Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus!

[QUOTE=Turgid;2590984]In 2017 to 2018 over a period of 12 months between 291,000 and 646,000 people worldwide died from seasonal influenza. Covid 19 has over a period of 18 months killed over 4,000,000 people. Perhaps that's the reason governments are going berserk at the moment.[/QUOTE]They died WITH Covid, not by Covid.

It is also about people +75 years with underlying fatal diseases, who would have died in any case within a few months.

No autopsies have been performed by the actual cause of death.

There are examples of severe influenza, e.g. in 1993 if I remember correctly, which took significantly more casualties than those you state.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2590984]In 2017 to 2018 over a period of 12 months between 291,000 and 646,000 people worldwide died from seasonal influenza. Covid 19 has over a period of 18 months killed over 4,000,000 people. Perhaps that's the reason governments are going berserk at the moment.[/QUOTE]I think that 4 million amount is almost certainly understated. Our India analyst was saying that deaths were way higher than whatever the government was reporting in April, May and June months. Indian government was saying 4,000 to 5,000 were dying daily but in her field checks, the true amount was in the range of 100,000 to 150,000 on a daily basis and she had tons of field checks to back her analysis. That wave lasted several weeks. It is possible that a few million died in India alone in a couple of months. That same situation might be the case in several emerging markets. And almost certainly, CCP numbers about China are quite bogus and are possibly total fabrications. Reports now say Covid was circulating from September of 2019, if not earlier. If CCP had leaked it intentionally, it was a question of what was a tolerable death count before they shut down and dumped it on the rest of this world in their genocidal thirst.

[QUOTE=NiteRiderCal;2590785]For younger people, you already know my concern. But I will list it out again.

You finally stop comparing covid vax (laughably suck vax) with transmission reduction of polio / measles vaccine (a real vaccine). This lead to increase mutation, evolutionary pressure will lead to immune escape. Now, the UK SAGE admitted they are concern about high vaccination rate will lead to immune escape.

The vax fuck up innate antibody against future variant in young people. If this vax can reduce the R0 like polio / measles vaccine, than who care about innate antibody. But it suck.

A vaccine race war may lead to antigenic imprinting. It may take a few / several years but imprinting will render all future vaccine and adaptive immunity worthless.

Lastly, the risk of covid in young healthy people is low, it is a common cold. Sure, the vaxx will help, but there is a unknown long term risk. Why put this group in harm way, when they don't have much in term of benefit.[/QUOTE]Now I get your game, you take hypotheses as facts and facts as hypotheses depending on your preference and personal delusions! Good strategy but you still sound ridiculous!

[QUOTE=Arnold15;2590909]Yes, Covid is much more contagious than the flu. And history has shown that there is a negative correlation between infectivity and mortality. A virus that kills its host does not have time infect others. Thus, Covid has LOW mortality.

Leading researchers in the world (John Ioannidis and Jay Bhattacharya, Stanford) have calculated that the mortality rate (dead / infected) is about 0. 2 - 0. 3 percent. So the same level as a serious annual flu.

And for this, politicians in England, France, Italy and Spain have wanted to destroy entire societies and destroy the future of our young generations - without any success.
Mortality by covid has nothing to do with the restrictions, but is rather linked to the state of health and age among the population.

Despite the high level of contagion, stupid politicians (Australia, China) have believed that the virus can be eradicated or eliminated. Now we know it did not work.[/QUOTE]There's what we want to believe then there's reality. These "leading researchers" are making claims not backed by population level numbers and certainly not what most clinicians are seeing.

Comparing to the flu is still a foley as they are different disease processes. Transmissaabilty and mortality correlation is generally correct but is not concrete, for mutation within a specific virus that adage applies, but certainly not when comparing different virii. Like I said, covid is more infectious but it also has a longer latent period. That's the problem, more infectious, longer latent equals less able to detect, detain, and control.

This is the problem with the internet. Everyone thinks they are experts or have access to the most trustworthy information when the average person either doesn't know how or have the desire to actually vet their sourced or be bothered to understand complex fields.

Arnold: the correlation between infectivity and mortality is nonsensical bogus. For one, it shows that scientists are lacking data in every situation. Especially most likely when mortality rates are high, but also currently when the test kits are bogus themselves. But also it forgets the link to our natural immune system, by how we need our immune system to be in constant on-mode in order to have a strong functioning defence. And lastly, it forgets about the Spanish flu, and the diseases Europeans brought over to America.

[QUOTE=Mursenary;2591029]This is the problem with the internet. Everyone thinks they are experts or have access to the most trustworthy information when the average person either doesn't know how or have the desire to actually vet their sourced or be bothered to understand complex fields.[/QUOTE]Your mirror posts are sometimes hilarious to read. You should start with stand up comedy! I think I have counted a few dousing posts in the last year now where you project others in the image of yourself. Geez. Your NPC programmer is really doing a poor job.

I went to Spain fucked 8 hookers and now I have been back home for a few days ready to take my second dose of the vaccine tomorrow and no signs of any covid-19.

If the vaccine is so great why are so many countries requiring visitors to get a PCR-test? Maybe the vaccine is not so great after all.

I'm already making plans for my next trip in November / December, of my top 5 destinations Brazil, UAE and Azerbajdzjan require a pcr-test, Morocco depending on what country I transit through and Colombia is Open to all travelers. It makes me regret getting vaccinated, I thought it would be my ticket back to normal.

[QUOTE=RockyV;2590920]In a pandemic our 'Greek elders' are the WHO, CDC, EMA and similar independent regulatory medical bodies. It is so frustrating when people say 'Do your own research and you will see' as if a 30 min google search would replace years of study and research of people working at the WHO, CDC and EMA. The vaccines have been shown to significantly lower hospitalization, mortality and transmission rates and that's what counts to come out of this pandemic. Following the scientific advice of scientists and medical doctors in a pandemic has nothing to do with democracy. Of course, governments need to strike a balance between the scientific advice and the economy but countries that ignored the scientific advice at the start of the pandemic (Brazil, USA, UK and India) have experienced the highest death toll. South Korea never had a proper lockdown because people complied with the rules and Japan, one of the most populated advanced economies, has had a death toll 10-times lower than UK. I know you are a highly educated individual and it shows from the way you write, but as you trust the experts in other fields please trust those people who have spent years researching and studying infectious diseases. Most of the time infectious disease researchers are very passionate people and they dedicate their lives to fight against new dangerous viruses or bacteria. Dr. Tse Yuen-man (HK Hospital) and Dr Carlo Urbani (WHO), who discovered the first SARS virus were perfectly aware of the dangerous nature of the virus and they both died from contracting the disease while researching how the virus worked and replicated. In what other fields people are ready to sacrifice their lives for advancing scientific knowledge?[/QUOTE]Spoken as a true demagogue, why do you ignore the fact that India, USA and Brazil are among the most populated countries on Earth? You're using a bad metric, you should be talking about most deaths per capita. But of course that wouldn't fit your agenda considering the fact that none of the countries you mentioned are among the five countries with most deaths per capita.

Also, India took the pandemic extremely seriously in the beginning. The Police even attacked people going to buy food.

Its interesting to see how you got nothing to say about Peru or Mexico.

[QUOTE=Arnold15;2591012]There are examples of severe influenza, e.g. in 1993 if I remember correctly, which took significantly more casualties than those you state.[/QUOTE]They died with the flu, not from the flu. No autopsies have been performed, maybe they died from appendicitis. Or spontaneous combustion.

[URL]https://eu.news-journalonline.com/story/news/local/2021/08/09/daytona-beach-radio-host-marc-bernier-hospitalized-covid-19/5538844001/[/URL]

One more to go!

[QUOTE=HammerTime96;2591004]That's because now they count everybody who dies with comorbidities as "covid19 death."

In the UK they even counted anyone who died after a positive Covid test as a "Covid death. " Die in a motorcycle crash or a car accident? "Covid!" Died of a heart attack? Covid! Died of cancer? Covid!

[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53722711[/URL]

Also in the US they tried every trick in the book to manipulate "Covid deaths" upwards:

[URL]https://wpde.com/news/nation-world/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-crash-counted-as-covid-19-death-in-florida-report-07-18-2020[/URL]

The "hospitalization rate" was also heavily manipulated. People showing up with in the hospital ER with a broken leg or chest pain were tested for "Covid," and if they tested positive then they suddenly ended up as "hospitalized because of Covid:.[/QUOTE]Also, as they rolled out the vaccine, they changed the PCR cycle threshold to make the vaccine look good. To make it seem as the vaccine prevent infection. Now, they have to admit that it can not prevent infection and the vaccinated also are spreading covid. So, they changes the goal post to it prevent death and hospitalization.

While a drug cost 1 $ is way better than the vax in its ability to prevent infection. If they wanted to they can use this cheap drug to wipe out and eradicate the pandemic. But time is running out on the option.

[QUOTE=HammerTime96;2590981]"Covid1984" the disease that develops from the SARS-CoV-2 virus (if it even exists in the first place, because this alleged "virus" hasn't even been isolated in a laboratory) is perfectly treatable, but the politicians and Big Pharma rather let hundreds of thousands of intubated patients die on ICU wards so they can push their vaccines and vaccine passports.[/QUOTE]Yes, I've seen it with my own eyes patients asking for a sip of bleach to cure their covid infection in hospitals, while doctors and nurses kept giving them oxygen to breath! Unbelievable, everybody knows we don't need oxygen to breath, I once put my head under water for almost a minute and I survived. There is the evidence we don't need oxygen to breath.

[QUOTE=HammerTime96;2590981]They don't care about "science" or "people's health. " If that was true, why have you been able to buy cigarettes for the last 20-30 years since we know that smoking poses a serious health risk They only care about pushing their sick totalitarian 'population control' ideology, that's why "they" get so nervous when other scientists disagree or discover an effective and cheap way to treat patients.[/QUOTE]Exactly, I don't know why they can still allow people to buy alcohol, guns, knives, Mac Donald's, sugar, salt. They perfectly know this stuff kills people. The governments should ban all the unhealthy stuff, so that we can get angry with them and call them communists.

Again, sweetie, don't go near sharp things and do not play in the streets after dark, ok?

[QUOTE=Mursenary;2591029]This is the problem with the internet. Everyone thinks they are experts or have access to the most trustworthy information when the average person either doesn't know how or have the desire to actually vet their sourced or be bothered to understand complex fields.[/QUOTE]The biggest problem is that politicians have introduced restrictions and lockdowns in the belief that this is effective. Such lockdowns have never been undertaken before in history.
Thus, the entire burden of proof lies on those who want to lockdown.

No cost-benefit analysis has ever been performed.

And there is still no evidence that lockdowns have been efficient in any way.

The restrictions have had gigantic negative externalities on the national economy (unemployment, bankruptcies, rampant government debt), democratic freedoms and rights and not least public health (increased abuse, mental illness, physical inactivity).

Locking people up in their homes for a long time has catastrophic consequences for mental health. But it was nothing that neither the virologists, the journalists nor the politicians have ever understood.

Nor "the average person" in this thread.

[QUOTE=RockyV;2590920]In a pandemic our 'Greek elders' are the WHO, CDC, EMA and similar independent regulatory medical bodies. It is so frustrating when people say 'Do your own research and you will see' as if a 30 min google search would replace years of study and research of people working at the WHO, CDC and EMA. The vaccines have been shown to significantly lower hospitalization, mortality and transmission rates and that's what counts to come out of this pandemic. Following the scientific advice of scientists and medical doctors in a pandemic has nothing to do with democracy. Of course, governments need to strike a balance between the scientific advice and the economy but countries that ignored the scientific advice at the start of the pandemic (Brazil, USA, UK and India) have experienced the highest death toll. South Korea never had a proper lockdown because people complied with the rules and Japan, one of the most populated advanced economies, has had a death toll 10-times lower than UK. I know you are a highly educated individual and it shows from the way you write, but as you trust the experts in other fields please trust those people who have spent years researching and studying infectious diseases. Most of the time infectious disease researchers are very passionate people and they dedicate their lives to fight against new dangerous viruses or bacteria. Dr. Tse Yuen-man (HK Hospital) and Dr Carlo Urbani (WHO), who discovered the first SARS virus were perfectly aware of the dangerous nature of the virus and they both died from contracting the disease while researching how the virus worked and replicated. In what other fields people are ready to sacrifice their lives for advancing scientific knowledge?[/QUOTE]I have no interest in getting involved in all these endless debates about pandemic.

My point was strictly about the Spock quote.

As a techie, I am also a Trekkie and Spock was a hero growing up.

But, it is also a borderline communist quote.

In western societies, we have individual freedoms. The rights of every individual are paramount. The surest way an autocratic government can take away the rights of an individual is by arguing that the individual should sacrifice his / her rights in the interest of many.

And the people who ask such a sacrifice of others always ask it of others; they never sacrifice those rights themselves. But even that is besides the point. Whether you sacrifice your own rights or not, you have no right to demand another individual to sacrifice and give up his god and constitution granted rights.

Spock gave up his life in the interests of many. That is an individual choice he made. He did not ask someone else to sacrifice.

And the smoking in common areas is a bad example / analogy. An individual is not sacrificing his right to smoke by giving up smoking in common areas. By smoking in common areas, you are taking away the right to live from another individual. Our constitution never said individual rights include the right to take away the rights of other individuals.

[QUOTE=RockyV;2590920]In a pandemic our 'Greek elders' are the WHO, CDC, EMA and similar independent regulatory medical bodies. It is so frustrating when people say 'Do your own research and you will see' as if a 30 min google search would replace years of study and research of people working at the WHO, CDC and EMA. The vaccines have been shown to significantly lower hospitalization, mortality and transmission rates and that's what counts to come out of this pandemic. Following the scientific advice of scientists and medical doctors in a pandemic has nothing to do with democracy. Of course, governments need to strike a balance between the scientific advice and the economy but countries that ignored the scientific advice at the start of the pandemic (Brazil, USA, UK and India) have experienced the highest death toll. South Korea never had a proper lockdown because people complied with the rules and Japan, one of the most populated advanced economies, has had a death toll 10-times lower than UK. I know you are a highly educated individual and it shows from the way you write, but as you trust the experts in other fields please trust those people who have spent years researching and studying infectious diseases. Most of the time infectious disease researchers are very passionate people and they dedicate their lives to fight against new dangerous viruses or bacteria. Dr. Tse Yuen-man (HK Hospital) and Dr Carlo Urbani (WHO), who discovered the first SARS virus were perfectly aware of the dangerous nature of the virus and they both died from contracting the disease while researching how the virus worked and replicated. In what other fields people are ready to sacrifice their lives for advancing scientific knowledge?[/QUOTE]BTW, against my better judgement I am going to say this because I did not want to get involved in these pandemic, vaccination fights. But it is absurd to blame poor countries like Brazil, India and others for "ignoring the scientific advice" as you phrased it. Brazil is a large country but the population density in the big metros and favelas is quite high. In India, it is extreme all over the country as I understand it, and judging by 1.3 billion people in a country a third or fourth the area of US, the density must be extreme all over. Also, most people live in poverty or somewhere in that range. Most of the population in these poor nations don't have pantries stocked with food, they don't "work from home". "If you don't work on a day, you don't eat" said our analyst who covers these markets. Even in developed countries, the percent of jobs that can be done by sheltering in, in a socially distanced manner are less than half; in poor countries, that percent is a miniscule. And all these apply to Lagos or Johannesberg, or Tehran or any other 3rd world metro.

[QUOTE=Arnold15;2591087]The biggest problem is that politicians have introduced restrictions and lockdowns in the belief that this is effective. Such lockdowns have never been undertaken before in history.
Thus, the entire burden of proof lies on those who want to lockdown.[/QUOTE]Isaac Newton made several key discoveries, while in lockdown during the Great Plague in 1665-6 ([URL]https://www.cam.ac.uk/alumni/life-in-lockdown[/URL]). Shakespeare wrote King Lear while under lockdown during plague (1605-6). The Adriatic port city of Ragusa (modern-day Dubrovnik) was the first to pass legislation in 1377, requiring the mandatory quarantine of all incoming ships and trade caravans in order to screen for infection.

[URL]https://pmj.bmj.com/content/96/1140/633[/URL]

Centuries later and some delusional people prefer to ignore the facts and believe in whatever QAnon feed them or to a guy that truly believes Queen Elizabeth II is indeed a reptilian.