Kyiv

Mangus

You are new to this planet aren't you?

JQ

Visiting Kiev soon for a business meeting and will be staying at Hotel President which is not my choice,but the place for our business sessions.

Is there anybody to comment if that hotel is girl-friendly?Any practical advice of mongerers who experienced that hotel will be appreciated.

No offense, but I'm not really looking for a GFE. Girlfriends are for a GFE and that you can get in your own country. In Kiev I am looking for an inexpensive professional. Does that lack of response mean nobody knows of such a place?

GuyfmNyk
Of course there are many cheap nonGFE options. Simply read back and ye shall see. Cheap is all relative but you can certainly get by for a few hour stint for $50, overnight sometimes as cheap as $100 for a 7 or 8. Usually after the first time it is possible that a provider will give you a better deal than the initial price. As to where simply do your homework and read the back postings.
If your time is limited I'd spend a bit more (as opposed to blowing a lot of time chasing tail unless that's your thing) so as to have a more pleasureable stay. Whatever...

The point was really more about the time than the money. At Resttown you could pick out a girl and 15 minutes later you knew if you had chosen correctly. I have found a girl there that I have subsequently met with afterwards at my hotel and it was great. But if you got the wrong girl you could go back upstairs and choose again and you were only out an hour and $50.00.

At RP if you choose the wrong girl it's basically the end of the evening at 3:00AM already back at your room. Anyway, that was why I liked Resttown.

AndyJ

I've been to Russia and Ukraine quite a lot over the course of the last four years, mostly for short business trips. During the course of that time, my Russian has got okay - somewhere between reasonable conversational and an increasingly long vocab that means I can talk with most people. Whilst it's worth stressing that if you have no Russian at all you can still have a blast in Kiev, the simple truth is that the more Russian you know the more options you have (although no more than knowing some French makes travelling in France easier).

Language skills open up two avenues - girls who speak no English at all and, as discussed on the Moscow board recently, girls who speak some English but aren't too confident in their skills. If you are prepared to make an arse of yourself with these types of girls, it relaxes them and they suddenly find they can speak quite a bit of English. You need a little bit more than the standard page 1 of Learn Russian - "Hello" and "my name is..." - but not that much more. As is the case in a lot of the world, non-English speakers too often seem shy about using their English as they think their language skills aren't all that, whilst most Americans and Brits can't get over how well other people speak English.

With this second category of girl, being too fluent in Russian can be a bit of a drawback, and I've learnt to start at the beginners level of Russian with all girls and see what happens. If their English is truely non-existent, my Russian will get better; if the girls suddenly realise they can speak more English they usually seem to enjoy themselves and like a chance to practice and learn some new words. If you come across any girls in Kiev who can swear in a reasonable London accent, I like to think I have contributed in a completely useless way! Of course the best bit about speaking Russian is being able to understand what the girls are talking about in front of you - another good reason to hide your Russian skills for a bit when you first get together.

If you going to try and work the truely non-pro, non-P4P scene (although money usually plays a part somewhere), then some Russian is pretty essential and this will give you access to the whole city. However, the language thing is the least important part of the game. In EE, I think more than anywhere else I've been, it's all about the attitude. This is as true for the pros as it is regular girls. Put simply and rather obviously, the more the girl wants to spend time with you, the better your chances are. Prices will come down for semi-pros - girls would rather spend the night with someone they like and will price accordingly - they'll be a schmo she doesn't like who'll pay $300 a couple of nights down the line! It's amazing how many guys forget this in somewhere like Kiev. Dive in with the charming opening line of "how much?" and you'll get a quote the question deserves.

Spend some time with the girl, a few drinks, dance, make her laugh, compliment her a bit, a few small and usually meaningless gifts you've brought in from out of town - the same stuff you would do anywhere - and the price of the pros will come down and your chance of getting a regular girl to sleep with you on the first date will be far, far greater; the girls will be more willing once you get back to the flat too.

For the regular girls, if your time is limited, then you need to have a good story behind you too - if you are there for 5 nights and girls know this you'll struggle to get anywhere quickly (you are clearly not boyfriend material) so work on something plausible. If you want a quick screw for cash, there's plenty on offer, but if you're prepared to put a little effort in the rewards can be...glorious!

As for the LE thing, I can only call as I find. I've found Kiev to be possibly the safest place I've visited. I've never felt threatened once. That said, any city has it's dark side and whilst I've never had any problems in Russia either, I know enough horror stories in SpB to know that you need to be careful. If the LE can be grim in Russia, then there is no reason why they can't be grim in Kiev. Same rules apply everywhere - eyes open and don't [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] people off with guns. I'm not saying your Aussie friend did anything to warrant a beating, but the phrase "got pretty drunk with a bunch of English guys" doesn't immedeately suggest that they weren't drawing attention to themselves! Don't [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] off the locals!

Snowy,

It's nice to know there are other's who agree with me about how helpful it is to know some russian. It truly does open up another area and can get you into some ladies you might not know otherwise.

Keep it up.

Though Russian skills will open some doors for some girls, they will be mainly of lower class and quality.

If you wanna focus on university students and upper class of girls of some remarkable quality, they're so fed up with the local guys and their severe behaviour that they don't prefer to communicate in any sort of Russian that will remind them of their dull lives.

On the contrary, they wanna practice their English and meanwhile hearing some nice words in Russian in between the lines will make them more than pleased so as to make them laugh most of the time as a nice joke.

Obviously, knowing Russian DOES help, with all kinds of girls.

Snowy's comments are the most sensible in my opinion as he quite accurately addresses the nuances of expressing and utilizing your Russian language skills (or lack thereof) and when not to use them. His point that it isn't always best to speak fluent Russian is a good one and corresponds with Vegamars'(in my opinion grossly exaggerated) theories as well.

Still, the notion that not knowing any Russian or extremely little will not hinder your access to all top Ukrainian girls is both inane, unrealistic and silly.

There all a lot of major babes who speak extremely little or no English and yes, there are many girls of upper class and quality who don't even want to speak English even if they can. The notion that all upper class and educated Ukrainian girls hate speaking Russian is inane and ridiculous.

Can you get by without Russian? Just fine, and yes you will always find some girls that like to speak English.

Will you be able to approach every girl you fancy without Russian? No, you won't.

I am having work done in Kiev. The monthly wages for top professionals delivering world-class results is about twenty times less then what I am paying for similar labor out of Germany. When I read many reports here, it seems that not all industries enjoy the same bargain pricing, namely vacation housing and personal entertainment. I can't help but believe that a lot of you are foolishly paying hormone driven prices or certain sectors of the Ukrainian economy are terribly unique. Man, a hundred bucks in Kiev will get you the best software engineer, with a PhD, and not for a night but for a week or two!

Forget all this BS of how we are supposed to act with the women to get them to like you etc...

My question to the real experts of our hobby: In Kiev, using race-proven procurement methods, what is a fair price for a night on the town, a dive under the covers, and goodbye over a coffee in the morning?

I have never been in Kiev, so excuse me if I seem to have ridiculous expectations. But at USD 300/night in Kiev means we would be paying around USD 6000/night Munich. We aren't.

Happy Mongering!

Pepe

The situation in Ukraine is a little bit different than it is in Russia.

The hate against Russian and the preference of Ukrainian on especially the western part of the country including Lvov symbolizes their independence against Russia.

If you try to speak in Russian in Lvov for instance, it could be difficult to get a reply at all.

The official written language is Ukrainian in the whole country and recently all students in university have had the choice of selecting between Russian and Ukrainian as the language of education.

Hence, if you really wanna express a girl in Ukraine, you could try to learn some Ukrainian.

In my opinion, the language barrier is not a problem that will interfere with communication cause our real aim is not communicating at all.

At times it's much better ro understand each other..

Vegamars:

I have been to both Russia and Ukraine and yes, they are different. And the same.

Everybody has different methods of wooing girls and consequently various degrees of success.

Since this forum question was posted as information for newbies to Kiev however, I maintain that you are still better off knowing Russian than not knowing it. I think this is obvious.

In areas of Ukraine where Russians are particularly despised you may not want to speak Russian, granted... if however they don't speak English... especially a factor in smaller cities without a large student or well-educated population... they will speak Russian with you if it is the only method of communication.

Moreover, I also didn't detect the kind of hatred for the Russian language that you seem to have experienced. Admittedly however I haven't been to Lvov or the western areas of the Ukraine that you have travelled and cannot comment on that. In the center, east and south however Russian is widely spoken and accepted without a hint of animosity.

In Kiev in particular, and that is what we are talking about especially for the tourist monger, you are better off with Russian than without. It isn't absolutely necessary (especially with pros) but certainly helps.

If I can get away with speaking English with girls, I will. Obviously it is easier for me. But when making no headway with English whatsoever or a girl doesn't seem responsive to English, knowing Russian will definitely help get your foot in the door with some girls who are either not able to speak Russian or are not willing/confident enough to try their English. And besides, it maybe just me, but I think it is a sign of respect to at least try to speak a language that they understand. Making an effort, no matter how pathetic, is appreciated and may get you that indicative "fuck me" smile that you are looking for.

I've had to speak Russian to Ukrainian girls on many occassions... communication just wasn't possible with their miserable or non-existent English. Perhaps I have been only speaking to uneducated trash (your definition)... they still looked pretty damn good though.

And understanding each other, as you put it, is a form of communication. Granted communication is accomplished through many methods... but in 99% of the cases you are still going to have to speak to the girl and if all else fails, god forbid, speak a language she understands. In many cases, it isn't English.

You are obviously doing well with your method of avoiding speaking Russian and thankfully this will work with enough girls to keep you and most mongers happy. I still maintain that speaking Russian, even in the Ukraine, will open new doors and avenues to you and most certainly open a few sets of long slender perfect legs as well.

You will continue to do whatever works for you and your comments and advice are appreciated by myself and many others.

Newbies however would still be well-advised to learn some basic Russian (don't waste your time on Ukrainian unless you are planning on spending a lot of time in Ukraine) to help them achieve their goals and if nothing else, make them feel more comfortable in a country in which the ridiculous notion that "everybody speaks English" is an illusion.

Other than Premier Palace and Dnipro, you'll encounter some kind of problem for bringing a girl in, which is not so difficult to settle down.

Especially in hotels like Ukraina and Kreshatik, the hotel security tries to take control so that you'll be dependent on the private room service within the hotel.

I stayed in the Dnipro just a few weeks ago and they now also look for $20 at hotel security if you are bringing a girl up to your room at night.

Ahh, the good Doctor! I think you wrote everything I wanted to say in response to Vegamars, although somewhat more eloquently.

I sometimes wonder if I'm going to a different Kiev, and indeed Ukraine, to the one Vegamars inhabits. His point about Ukrainians having a negative attitude to Russian speaking foreigners, is just not relevant to this forum. I do a limited amount of business and consultancy throughout Ukrain and, from an international perspective, its English first, Russian second and probably French, Spanish, Italian and numerous other languages before Ukrainian gets a mention. It's not expected by anyone. In Kiev especially, Russian seems to me the main social language spoken by the locals - they may do business in Ukrainian, but they socialise in Russian.

Throughout Ukraine, the dislike of Russians does not impact on foreigners unless you speak and act like a native Russian; you simply won't be classified in the same group. It just ain't an issue!

I think the key point from a mongering perspective is the one Doctor Skank makes about showing some respect and it is always - always! - well received. Every girl I've met in Ukraine finds it hysterical that I speak Russian (I have a shocking accent when I speak quickly and sound like the guy from the CD when I speak slowly). Even if we communicate in English, they'll always be a point where she'll teach me a few Russian phrases. Any "relationship" - even in the P4P arena - is better when there is a degree of equity. The attitude of the girl is just better, she gets to feel a bit superior (or it shows some vulnerability on your half), she is more relaxed and it works....for me....although apparently only with girls "of lower class and quality". Man alive!! I can't actually believe you wrote that trash - I'm stuck in London for a while and I would chew my arm off this evening for any of the girls "of lower class and quality" I've met in Kiev, and I'm a picky bugger.

I won't be in Kiev for a while, but now it's easy for fellow WSGers to recognise me - I'm the English bloke in the club, speaking a bit of Russian, with some hideous, lower class chav on my arm!