Printable View
I was there this Tuesday. And had a FS session with #18.
Braquo.
My spies were correct. Now 851 Shaanxi is closed for one week by LE. One day after your most detailed report. 18 wiil not respond to text messages and the place has locked the girls inside. Some coincidence？Except for the mornings 18 had a two hour waiting list before your report. Now she is stiting on a block of ice making no money.
[QUOTE=Braquo;1647130]Returned today.
I tipped her at the beginning of the session.
But still no progress. [/QUOTE]Since when are we starting to tip in a sauna? Even before any service received? This is a reason Sacrosa is very strict on bringing in your wallet (must stay in the locker room).
[QUOTE=ThomasJefferson;1647213]Never pay these girls in advance, if they don't want, kick them out.
I was in Shanghai last week too, met a nice Viet girl in Mannhattens and agree 1000 for LT, she was a real cutie, wanted the money first, but I refused, she accepted and we spend a fabulous night.
She is now back to Vietnam but still text me every day by wechat.
Not sure she will be back to Shanghai soon.[/QUOTE]Yup, never pay up front, especially on LT. You will be lucky to get one good pop. Interesting, I had a cute viet last time from judy's for 1000 LT. After a couple pops, I put the money on the nightstand. She said what's wrong? You say you pay me in morning? She did not want to leave and the chemistry was good. I kept her for a 3rd pop and told her to leave. I just can't sleep with someone I don't know next to me.
I have paid half up front once but never in full. Next time tell them before you leave the hotel.
[QUOTE=Changlelu;1647289]Since when are we starting to tip in a sauna? Even before any service received? This is a reason Sacrosa is very strict on bringing in your wallet (must stay in the locker room).[/QUOTE]In fact I met her 2 days before. And this time she managed to come earlier just for me. So following Mikko's advice and because I wanted to thank her for coming almost one hour in advance for me, I tipped her. She was very surprised anyway!
But, I'm not sure it will lead to any additional service! I will probably see her two more times. If not progress, I will stop seeing her. As for the tip, this was a first time for me in a sauna. I don't know if I'll repeat it!
So far this is the second sauna place where I think it is possible since you change in the room with the girl. The other being Tang Dynasty (BTW, this one is great but really too far away).
Hi,
I just wanted to make a comment regarding Shanghai Nightlife Guide website.
First, let me say that this website is great and really useful. Thank you for the work done!
However, I have one comment regarding the 'Escort' section. I noticed that the new girls posting their info there are now asking more and more money. Prices are now higher than what you have to pay in Europe!
I understand the girls are free to set whatever price they want but the webmaster should not allow this price increase. I discussed with lots of girls via wechat and some are really crazy about their asking price.
For that reason I would recommend not to accept anymore those high prices. One hour session shall not be higher than a sauna session when you get the room and the food. And I don't even talk a out 2 hours session prices!
On my side, I never give more than 1500 rmb (all included, which I think is really high already) for a 2 hours session and often pay 1000 rmb only.
Your comments from all of you are most welcomed.
[QUOTE=SamCan;1646988]Thanks, not looking for an expensive one, more the less expensive one! In Jing ann 268+ 200 got you a decent massage, he and roaming. 700 for an he?
Man maybe I 'll be doing it myself! LOL.[/QUOTE]If it's reached that stage, it might be time to have a look across the other side of Yang Gao road. Left out of your hotel, right at the crossroad and go north on Hongfeng Lu. Cross the highway (Yang Gao), the first turn on your left will be Yinshan Lu. Close to the corner are a few massage shops. Choose one with a girl in short black dress in the doorway, you should find what you seek. If you continue along Yinshan you should find some BBS just after the junction with Jinkou Lu.
Alternatively, continue along Hongfeng Lu to Jintai Lu, turning right. There are some BBS on the left side about 100 m from the junction but their opening hours seem pretty irregular. There are some massage places on the opposite side which look promising but I've no personal experience there.
[QUOTE=Braquo;1647418]Hi,
I just wanted to make a comment regarding Shanghai Nightlife Guide website.
First, let me say that this website is great and really useful. Thank you for the work done!
However, I have one comment regarding the 'Escort' section. I noticed that the new girls posting their info there are now asking more and more money. Prices are now higher than what you have to pay in Europe!
I understand the girls are free to set whatever price they want but the webmaster should not allow this price increase. I discussed with lots of girls via wechat and some are really crazy about their asking price.
For that reason I would recommend not to accept anymore those high prices. One hour session shall not be higher than a sauna session when you get the room and the food. And I don't even talk a out 2 hours session prices!
On my side, I never give more than 1500 rmb (all included, which I think is really high already) for a 2 hours session and often pay 1000 rmb only.
Your comments from all of you are most welcomed.[/QUOTE]It seems this industry, more than any is subject to the lawi of supply and demand.
There seems to be ample supply. No need to go with providers that quote such high prices.
I guess nobody is forced to pay, but that is a free market.
There is only a question of competition and there is ample around.
It's quite easy: keep LB under control and just say NO and send them home or tell right that's it or leave it.
All the best and have a beer or two instead.
Gregory.
[QUOTE=Explorer88;1647465]It seems this industry, more than any is subject to the lawi of supply and demand.
There seems to be ample supply. No need to go with providers that quote such high prices.[/QUOTE]
You can't be serious. It is not up to webmaster to set market prices but you (us) as consumer. We get it when trying to hire legitimate staff, they expect ridiculous salaries now in China. Same is happening across the market that this forum deals with. One sets a budget and either declines or digs into contingency. But the information must flow.
[QUOTE=Braquo;1647418]Hi,
I just wanted to make a comment regarding Shanghai Nightlife Guide website.
First, let me say that this website is great and really useful. Thank you for the work done!
However, I have one comment regarding the 'Escort' section. I noticed that the new girls posting their info there are now asking more and more money. Prices are now higher than what you have to pay in Europe!
I understand the girls are free to set whatever price they want but the webmaster should not allow this price increase. I discussed with lots of girls via wechat and some are really crazy about their asking price.
For that reason I would recommend not to accept anymore those high prices. One hour session shall not be higher than a sauna session when you get the room and the food. And I don't even talk a out 2 hours session prices!
On my side, I never give more than 1500 rmb (all included, which I think is really high already) for a 2 hours session and often pay 1000 rmb only.
Your comments from all of you are most welcomed.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Braquo;1647418]Hi,
I would recommend not to accept anymore those high prices. One hour session shall not be higher than a sauna session when you get the room and the food.
Your comments from all of you are most welcomed.[/QUOTE]I am totally with you! But I think the market should regulate it. From our view it should be on the customers not to accept anymore those high prices! But we also get tired by the actual situation. The rates going up and up and than the girls even complain, that our page don't bring enough business to them. We try to explain to every girl, that as higher they charge, as less customers they will have, and if they would reach the level of the sauna or Manhattan club girls, they would be able to get more customers than they could handle, but nearly no girl seems to understand that. From my view it's even a culture difference! Nearly every foreigner is very clear about a direct relation between price and number of sales. In China the price often just related to your hand at bargaining, so my feeling is, for a lot of Chinese people a lower price doesn't mean you will get more business, it just mean your bargaining skills are lousy, so that finally you will earn less!
And for me, is totally not to be understood that the girls never compare their effort and reveniew in a reasonable way. I had a discussion like that with a sauna girl some weeks ago, when she decided to go back to her sauna work, because she made too less money on our page. In her sauna she has to be on location 12 to 14 hours a day, 25 days a month and each time she has a customer, she will get 400 RMB for 80 minutes. So in a month she would get around 30 000 RMB, but for that she also has to serve every working day 3 customers and each time 80 minutes hard work! On our page she asked for 1400 for one hour and made less than 30 000 a month! I told her, if she would ask for 800 for a one hour session, she also could get much more customers a day and than she could earn even much more than in the sauna! But at the same time she is more free to go out, stay at home and so on. She really did not believe me and she was sure, that if she would ask less, than she would also earn less. In her stubborn brain the number of customers seems to be "fixed", so that lower her rate will follow up to less money. The only idea I have to explain this "blocked perspective" is, that first normally this girls didn't just finish their MBA before they started with their sauna work, so a good business sense is not something you can expect, and second, from their working experience, if you work in a sauna with higher price, you will just earn more, because you will not have less customers than in a cheap sauna.
They definitely often don't understand anything about how the market will go! Most girls just check other girls profiles and than ask for the rate the most expensive girl on the page will ask for, because than she think she will earn the maximum, but she will not consider, that the other girl for example is much more pretty, younger or can speak good English, has a much better service or what ever! Or even simply the other girl has very less business! You can see that clearly on our Beijing page. We started with some "high class" models there with perfect English skills, pretty and young, but very expensive. The result now is, that every old ugly part time girl there think 2000 per hour is an adequate rate!
Another reason why the girls on our page ask a higher price is the strict rule, that they are not allowed to try any upselling. All the rates you pay outside in clubs or on other webpages are based on a "mixed calculations". If you are the lucky guy who take home the girl from Manhattan for 600 or 800 RMB, there will be a greenhorn somewhere who pay 3000 RMB for the same from time to time, so overall she will reach her target, even this target is higher than the 800 RMB. In typical classifieds here in Shanghai the girls ask for 300 to 600 RMB for a "massage", but sometimes the girls will even go out of the room with RMB 5000 for a short time session, just because the customer could not withstand her permanent price negotiations! On our page we kick all girls out who try any kind of upselling, so a "mixed calculation" don't work on our page. The result is, the basic price she will agree to write in her profile will be the final price and is therefore naturally higher than the lowest price you could negotiate in a mixed calculation.
Also irritating for me is, that Chinese guys are weird enough to pay totally overpriced rates too! There is a very cheap market for Chinese guys, like for example the typical barbershop or QQ girls, where Chinese pay 150 to 500 RMB, but on the other side there are so many Chinese guys who don't care to pay 3000 or even 5000 RMB for a lousy "one shoot session", just because they can afford it! I guess it's a kind of "showing off" that they have the money for that, but that's just my personal point of view. So girls who also provide escort for Chinese customers often don't understand, why they should charge less from foreigners, who should not be more poor from their point of view. For example Mystique has no problem to find Chinese customers for her "overpriced" rate, so she totally did not get the point, why she should to lower her rate for foreigners. This could be the second culture difference in this business! Chinese guys like to spend a lot of money on girls, just to show that they have the financial background for that! Most foreigners expect to get more, if they spend more, even they are rich and don't need to care about this small expenses. But in western culture every price should be related to what you get for, otherwise it's a cheating deal! Just an easy example: most foreign guys will be "shy" and think they have fallen for a scam, if they payed 10 000 RMB for a average short girls session. And most foreigners will keep it as a secret, because they are scared the people around would consider they are totally stupid! Most Chinese guys would tell it to everyone, and they would be very sure all around will respect them for that, because they could afford a session like that, so that means they are rich and successful! Or about the KTV parties: I think most western guys will totally find no sense in going to a high class KTV, spend 10 000 to 20 000 RMB each for just singing and drinking with some very pretty girls, but with definitely not any "special" service! But thousands of Japanese and Chinese guys doing that every day here in Shanghai! Why? I think just to show others they can do it!
But back to the suggestion, just not to accept requested rates like that.
We spend a lot of effort for consulting the girls and we will give them a lot of support and help to be successful on our page, but the final decision what they will offer and how much they want to charge for is up to the girls! For us that's an important point for the girls of being independent! From our view, we can set up rules to avoid cheating, but how they do their business is up to the girls, as long as they are honest and tell it clearly before they meet a customer! And the price is obviously for everyone, so if they charge to high, it's their decision and their problem, not our problem, and also not the customers problem. If he accept the price, it's a deal between two people who are both free in their decision. And frankly on our page there are plenty other ways to find cheap girls described detailed and with rates, so if someone want to find a cheap deal, he can find several saunas and pickup clubs just by some clicks. So finally we think it should not be our mission to interfere free deals on the market. We established basic rules to ensure that everything will be fair, all others should be controlled by the market!
And honestly, it is damned hard to find girls who agree with our rules, especially the real pictures, because they think on all other pages it works without that, so why not on our page? Many girls because of that already just put their profile somewhere else, so we are very happy for everyone who agree to put a real picture on our webpage and for every girl who is willing to spend at least an reasonable service to avoid bad comments, so we don't want to risk "loosing" any girl by force them charging less.
But we really hope we can get their price down step by step, because than the girls will get more customers and will complain less and our page will get more attractive for our visitors. We work hard to find ways how to to it and we will work on it continuously. For example we just now try to set up a "deal of the day" and our Chinese manager is on the way to convince the girls to agree to lower their price radically for one day from time to time, and we really hope that we can reach a rethink, when the girls will see, that on this "special offer day" they have really more customers! They will certainly have to work more, but for most Chinese girls this will not be a problem, if they also will finally have more money in their pocket! If they will realize it, we hope there will be a chance that some want to try it later on a daily base.
[QUOTE=BeijingCbc;1646935]Maybe someone can help me out here. Been a while since I visited Manhattans but went tonight it was totally packed. Ended up taking back a cute Viet back to my hotel but the second we got into the room, she asked for money upfront? From what I remember, you should never do that, so I made my point that its not my first time and I always paid in the morning (we agreed to 1.5 k rmb for the night for those interested) but she wouldn't budge. Ended up just kicking her out. Question. Is that the norm now? Pay upfront? [/QUOTE]I know my post here will be opposite to the common sense in this forum and I don't want to offend anyone, but just let me "play the devil's advocate" for some time, OK?
So many guys here are "proud" not to be a greenhorn and never ever paid in advance.
But from my view, every business is a deal between two partners, and if they don't know each other, it's logical that everybody distrusts the other side! And this is the point! The girl also don't know you, how can she trust you? I think just decide never pay in front shows that you don't respect your "business partner"! Would you ever agree a similar deal like that! Imagine your customer forced you to deliver your service or product, but tell you very clear, that he will pay for it later, no deposit, no down payment, no payment guarantee. And you know very clear, if he just don't want to pay, there is no way for you to get your money. Would you or your company ever agree to a deal like that? But that's exactly what you expect the girls to do!
Could be you never think about guys who will also cheat these girls? I am in touch with some escort girls, and especially the sauna girls are not used to ask for money upfront (because in a sauna the guys just pay at the counter when they leave), so they often not ask for money. And outside in this city they are enough guys who think, why should they pay after they got already what they wanted. And the girls have no pimp or anyone who can make sure they will get their money. They have no chance to call the police or give any other trouble to the customer and if they will fight, the police definitely will give trouble to the girl, never to the guest. Believe it or not, there are enough guys, even customers in expensive 5 star hotels who play games like that! Especially foreigners, because they know they will be gone soon, so they don't need to think about any upcoming problems!
So I really can understand all the girls who don't accept to get the money afterwards, on the other side I know there are also too many girls in this business, and even getting more and more the last years in Manhattan club, who will never keep their "service promise" after getting paid.
But anyone who is in business should know, that in a situation like that just insist to be the reliable one without any proof and same time insist the other one is not even a little bit trustful is not really a polite strategy. From my point of view it's just the use of a "supposed" power of the guy who think the girl need a customer so much, that she will agree to a deal, where she cover 100% of the risk and he has no risk.
I am very sorry for your bad experience with the girl who left you back in frustration, but if you all here would "take over the girls hat" for a moment and think from the girls position in that deal, how many of you would have stayed and accept to do a deal with someone, who show you clearly, that he don't trust you even a little bit, but same time expect you to accept, that he expect all service upfront without any proof that he will pay?
And if the girl "go out of the deal" at this point of business negotiation sometimes is not the often rumored "proof", that she would have cheated you anyway, it can also be the proof, that this girl has enough self confidence to know, she can find a more considerate business partner who also respect her situation. Or she just has been able to keep her pride, even she work in that business!
And I doubt a little bit, that the "never money upfront" strategy really works so well like we can read it here so often. Just from logical and psychology view, I am pretty sure, that a fight of power with a clear winner and a clear looser will not so often follow up in a great sex session with great girlfriend experience, perhaps except the couples who are in the SM game and playing with "power" already! There will be guys who don't care if the girl is happy or pissed off, as long as she work hard to make sure she get her money, and there will also be girls who can "switch off" their frustration, but over all, I would guess there are more good sessions destroyed by that rule than we all think. Most likely the guys who had a bad night never will know, if it would be much better with another start and even they guess the reason, they will have less motivation to share their experience than the guys who got a great girlfriend night even after insist to pay afterwards.
I really would like to appeal to all guys here for a fair treatment of the girls! There should be a way for a compromise. What about for example split the risk by pay half upfront, half afterwards? Or sometimes it is even already enough to deposit the cash on a place where she know she could definitely get it later. It will show at least, that you prepared the cash and also implies that you are willing to pay. You definitely should make clear, that you provided the cash for her already, because the guys going to cheat a girl, often don't even have the money in the room. For a overnight agreement it could be a way to pay the short time rate first, because here the most common scam is just to take the overnight money and find a excuse to leave after the first shot, but it's uncommon that the girl will took the money and leave without any service, so this is not very risky. And than next morning you just pay the extra overnight charge.
I think every step in the girls direction which will show that you respect her and showing understanding also for her concerns will totally change the atmosphere and should be a much better start in a girlfriend session than treat her without any respect first and than some minutes later expect her to spend a lot of effort to give you a great time.
Just my private point of view.
I can't really say it's a report, but I stand by this story being 90-91% accurate and truthful.
So again I found myself at Nanjing East Road, just left a dinner and wanted to cool off a bit. Lot's of smog but nothing I could really do about it.
As per my previous walks along this road full of neon and blind trolley drivers, the touts were out doing their thing. After about 5 or 6 times of ignoring and saying no, I ended up with this pudgy dude with bad teeth. Now I know following a tout is not recommended by the denizens of this forum, in fact I don't ever recommend it myself but I did it anyway.
Ended up in a taxi to the Sichuan North Road area, a bit of a ways from Nanjing Lu, and again, this isn't recommended. Through the hole journey my mind was going, 'What am I doing? Just get out of the bloody taxi now. Really. Go home. ' Of course I never listen to myself. Entered a door with this yellow and floral tint, I don't remember the exact address but I'd recognise it if I saw it again. From then was then hurried into a room, and given a lineup, then chose one. Now before the whole deal went down, I told the tout I only had 100 Y, and he was like 'no problem, that's fine. ' Of course I knew it wasn't but I went along with it. I did have my visa cards with me, but they're both empty, because living a student life sucks up finances.
Before we start the mamasan I assume, gives me like an interrogation, made no difference to me. Paid the 100 to her and she left looking a bit upset.
Back of the KTV room and the girl; she was fairly good looking, tall, nice rack. For 100 all I would assume I'd get was a handjob so, we started and sure enough it was terrible. About 15 minutes of her violently tugging and smashing on my balls. Then she gets the idea, 'wait, lotion. That's should work' Really? I wish you would have thought of that earlier. But still nothing was going to happen and I certainly wasn't going to finish with my dick feeling like it was being pulled off and my man sausages smashed into a pulp. So we agreed to leave it at that. Figured well I'd leave now, needed to get home anyway.
Oh wait, no. Things are never that easy.
This dude walks in, black shirt, slim, good looking fairly good english. 'Oh wait. Let's have a chat. '.
Oh boy.
So, the 100 Y was just the tip. Nevermind the fact that this was never mentioned beforehand at all, but of course they knew this. I go, 'I have no more money. ' Now that wasn't going to go well with them. He leaves and three other dudes walk in, all black shirts and gold chains. 'Great the muscle is here. ' Now despite my. Appearance I'm not very strong, but I'm more than ready to fight dirty. I'll bite off man bits if I have to.
Now one of the new guys is all big and tough, acting macho. He wants 10,000 Y, but since I'm a student; he'll give me a discount. Of course unless I want my school and the police to know. 'Really? You're telling me this is all illegal. Worse that happens to me is I spend 6 months in jail as you said, or I get deported. I'm not the one running the place so who gets into the most trouble here? There are cameras in the room? Really? Great. Do it. I'll take my punishment. ' he doesn't say anything to that. I empty my pockets, nothing. We go upstairs to where his boss is, there's a machine to check the cards. Voila, all empty.
No now, Mr. Tough is all quiet, he scuffles off in the corner and tell me to just go. I'm about to leave, and his boss speaks up. 'Young man, blah blah. I hope you understand that we can't refund you but I'm sorry if my employee cause you any trouble, but you really shouldn't be here. You should be focusing on your studies etc. I'll give you a ride back to the station, and I'll take with my employee. '.
That was it. Get a ride back to the metro station and went home. Though I really wished that tout was around so I could kick him in the fucking teeth. And I really learned my lesson this time, I'm never following a tout again. Well. We'll see.
Has anyone ever had a good experience with a tout?
[QUOTE=Ringer5;1647460]If it's reached that stage, it might be time to have a look across the other side of Yang Gao road. Left out of your hotel, right at the crossroad and go north on Hongfeng Lu. Cross the highway (Yang Gao), the first turn on your left will be Yinshan Lu. Close to the corner are a few massage shops. Choose one with a girl in short black dress in the doorway, you should find what you seek. If you continue along Yinshan you should find some BBS just after the junction with Jinkou Lu.
Alternatively, continue along Hongfeng Lu to Jintai Lu, turning right. There are some BBS on the left side about 100 m from the junction but their opening hours seem pretty irregular. There are some massage places on the opposite side which look promising but I've no personal experience there.[/QUOTE]Thanks Ringer, just joking, but with manhattan's and Judy's offering full FS take home for 1000, seven hundred for a one shot he starts to sound pretty high.
I appreciate the advice. I am glad there is something there to occupy my time after work.
Sam.
[QUOTE=ShanghaiGuide;1647626]I know my post here will be opposite to the common sense in this forum and I don't want to offend anyone, but just let me "play the devil's advocate" for some time, OK?
So many guys here are "proud" not to be a greenhorn and never ever paid in advance.
I think every step in the girls direction which will show that you respect her and showing understanding also for her concerns will totally change the atmosphere and should be a much better start in a girlfriend session than treat her without any respect first and than some minutes later expect her to spend a lot of effort to give you a great time.
Just my private point of view.[/QUOTE]Good point of view Steven. I know with my favorite viet RAY (see my post). I did show her up front I had the money. I wanted her to know I was giving her some USA 100 bills. I was just being honest and up front. She asked if I had no Chinese money. I said not enough (which was true). She was good with that. I put It in the safe with my passport, wallet and laptop.
We then had a great session. As I said, when I took it out early she was upset thinking I was throwing her out. Yes I really miss her now!
I agree. I've solved the "pay up front" issue by pulling out the money, show the girl I have it, and then put it on the dresser held down by a lamp or something. She could run to grab it but I'd beat her to the door and she would not be leaving with it. I think it comes down to your attitude and a little repore. Put her at ease and let her know you are easily able to pay this amount. I've never had an argument or issue after that.
And in case it needs to be posted yet again.
NEVER NEVER EVER FOLLOW A TOUT.