Chiang Mai

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]
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They expect 18,000 Thais per day on Doi Inthanon to see the frost on the flowers. I managed to talk my GF out of that trip. The idea of spending a day going up what amounts to a big hill to look at some frost seems as exciting as having a root canal.
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[/QUOTE]
For those who do normal holiday/touristy things,
CM has many things to 'pay thiao' including caves, hot geysers, orchid farms, handicrafts, ruined temples, elephant treks, etc.
I had a good time going to Doi Inthanon.
Waterfall, tropical rain forest, beautiful gardens, historic magnificent monument, etc. The GF at the time (now ex-GF) enjoyed the day.

Gee - if they were so impressed by "frost" they should see some of this DAMNED SNOW! Been so cold I'm up to 5 layers and feel like the Pillsbury doughboy

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]
I did manage a small victory in the 2-tiered pricing battle when I managed to get in to the CM Zoo as a Thai because of my work permit stamp in my passport. I plan to try it next at the Grand Palace when I take my visiting niece there next week. I would suggest to anyone who is legit here, to try this elsewhere, like national parks and see if you have any luck.[/QUOTE]

I use my Thai driver's license to avoid the two tier pricing. Up North they have these damn private attractions like the Buddha Museum and the Hall of Opium which charge Farang's 200 THB and Thai's 100. I just refuse to gve them my business. Screw em!

[quote=retired army]i use my thai driver's license to avoid the two tier pricing. up north they have these damn private attractions like the buddha museum and the hall of opium which charge farang's 200 thb and thai's 100. i just refuse to gve them my business. screw em![/quote]

one over-zealous thai nazi ticket girl did put me throught the 3rd degree until her supervisor saw that i was a prof at chula and was duely impressed. i said in thai to my gf, loud enough so the girl hassling me could hear that i probably paid more in taxes here every month than she makes as a salary.

i'm not against 2-tier pricing for tourists or even non-tax-paying foreign residents. it's everywhere. in india, the taj mahal was 5 rupees for indians and i think 150 for foreigners when i was there. but, if you're a expat, paying taxes you should be treated the same as locals. i'm going to koh samet next month. it will be interesting to see if i can do this again.

Let me add to this. If you are livng and working in Thailand then in most cases you can avoid the farang upcharge by showing your work permit and/or social security card. Tell them that you are not a tourist and pay taxes like Thais do. On a recent trip to Kanchanaburi province this worked for me at a Khmer Temple Ruin and at Sai Yok National Park. Both places took a bit of pleading but it was succesful. At Sai Yok Noi I beleive the Thai price was 20 baht and Farang price 200. It adds up.

[quote=old thai hand]
i'm not against 2-tier pricing for tourists or even non-tax-paying foreign residents. it's everywhere. in india, the taj mahal was 5 rupees for indians and i think 150 for foreigners when i was there. but, if you're a expat, paying taxes you should be treated the same as locals. [/quote]

150 ruphees is $3 and after driving all day to get to agra i wouldn't complain about the surcharge. but to pay extra at some already overpriced tourist trap gets my goat. usually at the government sponsored venues there is no two tier pricing. the two tier pricing seems to be at the profit motivated places.

[QUOTE=Retired Army]150 Ruphees is $3 and after driving all day to get to Agra I wouldn't complain about the surcharge. But to pay extra at some already overpriced tourist trap gets my goat. Usually at the government sponsored venues there is no two tier pricing. The two tier pricing seems to be at the profit motivated places.[/QUOTE]

Many government institutions also have 2-tiered pricing: National Museum, Grand Palace, all National parks etc. For example, Koh Samet was 50 baht across the board for both Thais and Farang when I first came here. Then under Taksin, they suddenly raised it to 300 for Farang.

Hey, it exists in sin sord, too. If my GF married a Thai, he'd get her for about 100,000 and 5 baht of gold, maybe less. If I marry her, it will be at least 500,000 and 10-15 baht of gold.

Now that's 2-tiered pricing!

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Many government institutions also have 2-tiered pricing: National Museum, Grand Palace, all National parks etc. For example, Koh Samet was 50 baht across the board for both Thais and Farang when I first came here. Then under Taksin, they suddenly raised it to 300 for Farang.
Hey, it exists in sin sord, too. If my GF married a Thai, he'd get her for about 100,000 and 5 baht of gold, maybe less. If I marry her, it will be at least 500,000 and 10-15 baht of gold.
Now that's 2-tiered pricing![/QUOTE]
My girl friend was long separated but still legally married to Thai ex husband.
I had to pay a steepish price to get her divorce all signed sealed and delivered at time when he was trying to suck money for his father's operation. Fortunately he didn't know about her new Farang boyfriend or the price would have sky-rocketed.

[QUOTE=Retired Army]It has warmed up quite nicely in Chiang Mai. I actually used the fan in my room last night. For Farangs a light jacket is all you need. .[/QUOTE]


Actually, CM (the city, not sure about the mountains) was not the focus of the distress. It was center further north in Chiang Rai and most of those mountain areas that was the main concern--reports of deaths from the cold are from CR.
But I do agree that seeing the locals all bundle up in 60 degree weather is laughable as I too am from Canada.


PT

I too am a Canadian & 7 years ago i went 2 the Bahamas & hell no it wasnt a mongering trip bc black caribbean countries & women are not what i call places i would go & women i find remotely attractive,but i found it hilarious on that trip when somedays it was in the mid 60s-low 70s with a breeze & the natives are wearing toques,samething happened in Cuba 2 decembers ago when it went down 2 low 60s & the resort staff complaining it was mucho freol/very cold while i was drinking cold cocktails while wearing shorts

I know things are slow up here but only reports on how cold it is up here. There is some sanook to be had !! :-)

Been back in town about a month now. Till about the 26th or 27th the bars were above average in attendance by farangs. Then the New Yr holiday hit. Combine that with the freaking flower festival and things have really picked up. Loi Kroi teaming with punters the last two nights. Went to the Beer Bars inside the Boxing Complex. And they were VERY busy last night. Some of the MP girls have told me things are slow at Pandora and Ping Payon. Surayai and Nancy busy as always with Thais, Koreans, and Chinese. Girls in the bars really haven't changed the prices that much in the BB's anyways. But Foxy Lady, and the remodeled Star Six, are NUTS. Foxy---600Bht BF. Poo Ying wanted 3500Bht LT! Then a little cutie in Star wanted the same for LT and 1500Bht for ST !! 500Bht BF. I quickly protessted with my feet. Wait till Low Season gentleman. Course in Foxy 3 nights ago saw 5 men of asian persuasion plunk down the BF and walk out proudly with their purchases. Guess they don't mind paying ridiculous prices. Me, I have called up my LT regulars and hunkered down for the rainy season when prices are normal.

Continued from the Isaan report at
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Chiang Mai and Lampang (North Thailand)

Chiang Mai

General:
You do not have to believe popular Thai propaganda and colorful brochures citing CM as the "Rose of the North", etc. Apart from a few boxes of flowers on the side of bridges it is a pretty grim, usual, polluted Thai town that just happens to have lots of foreign visitors. The traffic is incessant, crossing the roads is a nightmare, and most temples are hidden behind some new faceless concrete structure. (And if you have seen 200 temples in your life, just one more is not going to be a great attraction anyway.)

The only good thing about CM is that the locals are so used to foreigners that you will feel much more comfortable staying more than a few days, than most about anywhere else in Thailand. They are rude as usual, but at least the Thais won't stare at point at you: "Look, a farang! How ugly!"
And there is some meat too, if you look around. For more, see below.

Transport:
CM has an international airport, a railway station and a major bus station. Train runs to Bkk only (eg. you cannot go directly to Udon by train) but bus connections are frequent to all parts of the country. The "Arcade Bus Station" is located 3km NE, and the train station 1 km E of the siti. Both are serviced by cheap local public transport, both buses and songtaos (pick-up truck). Samlo (tuk-tuk) to the siti from the bus terminal is 60-80B, from the train 50B. Red and green songtao run to the bus station and red songtao to the train. Local fare is 10B. The easiest to board these is at the Warorot market terminal, near the river. However, Thais can be most unhelpful in assisting foreigners to use public transport in CM.

Accomodation:
As the siti is a main backpacker destination, lots of cheap accomodation is available and quality usually good. Fan rooms from 150B, aircon from 300B, all centrally located in the back-streets of down-town.

Food:
As comfortable it might be for first time visitors, the food scene does not compare with "real Thai" cities, such as Kon Ken. In CM the food is expensive, watered down to farang tastes and cheap foodstalls are uncommon. However, menus in English are most common as is western food. Restaurants with menu only in Thai seem reluctant to serve foreigners.

Meat:
As I have remarked earlier, in touristy centres resentment and bias against foreigners is commonplace and brothels catering to locals often will not easily serve westerners. We have to understand this as of course our presence can irritate asians. We are loud, unruly and have different temperament to theirs. Your best bet is to go with a local (even a friendly taxi driver will do) and keep very low-key. Apart from that the town is supplied with a reasonably large number of Pattaya-style beer bars and even a go-go bar. The nearby town of Lampang is quite a different story, as few foreigners venture that far. There the only places available are the Thai style and you will be serviced (although with premium cost).

Area #1: Nimmanhemin road, soi 11 (3km NW of siti) is unfortunately experiencing rapid development and most of the delightful brothels have been torn down. Only two remaining, foreigner price 500B/ST. Service starts 6pm. Ugly girls too.

Area #2: Hatsadi-Sewi road (1km N of siti), near Novotel Hotel, is the main ST area at the moment. Many karaoke brothels and some pretty girls too. ST 5-600B (incl. room) for foreigner. Unfortunately, you may have to try several places before one accepts you. Even then service might be unnatural and shitty. Also, late at night it is a downright rough area, so be careful.
Other possibilities:

1./ Rungfa Karaoke, near the Imperial Mae Ping hotel. Presently accepts foreigners (although you will likely be the only one there) for 1500B/ST (one hour) +room 100B. it is an upmarket sort of place with lots of pretty girls and good service. Sign outside is only in Thai and so is the menu. Beers are around 80B but you don't have to buy one. Just sit down and pick a girl from the many who sit around the room. They will drive you to a nearby hotel. You pay room price 100B at reception. Once inside the room you will have to pay the girl "up-front" (very profesional). Then she will call her boss that you are okay. After you finished she will call the boss again tha she is still okay and they will come to collect her. You won't need transport because you can walk to the beerbars on Rachawithi road (marked on map).

2./ The above mentioned "farang-oriented" beer bars and one gogo on Rachawithi rd. offer the usual Pattaya scene with barfines. There is one cluster of bars near the moat and another inside town near the night bazar, but same street. I think ST here is 1000B+BF 300B+drinks. So you pay same as at above. This is an expensive town for the "hobby".

3./ Soapy massage parlours in CM charge foreigners 1900-2000B and service is unpredictable. Also, is is a very Thai scene again. You might feel uncomfortable to be the only westerner.
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One particular night in C.Mai:
I found a nice Isaan-man taxi driver and he was extraordinarily helpful. First we had a look at some brothels on Hatsadi-Sewi Rd. Out of the 5 we tried only one said okay to farang but the girls were not much to look at and also the place was packed with Thais so I decided against it. So we aimed for Rungfa. The first girl who sat down next to me looked okay, well dressed, clean and smiley, around 25 but childless (I asked). Good enough but it is quite a different feeling to squeeze a young girl's tits.

So, I asked her to send me another girl, a long haired very slim 20yo. No probs at all and she came over. Looked allright, tall, white, fresh and pretty. We headed to the ST hotel. The room was quite good for the price, clean and comfortable. We showered together. My girl was not shy, with nice sml/med sized bangers, silky skin but quite flat ass and soft belly. She was nice but wouldn't suck.

Friendly service but not too enthusiastic. We spent about 40 mins in the room total. For the cost of 1500 fuck+100 room+100 taxi=1700B it is surely not great value. However the service was far superior and the girl prettier than the one from the beer-bar for 300BF+1000ST+150 drinks =1450B which I tried some time before. And surely better than the Nana Plaza deal of 600BF+1500ST+400room+250drinks =2750B.
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Lampang (90km S. of CM)

General:
Typical Thai town with unstopping traffic, pollution and general mayhem. Has a reasonably attractive riverfront, a central shopping area okay night-market and good value accomodation. You will possibly bear it for a day or two but you will feel strange, nevertheless. (Thais gossiping behind your back, or even before you: "Look, a farang! How ugly!") Very few foreigners visit this town and really there isn't much to see or do, apart from the "hobby"..

Transport:
Once you make it to the Arcadia Bus station in CM you can catch any bus going to Bangkok as they will stop in Lampang. Trip about 2 hours. Fare 60-70B, depending on class.

Accomodation/food:
Lampang excels in this aspect. If you consider the Udon-Thani style clocktower the centre of town, either to the west or the east the streets are lined with hotels of varied quality but good value for price. Also to the west you will find the night-market and the tourist-office, both near the TipChang hotel. Also, the food tends to be of more authentic quality and cheaper than in CM.
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A night of rampage in Lampang (by ugly idiot farang man):

At night it may be difficult to find taxis in this town. However there is a 24 hr taxi stand neat the Pin hotel, east of clocktower. The driver was friendly enough. He mentioned the places with the "bad rooms" and places with "good rooms" and I opted for the latter. We headed towards Chiang-Rai to the outskirts of town, not far from the Regent Loj Hotel. Arrived at an apartment block of some sort. Here different doors were opened for me with women of different ages inside rooms.

Surely, all rooms totally awesome, clean and modern. Better than mine! I passed on the 30yo ones for 500B and chose a 22 yo for 700B. (Maybe you could get a 60yo for free?) Your experience may vary in the following aspect but the service I received was quite shitty, even for the 700B ($20), though the girl looked allright.

But as somebody has mentioned earlier, you need the shitty ones just to feel the difference and appreciate the real good ones. Out of 10, shitty are about 2, average 6 and excellent only 2, on average.

After this, we went to the house of some-sort of "papasan" (as in Nakhon Panom) who could call up girls on the handphone. I specifically requested 19-20 yo ones and he promised them for 700B. Soon, two old women about 30yo or more, turned up on motorbikes, their hair done up in ponitails like schoolgirls. I thought they were making a fool of me so, I sent them away. Both looked very angry and so did the papasan. Nevermind.

As last stop I wanted to check out a soapy-massage. There is only one in town. Very quiet, only 4 girls in the fishbowl and no customers. Papasan here was friendly enough. Prices started at 850B for a fatty looking woman and a young girl costing 1200B. I always choose the young, pretty one, so it was an easy choice.

Room was of third-world class and so the service, totally marginal. The idiot girl complaining non-stop, about everything. I got my fuck but was so angry that the 100B I had in my pocket for tip I gave to the papasan boss who happily thanked it. After all he was nice. Again, your experience can vary and mine is no guide at all.

Plus there are still the places with "bad rooms" which need to be checked out.
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The "shitty end":

As the bus ride up to CM was extremely long I decided to book a sleeper train right away. There at least I can get a good sleep, so I thought. I was wrong.

As the row of passengers entered the carriage somebody already remarked "hm, there is some strange smell here...". This remark made a lot of sense later. Bedtime followed. The conductor made it up for everybody, as usual, with nice crispy white sheets. All the while I noticed some strange odour that innocently could have come from the nearby rubbish bin or the toilets on the corridor or even from the young couple with the crying baby nearby (as it smelled like sort of baby-shit).

The most interesting was though that the smell was most intense inside my little compartment. I figured innocently that maybe a used nappy having rolled under the seats somehow. Was about to think of something nice and going off to sleep to the rhythm of the wagon wheels but I suddenly became aware of some wetness around my waist area.

Did not even need to look very closely to see the ever growing brown patch seeping through the sheet. The shit was on my bed! Somebody emptied their bowels right there and the shit soaked into the mattress. It seemed so shocking that I even laughed. Funny. Here I am rolling in someone's forgotten excrement. They might be looking for it.

The conductor was already asleep on top of some used bedlinen at the end of the carriage. I felt lucky to be able to explain in some broken Thai of what was happening. He seemed totally disinterested and just pushed another clean sheet in my hands. I considered my options. Throw the whole mattress out and try to sleep on the hard bunk. Possibly I would't sleep at all. And it is just as dirty anyway. Sleep is important. And I am already covered in shit anyway, there is no way to shower here. So, I spread the new sheet over the old one and tried to get some sleep. The stink had a sort of radish scent to it. And the patch now seeping through two sheets had a sort of "reddish" tint.

I like radishes, especially freshly cut on top of buttered bread. I was trying to think of that. But I just ended up counting the minutes, wide awake. By that time the conductor had barricaded himself away between two carriages and locked the doors so that nobody could disturb him. Finally, I got around an hours sleep with my "dream radish-sandwiches". However, unfortunately I vomited them all out, soon after in the train's toilet. Finally morning came, and we drew pretty near Bangkok.

To my greatest amazement the conductor after removing the shitty sheets, just packed the matress away back in the compartment without the slightest interest, the dreary package waiting for it's next victim.

By that time I got used to the stink and didn't feel it that strong. However, noticed that the other passengers pulled awy from me on the subway to Sukumvit rd. Finally arriving in the hotel the receptionist started coughing and asked me if I had eaten radishes recently. I said yes, but unfortunately they all came out not long after, all courtesy of State Railway of Thailand. She didn't understand. Nevermind.

Interesting experience though. Wouldn't give it for a bagful of shit.
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BTW while in C.Mai, I managed to save up some moni by eating only the half of a plate of fried rice for lunch and putting the rest in a plastic bag , saving it for dinner. Also, I sat down to sing songs at the Tapeh gate. They paid me to stop. So, soon saved up enough for a cheap flight Bkk. >to P.Pen. Certainly better scene than CM. Story continues there.
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Hi T A,

What a great report. Thanks for taking the time and effort. I was in CM a couple of years ago and really enjoyed it there. I found the girly scene a bit subdued but the experiences I had were generally good. Your report really took me back there and made me dream of another journey.

And the shitty train story, what can I say, priceless!

Again-thanks for the entertaining read.

AM

Excellent report as always, Humble Turd. I know you avoid travel by air, as do I (for both financial and experiential reasons), but I noticed your recent travels were from Isaan to the North or vis versa. In this case due to the difficulties of ground transport between the two regions - terribly long bus journeys over small mountain ranges or train to Bkk and back up - I would recommend air travel.

Nok Air provides [url=http://www.nokair.com/s1000_obj/front_page/page/19.html?content_category_id=81]regular flights[/url] between Udon Thani and Chiang Mai for I think around 1,600-1,800 baht.

Besides the mentioned karaoke near Imperial Mae Ping, there are still some more around the Chinag Mai Plaza Hotel.

I think there are at least 3-4 karaoke pick ups near the main entrance to the Plaza Hotel. I was there last June, picked up from a shop in front of the CM Plaza Hotel entrance, and the price was 1500ST and you get to take the girl back to your room or can use a ST room nearby. I paid directly to the store. Had about 15-20 girls to choose, other nearby shops had about 10-15. Some okay ones, but did not have super class. The price was same 1500ST. Foreigner friendly I think as least to me and my friend.