Angeles City

These raids are likely a show, in this case put on for the benefit of the US to "prove" that the country is serious about combatting [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url]. And it worked. The US has just removed the Philippines from the "tier 3" list of countries so now it's eligible for more funding. Most, if not all public actions here initiated by the national and local governments are nothing more than illusions, soap operas if you like put on to accomplish a specific purpose. This is a place with no substance, and no commitment to anything other than the next scam.

GE

[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1171970]. This is a place with no substance, and no commitment to anything other than the next scam.

GE[/QUOTE]The biggest scam is that this is a democracy. The 7 families own the Philippines and that is it. That is why they have fallen behind so much in the last 50 years. They should have been the boom economy after WWII, rather than the sick man. The church likes it a lot because it send sthe illegitimate children and poor single mothers looking for salvation and the bars of Angeles.

This happened last Monday.

The United States on Monday removed the Philippines and Singapore from a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] watch list that had drawn concerns from the close allies.

The US State Department's annual Trafficking in Persons Report has become increasingly sensitive for Southeast Asian governments, which face a cutoff of US assistance if they are found to be unresponsive in fighting trafficking.

The latest report elevated the Philippines, Singapore and Laos off the watch list to the so-called Tier 2, which means that the countries do not fully meet standards on [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] but are making efforts to do so.

President Benigno Aquino III was delighted about the upgrade.

'The President welcomes this upgrade. And is very very appreciative of the upgrade made by the State Department, ' Mr. Aquino's spokesperson Edwin Lacierda said.

Sea change.

Lacierda quoted US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as telling CNN that 'until the new administration of President Aquino, we didn't really have the level of commitment we were seeking. We do now and we see a sea change of difference. '

'In response, the Aquino administration expresses its appreciation at these citations and emphasizes our continuing campaign against [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url], ' Lacierda said, in reaction to Clinton's statement.

Lacierda said the government aimed at moving 'toward the abolition of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url]. '

In April, Mr. Aquino took the unusual step of saying that his country was off the watch list, leading US officials to clarify that no decision had yet been made.

I once had a boss, older and much wiser than I, who told me that there are countries doomed to remain "beggar nations" forever, despite external assistance in development. This is surely one of those countries, operated by and for the benefit of the oligarchy that controls it, and by their political allies who are free to steal whatever they can get their greedy hands on. Though this discussion is probably inappropriate to this thread, the bottomless pit of greed here always astounds me and has done so since I've lived here. The greed of the kleptocrats to run the place is truly insatiable. I'm not a "corruption virgin," having worked in Indonesia, Thailand and in several African countries, but this place is the gold standard. I've never seen anything like it.

[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1171851]Like you, I would never put anyone down for his preferences, but you're right about it's all being different for guys who live here in Asia. Like you, I've been around her for most of the last 20 years, and when not here, then in Africa. Like most guys, I imagine, when I first came out here-to Indonesia and Thailand primarily-I was like a kid in a candy store. I just couldn't wait to grab as many as possible, as often as possible, and invariably as young (within legal limits) as possible. But with increasing age, and with a more "been there, done that" attitude, your perspective changes and it becomes important, most of the time to be with someone who is fun to be around-to whom you can talk, laugh and do something other than screw. I'm sure it's different when you're consigned for 50 weeks a year to the cold, cold Western world and only have a couple of weeks into which you have to cram a year's worth of fun.

GE[/QUOTE]Thanks, well stated. I live in Hong Kong and have been to all the spots in Asia. Just like you. 20 years ago, I was like a kid in a candy store and I would only bang young (over 18) women. The more the better. When I first came to Asia, Thailand was my stop, I planned to stay for a 2 week vacation. I ended up staying for 9 months.

Now that I have had women of all types (China girls, Jap girls, Thai girls, etc.) and I am in my early 50s , I need something more than just P4P. After having so many different Asian women, I really like the fact that the Filipinas speak good English and they really like and understand Western men. And age is not a factor for them. They are fun to be with, they like to laugh and joke with you. And as far as sex, (just my POV) , they offer the best sincere sex when you are in a relationship with them. For now, they are my choice for having a real GFE with no money exchanged. Sure, I take them out on a date, but that is dirt cheap compared to dating in HK or any western country. Also, I actually like going on the date with them and I enjoy the prize at the end of the evening between her legs.

The great thing about Asia, especially the Philippines, my POV, if offers something for every guy, no matter what he likes. Plus, living there is a lot cheaper than HK or any western country. When I retire, I be heading over to Makati or maybe AC.

[QUOTE=Luvpuss;1171959]Dude. You are the one that is nuts. Causing a big commotion over 6 bucks. Stupid.[/QUOTE]It is not over six bucks. I am a regular and once you let a bar rip you off, you are immediately pegged as a mug and will lose all respect from the staff and the girls and you are sure to be ripped off every time you go into the bar.

[QUOTE=Fishfinger; 1171895]Thanks for the info.

Do you know if there is any truth in the reports that three customers (two Americans and a Japanese) are facing charges?[/QUOTE]It is true three or four customers were taken in the raids (news accounts differ on the number, think 3 is more accurate). Again not totally sure, but heard they were taken after the Golden Nile raid, either in Blue Nile or Cambodia. One news account said one was released and the others would be charged with lesser crimes of sex. It is now known that all were released in Manila after spending the night and most of the next day in jail.

[QUOTE=ManonsanBoy;1171978]The biggest scam is that this is a democracy. The 7 families own the Philippines and that is it. That is why they have fallen behind so much in the last 50 years. They should have been the boom economy after WWII, rather than the sick man. The church likes it a lot because it send sthe illegitimate children and poor single mothers looking for salvation and the bars of Angeles.[/QUOTE]They were the boom economy after ww2 courtesy of american investment. Philippines was called the Tiger of SE Asia, top economy in SE Asia. What happened after that I can only guess.

[QUOTE=Five10; 1171982]This happened last Monday.

The United States on Monday removed the Philippines and Singapore from a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] watch list that had drawn concerns from the close allies.

The US State Department's annual Trafficking in Persons Report has become increasingly sensitive for Southeast Asian governments, which face a cutoff of US assistance if they are found to be unresponsive in fighting trafficking.

The latest report elevated the Philippines, Singapore and Laos off the watch list to the so-called Tier 2, which means that the countries do not fully meet standards on [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] but are making efforts to do so.

President Benigno Aquino III was delighted about the upgrade.

'The President welcomes this upgrade. And is very very appreciative of the upgrade made by the State Department, ' Mr. Aquino's spokesperson Edwin Lacierda said.

Sea change.

Lacierda quoted US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as telling CNN that 'until the new administration of President Aquino, we didn't really have the level of commitment we were seeking. We do now and we see a sea change of difference. '

'In response, the Aquino administration expresses its appreciation at these citations and emphasizes our continuing campaign against [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url], ' Lacierda said, in reaction to Clinton's statement.

Lacierda said the government aimed at moving 'toward the abolition of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url]. '

In April, Mr. Aquino took the unusual step of saying that his country was off the watch list, leading US officials to clarify that no decision had yet been made.[/QUOTE]If you read further, you will also find an article concerning a function hosting the USA Ambassador, who basically said while 25 cases against [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] have been brought this is no time to drink Champaign. Basically not enough is being done. Several days later the raids in Angeles. One Phillipine official even cited the USA Ambassador's comments as motivation for the raids.

In other press accounts, there is the belief the USA is discussing / considering with the Philippine government re-activation of parts of Subic Bay to the USA Navy. That these discussions provoked removal of the Philippines from the watch list (an embarrassment to the Philippine government) and is also motivating the government to placate the American government's desires.

[QUOTE=ManonsanBoy;1171978]The biggest scam is that this is a democracy. The 7 families own the Philippines and that is it. That is why they have fallen behind so much in the last 50 years. They should have been the boom economy after WWII, rather than the sick man. The church likes it a lot because it send sthe illegitimate children and poor single mothers looking for salvation and the bars of Angeles.[/QUOTE]You should see the problems of trying to get money to improve a business here. The 7 families conveniently own the banks that lend capital to business. Not only do the have the biggest spread between the interest you get a depositor and what you pay as a lender in Asia.

But they just have endless delays obstacles and impediments to actually loaning money.

Friend of mine has a small business, and agreed to put his house as collateral (value by bank, P25 mill) against a loan of P10 mill. Handed title to bank etc. And 6 months later, he's still waiting for his loan. He has signed his name on 46 different bank documents and is told it "MAY" be released in next 3 months but not guaranteed. With this kind of bullshit, the country will fall even further behind.

By contrast, walk into HSBC in HK and ask for a loan with salary as collateral, and it will be released within 72 hours. Big banks don't care, they make from the spread, government doesn't care as they are all on the take, big business don't care as then they don't face competition and the little man. Well he just gives up. My friend is thinking of selling all, and moving to Australia.

[QUOTE=Undercoverh;1172000]The great thing about Asia, especially the Philippines, my POV, if offers something for every guy, no matter what he likes. Plus, living there is a lot cheaper than HK or any western country. When I retire, I be heading over to Makati or maybe AC.[/QUOTE]Much better places than makati within Phils for retirement, but yes, I understand your sentiment. I shall also be retiring there. Just have to find a way to send wife on endless vacations so I can do the same dating LOL.

[quote=loveasian*****s; 1171855]i was in blue nile last night. i had just paid for a ladies drink when the waitress says i have to pay for my drink right now, the lady has to leave, but she will right back when she puts on her clothes. so i pay, but the girl does not come back. then everyone leaves, and then the police rush in. was i pissed. they knew that a raid was coming, but they were more concerned with ripping me off for 250 pesos. so i lost my cool, which i am very carefull not to do in angeles as it is never a good idea, but i couldn't help it. i start telling the police that i was just ripped of for 250 pesos and i want it back. if blue nile feels it is a good idea to rip of customers right before a raid, maybe the customer can cause a problem for blue nile. obviously, not a wise strategy, but like i said, i was pissed. the cops all surround me wanting to know what happened, but at that point, someone gives me my 250 pesos, and i am happy so i just leave. not sure what type of manager trains the waitresses to rip off customers right before the cops show up. that is one manager that should certainly be locked up. in an insane asylum.

anyway, regarding the recent raids. i do not belive their any foreigners that were not suspected of being managers of the bars were arrested. in the many years of reading about angles raids, they have never bothered customers, and none of the other sites, including harry the horse, indicated that customers were bothered in these raid either (but if i am wrong, please post a link). angeles patrons have sometimes been setup under different circumstances, but when the police show up at a bar, they are never interested in the customers.

also, while it is well known that this all about corrupt police getting money from the bars, they don't pick these bars at random. if there was one bar that hired that **** girls, then it would definately be golden nile. it was like what happened about 6 months ago at pony tails. they closed down the bar for a while for staging bold (nude) shows. and at the time, this was the only bar in angeles that thought they could get away with topless girls and whipped cream, but the reality is, cops will tollerate prostitution, but not naked shows. it makes no sense, but everyone know this, so of course the bar was raided.

the bottom line is that if you hire **** girls or stage bold shows, then crooked cops will pick on you. the way the cops look at it, you are breaking the law and they will do you a favor by taking a bribe instead of prosecuting you and closing down the bar. lets remember, it is corruption that allows angeles city to exist. the same way a traffic cop will pull you over when you do something wrong, and a bribe will stop him from giving you a ticket. it is very rare (but does happen occasionally) that a cop will want a bribe when you have not broken some traffic rule. for every bribe that is demanded for a setup, there are about 100 that are demanded for allowing you to break the law and face no punishment. personally, i have paid many bribes in the philippines, some big, but most small. i can only think of one time when i had to pay a bribe when i had done nothing wrong, and that was 100 pesos.[/quote]not meaning to defend the hiring of **** girls, but in the last raids, have you read any account which proved **** girls were the purpose of the raid or were discovered? was their any suggestion the bars raided were doing bold shows? we should all show sympathy for you cause blue nile, in the midst of a raid might have done you out of 250 peso. how about the poor manager of sunshine bar, probably makes $20 a day, most managers have no say in hiring, or wage payments. that raid was conducted over a claim of not paying the girls on time. now converted into forced sexual slavery. the manager faces a life sentence if convicted.

harry the horse is one of the biggest supporters of richard agnew and golden nile, as he (richard) is the self proclaimed president of the bar owner's association. pony tails was doing body paint, and at that time, these shows were approved by the recently departed mayor blueboy, the mayor's office use to issue a permit to do them. what they were doing had been allowed, then without instructions to the contrary, they are raided. yes, customers were taken in the last raid, and while they may have been released within 12 hours or so, how long before in these raids they are not released? and when you are cuffed, loaded on the bus, transported to manila. not knowing if you will be released. trying to prove you are not an owner or manager (how will you do that) , are you going to wait for harry the horse to take up your cause. ha ha. i suppose it does not matter to you that your name and nationality are splashed across the international press, engaged in [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url], as has been done to the manager of sunshine bar?

camelot was raided under the guise of prostitution, yes they supposedly found **** girls, but marked money and prostituion led to the raid. the mayor's notice outside both camelot and dirty duck cited prostitution and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] as the reason for their closure, last year.

how big of a jump is it for this [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] justification to include sex tourism? as cited previously, by philippine law, prostitution is [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] and for foreigners, it is a non-bailable offense, that if convicted carries a life sentence. so when the bars are put out business, and everyone is setting up their pleasures through dia, filipino heart, etc, and money is to be made one on one with you as the victim. you can remember the days of your 100 peso traffic fine.

the truth in my opinion is that this is an attack on foreign business men, who although engaged in an immoral trade, are being victimized for less than what filipino owned bars do on a regular basis, without any police action. and your only comfort is that they just have not come for you. yet. again my opinion, but there are not many places left in this world where our hobby is so easily accomodated and at such a ridiculously low price, one should be concerned. nothing can be guaranteed forever, as we see has happened over the last ten years in our home countries, it would not take much at all to wipe the philippines off our map of desireable destinations.

Guys,

After reading through the accounts of these raids and the "motivation" behind them, I thought it all sounded very much like what happened in Korea in 2005. The US government was pressuring the Korean government to crack down on "[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url]". The Koreans have had laws against prostitution for many years. But not much was done to enforce these laws. I think this was primarily because the government officials were the biggest customers. After the Korean government gave in to the pressure from the US, the hobby almost dried up for lack of supply. Many places that welcomed foreigners in the past, started telling all foreigners that they were not welcome. There are some hot spots still around Korea today. But its much more difficult to find, and expensive. I hope the same does not happen to the Philippines.

HW

[QUOTE=Matius;1172028]The truth in my opinion is that this is an attack on foreign business men, who although engaged in an immoral trade, are being victimized for less than what Filipino owned bars do on a regular basis, without any police action. And your only comfort is that they just have not come for you. Yet. Again my opinion, but there are not many places left in this world where our hobby is so EASILY accomodated and at such a ridiculously low price, one should be concerned. Nothing can be guaranteed forever, as we see has happened over the last ten years in our home countries, it would not take much at all to wipe the Philippines off our map of desireable destinations.[/QUOTE]Matius I understand your point of view but I don't feel a huge amount of sympathy for foreign bar owners. I guess most of them understand that from the moment they open that kind of business in the Philippines, they are immersing themselves in a mire of institutionalized corruption, dishonesty and deceit, where the playing field is never ever level. I admire their resilience and determination to make money in the face of huge risks, not only to themselves personally but the money they have also invested, but I have little sympathy when things go wrong for them. I can also understand LAW's point of view, if I am drinking in a bar and it gets raided, I don't really care what happens to the bar owner/manager. Call me selfish if you want, but my ONLY concern at that time will be extricating myself from any risk of harm to my own reputation or liberty.

[QUOTE=Hairy Wonder; 1172037]Guys,

After reading through the accounts of these raids and the "motivation" behind them, I thought it all sounded very much like what happened in Korea in 2005. The US government was pressuring the Korean government to crack down on "[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url]". The Koreans have had laws against prostitution for many years. But not much was done to enforce these laws. I think this was primarily because the government officials were the biggest customers. After the Korean government gave in to the pressure from the US, the hobby almost dried up for lack of supply. Many places that welcomed foreigners in the past, started telling all foreigners that they were not welcome. There are some hot spots still around Korea today. But its much more difficult to find, and expensive. I hope the same does not happen to the Philippines.

HW[/QUOTE]I recently saw an interview on tv with hillary clinton regarding [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] and she noted how cooperative the Philippines has become in the last few years.