Hanoi

I lived in Hanoi for four years and there is more to Hanoi then just Apocalypse, Monaco or New Century.

The Hanoi Hotel is a good place to start. The massage there is probably the best in town. Six months ago 16 US$ got you 2 hours. The place is clean. Sauna and steam room, great shower and the linen is fresh. You can relax and have a beer before the massage and watch a bit of TV. Beer is around three US $. You choose the girl at the entrance when the receptionist gives you a locker number. Actually there is a bunch of numbers on a board and the top ones are the available girls. Go there around two or three in the afternoon and most of the girls are free. The place gets busy after six and goes on until past midnight. If you decide to stay in the hotel, you can even order the girls up to your room for thirty dollars an hour plus the fee for the girl. Never done it so I don�ft know what the rate is.

Not all the girls are great but they all will give you the full massage for twenty US don�ft pay more. I like to be straightforward and it�fs the first thing I negotiate with the girl when I get in the room. Usually you can play with then a bit but they have some tough uniform to get into. Have fun!

Quang Ba district: The best map of Hanoi I found on the net is at the following address: http://www.hau.edu.vn/apsa2003/Hanoi_map.htm. You will need it to get there. Quang Ba is the red light district of Hanoi with a lot of brothels. It is very, very local! Only the adventurous should go there and never with a three-piece suite on! I also would not recommend it past 6 pm. Go there in the afternoon and remove the fear factor. I never had any troubles there because I went there between three and five. Get in any taxi in town but not from the large hotels. Mailing Taxi Company seems to be the best with the best drivers. Just tell them Quang Ba and off you go. It is to the left of the New Sofitel Plaza. From downtown it takes about fifteen minutes. On the way just tell the driver that you want �gMadam Boom-Boom�h when you get there in front of somm houses there will be guys sitting outside on chairs. Stop the taxi and go to the nearest guy. He will take you in the house. Usually you will be asked if you want a beer and then you will be taken up to a room. It's not five stars but usually decent. Then the girls will be shown to you. Price again six months ago was 350 thousand Dong.

True enough Fortuna, Hanoi Hotel KTV or Daewoo are too expensive but the girls can be good. Be careful with the girls from Apocalypse and New Century, they will steal anything they can, don�ft leave them alone!

Now if you have a few days to spare, you should get out of town and go to Do Son, a small seaside resort 20k from Haiphong. Web Site info: http://www.calle.com/world/VM/13/Do_Son.html

Go to the Do Son Hotel at the end of the road. Room 100 000 Dong, Short time girl, 80 000 Dong and 200 000 Dong overnight. Food there is cheap but good and the rooms are clean but small. This small hotel caters to all the Vietnamese men that go there for a sexy week end. No TV, No Radio, no phone in the rooms and nothing much to do except eat drink sleep and make love. The girls are not the best but for the price you can not expect models. Send them back if you don't like them. Usually Vietnamese guys go there and just pick one. I like to get there in the early afternoon and take two before dinner, one for dessert and one for overnight. Look at the guy's face when you check out and he prepares the bill for you. He will give you thumbs up and tell you: You very strong.

Thanks Michel for your seasoned Hanoi perspective. I agree that Quang Ba out on the shores of West Lake is definitely not for the uninitiated. I always went went there in the afternoon and got out before dark. Not that it's necessarily dangerous but the male touts/pimps/mafioso are big time assholes. I always try to avoid the scum and the less around the better. My pricing experience was this: House (often a brothel karaoke got 60000d for one hour of 'hot' or entertainment room fee) and the girls tip was around 50000d HJ, around 100000 BJ and around 150000 FS. Sometimes the touts have you presented a bill with double or triple the 'hot' fee which had me nearly coming to fisticuffs a few times before compromise. As usual, they lost my future biz and I just found a better place with exclusive female or at least trustworthly male management. Local VNese guys would surely consider the tips I quote high since they get FS for 30000-60000d at various cafe tam on the outskirts of southwest Hanoi - I've gotten that price range too with negotiation. I also agree about the relaxing beach resort of Do Son and Hai Phong area has some very stunning beauties if you put in the effort to find them.

thanks asiaphile!

one more area that has women roaming is around the front of the hilton. as you walk out of the hilton make a left on the road and just walk slowly around 8 or 9pm. make a left again at the end of the street.women on motorcycles will stop by and ask you if you are interested. prices are cheap but the girls don't look all that good. never tried it but came close. they tell you that they have a hotel and can take you there on their bike.
in the same area, as you walk out of the hilton make a right this time and then at the intersection a left. stay on the right side of the road. you will arrive at a small square where ladies are sitting on benches or walking around. these are very local and not so clean, i saw one taking a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] in the grass, she just pulled up a dress and let go. not the most inviting thing unless you'r into [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord101][CodeWord101][/url].

Shortly I will stay at the Hilton.

Any bar or disco there, where you can arrange meeting in your room upstairs?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

A question to Michel: from your report I understand that Hanoi Hotel massage is just a massage, or something more may happen?

Asiaphile,

Sorry for the rookie mistake. I definately don't want to ruin the local scene for you guys.

As for the Hilton massage, the woman I had offered a HJ, but she was very unattractive (face maybe 2, body 5) and she asked for $30 USD tip so I declined. I'm sure that she would have come down in price, but the massage itself I think is 18-20 USD for one hour. Very good massage though.

I'll be back in Hanoi in a month time or so, and will make sure that 80K tip for HJ is the max I pay. I just want to clarify that this is about $5 USD?

Albert,

Hanoi Hotel massage and more! for sure! Just tell them straight what you want and you will get it except FS but great BBBJ and HJ for about 200 000 Dong no more then that! As for the Hilton no Disco you need to get out of the Hilton and either to Apocalypse or New Century. Be back to your hotel before Eleven or security will not let you in with the girl!

Good Luck!

Lately Hanoi had really pissed me off a bit. The good news first. The Hanoian girls can be stunningly fair-skinned beautiful, generally taller, big bosomed, cultured, educated, less greedly than southern sisters, blah blah, (remember Suzy Wong's which is gone for a couple of years now anyone!). The aforementioned places, AN, NC and M have sadly declined and may as well close down although I doubt it since the owners have the connections or are owned by high level SRV officials. I hate to say it but for all it's faults (bizarre come and go crackdowns, street mafia BS), etc. HCM City is overall wayyyy better IF YOU KNOW THE INSIDE SECRETS OF THE EXOCIC PLAYING FIELD THAT IS THE EXTENDED NORTH/SOUTH DRAGON... Any expat or traveler who wants to discuss in confidence can contact me as I am becoming ever more paranoid about any wide-open internet discussion of nightlife secrets in Vietnam. I have around a dozen years experience all over the country so my perspective is very seasoned and unfortunately a bit jaded as well. Still, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE VIETNAM!

Asiaphile, are you still based in VN? I'm headed back to HCMC and can always use your advice. I've been in and out for years but never mongered.

Thanks, bro.

[size=-2][u]EDITOR's NOTE[/u]: [blue]Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to [u]correctly spell the words "you", "are" and "because"[/u]. To avoid delays in future reports, please refrain from using "u" instead of "you", "r" instead or "are", "em" instead of "them", and "cuz" instead of "because", etc. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue][/size]

Bad luck in Hanoi.

I was there only for a couple of days so, basing on your suggestions, I wanted to try Fortuna Hotel hostess bar and Hanoi Hotel massage.

Went to Fortuna, found the bar with live music and many girls around. However, I was unable to pick a girl. Maybe I did not understand how the system works there.
Normally in such places, you are almost assaulted by girls. Maybe there girls are discrete and wait you to make first move. Which I tried to do with 4 or 5 cuties who passed by me, smiling at them and saying "hallo, how are you". Nothing happened, they did not stop. Only girl available to talk to me, only knew "my name is", "what is your name", "where are you from". That's all.

If my memory serves me well, in Italian Fortuna means good luck.

Day after I had flight in the late afternoon. I managed to finish the business in the morning in order to hit at Hanoi Hotel massage. Well, I went there and I discovered that massage parlour is under renovation !

I really regret it was not possible to experiment some Vietnamese as they look very nice.

Hopefully next time will go better.

Hello everyone!

I am glad to have found you at last because I need serious advice, I guess!

I spent the past two summers in northern Vietnam, travelling around and of course I was stunned by the girls there. To be honest I've never hired a hooker but I am really eager to.

In Hanoi, I went through several near to fuck (!) experiences, if I may say.

Hanging around Hoam Kiem Lake one evening, I noticed a westerner who was negociating real hard with a guy to get a girl but I could hear he was not so comfortable with going to somewhere he didn't know. He accompanied the hooker eventually.
Shortly after, a guy sat next to me and started to say that he was gay, then, seeing I wasn't into that business, he offered me to find a girl for me ( the deal was "officially" 2 hours for 30 dollars) after some talking, I didn't take the step because I was afraid of possible traps and hassle.

Later on, during my stay there, I went to a barber shop where I had a massage with two girls wanking me, and they accepted getting undressed and touched. I had discussed the price beforehand and all went perfectly. When we were finish, the two girls became real mad! One of them held me like a professional wresling competitor with her legs begging for more money, and wouldn't let me go!

Luckily enough I had not brought much with me and I had hidden the big notes in my shoes! But they eventually ripped me off the little money I had in my wallet! (I can't remember how much that was, but not much).

So, here I come, not deterred at all. I am going back there in a month, and though I extensively read the pages of this site, I'd like to get further advice for a rookie like me. Are there places safer than others in Hanoi for a beginner like me? Or tips to avoid some annoyances?

Any tip would be welcome.

Waiting for your enlightening answers.

Seventh Sky

PS: I had a fantastic experience in Cao Bang though. See my report in "other areas", if you are interested.

Hanoi Report:

Just an update on the situation in Hanoi from a recent visit.

Out of Apolcalypse, New Century and Monaco, I fould the best selection in New Century. Pulled out of there on 2/3 nights for $30 ST. Apocalypse talent was a tad too old for my taste, some even pushing 40, but most 30+. Monaco was dead, but it may have been early. Absolutely zero in Relax Bar at 8pm.

Daewoo Hotel: Tried the sauna. Nice hardware, but the girl did not even get close to a HJ during a pretty good massage. She ended up calling in an "older" more experienced girl for a quick HJ for 10$ when I finally showed interest towards the end of the session. On the other hand, the talent in the nightclub (Club Q)
attached to the hotel is phenomenal. Absolute stunners. I paid 100$ LT, but it was worth every penny.

Quang Ba: Took the advise and went late afternoon. Complete waste of VND100k taxi fare from hotel and back. They tried to rip me off in every place I went. Started quoting VND500k ST. Finally agreed for 20US$, for a 4-5 in one place with the papasan. When the girl closed the door, she asked for more money immediately. I bolted. Not recommended.

Stopped in a small town about half hour from Hanoi. I wish I could remember the name. A small resort hotel built like a Chinese temple, with girls for 20$ ST including the room. The best value and close to a GFE. Does anybody know the place?

OAH

I'm a semi-retired bloke (50 years old) thinking about moving to either China (Kunming or Chongqing) or Vietnam (Hanoi) to live. I'd love to have your opinions about the relative merits of each place. My priorities are:

1) Easy access to inexpensive girls whenever I feel like it, and possibility of having actual girlfriend considerably younger than me.
2) Low cost of living. Rent a decent apartment for USD $100-200, as one can in Thailand.
3) Safe to walk the streets.
4) Pretty city with lots of trees and parks
5) No government hassles about staying a long time, easy visa extensions.
6) Easy and inexpensive internet access, preferably cable internet.
7) Wholesome vegetables and fruits available without a lot of chemical contamination. Lots of tofu because I don't eat meat.

I previously lived in Thailand but left because that country became less tourist-friendly, and I started to realize that I like whiter skinned Viet or Chinese girls better than Thais.

Also, which language do you think is easier to learn? I would assume Vietnamese is much easier, because it uses the western alphabet.

I am from the US, and don't want to be killed by anyone who is angry about what my government did to Vietnam. Is this a problem?

Thanks for your thoughts. Also, please suggest other cities or towns if you think there are better places than Kunming, Chongqing and Hanoi.

With all due respect, I suggest you take at least ONE nice long trip to VN before you consider moving there - and the same for S.W. China if you have not been yet.

Some of your questions reveal suprising naivete for an experienced expat - such as, "will I get killed," "is it safe to walk the streets," "is there easy and inexpensive internet access," etc.
I'll answer the last one since the first two are rather absurd unless you're maybe run over by a drunk moto boy. VND 3000/hr for internet access is pretty much the going rate.

Maybe you would have liked living in Northern Thailand (Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Mae Sai) where the girls are majority your type - fair skinned beauties - with a real Thailand experience as opposed just hanging out in Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, etc.

Lastly, even though the VNese use a type of Latin alphabet, Chinese Mandarin is a bit easier to master for most westerners. Probably only a tiny fraction of the expats living in either country make a serious attempt to become fluent with either rather hard to speak language.

You'll learn way more on the ground than words can guide you here - and knowledge is power.

Mr. Reggie P,

Not going to recommend you to either places. As Asiaphile mentioned, you should tour the places you wish to live in. Maybe hang around for a month or 2. Try to blend and you'll probably find out which place is more suitable for you.

This is according to my personal opinion (please note that I have only been in Vietnam for 1.5 years, and China = 0 years)

Vietnam
Cleaniness = Cleaner than some countries I have been to.
Food = Not as cheap as China, but still darn cheap (this applies to market groceries, restaurants are cheap too, but I am not sure if it is cheaper than China)
Getting killed = Not unless you are a stupid fark and run around saying things that offends people, you'll probably be killed in ANYWHERE you go. As long as you are street smart, don't bad mouth people, you should be fine. Vietnam is one of the safest places I have been to. The motorcycles are a ****.
Girls = Presuming that I am amateur in this area, girls that can be picked up are everywhere (depending if you have what it takes, language skills, money, etc). It can be easy, it can be hard. But for $$ girls, HJ girls are everywhere. BJ girls are usually FJ girls, and they can be found relatively easy too, depending on your requirements.

China
Cleaniness = About the same as Vietnam (but I've not been to the place you mentioned, so I have no clue really)
Food = Dirt cheap, according to friends
Getting killed = please refer to the vietnam comments. Take it easy, play safe, don't wear jewelry like a christmas tree, you should be good.
Girls = Way more clueless than Vietnam (me I mean). I've been in and out of China (business mainly) and have absolutely no idea watsoever, as to where to get some (of course there are heaps of help here in WSG, but I'm just pretty densed). Anyway, according to friends, chinese girls are quite commercial, money is usually the main goal. Devious too, then again Vietnamese girls can be too, but at least most Vietnamese girls seem honest enough.

Remember though, these are MY opinions, you really should find out yourself. Renting an apartment is very easy in Vietnam. You can even stay in a hotel (local Vietnamese hotel) for around USD15/day. That will give you a clean bed, room, TV, mini-fridge and bathroom. You can even try to negotiate for a cheaper price, if you are going to stay for a month or so. Street name = Pham Ngu Lao, pronouced "Farm nooo loud", the "nooo" is pronouce less a cow moo, and "loud" is pronouce without the "d". (back packers area, heaps of foreigners, that should make you feel more comfy to begin with).

Again, China, no clue.

Reggie,

AFAIK, both Vietnam and China are cheap to get girls/women. To me (as a Viet expat) I think China is a bit more expensive but easier to find girls. There are plenty of houses with extra room for rent in the budget you mentioned. For fruits and vegetable or food in general, you must decide it yourself since these poor people can do whatever to maximize their profits. Hey! who knows as your body may develop a level of resistance never heard of before after eating these suspicious foods! If you are afraid and not sure then stay home (US) and play choke the chicken which is much cheaper.