Rants, Stupid Shit and Coronavirus in Thailand

[QUOTE=Mdemde;2283297]

If anything, at that moment, I was not scared and I'm sure he sensed that I was not scared, he looked like a little wimp, he was about a foot shorter than me, skinny, and in his 30's (I'm in my early 60's and of slim / average build). He really did not look the part, waving his gun about, rather I think he felt like a big man because he had a gun. I said to him "are you going to use it, go on then" but he backed down, I had a gut feeling that he was more mouth than action, maybe the gun was not loaded, though of course I could have been wrong and he could have shot me.

I have lived in Thailand for many years and there are daily news reports of Thai men with guns losing their tempers and murdering friends and family members and neighbours, and it is never wise to cause a Thai man to lose face or lose their temper.[/QUOTE]I think your actions are basically justified although I can't say I would have done the same thing. Some French guy got shot by an off-duty policeman over some love triangle recently but I'm sure the guy pointing the gun at you didn't want to go to jail over a 1300 baht blow job so in that situation it's almost certainly a bluff. Good to hear that the police helped you out. I assume it was the regular police rather than the tourist police. I agree that you should press charges rather than let it drop.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2283548]-snip-

However, IMHO, in such places, if any sexual activity happens (which it clearly did) and you do ejaculate, you're not entitled to a refund if you're unhappy with exactly how it went. You can ask, of course, and they should oblige if they're customer-minded, but you're not really entitled to one.[/QUOTE]With all due respect, my opinion is it very much matters how and where one ejaculates when a BBBJ+CIM has been agreed to. I suppose an exception might be when a punter is so fast on the trigger that he ejaculates before the requested act even begins. Or if he is the one who changes direction of things and goes for FS or whatever.

But in the case of a BBBJ+CIM, if the girl agrees to provide a CIM finish for the money and she dodges or pulls away at crunch time as she did in this case, she did not provide what he paid for and I think he is very much entitled to a refund.

Normal restaurant analogies don't exactly work re certain sexual acts like a BBBJ+CIM. After all, when a tray of food is placed before us and it is clearly not what we ordered, that is the moment to point it out and get the order right. If we see that a Big Mac was placed on the tray instead of the Filet o' Fish we ordered but we gobble it down anyway, we are not entitled to a refund. We got food in our mouth and our belly. We ought to pay for it. It doesn't matter if it wasn't what we ordered once we have eaten it.

But that isn't how the moment of ejaculation works at the end of a blowjob. Once an orgasm is on its way, there is no stopping it to have a discussion with the lady about her getting the order wrong and please bring me a Filet o' Fish instead of a Big Mac, I'll wait.

So, with that huge difference in mind, here is a different kind of restaurant analogy re a BBBJ+CIM; If you were blind, ordered a Filet o' Fish, was assured by the server that the sandwich in that wrapper on your tray is indeed a Filet o' Fish and definitely not a Big Mac, but after taking a big bite of the thing and some of it going down your throat you realized you'd been lied to, then imo you definitely deserve a refund. Even though just like the example above you got food in your mouth and down your throat. The huge difference being you did not know until it was too late that you'd been lied to and did not get what you ordered.

And, no, I don't think that restaurant analogy works further with regard to simply getting your Filet o' Fish order right after you've taken a bite of a Big Mac. Most male humans will not have another orgasm the "right way" within minutes of having one the way he did not want it. It isn't the same as just taking one bite out of a sandwich and then trading it in for another one. Besides, in the case of that BJ Bar I seriously doubt anyone would have offered the customer another BJ to "have it your way" within minutes of getting it the wrong way.

[QUOTE=Mdemde;2283297]I went to 7-Heaven last night (BJ shop on a small soi just off Sukhumvit soi 33), it was my first visit. I had read about the place on the forums here, and the reviews I saw were positive. I chose a girl called 'Soda' from the photos on their iPad, was told strictly money up front so paid the THB 1.3 k fee (all subsequent prices are in THB) as shown on the menu for a BJ, and made a point of asking the cashier (in Thai) if the service was for CIM, and she confirmed that it was. I rarely pay up front for my mongering, you lose control over the situation.

There is a notice on the pay desk in 7-Heaven stating no refunds, but I thought at 1. 3 k I did not have much to lose. So Soda came out and escorted me upstairs into a spare room, she looked more or less as she did in the pic on the iPad, slim, fairly pretty, probably late twenties. I made a point of asking her, in Thai, if the service included CIM and she confirmed that it was..[/QUOTE]I feel your pain.

But just a warning to everyone out there, if I'm ever pointing a gun at someone and they make this comment to me, they are going to have their brains splattered all over the walls in about 0.5 seconds! "are you going to use it, go on then".

Its game over!

Were you drunk?

Why would you say that to somebody with a pistol in your face?

[QUOTE=Mdemde;2283297]About half way thru the BJ her attitude, which had been OK up till that point, changed, from the moment when I told her I wanted to change from lying down on the bed to sitting down at the edge of the bed and for her to get down on her knees.
She kept trying to put one hand on junior whilst she had it in her mouth, presumably to stop it going in all the way.[/QUOTE]Rereading your account which is refreshing for its honest portrayal of what happened I offer the following as a possible explanation of her behavior.

As you mention everything was going well until you changed position and moved her hands from holding your dick.

She may then for whatever reason have felt you wanted to face fuck her, something she hadn't signed up for.

She is in my opinion entitled to hold your dick while giving head and allowing you to come in her mouth. Changing position and taking her hands off "junior" could have alarmed her and made her apprehensive about what was going on.

Possible?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2283631]But in the case of a BBBJ+CIM, if the girl agrees to provide a CIM finish for the money and she dodges or pulls away at crunch time as she did in this case, she did not provide what he paid for and I think he is very much entitled to a refund.[/QUOTE]I guess we won't agree on this, but in a BBBJ+CIM deal, BBBJ is over 90% of the work. You're not entitled to a full refund if your restaurant meal (which you consumed in its entirety) was missing the truffle on top, no matter how much you wanted that truffle. Now, in a [I]very[/I] fancy posh restaurant where you pay over the odds to get the food as perfect as possible, they [I]might[/I] apologize profusely and comp your meal, but most hooker establishments are far from that category, especially one with a big sign saying "no refunds" (translation: we know we're crappy as other have complained before).

The broader point is that sex industry has very few service guarantees. Now, if a girl promises A+ or BBBJ and doesn't deliver at all, that's obvious grounds for raising a fuss, but if the dispute is about something like CIM or decent DFK that's more or less a side benefit, I think legitimately all we can do is give zero tip, chalk it up to experience, and move on. Trying to do otherwise means being one of those customers who cheats girls by fucking but not wanting to pay (on some pretext).

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2283702]I guess we won't agree on this, but in a BBBJ+CIM deal, BBBJ is over 90% of the work. You're not entitled to a full refund if your restaurant meal (which you consumed in its entirety) was missing the truffle on top, no matter how much you wanted that truffle.[/QUOTE]Ah, see I believe it is the way the act finishes that defines the act and not what occurred 90% of the time prior to the finish. An agreed upon BBBJ+CIM that finishes with the girl pulling her mouth away while she gives you a handjob to a finish is a handjob with some oral foreplay thrown in (which is a better finish than what Mdemde described. He had to take matters into his own hands; masturbation).

Do you suppose if a girl in a massage shop spent 90% of a session giving her customer a handjob and in that last 10% of the session mounted him (at his request) and he finished inside her pussy that she would only charge him 10% of the cost of FS and 90% of the cost of a handjob? Somehow I think that girl and anyone managing that shop would fully agree with me that the sex act is defined by how it finishes and not by what happened 90% of the time before the finish.

No, they would charge that customer 100% of the cost of FS. If the customer balks, some shops might even consider having a goon brandish a gun to make sure that full amount for FS got paid before the customer was allowed to leave.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2283465]If the original post does not belong in the "Stupid Shit in Thailand" thread I don't know what does.

Do you remember a few years back there was an incident that made all the BKK newpapers and internet. Apparently an expat got into a heated argument with a taxi driver half his size. The driver stopped his car, picked up a machete in the trunk, and hacked the expat to death. What a way to go! But not more stupid than arguing at gun point in a blow job bar with a Thai pimp over $20. Bravo![/QUOTE]Mdemde should be simply glad and thank his stars he has lived to tell us this tale. Insane. Stupid. Lapse of reasoning and judgment.

DO NOT TRY THIS ANYWHERE, EXPERIENCED OR OTHERWISE!

[QUOTE=Mdemde;2283297]............... Was it bravery on my part? Or stupidity? I have never had a gun pulled on me before, but I did not actually feel threatened....................[/QUOTE]Total stupidity. Bravery is Che Guevara engaging fully armed soldiers with a defective gun. Stupidity is willingness to die for spraying jizz on carpet rather than in mouth. You're lucky you are alive to tell the tale and not causing grief to family and friends who would have heard that you were shot in a blow job bar and that the only down side for you was having to clean soiled underwear.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2283729]Stupidity is willingness to die for spraying jizz on carpet rather than in mouth. You're lucky you are alive to tell the tale and not causing grief to family and friends who would have heard that you were shot in a blow job bar and that the only down side for you was having to clean soiled underwear.[/QUOTE]There's no way he would have been shot dead in the middle of the BJ bar in that part of Suk. This would bring too much bad publicity to these massage shops while the authorities are trying to clean the reputation of the Thai massage shops. The Thai guy that pulled a gun was probably very stupid.

But he knew he would have been in a very big trouble if he pulled the trigger, and would have put all the owners of massage places in a big trouble too. I'm glad that Mdemde stood his ground if he felt he had been scammed. When it comes to foreigners, some of these Thai people think they can easily get away with wathever they want. I 'm not saying the reason he got engaged in this affair was worth it, but it's good to always show them that we are not afraid also. Spudipidity was the reaction of the manager (that first agreed to the service that didn't arrive and then by calling that cowboy) and obviously the reaction of the Thai guy that thought that pulling a gun would solve a commercial affair. I understand that Mdemde has been living in Thailand long enough that he feels the need to not let any of these scammers take advantage of him. If you're reading these lines Mdemde, kuddos to you for standing your ground in front of these f*ckers. Now if I were you, I would not go again in that part of the city in a near future, and would even consider moving from Suk if you're staying there. You made them lose face, some policemen got involved too, who knows what could cross their mind if they see you again in a place that's not related to massage shops.

[QUOTE=Mdemde;2283297]Anyway, she got me to about 95%[/QUOTE]It is really funny that you mentioned that she got you about 95% and yet you are asking for 100% refund. This shows how unreasonable you are! The girl needs to be paid anyhow, asking 100% refund is like you are asking them to give you a entirely free session of BJ. How about the charges for rooms, A/C, cleaning utilities for your junior?

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2283530]Seems to me MD was being unreasonable in the room and I can imagine the girl being frightened of his behavior. Did he reserve a refund umm doubtful?

How he handled it back at reception is another question. Demanding a refund for a service paid for and you feel was not delivered is perfectly fair. What do you do if it is refused? Simply walk away post on ISG and chalk it up to experience. I don't think so.

As I said I feel he was out of order in the room but I applaud him standing up to intimidation. Meekly walking away because you are afraid of the consequences some say is smart, for me its cowardice.

He read the situation correctly and got half his money back.

Giving it to the police was a big mistake.[/QUOTE]It seems the girls are very frightened as Mdem mentioned that he did start shouting at the girl. No matter how, it is really unreasonable to ask for full refund for a service paid and done, even it is not delivered as expected, especially it is being stated in the counter "No Refund" and Mdem already accepted upfront. I can imagine that the girl at the counter looks terrified when Mdem is shouting and asking for full refund. What I usually do is that, instead of shouting loud to the girls (this will scare them bro), I would speak calmly and complain to the manager about my dissatisfaction about that particular girl. I am sure if the girl is that bad, many customers would have did the same complain and eventually the shop wouldn't want to keep her as staff!

[QUOTE=Mdemde;2283297]She kept trying to put one hand on junior whilst she had it in her mouth, presumably to stop it going in all the way, and I kept taking her hand away and putting her hands on my legs.[/QUOTE]While everything is from Mdem's point of view, there are times where I get to know from Thai night girls that there are customer who is very un-thoughtful, forcing them to deep throat or didn't bother to give them space for breathing. Could this be the reason why she is trying to put one hand to hold on junior while giving BJ? Though, I salute you for your bravery. Calling police was the right move. But asking for refund and paying the police was just stupid.

[QUOTE=Mdemde;2283297]Anyway, she got me to about 95%[/QUOTE]It is really funny that you mentioned that she got you about 95% and yet you are asking for 100% refund. This shows how unreasonable you are! The girl needs to be paid anyhow, asking 100% refund is like you are asking them to give you a entirely free session of BJ. How about the charges for rooms, aircond, cleaning utilities for your junior?

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2283530]Seems to me MD was being unreasonable in the room and I can imagine the girl being frightened of his behavior. Did he reserve a refund umm doubtful?

How he handled it back at reception is another question. Demanding a refund for a service paid for and you feel was not delivered is perfectly fair. What do you do if it is refused? Simply walk away post on ISG and chalk it up to experience. I don't think so.

As I said I feel he was out of order in the room but I applaud him standing up to intimidation. Meekly walking away because you are afraid of the consequences some say is smart, for me its cowardice.

He read the situation correctly and got half his money back.

Giving it to the police was a big mistake.[/QUOTE]It seems the girls are very frightened as Mdem mentioned that he did start shouting at the girl. No matter how, it is really unreasonable to ask for full refund for a service paid and done, even it is not delivered as expected, especially it is being stated in the counter "No Refund" and Mdem already accepted upfront. I can imagine that the girl at the counter looks terrified when Mdem is shouting and asking for full refund. What I usually do is that, instead of shouting loud to the girls (this will scare them bro), I would speak calmly and complain to the manager about my dissatisfaction about that particular girl. I am sure if the girl is that bad, many customers would have did the same complain and eventually the shop wouldn't want to keep her as staff!

[QUOTE=Mdemde;2283297]She kept trying to put one hand on junior whilst she had it in her mouth, presumably to stop it going in all the way, and I kept taking her hand away and putting her hands on my legs.[/QUOTE]While everything is from Mdem's point of view, there are times where I get to know from Thai night girls that there are customer who is very un-thoughtful, forcing them to deep throat or didn't bother to give them space for breathing. Could this be the reason why she is trying to put one hand to hold on junior while giving BJ? Though, I salute you for your bravery. Calling police was the right move. But asking for refund and paying the police was just stupid.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2283465]If the original post does not belong in the "Stupid Shit in Thailand" thread I don't know what does.

Do you remember a few years back there was an incident that made all the BKK newpapers and internet. Apparently an expat got into a heated argument with a taxi driver half his size. The driver stopped his car, picked up a machete in the trunk, and hacked the expat to death. What a way to go! But not more stupid than arguing at gun point in a blow job bar with a Thai pimp over $20. Bravo![/QUOTE]Call this. Natural selection.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2283729]Total stupidity. Bravery is Che Guevara engaging fully armed soldiers with a defective gun. Stupidity is willingness to die for spraying jizz on carpet rather than in mouth. You're lucky you are alive to tell the tale and not causing grief to family and friends who would have heard that you were shot in a blow job bar and that the only down side for you was having to clean soiled underwear.[/QUOTE]Mdemde may have felt brave, but the guy in the shop likely did not feel threatened by on old man in his 60's who loses his temper if he finishes on the floor.

[QUOTE=Paolo99;2283752] I'm glad that Mdemde stood his ground if he felt he had been scammed. [/QUOTE]Some folks here seem to have balls that are bigger than their brains. I hope they do not reproduce.

No personal offence.

[QUOTE=Blanquiceleste;2283946]Some folks here seem to have balls that are bigger than their brains. I hope they do not reproduce.

No personal offence.[/QUOTE]All talk and no real tough guy balls. Tough guys do not cry to the cops nor do they rat out the place. Whining because he didn't get to CIM. Tell it to your mother.