German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[QUOTE=Optimist;2014105]Governments only listen to petitions, referendums, or demonstrations when they want to. Even 2 million means nothing unless it suits the Government. However such actions can be a useful part of a longerterm political and social process.[/QUOTE]Nah that'll never work. Politicians only care about power or losing power. If this new law doesn't get overturned soon then I'm going to support Trump to pull out of NATO. Russia can have it. Let the Russians come sort it out or fuck it up. Hate to say it but I think people are forgetting how shit things were before. People forgot what real communist oppression felt like and now they are doing it to themselves. People keep giving up more rights everyday and want to get more involved into what other people are doing in their bedrooms.

Plus didn't Putin said Russia has the best prostitutes? LOL Maybe he'll train these girls to give better service. LOL!

[QUOTE=SoloTraveler;2013969]Apart from Brazil, another place many other punters bring up all the time is Thailand.

But, like you, after I tried it a few times myself, I find out it is just not my thing.

German FKK Sauna Club is a kind of very strange (in the good way) venue.

In Thailand and Brazil, their venues are mainly nightclubs, bars, massage parlors, etc, which are the types of venues you can find in many other countries as well.

However, FKK Sauna clubs only exist in German-speaking countries.

The closest resemblance I could find were the Saunas in Macau, but they are by far not as good as the ones in Germany.

If the ones in Germany are like FIFA World Cup final level, the ones in Macau are maybe like U18 friendly match level.

Then, it's the price that attracts most of us to travel 10+ hours to Germany from Asia or America.

The price range from 25-50 EUR / half hour one shot. If you calculate price by shots, then this is indeed cheaper than Brazil or Thailand.

And one more thing that is amazing is the unbelievably cheap hotel price.

I found a great deal on the Internet, 6 nights in a 3-star business hotel around Dusseldorf Hbf with a total cost of 140 EUR. That's 24 EUR / night. Single room with everything I need.

So, even the hotel price is cheaper than those in Thailand.

Don't forget that Germany is almost 2-3 times richer than Thailand (average local wages), but the cost of sex and hotel are lower or the same as Thailand (average price per pop).

I don't know what's wrong with this world, but this is the way it is.

So, all I wish for now, is that the price in FKK Sauna clubs do not go up anymore.

And hopefully the tourists will only ruin Hessen clubs, leaving other states alone.

I think we punters, FKK stakeholders, FKK website promoters, FKK tour guides, etc should all unite in order to protect this FKK Sauna Land.

LOL.[/QUOTE]Actually, I haven't visited Thailand myself. I find it takes a bit of dedication to take the plunge there as it's more distanced (further than De for me), so the travel time a bit of extra, and therefore you'the have to dedicate longer duration for the trip. I tend to try places out, so when I can make time, I'the probably see how it's like, but it's on the back-burner at the moment behind Brazil.

How much time we got matters a lot for us busy folks. LOL. I think places we are able to get to quickly for shorter trips can be a draw with limited time allotted.

Yes, German club p6 scene would be quite distinguishable from other places. The oldest profession has been around awhile in De, and the scene resulted from the blend with the culture. Creating a tighter and well established standard per pricing. With the addition of amenities provided, the scene should be considered to be quite progressive for p6. There is that idea that Germans tend to be tight-wads, look for maximum for their Euros, and that probably had influence into how the standards developed. As you mentioned cheap lodging as well.

As outsiders, we benefit from the situation. It's sorry to see bunch of outsiders ruining the scene, and just think about some of those locals having to adjust to the influx of tourists. It's something the locals have established, and we come and change the equilibrium.

[QUOTE=PussyLiccker;2014449]
As outsiders, we benefit from the situation. It's sorry to see bunch of outsiders ruining the scene, and just think about some of those locals having to adjust to the influx of tourists. It's something the locals have established, and we come and change the equilibrium.[/QUOTE]Hmm that isn't the whole truth. Without these internationl guys we wouldn't have so many FKK clubs anymore. A lot of top girls would prefer to work in other countries as many of them already prefer. The point is that Germany is the cheapest, safest and best P6 place for European style girls in the world. On the other side the average and top earnings of the girls was reduced every year at least over the last five years maybe even longer.

I know this is unpopular but in Germany is the price for P6 now too low, especially at the FKK clubs. Here and in German boards guys expect for 50 euro from a smart and young 8 at least10 minutes PST and then full 30 minutes sex like a wedding night with almost everything like DFK, top class BJ, BL, DATY, FIP and all positions you have in mind and so on and for the rest of the day the girl should always thankful smile to the guy or even talk again with him. Sorry that doesn't work anymore for 50 euro for the A class girls in 2017.

[QUOTE=Craiova;2014458]Hmm that isn't the whole truth. Without these internationl guys we wouldn't have so many FKK clubs anymore. A lot of top girls would prefer to work in other countries as many of them already prefer. The point is that Germany is the cheapest, safest and best P6 place for European style girls in the world. On the other side the average and top earnings of the girls was reduced every year at least over the last five years maybe even longer.

I know this is unpopular but in Germany is the price for P6 now too low, especially at the FKK clubs. Here and in German boards guys expect for 50 euro from a smart and young 8 at least10 minutes PST and then full 30 minutes sex like a wedding night with almost everything like DFK, top class BJ, BL, DATY, FIP and all positions you have in mind and so on and for the rest of the day the girl should always thankful smile to the guy or even talk again with him. Sorry that doesn't work anymore for 50 euro for the A class girls in 2017.[/QUOTE]Wages in Europe are not exactly staggeringly high. What else are the girls going to do? Where are they going to work? If they could get more elsewhere, they would have by now.

[QUOTE=Craiova;2014458]Here and in German boards guys expect for 50 euro from a smart and young 8 at least10 minutes PST and then full 30 minutes sex like a wedding night with almost everything like DFK, top class BJ, BL, DATY, FIP and all positions you have in mind and so on and for the rest of the day the girl should always thankful smile to the guy or even talk again with him. Sorry that doesn't work anymore for 50 euro for the A class girls in 2017.[/QUOTE]That's exactly what I was expecting when I was a newbie in Germany. Everything as perfect as a wedding night with women in clubs for merely a 50 Euro banknote. LOL.

But after so many so-so to below-average sessions, I have no choice but to lower my expectation and standard. Otherwise, I will have to complain to the reception with every woman I took. And I guess I would also get blacklisted by all clubs by doing so. LOL.

Now in 2017, I will just be thankful if the woman perform slight kissing, BBBJ, and covered sex in 2 positions (missionary and doggy) with standard rate. Maybe no more BBBJ, but only CBJ from July 1.

First Palace, second Oase, now Sharks, women there start expecting a minimum payment of 100. Will the rest clubs in Hessen not to be infected?

[QUOTE=MrManGuy;2014472]Wages in Europe are not exactly staggeringly high. What else are the girls going to do? Where are they going to work? If they could get more elsewhere, they would have by now.[/QUOTE]Well, it is better to remind them, if they are not happy about 50 Euro / half hour, they are more than welcome to quit and go work in McDonald's or Burger King, where the hourly pay is around 8 Euros. After deducting taxes, they can receive a little bit more than 50 Euros for 8-hour hard work perhaps.

Not to mention most of them come from places a lot poorer than Germany.

I admire and thank the German locals to keep the price fixed at under 50 Euros / half hour (in NRW, 30-40 Euros / half hour) for so long.

Please maintain the price.

If Romanian women are not happy about 50 Euros, just let them quit. I'm sure a lot of other Eastern European women want a job that can earn 50 Euro within 30 minutes.

Nowadays FKK Sauna clubs are mostly dominated by black-haired dark-skinned Romanians, who look more like Hispanic or Latinos than the usual Eastern Europeans.

So, I start feeling I travel to Germany to meet Latino women than European women, which is a bit strange.

Hopefully, more women of different ethnicity can join the FKK Sauna clubs business to add more flavors for me.

By the way, where are all those Russians, Ukrainians, Polish, etc the traditionally stereotypical Eastern European women go?

Maybe 10 years ago, Russians and Ukrainians women are all over the world. I can find a Russian woman even in Thailand.

Today, most of them are gone.

Maybe Putin build his own FKK Sauna club in his harem, and all women are sent back there? LOL.

[QUOTE=SvenFKK;2014103]Also, don't use "feminists" like this. There are many feminists who not only are not against the ban of prostitution, but actively work to support it. We need them on our side! (Or underneath us, as the case may be.).[/QUOTE]Even the few sex-positive feminists (like Brooke Magnanti) are into "empowering" women. They will be against criminalizing the female side but having nothing to say about criminalizing johns. It's a mens' rights issue more than a sex law issue.

[QUOTE=AznHotBoy;2014443]Nah that'll never work. Politicians only care about power or losing power. If this new law doesn't get overturned soon then I'm going to support Trump to pull out of NATO. Russia can have it. Let the Russians come sort it out or fuck it up. [/QUOTE]I hope you are not suggesting that the US would have any lesson to give Germany in terms of prostitution. Many mongers hail from countries where being a heterosexual male, let alone a prositute's client, is enough to make you a criminal. And I'm surprised at the virulence with which said mongers inveigh against the gov'mts in P4 P countries who bow to international pressure. What about cleaning your own backyard?

It is a sad finding that men won't stand up for their rights (especially not in their own countries). Not like the wymmyns, judging by what you can find all over the internet:

[URL]http://endsexualexploitation.org/articles/petition-amnesty-internationals-prostitution-policy/[/URL]
http://endsexualexploitation.org/articles/throwback-thursday-our-2015-video-press-conference-announcing-the-noamnesty4pimps-campaign/

A full-blown "#NoAmnesty4Pimps Campaign" ! Amazing isn't it how the wymmyns network and lobby and raise hell while for example hardly any of the mongers on this forum have ever as much as donated 20 euros to the associations fighting for our rights?

Well, maybe I'm a bit unfair when I write that men won't stand up for their rights. Some men will take an FKK girl to the front desk if they feel cheated on a 30-minute session, LOL.

Don't be silly, you cannot fight against society. All that will happen will be that prostitution will go further underground. Which means that the pimps have even more control over the girls and force them to do what the clients want. This is not a good thing, but where there is demand there will be a supply. Drugs have been illegal for a few hundred years and would you say there are no drug addicts in Germany?

[QUOTE=MrManGuy;2014553]Don't be silly, you cannot fight against society. All that will happen will be that prostitution will go further underground. Which means that the pimps have even more control over the girls and force them to do what the clients want. This is not a good thing, but where there is demand there will be a supply. Drugs have been illegal for a few hundred years and would you say there are no drug addicts in Germany?[/QUOTE]Your post confuses me. A sex worker has a number of costs. If she can earn more in a foreign market than a local market (often the case for ladies from certain parts of Eastern Europe and South America) she has the costs of traveling to and from a foreign market, she has the costs of advertising, and she has the cost of handling the administrative scheduling tasks instead of fucking.

The German FKKs, and large well-known brothels in any country that accepts fixed-location brothels, are extraordinarily efficient at reducing these costs for sex workers. The FKK workers can often arrive on low-cost buses or trains, and a large number of customers congregate at the FKK clubs without the clubs needing to spend much on advertising per worker. They even provide meals and (I presume) housing for the workers, so even a truly indigent lady can go to work without much upfront costs.

Pretty damn cool. Kind of like WalMart in the USA In a different industry. With all the associated negatives in some people's opinion, but that is another matter.

I have no problem with that, but you seem to assert that if the FKKs suddenly all disappeared, the system would become pimp-controlled, and that is where I get confused.

A few of the ladies would become those superstar hookers who have a website, take out ads on respected sites, get reviews on review boards, handle their scheduling via email or whatsapp, and even learn enough different languages (with the help of Google translate) to schedule customers of different nationalities. In a country where the activity is illegal, she may even have to screen to avoid cops. She would have to figure out how to get around for outcall appointments and take care of her own incall location (either where she lives or locating a trick pad). These are actually my favorite sex workers, but they cost more because they have less ability to spread their administrative costs with other ladies. I think they often provide a higher level of service, but that is a subjective opinion.

I realize that not every sex worker can do it all on her own, so she will purchase administrative help. Completely new workers may need a loan to travel, and a great number need help with scheduling, advertising translating languages, transportation, and providing safety and security from truly dangerous customers. I use a lot of agencies in various countries that provide those services, and even when dealing with a supposed independent I realize I may be conversing with her "assistant". I don't view any of that as "pimping", so I am wondering what your definition of "pimping" is? If this is "pimping", is Germany a really big pimp?

The sex industry exists in every country, even where it is illegal. Many sex workers realize that they prefer to outsource administrative tasks to spend more time doing the activity that produces the actual revenue. And many face the reality that they have to get a loan to make the upfront investment in their business, which may include international travel. I just don't view that as "pimping".

[QUOTE=XXL;2014538]Even the few sex-positive feminists (like Brooke Magnanti) are into "empowering" women. They will be against criminalizing the female side but having nothing to say about criminalizing johns. It's a mens' rights issue more than a sex law issue.

I hope you are not suggesting that the US would have any lesson to give Germany in terms of prostitution. Many mongers hail from countries where being a heterosexual male, let alone a prositute's client, is enough to make you a criminal. And I'm surprised at the virulence with which said mongers inveigh against the gov'mts in P4 P countries who bow to international pressure. What about cleaning your own backyard?

It is a sad finding that men won't stand up for their rights (especially not in their own countries). Not like the wymmyns, judging by what you can find all over the internet:

[URL]http://endsexualexploitation.org/articles/petition-amnesty-internationals-prostitution-policy/[/URL]
http://endsexualexploitation.org/articles/throwback-thursday-our-2015-video-press-conference-announcing-the-noamnesty4pimps-campaign/

A full-blown "#NoAmnesty4Pimps Campaign" ! Amazing isn't it how the wymmyns network and lobby and raise hell while for example hardly any of the mongers on this forum have ever as much as donated 20 euros to the associations fighting for our rights?

Well, maybe I'm a bit unfair when I write that men won't stand up for their rights. Some men will take an FKK girl to the front desk if they feel cheated on a 30-minute session, LOL.[/QUOTE]Brooke Magnanti opposes the Nordic model IIRC.

I agree that the 50 euro for a good 30 min session is a bit outdated and underpriced. Perhaps the price needs to move up to 60. Right now, girls in Frankfurt are getting around it by cheating on time. Unless they are your long time regulars, or unless you front commit to a hour long session, most give a perfunctory blow job with the sole intent of making the dick hard, and mounting with the aim to finish under 10, perhaps 15 min max. And starting from the 10th min they are looking at the clock, with the "why have not you finished yet" look - Which is sometimes verbalized and shortly thereafter they claim time is almost up. If you pick a new girl, chances that you will get full 30 min time in a 50 euro session are less than 20% in my view.

If you pay 50 for a 20 min session, effectively you are paying 75 for a 30 min. It's much better to raise the price to 60 and have some sort of time management system that both men and women can agree on and be honest about. I can't tell how many times I was short changed, or had enough of this bs and tell firmly that time was not up and point to the watch (which is a major mod killer) and even then the session ends around 25th min.

Pimps will move in ID say. A bunch of defenseless ladies doing illegal activity worth a lot of money? When something becomes illegal who takes over? Look at booze and gambling. These sweden types know nothing about history. The pimps will move in and the establishment will produce official statistics saying the problem has been solved. Europeans are great at lying to themselves.

I think 50 euro is fine. People will always try to get out of work.

[QUOTE=Jnpr30;2014799]I agree that the 50 euro for a good 30 min session is a bit outdated and underpriced. Perhaps the price needs to move up to 60. Right now, girls in Frankfurt are getting around it by cheating on time. Unless they are your long time regulars, or unless you front commit to a hour long session, most give a perfunctory blow job with the sole intent of making the dick hard, and mounting with the aim to finish under 10, perhaps 15 min max. And starting from the 10th min they are looking at the clock, with the "why have not you finished yet" look - Which is sometimes verbalized and shortly thereafter they claim time is almost up. If you pick a new girl, chances that you will get full 30 min time in a 50 euro session are less than 20% in my view.

If you pay 50 for a 20 min session, effectively you are paying 75 for a 30 min. It's much better to raise the price to 60 and have some sort of time management system that both men and women can agree on and be honest about. I can't tell how many times I was short changed, or had enough of this bs and tell firmly that time was not up and point to the watch (which is a major mod killer) and even then the session ends around 25th min.[/QUOTE]If you've been to Aus or Artemis, you'd realize that for girls even 60 doesn't change things. In Aus the standard of pricing is 60 Euros(or 75 by the Italian border), doesn't mean upselling is any less than anywhere(it's actually pretty signficant, which reduces the service level there). Raise it to more, they will expect more, it's the nature of the business. It's all about what type of clientele are around and standards in the clubs(management), which explain the differences in expectations of girls in various clubs / parts.

But, little more than 60 would be the point of calculated inflation.

[QUOTE=PussyLiccker;2014810]If you've been to Aus or Artemis, you'd realize that for girls even 60 doesn't change things. In Aus the standard of pricing is 60 Euros(or 75 by the Italian border), doesn't mean upselling is any less than anywhere. Raise it to more, they will expect more, it's the nature of the business. It's all about what type of clientele are around, which explain the differences in expectations of girls in various clubs / parts.[/QUOTE]Yes, been to Artemis but not the other one. And thought Artemis sucked. Anyway, there are probability other variables such as cost of living etc. Not saying this is a magic cure. And I also said couple the 60 euro Price raise with some sort of time management stipulation. Perhaps a simple stop clock that can be installed in each room. Can't be very expensive.

[QUOTE=Jnpr30;2014813]Yes, been to Artemis but not the other one. And thought Artemis sucked. Anyway, there are probability other variables such as cost of living etc. Not saying this is a magic cure. And I also said couple the 60 euro Price raise with some sort of time management stipulation. Perhaps a simple stop clock that can be installed in each room. Can't be very expensive.[/QUOTE]GT and LR currently shows evidance of management styling has effects on containing such behaviors. I also thought Sakura, when comparing to Paradise, there maybe a particular managment style as well. I think also, Germans tend to pick Sakura over Paradise in the area as well.

I've heard so many bad stories of Palace mis-management of scams, and that pushes such actions to keep occurring.

Actually, F39 when I attended in the past they had clocks in the rooms and required girls to start the clock. But even without the clock, I don't expect shorting of time to be even comparable to Hessen in a standard session. It's more of a local type club with pretty much Germans attending.

I think having a wall clock very visible in each room would help a bit. At YY, every room has a clock that is visible. Never been shorted on time there or pretty rare to be shorted on time at NRW.