East China - Shanghai

Hi Friends,

Can somebody give me the address of Tang Dynasty Sauna?

Thank you and best regards,

Robert

[QUOTE=Beijing Fox; 1541002]Hi Friends,

Can somebody give me the address of Tang Dynasty Sauna?

Thank you and best regards,

Robert[/QUOTE]Find the location card attached. Download it to your mobile phone and show it to the taxi driver.

[QUOTE=FunSeeker90; 1540775]Hi everyone,

I like to share with you an incident that happened to me two days ago.

At around 10:30pm while returning back to my hotel from the local family mart, I was approached by a young man asking if I'm interesting in women and massage.

It was my last nite in Shanghai and I was feeling a bit frisky, hence I asked for more info. He told me that he knows a place not far from the hotel where there are pretty girls etc.

After much persuasion, I agreed. We then boarded the next taxi and he brought me to a building approx 15 mins away via taxi. As my Chinese is not very good, I couldn't recognize the name of the place, but the building is connected to a restaurant and a budget hotel.

When we got there, the man paid for the fare and we walked into the building and straight into the lift. He then pressed level 19...[/QUOTE]Funseeker,

Sorry to hear about your experience. I have warned mongers before about the KTV scams on this site and another one. Some of the other members called me an amateur, in experienced or posting false info. I love China mongering but I refuse to go to KTV for the exact same thing that happened to you. I might make an exception if I was going with Chinese locals that have been to the KTV before. My reason is just to much BS in China. I have heard so many KTV nightmares. My one Chinese friend who spoke perfect Chinese was brought watermelon, nuts, one girl no sex and what should have been no more than $30-40 USD. He get a bill of $700 USD and they would not let him leave. Long story. But, the problem with KTV through my eyes. Is you are are trapped in a room basically by yourself. They have many employees or how I see them as bouncers. When they pull that over charge robbery bullshit. You are basically trapped. How can matters be worse? If you are old and or not a fighter. You are even in a worse situation. I believe for personal safety reasons you should at least be able to say a few Chinese words like police.

Not all tauts are bad. It was you putting yourself in a taxi with a stranger and KTV that was bad. When the taut paid for the taxi that is a red flag! Now you owe taxi money and the taut will kill you before he will let you leave without paying back that taxi money plus interest. I would have quickly paid that taxi for my own safety. Sex in a KTV although it happens is another red flag. At a legit place this will never happen even if they have girls that you can take back to your hotel. First you have to get out of there. But even if you go to the police. Most likely they do not speak english. Second what if the club is friends with the police? So for you. I would just call the credit card company and a version of what happened.

When I go exploring in China or anywhere. I have a dummy wallet with limited cash, no credit cards or ID just limited cash. I keep cash for day in my sock and a copy of passport in my other sock. I am prepared for a robbery. Because when you are exploring areas you never been especially in red light areas. You should be prepared for robbery. I take $2000 USD and leave it my hotel safe. I do not touch this money. This is my emergency fund. I use my debit card to with draw money each day and try not to bring my cards with me. If I lose my debit card or I get robbed. What would I do for money? People don't think about this but they should.

I was in Dong Guan last year. I was exploring and found a woman taut. She told me 5 minutes walk to her place that has 20 girls to choose from. I felt she had a good heart. So I followed her. Yea it was more like 8 minute walk but down and around so many streets I did not know how to get back by myself. Any way she takes me to basically an alley and there were 15 guys standing in the alley. I was thinking I am dead. Turns out they were customers. LOL. Went in and it was just as she said. Everything was fine. But it definitely could have went bad for me. There are many places in China like Shen Zhen that have clusters of apartments with tauts that bring in an apartment. Although there is always a chance of danger. For me personally I feel this is safer. Because you are in an apartment which is a residence. I am prepared to fight my way out each time I go. Most they would have in an apartment may be 2-3 guys. Where at the KTV there could be 20 guys.

You learned you lesson. Just be more prepared next time. If you had a dummy wallet you would have not been in this mess. I have been in Shanghai before and loved it. Mongering there is not cheap though.

Regarding KTV's it seems like simple common sense, if you think about it, to avoid being being ripped off. Where is the KTV? Is the establishment busy? Is it out in the open or hidden away? Is it in a hotel? International or local? How many stars? I've been to a lot of KTVs in China (dongguan, guangzhou, wuxi, tianjin, jianjiang) and I never been ripped off. I am talking about going by myself. I always check if the place has a reputation to keep, and if its a business that has been going on for several years. You can honestly tell though. The most dodgy KTV I have ever been to was actually in busan korea and tokyo. And even than I only spent 200usd there. My Chinese is like that of a 1 year old level FYI. Perhaps shanghai has more scams happening, but shanghai does have reputable KTVs with take-out (before the crack down).

Hi,

Does anyone know Manhattan's opening hours? I went there tonight around 8 and it was all closed (I thought it was opened on Sundays?)

Thanks,

Mike

1. Never Follow a Tout.

2. If you are ever "required" to sign something KTV or otherwise, sign with not your own signature and report the card stolen if you are engaged in a gray area activity.

3. If you call your credit card company and tell them it was fraud and the receipt you signed said 35RMB, they will remove the charge and leave it up to the merchant to prove otherwise.

4. See #1

[QUOTE=TomSf; 1541255]Funseeker,

Sorry to hear about your experience. I have warned mongers before about the KTV scams on this site and another one. [SNIP][/QUOTE] Tom, congratulations on not using the term 'scouts' any more. But the word is 'touts' not 'tauts'. Touts is a term used all over the world and is not unique to this site.

But seriously, don't be so paranoid.

Other posters on this site have repeatedly told you of the logical precautions to take when mongering. Now Stinkyfeet and Stegram are adding their wisdom too. You have written your $700 KTV scam story repeatedly on this forum.

I would add one further piece of advice to you. Do not think that you can fight with Chinese guys, regardless of your age and fighting ability. You would be fighting against multiple guys who probably have knives (unless of course you are One Wing Low). This is just how it is in China.

[QUOTE=Ikksman; 1541507]Tom, congratulations on not using the term 'scouts' any more. But the word is 'touts' not 'tauts'. Touts is a term used all over the world and is not unique to this site.

But seriously, don't be so paranoid.

Other posters on this site have repeatedly told you of the logical precautions to take when mongering. Now Stinkyfeet and Stegram are adding their wisdom too. You have written your $700 KTV scam story repeatedly on this forum.

I would add one further piece of advice to you. Do not think that you can fight with Chinese guys, regardless of your age and fighting ability. You would be fighting against multiple guys who probably have knives (unless of course you are One Wing Low). This is just how it is in China.[/QUOTE]

I have read a few stories like this on the internet: guy meets a tout, ends up in a sexual situation, and is then threatened physically and / or blackmailed. It seems that none of the guys are comfortable going to the police, but the reason for this is not entirely clear to me (nor is it a great mystery either. We have all been disappointed by the police at some time in our lives! )

My question is this: are there scams in China to avoid where the "tout" is a pretty woman? A girl one meets while shopping? Who sets the guy up for the same type of ill treatment?

This happened to me once in Hungary about 8 years ago. Two gorgeous young women, whom I met strolling down the street in a fashionable neighborhood after dinner, invited me for a drink as a prelude to steamy sex. I took them for high class working women, and I was delighted by the offer. We went to a night club and as we were just starting to get friendly, a waiter showed up with two bottles of Champagne and two bottles of cognac- none of which had been ordered. I took a moment from my groping activities to inquire why these bottles were on my table, and what the cost would be. The waiter told me not to worry, at which point I got up and ran to the elevator, leaving the girls behind. I honestly did not really think about why I was running, I just knew I had to leave. There was a lot of shouting (even though none of the bottles had even been opened) and an absolutely huge guy appeared from the kitchen and started to chase me, at which point the elevator doors closed. When I got to the street level, I ran to my hotel (about half a mile away) as fast as I could. Later on, I checked out on the internet that these scams were common in Budapest, and that the US Embassy actually warned male tourists about the activity. People were typically billed in the thousands of dollars for the wine and liquor, and taken from ATM to ATM to pay the bill when they failed to have adequate cash. I considered myself to be very lucky that evening.

Is this something that happens in China these days as well?

[QUOTE=Forest; 1541541][SNIP] My question is this: are there scams in China to avoid where the "tout" is a pretty woman? A girl one meets while shopping? Who sets the guy up for the same type of ill treatment? [SNIP]

Is this something that happens in China these days as well?[/QUOTE]The answer is yes, although I have not heard of it happening where I am in Shenzhen.

The advice given by guys on this forum is, if you meet a girl, NEVER go to a bar or restaurant recommended by the girl. Simple!

Cheers

For starter, I'm not a tout. I've lived abroad for a long time and am in Shanghai for a short time period. I speak native Mandarin and Shanghainese. I know a few very good local sauna places which offer good services. I can introduce you and go with you so that you don't spend a long time searching for good services. If interested, you can pm me or [blue][Email address deleted by Admin][/blue]

[u][b]EDITOR's NOTE[/b][/u]: [blue]This report was edited to [u]remove email addresses in the text[/u]. Please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue]

[QUOTE=Forest; 1541541]My question is this: are there scams in China to avoid where the "tout" is a pretty woman? A girl one meets while shopping?

Is this something that happens in China these days as well?[/QUOTE]Women also used as touts very often here in Shanghai. Just search for "tea house scam" or "nan jing lu scam" and you will find several things like that.

The Nan Jing Lu shopping street is famous for pretty girls who will start to talk with you and offer you different kind of service:

- The "massage scam". The girls will come over and offer you a sexy massage with pretty girls. If you like to be scamed, you just can follow them to a "black" massage shop, have a session there and pay 10K to 20K for a session worth 300 RMB (and the same "strong Chinese guys" will show up to charge you the fee! I start to count last time when I was there with a german friend, and we counted 23 times "massage" offers while we passed the pedestrian street from start to end (we both looked like western tourists who are borned to be cheated in China).

- The "tea house scam". The girls will tell you they are students who want to practice english, than you go to a tea house or restaurant around together, have some tea or food and they will show you a bill with 2 to 5 000 RMB (what should not be more than 200 to 300 RMB). Here you have nearly no chance, because the tea house or restaurant will also offer some incredible expensive tea or dishes, so even the police will not be able to check, if you eat or drink that or not, so most time you have to pay or even with police you can only figure out a compromise to pay 50.

- The "art student scam". Nearly the same than the tea house scam, only different is that they will pretend to be art students who want to practice english, than go to a art gallery, drink some tea there and than. (check out "tea house scam).

- The "KTV scam" will start the same way than art and teahouse scam. A pretty girl will talk with you, she want to practice her english, than you will have a coffee with her, than later she want to go singing with you, she will bring you to a very cheap Karaoke place (only 50 RMB per hour) , than after some drink you will have the invoice for some thousand RMB for everything and the girl will be very surprised, that it is so expensive.

You should know, that these "girls" don`t work "independent"! They are part of a "scam-group". This means while you go around with her, there will be at least one to three guys around who will make sure it will follow up to a big money deal at the end! So even if you decide which restaurant to go, the guys in the background will clear a "overpriced" deal with the restaurant while you having dinner with the girl. Try to go to Kentucky or Mc Donalds or to your hotel restaurant with the girl. Here the "colleagues" have no chance to make a deal, so you will see how hard she has to work to avoid that places.

So first recommondation: never follow any tout!

If you did already jump into that trap, best way to come out:

- First way: don`t bring too much money and no cards to pick up more with you. They will also guide you to the hotel to get your cards and pick up more money, but as soon as you enter the hotel lobby, you can ask the stuff at the counter to call the police for you, than your "bodyguards" will leave, trust me.

- Second way: provide less cash, pay with credit card, than announce that deal as a cheating where they rised up the amount and call the money back.

After you left the location, remember the number and street, go to the hotel and ask the stuff there to call the police to solve the problem and for get back your money. Than there is a good chance that one of the "blackmail team" who has "shadowed" you after you payed to make sure there will be no upcoming trouble will show up and promise to solve the problem, because he is a "friend" of someone who is involved. If not, than the police at least will close that "club" and you have a good chance to get back your money by this way. But for that, there is one rule. Prostitution is forbidden in China, so NEVER ever tell the police you had sex for money there! Your position is: went there, drink, sing, talk, but not more. Than they threatend you to pay! The gangsters also will never tell the police something about prostitution, because they also want to avoid getting prisoned for that, so you should not be stupid to be the one who admit to a crime!

[QUOTE=Ikksman; 1541551]The advice given by guys on this forum is, if you meet a girl, NEVER go to a bar or restaurant recommended by the girl. Simple!

Cheers[/QUOTE]Sounds simple, but it isn`t like that every time. That advise will not solve all the potential problems. They often work as a team, so even if you select the restaurants, her "team members" in the background will find a way to overcharge you, as long as it is not a very "clean" place. I would advice to go to your hotel restaurant, because they will not be able to agree to a "overcharge" deal billed to your room. Or Mc Donalds, Kentucky, Pizza Hut or another brand like that, because than there is no chance to find a "overpriced" dish which they can charge to you.

[QUOTE=Shanghai Guide; 1541640]The Nan Jing Lu shopping street is famous for pretty girls who will start to talk with you and offer you different kind of service:

- The "massage scam".200 to 300 RMB). ![/QUOTE]Yes last time I counted 12 offers on a quick walk from Bund to Le Meridien hotel. The girls are easy to spot and easy to blow off.

The bag / watch salesmen were even more of a nuisance though. Finally I beckoned one particularly aggressive bag seller over. He had been pestering me for a about 400 metres. I said " I don't want your bag but do you know what I really want ". He replied " No ".

I want you to Fuck off and get out of my sight ". I assume the words that came out of his mouth therafter were equally unpleasant. I didn't really care. A good walk had been spoilt.

Sadly for all the police on that street they do nothing to clean up the garbage that walks up and down the street with all their rip off games.

[QUOTE=Forest;1541541]This happened to me once in Hungary about 8 years ago. Two gorgeous young women, whom I met strolling down the street in a fashionable neighborhood after dinner, invited me for a drink as a prelude to steamy sex.[/QUOTE]Isn't this quite common in Thailand?

This happened to me once in Bangkok about 8 years ago. Two gorgeous young women, whom I met at Cockatoo after dinner, invited me for a drink as a prelude to steamy sex.

[QUOTE=Shanghai Guide;1541643]Sounds simple, but it isn`t like that every time. That advise will not solve all the potential problems. They often work as a team, so even if you select the restaurants, her "team members" in the background will find a way to overcharge you, as long as it is not a very "clean" place.[/QUOTE]Take the girl out on a romantic dumpling stand. I would love to see how many dumplings they would have to charge to get several thousand rmb! Haha.

Best tactic if you got time to burn, waste there time! Drag the girl from shop to shop from morning until evening, than say you need to need to visit the police!