she had been drinking with me. inviting girls to drink does work. going up to a new girl smelling of vodka with red glassed over eyes doesn't. ;)

[quote=irish lad]3. i have never been told by a girl in ukraine that looks are important to her. good shoes rank 10 places higher in my opinion. i see supermodels all the time with ugly guys 30 years older than them in arena bar. when i see this situation in less financially obvious circumstances i think of the following reasons:- she loves him, he doesn’t drink too much, he dresses her better than he dresses himself, he doesn’t cheat too often, he works damn hard to provide for her or he would kill to protect her.
[/quote]

if i had a penny for every time a girl told me "man must not be beautiful, man must be strong" i'd have at least 56 pennies.

looks help obviously, but it really isn't a central theme with girls. i think style and clothes are even more important than looks. let's face it, ee girls are obsessed with their own looks and don't care much about the guys. they are used to fucking ugly guys, so compared to their own lot we are probably all models... :)

another favorite is "i want a man who loves me." seems to be pretty tough to find such guys. imagine that.

[quote=irish lad] my taste in girls is very wide ranging so “hotties” to you may not mean the same to me and vica versa. although there might be a high percentage of 9’s and 10’s in a club, i sometimes feel in the mood for a 6 with massive tits. i pointed out a girl to a friend of mine who has lived here for 14 years in a club one night saying “she’s my favourite here” and his reply was “you’re guaranteed to fuck her”. i asked why he thought so, and in between laughs he said “because no one else in ukraine would”.
[/quote]

knowing your own taste and what you want right then goes a long ways. banging the crap out of a very appreciative and active 6 is often more fun than screwing a spoiled skinny self-obsessed 8, although those are nice too.... :)

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank].
2) communication: if you can't even hold a simple conversation with a girl, you don't have a chance.[/QUOTE]
Some knowledge and interest in russian culture is also strategically important and often rewarding.

Just mention Michael Boulgakov's "Master and Margarita" (a book that most russians place, with good reasons, in the Pantheon of Litterature) in a conversation and you'll appear as a "learned" guy not only interested in pulling her panties off but also by her culture.

It's not a direct ticket to a dyevuska's panties but it's part of it. I very recently had the proove.

:)

PS : I've just read 'Death and the Penguin' and 'Penguin Lost' of Andrei Kourkov, an ukarinian author. Wonderful novels about Russia and Ukraine, packed with intrigue and mordant humour. Viktor tracks down his beloved penguin, Misha, through Ukraine, Russia and even Chechenya. True gems.

Ds. Just one question. Are you the ISGs new messiah. .

Bois

Ultra quality info. But then most of us are so used to paying for it!

Great thoughts by the Doctor (and Irish as well).

Now I have to bone up on local literature too? This is too much. :D

Interesting encounter at RP last night. I spotted 'Luiba' in the usual spot again. This was one that I pulled twice before at $150 for all night. Last time I pulled her, we made eye contact and she came over right away. This time, she kept glancing but looking away with no recognition. I wasn't really interested in doing a three-peat, but went over to chat nonetheless. I asked 'do you remember me?' and she said 'of course, but it is the man's job to say hello'. This is RP, not church, but whatever.
I fought the lousy bar-staff to get a round of drinks for the both of us, chatted for a bit, then turned my back for a minute, and bang, she's with another guy. Generally, a drink should get you the right of first refusal, so to speak. I guess not.

Doc had a good point about a great 6 versus a lousy 9. Last 9 I hooked up with turned into "let's get this over with, don't touch me, try to fuck me without any contact whatsoever (if that were possible)", whereas the 6 was loads of fun. In a room like RP, the ones you know may be better than the ones you don't, so it becomes a mental tug of war between exciting unknown variety and safety.

[QUOTE=Prosal]Some knowledge and interest in russian culture is also strategically important and often rewarding.
Just mention Michael Boulgakov's "Master and Margarita" (a book that most russians place, with good reasons, in the Pantheon of Litterature) in a conversation and you'll appear as a "learned" guy not only interested in pulling her panties off but also by her culture.
[/QUOTE]
Right on the money, friend. Bulgakov is one that most like, even though some think he is a bit too surrealistic. But mentioning Bulgakov, Patraishy Ponds and so on wins you points. There was recently a mini-series done on the book, I'll have to check it out.

One that scores points for me is Czech writer Milan Kundera... "the Unbearable Lightness of Being" is a must-read.

I've been watching Soviet films, especially comedies, lately. They are great, even if you don't understand all the Russian, they are worth watching. And mentioning a few names like "Operatia Vi", "Shurik", "Kavkasskaya Plennitsa", "Italienetsi v Rossii" or "Brilliantnaya Ruka" will break the ice and boost your position in her eyes.
[QUOTE=Bbois77]Ds. Just one question. Are you the ISGs new messiah. .

Bois

Ultra quality info. But then most of us are so used to paying for it![/QUOTE]
I'm more "devout pupil" than "messiah"... I continue to learn and practice practice practice.

And there is nothing wrong with paying for it... some of my best sex was with pros...
[QUOTE=Brandon88] I asked 'do you remember me?' and she said 'of course, but it is the man's job to say hello'. This is RP, not church, but whatever.
I fought the lousy bar-staff to get a round of drinks for the both of us, chatted for a bit, then turned my back for a minute, and bang, she's with another guy. Generally, a drink should get you the right of first refusal, so to speak. I guess not.
[/QUOTE]
RP girls break every rule of good manners and good taste. A drink buys you at least 5 minutes of face time in the "Ho Book of Good Conduct". She loses points big time... :)

I agree about culture. However ukrainian girls do not have deep culture, they are a bit superficial and more primitive than czech or polish girls. Of course they know the national poets Shevtsenko etc or russian writers like Dostoyesvski, Gogol. Some do not like them because they remind them of school. Anyway there are party girls and romantic, intellectual girls as everywhere.

I wrote about beautiful girls, the ones that create the highest competition. They are hit by many guys during the week and some have a thicker shield. What I prefer is what the ukrainian guys also prefer, the same kind of girls, in fact the same girls exactly.

In Ukraine it is now uncommon to have a girl as fuckbody esp if she is beautiful. They want either long term relationship or sponsoring. In the past you could have girls who slept with you just for fun or to be more concise hoping for some future reward or because they were curious about foreigners. Now they want LTR(long term relationship), sponsoring or marriage. They have demands.

Language is very important. Without knowledge of language chances in province are close to zero. With language you get the girls that other foreigners cannot get due to language barrier and the ones who get lower salaries or are unemployed due to lack of knowledge of english. This creates a lot more chances, maybe you can get ten times more girls if you speak russian.

I insist about appearance. It comes from my observations. If a girl is beautiful and walks accompanied in the street, the boyfriend is always handsome. Exception are some middle aged, filthy rich mostly russian men who have extremely hot young girlfriends.

In general girls like younger men, about 23-28 years old. When I show them my photo when I was 5 years younger they beginn to whistle, look with big eyes and sometimes kiss the photo.

If you are young your chances are better definitely, granted you can afford staying in Kiev and paying for dates, taxis, clubs etc. The advantage of middle aged men is that students usually cannot afford to spnd more than 1000$ on vaccation and this budget reduces their chances of mongering in an expensive city like Kiev.

When I was in Decadence I spoke to every hot girl, let's say the 10 most beautiful girls. I got two phone numbers but both girls did not want to meet the next day. They flaked. In Carribean I had hit 15-20 girls to get a phone number and make out. In province I open sometimes over 30 girls in clubs and cannot get an one night stand, sometimes not even a kiss. A phone number from a girl in club will flake 90% if you call the next day because the girl will have regretted.

Anyway everybody has different experience and maybe different point of view.

Good thread discusion about the 6 versus a 9 dilemma - and gets to the core of one of the first principles of good mongering.

Often it comes down to the vibes thrown off and between a working girl and the monger when a conversation and sometimes even the initial meeting of eyes occurs. Hard to describe but if you can recognize it then you are close to the start of a top session/encounter. After that - one can rank the physical attributes on the scale of 1-10. The times a good vibration interaction girl turns in a poor session performance is very much less than a 9-10 that doesn't throw off that vibe.

The vibe can strike anywhere and anytime. A girl can have the vibe with one monger and not another and vice versa.

We are into personal chemistry here with all of its variables and indefinables.

When the vibes are right and its confirmed in the session then a 5 or 6 easily turns into a 9 or 10 during that time. And a 9 or 10 just as quickly reverts to a 5 or 6 or worse during a session if it is missing.

How to recognize and achieve constant vibe recognition? You can't as it depends on two people. With much practice, you can see it earlier and more often and more importantly avoid some of those "experiences I do not want to repeat". Usually, it is coming from lack of focus, inattention or 'junior' thinking he knows better.

Lesson of the story. Much more practice needed and regular maintenance of our vibe receptors. If only I could remember this so clearly when the mists of battle swirl on inspection tours.

Long live Good Vibrations - insert a Smiley Smile here. Must get out to practice some more.


[QUOTE=Brandon88]Great thoughts by the Doctor (and Irish as well).

Now I have to bone up on local literature too? This is too much. :D

Interesting encounter at RP last night. I spotted 'Luiba' in the usual spot again. This was one that I pulled twice before at $150 for all night. Last time I pulled her, we made eye contact and she came over right away. This time, she kept glancing but looking away with no recognition. I wasn't really interested in doing a three-peat, but went over to chat nonetheless. I asked 'do you remember me?' and she said 'of course, but it is the man's job to say hello'. This is RP, not church, but whatever.
I fought the lousy bar-staff to get a round of drinks for the both of us, chatted for a bit, then turned my back for a minute, and bang, she's with another guy. Generally, a drink should get you the right of first refusal, so to speak. I guess not.

Doc had a good point about a great 6 versus a lousy 9. Last 9 I hooked up with turned into "let's get this over with, don't touch me, try to fuck me without any contact whatsoever (if that were possible)", whereas the 6 was loads of fun. In a room like RP, the ones you know may be better than the ones you don't, so it becomes a mental tug of war between exciting unknown variety and safety.[/QUOTE]

Interesting evening at RP:

Steven Seagal appears downstairs to play guiter with a band. Some of you my recognize the name.

CruiserD, in a stunning display of mongering prowess, actually manages to get a Ukranian John Travolta to buy him a drink. I leave it up to Cruiser to post whether or not he gave out his number. :D

I decided to experiment by engaging the ugliest girl in the room to see what would happen. Well, not ugly, but miles below some of the other talent. Old. Nice body. Turns out she has a 21-yr old daughter (and of course my first thought was 'is she here too?'). We chatted for a while, and I was going for that gentlemanly angle to see if the GFE might materialize over the next few days. She mentioned being a pediatric nurse but having some cash flow problems. On to another venue to close out the night, but then decided to see if she was game. By this time, it was somewhere around 5am. Texted and got an instant reply that she was still in RP. Next response was simple...$300. Tried to bring her down to reality, no dice, $300 FIRM. It pretty much died out at that point.
Experiment failed.
I'm sure everyone has seen it before, but it always mystifies me when a girl will go home with zero rather than compromise a bit.

[QUOTE=Brandon88]Interesting evening at RP:

Steven Seagal appears downstairs to play guiter with a band. Some of you my recognize the name.

CruiserD, in a stunning display of mongering prowess, actually manages to get a Ukranian John Travolta to buy him a drink. I leave it up to Cruiser to post whether or not he gave out his number. :D

I decided to experiment by engaging the ugliest girl in the room to see what would happen. Well, not ugly, but miles below some of the other talent. Old. Nice body. Turns out she has a 21-yr old daughter (and of course my first thought was 'is she here too?'). We chatted for a while, and I was going for that gentlemanly angle to see if the GFE might materialize over the next few days. She mentioned being a pediatric nurse but having some cash flow problems. On to another venue to close out the night, but then decided to see if she was game. By this time, it was somewhere around 5am. Texted and got an instant reply that she was still in RP. Next response was simple...$300. Tried to bring her down to reality, no dice, $300 FIRM. It pretty much died out at that point.
Experiment failed.
I'm sure everyone has seen it before, but it always mystifies me when a girl will go home with zero rather than compromise a bit.[/QUOTE]


For 300 you can get our sex icon Mystery Tramp.... she do not have a 21 y.o. girl (perhaps it's she!) I think now she is 22 or 23...

Surely she is a lot more worn out (in her three pink holes) than your 40 y.o. women, but still look as a teen and does incredible things when drunk... just take care to have a couple of bottles home...

IT

[QUOTE=It Travel]For 300 you can get our sex icon Mystery Tramp.... she do not have a 21 y.o. girl (perhaps it's she!) I think now she is 22 or 23...

Surely she is a lot more worn out (in her three pink holes) than your 40 y.o. women, but still look as a teen and does incredible things when drunk... just take care to have a couple of bottles home...

IT[/QUOTE]

Well, I have 6 days to find her before I leave. Nobody has posted sightings or what nights of the week she can be found there.
As I mentioned before, I want to join the team here and do my duty.

[QUOTE=Brandon88]Well, I have 6 days to find her before I leave. Nobody has posted sightings or what nights of the week she can be found there.
As I mentioned before, I want to join the team here and do my duty.[/QUOTE]

No Comment...

I need to ger more miles in my Mystery Tramp Frequent Fucker Program so I get a free night! :D

IT

[QUOTE=It Travel]No Comment.

I need to ger more miles in my Mystery Tramp Frequent Fucker Program so I get a free night! :D

IT[/QUOTE]She really has to be retired by now though, right?

I mean, she can surely pay for that "university degree" she's been "saving up for" by now.

Anyone know of any Internet sites that allow for free SMS messages to Ukraine cell phones?

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank])))

She really has to be retired by now though, right???!!!!

I mean, she can surely pay for that "university degree" she's been "saving up for" by now.... ))))[/QUOTE]

Doc,

She was still around just some weeks ago... by the way she told me she had to buy a house in Germany (!) and go there and live, perhaps working in a FKK Club?

Ah Ah Ah :D

IT

CB, most carrier websites allow you to send a sms for free.

Ah yes, here I find myself sitting at River Palace, where did I go wrong? I had broken away from my usual program of hard core serial dating, the girls were really starting to wear my out. So I thought I would set myself up for a evening of Expat love. We had gathered at the Arena sports bar and everyone was abuzz about Steven Segal playing guitar at River Palace – as my eyes rolled to the back of my head I knew the tone of the evening was set. A faded flash in the pan B list action star and River Palace. I don’t think anyone else in the group felt the same irony as me of such a perfect pairing. I wonder if Steven knew it was a thinly veiled ho-house. I not so politely disappear from the group and go to the Mandarin Plaza courtyard to call an emergency dyevushka. But it is 2230 on a Friday night and of course no one is answering their mobile – their plans already set in motion for the evening.

We grab a taxi and head for Das Boot. The Boat is it’s usual self a little bit more faded since the last time I saw it – much like Orange Ukraine. The male 40+ exapt crowd has turned out in huge numbers in support of Steve. I’ve never seen that many guys in RP at once since the last time four Turkish tour buses pulled into the parking lot. The downstairs sport bar – where I usually hide is packed to the square cm so I quickly retreat to the disco. There are some good looking girls in the lobby looking to enter, things are starting to look up – but then again is there some place in the Ukraine where there isn’t a good looking girl.

I take a table close to the entrance with fellow ISG member Brandon. Sitting next to me is a very drunk Ukrainian man – who I at first mistook for German, dress all in white. Doesn’t he know you should not wear white after the first week of September? Egads! At first he tried to light the girl sitting next to him on fire. For some reason she rebuffed his advances. He sat in a drunken coma for a bit as if someone had turned his switch off. To keep myself entertained I started to watch the talent parade by me. Attractive girl, Amazon, Muffin top, very attractive girl, muffin top, amazon, attractive girl, muffin top and so they went by. Wow, not only is the quality of the girls low but the seemingly normal first asked average price is $300 – insane! 85% of the girls I see would be turned away from any decent US club. Sad.

Someone had flipped the switch (pun intended) on the drunk Ukrainian guy because he is awake and offering to buy me a drink. I of course ask for orange juice, fresh! He switches between hitting on me and the girl next to him. I figure the scene is so lame at RP I might as well have a little fun and see where this goes. He asks if I have a business card and I say no, I am not the type of man to give up my business card on the first drink. He asks me to join him in the lobby, at first I say no but then say, sure why not. He stops briefly in the lobby and then walks outside and down the river bank shuffling away in a drunken stupor not aware I am no longer walking with him. I think to myself, who does he think he is! We have not even settled on the price! Having had enough enjoyment I turn around to see Brandon and another buddy of mine about 10m behind me with their mouths open in surprise in shock. I don’t think I could stop laughing for about 10 minutes. We go back inside and head for the jam packed bar area. I bump, dodge and slide my way through the 15 or so meters collecting 3 phone numbers and many come hither smiles. Brandon has found himself a spot at the end of the bar next to his MILF and in boredom I head down to sports bar to give Steve a little love. One of the somewhat less attractive girls in the place follows me downstairs hoping to be my purchase for the night – would I do her for free – maybe if I was drunk. We make some polite chit chat for a while then I head back up to the disco to collect Brandon and we head off for another club – semi unintentionally ditching our druge. But that is a story for another night boys and girls.

The moral of this story – RP blows. You might find something there worthwhile if you are lucky. A non jaded girl fresh from outside of Kiev new to the business but don’t count on it.

And to all you guys paying $300 for MT – are you fucking insane? I don’t care what she does, how she does it. I wouldn’t have paid $300 for her (or any other girl at RP for that matter) if I caught her on her first night working there four-five years ago. Stop being complete and total tools, ok?

I got a few text messages yesterday from the MILF calling me 'greedy' and how about I 'pay for her kids to go to school'. Truly bizarre.

If any of you are seriously interested in paying a king's ransom to spend time with an old bag with serious emotional problems, I'll be glad to give you her number before I delete it. LOL!

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Actually every girl that is unaccompanied by a guy is available, always.[/quote]Hi Doctor,

What a pice of work. I totally agree with every single word of your report. I think that most of us have similar experience but from time to time it helps to ring all these facts back to our minds.

Thanks a lot

[quote=cruiser d]and to all you guys paying $300 for mt – are you fucking insane? i don’t care what she does, how she does it. i wouldn’t have paid $300 for her (or any other girl at rp for that matter) if i caught her on her first night working there four-five years ago. stop being complete and total tools, ok?[/quote]

at the end, do not know why, we come all to mt... of course she might be worn out, surely got and sucked more than 1.000 diffrent cocks (mine some times...), slurped cum everywhere (at least more than a dozen from this board, several times!).

i never discuss much on the price... i discuss on what i get for that price... 300 (usd?) for what. 300 can be a bargain or a hell of a robbery...

for instance last year i was in ukraine i paid 500 (usd) a day to yulia... (from gia, well knowing she gets half). simply because i had too many things with me that could be stolen. when you have yulia in your bed (she is much prettier than gia pics) you know you have and obedient nice little pig. if you want it sucked she'll do it, if you want to go between the titties and make a shot on her face or in the mouth no problem... if you want to take her because you are horny, and she is sleping: just wake her up. and get her cow girl.

as said previously i do not care much if a girl is a stunner (and then a log in the bed). all i need is a safe and nice (not a beauty) pig.

mt is one of the worst pig ever had ([url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url] was even better, but anal was off limits...) so... why getting those girls? because thy are pigs. and when i pay 300 or even 400 ($ not €) i want a nice girl making sex, then we will go to dinner, than sex again, night eating, and sex before sleeping, and then an identical morning round up to 11 or 12. that it's what i uasually do with valentina... 300 (dinner, breakfast and drinks so it's 350-380) from 6 p.m. to 12. a.m. that is sex! not just few hours starting at 3 a.m. :(

i already wrote this comments here some times the problem is always not really how much you pay, but for what you pay... i usually paid [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url] and mt 300 they are woth the money... a girl i took in moscow some time ago, for a night, was also 300, but she was not even worth 30 kopeks!

in sex what you see is not often what you get!

it

Sorry for the delays in posting this, I had some computer problems.

I recently headed to Kiev for a few days. I used Kievlet.com for an apartment and I would recommend them. They met me at the airport and drove me to the office where I paid for the apartment then drove me to the apartment which was right next to Arena.

I had arranged to meet MT that night. She came over around 11:00 PM and was better looking than I was expecting, she was also very friendly. When she came in the door she immediately gave me a great big hug and kiss. We chatted for a few minutes then ran out to get some drinks and a little food. When we got back to the apartment she was very horny and started kissing and using my hands to fondle her. After a few minutes she stuck my hands down her pants to feel how hot and wet she was. After some preliminary making she started with a BBBJ which moved into sex on the couch. Finally we moved into the bedroom where we had a great time before going to sleep. She stayed until about 10:30 the next morning with an early morning wake up session. I would definitely recommend her.

The next day I did a lot of sightseeing. It was great walking around the city and going to the museums. Lots for a tourist to see and do. But I won't go into that as I am sure most of you are not interested. Later that day I went to Rakuena for a massage, again a really nice time and I would recommend it. The 90 minute massage was both relaxing and stimulating and the girl was really nice and sensual.

That night I went to River Palace, it is all I had heard. After midnight there were a couple hundred girls walking around all of them in the 8, 9 or 10 range. Unfortunately for me I had seen my "perfect" choice in the bar and she was already with someone. No one else I saw quite compared so I went home alone at about 4:00 AM.

The next night I went to Shooters, on Irish Lads advice. It was a great place and lots of beautiful women dancing and drinking. I had a great time meeting and talking to some great looking girls. Unfortunately I wasn't feeling well and headed home.

At this point my trip turned south. I got pretty sick and wasn't able to do much. I spent the next two days in my apartment in bed trying to get over what ever I had.

I was disappointed with my trip but definitely not with the girls or the services. I am going to go back and visit again.

I want to thank Irish for helping me out when I was sick. He is a great guy.

PIT

[QUOTE=PassinThrough]That night I went to River Palace, it is all I had heard. After midnight there were a couple hundred girls walking around all of them in the 8, 9 or 10 range. Unfortunately for me I had seen my "perfect" choice in the bar and she was already with someone. No one else I saw quite compared so I went home alone at about 4:00 AM.

[/QUOTE]

Nice report, glad you at least enjoyed the women.

A couple of hundred girls in the 8-10 range? Maybe a bit of an exaggeration? Were you flying high on a crack-XTC cocktail? :)

Not only does RP not fit more than a hundred or so total guests inside, when it does they certainly aren't all going to be 8-10s...

You were there, not me... but I think 50 girls ranging from 6-9 was probably more like it... :)

Doctor,

It was late on a Friday night/Saturday morning, the disco was so packed you could not get within about 15 feet of the bar and if you were at the bar you could not move. There were at least a couple hundred people in the Disco and most of them were women. All the tables were packed and the bar downstairs was also crowded. It was so crowded that a lot of girls were sitting in the casino so they could get a drink. My guess of a couple hundred seems right to me. As for the quality, they were all pretty hot, I doubt there were many over 26 and I didn't see any I would consider fat or ugly. I was impressed by the place, the only this is that a lot of them acted "professional" but since they were working I expected it.

PIT

[QUOTE=PassinThrough]Doctor,

It was late on a Friday night/Saturday morning, the disco was so packed you could not get within about 15 feet of the bar and if you were at the bar you could not move. There were at least a couple hundred people in the Disco and most of them were women. All the tables were packed and the bar downstairs was also crowded. It was so crowded that a lot of girls were sitting in the casino so they could get a drink. My guess of a couple hundred seems right to me. As for the quality, they were all pretty hot, I doubt there were many over 26 and I didn't see any I would consider fat or ugly. I was impressed by the place, the only this is that a lot of them acted "professional" but since they were working I expected it.

PIT[/QUOTE]

I'll take your word for it PT, I've just never personally seen more than 100-120 people in there at one time in the disco area (don't count the rest) of which the quality usually was mostly 7-8s and a sprinkling of 9s. Somehow I can't visualise a few hundred people in that relatively small disco/bar area.... but if it was standing room only and the crowd spilled out into the casino and the sports bar, the numbers could very well be accurate.

It's university starting up again, so maybe some students are back from summer holidays and need some cash...

I don't doubt your report, just wish I had been there... :)

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Nice report, glad you at least enjoyed the women.

A couple of hundred girls in the 8-10 range? Maybe a bit of an exaggeration? Were you flying high on a crack-XTC cocktail? :) ... but I think 50 girls ranging from 6-9 was probably more like it... :)[/QUOTE]
Go easy on him, Herr Doktor, for those of us who don't get out as much as you do, ANY girl in a mini-skirt or thigh-high leather boots looks like an 8!! Especially if she looks like she is available!!!!!!!!

GT

I have recently encountered a little problem here in Kiev for the first time. The last three p4p's I had all refused my kind offer of DATY! Now the first was a regular out of RP and she claimed to be using Pharmatex, so she said 'not nice taste for you!' but the other two just said 'No I don't like' and this was immediately I started to head in that direction. I was just wondering if any other members have encountered the same problem recently here in Kiev.

[QUOTE=PassinThrough]

I had some problems.

In Kiev I met MT kissing all night until the next morning.

The next night River Palace had a couple hundred girls all 8, 9 or 10 so I went home alone.

Then I got pretty sick and spent the next two days in bed trying to get over what ever I had.

[/QUOTE]

A night spent kissing the Tramp, and then getting sick?

Well, that's just preposterous. Ukrainian prostitutes are practically fanatical about their oral hygeine.

Come to think of it, why in heaven wouldn't anyone want to kiss her all night, she certainly hasn't had more than a few million filthy mongers blow loads of putrid splooge in her gaping pie hole or anything.

Other than Moldovan outdoor toilets, what could possibly be more appealing?

[QUOTE=PassinThrough]Sorry for the delays in posting this, I had some computer problems.

I had arranged to meet MT that night. She came over around 11:00 PM and was better looking than I was expecting, she was also very friendly. When she came in the door she immediately gave me a great big hug and kiss. We chatted for a few minutes then ran out to get some drinks and a little food. When we got back to the apartment she was very horny and started kissing and using my hands to fondle her. After a few minutes she stuck my hands down her pants to feel how hot and wet she was. After some preliminary making she started with a BBBJ which moved into sex on the couch. Finally we moved into the bedroom where we had a great time before going to sleep. She stayed until about 10:30 the next morning with an early morning wake up session. I would definitely recommend her.


I want to thank Irish for helping me out when I was sick. He is a great guy.

PIT[/QUOTE]

Welcome to the MT Club! Even if Bez do not like her anymore.... (PS Irish and I have also different girls stories, he is very helpful).

Just for knowing news on our little Sex Icon: did you phone her? What was her $$$ request... and did you have enough vodka to get her wild...? :D

IT

I was at RP Saturday night and it blew. 60% girls 40% guys. Mostly 5,6 and 7's. Don't remember seeing a mythical 10 or a 9.

The hot p4p girls are usually at Arena and Decadance on Friday-Saturday night.

I still have the get in free ticket for Monday night if anyone wants a dig pic as proof.

I was last month in Kiev for business, first night I try MARINA from gia.

She was my worst girl in a long time, I do not know wet it going on wit gia, I use to find there good sexy girls, gia was my best but not this time, she let me do any thing , but she was cold like ice, only lookt of me and smile’s, but she was not working any thing, after 2 hoers I send her home, I will never take her.

Second night I cold up this beautiful sexy girl Mystery Tramp, (get her # from It Travel), she told me she will come to me after 2:00 am, but only for 300 USD, she told me she need the money and for less she will not come over, I really wont to try her, so I sed ok. I call her allot of times and she was by my hotel room at 3:00 am,

She ask me how I get her, I told her from a fraud of this buird “ISG”, she told me she do not know the guide! and won I told her beautiful pic. is all over, she was angry.

I had a wonderful time wit her, she is a hot girl like fire, she is beautiful, she is sexy, she is also smart like hell, and reel funny, she is wrote every dollar, she kiss me, huge’, and sucks like the best lover I ever see, I fill like she reel love me, and like me dick.

Won I first fill her pussy wit me hands it was all reedy wet from com, won i lick it, she put my tung on the exact pleases by her clit, and she making noise like I never know before, she skrimet to me so sexy, and she toke my pines and do every thing to this hard dick, she is the girl i wont to have sex.

Won I wont to fuck her, she told me she do not bring condoms, but she call the door man from the hotel and ask him to bring a pack of condom, won the door man come back she was a naked animal on me sucking my hard pines, but she get off grab my shirt on her, rush to the door and picket up the condoms, she told me: “i like your shirt”.

We have sex alot of time, 5 or 6 times, till 7 am in the mooring and I rush to borispol to my plan.

She is beautiful, blond, and every thing for me, I will pay 300 to be wit her again.

And thanks you It Travel for her digit’s.

her555

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

I was lest mont in kiev for business, first night I try MARINA from gia.

She was my worst girl in a long time, I do not know wet it going on with gia, I use to find there good sexy girls, gia was my best but not this time, she let me do any thing, but she was cold like ice, only lookt of me and smile’s, but she was not working any thing, after 2 hoers I send her home, I will never take her.

Second night I cold up this beautiful sexy girl Mystery Tramp, (get her # from It Travel), she told me she will come to me after 2:00 am, but only for 300 USD, she told me she need the money and for less she will not come over, I really won't to try her, so I sed ok. I call her allot of times and she was by my hotel room at 3:00 am,

She ask me how I get her, I told her from a fraud of this buird "ISG", she told me she do not know the guide! And won I told her beautiful pic. Is all over, she was angry.

I had a wonderful time with her, she is a hot girl like fire, she is beautiful, she is sexy, she is also smart like hell, and reel funny, she is wrote every dollar, she kiss me, huge’, and sucks like the best lover I ever see, I fill like she reel love me, and like me dick.

Won I first fill her pussy with me hands it was all reedy wet from com, won I lick it, she put my tung on the exact pleases by her clit, and she making noise like I never know before, she skrimet to me so sexy, and she toke my pines and do every thing to this hard dick, she is the girl I won't to have sex.

Won I won't to fuck her, she told me she do not bring condoms, but she call the door man from the hotel and ask him to bring a pack of condom, won the door man come back she was a naked animal on me sucking my hard pines, but she get off grab my shirt on her, rush to the door and picket up the condoms, she told me: "i like your shirt".

We have sex alot of time, 5 or 6 times, till 7 am in the mooring and I rush to borispol to my plan.

She is beautiful, blond, and every thing for me, I will pay 300 to be with her again.

And thanks you It Travel for her digit’s.

Her555

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

Hey Bill, I don't know of any free ones, but I use bulksms.com, go to US site and its really cheap. No number for deyva to bug you back on this way
Cap


[QUOTE=Chill Bill]Anyone know of any Internet sites that allow for free SMS messages to Ukraine cell phones?[/QUOTE]

Great report 555.

Did she do BBBJ?

555, have you thought about going to Minsk instead of Kiev? How about Moscow?

1) MT wasn't worth $300 when she was brand new to the biz 4-5 years ago. Paying $300 for her now is like paying top dollar for a ten year old car that has about a million miles on it.

2) Telling her about ISG and that she was on ISG was pretty stupid. I tried to think of a diplomatic way to say it, but there really isn't.

[QUOTE=Her555]
Won I first fill her pussy with me hands it was all reedy wet from com, won I lick it, she put my tung on the exact pleases by her clit, and she making noise like I never know before, she skrimet to me so sexy, and she toke my pines and do every thing to this hard dick, she is the girl I won't to have sex.

Won I won't to fuck her, she told me she do not bring condoms, but she call the door man from the hotel and ask him to bring a pack of condom, [/QUOTE]

Why bother with a condom? You have already exposed yourself to all her microbiotic charms.

I know "different strokes for different folks" but I really cannot understand guys who do DATY on hard core pros. I admit that I do not know the medical side of the risk, but even the concept of eating out a passage so well travelled turns my stomache!

I have no carnal knowledge of the young lady in question, but given the countless miles of high-risk usage this courtesan has endured, I would not touch her without the benefit of a bio-hazard suit!

GT,

I am not at all sure what this obsession is with Mystery Tramp. I guess the only reason it remains such a topic is that IT has a thing for her. Leave it to him to scream about his love for teens and then have a thing for a 20-something has-been. As 555 says, he was put in touch with her by IT.

There are so many other ladies, pros, semi-pros and just your ordinary dev in the street, that anyone who needs or obsesses about Mystery Tramp is a loser. Her time is long past. While I did enjoy her way back when she first started, that was it.

Today I would not even touch her. There are too many devs out there and too little time that I want to spend my time sampling the best there is and not anything that is used up and likely disease-ridden.

Guys, I have traveled the world and lived in eastern Europe so I don't necessarily call anything in a miniskirt a 9 :-) I did find that the typical Ukrainian features are what I consider desirable so that may skew my perceptions some. I did enjoy that the women are taller than in many countries (asia) and generally have a fuller figure. When I say there were mainly 8, 9 and a few 10's that is based on my taste alone.

As for getting sick it had nothing to do with MT. I think what happened is that I was stupid and did not drink enough non alcoholic liquid and gove overly dehydrated. I know the symptoms and I am sure that is what it was. Luckily Irish helped me out and I was much better a couple days later.

As for MT, she is a very nice girl and definately does BBBJ. She asked how I heard of her and I did not mention ISG. I have found it scares the girls and can cause problems for the person who made the recommendation. I just say a friend names "John" from <pick a western country> gave me your number. I also say "He probably used a fake name when he met you" and I describe a general person that matches 80% of the western world, then I move the conversation along to another subject. It works well and doesn't cause problems. I asked about pictures but she said no, and I respect that and didn't push it.

PIT <Not PIG>

[QUOTE=Her555]

I ass infextion thing, but she anal, after 2 hore I take the Mystery Tramp from It Travel for 300 USD

she need the money for shit lot of times

She ask me I told her of this "ISG" guide!

I told her pic all over.

I had a sore, she also smel funny,

every dollar she kiss and suck like dick.

I fist her pussy
the hand all red from com
I lick my tung on the ass without condoms,
to do animal sucking sex 6 times till I rush to borispo,

I will pay 300 to beg her

I certainly hope the author will post this in Reports of stinc.

Please

[/QUOTE]

I like his style.

[QUOTE=PassinThrough]Guys, I have traveled the world and lived in eastern Europe so I don't necessarily call anything in a miniskirt a 9 :-) I did find that the typical Ukrainian features are what I consider desirable so that may skew my perceptions some. I did enjoy that the women are taller than in many countries (asia) and generally have a fuller figure. When I say there were mainly 8, 9 and a few 10's that is based on my taste alone.

As for getting sick it had nothing to do with MT. I think what happened is that I was stupid and did not drink enough non alcoholic liquid and gove overly dehydrated. I know the symptoms and I am sure that is what it was. Luckily Irish helped me out and I was much better a couple days later.

As for MT, she is a very nice girl and definately does BBBJ. She asked how I heard of her and I did not mention ISG. I have found it scares the girls and can cause problems for the person who made the recommendation. I just say a friend names "John" from <pick a western country> gave me your number. I also say "He probably used a fake name when he met you" and I describe a general person that matches 80% of the western world, then I move the conversation along to another subject. It works well and doesn't cause problems. I asked about pictures but she said no, and I respect that and didn't push it.

PIT <Not PIG>[/QUOTE]


Some stupid has shown her ISG or at least my pict with the open and drippy ****! So she do not wnat any more pics... (a pity)

But again welcome in the club...

IT

[quote=uke boy]gt,

i am not at all sure what this obsession is with mystery tramp. i guess the only reason it remains such a topic is that it has a thing for her. leave it to him to scream about his love for teens and then have a thing for a 20-something has-been. as 555 says, he was put in touch with her by it.

there are so many other ladies, pros, semi-pros and just your ordinary dev in the street, that anyone who needs or obsesses about mystery tramp is a loser. her time is long past. while i did enjoy her way back when she first started, that was it.

today i would not even touch her. there are too many devs out there and too little time that i want to spend my time sampling the best there is and not anything that is used up and likely disease-ridden.[/quote]


you are right: there is something with this girl... and with [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url] too... both skinny, nearly no tits, not beauties, but nice... perhaps a 6.5-7 in a normal rating when well dessed and good make-up.

it's the use of the mouth making the difference! ball tongue treatment, licking, bbbj and cim (some cof and swallowing too, depends on vodka for mt) are at least 9.5 in both girls! and this is far more important for me... i just want pigs in my bed... if two or three it's even better :d

yulia at gia is a differnt type, surely not a beauty (5 or so), but obedient, soft, d cup, large sensitive nipples, her skin is as silk, and she was doing exceptional bbbj + cim + cof (with a good titfuck) and i managed even a dtci (deep throat cum injection, where she must have been swallowing at least a part! exactly as mt and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url]).

it


ps
as you understood i give importance to:

anal
bbbj + cim or cof and swallowing
real hard cow girl ride (both holes)
and then normal sex (sometimes really boring), better to be fucked by a pro cow girl in a hole with a vibrating dildo in the other! (changing hole from time to time).

[QUOTE=Her555]I was lest mont in kiev for business, first night I try MARINA from gia.

She was my worst girl in a long time, I do not know wet it going on with gia, I use to find there good sexy girls, gia was my best but not this time, she let me do any thing, but she was cold like ice, only lookt of me and smile’s, but she was not working any thing, after 2 hoers I send her home, I will never take her.

Second night I cold up this beautiful sexy girl Mystery Tramp, (get her # from It Travel), she told me she will come to me after 2:00 am, but only for 300 USD, she told me she need the money and for less she will not come over, I really won't to try her, so I sed ok. I call her allot of times and she was by my hotel room at 3:00 am,

She ask me how I get her, I told her from a fraud of this buird "ISG", she told me she do not know the guide! And won I told her beautiful pic. Is all over, she was angry.

I had a wonderful time with her, she is a hot girl like fire, she is beautiful, she is sexy, she is also smart like hell, and reel funny, she is wrote every dollar, she kiss me, huge’, and sucks like the best lover I ever see, I fill like she reel love me, and like me dick.

Won I first fill her pussy with me hands it was all reedy wet from com, won I lick it, she put my tung on the exact pleases by her clit, and she making noise like I never know before, she skrimet to me so sexy, and she toke my pines and do every thing to this hard dick, she is the girl I won't to have sex.

Won I won't to fuck her, she told me she do not bring condoms, but she call the door man from the hotel and ask him to bring a pack of condom, won the door man come back she was a naked animal on me sucking my hard pines, but she get off grab my shirt on her, rush to the door and picket up the condoms, she told me: "i like your shirt".

We have sex alot of time, 5 or 6 times, till 7 am in the mooring and I rush to borispol to my plan.

She is beautiful, blond, and every thing for me, I will pay 300 to be with her again.

And thanks you It Travel for her digit’s.

Her555

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size][/QUOTE]

Sorry but this was really stupid... so now she might think you got the number from me or from Doc Skank (he filmed her too doing BBBJ)...

Now if I wanted to film or photo her with a beautiful Cum Shot on the face, or with an erected clito?

I'm very angry :( :(

IT

Hi,

I will be in Kiev the weekend of 28th-30th of September. If you guys have any interesting contact info to share, don't hesitate to PM me. This time I unfortunately don't have much time to find freebees.

Bas

[QUOTE=It Travel]Some stupid has shown her ISG or at least my pict with the open and drippy ****! So she do not wnat any more pics... (a pity)

But again welcome in the club...

IT[/QUOTE]

And people wonder why I dont post pics as often anymore or hide the girls faces in the pictures I do post. Showing ISG to girls is just stupid, especially the photo gallery!

... not that I feel guilty about MT, though. She's so off the hook skanky I really don't think she needs to worry about her reputation... and with the amount of "work" she gets, especially when guys are paying $300, she should be quite well off by now. So no, no guilt there. She's not a poor student earning some cash on the side to help her sick grandmother. She's a professional *****. Maybe she should have tried doing porn.

Wouldn't doubt it though if she blows all of her "hard-earned" money on coke and Pokemon cards. She's truly a loon, a ditz and a skank. Either that, or she's a genius and has saved up $400,000 already, is just waiting for the right time to sell her GazProm stock and is keeping the Porsche Cayman in the garage until summer.

One thing is for sure though, I've rarely met a girl that loved sucking cock as much as she did... she just couldn't keep her hands, mouth, lips and tongue off of it.

Damn you Bez, you started this. It's your frickin' responsibility and you frickin' know it. You created a monster.

Reading through the various comments about MT it does seem as if a lot of you guys are missing the point about this girl. Here we have someone who has been on the road for 4 to 5 years and is still performing like an enthusiastic sex queen. Not for her the jaded, cynical attitude of a hard core professional, this girl knows how to please and reading the reports of those who have tried her she is as good at it as ever.
I saw her a couple of weeks back and she looked healthy,horny and young. She may not be the most beautiful chick in Kiev and yes she is on the slim side, but when she's in your bed you're on a one way trip to paradise. Those of you who write so harshly of her after having enjoyed her services are displaying a chauvinistic attitude more fitting to the last century.
Lets be really honest here guys, when you are out in Kiev at night having a few beers and your thoughts turn to getting laid what is it you really want? Is it a deeply meaningful experience with a possible future soul mate, or is it a night of crazy lust with some horny little babe who is going to f*** your brains out and suck you dry whilst doing it.
I rest my case
Long live MT queen of the Kiev p4p's









[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]And people wonder why I dont post pics as often anymore or hide the girls faces in the pictures I do post. Showing ISG to girls is just stupid, especially the photo gallery!

... not that I feel guilty about MT, though. She's so off the hook skanky I really don't think she needs to worry about her reputation... and with the amount of "work" she gets, especially when guys are paying $300, she should be quite well off by now. So no, no guilt there. She's not a poor student earning some cash on the side to help her sick grandmother. She's a professional *****. Maybe she should have tried doing porn.

Wouldn't doubt it though if she blows all of her "hard-earned" money on coke and Pokemon cards. She's truly a loon, a ditz and a skank. Either that, or she's a genius and has saved up $400,000 already, is just waiting for the right time to sell her GazProm stock and is keeping the Porsche Cayman in the garage until summer.

One thing is for sure though, I've rarely met a girl that loved sucking cock as much as she did... she just couldn't keep her hands, mouth, lips and tongue off of it.

Damn you Bez, you started this. It's your frickin' responsibility and you frickin' know it. You created a monster.[/QUOTE]

I tend to respect all the girls I have been with unless they do something to change it. Taking money for sex does not count as something that would change my respect, after all I am the one paying for it and I certainly respect myself.

I like MT because she seemed genuinely nice and friendly. She was affectionate and enjoyed my company as much as I did hers. She didn't watch the clock or seem bored when we talked and the sex was very good. She seemed to enjoy it as much as I did, initiating it on more than one occasion. I am sure it was an act, at least some part of it, but I don't care. She tried more than most other girls and I appreciate that. I will definitely see her again

Now why the hell someone would tell a girl she is on ISG or show it to her is beyond me. Do they think the girl with thank them? Maybe she will appreciate it and give them better sex? What idiots. The girl will not be happy, she will be upset or angry and will probably take it out on the person she is with. Let's keep the forum private and not spoil it.

PIT

I think some of you MT defenders are missing the point. There are a few thousand girls in Kiev fresher and better looking then MT willing to rock your world for less then $300. I and some others just can not understand the fixation on MT. Personally I still have never had bad sex in Kiev. Wether it was with some ho I picked up in Victory Square or with a local offical's prim and proper daughter. Every girl was a red diploma graduate of cock sucking university.

I had MT first night first time in Kiev, first time in RP. And as the good Dr says she just loves sucking cock. She was very normal and the typical girl with me. She just gave me a line about her boyfriend being hooked on crack or coke and what she has a kid or something like that. I saw her a few times in RP after that - always seemed normal. She must have been tripping when you interacted with her Dr - you really think she collects Pokemon card? ;)

Considering her lenght in the business and her love of unprotected (oral) sex I would stay far far far far away from her. Oral contact is a good way to get Hep, Herp and HPV.

[QUOTE=Tremayne]Reading through the various comments about MT it does seem as if a lot of you guys are missing the point about this girl. Here we have someone who has been on the road for 4 to 5 years and is still performing like an enthusiastic sex queen. [/QUOTE]

MT crew:

Don't misunderstand, MT was great and I am happy she is still putting out great performance for guys out there. If guys wanna "join the club" feel free. It's not exactly an exclusive one... :)

It's just hard for us guys that banged her silly 4 years ago for $100 to fathom dropping $300 now... especially when $300 will get you ANY girl in RP if you were keen on spending that much.... or even two at the same time.

MT has a great attitude and is a great fuck, no doubt about it. I'll never forget the night we spent together, very memorable in MANY ways.

But $300 for MT? Sorry, not for me.

And as for her being a loony ditz... she is. That's a good quality in a ho though... :)

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]I and some others just can not understand the fixation on MT. Personally I still have never had bad sex in Kiev. Wether it was with some ho I picked up in Victory Square or with a local offical's prim and proper daughter. Every girl was a red diploma graduate of cock sucking university.
.[/QUOTE]

Spoken for truth... even though I find their Russian cousins even more sex-crazed and cock-happy. Russians have NO religious/morality issues... whereas sometimes you do run into Ukrainian women that seem a bit uptight. Funny how that changes once the drawers come off...

I didn't make it to the MT club. Not for that kind of scratch. I had a girl hit me up for 200 my last night at RP, and I was joking around saying "Aren't you supposed to say $300?" She laughed and said don't tell anyone. lol.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]MT crew:

Don't misunderstand, MT was great and I am happy she is still putting out great performance for guys out there. If guys wanna "join the club" feel free. It's not exactly an exclusive one... :)

It's just hard for us guys that banged her silly 4 years ago for $100 to fathom dropping $300 now... especially when $300 will get you ANY girl in RP if you were keen on spending that much.... or even two at the same time.

MT has a great attitude and is a great fuck, no doubt about it. I'll never forget the night we spent together, very memorable in MANY ways.

But $300 for MT? Sorry, not for me.

And as for her being a loony ditz... she is. That's a good quality in a ho though... :)



Spoken for truth... even though I find their Russian cousins even more sex-crazed and cock-happy. Russians have NO religious/morality issues... whereas sometimes you do run into Ukrainian women that seem a bit uptight. Funny how that changes once the drawers come off...[/QUOTE]

The good doctor is mostly correct 99% of the time as usual....

$300 for MT? Are you nutz? You can go to RP late one evening (say 3am) and find something WAY better looking for half that (having seen pictures, thanks IT). Shhh I bumped onto part-time party girl and she wanted $150 and was better looking and I'm sure we could have spent a day or two together NO EXTRA CHARGE if I picked up the tap for lunch, dinner and breakfast...

I was on vacation, many of you are their for business and your time is limited. So I can understand going for the [i]sure thing[/i]. But as is often said here, you should considering taking an RP 6 or 7 and getting 9-10 quality sex instead of a 9-10 and getting 5-6 quality sex, the choice is yours...

And I got "freebie sex" on top that, though it was restricted and actually not free when you add in the cost of traveling to Kiev from Germany...

Learning all the time....

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Either that, or she's a genius and has saved up $400,000 already, is just waiting for the right time to sell her GazProm stock and is keeping the Porsche Cayman in the garage until summer.
[/QUOTE]

It's quite an interesting question really - what do they do with all that cash? When you're earning around 50 times the Kiev average, it can't all be to help the sick grandmother etc. etc.

There's an RP girl (Natalya, early 30s, tall & blonde, say 7ish/10) who told me she originally went into the business after she got divorced and was desparate for some male company ;) She used the cash to buy a number of apartments in Kiev for between $10-20K each, back in 2003. I'd say she's made 10-15 times her money. And she STILL works at RP.

Although even the $300 girls will struggle to buy a pad in the capital nowadays..

did not think to see so much debat!

but in one word putting your cock in mt's mouth it's different (still awarding shots on my shot award card... you knw a frequent f(ucker) program :) :) ).

i'm always in the same position...

[quote=dj fourmoney]$300 for mt? are you nutz? you can go to rp late one evening (say 3am) and find something way better looking for half that (having seen pictures, thanks it). shhh i bumped onto part-time party girl and she wanted $150 and was better looking and i'm sure we could have spent a day or two together no extra charge if i picked up the tap for lunch, dinner and breakfast....[/quote]

at 3 am i am already sleeping... and again... why are you concentrated so much on looking of girls? do you need to appoint medals on your condom? (sorry fourmoney, it's not for you!), or what? i need a nice girl (behaving... mt at home she is eating with hands, but ok :( ), good (estetichs) and a pig (in bed)... i think mt is this... and it's all.. she is one of the sex icons here... i do not feel any problem... i got laid with other girls at rp at 11 pm for 200-250 and getting logs in my bed, i'm not interested in logs, i'm interested in pigs. it's not a matter of $$$.

doc, who is much more experienced find them for free, i've found one ... u... irish lad knows... and one for $$$ ([url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url] $$$, irish knows her too, but she is not avaliable), is not paying nearly at all.. right?

so when i get to kiev and perhaps have two free evenings, i'll go for sure.... no logs, only pigs.... by the way who is reading and signing the papers at 9.00 am in the office? me... so...

it


guys... a good discussion item: when i'm in ee i'm fucking every night, how hell can you work in the day??? if you go out from rp at 3.00??? fucking is not just putting your cock in her pusy for 20 minutes! and if you stay there a week how hell do you work??

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]MT crew:

It's just hard for us guys that banged her silly 4 years ago for $100 to fathom dropping $300 now... especially when $300 will get you ANY girl in RP if you were keen on spending that much.... or even two at the same time.

...[/QUOTE]


I understand Doc... all... but whe you see her samiling face, just opening your levis 501, button by button, and.... don't leave your fresh and hard meat until it's finished.... You are very HAPPY!


By the way in the last 5 years a restaurant in Kiev have gone up more than 2,5-3 times so....

IT

[QUOTE=Tremayne]Reading through the various comments about MT it does seem as if a lot of you guys are missing the point about this girl. Here we have someone who has been on the road for 4 to 5 years and is still performing like an enthusiastic sex queen. Not for her the jaded, cynical attitude of a hard core professional, this girl knows how to please and reading the reports of those who have tried her she is as good at it as ever.
I saw her a couple of weeks back and she looked healthy,horny and young. She may not be the most beautiful chick in Kiev and yes she is on the slim side, but when she's in your bed you're on a one way trip to paradise. Those of you who write so harshly of her after having enjoyed her services are displaying a chauvinistic attitude more fitting to the last century.
Lets be really honest here guys, when you are out in Kiev at night having a few beers and your thoughts turn to getting laid what is it you really want? Is it a deeply meaningful experience with a possible future soul mate, or is it a night of crazy lust with some horny little babe who is going to f*** your brains out and suck you dry whilst doing it.
I rest my case
Long live MT queen of the Kiev p4p's[/QUOTE]


I think I nearly completely agree with you... I'm always looking on this timetables like 3... 4 am, and then a lot of sex, and then to work... usually I'm at work between 7.30 and 8.00... how hell you can do a lot of sex??? That is the reason I like girls at 6.00 pm!

IT

How does a first-time visitor find the brothels and sex apartments in Kiev? I assume they have to be there.

I am a guy in his 60s. When I go to Buenos Aires or Prague, I concentrate on finding apartments or small brothels that might have 3 to 10 girls working at a time. I especially like mornings. The last thing I want to do is look for a companion in a noisy club at 3:00 in the morning. I speak no Russian or Ukrainian.- this is a once-in-a-lifetime trip.

I like to go to a place that is trying to keep up its reputation by providing quality service. In many cases, especially in Buenos Aires, I find that the apartments servicing locals are the best. Many of the women in these places are as attractive or more attractive than the expensive ones in clubs.

How do I find this kind of place in Kiev?

In regards to bottle service in regular night clubs in Kiev.

I can tell in Odessa in the summer of 2007 you could get a medium sized bottle of local vodka for $30-40 at the club called Ibiza. It is on average 8 times more expensive to get a bottle service in Manhattan, NY where I reside. Rum and Coke cost 25 = $5 in Ibiza. I also heard mixed drinks in Kiev cost about $10-12 and taste like crap.

What are the prices for a bottle at a high-end club/lounge in Kiev at the moment, and how hard is it to get a table? thanks.

Sean,

Reserving a table at Arena or Decadence will cost $300, which is the miniumum spend for the night. This is ideal for 2 guys + 2 girls.

Although a bottle of Moet & Chandon costs $160 at Arena, so drinking this will take you up to your limit a lot quicker :)

Ah for those of you who think the Cruiser crushes Kiev like the juggernaut of a drunk Ukrainian engineer at the controls of the express train to Lugansk – do I have a report for you.

The day had started innocently enough. I had three dates – 1200, 1500 and 1700. All three girls were charming but only one really held my interest. I finished my 1700 date at 1900 and headed back to my place for a little nap. I had planned a night with my druges (yes, Bez?). At 2200 we meet at one of my favorite strip clubs in Kiev (name withheld to protect the innocent). One of my buddies had a somewhat attracted but very poorly dressed 24 year old in tow. He told me he had tried to brush her off by ‘shocking’ her by inviting her to a strip club – much to his surprise she accepted. The club was nice but I just wasn’t feeling the love. The only girls I was interested in I had already become very friendly with in prior engagements, so there was no need to go back there. There was one little cute redhead I remember from last winter (she didn’t remember me –egads!). But she turned out to be quite the blood sucker (which I vaguely remember from last winter) first it was private dance (150uah) – het, then it was buy me sushi – I told her I was leaving soon with my droug (Yes, Bez?) to go to Decadance. She said I can come with you to Decadance – I had an idea where this was leading but played along. I said, don’t you have to stay and work at the club? She said no, I can go with you to Decadance till 0200. I said, uh huh – how much is it going to cost? 200e she said. Uh het I said. She then countered with maybe I go back to your hotel instead. Uh het I said. She sat there uncomfortable for a minute or two and then said, may I go? Uh Da I said. In my prior two trips to this club I had pulled girls ridiculously easy. Total cost had been two bottles of coke, a bag of M&Ms and taxi fare for one and two Orange Juices and taxi fare for the other. Now my mojo had obviously fled the building, fled Kiev, fled Ukraine had taken the red eye and was probably waiting for me at home in Boston. Little did I know this was probably going to be my most enjoyable event of the evening.

Off to Decadance – we leave the strip club and I notice a lot of very attractive girls headed to Azure. I mention to my buddy, you sure you want to go to Decadance? I see a lot of hot girls headed to Azure. He say, yeah lets go to Decadance. Uh Da I say. We get to Decadance and there is some kind of pile up at the cheesy cashiers stool and table (umm, not very upscale at all). Either the girl can’t count or the four people ahead of us are trying to pay in Soviet script. I pay my 150uah (private dance at strip club, half a sucky fucky at a $60 apartment) and head up to the dumpiest club I have seen in Kiev. I ask my friend, is this it? Is there an upstairs or another room? Uh Het is the answer. Good points, the paid club dancers were SMOKIN hot, you could talk over the music. Bad points, the place is a dump, the people in this supposedly upscale night club are extremely pretentious (I had already been warned about that), I went down in flames hitting on three girls. Girl 1 – no speaka the English. Girl 2 - My husband is at the bar. Girl 3 – You are standing next to my boyfriend (which I was, opps, sorry). I probably could have salvaged a little of my ego by hitting on the non super hotties that were making googly eyes at me but time to leave. My friend although amused by my antics wants to get laid, so we pull out all the stops and head to the Boat.

Das Boot! Mein Gott! Ok, now this is about to get heavy. The Boat unlike my last trip has quite a few attractive girls there. My friend heads to the bar on his Ho Jihad and I grab a table right at the edge of the dance floor amongst the hard core regular pros. One very attractive girl walks by me and I grab her by the hand and pull her down into the empty seat next to me. She is a stewardess for UAL looking to fly the friendly sky’s tonight – coffee, tea or me. We make some polite chit chat but I must have just grabbed her on the way out. We finish the conversation with a quick $200/hr. I smile and say $200 ok – but for several hours. She says she must go and that is the last I see of her. Maybe I’ll see her on the flight out of Borispol. ;).

My friend sets his sights on a hard core pro – bleach blonde – implants - **** heels and dress. He likes her because she is a great dancer. My friend tries to make eye contact with her but this girl can not take her eyes off me for reasons I will find out shortly. But anyway, for all you MT fans guess who decides to hop on the dance floor and put on a show 18” (45.72cm) away from me? You guessed it, the lovely Miss MT herself. I am fairly sure she recognized me from our meeting several years ago but unfortunately I did not have time to engage her in conversation. Now, back to the bleach blonde implant bimbo. She’s smiling and blinking and waving at me – not too odd for RP. So I finally wave her to come over to sit at my table, she comes and sits – turns out I know her from three years ago back when she used to be a semi pro – and didn’t have implants. She remembers me and that’s why she kept looking and smiling at me. I asked her why she never answered her phone when I called her and she gave me some BS story about how she gave her mobile phone to some one or some crap like that. I then ask her, hey, what’s you current number so I can update your information in my phone (not only was this girl a grade A champ at sucking cock but she gave the best massages I had ever gotten in my life). At this point the conversation really starts to get odd. She starts to tell me how she doesn’t have any money to afford a mobile phone – this of course coming from a RP pro with implants - $300 shoes and wearing a $500 dress. I told her, for a Kiev girl to not have a mobile phone, impossible! And to myself, for a RP pro not to have a mobile – no way. My interest in her is starting to waver – she was great and I would have loved to repeat (odd for me) but the crap is starting to get a little too deep. She then asks if I wouldn’t mind paying her and her friend’s bar tab – oh my little sweet Alesia – how the years ho’ing at RP have changed you. The bar tab is only 122uah so I say sure. But the damage is already done. I start thinking about the use sweet little Alesia has probably seen in the last three years – the almost surely mechanical time I am in for if I take her back to my place. Why ruin the sweet memory of a hot eager to please RP semi pro (I still have the video). It comes down to brass tacks and the sweet kiss of death is delivered to this negotiation. I utter those famous RP words, ‘How much’ and I hear back – still ringing in my ears, $300. Not even hesitating for a second or countering with $200, I simply say ‘no’ and it is done. She quickly retreats back to her table somewhat briefly stung. Chats briefly with her friend they both leave for the ladies room. She comes back briefly without her friend, palms her waitress 50uah and leaves off to her pimp/boyfriend or next client of the night. Luckily her friend was still sitting at her table 3 meters away when I left with Oksana 40 minutes later.

Brandon, looks like you left a week too soon. :)

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Ah for those of you who think the Cruiser crushes Kiev like the juggernaut of a drunk Ukrainian engineer at the controls of the express train to Lugansk – do I have a report for you.


My friend sets his sights on a hard core pro – bleach blonde – implants - **** heels and dress. He likes her because she is a great dancer. My friend tries to make eye contact with her but this girl can not take her eyes off me for reasons I will find out shortly. But anyway, for all you MT fans guess who decides to hop on the dance floor and put on a show 18” (45.72cm) away from me? You guessed it, the lovely Miss MT herself. I am fairly sure she recognized me from our meeting several years ago but unfortunately I did not have time to engage her in conversation. Now, back to the bleach blonde implant bimbo. She’s smiling and blinking and waving at me – not too odd for RP. So I finally wave her to come over to sit at my table, she comes and sits – turns out I know her from three years ago back when she used to be a semi pro – and didn’t have implants. She remembers me and that’s why she kept looking and smiling at me. I asked her why she never answered her phone when I called her and she gave me some BS story about how she gave her mobile phone to some one or some crap like that. I then ask her, hey, what’s you current number so I can update your information in my phone (not only was this girl a grade A champ at sucking cock but she gave the best massages I had ever gotten in my life). At this point the conversation really starts to get odd. She starts to tell me how she doesn’t have any money to afford a mobile phone – this of course coming from a RP pro with implants - $300 shoes and wearing a $500 dress. I told her, for a Kiev girl to not have a mobile phone, impossible! And to myself, for a RP pro not to have a mobile – no way. My interest in her is starting to waver – she was great and I would have loved to repeat (odd for me) but the crap is starting to get a little too deep. She then asks if I wouldn’t mind paying her and her friend’s bar tab – oh my little sweet Alesia – how the years ho’ing at RP have changed you. The bar tab is only 122uah so I say sure. But the damage is already done. I start thinking about the use sweet little Alesia has probably seen in the last three years – the almost surely mechanical time I am in for if I take her back to my place. Why ruin the sweet memory of a hot eager to please RP semi pro (I still have the video). It comes down to brass tacks and the sweet kiss of death is delivered to this negotiation. I utter those famous RP words, ‘How much’ and I hear back – still ringing in my ears, $300. Not even hesitating for a second or countering with $200, I simply say ‘no’ and it is done. She quickly retreats back to her table somewhat briefly stung. Chats briefly with her friend they both leave for the ladies room. She comes back briefly without her friend, palms her waitress 50uah and leaves off to her pimp/boyfriend or next client of the night. Luckily her friend was still sitting at her table 3 meters away when I left with Oksana 40 minutes later.

Brandon, looks like you left a week too soon. :)[/QUOTE]


Another MT Fan!

I'll be nack in UA soon and I think I'll nail this girl to death (once more) in every hole....


In EE ISG people there will be a question always... "did you fuck MT?"

Most of the real seniors her did so....

IT

IT..I mentioned MT in two sentences.

I saw her last night at the Boat - I didn't have time to talk to her.

Yes I did use her services a few years ago.

And no, I'm not a fan.

Hi every one,

I apologias for any one I do soomting wrong, speselley for it itavel, for giving out the ISG for MT,

She start to ask me qusens one the phone, how do I know her, I fill she do not trust me, and mabey she will not come to me, so I told her from ISG, sorry I do not know it is a bed thing (I am not very formally with all the rules),

For all critics, I will Tel, I am a business man, I ken not come to Kiev only for pleasure, and wen I am in Kiev I do not have the time to run to clubs and RP 3 or 4 hoers and find a good girl for me, I also do not speak Ukraine, so I can not start a cunveshson with a girl on the street, so I only can find a girl from the web, or start a conversion with a Ukraine man (in my hotel or restraint) and the shad bring me a girl wot I like.

Now, I all reedy do this allot of tims, I never find a good girl for me if I go on this way, mabey some time but I do not have the time to play, I ask for a blond, yes I received a blond, but she was not hot, I ask for 150 USD the bring me a girl for 150 but not hot and sexy, I am running around be the day for business, and by night I need a blond, slim, hot, sexy pig, to have sex 4 of 5 tims, I can not settle for less, I need a girl, today for the night, so I try the only reliable agency "gia".

Abut the pries: sorry for all Ukrainian people, if I need a blond slim sexy pig, and I know she will do for me reel hot sex I will pay her 300 $.

Maybe you have the time and the way how to find for less, I do not have the time, but still I need this kind of girl, so wot shed I do?

And abut the health from MT, I do not see a different from MT and any girl from GIA or a other girl advertising on the net. (did you rely thing you or the only girl to have sex with the girl in RP) any girl of the net have sex with a other man 2 0r 3 time s wook, so MT is health like any RP girl, and have sex like any RP or GIA girl, the girls in Kiev looking to make money from sex if the need allot money the will have sex allot with different people.

You shed get it: I pay 300 $ for MT because she do a perfect job. I am a lot in Ukraine, meet allot of girl, but never find a good pig like MT, and any one if the give me a girl like MT I will pay her also, it is not so ofen to find this dind of girl, not allot girls have there good techniques like MT, can any one compare a other girl to her?

I thing you get the point, so I am finish with this

555

No Ash, the ideal is you and 2-3 girls. :)

Decadance is a dump and Arena was much better before the remodel. I guess I'll have to give Tsar a chance.

[QUOTE=Ash1001]
Reserving a table at Arena or Decadence will cost $300, which is the miniumum spend for the night. This is ideal for 2 guys + 2 girls.
[/QUOTE]

Sure, have all the fun after I leave, Cruiser. I'd go back to Arena, assuming there might be more than 8 people in the place.

We had a crew of about 7 people in Carribbean one night, pretty early. Every single table had a reserved sign. When we asked about getting one table, the bartender decided that we could sit down only if we committed to spending $1000 or more that night. Now what sort of tool would come up with that policy? Why, a Ukrainian bartender of course. What if we agreed, and then left after 2 drinks?

[QUOTE=Brandon88]We had a crew of about 7 people in Carribbean one night, pretty early. Every single table had a reserved sign. When we asked about getting one table, the bartender decided that we could sit down only if we committed to spending $1000 or more that night. Now what sort of tool would come up with that policy? Why, a Ukrainian bartender of course. What if we agreed, and then left after 2 drinks?[/QUOTE]Most of the clubs have policies like these and I'm not against them in fact. Azur has tables running up to $200 but seats 8 people so $25 a head is not much. Patipa does the same for the private rooms but at weekends they vary the rules and a "fruit platter" must be included in your bill for example.

$1,000 for a table in Caribbean ([url]http://caribbean.com.ua/en/[/url]) seems wrong or a mistake on the waiters part. I was there in July on a Saturday night with 3 others for dinner and drinks. Reserved a table, free entrance before 8pm and ate and drank until 2am for 900 hrivna ($180). The girls were light drinkers though.

When you pay a deposit for a table you can have no drinks and leave but they'll still keep the balance.

The policy is to prevent non spenders and cruisers (no pun intended) from using up space.

IL

Tsar is by far the best club in Kiev at the moment in terms of quality of clientele and quality of music. Finally after 4 visits I managed my first pick-up there last weekend. Since the summer is over Tsar is considerable more crowded now. I usually meet girls in less quality clubs and take them with me to Tsar. A lot of girls want to go to Tsar but afraid of the strict face control so they usually jump on the offer.

If you go to Tsar as a group consider getting a table. It costs a few hundred dollars depending on size. They open a tab for you and you don't pay for your drinks until you exceed price of the table. Your night will be much more fun and you'll be a chick magnet...

IMHO, Caribbean is waste of time. Ugly girls, lots of foreigners, too crowded, cheesy music... If you are looking a mid-market club try Ajure instead. It is in the center, very close to Caribbean, gets very crowded and there are usually lots of available girls. Music sucks unless you enjoy dancing to Bon Jovi, Opus, Roxette, etc. Quality of girls is not so high initially but gets better after 1am. There are so many girls you'll find one who derserves your attention.

[QUOTE=Her555]Hi every one,

I apologias for any one I do soomting wrong, speselley for it itavel, for giving out the ISG for MT,


Abut the pries: sorry for all Ukrainian people, if I need a blond slim sexy pig, and I know she will do for me reel hot sex I will pay her 300 $.

Maybe you have the time and the way how to find for less, I do not have the time, but still I need this kind of girl, so wot shed I do?

And abut the health from MT, I do not see a different from MT and any girl from GIA or a other girl advertising on the net. (did you rely thing you or the only girl to have sex with the girl in RP) any girl of the net have sex with a other man 2 0r 3 time s wook, so MT is health like any RP girl, and have sex like any RP or GIA girl, the girls in Kiev looking to make money from sex if the need allot money the will have sex allot with different people.

You shed get it: I pay 300 $ for MT because she do a perfect job. I am a lot in Ukraine, meet allot of girl, but never find a good pig like MT, and any one if the give me a girl like MT I will pay her also, it is not so ofen to find this dind of girl, not allot girls have there good techniques like MT, can any one compare a other girl to her?

I thing you get the point, so I am finish with this

555[/QUOTE]


I think you got the point, it's not the price but what you get for the price

I think you are wrong only in one point... MT does not 2-3 men a week! she does 2-3 a day!!!! Working in shifts, one or two for qwicies in the afternoon and then at 1 or 2 at RP...

IT

But she is still a pig

on ground of the new photo section posting rule i’m answering here to acolonizer ( [url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=647335&postcount=792[/url] ) and something he is saying seems to me really crazy.

i got most of my good bbbj + cim + cof and even swallowing just in ukraine and russia…

of course you have not to be a cheap and pretend to get a good bbbj + cim when hiring a girl for 30 minutes on the backseat of the car!

often even girls stating they do not do any bbbj or cim or whatever will do it (for the night) for 1000-2000 rur or 50 usd or so…

i can put out that most of gia girls do bbbj with cim of cof… i even did twice cof, cof on two girls at same time! really a nice thing… with irina (no more on display) putting her finger in front of the nose because on the cof before…. she got it directly in thre nose cum! unfortunately no pics allowed :(

one of the funniest was sveta, now snejana… approx 180, 68-70 kg and huge dd tits with 5 cm nipples! she seems what a real ***** should see out…
for making a long thing short… she was excited by my masturbation on the sofa (posted the pics of the dripping pussy and the wonderful erected clito). she took me to bed and just, literally, fucked me until she came very quickly (i was a little angry) so i put her down and put my cock in her mouth, un covered, for some sucking… and just some second after starting a tit fuck with those marvellous dd things. she did not realize how far i was and so she got an unexpected facial shot… just telling me i was crazy… several bbbj and cim in the night!

mystery tramp and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url] where and are giving excellent bbbj with cim, if you have feeded enough mt with vodka she will swallow all (doc knows!).
[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url] is a cum slurper… when she rises from a bbbj she look you in the eyes with the face cum dripping (or how irish…?)

same for the two sponsored girls i had in moscow, piggy no pants, a chubby joung blondinka (you have to change sometimes, not only mt style girls) was just swallowing loads (i did not even ask… ) and the first time she said “tasty!” the poor iriska got and unwanted facial-eye shot (she was expecting cim) which is still one of my best pictures! unfortunately lost her traces… the next sponsorship we agreed was including her best friend and at least one of their two little rear pink holes!

i do not see and problem in bbbj in ukraine. of course not all girls do it, but it’s more difficult to find a good anal than a good bbbj!

it

here you can see iriska
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=583250&postcount=1099[/url]

and check here too fo moscow...

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=647824&postcount=1232[/url]

ps 300 usd a mere 215 € now is a standard night fee both in kiev and in moscow for a sponsnor girl... might that for longer time, you get lower...

Over and over and over.

Again and again and again.

Same stories.

[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]Over and over and over.

Again and again and again.

Same stories.[/QUOTE]

He is saying that it's impossible to find decent BBBJ in kiev... better in Italy! You will see soon something new...

IT

Pics too!

Brandon, sounds like a mistake in translation to me 1000uah sounds a lot more realistic - sounds like you may have been with a crew who was known for not spending money. ;)

Hello,

I'm into private salon / apartments and already got plenty of telephone numbers, but if you call there no one speaks english, so they can't even tell their address.

Does anybody know an address of a private salon in the city center and around?

Oatis,

I called all the salons and private apartments before your arrival. I asked them to only speak Russian with you since you have not once contributed anything of any value to this forum or any other forum in ISG.

What is your problem in posting your experiences? After all, it seems that you have been in St. Petersburg, Kiev and Saransk in this last year and all without any reports. Just plaintive cries for help. However, you get no sympathy here.

As for the salons/apartments here, much has been written about them. Again, as with many others, RTFF.

[url]http://www.Easternangels.de[/url]

Greetings Frank

[QUOTE=LifeSavour]She is worth at least $500,000 and still works?[/QUOTE]

Presumably she wants spending money too, without having to touch her capital? Besides, think of the sheer level of job satisfaction she gets from great guys like us :)

I'm worth more than $500K and don't consider myself anywhere near being able to retire. Quality of life costs money - in London, Moscow and Kiev especially.

1. What is the address of Tsar Club?

2. Now that 112 has closed, what replaces it? i.e. where is 113?

I think Azure is a bit of a dump girl-wise. And the music is TERRIBLE. Kaif is the place to go for young cute chicks, though they may be too spaced out to talk much..

And Caribbean Club is for local gopniks who earn in a month what we'd spend on a night out.

Has anyone heard of Saxon Club? Is this one of the left bank clubs? Who knows about or has tried anything on the left bank?

I'm really wondering if it's worth going out of your way. If you get rough looking girls in Caribbean, what is a club full of out of towners going to look like? Not to mention the danger factor.

By the way who's around next weekend (5th/6th October) ? I'm popping over to visit a girl but depending on results (or the lack thereof) I'll be up for some chasing.

[QUOTE=Ash1001]Has anyone heard of Saxon Club? Is this one of the left bank clubs? Who knows about or has tried anything on the left bank?

I'm really wondering if it's worth going out of your way. If you get rough looking girls in Caribbean, what is a club full of out of towners going to look like? Not to mention the danger factor.

By the way who's around next weekend (5th/6th October) ? I'm popping over to visit a girl but depending on results (or the lack thereof) I'll be up for some chasing.[/QUOTE]
It's been a while since I was there, but this is what I remember.

The layout of Saxon is actually quite good, it has two dance floors... one upstairs and one downstairs. Lots of area to check out and chat up women. Upstairs had a bar in the center if I recall correctly.

All in all though, kind of average in terms of women, at least on the night I was there. It was August though, typically kind of a dead month in Kiev. When I was there a couple of other foreigners were also there, so it isn't completely "Ukrainian"... even if much more so than centrally located clubs. Noted as a place for students and less-glamouros types, which could actually be a good thing. Not as pretenious as many other places.

Saxon is located seemingly miles away from anything else, so you'll have to take a long taxi ride. I suggest going with a wingman, not sure if it would be a good place to be at alone, let alone be stuck at alone at 4am looking for a taxi... especially if you are kidnapping someone's girlfriend. It's a bit rougher than places like Arena or Caribbean Club.

I heard Kaif was closed for renovations.

Saxon is currently being heavily promoted in the center.

Ash, 112 isn't closed for good. Just for renovations.

Uke Boy,

Thanx a lot for your help, but it looks like you forgot at least to call one salon! ;.) I found one "salon" where one girl spoke a little English, it looks like the 4 girls a students and they also live in this apartment and I even managed it to go there. But it was just a rip of and very bad service.

Maybe that was the reason why you didn't call there? :.(

You did also good investigation about my trips but I can't tell you any good experience, because whether I didn't make one or they just were not good ones.

Anyway I'm still searching.

Thanks for that Doc.

By the way, isn't the passing of 112 something to shed at least a small tear over? I shudder to think that ALL the freebies I have pulled in Kiev originated in 112.

I'd be keen to expand my range now. Well actually I have to :)

[QUOTE=Ash1001]Thanks for that Doc.

By the way, isn't the passing of 112 something to shed at least a small tear over? I shudder to think that ALL the freebies I have pulled in Kiev originated in 112.

I'd be keen to expand my range now. Well actually I have to :)[/QUOTE]

Well Cruiser has the inside skinny on 112... sounds like it's coming back. I hope new and improved, because if memory serves, I only ever had a good time in 112 once... and that time I brought my own babe. I enjoyed Shooters more.

So since you've scored freebies from there, you are way ahead of me on that one! :)

But Cruiser and I are biased, we've been to 111 and in it's heyday 111 was quite simply the greatest single place on the planet in the history on mankind, bar none. So for us any 112, 113 or 114 will always be an abomination.

I'm sure it works for some people, but it never worked for me.

But yeah, try some other places.

My favorite was Kaif, but sounds like it's also remonting at this time.

Quite frankly, I'm out of the loop when it comes to Kiev clubs.

Kaif had/has a great layout and the crowd was a good mix too.

My favorite club so far in Kiev was the old Arena, I have a lot of good memories there.

I went to Decadance for the first time two weeks ago. I was complete amazed by what a crap hole that club is.

The is a new club opposite Arena in Manadrin Plaza on the 7th floor called Burgundy, I think. It's supposed to be the latest and greatest Kiev club.

111 was old school Kiev, I think that is why we miss it so much. Girls used to go there looking to get picked up by foreign men.

I thought PaTiPa was going to be a good place to hang. But it attracts too many candy kids.

112 would be okay if the DJ didn't keep the music volume at 11.

I never felt the love at Shooters even thought the first and only time I was there a girl from Moscow picked me up - I'm such a sl ut.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]I heard Kaif was closed for renovations.

Saxon is currently being heavily promoted in the center.

Ash, 112 isn't closed for good. Just for renovations.[/QUOTE]112 was closed 2 weeks ago who knows when will be reopened? Thanks for the information

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]111 was old school Kiev, I think that is why we miss it so much. Girls used to go there looking to get picked up by foreign men[/QUOTE]

I remember 111 from my very first visit to Kiev in 2004. I almost didn't go to Ukraine at all as I had been warned it was a very dangerous country and not to visit it under any circumstances :)

Yes, it (111) was amazing, and I got hopelessly confused as various teenage hotties (freebie, P4P, whatever - you couldn't tell the difference) vied for my attention. I did my bit by holding onto them so they wouldn't fly off the revolving bar. Most gentlemanly, I thought.

But I'm trying to work out why the ethos in Kiev has changed so much. Nowadays you have to work REALLY hard in a club to click with a girl and get her interested. Plenty are not interested in talking or dancing or even drinking with you. A far cry from 2 years ago when a $10 bottle of Shampanskoye did the trick.

The average wage has gone up a bit - from say $200 to $500 for an office job - but even if they (or their BFs) are getting the higher rate it is still way below what you need for a 'flash' lifestyle. Unless they're aiming for oligarchs now and think Westerners are a poor second choice.

Are Kiev girls really so pissed off with foreigners that they don't even want to spend our money? Or have they been afflicted with that dreadful Western disease of wanting a guy their own age? Pah.

[QUOTE=Ash1001]Are Kiev girls really so pissed off with foreigners that they don't even want to spend our money?[/QUOTE]

It could be a symptom of a poor country's disease: in Brazil, Rio in particular, a good girl won't want to be seen with a foreigner, at least in public; and in Thailand it's even worse: a girl seen with a foreign man (farang) is stigmatized and effectively becomes a social outcast.

Well, things can't be that bad in Kiev of course. I was in Odessa last summer and while there were a lot of foreigners I didn't get the impression the girls would try to avoid being seen with them.

I am Russian and speak both languages very well. This helped me a lot in Odessa, most girls were curios, and I felt very welcomed. So nothing wrong being a western man.

I think that now foreign men are no longer a novelty, many girls feel the cultural gap is just too much of an obstacle. Many told me "the mentality is not same" or "nothing to talk about", etc. This is also true of immigrant communities in the US: Persians hang out and marry Persians, and same goes for Latinos, Russians, even the American-born ones. There are conflicting opinions on this board regarding whether or not it’s advantageous to learn and try to speak Russian, and I don’t see how it would hurt one.

In reality, are there really that many foreigners in Kiev? Based on what I see on this board there are only a handful active member that report regularly. I might have a trip coming up in November, how are Novembers in Kiev vs summer, is the party on or does the cold weather spoils all the fun?

Last summer I traveled again to Kiev and for this trip I tried to book and apartment in Internet; the result was negative due to delayed replies, language problems and the deposit request (I don’t pay these deposits in other countries where I use to travel and I don’t accept that in Kiev I have to do this).

After several emails with Gia and offers in their Web Site of EUR 80 they answered me not free this one in this category but they have one for EUR 100 when I request more information they requested a new price of EUR 120 and when I arrived to Kiev they offer me one for EUR 150 and of course I declined.

For me was not a serious agency and wonder if other member have these bad experiences with Gia or other apartments agencies there and maybe a recommendation of a serious agency but of course without payment in advance for a deposit only looking a nice picture in internet

Thanks for your advices because I plan my next trip there soon and still looking for a serious agency in Kiev

[QUOTE=Ash1001]I remember 111 from my very first visit to Kiev in 2004. I almost didn't go to Ukraine at all as I had been warned it was a very dangerous country and not to visit it under any circumstances :)

Yes, it (111) was amazing, and I got hopelessly confused as various teenage hotties (freebie, P4P, whatever - you couldn't tell the difference) vied for my attention. I did my bit by holding onto them so they wouldn't fly off the revolving bar. Most gentlemanly, I thought.

But I'm trying to work out why the ethos in Kiev has changed so much. Nowadays you have to work REALLY hard in a club to click with a girl and get her interested. Plenty are not interested in talking or dancing or even drinking with you. A far cry from 2 years ago when a $10 bottle of Shampanskoye did the trick.

The average wage has gone up a bit - from say $200 to $500 for an office job - but even if they (or their BFs) are getting the higher rate it is still way below what you need for a 'flash' lifestyle. Unless they're aiming for oligarchs now and think Westerners are a poor second choice.

Are Kiev girls really so pissed off with foreigners that they don't even want to spend our money? Or have they been afflicted with that dreadful Western disease of wanting a guy their own age? Pah.[/QUOTE]

Actually I read a report that made sense. There stood that the hidden economy in Ukraine is estimated to be about 150% of the official one. This means that under normal circumstances the average wages in Ukraine should be at 500-600$ and in Kiev 800-1000$ per month. The reason this does not happen is because the rich people get 75% of the whole income, that is the one coming from shadow economy activities and the rest gets only 25%, while in western countries salaried people get approximately 60% of the whole income. This means there is a lot more inequality in income distribution in ukraine than in the West and this in my opinion explains girls' attitude in a certain degree. Because now the girls can easily find a sponsor who can support them since the rich men are now more and more importantly have more money than before. So they do not prefer foreigners like in the past when the foreigners were the almost exclusive way to get extra income, presents etc.

So due to income inequality one can overestimate his possible attractivity in Ukraine because he does not estimate well the number of the rich and their property cause he was born in the West nd thus he draws the conclusion that if the average wage is so low, the rich cannot be extremely rich and their number is less than it actually is. This would happen in a western country if the salary was so low. But not in Ukraine or Russia.

The whole situdation can be very embarassing. The advantage of Ukraine over other non-FSU EE countries in the past was that you could have many girls who would shag in the mere anticipation of a present or only for the joy of the moment. This is no longer the case since these girls prefer rich Ukrainians and Russians who are now in abudance.

So the possibilities which remain are 1)sponsoring, 2)relationship, 3)marriage cause in ukrainian culture there are no fuckbodies like in other non-FSU EE countries. In the past for every girlfriend in relationship you got 5-10 others who had sex after some dinner or just in anticiapation of a gentleman behaviour. Now these girls are lost and the only possibility is the relationship with whatever it brings.

I'll be in Kiev this week end.

Cruiser D, are you up for a spot of high(ish) rolling in Tsar club or Burgundy? I could do with some expert guidance.

Anyone else?

Sean, the best time to be in Kiev girl wise is when the students are in town, i.e. Feb-Jun, Sep-Nov. High Summer is very slow, and I'd avoid the whole of December and January as everyone's in Christmas mode and just wants to stick with the people they already know. However this time can be good for P4P, for obvious reasons :)

[QUOTE=Ash1001]I remember 111 from my very first visit to Kiev in 2004. I almost didn't go to Ukraine at all as I had been warned it was a very dangerous country and not to visit it under any circumstances

Yes, it (111) was amazing, and I got hopelessly confused as various teenage hotties (freebie, P4P, whatever. You couldn't tell the difference) vied for my attention. I did my bit by holding onto them so they wouldn't fly off the revolving bar. Most gentlemanly, I thought.

But I'm trying to work out why the ethos in Kiev has changed so much. Nowadays you have to work REALLY hard in a club to click with a girl and get her interested. Plenty are not interested in talking or dancing or even drinking with you. A far cry from 2 years ago when a $10 bottle of Shampanskoye did the trick.

The average wage has gone up a bit. From say $200 to $500 for an office job. But even if they (or their BFs) are getting the higher rate it is still way below what you need for a 'flash' lifestyle. Unless they're aiming for oligarchs now and think Westerners are a poor second choice.

Are Kiev girls really so pissed off with foreigners that they don't even want to spend our money? Or have they been afflicted with that dreadful Western disease of wanting a guy their own age? Pah. [/QUOTE]I think one should not underestimate the hidden economy. Based on recent survey it is supported that 150% of ukrainian economy remains hidden. This means that the average wage should be about 500-600$ in the country and not 250$ as it is now. In Kiev it should be 800-1000$. Since most money from shadow activities go to the rich, such an ectent of hidden econmy means that the distribution of incomes in Ukraine varies vastly compared to the normal in western countries. In the latter the workforce gets 60% of the whole income, while in Ukraine it is estimated that only 25% goes to the salaried people and 75% remains for the rich. This leads to a certain accumulation of money and power which influences the attitude of ukrainian girls.

So a western man will likely overestimate his attractiveness when he sees that the average wage in Kiev is 400-500$ because he wrongly supposes due to his western experience that the number and property of rich cannot be that high. In his mind 400-500$ per month for the average brings about an amount of wealth that is underestimating since the rich in Ukraine get 75% of the whole income produced and not just 40% as in western cuntries. Average salary represents 25% of income distribution and not 60% as in western countries. Which means that there are a lot of attractive ukrainian rich who can afford a lot of girls. The westerener seems not attractive anymore compared to these high income counterparts and girls' demands get higher.

In the past the advantage of Ukraine was that one could have girls who joined him just for the fun of the moment or for anticipation for a future reward. Noe these girls are lost for foreigners. You can have either a 1)relationship, 2)sponsoring or 3)marriage. There is no other possibility since in ukrainian culture there are no fuckbodies unlike in other non-FSU EE countries.

In the past you could have for everyone girl in relationship 5-10 girls getting shugged in one night stands just in anticipation for gentleman behaviour. Now the same girls ask straight for expensive presents or sponsoring or are not interested at all in foreigners. The number of girls interested in long term relationship with foreigners has declined according to rise of wages. But the availability of easy to pick up girls in clubs for one night stands has almost vanished.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

I found a nice girl for 700 USD/week in kiev.

How can I pay her? All in once at the first day or half on Monday and half on Thursday or day by day? She could answer "all now or nothing" or "day by day is 300 USD per day (means 2100 USD/week)"

I want she will have a full visit about her health and she replied it costs about 240 USD. Is that a good idea or just a waste of money?

She said we can be friends and customer/prostitute: can I believe her? I think this is the prostitute's trick: "you are my friend so you can't cum in my throat and put two hands in my ass hole";.)

Thank you for help.

Hecker, you left out one very important thing. What you said generally applies to the 50+ set.

Sure in the dark days of the post Soviet collapse girls were more desperate and willing to spend time with 50+ sex tourist in deluded hopes of a possible better life. But as you pointed out the older sex tourist are getting squeezed out by richer (and willing to spend) Russian and Ukrainians. And with the easing of visa restrictions there are also a lot of younger sex tourist to choose from - hope you got it while it was good. But the screw should turn again soon.

Ash, I'm not in Kiev right now. Besides when I go out to a club and I'm looking to spend a few hundred dollars I generally bring 2-3 girls with me. ;)

Kirk, call the Enterprise and have them beam you out.

I'm in kiev right now. Will be for awhile. Some thoughts:

1) River Palace: Went there one night (had been also a long time ago) - great service, reasonable drinks, good food, hot - but way overpriced - girls. And some of the rudest girls you'll meet in Ukraine (I actually got a bit drunk, and gave a few of them a tongue lashing at their behavior). If you're in town for a very short period, want a 100% chance of going home with a young, hot girl, and money is no object, then its great. Otherwise....

Oh, and I met the troll that has been written about here so much - I do appreciate the heads up, as she is my type - physically. She was one of the most boring girls though - came up to me and, can't remember the total conversation, but basically said, "I like money". I replied, "money is just paper - what interesting things, if any, have you ever done with money". She was duly offended.

2) Apartment rentals - market is tight (long-term rentals), still overpriced, and I had a hell of a hard time finding a daily rental before coming - was all but ignored by most of the internet agencies. There are high-rises going up everywhere - give it a year, when they come on the market, and we'll see where prices/availability go...the biggest difficulty with finding an apartment, of any sort, is that there is no reliable, up to date database for realtors - you can ask an agent what's available, and they'll tell you only 3 apartments - in the whole city...

3) I won't go on about the whole cultural/downturn thing - its been a long time since EE girls just through themselves at westerners. Those days are over, forget about it. That said, the general level of available hot girls is still very high in Kiev - just takes some more searching.

4) Kirk, I don't know where to begin. It doesn't sound like a viable plan. 50%+ chance she takes whatever you pay her on the first day, and you never see her again - unless she is otherwise attracted to you, and you are generous above and beyond the set fee.

5) You can throw the $500/month average income out the window when discussing Kiev. True, there are still oodles of girls who make that, or even less, and are thus struggling. But just look at all the traffic jams, with the average car being a VW, at worst, with shlews of high-end cars, and very few old Ladas/Volgas left on the streets of Kiev. You don't drive a Mercedes - or a VW, for that matter - on a $500/month income.

[QUOTE=James T Kirk]I found a nice girl for 700 USD/week in kiev.

How can I pay her? All in once at the first day or half on Monday and half on Thursday or day by day? She could answer "all now or nothing" or "day by day is 300 USD per day (means 2100 USD/week)"

I want she will have a full visit about her health and she replied it costs about 240 USD. Is that a good idea or just a waste of money?

She said we can be friends and customer/prostitute: can I believe her? I think this is the prostitute's trick: "you are my friend so you can't cum in my throat and put two hands in my ass hole";.)

Thank you for help.[/QUOTE]

Day by day is $100 a day not $300???? why $300?

Full health visit? If you ride her bare back you are off your head anyway.

I have many girls who are pros or ex pros that are friends.

Many Ukrainian girls you must remember become pro due to financial problems of one sort or another. Have you been to the small towns outside the main cities? If I was living in them I would want to get the hell out also by fair means or foul.

Stop being anally retentive and just be a man and tell her this is how she will be paid and that is that. she will appreciate it more that way.

Street Sleuth wrote "Kirk, I don't know where to begin. It doesn't sound like a viable plan. 50%+ chance she takes whatever you pay her on the first day, and you never see her again. Unless she is otherwise attracted to you, and you are generous above and beyond the set fee. "

Qjump wrote "Full health visit? If you ride her bare back you are off your head anyway.

I have many girls who are pros or ex pros that are friends.

Stop being anally retentive and just be a man and tell her this is how she will be paid and that is that. She will appreciate it more that way. "

My friends, it is hard for me to manage girls because if I speak as a sincere and logic man (as Spock; .)) then girls become angry. So I need to be more sly than them. But it is hard to be more sly than girls. I read the wonderful reports about Ukrainian girls' beviahiour but it is hard for me to be an iron fist in a velvet glove. I know girls make sex for money because they have got financial troubles but so they became greedy too. I think my girl will ask all money at the first day and then. Perhaps she will disappear. Perhaps not.

She is orphan. She has got a younger sister and an older brother. She is a bisexual. Is that a problem?

It will be the second time I meet my girl in kiev, the first time, in June, I had passionate sex for two hours and some days after she became angry with me. Because I replied to her "why are you so greedy? There is more than money in the world, there is my friendship, there is my house for you, there my family for you, there is all my life for you. " yes, I am a romantic and silly man and now I think when girls want money for sex then it means girls want just money for their life and not friends. Unfortunately, this is my experience. So I think it is better I fuck her in all ways possible and then I see the future.

Yes, my first time I fuck her pussy without condoms and her ass with condom (I tried without but she didn't want), she licked my cock and I licked her pussy before with cream and after with sperm. She made a funny joke on me, we listened to some songs and saw some porn video clips, she didn't like Briana Banks' face fucking. Two hours had gone and so she said some relatives are awaiting for her at home. I offered other money to stay more, no: . (she went away.

I like her very much and so I want to fuck her for at least a week (I can't 9 weeks and a half because I need to work; .)) and I want to fuck her just as a girlfriend and so I will pay her full inspection. Am I crazy? Yes, I am but I want to get everything from this relationship. Life is only one and I am very tired to await for my perfect girl. I like this girl and I want this girl.

We have discussed about her visit and her work (as a pro) in my country. I asked her how much money she needs and she replied 15000 USD. I think it is a trick and it is means "do you want me? Then pay 15000 USD because I know 15000 USD are not a big amount for you" but instead she wants a lot more money.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

Street, yes the girls at RP can be quite rude. It's usually best to use some variant of fuck off if they behave that way to you. But don't be over the top or you will find yourself shut off by the cliques.

Sure there are quite a few new cars in Kiev and less older cars in the center. I think this is due to the newest way the powers that be have found to exploit the people - consumer loans. But most people I know who live in Kiev don't have a car and can barely afford to pay the rent - unless they were doled out an apartment. Of all the girls I have dated in Kiev only three have had cars. The daughter of a very high ranking police offical, an extremely attractive girl who often visits Switzerland for 'work' and a girl I never got to know well enough to find out what her deal was - probably a golden child. But the fees for owned apartments have skyrocketed - has the government started enforcing the payment of these fees yet Uke Boy?

If you leave Kiev Center you will find #3 to be less true. You have to remember Kiev Center is kind of a fantasy land it gives no true indication what the rest of the Ukraine is like. - heck, all you have to do is go to the other side of the river. The epicenter for spoiled Kiev girls is Mandarin Plaza..the further you get away from it the more normal the girls become. For every Kiev princess who speaks English well I see, I also see 50 other 'normal' Kiev girls who are just as attractive as her but that segment is (luckily) untapped by 98% of the people who read this forum or foreigners in general.

James T KirkI found a nice girl for 700 USD/week in Kiev.

How can I pay her? All in once at the first day or half on Monday and half on Thursday or day by day? She could answer "all now or nothing" or "day by day is 300 USD per day (means 2100 USD/week)"

I have been with gilrs who acts like they would married me and them who will do all kinds of tricks. In generaly, if you not greedy and know how to treat a girl (gifts, resturants) she will keep her part of the deal.

I want she will have a full visit about her health and she replied it costs about 240 USD. Is that a good idea or just a waste of money? The Ukraine is corrupted.

She said we can be friends and customer/prostitute: can I believe her? I think this is the prostitute's trick: "you are my friend so you can't cum in my throat and put two hands in my ass hole";.)

This is my friend Natasha, who begs to be anally abused and wants to be gang banged.

Dear cruiser, we all agree with you. So do we need to speak russian fluently and to go to live there, don't we? ;.) I think so and I am thinking how I can do so. This is just a thought to talk about. I am not looking to argue with you. Ok? !

I would like to look for a job in kiev but I think there is no good wages like in italy because I am not a cook or an engineer or a State employee so there is no opportunity for foreign normal employees in ukraine. The cultural difference is too big and I am not so young to learn another lifestyle. I think to marry an Ukrainian girl or a Russian girl is a good solution. Good solution because it is cheaper and more satisfacting than "fuck and go" meetings. Then she surely will leave me for another man and so I will marry another young girl and so on. I think this is the modern family style, unfortunately. I knew some ukrainian girls and they all are very moody. Maybe it is their young age. Maybe it is their cultural background. I am a man on thirties but I look like a twenties, I am italian but I look like a polish, I am not ugly and I have a nice body, I am a gentleman and I am often silly (do you know, don't you;.)) and I would like to have a lasting relationship with these girls but I knew all ukrainian girls looking for the magic moment and when the magic moment finishes then they say "bye bye baby". .

Now I am looking, through the window, the morning light fog of the the north italy and I am thinking about my adventures with ukrainian girls here in italy and there in kiev. I am lucky because I live in one of the best country in the world but how boring is the life here! The ancient dilemmma is: rich/zombie or poor/alive?

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]If you leave Kiev Center you will find #3 to be less true. You have to remember Kiev Center is kind of a fantasy land it gives no true indication what the rest of the Ukraine is like. - heck, all you have to do is go to the other side of the river. The epicenter for spoiled Kiev girls is Mandarin Plaza..the further you get away from it the more normal the girls become. For every Kiev princess who speaks English well I see, I also see 50 other 'normal' Kiev girls who are just as attractive as her but that segment is (luckily) untapped by 98% of the people who read this forum or foreigners in general.[/QUOTE]

What about the availability of older women (40-45 years old) in Kiev and the possibility of anal/greek with them?

"If you leave Kiev Center you will find #3 to be less true. You have to remember Kiev Center is kind of a fantasy land it gives no true indication what the rest of the Ukraine is like"

I agree - that's inline with my point - you have to do some searching - leaving the center falls into more serious searching (bear in mind, for someone in town for a short period of time, going outside the center seems excessive, dangerous, tricky, etc etc).

For the more adventurous types, or those here for longer periods of time, going outside the center, and finding more normal girls, is second nature.

I go to places like RP, and Arena, at times, because I like their level of service - but I agree, the center is a lousy place to find girls - unless you want to practice your English :)

Alconizer,

Moodiness is a very common trait amongst Eastern Europeans - and Ukrainians very much fit the mold. Its a generalization, so it isn't true of everyone, but much more common than found in other parts of the world. It is one thing I definitely do not like about the girls here.

That said, like I said, not all girls are moody. In addition, the moodiness is usually just skin deep - in EE, it is, for whatever reason, more culturally acceptable to be snappy and rude with strangers. But once you get beyond the superficial level of dealing with day to day events, I think you'll find the people are no more apt to be moody than anyone else.

Kind of like the polar opposite with the British - on a superficial level, they are about the most polite people on the planet. But once you get to know their deeper self, they are no more apt to be nice than anyone else.

[QUOTE=Yossi]What about the availability of older women (40-45 years old) in Kiev and the possibility of anal/greek with them?[/QUOTE]

Why bother coming to Ukraine for 40 to 45 year old women? They are generally available just about anywhere....

[QUOTE=Street Sleuth]Why bother coming to Ukraine for 40 to 45 year old women? They are generally available just about anywhere....[/QUOTE]

I was born in Kiev and lived there until I was 10 years old, then my family moved here to New York. I talk, read and write in Russian and can understand around 80% of Ukrainian language. I pretty much remember a lot of streets in Pechersk, Kreschyatik, Podol and Leviiy Bereg. Also Hydro Park.

I plan to visit Kiev when I will have vacation time for 2 weeks. Right now I gather all information that I may find useful.

I am interested in 18+ teens and older (40-45 year old) women. Basicaly I understand that best places for teens are clubs like Arena and that place River Palace, but what about older women? I have trouble finding this information.

Anal/greek is a must.

Yossi - I hear ya, makes sense now.

After reflecting on it a little, I think it would actually be quite difficult to find a venue with receptive older women. In bars, clubs, etc - you're hard pressed to find girls in their late 20's, let alone 40+.....given the general economic history, which I'm sure you are perfectly aware of, older women are either dirt poor, or ridiculously rich.

The dirt poor women may be receptive, but you just won't find them out. The ridiculously rich women can be found at high end cafes, but won't be receptive - except in special circumstances - but that kind of thing either falls in your lap, or it doesn't - not worth trying to search for.

I do have to say, some of my very, very best lays have been with 40-45 year old women.

Sorry I don't have concrete advice...

Tried Shooters.

I kind of liked the place. Dance floor is tiny, but the bar is much like the American style, where you can shift around and talk to people, and the music isn't so loud you can't hear - my favorite type of venue for meeting girls.

The girls I chatted with were all friendly and receptive - though they didn't assist in conversation development, and my Russian is still very rusty, so I didn't get far (I generally refuse to converse in English - which definitely has cost me many a hook-up, but I'm not budging, just the same....).

I was only rejected once....by a guy. I desperately wanted a wingman, so tried to talk to one guy. He wasn't having it all. Has any non-Russian here ever befriended a local guy? What's up with that? EE is a strange place - you can get laid, no problem - but you can't make friends with guys.

Anyway, not to sound like a jerk, but just to try and present things honestly, I think if you were 50+, or can't speak a word of Russian, you'd have a tough time at Shooters. I'm not certain of that - just got that impression.

[QUOTE=Street Sleuth]Yossi - I hear ya, makes sense now.

After reflecting on it a little, I think it would actually be quite difficult to find a venue with receptive older women. In bars, clubs, etc - you're hard pressed to find girls in their late 20's, let alone 40+.....given the general economic history, which I'm sure you are perfectly aware of, older women are either dirt poor, or ridiculously rich.

The dirt poor women may be receptive, but you just won't find them out. The ridiculously rich women can be found at high end cafes, but won't be receptive - except in special circumstances - but that kind of thing either falls in your lap, or it doesn't - not worth trying to search for.

I do have to say, some of my very, very best lays have been with 40-45 year old women.

Sorry I don't have concrete advice...[/QUOTE]
Generally I was hoping for something like middle-class older women in Kiev. I do believe that they exists there but I guess that most of them are married and do housework/chores all day long or something like taking care of the kids. Are there any middle-class older women in Kiev that go out like at night or on the weekends to clubs or some similar venues of leisure and then sleep with men? I think there should be some, somewhere.

I don't think that I will have a chance with rich older women there, I bet that they do nothing all day but go on the shopping sprees, visit spas and beauty salons and hang out in restaurants and cafes. I mean, if they are adventurous then they might do some leisure f@cking on the side, but seriously I doubt it.

About 3-4 months world-class German fashion photographer Juergen Teller came to Kiev and did a photo-editorial for American W magazine. In some of his photos there was this older woman, I bet that she was very rich because what else would she be doing in the fashion photos?

I guess that I can settle for a decent-looking poor women as well if they are up for anal and games. I heard that there are plenty of underpaid teachers and grocery store/supermarket cashiers.

There are older women everywhere, all you have to do is chat them up in Russian. Just ask them out, they'll say yes, and after your date, they'll be thrilled to go home with you and do whatever you want.

Well, maybe that's an overstatement, if your main goal is anal sex. That will totally depend on the woman, and they aren't sitting around wondering when the next man will come along to butt fuck them. Maybe if you tell them that you've been travelling to Greece a lot, because you found the women there to be open minded about sexual taboos?

Look in any restaurant or cafe, you'll find these women in groups, and they will be 100% approachable. Expect them initailly to be very surprised that you are giving them so much attention, so have your reasons ready to explain, to alleviate their suspicion of your intention. Tell them your story about growing up there, and this is the first time you are returning, and that you want to make new friends. That should do it.

Marriage agencies also have older women, and should be open to flings. There will always be some older women cruising the internet dating websites, and they should respond when you send them your foto.

Bez has it spot on - don't know why I didn't think of it earlier - run searches on the marraige agencies, in the age range you're looking for (40-45) - you'll find oodles of them that way. And those ladies get few, if any, letters, so they should be very receptive.

As for taking it up the butt - couldn't say. But probably most will, if they think you are into them.

The agency method for older women would be the most effective - you can find lots of them, quickly, and they'll be receptive (Whereas writing to hot 20 year old girls on those sites is a waste of time - they are flooded with messages....). Also, you can get some pre-meeting chat time, to warm them up. As Bez says, they'll be shocked, and thus skeptical, that you are even interested in them.

[QUOTE=Street Sleuth]Bez has it spot on - don't know why I didn't think of it earlier - run searches on the marraige agencies, in the age range you're looking for (40-45) - you'll find oodles of them that way. And those ladies get few, if any, letters, so they should be very receptive.

As for taking it up the butt - couldn't say. But probably most will, if they think you are into them.

The agency method for older women would be the most effective - you can find lots of them, quickly, and they'll be receptive (Whereas writing to hot 20 year old girls on those sites is a waste of time - they are flooded with messages....). Also, you can get some pre-meeting chat time, to warm them up. As Bez says, they'll be shocked, and thus skeptical, that you are even interested in them.[/QUOTE]
Good idea, why didn't I thought of it myself before.

Another thing is if they would be interested in me, I am 21 years old and most of the agency listings that I came across were where women said something like "seeking 35+ or 40+ year old man for a serious relationship" and stuff like that.

I am pretty decent guy, but I am not looking for a serious relationship. Only like one-night thing or like meeting up couple of times for action. Basically I am interested that they will do things for money: anal and hopefully photos. I have no idea how the agency system works, do I pay them like $20.00 for the woman's email address, or how does it works?

As far as I know why women don't like anal is for these reasons: painful, dirty and ungodly. I don't plan to hurt them and I am willing to go slow and use lots of lube. If they think that it is dirty then I will be more than happy to give an enema to the woman. For ungodly part I have no answer, I am an atheist so I simply don't care about it.

So I guess that the best thing for me to do is just to be upfront with them that I am looking for an older woman for a day or two of good and fun time.

Yossi try rambler or love.mail.ru mambo sites, should be no problem meeting any women including older women, especially when you speak the language. Maybe you could experiment with putting it in your profile that you are only looking for fun or not a serios relationship, and see what types of responses you get. I got some very friendly responses, I speak the language, but I limit my search to 23 y olds. Searhing in Kiev alone in 35-45 range came up with 3300 matches.

I like your openess on the way you describe this girl.
You do need to be firmer and do not fall for all the hard luck stories, Ukraine is full of them. From minor ones to real hard luck stories.
As yourself this, if the girl is an orphan then what relatives was she visiting?
I really think you need to harden up, not to the point of being a real bastard, but be a little more firm with the girl, explain your worries about paying her in advance and tell her you will pay her daily.
As to a girl asking for $15,000 to go work abroad tell her she needs to find a agent and he will help her go work abroard, Switzerland seems a good venue for them as I have met a few girls who have worked there and they own their own apartment and car, so it works for them!
Good Luck but be firm!

Sleuth, can you shed some light on good out of town joints? So far I've heard about Saxon (which, on Trutenkaya, is well outside the centre) but didn't manage to check it out this time.

Even the less snooty central clubs can yield results. Irish Lad is a long time Kiev resident and swears by Shooters and Azhure (Avalon).

Although personally I can't wait for 112 to reopen. It's always struck me as being an entry level club for students freshly arrived in Kiev who can't afford anything better..

[QUOTE=Ash1001]Sleuth, can you shed some light on good out of town joints? So far I've heard about Saxon (which, on Trutenkaya, is well outside the centre) but didn't manage to check it out this time.

Even the less snooty central clubs can yield results. Irish Lad is a long time Kiev resident and swears by Shooters and Azhure (Avalon).

Although personally I can't wait for 112 to reopen. It's always struck me as being an entry level club for students freshly arrived in Kiev who can't afford anything better..[/QUOTE]
Wasn't there a place called Pago Fashion Club or something like that? I went there once and more or less struck out, but it was very Ukrainian and quite popular at the time. The cheap drinks (and interior decorations) made it look like it had potential... at least before I struck out.

Does it still exist?

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Ash, I'm not in Kiev right now. Besides when I go out to a club and I'm looking to spend a few hundred dollars I generally bring 2-3 girls with me[/QUOTE]

That sounds fine to me Cruiser. I'll take the prettiest one and you can have the other two. We'll split the bill 50/50. Deal? :)

Seriously, you made a good point about the new personal loan market opening up in Ukraine. Give it 5 years and we'll have the same nightmare that we see in the West nowadays. No doubt all these loans are secured on the apartments some Ukrainians inherited. I smell a plot..

No one can afford a German car and a Kiev rent on $2000 a month let alone 500

Ash, I sometimes toss the lucky few a girl or two..I am generally always overbooked. 112 is hardly an entry level club - nothing in Mandarin Plaza is. The ying and yang of center clubs (not snotty) are those that have the lowest percentage of p4p - Azhur, Shooters, PaTiPa and a few others it's more of a real vibe and less p4p. You go to Arena,Decadance and 112 unless you are a memeber of that nightclub's clique or speak fluent Russian 90% of the girls are going to think you are there ho'ing. Of course in those three places 50% of the girls are for sale.

Dr S, are you talking about Tato (it's still open) - a little past 111. It's amazing how the club scene and choices have changed in the last 4 years - isn't it.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Ash, I sometimes toss the lucky few a girl or two..I am generally always overbooked. 112 is hardly an entry level club - nothing in Mandarin Plaza is. The ying and yang of center clubs (not snotty) are those that have the lowest percentage of p4p - Azhur, Shooters, PaTiPa and a few others it's more of a real vibe and less p4p. You go to Arena,Decadance and 112 unless you are a memeber of that nightclub's clique or speak fluent Russian 90% of the girls are going to think you are there ho'ing. Of course in those three places 50% of the girls are for sale.

Dr S, are you talking about Tato (it's still open) - a little past 111. It's amazing how the club scene and choices have changed in the last 4 years - isn't it.[/QUOTE]

I concur Big D, 112 uh.... Picked up the $150 girl there (of course didn't know it at the time, maybe I did???)

Older women (over 25) are looking for LTR's in FSU so if that's what you want, use personals and agencies I am sure you will find what your looking for.

[QUOTE=Ash1001]Sleuth, can you shed some light on good out of town joints? So far I've heard about Saxon (which, on Trutenkaya, is well outside the centre) but didn't manage to check it out this time.

Even the less snooty central clubs can yield results. Irish Lad is a long time Kiev resident and swears by Shooters and Azhure (Avalon).

Although personally I can't wait for 112 to reopen. It's always struck me as being an entry level club for students freshly arrived in Kiev who can't afford anything better..[/QUOTE]

Ash,

I'm relatively new to Kiev myself, so am experimenting with different places. As I find decent bars/clubs, I'll relate my experiences here.

Thusfar, I can recommend Shooters. Definitely not a P4P place. Regular girls, generally friendly.

I don't like going to the most central places (Arena area, for example), as I don't like it when I talk to a girl in Russian, and she responds in English :).

You may like Caribbean Club too. It's very Ukrainian with a lot of couples, and is meant to be the place to meet genuine local gems. Not that I have personally, although a Turkish friend of mine has done amazingly well there.

Also has some very amateur p4p.

Has anyone used [url]http://www.kievapts.com/[/url]
This is fairly urgent, thank you.

I have stayed with odessaapts.com in the summer and would recommend them to anyone. [url]http://www.kievapts.com[/url] has link to odessaapts.com, are they affiliated?

thanks

[QUOTE=Sean EZ]Has anyone used [url]http://www.kievapts.com/[/url]
This is fairly urgent, thank you.

I have stayed with odessaapts.com in the summer and would recommend them to anyone. [url]http://www.kievapts.com[/url] has link to odessaapts.com, are they affiliated?

thanks[/QUOTE]I have used kievapts.com a few times. No problems for me.

Sean,

I have used both firms and can recommend either one.

I had 2 people visiting me in Kiev (I spent about 2 months there this summer, after odessa) and they both used [url]www.kievapts.com[/url] and were very satisfied, so I think for you it should be a safe bet. The Odessa and Kiev website are in fact owned by the same person, a young guy, an American who I met a few times while in Odessa.

For those wondering what 'Devushka' style is: [url]http://carpetblog.typepad.com/carpetblogger/2006/07/devuskha_style.html[/url]

Although I think pictures could be better. I have literally seen on a number of occasions girls in the center of Odessa wearing completely see through skirts and no one on the street even glanced twice at them.

Her name is Sasha, may also go by Tatyana at Max's?

Rocco, that link was an interesting read but the guy comes off as a complete and total tool. Why must expats be so uncoth and hypercritial about everything (US, FSU, girls fashion). From the US to the FSU to Turkey - where is his next stop, outer Mongolia? He likes to collect carpets, small dogs and comments on Ukrainian girls fashion like an amped up drag queen - he mentioned he has a wife who doesn't live with him, that is such a surprise - shouldn't he be in Thailand? :)

For saying this. I've never used the below mentioned apartment rental companies. The only one I have used is UA Apartments and on two separate trips. Cruiser D can verify this. Anyway, these apartments are generally more expensive, but after looking at the below links, I noticed that a few apartments were identical and I recognized the theme and look of it. I shopped around quite a bit when I first started this process as I didn't trust companies that ask for an online deposit before you even get there. Anyway, long story short, here's the link to the company. [url]http://www.uaapartments.com/apt/KV237[/url] They have pretty good service and hire girls right out of college who are pretty darn good at English to take care of the billing and customer service aspect of the job. The link is to one of the apartments I saw identical to one on the other site, but at a $50 discount per day.

It won't be awhile until I return to this place, but I'm pretty busy as it is. Life is good on both sides of the pond.

Hey Banker, how are you doing? It wasn't the same in Kiev without you this last trip. Any plans on going this winter. Right now I'm planning on Jan, Feb and maybe a little March. I’m going to be spending a week or three down in Sevastopol too.


I've used the apartment agency you mentioned twice and had a satisfactory experience with them. I've also used [url]http://apartments.com.ua/[/url] and always had a great experience with them, although YMMV. I also used [url]http://www.ukraineapartments.com/[/url] when I rented a place in Kharkov and had a good experience with them too.

Thank you to users for their information about accommodation in Kiev.

What about Ukrainian jargon, blondiska is for a blonde girl but what is the word for a girl with black hair and blue eyes?

Has anybody updated the list of pubs and restaurants in kiev? Some girl asks me for a sushi bar.

Adding a link to a good read about some football fans' trip to Kiev a few years back (more likely of interest to a new traveller than a seasoned one).

[url]http://www.m-u-f-c.co.uk/matches/matchreport.php?reportid=19[/url]

Thanks everyone for the accomodations recommendations.

I don't know of a specific way to say a girl with dark hair and blue eyes, so one would just say "Brunetka s golubymi glazami" = "брюнеточка с голубыми глазами"

A friend from out of town is meeting me in Kiev for a day, she wants to hook up with another girl, I was thinking RP might be too much in your face, she won't like that. Any recommendations on other places where a girl would be open to a 3-some without it being so obvious I am willing to pay for it. Ideally it would be a club where we could approach, dance, and hang out with a girl and then see what happens.

Your use of the instrumental plural is truly impressive. Are you an old FSU hand?

And what is the meaning of "koketka"?

Hi all,

I'm an Englishman who'll be in Kiev next weekend and will be lookng for somewhere to watch the Rugby World Cup Final. Are any other mongers interested in watching it somewhere? If there are maybe we could hook up. Or maybe we could get together some pussy, get a room with the Rugby on the TV and have ourselves a World Cup orgy! Now that sounds like a plan!

So is anyone up for some "RUCK&FUCK"? After all, you can't watch rugby without a couple of hookers!

Colon

Many Russian words come from other languages.

For example, "идиот" translates directly in English and many other languages as "idiot".

"Koketka" is as it sounds, not unlike the above word, and is "coquette" from the French. If I have to define the word as well, then see the second paragraph above.

Yes. And the suffix "ka" denotes a female. So a koketka is a female coquette, a blondinka a female blonde and a prostitutka a female prostitute.

You get the idea.

I will be in Kiev in a week. Sometimes I have enjoyed going to strip clubs, had good success with beautiful girls. It is more expensive, but you can really get a good look at the girls and also sit for some time talking with them. The girls are also selective, they don't go with you if they don't feel comfortable, this is maybe a better guarantee for good service?.

I enjoyed "Mexico" on Kreschatyk, but it was closed the last time I was in Kiev. "Millenium" in hotel Dnepre used to have some real stunners. However, not all strip clubs allow the dancers to go out. Does anybody have information which strip clubs in Kiev allow the dancers to be taken out of the club? "Millenium" accepted that after midnight!

'koketka' means a flirt

My first trip to Kiev starts next Monday, top of my list is River Palace. How accurate is this description of the place?

[url]http://www.kievapts.com/Kiev_Nightlife.asp[/url]

Can anybody tell me, is there any type of dress code?

Hello I am Piloux from Belgium.

I will be in Kiev with 3 friends to spend some good times from 18th to 23rd.

I am also a rugby fan and I have the same question than our english friend.

So if somebody is interested to drink a beer. And have some good informationa bout girls (I have read all the topics).

Chuss

Piloux

[QUOTE=Cumming To Kiev]Hi all,

I'm an Englishman who'll be in Kiev next weekend and will be lookng for somewhere to watch the Rugby World Cup Final. Are any other mongers interested in watching it somewhere? If there are maybe we could hook up. Or maybe we could get together some pussy, get a room with the Rugby on the TV and have ourselves a World Cup orgy! Now that sounds like a plan!

So is anyone up for some "RUCK&FUCK"? After all, you can't watch rugby without a couple of hookers![/QUOTE]

I am also an Englishman and I watched the Semi Finals along with a group of other English guys at the River Palace. It was a great night especially when England beat France. The reason I went to River Palace was I knew I was guaranteed to get laid after with one of the many hookers who hang out there either in Celebration or Consolation!

Arena sports bar will be a good place to watch the matches.

Haras, when I clicked on that link I assumed I was in for the usual hopelessly out of date club listings. Instead I was amazed by how spot on it is - with the exception that Decadance really doesn't try all that hard in keeping the pro's away. You see a girl sitting by herself or with a friend at the bar - she's a pro.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Instead I was amazed by how spot on it is [/QUOTE]Excellent!

It certainly seems to be the place to go. Would many of these girls be English speaking? I don't have a word of Russian. And what about a dress code? Would Jeans be OK?

Almost all the girls in RP speak English to some extent and if they don't they have a friend with them who does.

RP used to have a dress code but I don't know if that is enforced anymore. I know I've seen guys in T's and jeans - not sure if they had athletic shoes on or not. Termayne correct me if I am wrong but Thursday and Sunday nights are the best night to go. Friday and Saturday night all the super hot p4p girls are at Arena or Decadance.

[QUOTE=Explorer69]I will be in Kiev in a week. Sometimes I have enjoyed going to strip clubs, had good success with beautiful girls. It is more expensive, but you can really get a good look at the girls and also sit for some time talking with them. The girls are also selective, they don't go with you if they don't feel comfortable, this is maybe a better guarantee for good service?.

I enjoyed "Mexico" on Kreschatyk, but it was closed the last time I was in Kiev. "Millenium" in hotel Dnepre used to have some real stunners. However, not all strip clubs allow the dancers to go out. Does anybody have information which strip clubs in Kiev allow the dancers to be taken out of the club? "Millenium" accepted that after midnight![/QUOTE]Nobody has an update on strip clubs?

So didn't my suggestion of a World Cup orgy appeal to anyone? It's one thing watching rugby with a beer in your hand, but surely watching it with a gorgeous blonde's mouth round your cock (and a beer in your hand!) is even better!

Pretty much spot on Cruiser, the super hot p4p's are to be found at Arena and Decadence on Fridays and Saturdays. Tuesdays and Thursdays are pretty much the nights for a good selection at RP, Sundays can sometimes be a little quiet. There is no longer a dress code at RP, jeans and trainers are permitted and just about the only thing not allowed is sports trousers ie; jogging pants or tracksuit bottoms, anything with a broad stripe down them.






[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Almost all the girls in RP speak English to some extent and if they don't they have a friend with them who does.

RP used to have a dress code but I don't know if that is enforced anymore. I know I've seen guys in T's and jeans - not sure if they had athletic shoes on or not. Termayne correct me if I am wrong but Thursday and Sunday nights are the best night to go. Friday and Saturday night all the super hot p4p girls are at Arena or Decadance.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Haras]Excellent!

It certainly seems to be the place to go. Would many of these girls be English speaking? I don't have a word of Russian. And what about a dress code? Would Jeans be OK?[/QUOTE]

There is no dresscode, persay, and as long as you are obviously foreign, they'll probably let you in no matter what you are wearing.

That said, its a relatively nice place, and you'd be a little out of place with shorts and a tee-shirt. Though I'm certainly not suggesting a suit. Decent pants or blue jeans, and decent shirt are the norm....though you'll see guys in full fledged suits (didn't bring a change of clothes on their one-day business trip).

English is well spoken.

RP is most known for the girls on the main floor - but downstairs, the bar is one of the best (in my book) in Kiev - great service, good, reasonably priced food, and reasonable drinks. All in a spacious, Western style setup.

Ok without sounding like a idiot.
Anyone got any information on this place thats up to date?
Thank you

Rest Town changed its name to Korvet many years ago. It may still be active but when it changed, it really changed for the worse.

No action there at all, not worth a visit if it even still exists.

The original Rest Town, may it now Rest in Peace!

finally i decided to write this thing on [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url], but even if i have her present telephone number i will not give it out because she is sponsored and i do not want to interfere with what is happening in her life.

who is [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url]?

apart the nabokov book and kubrick’s movie, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url] is a nice, around 25-7 y.o., slim ukrainian girl from kiev. you can see her pics on flirt, she is approximately so, but her pics have been modified not to be easily recognised. [url]http://www.flirt.com.ua/arzaeva25/[/url] and she do not want to be portrayed. beautiful, but not exceptional, red haired. let's say a slim 8.

approximately she is 160 cm, 48 kg or so, perfect slim body, a--- tits (nearly nothing), but has a perfect skin like silk. by the way she is bisexual (let’s say 60% lesbian and 40% heterosexual) an like teens… always elegant and sexy.

she works as translator, interpreter, russian teacher… her english is quite perfect, with american east coast accent, simply perfect, and she is quite cultured girl having travelled round the world.

i met her several times in kiev thanks to other isg members, and she is still one of my favourite sexual experiences.

the first time i met her she finalized for a meeting in a neutral place, knowing my address she chose a bar in front of my house, i could see from my window so there were no mistakes, and just come and sat there. looking carefully i understood she was [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url] from the pics, similar but different in something… she find me, lets say acceptable, so i could start sponsoring her at 300 (usd) a night… now i think she is sponsored at 5,000 (usd) a month as interpreter/assistant and… more from a businessman who surely charges all on the company. if i would have been fixed in ua i would have done the same.

after the bar meting, a beer and some chatting, we went back to my rented apartment, and she was like a devil, and a ninpho maniac. after some chatting, i just kissed her for some minutes against a wall, and got my hand inside her jeans… like a fountain! completely excited. if she was playing she needs an academy award, and it was so all the times.

bbbj with cim or cof was not ever asked, she just liked it! in a long pause with some food and refreshments she made clear to me why she did this “job”. first is because i get a lot of money, second because i like it. in bed she is something devastating, fucking you to death, and always ready, wet and open to all the games, but she said for anal we will see, it will take some time. by the way, even if not swallowing, her bbbj with cim or cof (even with no tit fucking…) are still one of the best i ever had, by a pro or not. she is such a pig that when a morning i was nailing her and wanted a huge cof, she just said “i still hadn’t any breakfast!” and just opened the mouth, of course she was face fucked to death (that time perhaps she needed to swallow at least a part!).

in our last meeting we started to get more close and planned a vacation together to crimea. we two for ten days in a nice suite in a luxury hotel some days in yalta and some in odessa. she was happy and did not even ask for real money, just some extras and gifts, but… i had to pay, if there had be to, for the teens (disco, gifts, etc).

yes our objective was finding teens and take them to bed, making them crazy, in a bisexual love. still today i am thinking on this fantastic scenario: the teen down, i’m nailng her, and she is facesitting her in front of me, and i’m kissing her: still with the teen pussy flavour on the lips… mhhhh! :d

she was dreaming on a such trip and said we will make a lot of teen friends, and have one in the bed every evening, possibly different! of course it would have been very expensive but surely worth it. she even promise me, if we did this trip, her little rear, and really tight, pink hole! it was simply a crazy thing, being the “tutor” of a 25 y.o. girl hunting for teens in a real (not played) lesbian sex scene and at least fuck one… yes she said that may be the teens would not like to be nailed, but she could do it in any case!

unfortunately when all was reserved i got a message from her. she told me she found a permanent sponsor. she changed telephone number, but she gave me her new (reserved) one, surely thinking on the possibility of a such vacation. i do not know if this guy know exactly his girlfriend… perhaps as me he is sponsoring her for teen hunting!

of course i keep regular contacts… every two/three months. if she will be free, surely i’ll take her for a 10 days vacation to the black sea with our original program! she is surely the best pro ever, and one of the best or nearly the best girl i had in bed… despite the fact i like big titted ones.

it

I met this girl about a year ago on flirt as well. Beautiful babe, not curvy but very delicate. It was one of the strangest P4P's I have ever had. I start off by talking to the girl in Russian, but soon she starts replying in English, and at that moment I understand she is a real pro. I telll her I want to fuck her ass, she tells me a date is 100 US and her ass is another 100 US, I say " great ". She then tells me she is very selective with the men she dates, gives me her number, since she doesn't like discussing too many details online.

To make a long story short, she is definitely the girl in the picture, she has been in this business for at least 2 years, she is very attractive if you like th slim red headed type and she is about a solid 7. 5-8 on a Ukrainian girl scale, maybe an 8. 5 by regular girl standards. Amazing service, DEEP anal, BBBJ and CIM.

I only saw this girl once. She is very good looking and the service was excellent, but with all the beautiful non pros in Kiev, no reason to keep dropping 300 a night on a girl I've already banged.

I still have her number, though I doubt it's her " reserved " one. But as we all know every " sponsored " girl is available, they will always play as long as they don't think they will get caught. So if anyone wants it send me a PM.
Evil Z

Who's watching it where? Anyone? Anywhere?

Also some nice Eye Candy, usually $200 for two hours. They start at $300. Spend a little time with them first and it will make your 2 hours better.

My trip is concluded so I have some reports for you:

First girl I found on a prvt website of an escort agency, the girl was great, hot, got on top and rode me like a porn star! $70 ($50 for the second), but she did not like that she was on a website so I won't list her, but used her on repeats. She made me feel very comfortable

Next girl is Tanya here:
[url]http://www.top-models.com.ua/?id=378[/url] nice girl, does anal for two hours $200 with the anal. She is tight! Good CBJ . You can cob. The tool stays wrapped, no kissing, no daty.

Next girl, Rita:
[url]http://www.sexykiev.biz/index.php?option=com_sexykiev&task=view&name=Rita&lang=en&Itemid=99999999[/url]
She is 21 and this MAY be her two years ago. I can't say for certain, the Rita I met had dark skin. She was hot, but what a b**ch! She acted like she did not want to have sex (and mind you guys I am a younger and not horrible looking). She asked if I was married and then if I was gay. I did fuck her before that question and let me tell you its not all of that. She did not move good and nearly broke my power tool! She made me very uncomfortable from the get go. Stay away from this one.

This girl:
[url]http://www.flirt.com.ua/anketa.phtml?oid=146897509[/url] May not be a super model but is very nice and pleasant. She looks better than the photo, but she is a big girl (not fat, big). I would have to say she gave me the best blowjob of my life and is the first girl to ever take me all of the way down. She does oral without condom (no cim) and anal (she says not always anal). I would do her again. $80, or $100 with oral without.

Dear forumers,

I thank you for your reports because I understood a lot of matters about sex and girls. Unfortunately I discovered this guide too late when my relationship with an Ukrainian (super) b***h, here in venice, was over about 6 months before. In fact if I had known this forum one year before, now I could be one the most happy husband on this Earth:.(

You know what is my character and so don't be angry if I seem aggressive or silly. I just try to talk about my experiences.

2. Today I saw some photos of Mystery Tramp and I discovered I fucked her in Kiev in August. I have a good memory of her.

I repeat, repeat, repeat the (my) first rule of mongers: "men, professional prostitutes are Hollywood academy awards actresses! They always pretend everything with everybody! They often pretend with theirselves! Therefore, men, we just have to enjoy prostitutes' performances and their faked feelings and orgasms but we never never never believe they are happy to have sex with us! "

She said to me her name is Alessia, 21 years old, her phone number (I called her a week ago and she answered to me she has some troubles with her mother: is that true? ), she has a slender body, no tits, friendly and feminine, blue contact lenses, right blowjob sensibility (this is the most important matter for me). Also she says some lies in very believable way. So I definitely think: "all prostitutes says to me lies because I have a too-good-boy behaviour! "

What is the quantity of vodka (and cum) does Mystery Tramp prefers? And in which type of glasses? I would like to have a surprise to her next time;.)

Which antibiotics I have to bring to have an anal sex without condom with her?

2. I will go to Kiev again on 10 November because I need a emotional break-up in my gray life. I don't know about you but I go with prostitutes NOT because I like prostitutes or I am perverted but ONLY because I need something different of gray people around here. I felt in love with Victoria, a nice prostitute in Kiev: I am silly, aren't I? I need to have sex like a pig but I need to love her. I don't know about you but the first person, that I find, is the right person for me. So it has happened with victoria. I met other girls in kiev, normal or prostitutes, but nobody has more feeling with me than victoria (except for Mystery Tramp, if she likes, I can marry her but she is not my ideal beauty) I know it is hard (or silly) to fall in love with a prostitute, I know she says to me a lot of lies (like all prostitutes) but I will try to get a glad life to her (with me). The hardest trouble in prostitutes' mindset is life = money and so my task is to change her mindset.

[QUOTE=Horny29]My trip is concluded so I have some reports for you:

Next girl is Tanya here:
[url]http://www.top-models.com.ua/?id=378[/url] nice girl, does anal for two hours $200 with the anal. She is tight! Good CBJ . You can cob. The tool stays wrapped, no kissing, no daty.
QUOTE]

I had an experience with Tanya as well. The photo is very much real. She is a little hotty - very thin, if you like that type. Generally a good personality as well. Definitely no kissing - she's real freakish about that for some reason (some girls allow it, others don't - but she claims to not like it, even with her past boyfriends).

Thank you for your pro's review.

Did anybody try Valeria? [url]http://www.top-models.com.ua/?id=864[/url]

What about top-models.com.ua:

I sometimes see in pro's profile "real photos": does it mean other photos are fake?

The photos in [url]http://www.top-models.com. Ua/? Id=873[/url] are about katie fey so is that real katie fey? ;.)

What is the meaning of "family pair"?

Ok,

I think it is official, EVERY monger in Kiev has fucked Tanya lol. I also sessioned with her over a year ago. This girl is a sexual tigress, she originally had some pictures of her taking a shower and when I made an appointment with her, she came over to one of my flats. She asked to take a shower and I just couldn't resist and asked her to let me fuck her in the shower. She agreed and I fucked her up against the shower wall, first in her pussy and I finished off in her ass. Then we got out and continued our romp in the bedroom, I have a low bed in one bedroom and she had her knees on the floor bent over the side of the bed, and I remember punishing her ass and she seemed to genuinely love it.

BTW, she did do bbbj and I am inclined to think she would have done CIM, she didn't with me, but she almost sucked me off til I finished the second time and I had to pull my dick out of her mouth or I would have cum, and I think she could tell I was about to bust and she didn't seem to mind. But I am just speculating here, as far as kissing, I usually don't kiss that many providers because I always end up thinking where their mouth has been, but on occasion I will, I didn't feel compelled to kiss her. But I will tell you guys one thing, Ukrainian girls, providers in particular, they either kiss or they don't so if she didn't with a couple of you guys, chances are that she just doesn't like kissing tricks, though she is bullshitting if she says she doesn't kiss her boyfriend, she kisses him, swallows his cum, licks his ass etc.

But I have had a girl, who normally doesn't kiss, who was in the heat of passion riding my thick long shaft just bend down and start shoving her tongue down my throat, holding my head and very aggressively kissed me. So it is possible, you just have to tickle her pickle in a way the average trick doesn't and you might get some tongue action( if that is your thing ).

But back to Tanya, I would recommend her to anyone who likes thin blondes with bubble butts and anal fetishes. You could stick a footlong dick in her ass and after a while she probably wouldn't even flinch, this girl is THAT used to getting her ass stretched.

Good Luck,

Evil Z

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

This is just an idea, please mr Jackson doesn't misunderstand me.

I see a lot of pro and semi-pro are students (or they pretend to be students) and so we can find p2p opportunities in universities and schools in Kiev.

So my question is: which universities and schools can we find good p2p opportunities?

It was long time I did not come to Kiev but I was last week and realise that RP still the best in city, even better quality than in my memory. Although girls ask even 400 USD, with good negociations they are able by 150 EUR. I pick up Tania by this quantity. SHe was pretty and nice talking half Russian and half English. Long life for RV.

Alconizer,

All the adds say 'real photo'. They aren't all real. Shockingly, some girls actually lie....to be fair, even with false photos, I have yet to have a girl show up that wasn't doable, even if it wasn't the girl in the photo.

As for student P4P - no doubt, a lot of students are part time P4P - though I don't know as though going to their school is the best way to pick them up. Campuses here aren't exactly open to the public, and they aren't going to want to negotiate in front of their friends...

Basically, internet sites, RP, and a couple other bar/nightclubs are still the best way to find the student P4P, in my book.

[QUOTE=Street Sleuth][QUOTE=Horny29]My trip is concluded so I have some reports for you:

Next girl is Tanya here:
[url]http://www.top-models.com.ua/?id=378[/url] nice girl, does anal for two hours $200 with the anal. She is tight! Good CBJ . You can cob. The tool stays wrapped, no kissing, no daty.
QUOTE]

I had an experience with Tanya as well. The photo is very much real. She is a little hotty - very thin, if you like that type. Generally a good personality as well. Definitely no kissing - she's real freakish about that for some reason (some girls allow it, others don't - but she claims to not like it, even with her past boyfriends).[/QUOTE]


Most of the pics on that site are fakes.... and the prices are crazy... (That's just my opinion).

For 300 $ or approx so, let's say between 200 and 250 € you can nail the (in)famous Mystery Tramp all the night and explore all her holes... even making CIM (if she is drunk enough she will swallow all the load)... and the body is quite similar nice skinny... Face is not perfect but if she gets horny (and it still happens after thousand of cocks) you might seek for help...

IT

[QUOTE=Acolonizer]This is just an idea, please mr Jackson doesn't misunderstand me.

I see a lot of pro and semi-pro are students (or they pretend to be students) and so we can find p2p opportunities in universities and schools in Kiev.

So my question is: which universities and schools can we find good p2p opportunities?[/QUOTE]


I do not know this, but lots of students are seeking sponsors on [url]www.flirt.com.ua[/url], mostly 18-22 y.o. I'm just hooking up with some, usually the rate is going by beauty... and age.

For short meetings (I mean a weekend or so... not 2 hours)

Starting from 200 USD a day up to 500 for stunners, that is range, for my experience. Some will even go for free if you are elegant, give them some kind present, invite them to dinner etc...

Usually the 18-19 stunners

like this here...
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=615754&postcount=727[/url]

start at 500$/day, then more days, more time less $$$ usually they have an objective, like a lap top... so if it's better for you you can buy one directly... and use the recipe like expences!

This girl is on flirt, 19teen, she starts so, because she is doing all (Anal, BBBJ, CIM, COF, Pictures etc...) Unfortunately I never managed to get her in bed... she was alredy sponsored when I was there. usually they take 2-3 sponsor a month, if its short time, not more.

IT

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Almost all the girls in RP speak English to some extent and if they don't they have a friend with them who does.

RP used to have a dress code but I don't know if that is enforced anymore. I know I've seen guys in T's and jeans - not sure if they had athletic shoes on or not. Termayne correct me if I am wrong but Thursday and Sunday nights are the best night to go. Friday and Saturday night all the super hot p4p girls are at Arena or Decadance.[/QUOTE]

I had NFL jersey on and new K-Wiss shoes....

[b]We all love bareback, but lets not be reckless and lets not let our behavior affect college students health[/b]

No offense and don't take this the wrong was Acolonizer , but what exactly are you thinking, in your other posts you are asking us what antibiotics you will need to have bareback sex with multiple Ukrainian hookers and then you ask us what Universities you can go to to pick up college students at school as if they were hookers. Is there a screw loose in your head or something ???

First, please don't come here and spread any diseases, Ukraine in general has a high HIV rate and prevalence as it is, and fucking dirty hookers probably wouldn't be advisable, but then going to the local colleges and trying to pick up young students is beyond despicable. I am not saying don't ever go bareback, because I don't want to preach but if you do, please do everyone a favor and leave the college campuses alone, I am sure you would probably get thrown out by campus police anyway but regardless please use common sense. If you want teens, check on the internet websites, but get yourself checked out before you start sticking a diseased dick in an 18 year old girls snatch. Hookers are hookers, and if they will let you thats on them, but risking a young college girls health without making it clear you fucking multiple hookers bareback is just disgusting and immoral.

Regards,

Evil Z

[QUOTE=Acolonizer]
Which antibiotics I have to bring to have an anal sex without condom with her?
[/QUOTE]

First off I don't think MT will have sex uncovered, let alone anal sex uncovered. FirAs soon as we met and started messing around she told me that she always use a condom except for oral. Second thing is that antibiotics don't protect you. Sure they can cure some of the minor STD's but Herpes is a gift for live and HIV is a gift for death. So don't bring antibiotic bring condoms. If you really want to have unprotected sex and who ever you are with is OK with it then got to a clinic and both get tested for HIV virus and Herpes. There are tests that look for the virus and not antibodies. This means it can detect them much closer to when a person was infected. It is not fool proof but it is a lot safer than just hoping she is clean.


[QUOTE=Acolonizer]2. I will go to Kiev again on 10 November because I need a emotional break-up in my gray life. I don't know about you but I go with prostitutes NOT because I like prostitutes or I am perverted but ONLY because I need something different of gray people around here. I felt in love with Victoria, a nice prostitute in Kiev: I am silly, aren't I? I need to have sex like a pig but I need to love her. I don't know about you but the first person, that I find, is the right person for me. So it has happened with victoria. I met other girls in kiev, normal or prostitutes, but nobody has more feeling with me than victoria (except for Mystery Tramp, if she likes, I can marry her but she is not my ideal beauty) I know it is hard (or silly) to fall in love with a prostitute, I know she says to me a lot of lies (like all prostitutes) but I will try to get a glad life to her (with me). The hardest trouble in prostitutes' mindset is life = money and so my task is to change her mindset.[/QUOTE]

Can you blame them for lying? I am sure that every guy they meet tells them some lie or another. I know that some times I do, especially if they ask where I got their number or name. I don't say ISG, I say my friend "John" then give a vague description of a guy. As for falling in love with a prostitute I know some people who have, one of which is very happily married with a baby. I know her well and she is a great person and wonderful mother. I know others as well that are quite happy in a monogamous relationship with an ex-prostitute. But you have to be smart enough to be able to sort out which ones are just in it to take your money and which aren’t. And a key thing is that you must be able to forget what they used to do and NEVER remind them or use it against them in an argument.

OK, enough of my being preacie. Back to talk about sex with beautiful women...

PIT

[QUOTE=PassinThrough]First off I don't think MT will have sex uncovered, let alone anal sex uncovered. First thing she told me was we always use a condom except for oral. Second thing is that antibiotics don't protect you. Sure they can cure some of the minor STD's but Herpes is a gift for live and HIV is a gift for death. So don't bring antibiotic bring condoms. If you really want to have unprotected sex and who ever you are with is OK with it then got to a clinic and both get tested for HIV virus and Herpes. There are tests that look for the virus and not antibodies. This means it can detect them much closer to when a person was infected. It is not fool proof but it is a lot safer than just hoping she is clean.




Can you blame them for lying? I am that every guy they meet tells them some lie or another. I know that some times I do, especially if they ask where I got their number or name. I don't say ISG, I say my friend "John". As for falling in love with a prostitute I know some people who have, one of which is very happily married with a baby. I know her and she is very nice. I know others as well that are quite happy in a monogamous relation ship with an ex-prostitute. But you have to be smart enough to be able to sort out which ones are just in it to take your money and which aren’t. And a key thing is that you must be able to forget what they used to do and NEVER remind them or use it against them in an argument.

OK, enough of my being preacie. Back to talk about sex with beautiful women...

PIT[/QUOTE]


Right... MT does only covered, but BBBJ and CIM are usually OK...

I think that's all...

Antibiotics... leave them home... and as PIT is saying brig plastic and lubricants (preventing from bleeding too!!)

And marrying Mystery Tramp... Mhhh fucking her is OK, but the girl is not so clever and most of all, you will marry a corporation... ya you have anal corporation, pussy corporation... and a lot of share holders in the corporation... At least 20 memebers here nailed her, most of them got back too and nailed her again, so why ruining her with a marriage. She wants to save money and go to Germany... could be a star in a FKK...

Just my two cents, knowing the girl well

IT

From just a very brief encounter with MT - yes, she is a slim hot thing. But she is what I would consider a 'hard-core' working girl. There is no turning back for her. She is all about the money, and will likely never make it as a wife/mother.

This happens to the girls that go for too long in the profession, and become too obsessed with money for the sake of money.

MT already has a kid.

[QUOTE=Street Sleuth]From just a very brief encounter with MT - yes, she is a slim hot thing. But she is what I would consider a 'hard-core' working girl. There is no turning back for her. She is all about the money, and will likely never make it as a wife/mother.

This happens to the girls that go for too long in the profession, and become too obsessed with money for the sake of money.[/QUOTE]

SS I agree, I did not met MT but many like her, I guess what they will end to do when will have 40-45 yo?

I think only few of them save enough money for the moment they will be too old to be still in the business, so what other chances? Marry the first one who will take her?

[QUOTE=Street Sleuth]From just a very brief encounter with MT - yes, she is a slim hot thing. But she is what I would consider a 'hard-core' working girl. There is no turning back for her. She is all about the money, and will likely never make it as a wife/mother.

This happens to the girls that go for too long in the profession, and become too obsessed with money for the sake of money.[/QUOTE]Hi sleuth. I am not so sure like you because, ok, it is a reasonable logic that longtime prostitutes keep prostitute mindset for all their life, but it doesn't mean they can't have a happy life and a happy family, sometimes better than a normal girl. At last prostitutes find a rich man that can give them an unworried life (sorry for my english) and probably they will talk about their adventurous life to their nephews. To boldly go where no woman has gone before.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]MT already has a kid.[/QUOTE]

I can't say I know her well - very limited encounter - but a scary thought, just the same.

Alconizer - I generally agree, in that I don't have anything against the profession, or the women that practice it - but, in my experience, if a girl is in it too long, and too regularly (every day/night....), she ends up a bit twisted.

Lukasek - as for saving money, I think this is a problem with all peoples in EE. They live for the moment - get a paycheck, spend it all. They've become very credit-happy as well (they learn fast from the West....). This is one reason why EE seems so expensive to Westerners - although we can very well afford the best restaurants, hotels, cars, etc in EE, we're not of the mindset to spend every dime we have in a 2 week period....

Just a quick one to add my two cents (or more like $200) to the Tanya thread.

When I was in Kiev last month (I'm here again right now by the way) I contacted Tanya from her profile on top-models.com. Ua and arranged for her to come to my hotel for a few hours of fucking. I got the call to say she was outside the hotel waiting for me, but when I went to meet her the girl there was not Tanya and did not do anal (my reason for meeting Tanya in the first place). I called Tanya and asked what was going on and she said that she was I'll (mysteriously she hadn't been I'll when I spoke to her an hour before! ) and had sent along her friend in her place. I said that I wanted to see HER and she said OK, but it would take her another hour to arrive. That fucked up my schedule for the rest of my day so I ended up fucking the friend instead. (She was OK, nothing special)

The next day I rang Tanya to rearrange. She was keen to come and meet because she said she'd spoken to her friend and had heard very good things about me (I think her friend enjoyed it more than I did! ). However she did say that she wouldn't be able to do anal with me because of what she'd heard about my size! Now, while my cock is bigger than the average mongering cock (20cm long and 15cm around) it's hardly the "footlong dick" that Evilz reckons she can take up her ass without flinching!

So if anal is your thing and you've chosen Tanya for that reason and you've got more than most in the trouser department, then don't be surprised if she wimps out of being sodomized by you!

Hi fellows,

I plan to visit Kiev in December and hence would like to find some female friends over the web :-) I would like to sign on to flirt.com.ua but I cannot translate the page with babelfish to English. I am little bit lost now because I can not read russian language. Maybe anyone can help and explain the steps I need to take to sign on. By the way - the page is free, isn't it? Or do I need to get a membership in order to contact the girls there?

Thanks a lot. Really appreciate it. Will report after successfull hunting :-)

Best Regards

EH

unless i'm missing something street most people in the ukraine don't trust banks and really have a hard time getting their thoughts around the concept of a mortgage. as recently as what, 96 there was a bank crash in the ukraine - people still prefer to get paid in euro's or usd. i'm sure uke boy can give us the straight [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord116][CodeWord116][/url] if he is so inclined and if it even matters. :)

Banks in Ukraine,

There are very good banks in Ukraine, but you are right, VERY many people just don't trust them for many reasons and until Ukraine's political future becomes clearer, people will continue to mistrust them, but with that said, the banks here are very good: Citibank, Credit suisse, Privat, ING etc. I know, I use them. And you are right, in the past, most people would try to keep their accounts in either Dollars or Euros, though they would get a higher return rate for keeping their accounts in Grivna. But for at least the past year or so, most people who knew what was going on started switching over to the Euro, and they are sitting pretty right now.

Most people who have large amounts of cash and don't want to keep their money in banks usually buy properties and cars, in Ukraine, as you all know, both retain their value quite well, and property has been one of the best investments over the past 10 years.

But as far hookers saving money, that would be a rarity, specially the ones you see hooking year in and year out, they do this because they are unable to save, it has nothing to do with being from EE, they are just irresponsible. But I do agree that with the coming of credit in EE, people are, in general, going credit crazy, like kids in candy stores. I personally think credit is a good thing, but only in large amounts, in small amounts , it turns countries into debtor nations like the USA and it's citizens into wage slavery candidates, and that is not a good thing.

Any intelligent hooker, is probably working part time to put herself through college or simply saving up to start a business or looking for a wealthy sponsor. Only the stupid ones are in the biz for years on end, because either they really like being whor*es or they are too stupid to get themselves out of their financial hole. Race doesn't really play a part, stupidity and immaturity does, and that isn't race specific.

Regards,

Evil Z

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

I have had many people prefer other currency such as Dollars or Euros. I was told, but do not know first hand, the bank accounts are taxed for the money that goes through the acount. This would certainly make me think about how much I put in the bank, if any.

The country is going through some growing pains, prices are high because of EU investors but still has many old school Socialist tendancies.

While the lure of the west and joining the EU is appealing to the vast majority, it also appears that their neighbors to the East are still flexing and Putin is now looking at becoming Prime Minister. So much for term limits. Enough for me to think twice about investing.

The banking system here is typical of all businesses here, thoroughly schizophrenic and chaotic.

The locally owned banks are nothing but personal piggy banks for the wealthy to transfer and launder their ill gotten gains.

The banks now owned by foreign based banks (and many more are now coming into the market) do face problems since the legal system here is completely incompetent and corrupt with laws and taxes that do not promote actual business growth. That is why there is a flourishing gray market of doing business and a huge business in avoiding taxes.

The biggest problem for depositors is the pathetic level of insurance on deposits. Currently it is 50,000 grivna or $10,000.

Now I can tell you that many many people have much more than $10,000 hidden away at home. I can assure you that Mystery Tramp (now we are again on topic!) and her colleagues do exactly the same with their earnings. They and everyone else here all feel that this money is safer at home than at the bank. In addition, if the bank fails, chances are that the insurance system will not cover that loss.

As for mortgages and housing, that is another fairy tale.

In the new housing market, most apartments are built only when the builder has collected nearly the full price of the individual apartment from the buyer/owner of the apartment. This is a high risk investment for many people. Some get their apartments in about 2-3 years, others find out that the builder has laid the foundation, gone bankrupt and left with the tens of millions of dollars they all as a group invested. Unlike Russia where the law forbids such a possible scam, Ukraine in its infinite never-never land ways of doing things allows and even encourages such possible scams.

Because of this system, the mortgage system, while it exists, is still very much of an infant. I cannot say it is still-born but there are also real problems here for the mortgage holder. If the mortgagee wants to default on the mortgage, the present laws are so obtuse that even if the mortgage holder wanted and had most of the laws for eviction his way, he may well never be able to finalize that eviction based on other laws defending the rights of individuals to their homes.

In the secondary housing market, it is simpler. No mortgage. You pay the full price of the apartment in cash and it is yours. In most cases. Even here, there may pop up some people, usually distant relatives of the seller who may also claim rights to the apartment! But that discussion is for another time.

Evil, Citibank, Credit Suisse, ING and other such major western banks do not take deposits from normal folks. They take only corporate and commercial business. Privat as a local bank take such deposits, as does Rafaissen Aval, OTP Bank, Bank Austria and many others, including, of course, Oshchadbank.

Yeah, along with Uke Boy, I'll have to constrain myself. Banking/Finance/Real-Estate are my specialties....

I would agree, there is still general fear of depositing money in banks. The fears are well placed. I would not agree that the banks in Ukraine are in such good shape. As mentioned, the smaller banks are generally slush funds of the super rich and/or money launderers. The mid-sized to large banks make a profit by borrowing (deposits) at an average around 10%, lending around 15% (very rough numbers, depends on bank, currency type, and terms).

Ukraine banks aren't highly experienced in credit risk management. Additionally, they don't have a lot to go off of (no Experian, etc. in EE). Yes, yes, I know, banks in US are taking a beating right now, but overall, they're in better shape.

Simply put, I wouldn't put any large deposit in any Ukraine bank. Even the 'foreign' banks are really just Ukrainian subsidiaries of foreign banks - they are perfectly capable of going bankrupt, while their overseas parents take no loss/liability whatsoever (beyond equity they originally invested).

What does this have to do with mongering? Not much, so I'll stop there.

OK - couple more thoughts:

Agree with previous post - mortgage market still in its infancy. Until laws are worked out making the foreclosure process easier, clearer, and more certain, it will remain a small market.

The credit craziness is more on the level of auto loans, computer loans, washing machine loans, etc. High interest rates, lousy terms. The kind of stuff you generally find in the ghetto in the U.S. Sorry, but that's the way I see it.

I agree - credit is key for large purchases/investments (namely, real-estate). It is OK for autos. It is a lousy idea for consumer merchandise.

And I agree - real-estate has become a piggy bank for the wealthy. It has been a great investment. I suspect this will end real soon, and quite painfully for many. The reason why it can persist longer here (versus U.S.) is due to the very fact that real-estate isn't highly leveraged here. But all booms go bust, just the same.

Ok enough already this is a monger site not the financial times.
But for my 2 cents. 2p!
I am here in the Ukraine doing just that banking finance and other business.
The banks are far more stable then say 6 years ago but a i agree its not western standards yet.
Regarding large deposits they only pay good rates on deposits up to $50k so its better to spread the risk over as many banks as possible but on $ you can get 13% better than any western bank for sure.
I would still prefer to use a bank than stick it under the floorboards.
Anyway I will give you all the name of my bank when i have eventually bought it and you can feel safe i will spend your money wisely with the best looking hooker i can find!
Cheers
Q

You may not know this but the Ukraine stockmarket has provided the second highest investment returns over the past five years (on average 82% per year), just behind Peru and just ahead of Bulgaria. I think it is a great place to invest but don't put all your money in just one emerging economy.

I like finance matter!

I easily open a bank account in Unicredit Bank in front of Bessarabska market place and Arena City. I like very much to live in that area.

What about prostitutes' savings, I explain what prostitutes, that I know, do:

- most prostitutes don't like to work and to have a normal work so they went to prostitution because they want to earn a lot of money with no pain.

- therefore their savings are not for firms otherwise they have to work again in their own firm (and they don't like to work). Their savings are to buy flats, houses and buildings so they can earn a weekly rent for all their life with no more work again.. Some prostitutes earn money just to send money to their family in Ukraine.

- some prostitutes want to become manageress of other prostitutes.

Do prostitutes like prostitution? I know: prostitutes meet in their night life a lot of good customers and in their day life a lot of good friends but however they don't want a lasting relationship and they continue in prostitution: therefore in your opinion, do they like prostitution?

The key words in prostitution world are: money and cynism. Every other matters (feelings, health, etc.) are illusions for customers and silly men (like me)

[QUOTE=Uke Boy]In the new housing market, most apartments are built only when the builder has collected nearly the full price of the individual apartment from the buyer/owner of the apartment. This is a high risk investment for many people. Some get their apartments in about 2-3 years, others find out that the builder has laid the foundation, gone bankrupt and left with the tens of millions of dollars they all as a group invested. Unlike Russia where the law forbids such a possible scam, Ukraine in its infinite never-never land ways of doing things allows and even encourages such possible scams. [/QUOTE] Fair enough, I agree with many of your opinions, but many also belie certain political inclinations I do not share, but I will be as democratic as I can considering we are in Ukraine after all and this is POST " Orange " revolution (LMFAO). First, and I am just wondering (not making any personal slights here) I just want to know how much first hand knowledge you have of the real estate business in Kiev? How many apartments do you own in Kiev and how many apartments have you purchased pre-construction? Just wondering, since I do know first hand since I own apartments in Kiev and have so for a long time.

Everything you said above is true, or more accurately WAS true YEARS ago. And you know as well as I, real estate investment during those times was risky business, but answer me this, how are all those people who did invest doing now? 4-5 years ago you could buy pre-construction for 1000-1500 dollars a sq meter in the center, now those buildings are worth 5-7-10 thousand a square meter, am I correct in this or am I way off the mark? And all those people who invested have basically multiplied their investments in 2-4 years. So it was extremely risky and many projects did go under, but the majority didn't and those buildings are extremely good investments in hind sight and the investors have made hundreds of thousands if not millions. Just look across the pond at Xarkovsky or Posniaky, who would have known that the prices would have shot up from 900-1000 dollars a sq meter just a couple of years ago to 3000-5000 a sq meter today? I idn't but what I do see today is land development that doesn't seem to end, a newly built building on every available sq inch of land, beautiful towers everywhere and extremely happy real estate investors.

You know as well as I do, that no matter how risky real estate investment in Kiev is or was, it has been one of the best mid level investments in the entire country HANDS DOWN. IS it as good an investment NOW as it was back then? No, and part of that reason is the lack of significant risk, the risk is no longer in the building not being finished, the risk now is two fold, first, will property prices maintain their record highs and two, will the initial investment appreciate to the level you need it to in order to make the investment worthwhile?

I personally don't see prices going that much higher, I see them dropping off some and then stabilizing but maintaining at least about 70-80% of their current value. This is just my opinion, so as far as investing in new projects, it depends on the project and your individual intentions. Again, I agree with the above, but it really doesn't apply these days, I mean please give one good example, of a building recently going under before completion in Kiev? Just one, and remember, to even start to make your point valid, you would have to show a patern and not a single isolated event.

[QUOTE=Uke Boy]Evil, Citibank, Credit Suisse, ING and other such major western banks do not take deposits from normal folks. They take only corporate and commercial business. Privat as a local bank take such deposits, as does Rafaissen Aval, OTP Bank, Bank Austria and many others, including, of course, Oshchadbank. [/QUOTE] I am actually surprised you know that, and yes you are right, Citi Suisse and ING generally work with corporate accounts. But as you can tell in my post, I wasn't making any distinctions, I simply said that there were good internationally recognized banks operating in Kiev (Ukraine) and that I use their services You are debating semantics, personal or corporate banks, they are still good BANKS operating in Kiev.

Everything else you said was mostly true, though as I said before, with your own particular slant. Banks in EVERY country are generally used by the wealthy elite to launder their money and there are black markets in every country that deal specifically with the wealthy and their ever present need to NOT pay taxes, same shit different day.

But I enjoyed your post and am glad that there are a couple home grown forum members that have an opinion to give, whether or not I agree with them, and I hope you understand that Uke, just because I don't agree with your opinion, doesn't mean I don't respect it, it just means I think differently than you, as is common among free thinking individuals in a Democratic plural society; ).

Regards,

Evil Z

Hi,

Somebody know this site [url]http://www.night-fairy.com/[/url] ?

I saw it yerserday on travel sex guide, but it seems to be a copy of this one : [url]http://www.diamond-passion.com/[/url].

Diamond is on Belarus according an ip location.

[QUOTE=Zebulon1]Hi,

Somebody know this site [url]http://www.night-fairy.com/[/url] ?

I saw it yerserday on travel sex guide, but it seems to be a copy of this one : [url]http://www.diamond-passion.com/[/url].

Diamond is on Belarus according an ip location.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.ukraine-escort.info[/url]

has all the same girls and they are supposed to be in Donetsk!
someones lieing or the girls are doing big trips all over!

First Qjump, I wouldn't be surprised if top level escorts do work different cities. For instance Vodka is based out of Odessa, yet you can have them sent up to Kiev or they are also periodically in Kiev as well.

As far as as these agencies go, I would be wary of ANY agency based out of Belarus, I would say 7 out of 10 websites are scam sites. And I would also be wary of any new website asking for money up front from western union. I think if you are feeling brave go for it, but if it ISN'T a reputable website I personally wouldn't send them a dime.

But if anyone ever tries it out, let us know how it turned out.

Regards,

Evil Z

Dunno Evils, Uke Boy seems spot on as usual.

What is the chance of a market completely imploding and collapsing on itself in the FSU, thats never happened there before - has it? Besides, the Ukraine economy and infrastructure are as solid as bedrock. The housing market isn't built on spectulation from mostly Russian oil money, I mean there is a solid middle class backing the real estate bubble, right? Besides the billionaire thiefs running the country what else do the people have to worry about?

The building don't go under Evils, they always eventually get built - with the exception of the vacant lot next to the Dnipro Hotel. After the various "owners" have gone through 2-3 sets of investors.

As you know it's all about the connections in Kiev, you really don't have to know a thing, do you...

Just keep whistling a happy tune, it will be ok. Glad you could take time to respond to Uke Boy - was GIA closed?

That's great, good to know you have an opinion, we ALL do. The only difference is some people have a bad habit of thinking they are ALWAYS right. I personally don't mind if other people think differently. But why are you trying to pick an online fight with me ? It is childish and pathetic. Put me on ignore, you are doing yourself a disservice by posting all this animosity.

I don't really care to speak with you, but if Uke wants to respond, he can, he actually sounds like someone worth talking to, you are a waste of my time.

Regards,

E-Z

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Dunno Evils, Uke Boy seems spot on as usual.

What is the chance of a market completely imploding and collapsing on itself in the FSU, thats never happened there before - has it? Besides, the Ukraine economy and infrastructure are as solid as bedrock. The housing market isn't built on spectulation from mostly Russian oil money, I mean there is a solid middle class backing the real estate bubble, right? Besides the billionaire thiefs running the country what else do the people have to worry about?

The building don't go under Evils, they always eventually get built - with the exception of the vacant lot next to the Dnipro Hotel. After the various "owners" have gone through 2-3 sets of investors.

As you know it's all about the connections in Kiev, you really don't have to know a thing, do you...

Just keep whistling a happy tune, it will be ok. Glad you could take time to respond to Uke Boy - was GIA closed?[/QUOTE]

I'm sure Ukraine's well on course for another 1998 style collapse. Everything is as dodgy as hell. The credit boom has given everyone more cash to spend on overpriced bars, cars, restaurants and apartments and the chance to forget that even though the political / gangster class is multiplying its wealth as never before, professional salaries are still pathetically meagre.

A few red flags:

Ukrainian banks paying 13% on $ deposits when US banks pay 4.5%? Is there a clearer way of saying "we want to steal your money" ?

Ukrainian off plan property developers don't insure their developments against non completion. Probably because the premiums would be bigger than the GDP of the country.

IKEA couldn't get hold of a suitable patch of land for its proposed Kiev superstore. If a powerful multinational can't bribe the right people, who can?

Gangsters can have blonde braids too. That Tymoshenko woman has a stolen $1BN or so in swiss bank accounts and yet is the new pro Western face of ANTI CORRUPTION. Yes I'm sure she'd be only too glad to shut down scams she can't personally benefit from :)

Far richer emerging economies benefitting from EU money (Poland, Czech Republic) and genuine increases in the average standard of living are showing much more modest and sustainable real estate price growth (~20% pa). And they wouldn't touch the run down Soviet panelaks that Ukrainians are paying crazy money for.

Above all, the EU needs to make it clear to Ukraine that it doesn't have a hope of EVER getting in. Otherwise we'll be in the same mess as we are now with Turkey: after ten years of dangling the EU carrot to get them to become more "European" (i.e. slightly less corrupt and murderous) we now just have to admit that they can't join because we don't really want them.

Whoring will continue to be the best career path for women in UA for quite some time. No worries there. To be honest it probably is here in London too, but their rates (GBP 1000 per night) are somewhat out of my league :)

I totally agree with Evilx.You simply do not understand slavic and russian-ukrainian mentality(with all their differences) as Evil does.Russian and ukrainian elite simply hates the middle class,they represent in their view the most low class taste,average mass lack of style,lack of culture etc.They like freedom a lot more than their western counterparts even if it involves violating the rights of common people that in the west are taken for granted.

Actually Evils for a guy who trumps himself as the man with insider knowledge in Kiev you seem pretty clueless. All you've talked about are all the typical expat places and western orientated websites. I speak about 30 words of Russian (and I speak them poorly) and do about 100 times better then you. What's your problem? Do you have any real information except how GIA is or how great the steak is at SoHo? What's next, your favorite place to shop is Globus? I generally answer you with veiled insults and facts, you just retort with insults. :) Uke Boy isn't going to respond to you because he has far more restraint and tolerance then I do - he already said what he needed to say.

Ash, I agree with you 101%. Yulia got all her money skimming from an energy trading company (a seemingly favorite way to become an overnight billionaire in the FSU) now she wants to make it illegal for anyone to do something like that again. Yuschenko (and his family) are getting nervous because there is talk about doing away with the Ukrainian brokering company for Gazprom. Being American I find it hard to talk about how screwed up the Ukraine is when we have W and his war profiteers here. Ah politicians, scum of the Earth. I've told investors all the time, if you want to invest in a EE economy invest in the EU EE. IKEA like a lot of Western companies probably got a taste of doing business in the Ukraine and said thanks, but no thanks. Turkey will never become part of the EU for the same reason it has stood apart from Europe for the last 2000 years or so. :) Ukraine has a chance in 10 or so year but by that time it will be moot. I'm thinking the Ukraine economy will collapse in about 16 months, look for real estate prices to drop about 50% - it will still be overpriced.

Evil and Cruiser, I don't know, it seems that you are not destined to be the best of friends.

I have a few comments to make, Evil. You do come across in your posts as arrogant and a know-it-all. Anyone who may disagree with you is attacked as a know-nothing when it comes to Kiev or Ukraine or even how business is done here. I have been here as a full-timer for about 15 years so I think I know a little something about the city, country and people, maybe now even more than you since you left whenever that was. My suggestion to you is to keep contributing but you are not the sole expert (and I am certainly not either) nor is any one person in this forum that knowledgeable. It is the contributions of all, Cruiser also being a very important contributor, among the many who make this thing work.

My two cents on the economy. Yes, there are many rich folks here who drive Escalades, Lexus and many other very expensive cars. (I just wish they would learn how to drive, first, especially on the roads and not on the sidewalks, LOL.) But with just a few exceptions such as agribusiness and steel, there are almost no "brick and mortar" businesses that can and will sustain economic growth beyond perhaps a 5-7 year time frame.

As a local friend of mine said not too long ago, Ukrainians are capable of making money out of nothing. That is good and that is also very bad. It gives those who are capable of this trick instant riches but the real problem is the psychology of that local. They then go out and spend it on cars, booze, broads and whatever strikes their fancy. They may put some of that money into local real estate and other lucky ones get some funds off shore bank accounts. But the real problem is that few, if any, make any investment in their business, into development of that business and into the people who work in their business. In far too many cases, the business is run into the ground and every single kopeck is sucked dry for the benefit of just one person or a small group.

This behavior is sadly all too prevalent here, across the board, from huge businesses to the smallest.

The real estate boom is no different. Apartments that cost $20,000 just five years ago are now valued at $200,000 or more. Realistic? Not by a long shot. Can you compare a Kiev apartment of $200,000 to one in London or New York? Which one of the three is worth in real terms much, much less?

Again, the real estate boom here is all speculation, a bubble. There is nothing to anchor it, underneath each and every building here and every apartment is not granite but quicksand. The real estate market is purely overheated and once it cools, it will collapse in spectacular fashion. When? I do not know and will not guess but at that point, there will once again be many more Ladas on the road than Escalades.

By the way, one other significant fact. In a recent survey, the Ukraine State Statistics Committee, Goskomstat, released figures that showed 84.5% of all Ukrainians considered themselves poor, here's the link in Russian [url]http://www.podrobnosti.ua/society/2007/10/06/462500.html[/url]. That I find to be a frightening figure but also one closer to the truth than all the luxury cars on the roads here.

What is the truth of the matter here in Ukraine, I am not sure. There are too many contradictions all over the place, from the government and the legal system to how, where and how much it will cost someone to pick up a lady for the evening. However, for the most part, I try and ignore the former and thoroughly enjoy the latter.

Too many women here and too little time but I keep trying or as the old line here goes that I learned on my first USSR visit all too long ago, "пора по бабам!"

Thank you Qjump for your reply.

I didn t know this site, but right exactely the same girls, may be it is the original site.
This is the first time i see an escort ukrainian web site that give so many information about how to pay.

[QUOTE=Qjump][url]http://www.ukraine-escort.info[/url]

has all the same girls and they are supposed to be in Donetsk!
someones lieing or the girls are doing big trips all over![/QUOTE]

"....look for real estate prices to drop about 50% - it will still be overpriced."

On this, CD and I agree 100%. Tough to predict exact percentage drop (30, 40, 50%), but a big drop will occur just the same. At the very least, as is typical in depressed real-estate markets - units will just sit. Owners refuse to lower prices, but no buyers bite.

To some extent, this is already the case - I asked an agent, who quoted astronomical prices for apartments (purchase prices) to show me proof that units had sold recently for similar prices. She couldn't - there is no such public database as can be found in any US city with such info. My guess - very few units are actually selling.

All this may seem irrelevant to the thread, but it is really spot on. Not that I encourage or invite economic depression, but when it happens, life in Ukraine will be even more interesting for us expats....fewer rich Ukrainians to compete with, more unemployed girls, cheaper apartment rents....

On that note, what we really need is for oil to drop back to $8/barrel!

As far as the corruption. History teaches me that John F Kennedy's Dad made his money off of whiskey. Some say the real money was bootlegging during prohibition. History also teaches me that JFK's Dad showed the stock exchange how he turned that fortune into a Mega fortune by selling short when the stock market went down. JFK's Dad helped change the laws so short sales can only be done on the uptick. (when stock is rising in price)

My point is that 95% of the wealth in America is owned by 5% of the population, and they did not get it by being "Ethical" by the highest standards at the time. Ukraine is no different in that regard.

However, Goverment worries me. At one time the oil companies of the world put mega money into Mexico. Mexico then repaid them by nationalizing Mexican oil. Now Mexico owns the Oil and the National Oil company. The oil companies of the world got screwed.

Not only am I scared of Socialism of one form or another changing course and taking what ever investment I may have made away, the property boom in other areas of the world, such as California, before the fire, are already going down hill. What was worth $1,000,000 18 months ago was only worth $650,000 6 months ago.
Nothing ventured nothing gained, but I see more down side in Keiv Property prices than I see upside in comparison to parts of the EU and US because Ukraine is less stable and higher per meter.

Sooner or later the music stops and some are left without a chair, such as the Savings and Loans in the US during the oil glut. If the financial institutions are the ones without a chair, does the Goverment of Ukraine have the financial strength to prop their financial institutions back up without screwing the depositors? I don't think so, but if I am wrong, I would like to hear how.

[QUOTE=Street Sleuth]On that note, what we really need is for oil to drop back to $8/barrel![/QUOTE]

May I also add in the "needs" column that the price of the Stunner over in the corner drops to $75 for LT overnight? Oh yes, and that to include all requested services. Thank you.

uke,

did you even read my post or answer the questions found therein ? i agreed with many of your assumptions and disagreed with many others, i didn't say i was write or that you were wrong, i simply stated that i disagreed with your analysis.

i also simply stated that real estate was a good investment for most 3-5 years ago, but for many reasons, it just doesn't make sense today. and i won't go on and on about bullshit, it is plain and simple roi ( return of investment ) if i invest in a property worth 5000 a sq meter, do i have a realistic chance of that property appreciating to 10,000 a sq meter in the next few years ???? hell no, and that is why i am no longer investing in kiev real estate, i have moved on.

but, it is simply false to say that it wasn't a good investment 3-10 years ago. and i will repeat my initial question to you ( forgive me if it sounds arrogant ), other than simple observations what actual real estae experience have you had in kiev during the last 15 years ?? all i know is this, property used to cost 900-1500 a sq meter when i purchased it and it is now worth 5000-10000, i have sold some of it, recoopped my initial investment and made a killing and even if the prices on the remainder drop 50% ( which i don't find to be an accurate figure, i would conservatively put the figure at 20-30%, but i could be wrong, there is no way of actually knowing since we are all just guesstimating and shouldn't get bent out of shape if someone guesses differently, ) it will still be worth many times what i purchased it for.

and i already stated the prices will drop, everyone with half a brain sees this is a bubble, and they are bursting all over the world, look at the us, california and florida used to be some of the most attractive places to invest, and look at them now. condos in florida that used to sell for 1 million, you can't give them away now for 500k. houses in california that used to be valued at 1.2 million are down to 900k today. you are talking about a 25% drop in 18 months, and there is no end in sight, people are talking about how prices could drop another 20-25%. look at london, does no one see that bubble ? how do 100 year mortgages sound ? reasonable ?? well they are becoming standard in europe.

kiev real estate is not a good investment for simple roi reasons today, but if you had the cash, the balls and the connections a few years back, you could have easily quadrupled your money in a couple of years. and many people did, and i think alot of this is sour grapes. from some of the posts here i sense a bit of resentment towards the ukrainians who have become multi millionaires and billionaires overnight, it seems middle class westerners that could travel to many parts of the world and feel and appear rich by local standards are hard pressed to appear middle class in kiev. sorry, just an observation based on many previous posts and certain bellicose comments made by some. but again, maybe i am wrong.

and yes you are right, ukraine, like the us, like latin america, like many countries is filled with contradictions and either you take the good with the bad or you learn to enjoy valium, because it is what it is, it isn't perfect, but what in life really is. i also see turbulent times in ukraine, the first sign of this was the " orange revolution ", it was marketed as a cure all that would stamp out corruption, bring all the poor into the middle class, strengthen the economy, bring ukraine closer to europe so on and so forth, this never happened. corruption continued and even increased, the only thing that changed was the spectrum of corruption broadened, you no longer had the russian backed politicians getting paid, you had us and european backed politicians getting paid as well, does anyone think they will ever give this up ?? why should they ?? look at the us, politicians are owned by multinationals ( they should wear decals ), everyone knows this, someone please explain what exactly " lobbyists " in the us do ? isn't it basically legalized corruption and bribery? how many politicians have gone to prison or lost their jobs in the last few years in the us because of excessive corruption ?? so i don't want to sound cheesy and say maybe the pot is calling the kettle black but come on guys, corruption greases the political wheel everywhere and makes the world go round. so yes you are right uke, ukrainians are good at exploiting corruption, almost as good as the us, and as long as it exists, they will continue to be good at it and profit from it.

very interesting commentary uke, and you are right about many things and i value your insight, but as you said in your post you are not the sole expert ( no matter how much cd insists ) and neither and in no way am i, i just bring a different perspective and as long as we respect our differing views, we can have thought provoking and constructive debate.

and to cd, i will not directly reply to any of your comments, you have quickly become a sad, bitter little figure in my mind and i just basically wish you would stop directing your anger and insecurities towards me.

regards to all the thinking individuals on here,

e-z

I am not sure but I heard the International Monetary Fund said that the world economy will be slowing more than expectations.

I hope nobody will be poorer than now. If Europe and USA and Japan will be poorer, I am afraid what could happen in Ukraine.

In my opinion money to Kiev comes mainly from Russia,so until oil prices drop, the real estate prices,inflation etc will be on the rise.The same is true with ukrainian arrogance.It is fueled by the high oil prices that have a multiplied effect on their russian neighbours.There are agreements between the countries,for example Ukraine sells low quality steel produced in Donbass to Russia and the prices are fixed.I think they have contained many terms in agreement,how much will everything cost,how the price will vary according to oil price and maybe there is a kind of product change,fixed,not normal price determination according to laws of offer and demand.The russians and ukrainians are so tricky that is difficult to understand them.

I also think that high prices in real estate are not only due to speculation but they come naturally from the lack of available places to build modern buildings due to existence of heavy previous communist constracture.They cannot demolish every old building and so they have to pay astronomical prices for a small piece of land to build.So it is like generation of a super modern city within the oldest and most antiproductive environment.

Elite in these countries does not care about spending.They have different sense of economics.Even in tsar times the russian palaces were the most luxurious in the world although most of the population was starving.They do not care about the middle class and they do not give a damn about democracy or human rights as people mean it in the West.

[QUOTE=Excess]May I also add in the "needs" column that the price of the Stunner over in the corner drops to $75 for LT overnight? Oh yes, and that to include all requested services. Thank you.[/QUOTE]

Its a complex mathematical equation - but both are substantially equal.

$8/barrel oil = $75 all-night stunning hot girl of your choice....

[QUOTE=Street Sleuth]... fewer rich Ukrainians to compete with, more unemployed girls ...[/QUOTE]

Aah, such stuff as heaven is made of..

I called Geisha Massage yesterday and had lola come visit. Fund time, very intimate massage and fun. She stayed longer than she should have. And enjoyed her massage, too.

Has anyone tried caif in kiev? I have seen their ad in a russian magazine, the place looks great and the girls do too?

Hecker, there hasn't been a Russian/Ukrainian 'elite' since the last Tsar got offed. Since then it's been a long line of one thug replacing another every 20 or so years usually followed with massive purges of the 'elite' so that the ruling thug could install those loyal to him.

The 'elite' generally dislikes the middle class because before they became rich thugs they were generally poor thugs. Not only that but a large and strong educated middle class is a direct threat to their criminally amassed fortune and power. And Hecker, real style and culture in the FSU comes from the middle class. Case in point, have you been to the art house in Mandarin Plaza founded by whats his name. I've seen more taste and culture at a New Jersey flea market.

Street, up until Spring 2005 you could still get a hot semi pro at RP for $100 for the night. I'd be happy if the price of oil went back down to pre war levels. Look for it to drop when the petro president leaves office next year (good riddance to that pile of crap and his administration). It’s too bad slick Willie got impeached and he didn’t.

Uke, Evils has contributed some very useful information but personally I think he's a wanker. Luckily my opinion doesn't count for anything.


[QUOTE=Hecker]I totally agree with Evilx.You simply do not understand slavic and russian-ukrainian mentality(with all their differences) as Evil does.Russian and ukrainian elite simply hates the middle class,they represent in their view the most low class taste,average mass lack of style,lack of culture etc.They like freedom a lot more than their western counterparts even if it involves violating the rights of common people that in the west are taken for granted.[/QUOTE]

CD,

I'm beginning to take to your posts, even if they are a bit on the aggresive side.

Worldwide, I'd say true 'class' has little to no connection with wealth and/or societal position. You can be rich, with zero class, or dirt poor, with a very respectable level of class. In the FSU, I'd tend to agree - the majority of people with class generally tend to come from the struggling lower economic echelons.

As for Bush, and the Republicans in general, It seems odd that they lay claim to be economically conservative, yet everytime they gain power, the economy goes into tailspin, and the Federal debt skyrockets.

Wasn't the whole idea of going into Iraq to get cheap oil? What the hell happened with that?

CD - you mean the 'Petuchark' (or something like that) gallery?

I've avoided it altogether - there is always such a long line, I figure it must truly suck!

The name is Victor PINCHUK, and he is ex-president Kuchma's son-in-law and robber baron big time.

Now you understand how he made his grivna. It did not come by working for it and earning it the honest way.

Then again, no one here is honest so why should he be any different.

The gallery is known as the Pinchuk Art Centre, his way to a small measure of legitimacy. He is trying to emulate the Russian merchants of the 19th Century such as Tretyakov and others but they had intelligence and good taste, culture and education, something he and his colleagues lack big time and will never have.

[quote=uke boy]the name is victor pinchuk, and he is ex-president kuchma's son-in-law and robber baron big time.

now you understand how he made his grivna. it did not come by working for it and earning it the honest way.

then again, no one here is honest so why should he be any different.

the gallery is known as the pinchuk art centre, his way to a small measure of legitimacy. he is trying to emulate the russian merchants of the 19th century such as tretyakov and others but they had intelligence and good taste, culture and education, something he and his colleagues lack big time and will never have.[/quote]

that's it! pinchuk!

someone explained that all to me, but in russian, so i missed the finer details (i understood it was somehow related to kuchma, but that was all....).

i don't know i'd agree that everyone is dishonest here - but it is certainly the case that hard work and honesty aren't the typical path to success in these parts, unfortunately.

the 'orange revolution' aside, i think the general populace needs to be more vocal and aggressive with their leaders. kiev parliament gives $10 billion of kiev land away to themselves/their friends for huge bribes, and not a peep out of anyone, except for the kyiv post (in english!)?!

there should be riots in the streets!

You are 100% correct SS, Some of the most intelligent PH.D's in Ukraine, I mean the people that, during the USSR, really helped advance medicine, science, technology, weapons development, education and so on, are now working in State Universities and Hospitals making 400 dollars a month, it is ridiculous, and I mean career academics, with multiple degrees. At the same time you have hookers making 2000 US a month or more, or government officials lining their pockets through corruption and bribery.

The sad thing is, to those that travel the world, we see this EVERYWHERE, Latin America, the US, all over Easter Europe, Europe, Asia and so on. Same shit different day.

The " Orange " revolution was a joke. It only traded greater Russian influence and integration for greater EU and US influence and interference. Only time will tell which is better and which is worse. So far these Orange cronies are looking to be worse and much more likely to suspend the constitution and quickly hurl the country into political chaos in order to maintain power. But, we will see.

Regards,

E-Z[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Uke, Evils has contributed some very useful information but personally I think he's a wanker. Luckily my opinion doesn't count for anything.[/QUOTE]The feeling is mutual, the difference is I don't have to send harassing emails and continuously repeat the same sentiments over and over again.

Street,

Riots in the street here will happen when bread rise to 5 grivna for a "baton." If inflation is not controlled and food prices continue their steady rise, watch out, there will be trouble.

After 75 years of Communism, the average citizen has had his fill of politics. They knew they were robbed (and more than once though bank and currency manipulations) in Soviet days. They know that they are being robbed now but just feel there is nothing they as individuals can do about it, let alone head into the streets to protest as a group.

There have been protests of one sort or another at City Hall, the Rada and many other ministries. The end result: 0

The politicians as well as bureaucrats of all political colors are about as responsive as a piece of granite. This will not change under what may be the new Timoshenko government. Even Yushchenko and his American wife are corrupt, dishonest and incompetent. I saw an article recently that said Ukraine is now what Italy was in the 50s. I am beginning to believe it.

Besides, the real riots should be in response to the higher prices now thrown at us the by the ladies of the various agencies. Now THAT really is a crime!

Kucma did only this positive thing. He controlled the prices. After the orange revolution everything skyrocketed. In Kiev you feel that you always overpay or pay for air, for nothing of value.

Actually Evils you do, all the time. This is the first time I called you a wanker and I sent you a private message explaining how intolerant Ukrainians can be, which really had no place in this forum.

You keep running around like chicken little saying Cruiser D is insulting me, picking on me. The only person slinging personal insults on a non stop basis is you.

I am sure your reports on western orientated ho'ing helped the noobies but it wasn't anything new GIA, Vodka and all the other western agencies have been covered at one time or another. But it does help to have someone post them every half year or so. I see you also posted your own report to the 'reports of distinction' thread, is that the sound of one hand clapping?


[QUOTE=Evilz632]
E-ZThe feeling is mutual, the difference is I don't have to send harassing emails and continuously repeat the same sentiments over and over again.[/QUOTE]

I have spent a week in Kiev and will report my experiences. The first 3 days I was together with a “girlfriend” – and I had a great time. When she left me, I was on my own for 4 days and nights. Now it is almost 2 years since I had time to check out Kiev by myself. I have been there many times in the meantime, but always together with some girlfriend – except for a a single night now and then.

I had the pleasure to call Mystery Tramp. After a couple of days when we never could get our schedules to click, we met. What to say? She has been discussed quite a lot in this forum. We were together 4-5 hours, fucking, talking, drinking vodka! She is a strange mixture of hardcore ***** and still in some ways an almost innocent girl in her talking and behaviour. After some very professional start she got more into it: was it me or the vodka? And when she really gets going – she really gets going! That girl can suck dick!! All in all, a big pleasure!

I also dined and wined a very hot girl for 2 evenings. She even managed to get me on a shopping trip – and all of the sudden I once more realized that the nonpros are more expensive than the pros. And I did not get any pussy! But she is in reserve till the next time!

In advance I had contacted this girl by e-mail:
[url]http://www.europedates.com/mprofile.php?id=6588&index=40&pg=2&sexe=1&photo=0[/url]
She wants to see your picture and she is rather selective with whom she meets. Euro 300 for all night. She is a sophisticated girl, expects to be wined and dined in expensive restaurants as a part of the package, so you can add USD 100+. Fluent English, to be recommended.

I also sent for a girl from flirt.ru who advertised “intim for money”. It was another girl trhan on the pictures coming. Against better knowledge I still accepted her (USD 70 for 1 hour). It was a waste. Cheaper to masturbate!!

I was one night in Millenium strip club. My feeling was that quality of the strippers had gone down since my last viist maybe 2 years ago when they all were stunners (almost!). But there was this stunning girl whom I had been with 2-3 years ago, shortly after she had started to strip. We were together at that time several nights (also on her free nights), we had fantastic sex together, I remember I got so horny only to see this fantastic body moving in my bed. With this memory I took her out again, it costs USD 500! Crazy maybe? But this was a depressing experience. Maybe the lesson is: let the past be the past? I should not try to get back a previous great experience? Years of dancing and fucking a lot of guys had done something bad to her. The first time we met she was really into it, we clicked and everything was like with a fantastic girlfriend. Now she only did BJ with condom, I was not allowed to give her oral, and everything was rather mechanical. I remember the first time we met, she told me she made 3-4000 dollars a month and maybe fucked one guy per week. Now she made close to10 000 dollars a month! Since she makes around 2500 from tips etc., one can make a calculation how many guys she fucks per month to get this amount of money. And she has no apartment, no car, she just spends all money on nothing (cloths, cosmetics, beauty salon, etc)! Furthermore, when looking closer at her, the years had done something bad. The body was not as toned and firm as it used to be, the breasts did not stand out perfectly as before. And she is only 24! The fate of a stripper with a hard (busy) life?

The last evening I was in Kiev I went to River Palace, I was curious about the present situation which has been described in this forum. The quality was good, and since I have not been there for 1-2 years, the girls were new for me. All girls started on USD 300. Usually looking for some young girl, dressed in rather simple clothes and looking shy was a good bet. Now I did, but this 19 years old, innocent-looking started with 300 for one hour, 600 for all night!! No way. I discussed with several and yes, it was 300 for 1-2 hours. The prices have escalated. I remember the happy days when it was 150 and one could often easily get it down to 100. However, with the low dollar, in fact the price has not increased that much for us who don’t have dollar as our native currency.

I am not interested in waiting until 3 am and see who is left, I prefer to have an early start and then stay with the girl longer if everything works out well. Now it was midnight and I ended up going with a very sweet girl (USD 300 for 4 hours). This was great luck! We became completely lovers, passionate sex multiple times and she stayed till morning. For me it was only to pack and go to the airport.

What to say as a conclusion: Still lots of pussy available in Kiev, but prices are going up. We can take it or leave it! And I have this weakness for the Slavic girls, they are so passionate when they get going. And nobody gives oral the way they do it!

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

Evil,

There are lots of folks with advanced degrees here, and I agree they make a pittance. But if they are so smart, then

1: Why are they still here when many of their colleagues are now in the USA, Europe, Israel or even in Russia doing much better than they are?

2: Why is this country and its government and laws all screwed up? How did the really really stupid become the political elite?

Last and not least,

3: Why is it that when a Ukrainian gets behind the wheel of a car, no matter his age, IQ, profession, etc., he turns into a severely retarded and no-IQ moron and who then drives no better and to my mind worse than most Egyptians, Pakistanis and many, many other third world citizens? There isn't a Ukrainian who doesn't consider himself smart and capable so why is his driving ability so deformed?

As for smart, the real smart guys are the bureaucrats who take and take and take without getting caught. They are the real geniuses using the system to benefit themselves.

The hookers I have no problem with, they do give a service we all want and need. I hope that they make as much money as they can while they can - at reasonable rates, naturally! Many, if not most, do it well, but there are also some rotten apples.

As for the political chaos here, my feeling is that for now it can only benefit Russia. It does not help the West and certainly does not help Ukraine most of all. In this uncertain political climate, only Russian companies are willing to "invest" (or steal at good prices) in Ukraine or Ukrainian businesses. Right now, they are doing it big time.

Risk-averse western companies will stay away except for the mega-corporations. When the dust finally settles and not for quite some time to come, I suspect we will see most of Ukraine transformed into an autonomous "guberniya."

The present political elite, orange, blue or any other color, are simply too incompetent and avaricious to care anything about their country and their people.

[QUOTE=Street Sleuth]All this may seem irrelevant to the thread, but it is really spot on. Not that I encourage or invite economic depression, but when it happens, life in Ukraine will be even more interesting for us expats....fewer rich Ukrainians to compete with, more unemployed girls, cheaper apartment rents....[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ash101]Whoring will continue to be the best career path for women in UA for quite some time. No worries there. To be honest it probably is here in London too, but their rates (GBP 1000 per night) are somewhat out of my league [/QUOTE]
Let's keep focussed on the good news!
The Ukrainian economic rollercoaster should knock some sense into the dyevs that have come to think it is beneath their dignity to fuck foreigners for modest financial gains. Unfortunately, once they have tasted $300-$500 per night, it will be difficult to bring them back to reality!

The reality is that it is still difficult, almost impossible, for ordinary girls to make ends meet, and the easiest way to fix that, or taste the good life, is a night on the town with a generous foreigner. And their best ticket to stability and happiness is a ticket to the west... for which they have to fuck a lot of frogs in order to find their prince!

[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel]...And their best ticket to stability and happiness is a ticket to the west... for which they have to fuck a lot of frogs in order to find their prince![/QUOTE]
Ribbit.... :)

Anything else?

What a total loser.

E-Z

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Actually Evils you do, all the time. This is the first time I called you a wanker and I sent you a private message explaining how intolerant Ukrainians can be, which really had no place in this forum.

You keep running around like chicken little saying Cruiser D is insulting me, picking on me. The only person slinging personal insults on a non stop basis is you.

I am sure your reports on western orientated ho'ing helped the noobies but it wasn't anything new GIA, Vodka and all the other western agencies have been covered at one time or another. But it does help to have someone post them every half year or so. I see you also posted your own report to the 'reports of distinction' thread, is that the sound of one hand clapping?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Uke Boy]Evil,

There are lots of folks with advanced degrees here, and I agree they make a pittance. But if they are so smart, then

1: Why are they still here when many of their colleagues are now in the USA, Europe, Israel or even in Russia doing much better than they are?[/QUOTE] I think you were missing my point, I don't really care what they can earn in Germany, that goes without saying that they can make more abroad, but for those that don't want to leave their homes and families, it is irrelevant. I was talking about the salaries HERE in Kiev, ergo the thread " Kiev ". I just find it pathetic a career academic that has been working 30-40 years straight, is only making 400-500 US a month, while politicians and hookers make thousands, And I don't begrudge a hooker her 2000 a month I just think academics should be making at least as much. But whatever that's the current governments priorities for you. [QUOTE=Uke Boy]2: Why is this country and its government and laws all screwed up? How did the really really stupid become the political elite? [/QUOTE] I think you could replace the country and ask that EXACT same question about ANY country, or is " Dubya " a member of mensa ?[QUOTE=Uke Boy]3: Why is it that when a Ukrainian gets behind the wheel of a car, no matter his age, IQ, profession, etc., he turns into a severely retarded and no-IQ moron and who then drives no better and to my mind worse than most Egyptians, Pakistanis and many, many other third world citizens? There isn't a Ukrainian who doesn't consider himself smart and capable so why is his driving ability so deformed?[/QUOTE]Well, I have to agree with your general assessment here, many Ukrainians are bad drivers. But that is Ukraine, learn to deal with it, because bi*tching about it won't change a thing, and BTW, I am a GREAAAT driver. ;)[QUOTE=Uke Boy]As for the political chaos here, my feeling is that for now it can only benefit Russia. It does not help the West and certainly does not help Ukraine most of all. In this uncertain political climate, only Russian companies are willing to "invest" (or steal at good prices) in Ukraine or Ukrainian businesses. Right now, they are doing it big time.[/QUOTE]I would have to say I think you are wrong here, any type of friction between Ukraine and Russia is to the wests advantage, just look at 2005-2006 all those disputes about gas was used endlessly by the US to try to discredit Russia, even though it was Ukraine that no longer wanted to play ball with Russia yet still wanted subsidized gas prices, they wanted their cake and and wanted to eat it too and in the end they weren't willing to pay for any of it, and Russia got the blame. So I disagree, anytime that Russia has conflict with Ukraine it is good for the west( at least rhetorically ). I mean, it's like the US cutting funding for countries where an opposition leader has won an election against a US funded candidate, you don't see Russia flying into said region and whining about it do you ? I don't think so, It is laughable how rhetorical that country is. [QUOTE=Uke Boy]The present political elite, orange, blue or any other color, are simply too incompetent and avaricious to care anything about their country and their people.[/QUOTE]I have to agree with this assessment, though I definitely think that the same applies with many countries in the world, including the US, politicians are no longer beholden to their electorate, they are beholden to money and financial interests, and not always national interests. Politicians are beholden to multinationals and their home grown wealthy elite, and this is WRONG, but it is reality. Though I agree, I wish I didn't see it in Ukraine, but I would be blind if I didn't say I saw the same thing in the US or Latin America. Whats good for GM is good for America after all, right ? This is the age of the McElections. But that is what Capitalism is all about.

Way off topic but interesting banter,

Regards,

Evil Z

[QUOTE=Uke Boy]Street,

Riots in the street here will happen when bread rise to 5 grivna for a "baton." If inflation is not controlled and food prices continue their steady rise, watch out, there will be trouble.

After 75 years of Communism, the average citizen has had his fill of politics. They knew they were robbed (and more than once though bank and currency manipulations) in Soviet days. They know that they are being robbed now but just feel there is nothing they as individuals can do about it, let alone head into the streets to protest as a group.

There have been protests of one sort or another at City Hall, the Rada and many other ministries. The end result: 0

The politicians as well as bureaucrats of all political colors are about as responsive as a piece of granite. This will not change under what may be the new Timoshenko government. Even Yushchenko and his American wife are corrupt, dishonest and incompetent. I saw an article recently that said Ukraine is now what Italy was in the 50s. I am beginning to believe it.

Besides, the real riots should be in response to the higher prices now thrown at us the by the ladies of the various agencies. Now THAT really is a crime![/QUOTE]

Uke - I'm all for it! Where should we riot? In front of RP? How funny would it be, to see a group of guys picketing, holding signs berating P4P inflation?

I've had this political conversation will many a local - always get the same response you've given. "Why bother? Nothing will change. Everyone's tired of fighting. etc etc". I don't know how true it is or isn't, but its a shame it ends up this way, just the same.

Hi everyone,

I will be in Kiev soon,

Did any one know which one of this hotels is better scoring to "girl franly" this mean I will not have a problem to bring in their a girl. Also the better prise, I send a e-mail to dniprohotel the cost fur on night is 198 USD, this is to hige for me.

1) President hotel. 2) kiev. Radissonsas. 3) premier-palace. 4) opera-hotel. 5) natsionalny Kiev.

Let me know and thunks

Her

Street,

I am with you!

Let's start a revolution and all of it in front of River Palace.

Then when we get tired of looking like total fools, we can go inside, have a few drinks at the bar and then drown our sorrows and our lost cause in the bosoms of some caring local ladies. Perhaps they might later blow a song or two on some "flutes" we may have to offer them all night long.

This last scenario has an almost 100% chance of success than anyone here trying to get the local, regional or national governments to change.

All power to the hookers! Вся Власть Простититуткам!

Russians are the only ones who can benefit by agreement with Ukrainians because they know all the tricks the Ukrainians use in negotiations. Westerners are completely ignorant.

In my opinion Evilz views are valuable because they represent the opinion of an insider,not an expat,who may think in different terms about the same situations.His opinions are very realistic,it is exactly what you meet in Ukraine.

We cannot express it that good cause we share common western way of thinking.

Maybe we should start discussing mongering again? The discussion during the last few days does not lead anywhere?

[blue]============================================

Gentlemen,

The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange of information between Men on the subject of finding Women for Sex.

Thank You,

Jackson[/blue]

[QUOTE=Her555]Hi everyone,

I will be in Kiev soon,

Did any one know which one of this hotels is better scoring to "girl franly" this mean I will not have a problem to bring in their a girl. Also the better prise, I send a e-mail to dniprohotel the cost fur on night is 198 USD, this is to hige for me.

1) President hotel. 2) kiev. Radissonsas. 3) premier-palace. 4) opera-hotel. 5) natsionalny Kiev.

Let me know and thunks

Her[/QUOTE]

I have never actually stayed in a hotel in Kiev, but from what I know, they will all be in that price range - at least the nicer ones which you listed (and even more expensive, to tell the truth).

The highest end hotels won't bother you. The cheapest hotels will block entrance and/or demand some sort of bribe.

Best bet is to go with a daily apartment - best value in these parts.

PS - this is directly related to mongering. If you don't first find a place to stay in Kiev, its really hard to hook up!

I would try the Lybid Hotel for your first stay- it is a shithole for 90-100$ / night, but then you know it is a shithole and you can cope with it.If you go for a double room and bring in girls or have girls come to you, it is no problem at all. if you book a single, you are cheaper, but then you need to sign the girls in and pay the difference every night. so go for double.

Then after your first visit, go for apartment since you will know your way around, you have learned to live with the dark holes and the fun places and be on your own feet. Otherwise, you can also try a website-based apartment service who take care of apartment and the furniture (sexy girls) and airport pickup and so on. but they are expensive, too.

[QUOTE=Her555]Hi everyone,

I will be in Kiev soon,

Did any one know which one of this hotels is better scoring to "girl franly" this mean I will not have a problem to bring in their a girl. Also the better prise, I send a e-mail to dniprohotel the cost fur on night is 198 USD, this is to hige for me.

1) President hotel. 2) kiev. Radissonsas. 3) premier-palace. 4) opera-hotel. 5) natsionalny Kiev.

Let me know and thunks

Her[/QUOTE]


If you look at Gia site at this link

[url]http://www.gia.com.ua/hotels/[/url]

you will find all the answers. One of the few, two three, with absolutely NO GIRLS is hotel Ukraina. So mind that even in a beautiful position and a facinating Stalin era building.

IT

[QUOTE=Hecker]Kucma did only this positive thing. He controlled the prices. After the orange revolution everything skyrocketed. In Kiev you feel that you always overpay or pay for air, for nothing of value.[/QUOTE]I think that every thing is under control in Ukraine. Europian Union is waiting. Hotels are expensive. Rent a flat!

A few posts have mentioned "sponsoring" college students.- for a few weeks, weekends, whatever. It was suggested that a number of girls 18-22 years old might be interested in such an arrangement and would say so on a web site like flirt.com. Ua. My vocabulary in Russian is small. (I can read stuff like: "I live with my family. " "I don't have kids but I would like to. " etc.)

Can anyone tell me what word or phrases I should look for?

Many thanks,

Moliere

[QUOTE=Moliere]A few posts have mentioned "sponsoring" college students.- for a few weeks, weekends, whatever. It was suggested that a number of girls 18-22 years old might be interested in such an arrangement and would say so on a web site like flirt.com. Ua. My vocabulary in Russian is small. (I can read stuff like: "I live with my family. " "I don't have kids but I would like to. " etc.)

Can anyone tell me what word or phrases I should look for?

Many thanks,

Moliere[/QUOTE]
Words like "hochu naiti sponsora/Хочу найти спонсора" meaning: "i'm looking for a sponsor".

There isn't much mystery to it.

Wally, Hotel Lybid is kind of out of the way unless you plan on spending a lot of time at the train station.

It must of been a great location when 111 was still open. ;)

Please, read my question with patience. .

I heard some prostitutes talking about their job starting in brothels. I am not sure brothels are dirty and dangerous places and I think there are nice and cheap girls in brothels too. Now everything has become expensive in Kiev and so I think to have a look in brothels, just to have an idea

My question is: where are brothels in Kiev? Brothels look like a government secret in Ukraine.

Thank you for help to us.

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]Can anyone give a price quote (average) for an apartment in Kiev for say, a week? Also, when I'm not poon-hunting, what historical sites are there to see in Kiev? I was told it's the oldest city in "Russia".[/QUOTE]It´s an good choice to go to kiew. Kiew is an very nice place, as all citys in Ukraine.
A must visite should be, parliamant, opera, main streat (there are very cool bars and restaurants) and many more. I will send you some pics from kiew if you want.

Kind regards

[QUOTE=Moliere]A few posts have mentioned "sponsoring" college students.- for a few weeks, weekends, whatever. It was suggested that a number of girls 18-22 years old might be interested in such an arrangement and would say so on a web site like flirt.com. Ua. My vocabulary in Russian is small. (I can read stuff like: "I live with my family. " "I don't have kids but I would like to. " etc.)

Can anyone tell me what word or phrases I should look for?

Many thanks,

Moliere[/QUOTE]

I've seen discussions of this kind before - paying a girl to hang for a week or so - I really don't see it as terribly viable.

The options I know of:

nonpro: Anything is theoretically possible. No rules. But blunt money for sex generally doesn't fly. Same the world over.

semi-pro: Basically same pricing as a pro - price is per hour, or per night, but working volume is much lower (maybe once a weekend, instead of 3 times a night). If she likes you, you can perhaps arrange a longer period - weekend, week, whatever - but she's probably only going to consider liking you if she thinks you'll be in town for more than a week anyway.

pro: Simple. Price per hour, per night.....I suppose per week/weekend - but we're talking outrageous cash, to hang out with a girl you really won't want to have around that long anyway.

Now, as for the 'sponsoring' thing. I'm far from an expert on this - but my take is that these are basically semi-pros that want to restrict themselves to one - or a minimal number, anyway - 'boyfriend/s'. Fee is monthly, and it ain't cheap. The deal is kind of like, "I'll be your secret girlfriend, for a monthly fee". The deal makes sense for rich, married, local men. For the rest of us, I'm not so sure....

[QUOTE=Street Sleuth]Now, as for the 'sponsoring' thing. I'm far from an expert on this - but my take is that these are basically semi-pros that want to restrict themselves to one - or a minimal number, anyway - 'boyfriend/s'. Fee is monthly, and it ain't cheap. The deal is kind of like, "I'll be your secret girlfriend, for a monthly fee". The deal makes sense for rich, married, local men. For the rest of us, I'm not so sure....[/QUOTE]
Essentially true, but many sponsor-seeking girls will accept some part-time work... a few hours, a day, a weekend... to keep cash flow in between real sponsors or get some extra cash on the side.

Sponsor seeking girls aren't prostitutes and yes they are. Hard to define, but essentially they are girls who sell their loyalty for cash and presents. Considering the alternatives available to them... giving up their sex for nothing to some drunken loser schmo who makes $200 a month at the brick factory, you can't really blame them for at least getting some money, some nights out on the town, holiday vacations and some presents for their sex. More importantly, if they are sponsored they get to hang out in the right circles were they might meet somebody offering more permenant arrangements.

You can ask any girl seeking sponsorship if she is looking for part-time work but:

a) she often isn't cheaper than a normal pro
b) she will be pretty choosy about who she goes with

These are girls who are prostitutes of sorts but would never admit to it, they are something "better" than that. They are just poor girls who need "help" to pay the tuition or whatever. Unlike pros from RP or salons, they are more choosy about whom they accept as a customer for a number of reasons.

I agree with SS though, for most of us it doesn't make much sense as value for money is often worse with this option than simple pro sex. Just my two bits.

[QUOTE=Moliere]A few posts have mentioned "sponsoring" college students.- for a few weeks, weekends, whatever. It was suggested that a number of girls 18-22 years old might be interested in such an arrangement and would say so on a web site like flirt.com. Moliere[/QUOTE]I have sponsored several girls throughout the 6 years that I travelled regularly to Ukraine, both in Kiev and in Odessa. Common for them has been:

1. I had met the girls in some connection already before the question of sponsorship came up.

2. Most of them were semipros - we had met where I paid for the hour. They all wanted to stop picking up guys for money, they only did this infrequently to be able to continue their studies, to get a new coat, or.....

3. I had met them repeated times and in some ways we "clicked", then the question of sponsorship came up. In most cases I asked about sponsorship .

4. None of my sponsored girls regarded themselves as prostitutes, they were just "a girl who had a man who helped her". And this is nmore or less regarded as the duty of a man in Ukraine "if they are together".

5. The amount I have paid has been variable. One girl I paid USD 300/month to cover her rent - she was a student - and we had this for a year, we were both also "a little in love". During that period I was once every 1-2 months in Kiev, so it was a good financial situation also for me.

6. I have had girls that I paid up to USD 1000/month, however, these were exceptions. Like for instance I am for 4 days in kiev and I know that next month I will be there for a week - and this girl is really hot - and I like her - and sometimes my heart is weak against better knowledge... such amounts have only been for 1-3 months.

7. With all girls I have also had an emotional relationship, I enjoyed them in bed and out of bed, I really cared for them. I also think they had the same for me - and officially they told me I was the only one:)) - which I think was correct for some of them, for others not.

8. All the girls I have sponsored have expressed that they only want to cover for their studies, their rent, and a very reasonable living. Those that express they need a lot of money for beauty salons, make-up etc., they are paid by the hour:)).

9. However, the girls that want thousands of dollars per month they have difficulties in finding some sponsor, after all there are more hot girls than rich Ukrainians:))

10. Most girls I give money per month either I am in Ukraine or not. However, others I just give a clump sum for the time we are together and then not until we meet again. Of course these girls have others when I am not there.

11. If you travel frequently to Ukraine this is at least for me a great solution. It has in many situations been like have some very horny, sexy, hot girlfriends - and their abilities in the sex department have been thoroughly tested before any sponsorship is discussed. It is for me absolutely necessary that we have a good time also out of bed and intellectually. Therefore I never sponsor until we had "some test runs".

12. When I am there, I have the undivided attention of a girl I love to fuck and whose company I enjoy. Sometimes we are together 24 hours a day, having sex for morning, lunch, afternoon, night. Sometimes she is away for some hours to university, sometimes I am away for my business. usually they do some kitchen and food work - I have even had my shirts ironed!

13. But I have also been cheated by a couple of girls...

14. A couple of girls I have had with me on travels outside Ukraine.

15. Sometimes you also give the "unavoidable gift", so financially it is more expensive that to get some hooker you have sex with a for a couple of hours. But maybe I am a romantic fool:)), the whole part, at least believing there is tenderness and some emotions is very good...:))

Overall conclusion: Unless you want to fuck as many girls as possible over a short time, to have a sponsored girl is usually great! At least for me! But we are different!

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Wally, Hotel Lybid is kind of out of the way unless you plan on spending a lot of time at the train station.

It must of been a great location when 111 was still open. ;)[/QUOTE]Cruiser,

I said it is cheap! And Rus is far further. And it is a good and save 8 Min walk from Arena. And it is cheap. And it has sushi next door. And a good supermarket to buy booze. Actually, the train station is NOT a bad place at all to find the right girl as GF, but wake up early and see all the hotties flood the city!

OK, so I've learned that the Russian word for "sponsor" is "sponsor." Thanks for the hints. Maybe I should have guessed. Actually, I found out pretty quickly following links to the dating sites listed here.

I don't feel too bad since the Russian word for money is "denghi" which comes from Mongolian and would have been hard to guess.

She is blond, she is beautiful, great tits, BIG FUCKING attitude - RP regular, smoking hot, use her, abuse her *[blue][Telephone Number deleted by Admin][/blue]

[size=-2][u][b]EDITOR's NOTE[/b][/u]: [blue]This report was edited to [u]remove personal telephone numbers[/u] in the text. Please do not post personal telephone numbers in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you for this information directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue][/size]

Herpes? :)

Just kidding, great report.

[QUOTE=Explorer69]

15. Sometimes you also give the "unavoidable gift", so financially it is more expensive that to get some hooker you have sex with a for a couple of hours. But maybe I am a romantic fool:)), the whole part, at least believing there is tenderness and some emotions is very good...:))



[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size][/QUOTE]

I’m just preparing a trip to Kiev (sexual purposes only!) and I found this two little jewels, somebody knows about them?

[url]http://www.flirt.com.ua/blondinohka89/[/url]
[url]http://www.flirt.com.ua/nika23_60/[/url]

The first one is a chubby 18teen (176/69/18, seeking for a sponsor, even if she writes differently), not a beauty at all, but must be a real pig, agreeing for everything (anal, BBBJ, photo shooting etc). As you know I prefer a pig who is a 5 rather than a 10 who is a log… somebody already knows her?

She is quite a bargain 500 USD for three days, but she made it clear that only once she can stay in the evening. So the other days she will be in my home something like 11-19… she has to go out with her boyfriend! And I will be free to go out with regulars…

The second is a pro, very similar to Mystery Tramp, skinny and blonde, named Tanya, a real pro. Nice and going for all, anal too… (+20 USD). Somebody knows her? Somebody already nailed her?

IT

[QUOTE=It Travel]The first one is a chubby 18teen (176/69/18, seeking for a sponsor, even if she writes differently), not a beauty at all, but must be a real pig, agreeing for everything (anal, BBBJ, photo shooting etc). As you know I prefer a pig who is a 5 rather than a 10 who is a log… somebody already knows her?
[/QUOTE]

IT, sorry but where the **** do you read all this from her advertisement? My Russian may be rusty, but as far as I can see she expressly limits her search to guys under 25 yo and says in her text that she is not going to consider offers of a sexual nature "...although if some what to spend their time on such malarkey, well, it's their time". The only mildly controversial thing I can find about her is that her favourite historical character is Adolph Hitler. Or have I missed something?

I met the second one last year, she is nice, I don t know about anal, but she is real, funny, and I believe you will like her.

English is not so good, but enough.

The price was 300 US $ for the night.

[QUOTE=It Travel]I’m just preparing a trip to Kiev (sexual purposes only!) and I found this two little jewels, somebody knows about them?

[url]http://www.flirt.com.ua/blondinohka89/[/url]
[url]http://www.flirt.com.ua/nika23_60/[/url]

The first one is a chubby 18teen (176/69/18, seeking for a sponsor, even if she writes differently), not a beauty at all, but must be a real pig, agreeing for everything (anal, BBBJ, photo shooting etc). As you know I prefer a pig who is a 5 rather than a 10 who is a log… somebody already knows her?

She is quite a bargain 500 USD for three days, but she made it clear that only once she can stay in the evening. So the other days she will be in my home something like 11-19… she has to go out with her boyfriend! And I will be free to go out with regulars…

The second is a pro, very similar to Mystery Tramp, skinny and blonde, named Tanya, a real pro. Nice and going for all, anal too… (+20 USD). Somebody knows her? Somebody already nailed her?

IT[/QUOTE]

$500 for three days (limited) with a chubby ok looking Ukrainian girl?! And you think it's a deal? Umm, yeah, sure. I once paid an American college student $500 for Friday night, Saturday (all), Sunday (all). She was 5'9 125lbs 36d and a total wild girl, would do anything she was told. This was two years ago in Boston. Ironicly her parents came from Kiev. :)

Priamos, I think IT mentioned he had already chatted with her.

$500 for that girl..just stop it IT.

[QUOTE=Priamos]IT, sorry but where the **** do you read all this from her advertisement? My Russian may be rusty, but as far as I can see she expressly limits her search to guys under 25 yo and says in her text that she is not going to consider offers of a sexual nature "...although if some what to spend their time on such malarkey, well, it's their time". The only mildly controversial thing I can find about her is that her favourite historical character is Adolph Hitler. Or have I missed something?[/QUOTE]


Of course... the profile is not true...

When I was asking what she was searching for this was the answer...

Блондиночка 22 октября 2007 в 12:42
деньги


So you can imagine... Do not be to easy and do not limit your search to what the publish...

IT

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]$500 for three days (limited) with a chubby ok looking Ukrainian girl?! And you think it's a deal? Umm, yeah, sure. I once paid an American college student $500 for Friday night, Saturday (all), Sunday (all). She was 5'9 125lbs 36d and a total wild girl, would do anything she was told. This was two years ago in Boston. Ironicly her parents came from Kiev. :)

Priamos, I think IT mentioned he had already chatted with her.

$500 for that girl..just stop it IT.[/QUOTE]

As told several times, I'm not in search of these faboulous 10's, but of pigs! And with a couple of weeks of chatting with this 18teen she seems a real one... It's harder and harder to find them... and if you go with a pro your 500 will not last long..

IT

[QUOTE=It Travel]Of course... the profile is not true...

When I was asking what she was searching for this was the answer...

Блондиночка 22 октября 2007 в 12:42
деньги
[/QUOTE]

Interesting. A semi-pro hiding behind Simonov quotations and a wisecracking wit. It's almost as if someone has written the ad for her - which, if she is pimped, is probably the case. I still don't understand the purpose of this lamely worded ad, though. Most potential clients will be deterred by her language - and older than 25 to start with. I'd have thought it's bad for business... unless of course she's afraid her mother/father/brother will read her ad and go ape.

[QUOTE=Priamos]Interesting. A semi-pro hiding behind Simonov quotations and a wisecracking wit. It's almost as if someone has written the ad for her - which, if she is pimped, is probably the case. I still don't understand the purpose of this lamely worded ad, though. Most potential clients will be deterred by her language - and older than 25 to start with. I'd have thought it's bad for business... unless of course she's afraid her mother/father/brother will read her ad and go ape.[/QUOTE]

By the way she do not go for overnights, and can't stay several evenings in row... she has to go out with her boyfriend or go home. She can just tell once or twice she got out with friend, may be found on flirt! ;)

I think I'll devatate her tight holes... she is not a beauty, of course, but see here... Of course you have to read it from the bottom...

Блондиночка 22 октября 2007 в 12:11
Hу тогда можно

Me: 22 октября 2007 в 12:10
No pain...

Me 22 октября 2007 в 12:08
No I do it slowly with a right lubricant... :)))

Блондиночка 22 октября 2007 в 12:06
больно

Me: 22 октября 2007 в 12:05
But i want anal!!

Блондиночка 22 октября 2007 в 12:04
традиционально

Me: 22 октября 2007 в 12:03
seems good... and in sex what do you like?


As told, she is a little blonde chubby pig searching for some money...Here pig's measurements: 84-77-98... 176/68 perfect for heavy duty anal sex!

IT

IT,

I've been with the other girl - Tanya.

The photos are real. She is a hot little thing. A hard-core pro, too - I think, for extra fees, she'd do just about anything you wanted.

[QUOTE=Street Sleuth]IT,

I've been with the other girl - Tanya.

The photos are real. She is a hot little thing. A hard-core pro, too - I think, for extra fees, she'd do just about anything you wanted.[/QUOTE]

Nice to know she is real...

IT

Dear sleuth,

How much did Tanya ask for a night with her? And above all, which services is she good at?

Thank you

[QUOTE=Street Sleuth]IT,

I've been with the other girl - Tanya.

The photos are real. She is a hot little thing. A hard-core pro, too - I think, for extra fees, she'd do just about anything you wanted.[/QUOTE]

IT,

I don't think you have read this forum recently. There was discussion about Tanya in one of the threads.

She is an old pro here. She is good at what she does, I also had the pleasure of her company about a year and a half ago.

However, she has been around for a while and she is not one of your ideal young things. You may have a good time with her but given the amount of local and visitor action she has gotten over the past several years, parts of her may now be "supersized."

[QUOTE=Uke Boy]IT,

I don't think you have read this forum recently. There was discussion about Tanya in one of the threads.

She is an old pro here. She is good at what she does, I also had the pleasure of her company about a year and a half ago.

However, she has been around for a while and she is not one of your ideal young things. You may have a good time with her but given the amount of local and visitor action she has gotten over the past several years, parts of her may now be "supersized."[/QUOTE]

But she is on flirt just now... so, may be she goes for good BBBJs... ;)

[QUOTE=It Travel]I’m just preparing a trip to Kiev (sexual purposes only!) and I found this two little jewels, somebody knows about them?

[url]http://www.flirt.com.ua/blondinohka89/[/url]
[url]http://www.flirt.com.ua/nika23_60/[/url]

The first one is a chubby 18teen (176/69/18, seeking for a sponsor, even if she writes differently), not a beauty at all, but must be a real pig, agreeing for everything (anal, BBBJ, photo shooting etc). As you know I prefer a pig who is a 5 rather than a 10 who is a log… somebody already knows her?

She is quite a bargain 500 USD for three days, but she made it clear that only once she can stay in the evening. So the other days she will be in my home something like 11-19… she has to go out with her boyfriend! And I will be free to go out with regulars…

The second is a pro, very similar to Mystery Tramp, skinny and blonde, named Tanya, a real pro. Nice and going for all, anal too… (+20 USD). Somebody knows her? Somebody already nailed her?

IT[/QUOTE]
Go for the skinny chick, the other one is fat. On the other hand, if you plan on abusing her for three days, maybe the fat one will hold out longer. You might break the skinny one. And trust me, when you break one you'll have a LOT of explaining to do.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank].... You might break the skinny one. And trust me, when you break one you'll have a LOT of explaining to do.[/QUOTE]

Doc it was too funny, thanks for making me smile ! ;)

500$ for 69 kg ??? Is it a joke ???

It is a very good bargain IT if you go to buy silver, just an example, but looking for pig, pay attention to not buy...a cow LOL !

I think she does the bargain even cause if she wrote 69kg, she will be at least 72-74 kg...but ok, a teddy (big) bear very hard to break it....

However IT I vote for the skinny one ! :)

Have fun !

[QUOTE=Lukasek]
500$ for 69 kg ??? Is it a joke ???
[/QUOTE]
I usually don't like fucking anything over 50kg... and if she is over 50kg she'd better be fucking wonder woman... voluptuous, hourglass body, mile-long legs and the whole package.

Chubby lovehandles, fat wobbly asses and cellulite are nogos on women, especially slavic women.

Do confirm that you didn't make the poor (but beautiful) girl jump from the ledge, Doc. !!!!

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Go for the skinny chick, the other one is fat. On the other hand, if you plan on abusing her for three days, maybe the fat one will hold out longer. You might break the skinny one. And trust me, when you break one you'll have a LOT of explaining to do.[/QUOTE]

Usually I go for skinny ones, like the MT, but sometimes, when real horny and like heavy duty anal girls I go, let's say so, to full figured ones! Took one in Moscow in 2006, 20-21 y.o. a real cumdrinker!

I alredy had problems (she had them) with the poor Valentina in Moscow anally devastated for a whole morning... :) a lot of pain (not in the little pink hole, that is normal, but in arms, beck etc.).

Let's say taking 1 chubby out of 6-7 skinny could be interesting, but most of all my favourtite bodies are 155-160, and 53-55 kg so they have the right meat in the right places and they are soft.. specially in tits! I like them over C cup D is better.

As told several time tastes are tastes so... I prefer a chubby so so girl, but a pig, better than some that you find at RP, just making "traditional" and CBJ...

IT

[QUOTE=Uke Boy]IT,

I don't think you have read this forum recently. There was discussion about Tanya in one of the threads.

She is an old pro here. She is good at what she does, I also had the pleasure of her company about a year and a half ago.

However, she has been around for a while and she is not one of your ideal young things. You may have a good time with her but given the amount of local and visitor action she has gotten over the past several years, parts of her may now be "supersized."[/QUOTE]

I have been travelling and working a lot... thanks in any case for the answer Uke Boy, I think I'll take her for a try in any case... It might be that i save on lubricant costs! :D

By the way how is her on BBBJ?

IT

[QUOTE=Lukasek]Doc it was too funny, thanks for making me smile ! ;)

500$ for 69 kg ??? Is it a joke ???

It is a very good bargain IT if you go to buy silver, just an example, but looking for pig, pay attention to not buy...a cow LOL !

I think she does the bargain even cause if she wrote 69kg, she will be at least 72-74 kg...but ok, a teddy (big) bear very hard to break it....

However IT I vote for the skinny one ! :)

Have fun ![/QUOTE]

In any case Lukasek I'll take both :D so I make no misstakes, yes the chubby will be hard to break... but she is intende for heavy anal work... the skinny, on ground she has so little meat will be well feeded with fresh protein :D

IT

[QUOTE=Excess]Do confirm that you didn't make the poor (but beautiful) girl jump from the ledge, Doc. !!!![/QUOTE]
No, but I punished her... in a nice way. :)

Thanks, Doc., that is a relief. :)

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]No, but I punished her... in a nice way. :)[/QUOTE]

Hi friends,

I was wondering if there is street prostitution in Kiev? If yes, which are the areas to go for? How is the price and service level? Would be great, if anyone can help.

Best Regards

Europe Hunter

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]I usually don't like fucking anything over 50kg... and if she is over 50kg she'd better be fucking wonder woman... voluptuous, hourglass body, mile-long legs and the whole package.

Chubby lovehandles, fat wobbly asses and cellulite are nogos on women, especially slavic women.[/QUOTE]

Normally I really appreciate your taste in women. And jealous as fuck of your ability to pull a nmberless no of skinny skanks. But this one? Man you can't even see her rib cage;.) ripple

IT

With Tanya and with the pros here I always go with CBJ. It is safer and far wiser given all the possible problems that could develop.

In the amateur field, I am more flexible and generally go for the BBBJ.

However, my hunting is not at all like yours on flirt and other sites where the objects of your lust can also be a hardcore pro in disguise. I can actually meet local "nice" girls who are not even semi-pros so BBBJ is just fine.

[QUOTE=Ripple67]Normally I really appreciate your taste in women. And jealous as fuck of your ability to pull a nmberless no of skinny skanks. But this one? Man you can't even see her rib cage;.) ripple[/QUOTE]
Yeah, she is kind of a fattie.. :) Maybe it was all the beer we drank. But she has a nice ass... and she shaved her pussy completely bare. I love it when you go on a first date with a chick and she's hesitant and says she doesn't "do such things" on a first date and then you get her to, you take off her panties only to discover she's smoothly shaven completely bare.

Proves once again that when she left the house, she wasn't thinking "no way in hell am I going to let him fuck me tonight" but rather "I might just fuck this guy tonight, so I'd better shave my pussy."

Persistence pays off time and again.

[QUOTE=Irish Lad]Pretty tired by now, I arranged through Inna for Nikie to come to me for a couple of hours to include anal. Pretty 22 year old blond who charges $120 for 2 hours. She speaks some English and enjoys her sex a lot.[/QUOTE]Tanya AKA Nikie is by now a seasoned pro. This is my report from the middle of last May 2006. I met her last week in 1 of the clubs and we exchanged some sms's, funnily I still had her number. For IT's purposes she's probably just what he's looking for.

IL

[QUOTE=Explorer69]I have sponsored several girls throughout the 6 years that I travelled regularly to Ukraine, both in Kiev and in Odessa. [/QUOTE]Thanks for the detailed report. I expect to be in the Ukraine for 3-6 months and, at this point, I intend to try sponsoring.

...let me disagree with you...it is not skinny ass, it is wonderful ass, the kind I could almost pay every price ;)

Great pic !

[QUOTE=Kiev Man]Bullshit!

I live here, but never saw 50 teenagers together. Only with a teacher ;)
Some time ago "skeanheads" attacked jewish church in Kiev. So cops and spetial forces didn't sleep two days, but catch them all! If something happens with citizen of US in the middle of Kiev, some police generals and colonels can have a really big troubles, and they know it.

But after football match Kiev can be a dangerous place (so why I hate this game). And not only for black people. But cops works ok, in any situation...[/QUOTE]Didn't see many blacks on my tour. No thing crazy. Everyone waas great. To me they are peaceful people. Treated me like a million bucks. Hats off the the Ukrainians.

[quote=doctor_skank]. And she shaved her pussy completely bare. I love it when you go on a first date with a chick. Off her panties only to discover she's smoothly shaven completely bare.

Proves once again that when she left the house, she wasn't thinking "no way in hell am I going to let him fuck me tonight" but rather "I might just fuck this guy tonight, so I'd better shave my pussy. "[/quote]After 7 years here in Kiev. Living with a few, fucking more. And even knowing (intimate details) about 14, 15, 16 year old daughters.

F##k, they all shave! (or at least trim).

2% at most don't!

[QUOTE=LifeSavour]After 7 years here in Kiev. Living with a few, fucking more. And even knowing (intimate details) about 14, 15, 16 year old daughters.

F##k, they all shave! (or at least trim).

2% at most don't![/QUOTE]
Yeah, I know most of them shave in different variations of "the landing strip", the "v", the completely bare and some with that ridiculously appealing mini tuft of almost nothing... but my point was another. When they are freshly shaved, as in just before the date, it suggests to me that they were shaving in preparation of what might happen... I just like the idea that even though they say they never would do it on a first date, they leave the door knowing they just might... :)

Or maybe I just think too much... :)

[QUOTE=Lukasek]...let me disagree with you...it is not skinny ass, it is wonderful ass, the kind I could almost pay every price ;)

Great pic ![/QUOTE]
Well you know I love the skinny ones, but every once in a while I like the shapely big-titted ones.

What non skanks are you guys dating?

90% of all the girls I ever fucked were shaved.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]

Well, once in a while I like the shapely big-titted ones.

[/QUOTE]

For those aforementioned times when one desires Skanky shapeliness and some mega-melons, please see below.

Here's my little going away present from Ksusha, police academy cadet in-training for interrogation techniques. Since waterboarding is verboten, motorboating das commense in the midnight hour.

After 2 solid weeks of developing new contacts, my old 2006 sim card mobile rang at 11 pm, on my last night in town after my driver and I had visited no less than 4 bordellos, where each mamachka that answered the phone bragged that her girls were young and very kraseyvya & hoodinka spakoyny. Each place, as we crossed the city back and forth, had some very below average 22 to 26 year old sub-acceptable candidates, that I just could not lower my standards down to, in a state of un-drunkenness, and especially not so for my final night? No, that is just not done.

Fuggly ho's of every size, shape, and hair color, including one semi-midget blondinka, and one 6 foot 10 inch mongoloid-looking behemoth creature-ette that I told I would come back for and fuck her when I was ready to pick up a basketball match and needed someone on my team to dunk.

Anyway, there is Ksusha calling me, I mst have tried calling her about 10 days earlier, and had told her, without really being able to exactly remember who the hell she was, that I'd get around to calling her again when I wasn't busy. I guess I stayed busy so long, I never did call her, but like a sort of imperfect ending to a wild and crazy story, she's calling me now that I'm packing my suitcase, having given up for my last night and almost in relief, resigned myself to one actual real night of more than 2 hours sleep. I told told her to grab a taxi and come over, and she said, without a moment's hesitation, ok! So I guess she must recall who the hell I was. Gave her my address, 20 minutes later, this is what shows up at the door.

Not bad really, especially for not even being sure which dyev she actualy was, basically having forgotten any intimacies we'd had together, and for all I know, could have even been from 2005. Who can possibly keep this stuff straight from year to year, eh? :p

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Proves once again that when she left the house, she wasn't thinking "no way in hell am I going to let him fuck me tonight" but rather "I might just fuck this guy tonight, so I'd better shave my pussy."[/QUOTE]
Excellent observation, Doc. You're sooo right. If you're wearing jeans or stockings and going out with no intention of sleeping with someone, it's easy to think "I won't bother shaving - nobody's gonna be seeing it". But if there's even the slightest chance that someone might be gonna see you naked, you make double sure that everything is smooth and sexy.

Freshly shaved pink bits are a sure sign that your (non-pro) gal was planning on showing you her wares at some point during the night.

Listen to the master, boys. The Doc knows what he's talking about. ;)

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]
Listen to the master, boys. The Doc knows what he's talking about. ;)[/QUOTE]
You're too kind RN. Imagine me blushing.. :)

[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]Who can possibly keep this stuff straight from year to year, eh? :p[/QUOTE]
Take notes, take pictures and most of all, write about it on ISG. It's really the only way. Either that or tattoos.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]

post all about it on ISG.

It's really the way.

[/QUOTE]

For those of you who do not subscribe to this philosophy, you are ALL lost. This IS the way to make ISG a true window on the world of pussy, and set it apart from all the other useless bullshit out there. For those of you out there that aren't bringing your experiences out in the open to share here with your brothers, well, you're not really part of this brotherhood, you're just another poser, and we all know who you are.

More leisure activities.

[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]For those of you who do not subscribe to this philosophy, you are ALL lost. This IS the way to make ISG a true window on the world of pussy, and set it apart from all the other useless bullshit out there. For those of you out there that aren't bringing your experiences out in the open to share here with your brothers, well, you're not really part of this brotherhood, you're just another poser, and we all know who you are.
[/QUOTE]
All must listen to Bez.

Post your experiences... good, bad...whatever. It's all good for the Cause.

I couldn't have gone into Kiev without the knowledge shared on this forum. I didn't have to ask where to go, I knew were to go!

When I was in a unfamiliar part of town about 8 miles from city center I didn't panic! I called a taxi service, found a dispatcher that spoke English and I soon found myself hangin with Telos@112. I caught the eye of a young Ukrainian girl and she smiled. But she played the "shy" bit and I wanted to meet Telos, that gives you a small window to how many attractive women were in Kiev, you can toss them back and find better if you put in the effort.

I cannot share any pictures because I am not a picture taking fool to be confused with the stereotyping of Asians with Cameras you see on vacation anywhere in the world. I took some pictures but none you would be interested in.

Doc, I couldn't have done it without you.

Bez, your funnier than shiet but man you need to invest in a better camera.

That grainy looking shiet won't get you can prizes from National Geographic, but I can not fault you on the subject matter of your pictures, so keep on snappin homie.

[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]I couldn't have gone into Kiev without the knowledge shared on this forum. I didn't have to ask where to go, I knew were to go!
[/QUOTE]
That's what it's all about. If you've got info, a story... post it. It will be valuable to somebody.

We've had mention of a number of dating web sites as a place to line up contacts before a trip. I have not been to the Ukraine mongering, but I can make this summary report based on online research:

Flirt.com. Ua.- has been mentioned by many here. Certainly a large selection. There is a floating question of how to use the pay features if you can't charge it to your UA SMS. You can use Webmoney, but that site is in Russian too and I have not seen an English explanation on how to make it work.

Love. I. Ua.- does not seem to be as big as Flirt or singles. Ru, but it has been big advantages for newbies. First, you can configure the interface in English so you don't need a dictionary to figure out "sex for 1-2 times. " Second, the extended search function is free (unlike Flirt above) so you can use criteria like "I want to find a sponsor" without charge. Important Note: You can ONLY select the English version when you first fill out your profile, so pay attention to the drop down choices. Your choices at that point will be Russian, Ukrainian, English and Albanian! I hope you know the Russian alphabet well enough to choose correctly.

Singles. Ru.- another very large site. Entirely in Russia which slows some of us down. (After two months of classes at the community college level, I still have to struggle). Extended search allows "sex for 1-2 nights, " "Seeking a sponsor" "Group sex" and other interesting criteria; but, as with Flirt above, it also requires payment via WebMoney, which is in Russian. (Search this forum for a discussion of how to pay via SMS if you have a UA SIM card).

Dating. Meta. Ua.- Seems reasonably big, but has not been discussed in this forum. The extended search function is free: you can spot the relatively small number of girls asking for sponsors ("? "). It's all in Russian. There's a detailed section on sexual preferences and some girls check the boxes for how many times a day, and whether they like leather or latex, but again, these fine distinctions are revealed only with a dictionary. 2gether.com. Ua.- might be a good place for newbies to start because you can switch back and forth between the English and Russian interface. A good way to learn the basic terminology without tedious reliance on the dictionary. A big disappointment: after you switch to English and hit the link for "Help" the FAQ comes up entirely in Russian. Seems to be a much smaller datebase, and much more orientated to dating than mongering. You get 600 credits free and you can use them over 60 days before you have to pay. I have not yet figured out how you pay and whether it has the same problems as Flirt with SMS and WebMoney.

Thelovetour. Ru.- Seems to have a very small number of profiles. Some of the pro's put listing on this site and give you a disguised URL to put in your browser. Looks like TheLoveTour is the same database as singles. Ru. The "extended search" is really primitive: just the country and city with the choices of Single/Married/Divorced. I have not figured out the payment function and I don't know that it's worth the time to figure out.- unless someone else highly recommends this site.

There are sites, and some might be interesting, but I will wait for someone to recommend a site before trying to figure it out. By then, my Russian should improve as well.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

Moliere, most of the Ukrainian/Russian dating sites use the same database. Singles.ru, mamba and flirt are all one in the same.

All the Russian I understand is from what I learned traveling to the Ukraine. Between that, online translators and a deep understanding of websites I have no problem using flirt.com.ua .

On the other hand I like to refer to flirt.com.ua as flake.com.ua . You have to use a lot of bandwidth before you find a girl who actually meets you - p4p exluded.

Hey Doc, in those last pics is that girl sporting implants?

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]
Hey Doc, in those last pics is that girl sporting implants?[/QUOTE]
Nope, all floppy, all natural.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Moliere, most of the Ukrainian/Russian dating sites use the same database. Singles.ru, mamba and flirt are all one in the same.

All the Russian I understand is from what I learned traveling to the Ukraine. Between that, online translators and a deep understanding of websites I have no problem using flirt.com.ua .

On the other hand I like to refer to flirt.com.ua as flake.com.ua . You have to use a lot of bandwidth before you find a girl who actually meets you - p4p exluded.

Hey Doc, in those last pics is that girl sporting implants?[/QUOTE]

Some sites do use the same database...

Bride.ru has some nice looking girls until you get to the free gallery. Sure you can get their address for free, but would you want it?

You can find better looking women in whatever country you come from, really.

Now if I could only pull the kinda girls the Doctor pulls...

I found this site useful - [url]http://www.no1reviews.com/Mail-Order-Brides.html[/url]

Hi all,

In Kiev mid-December, what is the good hotel to stay in with included bar/club with P4P?

Thanks

[QUOTE=Samsarai]Hi all,

In Kiev mid-December, what is the good hotel to stay in with included bar/club with P4P?

Thanks[/QUOTE]You will get the info from reading the threads. Your best bet is hotels with strip clubs inside (Dnepr has Millenium but it costs USD 500!). Then there are strip clubs in either Presidente or premier Palace - I was never there so I am not certain which one - but read the threads here! However, I think those girls are even more expensive! Unless you are on a company account, it is far better to have a luxury apartment for half price and pick girls from other places.

[QUOTE=Explorer69]

You go to strip clubs it costs USD 500.

The best option but I think the girls are even more expensive!

Use a company account, its far better a luxury for a price and pick girls from the places.

[/QUOTE]

I mean, other than the official government accounts ;)that everyone knows are needed to do "business":D, that is, when some government wants or needs something:(, and the agreed upon arrangements include paying for prostitutes:), which is of course illegal, but of course this is government business, so of course, then the laws don't need to be followed, of course:p.

[QUOTE=Explorer69]You will get the info from reading the threads. Your best bet is hotels with strip clubs inside (Dnepr has Millenium but it costs USD 500!). Then there are strip clubs in either Presidente or premier Palace - I was never there so I am not certain which one - but read the threads here! However, I think those girls are even more expensive! Unless you are on a company account, it is far better to have a luxury apartment for half price and pick girls from other places.[/QUOTE]Yes I will be on company account so the price of the hotel room is not really an option.

My idea is to book on internet an hotel where - like in Russia - you find those inside bars (not necessariliy strip clubs) packed with P4P and bring one up in your room for 100 usd. Do you have the same in Kiev ?

If I was on the company dime and wanted to stay at a good hotel I would stay at one of the western ones - the radisson or hyatt - not sure if they have lobby girls or not.

The only hotel that has very hot lobby girls is the Premier Palace - but they are extremely expensive. River Palace is only a short ten minute ride from downtown. You won't find any good lobby girls unless you stay at the PP and are willing to pay through the nose for it go to RP instead.

[QUOTE=Explorer69]You will get the info from reading the threads. Your best bet is hotels with strip clubs inside (Dnepr has Millenium but it costs USD 500!). Then there are strip clubs in either Presidente or premier Palace - I was never there so I am not certain which one - but read the threads here! However, I think those girls are even more expensive! Unless you are on a company account, it is far better to have a luxury apartment for half price and pick girls from other places.[/QUOTE]
Presidente has a stable of around 8 girls. Two of them are quite attractive. The general rate was $150 for 2 hours a year ago.

Having not been to Kiev since the summer and spending many hours chasing girls in Donetsk, I found myself in Kiev for the week.
I took myself Monday night to RP I arrive very early 9.30ish as I could not be bothered going all around town after a hard days work.
I went to the bar and sat at one of the island tables in the middle to watch the talent arrive. Almost at the strike of 10.30 they started to arrive, and I am never not astounded by this place, the next one better than the last.
So after way too many beers to be in the land of the sharks that is the river palace I ventured upstairs into the shark pool.
I parked myself at the bar and decided it is a great place to stand and interview, the opening gambit seems to be $400 in the summer I only remember the really good lookers opening with that but perhaps my memory is getting bad.
Anyway after a couple of hours interviewing and turing my nose up to some real darlings, a petite girl kept coming back she was sort of up my street and she open-ended with the $400 and next time came down to $300 and next to $250, anyway next time she came over I just said look you can come home with me and I will pay the taxi and no more, and she agreed!
So off we went home and she stayed the night till 10am and she did not even hit me up for any money again! Yes you are reading right a freebie from RP.
Tuesday night I was out with clients and was home by 12pm but at 2am I called the RP girl again and she was in the RP and offered to catch a cab to stay with me again, and no mention this time of even the cab fare, and who was I to turn down such an offer, and she came to me again and stayed the night. Was she good? Yes worth the money? For sure!
Wedsday night I was with customers and we ventured into Arena bar to watch the football (Manchester United), I have been here a few times with friends but have never ventured into it as a single man, it was as bad as RP not as many but virtually all the girls where working there, my customers thought it was great and one took a girl home for $150 for the night, I met some strange girl who said she only offered a massage for 50 euro I thought she was lying took her home and guess what? Yep she only did a massage. And went home.
After seeing how my customers enjoyed the Ukrainian women I decided to take them to RP on Thursday.
We had a meal down the road in a restraunt on a boat and ventured to RP around midnight, the place was jumping, the number of women was down on Monday but very high in standard my visitors where astounded at the place, and who should come walking up to me but my freebie from Monday and Tuesday, I thought here we go again and she came up slapped me on the face and told me that If I wanted a girl I should have called her and not come looking for a girl here! WTF I thought and let her walk.
A week gone in Kiev, I hope to return soon as the mongering pace there is so much faster and better the Donetsk.

River Palace (n°1) and President are now on my list!

More feed backs?

Q, your report is almost unbelievable but hey stranger things do happen. From reading you report I would assume that is a week you spent in Kiev 3-4 years ago and you are just getting around to writing about it.

BTW - the reason why RP is good on Monday night is because few clubs are open in Kiev that night.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]

I assume that is Kiev 3-4 years ago.

[/QUOTE]

You didn't say why.

Some other stuff:

[QUOTE=Samsarai]Yes I will be on company account so the price of the hotel room is not really an option.

My idea is to book on internet an hotel where - like in Russia - you find those inside bars (not necessariliy strip clubs) packed with P4P and bring one up in your room for 100 usd. Do you have the same in Kiev ?[/QUOTE]
My only experience like this was at the Hotel Mir (2.5 years ago), where they had 5 or 6 lobby girls (there was also a small strip club) and I took one of the less-bad-looking girls, dolled up in a white leather mini-skirt and boots, for $100. She looked better with her clothes on. It was my first EE experience, so I did not have any price comparisons and maybe I could have bargained better.

My point is that Hotel Mir is a dive and not some place you would want to stay if you are on company expenses and price is no object. But even there the lobby girls were over-priced for what I was getting. So if you are at a posh hotel the price structure is likely to be somewhat higher -but then hopefully the quality would be also.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Q, your report is almost unbelievable but hey stranger things do happen. From reading you report I would assume that is a week you spent in Kiev 3-4 years ago and you are just getting around to writing about it.

BTW - the reason why RP is good on Monday night is because few clubs are open in Kiev that night.[/QUOTE]

No last week! honest! I could not believe it also!

Some friends are coming to Kiev and they are into the sauna thing. I would like arrange a few hours of debauchery in a sauna. Can anybody recommend a decent sauna which orders girls for you or at least allows the customers bring girls with? Thanks!

Finally, a WG who provides exactly and fully what is on her discussed and agreed menu, no more and no less. :-))))

I would ask QJump where do you find them? But you answered that in your post. Priceless (well at least Euro 50 worth) and thanks for sharing.


[QUOTE=Qjump]t, I met some strange girl who said she only offered a massage for 50 euro I thought she was lying took her home and guess what? Yep she only did a massage. And went home.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Excess]

Finally, a WG who provides exactly what is discussed and agreed, no more and no less.

I would ask where do you find them? But you answered that.

Priceless and thanks for sharing.

[/QUOTE]

I guess you must be experiencing something unusual, since every agency WG provides exactly what is agreed on, which is the basic one-pop covered minuet and sex for the hourly rate, with the agency calling her mobile after about 45 minutes to notify that your one hour time is up.

That's not to say that something extra might be available if you ask for it or offer additional payment. But its usually not offered, YOU have to make the inquiry for extras and then a negotiation takes place, and it is usually not anything outrageous. I could just be spoiled by the lower provincial price structure system, that I tend to avoid Kiev pro's and their inflated/greedy demands. On the other hand, when dealing with amateurs, they can tend to be more likely to make some outrageous demands if you want something above and beyond whatever basic fun that may have been originally agreed upon.

What you passed right over, that Q-chump never even mentioned, was whether or not he tried to offer the massage pick-up dyev anything else. All he said was that she just gave him massage for $50 and then she left. He never said if he offered her any more payment, or whether she was hot looking, he only described her as "strange". So your "finally!" exasperation is based on a story that leaves out that critical detail.

Asking where to find massages with set pricing is also pretty obvious, this service is not difficult to locate.

Priceless??

Priceless indeed. Im guessing the Dyev kicked you out of the bed on the wrong side this morning ?

It was mean't from the whooshing sounds to be ironic and with humor.

You are usually pretty sharp on the uptake, but your antennae must have got bent during the night. Not to worry we all have bad days. Up and at 'em and Enjoy.

I made plans to be in Kiev next week but I am now worried the weather put a dent on a nightlife and otherwise cheerful Kiev ladies, should I postpone? Thank you

[QUOTE=Sean EZ]I made plans to be in Kiev next week but I am now worried the weather put a dent on a nightlife and otherwise cheerful Kiev ladies, should I postpone? Thank you[/QUOTE]Nightlife in Kiev is not very much dependent on weather, so all options are still open - unless there is extreme cold or rain. But you loose the eye candy on the street from a hot summer day:).

Here is a list of Sauna's in Kiev:

[url]http://laznya.kiev.ua/#top[/url]

The prices are per hour unless mentioned different. There is mostly a minimum of 2 hours and in the evening it is more expensive.
For the price you hire the whole sauna and you can bring whoever you want. Most sauna's are for maximum 6 to 8 persons.

If it is a standard sauna you will get for the price the Sauna, a pool with cold water, a relax room with a bed, showers, towels and for drinks tea and cold water. Alcoholic dinks are charged extra.

If it is a more exclusive sauna you will also get a Jacuzzi or a pool with hot water in addition.

If you want to go to a sauna you need to make a reservation. For the more exclusive ones, it must be at least 2 days on beforehand, because they are mostly occupied.

I know there are some sauna’s offering girls to join you. Of course you have to pay for the girls per hour or so.

Have fun.

The weather does not matter. Even if it is cold the clubs are crowded during weekends and the nightlife throughout the week is the same as usual. . But if there is a cold wind and it is snowing, there is no need to walk on Kreshatik during daytime to see some nice ladies.

[QUOTE=Excess]

Im guessing the Dyev kicked you out of bed on the wrong side this morning ?

It was mean't from the whooshing sounds to be ironic and with humor.

You are usually pretty sharp on the uptake, but your antennae must have got bent during the night. Not to worry we all have bad days.

[/QUOTE]

Thanks Eggs,

The whoosh sound was also your sarcasm going right over my head. I think Olga has kicked me on to the wrong side of the week, and wrapped my nuts around my humor antennae.

Jeez, thanks for straightening me out.

[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]I guess you must be experiencing something unusual, since every agency WG provides exactly what is agreed on, which is the basic one-pop covered minuet and sex for the hourly rate, with the agency calling her mobile after about 45 minutes to notify that your one hour time is up.

That's not to say that something extra might be available if you ask for it or offer additional payment. But its usually not offered, YOU have to make the inquiry for extras and then a negotiation takes place, and it is usually not anything outrageous. I could just be spoiled by the lower provincial price structure system, that I tend to avoid Kiev pro's and their inflated/greedy demands. On the other hand, when dealing with amateurs, they can tend to be more likely to make some outrageous demands if you want something above and beyond whatever basic fun that may have been originally agreed upon.

What you passed right over, that Q-chump never even mentioned, was whether or not he tried to offer the massage pick-up dyev anything else. All he said was that she just gave him massage for $50 and then she left. He never said if he offered her any more payment, or whether she was hot looking, he only described her as "strange". So your "finally!" exasperation is based on a story that leaves out that critical detail.

Asking where to find massages with set pricing is also pretty obvious, this service is not difficult to locate.

Priceless??[/QUOTE]

What I have to tell you line by line?
Perhaps we are not all as professional a monger as you, but please fill in the lines yourself?
Hot she was, strange as in the way she was.

[QUOTE=Sean EZ]I made plans to be in Kiev next week but I am now worried the weather put a dent on a nightlife and otherwise cheerful Kiev ladies, should I postpone? Thank you[/QUOTE]You are right. If I were you, I would skip Ukraine from mid August until March. And save paradise for the rest of us.

Thank you for being so considerate and respectful. We love you, too!

I agree with Sean. Winter is not a good period to travel to Ukraine. Girls are most of the time ill or just do not want to get out in the cold. It is impossible to pick up chicks on the street under the rain and snow.

I was once in November and it was so cold I got ill and almost could not stay on the street for more than half an hour without getting back to hotel to warm myself.

[QUOTE=Wallyally]You are right. If I were you, I would skip Ukraine from mid August until March. And save paradise for the rest of us.

Thank you for being so considerate and respectful. We love you, too![/QUOTE]

LOL I guess I am going to freeze my balls in the paradise with the rest of you then.

It is when she is on the wrong week of the month that is most ehmmm, dampening, I'm sure that you will agree, Bezer.

Nothing to do then but fall back on good old oral communication or there is always the muddy road to heaven. As you like it.

Enjoy.

[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]Thanks Eggs,

The whoosh sound was also your sarcasm going right over my head. I think Olga has kicked me on to the wrong side of the week, and wrapped my nuts around my humor antennae.

Jeez, thanks for straightening me out.[/QUOTE]

Why can you have a hour in Warsaw for the price of 200 zl and in Kiev the agency ask 200 Euro for the same Ukraine girl?

Hello guys,

Any feed-back on this:

[url]http://www.kievprivat.com/[/url]
[url]http://www.kievsex.ru/girls_en.html[/url]

rip-off or good value for money?

Thanks

Train to Odessa. 210 Grivna

Apartment. $40

Marchutka to Moldovian border. 12 grivna

Border guard. $50 (new 90 day visa period)

Doing bizz'ness in Ukraine. Priceless!

Ls guy

EvilZ had a really good breakdown on all the escorts in Kiev, and here it is: [url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=655282&postcount=162[/url]



[QUOTE=Samsarai]Hello guys,

Any feed-back on this:

[url]http://www.kievprivat.com/[/url]
[url]http://www.kievsex.ru/girls_en.html[/url]

rip-off or good value for money?

Thanks[/QUOTE]

I went to River Palace on Monday Nov 26 and it had a busfull of Italians that night, all sitting in the middle section of the club, the ratio had to be 5 men to 1 woman, and two guys I came with who have been there before said this was the worst night because the ratio is usually the opposite. Needless to say I didn't even ask the prices, but my acquaintance told me it would be at least 300 that night, needless to say I didn't even ask. The quality that night was ok, but just ok compared the beauty you see on the streets and other clubs. Oh I was also told they ask for your money upfront, a big no no for me. I don't have any p4p experience in Ukraine so not sure if that was one person's experience or the norm there.

I arrived Kiev in the afternoon and waited for my date to arrive, a 19-year old I had met on the internet, she came by bus from another city. A very sweet girl arrived, we talked and had dinner, she was a bit shy and was definitely more village girl than the more experienced Kiev girls. She also told me that she would not sleep with me the first night, and after a bit lame attempts on my side to make her change her mind, I agreed that she slept on the couch while I was in the big bed in the bedroom:)). I was quite relaxed with this, after all I came to Kiev from a 3-day encounter with a sexy girl who had given me sex 3 times a day:)).

The next day we were around a little sightseeing. During coffee in a cafe my mood went down when she told me that she never wanted sex every day, usually not more than 1-2 times a week when she had had a boyfriend half a year ago. My God, what kind of girl did I meet?? However, back in the apartment at 3 pm we went straight to the bedroom, and it was repeated/continuous sex (more or less) and wine drinking till 9 when she left for her home town by bus.

Now I was mostly interested in having a rest and going to sleep. However, I knew that Kiev1 and Bunnyturd were sitting eating in the downstairs bar in RP and I had an appointment with them. So I went there to have a drink. Later we went upstairs, I was not really in the mood for more sex. This was a Saturday night and it was surprisingly slow with girls – although the quality was good, the girls were outnumbered by guys. Not a climate for bargaining. Two hot girls told me they always went together: 300 for 1 hour, 600 for 2 hours, and then 300 for each subsequent hours. This is a lot! It was clear that all girls started at 300, and it was for 1 hour! A few quoted 300 for 2 hours!. And I was not in the mood, thinking several times to go home? To go from RP without a girl? Yes, I was seriously thinking so – I wanted to sleep! But I enjoyed observing the scene and speak with the mates.

Close to 2 am when I was practically on my way to go, I went straight onto this tall, blond, model-like girl hat I more or less attacked:)): she was quite outstanding in her looks! Blond, 20 years, slim, 179 cm with a fantastic body – if you like tall, slim ones! We decided to talk a little (she had reasonable English) and she took me into the casino, where there was like a small restaurant: a very quiet place to sit down. I had never seen this before, but it was a good place to get away for a talk.

To make a long story short: she came with me. And we clicked! We had great sex, she loved my DATY:)), and she gave me maybe the best oral of my life. And we spent the following 2 days and night together all the time: total of 3 nights and 2 days with a cost of USD 1500 pluss a couple of good dinners. It was a total GFE, but a GF who was totally into wild, high-quality sex! And she was smart, smiling and funny – what more can a man look for?

Expensive? Yes! Worth it? Absolutely!! If I had been living in Kiev, I would go a long way to stay with this girl! Some of you may think I am an idiot who spend this money. But GiA takes close to 500 per night! 3 nights in RP will set you back 900 for encounters lasting maybe 2 hours each! And this model-like girl usually charges 300 for 1 hour, 450 for two, all night maybe 800. In reality I got a very good deal - I had a fantastic girl for almost 3 days and willing to do great sex whenever I wanted it - and she sometimes initiated it herself! And it is very funny to think that this happened on the night where I seriously considered to leave RP without a girl! Sometimes one is just into luck!

Final comments:
My girl had been going to RP only the last 3 months. She is a student and she had for one year been the girlfriend of one of the young, new-Ukrainians who spent maybe USD 10000 per month on her!!! And when they finished she was so used to a better standard that she now had to go occasionally to RP!

She told me girls easily make 6-800 dollars a night in RP – either for multiple hours or they do one customer early during night and come back for a second! My feeling is also that RP is now more a sellers market, and I suspect that a lot of girls give a rather mechanical service – I felt there were some hard, very business-like attitudes?. My girl also told me that we get what we pay for: less money will often get us less enthusiastic service. Furthermore, the girls get pissed off by too much bargaining – and even if they agree in the end, this may give you worse service. However, even when we pay the full price, we have no guarantee that we get good service at all! As Caucasians we may have an advantage, there was a lot of Turks/Arabs in RP this particular night and it was clear that the girls prefer to keep away from them. Because of racist attitudes or bad experiences - maybe both? In the end of the day it depends on the chemistry you develop with the girls – and maybe also that their milage is not to long?

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

[QUOTE=Sean EZ]I went to River Palace on Monday Nov 26 and it had a busfull of Italians that night, all sitting in the middle section of the club, the ratio had to be 5 men to 1 woman, and two guys I came with who have been there before said this was the worst night because the ratio is usually the opposite. Needless to say I didn't even ask the prices, but my acquaintance told me it would be at least 300 that night, needless to say I didn't even ask. The quality that night was ok, but just ok compared the beauty you see on the streets and other clubs. Oh I was also told they ask for your money upfront, a big no no for me. I don't have any p4p experience in Ukraine so not sure if that was one person's experience or the norm there.[/QUOTE]Yes it was a bad night for p4p in river palace that night,so many italians in town for the big football match with Dynamo Kiev! This is my fourth visit to Kiev and that must be the only time i've seen so many guys outnumber the girls.Thankfully things had gotten a little better on tuesday evening as most italians had made there way to the airport after the match,but not before some of them caused some trouble in the club and were kicked out.

Most girls reluctant to lower there prices much nowadays it seems 300 dollars is the way most of these girls keep going for.

I had one girl on Monday evening who was quite hot looking surprisingly did lower her price to 200 dollars for 2 hours,but then the following night i met this gorgeous girl wearing these tight little black shorts,but once more i got the 300 dollar opening line but after a small time she dropped down to 250,but since i have only paid once before 300 i would not budge from 200,so it got to the end of the night and no one would meet her price so once more i tried at 200,but no she would not lower herself so she walked away with no one to her taxi and i got the metro home for 50 kopecks.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

I find 1500$ for one girl for two days a lot of money to pay.I doubt that the girls in RP make so easily 600-800$ every night.I think she told you it to make you spend for her a kind of compensation for what she would make if she stayed two nights in RP instead of you.

It also seems to me strange that the village girl left you so easily in Kiev where she knew what you were going to do.

Anyway it is the result what matters and we have to recognize Ukraina still rewards.

You guys are paying way too much for Kiev - you can stay in any Western city and get a girl for 2-3 days for $1500.

Paying $200-300/hr? I can pick up my phone in Boston, NYC or Miami and get a hot Ukrainian or Russian girl for that. In Kiev? Just stop it.

I don't know which is worst, the cheap sexpats looking to scam the girls for sex or the sexpats throwing money at the girls.

Last time in Nikolaev I paid 50$/hour. Not for a real model, but a good looking blond, 22 years.

And she really knew her profession.

So I will prefere to stay in the "countryside" like Nikolaev and Cherson.

These girls might be able to make $400 a month for a honest job, don't spoil them, or ruin it for the rest of us!

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]You guys are paying way too much for Kiev - you can stay in any Western city and get a girl for 2-3 days for $1500.

Paying $200-300/hr? I can pick up my phone in Boston, NYC or Miami and get a hot Ukrainian or Russian girl for that. In Kiev? Just stop it.

I don't know which is worst, the cheap sexpats looking to scam the girls for sex or the sexpats throwing money at the girls.[/QUOTE]

$300 for RP girl for one hour, even the whole night, crazy!

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]

Pay $200-300/hr?

I pick up my phone in Miami and get a hot Russian girl.

[/QUOTE]

If its not tooooo much trouble, howz 'bout throwing us SoFla dogs a bone?

Not saying we couldn't pick up OUR phones, and if we really searched calling ALL agnecies, we could find a russki pro, like 34 years with some runts and a pretty arrogant bedside manor, or even the chance she might be friendly.....

But HOT? and Russian Hot? No, that's not just a simple "pick up & call" move, so......what's the deal?


.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]You guys are paying way too much for Kiev - you can stay in any Western city and get a girl for 2-3 days for $1500.

Paying $200-300/hr? I can pick up my phone in Boston, NYC or Miami and get a hot Ukrainian or Russian girl for that. In Kiev? Just stop it.

I don't know which is worst, the cheap sexpats looking to scam the girls for sex or the sexpats throwing money at the girls.[/QUOTE]The point is that Kiev is not any more a cheap city for girls. You can get the occasional good deals from semipros etc. who just want a little sponsoring for their studies etc. You can get cheaper sex from some of the websites, but it is really a hit and miss. RP is now 300 for 1 hour for the majority of girls - some will say 300 for 2 hours. This is the going price. You can like it or not, you can stay till 3 am and try to get a lower price, but you have no guarantee: read what Kiev1 just wrote. Furthermore, at this late hour the girls are pissed because of bargaining and you both are more tired, maybe the sex is less fun? And you just cut from 300 till 250...

My point is that for the cheap sex for 2 hours: don't go to RP - even though you may be lucky:). Now I had a 9 for the most incredible sex for 2 days and 3 nights for 1500 - if you go to RP 3 nights in a row, you would pay that for 3-4 hours each of these 3 nights? We are all different, but I enjoy such a GFE relationship far more than fucking 3 different girls during 3 nights. Also, if you click with the girl, the rewards are so big!

By the way, I would like to know the Western city where you get a top girl for USD 1500 for 2-3 days?

[QUOTE=Maverick1]These girls might be able to make $400 a month for a honest job, don't spoil them, or ruin it for the rest of us![/QUOTE]The reason they go to RP is that they make 400 on an "honest job". Some of them support themselves through studies by going to RP 3 times a month, some go there 3 times a week because they want to buy a fur coat or a car:)

Hi everybody,

I am in kiev again, I am reading a lot of things that I have already written, yes freebies are better but they are for warriors, prostitutes are becoming expensive and they always cheat and blame when customer is a gentleman, experienced mongers find everything easier but after how many years they got their experience? I found a nice prostitute, good price, doing everything, I was awaiting for somebody of yours to have threesome or a foursome. What about prices, yes don't waste time and money with cruel girls asking for 80-100$/hour for just pussy sex and cold service, it is better a cheap masturbation than an expensive fucking. High money just for blowjob without condom with completion in throath and anal fucking included in price. Remember, ukrainian prostitutes do everything and everytime with ukrainian customers for cheap prices, but when they find a foreigner, they love to fuck his money, it is becoming the most important female sport not only here in kiev. Different to the past, it is becoming cheaper to seduce, marry and divorce a nice girl than to pay sex to sponsoring girls and prostitutes. Think, people, think.

And you also paid for some generous dinners?Which means minimum 100$ per day if you went to restaurant for lunch and dinner.To pay dinner for a pro?I think this is total degradation for a monger.

Maybe in some years we will have to bring some presents first to be allowed to talk to them in RP.

A total expense of 2000$ approximately for an ukrainian girl for two days stay sounds extraordinary.You can easily sponsor one girl for a month with this amount of money.

And I do not understand who is the cheap sexpat who scams the girl.Maybe the one who travels there with no intention to marry?

I've poured over this section of the board and the pricing just seems all over the map. It's incredible the price that some seem happy to pay. It sounds like this is becoming a destination where you just have to speak a local language or be living there to manage more affordable pricing. The $ has weakened quite a bit and the Ukraine economy sounds like it has really grown. To me, $300 for even three hours, is quite expensive compared to other parts of the world.

Ok guys some really interesting posts about river palace recently! First of all I met with a hot dark haired student girl in river palace last night and when I mean hot she had the best looking rear end you can imagine. Her name was Julia she was studying Tourism at the university and had already travelled to many countries outside her home city, whats more she had her own high class motor car parked outside RP, so got a free lift home as well. Her price straightaway was 200 dollars for 2 hours, was she worth it at 3am in the morning having had a few beers, sex was ok nothing special, tried to go down on her to taste some of her flowing juices but she wouldn't allow, I like a girl who turns me on by sight and allows me to explore her, would I meet this girl again? Yes because once you have been with them and they know you won't treat them roughly then it usually pays off more when you meet next time.

Just too add I'm out here with another guy from the forums and he told me that the friend of the girl he took from river palace last night was robbed of her money from going with a russian guy who used her and then took the money back from her bag, that's why alot of the girls leave russian guys alone up there and they rely on more western guys for the money they make, and on some nights when there are not many guys there these girls make no money and can get quite pissed off if russian guys keep hitting on them because they know the risks involved with these guys. But if you are a new girl with no experience of the place and no guy is looking to hit on to you then sometimes these girls take a chance with a russian hoping everything will be ok.

Nice to have met you Explorer 69, maybe we can meet up again in new year in Kiev, I am still here for another week yet.

Was in the RP last Monday too. Nice too see how many "colleques" from this forum were present. Mayeb better we start wearing badges for easy recognition :-))

Come to Kiev every month. Always stayed in the Radisson but changed to the Hyatt recently. Very nice place and no problem to get girls in! Hyatt is about EUR 75/night more, but you get two times more value for your money (EUR 325/400)

I had a nice gril from the RP again, blond ICT student. Very nice attitude and good sex.

There are many negative things being said about the RP and some of them I agree with. There are more and more very business minded girls there. "Hi you want sex, USD 300"
But on te other hand, I have taken over the years probably some 30-40 girls from the RP. And I have never had one bad experience. Maybe one or two were so-so. Because you have time to watch them hopw they behave, you can pick out the nice ones. That is what I prefer about a club where the girls introduce themselves in a minute.

About the costs of the RP, most forget about the crazy expensive taxi's outside (UAH 80-100) adn the tipping.

But after a few nice orgasms everything is forgotten!!! :-))) Have fun!

Ukraine is a fun destination to chase freebies. If you come to look for pussy and end up in RP every night spending 300 every time then there are better countries to travel to.

Bez, Bez, Bez..I'll send you some more information in a PM one more time. :)

The last time I was in RP (September) I was being quoted $150 for an hour, $200 for two hours and $300 for all night. These were from super hot girls, this was the opening bid and without any work on my part. Just going up to them and chatting for a couple of minutes. I had no real interest in negotiating. Still too expensive for Kiev, my ceiling is $200 for the night (3-6 hours). Could be me, could be you, could be her...My buddies are still getting girls for $150-$250/night if they work it.

I sponsor girls all the time in the US (Boston, NYC, Miami) for $1-2k month (1 5-6 hour dinner date, 1 all nighter/week). You should still be able to find a model quality girl in Kiev for 2k/month or less.

Oh and the prices you should be paying the taxi at River Palace - 20-30uah to get there, 50uah to leave with a girl.

Fslag, I'm sure you are coming to Kiev on the company dime but you do realize you can rent a palace for 400e/night.

So forgetting the money for a minute -- over time on this board, RP has had it's ups-and-downs as it relates to the quantity of hot chicks that show up at RP. Some months I read that it's dead on the weekends with only 5s and 6s, other times it's great -- lots of 8s, 9s and some 10s.

Is it safe to assume that we are on a high now??? Seems like some of you are pulling out some real winners!

What's the current state for hotness of the RP girls??? Thanks.

[QUOTE=Fslag338]

I had a nice gril from RP again, blond student.
I have taken over the years probably some 30-40 girls from the RP.

[/QUOTE]

Here's 30 or 40 of them

[QUOTE=Kiev1]

Ok at river palace recently I met a hot dark haired student girl and I mean hot she had the best looking rear end you can imagine.

would I meet this girl again? Yes.

[/QUOTE]

Do we EVER see what these prostitutes look like?

Have we ever seen ANY of Fslag's 40 prostitutes?

What's the deal here? Everybody's fucking all these prostitutes, but nobody can ever show us ANY of them?

[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]Do we EVER see what these prostitutes look like?

Have we ever seen ANY of Fslag's 40 prostitutes?

What's the deal here? Everybody's fucking all these prostitutes, but nobody can ever show us ANY of them?[/QUOTE]
Here's one.

Just sayin'.

[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]Do we EVER see what these prostitutes look like?

Have we ever seen ANY of Fslag's 40 prostitutes?

What's the deal here? Everybody's fucking all these prostitutes, but nobody can ever show us ANY of them?[/QUOTE]I took girl from escort agency last night for 8 hours! I made video of some of it, the girl in question 19 yrs, pretty face and really enjoys the sex, best escort for GFE sex I've been with, showing it too Ricky Zaperato who I met up with today who posts on this forum. Have also other pics which I will upload when I get home in about one weeks time.

Hey, I've seen that dyevushka before! :)

Hi friends,

It's interesting to read your comments about RP. Quite astonishing prices compared to cities like Prague, Tallinn or Warsaw. Soon I will be in Kiev and will definitely pay it a visit. Any other recommendations regarding good hunting places? By the way, any area in Kiev where you can find streetwalkers?

Happy Hunting & Thanks

EH

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Hey, I've seen that dyevushka before! :)[/QUOTE]
Yes you have, she was incredibly spirited considering I picked her and her "sister" up at about 4.30 am... She's probably on the "sleep to 4 in the afternoon" professional schedule... :)

Work all night, sleep all day...

You paid what, $250 for 2 girls for what 6 hours or so last winter? Now that must have been a real Super Blow. ;)

[QUOTE=Explorer69]As Caucasians we may have an advantage, there was a lot of Turks/Arabs in RP this particular night and it was clear that the girls prefer to keep away from them. Because of racist attitudes or bad experiences - maybe both? In the end of the day it depends on the chemistry you develop with the girls – and maybe also that their milage is not to long?[/QUOTE]Well I'm half Turkish and I assure you that Turks don't look like Arabs and people who think so are really ignorant. This is just a prejudice I guess. And Istanbul is full of Ukranian prostitutes, so it's really funny to hear that they keep away from Turks in Kiev.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Work all night, sleep all day...

You paid what, $250 for 2 girls for what 6 hours or so last winter? Now that must have been a real Super Blow. ;)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, about that... was really memorable. They were both wild. Those are prices that make sense to me. :)

[QUOTE=Europe Hunter]Hi friends,

It's interesting to read your comments about RP. Quite astonishing prices compared to cities like Prague, Tallinn or Warsaw. Soon I will be in Kiev and will definitely pay it a visit. Any other recommendations regarding good hunting places? By the way, any area in Kiev where you can find streetwalkers?

Happy Hunting & Thanks

EH[/QUOTE]If you should have success with streetwalkers you need a car and speck Russian. you will see some streetwalkers outside of the citycenter at some of the bigger roads.

Only cities I have seen streetwalkers in citicenters have been in Dnepr and Odessa.

If you are a "white" Turk you actually would have an edge over "Westerners" here in Kiev. Stereotypically, Ukrainian girls perceive "Westerners", especially Americans, as boring, superficial, and weak (because they are too civilized for Ukrainian girls). Both Turks and Ukrainians are not European and they tend to click quite well culturally. Same goes for Greeks and Italians. However, the Turks who crowd the River Palace are the middle eastern types (think Grand Bazaar carpet sellers) and it is clear that girls prefer "Westerners" over these types. In the final analysis, who you are and how you present yourself has much more weight than your passport, especially for girls who just look for fun.


[QUOTE=Nicholai Hel]Well I'm half Turkish and I assure you that Turks don't look like Arabs and people who think so are really ignorant. This is just a prejudice I guess. And Istanbul is full of Ukranian prostitutes, so it's really funny to hear that they keep away from Turks in Kiev.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Nicholai Hel]Well I'm half Turkish and I assure you that Turks don't look like Arabs and people who think so are really ignorant. This is just a prejudice I guess. And Istanbul is full of Ukranian prostitutes, so it's really funny to hear that they keep away from Turks in Kiev.[/QUOTE]I did not mean anything against Turks, I just quoted what some girl(s) had told me, it gave me this quite clear impression . As I said: in the end of the day it probably depends how you present yourself.

[QUOTE=Hedonist]If you are a "white" Turk you actually would have an edge over "Westerners" here in Kiev. Stereotypically, Ukrainian girls perceive "Westerners", especially Americans, as boring, superficial, and weak (because they are too civilized for Ukrainian girls). Both Turks and Ukrainians are not European and they tend to click quite well culturally. Same goes for Greeks and Italians. However, the Turks who crowd the River Palace are the middle eastern types (think Grand Bazaar carpet sellers) and it is clear that girls prefer "Westerners" over these types. In the final analysis, who you are and how you present yourself has much more weight than your passport, especially for girls who just look for fun.[/QUOTE]I agree that slavic mentality is closer to mediteranean than to western mentality.It is easier for mediteranean men to adjust to slavic women,they do not seem so incomprehensible.They are also submissive,do not talk much,pay attention to material things and take care of themselves,want the man to buy them everything,it is the same features with mediteranean women.And mediteranean women are so darm difficult to get,you have to go through so many tricks and obstacles that after them slavic women seem like childsplay,extremely easy.You know almost everything you need to get them cause mediteranean women have trained you unpurposely.

However I disagree about turkish appeal as a nationality.Many ukrainians dislike Turks and Arabs for some reason(maybe due to wars,other religion) and this affects the attitude of many girls.I have listened girls making very bad comments about arabs and once an ukrainian guy put his arm round my neck and asked me if I was Turk.When I told him no,he left me.

Other girls expressed to me their amazement about how hot turkish men are.So it depends.But generally a european or american gets more chances than any other,except maybe the rich russian youth who has definitely an edge.

[QUOTE=Hedonist]Stereotypically, Ukrainian girls perceive "Westerners", especially Americans, as boring, superficial, and weak (because they are too civilized for Ukrainian girls). [/QUOTE]
Geez, I take a hiatus from Ukraine for a few months and you are already screwing everything up. Guess I am just going to have to go back and straighten things out again... :)

I seem to generate more interest from dyevochkas when I pretend to be a businessman from London or Canada, than from USA. Not sure why, but maybe they think it will be easier to get to England than America.

Wow, I'd like to meet the girls you are hanging out with - scratch that, actually no I wouldn't.

Where is this cell of Western hating Turk loving Ukrainian girls hanging out in Kiev? I have yet to come across it in the years I've been coming to Kiev. Let me know so I can avoid that area.

Greeks and Italians aren't European? Or Ukrainian girls like them because they don't act European? I always thought Greece and Italy were the foundation of modern Europe, go figure. Or maybe it's that Turks, Greeks and Italians usually have a lot of body hair - maybe that's what the dyevushka's like?

I think a lot of Ukrainians are going to be disappointed to hear they aren't European. Think this will effect their EU chances?

I think the reason why most Ukrainian girls don't like Turks (yes, that's what I said) is that Ukrainian girls tend to view Turkish men as thinking they are all prostitutes - Natasha is slang for a Ukrainian/Russian ho, right?

[QUOTE=Hedonist]If you are a "white" Turk you actually would have an edge over "Westerners" here in Kiev. Stereotypically, Ukrainian girls perceive "Westerners", especially Americans, as boring, superficial, and weak (because they are too civilized for Ukrainian girls).[/QUOTE]

i'm not from new york, california, or texas. i am from a major city and have a distaste for the countryside and suburbs. i don't like george w. bush either. i wasn't born in the us, but i do enjoy the full benefits of being american and calling it my primary home.

girls who i meet and gotten to known over the course of a few trips to kyiv all agree that they are not very fond of foreigners and they all think and are told that foreigners love ukrainian girls and just want to pump and dump them. this outweighs any curiosity they may have about them otherwise. obviously i'm different and trust me, i know i am. in this light, the number one place european girls want to go to should they get a visa is the us. this is true for prague, rome, kyiv, london, and yes even, parisian girls. i know because i ask.

short story: i complained via text to a girlfriend in kyiv while i was in the states about getting a speeding ticket going 105 mph on the highway. in ukraine, 20 bucks would get you out of it and on your way. she responded "but you're in the us of a :)"... i immediately felt slightly better.

sorry to the english / welsh / scottish /irish / canadians / turkish / italians / french / greek / etc here. there really is no argument here. top cities in the us are nyc, la, and chicago. then you still have all of the rest of socal, hawaii, miami/keys, east hamptons, and aspen/vail. in the uk, you have london... and that's it. birmingham is second... and not even worth mentioning. i know well off ukrainian girls, college age that have gone over to the uk on daddy's money and were bored because they didn't go to london. i can't imagine the life of a bloke living in manchester, despite mu's greatness. and canada... i've gone to toronto on business several times and if that's the best there is, no contest. now remember, this is where to live, not where to vacation. paris, southeast italy, greek isles, and even istanbul are great for a week trip, but living there kind of blows.

ask your p4p girl next time as post-sex talk. if she had $25k to spend and a visa to go anywhere to tour and potentially live for a few years, where she would go. it's either going to be moscow or the us, depending on how loyal she is to the motherland ;)

[quote=cruiser d]wow, i'd like to meet the girls you are hanging out with - scratch that, actually no i wouldn't.

where is this cell of western hating turk loving ukrainian girls hanging out in kiev? i have yet to come across it in the years i've been coming to kiev. let me know so i can avoid that area.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Acolonizer]Hi everybody,

I am in kiev again, I am reading a lot of things that I have already written, yes freebies are better but they are for warriors, prostitutes are becoming expensive and they always cheat and blame when customer is a gentleman, experienced mongers find everything easier but after how many years they got their experience? I found a nice prostitute, good price, doing everything, I was awaiting for somebody of yours to have threesome or a foursome. What about prices, yes don't waste time and money with cruel girls asking for 80-100$/hour for just pussy sex and cold service, it is better a cheap masturbation than an expensive fucking. High money just for blowjob without condom with completion in throath and anal fucking included in price. Remember, ukrainian prostitutes do everything and everytime with ukrainian customers for cheap prices, but when they find a foreigner, they love to fuck his money, it is becoming the most important female sport not only here in kiev. Different to the past, it is becoming cheaper to seduce, marry and divorce a nice girl than to pay sex to sponsoring girls and prostitutes. Think, people, think.[/QUOTE]

Call me the [i]Frugal Monger[/i], I spent $271US RT for a "freebie" and it was limited. Might as well have banged a "Pro", no limits. The more I think about it, more I think I should have went with that hot brunette at met at RP for $250 and no mention of time limit@3am.

Should have taken up "Professional Party Girl" up on her offer of $150@5am and no MENTION of time limits.

Semi pro's don't charge twice or do they??? I got her cell number and it works ;)

At this point, I would agree that it just might be cheaper to "buy the cow with the milk" in Kiev and I don't think there are trade-offs to going "Big City" over "Tiny Village".

Guys that pay an agency thousands of dollars to be sex tourist is pretty dam stupid especially when now have to "weed" out the the girls "seeking adventure..." when the honorable intention was to find a partner to get married.

It takes all kinds and I really don't understand the bashing of people that want to spend more money than you do. I am reasonably broke and can't afford to visit Europe every 2-4 months like some of you do. I know you go into the FSU for IT related jobs, which means I guess I should learn Unix sometime soon - :)

[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]Call me the [i]Frugal Monger[/i], I spent $271US RT for a "freebie" and it was limited. Might as well have banged a "Pro", no limits. The more I think about it, more I think I should have went with that hot brunette at met at RP for $250 and no mention of time limit@3am.

Should have taken up "Professional Party Girl" up on her offer of $150@5am and no MENTION of time limits.

Semi pro's don't charge twice or do they??? I got her cell number and it works ;)

At this point, I would agree that it just might be cheaper to "buy the cow with the milk" in Kiev and I don't think there are trade-offs to going "Big City" over "Tiny Village".

Guys that pay an agency thousands of dollars to be sex tourist is pretty dam stupid especially when now have to "weed" out the the girls "seeking adventure..." when the honorable intention was to find a partner to get married.

It takes all kinds and I really don't understand the bashing of people that want to spend more money than you do. I am reasonably broke and can't afford to visit Europe every 2-4 months like some of you do. I know you go into the FSU for IT related jobs, which means I guess I should learn Unix sometime soon - :)[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend I agree with you totally... if you pay you know what you get... now I'm setting up a lot (not so much, presents etc) of money on a UA girl! Of course she is what I like: 158/45, black haired and filled 18 since a couple of months. I hope that in the next weekend I can take her in bed and drill her pink holes. But she has alreedy reserved a table in the most expecive restaurant in Kiev!

The experience with my friend U. was the same (I'll bang her holes agin in this trip). So in any case I decided to reserve some pro pigs and, what not, a tour of Mystery Tramp holes! She said me she need new photos! :) perhaps a pussy portrait! She is not working any more at RP but in another bar

By the way if you have some real pig in your telephone register could you send them over?

IT

[quote=banker24]i'm not from new york, california, or texas. i am from a major city and have a distaste for the countryside and suburbs. i don't like george w. bush either. i wasn't born in the us, but i do enjoy the full benefits of being american and calling it my primary home.

girls who i meet and gotten to known over the course of a few trips to kyiv all agree that they are not very fond of foreigners and they all think and are told that foreigners love ukrainian girls and just want to pump and dump them. this outweighs any curiosity they may have about them otherwise. obviously i'm different and trust me, i know i am. in this light, the number one place european girls want to go to should they get a visa is the us. this is true for prague, rome, kyiv, london, and yes even, parisian girls. i know because i ask.

short story: i complained via text to a girlfriend in kyiv while i was in the states about getting a speeding ticket going 105 mph on the highway. in ukraine, 20 bucks would get you out of it and on your way. she responded "but you're in the us of a :)"... i immediately felt slightly better.

sorry to the english / welsh / scottish /irish / canadians / turkish / italians / french / greek / etc here. there really is no argument here. top cities in the us are nyc, la, and chicago. then you still have all of the rest of socal, hawaii, miami/keys, east hamptons, and aspen/vail. in the uk, you have london... and that's it. birmingham is second... and not even worth mentioning. i know well off ukrainian girls, college age that have gone over to the uk on daddy's money and were bored because they didn't go to london. i can't imagine the life of a bloke living in manchester, despite mu's greatness. and canada... i've gone to toronto on business several times and if that's the best there is, no contest. now remember, this is where to live, not where to vacation. paris, southeast italy, greek isles, and even istanbul are great for a week trip, but living there kind of blows.

ask your p4p girl next time as post-sex talk. if she had $25k to spend and a visa to go anywhere to tour and potentially live for a few years, where she would go. it's either going to be moscow or the us, depending on how loyal she is to the motherland ;)[/quote]

cha-ching

welcome broad, more progressive thinking is always welcome, i wish i could ship a fair amount of the republican party to mars.

seeing those artistic "mug shots" of the bush crime family is the best thing i have seen this year.

So again I was in Kiev, this to my great amusment is now becomming weekly and I plan to move here in the new year! I have done my time in stalag Donetsk time to play with the big boys and girls!
I was with a buisness contact (Ukrainian) and he insisted to stay in Hotel Ukrainia, yes I know a dump, so he slopes off to bed at 10 and i get my driver to take me to a strip club, upon entering it just reminded me of a London clip joint, the gilr sat down offered a "private dance" and when i asked what it contained of I was told sex and she wanted $150! i was astounded she wanted so much she was a max 4 on my scale, so another girl comes up says can i sit? yes i say, she sits and drinks her drink i was then presented a bill for 100 grn for her drink!
I refused to pay and upon leaving was hounded by the security right up until he met my driver and then he backed down.
So I headed to river palace this was thursday night 29.11 and found it was not too bad a collection at 11.30pm i spent around an hour there and was offered mostly full nights again at $400 but some did consider moving down to $250 for the night, so total madness to pay $1500 for two days in my opinion.
I went back to the hotel on my own and looked at was in the lobby two gilrs where there both a 2 on my scale and total dogs they wanted 100 euro an hour, obviously i refused and went to bed.
The moral ofthe story is keep away from back street strip joints.

[QUOTE=It Travel]She is not working any more at RP but in another bar

[/QUOTE]
Which bar... this would be interesting info. Not for MT necessarily, but any other pickup bar info is beneficial.

I found the contact to a well-known porn star from Ukraine. She is steaming hot, has international reputation and asks for 2500$ incl. travel for a weekend. pm me for details if wanted.

[QUOTE=Banker24]Ask your p4p girl next time as post-sex talk. If she had $25k to spend and a VISA to go anywhere to tour It's either going to be Moscow or the US[/QUOTE]
And ? ... P4P girls have usually a very distorted vision of the world. ;)

Ask ANY normal russian girl what should be her "dream trip" and she will inevitably answer Paris. Russian people are fascinated by France. During Xmas and January vacations the Champs Elysees (I live one block from there) are literally packed with russians, and it's difficult to walk 10 meters without bumping into a slavic beauty.

There's a very popular russian saying that says "To see Paris and Die".

[QUOTE=Banker24]the number one place European girls want to go to should they get a VISA is the US. This is true for Rome, London, and yes even, Parisian girls. I know because I ask.[/QUOTE]
ROFLMAO

What a f**king ridiculous assertion.

:rolleyes:

Is that because of the race riots?

[QUOTE=Prosal]There's a very popular russian saying that says "To see Paris and Die".[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Is that because of the race riots?[/QUOTE]
Seems Fox News is your main source of (dis) information.

Riots in Paris have social causes, not racial or cultural.

Strange most girls tell me they want to go to London............
Perhaps it all depends on what country you are from ? they coundn't lie could they?

[QUOTE=Prosal]Ask ANY normal russian girl what should be her "dream trip" and she will inevitably answer Paris. Russian people are fascinated by France. [/QUOTE]
Perhaps living in Paris you get that impression and I am sure that Paris still draws them in. I personally have only good things to say about Paris itself, its one of my favorite cities... besides the Arabs there which do detract from the city's charm. There, I said it. Russian girls say that too by the way. I was there last summer with 2 Russian girls and they were laughing about it. Other than that, they liked the city and spent about $15,000 each of Daddy's money on clothes. I sprung for the pizza and helped them "relax" after a long day shopping. :)

But ANY Russian girl will say her dream trip is Paris? Maybe among the 30+ crowd, but for the younger ones more exotic locations are much more "hip" than Paris. Try Italian and Spanish beaches, Greece, Thailand and Brazil. Ukrainians are behind the Russians in this trend (and every other trend for that matter), but they learn fast. Come to think of it, I can't think of any Russian or Ukrainian girl who said she dreamed of going to Paris. I'm sure they'd enjoy the chance if somebody else was paying, but they have other holiday priorities... the most notable one being sun and sand.... and bragging rights about having gone somewhere "cool".

And despite any prejudices that Ukrainians and Russians have against Americans and in particular our f'ed up president, say the words "California", "Florida" or "New York" and watch her eyes light up as her legs spread apart ever so slightly in an uncontrolled response. Pop culture combined with beaches and shopping defeat any prejudices. If US visa laws weren't so stupid and flights were cheaper, you'd see much more tourism headed that way.

And yeah Qjump, when it comes to working abroad London is THE place of choice among talented and upwardly mobile dyevki... however tourists generally head elsewhere.

[QUOTE=Qjump]Strange most girls tell me they want to go to London. Perhaps it all depends on what country you are from ? they coundn't lie could they? [/QUOTE]
Those ukrainian girls eager to go to London coundn't be golddiggers could they ? ;)

[QUOTE=Qjump]

So again I was in Kiev, I play with big boys and girls!

I was offered sex
she wanted $150 she was a max 4 on my scale,

I headed to river palace and was offered $400
some did consider $250 for the night,
so total to pay $1500 for two days.

I went back to the hotel lobby
two gilrs were both a 2 on my scale they wanted 100 euro an hour,

i refused and went to bed.
The moral of the story is keep away.

[/QUOTE]

Ok everybody, start attacking me. Come on, that's all you can do, attack attack attack. This country's better than that country, bla bla bla!

Well of course, its because you are right, you know what you're talking about, you have more experience, you are there, your girls are better, you are better looking, you have more money, you have a better job, you are younger, you have better clothes, the girls like you better, bla bla bla BLA!

You should try listening to yourselves. Its embarrassing. Sorry to put you in your place, but really somebody has to do it. I thought the Prague-blog thread was pathetic, but you guys have turned Kiev into another mess.

Come on now, attack me! You can't help it. Everybody in the pool! I'm wrong, I'm an idiot, I'm stupid jerk. Bla bla bla! Your prescious macho masculinity has been offended, and you MUST defend yourself and your brilliant opinions and impressive philosophies are superior so that all the girls will throw themselves at your feet like you are Ceasar.

I know, I never contribute any useful information, or give you guys any contact info for these girls, so I'm just full of crap all the time. Come on, attack me!! Nobody can resist complaining what a bastard I am. Blanket party!! Throw your punches! Hurry and tell on me to Jackson. Run, RUN!!

Oh Jackson, Jackson!! Bez is so bad!! He changed what I said to make me look foolish!! Its not fair!! He has to be punsihed!! Bla bla bla!!

This is another Kiev shalava blyad. So what. $70. Why pay more. She is skanky. Girls just want to have fun, and dollars.

[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra] Nobody can resist complaining what a bastard I am. Blanket party!! Throw your punches! Hurry and tell on me to Jackson. Run, RUN!!

Oh Jackson, Jackson!! Bez is so bad!! He changed what I said to make me look foolish!! Its not fair!! He has to be punsihed!! Bla bla bla!!
[/QUOTE]
I'm not taking you to Paris with me! There, now I've said it.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]... say the words "California", "Florida" or "New York" and watch her eyes light up as her legs spread apart ...[/QUOTE]

And if you're from Tehran, Kosovo or Jersey City you may find lying works better

Tis the season, let's turn our swords into schlongs.

I retract my tirade of verbal diarrhea, and appeal for mercy and forgiveness to all those I have offended, in the name of Holy Smegma, Goddess of Rim Cheese.

Well, not really, but it sounded good.

This is more or less the perspective I want to get across:

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Which bar... this would be interesting info. Not for MT necessarily, but any other pickup bar info is beneficial.[/QUOTE]

I do not know, but I'll ask her... You knwo a week in kiev with a lot of different dev... why loosing the occasion to nail once more the still tight holes of MT? :D

IT

IT, is MT hanging out at Decadance or Arena now? Most RP girls seem to graduate to those two clubs. I'd be up for drilling Alesia for $100 and I'm sure she'd be up for it too. But just thinking of the 1000 guys she had since I last tapped her kind of turns me off in a vomit inducing way, not for moralistic reasons - but more for communicable disease reasons.

Dr, there are two constant in girls of any age - they all love bowling (never been able to figure this one out) and they all love Las Vegas. The major draw for Paris for girls was/is fashion. But the fashion industry is more of a global industry these days. I guess you can tell a lot about a girl by which city/destination she wants to go to. I'm thinking most of the girls we target are the Las Vegas, LA, Ibiza, Dominican Republic, Thailand, Red Sea type. ;)

Bez, you left out my penis is bigger then yours.

Pro, Oh, I thought it was African's rioting in the streets again? France allowed free immigration from their ex colonies but never gave much thought to the social/economic impact.

All race riots are based on social issues. Actually one could say all riots are based on social issues.

I remember seeing African's milling about in Pigalle at night drinking in public when I lived in Paris in the early 90's. Didn't think it was going to end well. I guess ignoring the problem and hoping it goes away isn't working out too well.


[QUOTE=Prosal]Seems Fox News is your main source of (dis) information.

Riots in Paris have social causes, not racial or cultural.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]IT, is MT hanging out at Decadance or Arena now? Most RP girls seem to graduate to those two clubs. I'd be up for drilling Alesia for $100 and I'm sure she'd be up for it too. But just thinking of the 1000 guys she had since I last tapped her kind of turns me off in a vomit inducing way, not for moralistic reasons - but more for communicable disease reasons.

Dr, there are two constant in girls of any age - they all love bowling (never been able to figure this one out) and they all love Las Vegas. The major draw for Paris for girls was/is fashion. But the fashion industry is more of a global industry these days. I guess you can tell a lot about a girl by which city/destination she wants to go to. I'm thinking most of the girls we target are the Las Vegas, LA, Ibiza, Dominican Republic, Thailand, Red Sea type. ;)

Bez, you left out my penis is bigger then yours.

Pro, Oh, I thought it was African's rioting in the streets again? France allowed free immigration from their ex colonies but never gave much thought to the social/economic impact.

All race riots are based on social issues. Actually one could say all riots are based on social issues.

I remember seeing African's milling about in Pigalle at night drinking in public when I lived in Paris in the early 90's. Didn't think it was going to end well. I guess ignoring the problem and hoping it goes away isn't working out too well.[/QUOTE]


I do not know where MT is hanging out now, but for sure she sucked more than 1000 cocks! she is in business since eraly 2004 or late 2003. You are rigt for disease... the reason I like naive 18teens...

IT

I have to admit that I have been very conservative and only been to RP. How will the experts characterize and compare these clubs? Special days of the week, quality of girls, costs, percentage of WG in relation to total, etc.?

[url]http://www.cityoflove.com/SSPframe.aspx?lang=en-GB&ID=16965[/url]
Anybody knows about this "Playboy XXL Club"? Is it only massage or is it also sex?

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Dr, there are two constant in girls of any age - they all love bowling (never been able to figure this one out) and they all love Las Vegas. The major draw for Paris for girls was/is fashion. But the fashion industry is more of a global industry these days. I guess you can tell a lot about a girl by which city/destination she wants to go to. I'm thinking most of the girls we target are the Las Vegas, LA, Ibiza, Dominican Republic, Thailand, Red Sea type. ;)
[/QUOTE]
Pretty much on target Cruiser, just taking a random sampling of some of the current gfs, who are admittedly more the upscale cosmopolitan type but also some students mixed in for "freshness":

OK, it's purely academic and useless info, but...

Lena: dreams of Greece
Lena2: Crimea
Julia1: dreams of California, but never been anywhere outside Russia
Julia2: got back from Japan
Julia3: dreams of Goa (India)
Inna: dreams of Japan
Mila: in LA
Dasha: moved to London, holidays in Brazil
Dasha2: loves everything anglo, but prefers holidays in Spain and Malta
Anna: loves Malta
Katya: just returned from Brazil
Katya2: Crimea (Kazantipp)
Alyona: holidays in Turkey
Lara: Sochi
Ira: in LA right now
Nastya: holidays in Sharm-al-Sheik/Egypt
Ksenia1: got back from Thailand
Ksenia2: loves Italy
Nadia: Mallorca/Spain
Olesya: London
Natiya: holidays in Hurghada/Egypt
Zhenya1: emigrated to US
Zhenya2: Boston

That's:
Southern Europe: 5 (22%)
Turkey/Egypt: 3 (13%)
Asia/SA/exotic: 5 (22%)
US: 5 (22%)
UK: 2 (9%)
Southern Russia: 3 (13%)

I suppose my random sampling is skewed... but I do think it reflects current trends among young women(18-25). Sun, sand and exotic locations. City tours seem out. For the general populace including all social classes, overall the most popular resort destination is still Turkey due to its relative cheapness, no visa requirement and guaranteed great weather, however girls with any money at all avoid it as it is considered a place where "country people" and "poor people" go on holiday. It's not considered "cool" among the wanna-be elite. That's fine by me though, I'm even considering popping in to Turkey next summer since I like poor country girls just fine for some easy sex... even if I do seem to end up with city girls when it comes to more lasting relationships.

As for bowling, it's uncanny how much they love it. Cool by me though... bowling, beer and sex are a perfect combo. :)

Boston? Have you been holding out on me? ;)

I'm just amazed how every girl I have ever met if the subject comes up just loves bowling. It's scary - deep seated DNA coding?

I know bowling is/was tendy in the FSU. In Kharkov there is even a Bowling alley/club/ho house, picture River Palace on land with a bowling alley..

Dasha2 - can't get much more Anglo then vacationing in Malta and Spain.

Explorer,

Arena - picture the girls at RP asking for $100 or 100e more. Some of the better looking ones go but you can still get some fuglies.

Decadance - $100-150 100e-150 more but face control for the girls is a lot better (for us)

when you and the girl can get down in the gutter. ;-))

[QUOTE=Cruiser DI'm just amazed how every girl I have ever met if the subject comes up just loves bowling. It's scary - deep seated DNA coding?

I know bowling is/was tendy in the FSU. In Kharkov there is even a Bowling alley/club/ho house, picture River Palace on land with a bowling alley..

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]
I'm just amazed how every girl I have ever met if the subject comes up just loves bowling. It's scary - deep seated DNA coding?
[/QUOTE]
Well I for one love sticking things in all three (of her) holes.

Just sayin'.

Bowling is a good bet in FSU, especially since they often have non-standard lanes... too short for example. Easy to kick ass.

When we meet in Kiev, we're going bowling with two leggy blondes and getting them drunk on tequila... settled.

There's actually a pretty good bowling alley in that new shopping complex where the retro disco is, starts with an "A" I believe. Afina/Atrium/Apollo? Help!

I and others have posted information about dating web sites for the Ukraine. It was pointed out to me that several web sites work from the same database, making it pretty much redundant to sign up for more than one. After a little more research I can report the following groupings:

Mamba.ru -- this is the parent company and also their flagship site
=======
Flirt.ru
Rambler.ru
Singles.ru
Love.online.ua

LovePlanet -- this is the parent company
========
[url]www.loveplanet.ua[/url]
love.loveguide.ru

Independent Sites
==============
2gether
dating.ru
24open.ru
[url]www.maw.ru[/url] (erotic photo exchange)
love.i.ua

The sites that I call "Independents" seems to be considerable smaller that the two industry giants Mamba and LovePlanet. There are pro's and cons to the various sites for those who don't speak Russian and don't have Ukraine cellphones with Ukraine SMS to pay for premium services. I covered some of the language/interface issues in a previous post, and I plan to cover some payment issues in the future (to supplemental post by others on this forum).

[QUOTEExplorer,

Arena - picture the girls at RP asking for $100 or 100e more. Some of the better looking ones go but you can still get some fuglies.

Decadance - $100-150 100e-150 more but face control for the girls is a lot better (for us)[/QUOTE]So in other words there is no reason to go to Arena or Decadence, you just pay more for the P4P? But of course in these places you also have a broader spectrum, not only P4P? What is the percentage of WGs in these places?

Whether they want opera in Milan or tea with the Queen in London, most of these girls inevitably end up in Cyprus, Israel or Dubai, where they can put their talents to work

That if they are lucky to get the visa.. LOL

[QUOTE=Ash1001]Whether they want opera in Milan or tea with the Queen in London, most of these girls inevitably end up in Cyprus, Israel or Dubai, where they can put their talents to work[/QUOTE]

Oddly enough it's not too hard for an attractive girl involved in the sex trade to get a visa. Switzerland and Montreal seem to be popular destinations. Ah, what corruption, money and knowing the right (or wrong) people can do.

[QUOTE=Sean EZ]That if they are lucky to get the visa.. LOL[/QUOTE]

This is a futile discussion, but I could stop myself from responding. I never mentioned any Western hating Turk loving Ukranian girls. This is only your distortion.

I talked about the "white" Turks: The educated professional "westernized" types. I am one of them. These guys blend best of both worlds. I and my Turkish friends pick up girls right and left all the time. I don't give a shit about what Ukranian girls think about small businessmen in Kiev from inland Turkey or their hotel staff in Antalya. I am having the best time of my life here.

Of course for a girl who wants to get out of Ukraine, an American probably would be best target. After all the US is the most comfortable (one of the most boring at the same time) country in the world and Holywood is doing a great job selling the American Dream.

Greece and Italy could have been the cultural basis of Europe. When I go to modern Greece I don't really feel that I am in Europe. Maybe they have spent too much time under Turkish domination and were left behind. Greeks, Italians, Spanish, and Portugues are Mediterranian and as such distinctly different in their mentality from the rest of Europe. Turkey blends both Middle East and Mediterranian. Devushkas love guys from Greece, Italy, Spain, Turkey etc. because of their warmth, openness, and passion.

By the way, body hair (if not excessive), dark hair, and dark eyes are truly attractive to Ukrainian girls. In this city I feel like I am the guy in the Axe commercials...

It is been quite a long time since I came here and I haven't had neither the need nor the time for paid-sex. Regular girls keep me just too busy...



[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Wow, I'd like to meet the girls you are hanging out with - scratch that, actually no I wouldn't.

Where is this cell of Western hating Turk loving Ukrainian girls hanging out in Kiev? I have yet to come across it in the years I've been coming to Kiev. Let me know so I can avoid that area.

Greeks and Italians aren't European? Or Ukrainian girls like them because they don't act European? I always thought Greece and Italy were the foundation of modern Europe, go figure. Or maybe it's that Turks, Greeks and Italians usually have a lot of body hair - maybe that's what the dyevushka's like?

I think a lot of Ukrainians are going to be disappointed to hear they aren't European. Think this will effect their EU chances?

I think the reason why most Ukrainian girls don't like Turks (yes, that's what I said) is that Ukrainian girls tend to view Turkish men as thinking they are all prostitutes - Natasha is slang for a Ukrainian/Russian ho, right?[/QUOTE]

Yeah you never mentioned Ukrainian girls hate Westerns, you just said 'Ukrainian girls perceive "Westerners", especially Americans, as boring, superficial, and weak'. I can feel the love, can't you? Not that statement anyway at all jives with reality. You must go to the same alternate Kiev that Evils goes to.

Never would have figured you were Turkish Hedo. Didn't you say at one point you were American? Or was I mistaken?

Picking up a Ukrainian girl in Kiev is about as hard as finding a taxi in Kiev. Picking up a very attractive girl in Kiev is on par with finding a taxi that isn't going to try to rip you off.

Greece made it contribution to Modern Europe long before the Ottoman Empire rose out of the ashes of the Byzantine Empire in the Dark Ages.

Most Ukrainian girls do not consider being Turkish a plus, actually it’s a big minus. When scrolling through online personal ads on Russian and Western sites I often see 'No Turkish men'. When I'm in Kiev for two months and date 100 or so girls I'll do a poll and post it on ISG.

1) Would you date a Turkish guy?
a) ok, would you talk to a Turkish guy?
2) Do you prefer dark hair?
3) Dark eyes?
4) Body hair?

in my opinion with the nationalities things work like this.

if you are solo, the nationality matters less than the personal abilities. however people of mediteranean descent have an advantage in this case because they are more individualistic and more solo oriented in general. the same applies for people from latin countries.
if you are in groups, then nationality does matter. in this case people who have the advantage are the english who come in hordes and occupy every single girl. the other big group is formed by the italians who also work girls in pairs and big companies. so some rep001tered italians coming are not a big deal. they represent no danger or competition. they are condemned to failure. also some english coming will cause an imbalance but will not definetely affect the market. but if they come in huge clusters, then the chances and the attitude of local girls will change.

the americans seem to like picking up solo which is a good thing as it does not spoil the places. they are maybe a bit more honest in approach.
the arabs, turks etc tend to give false promises of marriage etc, so if their amount exceeds a certain level they can cause damage (maybe they have done this in kishinev, odessa).
the blacks have more animalistic approach and try a lot to scam in primitive way, however the percentage of girls who like blacks is fixed, they simply like blacks and so the latter cannot cause any damage because they do not destroy the reputation of westerners in general but only of their race.
skandinavians always force the prices a little up and they fuck so many girls all around europe, that their women do the same with men of other nationalities, so their existence is not bad, the damage they may cause (or not) is balanced by the hot babies they bring from skandinavia.

the damage inflicted by the english on the other hand is not compensated by the availability of english women for a number of reasons.

this is the situation as seen from my experience.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]I'll do a poll
2) Do you prefer dark hair?
3) Dark eyes?
4) Body hair?[/QUOTE]
It's not a rule, but nationalities and cultural features aside, many slavic girls do IMO usually prefer for fun and adventure the typical dark-haired and tanned "latin lover" look over the pale and blond american/northern-european type, reminder of their fellow countrymen. In a logical way, it's exactly the opposite in South American countries. A blond, pale, blue-eyed (and good-looking) friend of mine is literally a killer in Colombia but had hardly any success in Moldova.

About your poll ... how such an experienced monger like you can forget that there's an abyss between what does a girl say and what does a girl do ?

:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Explorer69]So in other words there is no reason to go to Arena or Decadence, you just pay more for the P4P? But of course in these places you also have a broader spectrum, not only P4P? What is the percentage of WGs in these places?[/QUOTE]


From my experience pretty much any girl not with a guy in these places is either (a) pro or (b) semi-pro, or (c) available at a price, be it a nice meal and drinks all night, or a fistful of greenbacks!

Standard WGs tend to be about 25% at weekends, but it's really hard to tell, because about 70% return interest from a merest of glances.

Same also in Caribbean, which is a little cheaper than Decadence and Arena.

Girls, actually most people for that matter tend to be comfortable with what they are used to. In this particular case I don't think it really matter if you are a Latino (for example) unless you speak Russian well and/or look like Antonio Banderas. Sure some girls will be especially interested in you due to your uniqueness, but they will be in the minority. Age divide is also becoming more and more of a factor in the Westernized FSU. Not that it is becoming a 'factor' it's just becoming more of a factor then it was.

What a girl says, what a girl does - Serial daters and professionals (both men and woman) aren't exactly the most truthful people in the world, this really has absolutely nothing to do with gender.

Knight, your more then a little off in your conclusions. First off, not every girl without a guy in a club is available for a price in Kiev, those days are long over. In River Palace the ratio is 99%. At Arena and Decadance it varies from 20-40%. If a girl is sitting by herself or with a female friend at the bar then there is a 90% chance she is working. It's been a long time since I've been to Caribbean but they used to be very little p4p there, but things could have very easily changed. Starting the night off at Caribbean and then walking to 111 used to be one of my favorite nocturnal activities in Kiev.

70% return interest at the merest of glances? What does that mean? They giggle when you smile at them? What is this middle school? ;)

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Knight, your more then a little off in your conclusions. First off, not every girl without a guy in a club is available for a price in Kiev, those days are long over. In River Palace the ratio is 99%. At Arena and Decadance it varies from 20-40%. If a girl is sitting by herself or with a female friend at the bar then there is a 90% chance she is working. It's been a long time since I've been to Caribbean but they used to be very little p4p there, but things could have very easily changed. Starting the night off at Caribbean and then walking to 111 used to be one of my favorite nocturnal activities in Kiev.

70% return interest at the merest of glances? What does that mean? They giggle when you smile at them? What is this middle school? ;)[/QUOTE]

You actually confirmed my argument :)
90% of the unattached girls are at the bar or circling it when not dancing themselves!

Ah, 111... tales from a bygone age fondly remembered!

Anyone know anything about Club Tato - saw ad in a Western-marketed listings Mag as strip/fashion every night, so decided to pop in for an hour on the assumption that because it's a fair way out of town it could be decent.
It was cheaper, and reasonable atmosphere, but not sure any of the dyevochkas were working.... Anyone know if it is a pick-up bar?

A lot of the girls milling about are not p4p in Arena which draws a large student and village crowd looking to party in the flashy big city disco. Girls at the bar are more then likely p4p. Girls at the circular seating area near the steps are 90% p4p.

Decadance promotes itself as an elitist club. Which means that most girls there would be interested in a sugar daddy arrangement (as with most elitist clubs in the world). Assuming of course they aren't already hanging out with their sugar daddy (which means you'll have to catch her on an off night at RP :) ). While by definition a sugar daddy arrangement is p4p, it's not the kind of p4p 95% of the guys who read this forum are looking for. The girls sitting at the small bar are usually interested in an hourly or nightly arrangement.

As I mentioned before unless things have changed quite a bit in Caribbean - which is very possible, I haven't set foot in that club in two years, there was very little p4p there.

I have never been to Tato, but it's a club from the 111 era. It's never on anyone's list of a place to go. I'm assuming it's a local non p4p place - there are a lot of universities in that area. Is it a student hang out?

Saw very little if any p4p at the Caribbean, some girls looking to dance, some are very good Kiev salsa dancers who teach professionally and definitely are not p4p. You basically need to impress a girl there with your dancing skills, but who needs to sweat when you are out plus I like my girls HOT, the dancer girls are usually not.

Here is a good link to all Kiev clubs/bars/etc:

[url]http://kiev.afisha.ua/club/[/url]

and if you don't read Russian here is a translation
[url]http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fkiev.afisha.ua%2Fclub%2F&langpair=ru%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8[/url]

[QUOTE=Sean EZ]Saw very little if any p4p at the Caribbean, some girls looking to dance, some are very good Kiev salsa dancers who teach professionally and definitely are not p4p. You basically need to impress a girl there with your dancing skills, but who needs to sweat when you are out plus I like my girls HOT, the dancer girls are usually not.

Here is a good link to all Kiev clubs/bars/etc:

[url]http://kiev.afisha.ua/club/[/url]

and if you don't read Russian here is a translation
[url]http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fkiev.afisha.ua%2Fclub%2F&langpair=ru%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8[/url][/QUOTE]

Wow, which night were you there on? Definitely stacks of p4p or semipros on last two occasions I've been there. Dancing skills? Don't need 'em mate IMHO

if you are the clicheed version of your nationality, you will lose... because most of our countrymen... no matter which country we come from, are pathetic losers when it comes to getting pussy.

we americans are weak and boring with women.

the english would rather get drunk than fuck.

italians are cheap and all talk no action.

turks are woman-hating sadists.

germans are either perverted closet homosexuals and ****s or too shy to ask the waitress for her phone number.

leave anybody out to insult?

it's all about adapting to field conditions, playing on your strengths... if you aren't doing it, you're missing out on something.

as for as the ukraine girl-turkish guy question, i am no expert as i am not a ukrainian girl. i know some turkish guys who do very well... usually guys that live and work in ukraine. at the same time, if you ask ukrainian girls which guys they don't like, about half will say turkish guys. it's undeniable that turkish guys have a bad reputation. at the same time, it's also undeniable that if you ask light-skinned ukrainian women which guys they find attractive they will say "dark eyes, dark hair". in other words, ukrainian women don't know what they want. show them... :)

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]At the same time, it's also undeniable that if you ask light-skinned Ukrainian women which guys they find attractive they will say "dark eyes, dark hair". [/QUOTE]I am blond and blue-eyed, what shall I do?

Dr, you left out most of the world, Asians.

[QUOTE=Sean EZ]... You basically need to impress a girl there with your dancing skills ... [/QUOTE]

Yes, but forget those boring and time consuming salsa lessons. This is how you impress a Kiev girl with your salsa dancing:

1. Heave your corpulent frame onto the dance floor
2. Shake that backside
3. Make sure your wallet stuffed full of $50s drops out of your inside pocket onto the floor. Do this a few times to make sure enough people see just how loaded you are
4. Go home with salsa babe

Cruiser,

If you read my posts carefully you will see that I am talking about "white" Turks. I am also quite aware that my comments about "Westerners" were over generalizations. That's why I used to word "stereotypically".

Like it or not, it is quite true that Ukrainians/Russians perceive "Westerners", especially Americans, as boring and superficial. They also tend to take your civilized behavior as a sign of weakness.

I never said I am an American. I think you are mistaken.

I didn't deny Greece's contribution to Modern Europe. All I said was that in the contemporary Greece I don't feel in Europe. I don't give a shit about who rose out of whose ashes...

In the personals, you may have seen those comments. Millions of people from Russia and Ukraine visit Turkey every year. Turkey plays to the larger low/mid income segment of the market, hence lots provincial women vacation in Turkey and many of them fuck Turkish men. Add to that the thousands of Ukrainian prostitutes in Turkey. As a result, Ukrainian women have a certain reputation in Turkey. So, lots young Turkish studs hungry for sex (after all Turkey is middle eastern to a large degree, so sex is not easily available) bombard the girls on those websites with messages.

The results of the poll you suggested would be irrelevant. Because I never talked the "average Ali".

This is my last post on this topic. I look forward to your comments on the freebies I post in the pictures section.



[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Yeah you never mentioned Ukrainian girls hate Westerns, you just said 'Ukrainian girls perceive "Westerners", especially Americans, as boring, superficial, and weak'. I can feel the love, can't you? Not that statement anyway at all jives with reality. You must go to the same alternate Kiev that Evils goes to.

Never would have figured you were Turkish Hedo. Didn't you say at one point you were American? Or was I mistaken?

Picking up a Ukrainian girl in Kiev is about as hard as finding a taxi in Kiev. Picking up a very attractive girl in Kiev is on par with finding a taxi that isn't going to try to rip you off.

Greece made it contribution to Modern Europe long before the Ottoman Empire rose out of the ashes of the Byzantine Empire in the Dark Ages.

Most Ukrainian girls do not consider being Turkish a plus, actually it’s a big minus. When scrolling through online personal ads on Russian and Western sites I often see 'No Turkish men'. When I'm in Kiev for two months and date 100 or so girls I'll do a poll and post it on ISG.

1) Would you date a Turkish guy?
a) ok, would you talk to a Turkish guy?
2) Do you prefer dark hair?
3) Dark eyes?
4) Body hair?[/QUOTE]

Interestingly, Ukrainian women themselves vary in colouring from very blue-eyed and blonde to very southern Italian/Spanish looking. There are some celtic looking redheads too. I've seen the full range here.

Is there any pattern based on fairer women liking darker men and vice versa? Well, no, not that I've noticed.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]
Most Ukrainian girls do not consider being Turkish a plus, actually it’s a big minus. When scrolling through online personal ads on Russian and Western sites I often see 'No Turkish men'. When I'm in Kiev for two months and date 100 or so girls I'll do a poll and post it on ISG.

1) Would you date a Turkish guy?
a) ok, would you talk to a Turkish guy?
2) Do you prefer dark hair?
3) Dark eyes?
4) Body hair?[/QUOTE]

Cruiser, do remember that at the time she gives her answers she will be on a date with an American at an expensive joint like Fellini (or whichever is your current favourite..)

I predict the following answers:

1) No! I only date Americans. They are so handsome
1a) Of course not. What kind of girl do you think I am?
2) I like your hair. It is so soft, like a child.
3) I think American men have beautiful eyes. You are so kind.
4) Yes, it is manly

;)

Thank you for your take on Western - Turkish - Ukrainian relations. Truly, I've base all my information on 'Midnight Express' and the docudrama 'The Natashas'

If I started commenting on your freebies then you would really start to think I don't like you. I don't think we will be sharing the same Ukrainian girlfriend/sex toy dating pool anytime soon. The girls you date view Westerners as boring, superficial and too civilized. I'm far too civilized to mention what the Ukrainian girls I date think of Turks (in general).

[QUOTE=Hedonist] This is my last post on this topic. I look forward to your comments on the freebies I post in the pictures section.[/QUOTE]

Let me put it simply, and correct me if I am wrong (or not).

You implied that Ukrainian girls prefer Turkish men because they find Westerners (specifically Americans) as weak, boring and superficial. You then proceeded to lump Turks in with Italian, Greeks and Spanish. To me this simply goes against conventional wisdom and observed behavior.

So I can hurt everyone's feelings (in the spirit of Dr S). What average Ukrainian girls really prefer are Ukrainian/Russian men of the same age. Men who share their culture and are familiar to them. If you find a Ukrainian/Russian girl who has an interest in a foreign man 8 times out of 10 it's going to be for a civilized, weak, superficial, boring Westerner.

Ash, Fellini's has been out of favor for at least two years. Do people still go there? I do like the decor, ice cream and soup. I think the place is/was open extremely late. My current late night stop is Avalon, the cafe is pick up central and I like the food.

Oddly enough I usual get fairly straight forward answers from the girls I date in Kiev. I go through a lot of girls each time I'm in Kiev and tend to sort through them very fast.

I, for one, would love someone to chronicle her road to fame. Think of it as a wikipedia-like endeavor, short and snappy. I have read all reports about her on this forum and seen the pictures. I still don't quite get the magic. Is she a beast in bed, a pig or what?
I thought that early pictures of her were very sexy. But if she is like any other Russian girl I have known -- and I lived in Moscow for five years -- she drinks more than is good for her and smokes like a factory.
So is it unreasonable to entertain the possibility that mutual imbibing contributed to the magic?
She is a legend in her time. Why?

Vitt, MT is actually much better looking in person. I actually have a phone cam picture or two I snapped of her on the dance floor of River Palace in September. I took the pictures with the intention of posting them here but 1) She's overexposed here (pun intended) 2) I have a long stand rule of not posting girls in compromising positions (ie here is a picture of a ho I picked up at RP).

The popularity of MT here is no mystery. She is/was a great ho.

Yes its true that at River Palace, she stood out from the crowd, because of her bubbly outgoing personality. That combined with a wildness in bed made her memorable to the mongerers who recognized the fotos some of us posted.

But the mystery is that she didn't develop her sluttiness over a period of time. I can say for certain now that for anyone on ISG that claims to have found her, I can confirm that she was already a maniac after her first 2 weeks of tramping for Zhana, mamachka queen of Kiev 2000 to 2003.

Anyone who talks to her now, just ask her how she first began her tramping all those years ago, and she'll remember Zhana, who was likely repsonsible for ingraining in her that they wilder she was, the more money she could make.

Even more mysterious is that nobody has ever seemed to recognize any of these ladies, all of them little trampettes, in their own rite.

Hedonist demonstrates the typical turkish pride. In fact Turkey has little to offer to an ukrainian girl. The GDP per capita in Turkey is 10000$ per year while in Ukraine it stands at 8000$ per year. So a girl moving to Turkey is not going to be benefited economically while she will probably lose many of her freedoms, possibilities to get many boyfriends etc which she enjoys in Ukraine.

GDP per capita in Greece is 28000$, in Italy 32000$ and in Spain 35000$ per year. So these countries offer considerably more opportunities for career and income advancement than does Turkey. They are on a different level than Ukraine in terms of economic development.

The advantage of Turkey is that ukrainian girls obtain easily visa to get there. This means that you can have a girl coming to you without having to travel to Ukraine at all. This unfortunately does not happen in countries belonging to EU due to strict rules regarding visas to former FSU. It is a pity all these babies end up in turkish crowded beaches having no alternative than Turkey or Bulgaria (now after integration into EU situation in Bulgaria might change as well). If these girls manage somehow to gain access to West, feminazis will start to take it anally.

In my opinion every nationality has good and bad aspects regarding picking up women. The americans maybe seem weak, talk a lot etc but they use very powerful techniques in pick up. I use the same techniques and they really work. People who have seen me talking to girls have called me proffessional or pimp. I have picked up girls all over Europe, in Germany, Norway, Austria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Hungary, Ukraine etc using american techniques. They get you in a very high level of game if you know what you do and apply them to your personality. I had discovered some of them alone when I started to hit clubs but there is much stuff I did not know, for example how to talk in groups, how to transit from cocky and funny to sexual state, how to cope up with the cockblock, how to avoid the AMOG, how to isolate the girl and many, many other problems, I had not solved in short period and the americans gave me the tools to approach and solve them.

So if I using american techniques look like a proffessional to european eyes, imagine how the people who invented them look. And how many others with far more advanced techniques are out there in USA. So respect to the americans. We have a lot to learn from them.

The other thing that helps greatly in pick up is the army. If you have joined the army, you will have developed some features that help with women in my opinion. Basically it has to do with leading. The army tries to destroy your personality to make you useful and able to be leaded. If some people have done this to you, you can do the same to women. Their resistance will not count because the resistance you put as a man when they fucked you in the army was much stronger and it did not count. So the army offers a frame that helps in pick up dynamics. You have lived the action, the hardness, the bad behaviour, the tooling, the double standards that you will meet with women in a much toucher environment, that of the army, which demands all your forces to the extreme. After that women are not a big deal.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

I know the girl who is in the last three pictures. That's Melona Hootertov!

Bez, you dog!

Guys, if you read my posts carefully you will see that I never talked about Turkish men in general. I talked about a certain breed of Turk who tends to be exceptionally successful with the devushkas.

The source for my comments about Westerners are necessarily the girls I date. I have male Ukrainian friends. Some of them are pretty connected. I work with Ukrainians. I live here.

I don't know in which clubs you guys hang out, but I have free entrance to most top clubs in Kiev (Tsar, Barsky etc. because I now know the right people). I have access to backrooms into which many of you can never step in. Avalon is a shithole, if you are picking up your girls from Avalon, Caribbean Club, River Palace etc, we indeed are not dating the girls from the same pool.

Turkey is clearly a middle GDP country and lags behind Europe. However, a girls does not date Turkey, she dates an individual. As an individual, I make close to USD 200K net and GDP of Turkey looks quite irrelevant to my girls.

If you look at the statistics on marriages between Russians girls and foreign men you'll see following ranking: 1) Americans 2) Turks 3) Germans 4) Scandinavians (source: Komsomolskaya Pravda). Ani Lorak (one of hottest pop stars of Ukraine) is also getting married to a Turk. Coincidence?

I don't give a shit about what you think about Turkey and Turks. It is not my mission in life to promote Turkey. I tried to offer an alternative view on how Ukrainians/Russians perceive "Westerners" , but it is not well taken. So be it. Let's drop this topic and move on.

I did read your posts - Turks exciting, Westerners boring. Did I miss something? Oh, you mean your an exceptional breed of Turk, why didn't you just say so.

You are just discovering psuedo elite clubs in your 40's how exciting for you. Been there, done that in my 20's now it's just boring. Club girls are generally a waste of time unless you find it exciting to hook up with a vapid candy w hore. I wasn't refering to Azure, I was refering to the cafe in Avalon. I was going to Caribbean before Arena, Tsar or Barsky exsisted. What can I say, I used to like 111 and Caribbean - haven't been to either in at least two years. Free access to the backroom of a club in Kiev, how exciting. Call me when you can skip the rope in NYC.

Westerners boring and weak. Turks exciting and strong. We get it.

[QUOTE=Hedonist]Guys, if you read my posts carefully you will see that I never talked about Turkish men in general. I talked about a certain breed of Turk who tends to be exceptionally successful with the devushkas.

I don't know in which clubs you guys hang out, but I have free entrance to most top clubs in Kiev (Tsar, Barsky etc. because I now know the right people). I have access to backrooms into which many of you can never step in. Avalon is a shithole, if you are picking up your girls from Avalon, Caribbean Club, River Palace etc, we indeed are not dating the girls from the same pool.


I don't give a shit about what you think about Turkey and Turks. It is not my mission in life to promote Turkey. I tried to offer an alternative view on how Ukrainians/Russians perceive "Westerners" , but it is not well taken. So be it. Let's drop this topic and move on.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Hedonist]Guys, if you read my posts carefully you will see that I never talked about Turkish men in general. I talked about a certain breed of Turk who tends to be exceptionally successful with the devushkas.

The source for my comments about Westerners are necessarily the girls I date. I have male Ukrainian friends. Some of them are pretty connected. I work with Ukrainians. I live here.

I don't know in which clubs you guys hang out, but I have free entrance to most top clubs in Kiev (Tsar, Barsky etc. because I now know the right people). I have access to backrooms into which many of you can never step in. Avalon is a shithole, if you are picking up your girls from Avalon, Caribbean Club, River Palace etc, we indeed are not dating the girls from the same pool.

Turkey is clearly a middle GDP country and lags behind Europe. However, a girls does not date Turkey, she dates an individual. As an individual, I make close to USD 200K net and GDP of Turkey looks quite irrelevant to my girls.

If you look at the statistics on marriages between Russians girls and foreign men you'll see following ranking: 1) Americans 2) Turks 3) Germans 4) Scandinavians (source: Komsomolskaya Pravda). Ani Lorak (one of hottest pop stars of Ukraine) is also getting married to a Turk. Coincidence?

I don't give a shit about what you think about Turkey and Turks. It is not my mission in life to promote Turkey. I tried to offer an alternative view on how Ukrainians/Russians perceive "Westerners" , but it is not well taken. So be it. Let's drop this topic and move on.[/QUOTE]

Strange that seems the future prime minsiters daughter married an English guy and i would guess you have changed English to Turk on your ranking as there is no mention, and yes I am english and trust me for 1. Girls and 2. business, being english opens many more doors for me than a few back rooms in nightclubs, and by the way your wage? is that to show off? I have spent that on a two week holiday.
You know the right people where in clubs in Kiev? and thats good contacts?
Try telling me how many people you can contact personally in parliment then we are fishing in the same pool! Dont try to tell anyone whos got the biggest as you will loose. You have a driver? a S class merc in 2 towns? and security?
Wind your neck in.

She came and it was nice, she wants to work in an agency and begged me on pictures... so we used the costume (waiter) and she even got it... after a night she stealed my caviar!!! The pig and then told it was the punishment for the pictures... punishment?

She got her from most of us the best reports!

Big Pig be aware!

IT

[QUOTE=Hedonist]

I am a certain breed of Turk who tends to be exceptionally successful with the devushkas.

The source for my comments are the girls I date.

I live here.

I have free entrance to top clubs in Kiev because I know the right people

I have access to backrooms you can never step in.

I make USD 200K and look quite irrelevant.

I look at statistics. Coincidence?

I don't give a shit about you Turkeys.

[/QUOTE]

Just TERMINALLY boring!

The discussion is pointless. All these dynamics of nationalities do not play any role at all for a simple reason. There are not many people of one particular nationality living in Kiev. So it does not matter if an individual Turk or English has success with women because it depends on his individual characteristics and technique and not on his nationality. Everybody has to work it out himself, you cannot rely on contacts to bring you girls because there are not many people of your nationality living in the same place as to provide you contacts. Simple as that. It is the personal ability that counts.

Of course there are people who would like to build a network of exclusivity and leave the others out of hunting. To build such closed, private clubs etc, you need more people than actually exist in Kiev as foreigners. So it remains free hunting. It is free for all. Do you have the technique? This only counts. You cannot exclude the others or freeze them out. You have to face the competition. It is competitive, not monopoly system.

I do not care if somebody is in the back room if I can enter the fron room. I do not care about high-class clubs because I know that the chances are in the middle class clubs and there nobody will deny the entrance to me. Since I am in, I will use my techniques to get every girl available. The others cannot stop me or freeze me out. They have to compete me and if they are on a higher level I will lose, if not I will win. This is competition, guys. There are no laws like in real life.
I came to Carribean and it was full of foreigners. Foreigners in the bar, foreigners dancing, foreigners watching. All had come for the girls. I entered with two girls and left with another girl. The other foreigners managed nothing with any girl despite their nationality. Simple as that. Can they beat me or get me out or spread rumors about me? No. So they will face competition. They will have to be above me. It is ruthless. Nobody is going to take care of you or compensate you for not getting any girl. You play and win or you play and lose. There are not many other foreign men of the same nationality to change the game.

[QUOTE=Qjump]

my wages rank more than your wage

to show off I spent that on a holiday and contact many people in parliment

l got the biggest

you lose

have a driver S class merc in 2 towns and security

Winy.

[/QUOTE]

Please move this garbage to the Prague thread where it belongs, where it is fashionable to impress everyone with your incredibly powerful status.

Or isn't she impressed?

The reason for my post is the way a simpleton from Turkey trys to tell us has it all boxed off in Ukraine when to be real he is just another Turkish man, and looked upon as such by most in Ukraine.
The majority of Ukrainian girls do not like arabic men fact.
The only girls who do are ones taking money for sex and lets be honest they like anyone with a $$$ in his pocket.

Bez, how do you keep finding apartments with the world's ugliest couches?

Just in case I fall uncharacteristically silent. I will be saving my 500th post for when I am in Kiev in a couple of weeks.

Doctor Skank has posted long time ago excellent posts on the mistakes that Western men make with Slavic women and has pointed out what the correct attitude should be. I was actually referring to the same stuff when I said Westerners are perceived weak and superficial... I guess you just don't like it when you hear it from a Turk.

Qjump: This simpleton from Turkey... Did it make you feel good insulting me? Did I ever say I've got the biggest? Cruiser D from his Avalon cafe chair was talking with his "listen to me little man" tone. My comments about nightlife and my financial details were to give him an answer. For my age, I am doing pretty well. I was not meaning to show off. Actually what I make/spend is nothing compared to what my Ukrainian friends make/spend. I was just trying to show that GDP of Turkey is irrelevant as we are talking about individuals here.

No doubt that being American, English, French, etc is opening many doors and I never claimed that Turkey is in the same league.

The ranking of marriages is from Komsomolskaya Pravda. I didn't change anything. English men were not in the list, which I think is actually a complement to them.

Cruiser D: You missed the whole point. Did you ever read a book cover to cover? It seems to me that you have serious difficulties in understanding written material. By the way, I just finished my 20's. There is a long way until my 40's...


[QUOTE=Qjump]Strange that seems the future prime minsiters daughter married an English guy and i would guess you have changed English to Turk on your ranking as there is no mention, and yes I am english and trust me for 1. Girls and 2. business, being english opens many more doors for me than a few back rooms in nightclubs, and by the way your wage? is that to show off? I have spent that on a two week holiday.
You know the right people where in clubs in Kiev? and thats good contacts?
Try telling me how many people you can contact personally in parliment then we are fishing in the same pool! Dont try to tell anyone whos got the biggest as you will loose. You have a driver? a S class merc in 2 towns? and security?
Wind your neck in.[/QUOTE]

Turks aren't Arabs, QJump, you stupid fuck.

Hedo, you did write this correct?

"If you are a "white" Turk you actually would have an edge over "Westerners" here in Kiev. Stereotypically, Ukrainian girls perceive "Westerners", especially Americans, as boring, superficial, and weak (because they are too civilized for Ukrainian girls). Both Turks and Ukrainians are not European and they tend to click quite well culturally. Same goes for Greeks and Italians. However, the Turks who crowd the River Palace are the middle eastern types (think Grand Bazaar carpet sellers) and it is clear that girls prefer "Westerners" over these types. In the final analysis, who you are and how you present yourself has much more weight than your passport, especially for girls who just look for fun."

I didn't Bez you, that is what your wrote?

Turks fun and exciting, Westerners boring and weak right?

You are completely off the mark with Ukrainian girls. Then you go on and throw a little bit more oddness into everything by lumping Turks in with Greeks, Italians and Ukrainians - who I guess aren't actually European.

Then you go on to further say that Ukrainian girls prefer Westerners to low class Turks, who engage in the occupation of selling carpets. But since your a 'white' Turk you are more like Italians and Greeks.

Did I understand all your nonsense correctly?

Oddly enough I never remember Dr S saying Western men are weak and superficial. What I got from your post is, I'm a cool macho white Turk who has it all over Westerners.

You don't have to tell us your in your early thirties Hedo - we aren't some dyevushka you need to lie to. We love you for who you are.

As far as who is rich, powerful and exciting, when I need to move to Kiev to work for a salary I will know it isn't me.

Three more reports to go. Use them wisely.

[QUOTE=Dickhead]Turks aren't Arabs, QJump, you stupid fuck.[/QUOTE]

So your'e telling me they are ? what? european?
Dickhead is a good name for you.

Why not stop this stupid discussion, it has nothing to do with the purpose of ISG!

Been saving this for my 108th post.

I now know I am the the 'man'. 'cuz. I scored the tri-fecta!

MILF. 16 weeks ago. Dilf. (her daughter) last week. Bilf. (babushka/granny) yesterday. No-one can match ls guy!

So Baba Alla comes for a 2 day stay, I have drank vodka with her several times and always have gotten a 'vibe'! She is actually younger than me! God I luv ukraine!

So, we were spending the afternoon alone shopping and drinking and cooking and drinking. I finally just said "ya, want you! " (I want you) as I pointed my finger from her to me. A smile, a hug, a kiss and the rest is history!

That night at the dinner table and actually all night I was waiting for the 'shit to hit'? Alla is a good girl and she can keep a secret!

I am including 2 photos from last summer that are on the home computer, late 40's and smoking hott body! And my sons wonder why 'ol dad lives in Ukraine!

Ps. Any guys visiting Donestk and wants an older

"Then you go on to further say that Ukrainian girls prefer Westerners to low class Turks, who engage in the occupation of selling carpets...". If that's really what you understood, I would be very sorry for you, Cruiser D. Doc talked several times how Westerners may appear weak, but you are right, probably he didn't talk about superficialness. It is my bad.

The whole time I tried to make a point while staying within limits of respect. It is amazing how some guys here can so easily start insulting others who just express their ideas.

For the record: I am not a macho. I wish I was one. I indeed just finished my 20s. The ranking was truly from Komsomolskaya Pravda. Turks are not Arabs. Calling Turks as Arabs actually shows how uninformed some of the people here are and the very same people can shamelessly call others simpletons.

This is a fruitless polemic and nobody here will change his presumptions. So this is my last post on the topic.

[QUOTE=Qjump]So your'e telling me they are ? what? european?
Dickhead is a good name for you.[/QUOTE]

And CruiserD did not tell us what happened to him during the two week stay in Kiev. He wrote he had 50 internet contacts to meet. The questions are:

1. How many of them did he actually meet
2. How many of the ones he met did he bang
3. How much money he spent on average date
4. How fruitfull was the hunting in clubs where some people here claim that 50% of the girls are available.

I call the above real information and of value for the monger.

Hecker: I absolutely agree with your 1st paragraph. For a long-term relationships these would valid considerations. This is a strange country. I have some girlfriends that I have dumped after a few fucks. They insist on seeing me just for the fun of it. They all know I managing several girls at the same time (I openly tell this to them). In this kind of easy relationships where the basis is simple fun or for nightclub pick-ups those considerations are hardly relevant. Even if they were relevant, it would not matter because I am talking about individuals, not averages, not countries.

Turkey actually offers much better conditions than Ukraine. You should be out of your mind to make the comment in your 2nd paragraph.

Ottoman economy was truly based on plundering, capturing new lands, etc. That is true. Ottomans were simply capturing new countries and taxing them. That was the common practice at some point in time. Same was practiced by other world economies. But, your sentence : "The times they were in a place (like Balkans, Middle East and Africa), there are no monuments to be found, the history seems to stop because they built absolutely nothing." is total bullshit and ridiculous.

What fuck were Germans doing in France, in Ukraine, in Russia? Who killed 16 million Russians in Russia who were trying to defend their land during the 2nd world war? Who killed millions of Jews? What the fuck America is doing in Iraq right now? I am sorry but there are quite a number of wild countries out there. Ottomans were not the only one...

To enlighten you a bit:

This is quote from the the description of an exhibition about Turks at the London Royal Academy of Arts:

... A new exhibition at the London Royal Academy of Arts charts the rich history and culture of the Turks from Inner Asia to Europe in 600-1600...

... Linked by political alliance rather than kinship the Ottomans exploited internal strife within the Byzantine Empire to invade Byzantium. They even laid siege to Belgrade and Vienna. In 1453 under Mehmed II – ‘The Conqueror’ – the Ottomans finally captured Constantinople, which they later renamed Istanbul, and it was here they established their imperial court. Like the Great Seljuks and Timur before them, the Ottomans were great patrons of the arts, commissioning works of art and literature of exceptional quality and beauty.

Throughout the Middle East and Balkans there is a rich Turkish heritage. Turks have been always the "other" for Europeans and that is not going to change any time soon. I am sorry but the fact you are ignorant and don't know a shit about my culture and doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. You are simply an uninformed ignorant guy. Go and do your homework before you write such misinformation.

[QUOTE=Hedonist] I would be very sorry for you, Cruiser D. Doc talked several times how Westerners may appear weak, but you are right, probably he didn't talk about superficialness. It is my bad.
[/QUOTE]
Hedonist, I didn't specifically mean westerners or particularly Americans are inherentely weak or superficial... or even that most Ukrainians think so. I just presented the negative stereotype at it's extreme... along with Turks are sadistic woman-haters etc. etc. Cruiser thankfully pointed out that I forgot to insult the world's largest ethnic group, Asians, although this actually encompasses several extremely different ethic groups. An Indian is not a Chinese is not a Thai is not a Japanese obviously. I don't feel like I need to insult them, I am in a better mood today and besides that, the Asians I have met in EE have been very decent worldly guys and did just fine with the devs.

I work with Turks business-wise and really like my partners... their business methods are chaotic at best, but I've had good experiences with them. I have mostly positive things to say about the Turks on a personal level.

Who does best in EE? I think most do fine... yourself included, at least by your own description.

Do Ukrainians prefer Turks in any way?

I'm obviously not Turk... but Turks are the ethnic nationality I hear most often referred to when it comes to "the kind I would not fuck". Girls fucking Turks are considered lower class. Doesn't mean the girls aren't worth fucking... I've screwed my share of lower class chicks over the years, but they are the lower end of the totem pole socially.

I tend to think if Turkish guys were a bit less "Turkish" in their methods, they'd do much better. The Turkish guys scoring the best are those who are more European/American in their methods than the more typical whistling-groping type.

I had a conversation with a Russian girl on the subject recently and she said that some Russian girls do fuck Turkish guys on holiday, but it still doesn't change the fact that they hate them. You have to ask yourself who is using who. Went bowling in Kiev... got laid. Bowling=sex in EE... hooray! But the girl I was with got a bit upset because some guys were calling her a "foreigner fucking *****"... and I am as about as white as it gets and even speak decent Russian. Imagine what the general opinion is of Turks.

Cruiser, do you actually live in Kiev these days or just make long trips there? How long do you stay on average? I assume it's weeks rather than days, based on the number of girls you date.

And - are you still doing the NYC cabbing job, or are you more or less retired from that now?

For the past couple of years I've been making weekend trips from London every couple of months or so; basically turning up with no contact info and talking to any girl in the street or in clubs who'll give me the time of day.

Initially this worked really well - particularly at 112, from where I would either take them home on the night or kiss them etc. and meet for a date the next day. On a subsequent visits I could either see them again or find someone new. I thought the week end formula was done and dusted.

But it's got a lot tougher recently and I've been doing progressively worse :( I really now think spending the time on lead generation, dating and generally building momentum over a period of time is critical. Do you agree?

(do you remember me? ) You were at my birthday for drinks in small bar on Basenya. Elvira?

So, when I moved here in 2003, you could hardly walk K street without meeting, talking, scoring. My 1st experience was around 10: 30pm on a Monday and saw 2 young ones. Stepped into the cafe, 1 pivo and 2 juices later we were on the way to the flat with the promise of some shopping. They were sisters and I had no reason to doubt. The younger (PLAYBOY) material wouldn't do much with me, but I did end up having these 2 for several outings over the next 2 motnhs until I moved in with Elena.

Point is, those days are indeed gone. Hell, I can't even get a 'Queen' to stop now in center. But since I live here, and am on the public transport everyday. I am always adding to my database!

Unless you are willing to spend big $$ on the 3 day stop over, 'times will be TUFF'!

It's always about MONEY!

Would love to see you next time you are here. Your 1 guy I met that actually seemed NORMAL! (Irish Lad has my email)

LS Guy in Winter Wonderland

Ladies that will attend a private cocktail party. These are not p4p. But, I think any of you fawkers would love at least one!

At the very least it will be fun! Who is around in the next 2 weeks or so before the actual 31st?

We would make it a late/early evening affair and if ya scored you have the night. If ya don't. 'you have the night' to go elsewhere.

And the biggest plus! You get to meet the 'nicest guy' in kyiv!

Ls guy

[QUOTE=Ash1001]But it's got a lot tougher recently and I've been doing progressively worse :( I really now think spending the time on lead generation, dating and generally building momentum over a period of time is critical. Do you agree?[/QUOTE]
There is only so much that can be accomplished online, the real test is face to face contact. Every girl will tell you that they decide within the first 5 minutes of real contact whether or not they will fuck you.

Our only mission is to not fuck it up!

I didn't mean online at all. I'm a 100% offline guy. Which is a little weird for an IT consultant perhaps, but I've always felt that a real man will show his balls and make a face to face approach. If two humans can't say Hi directly then what is the world coming to?

By lead generation I mean getting a girl's phone number in a bar or club. Which in itself means you're on the back foot because you haven't managed to get her home there and then.

Hey Guys!!

I just got back from Kiev just over one week ago now!Great experience as ever,this is my fourth visit to this beautiful pussy lovely city,will write more of my trip over next few days but just wanted to write about what this one girl told me about what goes on in river palace and the type of guys she meets.It was the last night of my stay so after going around some of the bars with another guy from this forum,we ended up in RP at about 1am,place still quite busy with girls being available,anyway i picked up on this 30 year who i had seen before on an earlier visit,anyway after getting back to my apartment we talked for abit and i asked her if guys will still pay 300 dollars for 2 hours,this is what she wanted me to pay her to begin with but after some haggling she dropped down to 250 for 3 hours,which i agreed to because it was my last night i had to leave early next morning,so didn't want to be in river palace come 5am still trying to find a girl for only little money to pay.But what she told me about some of the guys i could not believe,some of her younger friends will not go with any guy for less than 300--500 dollars for 2 hours,depending on how hot the girl is.She has known one guy who has paid girl 300 dollars just to talk for one hour with her he didn't want any sex just talk,some other guys have become too drunk and after getting back to apartment have paid girl money then fallen asleep for rest of night,most of the girls on an average night will have no problem in finding guys who will pay 300 dollars for 2 hours,but in reality the girl never stays that long,if guy has paid for 2 hours then it equals only 60 minutes to most of the girls there,once man has come once then girl will look to have shower and then get ready to go,if it is early in night still they will want to get back to pick up another guy. She says that girls are making large sums of money that is given to different family members,as well as girl spends money on herself,if any family member asks about money girl just says that she has found good job in company that pays well.

Many business people passing through Kiev use RP and are not worried about haggling on prices which is making it difficult for any normal guy who hasn't got that sort of money to throw around. Don't like the place so much now myself,when i first went to Kiev back last year i thought i was in some sort of paradise,but now would rather hit the clubs or cafes around Kiev,much more fun in the chase and sex is so much better as well.

I will go back to Kiev in January,but this time i have very nice girlfriend waiting for me who i found on this last trip.It seems to me that river palace is ok, if you can find girl who only goes there once in a while or any new girl in Kiev for weekend arrives there,if not then you are left with nearly all the same faces who go there everynight and once they have your money are ready to quickly get you off so they can get taxi back to RP to find another customer.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

[QUOTE=Ash1001]I didn't mean online at all. I'm a 100% offline guy. Which is a little weird for an IT consultant perhaps, but I've always felt that a real man will show his balls and make a face to face approach. If two humans can't say Hi directly then what is the world coming to?

By lead generation I mean getting a girl's phone number in a bar or club. Which in itself means you're on the back foot because you haven't managed to get her home there and then.[/QUOTE]
Whether face to face or online, it's still a numbers game IMHO. On first or second dates you never know if it's a waste of time or going to lead to a score until you are pulling her pants off. I mix both... when going to a new city I use online contacts to get the ball rolling... some of which pan out into gold and some of which are a waste of time. By 3-4 days in country you usually have more than enough leads to pursue anyway.

Street game is still the bigger challenge, much more ballsy than online or club/bar lead generation.

Getting girls to come home with you straight from the club still happens, but depending on the circumstances "just" getting a number is often as good as you'll do on opening night. Especially in smaller cities or clubs that girls often frequent, sometimes she can't go home with you. Particularly in the smaller cities girls have reputations to protect and don't like to be seen leaving the club with some foreign guy they just met. She's a completely different animal in a different environment.

I'll often find that girls who are somewhat subdued or overly cautious in the club can be wild animals behind closed doors... and sometimes it's just the opposite, crazy dancing sexy girls turning out to be very conservative in a different setting. Obviously it's the same online... you can get quite far online, but it means very little in comparison to how the real dates go.

When leaving Kiev I thought why do not stay (if available) with the MT? So I had already phoned her and she even asked for some pics by mail, so I sent them.

She arrived and was very nice, no problem, making a lot of sex and drinking wine and eating cheese: she wanted a lot of pics for her “portfolio”, she wants to be a porn star or to marry a guy (strange or not?). She want even to work for an agency (???). So I think she is a little bit mad!

By the way we made a lot of pics (soon post 30 in pic section, so you can see the dress and the room are the same of Inga (nailed before for two days!).

When she gets drunk (just a little) she still makes an outstanding BBBJ, and then gave me the coice of CIM, COF or COB (not so much there!). I went for COF, while she is handcuffed on the bed and (despite she was not so willing) to pic her with COF… :D

We even tried a small plug of my assortment, but she said she is not any more in to anal! :( She was always complying on her face on the pics. Not photogenic (she is very photogenic in doggy! :D)

Her body is as remembered: skinny 163/46 with no china bone skin, more tanned, and a nice unshaven pussy. She seems still allergic to water! Still stinking a little (just a little bit) of sweat.

She was very nice and excited with the sexy waiter dress! So I thought I can leave it to her (60 € at Beate Uhse). In the morning we made again a lot of sex (but no BBBJ) and a nice time. She was sleeping on the sofa on ground she said I was snoring too much!

At the end she went away round 10 a.m. (arrived 11 p.m.) Total damage 300 $ and a bottle of Chianti for 110 UAH.

Before coming she phoned me if I had condoms, of course… and when leaving me she phoned again telling she had a present and look in the fridge: the big box of Beluga I brought was away! The pig! The thieve! She said me I hurt her with pics! She was asking for some use and she even got a USB pendrive with all the copies, of course she well knows I’m using them here and I know at least five members asking me for the phone number. Instaed of being happy she stole my ikra! :(

In my opinion it was due to the things I said, referred from Bez, of course he has no responsibility, but looking on a 10-20 seconds grim face they must be true!

So I will not more give away the Mystery Tramp number!

And if you go with her BE AWARE OF YOUR BELONGINS!!!

By the way she has also a page on flirt (or whatever, the data base is the same!): [url]http://www.flirt.com.ua/sweetmail-a5346/[/url]

IT

Look soon at photo section...

Kiev1 and IT Travel, great reports! you are lucky guys with gorgeous experiences. there are some shadows, too, but they are part of slavic culture that every monger has to know about.

It travel, It travel.... so it is true - it always ends in tears.

And so ends one of ISG's longest lasting love affairs, MT and IT, no longer to dot the "i"s and cross the "t"s.

Any hope for a New Year's, "let's make up, session" ?

Enjoy and get back up and at 'em, IT.

Shes even added your picture to her flirt profile!!!!
None of her eating the black stuff though ;o))

Kiev1,

Nice to see that you enjoy, Kiev1. Maybe we can meet again in January? What you report here is exactly in agreement with my feeling after our joint trip there. I wrote about this very hot girl with whom I spent 3 nights, and what you tell me echos what she said: that she easily could make USD 6-800 many/most nights - either 2 guys short time or one allnighter.

[blue]Gentlemen,

The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange of information between Men on the subject of finding Women for Sex.

Let's get back to the subject.

Thank You,

Jackson[/blue]

as i am a turk, i often feel the deep hatred of the european males' whenever i tried to talk to the about anything (sex, politics, mpney, culture etc.)everything they bring comes to some f. ng six hundred years ago some of my forefathers revaged some parts of europe. they always forget how many times they made mess of the other parts of the world. they have butchered, slaughtered almost every nation, race in the world apart from turks. they have never had a chance to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] turkish nation. this is the reason which lies under deep subconscience of the european male who dislikes or hates turks. incompitence is the word. we turks, like yourselves, love women company. some of us like yourselves are idiots who don't know how to tread women. some of us ignorant fools, like yourselves, has no clue about what other's feelings. we, like youselves, are humanbeigns who can make mistakes. and we are in the 21st century and let's enjoy what god has given us and forget the past. live in peace. i don't care what my forefathers did. i care what i do. this forum is for mongering not for some idiotic racism discussions.

Jackson is right. There are so many gorgeous single women in Ukraine, and five guys regular posters can't stop arguing.. turkish, frensh, american, GDP.. what difference does it make? Come on already.

[QUOTE=Admin][blue]Gentlemen,

The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange of information between Men on the subject of finding Women for Sex.

Let's get back to the subject.

Thank You,

Jackson[/blue][/QUOTE]

Newbie to Kiev looking for a reliable guide for my upcoming trip. For meeting locals girls on the street/setting up dates/agency girls ect...

I do not speak Russian so may have a bit of a difficult time getting around or is using a guide just unnecessary? Do you guys typically stay in the apartments or hotel. Any recommendations would be appreciated

[QUOTE=Rob Hay]Newbie to Kiev looking for a reliable guide for my upcoming trip. For meeting locals girls on the street/setting up dates/agency girls ect...

I do not speak Russian so may have a bit of a difficult time getting around or is using a guide just unnecessary? Do you guys typically stay in the apartments or hotel. Any recommendations would be appreciated[/QUOTE]Rob Hay,

Please read the forum here closely, most of your questions are answered before. And go for an apartment, not hotel!

[QUOTE=Rob Hay]Newbie to Kiev looking for a reliable guide for my upcoming trip. For meeting locals girls on the street/setting up dates/agency girls ect...

I do not speak Russian so may have a bit of a difficult time getting around or is using a guide just unnecessary? Do you guys typically stay in the apartments or hotel. Any recommendations would be appreciated[/QUOTE]Meeting girls on the street will be difficult.In fact in Kiev center and metro will be a disappointing experience.You have to move to suburbs and there you need russian.

You should have prearranged some contacts through internet personals,let's say 10-15 girls to meet when you come.Of them half will meet you and one third-one fourth of the ones you met will want to sleep with you on second-third date.

Clubs for picking up are Carribean,Kaif.Of course you can try PatiPa,Decadence as well.This discussion has already been made in the forum.

You will use taxi most of the time,cause in metro you have to pay attention to thieves.And you will have to move quickly from date to date,you will have to move at night when there is no public transportation,so I doubt about the use of the map.You need to learn some basic russian words and expressions before you come.

Hotels in Kiev are mostly(80%) old soviet style and rather expensive for what they offer.Most foreigners stay in apartments and the prices they pay vary.Personally I have found an apartment that costs 60-70$(which is considered low price in the center).Most owners want that you pay by western Union beforehand for the appartment.So the situation is a little tricky because when you caome they may say that the appartment you chose is already booked and will offer you another apartment.There are many tricks with the appartments,so I let regular travellers inform you about this subject.

[QUOTE=Excess] it always ends in tears.[/QUOTE]

What can you mean, Mr. Excess? :)

Yeah.. it always ends in tears.

[QUOTE=Hecker]Meeting girls on the street will be difficult.In fact in Kiev center and metro will be a disappointing experience.You have to move to suburbs and there you need russian.

You should have prearranged some contacts through internet personals,let's say 10-15 girls to meet when you come.Of them half will meet you and one third-one fourth of the ones you met will want to sleep with you on second-third date.

Clubs for picking up are Carribean,Kaif.Of course you can try PatiPa,Decadence as well.This discussion has already been made in the forum.

You will use taxi most of the time,cause in metro you have to pay attention to thieves.And you will have to move quickly from date to date,you will have to move at night when there is no public transportation,so I doubt about the use of the map.You need to learn some basic russian words and expressions before you come.

Hotels in Kiev are mostly(80%) old soviet style and rather expensive for what they offer.Most foreigners stay in apartments and the prices they pay vary.Personally I have found an apartment that costs 60-70$(which is considered low price in the center).Most owners want that you pay by western Union beforehand for the appartment.So the situation is a little tricky because when you caome they may say that the appartment you chose is already booked and will offer you another apartment.There are many tricks with the appartments,so I let regular travellers inform you about this subject.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for help ;)

IT

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Yeah.. it always ends in tears.[/QUOTE]

Just 20 cm higher.... :D

IT

[QUOTE=It Travel]Just 20 cm higher.... :D

IT[/QUOTE]
The face got some too, the first part of the load... that part is on video. :)

That's the nightmare of trying to document everything... when do you use the camera, when do you use the videocamera and when do you just fuck?

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]The face got some too, the first part of the load... that part is on video. :)

That's the nightmare of trying to document everything... when do you use the camera, when do you use the videocamera and when do you just fuck?[/QUOTE]

To quote renowned etiquette expert, Miss Manners: "If you are ever unsure in a social situation, it is always correct to just fuck". Followed the good lady's advice on this for years across the globe. It has never let me down. ;-))

@ Digital - ;-)) about time for the real low down on foreign parts?

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]The face got some too, the first part of the load... that part is on video. :)

That's the nightmare of trying to document everything... when do you use the camera, when do you use the videocamera and when do you just fuck?[/QUOTE]

Of course not, I just do some pics for fun, sometimes.... not always... I never did any shafting anally Valentina in Moscow and she has been shaftet there at least ten times (and still tight!).

I like to make some pics, before and after, or when playing with tools, otherwise I'm totally concentrated on what I'm doing ;)

But a nice face covered with spunk! It's a good pic, specially if it's mine! :D

IT

[QUOTE=Rob Hay]Newbie to Kiev looking for a reliable guide for my upcoming trip. For meeting locals girls on the street/setting up dates/agency girls ect...

I do not speak Russian so may have a bit of a difficult time getting around or is using a guide just unnecessary? Do you guys typically stay in the apartments or hotel. Any recommendations would be appreciated[/QUOTE]
I don't know about a guide to help you pick up girls on the street, but I think there is a role for some of us (newbies) for a guide.

For a start, it is a good opener to use with internet girls - will you be my guide/interpreter? It also provides a mechanism to offer her money without treating her like a P4P. If you are travelling on business, you may be able to expense some of this "interpreter" fee, which subsidizes the whole relationship. You may or may not want to be explicit up-front that this is a package deal - that you will be getting 24 hour service. In most cases, that should not be necessary - either she will assume that from the start, or you ditch her after the first night if she has not responded to your incentive scheme. Then you both get to enjoy the illusion that this is not P4P.

At the very least it gets you a date on your first night in town, with the possibility of romance, and orients you to the city. Also, with many girls you can be direct that you are hunting, and maybe they will help. They have friends, can talk to girls in clubs, etc.

I know a lot of guys here will think this is overkill, and favour a more direct P4P or freebie approach, but for a newbie with limited game, it can be a good way to ease into the action. It worked for me.

Good luck!

Is anyone aware of a tochka in Kiev or in another Ukraine city? Donesk or Dnepro or Miriopol? I have heard about them- would like to see and maybe try one. Any guidance would be appreciated. PM me if you would rather not post the answer.

For the advise, I have a good start going and will report when i return.

Kaif has been closed very long time ago. Which is sad, it was an OK club and girls were very approachable there. For easy girls try Radio Hall (on Naberazhnoe Shosse) or Avalon (the disco in the Avalon entertainment complex is called Azhure). Girls in this segment of clubs are easily approachable, many are students, but in terms of beauty and sophistication they are under par in comparison to those that can be found in Tsar, Barsky, and Decadence . These days the most beautiful women are in Tsar, Barsky, and Decadence.

The Double Coffee on Maidan is also a pick-up center. But again quality is pretty low.


[QUOTE=Rob Hay]Newbie to Kiev looking for a reliable guide for my upcoming trip. For meeting locals girls on the street/setting up dates/agency girls ect...

I do not speak Russian so may have a bit of a difficult time getting around or is using a guide just unnecessary? Do you guys typically stay in the apartments or hotel. Any recommendations would be appreciated[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Hedonist]Kaif has been closed very long time ago. Which is sad, it was an OK club and girls were very approachable there. For easy girls try Radio Hall (on Naberazhnoe Shosse) or Avalon (the disco in the Avalon entertainment complex is called Azhure). Girls in this segment of clubs are easily approachable, many are students, but in terms of beauty and sophistication they are under par in comparison to those that can be found in Tsar, Barsky, and Decadence . These days the most beautiful women are in Tsar, Barsky, and Decadence.

The Double Coffee on Maidan is also a pick-up center. But again quality is pretty low.[/QUOTE]


You will find the Mystery Tramp there too... if little bit drunk some of the best BBBJ you can imagine (CIM included and maybe swallowing), if not drunk onlu BJ; but be aware of your wallet!!!

IT

LS,

Am a newbie in Kyiv but just saw your post and had a few questions if you do not mind. Very experienced in the FSU but never made it to Ukraine so first trip here.

Am heading into the city on the 24th or 25th and back out in 2-3 days so not much time. Would love to sample some of the local ladies but doubt that I have time to go chasing non-working ladies. Suggestions?

Also, for anyone. This is a fast business trip and the company is footing the bill. Any ideas on a nice hotel in the city? Everyone says apartments are the way to go, but the company will not pay for an apartment, only hotels. Need something descent and did not find any chains that I am familiar with while searching on the internet. Its Christmas so know that the cost will not be cheap but they will pay for it within reason.

TIA,

FT

[QUOTE=LifeSavour]

Ladies that will attend a private cocktail party. These are not p4p. But, I think any of you fawkers would love at least one!

At the very least it will be fun! Who is around in the next 2 weeks or so before the actual 31st?

We would make it a late/early evening affair and if ya scored you have the night. If ya don't. 'you have the night' to go elsewhere.

And the biggest plus! You get to meet the 'nicest guy' in kyiv!

Ls guy

(do you remember me? ) You were at my birthday for drinks in small bar on Basenya. Elvira?

So, when I moved here in 2003, you could hardly walk K street without meeting, talking, scoring. My 1st experience was around 10: 30pm on a Monday and saw 2 young ones. Stepped into the cafe, 1 pivo and 2 juices later we were on the way to the flat with the promise of some shopping. They were sisters and I had no reason to doubt. The younger (PLAYBOY) material wouldn't do much with me, but I did end up having these 2 for several outings over the next 2 motnhs until I moved in with Elena.

Point is, those days are indeed gone. Hell, I can't even get a 'Queen' to stop now in center. But since I live here, and am on the public transport everyday. I am always adding to my database!

Unless you are willing to spend big $$ on the 3 day stop over, 'times will be TUFF'!

It's always about MONEY!

Would love to see you next time you are here. Your 1 guy I met that actually seemed NORMAL! (Irish Lad has my email)

LS Guy in Winter Wonderland[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Kiev1]I took girl from escort agency last night for 8 hours! I made video of some of it, the girl in question 19 yrs, pretty face and really enjoys the sex, best escort for GFE sex I've been with, showing it too Ricky Zaperato who I met up with today who posts on this forum. Have also other pics which I will upload when I get home in about one weeks time.[/QUOTE]Know that phone numbers cannot be posted but how about names of agencies? Price?

TIA,

FT

First off the easy questions…Flatwinn there is a Hyatt and a Radission in Kiev either will suit your needs both have been built within the last 4 years (the Hyatt was finished last year). If you are looking for a sure thing River Palace is the place to head for p4p girls – don’t pay more then $150 for 1-2 hours or $300 for a ‘night’. 20-30 uah (local currency) to RP from the center and 30-50uah back to your place with a girl for the taxi. Keep walking all the way to the curb to find a taxi who will give you a decent price.

Hecker, what I had said was that I was meeting 50 girls – not 50 girls from the internet. 20 I already know and 30 from online. Between the girls I know, the internet girls and girls I meet in clubs, restaurants, shopping, on the street and networking I probably ended up dating around 50-55 girls.

How many girls did I have sex with, between 20-25 (if you count BJ's - while Bill Clinton doesn't, I do), three were p4p, 60% were repeaters and 40% were new.

How much I spend on a date depends on what time of the day it is. I usually try to arrange my dates around lunch and dinner or meet just for a drink. Anywhere from $5-$200. The upper scale is usually when I am with more then one girl – I love going out on a date with two girls (when it’s sincere). I do it both in the US and in Kiev. You guys should try it sometime.

I don’t know if I mentioned it here specifically but I espouse it all the time – clubs are the worst place to meet a girl. Unless you’re only goal is to get her drunk and fuck her. Then of course it’s really the only place to go. That’s a game I don’t play, that in my eyes is what p4p is for, no fuss, no muss, and no hang over.

I have no idea why you want to know all that. Our styles are so dissimilar it’s really nothing that will ever help you. Not that I understand how I did during my last trip to Kiev would help you anyway. I think you are the one (oh sorry, it was Life) who said it’s now impossible to pick girls up on the street or in the metro. I don’t know how it’s possible not to pick up a girl on the street or in the metro in Kiev, assuming you can both understand each other. Sometimes that isn’t even important. I was standing on the balcony of my apartment overlooking Bessarabska, just chillin and enjoying the late Kiev afternoon (it was May). I saw this super hot looking girl walking on the sidewalk down below. I was just had to meet this girl and I did! I found her sitting a little further down the street on a park bench, sat next to her, engaged her in conversation and we ended up dating for the rest of that trip. The kicker was she spoke about zero English but said she understood everything I said.

Do you want to hear about the time I picked up a Moscow girl in a Kiev strip club using the bluetooth on my mobile?

Oh and I was in Kiev for 15 days, not two weeks. That last day makes all the difference. ;)

Brandon88 asked me last time I was in Kiev why I never write more about my sexual antics in Kiev. I told him to me it's boring, I've already done it. I personally don't find writing about it all that interesting to me. I'd rather talk about taxi's.




[QUOTE=Hecker]And CruiserD did not tell us what happened to him during the two week stay in Kiev. He wrote he had 50 internet contacts to meet. The questions are:

1. How many of them did he actually meet
2. How many of the ones he met did he bang
3. How much money he spent on average date
4. How fruitfull was the hunting in clubs where some people here claim that 50% of the girls are available.

I call the above real information and of value for the monger.[/QUOTE]


Ash, I’m not in Kiev right now but will be back in about a week for at least two months. I doubt I would ever live in Kiev full time. Boston, Geneva and Marbella are on my short list.

Being a cabby in NYC is what makes all this free time possible. Besides, there is an international brotherhood of cabbies. I lease my cab to a Ukrainian who drives my cab in NYC while I drive his in Kiev. I leave my cab at JFK and he leaves his at Borispil.

The non p4p (like p4p) girls have too many options now. Too many foreign professionals and well off Ukrainian/Russians. Even for the club sluts it comes down to, do I want to fuck a guy who comes for a weekend trip from London (how cliché :) ) or someone who is part of the scene. Club cliques are all about face time.

How you want to approach things all depends on what you are looking for.

[QUOTE=Ash1001]Cruiser, do you actually live in Kiev these days or just make long trips there? How long do you stay on average? I assume it's weeks rather than days, based on the number of girls you date.

And - are you still doing the NYC cabbing job, or are you more or less retired from that now?

For the past couple of years I've been making weekend trips from London every couple of months or so; basically turning up with no contact info and talking to any girl in the street or in clubs who'll give me the time of day.

Initially this worked really well - particularly at 112, from where I would either take them home on the night or kiss them etc. and meet for a date the next day. On a subsequent visits I could either see them again or find someone new. I thought the week end formula was done and dusted.

But it's got a lot tougher recently and I've been doing progressively worse :( I really now think spending the time on lead generation, dating and generally building momentum over a period of time is critical. Do you agree?[/QUOTE]

IT, you used and abused MT so she stole from you, big surprise. You are lucky she didn’t cut your penis off. I’m surprised they let her in Decadance, but then again she is a world class ho and probably a good tipper (security, barmen).

Pbear, there are no tochka’s in Kiev but there are streetwalkers – YMMV.


Hedo, you don’t need 50-100 beautiful girls. At most you need one – me, I need 2-3. :). One shouldn’t confine themselves to pseudo elitist clubs because they have to be surrounded by beautiful women they will never approach or talk to.

Afterclub hot spots – Double Coffee, Yakitoria et al are great places to approach girls when they are already all loosened up. As Cruiser D has noted before, clubs are actually the worst spot to meet a girl. Anyone but 109 (who I just know I Will have a great time with) will have a hard time convincing my to go to Decadance again, unless I want to mess with the high end p4p girls and sugar babies – which I actually do like to do. I chewed through girls like that in my teens and 20’s in NYC and Miami. In Kiev it’s just amusing, but sometimes being amused is all I need. :)

[QUOTE=Hedonist]Kaif has been closed very long time ago. Which is sad, it was an OK club and girls were very approachable there. For easy girls try Radio Hall (on Naberazhnoe Shosse) or Avalon (the disco in the Avalon entertainment complex is called Azhure). Girls in this segment of clubs are easily approachable, many are students, but in terms of beauty and sophistication they are under par in comparison to those that can be found in Tsar, Barsky, and Decadence . These days the most beautiful women are in Tsar, Barsky, and Decadence.

The Double Coffee on Maidan is also a pick-up center. But again quality is pretty low.[/QUOTE]

Kiev1, if you had RTFF you could have avoided your noob experience at RP. What you posted has already been covered a few dozen times.

Here's to Banker and Traveling Male, two fellow members who will be missed in Cruiser D's Kyiv Winter Wonderland Tour 2008. For you the 2008 tour is dedicated.

I paid MT every penny she wanted and now she is writing on flirt telling me her brother wants to take my ass... Ah Ah Ah she is crazy... or the brother is gay! :(

She wanted wine, I took it, she wanted cheese ok, she wanted the waiter dress OK, she wanted $$$ ok... she wanted copies of pics she now uses on her profile ok... she knows I'm posting all and... got at least five fucks from my giving out her number. I owe money from her (not from Ikra) ;)

In Moscow Valentina is not happy to be photographed, she is to shy, but she knows what's going on so now she nearly stopped to put ads on intimcity and she never got to clubs, now she have fixed unrisky customers three-four a week. Meeting for a dinner, a nice night of sex, a good moring nailing, brakfast an all for 300 $ in Moscow... and she is not buying stupid things like MT, just inventing, wants to buy a small shop with her sister... (not lingerie or so, you know the road shop selling drinks, beer cigrettes so popular in Russia) in the city of Kursk...

When staying with me she registers at hotel, and when I book a send a photocopy of her passports, no bribes, no problems, more clever girl... I know I can even leave the money on the table (only with her or her sister Ludimilla.

By the way now she is not depending on bar clubs or risky unknown... just fixed ones (one is me everytime in Moscow at least once, sometimes two days). And she is not bribing anybody except some small money to police because of her irregular residence, so she is happy when registered in hotel with "friends". Police cant fine her!

IT

PS Two girls, two way of life, one will finish perhaps in a good way one surely bad. Guess who!

[QUOTE=It Travel]I paid MT every penny she wanted and now she is writing on flirt telling me her brother wants to take my ass... Ah Ah Ah she is crazy... or the brother is gay! :(
[/QUOTE]
She's just bitter and cold-hearted. That's what happens to hos who stay in the game too long.

She's fucked 1000s of guys. She's blown most of her earned money on pimp boyfriends, drugs or pure stupidity. They know her by first name at the health clinic where she gets her "malinki problem" taken care of every 3 weeks. She's heard a thousand promises and probably even naively believed the first 100.

Cruiser's right, you should be happy it was only your ikra and not your cock she took.

We mustn't ever forget that a ho is a ho is a ho.

I really don't see the point of seeing a ho more than once. I've seen one or two twice, but that's it. After that they are like girlfriends except you have to pay them for sex, and who needs that?

Hey IT Travel,

Are you joking with MT? We know she is your favourite and so it sounds a bit strange that you are angry with her. It seems a marketing strategy. .

Anyway, I remember my experience (about Alessia too):

1. It is possible but very low probable that a prostitute can be or become a friend too, it is a border of female mindset "if you are a customer then you are not a man for me", prostitutes always say the opposite just to keep customers;

2. Do you indeed think MT won't have a good future? I knew a girl similar to MT and now she lives together a rich man. And in the future I think she will change other rich men and she always will have a better life than the average people. .

I think this is the end of all longtime prostitutes. I see when a girl works as a prostitute for more a year, she becomes another person and she changes her behaviour in bad.

CruiserD,

If you banged 20 freebies in 15 days, we have to bow.

[quote=cruiser d]first off the easy questions…flatwinn there is a hyatt and a radission in kiev either will suit your needs both have been built within the last 4 years (the hyatt was finished last year).

if you are looking for a sure thing river palace is the place to head for p4p girls – don’t pay more then $150 for 1-2 hours or $300 for a ‘night’. 20-30 uah (local currency) to rp from the center and 30-50uah back to your place with a girl for the taxi. keep walking all the way to the curb to find a taxi who will give you a decent price. [/quote]cruiser,

thanks for the info. based on earlier reports i contacted alex, the guide mentioned a couple of pages back and he is helping us with everything. should know today if we are going to use the hotels or not. he is trying to get us to use the apartments (we need 3 rooms or flats) as the quality is supposedly better and price 1/2 what a hotel costs there. we just need descent places to stay, secure, near restaurants and high speed internet, so are open to the apartments if they can provide this.

was planning on either going to rp or have emailed with gia and vodka and all sure seem to have some very nice ladies. vodka seems to be better.

problem is that we have at most 48 hours in town then heading back out, so not a lot of time. am using this as a chance to explore the town and will try to get back when i have some time off.

thx,

ft

[QUOTE=Hecker]I disagree that 50% of girls in clubs are available. If it were so, all short time travellers to Kiev would score freebies and this does not happen. Actually it does not happen anymore since 2004. When I go to a club I hit on every hottie, so I know how high the actual chances are. I saw seldom foreigners pull girls in clubs. And looks do matter in Ukraine. You will see seldom an ugly man with a beautiful girl as it often happens in the West or in other countries like Czech Republic.

The perspective is different whether you live there or come for a short time let's say 2-3 times a year for a week. In the latter case things do not work the same way. Basically what really happens in Kiev is a number game from internet contacts. I will give an idea. Everday there are over 500 girls online in Kiev region, sometimes even more. If you send messages to some of them, let's say hot girls comprise 20% of them, you will send 100 messages. Of them 10% minimum that is 10 girls will respond. Of the 10 girls you will easily manage to get 1-2 phone numbers after 5-10 messages. You can meet these girls the same day. Of the girls you meet, 30-50% will fuck. So you can get a new girl everyday supposed you spend 2-3 hours the day in internet. This is how it works but it works for the men who stay in Kiev. Because if you are short time traveller you cannot meet the girls the same day and have to eliminate many contacts, what you foresee will not give quick results. You cannot wait. So the perspective vanishes and then you get a situation where things become more complex and you need to go out and pick up in street as well. You need to pick up in street because it will be likely that you have eliminated the wrong contacts or conditions have changed by the time you come, or girls have are outside Kiev by the time you come or they do not trust you cause you are short time traveller or the girls do not look as in photos and you have selected them based on photos etc, etc. These are problems that sb who stays in Kiev or stays more than 10 days does not face. Cause he can select, wait, choose, eliminate, do right logistics, get more than 2 dates with the same girl and a lot more things than the short time traveller. Sorry I posted this in photo section. [/QUOTE]

Hey guys, I moved this from the photo section, I just wanted to ask some of you about this post.

I have a friend who goes to Kiev and Odessa to meet women. He is in his mid to late fifties in great shape(I know him from the gym) not tall or very handsome. But anyway he swears to me that he meets girls in their twenties in Kiev and Odessa and they don’t charge him. Now I think he is a liar but I can’t prove it of course because I have never been there. I do monger mostly in Brazil so I know what girls in their twenties are mostly looking for from guys in their fifties. So what do you think is he a liar? His trips last about a week at a time.

Sangue Bon,

From my perspective, as one who is successful with most ages of local women, despite the fact that I am almost as advanced as your friend, the truth lies solely in the answer to one question.

Does he or does he not speak Russian and it must be real good Russian.

If his language skills are basic or poor, then his chances of freebies are almost zero. Then money is the only language he can truly successfully use.

If his Russian is real good, he has an excellent chance at freebies.

I know and life is good here.

[quote=sangue bon]hey guys, i moved this from the photo section, i just wanted to ask some of you about this post.

i have a friend who goes to kiev and odessa to meet women. he is in his mid to late fifties in great shape(i know him from the gym) not tall or very handsome. but anyway he swears to me that he meets girls in their twenties in kiev and odessa and they don’t charge him. now i think he is a liar but i can’t prove it of course because i have never been there. i do monger mostly in brazil so i know what girls in their twenties are mostly looking for from guys in their fifties. so what do you think is he a liar? his trips last about a week at a time.[/quote]

i agree with uke boy that it is unlikely that he could score regularly going in cold (no previous contact with the girls) and only speaking english (limiting ability to communicate effectively with a lot of girls), however nothing is impossible.

i think equally important are questions like:
* what kind of girl/how'd she look?
* how many times did he date them before scoring?
* what other things besides cash were in the package?
* how often did he actually score (fuck the chick)?
* what are his social skills/success like back home?

55+ year old guys with 20ish girls isn't an uncommon sight in ee, but usually there is some sort of "support" involved in the mix when ages differ so greatly.

his being in great shape certainly helps set him apart from others his age, but it seems unlikely he was scoring regularly. more likely he goes out every night for a week, dates 5-6 girls about 3 times each and end up banging one bland looking but nice 26-year old. that rather unimpressive story quickly becomes "i'm screwing all these 20-year old hotties in ukraine" when he starts talking about it back home. probably also a question of what he considers attractive. i've also seen a lot of pictures of people's "hot ukrainian girlfriend" and i guess beauty is relative and subjective or something, as i've rarely been overly impressed with the kind of fish they've been reeling in. perhaps they are saying the same thing about my girls. different strokes fer different folks.

still, it is possible even if it is likely that he is exaggerating. i've seen stranger things, some guys just have "it" and do very well with girls.

age differences are a factor in dating for sure, in ee as well as the rest of the world. nonetheless, there is less negative stigma attached to it in ee as for example in the us where girls don't like to date outside of their peer group, especially when they are young. many ee girls even prefer dating guys older than them for various reasons, including but not limited to the fact that older guys have more money than the local young guys. more and more however as younger ee guys get more money at an earlier age, ee girls are looking for guys more their age.

fighting the trend isn't that difficult though, especially if you can offer the girls something besides money... specifically entertainment, experience, adventure, great sex and romantic affection. they lap it up. apparently those are areas where foreign guys still offer more than most locals who seemingly quite often don't appreciate their women as much as we do.

[QUOTE=Hedonist]If you are a "white" Turk you actually would have an edge over "Westerners" here in Kiev. Stereotypically, Ukrainian girls perceive "Westerners", especially Americans, as boring, superficial, and weak (because they are too civilized for Ukrainian girls). Both Turks and Ukrainians are not European and they tend to click quite well culturally. Same goes for Greeks and Italians. However, the Turks who crowd the River Palace are the middle eastern types (think Grand Bazaar carpet sellers) and it is clear that girls prefer "Westerners" over these types. In the final analysis, who you are and how you present yourself has much more weight than your passport, especially for girls who just look for fun.[/QUOTE]It's Hedonist is right, wow, what an observation! Having been to both Kiev and Istanbul, it seems to make a good sense to me.

Guy's thanks for your great responses. Now that you've jogged my memory somewhat, I remember a few other facts about him:

I think equally important are questions like:
* what kind of girl/how'd she look? [RED] Yes this is a good question, he never offered any pictures but recently he was planning to go to Rio and he was setting up some girls to meet from the internet and he told me one just sent him a picture, I asked if I could see it and he said NO.[/RED]
* how many times did he date them before scoring?[RED] Besides ones that he had met that night in a bar or something, looks like he was finding them on the internet first and he does not speak Russian. He even told me some girls lived hours away and he flew them in to meet him. But he did not pay them for their time but I guess he did shell out a lot of money to get them there and feed them.[/RED]
* what other things besides cash were in the package? [RED] In some cases he did mention gifts for the girls children or milk money LOL [/RED]
* how often did he actually score? [RED] He doesn't tell me about his misses only his hits[/RED]
* his social skills/success back home? [RED] He's a mover and a shaker in the gym, women like to be talked to and he is a good talker.[/RED]

If he spends great amounts of money for sponsoring, everything is possible especially if he has local contacts. If not, then he most probably dates young but average looking girls.

[QUOTE=Acolonizer]Hey IT Travel,

Are you joking with MT? We know she is your favourite and so it sounds a bit strange that you are angry with her. It seems a marketing strategy. .

Anyway, I remember my experience (about Alessia too):

1. It is possible but very low probable that a prostitute can be or become a friend too, it is a border of female mindset "if you are a customer then you are not a man for me", prostitutes always say the opposite just to keep customers;

2. Do you indeed think MT won't have a good future? I knew a girl similar to MT and now she lives together a rich man. And in the future I think she will change other rich men and she always will have a better life than the average people. .

I think this is the end of all longtime prostitutes. I see when a girl works as a prostitute for more a year, she becomes another person and she changes her behaviour in bad.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for delay in answering, but I have to work too… not just fucking!

The problem with MT is very simple (apart stealing my Ikra)… she is very good at sex when a little drunk (let’s say a bottle of Chianti and no meal for a girl of 45 kgs!)…
Her BBBJ with CIM or COF is still nearly the state of the art (but L_olita is far better), but’s all she is is just a sex toy! And she is one of the few skinny girls (I mean well under 50 kg) I found where a guy like me, tall and around 100 kg can do real heavy sex!

Before she did anal too, now she just got the little condomed plug… and did not want more!

She can’t behave in any way sometime is arrogant or shy (depends on vodka) and is just like a spoiled 14teen… She puts all her money on stupid things like clothes fake jewels telephones (she had three!) etc etc.

If you marry a such girl you will be out of money in some months. She wants to marry a Businessman :(

My Moscow friend Valentina (and her older sister Ludmilla) are instead saving money (as I told before), in their broken English they even asked me some tips for investments. They are nearly gone from internet now, they just work on safe regular customers in hotel, nearly only all nighter. No pimps and safe (as I feel safe with them, have copy of passports…). They want to get up to 50.000 or so and they are nearly there, get back to Kursk and buy a drink/tobacco/produkty small shop to run together… They are not dreaming on a marriage (Valentina already once, Ludmilla twice). They just want to run their shop and rise up the children (they have four)

The same with L. her behaviour is that of a Lady… I’ll never go to a restaurant with MT, but I did (yeah a bar) with L. and still do with Valentina (usually we go for sushi or shahlik it depends), and I go shopping with Ludmilla.

MT do not understand that if she would be more gentle and nice with the sex she is able to do she could make 100,000 of $$ and really find a Businessman, but she is always dressed as a who**, and behave like a who**, other girls are really more normal. By the way she is now too old, I think something like 26 or 27 even if she says 24

If I do not remember wrong I red that you wanted to marry her… no problem, just ask, if you have some money she will do it, she dreams about that. It’s that the reason perhaps she was so angry about the pics now she wants a reputation, before she wanted customers, and we all know that among the readers here for sure at least 15 have fucked her! I took her 4 or 5 times in 2004-2007 and this will be last (on ground of Ikra!). In any case if I call her she will not come. A pity because when a little bit drunk at 2 am (after several sessions) you get to bed and she start her BBBJ like a vacuum cleaner with her long hair on your body… wow it’s nice!

Exactly as fucking her handcuffed and COF at the end (a pity no titfuck of course!)

I hope I answered you…

Enjoy my (my opinion) best pics of MT (by the way she uses some in her page… [url]http://flirt.com.ua/sweetmail-a5346/[/url])

My captions
01 Just arrived… as a who** as usual!

02 Already handcuffed and in sexy waiter dress, playing on the table we just started the second bottle!

03 From table to sofa… she is lathing because she see me naked, condom already on, I just take down her pants for a nice (weird) session on the sofa…

04 In the bedroom, she like posing that you do not see much of her face but you see the bush (one of the reasons I liked her I just like trimmed not shaved girls)

05 Her best view (****!)

06 Ready to please… one of the best positions and way to fuck (in both holes) a girl, unfortunately no anal, but a nice COF

07 Later in the night, no waiter costume, but still handcuffed and facialized (she was not so enthusiast of being photographed with cream on face but…)

08 Going to the bath a wonderful body… (skinny I love other types too :D)

[QUOTE=Hecker]If he spends great amounts of money for sponsoring, everything is possible especially if he has local contacts. If not, then he most probably dates young but average looking girls.[/QUOTE]Average looking girls.

As a German, and in similar age as the special guy you are discussing here, I totally have to agree to the opinion stated here.

However, because I am not spending great amounts of money, I have to date average looking girls, too.

BUT: "Average" to the standards I am used to see here in UA.

And this "average" is far above what I see in Germany or in the USA (besides Hollywood).

So I am quite happy with this situation, and probably, this special guy, too.

Besides that, I sponsored one special girl from UA for a long time. In the beginning, her "looks were below average". (But I really liked her).

After a few months, with reasonable foodstuff, better clothes, hairdresser, cosmetics, stable and solid lifestyle etc. she was "well above average".

Even the locals now started to be really interested in her.

The girls here in UA or in Russia can make quite a lot out of themselves with some "investments".

And the regular monthly investments can be just a few hundreds of $, in case we are not talking about Kiev.

8 days 7 nights

Day one and two.

Two nights with Valeria (21, 160 and 45 or so) and Oksana (23, 165 and 50 English speaking) a nice semi lesbian couple, nothing exceptional, but good, nice, well educated and stunningly cheap 300 USD + dinner for both. Got them from Hecker, unfortunately they did not do all…

The best was surely when Valeria was laying on me, cock inside, kissing, and Oksana was taking care of my balls making a tongue bath to them… got the orgasm without that Valeria moved… Oksana is a nice licker (covered) and Valeria is perfect at cow girl… the first evening she come with dying hot pants and white boots, sometimes I really like when whor** are dressed like who***!

Both have very very nice bodies and 5-6 rated faces, but Valeria (a brunette) is really getting you hard!

Total damage for Valeria and Oksana:
Two nights at 300 $ each (for both!)
Two Cialis ;) at 20 $ each
Two dinner for three at approx 400 Grivnas each (one sushi and one BBQ style)

Day Three and Four
Two nights and two days with Inga (she just went home for taking some dresses and for a university lesson). I got in touch via flirt… simply a pig, just filled 20 now. Cow girl with an anal vibrator! And to Arena (meeting a friend he will laugh here and answer if he wants) plugged (anally!).

Nice girl, always wet and horny… loving to be tooled in any hole!

She was doing everything and wanted to be portrayed too! (I will post more pics in Anal section!). Still nice and naive and rock hard tits! Unfortunately she got her period at the end of the second day! :(

Total damage for Inga:
A perfume at 40 €
Two days and niche with cum swallowing :D at 400 USD each.
Two Cialis at 20 $ each
Jacuzzi salts for 250 Grivnas
We ate home, because her friends in the university do not know, and the pics on her page on flirt are not real…

Day Five

Miss U.

She is still nice and a good fuck (ask the friend who I hope will answer)… a little bit strange. But soft and willing and always joking and laughing! But it’s she that fucks you… the body is for heavy duty! (Anal too)

Total damage
She loves Cavalli, as all UA girls, so on Sales I buy lots of things in Italy ;), a nice bag 80 €
A nice romantic dinner 500 Grivnas (really good!)
I jumped over Cialis (one every 24 hours is too much! I started to get some muscle pain)

Day Six

Met Ira at Mandarin around noon, at midnight she was on the bed, two pillows under her popka and I was making a nice **** tasting… real pink (like Valentina!). She is a real beauty (you can se the pics), just normal sex including all, really tight in both holes! And she did also BBBJ with CIM and… swallowed too! I think I could fell in love with her. She missed my friend at Arena (in the afternoon) for 10 minutes… now he can see the pics!
The best GFE up to today (apart one in the old Russia around 1992-3 where I did two sisters for a couple of days for 200 USD for two, two days! One 18 the other 20… mhhh unfortunately no digital!).

Total Damage
A present (Cavalli bag) 80 €
Cialis 20 $
Drinks at Arena (twice) 150 Grivnas
Home dining with Ikra and Salmon 150 USD

Day Seven

Ira had to go otherwise…. Inga was in period, and the two pigs where busy… so phoned the MT she said 200 for two hours… and I said you are crazy. I said I had nice food and wine… and wanted her all the night…. So at the end if I gave a copy of nice pics on a USB key (5€) she would have been there for 300 $ at 9 pm OK I said I left at 8 the time for a nice Jacuzzi… Then she phoned and said will come at 11 pm (she surely got a qwikie…) but ok… She phoned at 11.05 say she was out of the door! OK
Nice food, nice photos nice sex… the two best moments was surely the heavy fucking handcuffed in the bed (see the pics) with final COF, and a real good BBBJ (she was really a little bit drunk) with CIM, I think she swallowed, because she did not even go to the toiled, an the bed was dry! But when the pig got out of being drunk… stole my Ikra!

Total Damage
300 $ from 11 pm to 10 am
Cialis 20 $
Waiter dress 60 € at Beate Uhse
Some food from the fridge
AND 500 grams OF BELUGA! Approx 400 €!!! :(

So these where my days in Kiev, I met also other girls (at bars making rests) but these where the fucked ones…

Of course Flight/Transportation/Home is not included it depends on your standard…

Total Damage for an unforgettable week… 2.800 USD including drinks and a full stocked fridge… Did not count but…
Valeria (2 holes, no Anal)
Oksana (2 holes no Anal)
Inga (3 holes including BBBJ)
Miss U. (2 holes, she do not even BJ)
Ira (same as Inga all round)
MT (2 holes, including BBBJ, wanted to try a plug but she said next time….)

Surely at least 30-35 shots…

My dick looked really happy and soft! Soon I’ll leave for Moldova so….

[QUOTE=Sangue Bon]

Now I remember a fact:

He did mention gifts for the girls children.

[/QUOTE]

As has been said a billion times, we all have different tastes. Plenty of mongers are perfectly happy, and even prefer, boning single mothers. They are certainly more interested in meeting a potential husband, and more financially desperate than university students, because of the situation they have found themselves in. Most mongers probably agree that on the bitchiness factor, they tend to be less so than younger females, and are usually more sexually open and more grateful.

There will always be a large supply of them ready and willing, from internet dating sites.

For those of us completely addicted to pre-pregnancy boobs, we have very little interest in divorced moms. Sure there are many MILF's I would hump in a moments notice, but those are much more likely to still be married and not dumped, because they are the hot looking ones.

Then again, with so many dyevushkas available that are not mamas, there's really no need to deviate from the formula that works for Bez, hehe.

Hey, IT Travel, great reports, thanks! I see you take Chianti wine to Kiev. Next time, take a prosecco of Valdobbiadene, too

Just a question, what was your appearance and your behaviour, for example, with Oksana and Valeria? I mean, why is there usually a big, big, big difference in services and prices offered by girls to several customers? I mean, why does a young, shaped, good-mannered, well-informed man have to listen or to read things like "300$/2 hours or nothing" when he knows 300$ is all sex for 24 hours?

[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]As has been said a billion times, we all have different tastes. Plenty of mongers are perfectly happy, and even prefer, boning single mothers. They are certainly more interested in meeting a potential husband, and more financially desperate than university students, because of the situation they have found themselves in. Most mongers probably agree that on the bitchiness factor, they tend to be less so than younger females, and are usually more sexually open and more grateful.

There will always be a large supply of them ready and willing, from internet dating sites.

For those of us completely addicted to pre-pregnancy boobs, we have very little interest in divorced moms. Sure there are many MILF's I would hump in a moments notice, but those are much more likely to still be married and not dumped, because they are the hot looking ones.

Then again, with so many dyevushkas available that are not mamas, there's really no need to deviate from the formula that works for Bez, hehe.[/QUOTE]

I can relate....

The ONE I did end up bangin was a Single Mom, but not a MILF by any measure. Very AVERAGE (think 5), and the sex was limited (parnoid).

But I rather have mid to late 20's than early 20's to late teens, experiences is a great teacher, especially when it comes to sex and mid 20's is it just before everything starts to go down hill, at least I can enjoy it for the whole run (about 30 years) instead of being half way over (mid to late 30's) and EE girls are comfortable with the mild age difference especially since I still look mid 20's.

I am still talking to a Siberian girl I started talking too before my trip, she just sent me a text wishing me Happy New Year.... She's 25, not a looker, but not ugly either. I think I can upgrade a bit, so I am still looking.

It was super cheap to fly to Kiev about a month ago when I looked and yes I know its cold, but for 500 clams roundtrip??? It might have been worth going and I can see why Cruiser is going on a Winter Tour.... :)

[QUOTE=Acolonizer]Hey, IT Travel, great reports, thanks! I see you take Chianti wine to Kiev. Next time, take a prosecco of Valdobbiadene, too

Just a question, what was your appearance and your behaviour, for example, with Oksana and Valeria? I mean, why is there usually a big, big, big difference in services and prices offered by girls to several customers? I mean, why does a young, shaped, good-mannered, well-informed man have to listen or to read things like "300$/2 hours or nothing" when he knows 300$ is all sex for 24 hours?[/QUOTE]

If you just have a lot of free allowance on your plane (due to Business or Silver or Gold cards) it's OK. Otherwise in the supermarket at -1 floor of Mandarin Plaza 24/24, but in the night access from the Parking inside... ask eventually at Arena Security you find everything.

Of course a little bit overpriced , but approx 30% of food stocking is Italian. You find even sophisticated items like a DOCG Chianti or a Carnaroli rice or whatever you want, only the way of cutting the meat (as in all EE) is very poor, best to buy sharp knifes and pieces!

The overpricing (food) in comparison to an Italian Supermaket is 30-50%, more for wine due taxes on alchool (the we do not have on wine in Italy)... the Checchi Chianti was something around 90-100 Grivnas, meaning 7-8 €, and you get it for 4.50 in Italy... just my two cents on Shopping in Kiev... (not only Pussy!)

IT

First day in Kiev, last night was a total wash. I got in at 1530 and there was zero lines and traffic. The flight from the US to KBP was just about perfect. The cabbies, which there were very few of at Borispil wanted 300uah to Majdan, after I got done laughing I talked them down to 150uah (100-120 is usually a good price but it was NYE). Had some minor problems with my apartment and didn't get settled till 1930. Jet lag started catching up with me at that point so I called the two dyevushka's I had lined up for the night and told them I was too tired to meet - I had warned them that might happen.

I also got an sms that night from my #1 girl saying she was headed off to Switzerland on Jan 1st for 'work'. :| Oksana is smokin' hot but unfortunate for her every year a little more of her soul seems to get chipped away (I met her in 2005). And as usual there is a good percentage of girls that I know off in the villages with their families for the Holidays. I'll spend most of this day finding out which of the 300 or so Ukrainian girls I know are still active and organizing the next 5 days of dating (3x/day).

I woke up this morning saying to myself, why aren't I in South Beach for two months instead of Kiev. I'm sure Kiev in the winter will do my soul well. It's amazing how polished the center is becoming. Enclosed ATM's, lots of signs in English. It's nice to get away from American culture for a while. It's too bad Kiev is catching up with Western Europe in being 'Americanized'. :P :)

IT, sounds like a lot of money and effort for 2nd stringers..but as long as you are happy. No place in the world even comes close to food, food products or preparation to Italy or France. Furchette, the 24/7 supermarket in Mandarin Plaza is a good place to go shopping, however their produce is generally very poor.

Any American's in Kiev interested in watching the NFL playoff series?

[quote=acolonizer]hey, it travel, great reports, thanks! i see you take chianti wine to kiev. next time, take a prosecco of valdobbiadene, too

just a question, what was your appearance and your behaviour, for example, with oksana and valeria? i mean, why is there usually a big, big, big difference in services and prices offered by girls to several customers? i mean, why does a young, shaped, good-mannered, well-informed man have to listen or to read things like "300$/2 hours or nothing" when he knows 300$ is all sex for 24 hours?[/quote]because i had arranged the situation for it before he came. i fixed the price to 300$. when i was in kiev i had three girls, these two plus valia, a friend of them who did excellent kissing and better bj than oksana, all of them for 200 euro per day. they told me i could have them the next days with only 100 euro per day for all of them.

basically you need to know how o talk to girls in case they are not pros but regular girls who do it from time to time while having boyfriend etc.
you tell them for example the rate in rp is 200$ for the whole night for a girl, so i suppose i have to pay less for you cause if you do not agree i will call a girl from rp. these girls do not know the actual cost of an rp girl and what she does, so you get a better agreement soon. there are a lot of tricks.

i had agreed with them to do everything it wanted like bbbj, anal dildo, swallowing etc but i do not know why it failed to persuade them to keep the agreement. i had done heavy stuff with them the two times i had met them.

i also was very reluctant to pay for them to eat something as well. anyway i went to produkti with them and they bought some food and drinks with a total cost of 20$. they cooked and i ate from that as well. so i regard spending 400 grivnia on a meal for two of them as a huge exaggeration which seems to spoil them for future adventures. why you italians have always to spoil girls like that?
presents, meals, extras. it is weakness. i never buy presents before i come and i buy only for freebies when they promise sex afterwards or when they are very stunning and you want to speed things. i think you are in a wrong frame of mind.

anyway i saw that expenses for accomodation are getting higher and higher in kiev, so next time i will be there i have arranged to stay in a girl's home for free. so i will avoid this cost. i also intend never to go for dinner or lunch with a girl in kiev again, i read a nyc pick up artist who claimed that going to restaurants on first date kills your chances for a quick lay and i have to agree. only bars and cafes from now on and as low costs as possible.

Hello fellow mongers,

First of all HAPPY NEW YEAR to everybody and thanks to all who contribute this forum. Will be back in Kiew next week and not sure how to manage a 24 hours meeting with a not too professional but cute and affordable beauty. Used Vodka escorts last time but prices went up and for my favourites i should pay extra € 200 for transfer to Kiew. I read most of the recent reports and still am not sure what to do. Try at riverplace, sponsored girl (how to find with very limited russian) or use an agency. Any suggestions are highly appreciated, budget for 24 hours meeting is around € 700.

Thanks in advance for your help, regards

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]

I woke up this morning saying to myself, why aren't I in South Beach instead of Kiev.

[/QUOTE]

Bez woke up this morning IN South Beach, wondering why I'm not in my ruski flat, (sorry, location classified), with something to keep me from being bored out of my skull.

Oh yeah, I forgot, Bez don't do winter/snow. Ok, so its sunny here and 24C, but in Bono's own words, nothing changes on New Year's Day.

One minor consolation, my 38D 48kg 19 year old tomboy padruga from last spring in the provinces sent me an 'I love you, can't wait for your return!' sms from her new home in Moscow, to put a little smile on my face, but I'd really rather have her sitting on my face. Guess I'll just have to wait a few months for that to happen, she's promised to ride the train to meet me for another spring fling.

I wouldn't be sitting here twiddling my thumb if I'd just kept this one around, instead of feeling sorry for her and putting her on a plane to go home.

But IT Travel, we are not interested in supermarket but in pussy so those questions are about pussy. Do you like joke?

[QUOTE=Acolonizer]But IT Travel, we are not interested in supermarket but in pussy so those questions are about pussy. Do you like joke?[/QUOTE]


but for 10 kg overweight you can get a pussy so.... :;)))

[quote=hecker]because i had arranged the situation for it before he came. i fixed the price to 300$. when i was in kiev i had three girls, these two plus valia, a friend of them who did excellent kissing and better bj than oksana, all of them for 200 euro per day. they told me i could have them the next days with only 100 euro per day for all of them.

basically you need to know how o talk to girls in case they are not pros but regular girls who do it from time to time while having boyfriend etc.

you tell them for example the rate in rp is 200$ for the whole night for a girl, so i suppose i have to pay less for you cause if you do not agree i will call a girl from rp. these girls do not know the actual cost of an rp girl and what she does, so you get a better agreement soon. there are a lot of tricks.

i had agreed with them to do everything it wanted like bbbj, anal dildo, swallowing etc but i do not know why it felt to persuade them to keep the agreement. i had done heavy stuff with them the two times i had met them.

i also was very reluctant to pay for them to eat something as well. anyway i went to produkti with them and they bought some food and drinks with a total cost of 20$. they cooked and i ate from that as well. so i regard spending 400 grivnia on a meal for two of them as a huge exaggeration which seems to spoil them for future adventures. why you italians have always to spoil girls like that?

presents, meals, extras. it is weakness. i never buy presents before i come and i buy only for freebies when they promise sex afterwards or when they are very stunning and you want to speed things. i think you are in a wrong frame of mind.

anyway i saw that expenses for accomodation are getting higher and higher in kiev, so next time i will be there i have arranged to stay in a girl's home for free. so i will avoid this cost. i also intend never to go for dinner or lunch with a girl in kiev again, i read a nyc pick up artist who claimed that going to restaurants on first date kills your chances for a quick lay and i have to agree. only bars and cafes from now on and as low costs as possible.[/quote]


but... the two pigs where not in bbbj or anal at all... but for 300 for both a good choice... it

[quote=hecker]
presents, meals, extras. it is weakness. i never buy presents before i come and i buy only for freebies when they promise sex afterwards or when they are very stunning and you want to speed things. i think you are in a wrong frame of mind.
[/quote]
exactly. prostitutes aren't your girlfriends, don't spend more than you have to. the only presents i give hoes is cheap but sexy underwear... they always let me take pictures of them in it. not a bad trade for $5 skivvies.

if you are seeing the same pro regularly, you will likely develop a relationship of sorts with her... but for her, it's all business. don't get caught up in fake affection. it'll just cost you.

[quote=hecker]i read a nyc pick up artist who claimed that going to restaurants on first date kills your chances for a quick lay and i have to agree. only bars and cafes from now on and as low costs as possible.[/quote]
it depends on the girl in my opinion. some girls, especially the old-fashioned or milf types, take this token romance as an express train into their pants.

younger girls don't really care much about restaurants and aren't really impressed by that method of courtship or romance... so take them or meet them someplace else, like a sushi cafe or a bar.

The most important thing to find when i go to a new city is a cafe/coffee shop that is target rich and best for pickup. Globus Line 3 was the perfect place in that respect. As a first timer in Kiev i would have to say the high end talent in Kiev is comparable to the talent in Miami or LA but alot more approachable. This city is as good as any for the non pro scene and has pretty decent nightlife. I'm more of a day gamer but at the nightclubs i went to (Barsky and Grotesque) the women far outnumbered the men and it seemed like there was no shortage of models at any club. Also went to Arena but I found this place to be, what we native New Yorkers call, bridge and tunnel.

Unfortuantely I don't have too many good things to say about the P4P scene. I personally found the quality of the girls to be pretty poor. There is a considerable drop off in looks from clubs i mentioned about to River Palace. Most of the girl there I found below the quality of the girls I hook up with in the states. Perhaps its just holiday season and the girls went home, but I was a bit disappointed in the scene. I did however find myself coming back on Sunday drunk, horny as hell and left with the best available talent. IMHO of course.

What is with all the bars closing early on Sundays?? Couldn't find a decent place that was open to finish Redskins/Cowboys game.

Rob, you gotta love NYC in the summer months with the work and travel program and all the Jersey go-go bars:) The number and quality of girls in clubs and on the streets of Kiev is amazing though.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Exactly. Prostitutes aren't your girlfriends, don't spend more than you have to. The only presents I give hoes is cheap but sexy underwear... they always let me take pictures of them in it. Not a bad trade for $5 skivvies.

If you are seeing the same pro regularly, you will likely develop a relationship of sorts with her... but for her, it's all business. don't get caught up in fake affection. It'll just cost you.


It depends on the girl in my opinion. Some girls, especially the old-fashioned or MILF types, take this token romance as an express train into their pants.

Younger girls don't really care much about restaurants and aren't really impressed by that method of courtship or romance... so take them or meet them someplace else, like a sushi cafe or a bar.[/QUOTE]


Ira or Miss U. who got presents are not pro, just normal girls... so what's the problem???

IT

[QUOTE=It Travel]Ira or Miss U. who got presents are not pro, just normal girls... so what's the problem???

IT[/QUOTE]
By the way, you did buy Inga perfume for 40€... very kind of you since you already were paying her $800 for 2 days.

But actually I wasn't refering specifically to you, just to the notion of buying prostitutes presents.

I really don't care what people do with their money and what kind of fantasies they live out with pros. Maybe even pro sex is an avenue to let out pent up affection. My comment is merely stating my opinion that giving presents to pros is generally a waste of money unless it has immediate return value, such as giving a girl underwear to get her in the picture taking mood or other sex-related presents.

What you do with your girls, pro, freebie or otherwise is your business. As for presents for non-pros, I often buy small presents for them. I find that if used at the right moment it is an effective way to convince unsure girls that they should come into the apartment and fuck you.

For longer-term girlfriends, occassionally giving girls presents is just a nice gesture of affection and is appreciated. Giving presents to your girlfriend (or even family and friends) is an integral part of Slavic culture. It doesn't have to be elaborate or expensive, but the gesture is important.

[QUOTE=Rob Hay]What is with all the bars closing early on Sundays?? Couldn't find a decent place that was open to finish Redskins/Cowboys game.[/QUOTE]
Where'd you watch the first part of the game? The only places I know are RP and Arena and RP is the one that stays open the latest AFAIK.

Rob, there are a few sports bars in Kiev that are good to watch NFL games at. But only Arena and River Palace offer both the games and p4p action. The quality and luster of Arena has gone down quite a bit since late 2003 when it opened. The Arena disco attracts a lot of young student and village girls who want to go to the big city disco. And yes, this time of year places do tend to close early on Sunday, if you wanted to watch the game your best bet was to head to River Palace go to the sports bar and have them tune the game in - I think the Dr and I are going to reserve the same table we had last year for the Super Bowl this year. ;) Things are so out of whack in Kiev during the Holiday season it's hard to gauge anything. River Palace can be jammed full of smokin' hot girls one night with a 30% male ratio and then the next night there can be all fuglies and three tour buses worth of Turks.

Bez, pluses for South Beach, the weather, my 40' boat and my apartment on the inter coastal, having a car, two or three hot Russian/Ukrainian girls and the food. Pluses for Kiev, 300 or so hot Ukrainian/Russian girls that I know, almost getting away from the constant bomardment of US culture (and work), sometimes the food. The bottom line is if I want to be in South Beach I would be. But I'm in Kiev right now - Sevastopol in a couple of weeks (the south beach of the Ukraine?) ;)

Doc, Yeah giving an escort (who you are overpaying) a gift I really don't understand. The only present she gets from me is a slap on the ass. I think sometimes people blur the lines between p4p and freebies. I remember some guy in another section saying how much attention the strippers were paying attention to him - stop tipping them and see how much attention they pay to you. ;) With pro's 9 times out of 10 the bottom line, top line and middle line is money. With semi pro's you may get a little love depending on the relationship. But you are right, as long as you like it keep doing it!

For Hecker, Cruiser D's report card in Kiev Dec 31st Zero Jan 1st Date - Date (sex) - Date - Club. Jan 2nd Date (sex) Date (typing this report) Date - stripclub. Oh, I forgot to mention. I don't think my having sex with 20 girls my last time in Kiev was so fantastic - most of the girls I already knew.