General Info

Hey Peter,

"The integration of women and minorities in the economy has been done much better in the US."

Is this really so? I have not seen any stats on this of late but I am not so sure that it is as bad as you make it. Compared to you I live in a small city in Germany. Still it is the German equivalent to a "County Seat" and there is a good sized population here with a significant population of foreigner. The Auslaender population pumps quite a bit of money into the economy both through taxes and commerce. As far as women in the workplace goes, that can be deceptive when you consider the cultural and social differences between the US and Germany. It has been my observation that Germans take "family values" (the need to get married and have children) much more seriously than Americans. Therefore per capita there may be more "stay at home" moms than in the US. Also things like Kindergeld and other social program make it a bit easier for wives and moms to not work if they choose to. For the single or career minded German woman, can we really say that there are more barriers and glass ceilings than in the US? It certainly seems that every week in the "Spiegel", "Focus" or "Die Zeit" there are one or more portrait of a female German CEO. The monthly Deutsche Bahn Magazine that you see in any ICE had a number of women execs on the cover this year and last. I cannot comment on the numbers, but the image in the German press seems to be encouraging. Again, I have no statistics to back any of this up. These are just my observations.


"And the soccer games he is talking about involve monkey noises, swastikas and throwing bananas on the field. Please tell me the sport where this happens in America."

A New York Mets or Cincinnati Reds baseball game. Or the "Bum-fights" that seem to be pretty popular with those yahoos from the red states.


"The multiple language thing is a misnomer as well. Most people can speak a passable english, but definitely not good enough to pass a TOEFL test. The only place where this is not true is Sweden and Holland, where they really do speak other languages like english well."

True, German linguistic prowess may be a tad over-rated, especially compared to the Scandinavians, the Dutch and the Swiss. Still I am not sure that we can fairly compare the average German's multi-language abilities with the average American's. Again, this may be due to cultural differences and priorities, but in a German Gymnasium, Realschule, or even a Hauptschule you will not finish without having studied a Fremdsprache. In the US this is not compulsory in many places. Also, I use to live in two US states where the Latin population was more than significant and I did not see a preponderance of gringos who could get their tongues around the Spanish language.

"Most germans I know are not fluent in anything other than German, maybe 200 words of english and 100 words of spanish which they use on vacation."

Again, that may not be much, but it body-slams what most America tourists that I meet are capable of. How much translating do you have to do when hanging out with other Yanks at FKKs?

"The geography thing is not what it used to be either. The germans have performed horribly in the last few years in the PISA test of schools throughout the world. The univerisities are sadly a shambles too."

Can't argue with that one. This has been a pretty huge issue in the press for some years now. It will be interesting to see what, if any changes are made to improve the situation.

"Maybe compared to a couple of rednecks in one of the Red States the europeans might look like a complete contrast, but compared to well educated people on the coasts they really are not more impressive."

Also true, and you have probably met as many Deutscher rednecks as I have. Bright, intelligent people abound in both countries, just as do the yahoos and flatheads.

All the best,

Dedalus

"I can name you at least 6 clubs that will not grant minorities entrance into clubs. I have been asked by some clubs to not bring my Indian friends by as the girls complain about it."


Which clubs don't allow foriegners in? I doubt its Bernd's, I remember seeing the guys from CFIT over there, and there were Asian and Black guys with them.

"Europeans in general are far more friendly than Americans."
Aki, if you are psychic, please tell this to my dead girlfriend, half Turkish and half German, she died in a car wreck. The reason she was attracted to me because I was the kind hearted American guy that didn't care about her ethnic makeup, and saw her simply as a gorgeous, kind hearted, woman. We connected and met outside the club because she felt that I was kinder and gentler to her than most local men, and it was something new for her. So what you say isn't neccesarily true, I'm from New York, there are a lot of nasty characters where I am from, I just don't happen to be one of them. There's a Clark Kent for every Lex Luthor.

"Europeans in general are far more friendly than Americans."
Aki, if you are psychic, please tell this to my dead girlfriend, half Turkish and half German, she died in a car wreck. The reason she was attracted to me because I was the kind hearted American guy that didn't care about her ethnic makeup, and saw her simply as a gorgeous, kind hearted, woman. We connected and met outside the club because she felt that I was kinder and gentler to her than most local men, and it was something new for her. So what you say isn't neccesarily true, I'm from New York, there are a lot of nasty characters where I am from, I just don't happen to be one of them. There's a Clark Kent for every Lex Luthor.[/QUOTE]

Since I have not visited the smaller cities in Europe or the US, I can not say conclusively that Americans are less friendly. But I can say my experience suggest so. I have met strangers and have been invited to their homes. How often does that happen in the US? I also know others who have been invited to many of the local events in small towns. I think in general, people of all countries like to escape the confinements of their local biases. There is always a curiosity with good looking foreigners. Plus, we are usually on our best behavior. You use your experience to put down Europeans. I would view the behavior of your girlfriend as as example of friendly Europeans. I have encountered many women who are quite friendly and have given me phone numbers. This has never happens in the US despite the fact that I treat the women with the same level of respect.


REgarding the comments made about Australia, I find most to be false. This country is one of the most racists around. I based this from friends who have actually visited and reports by experts. For years, they have prohibited Asian immigration. Even immigrants have mainly been from England and Ireland until recently.

I actually live in Australia currently, and it is not racist at all, the Asian population is sizeable here, and it is not uncommon to see them. Most of the Asians where I live are well to do, live in nice homes, and drive nice cars(a 20 year old Asian kid nearly skinned me with his brand new BMW). If you compare Asian Australians to Turks or other ethnics in Germany, the Asians in Australia are much better off and live a better quality of life.



Akibono, an African American friend of mine who visited Tokyo had some rather unpleasant experiences getting into brothels in Tokyo. He's visited several German clubs with no problems, but was flat out denied in Tokyo.

Aki, if you compare the general population of a large German city(Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, etc.) the people in those cities are probably more open than people in New York or another super size US city(Chicago, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, etc.). That was one thing that I noticed was that people behave a lot differently in many different situations and keep their head cool. There are pricks galore in New York City, I have to admit that, that's why I left and moved 9000 miles away. You might be right that Australians are ignorant and often dumb, when I told people I moved to Oz from New York people would look at me and say "Why would you move here? Will all the action and things to do in New York? Are you crazy??" All that action and activity in New York costs money, a lot of it, and life in the NY is a big headache, and can be quite stressful. Most Germans are generally wiser and more intelligent than your average Australian and know what a hellhole NY can be.

This has actuaslly been an interesting non sex discussion here.

I think we can all agree that people in Europe and America have ample examples of highly educated and friendly people, as well as morons.

About the clubs that do not allow foreigners in (Not sure how it applies to Asians, maybe they are an exception, but Turkish, Black, or East Indians definitely will have trouble being let in) there are quite a few. When the clubs advertise "Unter Deutsche Leitung" that means they have a discriminatory policy.

check out [url]http://www.fkk-200nackedeis.de/index2.html[/url] and see which clubs say that. They also have some clubs intended specifically for the minorities. I also know that the Cocoon, Tropicana Ali Baba people sometimes turn Turks away (when it is busy) and send themt o Ali Baba which was intended for them. There are girls who like going with turkish guests. There are a lot of girls who don't for various reasons. A lot of girls only want to work at clubs that have a discriminatroy door policy. If the club doesn't they still won't go to the room with every nationality.

Hate to hijack the thread but I can't seem to find any other way to share with my fellow hobbyist' s my impressions two weeks shy of the one year anniversary of my first visit to World.

That visit coupled with Oase, Palace, and Golden Time has made life enjoyable here. I have had some bad experiences but have the safety net of semi annual returns to Thailand on FFM from Frankfurt.

Here is what I have learned in life and though it may be trite the expression "you rent exotic cars. planes, boats and woman" still applies. PFP provides me with what I want out of a woman, without all the fake crap that relationships require or more importantly the lack of variety, not to mention cost, of marriage.

At a FKK club if the girl was OK out in the main room but turns out to be a dud in the Zimmer that is the luck of the draw. And it only cost you 50 Euros to find out

FKK clubs are hit and miss. I have read about it, experienced it, and learned from it. On any given night even the best club can be a disaster since you cannot control the variables that lend themselves to a great or bad night at any club. Some nights when clubs are busy they can be better than a slow night with all the choices you want. And vice versa.

Sometimes the girls are in a lousy mood because of not enough business and other times they are lousy because business is so good they can just churn and make more money.

Also the trinity here in Frankfurt constantly fluctuates on which is the best club at any given moment. Palace can be hot and World can be on a temporary down swing, while Oase can be mediocre, or loaded with talent. Add the day of the week and time of the day into the equation and it's a wonder that there are not more bad nights.

I will admit that I have it better than most since I live in FKK land and have a car. The only limits that I have on my visits are purely financial and occasionally the job. So unlike my fellow mongers that come here to hit Oase, World, and Palace to make the most of their time I don't have those restraints.

Thank goodness I don't. Because I have finally learned the secret to enjoying the FKK clubs,at least for me, is not to push my luck. Every time that I have pushed picking the girl just because I had to get in as many sessions as possible to make up for my 65 Euro entrance fee I have lost. So now I quit when I am ahead.

If I have a great session with a girl, who fits my physical and sexual preferences, makes me feel that she is enjoying the session, and gives me a GFE. I have gotten my moneys worth and why gamble 50 Euros more and end the night with a lousy session that inevitably diminishes the good session.

Add to the fact that I am 57 years old and I just can't recover quick enough to keep going it's obvious to me that the cut and run approach appears to be the best for me.

I still prefer the Thailand scene better because GFE is almost guaranteed because of the way you pick which girl you want. And unless you're on a raging drunk you should be able to establish some rapport first. The sex may not be the greatest but you at least rented a companion for the night. And when you do luck into a one that is great in the sack you just "lease" her for your vacation.

I think that my next year of FKK clubs will be more positive and successful since I think I now know how to enjoy them for myself and how to keep from being disappointed. Especially, now that I realize for me, that ala carte is better than the buffet.

LSM

Thank you Peter and Dadelus for your responses.

Yes the Oase Sudfass near downtown Frankfurt is the one I am talking about. Many years ago there was another Sudfass but the owner was shot or something.

Anyways, I will arrive in Munich Sunday afternoon and leave Ttuesday afternoon.

I can have a car at my disposal or can take the train.

Is there any suggestions for a nice place in or near Munich that I can take a sauna and find good quality girl in FKK-type situation. I will drive to the place you spoke of in your post but any other ideas are most welcome.

Thank you

Peter,

Thanks for that link. Am I write that it is basically a map showing the location of the dozen or so so-called "Red Carpet" FKK clubs in Germany?

Langsuan Man,

An interesting essay to be sure. You certainly make a good point when you observe that many of us non-DE residents do fly into Germany for the specific purpose of pursuing our hobby. Some guys come in and fkk their brains out for three days or so, then [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] off and comje back and do it all over again a month or two later. Others (like myself) tend to come for longer streches than 3 days so that we can pace ourselves a bit more and "sip" the wine rather than guzzle it. My ideal visit duration right now tends to be 6 or 7 days.

Although I am not 57, I do sometimes need some time to recover between sessions, esp. towards the end of 5-6 days solid fkking. That is where the "leave and re-enter" policy works to my great advantage. I often start the day at, say, Oase at 15.00-17.00. I have an hour session or two, then get dressed, collect my belongings, turn in the key and get my re-entry pass. I leave around 20.30-21.00, then go do something for a few hours and return around mid-night for late-night/early AM action, often very well re-charged for another rouch or two. Eating the right (light, energy-filled) foods and drinking lots of water helps me recover nicely. Avoiding alcohol (til after the fkk day is finished) and taking a smoke of good week/hash often help me too...

But you are quite correct: Experience in this hobby pays great benefits. Once you learn how to "read" girls and have experience with enough girls, you can increase your chances of having positive successfull sessions vs being burned. But even the most experienced amongst will occassionaly guess wrong or mis-read or just throw caution to the wind and go with a girl without proper testing on the couch or whatever and end up with a dud session. Such was the case with me exactly one week ago, when, at Oase I had amassed a series of five or six back-to-back great GFEish successfull sessions, only to run into a real dud near the end by going to the room with a good looking yet horrible-performing bleached blonde Donna. Though some have told me there are great reports about this girl (which is why I decided to throw caution to the wind), I would strongly suggest avoiding this one...

C'est la FKK...

Ortos

Ortos,

yes, that is the RCC homepage, you can click on the links and get to each clubs home page. about 4 of them are for germans only (Aplerbeck, F39, etc.) and there are other clubs like Salome and Iserlohn which are for a multicultural customer base.

I also know that tropicana and Cocoon have discriminatory policies, except when there is absolutely nothing going on. They built Ali Baba specifically for the Turkish customers.

Wildenrath used to be a lot more selective at the door, but nowadays clubs can't afford to be so picky as there just aren't as many customers to go around.

Langsuan,

Great essay!

I know for a FACT, that all the Frankfurt area clubs will admit anyone regardless of the racial background. Some clubs in the Ruhr are a bit more selective. There are times when Bernd's wouldn't admit certain clients. Most clubs don't have a problem with foreigners, in fact a lot of girls like certain guys, especially black guys. There's actually a partytreff club, Kasteel Waterloo, in Holland but has a lot of German guests, brings in black guys for the women.

I know about Aplebecker and a few other clubs. Most premium clubs don't have this practice. I'm not sure about Wildenrath. The CFIT people usually have a lot of Asian and Black customers and have taken them to Bernd's, Babylon, Wildenrath, Happy Garden, and haven't run into any issues.

As for the race issue overall, I think East Asians would have the least difficulty of all racial minorities in gaining admittance. Its more an issue of their behavior, most East Asians tend to be cosmopolitan in their appearance and, behavior, and demeanor. Arabs tend to be aggressive, there are many in Germany, and a lot of the rough characters and gangs seen around the train stations late at night in Germany, are Arabs. Turks and Indians have the bad luck of having a similar appearance to Arabs, and unluckily get singled out.

I am new to FKK scene and used it only 2-3 times. I need some help regarding viruses/ infections from you all experts.

Is it safe to have BBBJ? Does it transmit any kind of infections to us. Girls perform BBBJ to 10-15 guys on any given day one after another. So are we at any kind of risk.
During my last visit I was talking to a Romanian girl, she told me that she just came from Romania 2 days back. So do they do medical tests?

Your answers will be appreciated.

Thanks

Yes, there is a risk of getting an infection by receiving a bbbj. You can think of any STD you want. But the risk isn´t big.

In the big clubs, the girls get tested regularly. I´m not sure about the value of these tests, because the girls could bribe the doctor if their tests shows some STD.

In fact I know about one doctor who was open to bribing - he got fired when the club-management recognized that.

Personally, I never got infected with any STD in about 1.000 sessions over the last (nearly) three years. But it might happen next time.

It´s safer to eat an apple instead.

Have fun,

Novize

P.S.: There is a thread for discussions about SafeSex and STDs.

Look here: [url]http://www.*************.info/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=268[/url]

You can get Gonnorhea or Chlamydia from BBBJ. I picked up Gonnorhea in a club once. But it is pretty easily recognized,a dn 5 days of Cipro did the trick on that.

As Novize said, no risk no fun.

It can happen, I also have to admit I have seen a couple of girls around with visible herpes outbreaks and then I have actually broken off the session once. But via a BBBJ you can't really pick up anything which cannot be treated with antibiotics.

1000 sessions, eh? Well, on turnover upwards of EUR 70.000 and with the clubs and providers scrupulously honest in declaring income :rolleyes: I am astonished that Germany's tax receipts are falling away so much. :)

[QUOTE=Toscana]1000 sessions, eh? Well, on turnover upwards of EUR 70.000 and with the clubs and providers scrupulously honest in declaring income :rolleyes: I am astonished that Germany's tax receipts are falling away so much. :)[/QUOTE]

Three years mongering, between 1 and 4 visits a week (average ~2) , average 3 sessions results in lots of spent money during about 1000 sessions.

But I have to admit that I calmed down after the first 2 years...

The problem for the German tax office is that they don´t allow tax declarations being made in Eastern European languages. So the girls just can´t fill the forms... :D

Have fun,

Novize