General Reports

Don't go overboard. A guy face down on the ground with a gun pointed at his head is not someone with a pocketful of viagra. Don't jump to conclusions. Threre is probably more to the story.

I've walked the Zona with my girlfriend a lot over the past few weeks, both at night and during the day. I walked past groups of cops, past the police station, I've driven my car aound there etc and nothing happened.

Don't jump to conclusions. Just because someone saw a lot of police activity doesn't mean anything other than that they are a bit busier. I don't buy the story that they blame the usa for losing their weapons.

There is never an excuse to misbehave or let your guard down in the Zona. It is now and has always been a dangerous place. Co-operate and be on your way. Resist or be stoopid and spend the night in jail. Some things never change. You need to develop a mechanism for dealing with the situation.

Country John

It's funny how we all have different perceptions. I live only a few blocks from Zona Norte, and I am there everyday. I haven't noticed anything different.

CJ,

Is very likely that police knows that you're a local, they know who's visiting the Zona and who's not, they might saw you car before, and they're not interested
in people that lives in TJ, the cops are targeting new faces, I can be months
without going to the Zona, and when I go back the people working at AB remember me, same with the waiter, and the cum boys at the hotel, and not seeing anything different doesn't mean everything is alright.
And I don't agree that TJ cops are only giving a hard time to the stupid and the drunk, that's not always the case, I know good clean people that went to the Zona and got harassed by the pigs.

One thing is certain, there is never a shortage of rumors about TJ.

Things there are always in a state of flux, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see a steady drift of less tourists since 9/11. I suspect times are pretty tight for many that used to be comfortable catering to tourists. Just look at all the places that have closed.

In the short term I believe whatever is going on is in response to pressures that are almost entirely local, that is to say Mexican. It's rare to find anyone on these types of boards that have accurate insight into what's really going on. Right now there is clearly some kind of political stress between the Feds (the newly elected president) and the Hank people (just announced for governor of baja). The different le organizations are their tools. Various groups (business, unions, drug cartels, etc.) are all jockeying for power/influence. I can't sort out all that means in my own country. How much of what goes on in the street is on orders, and how much is just individual opportunism is the result of forces us gringos just don't have any visiblity on.

Another thing that's certain, money talks. As long as we bring money, someone is going to want us to keep coming. Bad cops are bad for business.

I was in the Zona at the end of November, and as I turned the corner, I saw two white people with their arms spread on top of the car and legs spred. The cops took their time shaking them down. The whole scene seemed ridiculous. I was only in TJ for two hours or so and ran into this scene, then returned back into the US. I never stay overnight in TJ anymore, not for a couple of years.
Things have been intense before the army moved in it seems.
In fact, I was enjoying the streets mostly to myself, with only a few dozen potential customers milling about. It seemed like a good thing, having all those women available to choose from. I guess, if things were back to normal, there would be a lot more johns around too. Take the good with the bad, I guess.

2 years ago. I made 4 trips to TJ. Fly into vegas rent a car and make the 5 hour trip to tj. Had trips good and bad but on my last trip as I went thur the customs to have my id checked (no pass port need then) the guy checking started with all this shit about what I was doing and tried to make me out like I was doing something wrong and I was a piece of shit. I knew then that would be my last trip. And it was, I have found Costa Rica and for now its great and have no problems (I am sure that will change in the years to come) but as I read all the reports from TJ. Its the last place I would go. I was pulled over in a cab. The cops got (I think 10 dollars from the driver) and in my best trying to make out what the cops were saying in spanish, they were thinking about doing the same to me, but they got in the cop car and took off and the driver said "you were lucky they had to go"

[QUOTE=ChiliMike]2 years ago ...i made 4 trips to tj...fly into vegas rent a car and make the 5 hour trip to tj...had trips good and bad but on my last trip as i went thur the customs to have my id checked (no pass port need then) the guy checking started with all this shit about what i was doing and tried to make me out like i was doing something wrong and i was a piece of shit...i knew then that would be my last trip...and it was , i have found costa rica and for now its great and have no problems (i am sure that will change in the years to come) but as i read all the reports from tj...its the last place i would go ...i was pulled over in a cab....the cops got (i think 10 dollars from the driver ) and in my best trying to make out what the cops were saying in spanish , they were thinking about doing the same to me, but they got in the cop car and took off and the driver said "you were lucky they had to go"[/QUOTE]

Mike, when the border guys ask me what I was doing in TJ, I look them straight in the eye and say - "getting drunk and getting laid". They NEVER give me a hassle after that, because they know I am telling the truth. The U.S. border guys are NOT a problem - they are simply doing their jobs. The Mexican cops, on the other hand, ARE a problem.

[QUOTE=Country John]This is a good TR. My only comment is to assess carefully when the girl goes bad on the deal. Getting mad at her or pissing her off might backfire with the wrong girl. . .. . [/QUOTE]Thanks Country John - that is a good comment to keep in mind. With these types of situations, things can escalate into something potentially dangerous. It's best to keep ones cool before things get out of hand. Fortunately for me, this girl was a 1st time FOB (fresh of the boat) from the south and new to the area. I guess it would've been somewhat fair to kick her down some cash for whatever services she already provided. The better my spanish gets, the more clear and adament I'll be able to assert my expectations with fewer potential "misunderstandings". In general though, most of the girls don't want a hassle anymore than we do.

Bobisee

Read the section under Border Cities.

[url]http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Bobisee]Thanks Country John - that is a good comment to keep in mind. With these types of situations, things can escalate into something potentially dangerous. It's best to keep ones cool before things get out of hand. Fortunately for me, this girl was a 1st time FOB (fresh of the boat) from the south and new to the area. I guess it would've been somewhat fair to kick her down some cash for whatever services she already provided. The better my spanish gets, the more clear and adament I'll be able to assert my expectations with fewer potential "misunderstandings". In general though, most of the girls don't want a hassle anymore than we do.

Bobisee[/QUOTE]

Correct. Getting into their head and trying to understand where they are at as human beings helps a lot too. Sure, you're there to fuck them and they are there to fuck you but they come from a very different set of circumstances, they have different problems, different lives.

Mongers enter their lives for a brief moment, have intimate sexual relations with them, give them money then leave. Mongers can find lots to dislike about the process and so can the girls; bad press notwithstanding.

I'm not suggesting that you psychoanalyze anyone, just imagine where they are at. when you can understand them a bit better, it makles the whole experience better - trust me. I've had excellent relationships with repeat girls in the alley and in AB. Lucky for me I've had many TLN's and the opportunity to chat with them and listen to their bullshit. Some stuff rings true of course.

Never get angry with the girl. You will not win and it doesn't matter anyway. You don;t want the girls to have a bad perception at one end of the bock or the other. You are there to get laid and enjoy the experience.

About the cops: There are many bad ones out there, that's no secret. Some people are highly offended by the standard routine encounter with the cops. You're not in Orange County anymore son. You're in MEXICO. Things run a bit differently here.

Let's look at this a bit closer. They got red flashing lights, marked police cars, guns, badges and sometimes a shitty attitude. You got nothin'. Nothing except the knowledge that all the lights, badges and guns can't make someone guilty of something that they are NOT guitly of. All the marked police cars and bad attitudes can't make someone who is NOT wrong, wrong about anything.

The guy getting frisked is simply getting frisked. If he's not stoopid, he'll be on his way none the worse for the experience. The cops have the authority to stop who they want whenever they want for any reason. WHy not embrace that and co-operate -accept it as part of the game?

The game goes bad if you are riding dirty then you have a problem, but that's not the cops fault, he caught you-right? So don't be riding dirty. Develop a mechanism.

The military is there right now assisting TJPD in running down some bad guys. The word is that they are doing a good job. You might not see it, but it's true. TJPD wants to impress the powers that be that they are doing more and so the higher profile.

If you go to TJ expecting the worst, then you'll probably pull it in. If you get stopped for "felony leaving the Zona," then PLAY THE GAME. BE CO-OPERATIVE, get the guy to the point of knowing that he got nothing on you as fast as you can. Do it by being Mr. Co-operative. With every effort to resist, even subtle gestures like a look of disgust, they go deeper looking for an opportunity. Be glad to see them!

I watch guys getting stopped all the time. Remember that cops are very much into "inspection BEFORE the fact." This means that you MIGHT be bait. But you might not be. Get the guy to the point of realizing he has nothing as quickly as possible by meaning polite, co-operative but firm. I realize it's hard to understand this, but it works and it is the truth.

I can't negate your bad experiences with the cops. Nobody can. 99.999% of them are the result of turning control of the situation over to the cops and it's no secret that they have very bad manners. They are used to dealing with disgruntled Americans who hate them and think they are crooks etc. That might be true, but you don;t have to be one of them.

A burglar will break into an unsecured property before attempting to break into a secured one. TJPD is the same. Once they realize you're are going to tumble for them, they go to work. Don't give them that opportunity.

There is no way to keep from being stopped, so expect that it will happen at some point. It's how YOU handle it that will determine the outcome. You already know the cops will try to play you. You know that going in. You know that when you cross the border. Why havn't you developed a mechanism for dealing with it?

Mongers who visit the Zona to pay for sex with prostitutes are NOT "tourists" as defined by the Chamber of Commerce. Plain and simple. You know it and I know it. So do the cops. Very few "tourists" are hassled (tourists who strut Revo with the family buying stuff etc.). Sure there are exceptions, but the ratio is probably 1000:1 with Mongers.

Mongers who visit the zona for sex with prostitutes might be there for another reason too. Maybe drugs, maybe weapons. Tell me that the Zona is clear of this stuff, go ahead; make my day.

Go there, have a good time then leave. Be smart mongers. Be nice guys. Don;t be riding dirty and develop a mechanism for dealing with the cops who, like the girls in the Zona, are a fact of life.

Country John

[QUOTE=Country John]
Mongers who visit the Zona to pay for sex with prostitutes are NOT "tourists" as defined by the Chamber of Commerce. Plain and simple. You know it and I know it. So do the cops. Very few "tourists" are hassled (tourists who strut Revo with the family buying stuff etc.). Sure there are exceptions, but the ratio is probably 1000:1 with Mongers.


Country John[/QUOTE]

Let's see the two sides of the coin!
Us mongers not tourists?
If wasn't for us TJ would be like the border limit with Guatemala, just another empty border without tourist money.
How can TJ survive without the mongers?

So they said that us mongers aren't tourists, so WTF are we? "Illegal Aliens"
where do the bars, business, farmacias and restaurants get most of their incomes?
Tj is not and never was a family vacation destination for shopping, or to go to it beautiful and contaminated beaches, but certainly is a great place for adult entertainment,The Chamber of Commerce needs to do more work about claiming the sex mongers aren't tourists.
If you're a foreigner coming legal into the country and expending money you suppose to be a "tourist" Duhhh!!!!

Does TJ need toursits at all? With the maquiladoras and NAFTA, there are factories to keep the locals employed. They maybe low wage earners, but they seem to have more options available to them today then years ago.
Is tourism such a large part of the city's income? I doubt it. There are many more picturesque places in Mexico to spend your vacation. Other than for business or for women, why would you visit? If you have relatives of course.
Then there is the fact that many Mexicans who work in the US legally or otherwise, send money back to Mexico. This isn't South America. It's hard to beat the $7 Colombiana hookers in Quito, or the $30 Colombianas in Panama, in both price and attitude.
In the meantime, there is TJ.

[QUOTE=HornyTraveler]Let's see the two sides of the coin!
Us mongers not tourists?
If wasn't for us TJ would be like the border limit with Guatemala, just another empty border without tourist money.
How can TJ survive without the mongers?

So they said that us mongers aren't tourists, so WTF are we? "Illegal Aliens"
where do the bars, business, farmacias and restaurants get most of their incomes?
Tj is not and never was a family vacation destination for shopping, or to go to it beautiful and contaminated beaches, but certainly is a great place for adult entertainment,The Chamber of Commerce needs to do more work about claiming the sex mongers aren't tourists.
If you're a foreigner coming legal into the country and expending money you suppose to be a "tourist" Duhhh!!!![/QUOTE]

Mate, you're not expecting any of us here to buy into the notion that mongers are "touists" in the normal sense of the word, are you? Certainly a monger travels for pleasure and culture but the zona is not exactly a "tourist" attraction. How much of your money actually contributes to the economy of TJ? Yes, lots of money passes through the Zona. Yes, it is mostly american money but very little of it finds its way into the coffers of the government of TJ.

Let's see: the Zona is a place full of deported criminals, drugs, prostitutes, bars mongers. That's not exactly Disneyland.

The cops know that a great percentage of the people in the Zona are shopping for something other than sex.

Do you know how many cars were impounded incidental to sex crimes in TJ in the last 6 months? How does zero sound. Check the stats for your city or county.

Most of the income at the farmacias comes from elderly Americans buying their medications in Mexico, and others who have expensive prescription medicine issues. Nobody here actually believes that mongers keep these establishments in business. Do they?

I'm driving back from Soler today on the Via Rapida to Los Pinos and in front of me is a new van with California plates. Out the window in the drivers side comes a large McDonald's bag full of trash, almost bounced off my windshield.

If you read the papers, you'll know that TJ is about to begin building a very large, modern sewage treatment plant.

It's no secret that sex sells. I'm by no means "anti-Zona." But coming to a different country and going to one of the most dangerous places in Tijuana carries with it a certain amount of risk for the "tourist." When you step into the Zona you match a profile that is made up of possible druggies, pimps, pushers, and who knows what else. Americans do not get a free pass from this shit and it's arrogant to expect it, or to expect to be treated differently because you are American.

Some of the most violent criminals in Amercia were some of the cleanest cut guys out there. So everybody gets a turn on the trunk, spread-eagle. It's like a box of chocolates.

What we are dealing with here is the advantage TJPD has over the unprepared "tourist." The result of the disadvantage is loss of cash and the unjust enrichment of some crooked cops. Don;t expect the chamber of commerce to come rushing to the Zona to save you. You need to get smart about it yourself and develop a mechanism for dealing with it. Failing that, just bring some extra cash or stay home. There are plenty of noobies here every weekend to take your place.

The Zona is a place where you WILL NOT be missed. So if you like to come here, learn well what to expect and how to deal with it. The prostitutes don't care, the padrotes don't care, the clubs don't care and the cops don't care. That's the reality of it. So rather than debate what should be and what shouldn't be, it's better to bone up on what IS and then deal with that. Don't you agree?

Country John

[QUOTE=Country John]Mate, you're not expecting any of us here to buy into the notion that mongers are "touists" in the normal sense of the word, are you? Certainly a monger travels for pleasure and culture but the zona is not exactly a "tourist" attraction. How much of your money actually contributes to the economy of TJ? Yes, lots of money passes through the Zona. Yes, it is mostly american money but very little of it finds its way into the coffers of the government of TJ.

Let's see: the Zona is a place full of deported criminals, drugs, prostitutes, bars mongers. That's not exactly Disneyland.
The cops know that a great percentage of the people in the Zona are shopping for something other than sex.

Do you know how many cars were impounded incidental to sex crimes in TJ in the last 6 months? How does zero sound. Check the stats for your city or county.

Most of the income at the farmacias comes from elderly Americans buying their medications in Mexico, and others who have expensive prescription medicine issues. Nobody here actually believes that mongers keep these establishments in business. Do they?

I'm driving back from Soler today on the Via Rapida to Los Pinos and in front of me is a new van with California plates. Out the window in the drivers side comes a large McDonald's bag full of trash, almost bounced off my windshield.

If you read the papers, you'll know that TJ is about to begin building a very large, modern sewage treatment plant.

It's no secret that sex sells. I'm by no means "anti-Zona." But coming to a different country and going to one of the most dangerous places in Tijuana carries with it a certain amount of risk for the "tourist." When you step into the Zona you match a profile that is made up of possible druggies, pimps, pushers, and who knows what else. Americans do not get a free pass from this shit and it's arrogant to expect it, or to expect to be treated differently because you are American.

Some of the most violent criminals in Amercia were some of the cleanest cut guys out there. So everybody gets a turn on the trunk, spread-eagle. It's like a box of chocolates.

What we are dealing with here is the advantage TJPD has over the unprepared "tourist." The result of the disadvantage is loss of cash and the unjust enrichment of some crooked cops. Don;t expect the chamber of commerce to come rushing to the Zona to save you. You need to get smart about it yourself and develop a mechanism for dealing with it. Failing that, just bring some extra cash or stay home. There are plenty of noobies here every weekend to take your place.

The Zona is a place where you WILL NOT be missed. So if you like to come here, learn well what to expect and how to deal with it. The prostitutes don't care, the padrotes don't care, the clubs don't care and the cops don't care. That's the reality of it. So rather than debate what should be and what shouldn't be, it's better to bone up on what IS and then deal with that. Don't you agree?

Country John[/QUOTE]


I agree in part,
But come on don't tell me that the TJ government don't get money from the Zona sex and the drugs, you know everyones gets a piece of the pie, they know it's big business.
If you really think that TJ government is not taking any part of it, you must be living in another country, all the clubs, restaurants, transportation services have to pay to the government to stay in business one way or the other,
and it happens ol over the world, the money goes under the table.
most American dollars end up at the zona, you can believe different if you like.
Now can TJ survive without the mongers? of course they can, but the poverty rate would be much bigger, and yes the people of the zona do care if the mongers are not coming, go ask the girls and waiters when they all complain about low tourism coming to the area, there's a lot of people that you don't see everyday that benefits from us including government officials.
if everything was so wonderful in Mexico I guess we wouldn't have an immigration issue in the US.

I was told in the zona about the massage homes, where you go in and line up the girls for pick up, does anyone had any experience there lately?
How would you rate the girls looks 1-10?
a guy in TJ told me you can find gems in these places silicone free, but I want to find out more info, including the place name and the location in the Zona.
I'm looking to pay about same as AB and little more if the service is good with GFE, just tired of the same AB in-out rush service and the mechanical alley cats.
I want something different in a quiet environment without the bells and whistles.
Appreciate any info.