East China - Shanghai

[QUOTE=DougTheHead;1648724]Thanks for the information. I guess I'll try it out for myself soon and bring one back to a hotel of my choosing. Did you ever any problems with them? Asking for more money, bad service, attempting to steal things, etc?

I'm also going to try to one of those bars that are known to have WGs.

Can anyone tell me, out of Judy's, Manhattan, Malone's and Bar Rouge, which one would have the highest number of freelance Chinese WGs? Would I be able to find an 8+ freelance Chinese stunner in any of these bars, or are they all mainly Vietnamese?

Thanks[/QUOTE]There are some Chinese at judy's and manhattans. In general the viets are better looking (at the bars not in general). I have never been to bar rouge. It is upscale and a heck of a lot more money. Bushwack has found a few Chinese girls at Paulaner in Xian tian di.

In the dark, they all look the same (smiley face if I could do one).

[QUOTE=Beijing4987;1647881]Perhaps we should stop flashing the address, especially in the title!

Fz.

18 told me they are staying inside for now. She briefly the lockdown.

BJ.[/QUOTE]My dumb but. What do you mean by "they are staying inside" or "lockdown. " I have never seen them outside or even in the lobby. If they are in lockdown are they working at just massage?

[QUOTE=ShanghaiGuide;1648837]For understand the situation, you should know, that chinese guys mostly do not go to a bar to pick up girls. For that they have a lot of KTV clubs all around the city in different ranges, starting for the small "worker" budget till the incredible expensive "manager" clubs! So all the "bar pickup scene" in Shanghai is focused on Foreigners, who naturally don't visit KTVs and don't have a lot of other options.

So because of that, there is nearly no chance to find a 8+ freelance Chinese Stunner in any bar searching for a customer! If she is that level of girl, she can make much more money and even much more easy in a KTV!

A very pretty chinese girl can get only with her sitting fee 'RMB 1000 to 1500 in some upscaled KTVs, and this will not even include any "special" service, if she want to provide more than only accompany, the Chinese guys will have to offer this girls most time at least 5000 or more to talk her out of the KTV, so why should a girl like that try to handle any business with "mean" Foreigners in any bar? Even Foreigners are rich in the eyes of many Chinese girls, the "upscaled" girls already realized, that most Foreigners expect to get a value for their spending, in contrast to many rich Chinese guys, who just will give her for example a iphone 6 plus as a welcome gift in the KTV without any expectation or chance to get something back from her. They just will do it to show other people in the room, that they are successfull and able to to that!

Sorry to destroy your illusion, but I guess you will fail with your target! Some girls who are able to communicate in english and focused on western customers will also try to find customers in exclusive hotel bars, but don't expect more than a 4+ there, because as written above, there must be a reason why she prefer foreigners. And the most popular reasons for that will be, that Foreigners have less choice, so they first they are less picky with the "quality" of the girls and second many Foreigners don't care about the age same like the most Chinese guys will care.

For some Foreigners a 35 years old asian woman can still be a option, Chinese guys would not pay a lot for a girl like that, because for the rate this girls in a hotel bar will ask (RMB 2000 at least), most chinese guys will expect to get a young pretty tall girl with big boobs already, not a 160 cm and 35 year old lady with a B-Cup.

I know it's stongly "generalized", and there will be Foreigners and also Chinese guys who think different, but over all I would say that is the "base of the market" here in Shanghai, and starting from that point, you can easily guess how big your chance will be to find a pickup bar with stunning chinese girls in Shanghai.[/QUOTE]Shanghai guide: an excellent market appraisal of Shanghai. I recommend that all the bruvvers read and digest this report, in order to help them to understand the WG market in Shanghai.

Enjoy and report.

P13.

Tazman099,

I was there about a month ago and the place was closed on a Saturday around 4:00 pm, there was some construction going on and it was hard to understand if the place was gone for good or just being refurbished. One of the construction guys told me in broken English that they moved and he gave a business card. Unfortunately I don't speak Chinese enough to ask him about more details, so I took a taxi to the "new place" but the area was too creepy and I didn't bother to get of of taxi and just went to Bodi instead. I had good times on HongSong, and I sure hope it didn't close for good or if it did move, it kept its quality level. So, if you had a chance to find out anything about it, please post it.

[QUOTE]On again and off again lurker making first review.

I had planned on reviewing two of the higher end massages in Gubei, but unfortunately one review is extremely limited.

HongSong (next to the Hongqiao Hilton):

Called there twice. First time on a Sunday evening and spoke with a guy with no English at all. All I could get is that there was no 'special' massage available. I figured perhaps because it was Sunday. Tried again on a Saturday night (maybe 11 PM) and a different guy answered telling me the special massage was on holiday (could get a foot massage) and would be available maybe 2 or 3 days later. As I live very close, I may just go there next time and see what happens.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Foxes;1645188]Hi there,

Cannot PM, have no pay-account. I met up with her last night, she's very sweet, sexy, working out hard to keep her body in shape. Her English is very good and we had a great evening, also talked a lot afterwards. She's only been here a little bit over a week. Get in touch with her and be nice.

Cheers[/QUOTE]I can confirm that! She just applied for a profile in our independent escort category I am just now sitting together with Cecilia to built up a profile for her on our page, and already talking with her is great already. And what I can see from the body is also worth to get her undressed!

[QUOTE=ShanghaiGuide;1649788]I can confirm that! She just applied for a profile in our independent escort category I am just now sitting together with Cecilia to built up a profile for her on our page, and already talking with her is great already. And what I can see from the body is also worth to get her undressed![/QUOTE]That means she will want a ridiculous amount!

Steven, Back to your comments about the girls not understanding that if they charge less, they will make more. I think I understand this from a shanghai girl perspective. It is very similar to the Chinese guy willing to spend 6000 rmb for a girl to show he has money. He may do this even though we would not. I think the girls see what other girls charge. They think if they charge less they will show they are worth less as a person. They will feel they are less of a person than the other girls. As long as one wants crazy money, they all will. They just want to show they are as good as other girls.

I had a Chinese girl friend for 2 years. It was all about telling their friends who had the best boyfriend. (I. E. What boyfriend spent the most on them. That showed they were worth much to the boyfriend and in general). It becomes how they measure their worth. If the boyfriend won't spend much, he is either a bad boyfriend or she is not worth good money. Guess which one they assume??

Don't misunderstand , thank you for providing a service for guys that want it. I guess they can charge whatever they want.

There are still girls to be had at manhattans that are 7/8+ on slow nights for less.

[QUOTE=SamCan;1649890]That means she will want a ridiculous amount![/QUOTE]I just checked the page and I think the amount is fair. She is hot and offers a lot of services.

Probably you can find cheaper but if you have to go to Manhattan at 01:00 AM to get one 300 rmb cheaper. I'll pass.

After more than 4 years in Shanghai, I never tried Manhattan since it is too much of an effort to go out just to pickup a girl. If I have to go out, I'll take the sauna option.

Anyway, as I said before. I met Cecilia several times and all I can say is she is a good fuck who just likes it everywhere! I remember my first anal with her. She just pull my cock out of her pussy and looking at me in the eyes put it back in her ass without a word but just a big smile!

That's why I'm happy to see her again and again. And yes I think in her case the price is right, compared to other Chinese sauna girls on the same page who are asking unreasonable fees!

[QUOTE=SamCan;1649890]That means she will want a ridiculous amount!

Steven, Back to your comments about the girls not understanding that if they charge less, they will make more. I think I understand this from a shanghai girl perspective. It is very similar to the Chinese guy willing to spend 6000 rmb for a girl to show he has money. He may do this even though we would not. I think the girls see what other girls charge. They think if they charge less they will show they are worth less as a person. They will feel they are less of a person than the other girls. As long as one wants crazy money, they all will. They just want to show they are as good as other girls.

I had a Chinese girl friend for 2 years. It was all about telling their friends who had the best boyfriend. (I. E. What boyfriend spent the most on them. That showed they were worth much to the boyfriend and in general). It becomes how they measure their worth. If the boyfriend won't spend much, he is either a bad boyfriend or she is not worth good money. Guess which one they assume??

Don't misunderstand , thank you for providing a service for guys that want it. I guess they can charge whatever they want.

There are still girls to be had at manhattans that are 7/8+ on slow nights for less.[/QUOTE]Your relationship you had with a Chinese girl. Seems more like the relationship you would have with a prostitute. I think you are just assuming Chinese woman argue who spend more money on them. Chinese woman for the most part are very classy and good people. If the woman really loves or even likes to be with you. Spending money on them is not important.

[QUOTE=TomSf;1650102]Your relationship you had with a Chinese girl. Seems more like the relationship you would have with a prostitute........... If the woman really loves or even likes to be with you. Spending money on them is not important.[/QUOTE]


I guess I forgot to say, my girlfriend was a massage girl and all her friends were massage girls. So yes, comparison to a prostitute relationship is fair. It did not start that way but when she realized I wasn't marrying her this is what it became. I am assuming nothing. I had multiple conversations with these girls. they liked to talk about what girl was bought what. as I said, these were massage girls

My comments were around girls who are on a website for money (i.e Prostitutes). I was comparing their thought process to what shanghai guide was talking about, not all Chinese girls of the 1 billion population.

Braquo.

If you have never been to manhattans don't knock it. 30-50 women all for hire and willing to go home with you. A decent number are willing to go over night for 1500 for all the sex you can muster. . 3-4 pops for me and I can throw them out whenever I have had enough. Cheaper than a SPA per hour and at least as much if not more choices.

300RMB cheaper at 1am??? I count 1500RMB cheaper if you are a big spender and accept the girls first overnight offer of 2000RMB
I picked one viet up LT last time at midnight for 1500 and picked her up the next night for 1000 LT at 10:30. if Cecilia is a 9, this viet girl was at least a 7.5 to 8.

If you consider 3500 for overnight fair + 200 more for anal (620 USD?) that is up to you as you have been with her. That is 2 to 3 nights budget for me at manhattans.
Quality vs quantity? I don't know as I have not seen her up front and glamor photos can hide a lot. She may be worth it or not. I can't say.
It is more than I would pay for my hobby based on one monger's word but we all have our own breakpoints.


Each to his own, stay safe and enjoy...

[QUOTE=SamCan;1649890]I had a Chinese girl friend for 2 years. It was all about telling their friends who had the best boyfriend. (I. E. what boyfriend spent the most on them. That showed they were worth much to the boyfriend and in general). It becomes how they measure their worth. If the boyfriend won't spend much, he is either a bad boyfriend or she is not worth good money. Guess which one they assume??[/QUOTE]I can totally confirm that. It's not only that the girls are greedy for expensive gifts, it's a really big pressure from all the girls around. I just had a similar experience with a good Chinese friend (not my girlfriend! She mentioned about some style of ring one day, which she liked very much. When I saw exactly that model, but only a copy (even a good one), I bought it, just as a small gift for a good friend. When I hand it over, I not pretend it's a real one. I told her. That it was only a copy, but she like the style and was very happy with that! Later she told me, all her female friends around asked her, who give that to her? And when she mentioned, that it's a gift I gave to her, but it's just a fake, not real, she got a lot of pressure from several girls who want to push her, to break up the contact with me (remind, we are not even boyfriend and girlfriend). From the other girls view, she was so stupid to "waste" her time with a guy who not even buy a real (and expensive) ring for her.

To make it clear, for herself she had no problem with that, she liked the style and she was happy, even kidding, that prefer the fake, because she will not be scared to loose it and I already promise her, to buy a new fake for her, if the ring will get lost. But later the point was, she lost "her face" in front of the other girls, which are all in the competition to have the most generous boyfriend or at least generous male friend!

A German friend just had a short 3-day holiday trip to the south with a bargirl (he met her in Shanghai in a girls bar in the Chang Yi Lu), and as he complained, the most important point for the whole trip was, how much he was willing to spend for her "gift" she want to buy there. He thought, he was generous already to invite her for the free holiday trip and pay for her flight, expenses, luxury hotel and so on. Even no sex has been included, just as friends!

But in this girls "system of value", she has to prove her personal value by show to the others later, what the guy bought for her. It was obviously, what will happen, when she come back to work after the holiday! All girls will ask her the "magic" question: what did he buy for you? Show me your gift! And if there would be no (expensive) gift, than exactly what you wrote above: "she is not worth good money" and by that she would have lost her face in her network of personal contacts.

But to be fair, it also depends on the age of the girls and the "class of society". That thinking about the guy as a "cash cow" is much more pronounced for younger girls I had the experience, that for women passed 30, this is nearly no topic any more. I guess, because that time the girls already found a way how to rely on their own income and carrier! And my experience is also, that you will find that kind of "rate your friends boyfriend by his gifts" much more in the class of society with lower education and less financial background, and to be honest, that's the "social level" where most of us western guys meet hot girls when we go out (for example in bars, KTVs and sauna clubs). The "higher leveled girls" will rate boyfriends much more to their character, kindness and so on, much more similar to western culture, but I think we all simply meet less of them, because this girls not go out to the places where we will be for date guys!

But there is really a "strong basic different" between western culture (at least for most western countries) and the Chinese culture about the point "men spend money for women". I know for example many German girls, they don't even like to get their drinks paid, because they don't want to "own" anything to a guy who is not in a closed relationship.

And here is really a very big difference to the Chinese culture! Nearly no Chinese girls will even understand the idea of this story! From her view, it is the basic task of a man, to spend money for a woman. And it doesn't matter how much, there is definitely not even a tiny obligation for her to give something back! So also no need to feel guilty, even a guy she don't like and never ever will even kiss him spend RMB 100 K for 200 K for jewelry and bags on her. She will take the gifts, be happy and not even think about entered into any consequent obligation neither will think she has a reason to feel guilty, because her view will be, if the man give it to her, than because he want to give, so not her problem, if he expect something he will never get from her!

Many western woman would for sure refuse a expensive gift like that (from a guy they have no interest in), because they will totally feel uncomfortable with the bad conscience, to own this man something and scared about what they have to do for that later.

A good example, how culture influence our thinking happened to me some weeks ago. I read a story about a young pretty girl who tried to find "temporary boyfriends" in different cities in China, because she want to travel to many places around China (by the way, if you also read the story, it was a fake, just published by the PR department from a mobile phone APP dating service). I read the article and thought it's a great idea, than in every city she has a local already. Who can guide her around, she is secure, not lonesome and her trip will definitely be much better.

That was what I thought, till I read the last paragraph of the article, where she was quoted with the sentence "I am young and I don't have money for ticket and all this things, but by that way I can still travel to all beautiful places in China without money"!

Even I spend so much time in China already and even I have so many Chinese friends, it needed to reach that point, till I realized, that she expect her "temporary boyfriends" to pay for everything, even for her air ticket to fly to this place! For sure, I also thought he has to invite her for some dinner or events in his city, but I not even think about she expect him to pay for everything.

But the point is, if you talk about this story with any Chinese, either female or male, they will read "temporary boyfriend" in the first sentence, and for all of them it is clarified, obviously and they not even will think about it, that she can travel for free! They not even will have the idea, that someone will not be totally clear about that!

And this different in thinking unconsciously influence every communication with Chinese girls. For example the girl will tell you, she lost her phone. You think: "what a poor girl, she work so hard for so less money and now she even lost her expensive phone. I hope I can comfort her to get over it"! The girl at that time is sure you understand her sentence like that: "Oh, she is so poor and even don't have a phone now, I have to buy one for her"! And if you don't bring her a phone soon, she will definitely by dissapointed, because she told you very clear, what to do, and as mentioned above, it's your "basic task" as a man to spend money for her!

Everyone who had this experience will just think, that this girl is so greedy, she only expect him to spend more and more money. But from my view it's a mistake to judge a Chinese girl with our western core values. I know it's more easy and based on our life experience, so we easily rate her down for that. Taking into account also the cultural background, could be she would get a totally different rating, for example a Chinese guy will not even think she is greedy, just normal!

[QUOTE=SamCan;1650132] + 200 more for anal[/QUOTE]To charge a (small fee) extra for anal was my advice to her, to avoid a problem, that I would never had thought about before, but told me just now from another girl who also offer anal on our page.

This girl had 2 customers already, where she tried to avoid anal, because they have been "gifted" with really huge "tools", but this two guys insist to do it, because she offered it online, they booked regarding to the offer, so they think she has to do it! And to avoid problems, she finally agreed and got hurt a lot!

I never thought about men, who will be so inconsiderate to a women, but seems some guys don't care if the girls got pain or not, as long as they got what they paid for.

So I recommended Cecilia to charge extra for anal as an option, because than it is still up to her, not to accept the extra money (and so also not accept the deal). And so she can every time refuse anal without "breaking a service promise".

This would not be necessary, if there would not be guys like above mentioned "on the road" who don't show respect to that girls, but from my view that was the best solution to care about the situation of the girls and same time not to cheat the guys.

[QUOTE=ShanghaiGuide;1649788]I can confirm that! She just applied for a profile in our independent escort category I am just now sitting together with Cecilia to built up a profile for her on our page, and already talking with her is great already. And what I can see from the body is also worth to get her undressed![/QUOTE]Hi, do you have the link to her profile page?

I was successful in getting a massage girl to actually break if off with me. I was a bit mean with her. We had many conversations about money and sex. After four years she finally told me they DATY was unclean, that saliva was dirty. I reminded her that she shared saliva every time she had a meal with others and that it could spread hepatitis. I also reminded her that she once had my penis in her mouth and that she had men's semen on her hands and breasts every day and put her finger into the man's anus. She complained when I got hand jobs at other "stores". In fact, when any of us visits any of these massage girls more than once they get bent out of shape, because your money has been claimed already. The other gal does not deserve your money. The girl who just dumped liked the phrase I taught her in english. " what's mine is mine, what's yours is mine" That is my ex-wife's mantra as well. Once one learns the numbers in Chinese they realize most conversations invoke money. The chinese worship money! I'm not sure if the male child comes in before or after money. I now only pay per service. And small gifts until she tries to up the ante.

[QUOTE=ShanghaiGuide;1650204]To charge a (small fee) extra for anal was my advice to her, to avoid a problem, that I would never had thought about before, but told me just now from another girl who also offer anal on our page.

.[/QUOTE]I have no issue with Cecilia charging whatever she wants. It's just higher than I am willing to pay. Good luck to her!

I also see we agree on the other point. That was what I was saying. It is a loss of face to be the "cheapest" girl on the shanghai nightlife page. I don't fault them for the way they think. It is different than western girls but that does not make it wrong.

Steven, you seemed perpelexed when you could not get the girls to realized they would make more money with smaller rate. I felt it had more to do with their cultural mindset vs believing you that they wouldn't make more money.

Always a pleasure! Until next time.

SAM.

P.S. BJ. Good to see you made it home ok.

[QUOTE=Paul178;1650214]Hi, do you have the link to her profile page?[/QUOTE]It's ok I found it!