Tokyo

I had a plan since long to try out Hono-bono. And a few days ago I finally got a chance. I booked over the phone (in japanese) and my choice was Wakame. On the website she looks like my type of girl. I know of course that they edit the photos and the girls never look like the ones on the photo. But maybe I was to naive or just didn't realize what they can do with Photoshop nowadays but in no way I was prepared for what I got when I opened the door. I was totally shocked. She has at least 30 pounds more and she looks to say it in a nice way, not pretty. Lot's of tattos (which is not a problem) but she also smells bad! I guess she is a heavy smoker. We did some foreplay anyway but after maybe 20 minutes I just couldn't bare it any more and I complained of a headache and finished the session. I had some experiences in Tokyo and been to AM and UCLA, but Hono-bono is by far the worst experience I ever had and I just warn everyone to use them.Now I realize also why they accept foreigners and handicapped. I am pretty sure they don't get normal japanese customers otherwise and they believe foreigners don't complain.Next time I will go with grimpeur, ND or AM again. UCLA is also not bad but never ever again HB.

[QUOTE=OldAsiaHand]Gentlemen,As I see it, the system is very complicated. Correct me if I am wrong, but to an outsider, it looks like this is intentional either to get around the law and/or to scam the patrons. Most Japanese are non-confrontational thus the operators can probably get away with it. This is usually not the case with gaijin so the operators want to avoid any hassles or misunderstandings. It is too difficut to explain 20k for this, 20k for that, 3k for BBBJ, 2k to pick the girl, 10k because you are gaijin, etc. Most gaijin resent being charged more just because they are a gaijin. This applies to everything wherever they travel. Some gaijin get pissed off and create a scene, I have learned to just walk away and look elsewhere.OAH[/QUOTE]IMO, I am less likely to be scammed in Japan than elsewhere in asia. The web sites clearly indicate the prices and services, just not in English.

The language thing is a little more complicated. Mostly, if you've taken the time and trouble to learn the language you've probably also taken the time and trouble to understand the cultural norms. Some dumbass foreigners haven't done this and those people do pose a problem. These dumbasses are very few in number.I find many long time residents who don't really know Japanese very well to be in the same shape as an infrequent visitor who knows very little Japanese. The shops are just playing percentages by accepting Japanese who speak the language. It's a risk for them but they need the business. During the Bubble years they did not need our business so it was extremely difficult to get service back then.In general, foreigners get rejected because we are bad for business. If we were good for business, such as checking into a 5-star hotel where the staff speaks English and where they are used to foreigners then we have no trouble getting a room. Additionally, we are considered acceptable in these places so Japanese customers don't shy away because we foreigners may have stayed in the room before them. If you try to check into a very small business hotel in an obscure area way out in the suburbs you may have a little more trouble, both with the language and their racism. They may not want to rent you a room because you don't understand the system and other Japanese customers may not like the fact that we make a little more noise, take showers in the morning and other things that are outside of Japanese norms. The same goes for fuuzoku places. If we are bad for business then we are rejected. If we are not bad for business (I can't think of a case where we are good for business other than providing a less than optimal revenue source) then we may get service. It's as simple as that.If you consider Chinese esute, the downside of accepting us is far less. The Japanese clientele is going to expect a Chinese place to accept foreigners and it may or may not affect their willingness to go to a cheap Chinese esute.The bottom line is for us to not take it personally. It's just a business. It does have racism built into it but everywhere on the planet has a certain amount of local racism and it can't be avoided.You get service at AM because they are geared for foreigners and probably don't even have Japanese customers. You get service at NYNY because the quality of the lady is extremely low by Japanese standards and no Japanese guy below the age of 30 would even consider going there because he can get a better lady from a hitoduma (housewife) place so there isn't much risk in having foreigners there. You absolutely will not a get a young, cute Japanese lady at NYNY so their target customer is far different from the places we always get rejected from.The system is not complicated at all. If you don't have language skills then you need to delete a certain number of places from your pool. If you are of a certain ethnicity (some places don't like blacks, some don't like Chinese, some don't like Korean, some don't like Middle Easterners, etc., each for whatever reason) then you have to cut back further. What you are left with is often very slim pickings. As others have said, you can always find a Chinese esute for a reasonable price but you said you're not interested in that.If your budget can afford it then you should stick to high end soaps that service foreigners. The service is almost always superb and the ladies are almost always at least moderately attractive.[QUOTE=OldAsiaHand]Gentlemen,I appreciate all your feedbacks, suggestions and recommedations. I am starting to get the picture. I apologize if I am asking too many ignorant questions. Unfortunately, I have not had the luxury of spending as much time on the ground as many of you that live in Japan and speak the language have. Time contraints usually force me to seek out the "sure things" such as AM, Jan Jan, New York, New York and the like.As I see it, the system is very complicated. Correct me if I am wrong, but to an outsider, it looks like this is intentional either to get around the law and/or to scam the patrons. Most Japanese are non-confrontational thus the operators can probably get away with it. This is usually not the case with gaijin so the operators want to avoid any hassles or misunderstandings. It is too difficut to explain 20k for this, 20k for that, 3k for BBBJ, 2k to pick the girl, 10k because you are gaijin, etc. Most gaijin resent being charged more just because they are a gaijin. This applies to everything wherever they travel. Some gaijin get pissed off and create a scene, I have learned to just walk away and look elsewhere.The websites are confusing even when I use a translation site since a lot of it is slang and does not translate literally. Some seem to quote for a FS package while others have all the add ons. This is probably why the Playgirls's English site just says 70k for everything. It is much simpler and more palatable for gaijin to deal with.As Azure Knight suggested, if somebody could post a "Gaijin's Guide to Mongering in Japan", that would be fantastic. SammyT's comprehensive guide for Beijing on the China board is a very good example. Also, if somebody could supply Jackson with definitions of local acronyms and abbreviations, he could add them to the Abbreviations link.Just my POV.OAH[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Nakameguro97]Have you gone to Shibuya Grimpeur yet?BTW, Tobita is GREAT - I wish they had something like that here in Tokyo.[/QUOTE]Nakameguro97,Thanks for the tip. I've not tried it yet but I am staying in the Shibuya area next month. I've read mixed reports about the place but I will give it a go and hope for the best. I assume because FS is not on the menu it is not possible to ask at the counter if a girl provides it?I enjoy Tobita a lot too although my hit rate can be very low, between 5-30% depending on the time of day I am there. The earlier the better. That said, nearly all the hottest girls are usually off limits even though I get lucky from time to time.OAH

[QUOTE=Homer69]The language thing is a little more complicated. Mostly, if you've taken the time and trouble to learn the language you've probably also taken the time and trouble to understand the cultural norms. Some dumbass foreigners haven't done this and those people do pose a problem. These dumbasses are very few in number.[/QUOTE]After many years of traveling to and doing business in Japan, even having worked for a Japanese/American JV, although not based in Japan, I have learned something about Japanese cultural norms even though I do not speak Japanese.[QUOTE=Homer69] If you consider Chinese esute, the downside of accepting us is far less. The Japanese clientele is going to expect a Chinese place to accept foreigners and it may or may not affect their willingness to go to a cheap Chinese esute.As others have said, you can always find a Chinese esute for a reasonable price but you said you're not interested in that. [/QUOTE]I invite you guys to visit me in China where I would be honored to show you the ropes. You can have top quality, 8-9 level girls overnight for what you are paying for an hour with a 5-6 at best in Tokyo. Or, the same quality will provide 18 steps of total bliss for 2 solid hours in a high-end sauna for the same money. 5-7 quality is as cheap as 2k ST, even for gaijin. And, even then, the service will still be better than you get in the Chinese estute. And, you do not need to speak a word of Chinese for any of it.[QUOTE=Homer69] If your budget can afford it then you should stick to high end soaps that service foreigners. The service is almost always superb and the ladies are almost always at least moderately attractive.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately, my budget cannot afford 70k+ for lunch everyday but I am willing to try it out a few times to see if it is worth it. The most expensive soap I have been to was 20k. I like to have a balance. Sometimes I spoil myself with the top end whilst other times going for the down and dirty at the low end.OAH

[QUOTE=Zcorps]You get FS for this price. First it starts out with a mandatory bath, then they'll probably give you a smokejob. Then some mat play, the girls covers you and her in a thick lube, and she starts massaging you with her body and than transitions into another bj followed by some covered FS. After that you'll probably get more FS if you can manage it. If you search red tube for japanese massage, you're basically getting that. It's a unique experience for sure.[/QUOTE]Zcorps,Thanks for the clarification. Sounds pretty close to a Thai MP, "B Course" as they call it minus the thick lube. Same type of service is available in most of Asia with a slightly different spin to it.Just my POV.OAH

[QUOTE=Nemics]Hi,I searched the Forum, but did not found any feedback about Asuka from AM.So I would like to ask if there is any experience with her?Thanks for the feedback!Nemics[/QUOTE]There are some positive reports on her on Tokyo Pink Guide.

Ronin 7788I think you just happened to make a bad choice of Wakame. That particular photo of her has been posted for a long time, so it may be that she has put on the extra poundage since it was taken. I notice she regularly works the late night shift so, and a lot of them, so the stress of doing that probably has affected her living habits.I have tried HB only one time and that particular girl showed up with more extra padding than the photo, but she was also on a heavy work schedule and has since left.So you might reconsider HB....watch the site on a daily basis and observe the girls who don't work that often. They might be your best bet because they are fresher and less stressed. I check in on the site almost every day just for fun.Jam and Rika look interesting to me. I wonder if anyone has tried either.

Personally, as a foreigner I would not ask for FS. The code is AF, but then you may get one that doesn't do FS and will insist on AF.Grimpeur is hit or miss because many of the best ladies will not take foreigners. It is a legal (as far as I know) hotel health now so that means its licensed and FS is not part of the offering. If you get FS its going to have to be between you and the lady.[QUOTE=OldAsiaHand]Nakameguro97,Thanks for the tip. I've not tried it yet but I am staying in the Shibuya area next month. I've read mixed reports about the place but I will give it a go and hope for the best. I assume because FS is not on the menu it is not possible to ask at the counter if a girl provides it?I enjoy Tobita a lot too although my hit rate can be very low, between 5-30% depending on the time of day I am there. The earlier the better. That said, nearly all the hottest girls are usually off limits even though I get lucky from time to time.OAH[/QUOTE]

Where in China? Who are the best (most knowledgeable, most practical, etc.) ISG references in the Shanghai and Beijing forums (besides yourself)?[QUOTE=OldAsiaHand] I invite you guys to visit me in China where I would be honored to show you the ropes. You can have top quality, 8-9 level girls overnight for what you are paying for an hour with a 5-6 at best in Tokyo. Or, the same quality will provide 18 steps of total bliss for 2 solid hours in a high-end sauna for the same money. 5-7 quality is as cheap as 2k ST, even for gaijin. And, even then, the service will still be better than you get in the Chinese estute. And, you do not need to speak a word of Chinese for any of it.OAH[/QUOTE]

Okay - most of this message is directed towards OAH, but posted for the benefit of all.1. In general, Japanese as a society, is a little "system-crazy". There are rules and conventions for everything. This includes the various types of fuzoku. There are special pricing conventions for soap, hotel health, pink salons, delivery health, massage-with-finish, etc... FS is illegal, and almost always, the counter will deny and insist no FS. Sometimes, this is really the case, and they will deny you service if you ask about FS. In others, not. With Shibuya Grimpeur, I have read on ISG that the guy at the counter actually told him who provided AF, but YMMV. It is safest to consult with ISG or someone who has used that particular service. As for Grimpeur, the default hotel is a dump, and the service is random, but for the price you pay, it is cheap to have a chance at a hottie. IMHO, sumata is not bad at all, so for me at least, FS is not so important here - I just want a young Japanese hottie when I go there. With all the services in Japan, the more conditions you insist on, the more expensive it gets and the more research you have to do to find a place that satisfies all your conditions. There are many foreigners who live here who still have to compromise in one way or another. I agree with you that most of the systems are unnecessarily complicated, but it is what it is.To me, the hit-or-miss is not that foreigners get a worse choice - foreigners will only get the ones where the girl doesn't mind being with a foreigner. There are still good ones to be had. The hit-or-miss is in the quality of service and whether you end up with FS or not.2. In general, pricing in Japan is crazy relative to most other places. In terms of value, I'd much rather go to certain areas in the South of China rather than spend my money in Tokyo. However, there are exceptions. In particular, I like some higher level pink salons and some legitimate massage-with-finish places, which probably have no comparison elsewhere, in terms of service. My personal measure is, do I feel like I got ripped off after the service? If you've never tried soap, it's good to try it once, but I think for most people, unless you are very wealthy or inexperienced mongering, will experience monger's regret at paying outrageous sums of cash. I know OAH is experienced so maybe he'd try it once or twice, but I am certain he would compare versus his experiences elsewhere.3. WRT Tobita, I have never met you, OAH, but I am rather certain that your hit rate there should be much higher. Japanese tend to be very appearance-oriented, even more so in Tokyo than in Osaka. The general idea is, if you can dress and appear to be a local, your chances are much better. If you can speak a few words in Japanese, your chances are better. How hot the girl is makes no difference. I have only been to Tobita a few times, but I have never been rejected.4. In answer to the previous question, she was shaved, and yes, she is better looking in person - not as heavily made-up and dressed professionally. Big eyes and beautiful skin. Unfortunately, not really into the work, but she has a happy personality. At this price, no complaints from me.

[QUOTE=Nakameguro97]Okay. Most of this message is directed towards OAH, but posted for the benefit of all.1. In general, Japanese as a society, is a little "system-crazy". There are rules and conventions for everything. This includes the various types of fuzoku. There are special pricing conventions for soap, hotel health, pink salons, delivery health, massage-with-finish, etc. FS is illegal, and almost always, the counter will deny and insist no FS. Sometimes, this is really the case, and they will deny you service if you ask about FS. In others, not. With Shibuya Grimpeur, I have read on ISG that the guy at the counter actually told him who provided AF, but YMMV. It is safest to consult with ISG or someone who has used that particular service. As for Grimpeur, the default hotel is a dump, and the service is random, but for the price you pay, it is cheap to have a chance at a hottie. IMHO, sumata is not bad at all, so for me at least, FS is not so important here. I just want a young Japanese hottie when I go there. With all the services in Japan, the more conditions you insist on, the more expensive it gets and the more research you have to do to find a place that satisfies all your conditions. There are many foreigners who live here who still have to compromise in one way or another. I agree with you that most of the systems are unnecessarily complicated, but it is what it is.To me, the hit-or-miss is not that foreigners get a worse choice. Foreigners will only get the ones where the girl doesn't mind being with a foreigner. There are still good ones to be had. The hit-or-miss is in the quality of service and whether you end up with FS or not.2. In general, pricing in Japan is crazy relative to most other places. In terms of value, I'd much rather go to certain areas in the South of China rather than spend my money in Tokyo. However, there are exceptions. In particular, I like some higher level pink salons and some legitimate massage-with-finish places, which probably have no comparison elsewhere, in terms of service. My personal measure is, do I feel like I got ripped off after the service? If you've never tried soap, it's good to try it once, but I think for most people, unless you are very wealthy or inexperienced mongering, will experience monger's regret at paying outrageous sums of cash. I know OAH is experienced so maybe he'd try it once or twice, but I am certain he would compare versus his experiences elsewhere.4. In answer to the previous question, she was shaved, and yes, she is better looking in person. Not as heavily made-up and dressed professionally. Big eyes and beautiful skin. Unfortunately, not really into the work, but she has a happy personality. At this price, no complaints from me.[/QUOTE]Thanks a lot and very much agreed, except thigh or ball massage in Macau should beat the massage parlor in Japan. Like Japan, the system is complicated, officially, they can't give you the finish, but with more sessions, it is always possible.In Grimpeur, AF was on the menu until few months ago. Kazumi in Grimpeur still does AF. She has a great attitude and good and keen service. AF itself is not among the best though, probably not the best ass, that's all.Will try Rina soon!

[QUOTE=Homer69]Where in China? Who are the best (most knowledgeable, most practical, etc.) ISG references in the Shanghai and Beijing forums (besides yourself)?[/QUOTE]Homer69,I am S. China based where P4P is the best value. In Shangai, it would be Blacklisted and Mockabee, Ace Gallant if he is in town. In Beijing, it would be SammyT, Zhuren and Bad Boy Billy but Billy is not based in Beijing. Prices in Beijing a little higher than the rest of China. Send me a PM if you are coming over and I will hook you up.OAH

[QUOTE=Nakameguro97]3. WRT Tobita, I have never met you, OAH, but I am rather certain that your hit rate there should be much higher. Japanese tend to be very appearance-oriented, even more so in Tokyo than in Osaka. The general idea is, if you can dress and appear to be a local, your chances are much better. If you can speak a few words in Japanese, your chances are better. How hot the girl is makes no difference. I have only been to Tobita a few times, but I have never been rejected. [/QUOTE]I agree. I get more "dozo" with a suit on then wearing a pair of jeans. My hit rate may be higher if I approached more shops. I normally just walk around waiting to be called in. I never approach the shop without the "dozo". I get the feeling that they are taking gaijin to fill in the low business periods. When there are many Japanese punters around later in the evening, my hit rate goes down a lot. What time do you normally go?OAH

I just tried SW-SP and they said no gaijin, even says so on the website. So I tried Komachi and the guy said no on Aira and one other girl I asked about. He said some girls are OK but he wouldn`t know until they showed up. My Japanese is not a problem and they guy didn`t know until he asked for name and address. Just curious, but did you use them recently?[QUOTE=Evan Stoner]I have had good luck at Shinagawa Komachi and its sister shops:[url]http://www.s-komachi.jp/[/url][url]http://www.sw-sp.jp/[/url][url]http://www.s-hana.jp/[/url][url]http://www.s-chaya.jp/[/url]Many of these girls are gravure/AV-level hot, and some are even gravure girls e.g. Aira ([url]http://www.s-komachi.jp/profile_513.html[/url]) who I've had several times. I am a non-Asian foreigner but my Japanese is fluent. I have never gotten The Question over the phone ("お客様、外人さんですか？") although it is not 100% clear this is because they don't realize I am a foreigner or because they don't care. The great thing is, once you phone in an appointment and complete it successfully once, they recognize your number on subsequent calls and the level of due diligence on their part falls considerably. You can even schedule subsequent appointments via the web, further reducing the risk of getting caught out as a non-Japanese over the phone.[/QUOTE]