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[QUOTE=Param Ahmad]With the female condom used as directed or even with the inner loop removed and worn as a male condom, the female condom sticks to her more than to you, so you still feel friction, making vaginal intercourse feel almost completely natural[/QUOTE]
When I tried it many years ago it felt like having sex with a plastic bag (opposite of natural). Have the manufacturers of the female condom improved the materials since then?
[QUOTE=John Dough]When I tried it [the female condom] many years ago it felt like having sex with a plastic bag (opposite of natural). Have the manufacturers of the female condom improved the materials since then?[/QUOTE]I recall reading a similar comment in an Internet blog by a female who used the female condom but still advocated using them because of the increased protection they provide. So I suggest trying the female condom again. I like the female condom when I take the inner loop out (with a [u]clean, uncontaminated[/u] finger) and use it like I would a male condom but not when the woman puts it inside her as directed by the manufacturer's instructions. If you use lubricant, put it inside the female condom, not on the outside of the condom or inside of her, although that way [u]she[/u] might miss the friction! Ironically, many women insist on the standard male condoms they're accustomed to because they feel safer with them, when in fact they'd be [u]much[/u] better protected with a female condom. I've often refused to have intercourse when the woman wouldn't use one of my female condoms, and all she had were the standard ones that leave me at risk for skin-to-skin transmission where the male condom doesn't cover. With the female condom's outer ring on the outside of her body, not even the base of the penis will come into contact with her vaginal lips where a tiny herpes or HPV lesion (wart) may be hidden you'd otherwise come into direct contact with.
Underscoring the lack of protection provided by standard male condoms is this remark by Harvey B. Simon, M.D., in an article in the March 2010 issue of [i]Harvard Men's Health Watch[/i]: "Most people with HPV [human papilloma virus, causing genital warts] don't know they have it, but can still transmit the infection to their sexual partners. Safer sexual practices can reduce the risk of infection, but since condoms don't cover all potentially infected tissues, protection is incomplete." He means standard male condoms. Also keep in mind that 1 in 4 women generally, and 65-75% of prostitutes, have HSV-2 (genital herpes) and that 90% of women who have HSV-2 are unaware of the fact that they are infected but can nevertheless transmit the infection to you.
Dr. Simon's article says a HPV vaccine, Gardasil, was approved "for use in boys in Europe and Australia, and the FDA followed suit in October 2009." [i]The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy[/i] says of genital warts, "No treatment is completely satisfactory; relapse is frequent and requires retreatment." So getting vaccinated is worth considering.
I guess few guys here bother to read earlier posts.
While its true that certain variants of HPV cause genital warts, the more worrisome thing is that certain variants of HPV cause cancer. I know, I just finished a year of treatment for Tonsil Cancer caused by HPV version 16.
As a brief synopsis, I was diagnosed in March 2009. Underwent a tonsillectomy (for diagnostic purposes) then 9 weeks of chemo starting late April 2009. In July 2009, I started 7 weeks of a combined chemo-radiation therapy, which was intended to be definitive. But I still had a lump in my neck, so I underwent neck dissection surgery in December 2009 and they found more active cancer. Consequently, I underwent another 6 weeks of combined chemo-radiation therapy starting early January 2010. This (hopefully final) treatment is now complete, so all I need to do now is recover.
HPV thrives in mucosal membranes and can cause cancer in any of them: including the cervix/penis/anus and the oral/nasal/pharyngeal regions. I'm unsure whether or not HPV can live (and cause cancer) in the esophagus, stomach, or intestines.
Read my previous posts for more info:
Post 761
[url]http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=902521&postcount=761[/url]
Post 752
[url]http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=879534&postcount=752[/url]
Post 749
[url]http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=879044&postcount=749[/url]
Post 747
[url]http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=874476&postcount=747[/url]
Post 746
[url]http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=871923&postcount=746[/url]
Existing HPV vaccines are prophylactic (only) and so are recommended only for children, before they've had sexual activity. These vaccines only protect against selected variants of HPV (including some variants that cause cancer and some variants that cause genital warts) but they do not protect against all variants of HPV that cause cancer or genital warts.
Nearly everyone who has been sexually active has been exposed to some variant of HPV. Even if you were exposed to a variant of HPV that causes cancer (or warts), this does not mean you will get cancer (or warts). I've seen some reports saying the body can clear itself of HPV, and other reports saying that HPV can remain in the body for decades (without causing any untoward effects). Chances are that everyone reading this post has not only been exposed to HPV but is also currently carrying HPV and will pass it to others; hopefully its one of the many benign variants of HPV.
[QUOTE=Yankee 617]I guess few guys here bother to read earlier posts.
While its true that certain variants of HPV cause genital warts, the more worrisome thing is that certain variants of HPV cause cancer. I know, I just finished a year of treatment for Tonsil Cancer caused by HPV version 16.
As a brief synopsis, I was diagnosed in March 2009. Underwent a tonsillectomy (for diagnostic purposes) then 9 weeks of chemo starting late April 2009. In July 2009, I started 7 weeks of a combined chemo-radiation therapy, which was intended to be definitive. But I still had a lump in my neck, so I underwent neck dissection surgery in December 2009 and they found more active cancer. Consequently, I underwent another 6 weeks of combined chemo-radiation therapy starting early January 2010. This (hopefully final) treatment is now complete, so all I need to do now is recover.
HPV thrives in mucosal membranes and can cause cancer in any of them: including the cervix/penis/anus and the oral/nasal/pharyngeal regions. I'm unsure whether or not HPV can live (and cause cancer) in the esophagus, stomach, or intestines.
Read my previous posts for more info:
Post 761
[url]http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=902521&postcount=761[/url]
Post 752
[url]http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=879534&postcount=752[/url]
Post 749
[url]http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=879044&postcount=749[/url]
Post 747
[url]http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=874476&postcount=747[/url]
Post 746
[url]http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=871923&postcount=746[/url]
Existing HPV vaccines are prophylactic (only) and so are recommended only for children, before they've had sexual activity. These vaccines only protect against selected variants of HPV (including some variants that cause cancer and some variants that cause genital warts) but they do not protect against all variants of HPV that cause cancer or genital warts.
Nearly everyone who has been sexually active has been exposed to some variant of HPV. Even if you were exposed to a variant of HPV that causes cancer (or warts), this does not mean you will get cancer (or warts). I've seen some reports saying the body can clear itself of HPV, and other reports saying that HPV can remain in the body for decades (without causing any untoward effects). Chances are that everyone reading this post has not only been exposed to HPV but is also currently carrying HPV and will pass it to others; hopefully its one of the many benign variants of HPV.[/QUOTE]Good luck with the treatment. Your advice is sound. A paper was published earlier this week in a medical journal that identified HPV as a cause of throat cancers. The risk for people with HPV was 32x above background, while the major other factor. Drinking alcohol. Was only associated with a two fold increase. Thus, HPV seems to be a very important factor causing throat cancers.
[QUOTE=Param Ahmad]The manufacturer's instructions say to remove the female condom's inner ring only for anal intercourse, but that's nonsense. Who says "Female condoms can't be used as a 'regular' condom outside a woman's vagina"? My many experiences of using them that way for vaginal intercourse proves you [u]can[/u]. And it works just fine....The female condom worn as a male condom with the inner loop removed, for vaginal intercourse, provides far more coverage and far better protection than you are giving it credit for.[/QUOTE]
It's easy to get the wrong idea about things in text and maybe I'm picturing something completely different to what you're actually talking about (and if I am, I'm sorry) ...but I've used the female condom hundreds of times and just can't work out how - or why - you would wear one as a regular condom. You must have a very, VERY wide penis! :) And anyone who has ever used female condoms will know they make LOTS OF NOISE!!! Like scrunching up cellophane. If you took the inner ring out, the condom would move more with each thrust and make even more noise than usual. That would drive me crazy.
The most common uses of the female condom for sex workers that I'm aware of are when one party has a latex allergy, for men who can't get erect enough to put a regular condom on, for men whose penises are too big to comfortably wear a regular condom and for men who don't like wearing condoms at all. (For the latter the female condom, heavily lubed, allows men to effectively fuck bareback in a plastic-lined vagina). Also, the female condom is brilliant when you have a booking with one man and more than one woman - where the guy wants to pull his dick out of one vagina and put it straight into the next woman. It protects everyone and saves changing condoms between acts.
I'm sorry, but I just don't know of anyone who uses the female condom for the added protective benefits. As I said before, it could add SLIGHT protection for the man, but adds nothing much for the woman ...for one thing, his testicles are still hitting her skin. So it stands to reason that if, for example, a man has warts on his balls, he could pass it on to the woman's anal area. Then the next guy whose balls come in contact with her anal area, could catch warts. Again, I'm NOT discouraging the use of female condoms, but I think we need to be realistic about their protective value.
[QUOTE=Param Ahmad]Your other idea about using a dental dam with a standard male condom to avoid any skin-to-skin contact might be worth a try, but I suspect the dental dam would tear enough to allow direct contact at the base of the penis....[/QUOTE]
Dental dams are very resistant to tearing. The stupid things are probably strong enough to make clothing out of! They are the dumbest idea EVER for oral sex, but pretty effective as protective penis skirts.
[QUOTE=Zircon]Good luck with the treatment. Your advice is sound. A paper was published earlier this week in a medical journal that identified HPV as a cause of throat cancers. The risk for people with HPV was 32x above background, while the major other factor. Drinking alcohol. Was only associated with a two fold increase. Thus, HPV seems to be a very important factor causing throat cancers.[/QUOTE]
This is probably a good time to bring up the risks associated with giving BBBJs. Soooo many men b*tch and moan about sex workers refusing to do natural oral (especially here in Australia, where it's not commonly offered), but really...STIs are bad enough, but is a $50 BJ really worth the risk of getting throat or mouth cancer? And for those married men out there...do you really want to increase YOUR WIFE'S risk of throat cancer, by engaging in bareback sex acts with hookers or stray pub pick-ups?
PS. Yankee: Best of luck with everything. My thoughts are with you. xxx
[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]...I'm sorry, but I just don't know of anyone who uses the female condom for the added protective benefits.[/QUOTE] Well, I do, and I wish women wouldn't give me such a hard time about using them.
[QUOTE] ...for one thing, his testicles are still hitting her skin. So it stands to reason that if, for example, a man has warts on his balls, he could pass it on to the woman's anal area. Then the next guy whose balls come in contact with her anal area, could catch warts. Again, I'm NOT discouraging the use of female condoms, but I think we need to be realistic about their protective value.[/QUOTE] I once read a female blogger's comment about getting herpes from a sore on a man's scrotum, so you may have a valid point. A female condom won't prevent contact there. The areas not protected by a female condom are more likely to be dry, though, which probably makes the risk far less. I've never gotten anything using a female condom.
[QUOTE]Dental dams are very resistant to tearing. The stupid things are probably strong enough to make clothing out of! They are the dumbest idea EVER for oral sex, but pretty effective as protective penis skirts.[/QUOTE]I suspect if I had to have intercourse with a standard male condom, eliminating all friction and allowing me to feel only pressure, and a dental dam as a penis skirt, it would seem pointless, and I'd rather have a hand job sans condom after spraying alcohol on her hands, even if the [u]idea[/u] without the [u]feeling[/u] of being inside her is still nice. With some condoms I can't even tell if I've penetrated without looking with my eyes. All of this highlights the advantage of natural, unprotected sex with an attractive and faithful partner whose sexual health is known, maybe using only a diaphragm or contraceptive sponge for contraception. But of course, in the case of most of us, if we had that, we wouldn't be paying for sex in the first place.
[QUOTE=Param Ahmad]I've never gotten anything using a female condom.[/QUOTE]
And after 4000+ clients, I've never caught anything using regular condoms.
[QUOTE]Well, I do, and I wish women wouldn't give me such a hard time about using them..[/QUOTE]
I'm definitely not trying to give you a hard time. Your commitment to protecting yourself and your partners is to be respected and commended. You have every right to make your own risk assessment and choose which method works best for YOU. I love that you said you've refused intercourse when a partner has refused to use your preferred protection - again, that's a decision that should be commended. When it comes to sex, you should ALWAYS feel safe and comfortable. (Of course, if the other party doesn't feel safe and comfortable with your chosen method, they also have the right to refuse).
[QUOTE=Param Ahmad]All of this highlights the advantage of natural, unprotected sex with an attractive and faithful partner whose sexual health is known, maybe using only a diaphragm or contraceptive sponge for contraception. But of course, in the case of most of us, if we had that, we wouldn't be paying for sex in the first place.[/QUOTE]
As the saying goes, “show me a supermodel and I’ll show you a guy who’s tired of fucking her”.
[url]http://www.lionsdenu.com/tiger-tiger-woods-yall/[/url]
"Variety is the spice of life".
[QUOTE=John Dough]As the saying goes, “show me a supermodel and I’ll show you a guy who’s tired of fucking her”.[/QUOTE]I saw a version of this on a biker's helmet sticker: "No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere, is tired of her shit."
[QUOTE]
"Variety is the spice of life".[/QUOTE]Actually, I recognized the truth of this in my essay, "Prostitutes are better because ...": "... an advantage of sex with prostitutes is variety, which is said to be the spice of life. In this case, the variety can do wonders for your sex drive. Being willing to have sexual experiences with prostitutes makes it easier to experience intimacy with a variety of women." [url]http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/paramahmad0/a_index.html[/url] What I said (below) about the safety, sensual advantage of unprotected sex with a steady, faithful partner whose sexual health is known, and I could have added the companionship and intimacy that are more likely to exist in such a relationship, is also true, however.
[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]And after 4000+ clients, I've never caught anything using regular condoms.[/QUOTE]4000+ clients? Yikes! I can't imagine. And I though [u]I'd[/u] had sex with a lot of women. You're making me feel conservative. Of course, I guess that's part of the job. You must be great looking to have had so many men want you. And never caught anything? Even if you play doctor with, or carefully examine, all your clients beforehand, considering asymptomatic transmission and direct contact with the base of men's penises as happens with regular condoms, that's an amazing statistic.
[QUOTE]I'm definitely not trying to give you a hard time. ... I love that you said you've refused intercourse when a partner has refused to use your preferred protection - again, that's a decision that should be commended. [/QUOTE]I didn't mean your comments are a hard time. I meant the women who've refused to let me use a female condom with the inner loop removed and worn as I would a regular condom, usually because they are not familiar with them or only trust condoms they've bought themselves.
[QUOTE=Param Ahmad]4000+ clients? ... You must be great looking to have had so many men want you.[/QUOTE]
It's only an estimate. I wasn't really counting :) And no, I'm not very good looking. I was just lucky enough to work in busy places and I got a lot of client recommendations, because I loved my job. There's also very few sex workers in my state, considering the size of the adult male population, so there's less competition.
[QUOTE]And never caught anything? Even if you play doctor with, or carefully examine, all your clients beforehand, considering asymptomatic transmission and direct contact with the base of men's penises as happens with regular condoms, that's an amazing statistic.[/QUOTE]
If you look up the sexual health statistics of Australian sex workers, you'll find my experience is not uncommon. Our sex industry enjoys lower rates of STIs than the general Australian population and HIV in our sex workers is almost non-existent. Visual inspections and universal condom use are obviously important factors, but other things like targeted education (by Govt funded sex worker organisations), decriminalised environments, industrial rights, control over choice of clients/sex practices, access to free and anonymous STI testing, cheap (or free) condoms, etc, also have a big impact.
[QUOTE]...the women who've refused to let me use a female condom ...[those who] only trust condoms they've bought themselves.[/QUOTE]
If you came to me with a condom, female or regular, I would be one of those women. I refuse to use any condom provided by my client/partner. Not only do I have concerns about how it was stored (condoms carted around in wallets or car gloveboxes are dangerous!), but there are also some real PIGS out there who intentionally sabotage condoms so they will break during sex. If you look around this Forum for 'tricks' to get bareback services, particularly in the Thailand thread, you'll see what I mean. I know it must be frustrating to be refused but, like you, we're only trying to minimise our own risk.
Hi All
As the devils advocate in this discussion, I just love the feeling of unprotected sex and will actively seek it here in Australia with WL's.
After maybe 3-400 instances of unprotected oral and maybe 20 of unprotected sex 6 medical check ups and blood tests including recent ones.
NO STI's or warts or crabs or anything.
This makes me suspect that these things can be very selective.
IE there are things you can do to mitigate the risk, Starting from the top in order of importance.
Maintain good health and an immune system- Eat well, plenty of fish & vegetables, don't smoke, drink to excess and keep that resistance to bacteria up.
Always make sure plenty of lube is applied and don't be a mile a minute pounder.
Get the 3 shots of gardasil if you can afford to punt you can afford to get the shots
Statistics favour men who are circumsised with many of the STD infection rates.
Of course I am terrified of catching an STI but the additive side of my personality that loves risk taking, also enjoys the feeling as described by Borat "Her vagine is like inside of wizards sleeve"
Nothing I have ever felt feels so good.
OS
Wow, thanks for that. I didnt even know what gardasil was. I will go to the doctor and get that taken care of.
[QUOTE=Offshore Swell]Hi All
As the devils advocate in this discussion, I just love the feeling of unprotected sex and will actively seek it here in Australia with WL's.
After maybe 3-400 instances of unprotected oral and maybe 20 of unprotected sex 6 medical check ups and blood tests including recent ones.
NO STI's or warts or crabs or anything.
This makes me suspect that these things can be very selective.
IE there are things you can do to mitigate the risk, Starting from the top in order of importance.
Maintain good health and an immune system- Eat well, plenty of fish & vegetables, don't smoke, drink to excess and keep that resistance to bacteria up.
Always make sure plenty of lube is applied and don't be a mile a minute pounder.
Get the 3 shots of gardasil if you can afford to punt you can afford to get the shots
Statistics favour men who are circumsised with many of the STD infection rates.
Of course I am terrified of catching an STI but the additive side of my personality that loves risk taking, also enjoys the feeling as described by Borat "Her vagine is like inside of wizards sleeve"
Nothing I have ever felt feels so good.
OS[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Jon32]Wow, thanks for that. I didnt even know what gardasil was. I will go to the doctor and get that taken care of.[/QUOTE]
You should know it costs about $360 to get the series of 3 shots needed for vaccination. Also, if you've already been exposed to any of the HPV variants targeted by the vaccine, its unlikely to be effective against that variant.
Read more about it here:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV_vaccine[/url]
I am STRONGLY in favor of this vaccine and would get it myself if I thought it would be effective. [I'm not talking about cost-effective... I'd gladly spend $360 or more if this would offer me some protection against HPV.] Unfortunately, in my case, my doctors have all basically said I shouldn't bother... maybe I'll ask them again.
If you have children (girls or boys, up to age 26, but preferably about age 10-12... before they've become sexually active) then go get them vaccinated. Its not only good for them, its good for everyone.