Havana

[QUOTE=ChrisH;2431731]..I have the ability to go ANYWHERE in the world, and I happily choose the peaceful, lovely city of Havana...[/QUOTE]Yes, peaceful and lovely indeed: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOdUMjr85h8[/URL].

Because you go there so frequently, I assume that you speak the language, so this link can give you an idea of how bad things really are, because this happened to the son of somebody high up in the Cuban government: [URL]https://www.cuballama.com/blog/muerte-hijo-diplomatica-unico-homicidio-del-que-ha-hablado-ntv/[/URL].

Cuba is not "peaceful" at all, and by portray it as such could put unsuspecting people in harm's way.

[QUOTE=RebelMonger;2431847]Yes, peaceful and lovely indeed: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOdUMjr85h8[/URL].

Because you go there so frequently, I assume that you speak the language, so this link can give you an idea of how bad things really are, because this happened to the son of somebody high up in the Cuban government: [URL]https://www.cuballama.com/blog/muerte-hijo-diplomatica-unico-homicidio-del-que-ha-hablado-ntv/[/URL].

Cuba is not "peaceful" at all, and by portray it as such could put unsuspecting people in harm's way.[/QUOTE]That weakass video showed something that happens in the usa, at least every hour, followed by police brutality, mall shootings, work place shootings, school shootings, carjacking, robberies, rape, families killing each other, etc.

Yes, Cuba is VERY PEACEFUL. The safest place in the world!

[QUOTE=ChrisH;2431870]That weakass video showed something that happens in the usa, at least every hour, followed by police brutality, mall shootings, work place shootings, school shootings, carjacking, robberies, rape, families killing each other, etc.

Yes, Cuba is VERY PEACEFUL. The safest place in the world![/QUOTE]I agree. It is peaceful and safe. Much safer than cities in the US. But a big part of the reason is very effective community policing. Everyone reports stuff. And police are in on that loop. I can't imagine how it works on a personal level. But it is very effective at controlling crime as well as political correctness. And not in the sense we use the phrase political correctness.

And as to a particular US administration "cracking down" on Cuba. That's a huge joke. The US policies and embargo have never really changed. They are a very convenient excuse for the Cuban government to blame someone else for their failed state (in economic terms). The last administration in the US started to change things. And the current one went back to the old policy. US tourism is big if you're talking about expat Cubans living in the US. But otherwise it never really got going. On the other hand 70% of the foreign exchange coming into Cuba is from Canadian and European tourism. Mostly Canadian. There are at least 100 probably more. Resorts on the various beaches in Cuba, and almost a million Canadians have winter vacations in Cuba per year. So making it a bit harder for Americans to visit Cuba. By reverting to the old pre-Obama rules, is not a huge thing.

The big problems are the loss of support by Venezuala. And before that from the USSR. The loss or almost loss of the sugar industry after the USSR stopped buying sugar at contracted prices crippled Cuba in the 80's, 90's. And the loss of free or almost free oil is crippling it now. Cuba relies on a lot of diesel generated electricity. And the agricultural productivity has plummeted because they can't keep the old Soviet equipment running.

Yes, I think it is a failed state. It has an unworkable form of socialism. And probably could be a wealthy country if is used a Chinese style of socialism. Or a European style. But how it will evolve is not clear at the moment.

[QUOTE=ChrisH;2431870]That weakass video showed something that happens in the usa, at least every hour, followed by police brutality, mall shootings, work place shootings, school shootings, carjacking, robberies, rape, families killing each other, etc.

Yes, Cuba is VERY PEACEFUL. The safest place in the world![/QUOTE]The problem is that I've lived in USA for 40 years and I've never being a victim of anything you say, do I state that because of that USA is the safest country in the world? No, I don't. I've visited the Dominican Republic close to 30 times and I've never being a victim of any crime, do I say that the Dominican Republic is the safest coutry in the world? No, I don't. Putting people in harm's way with false information is wrong, somebody might be get hurt. This lady [URL]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10330241/Teacher-who-visited-Cuba-due-to-low-crime-rate-strangled-in-hotel-room.html[/URL] decided to go to Cuba due to the advice of people like you.

And before you call me a gusano or say that because I'm anti-communist I'm trying to scare people into going to Cuba, let me make clear that [B]I do not tell people not to go[/B], my problem is with people misrepresenting reality in the island that could put fellow mongers in harm's way. That's all.

Karma will get you sooner than later.

[QUOTE=RebelMonger;2431847]Yes, peaceful and lovely indeed: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOdUMjr85h8[/URL].

Because you go there so frequently, I assume that you speak the language, so this link can give you an idea of how bad things really are, because this happened to the son of somebody high up in the Cuban government: [URL]https://www.cuballama.com/blog/muerte-hijo-diplomatica-unico-homicidio-del-que-ha-hablado-ntv/[/URL].

Cuba is not "peaceful" at all, and by portray it as such could put unsuspecting people in harm's way.[/QUOTE]Really? A 10 second fist fight between 2 teenage boys where nobody got seriously hurt is enough to scare you away? They were probably fighting over a chica. A had a few fights way worse than that as a kid. There are no guns and very little drugs in Cuba. I feel safer there than I do in a big city in the USA. I have walked around the streets of old town alone very late at night several times and the worst thing that has happened to me is that an ugly hooker approached me and didn't want to take no for an answer.

[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2432024]Really? A 10 second fist fight between 2 teenage boys where nobody got seriously hurt is enough to scare you away? They were probably fighting over a chica. A had a few fights way worse than that as a kid. There are no guns and very little drugs in Cuba. I feel safer there than I do in a big city in the USA. I have walked around the streets of old town alone very late at night several times and the worst thing that has happened to me is that an ugly hooker approached me and didn't want to take no for an answer.[/QUOTE]The guy did get injured, he was stabbed; and that happens a lot over there (two of my cousins were assassinated there). Unlike other countries, crime is not reported in Cuba.

If you feel safer there than anywhere else, good for you but keep it to yourself, do not give false information that would put others in harm's way.

If you had fights worst than that when you were a kid, you must be a badass dude with scars all over your body!

If it's true that you walk everywhere late at night (I doubt it), just remember the Cuban saying (you do know the language, don't you! "Tanto va el cantaro a la fuente hasta que se rompe".

Remember something else, you're not Cuban, I am. I know what happens over there, you pretend that you know.

Then again, it occurs to me that the problem could be that I am not tough like you and the other guy, so maybe my warning is for people like me, not for people like you (and the other guy). Can you at least accept that!?

[QUOTE=RebelMonger;2432142]The guy did get injured, he was stabbed; and that happens a lot over there (two of my cousins were assassinated there). Unlike other countries, crime is not reported in Cuba.

If you feel safer there than anywhere else, good for you but keep it to yourself, do not give false information that would put others in harm's way.

If you had fights worst than that when you were a kid, you must be a badass dude with scars all over your body!

If it's true that you walk everywhere late at night (I doubt it), just remember the Cuban saying (you do know the language, don't you! "Tanto va el cantaro a la fuente hasta que se rompe".

Remember something else, you're not Cuban, I am. I know what happens over there, you pretend that you know.

Then again, it occurs to me that the problem could be that I am not tough like you and the other guy, so maybe my warning is for people like me, not for people like you (and the other guy). Can you at least accept that!?[/QUOTE]OK I didn't see the stabbing but now I do. It was Cuban on Cuban violence and probably personal. I have not heard of hardly any violence against tourists. Only 1 or 2 instances. Do you know of more? I would sincerely like to hear about them, not being argumentative here. I heard that the police are extra vigilant about that so locals are very cautious not to mess with tourists. I have never felt unsafe there. There is tons of violence here in the states.

[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2432024]Really? A 10 second fist fight between 2 teenage boys where nobody got seriously hurt is enough to scare you away? They were probably fighting over a chica. A had a few fights way worse than that as a kid. There are no guns and very little drugs in Cuba. I feel safer there than I do in a big city in the USA. I have walked around the streets of old town alone very late at night several times and the worst thing that has happened to me is that an ugly hooker approached me and didn't want to take no for an answer.[/QUOTE]Yep, I always walk the streets by myself in the middle of the night, with a cerveza and bottle of rum. No problems at all, VERY safe. Unlike america, that's for sure.

[QUOTE=ChrisH;2432197]Yep, I always walk the streets by myself in the middle of the night, with a cerveza and bottle of rum. No problems at all, VERY safe. Unlike america, that's for sure.[/QUOTE]Not sure if you're being serious or not. But I believe the previous poster. There still is crime, it is not reported. You don't want to be an unreported statistic.

It is like the leader said a few years back. There is no prostitution in Cuba.

I've noticed that the Cuban police appear to be very efficient. They watch and are serious about their jobs. With this said, I'm sure there is petty crime and Cuban vs Cuban crime but touch a tourist and it becomes high priority. I've never read here about tourists being a victim of serious crimes. Tourism is basically the only money coming in to save the economy so I don't believe the goal is to get the tourists.

I've also walked all over Havana alone and buzzed, and I never felt unsafe.

I always said Cuba is being preserved for a select few who know how to operate there and appreciate its hidden treasures.

The Cuban people are prepared for hard times and will survive and keep their dignity. Things will relax in about a year hopefully and those who understand will slide back in.

Until I start seeing crime directly pinpointing tourist, I'm not worried. Cubans have no connection to the outside world like foreigners do, so it won't be easy to hide tourist crimes.

Go to Cuba, understand times are rough and people might be getting desperate. Up your safety measures and be aware. Cuba is the safest place I have ever been.

At Mr Gogo.

You wrote: I've never read here about tourists being a victim of serious crimes.

On 09-15-19 #6002.

I wrote about this and you even have added a comment to my writing. LOL.

Cuba is safe, but not incredible save.

Three things happened to me and my fiancee last year.

1. Pickpocked in Tikoa.

For the first time in Tikoa with two chica's on a Saturday night with lots of people in the bar.

Upon arrival we stood in the corner near the toilet.

I went to the bar to buy beer, and walked back among the crowd while simultaneously holding 3 cans of beer in front of my stomach in both hands.

We drank our beer and a girl asked me to buy cigarettes.

Then I missed my purse that was stolen while I came back with the beer in my hands.

The purse was in the front pocket of my jeans while my shirt hung over the jeans.

I took a taxi to my home in Havana Viega to get new money, and to lead the second time to Tikoa with the same taxi and the same girls.

Again three beers but now two beers in one hand and one beer in the other. With my arms down, in front of my pockets.

As I walked back among the people to the girls, a person lifted my shirt to reach the pocket of my jeans!

2. Stolen Celurar in Neptuno.

I bought a celular for my novia and a few weeks later her bag containing the celular was stolen by a chico on foot at 5 pm in Neptuno at broad daylight.

Before she realized what was happening, the boy had disappeared in a side street.

I think the boy saw that she was using the phone and putting it in her bag.

3 Attempted theft with knife.

I was at the Prado in Asturia that Tuesday evening.

The good days of Asturia are over, so little chicas are present and not of the desired quality.

After closing Asturia I walked to my house just 3 blocks away.

Two blocks on the Prado and one block in a side street.

In the side street I heard footsteps behind me from running people.

I didn't look back because I felt completely safe in Cuba.

Then two chicos grabbed me and tried to pull me down.

They hung around my neck but were not strong enough.

I weigh 90 kg and the young boys maybe 60 kg.

I dragged them on while they were hanging on my neck and I screamed as loud as I could.

One of the boys said "No grita" and I screamed louder.

One held his hand over my mouth and his finger came between my jaws. I bet his finger with all the power that I had.

In the meantime I had towed them 8 or 10 meters and we arrived at the Consulado intersection. Around the corner two Cubans were sitting on the doorstep of their house.

When the chicos saw the Cubans, they fled.

At home in my room I saw some blood on my bed. I wondered where that came from and then I noticed that I had two stab wounds. One at the front at the height of my heart, and one at the top next to the spine.

Because of the adrenaline I did not feel the wounds.

Sorry but I can't help it reading all the negative reports about havana being dead. I live here and this coming summer will be my 2nd year living in this beautiful place. Yes things can get difficult at times like the fuel crisis but it has never been more than a week each time it happens. Do I suffer when there was no fuel? No I didn't because I paid the cubans to cut the q. That extra 5 bucks can do wonder to any cola here in Cuba. Yes, I get frustrated with slow service at times here, but does it matter? To me no. I am here to enjoy slow paced living, away from all the hustle and bustle living in a modern city. Most foreigners living in havana that I know are very happy here. So what if theres no chicken for a week. The next time its available, stock up whatever you need or just buy them when we travel out. I'm not here to debate or anything. I've seen this cycle going on for a couple of times. Each time it gets tough, the situation just improve back again the moment people are saying its going down to the bottom. Don't trust so much what you read online or what lies people spread. I am enjoying myself here and I look forward to spend more years living in this country. Peace out! Just in case you're wodnering, I'm not cuban.

No one is seriously getting into any debates about safety in Cuba, etc.

You're 100 times or more likely to be robbed particularly violently in Miami than in La Habana.

No one is really arguing about how life can be difficult, with periodic shortages, etc etc.

NO. We. Well at leas I. Am commenting on the broader structural issues that plague the island. The entire edifice was built with Soviet subsidies. And before it was about to come crashing down. Hugo Chavez and some others saved it.

'where the govt was pimping out their doctors in exchange for foreign currency.

All that is mostly gone now.

Which means the edifice is likely to come crashing down after all.

IF. And I mean IF some of the things Ty Down wrote are true (and there is some corroborative evidence in my exchange with my Cuban friend who has no dog in this fight) then these may be the FIRST signs of things finally crashing.

That's really all. In the meantime, enjoy Cuba for as long as you can because when socialism finally dies its inevitable death. No one really knows what will happen (in terms of this "hobby".

(though I actually think, in the very first opening capitalist stages. Prostitution will be more likely to be rampant among the more underprivileged sectors of society).

My first trip to Cuba was in November 2016 after Obama relaxed relations with the Cuban government. I have since made 9 or 10 trips to Cuba and had a blast on every trip except the last one, which was a couple weeks ago.

To me, the changes in Cuba have been dramatic. The empty store shelves and the shortages of just about everything is the most notable. Something else that I noticed, several of the National Monuments in Havana are missing and defaced with graffiti. Also, all the flag poles that used to be in front of the US Embassy are gone.

Reports from out in the provinces are even worse, something as simple as laundry detergent does not exist.

Here's an excellent article on the economic status of Cuba - [URL]https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/cuba/economy.htm[/URL].

- excerpt from article - "Years of doing without have conditioned the Cuban people to live on very little beyond promises, and quick and decisive government action against anyone who steps out of line ensures that complainers are dealt with. Cubans are losing whatever ability they may have had to accept their lot in life. Generations have faced scarcity of basic goods, and lack of freedom to speak and act as they pleased, but they survived and found a way to "resolver" the problems of daily life. There is now much greater frustration about the government's failure to create the conditions necessary to improve the economy, and willingness to accept the status quo is evaporating. ".

[QUOTE=TyDown;2432739]. Generations have faced scarcity of basic goods, and lack of freedom to speak and act as they pleased, but they survived and found a way to "resolver" the problems of daily life. There is now much greater frustration about the government's failure to create the conditions necessary to improve the economy, and willingness to accept the status quo is evaporating. ".[/QUOTE]Yes. EXCEPT their unwillingness to accept the status quo has most often been exemplified by doing anything / everything to get the fuck out of there, and bring their family with. I know of a Cubano and his family that I met in 1998. And he finally made it to the U.S. 2 years ago.

He's much older now. But still thrilled beyond belief.

The big issue is will the people actually dare take to the streets. Will this translate into resistance on the island in perhaps a violent manner?

During the Special Period, there were several very violent oubreaks. Suppressed. And there was about to be another big one in Havana, where Fidel personally came in and intervened and managed to calm the people down.

Ask any cuban about that story, those stories. They all know (well at least habaneros do).

p.s. the defacement of national commie statues,/symbols IS interesting. but do they include Cuban heroes prior to Castro? Marti? Maceo, etc? It's one thing to deface something to do with Che, and quite another with Marti.