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[QUOTE=Brain666]I think I always understood the thing right.
No more or less.
And I believe that about 90 % of all mongers do nothing else then doing some kind of judgement how far to go with oral sex activities when deciding for P4P.
And the judgement was always for the decision of the level of oral sex and not for bareback sex as willingly falsely commented by some moralist ikons.
Its an illusion that the many mongers in LOS would bahave like the father of all safe sex, moral ikone The Traveler. In fact there is no time for 99,9999 % of all mongers to run each girl of our choice through a 15.000 baht 100% medical STD examination first. The reality is that except the few hand countable The Travelr's alike the rest of us will continue with their risk asessments to allow ourselves a more or less bit of oral pleasure.
As I don't need any instructions for that, I can live as well with and without Giotto's Risk asessment report. But I enjoyed reading it and secretly comparing it with my own brainwork I am going through when thinking on the level of oral activity I do with a girl.
regards
Brain666[/QUOTE]
Two things:
Firstly, I apologise for in advance. By ikon do you mean icon? I appreciate that English isn't your first language and nobody gets any stick for their English here, but I am just checking if that is what you meant. You see, clever bastards are coming up with words all the time that I have never heard of! I am just making sure that you meant icon as in an admired person who is held up as being the symbol of a particular practice. If that is what you meant, I don't think anyone here claimed to be an icon, they just claimed to have specialist knowledge or an informed point of view. As I said, it is no criticism, it's just that these replies can get pretty heated over minor misinterpretations of what is being said.
Secondly, most of this thread was not directed towards oral sex. I know in places it has been mentioned that certain areas only allow oral sex with a dental dam. That is because of legislation and OH+S, and governments always go overboard with policies and procedures and err on the side of caution.
Oral sex is a relatively low risk activity, apart from if she has open sores/blisters, then stay away! However anything is possible. generally, as long as you are not swallowing great amounts of love juice, your own natural flora will fuck-off most invaders. And, because of the mucus on the mucus membranes, a quick rinse with a good mouthwash like chlorhexidine will destroy any bacteria that may be trying to penetrate the mucus of the mucus membrane. I'm not telling you anything new but your mouth and throat are full of 'friendly' bacteria, or other commensal bacteria that can't do much until you are compromised in some other way with an illness.
I am Mr careful, and I could not begin to consider not going down on some sweet WG's pussy- as long as she wasn't bleeding, or smelly, or had sores.
However, and this is the point- IF every monger wore a condom, then, assuming the WG didn't fuck anyone else, oral would be a pleasure that could be partaken off freely and without worry.
In effect, we can fuck a girl who is infected with a condom and be safe, but licking one out who has a dose or two, or three can be a risk, but only a risk if someone has BBS them. That is why it is selfish, because barebackers may say that others will wear condoms, but nobody is going to use a dental dam on a foreign WG.
So mate, continue with the oral fun, and generally, with a woman, if she has an infection down there, you will be able to smell something wrong-if it is established.
Enjoy the posts and keep contributing. Our combined knowledge is what makes this forum work. Some information may be shit, but knowledge is power, and the more we know, the more we can decide what we want to accept/reject and/or follow.
Regards
Pete
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You should tell this to the indonesian forum Pete.
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[QUOTE=Petemcc]Two things:
Firstly, I apologise for in advance. By ikon do you mean icon? [/QUOTE]
Yes I meant Icon and I corrected it with some other type errors.
Regarding oral sex I just wanted to get some more real world practice in the discussion. Of course this is the safe sex thread and naturally the most safe would be to withstand from all p4p. But then we wouldn't have signed up for this board either.
My moral icon is mainly The Traveler, promoting the completely risk less way of doing. Of course he is right with that if absolutely risk less is what it should be. But again it isn't the case in 99,9999 % of the real P4P situations every day in LOS. So we will continue our brainwork before thinking on going for tongue play or going 'down under' how much we can justify.
regards
Brain666
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[QUOTE=Brain666]
...
It’s an illusion that the many mongers in LOS would behave like the father of all safe sex, moral icon The Traveler. In fact there is no time for 99,9999 % of all mongers to run each girl of our choice through a 15.000 baht 100% medical STD examination first. The reality is that except the few hand countable The Traveler’s alike the rest of us will continue with their risk assessments to allow ourselves a more or less bit of oral pleasure.
...
[/QUOTE]
Brain,
thank you for seeing me as an icon :)
Actually I was just expressing my point of view of the whole thing - and I am entitled to it as much as anybody else here (like you e.g.) - which simply was that there is no way to access the risks involved and that nobody should be less careless just because he believes to know anything about his P4P girl.
As Meaty already said, everybody has to use his common sense. No need for Giotto to delete his report. But I still think that he was sending out the wrong message by telling us that different "security levels" apply depending on a few attributes of the girls. I gave a very simple example how fast Giotto's risk assessment can fail.
Nevertheless, claiming that 99,9999% of the real P4P situations every day in LOS do differ from "safe sex" situations is quite ambitious. How do you know what other people do in their bedrooms ? I don't and can only refer to what many girls have told me, but I have talked to many over the time.
You would wonder how many guys only want a blowjob plus a bit intercourse - missionary, doggy and/or girl riding him - for about 15-20 mins before being satisfied. Not all want DATY, stick their fingers in and so on. Also not all girls do allow it, some may be worried about long fingernails etc.
Therefore giving out numbers like that is a huge exageration. We simply don't know.
And finally, too many guys are fixated on pussy and tits, but women do have many more erogenous zones which are safe to "play" with and will get the girl into the right mood.
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[QUOTE=Petemcc]
...
In effect, we can fuck a girl who is infected with a condom and be safe
...
[/QUOTE]
Pete,
even though we obviously share many points of view regarding safe sex I have to object.
Many people don't know that Chlamydia, Syhillis and Clap e.g. are smear infections. Due to this way of transmission, a condom doesn't offer 100% protection against those infections as they are often transferred during foreplay.
Giotto's "advice" to stick your bare fingers deep into a girl's pussy is the best way to contract any of these deseases. Not to speak of the already mentioned risk to get in contact with blood and the risk, mentioned by Giotto himself, to transfer nasty stuff when rubbing your eyes with the very same fingers. DATY of course poses an ever higher risk of contracting deseases.
So, condoms do not provide 100% security but it's the best thing we have so far and reduces the risk dramatically, therefore always wear one !
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Yep
A new friend sent this quote to me today:
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
[b]Bertrand Russell[/b]
Giotto
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[QUOTE=The Traveler]Pete,
even though we obviously share many points of view regarding safe sex I have to object.
Many people don't know that Chlamydia, Syhillis and Clap e.g. are smear infections. Due to this way of transmission, a condom doesn't offer 100% protection against those infections as they are often transferred during foreplay.
Giotto's "advice" to stick your bare fingers deep into a girl's pussy is the best way to contract any of these deseases. Not to speak of the already mentioned risk to get in contact with blood and the risk, mentioned by Giotto himself, to transfer nasty stuff when rubbing your eyes with the very same fingers. DATY of course poses an ever higher risk of contracting deseases.
So, condoms do not provide 100% security but it's the best thing we have so far and reduces the risk dramatically, therefore always wear one ![/QUOTE]
Point taken, but it offers 100% protection to your dick if your dick NEVER comes in contact with her juices, first hand, or second hand, so to speak! We have established that Chlamydia etc can infect other mucosa, and of course fingering a girl and rubbing her juices on an uncovered dick is a good way to get a dose of something nasty. Similarly DATY poses a risk, but with good oral hygeine (and not brushing your teeth for at least 4 hours before performing DATY) and care afterwards, the risk is minimised. Also a good saliva flow out of our mouths = less of a flow of her juices into our mouths.
I think that most people here realise, well, apart from the obvious few, that sex with someone you don't know, be that P4P or the girl next door, is risky. A condom is inpenetratable to all but sharp objects. Part of the testing phase is an attempt to pass an electric current through it, and if electrons can't get through, not much else should be able to squeeze through, at least of biological size.
FYI, I am currently researching the efficacy of mouthwashes like chlorhexidine ( which will destroy most bacteria, or at least reduce the count so much as they will have little chance of catching hold) in acting as a preventative measure post DATY, as opposed to letting the mormal mouth flora deal with it. Particularly, I am researching whether the repeated use of mouthwashes can significantly reduce the numbers of friendly mouth bacteria, so letting an opportunistic host from DATY get hold. I am leaning towards the use of such mouthwashes for 3 reasons:
1. People do get STI/STD of the mouth, so the commensal flora can't be that good.
2. They use the stuff in hospitals for patients.
3. Pathogen's will probably be relatively few and their numbers should be significantly reduced by the use of chlorhexidine post DATY.
An important point that I forgot to mention is the abuse of antibiotics. Some mongres may take unperscribed antibiotics thinking that they will stop them getting a dose. Apart from resistance issues, the problem is that most antibiotics do significantly reduce the population of the normal mouth flora, so letting potential pathogens ( from DATY etc) take hold. Interesting, prevention could cause infection!
Anyway mate, I'm not disagreeing with you, I am just saying that by exercising due dilligence, if possible, risks should be minimal.
I'll get back on the mouth research bit when it is done.
Pete
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[QUOTE=Petemcc]Similarly DATY poses a risk, but with good oral hygeine (and not brushing your teeth for at least 4 hours before performing DATY) and care afterwards, the risk is minimised. Also a good saliva flow out of our mouths = less of a flow of her juices into our mouths.[/QUOTE]
Pete, can I just add...
I know some people here aren't too concerned about the risk to the [i]sex worker[/i] during DATY, but for those who are, please be aware that although other STIs are certainly a risk, the greatest risk for the woman receiving DATY is herpes. From memory, one in every six people have HSV-1 (the coldsore virus). No longer separate infections, HSV-1 can cause HSV-2 (genital herpes) and vice versa, meaning that your coldsore could give a sex worker genital herpes. HSV is not only contagious during the outbreak, but for a period before and after - so you may be about to get a coldsore and not know it, unwittingly putting the girl at risk during DATY.
And don't forget, the same applies to a woman with HSV-1 giving a guy an uncovered blowjob.
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Thank you
[QUOTE=Giotto]I decided to erase the risk assessment report.
2 Reasons:
[b]1.) Possible Misunderstanding[/b]
When reading some responds to the report I realize that it can obviously be misunderstood as an advice, under which circumstances bareback intercourse could be acceptable. The Traveller has described this option correctly in a report below.
I first did not want to believe that, but obviously not many people have the time to read such a report slowly and in details – and then the whole message of the report get lost, worse – the message is reversed. And that is really the last thing I want to achieve with this report.
[b]2.) For What?[/b]
The report does not add any value to this forum. It is an intellectual orgasm for myself, and nothing more than that. I had fun to find out how my personal ways of thinking work, when I make a decision to go for oral sex with a P4P girl. But it is nothing more than that, only of value for myself.
----
I apologize to the forum for posting the risk assessment report.
[b]Please, Guys, use a condom, under all circumstances. No exceptions![/b]
Giotto[/QUOTE]
Giotto
If you really mean what you said here, I salute you as a big man, honestly, so if it is heart felt, thanks, well done-enough said.
Pete
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Agreed
[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]Pete, can I just add...
I know some people here aren't too concerned about the risk to the [i]sex worker[/i] during DATY, but for those who are, please be aware that although other STIs are certainly a risk, the greatest risk for the woman receiving DATY is herpes. From memory, one in every six people have HSV-1 (the coldsore virus). No longer separate infections, HSV-1 can cause HSV-2 (genital herpes) and vice versa, meaning that your coldsore could give a sex worker genital herpes. HSV is not only contagious during the outbreak, but for a period before and after - so you may be about to get a coldsore and not know it, unwittingly putting the girl at risk during DATY.
And don't forget, the same applies to a woman with HSV-1 giving a guy an uncovered blowjob.[/QUOTE]
Of course Rubber, you are 100% correct. One only has to watch the ad campaigns on national television in Australia to realise how common herpes is- the figures you have quoted.
You are also correct. Often ( but not always as you will notice) the focus has been on the man. I think in this thread somewhere I stated that we have the responsibility/ duty of care to the WGs, especially those who may not fully understand the consequences. I get the occasional cold sore, and during that time I don't kiss my wife anywhere near any mucosa. I would hope that other mongers take the same care with their significant others, and it follows on, unless you are a complete prick, that you should do the same with a WG.
Thanks for reminding us of that Rubber.
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[QUOTE=La Chef]You should tell this to the indonesian forum Pete.[/QUOTE]
I never visit that forum, and have never been there. What do you suggest I look at and tell them?
I gather that most WGs there don't want condoms because they feel it degrades them, or something, so please enlighten me and I'll check the threads out and add my 5 cents (Australian)
Thanks
Pete
Sorry, couldn't PM you!
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[QUOTE=Petemcc]I never visit that forum, and have never been there. What do you suggest I look at and tell them?
I gather that most WGs there don't want condoms because they feel it degrades them, or something, so please enlighten me and I'll check the threads out and add my 5 cents (Australian)
Thanks
Pete
Sorry, couldn't PM you![/QUOTE]I was just speaking with sarcasm. I didn't want you to literaly telling them. Many people already tried without any success.
Anyway, take care maty.
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[QUOTE=Petemcc]
Anyway mate, I'm not disagreeing with you, I am just saying that by exercising due dilligence, if possible, risks should be minimal.
[/QUOTE]
Pete,
I didn't disagree with you either, just wanted to point out that people should know about the way of transmission of certain deseases for maximum protection.
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[QUOTE=The Traveler]And finally, too many guys are fixated on pussy and tits, but women do have many more erogenous zones which are safe to "play" with and will get the girl into the right mood.[/QUOTE]
This is very true, often i will take out my wallet and fiddle with the 1,000 Baht notes, for some there is only a small effect, but i have seen others go wild :D
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Ha ha Absolutely fantastic!! I have noticed that on many an occasion!
