Medellin Reports

[QUOTE=HumbleHal;2792427]Disappointment on my last visit. The 8-10 girls had some stunners, and I picked one I felt like and paid the standard charge.

But in the room the girl tried to up charge for kissing, up charge for DATY and upcharge for dick sucking. Is that now the routine? Or just my bad luck in selection. ? I said no to her and got a standard fuck with a rubber. Nothing exciting to make me want to go back there.[/QUOTE]I have always found Loutrons to have the hottest girls of any casa in Medellin except for Abydos which unfortunately is no more and from all accounts was owned by the same person. In all my visits to Loutrons, the last of which I think was 2018, I was never upsold for any services, However, I don't think I ever got BBBJ there inclusive but CBJ was definitely available. I hope this upcharge for kissing and DATY is not a new requirement.

[QUOTE=SdesChain19;2792076]Where exactly in Facebook do you find these girls?[/QUOTE]If they have a facebook account and they look hot with some pictures that suggest they're not a virgin AND they're in Medellin AND they're not the wife of some rich guy or some other super obvious thing (a nun) that eliminates them from needing or wanting money at all, then, you can ask them to meet. It's not a magic special super secret group of facebook girls guys.

Colombian airlines require masks on national flights. Sometimes I am asked to wear one to board, sometimes not. I never wear one during the flights but most passengers do. I don't know why Colombia is holding on to a mask mandate after most other countries left them behind. It seems the country likes to go its own way on matters of public health. They still require a yellow fever vaccine for people who arrive direct from Brazil. Go figure.

[QUOTE=KeviKev68;2792585]Yes, it was a nice report. I would like to underscore how important masks and proof of vaccinations. At LAX, I was required by Avianca to wear a mask on the flight. They also wanted my vaccination history well beyond my most recent shot. I don't know if other carriers are requiring the same. I see a lot people wearing masks.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Parasitius;2792633]If they have a facebook account and they look hot with some pictures that suggest they're not a virgin AND they're in Medellin AND they're not the wife of some rich guy or some other super obvious thing (a nun) that eliminates them from needing or wanting money at all, then, you can ask them to meet. It's not a magic special super secret group of facebook girls guys.[/QUOTE]I agree. Facebook is not like Seeking or Tinder. People in Colombia use FB like Americans do, to set up a personal profile for friends and family. The big difference is that some of the girls in Medellin are open to having sex with gringos to make some extra money. A number of these girls are not full time escorts but just open to it when they need the money. You just need to find young attractive women located in Medellin and make friend requests. From there, you mine their friends for more women. There are also nightclubs in Medellin where you can find friends there and just ask to be their friend. There are many ways to discover and find women located in Medellin. You just need to make the effort and spend some time doing it.

If this is too much trouble and you don't want to do it, you don't have to. There are strip clubs, casas, nightclubs and streetwalkers for immediate meetings. But if you are only wiling to spend a little time on Facebook, it probably won't be that successful. If you have willing to make the effort and keep at it, it can be a goldmine for young attractive women willing to have GFE sex with you for a reasonable price.

OK made my first trip to Medellin at the end of January. Had help with a few members prior to arriving on trying to establish FB contacts. Set up a side account and started adding as much as I could. Thanks to Humpty and Jim for some contacts to get me started. I don't speak much Spanish at all but have taken up duolingo and try to spend 15 minutes everyday. I know I will slowly get better as time goes on. Looking at reviews and recommendations I wanted a good safe place to stay. Usually when traveling I need good wifi and Aircon. So I decided to stay at Energy for the security and location. When I travel I mainly traveling to experience the culture, activities, and tourist stuff (just want some company while abroad) I've learned to scuba in Thailand and that's been my last 3 trips. This trip I had a few motorcycle tours.

So arrived on Wednesday and took a taxi to Energy. Used the ATM when I got out of customs, seems everyone is hitting that ATM which is right there. Took out some money right away to make sure I had local currency. Seems 6 mil is the max the most I observed the atms will dish out. (About $125 usd) So made it to Energy living and doorman / security has the key to my Airbnb. I get in and settle in as it's late afternoon, I try to notify some of the women I'm arriving as I had no specific dates set up yet. I also checked up on the tours I set up.

I had An E bike city tour the next day Thursday, Motorcycle tour to Guatape on Friday and then dirt bike tour Monday. Well apparently the group Guatape tour I never paid for or finalized. So for that day they had a Motorcycle I could rent and I used google maps to get there myself. A bit of a drive but was a good trip (you get routed thru a dirt area you need to take for some reason, not sure why, maybe a short cut not sure).

So the E bike tour was great. When in a big city I always see if the e bike tours available. You get to see so much and cover quite a good amount of area without being exhausted. Gives you an idea of the layout of the city and the guide gives you a lot of recommendations.

Later that night I meet up with.

Dahiana Crespedes.

Really great body (enhanced) but in general not knowing Spanish I don't think one will have as good as a time just in my opinion. Yes I used translator but not quite the same. It was good service GFE. Very nice body.

The next girl I saw was Nanii Columbia.

She speaks a little English and I took her to dinner. After that wanted to go to a club and hear some music. WE traveled by Uber to not sure where it was but I couldn't find an ATM (many ATMs and places that have ATMs are closed up at night) I didn't have any pesos on me and cautious just using my card for everything. So we end up bailing back to the Airbnb. Had a good time with her also GFE.

So I've been around a long time in general and pretty smart but yeah I got taken for some money. All my fault, funny something I would never do at home but oh well it is what it is. The first one Manuela Bernal. On facebook.

She uses a driver to collect part of the full amount and says she arrives after to make sure (her safety). I think I gave the guy 1 mil. $25 usd I think. Even took a picture of his drivers license and plate number. Oh course she never shows up. Says she was robbed blah blah blah. My fault. I think a red flag with this one on FB she post videos and pics but you can't comment on her page or any of her post.

Estefa Morales.

Next one I meet on fb also and actually talked with her quite awhile. We set up a later day to meet (Sunday) as I had other stuff lined up and she gave me the whole story blah blah. So gave her money up front again way of much. And of course the day comes and she never shows up. She gets a mouth full of text of my thoughts. I actually meet her in person when I gave the money to her the day before. Again my fault. Southing I would usually never do. The money I lost between the 2 girls I'm not crying over and oh well money lost. Lesson learned. She has changed her number but still text me. I told her I fell sorry for her situation (saying he Mom died, who knows) I told her hey I forgive her, she stills text me still but I've told her if she mentions money I will just block her.

I got to see this one at her place. Cristal.

Cristal Forums Photoprepagos. (enhanced).

She was fun, mirrored wall and small shower to use. Clean good place She ordered my uber on my way out, she again was fun and very engaging. I think she had someone coming in right after me. (Side note some of the smaller rear doors on their cars have are squarish. I ended up opening a rear door took one to the middle of the forehead. (the Uber driver keep pointing at my forehead) he took me to a pharmacy because it was bleeding pretty good. I cleaned it up and bandaid over it. After that got dropped off in El Centro area just to walk around and maybe shop. After a few hours of shopping, there is still blood seeping thru the bandaid. At that point I knew I need stitches. So there was a hospital close to El Centro and went there (3 hour tour) LOL. Only $25 later and 3 stitches. Back to my hotel after that.

I see a girl named ISA, she doesn't have FB. And was referred to by a member Jimmy. She was fun but in the middle of things looks like her period came on with a small amount of blood on the bag. So let her know, she jumped up and went to the bathroom after we finished. She apologized and was on her way not too long after. She tried to ask to come by the next day and I reminded her about her period but was going to recommend her friend but she wasn't GFE. So pass.

Stefina was referred to me from again a member, She doesn't have facebook. Very petite cute girl. All natural and small chest. She was very cute and easy going. She smoked a bit on the balcony (I don't). Kinda shy but all and all fun and GFE. She was suppose to arrived by a certain time as I wanted to use the Jacuzzi on the top of the hotel but the time she arrived it was closed 10 pm.

Was suppose to meet a girl the morning I was leaving her name is Maria (another recommended lady), She showed up but only had a picture of her I. The on the phone Energy won't allow that, She apologized so I was scrambling last minute as I had to check out in 2 hours. I had been talking with Lexi a massage lady that was mentioned in the reviews and she was able to come over last minute. She does nuru type of massage very sensual massage. She looks younger in her pics but I she was still good looking, probably in her 30's. The sensual part was really good and had a good time right before I needed to be out the door.

So all in all a good time. Rappi keep having issues finding Energy and a few times orders got canceled. I used the restaurant at Airbnb and man the T-bone steak was awesome. Probably 1 lb, $70 but well worth it. I got a deep tissue massage at Medellin sports massage which was really good. I almost tapped out, they seem pretty busy with appointments but seem to do really good. I never got a chance to book them again but wanted to.

Also the dirt biking was a killer but a bit too much 8 hours of true dirt biking in the mountains. (Never dirt bike before, just street bike). If I had to do it again, maybe half amount of time and the up hill was. A learning curve. I fell a lot and yeah my knee is still recovering (not used to putting my foot down, different with street bikes). Didn't make it to any Casas and I'm not into street game. I like the comforts in my own place. Had a few members numbers that were also there the same time, just never got a chance to hang out with anyone. Next time will try to get out at night a bit more and experience the night life and the cases, clubs.

Sorry for the long post.

[QUOTE=Parasitius;2792633]If they have a facebook account and they look hot with some pictures that suggest they're not a virgin AND they're in Medellin AND they're not the wife of some rich guy or some other super obvious thing (a nun) that eliminates them from needing or wanting money at all, then, you can ask them to meet. It's not a magic special super secret group of facebook girls guys.[/QUOTE]It's not a special, super, secret group of Facebook girls. However, it's a bit more restrictive than just some sexy photos. Colombian women dress sexy and they love their selfies. If you start messaging every sexy girl you find on Facebook in Medellin, there will probably be some issues.

It's more productive to follow the guides recently linked and start building from known prepagos.

And for today's batch of "How do you find girls on Facebook" guys, just read back and you'll find the information, or go directly to the "Links to Reports of Distinction" thread and start reading.

You can friend and message random girls too. I just wouldn't be asking them how much for sex off the bat. Treat it just like "sliding into dms" here in the US. Say Hi, maybe compliment them and if they respond and are friendly go from there.

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2792670]It's not a special, super, secret group of Facebook girls. However, it's a bit more restrictive than just some sexy photos. Colombian women dress sexy and they love their selfies. If you start messaging every sexy girl you find on Facebook in Medellin, there will probably be some issues.

It's more productive to follow the guides recently linked and start building from known prepagos.

And for today's batch of "How do you find girls on Facebook" guys, just read back and you'll find the information, or go directly to the "Links to Reports of Distinction" thread and start reading.[/QUOTE]

Nice job on the post, very sorry about the rip offs, live and learn. Never, ever pay up front. You'll be back and it will be even better.

[QUOTE=Muccells;2792652]OK made my first trip to Medellin at the end of January. Had help with a few members prior to arriving on trying to establish FB contacts. Set up a side account and started adding as much as I could. Thanks to Humpty and Jim for some contacts to get me started. I don't speak much Spanish at all but have taken up duolingo and try to spend 15 minutes everyday. I know I will slowly get better as time goes on. Looking at reviews and recommendations I wanted a good safe place to stay. Usually when traveling I need good wifi and Aircon. So I decided to stay at Energy for the security and location. When I travel I mainly traveling to experience the culture, activities, and tourist stuff (just want some company while abroad) I've learned to scuba in Thailand and that's been my last 3 trips. This trip I had a few motorcycle tours.

So arrived on Wednesday and took a taxi to Energy. Used the ATM when I got out of customs, seems everyone is hitting that ATM which is right there. Took out some money right away to make sure I had local currency. Seems 6 mil is the max the most I observed the atms will dish out. (About $125 usd) So made it to Energy living and doorman / security has the key to my Airbnb. I get in and settle in as it's late afternoon, I try to notify some of the women I'm arriving as I had no specific dates set up yet. I also checked up on the tours I set up.

I had An E bike city tour the next day Thursday, Motorcycle tour to Guatape on Friday and then dirt bike tour Monday. Well apparently the group Guatape tour I never paid for or finalized. So for that day they had a Motorcycle I could rent and I used google maps to get there myself. A bit of a drive but was a good trip (you get routed thru a dirt area you need to take for some reason, not sure why, maybe a short cut not sure).

So the E bike tour was great. When in a big city I always see if the e bike tours available. You get to see so much and cover quite a good amount of area without being exhausted. Gives you an idea of the layout of the city and the guide gives you a lot of recommendations.

Later that night I meet up with.

Dahiana Crespedes.

Really great body (enhanced) but in general not knowing Spanish I don't think one will have as good as a time just in my opinion. Yes I used translator but not quite the same. It was good service GFE. Very nice body.

The next girl I saw was Nanii Columbia.

She speaks a little English and I took her to dinner. After that wanted to go to a club and hear some music. WE traveled by Uber to not sure where it was but I couldn't find an ATM (many ATMs and places that have ATMs are closed up at night) I didn't have any pesos on me and cautious just using my card for everything. So we end up bailing back to the Airbnb. Had a good time with her also GFE.

So I've been around a long time in general and pretty smart but yeah I got taken for some money. All my fault, funny something I would never do at home but oh well it is what it is. The first one Manuela Bernal. On facebook.

She uses a driver to collect part of the full amount and says she arrives after to make sure (her safety). I think I gave the guy 1 mil. $25 usd I think. Even took a picture of his drivers license and plate number. Oh course she never shows up. Says she was robbed blah blah blah. My fault. I think a red flag with this one on FB she post videos and pics but you can't comment on her page or any of her post.

Estefa Morales.

Next one I meet on fb also and actually talked with her quite awhile. We set up a later day to meet (Sunday) as I had other stuff lined up and she gave me the whole story blah blah. So gave her money up front again way of much. And of course the day comes and she never shows up. She gets a mouth full of text of my thoughts. I actually meet her in person when I gave the money to her the day before. Again my fault. Southing I would usually never do. The money I lost between the 2 girls I'm not crying over and oh well money lost. Lesson learned. She has changed her number but still text me. I told her I fell sorry for her situation (saying he Mom died, who knows) I told her hey I forgive her, she stills text me still but I've told her if she mentions money I will just block her.

I got to see this one at her place. Cristal.

Cristal Forums Photoprepagos. (enhanced).

She was fun, mirrored wall and small shower to use. Clean good place She ordered my uber on my way out, she again was fun and very engaging. I think she had someone coming in right after me. (Side note some of the smaller rear doors on their cars have are squarish. I ended up opening a rear door took one to the middle of the forehead. (the Uber driver keep pointing at my forehead) he took me to a pharmacy because it was bleeding pretty good. I cleaned it up and bandaid over it. After that got dropped off in El Centro area just to walk around and maybe shop. After a few hours of shopping, there is still blood seeping thru the bandaid. At that point I knew I need stitches. So there was a hospital close to El Centro and went there (3 hour tour) LOL. Only $25 later and 3 stitches. Back to my hotel after that.

I see a girl named ISA, she doesn't have FB. And was referred to by a member Jimmy. She was fun but in the middle of things looks like her period came on with a small amount of blood on the bag. So let her know, she jumped up and went to the bathroom after we finished. She apologized and was on her way not too long after. She tried to ask to come by the next day and I reminded her about her period but was going to recommend her friend but she wasn't GFE. So pass.

Stefina was referred to me from again a member, She doesn't have facebook. Very petite cute girl. All natural and small chest. She was very cute and easy going. She smoked a bit on the balcony (I don't). Kinda shy but all and all fun and GFE. She was suppose to arrived by a certain time as I wanted to use the Jacuzzi on the top of the hotel but the time she arrived it was closed 10 pm.

Was suppose to meet a girl the morning I was leaving her name is Maria (another recommended lady), She showed up but only had a picture of her I. The on the phone Energy won't allow that, She apologized so I was scrambling last minute as I had to check out in 2 hours. I had been talking with Lexi a massage lady that was mentioned in the reviews and she was able to come over last minute. She does nuru type of massage very sensual massage. She looks younger in her pics but I she was still good looking, probably in her 30's. The sensual part was really good and had a good time right before I needed to be out the door.

So all in all a good time. Rappi keep having issues finding Energy and a few times orders got canceled. I used the restaurant at Airbnb and man the T-bone steak was awesome. Probably 1 lb, $70 but well worth it. I got a deep tissue massage at Medellin sports massage which was really good. I almost tapped out, they seem pretty busy with appointments but seem to do really good. I never got a chance to book them again but wanted to.

Also the dirt biking was a killer but a bit too much 8 hours of true dirt biking in the mountains. (Never dirt bike before, just street bike). If I had to do it again, maybe half amount of time and the up hill was. A learning curve. I fell a lot and yeah my knee is still recovering (not used to putting my foot down, different with street bikes). Didn't make it to any Casas and I'm not into street game. I like the comforts in my own place. Had a few members numbers that were also there the same time, just never got a chance to hang out with anyone. Next time will try to get out at night a bit more and experience the night life and the cases, clubs.

Sorry for the long post.[/QUOTE]

He can register it over the Internet.

[QUOTE=Gabacho;2792437]Your phone is going to be bricked up when you come back.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JohnGault;2792404]Table Dance Grill Club. Never heard of it. Anyone know of it?........................[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JjBee62;2792508]It's over by the airport, the one in Medellin, not the one in Rionegro. The one report I've seen on it wasn't promising at all.[/QUOTE]

Normally I'd be loathe to correct JjBee62 (from whose posts over the past several years, I've gleaned much good info and guidance in negotiating the Medellin Happy Hunting Ground). But in this case I've been to Table Dance Grill Club twice in the past few weeks and sessioned there one of those times. It's located on Avenida San Juan (aka: Calle 44) just a 10 minute walk from the Exito on La70. Address from Google Maps: CL. 44, #73-58, Laureles-Estadio. At night, you'll find that stretch of San Juan quite deserted and shady looking. I walked to and from the club, but some might feel more comfortable traveling by taxi /Uber even if they're staying nearby in Laureles.

If I'm not mistaken, pre-pandemic, there was a quite seedy, dump of a joint in the same location called the Apoteosis Club--which was on a par with some of the real hole-in-the wall El Centro Clubs. I vaguely recall stopping in there a couple of times and just finding 3 or 4 bored looking, chicas with big-time poundage issues.

However, fairly recently, someone has renovated the premises and up-graded the business model. In terms of both ambiance and pricing I'd rate this new incarnation somewhere between the well known second-tier clubs (Luna Lunera; San Diego Grill) and the better of the El Centro Clubs (Conejitos; Barra Ejecutiva). It's tinier than all of the above; cleaner and somewhat spiffier than the El Centro clubs but still quite spare in terms of decor and overall atmosphere. To my surprise, the chica selection (about 10 in all) was relatively good: no real beauties as you may find occasionally at La Isla, FaseII, and Luna Lunera--but several quite attractive, and, unlike almost every club and casa here, I saw only one seriously overweight girl. As in the El Centro clubs, the ladies are much less dolled up and younger looking than in the top tier clubs--and less plastic enhancement fore and aft.

No entry or cover charge. Rooms clean enough (I think with hot water), but quite bare-boned and no music.

[QUOTE=Recondite;2792726]You can friend and message random girls too. I just wouldn't be asking them how much for sex off the bat. Treat it just like "sliding into dms" here in the US. Say Hi, maybe compliment them and if they respond and are friendly go from there.[/QUOTE]You're correct. I was mainly directing that towards the guys who won't take the time to use a bit of tact.

[QUOTE=NilAdmirari;2792744]Normally I'd be loathe to correct JjBee62 (from whose posts over the past several years, I've gleaned much good info and guidance in negotiating the Medellin Happy Hunting Ground). But in this case I've been to Table Dance Grill Club twice in the past few weeks and sessioned there one of those times. It's located on Avenida San Juan (aka: Calle 44) just a 10 minute walk from the Exito on La70. Address from Google Maps: CL. 44, #73-58, Laureles-Estadio. At night, you'll find that stretch of San Juan quite deserted and shady looking. I walked to and from the club, but some might feel more comfortable traveling by taxi /Uber even if they're staying nearby in Laureles.

If I'm not mistaken, pre-pandemic, there was a quite seedy, dump of a joint in the same location called the Apoteosis Club--which was on a par with some of the real hole-in-the wall El Centro Clubs. I vaguely recall stopping in there a couple of times and just finding 3 or 4 bored looking, chicas with big-time poundage issues.

However, fairly recently, someone has renovated the premises and up-graded the business model. In terms of both ambiance and pricing I'd rate this new incarnation somewhere between the well known second-tier clubs (Luna Lunera; San Diego Grill) and the better of the El Centro Clubs (Conejitos; Barra Ejecutiva). It's tinier than all of the above; cleaner and somewhat spiffier than the El Centro clubs but still quite spare in terms of decor and overall atmosphere. To my surprise, the chica selection (about 10 in all) was relatively good: no real beauties as you may find occasionally at La Isla, FaseII, and Luna Lunera--but several quite attractive, and, unlike almost every club and casa here, I saw only one seriously overweight girl. As in the El Centro clubs, the ladies are much less dolled up and younger looking than in the top tier clubs--and less plastic enhancement fore and aft.

No entry or cover charge. Rooms clean enough (I think with hot water), but quite bare-boned and no music.[/QUOTE]I appreciate the correction. I know where it's at now. There's another place that was mentioned a year or two ago, further south and it had a different kind of name. I had planned on checking it out but someone gave it a "waste of time" review before I got into town.

Now I can't find the other place. I just remember it was a bit west and north of the airport.

[QUOTE=YngMong;2792420]The only issue I had in Laurles was all the ATM's I could find let you take out 600 K at a time and with fees it adds up.[/QUOTE]Davivienda Bank ATM's do not charge fees, and you can withdraw 2,000,000 each transaction. Multiple transactions per day allowed. There is one on LA 70 one and a half blocks from the Exito towards the stadium, opposite side of street from Exito.

[QUOTE]Laura Bustamante. I would admit she had a cute light skinned face, but after getting undressed her body was fat and she had a strange smell down there. [/QUOTE]I was with her almost nine years ago and I thought she was too old then. It's hard to believe she could order 250,000 worth of food for one person at a normal restaurant in Copacabana. Sounds like she had a deal with the restaurant.

[QUOTE=Muccells;2792652]OK made my first trip to Medellin at the end of January. Had help with a few members prior to arriving on trying to establish FB contacts. Set up a side account and started adding as much as I could. Thanks to Humpty and Jim for some contacts to get me started. I don't speak much Spanish at all but have taken up duolingo and try to spend 15 minutes everyday. I know I will slowly get better as time goes on. Looking at reviews and recommendations I wanted a good safe place to stay. Usually when traveling I need good wifi and Aircon. So I decided to stay at Energy for the security and location. When I travel I mainly traveling to experience the culture, activities, and tourist stuff (just want some company while abroad) I've learned to scuba in Thailand and that's been my last 3 trips. This trip I had a few motorcycle tours.

So arrived on Wednesday and took a taxi to Energy. Used the ATM when I got out of customs, seems everyone is hitting that ATM which is right there. Took out some money right away to make sure I had local currency. Seems 6 mil is the max the most I observed the atms will dish out. (About $125 usd) So made it to Energy living and doorman / security has the key to my Airbnb. I get in and settle in as it's late afternoon, I try to notify some of the women I'm arriving as I had no specific dates set up yet. I also checked up on the tours I set up..[/QUOTE]Are you a rookie at this. Why on earth would you give a hooker money for a future session. That's amateur hour. That's like giving money to Creflo Dollar. Think of this face anytime you are dealing with Pros: [URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creflo_Dollar[/URL].

Where have all the SW's gone?

Decided to hit El Centro up on Friday afternoon at around 5 PM to see what talent was out and was disappointed as in the past before all the barricading at ground zero there typically would be a better selection out.

I didn't find the glass covered passageway on the side of the Church / Fountain area or backstreet much more crowded than before the barricading which I think may turn out to be around awhile given all the tourists.

There were still some SW's inside the barricaded area, but just not like before. And nobody working around the Fountain or in front of the Church. Typically on a Friday there would be SW's all over the place milling around but no more.

I did notice several old timers working, both Colombians and Venezuelans who have been around several years, but there just didn't seem to be many younger prettier SW's out and it seemed as though there were a lot less Venezuelans around. The park adjacent to the Museum used to be full of them, but no more.

I asked one of my Colombian amigas, a little spinner that I took upstairs at Zona Rosa, it's still 13 K short time and asked her opinion as to the current situation as she is there everyday and she told me a lot of the Venezuelans had left, and a lot of them have been deported. I don't know how much truth there is to this, but I'm still perplexed as to where all the SW's have gone, just seems like a lot less, and on a Friday late afternoon before the barricading it would of been packed.

I haven't spent much time there as of lately, but it's very different than before the barricading.