Angeles City

[quote=furryfriend;1179659]oh give me a break and use some business logic. the more bars profit, the more they can hire, and the more choices are available for everyone. econ 101.[/quote]except when the girls can make enough money off drinks to be really picky. then your choices are actually shrinking.

look at the extreme (hypothetical) case. girls are making insane amounts of money off drinks. 50k pesos a month and up, say. how many girls would still want to barfine? only if they see something they really like i. e. it would be like dating in a non-p4p scene.

[quote=furryfriend;1179659]ask any bar owner whether cheap charlies or spluring koreans would induce them to expand their business and hire more girls and the answer is obvious. i've never met a bar owner who said "if only i get more cheap charlies in here, i can hire more girls."[/quote]what's good for the barowners is not always good for the mongers.

[quote=furryfriend;1179659]do you know you've just contridcted yourself? if there's an increased surge of tourism, it's because tourists are happy and pleased with what's going on in ac. the only people not pleased are cheap charlies and expats who are getting outspent.[/quote]or maybe it's because the word is really getting out on ac, that's where the increased customers come from. or because economically, asia is a more happening place now. or because it's easier to get to ac now (with more direct flights into clark).

are there really more tourists in ac compared to years past? it's low season now, and many reports suggest the going is really slow in the bars. however, the hotels seem to be doing good business. maybe some guys are cutting out the bars and doing sneakouts, and getting girls through other venues.

[quote=furryfriend; 1179659]why do you think koreans (and other asians) are flooding into ac? obviously, it's because they're happy with what they're getting. this proves, once again, that the amount you spend is directly corolated with the quality of girls and service you get.

i never said i prefer to pay more. but i have no problem with the price of lady drinks as long as prices were clearly revealed before i ordered.
[/quote]
exactly. and if the bars would only clearly reveal the cherry girls before we ordered them a drink we would all be happy.

[quote=furryfriend; 1179659]the bars have the right to charge any price they want. i have the right to refuse to buy.

that is not my understanding. you buy her a drink because you want her company. that's it. everything else is negotiable and subject to mutual consent. that's how it works in a free society. so a guy is down $4. 00 as a result. soon enough, if that $4. 00 is so important to him, he'll ask the girl about barfining before he buys the drink. trial and error.

i can't believe we're even having this discussion. how can anyone morally justify prostitution if there is coersion? does anyone really want to sleep with a girl if she genuinely doesn't want to have sex with him? i consider that borderline [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url].[/quote]look, money plays a big role in this situation. it's called p4p after all. the biggest reason why girls choose to work in ac bars: money. reason why they go on barfines instead of just staying in the bar: money (although this is increasingly not true anymore in certain bars. the girls make enough money off drinks that they don't really have to barfine anymore, and many don't). in short, the ac bargirls are doing it for the money. because they are poor, and pretty much have to (or continue to live in abject poverty).

is this coercion? is this "borderline [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]"? it's financial pressure and incentive. happens in pretty much all of p4p (with some rare exceptions). it's the nature of the beast. if you have a problem with this, you should not be doing p4p.

it is a free world btw. the girl is free to not work in a cathouse in ac. once they choose to do so, there are certain expectations. you can't work in a cathouse and be prim, proper and choosy. only in the pi!

furryfriend, if you want to find girls who really want to sleep and fuck with you, go to the mall in a rich country. in pi malls, even is the girl is a normal girl she may very well be doing it for some kind of financial benefit (or maybe hoping for a green card to the us). find a girl who is financially well off enough, and you will find happiness.

[QUOTE=Wadman;1179674]What's good for the barowners is not always good for the mongers.[/QUOTE]You're right. Not "always". But I think we all agree that there is (and should be) mutual benefit between the bars and the patrons. Methinks a $4 drink is a reasonable price to pay for newbies to learn the ropes.

For patrons to think he should pay as little as possible is not in the bar's interest. I think we should throw the bar owners a bone once in a while.

[QUOTE=Wadman; 1179674]Look at the extreme (hypothetical) case. Girls are making insane amounts of money off drinks. 50k pesos a month and up, say. How many girls would still want to barfine? Only if they see something they really like I. E. It would be like dating in a non-P4P scene.

Except when the girls can make enough money off drinks to be really picky. Then your choices are actually shrinking.[/QUOTE]That won't happen.

Here's how capitalism works.

If girls can make lots of money from drinks, more girls will enter the industry (and bars will hire them). The more girls are in the industry, the more downward pressure there'd be on prices and barfines. After all, it is economically impossible for there to be a massive glut of girls working on Fields and each of them can get away with being picky. You'd need to assume that there's an infinite number of tourists.

True, the really hot ones can be picky and will sell herself to the highest bidder. That's actually good. Because if I bid high enough, I can get her. If price isn't a factor, then it's first-come-first-served. You likely wouldn't be able to get her anyway because the second she steps onstage, some Cheap Charlie can pluck her offstage.

[QUOTE=Wadman;1179674]Or maybe it's because the word is really getting out on AC, that's where the increased customers come from. Or because economically, Asia is a more happening place now. Or because it's easier to get to AC now (with more direct flights into Clark).[/QUOTE]Even if Asia is rocking with prosperity, tourist wouldn't flock to AC unless they feel they're getting value for their trip. You don't see these Korean tourists mongering in New Delhi. Do you think the Koreans have colonized AC because they're getting screwed with runners and nonperformers?

[QUOTE=Wadman;1179674]It is a free world BTW. The girl is free to NOT work in a cathouse in AC. Once they choose to do so, there are certain expectations. You can't work in a cathouse and be prim, proper and choosy.[/QUOTE]Who said they must have sex with clients to work in a bar? What's wrong with girls working only to sell commissions from drinks?

This is not a brothal or "cathouse". It's a "bar". It says so at the door. There should be no "expectations" from patrons to sleep with any girl. She has the right to say NO. You're there to drink, watch the silly show and get company. Everything else is negotiable and rightfully subject to mutual consent.

[QUOTE=Mortman;1179647]Checked in to the hotel and met my DIA girl with her two kids about 30 minutes later outside the hotel, they had travelled from Gapan City to meet me. Mom was 37 and an ex bar girl and her two daughters aged 18 and 20. Now maybe some of you guys might think that meeting a DIA girl in AC is not a good strategy since AC has more than enough to occupy every guy's needs, but the thought have having a mom and two daughters was just irresistable and since AC was the most accesible place for us to meet in terms of airports it had to be AC.[/QUOTE]I don't know what to say. On the one hand I am pissed that you got a mother and TWO daughters when most of us would be happy with a mother and ONE daughter. You have to be a greedy SOB and do two daughters and their mom. :)

On the other hand, congratulations on your success. Makes those of us with a lot less success more envious than ever.

Glad to see you are having so much fun, you lucky bastard. ;)

Slim

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1179659]Do you know you've just contridcted yourself? If there's an increased surge of tourism, it's because tourists are HAPPY and PLEASED with what's going on in AC. The only people not pleased are Cheap Charlies and expats who are getting outspent.[/QUOTE]Depends on what context you're looking at.

Most tourists are not hardcore mongers and love to waste their money on crap. The top tourist destinations in the world are the ones with the largest amount of expensive utter crap, such as Disney World.

These tourists wash away the delicate culture of P4P like a tsunami, leaving behind them a wasteland of themed malls, t-shirt shops and designer hotels, where all the money stays with landlords, and nothing gets into the hands of enterprising young pussy.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1179659]Do you know you've just contridcted yourself? If there's an increased surge of tourism, it's because tourists are HAPPY and PLEASED with what's going on in AC. The only people not pleased are Cheap Charlies and expats who are getting outspent.[/QUOTE]An increase in Tourism doesn't necessarily mean that tourists are happy. Is it all repeat tourists? Effective marketing campaigns have been known to spur tourism in countries sending a flood of NEW tourists.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1179659]The only people not pleased are Cheap Charlies and expats who are getting outspent.[/QUOTE]Sorry, you're wrong.

I know people who don't fit into either of those two groups who are NOT PLEASED with the attitudes of some of the girls now and who are NOT PLEASED with what AC is offering today.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1179695]This is not a brothal or "cathouse". It's a "bar". It says so at the door. There should be no "expectations" from patrons to sleep with any girl. She has the right to say NO. You're there to drink, watch the silly show and get company. Everything else is negotiable and rightfully subject to mutual consent.[/QUOTE]Sounds like an American Politician.

"There should be no "expectations" from patrons to sleep with any girl". Haha, yah I fly to AC so I can drink in a bar ONLY!

Of course she has the right to say "NO". I think we all understand that, dude!

[QUOTE=Amjeck;1179774]An increase in Tourism doesn't necessarily mean that tourists are happy. Is it all repeat tourists? Effective marketing campaigns have been known to spur tourism in countries sending a flood of NEW tourists.[/QUOTE]When I call AC hotels on the weekend, they are all fully booked, even the expensive suites. Whats on offer seems to be in demand!

As for the cherry girl discussion. I don't understand the whole topic. Personally I wouldn't do an AC cherry if she barfined ME. They are bad in bed.
If some japanese dudes want to pay for inane bar chat followed by sexless night of snuggles and cuddles, hey, whatever floats their boat.

[QUOTE=Mc Don;1179447]You spend thousands to get to AC and stay there and worry about a $4 drink? Just enjoy the girls.[/QUOTE]It's not just the money, but the time. If bar "prime time" is from 8 til midnight, there are a finite number of interviews a guy on vacation has time to complete on any given night.

There's really no excuse for not clearly labeling the cherry girls. It's an attempt to fleece money from unsuspecting customers, period. I have no problems with cherries in the bars. I just feel they should be labeled. It would make things easier for the guys who are deliberately looking for them, too.

Personally, I always sit close enough to the stage to inspect the ID's. If the girl covers it up, I move on to the next girl.

[QUOTE=Rob Woodrow; 1179854]It's not just the money, but the time. If bar "prime time" is from 8 til midnight, there are a finite number of interviews a guy on vacation has time to complete on any given night.

There's really no excuse for not clearly labeling the cherry girls. It's an attempt to fleece money from unsuspecting customers, period. I have no problems with cherries in the bars. I just feel they should be labeled. It would make things easier for the guys who are deliberately looking for them, too.

Personally, I always sit close enough to the stage to inspect the I'd's. If the girl covers it up, I move on to the next girl.[/QUOTE]As far as I am concerned labeling anyone as something less desirable is degrading. If you are that hung upon $4 then ask straight up, no need to be embarrassed even if she is not virgin she might have her period or may not like you in first place. Time is no concern if money is no concern, you can always pay and walk away in order to save time.

For those lucky enough to spend less then thousand bucks to get to AC, $4 should be no big deal either.

I have no problem with cherry girls, I think many of us don't mind them and enjoy them in some capacity. I know one monger that married one (still married 5years now). I also know of one that has had many and buys them houses, AC regular, obviously with some big bucks behind him. Bottom line is there is a market for them and they will be there for long time to come.

Like in the supermarket make your choice more careful. If you can't see the tag then just ask before shelling any cash.

I don't see it as scam, at best a bar can earn 4-5 drink a night which means around $10 profit for the bar. Do you really think the bar owners are that desperate?

[QUOTE=Amjeck; 1179636]I the last few years there has been an increased popularity and surge of tourist money flowing into AC. Would you say the quality of pussy has gotten better or worse? Is the general monger happier or less happier today. Is there more value for your money today?

I think cheap charlies are good to have around. They keep things in check.[/QUOTE]Based on what? Just a presumption?

For my two pence worth, certainly the hotels are a lot busier, BUT from my personal observation quite a few of their guests appear to be businessman. Who else would come down to breakfast alone and in a suit at 7 AM?

Yes, the budget airlines flying into Clark have certainly brought more Koreans, Chinese and possibly Malaysian's to town but I think we are all aware they have their own bars and agenda.

When I was in town at the beginning of the month it was certainly much quieter than my last visit, prices had moved up, but service and attitude had deteriorated.

Maybe good old Patty is a little bit more expensive, but the quality of the product is better, you don't have too fight extortionate demands from tricycle drivers et al, and in MHO Patty is much safer.

I would hold my hand up and say that here is a very experienced Monger it is much less happy with the current AC, and I'm certainly not a cheap Charlie! Higher prices should bring better service but it's very obvious they are not as far as AC is concerned.

[QUOTE=Sansai; 1179878]Based on what? Just a presumption?

For my two pence worth, certainly the hotels are a lot busier, BUT from my personal observation quite a few of their guests appear to be businessman. Who else would come down to breakfast alone and in a suit at 7 AM?

Yes, the budget airlines flying into Clark have certainly brought more Koreans, Chinese and possibly Malaysian's to town but I think we are all aware they have their own bars and agenda.

When I was in town at the beginning of the month it was certainly much quieter than my last visit, prices had moved up, but service and attitude had deteriorated.[/QUOTE]You're absolutely right. AC is seeing more and more businessmen because of the expansion of businesses on Clark. That is partly the reason for the increase in Hotels being built and increase in prices. And what I believe to be partly the reason for the interest in cleaning up AC. (I. E. Bar raids) Clark is bringing in big $$$$. And as more and more business invest. The less AC will need monger bars. As it is more and more are doing dance routines and floor shows. And fewer of those girls are BFing.

Clark freeport posts 352% increase in investments. [url]http://www.gglc.ph/n.nvestments.html[/url]

I don't believe that EVERY girl came to AC with the idea of being a Prostitute. For most it was probably the ONLY offer of a paying job they had. So those who truly are not into BF's. Try to get by with as few BF's as possible. Their wages have increased and with that their need to BF has decreased.

If they can get by without BF's then I believe quite a few won't. And I have no problem with it.

Had my first night alone in AC last night. I started off at Dirty Ducks on the recommendation of a friend and positioned myself where I had a good view of the stage and settled down. Almost immediately I caught the eye of Lyn a beautiful tiny girl, so petite and slim I could have easily picked her up with one hand. Got her to join me and bought her a regular lady drink (150 pesos) and got chatting. She was so cute and aged 20. I was able to put my thumb and index finger around the girth of her upper arm and my hands are not so big, so it gives you an idea of how tiny she was. Got round to the subject of barfining and she told me she was not feeling well. She was shivering involutarily and whether that was because she was coming down with flu or the air con I will never know or maybe I just didn't appeal to her? I was pissed since I thought to myself why are you dancing if you are not feeling so well, but I put it down to beginners bad luck, paid for the drinks and left.

Next into Pashas, where I had gone the night before with my gf. Not as busy on the stage but still packed with about 30 girls. One caught my eye Elizabeth who was not smiling (maybe a bad sign) but seemed very sultry in a sexy kind of way. Again slim like Lyn but much taller looking fairly detached from what was happening around her, almost as if she felt embarrassed. I was joined by the Mamasan and pointed out Elizabeth. Not keen not to make the same mistake that I had made in the previous bar, I asked the Mamasan what girls were available for barfining. She pointed across the stage and said to me that all the girls were availlable for bar fining so I asked her to bring Elizabeth over to my table. The mamasan told me she would speak to the girl on my behalf and I told her that was not necessary I could speak to the girl myself.

Anyway Elizabeth joined me and we got chatting. I ordered a further drink and a lady drink (again 150) and as the waitress went off to fetch the drinks whilst Elizabeth in the meantime drops the bombshell and tells me (in her own words)"I have blood". WTF so I said "I guess that means you cannot be barfined right?" and she nodded, looking slightly embarrassed. I got up and went over to the bar and saw that the drinks had been prepared. I told the waitress to cancel the lady drink and the Mamasan came over to enquire what was wrong?. I told her I was not happy since she had told me all the girls were available for barfining and that I would not have ordered a drink for Elizabeth if I had known she was on her period. The Mamasan argued back that I should have allowed her to speak to the girl first, so maybe I was at fault what do you guys think? Anyway I paid for my SML without drinking it and walked out feeling a bit down.

Went into a few other bars had some drinks but nothing really atracted me until I ended up in Voodoo. I met another girl in there called Mary Jane, not a traditional beauty by any stretch of the imagination, crooked teeth and eyes set slightly too wide apart but very attractive in a subtle kind of way that I cannot explain. She was like the other girls extremely slim with the flattest stomach I have seen in a long time. I was surprised when she told me she had a six month old son fathered by a Russian guy who is living and teaching computer studies in AC. Anyway I purchased her a lady drink and bought myself a further non alcoholic drink as I was reaching my limit for alcohol especially beer which I find very bloating. Mary Jane was keen to be barfined and told me she would stay for breakfast and I felt happy I had now found someone I was happy with. It was now around 1. 30am and I was feeling tired so told Mary Jane we would head back once we had finished the drinks. We continued chatting and she told me how it was her ex bf (the Russian guy) that had brought to AC from Samar. She then told me her boyfriend had contracted a number of sexually transmitted diseases as he was constantly unfaithful with numerous bar girls. Well I don't know what happened to me right there and then but it completely extinguished any desire I had for Mary Jane, even though she assured me she was not infected. I just lost all interest within that split second of her telling me this story, much the same as if someone had poured a cold bucket of water over my head. I stayed and chatted to her for a little while longer and then told her I was feeling too tired to take her back, made my excuses and left.

I felt a little bit down after my not very auspicious start to the bar scene in AC, went back to the hotel alone and slept soundly. I need more time here really to understand the scene a bit better here, which is unlike anything I have experienced in the Philippines before. I only have a few hours spare this afternoon before I fly back to Cebu so I am going out this afternoon to have a last couple of hours bar hopping. If anything interesting happens I will post here!

[QUOTE=ThatGuy865;1179891]I don't believe that EVERY girl came to AC with the idea of being a Prostitute. For most it was probably the ONLY offer of a paying job they had. So those who truly are not into BF's. Try to get by with as few BF's as possible. Their wages have increased and with that their need to BF has decreased.[/QUOTE]Very true.

Most hookers in Malate are there because they want to be hookers (or at least are comfortable with the idea of getting paid for sex)

A lot of the girls in AC bars are not happy being hookers, don't like the idea of sleeping with strangers, and are in the bar only because they had no paying alternative whatsoever in their home province. If you barfine one of these girls you are likely to run into a wall of complaints back in the hotel room (your too big, I am ticklish, I don't do xyz, can I go now, etc.)

For this reason when in AC I don't usually pick a girl, I let the girl pick me. Which in my case almost always is a waitress, or a door girl (very rarely a dancer)

[QUOTE=Mortman; 1180032]Had my first night alone in AC last night. I started off at Dirty Ducks on the recommendation of a friend and positioned myself where I had a good view of the stage and settled down. Almost immediately I caught the eye of Lyn a beautiful tiny girl, so petite and slim I could have easily picked her up with one hand. Got her to join me and bought her a regular lady drink (150 pesos) and got chatting.

Went into a few other bars had some drinks but nothing really atracted me until I ended up in Voodoo. I met another girl in there called Mary Jane, not a traditional beauty by any stretch of the imagination, crooked teeth and eyes set slightly too wide apart but very attractive in a subtle kind of way that I cannot explain. She was like the other girls extremely slim with the flattest stomach I have seen in a long time. I was surprised when she told me she had a six month old son fathered by a Russian guy who is living and teaching computer studies in AC. Anyway I purchased her a lady drink and bought myself a further non alcoholic.

I felt a little bit down after my not very auspicious start to the bar scene in AC, went back to the hotel alone and slept soundly. I need more time here really to understand the scene a bit better here, which is unlike anything I have experienced in the Philippines before. I only have a few hours spare this afternoon before I fly back to Cebu so I am going out this afternoon to have a last couple of hours bar hopping. If anything interesting happens I will post here![/QUOTE]Aloha and thanks for the report. Myself I don't worry about buying one regular drink for a girl while I interview them.

And then I figure out if they like boom boom. On the mens or if we might be compatable? To me the drink helps them and pays for some of their time with me and the fact I appreciate they are dancing. So I don't head trip on that. Its like my money up to roll the dice. But I don't let them get the high price drinks that some of them do. And then I do limit all the other friends that want a drink also.

Love angeles. Send me pm if you want to do some bar hop with another resident here. But tonight I will be going to subic. Plan only one night.

So I also met a hottie in genesis and felt some infatuation and? Emotionally attachment after having a drink with her.

She tell me she has mens. Ok its okay I like her and very interested in a long time bar fine and maybe even as a girlfriend.

So I bar fine her and take her home and no boom boom.

I think we made plans to be together after she is over her mens and I tell her I will take her to boracay or anywhere she wants to go? ?

Subic what ever.

I go back two days later to verify and get her again. I had been planning this to be with her for at least a few days a week or more if we were still compatable. Even sent some of my other girls out of town with some friends.

As I sit to talk to her and make further plans. She tells me."I feel sick and need to take some rest so I will not be at the bar for a few days".

And I ask her if she is going to see me? She say s no she can not see me if she not working because she get in trouble with mamason

Hahahahah. Silly me for thinking we had made some great plans and that I met a very nice and hot girl.

Yes she so nice and hot that she was probably only at the bar until over her mens and then go with a regular?

But she can not even tell me the truth of course.

So yes I felt dejected and rejected and its funny but my feelings were hurt.

Yes vicious circle. The girls get hurt. And if we take a girl seriously then we get hurt. So keep it all for fun and don't worry.

But then the girl that told you about infections. Yes I estimate 50 % of girls have something. And most guys will not talk about it.

My girl with mens I also had complete check up with my doctor and she was okay so I was so excited that I knew she had no infection and that I thought when she was over mens then we would have a great time.

Don't want to beat a dead horse but the infections in angeles are interesting. I wear a raincoat or get the girl checked. A.

I have several doctor contacts to make it safer. The city health here does a very poor job.

Anyway off to subic for the night

[QUOTE=Mortman;1180032]I felt a little bit down after my not very auspicious start to the bar scene in AC, went back to the hotel alone and slept soundly. I need more time here really to understand the scene a bit better here, which is unlike anything I have experienced in the Philippines before. I only have a few hours spare this afternoon before I fly back to Cebu so I am going out this afternoon to have a last couple of hours bar hopping. If anything interesting happens I will post here![/QUOTE]It's karma. You did so well with the mother and two daughters that karma is getting even. ;)

Slim