Crime, Safety, and the Police

[QUOTE=Double]Tijuana is a hole in the sewer. The police are out of control. They murder at will. They are savages, and it is best to stay out of this city. Anyone that must is more than welcome to truck right across the border. We will be seeing another couple of murdered souls again soon, gauranteed.

A $60 piece of p**** is not worth your life. :-([/QUOTE]

The last dozen murders were drug related. In addition, were committed by cartel members. Thus far, all of the victims were involved in the droga racket. If you keep your nose clean, and fly low, all will be tranquilo.

I am feeling nostalgic, and wish the cartel would come back to whack more policia. I never felt more safe on the streets of TJ, as there were no policia to be seen. Yes, fond memories...

I guess that means that the tourist that was found shot dead in TJ was a cartel memeber or a drug dealer of some sort?

Hey, all I know is that Americans are crossing the border and they are not coming back. Perhaps the news story was all wrong, or maybe what I saw on the tele is not real and I should just take your word for it.

American shot dead in TJ while buying p*****, that is no way to go.

Nothing wrong with mongering imho. I just do not believe that TJ is the same city that is was. It is not safe. The catch 22 is that the police are the ones that are responsible-how do you defend yourself against crooked cops that will kill for a couple of dollars?

[QUOTE=Double]I guess that means that the tourist that was found shot dead in TJ was a cartel memeber or a drug dealer of some sort?

Hey, all I know is that Americans are crossing the border and they are not coming back. Perhaps the news story was all wrong, or maybe what I saw on the tele is not real and I should just take your word for it.

American shot dead in TJ while buying p*****, that is no way to go.

Nothing wrong with mongering imho. I just do not believe that TJ is the same city that is was. It is not safe. The catch 22 is that the police are the ones that are responsible-how do you defend yourself against crooked cops that will kill for a couple of dollars?[/QUOTE]

First of all you're paranoid and are trying to pass your paranoia along to other mongers. Bad idea. Second you mention the death of a tourist but show us no proof of the death. You also say, "Americans are crossing the border and they are not coming back," as if tourists entering Tj are wiped from the face of the earth and are never heard from again. You mention that the tourist that was killed was there solely to "buy pussy" and that it was crooked cops that killed him over pocket change.

Where exactly did you get all this information and can you back it up?

I understand you don't feel safe in Tj and that it's no longer the bustling little sex haven of yore but it seems you preffer to add your own theories without knowing the actual facts. That's irrational thinking that leads only to bad results. I'm sorry but I can't stand close minded people.

[QUOTE=Double]Tijuana is a hole in the sewer. The police are out of control. They murder at will. They are savages, and it is best to stay out of this city. Anyone that must is more than welcome to truck right across the border. We will be seeing another couple of murdered souls again soon, gauranteed.

A $60 piece of p**** is not worth your life. :-([/QUOTE]

Sounds like a press release from the Southern California Merchants and Retailer association.

The reality is quite different however. This post lacks the specifics needed to give it credibility and anyone familiar with Tijuana would immediatly see that it is inaccurate.

It's easy to write posts like the above because it doesn't require deep thinking or much experience. Mongers need to realize that common sense is all that is needed to get along here.

I have had many good times in TJ. Many of the supporters of the TJ page seem to be well versed in travel to TJ. They can offer great advise on how to get there and back in one piece. I do realize that there is still a Zona Rosa. The ladies are still in the alley, and in the clubs. The tacos are still great. The women are still there, and some very beautiful woman. I just feel like TJ is a mercenary seen. You really should be experienced to go there. It is not the place for drunks, addicts, and naive kids.

I did editorialize a little in my post.

Suggestions for a safe trip;
-go with a friend or partner.
-do not go if you do not have sufficient money.
-be respectfull of everyone, or leave them alone.
-blend in, do not be loud and drunk.
-do not cause a stir.
-tip when appropriate. do not cause il will by being tight.
-do not get involved with the little street huslers that come up and try to sell you ladies, massages, ect.
-have a plan-decide what you are going to do and do it. do not change plans because you meet some guide type that wants to show you a new spot.
-no bling. leave the bling behind. blend in.
-use taxi's , you have a plan so have the taxi drive you there. tip and say thank's. taxi's can be very helpfull. do your best to choose you own taxi.
-if there is a problem that involves money think first you may want to let it go an step back to see what is going on. you may be missing something while you are discussing the two dollar diffence in the bill.
-treat the ladies with respect. the ladies apreciate men that have respect, and know how to stay with the boundaries. no matter what you may think she is in control, we are just squirrels trying to get a nut.
-when dealing with the police do not try to explain. find out what they want. maintain your calm-see if a deal can be made-payment. Do not get important, and insult the cop or suggest that you are going to "tell on them". The goal is to make the situation go away so you can assess wheather or not you can continue or should go home.

If it is a real hot situation you will problably know-you can tell when someone has made up their mind.

As in like, jeans and a polo or jeans and a t-shirt? Mexicans don't really wear T-shirts, and they say "I'm an American" because of the English writing all over it. Polos either tend to be name-brand or look bad. Mexican men usually wear cheap, non-brand button down shirts--but not T shirts. To blend in, is it better to look like a tourist in a T-shirt or to expect Mexicans to know that most poor Americans (like myself) wear brand name clothes?

[QUOTE=Country John]Sounds like a press release from the Southern California Merchants and Retailer association.[/QUOTE]CJ,

Again, you're like the 'wise old sage' of this board.

Personally, I have always thought that the 'trouble' in Tijuana was exaggerated in the press, as far as tourists ever being involved. I recently returned to SoCal from Texas, and was reading all the L. A. Times reports, and also checking the USA State Department website for travel advisories.

They all advised not to travel to the border cites, etc., but once I got down there, it was different. I just think a person has to see for himself.

I've always found that the USA Reports were never really the actual reality of life at street level in any place that I've ever traveled, even in Cambodia.

(although there was this one very scary tuk-tuk ride going to a neighborhood brothel down some gravel road.)

Of course, anything can happen. When I go to Tijuana, I go into 'street wise mode' as if I'm in any dangerous city in the USA. New Orleans on the street on a dark night can be just as scary. Maybe because I expect to be mugged it never happens? I'm not sure.

Since I've found the 'safety' reports to be inaccurate, it makes me wonder if the repeated reports of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] have also been exaggerated. I've always been on the lookout for that in order to avoid contributing to it in any way; they say that Tijuana is one of the main conduits for trafficking, but I've never seen any evidence of it.

Ok, just my $.02, if it's worth even that!

Dylan

[QUOTE=Midwest33]As in like, jeans and a polo or jeans and a t-shirt? Mexicans don't really wear T-shirts, and they say "I'm an American" because of the English writing all over it. Polos either tend to be name-brand or look bad. Mexican men usually wear cheap, non-brand button down shirts--but not T shirts. To blend in, is it better to look like a tourist in a T-shirt or to expect Mexicans to know that most poor Americans (like myself) wear brand name clothes?[/QUOTE]Unless you look Mexican, they're going to spot you as a Gringo from a block away. Just wear low-key clothing, something cool - those brothel bars get rather warm when all the O2 gets depleted.

As someone else has already posted, just be polite and respectful, and you'll have a blast. It's a wonderful, sleazy place.

[QUOTE=Midwest33]As in like, jeans and a polo or jeans and a t-shirt? Mexicans don't really wear T-shirts, and they say "I'm an American" because of the English writing all over it. Polos either tend to be name-brand or look bad. Mexican men usually wear cheap, non-brand button down shirts--but not T shirts. To blend in, is it better to look like a tourist in a T-shirt or to expect Mexicans to know that most poor Americans (like myself) wear brand name clothes?[/QUOTE]

Unless you look like a Mexican, you're going to stick out. Jeans and a generic button shirt are fine. Buy a guayabera shirt if you want to try to blend. :)

Don't worry about it.

[QUOTE=Double]American shot dead in TJ while buying p*****, that is no way to go.[/QUOTE]

It beats dying in a nursing home, to my way of thinking.

[QUOTE=Double]I guess that means that the tourist that was found shot dead in TJ was a cartel memeber or a drug dealer of some sort?

Hey, all I know is that Americans are crossing the border and they are not coming back. Perhaps the news story was all wrong, or maybe what I saw on the tele is not real and I should just take your word for it.

American shot dead in TJ while buying p*****, that is no way to go.

Nothing wrong with mongering imho. I just do not believe that TJ is the same city that is was. It is not safe. The catch 22 is that the police are the ones that are responsible-how do you defend yourself against crooked cops that will kill for a couple of dollars?[/QUOTE]

I'm not aware of any innocent tourist/tourists being shot down, as of recent. If you have a link to the news report, please post.

This morning, on my way back to the border, I scanned the front page of Frontera newspaper. Last night, two Policia Municipal were gunned down and killed. Also, if I read it correctly, four other Policia were shot, but survived.

Last night, I had a blast at ABs. Ran into brother Quasi King, and breifed him on my session. Tomorrow, off to Rio! Keep your nose clean, and stay low. Life is good.

[QUOTE=Double]Any tourist turn up dead in T town as of late.....have you been watching the news or reading the paper? More dead tourist-they must have been involved in drugs, right?

Some people win the lottery, others get murdered in Mexico.[/QUOTE]

Well I do know someone who hit lotto recently.
As far as tourists, A buddy of mine wanted to know about the young kids three weeks ago who lost their friend in a "dance club" to find her later in a car heading back to the US. Her dead body filled with drugs and three cartel types? It sounded like BS and we've go no stories from the paper, but it was a person well known to some of my friends who was with the girl.
Probably just a RUMOR, but I was told about it last night and came in here to read what's been happening. I'd actually be more worried if it's true, not because of the danger in TJ, but for a lack of a story in Google searches.

[QUOTE=Dylan]CJ,

Again, you're like the 'wise old sage' of this board.

Personally, I have always thought that the 'trouble' in Tijuana was exaggerated in the press, as far as tourists ever being involved. I recently returned to SoCal from Texas, and was reading all the L. A. Times reports, and also checking the USA State Department website for travel advisories.

They all advised not to travel to the border cites, etc., but once I got down there, it was different. I just think a person has to see for himself.

I've always found that the USA Reports were never really the actual reality of life at street level in any place that I've ever traveled, even in Cambodia.

(although there was this one very scary tuk-tuk ride going to a neighborhood brothel down some gravel road.)

Of course, anything can happen. When I go to Tijuana, I go into 'street wise mode' as if I'm in any dangerous city in the USA. New Orleans on the street on a dark night can be just as scary. Maybe because I expect to be mugged it never happens? I'm not sure.

Since I've found the 'safety' reports to be inaccurate, it makes me wonder if the repeated reports of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] have also been exaggerated. I've always been on the lookout for that in order to avoid contributing to it in any way; they say that Tijuana is one of the main conduits for trafficking, but I've never seen any evidence of it.

Ok, just my $.02, if it's worth even that!

Dylan[/QUOTE]

If agencies and organizations who monitor such things do not err on the side of caution, they are frightened that they'll be held liable if something does "happen."

Unfortunately, America does not have a decent track record of holding people responsible for failure to exercise common sense. If DHS doesn't tell you that a satellite might fall out of the sky and hit you on the head then they're not covering their ass because if it does happen and they failed to take all reasonable steps to warn you then attorneys can open a new vein of gold.

It's interesting to note that NOWHERE on the US governments travel advisory notices will you find any warnings about travel in the United States. I wonder what we should tell people who are interested in visiting the States about safety when traveling in high risk areas, about the drug trade, drug violence, kidnappings, child abductions, scams, abusive police, corrupt government etc.

I remember when driving on the freeway could get you killed and even in recent years there have been random killings of innocent motorists on Southern California freeways as well as other areas of the country like Georgia and Florida. That shit does not happen much in Mexico.

The best place to have wanton disregard for the failure to exercise common sense is when you are in bed, so far under the covers that there isn't even a lump in the bed. Maybe you could get up and go to the bathroom every once in a while but make sure you read all the warning labels on everything you use because "something" might happen.

If you plan on venturing outside just remember that it is a perilous world we live in and you'd better have your insurance in place on your life, your car, your house and your work. Read all the labels before using anything, and check with your attorney before doing or saying anything because you never know; "something" might happen.

Common sense is "common" because the basics are things everyone should be familiar with; don't touch a hot stove, don't [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] into the wind etc. Personal security in Mexico is very much a common sense matter, the same as in the good old USA except in Mexico, the cops, the military and the narcotraficantes have taken their fight to the streets. The narcotraficantes realize that attacking tourists does not further their goals because it's not the tourists who are turning up the heat on them, it's the government.

You might say: "Yes Country John, but there are more bad guys in Mexico than in the USA." to which I would call bullshit. Bad guys are bad guys. As in any part of the world, when you walk the back streets at night you expose yourself to a higher level of risk and therefore you are responsible for exercising a higher standard of care when it comes to "common sense" and personal security. If you fail to do this, blaming the good people of Mexico for the result is an injustice to them and a denial on your part of where the responsibility really lies.

Retail in America is suffering from a lack of confidence on the part of the American consumer. I'm certain that people are becoming increasingly aware of the fact that they were paying out good money for crap too. Society became a "throw away" society and Walmart figured out that, in many cases, it's cheaper for you to buy another one instead of going through the hassle of returning the piece of shit.

I'm glad people are finally figuring this stuff out.

Well, Mexico still offers a substantial savings over the shit you buy State-side and they got great accommodations, food, beautiful scenery, world class service and an excellent attitude. They are also doing much more to root out narcotraficantes than people are willing to give them credit for; people are dying in the effort.

American retail wants you to stay home and spend your money at the mall, not travel to Mexico. They want you scared shit-less. They want you to think the worst. So they take an incident and make it sound like the bad guys were actually looking for you but found these victims instead.

I don't mean to rant, it just happens from time to time and this one of those times.

My advice is to get the common sense stuff working for you and enjoy your trip. If American retail deserved your money, they would have been taking better care of you as a consumer a long time ago.

The good people of Mexico know they have a problem. What they need is a bit of encouragement, an acknowledgment that people recognize their hard work and a bit of support for the immense effort they put into making your vacation enjoyable.

Crooks are crooks, but you already know that. Remember that you're going to run into them anywhere. You might be a crook. The waiter who short changes you a few bucks, the girl who changes the deal in the room, this is what you should expect from dealing with the bars and the girls. You don't get that treatment generally in Mexico. The service is outstanding on a normal routine.

Be safe and be nice
Country John

As others have noted, the locals can sport a Norteamericano a mile away. So trying to pass for a Tijuana resident is futile. As for blending in with others who patronize the Zona Norte, a good place to start would be leaving your shorts at home. I favor Dockers or similar trousers because they are a little dressier than jeans, but they don't scream rich tourist. Dockers also feature thinner fabric than jeans, which comes in handy if you're sitting with a girl and she's inclined to give Mr. Wood some manual attention. As for shirts, I favor short sleeve shirts with buttons and a pocket. Again, slightly dressier than a golf shirt without being too much. The pocket is a handy place to keep a few dollars easily accessible when I sitting down. That way I can pay the waiters without flashing a big bank roll.

Bunky

[QUOTE=Bunky]As others have noted, the locals can sport a Norteamericano a mile away. So trying to pass for a Tijuana resident is futile. As for blending in with others who patronize the Zona Norte, a good place to start would be leaving your shorts at home.

Bunky[/QUOTE]Hmmm, I dunno about the 'no shorts' thing. I accept the fact that as a large white man with red hair, the 'blending in' thing just doesn't work for me at all, so I like to be comfortable in those hot places, even if I stand out.

I love wearing the shorts, because I've been getting the girls to reach up the shorts/pants leg to attend to 'Mr. Happy'.

It's fun.

Dylan