Kyiv

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;1210447]Wow, what a thrilling read it was! Thanks! I wish I knew how to nominate this to the Reports of Distinction.[/QUOTE]Nominate for the RoD? Just go to the thread and click ad report. Then ad the report, or a link to it.

[QUOTE=Sorbonne; 1210447]Wow, what a thrilling read it was! Thanks! I wish I knew how to nominate this to the Reports of Distinction.

When you say you go to provinces, which towns are you talking about? And what business do you say you have in those little towns?

Actually, I'm not sure if I have expertise to go into the Kiev provinces by myself. I've only been to big cities such as Lviv, Odessa and cities in Crimea.[/QUOTE]Not thrilling, there have been many better posts on here.

As to locales, like I said in the Russian forum, go for any cities around 300, 000. Rivne, Ternopil, Sumy, etc. The bigger cities have their own special dynamic (Kiev, Odessa, Lviv, Kharkiv, even Dnepro and Donetsk). If you are looking for towns around Kiev to invite girls I would suggest Chernigov (obvious) as it has a very low income level even by Ukrainian standards, almost the lowest the in the country. And it is just 2.5 hours or so by elektrichka which should be about $3 each way. Also try Bela Tserkov.

[QUOTE=Angus Magee;1210461]Nominate for the RoD? Just go to the thread and click ad report. Then ad the report, or a link to it.[/QUOTE]I guess I must be dumb, but which one is the link to Latexian2's report 8729?

[QUOTE=Sorbonne;1210494]I guess I must be dumb, but which one is the link to Latexian2's report 8729?[/QUOTE]If you go to the top right hand side of a report you will see a number. Open this in a new tab and the url will take the person directly to that post when posted as a link.

So: [url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1210344&viewfull=1#post1210344[/url]

This is the link to the post in question.

AM

[QUOTE=Latexian2;1210471]As to locales, like I said in the Russian forum, go for any cities around 300, 000. Rivne, Ternopil, Sumy, etc.[/QUOTE]You never had problems with local thugs in provinces?

I think a 300 000 ukrainian (or Russian) city can become VERY small if some locals flatheads have targeted you because you've missed up with the "wrong" girl. There's in those provinces people with whom you REALLY don't want any trouble. Local thugs HATE when foreigners try to steal "their" women. Worth being very careful if pissing on their shoes, on their home turf.

[QUOTE=Latexian2; 1210471]Not thrilling, there have been many better posts on here.

As to locales, like I said in the Russian forum, go for any cities around 300, 000. Rivne, Ternopil, Sumy, etc. The bigger cities have their own special dynamic (Kiev, Odessa, Lviv, Kharkiv, even Dnepro and Donetsk). If you are looking for towns around Kiev to invite girls I would suggest Chernigov (obvious) as it has a very low income level even by Ukrainian standards, almost the lowest the in the country. And it is just 2. 5 hours or so by elektrichka which should be about $3 each way. Also try Bela Tserkov.[/QUOTE]Thanks for your recomendations Do you have good experiences with Dnepropetrovsk? I was there and some nice student type or Non Pro, but was not easy for me to find Pros or agencies escorts, do you know some there?

[QUOTE=Latexian2; 1210344]You're right that I forgot to mention vkontakte has the big caveat that since it's a normal social networking site, women aren't expecting to be speaking English and many don't. You're better off having an opener that is in Russian, even if it's just a copy / paste from google translate.

You can spend a lot of time talking to young hunnies who are wanting to just be entertained and have a foreign friend. Turning that into sex isn't easy. Thats why what I said before, asking them to come stay with you and you will take care of them is the way to go. That way you are implying you want to have sex, you are making it into a sexual conversation. Many will get offended and turn your offer down, but still want to meet up at a cafe or a walk. [b]Don't meet with these girls[/b]. You need a strategy where you can tell online which girls might be open to a sexual relationship. Even then it's not guaranteed, but you're at least getting odds of 50% or something once you're in country, whereas most of these Ukrainian girls will happily have you chat them up and pay the bill without ever giving you anything.

The best strategy is talking to girls in small towns around Kiev, because they know how to get to Kiev and can probably come for a weekend if they really wanted to. They also tend to be poorer, which lets be honest is always a factor since they don't have many experiences and are at least open to adventure (if not outright cash). Since they're not in Kiev, they'll need a place to stay and so it's natural for you to invite them to stay with you. This is win-win for you because you are getting more pliable women (girls in Kiev are more savvy) and you're basically guaranteed sex if they come stay with you unless you just totally wimp out and sleep on the couch or something. There's no awkward end of night "closing" where you are trying to get them to come home with you.

Since I'm revealing all my secrets I will go ahead and say the big payoff for me is to meet girls in the provinces, occasionally getting one night stands. Then on my next trip invite ones I've already met to come to Kiev for a few days. After that I go out to the provinces again. What this does is removes the problem many girls have of going and staying with someone they've never met. If you came across as a gentlemen in the provinces, your odds are good that if she's into you she'll come and stay. If you really hit on girls hardcore in the provinces you can get 5-10 contacts a day. So just 3-4 days of going to some town will get you enough that you'll have someone who can come to you in Kiev next time. You should always say you're going for business, and that this next time you're only going to be in Kiev a few days for business meetings, but you really want to see her and you'll be free for the weekend, can she come visit?

Kiev girls are harder to get for one night stands, they'll want to just walk with you during the day or sit in a cafe if it's winter, except for those in bars / clubs that might be down for a one night stand. But those you shouldn't meet online anyways.

If you're focusing just on freebies and you have limited time I wouldn't do anything on the internet at all. Your best bet is always going to be night game, going to clubs / bars and working on girls. The reason is that it's a self-selecting group whereas online many of the girls aren't available to be gamed and fucked, no matter how suave you are.

I also think you can't get past the economics of it. In the West women are so dominant that the best strategy is to play hard ball and never give them a dime. But in Ukraine women know this game and unless they're over 25 you basically have to pay them for sex, whether it's gifts, travel, or clubs / restaurants. Since Ukraine is so cheap I don't know why you wouldn't do this. Approaching a 22 year old accountant in the US is very different than a 19 year old student in Kiev. Some of the same strategies apply, some don't.

Of course you don't want to get fleeced. You need to make her understand you see what she is doing, that you understand her wants and desires and she must fulfill yours before she can get hers. That's the only way to have her respect you. In the US the strategy is to never shell out for girls, especially on the first night. Buying drinks almost never works. But in Ukraine many girls literally don't have the money to go to a club in the first place, so they won't be doing anything without you. You need to take her along and pay for her, but only pay for what you want. My general rule is I ask a girl before we go out if she understands she is going to be my girl tonight, and that while she is with me I will take care of her and pay for her, but only what I choose. I might ask her what cocktail she wants, then go ahead and order her something else. I NEVER let girls order at a club / restaurant and then pay for it. When that happens I tell them they ordered so they pay, I don't take orders from women.

Even then I am very hesitant to pay if I can avoid it. That means for most girls not taking them to clubs. Although if she's young and inexperienced you might do it just to impress her. I once took a smoking-hot 18 year old Belarussian to a club in Minsk, and she had never been to a club before so there was no risk of her ditching me. She stayed attached to my arm the entire time not knowing how the whole game worked. But as Doc Skank famously said, you go to a club to meet women not to entertain the ones you already know.

One other exception in terms of paying is if it can help escalation, usually that means by buying alcohol. Buying a few rounds of shots can get a woman more pliable, so it can be a good investment (and at $1 / shot in the provinces, why not?). Even though it's cheap you don't want to get in the mindset of "Fuck it, I'll just pay for anything and everything". While that might only run you $50 all-night in the provinces for food and drinks, it also leads to a loss of respect.

I do this all too often though when I'm drunk and just amazed at how cheap everything is, and I can be the rich guy in the club and sponsor a whole table. I once saw a table of 10 girls (all 17-25) celebrating a birthday with just a meager shot or two of vodka each and sharing some juice. I found a waitress, ordered them a bunch of fruit, ice cream, various (cheap) cocktails, champagne, more vodka, a hookah, and a beer for me. When it started being delivered I went over and sat with them. I was the hit of the party, talking in my okay but accented Russian about all kinds of things, getting dances with many of them and kisses from a few too. Of course this is a terrible strategy as the group was too big to isolate one, let alone take one home (impossible with the others cockblocking). So it was a total bust, but the entire bill was something like $60 (and I had another 5-6 beers).

Sometimes it's worth it to have a night like that just to boost your confidence, even if you don't get laid.

The easiest freebies of course are the sex-starved 25+ group (some of them moms, some not) who just want a good time and often don't expect anything in return (in my experience they will ofthen pay YOU for sex in terms of feeding you, treating you well, showing you around).[/QUOTE]Yes that was an excellent read!

That is the evolution I am looking at as I develop my time here. One step at a time. In summer when I return that is exactly what I will add to my list of things to do, venture with a few lad's preferably from ISG or if not my ukr translator friends. & make summer a little more interesting. But I'm in no rush as overall my time here is closing on 3 months total. So I'm happy with almost everything thats coming & going. Of course Russian I feel is the real key to unbelieveable success at victory rates. My Russian lessons are commencing soon.

& I suppose another way to get a visa in Ukr is to start learning Russian for a year, which commences before you start your degree in ukr. So you can get a student visa? Then that would allow you to reside legally for a year. If after you decided to pull out of your course. I'm not 100 % on this though a ukr was telling me this is what the turkish do before they begin their degrees. They need to speak the lingo.

Mamba- waste of time, but I will try again in my next trip? Maybe if I have time.

BEST BODY- the girl from RIO but she did not give me the best service, gave a very average CBJ.

BEST SERVICE- the only girl I met from mamba, she assured me her photos on the site were real, very pretty girl, I saw her 2 times.

Some girls emailed me their real photos (if those were really their real photos) but they did not look good so I didn't see them.

I made it clear to mamba girls that I must see their real photos before they come to me to make sure I like them otherwise I may not keep them

Saw 2 girls from agencies. They were fine.

Thats all.

Did not get a a chance to try D'Lux, maybe next year.

BTW- can you take home the waitress at RIO?

There was a blond waitress I liked)

It seems in Kiev airport there are now 2 terminals and they are making 2 more terminals (I guess for soccer games in 2012)

C is for incoming flights.

F is for outgoing flights.

The fukking driver who drove me to the airport did not know and kept asking C or F, I told him just drive there I will figure it out.

I think the C and F were in the same complex before but now they are separate

[QUOTE=Mystery77; 1210643]Yes that was an excellent read!

That is the evolution I am looking at as I develop my time here. One step at a time. In summer when I return that is exactly what I will add to my list of things to do, venture with a few lad's preferably from ISG or if not my ukr translator friends. & make summer a little more interesting. But I'm in no rush as overall my time here is closing on 3 months total. So I'm happy with almost everything thats coming & going. Of course Russian I feel is the real key to unbelieveable success at victory rates. My Russian lessons are commencing soon.

& I suppose another way to get a visa in Ukr is to start learning Russian for a year, which commences before you start your degree in ukr. So you can get a student visa? Then that would allow you to reside legally for a year. If after you decided to pull out of your course. I'm not 100 % on this though a ukr was telling me this is what the turkish do before they begin their

Degrees. They need to speak the lingo.[/QUOTE]You're talking about the preparatory course all non Russian speakers must take (and pass) before being accepted on the university course you wish to study. I have a few friends who did it at Lomonosov and it's pretty intense, you have to be willing to put a lot of effort in on your own after class but I have to admit, their Russian after just six months was absolutely shit hot! In fact it was funny because we went to a pub and met two girls who had just graduated from Oxford with a Russian degree and they blew them out of the water, I kid you not. Russian is a very, very difficult language to master. I went and studied it for two months in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan with the aim of nailing the grammar (I already spoke decent Russian but without caring too much for the grammar) and it can be a soul destroying endeavor because there is so much too learn and it's a real struggle to nail it (not trying to put you off here. Russian being a case based language requires you to change the ending of pretty much every word in a sentence so you're constantly having to think about which of the cases you need to use and the corresponding endings. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck! To cut to the chase, my point is that if you're only trying to learn it to pull women (that was my only reason for studying it) or for a visa you'll almost certainly never master it or you'll get to a level where you can chat to women, which takes about three months, and then quit the course (that's what I did ). The people who succeed and master it are the people motivated by work or by their desire to get accepted on the university course proper (that's been my experience of the people I know anyway ).

Learning Russian open many doors with the women in the FSU but you've still got to have the skills to close the deals. I've found it especially useful with day game, cold approaches with shop girls and hired hands etc. It's a big DHV and immediately sets you apart from the average non Russian speaking foreigner which intrigues the women to want to know what you're all

About. It also allows you to understand how the dating game works in the country already (between the natives) and you can then tweak that to your own style whilst still keeping within the ground rules that she will be comfortable with. Once you are good enough in Russian then you can create your own stack of routines in the language (I. E one DHV story, a good opinion opener, a few negs, a joke. All the old MM techniques. And then you'll have a great time, trust me. However the fact is that my best nights out and my most memorable conquests and failures have been with women who spoke very good English. It just means I can play the games in the field without having to be thinking about how to say something and missing the nuances in her replies. Good luck on the course anyway, I promise you that whatever effort you put in, you'll be rewarded for ten times over in the field.

Letexian: I really enjoyed your post and the part regarding buying girls drinks. My policy over there has always been the opposite to what it is here a home. In the UK I don't buy girls drinks until I'm in a relationship with them for the obvious reasons of value etc. However in the FSU I turn that the other way round. If I like a girl over there and decide I would like to have some kind of longer term relationship (longer then a couple of lays in other words) with her I usually spend big in the beginning but then very very rarely again in our relationship. My thinking being that taking a girl out for a nice meal and then a top club with drinks is a massive DHV over there because so few men can afford to do it to them usually (unlike in the west where most can afford a big night out and the girl has done it a thousand times ). The girls there want to know IF you can afford to do those kind of things, and once you've shown that you can and will on certain occasions, you need not do it again except as a reward for some kind of good behavior or just because you want to have a great night out with her. I think your club story illustrates the point: buying the table of girls drinks in the west they would have made you look beta and they would have tried to milk you for more, but over there you doing that turned you from just another guy into being 'The Man' and they rewarded you for it with make outs and numbers. I'm not saying that you should buy everyone a drink but merely that we don't have to be so uptight about it as we are in our own countries. I will admit however that I usually go out on the pull in provincial towns where a little bit of flash can impress, I'm willing to concede that with big city girls it might be as counter productive as in the west.

Sorry, my post below contains a load of abbreviations that will mean nothing to most readers. I'll knock them on the head in future.

[QUOTE=Borderland;1210700]I will admit however that I usually go out on the pull in provincial towns where a little bit of flash can impress, I'm willing to concede that with big city girls it might be as counter productive as in the west.[/QUOTE]I think this is exactly right. In Kiev I don't think you're going to impress many chicks with your pocketbook unless you're really a big spender. There are clubs where they've seen all that before. In the small towns I've been told that most guys there can't afford to buy a girl a cocktail. I mean going out and spending more than $10 or so is a big night for a Ukrainian guy in a small town making $150 a month. They tend to stick to vodka / beer. So dropping $60 on a table of girls is actually a pretty big deal that most Ukrainian guys can't afford.

Of course the downside is the small town effect where the girls might be embarrassed to be seen with you, and if she goes home with you from a club everyone will know. You have to offer her a way to be discrete. The strategy that worked for me better is to meet girls on the street or at a club, and then organize a party at your place on the next day. Even then it's not guaranteed and once the girl invited guys (even though I told her not to invite any guys) and they ruined the whole, the police ended up coming.

The craziest reactions I got was at a town of about 80, 000 in Russia way out in the middle of nowhere almost in Siberia, I'm talking a 5 hour train / bus to a medium-sized city with an airport. Basically zero foreigners there, I met the main English language translator there a woman of about 35 who usually helps the multinationals when they send a representative and she said there are like 5-6 foreigners a year that come. In Ukraine you've got the peace corps volunteers that you run into sometimes in the smaller towns, and many Ukrainians have met them. But in that small town in Russia I was like a rock star, I was interviewed on the local TV station, invited to participate in a cooking show (I don't cook!) and was a huge hit at the local "club" which wasn't much to speak of, just an empty room with bottles of beer on the wall. Even with all that though I didn't manage to get laid, although I was only there for two nights. It was still fun as hell though, probably the best time I've had in a small town. I have a good Russian friend living there and he showed me around and he wasn't looking for action so it didn't give me much opportunity. I'm going to go visit him again in January, so maybe it will happen this time.

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1210628]You never had problems with local thugs in provinces?

I think a 300 000 ukrainian (or Russian) city can become VERY small if some locals flatheads have targeted you because you've missed up with the "wrong" girl. There's in those provinces people with whom you REALLY don't want any trouble. Local thugs HATE when foreigners try to steal "their" women. Worth being very careful if pissing on their shoes, on their home turf.[/QUOTE]Only once did I have any problems, and some girls stepped in and called the police. But in general I really haven't had much trouble. The key is to always hit on girls alone, or groups of girls. A few times I have had some guy come and tell me one of the girls is his girlfriend and in those situations I try to be friendly, it helps if you speak Russian. That is I immediately defer to the guy saying I had no idea, offer to buy him a drink, etc. If he's super drunk or something I'd probably just get the hell out as fast as possible though.

Also I find that in the provinces there is often an "old people's club" which is where the 21-60 crowd hangs out, and the young people's club which is often something like 15-25. Naturally since I'm a sleazeball I go to the young people's club which tends to be more upscale in terms of decor and less drunken fist fights. I lived in provincial Russia for half a year and there was one club that always had drunk and beliigerant Russian guys, and you'd often see blood on the walls in the bathroom. But other clubs were very orderly and most people wouldn't try anything.

I'm also a big guy so those scrawny 18 year olds aren't really a problem. I do agree that it is always a fear of mine to see groups of drunk guys on the streets at night as I'm walking by. That's why I try only to take taxis past dark or not to say too much. Also in winter if you're wearing a coat / hat you blend in much more than in summer in my experience.

But in general all of these problems I think are worse in Russia then Ukraine because nationalism is strongly anti-Western and anti-foreigner in Russia. St. Pete is actually the worst, I think I have about 10 friends now who have been beat up or mugged by police, one of them even got "escorted" him by the police only to have them rob his apartment (computer, cash, passport, etc.). I haven't heard such stories in Ukraine, only the typical ones in Kiev like the cash lying on the street scam where you pick up the money and someone comes and says it's theirs but it's not all their so you owe them $100 or whatever.

The possibility of violence this is a real issue that one should be careful of. I guess after living in Russia for so long I've gotten good at seeing these problems coming before they hit you, so you know how to get out of those situations. And it's true you sometimes have to be weak and just give the girl you're entertaining away; I'm all for standing up to tough guys but when you're one foreigner in a club of 50 Ukrainians and a group of them comes up to you you should just defuse the situation as fast as you can even if it means just leaving the club immediately. (That only happened to me once in 2 years -- really about the same as in a small town in the US).

But in Ukraine I think you'd be surprised that most young guys at a club are more interested in being the guy chilling with the foreigner than they are getting pissed at you. That is being with you gives them status and better prospects with the ladies. Nine times out of then that's what I've experienced, and it often gets really annoying because these guys won't leave you alone and can end up cockblocking you.

[QUOTE=Latexian2;1210806]But in Ukraine I think you'd be surprised that most young guys at a club are more interested in being the guy chilling with the foreigner than they are getting pissed at you. That is being with you gives them status and better prospects with the ladies. Nine times out of then that's what I've experienced, and it often gets really annoying because these guys won't leave you alone and can end up cockblocking you.[/QUOTE]Turning the subject around here, but when I'm in Kiev, guys often come up to me on street and ask me if I speak English. Thinking they only want to scam me, I typically just shrug them off or say "go away," and they leave saying "f**k off" or whatever in broken English. Anybody know what they want?

[QUOTE=Latexian2;1210806]But in Ukraine I think you'd be surprised that most young guys at a club are more interested in being the guy chilling with the foreigner than they are getting pissed at you. That is being with you gives them status and better prospects with the ladies. Nine times out of then that's what I've experienced, and it often gets really annoying because these guys won't leave you alone and can end up cockblocking you.[/QUOTE]This. Been in that situation ten times more then I have been threatened or hassled.

I've never had a single problem in Russia, provinces or cities, however I'm white. It's sad to say that if you're Asian looking or black you might, might, get a bit more hassle. Not in the daytime walking about going to cafes etc. But at night time in clubs where people are drunk someone might say something, especially if you're doing well with the girls there. I don't like to say that because I've got nothing but praise for Russians, love them to bits, but there is an element in their society that is abhorrent I've just been lucky enough to never have crossed swords with it.

[QUOTE=Borderland;1210846]I don't like to say that because I've got nothing but praise for Russians, love them to bits, but there is an element in their society that is abhorrent I've just been lucky enough to never have crossed swords with it.[/QUOTE]Russians (or Ukrainians for that matter) can pass from nice to berserk in a heartbeat. This is admittedly a bad side of their character. Anyhow you guys are lucky. Dozens times in FSU I've had words with drunk guys becoming territory at the bar. That said it was most often with drunk Italians or Turks, who usually can't hold their liquor.

I've been involved in brawls two or three times, and in Tashkent even had a cornea crack that obliged me to go to the eye-clinic twice a day during one week to plaster my eye and to endure a bandage covering half of my face. Positive side is that during that week, girls pampered me like never. (smilie)