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While the argument and accusations continue, Let Paul and his tourist friends continue paying whatever they feel can make them stand out. We residents will continue with our ways, we will live here for pussy only (LOL) and the tourists will come here for culture LOLOL. I really enjoyed pushing the jokers up the wall (and I am doing it again here right now. Please do reply we are enjoying the POVs) Amen!
[QUOTE=AssLover945;1466258]While the argument and accusations continue, Let Paul and his tourist friends continue paying whatever they feel can make them stand out. We residents will continue with our ways, we will live here for pussy only (LOL) and the tourists will come here for culture LOLOL. I really enjoyed pushing the jokers up the wall (and I am doing it again here right now. Please do reply we are enjoying the POVs) Amen![/QUOTE]Dear Ass,
You are interesting in an an odd sort of way.
Let me clarify something. I do not travel to Asia as a tourist. I have been doing business in the region for the past 25 years. I have lived in Asia. I enjoy Asian food, culture and women but that is not the reason I visit Asia. I spend time in Asia because I make a lot of money in Asia. I squeeze in a little mongering when I have the time.
I'm not advocating excessive tips. I'm pointing out what anyone who reads the forum can figure out, MPs like Cherry and Mango charge 800 for 120 minutes and the girls typically get a 1500 tip for good service. EZ charges 2400 for 120 minutes; Annie's charges 2500 for 120 minutes. These establishments build the tip into the upfront fee. A guy may leave a small tip on top of this for good service, but these establishments have already decided how much you will tip the girl. My recollection is years ago Annie's price structure was like Cherry and Mango. If I am correct I suspect their current price structure is in response to the guys who tried to get away with a cheap f*ck. Some of you other old timers may have a better memory than me and wish to confirm or correct me.
The problem with the smart asses is that they encourage MPs to do business like EZ and Annie's and build an automatic tip into the price of the service. Personally, when dealing with an MP girl I'd rather decide how large a tip the lady deserves.
Unfortunately dumb ass smart asses are unable to connect two thought and don't get it.
Sincerely, PK
[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1466317]MPs like Cherry and Mango charge 800 for 120 minutes and the girls typically get a 1500 tip for good service. EZ charges 2400 for 120 minutes; Annie's charges 2500 for 120 minutes. These establishments build the tip into the upfront fee.[/QUOTE]I can't agree with what you are saying, Paul. Thai girls frequently interchange and confuse the terms 'tip' and 'service charge' because they do not fully understand the English language. There is no reason for us to do the same.
Cherry, Mango, and most oily massage parlors have a basic charge as in your example above of 800bt for the room and a straight massage or conversation that goes along with it. A few years back and even now in many places, a punter selects a girl he wants and goes upstairs with her. No one is committed to sexual congress. After a little back massage, the girl will usually turn the customer over, and start to massage his legs and upper thighs and maybe accidently on purpose touch his erogenous zone. At this point she will ask if he wants extra service. They can either agree on a price for it or not. Then and only then after an agreement has been reached will the girl expect to receive 1500bt for her sexual services. That 1500bt is not a tip.
Again, the confusion comes from the fact that Thai girls and other Asian girls may call this service charge a tip, but it is not a tip. It is a misuse of the English language. A tip or gratuity is a voluntary additional payment made for services rendered. There is nothing voluntary about the oily massage service charge. If you don't agree to pay it, the girl will not boom boom you. End of story.
Example 1: Cherry & Mango and many, many other oily massage parlors have the 800bt. Room + basic massage charge plus a 1500bt service charge. Total cost for boom boom is 2300bt. In some places like Mango the girls will perform multiple shots. In some parlors there is only a single shot. In either case, you can tip a girl anything you want afterwards. I will usually tip 300bt to 500bt for very good service. 100bt for ok service, and Zero BT for lousy service.
Example 2: EZ and Annie's have combined the room and basic massage fee with the service fee. In these places both the girl and the punter have pre agreed to the extra service (boom boom) and price before they get to the room. The girl is not going to ask you if you want to boom boom. There is no need for negotiation. The deal has already been struck. That is the only difference. Afterwards, just like in the other case, you can tip anything you like, but I will tip 300bt to 500bt for very good service. 100bt for ok service, and Zero BT for lousy service.
Example 3: A 2 hour outcall at EZ is 3000bt. This includes the basic charge plus the service charge for sexual congress. And as in my other examples, I will tip 300bt to 500bt for very good service. 100bt for ok service, and Zero BT for lousy service. This is not rocket science.
Example 4: An overnight outcall from anywhere will include the basic charge plus the service charge, so if the price is quoted at 3000bt from 10pm to whenever morning wakeup time, then that is the all-inclusive price. Here is an example of what I am talking about from one of my favorite joints, Devil's Den:
Single Escort Outcall: 90 minutes is 2, 000bt; 2 hours is 2, 500bt; 3 hours is 3, 500bt; 4 hours is 4, 500bt; *Full day is 7, 000bt; and Over Night (10pm to 6am) 3, 500bt. And please note that the overnight outcall price is less than a 4 hour during business hours outcall. Again, I assure everyone reading this that a voluntary tip (there is no other kind of tip) of 300bt to 500bt for very good service. 100bt for ok service, and Zero bt for lousy service will be very appreciated by your DD minx. You can give the girl a 1000bt to 3000bt tip if you want to; not me.
Example 5: Bangkok Gold Escort service: up to 8 hours overnight 12000bt. Now that is pretty expensive, but it includes as many shots as you want (within reason) and the girls are supposedly hotter and of higher quality than your average Go Go girl or oily massage girl. Maybe that is true and maybe it isn't. My point with this example is that once again the price quoted is the all-inclusive price. And in the morning a tip is still voluntary. For a great night I might leave such a girl a 10% tip, but I am pretty sure that a 300bt to 500bt tip for very good service would still be appreciated. The BM who said it is right, "tipping is not part of the Thai culture." A 100bt for ok service would be fine, and Zero BT for lousy service would be most appropriate considering the upfront non negotiable price.
[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1466317]Dear Ass,
You are interesting in an an odd sort of way.
Let me clarify something. I do not travel to Asia as a tourist. I have been doing business in the region for the past 25 years. I have lived in Asia. I enjoy Asian food, culture and women but that is not the reason I visit Asia. I spend time in Asia because I make a lot of money in Asia. I squeeze in a little mongering when I have the time.
I'm not advocating excessive tips. I'm pointing out what anyone who reads the forum can figure out, MPs like Cherry and Mango charge 800 for 120 minutes and the girls typically get a 1500 tip for good service. EZ charges 2400 for 120 minutes; Annie's charges 2500 for 120 minutes. These establishments build the tip into the upfront fee. A guy may leave a small tip on top of this for good service, but these establishments have already decided how much you will tip the girl. My recollection is years ago Annie's price structure was like Cherry and Mango. If I am correct I suspect their current price structure is in response to the guys who tried to get away with a cheap f*ck. Some of you other old timers may have a better memory than me and wish to confirm or correct me.
The problem with the smart asses is that they encourage MPs to do business like EZ and Annie's and build an automatic tip into the price of the service. Personally, when dealing with an MP girl I'd rather decide how large a tip the lady deserves.
Unfortunately dumb ass smart asses are unable to connect two thought and don't get it.
Sincerely, PK[/QUOTE]To Paul.
I think tipping is up to customer if they got good service from the girl, the girl at Annie ask and demand for a tip even service is bad that is why I no longer go there extra service charge should be there tip, I go to Tulip they never ask for extra tip and I alway get good service there is up to the customer.
Fast Eddie 48
[QUOTE=Natty Bumpo; 1466337]I can't agree with what you are saying, Paul. Thai girls frequently interchange and confuse the terms 'tip' and 'service charge' because they do not fully understand the English language. There is no reason for us to do the same.
Cherry, Mango, and most oily massage parlors have a basic charge as in your example above of 800bt for the room and a straight massage or conversation that goes along with it. A few years back and even now in many places, a punter selects a girl he wants and goes upstairs with her. No one is committed to sexual congress. After a little back massage, the girl will usually turn the customer over, and start to massage his legs and upper thighs and maybe accidently on purpose touch his erogenous zone. At this point she will ask if he wants extra service. They can either agree on a price for it or not. Then and only then after an agreement has been reached will the girl expect to receive 1500bt for her sexual services. That 1500bt is not a tip...[/QUOTE]There are two separate transactions in the typical oily massage shops like Mango or Tulip. The shop charges 400 baht for each hour and that is all they are interested in. The girl gets 100 per hour of that. If it is an outcall the shop charges 500 baht each hour and the girl gets 200 per hour. The second transaction is between the girl and the customer. The 1500 baht is for services and and she keeps all of it. It is expected if she gets naked and only gives a hand job, blow job or full sex. Where my girlfriend works she has to pay the shop 260 baht for the first customer of the day and 70 baht for each customer after that to help defray operating expenses. She also has to buy the condoms, oil, soap, boxes of tissue, mouthwash and any other supplies from the shop. In addition are costs such as transportation and food, hiv checks etc. Ladies with no customers pay 90 baht a day for showers, getting hair and makeup etc. Also as I had mentioned in a previous post the are a lot of punitive fees if the girls are late, or want time off. Fees and expenses really add up during the course of a typical month. Tips for my girlfriend range from none (because some mistake the 1500 as a tip) to 6000 baht and never once did she complain of the level of tipping or lack of and she is a real PSE performer. The big tippers were generally repeat customers.
[QUOTE=Natty Bumpo; 1466337]Example 1: Cherry & Mango and many, many other oily massage parlors have the 800bt. Room + basic massage charge plus a 1500bt service charge. Total cost for boom boom is 2300bt. In some places like Mango the girls will perform multiple shots.
Example 2: EZ and Annie's have combined the room and basic massage fee with the service fee. In these places both the girl and the punter have pre agreed to the extra service (boom boom) and price before they get to the room. The deal has already been struck.
Example 3: A 2 hour outcall at EZ is 3000bt. This includes the basic charge plus the service charge for sexual congress. And as in my other examples, I will tip 300bt to 500bt for very good service. 100bt for ok service, and Zero BT for lousy service. This is not rocket science.[/QUOTE]
I've had completely different experiences but agree it is not rocket science:
1. Oilies [mango, cherry, tulip, snow white] all used to charge 800 for two hrs and no minimum tip but everyone knew to give at least 1500. Then some idiots underpaid, so now the standard charge is the 2300, plus whatever extra you wish to tip. And multiiple shots is the NORM. A couple of years ago I had 3 shots in two hrs. Getting older and if I get 2, am exhausted, LOL!
2a. Annies has a set price plus extra tip -- and it's the norm to get two shots. If you're lucky, sometimes more.
2b and 3. EZ is different, the norm is NOT multiple or even two shots. You have to ask ahead of time and often they charge extra for multiple shots and +A. I had outcall back Oct 2012, one shot. I emailed management afterwards and was told only certain girls provided two shots [not multiple] and +A was additional extra charge. I have their emails still on file. For +A, girls were charging extra 1000.
Service is not guaranteed....only the amount of time and shots. Over the years, I've had only a few bad ones. Whereas with soapies, it's more hit and miss. Everyone has their own preferences. Some like oilies, others go-go/bars, etc......
As always, YMMV
[QUOTE=Natty Bumpo;1466337]I can't agree with what you are saying, Paul.[/QUOTE]Natty,
Thanks for the detailed, very clear, well organized presentation. I learned a lot. I appreciate the distinction you make between a service charge and a tip. Sorry about my sloppy language.
For what it's worth, my recollection is that back in the late 80's and 90's when the discussion started about upgrading the massage the girls established what I wanted and that I was going to pay extra but then left the amount "up to me." After the girl got to know me we skipped this whole discussion. The base charge was next to nothing; and with the "tip" the total cost was a few hundred bahts, slowly inflating over the years. Across the board, the bargirls, MPs and FLs always left it up to me and trusted me to treat them fairly. I recall the girls being very sweet, pretty and not the least bit mercenary. Of course this was too good to last; or maybe it was not as good as I remember it. On my trip last December, which was my first trip to Bangkok that included mongering in a few years, things had changed.
Of course all of this is irrelevant, though I enjoy having an opportunity to reminisce.
I have no experience at Cherry, it had just opened when I was last in Bangkok; I have no recollection of ever visiting Mango; and I didn't make it to Tulip. On my last trip I visited a couple of MPs in the Soi 24-26 neighborhood and was always charged 2000+ upfront. At the end of the session I "tipped" the girl a couple hundred on top of that if I liked her. I'm glad I read your post before my next trip. Now I'm clear on the expectations of the girls' who work at Cherry and Mango, two venues I'm planning to visit.
I'm reconciling the relatively low cost of an overnight booking for a girl from Devil's Den or an MP. I guess it's because the girl expects to sleep most of the time. I've read and heard reports that these girls get pretty testy if you expect them to f*ck all night or wake them in the middle of the night for another round. For what it's worth I've booked high end escorts who were pretty, provide excellent service and delivered that service all night. Not that I can f*ck all night, but from beginning to end we were either screwing or cuddling and kissing, and when I was exhausted they massaged, caressed and coaxed me until I was ready for another round. I think their ability to keep me going all night was a source of pride for them.
Thanks again, Paul
[QUOTE=Fast Eddie 48; 1466341]To Paul.
I think tipping is up to customer if they got good service from the girl, the girl at Annie ask and demand for a tip even service is bad that is why I no longer go there extra service charge should be there tip, I go to Tulip they never ask for extra tip and I alway get good service there is up to the customer.
Fast Eddie 48[/QUOTE]Fast,
Absolutely.
As I mention in my reply to Natty's post, I remember when the girls never named a price or asked for a tip. They were sweet, not at all mercenary and trusted me to treat them fairly. I think we're the ones who spoiled a good thing.
I think of Tulip as a Bangkok institution. It's been a few years since I went there so I can only rely on what I read. Damn I wish I knew about ISG a few years ago. Tulip's ladies' performances sound as raw and kinky as ever. The only criticisms seem to be that some of the ladies are getting pretty old and are not the prettiest gals in town. I plan to find out for myself in December.
Paul
[QUOTE=Traveler1234;1466373]I've had completely different experiences but agree it is not rocket science:[/QUOTE]
Guy with the red umbrella,
It seems you and Natty agree it's 800 plus 1500 plus a small tip for good service.
[QUOTE=Traveler1234;1466373]1. Oilies [mango, cherry, tulip, snow white] all used to charge 800 for two hrs and no minimum tip but everyone knew to give at least 1500. Then some idiots underpaid, so now the standard charge is the 2300, plus whatever extra you wish to tip.[/QUOTE]This is why I get p*ssed at the smart ass dumb asses who like to stiff the girls. See also my two previous posts about what it was like twenty years ago when the girls were sweeter and more trusting, and the grass was greener and the skies were bluer. Etcetera. Etcetera. And you should hear my high school chums talk about what Pattaya was like in '70 when they were on R&R.
Paul
P.S. I'll be impressed if you know what I mean by the red umbrella.
[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1466395]Guy with the red umbrella,
It seems you and Natty agree it's 800 plus 1500 plus a small tip for good service.
This is why I get p*ssed at the smart ass dumb asses who like to stiff the girls. See also my two previous posts about what it was like twenty years ago when the girls were sweeter and more trusting, and the grass was greener and the skies were bluer. Etcetera. Etcetera. And you should hear my high school chums talk about what Pattaya was like in '70 when they were on R&R.
Paul.
P. S. I'll be impressed if you know what I mean by the red umbrella.[/QUOTE]Stiffing and overpaying are both to be blamed. Either screws up a good thing. One produces resentment and the other sky high expectations.
[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1466392]Fast,
Absolutely.
As I mention in my reply to Natty's post, I remember when the girls never named a price or asked for a tip. They were sweet, not at all mercenary and trusted me to treat them fairly. I think we're the ones who spoiled a good thing.
I think of Tulip as a Bangkok institution. It's been a few years since I went there so I can only rely on what I read. Damn I wish I knew about ISG a few years ago. Tulip's ladies' performances sound as raw and kinky as ever. The only criticisms seem to be that some of the ladies are getting pretty old and are not the prettiest gals in town. I plan to find out for myself in December.
Paul[/QUOTE]Tulip is great for performers, but the ageing talent pool can be quite hard on the eyes these days. When it was the only game in town and all the gals were service oriented, it was marvellous. Of course Baron's really was the best.
[QUOTE=Traveler1234;1466373]Oilies [mango, cherry, tulip, snow white] all used to charge 800 for two hrs and no minimum tip but everyone knew to give at least 1500. Then some idiots underpaid, so now the standard charge is the 2300, plus whatever extra you wish to tip. And multiiple shots is the NORM. A couple of years ago I had 3 shots in two hrs. Getting older and if As always, YMMV[/QUOTE]Been a customer for a long time and have never paid upfront. Always hand the total fee to the cashier on my way out: 1900, 2100, or 2300. Never paid or "tipped' over that no matter what the service level and have always had magnificent repeats.
[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1466405]Stiffing and overpaying are both to be blamed. Either screws up a good thing. One produces resentment and the other sky high expectations.[/QUOTE]Goat,
You're right. A good reason why ISG should be a reliable source for information about tipping norms.
My last trip I was giving the MP something around 2200 to 2500 as I recall; and at the end of the session I gave the girl another 200-300. The girls seemed okay with that. Sounds like I was in the ball park. I didn't know if this was a customary tip at the time. It just seemed about right to me. I now understand that at Mango and Cherry I can expect 800 + 1500, and may wish to tip a couple hundred baht on top of that, which, total cost, is in the same range as what I was paying with tip last December.
I don't mind it when a girl expects a generous tip for performing like a super star. I couple hundred baht more is less than US$10 and encourages her to continue performing at a high level. I get angry with girls who assume a tip for a lackluster performance or a large tip for a mediocre performance. This is why I liked Natty's description of the different amounts he tips depending on the girl's performance.
Paul
[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1466407]Been a customer for a long time and have never paid upfront. Always hand the total fee to the cashier on my way out: 1900, 2100, or 2300. Never paid or "tipped' over that no matter what the service level and have always had magnificent repeats.[/QUOTE]A while back wasn't their a ruckus about having to pay up front and didn't you report that you refused to go along with this. I also seem to remember the shops claimed they started the practice because too many customers were stiffing them. At least that's what I seem to recall. If I'm correct, I think because you're a regular the shop knows they can trust you. Years ago we always paid on the way out. I paid the shop its fee and then I gave the girl her "tip" as I was leaving.
If I lived in Bangkok and had a few girls I saw on a regular basis, I don't think I'd feel obligated to tip them. Airlines award me frequent flier miles. Businesses I buy large quantities of products from give me volume discounts.
We "tourists" should know the norms and avoid over-tipping, but I don't think we should expect the same treatment as you regulars.
[QUOTE=Fast Eddie 48; 1466341]To Paul.
I think tipping is up to customer if they got good service from the girl, the girl at Annie ask and demand for a tip even service is bad that is why I no longer go there extra service charge should be there tip, I go to Tulip they never ask for extra tip and I alway get good service there is up to the customer.
Fast Eddie 48[/QUOTE]FE,
Just because one girl is bad, you blame them all? Its your right to do as you please. Its not about the place, its about the girl.