Medellin Reports

This is good context. I think this topic is at that place in the news cycle where facts and context take a back seat to narrative driven perception. Another example of this phenomenon happened a few years ago when Rupert Murdoch owned conservative media outlets promoted a narrative that visitors to the Dominican Republic were at lethal risk, with an angle that all inclusive resort liquor was adulterated and poisonous. Statistical analysis showed there was no uptick in the number of tourist deaths and injuries compared to previous years, but it did not slow down the flow of scary stories. Muggings and drugging related robberies absolutely happen in Medellin. They are not new. I have seen nothing beyond anecdotal media reports about an upward trend (I don't consider youtuber videos to be a legitimate news sources). I'm mildly interested in the law enforcement statistics. My opinion, based on what experience I may have, is personal safety practices that have been effective for years will continue to be effective if they are applied consistently. I think inexperienced punters can benefit from the recent surge in reporting about the incidents because it makes them aware of the danger. It's noteworthy that you don't see many reports involving victims from inner city and urban centers. I think that is because they are more likely to be aware of the risk when they arrive.

[QUOTE=Prolijo;2881142]That was about the same ATTEMPTED "kidnapping" incident that was reported by SavePros321 several posts earlier, except your link was by a different brother referencing the incident reported by the original poster and in his title the incident had grown from an attempted kidnapping to an actual one. This kind of shows how these reports can quickly grow into something more dramatic than what actually happened.

Now, the last thing I want to do is imply that Medellin is completely safe. Far from it and as of late it has been getting worse. HOWEVER, the hysteria over recent incidents has been leading many to believe its somehow so much worse than its actually been all along. What was true before and is even more true now is that, yes it can be very dangerous, but one just has to be smart about things. Take reasonable precautions and don't so readily trust people you've just met and don't really know all that well. If you do that, sure bad things might still happen to yo, but your odds of those things happening will be drastically reduced.

Case in point what happened to this guy. For one thing, parts of his story just don't add up. Like he says he broke his leg but was still somehow able to run, jump over barbed wire fences and climb up buildings. What was he Superman? Or maybe his "broken leg" was more like a sprained ankle or something. What else did he exaggerate? He also talked about doing some pretty wild things to elude the guys he thought were pursuing him, like cutting off his hair and stripping off his clothes and shoes, but holding on to the $3000 camera he had brought with him (and which was the one thing any pursuer was really after). What is his life worth to him? If he was really fearful for his life and a bunch of guys were chasing him mainly to steal his expensive camera (or any other valuables) and if I was him I'd just let them have it and keep my clothes on. Actually, I would never take an expensive camera like that up into the back alleys of an impoverished mountainside barrio late into the night in the first place (with a "trusted" guide I had just met on that trip or not). In fact, I'd even be very wary of going to an area like that at night even without any camera or other valuables.

My point is, with few exceptions, most of these incidents involved relative newbies to Medellin or, if not, vets who made stupid mistakes like "dar papaya" or bringing someone (or worse more than one) that they just met back to their apartment or leaving a drink unattended. Those are all things that one can avoid doing (or if not done in ways that mitigate risk). For example, I like to have a phone on me at all times, but if I'm going anywhere which could be sketchy, I only bring a cheap burner phone with little to no personal data on it that could get compromised. Also only as much cash as I might need on that outing, which in Colombia is no more than $30-40 and which I would not be so horribly upset losing if I did get robbed, and never ever any jewelry of any kind. If I bring a credit card, I bring only which, along with any excess cash, I keep well hidden somewhere I won't reveal on my body. If I go someplace where I drink, I always wait until I'm done with my drink before I make any trip to the can. My list of precautions go on, but most of these have already been mentioned many times on ISG and, also in most cases, in most of these recent incidents the victim has slipped up on one or more of these rules.[/QUOTE]

I think you will have to wait a long time to see that.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2881146]What I would like to see is a video of a guy who observed all the cautions required in being in Medellin and still got scoped / kidnapped / etc.[/QUOTE]

I was in Medellin last week. It turned into a medical tourism trip because I had to visit the hospitals a number of time is for a medical issue but t I did have some time for fun in between hospital visits. I stayed in Laureles and was not drugged or robbed. No one attempted to steal anything for me when I was walking around. I was not kidnapped except for the hospital which kept me overnight on one day. For this trip, I decided to see girls on Facebook that I had already seen on previous trips. They were all young and attractive and provided solid performances like they did on previous trips. There were no disappointments or lack of effort. There was one risky situation when one of my girls brought a friend to wait for her when she visited me and I said her friend could come in. It was a risk that I probably should not have taken but her friend was young and attractive and I could not resist. It was not an ideal trip due to the medical issues but I made the best of it and I still enjoyed my visit. After a few trips, you should be able to find some girls that you enjoy being with, and not every trip needs to be meeting brand new girls who may or may not be good in bed. Unless you want to meet brand new girls on each trip which has its own benefits.

[QUOTE=Gabacho;2880955]Nounce can you please tell us what exact crime CeeJay would have been arrested and charged with for refusing to pay her the 200 mil after politely declining her services??...[/QUOTE]Where did I say he would be arrested or charged? You already quoted my answer. One possible scenario is the police look at their transaction record. The police can ask him to pay 200 mil. This is usually what have been reported in the past. At most, they both are at fault, you blame it entirely on the girl. That is one of our differences. I would pay 100 mil to the girl because I would think it is half my fault without condom assuming I wanted to get out of the deal. It is not so difficult to just go to D1 downstairs to get a condom, or Rappi it.

I would tell girl I will pay for the taxi and ask her to leave if I don't like what I see in ADVANCE. I would not let the girl come thinking otherwise.

If the girl agrees to bring cedula but comes without. I could choose to pay nothing because it is 100% on the girl.

In your driver / beer case, I would go out the pay the indriver whether I use fake name or not. I had an agreement with the driver and the driver did nothing wrong unless you count asking your permission is wrong.

Your toaster example does not fit. While the toaster seller said it'is like new but did the girl said she had perfect stomach? My original post is for new mongers coming here and more about prevention. That is why I suggest to ask the girl if she has kid or not. These things can be sorted out before.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2881170]Where did I say he would be arrested or charged? You already quoted my answer. One possible scenario is the police look at their transaction record. The police can ask him to pay 200 mil. This is usually what have been reported in the past. At most, they both are at fault, you blame it entirely on the girl. That is one of our differences. I would pay 100 mil to the girl because I would think it is half my fault without condom assuming I wanted to get out of the deal. It is not so difficult to just go to D1 downstairs to get a condom, or Rappi it.

I would tell girl I will pay for the taxi and ask her to leave if I don't like what I see in ADVANCE. I would not let the girl come thinking otherwise.

If the girl agrees to bring cedula but comes without. I could choose to pay nothing because it is 100% on the girl.

In your driver / beer case, I would go out the pay the indriver whether I use fake name or not. I had an agreement with the driver and the driver did nothing wrong unless you count asking your permission is wrong.
[/QUOTE]It is implied that the police would arrest him. Or charge him with something in order to make him pay her the 200 mil otherwise what is to stop him from just refusing to pay anything and walking away?

The only thing the police can do is threaten to arrest him for not paying her otherwise he would just say no he isn't paying and they would be at a standstill. I mean how else could the police "make him pay her"? Are they going to take out their service weapons and point them at his head and threaten to shoot him. If he doesn't pay up?

And yes exactly I considered the driver asking me permission to buy beer and then have me pay him back as a breach of conduct. The platform is for providing transportation and the messaging function within the app for communicating with the drivers about pickup locations, wait times, etc. Not for panhandling customers for beer money, surely indriver must have a rule against this type of behavior and as far as I'm concerned he should have lost his ability to drive for the platform. Try asking people for beer money while working a a normal job in the US and see how long until you get fired.

I've stayed in hotel nutibara before but it's a bit expensive per night. It's nicer than I need. I am okay with a more basic room, what do you all suggest? I only need a bed, own bathroom and basic wifi (does not need to be rock solid).

Also, what are the going prices for street girls?

[QUOTE=TjBrazil;2881075]You're missing my point. In El Salvador the president had to round up 70 k gang members and put them in prison. It's like working never came to mind. Just being a total pos did by default. In Thailand or Manila, they didn't have to round up 70 k murderers. In Manila I saw poverty and living areas that I wouldn't let my dog live in, and they didn't resort to hard crime. I know the taxis rip you off and tipping culture their is annoying but I'm talking hard core criminals. In Venezuela its like they automatically became kidnappers and armed robbers.

I've been broke before, and I never robbed a 7/11. In America there are over 300 k Hispanic gang members. There are so many jobs in America, why do these Hispanics automatically resort to being these evil people that do horrible things instead of just getting a job. People say that's racist to call Hispanics out, I say BS. It's true. I know white guys commit crime too, but there aren't 300 k white gang members in America. Why are we supposed to be alright with 4 million illegals from mainly Hispanic countries coming in without background checks, ids, infectious diseases check. Where does this brown privilege come from.[/QUOTE]The vast majority of Hispanic immigrants are hard working individuals willing to take jobs you and your kind refuse to touch. I am sure the janitors in your company are Hispanics, 100%. Right now California is kept somewhat affordable because the cheap labor Hispanic immigrants provide.

Stop painting with a very wide brush and filter your language. Come on.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2881149]I believe that in posting one should try to be as clear as possible, do not leave your conclusions to individual perception. The question can be asked relating to your post. Are the street girls much better than the ones in the clubs? Reread your post. Its unclear and ambiguous.[/QUOTE]Your statement can be unclear too. What does "better" mean? Left to the reader's perception. Looks, attitude, cost, safety.

In any case, I wrote there is a difference. I thought that is a good vista point to leave it.

Well Hotel Nutibara is perfect for you. And street girls near hotel nutibara in Plaza Botero ask 50 000.

[QUOTE=JoseFlores;2881188]I've stayed in hotel nutibara before but it's a bit expensive per night. It's nicer than I need. I am okay with a more basic room, what do you all suggest? I only need a bed, own bathroom and basic wifi (does not need to be rock solid).

Also, what are the going prices for street girls?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gabacho;2881179]It is implied that the police would arrest him. Or charge him with something in order to make him pay her the 200 mil otherwise what is to stop him from just refusing to pay anything and walking away?

The only thing the police can do is threaten to arrest him for not paying her otherwise he would just say no he isn't paying and they would be at a standstill. I mean how else could the police "make him pay her"? Are they going to take out their service weapons and point them at his head and threaten to shoot him. If he doesn't pay up?

And yes exactly I considered the driver asking me permission to buy beer and then have me pay him back as a breach of conduct. The platform is for providing transportation and the messaging function within the app for communicating with the drivers about pickup locations, wait times, etc. Not for panhandling customers for beer money, surely indriver must have a rule against this type of behavior and as far as I'm concerned he should have lost his ability to drive for the platform. Try asking people for beer money while working a a normal job in the US and see how long until you get fired.[/QUOTE]I remember a case in Costa-Rica about 10 or so years ago when two mongers from the US had misunderstanding with tica about the amount of compensation she was to receive for servicing both of them and refused to pay the money she was expecting. The two ended up spending 6 months in Costa-Rican jail before being allowed to return home. Naturally it ended up costing them 1,000+ time more than the difference in the amount too.

I don't know about anybody else but if I were to be detained by cops in South America I'd do whatever needs to be done to avoid being taken to the station, pay whatever is asked of me. Because once you there, the case might be bumped up to the 'matter of principal'. Once you begin to hear stuff like "If I were to do what you did in your country what do think would happen to me? " you're in deep doodoo. Naturally the embassy wouldn't do much to help a hobbyist beyond maybe serving as a messenger to your relatives, and chances are wouldn't be able to do much either even if it wanted to.

If police gets somehow involved in your dealings with puta I think it's better to pay what needs to be paid and get out of the situation right there and then. IMHO.

[QUOTE=Knowledge;2881155]My opinion, based on what experience I may have, is personal safety practices that have been effective for years will continue to be effective if they are applied consistently.[/QUOTE]This. I liken it to riding a motorcycle on a public highway. The moment you get "comfortable" is when your risk shoots way up. You have to always be aware and scanning the environment when you're in a situation where the stakes are higher.

In day time, Plaza Botero in El Centro and surrounding shopping streets have tens of not hundreds thousands people walking, eating, shopping. It's OK to walk, but when the night falls, the entire area are closed down, locked up, totally dark like hell with filthy hobos scurrying in the dark. Even policia are afraid to drive in after dark.

In day time, hundreds girls stand around Plaza Botero and in front of stores selling sex, but most were old and chunky, not my taste. At the NE corner of Carr 53 and Calle 51 behind the Iglesia de Vera Cruz, half a dozen hot girls hang out, a few nice, clean, very pretty. They took me to hotels a few doors away. $10 for girls and $2 for the room. Hotels check girls IDs and don't want to have problems with LEs so you are less likely to get robbed or things stolen.

I took pics of dozens girls hang out in front of the church front door step with policias and their patrol cars in the church yard. A WG was screaming and yelling at me. I threatened to call in policias. She did not shut up. 2 policia came to meet me. I told them I only took pictures of the church, nothing else. They were smiling. There are a few small signs "No Photos" on the streets. After some argument with my broken 1 YO Spanish, the sergeant took out his cuff. I told him he could delete the pics in my tel which he did. They looked at the pics with WG, church and patrol cars in the same shots, smiling broadly. They let me go. The loud girl kept squealing in front of the church so the came over talking to her. She did not stop. Eventually they cuffed her and put her in their patrol car.

Did see 2 policia on motorbike talking to a guy with a Sony webcam at that corner. After checking the camera, they cuffed and walked him down the street towards the Museum of Antiquity. Damn. I still have pics of girls, church, policias.

Areas around hotel Nutibara are busy with pedestrians and traffic at night, but don't ever think of walking around El Centro after dark.

[QUOTE=Nrlmus;2881235]I remember a case in Costa-Rica about 10 or so years ago when two mongers from the US had misunderstanding with tica about the amount of compensation she was to receive for servicing both of them and refused to pay the money she was expecting. The two ended up spending 6 months in Costa-Rican jail before being allowed to return home. Naturally it ended up costing them 1,000+ time more than the difference in the amount too.

I don't know about anybody else but if I were to be detained by cops in South America I'd do whatever needs to be done to avoid being taken to the station, pay whatever is asked of me. Because once you there, the case might be bumped up to the 'matter of principal'. Once you begin to hear stuff like "If I were to do what you did in your country what do think would happen to me? " you're in deep doodoo. Naturally the embassy wouldn't do much to help a hobbyist beyond maybe serving as a messenger to your relatives, and chances are wouldn't be able to do much either even if it wanted to.

If police gets somehow involved in your dealings with puta I think it's better to pay what needs to be paid and get out of the situation right there and then. IMHO.[/QUOTE]You just have to recall the infamous Secret Service incident in Colombia from the past as to what could happen when there is disagreement with the girl over money. Misunderstanding over money to be paid. Refusal to pay the money. Hotel yelling incident and police called. Heads rolling.

[QUOTE=Zenduka1;2881190]The vast majority of Hispanic immigrants are hard working individuals willing to take jobs you and your kind refuse to touch. I am sure the janitors in your company are Hispanics, 100%. Right now California is kept somewhat affordable because the cheap labor Hispanic immigrants provide.

Stop painting with a very wide brush and filter your language. Come on.[/QUOTE]I could not agree with you more. As a young teenager growing up on a farm in New Mexico there were illegals coming up from Mexico to work. There were all sorts of derogatory names people called them. My father used to hire them. It was customary 50+ years ago. I made some unsavory comment once and my father helped me see the light. He told me I could call them whatever I wanted but those men walked 600+ miles to work the fields and they sent almost everything they earned (other than food and drink costs) back to their family using Western Union. They worked whatever jobs were available, and instead of buying a bus ticket home they walked so as to save the money.

Flash forward 50 years, and I would ask the original poster if he ever stayed in a hotel? The maids are almost all Hispanic and they work two or three jobs to earn enough money to buy their children clothes and send them to school. The men are no different, working whatever jobs they can get. I somethings think we should allow more immigrants in and start kicking out the racist complainers, most of whom are lazy and do no work at all.

[QUOTE=Nrlmus;2881235]I remember a case in Costa-Rica about 10 or so years ago when two mongers from the US had misunderstanding with tica about the amount of compensation she was to receive for servicing both of them and refused to pay the money she was expecting. The two ended up spending 6 months in Costa-Rican jail before being allowed to return home. Naturally it ended up costing them 1,000+ time more than the difference in the amount too.

I don't know about anybody else but if I were to be detained by cops in South America I'd do whatever needs to be done to avoid being taken to the station, pay whatever is asked of me. Because once you there, the case might be bumped up to the 'matter of principal'. Once you begin to hear stuff like "If I were to do what you did in your country what do think would happen to me? " you're in deep doodoo. Naturally the embassy wouldn't do much to help a hobbyist beyond maybe serving as a messenger to your relatives, and chances are wouldn't be able to do much either even if it wanted to.

If police gets somehow involved in your dealings with puta I think it's better to pay what needs to be paid and get out of the situation right there and then. IMHO.[/QUOTE]Well if the chica has already provided services and then you are refusing to pay her then that is totally different. By all means you should pay the agreed upon amount.

However if you never even had sex then why would you be expected to pay her anything other than perhaps her transportation?