Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus!

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464074]As you said, there were no lockdowns for the Hong Kong flu and 1 M died. Perhaps had there been global lockdown only 100 K would have died. With social distancing and global lockdown, CV-19 death count will most certainly exceed 1 M. If zero social distancing and no lockdown, who knows how high that figure might be. So we are not able to make an apples to apples comparison, because the politicians in 1968 and 2020 took drastically different approaches.[/QUOTE]The world population is 7.7 billion people so of course almost 60 million people die every year, that is more than 160,000 a day. We should not alter our lives to save. 01% of the population especially when concerning COVID-19 which almost exclusively only affects elderly and people who have underlying health problems, they could easily die for numerous reasons. Telling the elderly and unhealthy people to be precautions is OK, maybe checking the health on a daily basis of anyone coming in contact with the elderly and unhealthy population is also a good idea.

Anything else is just not logical. The whole world is so afraid of death that logic goes out the window!

This needs to end, I thought for sure the UV-see radiation caused by the sun over the summer would snuff it out just like it does every year, but no they keep it going and now I am angry! You should be too! Our rights are being infringed upon, if you are scared you can stay home!

[QUOTE=Downandup;2463983]That is very negative, there are currently 140 vaccines in development for Wuhan Flu so there is a good chance that one might work, so far there has been good early results coming out of the trials of the first two to have reached phase three testing. This is a virus that has brought the world to a halt, no wonder billions of dollars are being spent to find a solution. Vaccine development normally takes decades as it's a slow and costly process but this time great efforts are being made to get something quickly.[/QUOTE]It is not negative, a little pessimistic perhaps but pessimism based on analysis of facts. An example of negativity is if someone says that he does not want a vaccine to be developed.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464034]Does this mean that you have not mongered since lockdown? Not even locally? Majority of your monger-brethren on ISG believe the coronavirus is overblown or the risk-reward ratio is acceptable to them given the low death rate.

Amongst European-based mongers I have spoken with, there exist three categories: (1) zero mongering since lockdown, (2) mongering but only private meetups at hotels, (3) already back in the clubs. The second category is of particular interest, because some men are seeing ex-FKK WGs as incall and outcall at a starting price of 150 EUR per hour. If / when the German clubs reopen and those same WGs return to the clubs, will the men that saw them outside the club revert to 100 EUR per hour pricing?[/QUOTE]That is correct. I have not mongered since lockdown. In fact, I have not mongered since before lockdown. I monger exclusively abroad, and since I have not been able to travel abroad, no mongering for me can be had. The thing is, and as I have noted before, I decided in early 2019 that I wanted to take 2020 off. After a decade and a half of steady mongering, I felt like I needed to take a break. So, I guess I could not have chosen a better year to do that. It's just that if you can have it but decide you don't want it, that's one thing. But when all of a sudden you can't have it even if you wanted it, well then psychologically that's another thing LOL!

Your comment about pricing is quite interesting and worrying. I don't know about those guys who have been paying 150 per hour, but I intend to go back to pre-lockdown prices. That said, what if the clubs that survive this believe they need to raise prices in order to remain sustainable as going concerns? Then what? I mean I was already paying in the neighborhood of 300 euros per hour with anal and BBBJ / CIM included in that. Go above that, and I feel that it's just greed and trying to extract too much from a monger. Get too greedy, and some will begin to balk. At the same time, I fear that so many guys are so "thirsty" for some FKK pussy that they would cave and pay an inflated price just to get back into the clubs.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464283]Some European mongers have told me "I saved so much money from not mongering during the lockdown, so overspending a little as the clubs and economy opens back up is no big deal". The European employment system subsidized 40 million EU citizens, many receiving 60-90 percent of their pay for sitting at home and doing nothing or barely working, for three months. Despite the higher levels of taxation, is such a system designed to handle that many people claiming unemployment subsidies at the same time and for such a long duration? What happens if a second wave results in a second lockdown? I could be just pessimistic, but people are already declaring victory on this, when it might not be over.[/QUOTE]My employment or pay were not impacted by the pandemic / lock down. This was generally true for many white collar employees in the US. As such, no change in the income levels. But for me personally, mongering spend in total has never been more than a small fraction of net worth even if I aggregated my cumulative mongering spend in my life. I am generally quite careful how much I spend. Mongering or otherwise. So, the lack of spend on mongering does not make any difference to my well being one way or other. What did make a massive difference was the gyration in the stock market and what I did with regards to my portfolio allocations in response to those changes. I will not be able to disclose those changes for privacy reasons. For example: If I had sold my stocks in mid February and stayed in cash, I would be roughly where I was earlier in the year (plus some amount of accumulated salary minus living expenses). If I had sold at the bottom in March, I would be down substantially and licking my wounds. If I had not sold any and in addition invested any surplus cash into the stocks at the bottom of the market in March, I would be strutting around because my net worth would be at all time highs. Again, which of these, or a combination of these happened to me is something I will not disclose but in general those decisions make a far more meaningful impact on my life than any putative changes in salary and lack of mongering spend. Speaking of which, I have been avoiding even my sugar babes locally. It does not make sense to me to avoid clubs but see tutes / escorts / sugar babes during this period. You always run the chance of catching the virus in each encounter, and it can be mighty unpleasant from multiple angles, not the least of which is that I am also married and have other considerations. SO there.

As for the spending by various governments. None have been as profligate as US. We are lucky that dollar is so strong. No other country can do a stimulus this massive and get away with minimal impact on currency. But now, our debt is astronomically high. Same / similar situation in multiple countries around the world, more or less. If ever interest rates normalize to historical levels, these governments would be needing to keep allocating a huge amount of annual budget to interest payments alone. So, they are in a bind. They have to make their central banks less independent, and keep purchasing own debt through central banks just to keep going. It is very much akin to digging deeper when you are in a hole and trying to get out. Till now, American employees collectively have bene just fine due to the massive stimulus you mentioned. Fed figures show the collective paycheck (including salaries and Federal transfer payments) for the country is higher now than it was pre pandemic, which is very weird. But this is set to run out in a few weeks unless they do a second round of stimulus. Will they do it? Does the government have the money? They did not really have any money for the first round either. Of course, they can always print more dollars. As I said, we are lucky because US is able to print money out of thin air and not suffer the consequences (for now).

I'm not sure that you understand the concept of "cause of death. " When someone has HIV, the virus does not kill them per se but rather leads to a compromised immune system where some other system becomes compromised due to a secondary infection. When someone has the flu, the virus does not kill them but rather leads to a systemic response or secondary infection. Cause of death would eventually be some sort of respiratory failure. Same with COVID 19. Saying that people aren't dying of COVID but rather pneumonia shows a lack of understanding of how your body and disease works. Understanding what pneumonia is and the fact that it is a reactive process caused by viruses, bacteria, or other microbes would be a good start to educating yourself before making your assertions.

Secondly, even if death is not the end result, prolonged-debilitating illness in an otherwise healthy young adult is often the case with covid19. The economic cost of millions of otherwise healthy, young adults being out of the workforce due to a 2-3 week illness will in itself be rather costly.

It's not as simple a matter as you make it out to be.

[QUOTE=MasterMonger;2464275]COVID-19 gives governments power and money, the rich and powerful don't care about COVID-19 either because no matter what you need to pay rent and eat. Most people agree they are overestimating the numbers. The reason being a person who tested positive for COVID-19 but dies from pneumonia is still counted as a COVID-19 death.

Here are the numbers:

Most people who are "reported" to have Covid-19 actually die of Pneumonia.

The CDC has a disclaimer stating, there is no way they can actually know the real numbers, as pertaining to all the information they provide about the cases and deaths "allegedly" concerning Covid-19. If you call their 800 number they will insist on you listening to the disclaimer before they tell you any numbers.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MasterMonger;2464275]Most people who are "reported" to have Covid-19 actually die of Pneumonia. [/QUOTE]That's because Covid-19 causes pneumonia in serious cases. This is a serious disease and you should not underestimate it. Unless you want to be this guy: [URL]https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-denier-die-from-covid/[/URL].

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2464332]What did make a massive difference was the gyration in the stock market and what I did with regards to my portfolio allocations in response to those changes. I will not be able to disclose those changes for privacy reasons. For example: If I had sold my stocks in mid February and stayed in cash, I would be roughly where I was earlier in the year (plus some amount of accumulated salary minus living expenses). If I had sold at the bottom in March, I would be down substantially and licking my wounds. If I had not sold any and in addition invested any surplus cash into the stocks at the bottom of the market in March, I would be strutting around because my net worth would be at all time highs. Again, which of these, or a combination of these happened to me is something I will not disclose but in general those decisions make a far more meaningful impact on my life than any putative changes in salary and lack of mongering spend.[/QUOTE]I don't know why you feel you can't discuss what you did. Well when I think about it, maybe I can think of some reasons. Anyway, your choice. I ramped up and substantially increased my investments in stocks when the market bottomed out, and now I have more money than I have ever had in my entire life. But I'm not strutting around though. It's more like wiping my brow with a "whew"! Because in the beginning I lost a lot of money. But I didn't panic and stuck with basic principles. Buy low! That's what I did (a lot), and I was handsomely rewarded for it. Now I'm totally bearish as there is simply just too much uncertainty in the world today. I'm more than happy for the rest of this year with the big gains I have already realized in 2020. I have done quite well in very scary times. Again, I'm not strutting. It's more like thanking my lucky stars!

Rarely do I read something on this forum which I disagree on nearly 100%, but MasterMonger managed that feat. Congratulations. I won't bother to respond.

But with such 'ideas' floating around in USA, I now totally understand how and why covid-19 spreads so much faster in USA than it does in Europe!

[QUOTE=MrHo;2463664]When the vaccines get developed, will you guys take the vaccines? If not, why not.

I am in bit of dilemma because I am concerned for its safety and I feel covid 19 will calm down within next one year.[/QUOTE]I am planning punting again as soon as doable. So, to me I will take COVID-19 jab as soon as it is available. I will ensure that I will not infect other people. Also, I could do punting without being worried to be infected by other people.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2464172]COVID-19 has most certainly both exceeded 1 and 2 million deaths by now. Easy calculations will land you at those numbers. And that is a low estimate. As many as 4-5 million might have already died.

Take Africa for example, the health system there is not functional, but among the 0.01 % that gets tested, there are still tens of thousands, or hundred thousand infected.

India has a semi functional health system. Maybe they catch 3-4% of everyone. Certainly less than 5%.

We can also safely say China is lying about the numbers there. Just taking death urns at the morgues, and then multiplying it up. The Hong Kong scientist had calculated 1.3 million in Hubei province alot had gotten the virus. And comparing that to the Wuhan morgue urns at the start of the pandemic, we can safely say about 50 000 has died in Wuhan, and 60-100 000 in all of Hubei. And that is just one vjinese province. Although most likely the worst hit by far..[/QUOTE]I agree death counts are understated and can believe 1 to 2 mil. Not sure if 4 mil is believable. That implies 7 additional deaths for every reported death. There have been anecdotal reports of overflowing funeral houses etc here and there in Italy, in NYC, Brazil most certainly, Russia a little bit and of late in Mumbai and Delhi to some extent. Only in Brazil, Ecuador and LatAm one got the suspicion that death counts are perhaps severely understated and even there, not sure it was by 8 x.

But I am fully in agreement that infection counts are hugely understated in many developing countries that you included in your comment.

I think the demographic in these countries tends to be young and perhaps there may be other immunity benefits at work that we don't understand yet. Either way, I think infections are probably understated by orders of magnitude in many countries and death count by some amount.

[QUOTE=Mursenary;2464337]Secondly, even if death is not the end result, prolonged-debilitating illness in an otherwise healthy young adult is often the case with covid19. The economic cost of millions of otherwise healthy, young adults being out of the workforce due to a 2-3 week illness will in itself be rather costly.[/QUOTE]That is not true sir, COVID-19 affecting young or healthy people is an anomaly and it could just be they were not as healthy as they thought. Also, any virus or disease that attacks ACE2 receptors can cause organ damage to anyone with weak or compromised immune systems or a weak or damaged organ that is not a special feature of COVID-19. Go do some research and you will learn that is true.

Of course I understand that according to their logic that if COVID-19 weakened the immune system to a point that it could not handle the constant invasion of billions of germs we face every second of our lives and they contracted pneumonia as a result, then COVID-19 is still considered the root cause or a multiple cause of death.

Let me explain why that is bad! You could cut your finger and the infection it causes could easily lower your immune system to a point where pneumonia could take hold, although trauma should be reported the root cause in this sometimes it is still reported as pneumonia. Usually as stated in any document written about COVID-19 you need to already have a weak immune system or an underlying problem before anything else can happen because in most cases your immune system is easily able to wipe out COVID-19. Breathing with a Paper cloth mask on greatly increases your chance of developing pneumonia and brain deficiencies because you are rebreathing CO2 and not getting enough clean oxygen to kill the germs in your lungs or feed your brain fresh oxygen so it can produce ozone in the brain to heal itself. Oxygen is the most miraculous element on the planet and oxygen combined with the right green leafy vegetables and 120 minutes of exercise a week especially jumping on a trampoline for 15 minutes a day can make your immune system super human and the trampoline will activate your lymphatic system. For people who do this everyday, even the once dreaded HIV is not really a problem unless you put too much bad stuff in your body like Sugar, Drugs, Alcohol, and tobacco.

Now if you are reporting pneumonia and influenza deaths as COVID-19 deaths and we look at the numbers last year and 60,000 died from influenza and 40,000 died from pneumonia and this year pneumonia and influenza deaths are way down then how can we determine the actual threat caused by COVID-19. Now if you read some of the other posts I have posted you would know that almost 80% of the deaths reported in New York State in the last 120 days have been COVID-19 related. Also the Doctors are now being allowed to fill out the death certificates completely and sign them themselves. We know hospitals get paid for each reported case, each respirator case, and each death. New York has 32,000 COVID-19 deaths which is equal to 40 of the other 49 states combined. New York only has 6% of the US population but they have 24% of the deaths and the other 52% of total deaths is among only 9 states The final 24% is spread among 40 states. Many states went out of lockdown months ago.

So, unless you can find something that factually says Covid-19 "will" "not can or could" cause long term organ damage then there is no threat from COVID-19 to people with strong immune systems. If you are old are weak you can take precautions but I recommend a spit guard or an actually non-cloth mask that allows you to breath fresh oxygen.

Please do research! We need to draw a line in the sand and make our governments aware this will not be tolerated. If not, what is coming in the future will be much worse. The minute we accept quarantining and marshal law as the norm we have already become slaves. Now, if in the future a virus comes along and kills more than 1% of the world population or 78,000,000 people then we can talk about possible quarantines as long as every victim's name is made public for verification. 132,000 people supposedly dead in America but I don't know one and I don't know anybody who knows one.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2464371]Rarely do I read something on this forum which I disagree on nearly 100%, but MasterMonger managed that feat. Congratulations. I won't bother to respond.

But with such 'ideas' floating around in USA, I now totally understand how and why covid-19 spreads so much faster in USA than it does in Europe![/QUOTE]That is so funny, you don't agree with facts. You can look up those facts, most of them came straight from the CDC website. It is funny how they tell you one thing in the title and then tell you whole truth when you read the whole story. Math is your friend, the virus is only spreading in the states the governor's want it to spread in, considering 76% of all the deaths are only in 10 states. Instead of believing what you think you know spend some time to verify it. If any one can prove my facts wrong, I would be delighted!

Have a wonderful day!

[QUOTE=TheCane;2464331]
I decided in early 2019 that I wanted to take 2020 off. After a decade and a half of steady mongering, I felt like I needed to take a break. So, I guess I could not have chosen a better year to do that. It's just that if you can have it but decide you don't want it, that's one thing. But when all of a sudden you can't have it even if you wanted it, well then psychologically that's another thing LOL!

.[/QUOTE]I'm on the same boat, last trip 5 days at Sharks was on late February 2020 , I made my mind that next visit will be October / November 2020.

But all of sudden i feel now that I want to go As soon as possible, and I guess its the idea of ((deciding not to go VS can't go even if you want)) is the major motive for my feelings.

Hope this pandemic will END soon, with a vaccine hopefully.

[QUOTE=Adindas;2464374]I am planning punting again as soon as doable. So, to me I will take COVID-19 jab as soon as it is available. I will ensure that I will not infect other people. Also, I could do punting without being worried to be infected by other people.[/QUOTE]I went to Globe in Jan and Feb this year, so I may wait until next year when corona is more calm? I have done it this year, so why for me to risk my lung etc.

I think it is more travelling that is dangerous than actual mongering, train, airplane, airport, hotel restaurants, restaurants etc.

The truth is, we all have to live with covid 19 because we cannot stop economy anymore or people will die more with other causes.

[QUOTE=RockyV;2464338]That's because Covid-19 causes pneumonia in serious cases. This is a serious disease and you should not underestimate it. Unless you want to be this guy: [URL]https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-denier-die-from-covid/[/URL].[/QUOTE]Yes covid attack lungs for most. Only few died from kind of organism infection from reaction to virus.