Liljoey please come to the rescue!
Ok so far I have stated I wish to visit Kiev for a new location and beautiful Russian and ukranian girls as a change to fkk land. In order to make the trip worthwhile I have come to the conclusion that 7 nights with 7 take outs for 3 hours at Rio would be the way to go.
Rio for its convenience and ease for a first time visitor to Kiev and hot babes. I am a mature student in the uk and before embarking on such a trip I have to account for and budget for every last dollar or uah I will spend. I do not have the luxury of being able to.
Throw an extra 100 dollars or 3 or 400 uah on unplanned expenses should they arise. For this reason I need to have a very clear idea of what I will or be expected to spend on extra's in Rio club. At the moment I have put aside a budget of around 50 dollars or approx.
500 uah to cover entrance, dance. One tip. 2 soft drinks. This times 7 visits to the club would amount to approx 350 dollars or around 200 pounds. This amount I can budget for and would deem acceptable for a few hours of fun in the club before I take a girl out.
However after reading some recent reports it seems you may need to tip 100 twice / buy girls drinks / possibly need to have more than one dance and that a drinks bill can reach 500/600 uah. Even though I don't drink alcohol the daily extra's total could easily be
Increased to 70 dollars into 7 visits this would amount 490 dollars or approx. 330 pounds. This is where the problem arises for me. Not only do I not have a budget to cover such an amount the whole economics of a visit to Kiev and Rio start not to add up when you
Break the costs down as compared to other destinations. I DO however want to visit Kiev and I DO love the Russian type girls AND there are dirt cheap flights from england. The advice I need from members especially liljoey is would my initial 50 dollar plan to include.
One 100 tip / one dance / entrance / soft drink not only work but be accepted by the management within Rio or even better is it possible to pay the entrance, have 1 or 2 soft drinks and take the girl of your choice out with NONE of the extras already mentioned.
Again a big thankyou for all feedback
Is it really that hopeless?
[QUOTE=Mohab; 1215256]Again I hope to visit Kiev in the hope of finding the most beautiful girls as a change to fkk world. My budget will not allow me to do a combination fkk / Kiev trip so I really want to get this right. Although my trip is a way off still as thanks I will report fully with info for 1st.
Time Kiev visitors as a thanks. There are some fine details which may seem trivial but will make a big difference as I plan this trip; ; ;
1) I have read of large bills of 500/600 just for drinks. I don't drink alcohol. Given I will be in the Rio club for 2/3 hours and assuming I will be taking a girl out will the following spend plan within the club be suitable for my time in there; entrance + 1 private dance +
100uah tip (is one tip enough to one manager?) +2 soft drinks. This would come to around 50 dollars per visit to the club. Also are the entrance fee / dance / drinks etc paid in dollars or uah?
2) for a 3 hour "take out" am I right in thinking you need to put 1 hour aside for travelling to and fro the club giving you 2 hours quality time with the girls?
3) would I look odd visiting the club 7 nights consecutively taking a girl out each night or is this normal with men on vacation and similar?
4) I have read some girls do not like walking in the kreshtacik road area due to police etc / most flats for rent are near this road / is this a problem or would you as a rule be getting a taxi to and from Rio?
5) finally I am planning 7 nights in Kiev does Rio have a lively atmosphere even on a Sunday / Monday / Tuesday as well as the weekends especially in relation to number of girls present?
6) many thanks mohab[/QUOTE]From the way you are writing and the simplistic questions you are asking, it seems that you have a difficulty assimilating the facts you know into a rational plan that incorporates adaptability to the known possible changing circumstances you might encounter. No amount of advice will assist you in actualizing a plan if you cannot adapt to the changing circumstances as they occur.
Bearing this in mind, there is a significant degree of likelihood that on some of the 7 nights of bliss that you are planning for in Rio, that you will fail to achieve your objective and will not take home a pretty girl from Rio those nights. Since you don't seem inclined to utilize the other alternatives in Kiev, this would likely mean no sex that day. It's hard to forecast what your Rio experience will be like, but this will be your first time, so plan to succeed, but be prepared for failure to occur sometimes, chiefly due to your seemingly rigid budgetary guidelines, and inability to see yourself adapting and deviating from those guidelines for the sake of scoring.
Mohab, you're not thinking clearly. You are proposing to go to Kiev and take girls from Rio on each of 7 consecutive nights at $300 a pop, and to spending no more than $50 (400 UAH) in Rio on the incidental other charges, because you consider bills of 500 or 600 UAH too large for your budget.
You seem to be aware that club admission is 100 UAH, that each private dance is 200 UAH, and that a tip to a manager should be 100 UAH. That's already the 400 UAH ($50) you have budgeted to allow yourself to spend, and you haven't even had a drink yet! But 500 UAH OR 600 UAH is too large a bill for your budget to accept. I assume you are aware of the likely cost of a soft drink or a juice or a tea or coffee or capuccino in the club might be anywhere between around $5 to $10, as you are not in a supermarket. So you will be in quite a quandary I suppose over whether to allow yourself to drink anything while you are there, or to exceed your budget and splurge on a Coca Cola.
But even assuming you can now see that your conclusion that 500 or 600 UAH is too large a bill for a night in Rio is a silly conclusion, although I have lost confidence that you will actually see this, what will happen if you want to see the line up in a different room where there is also another manager? I suppose you will have to not tip that second manager. And then what will happen if the girl asks for a drink? I suppose you will have to say "no" to her, because it will probably put your bill closer to 800 UAH or even 1000 UAH, and your budget simply won't allow that. So the girl will think you are a shit for not buying her a drink and she will certainly not go home with you.
Then since you have only budgeted for one private dance, you will not be able to have another private dance with a different girl, and you will have to invite the different girl to your table and speak to her quickly enough to be able to decide you like her and ask her to come home with you quickly enough so that she doesn't get the chance to ask you for a drink while in Rio. This is likely a disaster waiting to happen because you will not be availing yourself of the usual ways of checking out if a girl is good, since you are foregoing the private dance with her and you are hurrying the conversation to be able to get her to agree to come home with you before the issue of a drink for her comes up. This is not a relaxed and sensible way to choose a girl from whom you are trying to find out if she will be giving you a GFE experience. But who knows, you may have fool's luck on some of the nights and a good girl may fall into your lap.
Since it is not a guaranteed result that you will succeed in getting a good Rio girl to your apartment on all 7 nights, and because of the above considerations it is more than likely that you will not, it would seem even more important for a guy like you to listen to the advice about stopping off in cologne, germany on your way back from Kiev to london in order to even up the sex score and make up for any deficiencies that occurred in your Kiev trip in the arms of several fkk girls on that one day stop.
I must assume that before making your decision that your budget does not allow for an FKK stopover in Cologne Germany on your way back from Kiev to London, that you actually went on the websites for wizzair. Com and easyjet. Com and checked out the fare difference for your travel dates at the end of March 2012. If you had, you would have seen that it would involve less than an additional $50 in airfare to do the stop in Cologne. So it seems your inability to deviate from your budgetary decisions by even as little as $50 will again assure that you will fail to have even this final satisfaction of some good intensive fkk sex sessions, no matter what happens on your Kiev adventure.
Of course weekends are more lively than weeknights as in all the world over. Of course it takes time to travel from Rio to your apartment, so take a fucking taxi! What do you want the girl to do, walk a fucking half an hour in her high heels?
But the taxi from Rio will cost you 100 UAH. So there's your budget issue again. Maybe make an arrangement with a regular taxi driver to be your driver that you can call anytime at night if you need him, and then call and summon your own driver a few minutes before you are ready to leave Rio so he can be waiting at the nearby corner of the opera house for you and not directly in front of Rio so he doesn't get entangled with the taxi mafia in front of the club.
I could go on, but enough said.
You asked, is it normal to go to Rio for 7 consecutive nights in a row to take girls home for sex? Don't you know by now that none of us here on this board is normal? We are all sex mongers who enjoy fucking our way around different countries, so we would certainly be branded as deviates by the general population if they knew our purposes and intentions. Is it normal for a monger to go to Rio 7 nights in a row? But, of course! Welcome to the club!
LJ
Brilliant feedback liljoey
Firstly to nile for your strange comment yes I do seek alot of info on these boards but I would hardly call 4 trips to frankfurt / 1 to zurich / 1 to berlin / 1 to cologne and dusseldorf the dreamer or whatever it is you are trying to imply that I am.
Anyway liljoey I will attempt to give you some intelligent feedback on your comments. Firstly the reason I am being so precise about what I can and cannot spend in Rio is because as you know I am still hoping to do this trip around end of March / April so with all my
Savings I have an exact budget of 2600 pounds english. To cover daily living expenses / appartment rental 70us / nite / whizz air luton / and 7 loads of take out at Rio. The 50 dollar plan would be ideal but you mentioned a figure of 600 uah which I think I may just be able to.
Meet. This in itself is good news as the Rio expenses barrier may have caused me to forget Kiev altogether. Mamba for me is a definite no. Due to not knowing what may or may not arrive at my door and also telephone calls etc. I always like a set up where I can see.
The girls first then choose. The whole point of going to Kiev for me is to find a type of beauty not commonly found in fkk clubs and also the whole Kiev experience is quite adventurous for me. Anything less than 7 encounters would deem the trip uneconomical for me.
As 7 take outs by 2 hours of quality time with the babes equals 14 hours making the voyage to Kiev breakeven in terms of money invested versus quality time with the girls. Also the reason why I cannot do a whizz air to koln as a stopover is simply because I will just
Not have the energy to do such a stopover. A normal trip is tiring enough for me as I have been recovering from some medical problems the last few years.anything longer than one day or night in fkk land would cause my budget to go through the roof. For now there are just two issues I need some feedback on? Out of seven nights for what possible reason
Might I not be able to take a girl out if I have a nice attitude and dollars as you said I may not be able to meet my 7 night take out goal? Finally having explained that I am in Kiev for real Russian beauties and mamba is not for me other options such as dlux / buddabar.
Agencies such as gia etc. None of these offer the same bang for buck as Rio does in terms of girl beauty levels and price compared / ie 300 dollars or 200 pounds for 2-3 hours versus very high nightclub rates or girls that are not as attractive in the escort agencies.
To put it bluntly having studied this forum I have concluded Rio is by far the best place to go to in Kiev and that is my main reason for coming to Kiev. what other options would you seriously consider LJ? (with relations to making it 6 nites instead of 7 i could do 6 nites with one of them being an allniter for 400 hence saving 200 dollars for drinks etc on other nites?)
A Monger's Best Way to Spend 2600 GBP (approx $4140 USD)?
[QUOTE=Mohab; 1215592]Firstly to nile for your strange comment yes I do seek alot of info on these boards but I would hardly call 4 trips to frankfurt / 1 to zurich / 1 to berlin / 1 to cologne and dusseldorf the dreamer or whatever it is you are trying to imply that I am.
Anyway liljoey I will attempt to give you some intelligent feedback on your comments. Firstly the reason I am being so precise about what I can and cannot spend in Rio is because as you know I am still hoping to do this trip around end of March / April so with all my
Savings I have an exact budget of 2600 pounds english. To cover daily living expenses / appartment rental 70us / nite / whizz air luton / and 7 loads of take out at Rio. The 50 dollar plan would be ideal but you mentioned a figure of 600 uah which I think I may just be able to.
Meet. This in itself is good news as the Rio expenses barrier may have caused me to forget Kiev altogether. Mamba for me is a definite no. Due to not knowing what may or may not arrive at my door and also telephone calls etc. I always like a set up where I can see.
The girls first then choose. The whole point of going to Kiev for me is to find a type of beauty not commonly found in fkk clubs and also the whole Kiev experience is quite adventurous for me. Anything less than 7 encounters would deem the trip uneconomical for me.
As 7 take outs by 2 hours of quality time with the babes equals 14 hours making the voyage to Kiev breakeven in terms of money invested versus quality time with the girls. Also the reason why I cannot do a whizz air to koln as a stopover is simply because I will just
Not have the energy to do such a stopover. A normal trip is tiring enough for me as I have been recovering from some medical problems the last few years. Anything longer than one day or night in fkk land would cause my budget to go through the roof. For now there are just two issues I need some feedback on? Out of seven nights for what possible reason
Might I not be able to take a girl out if I have a nice attitude and dollars as you said I may not be able to meet my 7 night take out goal? Finally having explained that I am in Kiev for real Russian beauties and mamba is not for me other options such as dlux / buddabar.
Agencies such as gia etc. None of these offer the same bang for buck as Rio does in terms of girl beauty levels and price compared / ie 300 dollars or 200 pounds for 2-3 hours versus very high nightclub rates or girls that are not as attractive in the escort agencies.
To put it bluntly having studied this forum I have concluded Rio is by far the best place to go to in Kiev and that is my main reason for coming to Kiev. What other options would you seriously consider LJ? (with relations to making it 6 nites instead of 7 I could do 6 nites with one of them being an allniter for 400 hence saving 200 dollars for drinks etc on other nites?) [/QUOTE]Mohab, when you engage in calculations of how to get the best cost per unit of fucking beauties, you have entered into one of my favorite areas (see my very first post) ___lol. I will entertain one more response on your particulars simply because a discussion of these details can open the eyes of some other newbies and will be informative to the members of the forum that don't know these facts and considerations thoroughly already.
So you say that your position is that it all begins with your calculation regarding the 7 nights of 2 hours of quality time with exceptional looking babes on a higher level of beauty than can be gotten in fkk land. We'll call this QFT = Quality Fucking Time. Ok? It's hard to get inside your head on this, but let's start with what you've said. You think that if you can get 14 hours of QFT it is worth it to you to spend the amount you estimated of ($300 x 7 =) $2100 for Rio "take out" costs, plus $350 ($50 x 7) you have allowed for incidental costs each night, for a total of $2450 USD (1540 GBP) for the 14 hours of QFT that week in Kiev, which is a rate of $175 USD / hour, or 110 GBP / hour. So this translates into you saying that, if you have to pay more than around $175 USD per hour (110 GBP per hour) for QFT, that it is not worth it to you.
To be quite honest, I don't think you will have any problem paying less than $175 USD per hour (110 GBP per hour) rates for great sex in Kiev. So stop worrying. At Rio, the rate is really $100 / hour, because it does not take an hour for the travel time. You anyway only need to exclude from the 3 hours the time taken to travel from Rio to your apartment, not the return trip. From the time of your departure from Rio with the girl, you should plan on being with her at your apartment within 10 minutes or less. That's all it should take by taxi to an apartment downtown, or to walk the block to your apartment if you rented nearby Rio. So if you considered it worthwhile to pay $350 you estimated for the girl when you thought you only had two hours with her, you should jump for joy to know that you have almost three hours with her for a cost outlay of what I estimate will more than likely be around $400 when you include the reasonable incidental expenses, which is around $133 / hour. That is $50 less than the $175 / hour you were happy paying for the 2 hours QFT as above.
But let's look at why you are so concerned with your budget that you seem willing to fuck up your whole Rio experience because you don't want to buy any girl a drink, or you don't want to pay for more than one private dance, or tip more than one manager. Is this ridiculous behavior really necessary because of your budget concerns? Let's take a look.
Other trip costs: We must add the costs for the Wizzair. Com flights from london at the end of March 2012, which if you go Thurs March 22 for example, and return Wednesday March 28 or Friday, March 30, can be booked currently for 90. 78 GBP ($154. 06). Add their 20 euro charge each way for 1 checked bag, so an additional 40 Euro is $55 USD. A person on a strict budget should be able to eat for less than $50 / day, so let's allocate another $350 for food for 7 days of the week. You have stated that your apartment rental will cost you $70 USD per night, which I assume you have researched and confirmed, so that adds ($70 x 7 =) $490 USD to the costs. [For the purposes of this comment, I shall assume that you have taken the good advice to rent an apartment near enough to Rio so that you can walk there and more importantly it is close enough to walk back with the girl in her high heels, to avoid having to deal with the taxi expenses, since your budget concerns are driving your decisions, and this would be what a person on a budget would try to do]. So since you will be mostly walking around Kiev downtown, we really should only allocate $50 total for taxis, which will be enough to cover your taxi to and from the airport (Zhulyany airport is very close to Kiev, not like Borispil which is 45 minute ride from Kiev) , and any other incidental taxis you might take. [You should get the number of a few reputable taxi companies in Kiev that have someone on phone who speaks English, and you will get much lower taxi prices that just flagging a taxi on the street. Locals only take taxis they order. Watch the Rio girls when they want to go home from your apartment, and see who they call. Better ask your apartment rental agency to give you the number of some reputable taxi companies you can call. ]
So for the "other expenses" I get a total of $155 airfare + $55 baggage charges + $350 food + $500 apartment + $50 taxis = $1110 USD (697 GBP). Adding this $1110 amount for other expenses to the $2450 of girl costs for QFT, totals $3560 USD, or a total of 2236 GBP. You said you have 2600 GBP at your disposal, so you have an extra 364 GBP according to the foregoing.
What expenses did I leave out? What am I missing, mohab? It seems like you have an extra 364 GBP ($580 USD) in your budget to allocate. That's plenty of money in your budget for all the incidental expenses necessary for proper mongering in Rio, including buying girls drinks as necessary, tipping the managers as necessary if you need to sit in different rooms to see the line ups there, and having whatever additional private dances as may be necessary, in case the one you dance with first doesn't end up being the right girl, or refuses to go home with you. For you to feel you don't want to take these necessary actions to monger successfully at Rio is foolish. For you to consider giving up on going to Kiev, as you wrote above, if it is necessary to spend a little extra than the minimum you estimated and to take these actions in order to be successful, is doubly foolish. What is the reason you seem willing to fuck up your whole Rio experience by limiting necessary mongering expenses? It's like sending a surgeon in to do an operation without his equipment. (Ok, its not like a surgeon__LOL). But why is this ridiculous behavior necessary for you? It's clearly not required by budget concerns according to the above expense analysis.
You need to get it into your head that you MUST BE FLEXIBLE! That means you must be prepared to do private dances with [U]as many girls as it takes [/U]to find the girl you want to take home. Likewise, you must be prepared to buy her a drink if a situation arises in which if you don't buy her a drink she will think poorly of you, such as when she directly asks you to buy her a drink. The only graceful ways out that I thought of, is for you to be able to say at that moment,"would you like to go for a private dance, or have a drink instead?" [you can say this if you haven't gone for the private dance and you wanted to have one with her. ]. Most likely she will opt for the dance which earns her money. Or you can say,"why don't we not waste time here in the club, and instead let's go back to my apartment where I have drinks there we can enjoy." But you can only say this to a girl that you have already decided you want, and she has already said she does go out with customers. (and you'd better have something she likes to drink on hand at your apartment, or be ready to go with her in a taxi to the supermarket to buy something on the way to your apartment if this is your course). But If the drink for the girl comes up before that option develops, you will get stuck buying her a Baileys Irish Cream or some other girly drink whatever its cost. So you should prepare yourself to make the decision when and if it comes up, to either buy her the drink, or say no and to be ready to dismiss her, or tell her you need to go to the bathroom and will speak to her later, which is more graceful as an exit strategy. This drink issue may happen with more than one girl that you interview. So my point here is that you need to be prepared to buy a drink for more than one girl you may speak to. It won't happen every time, but it may happen sometimes. You should go into Rio with the intent to make the best decisions based on mongering considerations of getting the best girl, not on the budget concerns you express, since I've shown you above you may not have calculated the budget concerns correctly.
I am happy you see the sense of giving up on one night of the 7 nights of take out from Rio, so that the extra $350 to $400 that would have been spent on that night at Rio can be applied toward the incidental expenses on the other 6 nights at Rio, and so to relax the budgetary constrictions that were threatening to strangle your mongering experience at Rio. But your idea of doing an all night session for $400 and having some extra hours with a girl you like on one of those 6 nights is a good idea too. However, in the end based on my budget analysis, I don't believe it is necessary to give up one of the 7 nights for budget reasons since I calculated that you have an extra 364 GBP ($580 USD) in your budget to allocate towards girl drinks, private dances or tips, unless there are other expenses that I haven't taken into account.
Here are some other points of disagreement with your calculations:
1. I agree with you about mamba. Ru having the disadvantage of not being able to see in advance, but once the girl shows up you will see her, and if she's not good enough you can send her away. The problem here is not the not seeing her aspect, it is the time waste in doing this multiple times until you get to the girl who is good enough. And by many reports the guys on this forum are getting some hot girls this way. They are not all going to be way better than girls at the fkk's, but some will be as good, and the cost of 600 UAH ($75) or 800 UAH ($100) per hour is far below the cost unit that you appear to have stated you consider worth it to spend for QFT of $175 / hour, so it is definitely something to consider for sex during the daytime hours, as I have written many times. Remember, time waste is an entirely relative term. Since you are not going to be doing anything else for mongering during the daytime, since Rio is closed, as are the other nightclubs, and you've indicated you're not going to roam the streets, malls and shops to hit on girls for freebies, so what is the time waste? If you are sleepy, by all means sleep. But if you are up during part of the daytime, why not learn to mamba? __LOL.
2. What you say about stopping in cologne germany for a daytime romp in the fkk's there will send your budget through the roof, I disagree with. The flights on wizzair from Kiev zhulyany to cologne take off at 6am in the morning. The easyjet flights to london take off from cologne at around 9pm in between flights during that day, you have ample time for a foray into fkk land nearby. There is no overnight necessary, so no hotel cost. It's purely a daytime fkk excursion for one day. The cost for the extra easyjet flight with 1 bag checked is around $50. The sex costs in fkk's are well known to you. In the Cologne area the costs are lower than Frankfurt area for multiple hour sessions (check Hessen Bub's posting on rates in that thread). But even assuming a 75 euro admission, plus 50 Euro per half hour sessions, you can nail at least three girls for 225 euro ($305) during that afternoon, and go home with a smile on your face, in case you didn't get all you wanted in Kiev. So I would recommend that you consider replacing the 7th night of chasing tail in Rio, with a foray in fkk land costing around $355 ($305 fkk costs+ $50 flight) , which is a little less than what that one night in Rio will cost. It is certainly not correct to say that it would increase your budget to send it through the roof. The reason for you especially to consider doing this fkk adjustment to your plan, is that you may well not achieve the glorious results you hope for in Rio, and at least in fkk land you know how to achieve a satsifying end to your costly vacation.
Of course what you write about recovering from medical condition, such that you may not be physically up to fucking a few girls in one day in an fkk, I can have no comment on, but I wonder then about the wisdom of you going to Rio for 7 comnsecutive nights in order to spend all night fucking gorgeous 20 year olds from there in Kiev. Don't endanger your health because of budgetary concerns. Maybe consider spacing out your nights in Rio to every other night or do two nights then skip a night.
3. You may not like the Gia prices for one hour sessions at $180, but when it comes to 3 hour sessions, for some girls the prices are comparable to Rio. So take a hard look at the model's pictures, as there may be a few that can make the grade for you, and the service is GFE uncovered blowjobs with some of the girls as stated in the girl's profile on their website, which at Rio always remains a question. For the same reason, do not write off Buddha Bar girls, because you may be able to get some of them for $300 for two hours, and stipulate that it is two hours of time at the apartment, excluding travel time, which will be the same effective rate you are paying at Rio, and less because there would be no private dances or managers to tip etc.
4. You ask why I wrote you will fail to succeed in getting your dream girl 7 nights in a row from Rio? Because I failed many times, and many veterans failed, and we all failed sometimes at Rio. And that's people who have a lot of common sense and intuition about mongering in all sorts of situations and environments. Don't forget, you are not going to a candy shop to buy some candy. You are going after the most difficult creature to understand for a man, and by that I mean a woman. And to the foregoing difficulties, you must add the fact that you are truly a newbie and you display many of the traits of a newbie who just won't be able to understand until you have cut your teeth on the thing and had some actual experience. And I felt that you were also likely to fail on some nights because you were stacking the deck against yourself by predetermining that you were not going to do the helpful things that guys do in Rio to succeed because of some of your budget concerns, so you were going to exacerbate the problems you will have there. So statistically speaking I felt you will likely fail some of the nights. But any man who is experienced in going after women knows that failure is part of the process, and what you do when you fail is try to learn from it, and go forward from there. Don't get too upset about it. It's no big deal. It happens to all of us guys. And you keep at it until you succeed.
So the other alternatives to recommend to you are to revisit your previous conclusions through the eyes of the above analysis and you will find there the opportunities for a lot of fun that you have dismissed from consideration upon what I believe to be mistaken premises.
Now go and read Latexian's advice on how to handle yourself with the girls over and over again until you have memorized it and it is part of you, because i endorse every word, although if you refuse to buy a girl you like at Rio a drink because it is not within your budget there is no advice that can help.
LJ
