Kansai: Kobe-Osaka-Nara-Kyoto

Have you ever had a discussion with these ladies about the subject of men asking for FS? Almost every girl will tell you that customers REGULARLY ask for FS. I know you're all about obeying everything, keeping your head down, and knowing that not causing trouble will get you far. To an extent, it's true. I make sure to do nothing but show respect to employees and the girls. I'm never pushy, and overall everything works great for me. As foreigners we have to make sure we don't hurt our image as a whole in hopes of continuing to get service from this industry.

However, whether you like it or not, asking for FS is not overstepping any boundaries. Now, simply sticking your meatstick inside the girl, I highly advocate AGAINST that. You should always be sure it's ok with the girl before you proceed. My rule is to ask, one or twice, and if I get a no, then I stop. The worst that will happen is the girl says no and continues with what she was doing. No girl will immediately stop what they're doing and make you leave because you asked. Most won't even care you asked, there are many girls I've met who have even given me their contact details after they refused FS. Being pushy and demanding FS is what will get us in trouble though. All shops have a no FS policy, but most will turn a blind eye towards this, as long as you're not demanding FS. I can't tell you how many well established healths and deli healths I've been to that told me no less than 5 times that FS was illegal, however soon after meeting the girl I was offered FS.

It's not just the random rule breaking macho foreigners who doesn't understand the social norms that break this particular rule too. Many Japanese men will do it too. Ask the girls, the more popular girls will tell you most every man will ask for it, they'll usually follow up that they'll only do it for their special customers though. Regardless of how many special customers the girl has, the point is that FS at this point is generally left up to the girl. Hell, whether or not the girl will service you is her choice too.

Getting back on track, I don't know who your friends are Homer, but the acquaintances I know who frequent fuuzoku shops were the ones who suggested I ask girls from non-fs places for FS. I'm sure there are many Japanese customers who, like you, follow the rules no matter where they go, but there are many Japanese customers who ask for FS. Yes, we're not Japanese, we're foreigners, but we're also customers.

[QUOTE=Homer69]I believe most of the foreigners here with bad attitudes either don't understand the social norms or are, as you say, reverting back to the norms in their home country.

I don't think I've ever asked a lady for FS until she started sending smoke signals to that effect. It's actually never crossed my mind to ask. I don't even like asking them if I can put my finger in unless I know it's on the menu. I wouldn't do it because I know how much Japanese people find saying no to be distasteful. I think many foreigners don't understand this concept. I've really wanted FS from some ladies but unless you're in the old days of NK, FS at a legitimate place is definitely bad for the lady, bad for the shop and bad for you because it is technically illegal for licensed shops.

Being a macho man is not really the way Japanese men operate. If you come in acting macho it's just not worth the trouble to keep you in line. I've heard this from tencho. Often, they look at your appearance, body language, grooming and Japanese skills (if you can speak in polite Japanese or not) and make a quick call right at the door. I've had much better luck when I wear a suit as opposed to casual clothes.

I agree about the Vegas idea. They should have a book, I think it's called the Griffin Book or something like that in Vegas.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree with ZCorps here. I will ask for FS every time but one no is enough. I've only been turned down twice in the few healths I visited well over 20-30 times now.

The best reply I've had was "well you don't get FS from the other girls, right? ", you can't answer that. I was utterly owned.

I guess you don't understand what I'm trying to say. There are ways to ask for it and there are ways to ask for it. The way I'm talking about asking for it is directly which results in both people losing face when it's turned down. If you speak Japanese and have been here for awhile you know very well that you can ask for it without really asking for it. There are very subtle ways to do this through hint and innuendo. The problem I have is someone with very limited Japanese skills is going to read something here, learn the term "honban" and then ask directly. Did you ever stop to think how uncomfortable this would make a lady who has no intention of ever saying yes? She has no way to communicate with this guy to save face for him because he can't understand what she's saying. So, she just says, "NO" which is not the optimal way things are done in Japanese.

If you say you've had conversations with Japanese ladies about this then you must certainly know it's not OK to come out and say, "Is it OK if we screw?" which would be the equivalent of asking for honban directly. Even in English, you probably wouldn't ask this way if you were in an English-speaking country, but that's what it is if you only know "honban" and nothing else. You would ask if she has anything extra to offer or what sort things can she offer, etc. You give her a chance to say nothing else to offer. You might even ask her again, "honto desu ka?" in an innocent way so she can affirm her "NO" without losing face. But most foreigners with limited Japanese do not know how to dance around the edges and use metaphor and suggestion.

So, you misunderstood me. I am only talking about direct and pushy encounters. It's very appropriate to ask indirectly but I personally feel that asking so directly is improper.

[QUOTE=Zcorps]Have you ever had a discussion with these ladies about the subject of men asking for FS? Almost every girl will tell you that customers REGULARLY ask for FS. I know you're all about obeying everything, keeping your head down, and knowing that not causing trouble will get you far. To an extent, it's true. I make sure to do nothing but show respect to employees and the girls. I'm never pushy, and overall everything works great for me. As foreigners we have to make sure we don't hurt our image as a whole in hopes of continuing to get service from this industry.

However, whether you like it or not, asking for FS is not overstepping any boundaries. Now, simply sticking your meatstick inside the girl, I highly advocate AGAINST that. You should always be sure it's ok with the girl before you proceed. My rule is to ask, one or twice, and if I get a no, then I stop. The worst that will happen is the girl says no and continues with what she was doing. No girl will immediately stop what they're doing and make you leave because you asked. Most won't even care you asked, there are many girls I've met who have even given me their contact details after they refused FS. Being pushy and demanding FS is what will get us in trouble though. All shops have a no FS policy, but most will turn a blind eye towards this, as long as you're not demanding FS. I can't tell you how many well established healths and deli healths I've been to that told me no less than 5 times that FS was illegal, however soon after meeting the girl I was offered FS.

It's not just the random rule breaking macho foreigners who doesn't understand the social norms that break this particular rule too. Many Japanese men will do it too. Ask the girls, the more popular girls will tell you most every man will ask for it, they'll usually follow up that they'll only do it for their special customers though. Regardless of how many special customers the girl has, the point is that FS at this point is generally left up to the girl. Hell, whether or not the girl will service you is her choice too.

Getting back on track, I don't know who your friends are Homer, but the acquaintances I know who frequent fuuzoku shops were the ones who suggested I ask girls from non-fs places for FS. I'm sure there are many Japanese customers who, like you, follow the rules no matter where they go, but there are many Japanese customers who ask for FS. Yes, we're not Japanese, we're foreigners, but we're also customers.[/QUOTE]

See my previous response. You guys missed my point. You are obviously conversational in Japanese and can respond and understand her responses. My target is a foreigner who goes in thinking he can just ask straight up with no real knowledge of the language or nuance of saving face. Those types are trouble, especially if they go in with an attitude. You have to remember that there are a ton of foreigners reading stuff here and think they can get by learning a few words or phrases while forcing the issue. It doesn't work that way. I'm not even sure if there is a word in Japanese for sexual intercourse. Is there? Maybe seikoi or something like that. Anyway, words like sexual intercourse and vagina are usually referred to via some nickname or nuance (asoko is my favorite). I just can't imagine a foreigner with little or no Japanese skills being able to do this without losing face.

I can imagine the conversation of the lady and the tencho after a session with a foreigner. Tencho asks curiously, "do desu ka?" Lady proceeds to tell him that the guy couldn't speak Japanese and was asking for sex. It is her prerogative to say this or keep quiet about it. The only thing the tencho is thinking is, "Oh brother, they are too much trouble, aren't they?"

Can you not see the plausibility of this? I've had many conversations with ladies and tencho. I know they don't like foreigners who are pushy and don't understand the rules. They have come out and told me as much. The ladies don't like to be put into situations where they have to say NO and lose face, too. Put yourself in their place.

Like I said, if you're conversational, you can pick up on the mood and try to decipher her feelings before you start breaching the line.

If you don't think that this is one of the principal reasons that we are cut off from many shops then I think you are delusional. I'll say it again. In general, foreigners are bad for business. If foreigners behaved knowing these things would not be so grim as they are now.

[QUOTE=Naniwan]I have to agree with ZCorps here. I will ask for FS every time but one no is enough. I've only been turned down twice in the few healths I visited well over 20-30 times now.

The best reply I've had was "well you don't get FS from the other girls, right? ", you can't answer that. I was utterly owned.[/QUOTE]

No, I totally get it, and I have to say I was surpised to see a guy in my regular Health getting serviced that spoke very little (if non at all) Japanese. How often are guys like that even accepted? I doubt it's common? I get it though, I'd hate to see myself suddenly getting rejected from my regular haunts.

In fact, I spoke to the girl I see often as we were walking to the hotel if it was really OK. The girl was asked before hand if she didn't mind accepting a foreigner that spoke very little Japanese. Apparently she was fine with it, so it's not like they're thrown in the deep end. Worryingly the guy did say to "No sex, right? " to me in the waiting room.

A word for sex and vagina etc? I take a similar (Japanese? ) approach. Yaru, asoko, etc. When I do ask for honban I ask using negative forms and even Osaka-ben to lighten it up, "yatte akan na? ", etc. Tbh though, I see the same girl now anyway but still I always ask if it's OK.

By the same token, the girls generally have as much issue with pushy Japanese customers (who are generally more pushy in my experience), than foreigners; They're saying NO to Japanese customers as much as foreign customers. Of course, again, I see your point. It only takes 1 incident with a foreign customer to bring it all down but the J customers are always going to be accepted.

I guess it's based on reputation. Foreigners have to build a certain amount of trust with the shops they frequent. I'm pretty sure that even if a bad incident occured where I go, they may not stop me personally from going any more. I still don't have the balls to try and visit shops that state clearly on their site that foreigners aren't accepted but someday. Maybe.

[QUOTE=Homer69]See my previous response. You guys missed my point. You are obviously conversational in Japanese and can respond and understand her responses. My target is a foreigner who goes in thinking he can just ask straight up with no real knowledge of the language or nuance of saving face. Those types are trouble, especially if they go in with an attitude. You have to remember that there are a ton of foreigners reading stuff here and think they can get by learning a few words or phrases while forcing the issue. It doesn't work that way. I'm not even sure if there is a word in Japanese for sexual intercourse. Is there? Maybe seikoi or something like that. Anyway, words like sexual intercourse and vagina are usually referred to via some nickname or nuance (asoko is my favorite). I just can't imagine a foreigner with little or no Japanese skills being able to do this without losing face.

I can imagine the conversation of the lady and the tencho after a session with a foreigner. Tencho asks curiously, "do desu ka? " Lady proceeds to tell him that the guy couldn't speak Japanese and was asking for sex. It is her prerogative to say this or keep quiet about it. The only thing the tencho is thinking is, "Oh brother, they are too much trouble, aren't they? "

Can you not see the plausibility of this? I've had many conversations with ladies and tencho. I know they don't like foreigners who are pushy and don't understand the rules. They have come out and told me as much. The ladies don't like to be put into situations where they have to say NO and lose face, too. Put yourself in their place.

Like I said, if you're conversational, you can pick up on the mood and try to decipher her feelings before you start breaching the line.

If you don't think that this is one of the principal reasons that we are cut off from many shops then I think you are delusional. I'll say it again. In general, foreigners are bad for business. If foreigners behaved knowing these things would not be so grim as they are now.[/QUOTE]

Went to a Sekushii Kyaba once (where the girls come around and sit in your lap in rotation, you feel them up, suck their titties, etc. ) when I was in the waiting area just before having a tea or whatever some Japanese guys were also waiting (in a group.)

They were obviously pumped up and having a good time. They talked to me a bit and I remember saying (I was a little drunk) "Honban dame desho" to let them know I wasn't going to go in and act like an idiot.

They protested and said "Daijyobu daijyoubu. Dekiru zo" and nodding. This meant of course you could have FS with the girls there. And this wasn't even a HJ/BJ place, much less a FS place. I asked them again "Dekiru no?" and they kept sayind "dekiru dekiru" (Can you? Yes, yes.)

Dunno if they were just winding me up or what. I didn't try, but who knows. I have my doubts. Maybe they were first timers?

I think you got my point. It does only take one or a very few incidents by foreigners to spoil it for the rest of us. Japanese customers can do whatever they want. They will never get turned down for being Japanese. This should be very obvious to anyone but I guess it's not.

If you're a foreigner, be aware that there is a double standard and your dumb ass behavior can ruin it for everyone else.

[QUOTE=Naniwan]
<snip>
By the same token, the girls generally have as much issue with pushy Japanese customers (who are generally more pushy in my experience), than foreigners; They're saying NO to Japanese customers as much as foreign customers. Of course, again, I see your point. It only takes 1 incident with a foreign customer to bring it all down but the J customers are always going to be accepted.

I guess it's based on reputation. Foreigners have to build a certain amount of trust with the shops they frequent. I'm pretty sure that even if a bad incident occured where I go, they may not stop me personally from going any more. I still don't have the balls to try and visit shops that state clearly on their site that foreigners aren't accepted but someday. Maybe.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Ozboy]Went to a Sekushii Kyaba once (where the girls come around and sit in your lap in rotation, you feel th I asked them again "Dekiru no?" and they kept sayind "dekiru dekiru" (Can you? Yes, yes.)

Dunno if they were just winding me up or what. I didn't try, but who knows. I have my doubts. Maybe they were first timers?[/QUOTE]

Hard to really know. But being the Pink industry, it would be pretty likely a girl might allow take-out after hours. Even during hours, depending on if the ten-cho is looking to make a little and take a chance.

On my birthday my friends once took me to one of those places before. I don't remember the name of this place or the prices exactly, but here's how the system worked at that specific place.

THe girls would come around, and you could get a lap dance from them. If you liked them, you could go in the back with them and get a handy. It was a 10 minutes session. You could get some oral if the girl liked you enough, but basically the girls were only supposed to give you a HJ. Anything other than a HJ was between you and her.

At the end of the night the tencho asked if I wanted mochi-kaeri, literally take-out (He actually used that phrase). He never said I would get FS, but he did imply it. I paid him a fee, met the girl, headed to a hotel and did get FS. I don't remember how much time I had (or if there was in fact a time limit) because I was supposed to meet my friends soon after that.

So, to answer your question, there are a few of those places where you can get FS. A quick note, the girl told me that since I had stayed until closing that next time I should ask her directly to go home afterwards instead of the tencho. She'd charge me a lower rate, and she would make more money. I'm sure that's frowned upon by the establishment though.

Anyways, I can't remember the price, but I remember thinking that it would have been cheaper to call a nice Deli health. If I wanted FS, I'd go somewhere else, however if I ever happen to be in one of those places, I think it's pretty fun since you get to try out the girl, then get some FS from her if you like her.

Oh, and a note. You shouldn't go to these places and demand FS, that will only get us foreigners in trouble. Not that I'm accusing you of it.

[QUOTE=Ozboy]Went to a Sekushii Kyaba once (where the girls come around and sit in your lap in rotation, you feel them up, suck their titties, etc. ) when I was in the waiting area just before having a tea or whatever some Japanese guys were also waiting (in a group.)

They were obviously pumped up and having a good time. They talked to me a bit and I remember saying (I was a little drunk) "Honban dame desho" to let them know I wasn't going to go in and act like an idiot.

They protested and said "Daijyobu daijyoubu. Dekiru zo" and nodding. This meant of course you could have FS with the girls there. And this wasn't even a HJ/BJ place, much less a FS place. I asked them again "Dekiru no?" and they kept sayind "dekiru dekiru" (Can you? Yes, yes.)

Dunno if they were just winding me up or what. I didn't try, but who knows. I have my doubts. Maybe they were first timers?[/QUOTE]

I'll concede to the fact that we should be more careful in how we word our posts so that other foreigners don't go into these places and demand FS or something.

However, places where non-Japanese speaking foreigners are allowed in, usually aren't the kind of places where asking for FS will make a difference into what type of service you get. Those places are usually BJ only, or full FS anyways. I can only think of a few places where it would matter whether or not you asked though.

I do see your point though, if every foreigner went around using a few japanese phrases to ask for FS, we'd be in trouble. I'll start wording my posts so as to deter people from being pushy when possible (outside of places where Japanese is needed of course).

[QUOTE=Homer69]See my previous response. You guys missed my point. You are obviously conversational in Japanese and can respond and understand her responses. My target is a foreigner who goes in thinking he can just ask straight up with no real knowledge of the language or nuance of saving face. Those types are trouble, especially if they go in with an attitude. You have to remember that there are a ton of foreigners reading stuff here and think they can get by learning a few words or phrases while forcing the issue. It doesn't work that way. I'm not even sure if there is a word in Japanese for sexual intercourse. Is there? Maybe seikoi or something like that. Anyway, words like sexual intercourse and vagina are usually referred to via some nickname or nuance (asoko is my favorite). I just can't imagine a foreigner with little or no Japanese skills being able to do this without losing face.

I can imagine the conversation of the lady and the tencho after a session with a foreigner. Tencho asks curiously, "do desu ka?" Lady proceeds to tell him that the guy couldn't speak Japanese and was asking for sex. It is her prerogative to say this or keep quiet about it. The only thing the tencho is thinking is, "Oh brother, they are too much trouble, aren't they?"

Can you not see the plausibility of this? I've had many conversations with ladies and tencho. I know they don't like foreigners who are pushy and don't understand the rules. They have come out and told me as much. The ladies don't like to be put into situations where they have to say NO and lose face, too. Put yourself in their place.

Like I said, if you're conversational, you can pick up on the mood and try to decipher her feelings before you start breaching the line.

If you don't think that this is one of the principal reasons that we are cut off from many shops then I think you are delusional. I'll say it again. In general, foreigners are bad for business. If foreigners behaved knowing these things would not be so grim as they are now.[/QUOTE]

No problem. I figured this out in Tokyo. Long ago I disclosed two healths (long ago closed) in the Tokyo forum that were soon thereafter off-limits. I talked to each tencho in depth and both of them explained about a big influx of foreigners showing up in groups and/or drunk expecting FS and it caused more hassle than it was worth. It was decided to go back to the Japanese Only policy. The ladies didn't like it and made this very clear afterward.

If you are conversational then it should not be a problem because you know how to ask using indirect expression but just coming out and asking to screw, especially with an attitude puts the lady in a difficult spot. She is now nervous and cannot do her job correctly, too.

I guess you are talking about Chinese esute where non-Japanese-speaking foreigners can get FS. They are all over the place and easy to find if you do your homework. Unfortunately, they don't stay open very long. I could care less about those places. I care about places that have real Japanese ladies working there. Those places are golden when you find them.

[QUOTE=Zcorps]I'll concede to the fact that we should be more careful in how we word our posts so that other foreigners don't go into these places and demand FS or something.

However, places where non-Japanese speaking foreigners are allowed in, usually aren't the kind of places where asking for FS will make a difference into what type of service you get. Those places are usually BJ only, or full FS anyways. I can only think of a few places where it would matter whether or not you asked though.

I do see your point though, if every foreigner went around using a few japanese phrases to ask for FS, we'd be in trouble. I'll start wording my posts so as to deter people from being pushy when possible (outside of places where Japanese is needed of course).[/QUOTE]

Yeah mate I wouldn't ever assume anything but touching above the waist was on at those places. The shills who take you down there essentially tell you that's the go.

I got there by walking up to one of those orange fuzoku town booths and asking the guy where a place was that would allow gaijin. Told him wasnt looking for FS just touching.

He seemed willing to run through the pages to find whatever I was out for. Ended up walking me down the arcade and down to some underground place I would never have found.

Once in, you got served tea while you waited around a big table, which is where I met the Japanese punters, who went in before me.

Big booths all around, 1 beer included, 7,000 for 40 minutes or so. Dark inside like a cave with blacklights. The girls come around in white towels wearing only panties underneath. "And now here comes your next girl..." kinda thing over the loudspeaker. Bloody obnoxious but I was well into my cups.

Thing is the Japanese guys were young salarymen all in groups. But theyd always chat up the chicks for a little while first. I just asked her to sit in my lap and took the towel off. You could touch or suck or whatever as long as it was above the waist. No kissing IIRC. The girls were really chatty, on and on and on about anything.

Rotation after a few minutes. You had to pay a little extra to keep the girl with you if you liked her. Otherwise a new girl would come. Some annoying wait time in between. Good recipe for blue balls.

Anyway I did end up taking one girl to a hotel. It was past three when she got off work and we walked a few blocks. She was skinny, but great titties and really enjoyed herself. Said she didn't think a Japanese guy could do it like that afterwards. I'm not bragging--I'm nothing special, maybe she just had had some below par experiences.

[QUOTE=Zcorps]On my birthday my friends once took me to one of those places before. I don't remember the name of this place or the prices exactly, but here's how the system worked at that specific place.

THe girls would come around, and you could get a lap dance from them. If you liked them, you could go in the back with them and get a handy. It was a 10 minutes session. You could get some oral if the girl liked you enough, but basically the girls were only supposed to give you a HJ. Anything other than a HJ was between you and her.

At the end of the night the tencho asked if I wanted mochi-kaeri, literally take-out (He actually used that phrase). He never said I would get FS, but he did imply it. I paid him a fee, met the girl, headed to a hotel and did get FS. I don't remember how much time I had (or if there was in fact a time limit) because I was supposed to meet my friends soon after that.

So, to answer your question, there are a few of those places where you can get FS. A quick note, the girl told me that since I had stayed until closing that next time I should ask her directly to go home afterwards instead of the tencho. She'd charge me a lower rate, and she would make more money. I'm sure that's frowned upon by the establishment though.

Anyways, I can't remember the price, but I remember thinking that it would have been cheaper to call a nice Deli health. If I wanted FS, I'd go somewhere else, however if I ever happen to be in one of those places, I think it's pretty fun since you get to try out the girl, then get some FS from her if you like her.

Oh, and a note. You shouldn't go to these places and demand FS, that will only get us foreigners in trouble. Not that I'm accusing you of it.[/QUOTE]

Have a pretty busy schedule. Not a lot of time to waste time looking around. Want to find some good local Japanese girls for a massage and BJ, maybe mutual masturbation. Does anyone have any recommendations? Maybe we can meet-up on one of those evenings and go some place together?

Hi,

This forum has a wealth of information that I never knew existed. It's great!

I want to try delivery health but not sure how to do it using a love hotel. To be quite honest, I've never been to a love hotel. Would I have to go to the hotel alone first and get a room and then call the company? How will the girl Know how to get in? Or can I give them the location, wait outside of the hotel and then go in together?

I'd like to give deliheru a shot, just to see what it's like.

I had the same problem when I first started doing deliheru.

First and foremost, you'll need to speak Japanese due to the complexity of how this works. A few simple phrases won't cut it. However, you don't need to be native level, basic conversation should be fine.

Now you have a few options. The first and most normal option is to check in by yourself. You can either call in ahead and make an appointment, they'll usually ask what hotel you have in mind and what time. Then you head in and call them from the room and tell them your room number (either by cell phone or from the hotel's phone). A lot of hotels in Osaka seem to intentionally or unintentionally block cell phone signal, so keep that in mind. You can usually tell in the lobby whether or not your phone will work.

When the girl arrives she'll normally stop at the front desk then head up to your room, that way when she rings the doorbell it will automatically open. However, a lot of the time the girl won't stop at the front, so you have to dial the front and ask them to open the door when she arrives. You usually dial 9 from the room phone for the front.

You can also call the deliheru directly from the room instead of making an appointment. They'll send the girl over, and likewise you might need to dial the front to let the girl in. If you do this, bring a few extra deliheru numbers just in case.

Another option is meeting the girl outside. This isn't exactly the normal flow of things, but many deliheru will gladly offer to do this. Just ask if you can do machiawase. Depending on the place, the girl will either meet you outside the hotel and you go in together, OR you meet at a designated spot, get picked up by a driver, and they take you to a hotel with the girl. I personally do machiawase towards the evening because sometimes love hotels think you're trying to stay the whole night then charge you an all night fee.

And remember, always be courteous and never be pushy.

[QUOTE=Takoya]Hi,

This forum has a wealth of information that I never knew existed. It's great!

I want to try delivery health but not sure how to do it using a love hotel. To be quite honest, I've never been to a love hotel. Would I have to go to the hotel alone first and get a room and then call the company? How will the girl Know how to get in? Or can I give them the location, wait outside of the hotel and then go in together?

I'd like to give deliheru a shot, just to see what it's like.[/QUOTE]