German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[QUOTE=Amriptna111;1316819]Though when she saw me she smiled and everythingi could tell it was fake and then I noticed she has a swollen eye a dn swollen cheek which was concelaed using heavy powder. You could tell either she hit something or someone hit her but I doubt it was her hitting something as it was at 2 different location. I had a feeling she was beaten. I didn't session with her and I really did feel sick to see that. I mean she has to put up with kissing old ugly men doing allsors of things and at the end of the day some stupic young blardy idiot takes her money. If anywaone could share how to spot an independant girl please do share[/QUOTE]You're making a lot of assumptions here. Someone obviously hit her but is that grounds to conclude that she is a sex slave who's abused by a pimp?

Maybe she had a run-in with another girl at the club who hit her with something? Maybe someone mugged her on the train? Maybe she was abused by a customer? Maybe she has an abusive boyfriend?

[QUOTE=Amriptna111;1316819]Optimist could you please share how do your scour for those independant and those who have pimps? How can you tell (eventhough it may NOT be fullproof but if it could help please share).[/QUOTE]Why not ask the girl?

[QUOTE=Batou75;1316591]There seems to be two kinds of girls in these clubs, the ones who are independent and strong and do this for themselves because they want the fast money, to buy designer clothes and jewelry etc. And the ones with pimps. The strong independent ones basically say the girls with pimps are stupid and weak and it's their own fault and do not feel any guilt for them, because no matter what they tell them, they would not listen and always go back to their "boyfriends". So they just stop caring about them.[/QUOTE]This is the important thing to remember here. I'm really unaware of any "sex slave cartels" out there. Sure. There may be some organizations that help girls get papers and transportation across borders and demand a payment for that service. Perhaps even punitive rates for such a service. But I believe most "pimps" are simply abusive boyfriends that take advantage of women. I imagine those girls have sex with those abusive boyfriends and I imagine it's not very pleasant for them. If you're a nice guy. How could having sex with you be worse than that?

Personally, I would not have paid for a two-hour session without sex. I think that girl probably worked you.

[QUOTE=Arctic; 1316842]This is the important thing to remember here. I'm really unaware of any "sex slave cartels" out there. Sure. There may be some organizations that help girls get papers and transportation across borders and demand a payment for that service. Perhaps even punitive rates for such a service. But I believe most "pimps" are simply abusive boyfriends that take advantage of women. I imagine those girls have sex with those abusive boyfriends and I imagine it's not very pleasant for them. If you're a nice guy. How could having sex with you be worse than that?

Personally, I would not have paid for a two-hour session without sex. I think that girl probably worked you.[/QUOTE]Of cause this is busness. Each girl makes 200000 one year. The pimps make the girls love them first, only later hit them. The girls become working girls, their heads are fucked so they become clever only for the work. This is the life and the working girls are big liers believe nothing. One guy asks how you know girl has pimp, good service kissing these things mean she has pimp and must work hard. Germany becomes slowly one center for this work and everyone knows for this from many countries. Just enjoy sex from these women nothing more.

[QUOTE=London Traveller;1316840]Why not ask the girl?[/QUOTE]Great advice! Awesome. Thanks!

[QUOTE=Arctic; 1316837]You're making a lot of assumptions here. Someone obviously hit her but is that grounds to conclude that she is a sex slave who's abused by a pimp?

Maybe she had a run-in with another girl at the club who hit her with something? Maybe someone mugged her on the train? Maybe she was abused by a customer? Maybe she has an abusive boyfriend?[/QUOTE]Well yeah I agreed with the assumption part but really it does bothers me about the black Saturday thingy. I was under the impression they are there to make quick money well at first anyway.

[QUOTE=Arctic;1316842]I'm really unaware of any "sex slave cartels" out there.[/QUOTE]Which doesn't mean they don't exist. You are too optimistic, let me tell you.

HB

[QUOTE=Arctic;1316842]Personally, I would not have paid for a two-hour session without sex. I think that girl probably worked you.[/QUOTE]Maybe she did. But I would rather be the guy that got scamed, then the stone cold guy that would have sex with her anyway. But in heinsight I should have broken off the session mutch sooner. But my brain stopped working I did not know what to do or how to handle the situation.

[QUOTE=KPete; 1305557]I will be in Frankfurt for a short period in September, and it so happens that one of my available days will be Saturday. 15 September, the last evening of the large Automechanika messe. Having read past reports, I am familiar with some of the trade-offs involved with going to Oase, Palace, Mainhattan, or World during that particular messe.

From what I have read, Oase, Mainhattan, and Palace will all likely be packed with girls before 10 pm, so any would be good choices for going early. World may be a little depleted with girls heading to other clubs closer to the city (the above, plus Sharks) to get in on the messe action. But later in the evening, Oase, Mainhattan, and Palace will likely be flooded with men. Based on what I have read, this sounds pretty awful: some men walking around fully clothed, girls in full-on processor mode, overcrowded public areas, etc. Some of these clubs may be better at dealing with the influx of men (sounds like Mainhattan may be better than Oase in this regard?).

My question is this: If you had to choose a club in which to spend that evening, which would you choose and why? I would be particularly grateful to hear from local or senior members or others who have experience visiting clubs during this particular messe. I wasn't planning to rent a car, but if people strongly suggest that World is the way to go, I would consider trying to get access to one.

Thanks[/QUOTE]I am going to be there on 14, 15 and 16, I will have a car too, I was thinking of going to a partytreff if you're interested?

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1316878]Which doesn't mean they don't exist. You are too optimistic, let me tell you.

HB[/QUOTE]As a matter of fact I've done a lot of research on this issue. I know that the USA Department of State is all over the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] issue as well as the United Nations and if there are all these sex slave cartels. Where are they? Why hasn't a single one been found? Doesn't mean that they don't exist. You're right about that. But it's a good indication that they are much more rare than the trafficking propaganda would have you believe.

[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] is BIG BUSINESS for law enforcement. Here in the USA for example, it's a beautiful way for state and local police departments to pull money out of the federal government. More tax dollars down the drain and who's going to complain about spending money to combat "slavery"? Beautiful racket it is.

In fact. In Indianapolis, for the Super Bowl. They predicted tens of thousands of sex slaves. Yet I can only find they made arrests for two women.

[url]http://www.theindychannel.com/news/30371575/detail.html[/url]

[QUOTE]Once authorities determined that the women were part of a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] operation, their status shifted from suspect to victim, RTV6's Jack Rinehart reported.[/QUOTE]So of course. Two women are arrested and told that if they admit they are victims of "[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url]" then they will receive victim status. Otherwise, they receive criminal status and go to jail. Not too surprising what they'd select.

Again, HB. Not saying that some women are "pushed" into prostitution. But then again, aren't some women "pushed" into becoming a WalMart check-out girl? Aren't some people "pushed" to join the military? Bengali men are certainly "pushed" to become laborers in rich Arab nations. But they are earning a better paycheck than what they'd receive in Bangla Desh.

When I get in a cab in Dubai. I don't ask the taxi driver if he's had a hard life and feels pressured to drive me. I don't think twice about the WalMart check-out girl's abusive husband who takes all her money. What we're talking about here isn't a symptom of prostitution. It's a symptom of the sad state of human affairs all around.

[quote=batou75; 1316591][. ]

the bad.

one girl told me the story about black saturday. this is how some girls are broken in to this business, mostly the forced and trafficked girls. to learn how always to smile and treat customers right, the pimp ties up the girl, and then lets some guys have repeated sex with her over 24 hours, vaginal and anal, and she has to smile the whole time or they beat her. the girl gets no break no food no water just 24 hours of constant forced sex. the girls commonly has black marks or bruises on her lower back after this, hence the term black saturday.

this story fucked me up bad and it took me several days to get it out of my head, if this is even half true. it shows how bad this business is and what some girls have to endure to give "us" our pleasure.

the forced girl.

this exotic looking girl who spoke very little english intrigued me. so i took her to the room. i started in my normal manner, just talking and gently touching her body. trying to get a feel for her. as her english was bad, this took a little while, but she was a sweet girl so i did not mind. but then she dropped a bomb on me, she basically told me she was there against her will, her "boyfriend" forced her to work there. she was a born and raised in germany, but her parents was deeply religious immigrants. so the boyfriend threatened her with telling the parents that she no longer was a virgin and she partied and was drinking alcohol. she told me her father would kill or banish her, if they would find out about her. and the only good thing left in her shitty life was her family, so she would do anything not to loose that. so going to the police was out of the question for her. this is a culture i cannot understand or will ever want to understand, but the girl loved her family so much that she would rather work in forced prostitution then losing them. her hope was that her "boyfriend" would find someone new and prettier in one to two years time and would then let her go. she told me she was taking anti depressants to cope. and if she had one great day among two bad ones she would be ok. she told me this because i was very nice to her and not the standard german customer. she feared that the if she told the this to a german customer or the club management or another girl in the club, they would contact the police and parents would find out about it. she swore me to secrecy and told me she felt a great relief being able to talk to somebody about this. either she was a oscar class actress and completely played me into paying her for two hours of her time with no sex. or she was for real, i could see her fighting the tears several times.

and when i told her there where no way i could have sex with her after this, she got real scared. turns out this particular club is really fuzzy about reputation and keeps scoreboards for the girls. so she was real worried that i would come out of the room not looking satisfied and tell the management that she gave a bad performance and should be kicked out from the club, she told me the boss could see it on my face if i did not get great sex, so she practically begged me to have sex with her. but i could not, i just keeps up the act the rest of the day always smiling when i saw her, and she was always kissing me etc.

what a total mind fuck this was for me, what should i do, i felt i had to do something, but she begged me not to. i left the room with serious self doubt and was depressed. was i a good person for coming to places like this? was i coward for not doing something? what can i do? should i tell the management etc.

the irony of the whole thing was my reaction, the way i chose to cope with this. i basically went and had sex with another girl to feel better and then told her about the whole story without revealing the other girls name, to get it out of my system. she then told me this was a common story among fkk girls, in fact it had happened to her also, but she had broken free from her "boyfriend" and worked now 100% independently, and was "happy" with that.

after talking to allot of girls, i learned allot of things. girls says that regular health checks are not mandatory in most clubs, and some girls choose not to take them. especially the girls with "boyfriends" taking all their money, so they can't afford tests. some clubs are runned by the mafia. many girls have outside pimps / boyfriends and the clubs basically do not care, or can't care because if they get involved in the selling of sex part they get charged with pimping. they just provide the facilities where the guys and girls pay the same entrance fee to use them.

there seems to be two kinds of girls in these clubs, the ones who are independent and strong and do this for themselves because they want the fast money, to buy designer clothes and jewelry etc. and the ones with pimps. the strong independent ones basically say the girls with pimps are stupid and weak and it's their own fault and do not feel any guilt for them, because no matter what they tell them, they would not listen and always go back to their "boyfriends". so they just stop caring about them.

how do you, guys handle the bad side of prostitution, i am basically in bliss when i am with the girls, but the day after i get self doubt and feel badly about it. how do you cope, how do you rationalize it. how can some guys buy sex from drug addicts for 20 euro, and be fine with that and believing its consensual sex. how can guys treat the girls like they are nothing, a product to be used and thrown away, and go home with a clean consciousness. and the you got a whole new subject about wives / girlfriends / children that some of you have to think of. that i don't have to.

i personally have tried to only to buy sex from independent woman, who choose this line of work from themselves. to keep my conscious clean, and as you can read i have failed. and have a hard time with that, still the sweetness of the bliss i experience pulls me, so i really doubt i can stop now, i really have opened a can of worms for myself. thank the norse gods there is no fkk in norway or i would been broke within six months.

there is a lot i have left out, it would simply be to long a post otherwise.

*disclaimer, all information in this post is my personal observations and / or hearsay, and should be treated as sutch.[/quote]i have personally seen or know from good friends clear slavery issues in various countries, over 10 years ago when i was more active. there also is lots of hearsay about this in germany.

unfortunately, all the sex trafficking fighters in reality fight prostitution in its entirety. it is very unusual to see institutions that actively promote legal free prostitution and fight the forced involuntary part of it.

talent visas for prostitutes would be helpful, but just mentioning this in today's feminist climate is a joke. will never happen.

the opposite side of the coin is rarely mentioned, too. the suffering of 40 year old virgin men who never get laid.

or how free prostitution tends to turn into scamming prostitutes. i have seen many places ruined by girls figuring out that they can get easier money by scamming then by actually providing services. in my experience, girls that are pressured. be it by criminal violent pimps or just by agencies who enforce standards- tend to give better service, are less prone to scam, rob or steal. yes, i know this is sad.

as an extreme example, in a recent raid on a tourist rip-off bar in brazil police found date [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] drugs with seven girls. these drugs are used to knock out dumb tourists and then totally clean out their apartment.

recently, in germany, i saw my share of m. slim girls fleeing murderous family hiding in fkk. these were the nicest gfe girls. of course, the fault does not lie with the fkk but with religion and culture and family. the fkk is their salvation, not the cause of their suffering.

i wish i had more time, i could elaborate further on the issues.

if anyone is interested in discussing this, please send me private messages. batou75, send me a pm with your contact details. would love to exchange some experiences and ideas.

[QUOTE=Arctic; 1316834]Almost 99% of the population of the planet is "FORCED" to work to survive. Here in the USA. We have WalMart. There are some hot chicks (not many but some) who work for WalMart 40 to 60 hours a week and they make minimum wage. They could make much more in a German FKK in one summer and then could fly home and attend college the rest of the year. They won't do this but. Is that the fault of all those Romanian beauties who do?

They won't do this because, of course, Americans are "freaked out" by prostitution and anything sexual in general. Here in America, a woman can be RUINED. RUINED I TELL YOU. By a penis if she allows it inside her from the wrong man. Or with the wrong "thoughts" in her head! LOL. This is the land where the whole "trafficking" myth originated and I'm surprised that Europeans are following our sorry lead on this.

How many chicks working at WalMart have a mean old boyfriend or husband who forces them to work at WalMart and then spends all the money they make there? Yet. No one complains about these "WalMart Pimps".

Is a 17 year old kid who joins the USA Military and gets killed the next year in Afghanistan a "trafficked" individual? Is his fate as dire as that of a hookers? No. His is MUCH worse.

In California, they have a new proposition (PROP 35) which seeks to ban "sexual slavery". Wow. Really? And here I thought such slavery was already banned? Silly me. Not only that. But basically any prostitute can now be classified as a "trafficked sex slave".

All trafficking is women moving across borders. Sometimes legally, sometimes illegally. For the purpose of making money. There is nothing wrong with this.[/QUOTE]Great comment. Most of the trafficking stories are pure invention by people who don't care about trafficking or women's well being, care only about repressing sexual outlets for men. And as you said, they care even less about men's well being in armies or unhealthy work places.

I recommend everyone to read [url]www.theantifeminist.com[/url]

But sex slavery does exist, everywhere. Usually caused by restrictive immigration laws, religious repression, and anti-prostitution laws. Or due to criminal mafia-like institutions, or simply submissive tendencies in women.

And it could be reduced by promoting legal, free prostitution and voluntary help to the professionals (or amateurs) in the field.

There's a lot of grey and not so much black and white. I've seen a lot of girls in over 12 years of mongering in Germany. I wouldn't compare paysex with any "normal" job, at least not for Germany. US may be different.

HB

So your making another trip to Germany to check out all that the country has to offer, mainly the fkk clubs. Do you mention your travel plans to friends and family? If so, what is their reaction? I've heard everything from 'why Germany, why not Ireland etc'. Whats funny is guys will comment "you should go to Amsterdam, once in your life you have to experience that'. They have no clue what's available in Germany, that in itself is a huge plus in my opinion. This is a question more towards the USA travelor. Do you tell your friend dropping you off at the airport that your going to fuck your way thru Germany?

I've got some friends who make trips down to Costa Rica and Rio, the first destination in my mind really raises red flags. Rio on the other hand might not get scrutinized as much with the beach scene being so widely known.

What do you mean?

[QUOTE=Breadman;1317053]fuck your way thru Germany?[/QUOTE]Business, businesses, strictly business, business only, nothing but business. Are there some brothels in Germany? Maybe, but I newer heard about them.