FKK Golden Gate / old Villa Vertigo in Grefrath NRW

Here are the links to my reports for this weekend for the days I spent in Kiev (Friday and Saturday) for those who may be interested:

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1249951&viewfull=1#post1249951[/url]

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1250457&viewfull=1#post1250457[/url]

Thanks to the recommendations and information on this thread, I decided to do Sunday night at VV, for the reasons I stated in earlier posts. Sunday I took the Wizz Air flight from Kiev's Zhulyany airport to Dortmund, Germany. I rented a car from Sixt and gave up on the idea of going by train because the connections would cause significant delay in my arrival time at the club. I made the easy highway drive from Dortmund Airport to Villa Vertigo with no problem.

I had cancelled my reservation at the Mercure Hotel in Krefeld and made arrangements to sleep overnight at VV. I paid them the 100 Euro when I arrived at VV. There was a glitch however. When the club was closing I approached the reception desk to ask about which room I should sleep in, the girl there said it is not possible for me to sleep at the club that night. I told her that I was told before that it was possible and made those arrangements before when I arrived at about 5:00 PM, and I said that they cannot simply change their minds without informing me, because now it was 1:00 AM and more difficult for me to secure a hotel. Ultimately, it turned out to be a language barrier issue, because when I started demanding that they reimburse me the 100 Euro I paid them earlier, she said,"Oh, you paid earlier? I don't have it listed here in my list." They went to check with someone (I guess the boss) and then they realized that the girl who had received my payment had goofed, and had not written it down for the one who would be there at closing. So for those of you thinking of doing this option, make sure you pay the 100 Euro early on when you arrive, and double check that things are known and recorded properly throughout the evening, since you may find yourself out in the cold due to the confusion that can happen with the way they apparently do things at this club. But all worked out in the end. The room I received was every bit as comfortable as a hotel room. It was one of the upstairs room with a private bathroom and shower. I had not gotten near any of these rooms during the night as they were not available to session in and the girls I chose led me to the downstairs rooms. These rooms were very hot and I ended up sweating a great deal in those rooms when I was having sex with the girls, which was uncomfortable.

However, I did have a great night there Sunday night, nailing three hotties, including a petite Romanian girl whose name I forgot, then the awesome looking black haired beauty Melissa, whose body is a 9 or 10 in my opinion. Melissa said she is from Albania. Last there was the blond and sexy Magda (Polish) , a sweet girl and very enjoyable. All girls demanded 100 Euro / hr (50 + 50). There were relatively few girls at VV this past Sunday who looked good enough for me to consider for a session. Melissa was the only one who stirred my imagination and is still banging around in my head because of how hot her body is. Wow.

The lack of access to the nicer upstairs rooms at VV even on an off night like Sunday night when there were relatively few girls working compared to the numbers on Friday and Saturday nights, means that these nicer rooms are irrelevant to considering whether to attend VV or not. In my opinion, the experience at FKK Oase or even FKK Palace in Frankfurt area, far surpasses VV on a Sunday night. Because of the crowding and dearth of adequate access to the nicer rooms, it is sure that Friday and Saturday nights will be more comfortable at the Frankfurt area FKK's due to the size and capacity of the facilities in relation to the quantity of customers, although some may want to attend VV despite these shortcomings, due to the party atmosphere on Friday and Saturday nights at VV, which is lacking at FKK's such as Oase and Palace.

In the morning, I drove to Weeze airport (an easy drive) and flew on a cheap Ryan Air flight to Madrid for Monday night, where I went to Factory Air club which in near the airport. The club was poorly attended on a Monday night, with very few girls. Nevertheless, I had two very good sessions with blond Romanian Kassandra, and black haired Romanian Andrea. The prices uniformly demanded by all girls were 75 Euro per half hour and 150 Euro per hour, with no entrance fee. The facilities at Factory Air are much nicer than at Flower's Park. Nevertheless, the point of comparison is the German FKK's, where the girl rates are 100 Euro / hr, but with a 75 Euro entrance fee and in most cases far nicer facilities. Factory Air only comes out a little less expensive than the German FKK's if you do only one or two half hour sessions. Otherwise, the higher girl prices at Factory Air in Madrid, quickly overtake and surpass the net prices for longer sessions at the FKK's. For example, a typical night of three sessions of an hour long each would cost 450 Euro at Factory Air in Madrid, but only 375 Euro at FKK Palace in Frankfurt. Conversely, two half hour sessions at Factory Air in Madrid would cost 150 Euro total, whereas at FKK Palace it would cost 175 Euro (two 50 Euro sessions plus entrance fee of 75 Euro). For a mongering trip intending extensive sessions, clearly germany's FKK's are a better destination.

LJ

Melissa and Magda, good choices Liljoey! Glad you made it to VV.

So you slept alone at VV. The main house was a former hotel.

[QUOTE=Nille Copenhagen; 1250631]Melissa and Magda, good choices Liljoey! Glad you made it to VV.

So you slept alone at VV. The main house was a former hotel.[/QUOTE]Yes, slept alone, which was just as well because I was exhausted from my Kiev escapades and hadn't slept more than two hours Saturday night after my duo with Ada and Lera from Rio strip club. In fact, I was slapping my own face to keep my eyes open while driving from Dortmund to VV club Sunday afternoon. So I needed rest so I could function Monday night in Madrid.

I had asked Melissa to join me after club closing from 1:00 AM to 3:00 AM, but she said she had a regular who had already invited her for an overnight. Magda and the first girl (whose name I forget) wanted to stay only for all night until the morning, but not for only two hours as I wanted. The reason was that they lived almost an hour away, and would then have to drive home late at 3:00 AM and either didn't have a ride then, or didn't want to drive themselves then. So I slept. If Melissa had been with me, I'm sure I would not have been able to sleep. In fact, after our session, which was pretty intense, Melissa said to me,"You want to do this to me all night? You will kill me like this!" She's a bit crazy and funny like that. She said she would let me know if her regular cancels. But she too only wanted all night, and not just until 3:00 AM.

To respond to some of your PM comments and questions, I didn't go to Madrid to fuck Romanian girls. The reason for my being in Madrid was simply because I had the lowest airfare to Europe by flying into Berlin and coming home from Madrid. It lowered the airfare cost by several hundred dollars from mid $800's to $519, and Madrid was ok to spend a night in because there are some fun clubs in Madrid too. There was a $50 Easyjet flight from Berlin to Madrid, so my initial airfare costs when contemplating just a Berlin / Madrid trip were quite low. Then I changed my plans and I replaced the 3 nights Berlin, with 2 nights Kiev and 1 night VV in NRW Germany. I didn't go to Madrid for the purpose of fucking any particular nationality. Whoever were the hottest girls I would meet would be fine. It turned out that in the club I went to in Madrid on Monday night, it was an off night, and instead of the usual 70 girls (per prior reports on the Madrid thread), there were only about 20 girls. The two girls that most appealed to me turned out to be in fact Romanian girls, by coincidence. Last time I was in Madrid at a different club, it turned out to be a Hungarian and a Brazilian girl who captured my interest.

Also, yes I think Melissa@VV could compete with girls from Kiev, as although I would describe Melissa's face as sexy and exotic rather than model pretty, her body is spectacular by any world standard, and has perfect shape and tone. But then so did blond models Darina and Lera in Kiev, and brunette Ada, have awesome bodies.

You may reference some of my prior posts which discuss and compare the pros and cons of FKK's versus Kiev, to answer your question about how Melissa compares with the girls in Kiev.

In general my opinion is that in FKK's one will be able to get consistently good GFE service, including uncovered blow job, DATY. 69, various positions, all done with a smile and fun attitude. Whereas, in Kiev it will depend on the girl, and on your skills in interviewing and interacting with a girl to determine in advance of taking her home with you whether she is likely to give good GFE service. The uncovered blow job is the element that most often is the issue, as the girls at Rio strip club in Kiev tend to be young university age girls who are health conscious and prefer covered BJ and safe sex, although a fairly good number will perform a natural uncovered blow job. In FKK-land the uncovered blow job is standard and expected.

On the other hand, in Kiev you will be able to find and have sex with girls who are far more beautiful than most girls at the FKK's, and tall amazing looking girls are all over the place. Also in Kiev it is possible to have good sex far more cheaply than at an FKK. The minimum you would pay for an hour of sex at FKK Palace is 75 Euro entrance plus 100 Euro for 1 hour session. 175 Euro today is $231 USD. So while one would spend $231 USD for an hour of sex at FKK Palace, one could find a hot escort girl in Kiev for $75 USD or $100 USD. The only way to bring down the cost of the individual session in an FKK is to session with more girls and spread the entrance fee cost over more girl sessions. So if you did three 1 hour sessions at FKK Palace, the cost of each would be 100 Euros, plus one third of the entrance fee cost, for a net cost per 1 hour session at FKK Palace of 125 Euro, which is $165 USD per hour. So the bottom line is that the costs for an hour of sex in FKK Palace ($165 / hr if you do three 1 hour sessions) is more than double the $75 / hr cost of sex available with hot girls in Kiev from escort websites.

However, there is a caveat to this. In the FKK you see the actual girls beforehand and choose from what you see. In the case of the escort websites in Kiev, which use fake pictures for the most part, you cannot see the girl until she shows up at your door. So what you must do is send her away if she doesn't look good enough. And then you must continue this process until a hot girl shows up at your door. It doesn't help to yell at the escort service phone girl to send you a skinny, pretty, sexy girl. They send you what they have and what they want to. However, since the population in Kiev has a statistically high percentage of hot girls in it, it is usually possible to get a hot girl at your door eventually, if you stay with it and keep trying. It just takes a little while and a few tries. If you read the reports on the Kiev thread, you will see that this has been the experience of most guys who have used the escort websites.

I only tried to do this method, of using escort websites in Kiev and trying a few times until a hot girl showed up, during the daytime hours, because I prefer going to the Rio strip club which opens at night, because at the strip club I can see the girls in advance, play with them in a private dance a bit to gauge their sexuality, connection and chemistry with me, and speak to them, in advance of making a choice or a decision about which girl I want to invite home with me. Also, at the strip club, it is possible to see and choose a far more beautiful girl than you will ever be likely to get when using the internet website escort services when you must wait for a hottie to "accidentally" show up.

However, at the strip club it costs more because there is a three hour minimum date requirement costing $300 USD, which is still a rate of $100 USD / hour, but you have to take a three hour session there. Some guys try to get the girls for the whole night or longer because there is only a marginal increase in cost for this, once you've already paid $300. For example, some girls at the strip club will stay all night for $400 USD. However, many guys don't want three hours, and want to limit a session to a 1 hour date, so the total they will pay will be less, so these guys must stick with the escort websites, or trying to meet girls in the streets and shopping malls, and try to get them for a low price.

So by comparison to the costs at FKK Palace where a three hour session would cost a total of 375 Euro or $496 USD, even the strip club cost in Kiev of $300 USD for "take out" is significantly less than the FKK costs.

In a nutshell, FKK's are better at uniform service by very pretty girls. Kiev is better for far more beautiful girls and lower prices.

LJ

Glad to have read [b]Liljoey[/b] that your Sunday trip to [b]Villa Vertigo[/b] was, generally speaking, both a pleasant and enjoyable experience!

[b]CD[/b]

[QUOTE=Captain Dan; 1251229]Glad to have read [b]Liljoey[/b] That your Sunday trip to [b]Villa Vertigo[/b] Was, generally speaking, both a pleasant and enjoyable experience!

[b]CD[/b][/QUOTE]Yes of course it was very enjoyable to be with girls like Melissa and Magda. Thanks to helpful advice from you, Nille and others, my trip was great, although exhausting.

When I think of the hotties I was with in Kiev, and of the incredibly hot body of Melissa in VV, and the two Romanian hotties in Madrid, my head spins. And it sure makes me want to get back soon. I'm sure you know the feeling.

[QUOTE=Liljoey; 1251322]Yes of course it was very enjoyable to be with girls like Melissa and Magda. Thanks to helpful advice from you, Nille and others, my trip was great, although exhausting.

When I think of the hotties I was with in Kiev, and of the incredibly hot body of Melissa in VV, and the two Romanian hotties in Madrid, my head spins. And it sure makes me want to get back soon. I'm sure you know the feeling.[/QUOTE]Hi Liljoey,

Way to go!

You must be in good shape, fucking all the beauties, all the traveling activities and hardly any sleep.

Yes I know the feeling, want to get back asap. Sometimes when I'm surrounded by beauties, I get picky and don't know who to fuck.

When I get home and think about it then I should have fucked some more.

Hi Liljoey.

NRW is quite competitive with RIO in term of cost, the experience and adventure are of cause different.

GT, VV, LR, PHG, ACA, Samya ect.

All day-entrance 50€ (ACA less) , including food and drink and use of the wellness facilities.

Assuming 75€/h and free pre-sessions. Free striptease / Lapdances on party nights.

1 girl for 3H or 3 girls with 1H each cost 225€ ($300) (I prefer diff. Girls during the day and relax between sessions)

If a session is bad then just try another.

Hotel from 40€

Car rent from 90€ for the weekend.

Rio costs: 1 girl 3H ($300) , Entrance fee, tips, PDs, lady drinks. To get to know the girls and aim for taking her home before some other dude does, then back to your place and fuck her in the late night.

1 girl strategy could be a hit or miss, disaster or fantastic session.

How much is the cost to rent an apartment I Kiev. I like the idea of having a private party in the apartment with a buddy and 3-4 sexy girls.

[QUOTE=Nille Copenhagen; 1251687]Hi Liljoey.

NRW is quite competitive with RIO in term of cost, the experience and adventure are of cause different.

GT, VV, LR, PHG, ACA, Samya ect.

All day-entrance 50€ (ACA less) , including food and drink and use of the wellness facilities.

Assuming 75€/h and free pre-sessions. Free striptease / Lapdances on party nights.

1 girl for 3H or 3 girls with 1H each cost 225€ ($300) (I prefer diff. Girls during the day and relax between sessions)

If a session is bad then just try another.

Hotel from 40€

Car rent from 90€ for the weekend.

Rio costs: 1 girl 3H ($300) , Entrance fee, tips, PDs, lady drinks. To get to know the girls and aim for taking her home before some other dude does, then back to your place and fuck her in the late night.

1 girl strategy could be a hit or miss, disaster or fantastic session.

How much is the cost to rent an apartment I Kiev. I like the idea of having a private party in the apartment with a buddy and 3-4 sexy girls.[/QUOTE]Nille, every girl I was interested in at VV (and there were not that many that were truly hot enough) demanded 50 + 50 for an hour and wouldn't do 75 / h. So I haven't broken through that lower priced door yet there.

But assuming there are guys that get the 75euro / hr price at NRW clubs like VV and Goldentime with girls as hot as Melissa (who is competitively hot enough to compare to the Kiev market) , then you are indeed correct that the costs for three hours of sessions at the NRW club would be 225 Euro, plus the 50 Euro entrance fee, totalling 275 Euro ($370 USD).

This lower NRW cost, that I didn't have access to, is competitive with what one would spend at Rio strip club in Kiev, since in addition to the girl fee of $300/3hours, one can easily spend up to another $100 USD (800 UAH) on strip club expenses (100 UAH entrance fee, private dances 200 UAH each, a 100 UAH tip for the manager at the bar where you are sitting, perhaps some 50 UAH tips for strippers that you want them to know they please you, and the cost of some drinks for yourself and perhaps a girl or two).

I also agree with your observation that it is an advantage that the 3 hours of sessions at the NRW club can be broken up among three different girls, and rest taken in between hour sessions so that more actual sex acts can be accomplished, and if one girl's performance is not stellar, then perhaps one of the other girls will do better. This is to be contrasted with the situation at Rio strip club in Kiev where the whole three hours must run continuously with the one girl for $300, and if she is no good then it is a $300 loss, and perhaps most guys will get off with having sex a maximum of two times in the three hour session, that includes transporting from the club, some pleasantries, conversation and drinks at your apartment, bathing or showering which all take up some time too. It's much more like normal life and not like the way it is at an FKK where everyone is bathed and naked and a moment away from throwing down a sheet on a nearby bed and starting to have sex.

For this very reason, I have taken girls out of Rio for longer than 3 hours. Many will come for the whole night for $400. If you can take them out in the earlier part of the evening, you get many more hours of time for a small marginal increase in cost. Utilizing this option will cause the hourly rate of Rio costs to come out lower than even the NRW reduced session costs of 75euro / hr for those guys that get that price.

Another thing I've done at Rio to minimize the problem of a girl not performing up to par, is to take out two girls at once as a duo. So that if one girl is lacking I focus my attentions on the other. Admittedly a costly adventure. But often in the synergy that happens when two girls are together, each feeding off of the others enthusiasm or excitement, it can result in more fun than just a mere mathematical doubling of available pussy.

Lastly, as is obvious, Rio is not a low cost venue suitable as a source for populating your apartment with 3. 4 sexy girls. Rio is a place where you can get a really hot girl in a fast and efficient way at a reasonable price per hour in comparison to the market, although it forces you to buy three such hours minimum. So for guys in town for only a couple of days, it works.

But for such a party of 3. 4 girls as you envision at your apartment, I would recommend to get down and dirty with the websites like mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com and other escort websites, and go thru the process of meeting girl after girl, until you find ones that you deem good enough. Such girls can be engaged at discounted rates for multiple hour parties, as well as just stay for an hour for $75 or $100. Maybe even shorten the process by telling a few internet escort agencies to send their top 4 girls for you to meet for a party. Keep those that are ok, Send back the rest.

LJ

[QUOTE=Nille Copenhagen; 1251687]Hi Liljoey.

NRW is quite competitive with RIO in term of cost, the experience and adventure are of cause different.

How much is the cost to rent an apartment I Kiev. I like the idea of having a private party in the apartment with a buddy and 3-4 sexy girls.[/QUOTE]Apartment costs vary. You can look at what's possible on [url]www.kievapts.com[/url] The company I have used to see pics and rates of apartments, as well as a number of other apartment rental companies mentioned on the Kiev thread as also reliable. I usually go for a luxury one bedroom in the range of $120 to $130 / nite. But I'm fussy and enjoy being with a girl in a nicer envoronment. Other guys are renting units for much less. Also last weekend I actually rented a nice two bedroom unit because of the location I desired for $130 / nite (97euro) , which if you split the costs with your buddy, would be maybe $65 (48euro) per guy per nite.

[QUOTE=Liljoey;1252140]This lower NRW cost, that I didn't have access to, is competitive with what one would spend at Rio strip club in Kiev,[/QUOTE]At VV the hourly rate is more tricky, this has been discussed before. It seems like the girls go for 100 / h, I do stress it's possible with 75 / h at VV, so it's up to your timing and luck and the "regular" advantage. In other NRW clubs the 75 / h rate is normal (Aca 80 / h, DV and Brends 100 / h).

[QUOTE]Another thing I've done at Rio to minimize the problem of a girl not performing up to par, is to take out two girls at once as a duo. So that if one girl is lacking I focus my attentions on the other. Admittedly a costly adventure. But often in the synergy that happens when two girls are together, each feeding off of the others enthusiasm or excitement, it can result in more fun than just a mere mathematical doubling of available pussy.[/QUOTE]Well double up can also double the risk of a bad session, if the girls like to talk each other more than fuck or one girl is bored when you fuck the other. But I admit in general threesome is fun, just keep them busy.

NC

[QUOTE=Nille Copenhagen; 1252229]Well double up can also double the risk of a bad session, if the girls like to talk each other more than fuck or one girl is bored when you fuck the other. But I admit in general threesome is fun, just keep them busy.

NC[/QUOTE]I have definitely been there before, Nille. I cut my teeth on doing threesomes in the beginning of my mongering career at the Delrey Hotel in San Jose, Costa Rica, a unique hotel, whose ground floor lobby and bars fill up nightly with between 75 to 100 "chicas" (Spanish for "girls") from various Latin American countries aside from Costa Rica, like Nicaragua, Panama, Columbia and Dominican Republic, who are WG's, and if one is staying at the hotel, it is quite a simple matter to proceed from the lobby up to your room for a session. The prices there are low in comparison to Europe. The standard price demanded by Delrey girls is $100 USD (75 Euro) per hour and $300 USD (223 Euro) for the night. This demand can be negotiated downwards depending on the hotness of the girl, the lateness of the hour and the number of prospects available, the usual factors of the supply and demand equation. Many guys report getting the hour for $60 (45 Euro) or $70 USD (52 Euro) etc. The Delrey girls are considered a more expensive option locally, since in the full service massage parlor brothels all around the same area of San Jose the price per hour asked is around $40 USD (30 Euro) to $60 USD (45 Euro). Getting back to the Delrey hotel lobby, the girls often pitch a duo, and at such comparatively low prices, I agreed a number of times, and I then saw the behaviors you described, of the girls talking to each other interfering with a good session, the second girl being bored going off into the bathroom etc. Instead of participating, etc.

STRATEGIES FOR A GOOD DUO SESSION: So having been there done that, I instituted a policy that I don't usually do a duo unless each of the two girls actually likes girls and is bisexual, and also unless I have previously sessioned with each girl solo and developed a relationship of my own with her. These two factors help a lot to producing a better duo session. And you are right. Keep them busy is the better strategy. Now since a guy has only one penis, he has to be creative with this sometimes.

One of the things I have done that works well for me, is to lay on my back and get one of the girls up above me facing above my head as I DATY. From this vantage point I can reach up to her breasts and can see her stomach and face and see the effect my tongue is having on her body. This girl is being pleasured and before long usually making a lot of emphatic sounds of arousal. At the same time these sounds I am making her produce are having an effect of exciting the second girl and I set the second girl to doing a nice blow job and eventually putting on a condom and starting to fuck me cowboy position while I continue to eat out her friend. The girls get excited from each other. If I time things right it is sometimes possible to get the girls to cum at the same time, or at least the one receiving the oral sex will cum, and then the serious fucking begins as I turn my attentions to the cowgirl and pin her down missionary, and get the other girl to kiss her nipples or her neck while I fuck her. Everyone stays involved if I can help it. A girl who likes girls can enjoy simply watching her friend get fucked. Nothing worse than letting one of them feel neglected.

I'm sure everyone has their own strategies for a good duo. In fact, I invite comment from other readers to share their ideas on this. Maybe I can learn a few pointers.

LJ

[QUOTE=Liljoey; 1252537]I'm sure everyone has their own strategies for a good duo. In fact, I invite comment from other readers to share their ideas on this. Maybe I can learn a few pointers.

LJ[/QUOTE]Knowing both girls is an advantage, I've also done threesome with new, unknown girls with success.

I had some times ago done a threesome with a pair of twins, that was fun. It's like fucking the same girl double.

I think we pretty much have the same strategy,

I like to doggy one girls while the other is behind me, rubbing her tits against while we DFK.

DATY and CG at the same time is also my favorite.

The most annoying thing is to change condoms between the girls.

For the girls, a threesome means less work for them as they share the load.

Sometimes I'm too tired and tell the girls do their work, relaxing in the Kino, watching porn while the 2 girls suck on my dick, now that is a good way to recharge your battery.

I'm very selective when it comes to latino women AND selecting dangerous hobby locations such as Rio and Costa rica, friends of mine have done many trips and have shared their photos and their close calls. Both have been enough to steer me to europe. I would like your opinion on how the women and the overall safety of your various hobby destinations. How do they stack up to europe?

[font=tahoma]Great discussion guys. I am appreciative of the information, particularly the info about Ukraine contained in [b]Liljoey[/b]'s posts. But you might consider continuing this conversation in the General Info section as it has little relevance to [b]Villa Vertigo[/b]. Much thanks and I look forward to reading more :) [/font]

[QUOTE=Breadman;1252623]I'm very selective when it comes to latino women AND selecting dangerous hobby locations such as Rio and Costa rica, friends of mine have done many trips and have shared their photos and their close calls. Both have been enough to steer me to europe. I would like your opinion on how the women and the overall safety of your various hobby destinations. How do they stack up to europe?[/QUOTE]Although to my mind comparisons of different mongering venues have relevance to each venue compared, in deference to CD's recommendation I have posted a reply to your question at the following link in the General Info thread:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1089-General-Info&p=1252838&viewfull=1#post1252838

LJ