General Info

I can really only talk about World and Oase. I know for certain that the World staff will make a customer pay what he is supposed to - a month ago a customer was marched to his car to get money after he refused to pay for "extras" he had had. This is welcome - as Peter said it is part of enforcing standards.

In contrast when I complained at Oase (the only time I have ever complained at an FKK) I was met with total indifference and they implied I didn't know what I was doing - this can only encourage the girl concerned to continue to rip-off clients

Novize asks how we can stop any downward trend. The problems are perhaps due to oversupply and therefore more competition for money (meaning as Peter says that the girls need to have a harder edge to cut it) etc. The resulting high turnover of girls can lead to something of red light area attitude in soem girls. We can't do anything about that, apart from treat them like people and make sure we don't go with ones who only give 10 minutes sessions. The key to helping continue a proper FKK ethos is to make return trips to a club so the girls recognise you as a valued customer

Novize says "It´s not the tourists' responsibility, it´s the behaviour of a growing number of clients who live in Germany and feel superior to the women" - from Cordelia's experience this seems to be accurate - I was trying to say that as tourists we can do our bit. The girls quickly get to know any horrible customers and tend to avoid them - and of course if the horrible customers are frogmarched out as happens at World occasionally, they will not come back

I'm not pessimistic about the future - I remember being given poor service at Atlantis much more often than has happened on visits in the last six months to World, Oase and Palace.

Hi Shiatsu,

"I know for certain that the World staff will make a customer pay what he is supposed to"

Your are absolutely right about that, but that's about it in terms of protection. A guy can pretty must molest the girl in the room and get away with it. "What happens in the room happens in the room" as one girl put it. I am quite surprised how casually some girls can describe what I would think as horrifying experiences, they develop their internal protective mechanisms pretty fast I guess.

I am concerned about this for pretty selfish reasons because I hate going to a room with a girl and feeling her stress level as she has no idea how she will be treated, and the service level is according to that.

I don't want pimps for protection within the clubs, but I think management could be a little more concerned about the behaviour of some guests.

Chivaz

Here is what the management at World should do:

1. Install CCTV in all rooms.

2. Upon entry to the club, issue all guys with a utility belt, thats contains a battery pack, and also two wired remote controlled adhesive electrodes.

3. After putting clothes in lockers, guys will attach the electrodes to the testiciles.

4.If a client becomes abusive in the room, a 10 second electric shock will be administered by the person viewing the monitors.

No more problems

Isn't the club run by the Hell's Angels? I'm sure they know how to handle rough clientele. I wouldn't mind hiring them to deal with the concierge at the Steigenberger hotel, I stayed there last November, paid nearly 400 dollars for a room that was freezing cold. I should have known better to stay at the Intercity for a quarter of that, and could have spent the remaining 300 at a good club.

Hi Fred,

Your solution will only handle the nice ones that are not problem. The electric shock will only arouse the kinky ones :-)

One would still think that a club run by Hells angels or whatever would have some basic means of protecting the girls.

Chivaz

CBGB,

Do you delete all your posts?

The rest:

It is the job of club management to provide a good atmosphere for prostituion. Both from the perspective of the customer as well as the provider.

In order to ensure this they have to make sure that the price structure is clear and adhered to. That means stopping girls from overcharging or making up prices, or refusing service for the agreed upon house prices. It also means ensuring that all customers pay the full bill for their services. This should not be done with a detailed list and bill for each customer, but in case of arguments or misunderstandings they should step in and maintain order.

Should a customer continually try to cheat girls on their bill, he should be asked to permanently leave the club. The shame should apply for a girl who tries to cheat customers. Schieferhof has the "two complaint" rule. Two customer complaints within a reasonable time frame (about 3 months) and you are asked to leave the club. Some girls are dropped within a week, and others have been there for more than ten years. The earning potential and atmosphere in that club keeps the line long of girls wanting to work there.

Regarding the attitude of the guests and the girls outside and inside the room. The club should make sure that there are house rules that the girls follow which should seek to lessen the building of chat groups, where 5 girls sit in a corner talking to themselves and scaring the customers off. The girls should foster the atmosphere of interest and availability. If there are certain girls that continually disrupt this (everyone has a bad day) they should be removed. The same is for guests. If there are guests who get loud and beligerent, or in any other way make the place not comfortable for others, they should be asked to leave, perhaps even getting their entrance fee back to avoid unnecessary discussions. It used to be that many clubs weren't letting in groups of more than 4 men, and often groups of certain ethnic groups (also multiple people together) as they had a certifiable history of letting the group dynamic become unruly. One of these groups is white american soldiers, so it is not completely racial.

Then if it comes to "in room" stuff. The same needs to apply. If a customer complains about the girls service level, the girl should be called to give her side of the story (in private after the guest has left). If these reports become frequent, or if they are believeable, the club owner should investigate. Perhaps talking a regular guest to give the girl a try (maybe offer a money back guarantee) and see whether the service level is really below normal. I remember at Samya once I complained about a girl who would not kiss (I have pretty much perfect teeth and don't smoke, she just claimed that she never kisses). They said it was club standard, in the meantime they write it explicitly on the profile of each girl on the homepage. It is understood by all girls, if they don't accept it work someplace else.

If a girl comes into the office and complains about the treatment by a male customer (really rough or disrespectful), then the club should keep an eye on this customer with the CCTV in the public rooms (never CCTV in rooms, would not fly) and see who this guy goes to the room with for the next session. Immediately after the session take that girl into the office (say she has a phone call or something) and find out what the session was like. If the guy is definitely a rough guest, have the management of the club have a brief and polite (not threatening) word with him about what sort of respect the women deserve. Perhaps keep him under general observation, on this and future visits. If he does not change his way, throw him out of the club forever.

This is the way that clubs used to be run. I am talking about 2 or 3 years ago. I saw it a lot in Happy Garden, and Wildenrath, even PArkschloss Dali. It still is the case in Schieferhof, but I have never seen an incident there, and the regular customers know what all the rules are.

The problem has been the proliferation of clubs.

There are so many clubs, that they have to fight hard to get their share of the same number of girls, and the same number of guys. They are not in as strong a negotiation position, bioth with the girls and the guys.

When there were fewer clubs, the club could better afford to kick a girl out or bar a customer. Now, in order to stay in business they have to accept a lot more from both sides. The problem is it ruins the whole atmosphere of the club, and makes the experience bad for all involved.

I wish more clubs would do more to combat this problem.

Peter,

Excellent, this is just they way it should be run.

I actually sometimes wish CBGB would in fact delete all his post ;-) but then once in a while (every 100 post or so) there is something of substance.

On to another thing: Can any of you guys tell me a bit about Bad Nauheim as a place to hang for a few days. I was thinking of making that town my base camp for my next trip to the FRA area clubs.

Chivaz

I have a good idea for the Kinos at places such as World and Oase:

Instead of showing that crappy porn they have usually running, they should pay internet membership to the Big Sister club and show that in the Kino. Think about it, you are getting a bbbj in the Kino, and in another country is Fred having some free fun in Big Sister waving to us. We would of course wave back :-)

I think this would make the Kino experience much more fun and even get that dull World kino going.

LOL Chivaz :)

When I visited a small club in Bonn, a German client asked me about services in the US. I immediately gave this poor soul a very strong warning about American women aka Americunts, the worst women on the planet. I have been to nearly 36 different countries in virtually every region of the planet Earth, I told him from my experience, American women rank dead last. I told him that FKK type clubs do not exist in the US, and selling or buying a prostitute's services is a criminal act in virtually every county of the US and can get you in serious trouble. I told him that even if he found a woman, she would be subpar or too expensive, I remember New York call girls who would be merely average by FKK standards, charge nearly $1000US for a half hour( a half hour in New York is ten minutes in Dusseldorf), the really good ones are ridiculously expensive. I told him that I left the US and live in Australia, if he wanted something different, I told him to try out Australia if he wanted a different experience, and maybe also visit and shag some women in Singapore and Malaysia, those three places offer much better sex than the US, and a different alternative to Europe, as this German customer was bored and wanted something "different". I recommended a nice club in Sydney, which has views of the Opera House and Harbor, I told him he could look at the beautiful scenery while he was 69ing some Aussie blonde or an Asian babe. Remember, don't go to the US for pussy, I told him, go there for other things, wide open spaces, the right to own your gun, the opportunity to get rich, the right to say whatever you want, the best movie theaters and theme parks in the world, those things that America has that the world doesn't. I went on and told him that Frankfurt was an Orlando for pussy mongerers, and Palace, Oase, and World, like the Walt Disney World of Pussy. I think he got more depressed after I discouraged him. The US gets compared to the Roman Empire, yet the Romans had better pussy. I guess in light of things I am the American equivalent of Maximus Decimus Moridius, I love America but think American women are cunts, and am living in exile in the land down under, which has much better quality pussy than the US.

"Can any of you guys tell me a bit about Bad Nauheim as a place to hang for a few days. I was thinking of making that town my base camp for my next trip to the FRA area clubs."

Chivaz,

I don't know specifically why you are trying to avoid Frankfurt --perhaps because of traffic or hotel rooms too expensive or what-- but why do you specifically pick Bad Nauheim as an alternative accomodation base? Is it because of location between the various clubs you might visit?

Sometimes during large Messe events in Frankfurt, when hotel room prices there are just too over the top, I have taken refuge in Bad Homburg, which is well situated for Oase of course. But also just next to the A5 for World and a short jump for Palace in Frankfurt (A5 to A61 exit Hausen, etc.). Also BH has a nice atmosphere, lots of good restaurants (expensive, though), a good park, thermal baths, and a speilbank! A decent selection for hotels too...probably a stronger candidate than Bad Nauheim...

I've tried Nad Nauheim. Has the advantage of being near (if you have a car) to World and Oase. If you like architecture it has amazing spa buildings (Jugendstil I think but I could be completely wrong about the style - not my speciality), and it's only a few minutes from Butzbach with its lovely town square The Dolce hotel is good, but prices are only a little lower than Frankfurt. The downside is that it is not a big city. FD Roosevelt spent holidays there with his parents, and Elvis Presley was also connected with the place

Hi Ortos and Shiatsu,

The reason I ask is that I will probably be there 26-29 August, and there is messe in Frankfurt. I checked out Bad Homburg, and it seems they are running on the messe rate at the time. From looking on a map, I noticed Bad Nauheim as convenient for its proximity to World as well as Frankfurt, and I found a very reasonable priced hotel there that looks to be ok.

My plans only include World at this time in terms of FKK, but might spring by Oase just to check things out. As I will have to do at least 2 trips into Frankfurt centre, I want to place myself somewhere in the middle between World and Frankfurt. Any other suggestion?

Chivaz

If you have a car I don't think it makes much difference - as long as you stay near the autobahn. Bad Nauheim, Butzbach, or any other town around there. The difference is no more than 10 minutes - any problems are likely to come at the Frankfurt end (south of Bad Homburg) if you are travelling at peak times.

If you are going into FFM centre maybe train might work best at busy times of day?

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