General Info

[QUOTE=Madisonguy;1181132]. I would think a catholic asian country like Philippines would be best for a blonde white guy. I certainly have not found better in my travels. .[/QUOTE]Hate to be the geography teach here but lets see, how many Catholic Asian countries are there. Lets start at the top, Japan no Korea no, China no HK no Singapore Malaysia vietnam, Lao, Myanmar, Indonesia, Brunei no. Hmm maybe I missed a few countries but I think theres only one catholic asian country.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1186162]Hate to be the geography teach here but lets see, how many Catholic Asian countries are there. Lets start at the top, Japan no Korea no, China no HK no Singapore Malaysia vietnam, Lao, Myanmar, Indonesia, Brunei no. Hmm maybe I missed a few countries but I think theres only one catholic asian country.[/QUOTE]East Timor

Wow what a sad story but at least the girl tried to make the most out of that situation!

The guy is just a Micheal Jordan in Asia!

I used to be the Michael Jordan but I slowed down a bit!

[QUOTE=Devils 1; 1179876]Just when you think you've heard it all you run into a new Filipina and she tells you a story that blows your mind! I have been dating this girl recently, and true to form she brings all of her friends along for me to meet and buy a free meal. Well one night she brings a friend along that is so beautiful that I can't believe my eyes. The girl is educated, sweet and very fun and comes from a good family. Of course the conversation with these girls always goes in one of two directions; why my family is so poor or how this guy fucked me over. With this girl I knew her family was very good so I wasn't surprised to hear that some guy fucked her over so badly. The girl is beautiful enough to be a model or movie star. Then she goes on to tell me he was a western guy. And I would be willing to bet he is reading this right now. So here goes.

She was a normal girl in the province, going to college, and she decides to look for a mature, honest and successful guy on line. She meets a great guy from a western country, for over a year they talk and get to know each other, then he finally visits her several times in the course of a couple years. After the proper amount of time her and her family get comfortable with their daughter moving a very long way to get married and start a family. Well she is not in the new country very long before she starts to smell a rat. (we have all heard this story before, but read on it gets way better) The guy works a lot of hours and thinks it is better to go get drunk with his friends every night after work rather than going home to bang his 20 yr old 90 pound, model looking fiance. Now at this point she tells me when he would come to the phils to visit her for months on end, he would always go travelling around the islands. Without her! Strike 1.

Now that she is finally living in his country, the guy has decided that it is time for him to go travelling again. In the Phils, without her! Strike 2. Well you know these Filipina girls are like miniature detectives. She starts digging in his passport and other travel papers before he leaves the country. She discovers this guy has been cutting a path through Asia as wide as the Jap army during world war 2. If you've read about pussy for sale on this forum in any Asian country this guy has visited the country and stayed there for several weeks. How he is spending his time and amusing himself while there we do not know, yet! Keep in mind this is a 20 yr old girl just off the boat from the province, living in an all white country and she has no idea about things like mongering! About this time, the guy is out of the country, she starts to talk to the girls down at work about her future husband being out of the country. She is bored and has no friends other than the girls at work. Well the girls at work start to slowly ask her questions about where he is at and what does he do for so long when he's gone? So the detectives magnifying glass comes out and she starts digging in his computer and old dating sites. Well the guy is keeping contact on these dating sites with 100's of girls all over Asia. She finds pics of him in exotic locations with different girls doing a lot of different things. And I don't mean buying t-shirts! Slowly she is starting to realize the guy was not only visiting the Phils and her, he was going to 2-3 other countries before or after he visited her!

So here is the defining moment. She finds a list with all of these different girls names on it, most of the names so exotic that she can't even pronounce them. She rolls through the list (which takes a long time, because it is a long list) and her name is on the list. At number 2237!

Now when she told me that my mouth almost fell to the floor. But then she says to me with a completely straight face, what could this be a list of and how could there be 2236 before me! I laughed so loud they almost kicked me out of the restaurant. I didn't have the heart or the desire to tell her it has to be a score card. At any rate, when you think you have seen it all there is always someone out there with a crazier story than yours.

If you're curious she confronted him when he returned with all of the evidence. He denied it but it didn't matter. She moved out, kept her job and stayed in the country for several years. She recently returned to Manila and has setup several small businesses with relatives using all of the money she made overseas.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cbea20;1186400]East Timor[/QUOTE]Wel done, full marks for spotting that. Mind, if you look at ISG reports on Est Timor theres some slim pickings. So I guess Philipines it is for the cat o lick stuff.

For various reasons I am seriously considering bringing my ph gf to Australia on a temporary visitor visa for 3 months.

Has any member gone through this process and is it easy?

Any advice would be most welcome.

[QUOTE=Python75; 1188803]For various reasons I am seriously considering bringing my ph gf to Australia on a temporary visitor visa for 3 months.

Has any member gone through this process and is it easy?

Any advice would be most welcome.[/QUOTE]This is not directly related to your post and does not answer the question you have posed, but in a way it is linked and is an interesting story in itself. I am currently working in South East Europe in the only country in Europe that does not have a visa regime, basically anyone can enter the country provided they have the means to support themselves during their stay. There are only a handful of Filipinas working here, typically employed in domestic positions and I have got to know one quite intimately. She works for one of the richest men in Europe and the guy has a number of other Filipina staff working for him. She has been trying to get a friend from Manila to come and work here as they are short of staff at the moment.

The first time her friend tried to leave Manila on an international flight, the Philippine Immigration Officers removed her and prevented her from leaving because she did not have enough funds to show she could support herself. She had told the immigration officers that she was going on a vacation to meet her old friends rather than tell them the truth that she was going there for work.

She tried a second time some months later, having borrowed money to show Philippines Immigration officers that she had the financial means, but this time she found she was blacklisted and not allowed to leave again, despite being in possession of flight tickets. It seems this obsession with people trafficking, continually propogated by NGOs and other organizations has led to a complete lack of objectivity by the Immigration authorities in the Philippines. I am sure had she offered the immigration officer a big fat bribe of say 10, 000. 20, 000 he may have allowed her through, but that method is also not a guarantee of success.

Incidentally I have a friend from New Zealand who was working here as a very well paid consultant. He brought a Cambodian bar girl on his last visit here as a companion for his two month assignment and as I said before a visa is not required here. They were taking a connecting flight in Germany and his companion was given an extremely hard time by immigration officials there, who questioned his girl at length about the purpose of her visit. Had my friend not actually been accompanying her, he felt it was very doubtful that she would have been allowed to continue her journey.

Since P4P is virtually non existent where I am, I was thinking before of importing my own companion from the Philippines. However even if the girl has an official invitation letter from me and proof of my financial status and ability to support her, I am doubtful whether she would even reach the border here and I have sadly abandoned the idea for now.

[QUOTE=Mortman;1188850]Since P4P is virtually non existent where I am, I was thinking before of importing my own companion from the Philippines. However even if the girl has an official invitation letter from me and proof of my financial status and ability to support her, I am doubtful whether she would even reach the border here and I have sadly abandoned the idea for now.[/QUOTE]Actually, the same govt of Phil has also indirectly helped legalise the proper 'export' of labour, as long as a few fees are paid, no sir, not bribe, but FEES.

PM and let me give you a run down on how it works, as living in Singapore, we do have issues, when we try to bring in legal workers, for short contract, or on approval basis, while Singapore MOM completes the paperwork.

Single Filipino and Thai women are basically blacklisted in almost all western countries because there has been such a high percentage of them in the past travelling on a tourist visa for 3 months, then skipping their visa. Two years later they turn up on the door of the local welfare agency with two kids in tow, no husband. And claiming welfare.

So it is much more complex to get one into Australia.

This is what you need:

1. Complete and lodge an application for a visitor visa for her. For pinay this must be done in hard copy. All other countries do it online. There is a balancing act between your necessity to buy her a ticket in advance, and the date by which a visa can be approved and issued.

2. A round trip ticket, with duration say no more than 3 months.

3. A Statutory Declaration signed by a Justice of the Peace stating who you are, your passport number, address. Your employer if you have one. State that you have known miss X for XXX months or years, that you have a budding relationship, and you want to bring her to Australia to explore your futures together. State that you accept responsibility for her. Provide all transport, accommodation, food, living necessities. State that you take responsibility that she will depart within the time period of her visa. I accompany this with a scan of my passport. You may need to include a statement of the funds that you have at your disposal.

4. You scan the declaration. Send the declaration to her so that she has a coloured version, including the stamp by the JP.

5 You also must fax the declaration to her because the fax cannot be digitally altered.

6 She needs to have enough money with her to get her to Australia.

7 She needs to have with her any voucher that you have for hotel accommodation, or statement that you will meet her at the airport.

I think that is all.

If you plan for her to stay longer, then you may need to apply for a sponsored visitor visa. This comes with the requirement for you to lodge a surety with the Dept of Immigration. If she skips her visa, you lose your money. May be from $10, 000 to $50, 000.

I think that is about it.

G

[QUOTE=Econo Tech; 1188853]Actually, the same govt of Phil has also indirectly helped legalise the proper 'export' of labour, as long as a few fees are paid, no sir, not bribe, but FEES.

PM and let me give you a run down on how it works, as living in Singapore, we do have issues, when we try to bring in legal workers, for short contract, or on approval basis, while Singapore MOM completes the paperwork.[/QUOTE]The same Philippines government in conspiracy (oops in diplomatic agreement with Taiwanese authorities) are making it a bureaucratic nightmare to bring people in. Ok the two government had a spat earlier this year but now the requirements are mad.

In order to get a resident permit one is required to get ones marriage cert notarised in the country in which you were married. If you were married in Buenos Airies for instance you got to take a trip there. Having done that the birth certs of both parties must be duly notiarised in the country of birth. Then, the Pilipino must get NBI clearance (to prove no criminal record). In order to get that the birth cert must be notarised by Philippines and Taiwan authorities. A voters certificate must be obtained. Then can apply for NBI clearance (think 2500 people every day applying with not a lot of shade, the line starts at about 4am) then have said NBI clearance notarised by Philippines and Taiwan authorities. Only then you can think about applying for said residence permit. They have made it incredibly difficult by choice as punishment for Philippimnes wrongly sending some Taiwanese criminals to China and not back to Taiwan. Governments!

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1191508]Then can apply for NBI clearance (think 2500 people every day applying with not a lot of shade, the line starts at about 4am) then have said NBI clearance notarised by Philippines and Taiwan authorities. Only then you can think about applying for said residence permit. They have made it incredibly difficult by choice as punishment for Philippimnes wrongly sending some Taiwanese criminals to China and not back to Taiwan. Governments![/QUOTE]No. You can always engage an 'agency' and pay 2 months of 3 months of the salary of the worker (well, when they are on six month contract, the Filipino thinking is. He is getting rich, so can afford to pay, so steal half his heard earned pay) and cut short the paper work / time spent, and agencies get it done in 1 week.

BTW, in this country, where they do all kind of IT work, wonder why they can't get a one-stop clearence place? Money my friend, money.

Gloria bashers forgot that GMA made it easier for workers to go abroad. One of the first thing that PNoy did was to rescind that order, and bring back 'normalcy' so his cronies running agencies and all can be back to minting money. And if anybody refuses, call them as '[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] victims. '

BTW, there was some picture of P Noy in Angeles, before his election: and a dozen girls around him. I wonder if the girls were for only photo-op, or.

Back to my hole now. LOL

PS: Rant mode off.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1191508]The same Philippines government in conspiracy (oops in diplomatic agreement with Taiwanese authorities) are making it a bureaucratic nightmare to bring people in. Ok the two government had a spat earlier this year but now the requirements are mad.[/QUOTE]Are you referring to the 'protocol' following filipinos deporting Taiwanese to China? After all, all are Chinese, right?

It's the same govt who refuse to apologies to HK for the bus drama, heck, even going to on to stay that the gunman should apologies. And the head says "I am not responsible, I didn't shoot."

[QUOTE=Econo Tech; 1191603]Are you referring to the 'protocol' following filipinos deporting Taiwanese to China? After all, all are Chinese, right?

It's the same govt who refuse to apologies to HK for the bus drama, heck, even going to on to stay that the gunman should apologies. And the head says "I am not responsible, I didn't shoot."[/QUOTE]Yes I am. 2 idiots in Philppines Immigration deported the 14 Taiwanese criminals to China in the middle of he night thinking no one would notice. Now we all suffer as a results of new " rules" that the Taiwanese impose in order to let the Philippines knows that its the dog that wags the tail and not vica versa. Under the employment rules of the Civil Service in Philippines, the idiots can't even be sacked. Instead were assigned to other duties.

Just did a booking of a CP flight. Coming to the payment I used my CC from HSBC Philippines, didn't expect any problem. Ooooops, payment declined.

Then tried it again with HSBC card here from Malaysia, no problem at all. Payment done and got itenary.

Now suddenly they prefer foreign CCs after many of you reported refusals?

Cheers!

[QUOTE=Ekspat; 1191918]Just did a booking of a CP flight. Coming to the payment I used my CC from HSBC Philippines, didn't expect any problem. Ooooops, payment declined.

Then tried it again with HSBC card here from Malaysia, no problem at all. Payment done and got itenary.

Now suddenly they prefer foreign CCs after many of you reported refusals?

Cheers![/QUOTE]Card handling / rejection is the prerogative of the payment gateway. Not the airline.

[QUOTE=Ekspat; 1191918]Just did a booking of a CP flight. Coming to the payment I used my CC from HSBC Philippines, didn't expect any problem. Ooooops, payment declined.

Then tried it again with HSBC card here from Malaysia, no problem at all. Payment done and got itenary.

Now suddenly they prefer foreign CCs after many of you reported refusals?

Cheers![/QUOTE]Hi Eks. Your not alone in having cards rejected. I can't get my HSBC HK, my HSBC Manila, my HSBC Taiwan to work in booking CP. Have to use an agent who suprise suprise has a "service fee".

[QUOTE=Ekspat; 1191918]Just did a booking of a CP flight. Coming to the payment I used my CC from HSBC Philippines, didn't expect any problem. Ooooops, payment declined.

Then tried it again with HSBC card here from Malaysia, no problem at all. Payment done and got itenary.

Now suddenly they prefer foreign CCs after many of you reported refusals?

Cheers![/QUOTE]I too just bought a ticket recently on Cebu Pacific using my Visa card issued from an American bank, and I had no problems making the purchase. In the past they wouldn't accept this same card. Perhaps they have improved their God-awful website? I noticed the purchase was "Verified by Visa", which meant I had to imput a password to authorize the transaction, I guess.

Looking at my itinerary now, I must say some of the extra fees they charge on top of the fare price seem kind of silly. Flying from Korea to the Phils, the fuel surcharge is about $36, so I guess that's ok, but there is also a Passenger Service charge of $28, a Web Admin fee of $8, and the most ridiculous, a Seat Selection fee of $12. And I'm traveling "lite", so no checked-in baggage allowed; that would've been extra too. I would say that around 40% of the actual fare I paid is just for taxes and fees. Still a decent price, but don't be fooled by how low their promo deals are.

[QUOTE=Ezinho;1192269]and the most ridiculous, a Seat Selection fee of $12. And I'm traveling "lite", so no checked-in baggage allowed; that would've been extra too. I would say that around 40% of the actual fare I paid is just for taxes and fees. Still a decent price, but don't be fooled by how low their promo deals are.[/QUOTE]Not just 5J (Cebu pac) but, even for 3K (Jetstar) and even Tiger, and almost all LCCs, the seat selection has a little disclaimer: Seat selection is an indication of customer preference, and is not guaranteed, in case of equipment change.

In other words, if the airline switches the plane or merges two flights into one, you loose out your seat selection, and no refund for giving you hope. That goes for the 'premium' Windows seats as well.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1192170]I can't get my HSBC HK, my HSBC Manila, my HSBC Taiwan to work in booking CP.[/QUOTE]Hi FF,

But my Malaysian HSBC card worked perfectly well, while the card HSBC Manila was rejected. Somehow I would have expected it vice versa.

Cheers!

I've been trying to book several hotels for February before I book my ticket and I'm glad I've tried. Most places I want, like eurotel, blue rock, hana hotel, and royal amsterdam were already booked for the date and room that I wanted. I know that January and February are the busiest months of the year, but is March just as busy? If I can't book all the rooms I would like then I was thinking of moving my dates to March. Is that any better at all? Or Just as busy in Angeles, Subic and Manila?

I'm finally able to make it back in February but I will wait and see if I can get the rooms I want for my small budget.

Why would you have expected that outcome? I don't have a HSBC card, but don't understand the point / logic.

[QUOTE=Ekspat; 1192615]Hi FF,

But my Malaysian HSBC card worked perfectly well, while the card HSBC Manila was rejected. Somehow I would have expected it vice versa.

Cheers![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Kycuriosity; 1193086]I've been trying to book several hotels for February before I book my ticket and I'm glad I've tried. Most places I want, like eurotel, blue rock, hana hotel, and royal amsterdam were already booked for the date and room that I wanted. I know that January and February are the busiest months of the year, but is March just as busy? If I can't book all the rooms I would like then I was thinking of moving my dates to March. Is that any better at all? Or Just as busy in Angeles, Subic and Manila?

I'm finally able to make it back in February but I will wait and see if I can get the rooms I want for my small budget.[/QUOTE]I think you maybe too early for their reservation system. I have been trying to book air tickets and alot of the airlines won't let you book until a certain date before departure. Are you on the hotel website or aogda. Asiarooms one of those. It could be saying not available because they haven't opened up those dates yet. For the smaller hotels I would call them.

[QUOTE=Devils 1;1194472]I think you maybe too early for their reservation system. I have been trying to book air tickets and alot of the airlines won't let you book until a certain date before departure. Are you on the hotel website or aogda. Asiarooms one of those. It could be saying not available because they haven't opened up those dates yet. For the smaller hotels I would call them.[/QUOTE]I tried booking the Combo flight / hotel on Expedia first because I wanted the travel insurance they offer. I also tried Agoda on most of the hotels that are online just to see if they were available for my dates. I emailed Hana hotel about features of the delux room and they informed me they fill up fast at that time and to book several months ahead of time. I guess I will give it a few weeks and see what happens. Thank you for the info. In February I planned on 2 days in manila. 3 days in Subic. 3 days in Angeles, One day in Manila and then back to Angeles for 5 days, finally finishing with 2 days in Manila. Yes, a lot of traveling but I will be with different people during different times there. I like switching things up a bit during all my stays. I don't want to stay in one place too long, even if I leave and come back, that is preferable to me.

Does anyone have a preference in Travel Insurance? Do most people get it, or ignore it? I'm coming from the US.

[QUOTE=Kycuriosity;] 1194601Does anyone have a preference in Travel Insurance? Do most people get it, or ignore it?[/QUOTE]Depends entirely on your risk profile. Young, fit, cashed up and not into suicidal sports? Probably you can get away with out insurance. Older gentlemen with health issues may be wise way to avoid a very expensive or very uncomfortable experience. Personally I self insure but as I get older I guess the odds are starting to stack on me that I may need sudden medical help in a strange land some day.

AV

Does anyone have a preference in Travel Insurance? Do most people get it, or ignore it? I'm coming from the US.[/QUOTE]Try the lonely planets guide insurance they give good rates, what I could see

[QUOTE=X Man;1193799]Why would you have expected that outcome? I don't have a HSBC card, but don't understand the point / logic.[/QUOTE]Hi X!

As far as I know, CP is Philippine based, so I expected the card issued in the Philippines would work better than a card issued abroad.

Cheers!

[QUOTE=Ekspat; 1195438]Hi X!

As far as I know, CP is Philippine based, so I expected the card issued in the Philippines would work better than a card issued abroad.

Cheers![/QUOTE]Yah, but the payment gateway is NOT PHIL based. Heck, even their reservation is not their own, as is the norm with LCCs.

[QUOTE=Kycuriosity; 1193086]I've been trying to book several hotels for February before I book my ticket and I'm glad I've tried. Most places I want, like eurotel, blue rock, hana hotel, and royal amsterdam were already booked for the date and room that I wanted. I know that January and February are the busiest months of the year, but is March just as busy? If I can't book all the rooms I would like then I was thinking of moving my dates to March. Is that any better at all? Or Just as busy in Angeles, Subic and Manila?

I'm finally able to make it back in February but I will wait and see if I can get the rooms I want for my small budget.[/QUOTE]I don't know the specific dates you are looking for, but the CNY is in FEB this year and that causes a lot of travel in the area. Not the Chinese, but ex-pats on holiday as well. Just a thought.

Sky

[QUOTE=Sky Ryder; 1195445]I don't know the specific dates you are looking for, but the CNY is in FEB this year and that causes a lot of travel in the area. Not the Chinese, but ex-pats on holiday as well. Just a thought.

Sky[/QUOTE]I believe CNY is Jan 23 in 2012.

This is a duplicate post to one in 'Other Areas' but I don't see any discussion of Boracay there since 2009. I'm not sure anyone will see it there. I apologize in advance for repeating myself.

It's beginning to look like the girl I had planned to take to Boracay in October is going to crap out. Not sure what's going on, but she has disappeared. And she's counting on me for college tuition. I suppose I should be worried, and I am a little, but my main problem now is a prepaid airfare and hotel reservation in Boracay.

There hasn't been a report for some time here. Anyone got up-to-date information on the scene on Boracay? What are my chances of finding some professional assistance for my problem? I saw a couple of references to a bar called Cocomangos (or something like that) where FL were available two years ago. I know the main advice is to bring your own, and I'm working on that, but just in case. Any suggestions?

My fiance has disappeared. I left her with 3K US for the interview, medical, and visa process. Now I am back to mongering. It is better to know this now. Rather than have her here and cost lots more. As they say in th ebig city. NEXT

[QUOTE=Redman69;1195615]My fiance has disappeared. I left her with 3K US for the interview, medical, and visa process.NEXT[/QUOTE] Why don´t you post some photos, her name and where she is from.

[QUOTE=Redman69;1195615]My fiance has disappeared. I left her with 3K US for the interview, medical, and visa process. Now I am back to mongering. It is better to know this now. Rather than have her here and cost lots more. As they say in th ebig city. NEXT[/QUOTE]I agree. If she burned you for that much then post her photos, yahoo and all information. That way maybe someone else won't get burned!

[QUOTE=Redman69;1195615]My fiance has disappeared. I left her with 3K US for the interview, medical, and visa process. Now I am back to mongering. It is better to know this now. Rather than have her here and cost lots more. As they say in th ebig city. NEXT[/QUOTE]Consider it a very cheap lesson. You don't even want to know what my divorce cost. Live and learn.

[QUOTE=Redman69;1195615]My fiance has disappeared. I left her with 3K US for the interview, medical, and visa process. Now I am back to mongering. It is better to know this now. Rather than have her here and cost lots more. As they say in th ebig city. NEXT[/QUOTE]Look for dragonladies. Org or something like that. Then you can post everything you know about her. Its really quite an interesting site. You wil see thousands of other guys who have all been scammed previously. So don't think bad about it. Go out and enjoy and soon she's but a distant bad memory.

[QUOTE=Titmouse; 1195523]T.

It's beginning to look like the girl I had planned to take to Boracay in October is going to crap out. Not sure what's going on, but she has disappeared. And she's counting on me for college tuition. I suppose I should be worried, and I am a little, but my main problem now is a prepaid airfare and hotel reservation in Boracay.[/QUOTE]She was counting on your for tution, but not to fuck you I guess. How to give you the pu$$why when her Boyfriend is probably humping her brains off. Unless you had offered to bring her bf also along (the bf masquerading as cousin)

Haha. No offense.

Well, bring your own to Bora, with the korean invasion, they can wipe out the bars pretty early.

[QUOTE=Slippery;1195677]Consider it a very cheap lesson. You don't even want to know what my divorce cost. Live and learn.[/QUOTE]You weren't too Slippery on that one ha? Been there done that and still paying for it.

I never got bad pictures. Would not post any how. Still love her. Just the idea of marriage is over.

I do not think she knew what she was doing. I can say I treated her as my wife from the day of the engagement party. Her standard of living went up. And I can afford the cost. But if you can not be trusted with a little then never alot. I am better off now knowing no doubt about it. And I wanted for her to marry me. Not a dream of utopia. I let her know me. She has decided that she did not want me.

Her visa is approved, But she wants out. I think she is being honest. I am happy to know now rather than as pointed out latter. All is good. Just my way of looking at things. I judge people by their intent. She did not go to the party with the intent to leave. She tried the bull and decided it was not for her. I am glad to have loved and lived. And to get back to the cheap pussy.

Her name is Ann from cebu. Not a working girl before, but maybe in the future. For her to decide not me. You all be good.

Next trip will be to Angeless city for sure. Take care Bro. S

[QUOTE=Redman69;1195927]I never got bad pictures[/QUOTE]A good one would do fine.

[QUOTE=Redman69; 1195927]I never got bad pictures. Would not post any how. Still love her. Just the idea of marriage is over.

I do not think she knew what she was doing. I can say I treated her as my wife from the day of the engagement party. Her standard of living went up. And I can afford the cost. But if you can not be trusted with a little then never alot. I am better off now knowing no doubt about it. And I wanted for her to marry me. Not a dream of utopia. I let her know me. She has decided that she did not want me.

Her visa is approved, But she wants out. I think she is being honest. I am happy to know now rather than as pointed out latter. All is good. Just my way of looking at things. I judge people by their intent. She did not go to the party with the intent to leave. She tried the bull and decided it was not for her. I am glad to have loved and lived. And to get back to the cheap pussy.

Her name is Ann from cebu. Not a working girl before, but maybe in the future. For her to decide not me. You all be good.

Next trip will be to Angeless city for sure. Take care Bro. S[/QUOTE]May not be the best advice here, but in a simple sentance : 'you are blinded by love and nuts'

When you start to justify the fuckup, that is the beginning of blindness. I been there enough times. And I used to conjure up excuses. Till it hit me. She has switched track means, she has switched track.

Happened to me twice: met a girl, upgraded her standard of living: next thing you know she doesn't want you, and she wants somebody of her age, not an old fart like you and me. And with her upgraded standard, a dozen and one kababayans are lining up to marry her. And take her overseas.

The type of girl who goes the whole nine yard and changes her mind is the one who never had commitment from the beginning.

Wow! We didn't see that train wreck coming 5 months ago. With an age difference of 34 years it was bound to be a match made in Heaven. She was pushing hard for marriage and recording your agreement and we know that Filipinas are known worldwide for their honesty and faithfulness. This is quite a shock! Filipinas don't usually run off with $3, 000 in cash. They never fleece foreigners and this behavior is very atypical. Surely she did not know what she was doing when her young pinoy boyfriend convinced her to use the dough to buy him Red Horse and shabu as he poked her silly in a humid bamboo shack. If she knew what she was doing, she certainly would not have left that resident visa on the table and a hell of a lot more than 3 grand in support payments and property division. Yep, she jumped the gun on this one. But another one will come along and she wouldn't make the same mistake twice. Still, it's not a bad heist for the Philippines. If she can pull it off with a few more doting mongers she'll be sitting pretty in the catbird seat. Not much point to posting photos of her anyways. If other guys want to give girls thousands of dollars they'll do it regardless of what anyone says. These girls deserve every penny they can get for putting up with Viagra fueled poundings from leathery weather beaten cocks.

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger;1196053]Filipinas don't usually run off with $3, 000 in cash.[/QUOTE]don't generalise all filipinas. I know enough who, despite their lack of money, wouldn't want to even get a cent from you

But, back to the subject, why does it hurt when many a foreigner refuses to believe that 3,000 $ can kick start a small business for the family / boyfriend, or get a new house, or get a car / van to start rental business?

Economics my friends. 3,000 can achieve a lot more, and at some point, the urgency to marry is lost

I am booked to arrive in Manila at about 05:00 from Vancouver on Friday October 21 on a twenty one day visa. I had it all laid out. I was going to overnight in Manila with a DIA lady and go on to Palawan the next day as she did her monthly calculations and will not be receptive after October 23. From there to Cebu, then CDO, Davao and back to Manila. I have what I think are very good DIA prospects in each city.

I have been chatting with a professional woman in her early forties with two children in CDO and was going to spend time with her there. Then the cruncher. She announced that she has purchased her own ticket to Cebu and will be more comfortable and relaxed getting away from her family to spend the weekend of October 21 with me in Cebu. I understand her point and I am sure it will be an enjoyable weekend but her desire to go where she can be anonymous has royally screwed up my schedule. LOL. First of all I get off an fourteen hour flight and have to catch an early flight to Cebu and know I will be bagged.

Now I am trying to work out a new schedule. So I was looking at flying Cebu to Palawan on October 24 for about three days then back to Manila for a few days when the DIA lady will again be receptive. I have been reading the airline site and from what I can see the airline does not allow checked luggage on that route. I am wondering if anyone can confirm this. If that is the case I will have to fly back to Manila and take PAL to Palawan as I will be traveling with more than carry on. A pain and the ass as far as extra costs as well as unnecessary extra travel time.

When I am on Plalwan I am thinking of staying at The Legend Palawan on Malvar St. In Puerto Princesa and then taking a day or so and going to Elnindo and staying at an out of the way inexpensive place called The Elnido Four Seasons Resort. I am not looking for luxury, just something basic to get away and spend time with a DIA lady. Or, would I be better to just stay with her in Puerto Princesa and do some day tours. She seems to be dumb as a post so perfect for some activities but not so much as far as ideas of where to go or stay.

Thanks for your input.

[QUOTE=Amanut; 1196207]I was looking at flying Cebu to Palawan on October 24 for about three days then back to Manila for a few days when the DIA lady will again be receptive. I have been reading the airline site and from what I can see the airline does not allow checked luggage on that route. I am wondering if anyone can confirm this. If that is the case I will have to fly back to Manila and take PAL to Palawan as I will be traveling with more than carry on. A pain and the ass as far as extra costs as well as unnecessary extra travel time.

When I am on Palawan I am thinking of staying at The Legend Palawan on Malvar St. In Puerto Princesa and then taking a day or so and going to El Nindo and staying at an out of the way inexpensive place. I am not looking for luxury, just something basic to get away and spend time with a DIA lady. Or, would I be better to just stay with her in Puerto Princesa and do some day tours. She seems to be dumb as a post so perfect for some activities but not so much as far as ideas of where to go or stay.[/QUOTE]Hey Amanut, I am flying the Cebu to Palawan route in February. I prepaid for the baggage allowance of 30kg because at the airport it would cost more. In Palawan I would suggest you get out of Puerto Princessa immediately. El Nido is a long way off from PP (5 hours by van). It features some spectacular off shore island scenery and beaches. If you have 5 days or longer then go for it. You can fly direct to El Nido from Manila on Seair.

Otherwise I would suggest you go directly to Sabang Beach (1.5 hours) instead. It has a very beautiful beach and a relaxed feel. I recommend Daluyon Beach Resort $$$$ and Taraw Vista Lodge $. High end or frugal, same beach, it is up to you. For a short 3, 4.5, day excursion I think Sabang, Palawan would be great for you and the right lady. The important thing is don't stay in Puerto Princessa. It is not that it is a bad town, actually it is a pleasant town, but PP is not worth flying to Palawan for. 30 minutes out of PP, as soon as you make the turn off towards Sabang, the scenery becomes amazing and I know you will agree with what I am telling you.

Thanks Natty I appreciate the info. Can you tell me the airline you are flying? I will copy what you are doing. Rather than go to Manila, now I will likely just go back to Cebu from Palawan spend a couple more days, go to Davao and then back to Manila. I have only been to the Philippines once before and am looking forward to seeing more. Frigging tough country to learn one's way around in though.

I also appreciate the info on Sabang and will take your advise as I will only be staying three nights and four days. Even it is a difficult area to find more information about. I can't afford to stay at the Daluyon Beach Resort but the Taraw Vista Lodge likely goes too far the other way. Thanks though because you gave me a good lesson about proximity of the places. Now I have something more to work with. Google is a wonderful thing.

Do you have a contact in Puerto Princessa that you are trying to meet? If not, I'd be rethinking such a visit. I wouldn't be expecting to that some woman you just met would make a good companion for such a trip if you are thinking that. Do you know how you are going to go from Puerto Princessa to El Nido? It's not that easy, especially if it's raining. I think you are leaving yourself thin with all this planning and would do yourself a favor if you cut some of the traveling down. I wouldn't bank on all your DIA contacts coming through.

[QUOTE=Key Master;1196311]Do you have a contact in Puerto Princessa that you are trying to meet? If not, I'd be rethinking such a visit. I wouldn't be expecting to that some woman you just met would make a good companion for such a trip if you are thinking that. Do you know how you are going to go from Puerto Princessa to El Nido? It's not that easy, especially if it's raining. I think you are leaving yourself thin with all this planning and would do yourself a favor if you cut some of the traveling down. I wouldn't bank on all your DIA contacts coming through.[/QUOTE]And PP to El Nido is NOT 5 hours. It is more like 10 hour to 15.

And flying to El Nido isn't cheap. Compared to flying in to PP and bussing.

[QUOTE=Amanut;1196207]She announced that she has purchased her own ticket to Cebu and will be more comfortable and relaxed getting away from her family to spend the weekend of October 21 with me in Cebu.[/QUOTE]Why are you letting a 40 year old with a couple of kids rearrange your trip? You are probably the only guy who has made a date with her in years. You shouldn't be Mr. Macho, but you should also try to leave some of the western wimpiness at home. IMHO YOU arrange your trip, if one of the girls doesn't like it you can EASILY find someone else to spend time with.

I am in AA. Thank you guys for your honesty. It hurts as much as she hurt me. Because you all make me see the truth of it all.

In your loving and gentle ways. Keep coming back muda fukers!

Actually I have no problem with her having paid her own way. For once a filipina has a brain and the ability to pay without having her hand out. She paid her way and is ready for a good weekend. Although I thought I have everything organized, it's nothing a bit of juggling can't work around.

As far as Palawan goes I do have DIA contact that I expect will be fine. I may be disappointed but keep in mind I am there to look around. Frankly whether or not she craps out at the last minutes is not a big issue.

I am taking Natty's advise and going to find a place in Sabang or the general area and will take in some sites rather than do the trek to Elnindo.

Thanks for your help everyone. I will let you know how it goes.

[QUOTE=Amanut;1196289]Can you tell me the airline you are flying? I will copy what you are doing. Rather than go to Manila, now I will likely just go back to Cebu from Palawan spend a couple more days, go to Davao and then back to Manila.[/QUOTE]Amanut,

I am flying Cebu Pacific on my next trip throughout the Philippines. First, I am flying CP from Macau direct into Clark. The only thing wrong with this flight is it arrives in AC at 11:30PM, but Clark customs is a breeze and I will be checked into my hotel and hitting my first bar before 12:15AM. After 5 days, I will fly CP from Clark nonstop to Cebu completely avoiding an unnecessary excursion to Manila. A week later, I am flying CP on to Puerto Princessa and a week after that; I am finally flying CP to Manila.

I like the airlines. Their prices are very good, their fleet is modern, and their stewardess's are pretty. Last February I was waiting in the Macau airport for the flight to AC. Cebu Pacific made a head count of passengers and since all the ticketed passengers were in the waiting lounge, they decided to take off a half hour early. I could not believe it, but it was great. The plane was half full and I had a row of seats up front all to myself.

From Manila, I am travelling on to Thailand. I got a competitive rate with Thai Air (almost as low as CP's) but the real clincher was the Thai Air Flight leaves MNL at 1PM arriving in BKK at 3:20PM giving me plenty of time to take a taxi to Pattaya. The CP flight to BKK was not competitive on the time issue.

[QUOTE=Amanut;1196602]I am taking Natty's advise and going to find a place in Sabang or the general area and will take in some sites rather than do the trek to Elnindo.[/QUOTE]I second Natty's advice. I was in Sabang in August three years ago. Nice beach, few people, high and low-end lodging options, lots of hiking trails in the national park surrounding Sabang, the underground river nearby, and lots of local boats willing to take you to the underground river or elsewhere along the coastline. The road from downtown Puerto Princesa probably still has lots of ongoing construction; it's a twisting and turning scenic hour and a half ride.

If you happen to get stuck in Puerto Princesa with time on your hands, there are some great restaurants available. My favorite is Badjao Seafront Restaurant-built on stilts over mangroves extending out into the bay. Open air design and great seafood. Another one in town is the Ka Lui Restaurant on Rizal Avenue between the airport and downtown.

If you get stranded totally without female company, there's the Phoenix KTV bar a short walk from the airport. There's a you-shaped, one-way driveway from Rizal Avenue into the airport. P Abrea Street is half way between the two sides of the U and across the street from the airport. Phoenix is about 100 meters up Abrea Street going away from the airport. I think somebody reported here a few years ago that women there go for barfine. Could be a last resort pickup for company to take to Sabang.

I think three nights and two days will be enough time to stretch my intellect. This is my latest DIA message from the lady I am going to spend time with in Palawan. Maybe. Struck me as funny though. I had talked to her about accommodation in Palawan. She came through with the name of a hotel she thought may be nice. The conversation finished like this.

Good evening, I'm not online yesterday, have a little problem only. How are you there hope you always okay. And I'm fine here. By the way here's the name of the hotel. Search it in google, sabang hotel. The name is Cherrydan hotel I don't know if thats a right spelling.

[QUOTE=Amanut; 1197658]I think three nights and two days will be enough time to stretch my intellect. This is my latest DIA message from the lady I am going to spend time with in Palawan. Maybe. Struck me as funny though. I had talked to her about accommodation in Palawan. She came through with the name of a hotel she thought may be nice. The conversation finished like this.

Good evening, I'm not online yesterday, have a little problem only. How are you there hope you always okay. And I'm fine here. By the way here's the name of the hotel. Search it in google, sabang hotel. The name is Cherrydan hotel I don't know if thats a right spelling.[/QUOTE]If in Peuro Princesca, look up Starlight Apartelle. (not sure if they changed the name. Walking distance to the nearby mall. And safe place Fleuris. [url]http://www.fleuris.com/location[/url]

I have stayed in both places.

Me: pessimist: says, if a girl can refer a hotel, there is a chance she's stayed there. LOL.

[QUOTE=Amanut;1197658]This is my latest DIA message from the lady I am going to spend time with in Palawan. Maybe. Struck me as funny though. I had talked to her about accommodation in Palawan. She came through with the name of a hotel [Cherrydan] she thought may be nice. The conversation finished like this: Good evening, I'm not online yesterday, have a little problem only. How are you there hope you always okay. And I'm fine here. By the way here's the name of the hotel [Cherrydan]. Search it in google, sabang hotel.[/QUOTE]Amanut, For the hell of it, I checked Jens Peters 'Philippines Travel Guide' the bible on Philippine travel and Trip Advisors and found no mention of Cherrydan for Sabang.

My advice is to stop cow towing to the DIA lady and take control of the situation or you will not have a successful liaison with her. Make all the arrangements yourself and then before booking it, present her with the itinerary – dates and location only. It is a great invitation. If she is for real she will be happy to accompany you. You are the man after all and it is your job to handle these matters. It is her job to be pretty and show you a good time. If she says she is ok with the trip, fine, you may have a great excursion, but remember since you have never met this girl before there is a good probability that she will be a no show or if she does show you might not like her. This is the Philippines. So if you go ahead with your plans you should be prepared to call an audible if necessary. Your choices may end being going solo to Sabang or finding another girl on short notice to accompany you if your original plans do not pan out. All I am saying is, be prepared for the unexpected. That way you will not be let down and left hanging if things don't go as planned.

I am planning to go to northern Palawan solo in February. After a 3 week sex marathon from Hong Kong, Macau, AC to Cebu, my 6 days in Palawan will be a good R&R for me and time to charge up my batteries for round two when I head off to Manila, Pattaya, Bangkok, CP and finally Hong Kong again. If, I say if, I find a real sweetie in AC or Cebu I may ask her to accompany me in Palawan. It would be nice, but only with the right girl.

Last year I visited Sabang, Palawan solo. While staying at the Daluyon Beach and Mountain Resort I met two German girls also staying at the Daluyon the first two nights, later I ran into 3 Japanese girls on holiday there, and one night at the bar I met a pretty local girl from Puerto Princessa. The PP girl was accompanying her girl friend who was visiting her boyfriend, a local guy who worked in Sabang. I spent a nice evening talking with her, but no sex. She gave me her phone number and asked if I would be spending any time in her town. I definitely got the vibe that she would be interested in something more if I only had the time to date her and treat her right. I still have her phone number and I will call her and see if she remembers me when I get to PI. The point is there are opportunities in Palawan. I find sufficient reason to go there with or without a date. It is a beautiful island.

Somebody also posted about a KTV in PPm called Remember Me?

But the price seemed to be a bit high.

And the option of sitting in Mendoza Park in the evening until approached by a girl, or maybe a pimp.

Good luck,

G

[QUOTE=Skip Kost; 1196632]I second Natty's advice. I was in Sabang in August three years ago. Nice beach, few people, high and low-end lodging options, lots of hiking trails in the national park surrounding Sabang, the underground river nearby, and lots of local boats willing to take you to the underground river or elsewhere along the coastline. The road from downtown Puerto Princesa probably still has lots of ongoing construction; it's a twisting and turning scenic hour and a half ride.

If you happen to get stuck in Puerto Princesa with time on your hands, there are some great restaurants available. My favorite is Badjao Seafront Restaurant-built on stilts over mangroves extending out into the bay. Open air design and great seafood. Another one in town is the Ka Lui Restaurant on Rizal Avenue between the airport and downtown.

If you get stranded totally without female company, there's the Phoenix KTV bar a short walk from the airport. There's a you-shaped, one-way driveway from Rizal Avenue into the airport. P Abrea Street is half way between the two sides of the U and across the street from the airport. Phoenix is about 100 meters up Abrea Street going away from the airport. I think somebody reported here a few years ago that women there go for barfine. Could be a last resort pickup for company to take to Sabang.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Amanut; 1197658]I think three nights and two days will be enough time to stretch my intellect. This is my latest DIA message from the lady I am going to spend time with in Palawan. Maybe. Struck me as funny though. I had talked to her about accommodation in Palawan. She came through with the name of a hotel she thought may be nice. The conversation finished like this.

Good evening, I'm not online yesterday, have a little problem only. How are you there hope you always okay. And I'm fine here. By the way here's the name of the hotel. Search it in google, sabang hotel. The name is Cherrydan hotel I don't know if thats a right spelling.[/QUOTE]Check out GregLondon's post in the "other areas" thread.

I am going to be in Manila for one week an AC for another week in October and would like to know where is a good spot ot watch american football. I am staying in Ermita but will be willing to travel. I know it will be very later at night but it is no problem for me. Please let me know.

[QUOTE=Dick Hertz;1198792]I am going to be in Manila for one week an AC for another week in October and would like to know where is a good spot ot watch american football. I am staying in Ermita but will be willing to travel. I know it will be very later at night but it is no problem for me. Please let me know.[/QUOTE]To Dick,

The big hotel with cable that have ESPN asia will show the Sunday and Monday night game live, it will be in the morning 8 am Manila time, most sport bar show mostly soccer and basketball only not many NFL fan and PI.

Fast Eddie 48

Natty as I said in a previous post I think my Palawan DIA is dumb as a post. Perhaps that is not fair. Maybe she has just never seen the other side of life. Her Cherrydan is in fact the Sheridan. When I am chatting I do like to ask for recommendations about accommodations. It gives me a sense of what I am dealing with. The conversations with her on YM are painful, but I have seen her on cam and she is cute. Each of us has our own cues. Worst case senerio I cut it short with her with urgent business travel. Thanks for the Jens Peters link though. Great information on that site.

Skip Kost. Thanks. Yes I have sent GregLondon a PM for more info. It is going to be a great trip.

[QUOTE=Amanut;1199100]Her Cherrydan is in fact the Sheridan. he conversations with her on YM are painful, but I have seen her on cam and she is cute. Each of us has our own cues. Worst case senerio I cut it short with her with urgent business travel.[/QUOTE]Accommodations: the Cherrydan, of course why didn't you say so in the first place? The Sheridan is the other upscale hotel in Sabang. The Daluyon is done up in the 'native' style and the Sheridan is modern in style. I did not see the rooms at the Sheridan, but I kept running into another punter who was staying there with his Filipina GF. She was hot. He said the place was nice, but next time he might try the Daluyon.

Food: the Sheridan restaurant on the beach is very good. Twice for dinner, I ordered the grilled Yellow Fin Tuna steaks and they were great – high quality and very fresh. My last night in Sabang I tried the stuffed Calamari at the Sheridan which could easily have been terrible, but it was very good. I had breakfasts at the Daluyon because it came with the room. It was ok. The best part was the fresh fruit and juices available. The Daluyon restaurant had one thing on its menu that was great: their Yellow Fin Tuna Ceviche. I ordered it almost every day for lunch. So the meals I had in Sabang turned out to be the best I had in PI. No kidding. I also tried a couple of small local type restaurants on the beach, but they were disappointing, so I stuck with the two high end places.

I think you have the right attitude concerning your DIA girl. If it does not work out; send her home or abort the mission. But don't be too hard on her. You are not asking her out because of her intellect or educational background. Treat her right and if she looks good to you, has a pleasant disposition, likes to shag, and doesn't try to take you for too much of a ride; then it will be an excellent trip. Shit, I got 4. 5 months to go before my next trip. I envy you.

Thanks Fast Eddie 48. I will have to make sure I download what I need from NFL. Com before I go so I can get my team on my laptop. I just wanted to see the game on a big screen and some of the espn games do not interest me. Take care and go Bears.

I don't think it will happen in my lifetime but I guess we can always hope.

[url]http://ph.news.yahoo.com/dost-campaign-hopes-redefine-filipino-time-071005851.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1200077]I don't think it will happen in my lifetime but I guess we can always hope.

[url]http://ph.news.yahoo.com/dost-campaign-hopes-redefine-filipino-time-071005851.html[/url][/QUOTE]I find I have a very hard time getting back to being on time for things when I return to the states after two or three weeks in the Phils. Or maybe it's just that too much sex ruins me for anything else meaningful in life.

Recently I had a Pakastani explain to me that his countrymen are so resistant and distrusting of their government, that even when the government officially announces that it's time to turn back the clocks one hour for the summer, most Pakastanis don't bother to do it. Time demarcations are, after all, arbitrary and relative, and they don't have much direct correlation with movements of fish or game, ripening crops, or seasonal weather.

[QUOTE=Skip Kost; 1200108]I find I have a very hard time getting back to being on time for things when I return to the states after two or three weeks in the Phils. Or maybe it's just that too much sex ruins me for anything else meaningful in life.

Recently I had a Pakastani explain to me that his countrymen are so resistant and distrusting of their government, that even when the government officially announces that it's time to turn back the clocks one hour for the summer, most Pakastanis don't bother to do it. Time demarcations are, after all, arbitrary and relative, and they don't have much direct correlation with movements of fish or game, ripening crops, or seasonal weather.[/QUOTE]Not without reason. An Asian country adjusted the clock by 1 hour, towards GMT, and the Asian Tsunami hit. And the astrologers believe that the calamity happened, simply, by adjusting the clock, the country had been relocated to a different 'plane' and a different location, and hence bore the wrath of the Gods.

Lo and behold, the next year they put back the time to where it was long before.

Welcome to Asia. There are powerful forces at play here.

Since this is the Philippines thread, how do you understand people who rate VP Binay as the most trusted person, when his wife is facing corruption charges? And how do you understand people who hate Macros Sr but vote in Marcos Jr and his mom?

[QUOTE=Econo Tech;1200329]how do you understand people who rate VP Binay as the most trusted person, when his wife is facing corruption charges? And how do you understand people who hate Macros Sr but vote in Marcos Jr and his mom?[/QUOTE]I don't [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] into the wind, either.

[QUOTE=D Cups;1200762]The Bears put up a good fight yesterday but I am a Packer fan. Good luck.[/QUOTE]Hey D Cups,

Glad to hear there are Packer Backers everywhere! There is actually a shop beside the Royal Amsterdam Hotel in AC that sells some pretty nice jerseys. I got a Farve and Rodgers one last spring. Maybe we can share a brat and a beer sometime! It was SWEET yesterday!

GO PACK GO!

[QUOTE=Sky Ryder; 1200794]Hey D Cups,

Glad to hear there are Packer Backers everywhere! There is actually a shop beside the Royal Amsterdam Hotel in AC that sells some pretty nice jerseys. I got a Farve and Rodgers one last spring. Maybe we can share a brat and a beer sometime! It was SWEET yesterday!

GO PACK GO![/QUOTE]Is that the little shack painted green and gold with the Packers helmet? How 'about that Pack. You could have shot a cannonball down main street in my Wisconsin downtown and not hit a soul. The Bears fans down in Illinois have been whining all day.

[QUOTE=Econo Tech;1200329]Since this is the Philippines thread, how do you understand people who rate VP Binay as the most trusted person, when his wife is facing corruption charges? And how do you understand people who hate Macros Sr but vote in Marcos Jr and his mom?[/QUOTE]I don't care about their political views as long as I can get cheap pussy!

[QUOTE=Econo Tech;1200329]Since this is the Philippines thread, how do you understand people who rate VP Binay as the most trusted person, when his wife is facing corruption charges? And how do you understand people who hate Macros Sr but vote in Marcos Jr and his mom?[/QUOTE]VP Binay has at the last count about 10 charges against him. Hes fighting them all with Makati tax payers money and some maybe resolved by 2020. His wife only has the one charge against her. VP Binays son, now the mayor has a few charges against him too, some in which the mother is a co-respondant and some in which father and brother are co respondants. His former deputy mayor even has filed charges against the VP.

The only question I ask is how on a mayors salary did he have a really blingy gold rolex with all the diamonds that was his favouritre accessory. Not to the mention the cost of his daughters wedding which I attended. Now that was truly extravagant! Being a mayor is lucrative in Phils.

[QUOTE=Nolz7;1200851]I don't care about their political views as long as I can get cheap pussy![/QUOTE]Yah, but the US Ambassador has just opened up a new way for the PNP / BI and all and Sundry to screw visitors. Accusing anybody of being sex tourist.

What is he upto? Hmmmm.

Does he even know that the 'girls' are brought to the trade by their own brethren and it's not like the foreigners are morally corrupting them?

Hi all.

I was wondering if anyone has used these cards to withdrawl money from ATM's, if so do the PI Machines hit you up with a transaction fee.

Cheers

[QUOTE=Apeman 28; 1200965]Hi all.

I was wondering if anyone has used these cards to withdrawl money from ATM's, if so do the PI Machines hit you up with a transaction fee.

Cheers[/QUOTE]I used, and do max withdrawal, as the ATMs charge for each withdrawal.

Forgot the numbers, but, yes, there are charges, unless you use Citi. Or so I am told. Never tried.

It was about 200 peso per withdrawal?

Guys.

Ok an unusual request. I met this filipina at a filipina dating site. Have talked to her, her family. And she was to come to SG to visit me this week. I got her a ticket in SIA, she had a letter from me with ALL my info, a statement saying I would care for her financially, she had 500 USD, a valid passport. She has a real job, a family, a house, etc. She got unloaded at manilla (after she checked in). I checked with SIA and they confirmed that immigration pulled her. I talked to ICA in Changi who assured me that this is NOT a SG government problem or request to let filipinas come on tourists visas (esp if they have a return ticket). Of course, they told her some story about needing an "affidavit for travel". And that was a requirement of the SG govt. I checked 3 times with ICA in SG and they said "no such rule exists"

Any ideas besides the fact that PHIL is a terrible government? I'm really upset as is she of course. I know this isn't BS on her part because again SIA confirmed her check in, through security and that she got pulled by PHIL immigration.

Thanks,

GG

[QUOTE=Geneva Guy; 1201061]Guys.

Ok an unusual request. I met this filipina at a filipina dating site. Have talked to her, her family. And she was to come to SG to visit me this week. I got her a ticket in SIA, she had a letter from me with ALL my info, a statement saying I would care for her financially, she had 500 USD, a valid passport. She has a real job, a family, a house, etc. She got unloaded at manilla (after she checked in). I checked with SIA and they confirmed that immigration pulled her. I talked to ICA in Changi who assured me that this is NOT a SG government problem or request to let filipinas come on tourists visas (esp if they have a return ticket). Of course, they told her some story about needing an "affidavit for travel". And that was a requirement of the SG govt. I checked 3 times with ICA in SG and they said "no such rule exists"

Any ideas besides the fact that PHIL is a terrible government? I'm really upset as is she of course. I know this isn't BS on her part because again SIA confirmed her check in, through security and that she got pulled by PHIL immigration.

Thanks,

GG[/QUOTE]Feel your pain. Helped a Filipina to get a passport recently but realised that this kind of hassle makes it too much of a hit or miss as to whether she can get the flight. This discussion has been on this board a few times already.

The blame sits fairly on the shoulders of the "do gooders". Philippines knows it will get money from US for stopping innocent people from travelling under the guise of " anti trafficking. Its knows it will get money if it thunders into Angeles and saves bar girls (who are quite happy being bargirls!).

Its part of the same idiocy as proclaimed the fabulously overweight and too talkative US Ambassador who seems to be a mouthpiece for Hilary. Sadly your girl got caught up in all this nonsense.

And yet if you were related to the Yakuza and were trying to get your girl to Japan, it would be easy. If you were related to some Koreans gangs and were bringing a girl out of NAIA would be easy too. Its we innocents who have these problems. Sorry that your banging plans didn't work out.

If its any consolation, its really easy for a girl to get out of Indonesia especially for a SG trip. I've done that many times.

[QUOTE=Geneva Guy; 1201061]Guys.

Ok an unusual request. I met this filipina at a filipina dating site. Have talked to her, her family. And she was to come to SG to visit me this week. I got her a ticket in SIA, she had a letter from me with ALL my info, a statement saying I would care for her financially, she had 500 USD, a valid passport. She has a real job, a family, a house, etc. She got unloaded at manilla (after she checked in). I checked with SIA and they confirmed that immigration pulled her. I talked to ICA in Changi who assured me that this is NOT a SG government problem or request to let filipinas come on tourists visas (esp if they have a return ticket). Of course, they told her some story about needing an "affidavit for travel". And that was a requirement of the SG govt. I checked 3 times with ICA in SG and they said "no such rule exists"

Any ideas besides the fact that PHIL is a terrible government? I'm really upset as is she of course. I know this isn't BS on her part because again SIA confirmed her check in, through security and that she got pulled by PHIL immigration.

Thanks,

GG[/QUOTE]Not abnormal, considering that the BI in Manila thinks that US Govt pays them to stop as much people as possible, from leaving Philippines.

You must include an invite, or else, it was bound to happen. Especially when the BI has been authorised by the Pres to stop [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url], and illegal labour (regardless that people are running out of Phil because of poverty.) and paying the "Escorts" and POEA would magically fix stuff.

The affidavit for travel, as well, as the right to ask your family history / income tax return / DNA verification / Proof of your virginity etc. Etc. Is a RULE BY PHIL GOVT / BI. Nothing to do with Singapore.

And Gloria made travel easy for Filipinos. Aquino made it tough, as the various scammers were loosing out when the country had free travel. So the rules were reversed, including compulsory POEA registration, leading to 1 or 2 months salary deduction, or more. And so and so. Plus the 'escorts'.

Ask her why they voted in PNoy.

PM me if you want to get her here. I will advice accordinlgy

[QUOTE=Econo Tech; 1200980]I used, and do max withdrawal, as the ATMs charge for each withdrawal.

Forgot the numbers, but, yes, there are charges, unless you use Citi. Or so I am told. Never tried.

It was about 200 peso per withdrawal?[/QUOTE]Thanks for the info, Might try Citi and HSBC terminals and keep fingers crossed. Cheers

[QUOTE=Geneva Guy; 1201061]Guys.

Ok an unusual request. I met this filipina at a filipina dating site. Have talked to her, her family. And she was to come to SG to visit me this week. I got her a ticket in SIA, she had a letter from me with ALL my info, a statement saying I would care for her financially, she had 500 USD, a valid passport. She has a real job, a family, a house, etc. She got unloaded at manilla (after she checked in). I checked with SIA and they confirmed that immigration pulled her. I talked to ICA in Changi who assured me that this is NOT a SG government problem or request to let filipinas come on tourists visas (esp if they have a return ticket). Of course, they told her some story about needing an "affidavit for travel". And that was a requirement of the SG govt. I checked 3 times with ICA in SG and they said "no such rule exists"

Any ideas besides the fact that PHIL is a terrible government? I'm really upset as is she of course. I know this isn't BS on her part because again SIA confirmed her check in, through security and that she got pulled by PHIL immigration.

Thanks,

GG[/QUOTE]Bad story.

I heard of 2 other cases this week of girls being pulled off flights to HK, despite having all the required letters, docs etc.

This case from GG seems particularly bad given that she has a real job, a house etc and had all the right letters too.

In the HK cases apparently both of them forfeited their tickets because the airline was not responsible for what happened.

I travelled to HK with my filipina wife 2 weeks ago. I checked in through the ACR foreigner checkpoint and then waited inside for her while she went through another immigration line and they held her up with questions about her travelling alone etc. She called me over and I showed my I D and answered some questions and the immig officer was satisfied that she was my wife (we both had similar family name in the passport)

I guess there are new rules now and if you want to take a girl out of the country maybe you need to travel with her. Just because it was OK for single unaccompanied girls to leave a month ago doesn't mean it is OK now.

[QUOTE=Geneva Guy; 1201061]Guys.

And she was to come to SG to visit me this week. I got her a ticket in SIA, she had a letter from me with ALL my info, a statement saying I would care for her financially, she had 500 USD, a valid passport. She has a real job, a family, a house, etc. She got unloaded at manilla (after she checked in). I checked with SIA and they confirmed that immigration pulled her. I talked to ICA in Changi who assured me that this is NOT a SG government problem or request to let filipinas come on tourists visas (esp if they have a return ticket). Of course, they told her some story about needing an "affidavit for travel". And that was a requirement of the SG govt. I checked 3 times with ICA in SG and they said "no such rule exists"

Any ideas besides the fact that PHIL is a terrible government? I'm really upset as is she of course. I know this isn't BS on her part because again SIA confirmed her check in, through security and that she got pulled by PHIL immigration.[/QUOTE]don't know what all of these acronyms (SIA, ICA, SG) mean. But it seems if you travel with the girl alot of these problems are solved.

[QUOTE=Devils 1;1201317]don't know what all of these acronyms (SIA, ICA, SG) mean. But it seems if you travel with the girl alot of these problems are solved.[/QUOTE]Not always, as the BI will seperate the two.

And my GF threw a massive hissy fit, when she was refused clearence as she didn't have a "LEAVE APPROVAL" from the hospital. Turns out the Phil has this American colonial time rule that all govt employees must show proof of leave, else they disappear overseas.

And she was also asked to show her income tax returns. She blew up and said "FOR FUCK SAKE, YOU ARE NOT TAXI DEPT, AND WHY DO YOU PICK ON PEOPLE LIKE ME AND LET OFF THOSE RICH PEOPLE? DO YOU ASK THEM FOR ALL THE ABOVE AND MORE?"

She blasted them telling that she must be remanded or refund the flight ticket, and BI is violating her basic human right to travel. All silence, and she was let off. Works most of the time.

As for the airline, yes, even airlines have filed a case against loss of revenue, as, those on regular fare do file for claims, and disputed, and the seat is left empty, and until the segment is cancelled off, the return too is lost. The case may be heard by 2014. And by then. Legal fees would have gone sky high.

Ah, thanks to PNoy. Who is screwing everybody who is leaving the country.

As I mentioned, even those coming on short 6 months contract must engage a licensed agent, pay 3 month salary and then the Govt wonders why those on short contracts end up part timing in bars and what nots.

It's a vicious cycle they spin.

A Filipino said, the rich have no problem travelling, the poor, walang pera, the middle class becoming affluent now, are FLEECED.

By the way, the affidavit to travel? Cost a mere 68 U$ in Phil Embassy, Singapore. Another money spinnnng scam

Well we can't say Mr Obese didn't have it coming.

Making provacative statements about 40% of male visitors going to Phils for bonking vacations, was bound to stir the pot.

And now, offended and in umbrage the Senators ask him where he got his figures from.

Probably from several Big Macs if you look at the obese lump of lard! Someone should take him to Burgos!

Nice article. [url]http://globalnation.inquirer.net/13953/say-sorry-or-pack-up-us-envoy-told-over-sex-remark[/url]

[QUOTE=FreebieFan; 1201593]Well we can't say Mr Obese didn't have it coming.

Making provacative statements about 40% of male visitors going to Phils for bonking vacations, was bound to stir the pot.

And now, offended and in umbrage the Senators ask him where he got his figures from.

Probably from several Big Macs if you look at the obese lump of lard! Someone should take him to Burgos!

Nice article.

[url]http://globalnation.inquirer.net/13953/say-sorry-or-pack-up-us-envoy-told-over-sex-remark[/url][/QUOTE]Don't want to say anything to Uncle Sam's messenger boy, but, in another news, he said he loves Filipino food.

Not to offend filipinos, but, anybody who says they love the high MSG and tasteless Filipino food (except the rare few like Bicol Express or Sisig) need to get their brain scanned for damage or possible UFO invasion. LOL

[QUOTE=FreebieFan; 1201593]Well we can't say Mr Obese didn't have it coming.

Making provacative statements about 40% of male visitors going to Phils for bonking vacations, was bound to stir the pot.

And now, offended and in umbrage the Senators ask him where he got his figures from.

Probably from several Big Macs if you look at the obese lump of lard! Someone should take him to Burgos!

Nice article.

[url]http://globalnation.inquirer.net/13953/say-sorry-or-pack-up-us-envoy-told-over-sex-remark[/url][/QUOTE]Maybe he is a bit jealous, He can't go around and have fun like most of us can. Also I would start talking bullshit if I had to wear a suit like that with the temperatures over here.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan; 1201593]Well we can't say Mr Obese didn't have it coming.

Making provacative statements about 40% of male visitors going to Phils for bonking vacations, was bound to stir the pot.

And now, offended and in umbrage the Senators ask him where he got his figures from.

Probably from several Big Macs if you look at the obese lump of lard! Someone should take him to Burgos!

Nice article.

[url]http://globalnation.inquirer.net/13953/say-sorry-or-pack-up-us-envoy-told-over-sex-remark[/url][/QUOTE]The Dude was probably just extrapolating (and aiming low with his number) from the observed conduct of his own military / embassy personnel. You can't blame the guys for sure. 5-star accommodation with king size beds on government bill and I've seen 3- and 4-star generals and admirals doing nothing to discourage the lower ranks. Discretion is kept to a minimum. Can't blame them as well, for a stint in Paradise surely boosts morale after rotating out of a dusty hellhole. I haven't talked to a military guy yet who doesn't want to come back if the chance arises.

So the Dude should probably just shut up or do something in his own backyard first and risk a mutiny. How exactly blossomed Angeles City again? Next to former Clark Airbase? Oh.

[QUOTE=Econo Tech;1200329]And how do you understand people who hate Macros Sr but vote in Marcos Jr and his mom?[/QUOTE]Well, being elected into office in the Philippines doesn't necessarily mean that people actually voted for you. And this particular family put CONSIDERABLE resources into their last elections (all 3 of them, Senator Son, Congresswoman Mother and Governor Daughter) , in the process thrusting aside long time political allies who couldn't match the expenses to the people in charge of well, receiving said expenses. With that said, the family always had comparably strong support in their home provinces, coupled with the "investment", that "election" was turned into a cakewalk.

Gentlemen.

I was talking this morning with a young Cebu filipina who poured out her problem.

She has just confirmed that she is pregnant.

Says the impregnation happened on August 3. Means she is almost 2 months pregnant.

Says she does not want the baby.

Does anybody know of potions or pills that will terminate her pregnancy safely at this stage?

Thanks in anticipation.

G

[QUOTE=Bloomberg;1201669]I had to wear a suit like that with the temperatures over here.[/QUOTE]Could be some sort of odd conservative restriction with the embassy. My last trip there. 6 years ago, I noticed all the operations staff was in jacket and tie while working. Probably taking orders on that from the top.

[QUOTE=Jambo;1201945]Could be some sort of odd conservative restriction with the embassy. My last trip there. 6 years ago, I noticed all the operations staff was in jacket and tie while working. Probably taking orders on that from the top.[/QUOTE]That dress code is enforced primarily in 'third world' nations, probably to show the who the paymaster / boss is LOL.

In Singapore, the staff are seldom seen dolled up in Jacket and Tie.

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1201935]Gentlemen.

I was talking this morning with a young Cebu filipina who poured out her problem.

She has just confirmed that she is pregnant.

Says the impregnation happened on August 3. Means she is almost 2 months pregnant.

Says she does not want the baby.

Does anybody know of potions or pills that will terminate her pregnancy safely at this stage?

Thanks in anticipation.

G[/QUOTE]You can fly her to Singapore, spend 800 $ to clear it, and then fly her back LOL.

Abortion is illegal (crazy Pres PNoy's one shining star is his insistence on the RH Bill to fix this. But, not yet.)

Alternate is to use the abort pills, though getting on the net is not something I would want to do.

Google for Cytotech.

Even for Cytotech, which could create bleeding (essentially it is inducing abortion). Not nice to do it in Philippines.

Sane idea: get medical help, out of PHIL

[QUOTE=Econo Tech; 1201992]You can fly her to Singapore, spend 800 $ to clear it, and then fly her back LOL.

Abortion is illegal (crazy Pres PNoy's one shining star is his insistence on the RH Bill to fix this. But, not yet.)

Alternate is to use the abort pills, though getting on the net is not something I would want to do.

Google for Cytotech.

Even for Cytotech, which could create bleeding (essentially it is inducing abortion). Not nice to do it in Philippines.

Sane idea: get medical help, out of PHIL[/QUOTE]I don't think Singapore is a viable alternative. While abortion is legal there, the right is restricted to residents of the country, and you have to be able o prove that you've been there for a minimum of four months before you can terminate a pregnancy.

[QUOTE=GoodEnough;1202068]I don't think Singapore is a viable alternative. While abortion is legal there, the right is restricted to residents of the country, and you have to be able o prove that you've been there for a minimum of four months before you can terminate a pregnancy.[/QUOTE]Since when? Even maids get aborted here legally, even though the law says Maids can't get pregnant. Oh heck, enough of people I know, flew in here, aborted, and went back.

Maybe you asked the Govt hospitals.

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1201935]Gentlemen.

I was talking this morning with a young Cebu filipina who poured out her problem.

She has just confirmed that she is pregnant.

Says the impregnation happened on August 3. Means she is almost 2 months pregnant.

Says she does not want the baby.

Does anybody know of potions or pills that will terminate her pregnancy safely at this stage?

Thanks in anticipation.

G[/QUOTE]Abortion is illegal in the Phils and a criminal offense if you facilitate one, that said, it is common knowledge that the Chinese Filipino's sell a drink concotion that will induce abortion in its early stages.

She'd have to find a Chinese herbalist for it.

Billy

The drug CYTOTEC is a medication taken for ulcers. Also it will often be used to abort a pregnancy. The drug is readily available in the Philippines. It works! Side effects, will cause abnormal "flow" for 2 weeks.

[QUOTE=Econo Tech; 1201243]Not abnormal, considering that the BI in Manila thinks that US Govt pays them to stop as much people as possible, from leaving Philippines.

You must include an invite, or else, it was bound to happen. Especially when the BI has been authorised by the Pres to stop [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url], and illegal labour (regardless that people are running out of Phil because of poverty.) and paying the "Escorts" and POEA would magically fix stuff.

The affidavit for travel, as well, as the right to ask your family history / income tax return / DNA verification / Proof of your virginity etc. Etc. Is a RULE BY PHIL GOVT / BI. Nothing to do with Singapore.

And Gloria made travel easy for Filipinos. Aquino made it tough, as the various scammers were loosing out when the country had free travel. So the rules were reversed, including compulsory POEA registration, leading to 1 or 2 months salary deduction, or more. And so and so. Plus the 'escorts'.

Ask her why they voted in PNoy.

PM me if you want to get her here. I will advice accordinlgy[/QUOTE]Just my 2 cents, having worked in Singapore previously (security related) I understand a few things. Back a few years, the airport people were hell on Thai girls coming in from Bangkok on Thursday and Friday. Lots of the girls were working girls who came in looking to work Orchid road. They would 3rd degree these girls, look in their purse for condoms, lingerie, x rated DVD's etc.

Ask how much money they had etc etc, they knew a lot of them were hookers.

Sounds like they are doing the same to the Phil chicks.

Last year, you had that botched hostage rescue in Manila in which several Chinese citizens were killed by a PNP gone psycho. You can bet that is the HK Chinese way of shitting all over Filipinos by hassling them at the airport.

Spam hog

[QUOTE=Spam Hog; 1202134.

Last year, you had that botched hostage rescue in Manila in which several Chinese citizens were killed by a PNP gone psycho. You can bet that is the HK Chinese way of shitting all over Filipinos by hassling them at the airport.

Spam hog[/QUOTE]You imagine too many things about Singapore.

The issue is AT MANILA AIRPORT, not in Singapore. And escorts are FILIPINO escorts to escort them out of the Airport past BI (MANILA IMMIGRATION).

With the US Ambassador and US Govt pressuring the Phil Govt to stop [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url].

(Re: the Hon US Ambassador. Poor guy. Maybe feeling frustrated that while his staff are having a whale of a time in P Burgos and Edsa, heck, even PNoy had frequent visits to AC.)

[QUOTE=Jim Nelson;1202133]The drug CYTOTEC is a medication taken for ulcers. Also it will often be used to abort a pregnancy. The drug is readily available in the Philippines. It works! Side effects, will cause abnormal "flow" for 2 weeks.[/QUOTE]Before conspiring to murder this girl's unborn child please consider the fact that this is a criminal act under her nation's laws. More importantly, she may be killed by the complications resulting from an illegal abortion. Giving her an ulcer drug that will make her bleed out of her pussy for two weeks under questionable sanitary conditions in the Third World sounds like a recipe for terminating her and the pregnancy. It would be criminal to administer such a drug unless one is a licensed physician who has conducted a physical evaluation and interview of the patient and is knowledgeable of the correct dosage, possible drug interactions and side effects.

Unless you want to end up on trial for murder like Dr Conrad Murray minus the medical degree and license, and plus the charge for illegally practicing medicine, stay away from this one. Even in settings where abortion is legal the girl would need counseling by a mental health professional before and after the procedure. It is not quite as simple as when you buy your street Viagra to self-medicate in order to remedy a limp dick. If your self-prescribed dick pills result in priapism with massive stroke or heart attack the local authorities wouldn't give a second thought to another dead sex tourist in a low budget hotel room. This girl has family and questions are likely to be asked if she hemorrhages out her pussy and dies leaving those pills behind. You don't want to be the foreigner involved in the deaths.

Take a look at articles 256 thru 259 of the revise Philippine penal code:

Art. 256. Intentional abortion. — Any person who shall intentionally cause an abortion shall suffer:

1. The penalty of reclusion temporal, if he shall use any violence upon the person of the pregnant woman.

2. The penalty of prision mayor if, without using violence, he shall act without the consent of the woman.

3. The penalty of prision correccional in its medium and maximum periods, if the woman shall have consented.

Art. 257. Unintentional abortion. — The penalty of prision correccional in its minimum and medium period shall be imposed upon any person who shall cause an abortion by violence, but unintentionally.

Art. 258. Abortion practiced by the woman herself of by her parents. — The penalty of prision correccional in its medium and maximum periods shall be imposed upon a woman who shall practice abortion upon herself or shall consent that any other person should do so.

Any woman who shall commit this offense to conceal her dishonor, shall suffer the penalty of prision correccional in its minimum and medium periods.

If this crime be committed by the parents of the pregnant woman or either of them, and they act with the consent of said woman for the purpose of concealing her dishonor, the offenders shall suffer the penalty of prision correccional in its medium and maximum periods.

Art. 259. Abortion practiced by a physician or midwife and dispensing of abortives. — The penalties provided in Article 256 shall be imposed in its maximum period, respectively, upon any physician or midwife who, taking advantage of their scientific knowledge or skill, shall cause an abortion or assist in causing the same.

Any pharmacist who, without the proper prescription from a physician, shall dispense any abortive shall suffer arresto mayor and a fine not exceeding 1, 000 pesos.

[QUOTE=Jim Nelson;1202133]Side effects, will cause abnormal "flow" for 2 weeks.[/QUOTE]And possibly death. No kidding.

[QUOTE=GoodEnough;1202068]I don't think Singapore is a viable alternative. While abortion is legal there, the right is restricted to residents of the country, and you have to be able o prove that you've been there for a minimum of four months before you can terminate a pregnancy.[/QUOTE]Quick trip to HK is what a few friends of mine have done. Of course thats assuming that a young single passport holding ticket carrying girl can make it past Fortress Immigration. Then again when those wallys ask a girl why she's going overseas and she says to get abortion they might lock her up immediately or just say quietly " proceed".

Has sub $1000 from western US to Manila between now and mid-December, and sub $1300 in June / July.

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1203012]Has sub $1000 from western US to Manila between now and mid-December, and sub $1300 in June / July.[/QUOTE]To West coast

There are many airline offer fare From SFO to Manila now to mid DEC for less than 1000 USD, the problem with Hawaiian air is coming back stopping in Hawaii you need to past immgration there it is no fun they check your luggage before changing to another flight back to SFO.

Fast Eddie 48

People living in the Philippines may well have encountered this type of thug. The local hardboy who backs up his braggadacio with a display of hardware thats more than the normal 4 incher LOL.

[url]http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/71323/american-blames-spat-with-byron-for-anxiety[/url]

Note the reporting also. The American is "blamed" in the heading.

Never mind the idiot with the loud mouth and the louder gun.

Maybe the Fat Ambassador might have something to say about this instead of his more recent ramblings.

Lovely tongue in cheek article prompted by the Fat Ambassador of Fatland's comments.

[url]http://globalnation.inquirer.net/14641/sex-tourism-diplomatic-ouch[/url]

[quote=fifty pesos;1204016]most foreign men do come to philippines for sex. you don't need any statistical data to back this up. if not for sex i am sure it's not to take in the amazing architecture or fine cuisine.[/quote]oh yeah? why don't you run off like the 'educated' filipinos defending their pride calling all westerners as "****s". as you can see in many local forums, and going on to say "we don't need any tourists, as all tourists are ****s". lol.

and i normally ask them to simply ban all tourists, so problem solved. right? no can do, as the country needs tourists, and as per a conservative estimate, tourists smitten by their girl friends are remitting a conservative amount of at least 500 milllion or more.

catch 22 mate.

probably you should step away from angeles and see the other parts of the country, where you don't find 'sex workers' like you are implying.

or maybe you were the one that the hon ambassador was talking about lol

[QUOTE=FreebieFan; 1203993]Lovely tongue in cheek article prompted by the Fat Ambassador of Fatland's comments.

[url]http://globalnation.inquirer.net/14641/sex-tourism-diplomatic-ouch[/url][/QUOTE]I told you scientific research is why I live here. One day I write my book for you all to read.

A question for all of you; its illegal to P4P in Philly but in reality, has anyone here been harassed by the police or authority? Is it totally safe to P4P in Philly? Whats the worst thing that can happen?

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1204182]I told you scientific research is why I live here. One day I write my book for you all to read.[/QUOTE]Thanks to the power of ISG and the howls of protest on this and similar site the FAt Ambassador yesterday apologised.

See todays Inquirer.

Ambassador stated he goes out incognito and only gets laid four times per ten girls he approaches, so based on that piece of powerful analysis and deduction he concluded and extrapolated that the four out ten rule probably applies.

We all say thankyou for apologising now go back to doing what you do best Mr ambassador. Fried chicken anyone!

Sadly, the reason for some mongers' outrage at the ambassador's statement is because they are exactly the type of men he was talking about. Dudes who come to the Philippines with suitcases filled with used cell phones, cheap lingerie, candy, dildos and dog collars are not there to enjoy the wonderful views, pristine beaches, world class cuisine, and efficient transportation. Judging from all of the whining about dishonest taxi drivers, bad service, directionally challenged pedestrians, corrupt authorities, unreliable utilities, shoddy infrastructure, tardiness of natives, and on and on, it is quite obvious that the members of this forum are here for one thing only, young Filipina vagina.

The photos of vaginally orally anally defiled Filipinas posted on the board serve as a testament to the activities of male visitors to the Philippines. ISG sex tourists announce their plans to visit for sex then compile titillating reports giving blow by blow accounts of their sexual escapades. It is hypocritical to the point of being ridiculous for a sex tourist be outraged at the ambassador pointing out the obvious. No, the outrage has nothing to do with the accuracy of the ambassador's comment. The anger comes from the fact that he dared to point a finger in the great unwashed face of sex tourism and call for its prosecution. He turned on the light, pulled back the blanket and the cockroaches went scurry madly for cover. Everyone knows that business travel to the Philippines is a euphemism for sex travel. Perhaps, someone's wife read the ambassador's comments and asked some awkward questions. As the saying goes, 'Birds and beasts when brought to bay will use their claws and teeth. '

"the wonderful views, pristine beaches, world class cuisine, and efficient transportation."

Chocha Monger, I don't know exactly when you went off your medication and went to work for a not-for-profit rescue agency run by imperialist tools, but you need to get back on the meds and maybe try to extricate your head from your rectal cavity. What are you, born again or something?"The great unwashed face of sex tourism?" Maybe Michelle Bachman hijacked your ISG password. Spaniards and Portuguese sailed the seas and rammed their religion down the throats in these places, while hypocritically impregnating the women, and now you have an archipelago of brothels, a population of abandoned bastards, and the poverty that lies in the wake of failed colonialism. In the short term an infusion of foreign capital is needed.

So how many of you out there want to risk your capital in a place with this level of corruption and bullshit? Right, I didn't think so. Therefore the long term solution is hard to define but in the short to medium run, mongers or "sex tourists" or whatever you want to label them are part of the solution more than they are part of the problem.

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger;1204288]Sadly, the reason for some mongers' outrage at the ambassador's statement is because they are exactly the type of men he was talking about. Dudes who come to the Philippines with suitcases fill.[/QUOTE]Boring. Are you implying that all mongers are in ISG? Or ISG is a 100% accurate represention of the tourists visiting Philippines, including those who can't write in English? Wow. Jackson must be thrilled.

And as per my last post, just shut out all tourists, and problem solved. A friend asked, when he travels to Manila, for his company's factory visit, he gets laid, so does he go into the 'sex tourist' category or not?

And another, who is a keen diver, asked, that every time he heads to Philippines for Scuba diving, he gets enticed by girls, some married, and just looking for fun with a foreigner. Do they fall into the sex-tourist category?

Well, me, while am not heading explicitly for sex, when I head to Manila to conduct training / and customer visits, do get offered a night of company, which I sometimes take, sometimes don't, do I fall into the sex tourist category?

Omeprazol: what can happen? As many a foreigner has found out, but dare not tell: the cops charge "YOU" for [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url], and make you the pimp.

Know a dozen such case like that, and a 50,000 or 100,000 peso 'fine' settles it.

So it is for drug buyers, when caught in a police op, the local seller is downgraded to buyer and the foreign buyer gets upgraded to seller / agent / drug kingpin. Etc. Etc.

PS: if the american embassy staff are using ISG as a yardstick, they should be fired, for a start. And shows how lax the US Embassy is, in terms of internet policing LOL

What did the ambassador say, 50% of single male tourists to Philippines are sex tourists?
Hmm I don't have hard data, but this isn't far from the truth.
If you include all the male tourists who are here for business but do some mongering in spare time, that figure is closer to 80%
Do you know any single male visitors who left the place without getting laid? I dont know any.

[quote=fast buck artist; 1204331]what did the ambassador say. 50% of single male tourists to philippines are sex tourists?

. .[/quote]he didn't actually say anything about this in his prepared speech that was delivered.

by all accounts he made the comment and included statistics when he was responding during the discussion that followed, and naturally enough, the journalists who were there jumped on it and reported it widely and ignored everything else that was said.

the whole thing would have died if everybody hadn't jumped on the wagon and kept repeating his comments, and i include isg people in that. now sex tourism is once again a major topic for conversation and that cannot possibly be a good thing.

it can only be a negative for monger activity as more attention will now be given to unaccompanied males visiting the phils and an effort made to find out where they go and what they do. don't underestimate the influence that the us government has in this country through the power of the foreign aid given here. the phils government cannot afford to have any reduction in the level of us aid and they will be very worried by the impending cuts that the usa is foreshadowing in its foreign aid budgets. they will want to be seen to be cooperating in any research in this area.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt;1204335]It can only be a negative for monger activity as more attention will now be given to unaccompanied males visiting the Phils and an effort made to find out where they go and what they do. Don't underestimate the influence that the US government has in this country through the power of the foreign aid given here. The Phils government cannot afford to have any reduction in the level of US aid and they will be very worried by the impending cuts that the USA is foreshadowing in its foreign aid budgets. They will want to be seen to be cooperating in any research in this area.[/QUOTE]Its hardly a secret most single male travellers come here for sex. What can they do about it, ask at the airport - sir are you a sex tourist? should we check your bags for dildoes and lingerie? :)

Speaking of US foreign aid, there was an interesting and hilarious poll of americans where they asked them if they think the budget deficit should be reduced and what items should be included in the reductions. While the majority said yes budget needs a reduction, oh but don't touch medicare, or military spending, or social security, or education, or anything that actually matters! . Well there was ONE item in the list the majority could agree that needs to be cut. Yes, US foreign aid!

http://www.gallup.com/poll/145790/Americans-Oppose-Cuts-Education-Social-Security-Defense.aspx

Good for you. I co-authored a book, and it acutally made me some money.

What language will you use? I assume it is not English when you write,"one day I write my book"

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1204182]I told you scientific research is why I live here. One day I write my book for you all to read.[/QUOTE]

MANILA, Philippines (AP) — The USA ambassador to the Philippines has apologized for his recent statement that 40 percent of male tourists visit the country for sex, a government spokesman said Saturday.

Ambassador Harry Thomas sent a cellphone text message Friday to Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario, who was on a visit to Vietnam, expressing regret for his comments, foreign affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said.

"I should not have used the 40 percent statistic without the ability to back it up. I regret any harm that I may have caused," Thomas said in the text message, which Hernandez forwarded to journalists.

USA Embassy spokeswoman Tina Malone said Saturday that Thomas "offered his deep regret" for his comment. She said the United States would continue to be a "strong and dedicated partner of the Filipino people in combating the global scourges of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] and sexual tourism."

Thomas' remark last month angered some officials who questioned its basis and said it tarnished the country's image.

After addressing a discussion on [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] in the Philippines on Sept. 22, Thomas also told journalists that the sex tourists included Americans and that it was "something I'm not proud of." He urged Philippine authorities to prosecute all foreign sex tourists, including Americans.

The Philippines is trying to revive its tourism industry and erase its 1980s reputation as a major destination for sex tourists.

As a former USA colony, the Philippines hosted American bases until the early 1990s, and communities around the military facilities became liberty towns and havens for prostitution that catered to American service members.

Earlier this past week, Justice Secretary Leila de Lima wrote Thomas seeking data to back up his remarks after the ambassador said the Justice Department was the source of his information.

De Lima told reporters such comments from a diplomat were offensive and demeaning since they portrayed the Philippines as a "country of sex workers."

[QUOTE=Fifty Pesos; 1204016]Get a life. You have been slugging off at this American Ambassador on thread after thread. Christening him fat as if you couldn't afford to lose a few pounds and you're damn self. I don't understand what about his comments pissed you and other 'mongers' off so much. Most foreign men do come to Philippines for sex. You don't need any statistical data to back this up. If not for sex I am sure it's not to take in the amazing architecture or fine cuisine.

In regards to your article foreigners need to realize this is not the West. Keep your head down and mind your business. He may well be deported and have leave his wife and property behind due to arguing with a powerful local because of this 'Western Pride. '

This is not Kansas.[/QUOTE]I've no idea where the heck Kansas is and don't need to find out. The guy representing presumably your country strayed into waters that the Philippines, and Filipinos found offensive. I have a great life and its filled with lots of sweet young girls. As for my my weight, same as past 20 years. Don't talk about what you don't know. This aint Huddersfield. Oh and maybe its a spellcheck thing, but the more common well known well used phrase is " slagging off". Maybe people from Kansarse use " slugging off " LOL

Well, now we know why Ex-man was gaining experiences at Tarzan Boy. He was doing field research and using his life experiences as fodder for the gay erotic novella he co-authored. It must be a hell of a way to make a living. At least he was honest enough to acknowledge his lack of talent made a primary author necessary.

[quote=red kilt; 1204335]he didn't actually say anything about this in his prepared speech that was delivered.

by all accounts he made the comment and included statistics when he was responding during the discussion that followed, and naturally enough, the journalists who were there jumped on it and reported it widely and ignored everything else that was said.

the whole thing would have died if everybody hadn't jumped on the wagon and kept repeating his comments, and i include isg people in that. now sex tourism is once again a major topic for conversation and that cannot possibly be a good thing.

it can only be a negative for monger activity as more attention will now be given to unaccompanied males visiting the phils and an effort made to find out where they go and what they do. don't underestimate the influence that the us government has in this country through the power of the foreign aid given here. the phils government cannot afford to have any reduction in the level of us aid and they will be very worried by the impending cuts that the usa is foreshadowing in its foreign aid budgets. they will want to be seen to be cooperating in any research in this area.[/quote]rk you are totally correct of course in seeing the larger picture in this. however on a macro level all diplomats are told that they should never ever comment on matters of sex / sex habits / sexual culture in host countries. its diplomacy 101. the fact that his apology is mentioned in uk daily telegraph and guardian, taipei times, south china morning post, irish times and presumably every other international newspaper of merit indicates that there are very clear reasons why ambassadors should never make such comments. the comments themselves attract unnecessary attention and diplomacy (as you know better than me) is the art of not attracting attention but doing things " diplomatically". his wings were clipped and for sure he will keep his comments about sex in the philippines to himself in the future.

For what it is worth, there are more prostitutes per head of population in Australia than there are in the Philippines.

My little town has a government approved and registered brothel.

I can get any kind of sex that I want, any day, any time. Just a phone call away.

There is almost a page every day in my local newspaper of prostitutes offering their services.

And the largest sex tour in the world is in Australia. It is the Gay and lesbian Mardi Gras, and it is supported by government.

I guess that the figures are similar for the US.

So before the goodie goodies fix up sex tourism in the Philippines, maybe they can fix the prostitution "problem" in their own countries first.

G

[QUOTE=X Man; 1204414]Good for you. I co-authored a book, and it acutally made me some money.

What language will you use? I assume it is not English when you write,"one day I write my book"[/QUOTE]How about I get to live in PI have pussy every day while you just dream about it. I never did read your gay book but you must proud. Who would waste the time writing a book when you can live in pussy heaven.

But you said you were going to write a book. Don't change your mind just because you got a little teasing from the X Man.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1204590]How about I get to live in PI have pussy every day while you just dream about it. I never did read your gay book but you must proud. Who would waste the time writing a book when you can live in pussy heaven.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gangles;1204582]For what it is worth, there are more prostitutes per head of population in Australia than there are in the Philippines.[/QUOTE]
And how exactly did they come up with that statistic, interviewed every filipina and asked her if she is a prostitute? :)
Prostitution is legal in Australia and illegal in Philippines, duh, of course there will be more prostis Reported where they are out in the open daylight

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1204578]RK you are totally correct of course in seeing the larger picture in this. However on a macro level all diplomats are told that they should never ever comment on matters of sex / sex habits / sexual culture in host countries. Its Diplomacy 101. The fact that his apology is mentioned in UK Daily Telegraph and Guardian, Taipei Times, South China Morning Post, Irish Times and presumably every other international newspaper of merit indicates that there are very clear reasons why Ambassadors should never make such comments. The comments themselves attract unnecessary attention and diplomacy (as you know better than me) is the art of not attracting attention but doing things " diplomatically". His wings were clipped and for sure he will keep his comments about sex in the Philippines to himself in the future.[/QUOTE]Agreed FF and no question that his comment was not "diplomatic". He is now very aware of that.

However, I cannot help feeling that he will now do whatever he can, albeit quietly and out of sight, to vindicate his comments in some way (as most males when caught out and backed into a corner tend to do).

Whatever pressure he brings to bear and whatever support he gives to the Senators who are making noises about the scale of prostitution in this country, it cannot be a good thing for the mongers who rely on organised venues (like Burgos and AC for example) for their kicks.

For you and I who choose alternative pools and abhor both afore-mentioned places, absolutely nothing will change.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1204932].

However, I cannot help feeling that he will now do whatever he can, albeit quietly and out of sight, to vindicate his comments in some way (as most males when caught out and backed into a corner tend to do).[/QUOTE]I posted this link on the Manila thread but in the interests of sequencing it should be reposted here.

As I predicted in an earlier Post # 5127 in this thread yesterday, the focus is now squarely on the issue of Sex Tourism in the Philippines.

The Al Jazeera network has weighed in now with a full-blown 25 minute discussion on the issue on its "Inside Story" segment.

I saw it today on the ANC news channel today and found the following link on the Al Jazeera webpage for the full discussion.

[url]http://english.aljazeera.net/program.858495767.html[/url]

The NGOs love it. Notice how they morph the subject into focusing on "slavery" and child prostitution, using the terms "used and exploited". It reminds me of the NGO organized raids on the nightclubs in Cebu searching for under-aged and trafficked girls and coming up empty handed. The sour faced guy in London who was pushing NGOs as a replacement for "faulty Philippine institutions" was using a teleprompter.

"I guess that the figures are similar for the US."

Ummmm, no.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1204981]I posted this link on the Manila thread but in the interests of sequencing it should be reposted here.

As I predicted in an earlier Post # 5127 in this thread yesterday, the focus is now squarely on the issue of Sex Tourism in the Philippines.

The Al Jazeera network has weighed in now with a full-blown 25 minute discussion on the issue on its "Inside Story" segment.

I saw it today on the ANC news channel today and found the following link on the Al Jazeera webpage for the full discussion.

[url]http://english.aljazeera.net/program.858495767.html[/url][/QUOTE]This kind of publicity usually results in MORE sex tourists coming over. I am not sure if thats a good or bad thing, depends on your prospective. More sextourists means prices might rise, but that in turn will attract more girls to "the oldest profession".

[QUOTE=Fast Buck Artist;1205566]This kind of publicity usually results in MORE sex tourists coming over. I am not sure if thats a good or bad thing, depends on your prospective. More sextourists means prices might rise, but that in turn will attract more girls to "the oldest profession".[/QUOTE]Excellent marketing by the US embassy. The Philippines should pay this guy more to stick his head out.

[QUOTE=Bloomberg;1205612]Excellent marketing by the US embassy. The Philippines should pay this guy more to stick his head out.[/QUOTE]Or his gut. Ooops.

Or when the retirement pay just can't buy a little action.

Let the "dog" jokes begin.

[url]http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2011/06/florida_man_arrested_after_his.php[/url]

[QUOTE=FreebieFan; 1205880]Or when the retirement pay just can't buy a little action.

Let the "dog" jokes begin.

[url]http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2011/06/florida_man_arrested_after_his.php[/url][/QUOTE]Hahaha. Bulldog!

In cebu we have a club already called bulldog. Last time I was there they looked like they had hired the local dogs to work that bar. Hehehe

[QUOTE=David_33;1204993]The NGOs love it. Notice how they morph the subject into focusing on "slavery" and child prostitution, using the terms "used and exploited". It reminds me of the NGO organized raids on the nightclubs in Cebu searching for under-aged and trafficked girls and coming up empty handed. The sour faced guy in London who was pushing NGOs as a replacement for "faulty Philippine institutions" was using a teleprompter.[/QUOTE]The reporter and at least one of the "experts" interviewed in the story that RK linked did play very loosely with terminology, moving carelessly from "slavery" to child exploitation, to trafficking, "people being held against their will," and "dehumanization." Unfortunately, it's difficult for those of us on our side of the equation to be able to draw attention to the overblown aspects of the script--because in doing so we draw undesirable attention to our participation in the hobby. But it's also important not to throw all NGOs under the bus. In general, NGOs attract people who want to make a difference, and, like people everywhere, including on ISG, many of them end up buying into overly simplistic explanations of how things work in the world. And then some of them become passionate cheerleaders for these overly simplistic narratives. But I hold out some hope. I will try to attach a story here that showed up in The Economist last November that cites some very thoughtful observations from Human Rights Watch-to the effect that cracking down on "trafficking" both ignores the underlying causal dynamics (e.g., poverty) and often leads to police brutality against prostitutes and forcing sex work underground, where prostitutes are much more vulnerable. Human Rights Watch is, as I recall, an NGO.

Meanwhile, an article in the current Utne Reader cites a BBC poll that found "71% in favor of greater social acceptance" (of prostitution) and an online CNBC poll that "found 85 percent in favor of decriminalization." Maybe better days are coming.

[QUOTE=Skip Kost;1205959]But it's also important not to throw all NGOs under the bus.[/QUOTE]I would prefer to throw them under their four wheel drive vehicles, after they leave a five star restaurant on their way to their 5 star hotel. A brief visit to Haiti will prove my point.

I would cynically postulate that they wouldn't want to end trafficking because it would end their salaries and 5 star lifestyle. But that's just MHO.

Now that doesn't sound very nice D 33.

But it does bring back memories of Puerto o Prince. At the tender age of 18 it was revealed to me that my American poverty was actually not so bad at all, had my first good black lovin', and took a tour of a rum factory up on the hill.

I need a calendar and notes to know what I did last week and what I have to do in the coming week, but I remember so much of that trip some thirty years ago. X.

[QUOTE=David_33; 1205979]I would prefer to throw them under their four wheel drive vehicles, after they leave a five star restaurant on their way to their 5 star hotel. A brief visit to Haiti will prove my point.

I would cynically postulate that they wouldn't want to end trafficking because it would end their salaries and 5 star lifestyle. But that's just MHO.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=David_33;1205979]I would prefer to throw them under their four wheel drive vehicles, after they leave a five star restaurant on their way to their 5 star hotel. A brief visit to Haiti will prove my point. I would cynically postulate that they wouldn't want to end trafficking because it would end their salaries and 5 star lifestyle. But that's just MHO.[/QUOTE]David,

You make two good points: first, that NGO executive salaries—and the lifestyles they purchase-are often an irritant when displayed in the developing countries they propose to serve; second, that NGOs contributed to the mess in Haiti. I agree on both points, but both also need to be qualified.

Haiti has been characterized as NGOs and the UN run amok. The new Haitian president claims that the post-disaster philanthropic outpouring is all spent. It's not clear how he knows that, but we can take him at his word. It seems to me, however, that it's sort of a chicken-and-egg problem: no functional government, too many NGOs working with haphazard regard for each others' activities. Both are part of the problem, but which one is the 'cause' of the mess? Some are now insisting that the NGOs need to get out of the way and let government play the role it's supposed to play. Right! Just like it's been doing since the sugar plantation slaves revolted against the plantation owners in the late 18th Century. How's that worked out over the ensuing 200 plus years?

Regarding CEO salaries, I found one source, whose legitimacy I can't substantiate, reporting that the 'average' NGO CEO's salary is $97,000. Seems like a lot of money, but I'd be willing to bet that's a mean salary—calculated by dividing the sum of all salaries by the number of salaries. Mean salaries are notoriously skewed toward the few huge salaries at the top end. Median salary—the point at which 50% of salaries are larger and 50% are smaller—is most certainly less than $97K. In addition, the data for high end salaries are necessarily more reliable than for low end salaries, since the latter come from the odds and ends of little organizations operating on shoestring budgets, voluntary labor, and unreliable records.

Please consider the range of organizations that fall under the vague definition of nongovernmental organization. The World Bank characterizes NGOs as private organizations that pursue principally humanitarian or cooperative, rather than commercial, objectives, such as relieving suffering, alleviating poverty, protecting the environment, providing basic social services, or promoting community development—primarily in developing countries. They run the gamut from World Vision, ostensibly the largest international NGO ($1.03 billion annual revenues in their latest tax return), down to little community-based organizations with one or two feebly-paid, mostly voluntary, leaders. I have no particular truck with World Vision; they're a Christian organization and I've been an avowed agnostic for more than 40 years. But their annual report brochure claims that they delivered disaster relief for 80 international emergencies, developed clean water sources in Africa, provided thousands of small business loans, promoted HIV / AIDS prevention education, and provided 4 million child sponsorships. Their annual report brochure contains not a single whisper about [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] or sexual exploitation. And this is the biggest NGO in the world. They paid their CEO, Richard Stearns, $391K: a lot of money, but not when compared to for-profit corporations with similar revenues. Admittedly, if Richard Stearns came to Manila, he'd stay at Shangri-La in Makati or Ortigas, but his ostentatious comings and goings make him look like just another rich Kano to the few Filipinos who'd see him.

At the other end of the scale is the little community-based NGO I know in a municipality just outside metro Manila. It operates on a shoestring, with four poorly paid employees, trying to create disaster readiness for squatter communities built in the low-lying flood plains of two rivers. They also promote sustainable small-scale business and maintain a revolving micro-finance loan program. They live on small government grants and money infused from a couple of large international NGOs. Their CEO is becoming known as an expert on the impact of disasters on informal settlements, and he knows how to do community organizing, but he's seen as a threatening irritant to corrupt local politicians who regard the squatters as collateral damage that's unavoidable in their continued pursuit of public financial largesse. He is not our enemy, any more than Richard Stearns is.

So why this chocolate-hearted rant from Skip about NGOs? Because it matters what we do with our annoyance about the efforts of some to attack sex trafficking in the most simplistic and misguided fashion. Sex trafficking does exist in the Philippines, but the careless characterizations of some zealots make it appear that all sex for pay here is synonymous with exploited women and children. It matters how we respond to them.

Not all NGOs are the enemy; in fact, most are not. And even in an NGO like Human Rights Watch, there appears to be a growing awareness that the dynamics are more complicated than what's often conveyed in the popular press. Surely much of the anti-trafficking passion is fomented by a segment of feminists and by fundamentalist religious do-gooders. And then there are the many others who ride along on the wave of passionate rhetoric without really reflecting on its inconsistencies. There is also a mass of journalists who have had little incentive to think critically about the complex dynamics of sexuality, pay for play, and world poverty.

I will shut up now and let others offer their critique and suggestions, but I think that branding NGOs as the generic enemy is not a particularly helpful course of action.

X, even those of us for whom chocolate flows through our hearts and heads like to get a little flowing over the little head as well from time to time. You helped me bring back fond memories of my own first chocolate.

[QUOTE=Skip Kost; 1206316]. < SNIP

I will shut up now and let others offer their critique and suggestions, but I think that branding NGOs as the generic enemy is not a particularly helpful course of action.[/QUOTE]Way too much eloquent analysis for a monger board Skip. You should send it to the Letters section of the NY Times.

It will go way over the head of 99. (something) % of readers here.

Cheers and see you soon, but let's talk about less serious things

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1206325]Way too much eloquent analysis for a monger board Skip. You should send it to the Letters section of the NY Times.

It will go way over the head of 99. (something) % of readers here.

Cheers and see you soon, but let's talk about less serious things[/QUOTE]Did some work in the past for a NGO as a freelancer. Most of the people working for this organization were making long hours for little money, but were very happy with their job since they were convinced their actions were helping the world moving forward. However, the people who managed the finances of this NGO were a little bit different, they were having hard times raising funds and they were aware that as soon as the income dries up, the future of the NGO is at stake, Most NGO's can go bankrupt like any other organization.

The financial guy once told me at diner after a couple of drinks that they were competing with other NGO's for the same funds. To improve their position in line they were "pimping" data. Overdoing the data when it came to the problems and also overdoing the results of their efforts. Once there is a cake to be shared, people will be fighting for it. Compare the brochures and websites of NGO's active in the same area. A lot of them are attributing the same success to their efforts.

In my opinion, NGO's are overall doing a nice job. Of course, there are some people taking advantage of them. Sleeping in a hotel where the rate is equivalent to the budget of the local organization does not feel very nice if you are working there or are sponsoring the club.

But OK, let's go back to pussy business. For me so far, girls in the Philippines are top of the bill when it comes to a real GFE. I moved around the world quite a bit but so far never experienced "dating" like here in the Philippines, actually I am seriously considering moving here for at least 6 months of the year. If any NGO is still looking for a CEO who is willing to do some field work himself, let me know!

[QUOTE=Red Kilt;1206325]You should send it to the Letters section of the NY Times.[/QUOTE]Not imaginative enough to know how to do that without exposing my naughty hobby.

Nicely done Skip. I think the portrayal of NGOs as "the enemy" is as simplistic (and inaccurate) as most of the pontificating typically appearing in the press regarding human trafficing. The fact is that trafficing covers a huge range of deplorable human activity, with root causes that are far too complex, and too interactive to permit simplistic explanations or solutions. Further, as you so eloquently point out, not all-and probably not even most-sex workers are victims of trafficing. However, with those caveats in mind, it does appear to me that those whose shrill voices are most often raised about the subject seem obsessed with attacking the symptoms, rather than the etiology of the disase. In the Philippines, the major causes of trafficing in most spheres; sex workers, child laborers, child soliders, for example, is overwhelming poverty, government indifference to expanding economic opportunities, a wretched education system, and pervasive government corruption coupled with weak, ineffective institutions run by poorly trained people. Unless and until these conditions-which interact with each other-are alleviated, the problem will persist no matter how many bars are raided, and no matter how many factories are shut down.

Attacking causess rather than symptoms however, is a long, difficult job that requires political will, focus and commitment. It doesn't garner flashy headlines or snippets of broadcast time and it's not glamorous or made for television. It will not happen here in the near future. Sound bites overlaid against footage of heavily armed police battering down the doors of some bar in Angeles or Manila are much easier, and the fact that such actions have zero impact on the problem is irrelevant to the self-serving poliiticians who underwrite such made-for-televesion dramas. It's important to remember that this is a country in which form triumphs over substance every time. Finally, let's not forget that this is a country that survives on the kindness of strangers, whether via the jobs provided by foreign countries overseas allowing the Philippines to export 10% of its population, or though the grants, programs and loans provided by donors. There's lots of money around now to support anti-trafficing efforts, and if nothing else politicians here are experts in capturing whatever funds are available at the moment. If trafficing is the flavor du jour, then the politicians here will become avid anti-trafficing proponents until the next big thing somes along.

GE

[quote=skip kost;1206316]you make two good points: first, that ngo executive salaries—and the lifestyles they purchase-are often an irritant when displayed in the developing countries they propose to serve.[/quote]looked this up online:

[quote=http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_charities_salaries.htm]

the worst offender was yet again for the 11th year in a row is, unicef. ceo, receives $1, 200, 000 per year, (plus use of a royal royce for his exclusive use where ever he goes, and an expense account that is rumored to be well over $150, 000.) only pennies from the actual donations goes to the unicef cause (less than $0. 14 per dollar of income).

the second worst offender this year is marsha j. evans, president and ceo of the american red cross. for her salary for the year ending in 2009 was $651, 957 plus expenses. enjoys 6 weeks. fully paid holidays including all related expenses during the holiday trip for her and her husband and kids. including 100% fully paid health & dental plan for her and her family, for life. this means out of every dollar they bring in, about $0. 39 goes to related charity causes.

the third worst offender was again for the 7th time was, brian gallagher, president of the united way receives a $375, 000 base salary (usa funds) , plus so many numerous expense benefits it's hard to keep track as to what it is all worth, including a fully paid lifetime membership for 2 golf courses (1 in canada, and 1 in the usa) .2 luxury vehicles, a yacht club membership. 3 major company gold credit cards for his personal expenses. and so on. this equates to about $0. 51 per dollar of income goes to charity causes.

fourth worst offender who was also again in the fourth spot, for every year since this information has been made available from the start 1998 is amazingly yet again, world vision president (canada) receives $300, 000 base salary, (plus supplied. a home valued in the $700, 000. $800, 000 dollar value range, completely furnished, completely paid all housing expenses, including taxes, water / sewer, telephone / fax, hd / high speed cable, weekly maid service and pool / yard maintenance, fully paid private schooling for his children, upscale automobile and an $55, 000 personal expense account for clothing / food, with a $125, 000 business expense account). get this, because it is a "religious based" charity, it pays, little to no taxes, can receive government assistance and does not have to declare were the money goes. only about $0. 52 of earned income per dollar is available for charity causes.

of the sixty some odd "charities" we looked at, the lowest paid (president / c. e. o / commissioner) was heading up a charity group right here in canada. we found, believe it or not, it was.

the salvation army's commissioner todd bassett receives a salary of only $13, 000 per year (plus housing) for managing this $2 billion dollar organization. which means about $0. 93 per dollar earned, is readily available and goes back out to local charity causes. truly amazing. and well done "sally anne"
[quote]

makes you wonder why so many give to charities.

slim

In all of the froth and bubbles created about trafficking, there is one very big taboo about the subject.

Arab slavery and islamic slavery.

A simple Google search will get you started.

It is still going on today, Africans taken as slaves by Arabs, and sold as chattels.

However much the NGO's waffle about stopping the trafficking business, none of them will even talk about this cruel trade.

Shame.

G

did you even bother reading the entire article that you linked to? the information that you quoted is bogus.

makes me wonder about the reading comprehension of some people on here.

[quote=nvslim; 1206567]looked this up online:

[quote=[url]http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_charities_salaries.htm[/url]]

the worst offender was yet again for the 11th year in a row is, unicef. ceo, receives $1, 200, 000 per year, (plus use of a royal royce for his exclusive use where ever he goes, and an expense account that is rumored to be well over $150, 000.) only pennies from the actual donations goes to the unicef cause (less than $0. 14 per dollar of income).

the second worst offender this year is marsha j. evans, president and ceo of the american red cross. for her salary for the year ending in 2009 was $651, 957 plus expenses. enjoys 6 weeks. fully paid holidays including all related expenses during the holiday trip for her and her husband and kids. including 100% fully paid health & dental plan for her and her family, for life. this means out of every dollar they bring in, about $0. 39 goes to related charity causes.

the third worst offender was again for the 7th time was, brian gallagher, president of the united way receives a $375, 000 base salary (usa funds) , plus so many numerous expense benefits it's hard to keep track as to what it is all worth, including a fully paid lifetime membership for 2 golf courses (1 in canada, and 1 in the usa).2 luxury vehicles, a yacht club membership. 3 major company gold credit cards for his personal expenses. and so on. this equates to about $0. 51 per dollar of income goes to charity causes.

fourth worst offender who was also again in the fourth spot, for every year since this information has been made available from the start 1998 is amazingly yet again, world vision president (canada) receives $300, 000 base salary, (plus supplied. a home valued in the $700, 000. $800, 000 dollar value range, completely furnished, completely paid all housing expenses, including taxes, water / sewer, telephone / fax, hd / high speed cable, weekly maid service and pool / yard maintenance, fully paid private schooling for his children, upscale automobile and an $55, 000 personal expense account for clothing / food, with a $125, 000 business expense account). get this, because it is a "religious based" charity, it pays, little to no taxes, can receive government assistance and does not have to declare were the money goes. only about $0. 52 of earned income per dollar is available for charity causes.

of the sixty some odd "charities" we looked at, the lowest paid (president / c. e. o / commissioner) was heading up a charity group right here in canada. we found, believe it or not, it was.

the salvation army's commissioner todd bassett receives a salary of only $13, 000 per year (plus housing) for managing this $2 billion dollar organization. which means about $0. 93 per dollar earned, is readily available and goes back out to local charity causes. truly amazing. and well done "sally anne"[/quote]makes you wonder why so many give to charities.

slim[/quote]

Dan's point is correct. This story was being reported as an urban legend that has been around for five or six years. Many of the names are incorrect, as are the salary amounts. Snopes. Com confirms the inaccuracy of the information and adds a little more detail about the charities involved:

[url]http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/charities.asp[/url]

I cannot for the life of me understand why somebody would create such a myth in the first place. The mentality is sort of like pulling a fire alarm when there's no fire, except that most false fire alarms get resolved fairly quickly. These things stick around to do harm for years.

Rule of thumb for potential urban legends on the internet: if a story sounds too incredible, it probably isn't true. Check snopes or one of the other urban legend busting sites before you pass it on to others.

[QUOTE=Skip Kost; 1206820][url]http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/charities.asp[/url]

Rule of thumb for potential urban legends on the internet: if a story sounds too incredible, it probably isn't true. Check snopes or one of the other urban legend busting sites before you pass it on to others.[/QUOTE]OK, so according to this Snopes, the american red cross ceo gets 500K instead of 650K as claimed by Charity Navigator. Is this a really important difference? The point is that the managers of these organisations are running them as a for-profit business (and should be Taxed and Advertised accordingly! Thats the point). In the Philippines I observed the same type of behaviour as David is reporting from Haiti. After the floods a group of 20 american charitymen jetted in to the 5 star hotel I was staying at, and were enjoying a posh lunch downstairs while chatting about their fully-paid international travels. They flew in about 5 days after the actual flood. Now what do you think the "efficiency" is for these gentlemens sponsors? The charity probably counts every dollar spent by these guys as a dollar gone to the charity cause. But is it?

Some of this money trickles down no doubt, even if all they did was pork out on 50 dollar steaks and 100 dollar hookers, the guy cooking the steak could have a nephew affected by the flood, or the hooker might be coming from Marikina and needs a room to stay overnight.

I have also encountered some genuinely non-profit charities, where about 80% goes to a good cause, you have to know who runs the operation and how before writing them a check.

Check out this rather heart-warming story about a strategy to teach Mindanao indigenous people about health, and particularly contraception.

I think it might help those guys who persist in calling filipinas "stupid" and uneducated. I prefer to accept that they have simply not been given the opportunities that we have been given.

[url]http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/76889/tree-bark-brew-sleeping-with-daughters-other-[/url]%E2%80%98safe-sex%E2%80%99-tips-on-ride-to-good-health

[QUOTE=Gangles;1206704]It is still going on today, Africans taken as slaves by Arabs, and sold as chattels.[/QUOTE]You forgot to say what happens to most of the children: they are used as jockeys in Camel racing, and it is common to see one or two child die during the races.

Oh, does such a thing happen? If you believe the mainstream media, even the kidnapping and forced slavery of Eastern Europeans too don't happen.

[QUOTE=Skip Kost; 1206820]Dan's point is correct. This story was being reported as an urban legend that has been around for five or six years. Many of the names are incorrect, as are the salary amounts. Snopes. Com confirms the inaccuracy of the information and adds a little more detail about the charities involved:

[url]http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/charities.asp[/url][/QUOTE]I stand corrected.

Slim

[QUOTE=Fast Buck Artist;1206843]I have also encountered some genuinely non-profit charities, where about 80% goes to a good cause, you have to know who runs the operation and how before writing them a check.[/QUOTE]I agree with this point, and fortunately there are numerous mechanisms that give transparency to the nonprofit sector (at least in the USA) , including Charity Navigator (itself a nonprofit organization) , Forbes, and most state governments, who prepare reports on individual charities regarding the proportions of revenues that go to program services, overhead, and fund raising, respectively. Sign up for a free membership in Guidestar (also a nonprofit) , and you can retrieve the annual tax returns of any USA nonprofit with more than 25K in revenues. For all the warts and occasional extravagance among nonprofit execs, I would challenge you to find a parallel set of mechanisms that provide this kind of transparency to average Americans about Exxon-Mobil, GM, or any of the major Wall Street banks, yet we're bombarded from them with incessant advertising aimed to make you believe that clean energy, low-pollution cars, and financial stability for the world economy are their number one priorities. Virtually nobody challenges them on these claims.

Both Charity Navigator and Forbes gave high efficiency scores to the organizations highlighted in the urban legend. I too wish that highly skilled and experienced leaders would voluntarily step forward to lead these organizations on minimal salaries, but why should they? The American National Red Cross had revenues of nearly $3. 6 billion in their most recent tax return. How much do you think an American $3. 6B for-profit firm pays in executive salaries?

This has gotten rather far afield from the original question of the role of NGOs in the human sex trafficking debate. FBA, if you pm me I'd be glad to carry on the discussion in pm where it won't distract others.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1206896]Check out this rather heart-warming story about a strategy to teach Mindanao indigenous people about health, and particularly contraception.

I think it might help those guys who persist in calling filipinas "stupid" and uneducated. I prefer to accept that they have simply not been given the opportunities that we have been given.

[url]http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/76889/tree-bark-brew-sleeping-with-daughters-other-[/url]

%E2%80%98safe-sex%E2%80%99-tips-on-ride-to-good-health[/QUOTE]Thanks for posting this RK. Keeping poor people in perpetual ignorance about reproductive health and contraception seems to be in the interest of the catholic church, whose influence is directly proportional to the number of poor, ignorant people whose behavior (and voting patterns) it can control. I believe it's one of the most corrpt institutions in the country and so blatantly hypocritical in its alleged concern for the poor that I'm surprised it hasn't been written about more. Conrad de Quiros, the wonderful left wing columnist from the Inquirer does occasionally take this as the subject of a column but he's about the only one I know of who does.

GE

[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-13/what-i-learned-about-migrant-sex-workers-by-being-one-part-1-parrenas.html[/url]

From Bloomberg News.

"the number of Filipina hostesses employed as contract workers in Japan fell 90 percent, from 82, 741 in 2004 to 8, 607 in 2006. I argue it poses a setback to the emancipation of women. It has stripped thousands of migrant women of their livelihood, forcing them to stay at home, often in impoverished conditions."

[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1207129]Thanks for posting this RK. Keeping poor people in perpetual ignorance about reproductive health and contraception seems to be in the interest of the catholic church, whose influence is directly proportional to the number of poor, ignorant people whose behavior (and voting patterns) it can control. I believe it's one of the most corrpt institutions in the country and so blatantly hypocritical in its alleged concern for the poor that I'm surprised it hasn't been written about more. Conrad de Quiros, the wonderful left wing columnist from the Inquirer does occasionally take this as the subject of a column but he's about the only one I know of who does.

GE[/QUOTE]I wholeheartedly agree with you. Totally right. The other thing is the Catholic Church is an incredibly rich organisation in the Philippines with large real estate holdings. However it permananently pleads poverty saying it has no money. And this is true, as all the income it generates in Phlippines is repatriated to Rome. Where presumably it goes to pay off the numerous court cases that the Catholic church is currently involved in.

[QUOTE=Jambo; 1207203][url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-13/what-i-learned-about-migrant-sex-workers-by-being-one-part-1-parrenas.html[/url]

From Bloomberg News.

"the number of Filipina hostesses employed as contract workers in Japan fell 90 percent, from 82, 741 in 2004 to 8, 607 in 2006. I argue it poses a setback to the emancipation of women. It has stripped thousands of migrant women of their livelihood, forcing them to stay at home, often in impoverished conditions."[/QUOTE]Excellent article nice work jambo

[QUOTE=Jambo; 1207203"the number of Filipina hostesses employed as contract workers in Japan fell 90 percent, from 82, 741 in 2004 to 8, 607 in 2006. I argue it poses a setback to the emancipation of women. It has stripped thousands of migrant women of their livelihood, forcing them to stay at home, often in impoverished conditions."[/QUOTE]

Yes, a nice find Jambo. It's obvious the author has been studying these dynamics for many years, and much of her work is focused specifically on Filipinas. Her university website depicts her as a "feminist." This suggests it's important to dig beneath the surface of labels. I'm actually kind of inspired by her work. So what does it take to inject critical thinking like this into the trafficking hoopla? Here's a link to her university website. Check out her "Curriculum Vitae."

[url]http://dornsife.usc.edu/cf/soci/soci_faculty_display.cfm?Person_ID=1032936[/url]

Interesting CV but more importantly she looks like she would be a pretty good fuck.

So if you go reading the threads of eastern european countries, and ukraine, you will find guys boasting about rather high prices. $150-$250USD (and up) for ST. The gals are pretty, I'm sure. But that's more than girls are going for in my neck of the woods in the States. I think you can beat the pinay in many respects, but how many places can you find young honies to spend the night for $50? For as much as its easy to gripe about the corrupt. 3rd-world place that is pinas, viva la pinay!

[QUOTE=Dickhead;1207401]Interesting CV but more importantly she looks like she would be a pretty good fuck.[/QUOTE]My thought as well, but I thought I'd leave her photo as a little hidden surprise for you. I guess it worked.

I'm sure she would be thrilled to know that her personal charms and amatory talents are being discussed on ISG.

[QUOTE=David_33;1207806]I'm sure she would be thrilled to know that her personal charms and amatory talents are being discussed on ISG.[/QUOTE]David,

Picture yourself in a sharp debate about sex roles and sexism with a woman in some sterile professional setting. You disagree with the woman completely, and then somebody tells you she admitted after the fact that through her clenched teeth she found herself mentally undressing you and enjoyed the impression. Wouldn't you be flattered? So, assuming nobody on ISG would actually email this woman to tell her what we're saying about her, aren't we really complimenting her in acknowledging both her professional work and her attractiveness? Obviously she might be a cold, calculating ball-biter, but not all feminists are necessarily asexual misandrists.

[QUOTE=D Cups;1207684]Nice research, SK. This is a quality woman with a remarkable mind and the credentials to prove it. I'd love to see what she's like between the sheets. .[/QUOTE]I'm surprised you'd say that on the basis of a head shot alone.

[QUOTE=Skip Kost;1207857]not all feminists are necessarily asexual misandrists.[/QUOTE]I was thinking that she might actually be flattered in a twisted sort of way.

I am posting this because some people need to be exposed.

Here she goes.

LoveAsian*s

Senior Member.

Reports.

287.

LoveAsian*s.

Re: go back into your hole and stay there.

Originally Posted by Socker.

Originally Posted by LoveAsian*s.

I curse your whole family and hope they all die a horrible death. If I ever come across a female member of your family, I will surely teach her some manners with my cock in her hole. You are disgusting piece of shit, and your mother must be a filthy * to give birth to someone as cursed as yourself.

Go fuck your mother.

My response to the above.

I tried to be nice to you in the past and for some inexplicable reason you keep your fuck-up insulting handle. Everytime you post you insult all the working ladies of Asia. That is why you make me sick, because I respect them and you call them *s. YouR reply to me shows your deep sickness. YOU ARE SICK, GET SOME HELP. OK.

His last response (yesterday) after I posted his threats and sick rant.

It's called sarcasm. You are too stupid to understand the concept. You are a fucking moron.

(I mistakenly posted the pm exchange w / wacko in the Photo Galery). I will finish up here.

To Wacko, You've done very nicely for yourself, thank you. Oh and when you get to be 12 yrs old, maybe things will get better. Good Riddance

Drove past a Jollibee yesterday, right here in California. Had no idea the chain existed outside Phils, but 3pm and the place was packed.

I became mildly turgid.

[QUOTE=Driveallnight; 1208110]Drove past a Jollibee yesterday, right here in California. Had no idea the chain existed outside Phils, but 3pm and the place was packed.

I became mildly turgid.[/QUOTE]There are many in California. I seen on in Eagle Rock Plaza in Glendale California last time I visited. Check out there website. You will be surprised.

[QUOTE=Andre007;1208147]There are many in California. I seen on in Eagle Rock Plaza in Glendale California last time I visited. Check out there website. You will be surprised.[/QUOTE]Hong Kong has one too.

[QUOTE=Driveallnight; 1208110]Drove past a Jollibee yesterday, right here in California. Had no idea the chain existed outside Phils, but 3pm and the place was packed.

I became mildly turgid.[/QUOTE]Jolli has been in Los Angeles for at least a year. Love the spaghetti.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1208252]Hong Kong has one too.[/QUOTE]To Freebie fan

I didn't know HK have one the one in Shenzhen last only 3 month closed down 2 yr ago cannot complete with KFC in China, there are 5 in San francisco CALIF area doing well but price are expensive vs Manila,

Fast Eddie 48

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1208252]Hong Kong has one too.[/QUOTE]There are also branches in Saudi, Qatar and Brunei. I think that I detect some kind of a pattern here but I don't understand the need for Vietnam offshoots of the ghastly orange spagbog machine!

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1208257]Jolli has been in Los Angeles for at least a year. Love the spaghetti.[/QUOTE]Jollibee's has been in the Los Angeles area at least 4 years now.

Truly scary sight if you live around LA: go check out the Eagle Rock Plaza sometime. Closest thing to a Filipino mall stateside. You will find not only Jollibee's, but also Chow King and Goldielocks. Not to mention LBC, M. Lhuillier, Fil-mart and Seafood City.

[QUOTE=Finrod;1208817]Jollibee's has been in the Los Angeles area at least 4 years now.[/QUOTE]There is also a sizable Filipino community in Vegas where you will also fine a couple of stores. Taking the American concept of fast food and 'flipping the script' with 'spam' on the menu! :eek:

The NAIA airport in Manila are rank number one worst big city Int'l airport in the World, worst in security and facility need alot of improvement.

[url]http://globalnation.inquirer.net/15661/naia-1-is-rated-worlds-worst-airport[/url]

Fast Eddie 48

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie 48; 1209685]The NAIA airport in Manila are rank number one worst big city Int'l airport in the World, worst in security and facility need alot of improvement.

[url]http://globalnation.inquirer.net/15661/naia-1-is-rated-worlds-worst-airport[/url]

Fast Eddie 48[/QUOTE]Interesting read. It is amazing how bad air travel is these days. The article includes the "Worst 10: Besides NAIA #1, the following made it to the 10 worst airports in the world: Paris Beauvais in France, Keflavik International Airport in Iceland, Bergamo-Orio al Serio Airport in Italy, Kiev International Airport in Ukraine, Frankfurt-Hahn Airport in Germany, London Luton Airport in the United Kingdom, Pisa Airport in Italy, Paris CDG Airport in France and Los Angeles International Airport in the United States."

In my opinion NAIA is not the worst. Far from it, but then I have only used Terminal 2 and 3. LAX is pretty horrible, and I hate arriving in BKK because the customs lines are a nightmare, but the worst Airport that I have personally experienced is MIA. What a friggin' zoo. The lines (both airline arrival counters and security) are impossible. Count on it taking an hour to get through security. And as if to add insult upon misery; English can only be considered a second language not fluently spoken by a sizeable minority of airport workers. MIA is really an airport you hate using. I tell all my friends that live outside the state of Florida to fly into West Palm Beach airport instead when they come to visit me. On the last 3 trips to Asia, I booked flights out of West Palm to Newark then onto Hong Kong. West Palm is civilized. The difference is unbelievable.

Now let's talk about the worst airlines. On the other hand, let's not.

In the departure area of Cebu they had a television turned on all of the time to one of those National Geographic or Geo channels. On the TV they were playing a show on plane crashes, I could not believe it.

The next time I flew out of Cebu they had another show on about plane crashes, I guess no one complained.

Actually. Naia, Terminal 1 is voted the worst airport to "sleep over" at.

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie 48; 1209685]The NAIA airport in Manila are rank number one worst big city Int'l airport in the World, worst in security and facility need alot of improvement.

[url]http://globalnation.inquirer.net/15661/naia-1-is-rated-worlds-worst-airport[/url]

Fast Eddie 48[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Natty Bumpo; 1209720]Interesting read. It is amazing how bad air travel is these days. The article includes the "Worst 10: Besides NAIA #1, the following made it to the 10 worst airports in the world: Paris Beauvais in France, Keflavik International Airport in Iceland, Bergamo-Orio al Serio Airport in Italy, Kiev International Airport in Ukraine, Frankfurt-Hahn Airport in Germany, London Luton Airport in the United Kingdom, Pisa Airport in Italy, Paris CDG Airport in France and Los Angeles International Airport in the United States."

In my opinion NAIA is not the worst. Far from it, but then I have only used Terminal 2 and 3. LAX is pretty horrible, and I hate arriving in BKK because the customs lines are a nightmare, but the worst Airport that I have personally experienced is MIA. What a friggin' zoo. The lines (both airline arrival counters and security) are impossible. Count on it taking an hour to get through security. And as if to add insult upon misery; English can only be considered a second language not fluently spoken by a sizeable minority of airport workers. MIA is really an airport you hate using. I tell all my friends that live outside the state of Florida to fly into West Palm Beach airport instead when they come to visit me. On the last 3 trips to Asia, I booked flights out of West Palm to Newark then onto Hong Kong. West Palm is civilized. The difference is unbelievable.

Now let's talk about the worst airlines. On the other hand, let's not.[/QUOTE]To Natty

YES LAX is getting old also need many upgrade, the best airport in the world is HKIA, changi Singapore and S korea Icheon, for worst large int'l airline I think the Philippines airline have to be right up there also take it once never again.

Fast Eddie 48

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie 48; 1209982]To Natty

YES LAX is getting old also need many upgrade, the best airport in the world is HKIA, changi Singapore and S korea Icheon, for worst large int'l airline I think the Philippines airline have to be right up there also take it once never again.

Fast Eddie 48[/QUOTE]Even if the rating was for" worst airport for sleeping in " the old NAIA is still very dire. The new one for Cebu pacific is a design disaster. Thecheck in counter are all normal however

1. We pay P750. No one can say whats its for other than "airport use ".

2. There are on plastic bins for shoes belts etc. I always ask why they have in Bangladesh but not in Manila. Sepcially as there was the aforementioned charge of P 750. Theres never an answer for same.

3. The range of restaurants is sooo bad. Everywhere sells cheap over sweet crap. I've been in them all.

4. The announcement are deafening.

5. The moving walkways never move. Doesn't matter whether its 4pm or 4am they are all turned off.

I could carry on but I'm just pleased when its wheels up. Maybe I'm spoilt in good airports like HK Singapore KL but all manila airports are realllllllly poor!

Just yesterday I see the immigration guy turning round to check out the ass of the girl whos passport he had just stamped then gave me a wink wink sort of conspiring look. Sad sad sad.

[QUOTE=Natty Bumpo;1209720]In my opinion NAIA is not the worst. Far from it, but then I have only used Terminal 2 and 3.[/QUOTE]If you haven't been to T1, you dunno what you are missing.

Last week my GF came by T1, at 11. 30 PM, no money changer (all gone home for the day) and no load service.

Well, it doesn't matter, after all, PR and Cebu Pac have taken over the New T2 and T3 and let the foreign airlines look ugly in T1.

Maybe it is the plan of Phil Govt for tourists using anything other than PR and Cebu pac to see the dirty side, the others, to see the nice and squeeky clean T2 / T3 LOL

1. Paro, Bhutan. "A320 VMC only approach / landing. Runway is over 7K ABOVE GROUND LEVEL in mountains. Fly over runway@4K and spiral down into a valley to fly over the river back toward the runway which can't be seen until short final. Runway is about 30 degrees offset from the valley and abuts a hill which must be avoided with a banking turn until over the threshold. Short runway with hard braking, then one of those 180 degree turns on the runway hoping the main-mounts won't sink into the fringe."

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsZqN-uEgQU&feature=youtu.be[/url]

(Paste the link above to check out this video. I think you guys will like it.)

2. Sabu. A small beautiful island in the Caribbean. Arrival or departure from the Sabu airport is better than any amusement ride you will ever take.

3. The old Hong Kong Airport. I only flew into this airport once back in '89. The planes had to come in right over the rooftops of apartment buildings that surrounded the airport. The distance between the plane and the roof tops left no room for error. Words can't describe it. I will never forget it.

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie 48;1209982]Fr worst large int'l airline I think the Philippines airline have to be right up there also take it once never again.Fast Eddie 48[/QUOTE]American Airlines gets my vote for the worst airline in the world. I had some miles accumulate over time with these guys. I used to fly with them to South America. Then one day I received an email that stated I had to buy something from their website or I would forfeit my miles. What BS. But the worst insult came about 5 years ago. I was in Peru with a friend when I received notice that my mom had died. I had several tickets with Taca Airlines to other cities in Peru and an international flight to Quito. I had a return ticket back to MIA with American. Taca gave my friend and I a full refund with no questions asked. American Airlines insisted on charging my friend and I $150 per ticket to change the date of our return flight to MIA. The plane was only 65% occupied.

Of course they were willing to give me a credit for the $150 fee once I provided them with a death certificate later on. My friend was not entitled to this credit. My reaction was fuck you! I will never fly your BS airline again.

But the point of my long story is; I always seem to receive better service from the smaller local outfits than the older established mainline companies. Taca, Lacsa, Lan are all much nicer to fly to SA than the big boys. Similarly, I prefer Air Asia, Cebu Pacific, Bangkok Air over their larger competitors. The smaller upstarts have better pricing and always seem to have prettier stewardess's too. That said, I will be flying Thai Airlines from Manila to BKK soon. For some reason they were offering a great price for the one way ticket so I jumped on the deal. The Cebu Pacific flight time was too late at night.

[QUOTE=Econo Tech; 1210133]If you haven't been to T1, you dunno what you are missing.

Last week my GF came by T1, at 11. 30 PM, no money changer (all gone home for the day) and no load service.

Well, it doesn't matter, after all, PR and Cebu Pac have taken over the New T2 and T3 and let the foreign airlines look ugly in T1.

Maybe it is the plan of Phil Govt for tourists using anything other than PR and Cebu pac to see the dirty side, the others, to see the nice and squeeky clean T2 / T3 LOL[/QUOTE]To Econo tech.

I think you will figure the Phil government care about the image of their own country spend some peso to do some improvement on T1 for the international visiter don't make any sense the domestic terminal have better facilities.

Fast Eddie 48

[QUOTE=Natty Bumpo; 1210196]American Airlines gets my vote for the worst airline in the world. I had some miles accumulate[/quote]To Natty,

I don't think AA is that bad other than alot of delay flight time for US airline Jet blue is worst, I fly to south america from US about 3 time a yr for buinsess with American air line they have the most flight and connections transfer in Miami and I alway transfer by mileage to Cathay pacific so I use my bonus mile fly to HK, Manila or Bangkok.

Fast Eddie 48

[QUOTE=Natty Bumpo; 1210174]1. Paro, Bhutan."A320 VMC only approach / landing. Runway is over 7K ABOVE GROUND LEVEL in[/quote]To Natty,

What the hell are you doing in Bhutan is mongering any good there that is a small airport in the Mountain only handle small plane and only a few flight a day didn't even made the top 10 most danger airport in the world, the old Hk Kai Tai is danger but amazingly very few accident in many yr history there, I grow up in HK and the people there live with having plane fly over their head every day for so long.

Fast Eddie 48

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie 48; 1210352]To Econo tech.

I think you will figure the Phil government care about the image of their own country spend some peso to do some improvement on T1 for the international visiter don't make any sense the domestic terminal have better facilities.

Fast Eddie 48[/QUOTE]You miss the point. All International "AIRLINES" end up in T1, but, all PR / 5J only go to T2 / T3 respectively.T1 is exclusively for NON PR / 5J flights.

Sort of sod the international airlines, SQ / TG / AA and all. Let our local airlines use the better terminals for their flights.

Gents: Am flying Hawaiian Airlines, LA to Manila, thru Honolulu. On the return trip, will I go thru customs / immigration in hawaii, or at LAX? There is only 2. 5 hours between my connecting flights in honolulu.

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie 48; 1210369]To Natty,

What the hell are you doing in Bhutan is mongering any good there that is a small airport in the Mountain only handle small plane and only a few flight a day didn't even made the top 10 most danger airport in the world, the old Hk Kai Tai is danger but amazingly very few accident in many yr history there, I grow up in HK and the people there live with having plane fly over their head every day for so long.

Fast Eddie 48[/QUOTE]Hi Fast Eddie,

I was doing some trekking in Bhutan. The scenery is spectacular and pristine. It's more beautiful in my opinion than Nepal with all its deforestation. I laughed when I read the words mongering and Bhutan in the same sentence. Although I guess you can get laid anywhere if you have a mind to. There is even a Bhutan thread here on the ISG. I like to trek in Peru and Bolivia too. In Lima and Santa Cruz you will find a decent mongering scene, but when you arrive in Huaras, for example, the last large town before one of my favorite trail heads; the availability and quality of girls gets pretty low.

So you are familiar with the old HK airport. Wasn't it amazing to land there? And yes, it is really remarkable that they had such a low accident history.

The normal course is to clear customs at the first US gateway. I assume you will clear in Hawaii

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1210458]Gents: Am flying Hawaiian Airlines, LA to Manila, thru Honolulu. On the return trip, will I go thru customs / immigration in hawaii, or at LAX? There is only 2. 5 hours between my connecting flights in honolulu.[/QUOTE]Hawaii. Connecting shouldn't be a problem.

[QUOTE=Natty Bumpo; 1210543]Hi Fast Eddie,

So you are familiar with the old HK airport. Wasn't it amazing to land there? And yes, it is really remarkable that they had such a low accident history.[/QUOTE]Lived in HK for 10 years and flew in and out of Kai Tak 100 times plus.

Once or twice got to sit in the cockpit on landing, in the good old days when you could do such things without some muslim fanatic with semtex on his balls etc. Anyways, the runway was studded with some very cleverly placed light placements that worked day and night. The secret to landing in Kai Tak was for the pilot to ensure the lights were visible, ie not too high not too low, before the plan took a swing through the buildings of Kowloon. Once that was done he engaged auto pilot and most of the landings were done by in flight pc.

Was amazing to watch from a cockpit.

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1210458]Gents: Am flying Hawaiian Airlines, LA to Manila, thru Honolulu. On the return trip, will I go thru customs / immigration in hawaii, or at LAX? There is only 2. 5 hours between my connecting flights in honolulu.[/QUOTE]To West Coast

I was coming back from Tokoyo back to SFO thur Honolulu few yr ago being the first US point you need to clear custom, there are about 30 people clearing custom about half of us got our luggage search I am one of them it must of taking more than one hr 30 min very slow and we need to recheck in our luggage, the flight was waiting for us when we got to the gate about 30 min late taking off, I didn't have my luggage check the last 8 time coming back to SFO from China.

Fast Eddie 48

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1207650]So if you go reading the threads of eastern european countries, and ukraine, you will find guys boasting about rather high prices. $150-$250USD (and up) for ST. The gals are pretty, I'm sure. But that's more than girls are going for in my neck of the woods in the States. I think you can beat the pinay in many respects, but how many places can you find young honies to spend the night for $50? For as much as its easy to gripe about the corrupt. 3rd-world place that is pinas, viva la pinay![/QUOTE]I am guessing that you have not traveled to the Ukraine. I just returned from Kiev where I was sleeping with supermodels every night. The girls in the PI don't hold candle to the girls in Ukraine. In fact, the girls in "your neck of the woods" don't. I am from San Diego where the women are gorgeous and they hardly compare to ladies in Kiev.

Kiev is great because you can hook up with non pros so easily, and the purchasing power of the dollar is still very strong in Ukraine. Many people speak English and if you are white you blend in with everyone else, significantly reducing the chances you will be targeted for street crime.

As for the pricing of girls it all varies. You can get a girl for $50 at an hour rate (she will be way hotter than any Pinay for sure) or a supermodel for $100 / hour (minimum 3 hours) it all depends on what you're looking for. Personally, I like to mix it up. Pros, semi-pros and Non-pro students. Add a couple high dollar supermodel girls and you will have yourself a good trip.

It sounds great, but the prices are rather high. In the end your tool is in the receptacle and the fireworks occur. I have to admit, it's been a long time since I've had a hot-looking big titty blonde. But if I spend the rest of my wretched life fkg skinny Asians, I will be quite satisfied. X.

[QUOTE=Robreefer; 1211759]I am guessing that you have not traveled to the Ukraine. I just returned from Kiev where I was sleeping with supermodels every night. The girls in the PI don't hold candle to the girls in Ukraine. In fact, the girls in "your neck of the woods" don't. I am from San Diego where the women are gorgeous and they hardly compare to ladies in Kiev.

Kiev is great because you can hook up with non pros so easily, and the purchasing power of the dollar is still very strong in Ukraine. Many people speak English and if you are white you blend in with everyone else, significantly reducing the chances you will be targeted for street crime.

As for the pricing of girls it all varies. You can get a girl for $50 at an hour rate (she will be way hotter than any Pinay for sure) or a supermodel for $100 / hour (minimum 3 hours) it all depends on what you're looking for. Personally, I like to mix it up. Pros, semi-pros and Non-pro students. Add a couple high dollar supermodel girls and you will have yourself a good trip.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Robreefer;1211759]I am guessing that you have not traveled to the Ukraine.[/QUOTE]Correct. I have friends married to Ukrainians, but I have never been.

[QUOTE=Robreefer;1211759]I just returned from Kiev where I was sleeping with supermodels every night. The girls in the PI don't hold candle to the girls in Ukraine. In fact, the girls in "your neck of the woods" don't.[/QUOTE]Doubtful. See below.

[QUOTE=Robreefer;1211759]I am from San Diego where the women are gorgeous and they hardly compare to ladies in Kiev.[/QUOTE]We are from a similar "neck of the woods" (see my handle). I doubt the women in Ukraine are necessarily prettier than here (large Russian community) and beautiful women. There are college girls here who need a boost on occasion, just like anywhere. I will PM you.

[QUOTE=Robreefer;1211759]Kiev is great because you can hook up with non pros so easily, and the purchasing power of the dollar is still very strong in Ukraine. Many people speak English and if you are white you blend in with everyone else, significantly reducing the chances you will be targeted for street crime.[/QUOTE]Good point."Standing out" in asia is at times a good thing, and at times a bad thing. White buddy of mine married a Ukrainian girl. While there dating her, she joked that he 'looked' like mafioso. Sure enough, he got stopped on the street by police (Dniprovosk). Once his identity was established with his passport copy he was let go right there. He had his girl ask why he was stopped on the street, and the police said the exact same thing: "You look mafia." (translated thru his fiancee). He had previously experienced the same thing in St. Petersburg Russia once. Interesting how physical appearance can mix with culture, regardless of who and where you are.

[QUOTE=Robreefer;1211759]As for the pricing of girls it all varies. You can get a girl for $50 at an hour rate or a supermodel for $100 / hour (minimum 3 hours) it all depends on what you're looking for. Personally, I like to mix it up. Pros, semi-pros and Non-pro students. Add a couple high dollar supermodel girls and you will have yourself a good trip.[/QUOTE]How are airline prices from the US westcoast? BTW, $50-$75 gets a girl all night in SE Asia.

[QUOTE=Robreefer;1211759](she will be way hotter than any Pinay for sure)[/QUOTE]Not sure how you come up with that. Slavics and asians, apples and oranges. Neither can be "way hotter".

You're right, the hotness of a girl is completely subjective. However you must trust my judgement on the comparison to SoCAL girls. Don't get me wrong, they're great. I live in Pacific Beach in San Diego, a town that is nothing but 18-28 year old girls and they're all hot. But in Ukraine there are many more women, actually the highest average male / female ratio in the world (100 women to 84 men)

[QUOTE=Robreefer;1211759]I am guessing that you have not traveled to the Ukraine. I just returned from Kiev where I was sleeping with supermodels every night.[/QUOTE]At those sort of prices, I wouldn't have done much sleeping! The latest mongering 'fashion' in UK is for Hungarian girls and I tried a couple while I was home recently. Beautiful, bouncing happy peasant girls with big tits and determined to satisfy, they were much better than Polish or Ukranian girls who I found a bit surly or sulky.

[QUOTE=Robreefer;1211894]You're right, the hotness of a girl is completely subjective. However you must trust my judgement on the comparison to SoCAL girls. Don't get me wrong, they're great. I live in Pacific Beach in San Diego, a town that is nothing but 18-28 year old girls and they're all hot. But in Ukraine there are many more women, actually the highest average male / female ratio in the world (100 women to 84 men)[/QUOTE]So there are no 30, 40, 50, 60 or 70 year olds there? Must be paradise.

I have a DR perscrition for viagra Can I bring them into the Phils?

Well crap, you can't send load with Chikka any more. Might as well not even use Chikka now, as the girl needs some load to reply, and they NEVER have load!

Sending a little load has been my "I'm serious" move in the past. Hmm

Anyone have any alternatives for sending some load? Or a way for a girl to send outbound txt from a phone free?

Well this thing called "Morbie" shows up first in Google for "send load to the philippines".

[quote]No need to choose Globe, Smart or Sun! Morbie automatically determines which network the mobile number is subscribed to.[/quote]
100 credits for $5

[QUOTE=Jambo; 1214052]Well crap, you can't send load with Chikka any more. Might as well not even use Chikka now, as the girl needs some load to reply, and they NEVER have load!

Sending a little load has been my "I'm serious" move in the past. Hmm

Anyone have any alternatives for sending some load? Or a way for a girl to send outbound txt from a phone free?

Well this thing called "Morbie" shows up first in Google for "send load to the Philippines".

100 credits for $5[/QUOTE][url]Www[/url] Dot aryty dot com, is an online service for loading pilipine sims. P115 will cost you about US $2. 70 (charged to your CC). I sent a p300 recently for $7. 50. A p1000 will cost you $25 (about the fair exchange rate?). Its an easier way to send a gal money than WU or MoneyGram, as there is very little transaction fee. She can sell her load or any part of it for cash.

[QUOTE=Jambo; 1214052]Well crap, you can't send load with Chikka any more. Might as well not even use Chikka now, as the girl needs some load to reply, and they NEVER have load! Sending a little load has been my "I'm serious" move in the past. Hmm

Anyone have any alternatives for sending some load?[/QUOTE][url]Https://www.etopuponline.com/beta/start[/url]

Knock yourself out.

Ah thanks guys, I will check them both out. I am Finally getting back to the PI this Jan. This is my NO Shit Last winter in the US.

I am frustrated because I can't contact 2 honeys I like. One has TWIN sisters. Another has big ol' tits with a fairly trim waist. She hasn't been online in months. I suspect she is up in the "province" with her folks. Just the kind of girl I want. Poor and eager to please!

[QUOTE=Westcoast1; 1214067][url]Www[/url]

Dot aryty dot com, is an online service for loading pilipine sims. P115 will cost you about US $2. 70 (charged to your CC). I sent a p300 recently for $7. 50. A p1000 will cost you $25 (about the fair exchange rate?). Its an easier way to send a gal money than WU or MoneyGram, as there is very little transaction fee. She can sell her load or any part of it for cash.[/QUOTE]I use that here too. Maybe I should setup a money sending biz here in Cebu we can also send you photos of the sick buffalo

[QUOTE=W20415;1214012]I have a DR perscrition for viagra Can I bring them into the Phils?[/QUOTE]Except some major pharmacy chain you do not need any prescription for Viagra. Even if they refuse they will tell you where you can go to buy without one.

Another option is you can buy knock offs or generic versions. They are freely available. They work as well but adviced to buy 100 m. Gm tablets as strenghth in each tablet may not be what it says on the label.

Regular viagra is very expensive.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1214107]I use that here too. Maybe I should setup a money sending biz here in Cebu we can also send you photos of the sick buffalo[/QUOTE]I think you should try to start a business transfer business. Almost everybody including me is sending some money every month to the favourite keeper.

No money-no honey as they say.

Dollarwise it is cheap to keep a girl happy. Cheaper than P4P and paying for drinks at the bar as well. Besides you do not know what you get when P4P.

Money is the cause of sorrow and happiness whichever way you look at it.

[QUOTE=Sammon; 1214113]Except some major pharmacy chain you do not need any prescription for Viagra. Even if they refuse they will tell you where you can go to buy without one.

Another option is you can buy knock offs or generic versions. They are freely available. They work as well but adviced to buy 100 m. Gm tablets as strenghth in each tablet may not be what it says on the label.

Regular viagra is very expensive.[/QUOTE]May I suggest using Chinese herbal medicine such as my favorite 'IMPEOUS MAN". I have used this for 4 years. It is natural and works like Cialis. It is Cheaper P600 for 10 pills and no side effects. I have thousands of friends and mongers who are walking around with Boners right now after using this product. I really suggest trying this as Viagra is about p800 for 1 pill with a prescription. I have tried the knock offs before although it was brought fro me. It did not work at all.

I do not own or have any stock in the product as you can find it in many of the Kiosk in Cebu and I know where to locate in Manila.

PM me for more information.

[QUOTE=W20415;1214012]I have a DR perscrition for viagra Can I bring them into the Phils?[/QUOTE]I think you are asking can you bring the actual pills with you along with the prescription to verify you are allowed to have them. If that is correct the legal answer or technical answer is yes. I think as long as you have a prescription and you are not bringing more than the prescription allows. Now we are in a 3rd world country so sometimes people can change the rules to benefit themselves.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1214107]I use that here too. Maybe I should setup a money sending biz here in Cebu we can also send you photos of the sick buffalo[/QUOTE]Hey Franzy can I be a partner because I see how it works many times. LOL

[QUOTE=Jambo; 1214052]Well crap, you can't send load with Chikka any more. Might as well not even use Chikka now, as the girl needs some load to reply, and they NEVER have load!

Sending a little load has been my "I'm serious" move in the past. Hmm

Anyone have any alternatives for sending some load? Or a way for a girl to send outbound txt from a phone free?

Well this thing called "Morbie" shows up first in Google for "send load to the Philippines".

100 credits for $5[/QUOTE]I use this guy on ebay, for the last 2/3 yrs.

Just a quick question. Has anyone ever found a working girl in the Philippines that can take a good face fucking?

[QUOTE=Jambo; 1214052]Well crap, you can't send load with Chikka any more. Might as well not even use Chikka now, as the girl needs some load to reply, and they NEVER have load!

Sending a little load has been my "I'm serious" move in the past. Hmm

Anyone have any alternatives for sending some load? Or a way for a girl to send outbound txt from a phone free?

Well this thing called "Morbie" shows up first in Google for "send load to the Philippines".

100 credits for $5[/QUOTE]Damn I used them for the last five years. I even send myself load when I don't want to hunt for a Smart store

[QUOTE=Andre007;1214524]Hey Franzy can I be a partner because I see how it works many times. LOL[/QUOTE]I am serious. What the cheapest fee the charge to send money $9, we could pay a guy php6000 give him a bike and digicam, tell the sponsor if we prove the girl a scam we keep the payment, a few photos of his girl with another guy or doing it with us. We would be rich no time. I think I could expose all the pina girls asking their absent bf for cash what they get up to when they are not here.

I live here and my gf's never worked in the bars and i do not trust them..

[QUOTE=Rick Rock;1214635]Just a quick question. Has anyone ever found a working girl in the Philippines that can take a good face fucking?[/QUOTE]Yes, the gag queen in Cebu. PM me for details if you are heading there.

B.

[QUOTE=Paulr1950;1214533]I use this guy on ebay, for the last 2/3 yrs.[/QUOTE]Another reliable site is pa-load dot com

Works all the time. And not so much of a premium

[QUOTE=Andre007; 1214521]May I suggest using Chinese herbal medicine such as my favorite 'IMPEOUS MAN". I have used this for 4 years. It is natural and works like Cialis. It is Cheaper P600 for 10 pills and no side effects. I have thousands of friends and mongers who are walking around with Boners right now after using this product. I really suggest trying this as Viagra is about p800 for 1 pill with a prescription. I have tried the knock offs before although it was brought fro me. It did not work at all.

I do not own or have any stock in the product as you can find it in many of the Kiosk in Cebu and I know where to locate in Manila.

PM me for more information.[/QUOTE]Do not use any Chinese herbal enhancement medicine. They are untested and may do more harm than good. Especially if you take daily to keep your boner.

Chinese medicine contain hidden dangers caused by ingredients that are not safe.

Viagra, cialis etc has been tested extensively and safe to take one a day long term.

[QUOTE=Sammon; 1214803]Do not use any Chinese herbal enhancement medicine. They are untested and may do more harm than good. Especially if you take daily to keep your boner.

Chinese medicine contain hidden dangers caused by ingredients that are not safe.[/QUOTE]You might end up with counterfeit Viagra, Cialis, etc. There is always some risk although I will grant that there is less with a sealed name brand drug from a big pharmacy.

I have used the Chinese substitutes and name brands bought off the street with no ill effects. I consider the risk to be low.

Does anybody have any pointers how to obtain a Philippines drivers license WITHOUT the requisite valid driver's license from your home country? My license expired some time back, so that is all I am missing from the required document set. I suppose there are fixers who can do anything. I just want to get one quick and easy. Any advice is much appreciated. AsianRain

[QUOTE=Asian Rain;1216375]Does anybody have any pointers how to obtain a Philippines drivers license WITHOUT the requisite valid driver's license from your home country? My license expired some time back, so that is all I am missing from the required document set. I suppose there are fixers who can do anything. I just want to get one quick and easy. Any advice is much appreciated. AsianRain[/QUOTE]If you have an expired Philippines licence then don't worry. Just go to LTO and you pay a fine. I knew someone who's licence was over 2 years expired and was easy to get new one. If oyu mean your overseas licence expired already. Different problem. But still go to LTO with expired one. Tell them new one is in post etc.

Or take the test? That should be an adventure.

Thanks FF. Much appreciated. It is my overseas license that ha expired long ago. Just going down to the LTO with my expired license with a plausible excuse sounds the best strategy. Worst case I get hit with a "local penalty". Will see how it goes and report accordingly. Thanks, AsianRain.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan; 1216376]If you have an expired Philippines licence then don't worry. Just go to LTO and you pay a fine. I knew someone who's licence was over 2 years expired and was easy to get new one. If oyu mean your overseas licence expired already. Different problem. But still go to LTO with expired one. Tell them new one is in post etc.

Or take the test? That should be an adventure.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Asian Rain;1216375]Does anybody have any pointers how to obtain a Philippines drivers license WITHOUT the requisite valid driver's license from your home country? My license expired some time back, so that is all I am missing from the required document set. I suppose there are fixers who can do anything. I just want to get one quick and easy. Any advice is much appreciated. AsianRain[/QUOTE]So you DON'T have a PH license yet? And you want to get one with an expired foreign license. THAT'S that gist of your post.

Sorry, boss. Pointers? Fixers can't help. A DL from your home country will, or, as suggested previously, you can apply for a PH license and take the test. Easiest route IF you have PH residence. If not, they want to see your home country DL. Maybe, maybe, maybe you'll get lucky and they won't notice. Otherwise, unless you manage to "sweet talk" someone down at LTO, renew your DL back home. One out of the box option is an int'l DL. P. S. The test is just as easy as you might imagine.

Every now and again in chat we all come across some spelling "mistakes " that seem to have become the norm.

1."Honey can you get me a loptop". No where else in the world is this a word, but obviously one girl once said to another girl "ask him for a loptop" and this is now the word of choice.

2."Von voyage honey" Once upon a time a girl heard another saying bon voyage to her guy, and mispelt it, since then Von has replaced Bon for all my honeys.

3."can you get me some ferpume". This only really applies to girls north of manila who are renowned for mixing up "p" and "f" but it sure jolts the system when they mispell their mispronunciations.

No doubt readers have their own favourite too.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1216960]2."Von voyage honey" Once upon a time a girl heard another saying bon voyage to her guy, and mispelt it, since then Von has replaced Bon for all my honeys.[/QUOTE]No kidding. In Singapore, in a nearby Island, there is a resort called Celestial Resort, and no prize for guessing where the majority of the staff are from. When they have plastered "VON APETITE" in the menu card.

When I said it should be BON APETIT. I was told by the staff that in "AMERICAN ENGLISH" that's correct.

[QUOTE=Shark San; 1216812]So you DON'T have a PH license yet? And you want to get one with an expired foreign license. THAT'S that gist of your post.

Sorry, boss. Pointers? Fixers can't help. A DL from your home country will, or, as suggested previously, you can apply for a PH license and take the test. Easiest route IF you have PH residence. If not, they want to see your home country DL. Maybe, maybe, maybe you'll get lucky and they won't notice. Otherwise, unless you manage to "sweet talk" someone down at LTO, renew your DL back home. One out of the box option is an int'l DL. P. S. The test is just as easy as you might imagine.[/QUOTE]To Shark,

I got my International DL from CSAA auto club in the US just paid 20 USD for one yr, but in PI if you get stop by the police show them a 1000 peso bill that is just as good as a PI driver lic it work in China also and International DL is no good there.

Fast Eddie 48

Regular visitors to the shores of Manila will know that girls have a love / hate realtionship with bikinis. The kind of girls that we like are happy as larry to receive a bikini and can't wait to get it on and model it etc. They, like us, know it won't be on for long.

There are other girls though, who become all proud and state " I never wear bikini, I'm conservative. I'm notl ike other girls etc".

Was in a chat with one such girl today. Stated outright didn't want and wouldn't wear bikini. I asked her instead if she would like bra and panties. She said yes and gave me her size. We agreed (she agreed and I readily led her on) that she would wear it and model it for me. No hint of conservativeness, just a big happy YES.

And the difference between modelling a bikini and modelling in bra and panties is what. A confusing day.

Well noted SS. I have got the answer I needed from the LTO site ([url]http://www.lto.gov.ph/Requirements/dls_faq.aspx[/url]). Despite my expired foreign license, I can convert to Philippines license. Just need to take the written and practical exams plus all the other normal requirements. Tedious but legal. Thanks, AR.

[QUOTE=Shark San; 1216812]So you DON'T have a PH license yet? And you want to get one with an expired foreign license. THAT'S that gist of your post.

Sorry, boss. Pointers? Fixers can't help. A DL from your home country will, or, as suggested previously, you can apply for a PH license and take the test. Easiest route IF you have PH residence. If not, they want to see your home country DL. Maybe, maybe, maybe you'll get lucky and they won't notice. Otherwise, unless you manage to "sweet talk" someone down at LTO, renew your DL back home. One out of the box option is an int'l DL. P. S. The test is just as easy as you might imagine.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FreebieFan; 1217087]Regular visitors to the shores of Manila will know that girls have a love / hate realtionship with bikinis. The kind of girls that we like are happy as larry to receive a bikini and can't wait to get it on and model it etc. They, like us, know it won't be on for long.

There are other girls though, who become all proud and state " I never wear bikini, I'm conservative. I'm notl ike other girls etc".

Was in a chat with one such girl today. Stated outright didn't want and wouldn't wear bikini. I asked her instead if she would like bra and panties. She said yes and gave me her size. We agreed (she agreed and I readily led her on) that she would wear it and model it for me. No hint of conservativeness, just a big happy YES.

And the difference between modelling a bikini and modelling in bra and panties is what. A confusing day.[/QUOTE]Anytime we analyze why people in other cultures act so illogically, we are walking through mine fields. Every society does things just because that's the.

Way they do it. In the Philippines, attitudes are slowly changing. It's partly a 'province vs city' thing. Certainly a generational thing. Take a conservative girl.

To a resort where bikinis are commonplace and her inhibitions disappear. However, back at the beach barangay, any kind of bathing suit will be considered.

'**** wear'. Older women still only swim in their regular clothing with voluminous dresses swirling in the surf.

I once took a girl from a smaller city to an upscale Filipino resort. She reluctantly agreed to wear the bikini I had provided, but only ON TOP of her.

Bra and panties!

[QUOTE=FreebieFan; 1217087]Regular visitors to the shores of Manila will know that girls have a love / hate realtionship with bikinis. The kind of girls that we like are happy as larry to receive a bikini and can't wait to get it on and model it etc. They, like us, know it won't be on for long.

There are other girls though, who become all proud and state " I never wear bikini, I'm conservative. I'm notl ike other girls etc".

Was in a chat with one such girl today. Stated outright didn't want and wouldn't wear bikini. I asked her instead if she would like bra and panties. She said yes and gave me her size. We agreed (she agreed and I readily led her on) that she would wear it and model it for me. No hint of conservativeness, just a big happy YES.

And the difference between modelling a bikini and modelling in bra and panties is what. A confusing day.[/QUOTE]She'll wear the bra and / or panties alot more than she will wear a bikini.

A recent favorite. A college student is coming to visit me for the first time. I ask her the name of the ferry company, so I can meet it. I get the texted answer "Passcrap". I say, I don't think so. Maybe that's the name of the CR. Well it turns out she did not look for the name; she asked someone. The name is Fastcraft. F gets turned into P, and T as a second consonant is dropped. Now it's a joke between us, and I hope a lesson for her in getting reliable information.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan; 1216960]Every now and again in chat we all come across some spelling "mistakes " that seem to have become the norm.

1."Honey can you get me a loptop". No where else in the world is this a word, but obviously one girl once said to another girl "ask him for a loptop" and this is now the word of choice.

2."Von voyage honey" Once upon a time a girl heard another saying bon voyage to her guy, and mispelt it, since then Von has replaced Bon for all my honeys.

3."can you get me some ferpume". This only really applies to girls north of manila who are renowned for mixing up "p" and "f" but it sure jolts the system when they mispell their mispronunciations.

No doubt readers have their own favourite too.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cbea20;1217660]A recent favorite. . .[/QUOTE]Ah, one more.

I was told to help translate the request of a filipina, in a fruit staff in Singapore.

She was looking for a non-existent fruit. AP-OHHHHHHHHH-LE the pronunciation was so stiff, I took a while before figuring out that she wanted an APPLE

Earlier this month I made my second trip to the Philippines, following a visit in 2009. Over the course of 9 days I spent time in Manila (Ermita, Quezon City, Paranaque City) , Puerto Galera-Sabang on Mindoro, and Angeles City, getting together with 15 girls. Reports are posted in the appropriate forums.

I've returned with a one major life conclusion: Filipinas are my absolute favorite women in the world. In the case of most of the girls I encountered, though earning a living they didn't treat the interactions or the sex as a job. I received energetic or passionate involvement from just about all the girls I met, and the full girlfriend treatment from a couple of them. I suspect it's going to be a lifelong pursuit trying to re-live the experiences of this trip. Wish me luck!

[QUOTE=Ibn Buttita;1218912]I suspect it's going to be a lifelong pursuit trying to re-live the experiences of this trip. Wish me luck![/QUOTE]Give up trying before you start. You can never match your cherry trip! Thanks for the great reports. You sure got about. Did you not bring a camera BTW?

[blue]Gentlemen,

The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange of information between Men on the subject of finding Women for Sex.

Let's get back to the subject.

Thank You,

Jackson[/blue]

[QUOTE=Cuba Tourist; 1220213]Giving a little more because it is no big deal leads to the situation we see today in numerous countries where prices and doubled and doubled again. Please keep to the established prices and resist the temptation to be soft in the negotiations.

Bogota 2004 $8 US for an hour Now?

Pattaya 2004! 2 US for an hour now?

And so forth.[/QUOTE]From Cuba Tourist in the Caribbean / Curacao thread. Don't know if his prices were correct in those places at that time (2004) , but it should give all of us (even me) a pause to over-spend for the sake of expediency. A year ago I wrote a long article in the Jakarta thread about what guys were paying there. I made the point that while I was paying 300-350IDR there for ST, other guys I chatted with were paying 2x and 3x that much. Some paid it out of ignorance, and others just for expediency. Even I paid 400 at times out of expediency in a freelance place, just to cut the dickering time (girls were fairly happy to hear that offer). Its often just easier to give her a touch more than she's willing to work for (or several times that much) for the sake of getting a happy (on her part) quickie, and skip the negotiations. I think the guys who overpay from ignorance are just used to thinking in terms of their own experiences in their culture ("Hey I pay $400 for it at home. What's wrong with giving her $100 here?"). Its that kind of ignorance, or expediency, that slowly drives prices up.

On my last trip to Cebu, I started giving often times p700 or 1000, when I could have paid 500 or 600. Everyone was happy, including me. It's easy. But, as Cuba Tourist points out, a few years from now we will all be paying 1500, and I will have been partly to blame.

Any recommendations for a reputable private investigator that I can use to check up on a girl and make sure she's honest, who she says she is, etc?

Yes, I can use Google. I'm looking for an agency with a good track record and reputation.

[QUOTE=Unirii; 1220376]Any recommendations for a reputable private investigator that I can use to check up on a girl and make sure she's honest, who she says she is, etc?

Yes, I can use Google. I'm looking for an agency with a good track record and reputation.[/QUOTE]Well, if you need to 'investigate' her, then you shouldn't be bothering with her, says me LOL.

Anyway, sent you a PM.

This notice was posted on the door of an internet cafe in general santos. I just had to walk in and ask the attendant where I might find the loose woman. As usual when a filipina does not understand what to answer back she just giggled. I would like to say I did locate one, but sad to say just normal filipinas looking for their ticket out.

[QUOTE=Unirii;1220376]Any recommendations for a reputable private investigator that I can use to check up on a girl and make sure she's honest, who she says she is, etc?[/QUOTE]She isn't and she's not. That will be 5, 000 pesos, please.

[QUOTE=Dickhead;1220509]She isn't and she's not. That will be 5, 000 pesos, please.[/QUOTE]LOL. Nice! You can learn a lot from a dickhead.

[QUOTE=Nightrider1;1220505]This notice was posted on the door of an internet cafe in general santos. I just had to walk in and ask the attendant where I might find the loose woman. As usual when a filipina does not understand what to answer back she just giggled. I would like to say I did locate one, but sad to say just normal filipinas looking for their ticket out.[/QUOTE]Nightrider, there was no shortage of women on the loose when I was last in Gensan. After all, that sign is advertising that they are still available. LOL

[QUOTE=Dickhead;1220509]She isn't and she's not. That will be 5, 000 pesos, please.[/QUOTE]What a dickhead thing to say. Hilarious.

[QUOTE=Unirii; 1220376]Any recommendations for a reputable private investigator that I can use to check up on a girl and make sure she's honest, who she says she is, etc?

Yes, I can use Google. I'm looking for an agency with a good track record and reputation.[/QUOTE]Trust but verify. The Pinays are the best liars I ever met.

Also they are very naive (or at least pretend to be).

American women would never accept the bullshit stories that we tell
them when we are spending time with another Pinay.

[QUOTE=Unirii; 1220376]Any recommendations for a reputable private investigator that I can use to check up on a girl and make sure she's honest, who she says she is, etc?

Yes, I can use Google. I'm looking for an agency with a good track record and reputation.[/QUOTE]My advice is do not try to use private investigator or anybody to find out what you want to find out. These women need as much privacy as you and I do.

Whatever they do is to survive in their perticular life situation. If you are interested in long time relationship which includes support and marriage you need to just trust the girl.

Once you decide you want to marry the girl stay in Phi long time or marry and get her into your country. Digging about past life has not done any good for anybody.

Just showing proof to the girl that she is lying is not galant. Meddle in her life only if you are going to marry her. Otherwise leave her alone.

[QUOTE=Sammon; 1220769]My advice is do not try to use private investigator or anybody to find out what you want to find out. These women need as much privacy as you and I do.

Whatever they do is to survive in their perticular life situation. If you are interested in long time relationship which includes support and marriage you need to just trust the girl.

Once you decide you want to marry the girl stay in Phi long time or marry and get her into your country. Digging about past life has not done any good for anybody.

Just showing proof to the girl that she is lying is not galant. Meddle in her life only if you are going to marry her. Otherwise leave her alone.[/QUOTE]What do you really need to know? That she is who she says she is? Then get a photocopy of her I'd and bring it to someone outside of her territory to have it checked. Would help if you could have it checked by a friend of a friend who is a cop. It is perfectly normal if you are going to hire a maid. You can get a photocopy of her I'd on the basis that you are going to get her a job, a visa for your home country or even an I'd for your building, if you are living in a condo.

But none of this really helps you. Finding out that she is who she says does not protect you from the girl developing a a gambling habit or otherwise bringing you grief. Better find one who is honest, has her own job or profession, is a good character, has no addictions etc. Find one who is interested in education or getting a skill and spend money on that rather than providing for the family (although you will have to do at least something for the family at some stage). Don't just leave her to sit at home. Women staying at home in rural Philippiines works in a way but in the western country she will just get lonely and the devil makes work for idle hands.

It is crazy difficult getting unmarried in PHILIPPINES, you might want to marry in another country that actually has a divorce law. Write up a legal prenup with a lawyer to limit the drain on your resources if it all goes to the bad.

Last, if you continue to monger, by all means go for it but keep it a secret. Never monger in her locality as she will lose face.

dec 06, 2011 7:03am.

a search is under way for an australian man abducted from his home in the southern philippines.

several armed men abducted warren rodwell. 53, from his home in the seaside town of ipil on mindanao island, fleeing in speed boats, regional military spokesman lieutenant colonel randolph cabangbang said.

military and police forces are trying to rescue him, he said.

no one has claimed responsibility for the abduction.

but kidnappings for ransom, often targeting foreigners, occur frequently in parts of the southern philippines, where a muslim separatist rebellion has been going on for more than 40 years.

mr cabangbang said few other details about mr rodwell were immediately available, and a media officer at the australian embassy was unable to provide any information.

a website, which could not be immediately verified, advertised a shop run by warren rodwell and his filipina wife in ipil. it linked to other sites posting photos and writings from mr rodwell travelling around the world.

the al-qaeda-linked abu sayyaf is the most infamous of many muslim militant groups known to carry out such kidnappings in the south.

the abu sayyaf, which is believed to have only a few hundred armed followers, was blamed for the abduction of a filipina woman also in ipil in september.

the military rescued her two weeks later on the abu sayyaf's stronghold of basilan island, about three to five hours away by speed boat, during a gunfight in which one soldier died.

mr cabangbang said the military was not yet able to determine if the abu sayyaf was also behind yesterday's kidnapping.

"we are looking into the possibility that it may be the same group, but it's too early to say," he said.

the abu sayyaf was founded in 1990 with al-qaeda funding and has been blamed for the philippines' worst terrorist attacks, including a ferry bombing that killed more than 100 people in 2004, as well as the beheadings of foreigners.

a rotating force of about 600 us soldiers has been stationed in the southern philippines for a decade to train the philippine military how to fight the abu sayyaf, although the group has survived partly due to strong local support.

however other armed groups, including criminal gangs and rogue elements of the main muslim separatist group, the moro islamic liberation front, are also known to be involved in the kidnapping for ransom industry.

this year alone two americans, a malaysian, an indian and three south koreans, along with many filipinos, have been kidnapped in various parts of the southern philippines.

some of the kidnapped victims have been released but others, including an american teenager, remain in captivity.

This is, in general, a fairly lawless country in which rebel groups, private armies, armed gangs, roving bandits and heavily-armed clans act with impunity and are rarely caught and prosecuted. It's been this way for a long time, and it's going to stay this way for a long time. It's should thus not be surprising that other countries in the region grow, while this country remains a stagnant backwater, attracting little in the way of foreign direct investment, tourists or interest from the outside world. I read somewhere that the only reason the Philippines is classified as a third world country is that no one has yet invented a fourth world category. Seems appropriate.

GE

[quote=goodenough;1224013]this is, in general, a fairly lawless country in which rebel groups, private armies, armed gangs, roving bandits and heavily-armed clans act with impunity and are rarely caught and prosecuted.[/quote]to be fair, it isn't lawless in most of the philippines and certainly not in its largest cities. it's only lawless in the southern and western part of mindanao where only tourists who've lost their will to live should visit. the rest of the country is ok to tour as long as you maintain a bit of vigilance.

there are other nearby countries poorer and more deserving of fourth world status such as india, cambodia, laos, myanmar and bangladesh.

however, what's tragic about the economic history of the philippines is that the country was once amongst the richest in asia -- with manila named the "pearl of the orient". the spaniards, japanese and americans all desperately sought claims in the philippines for its abundance in natural resources and central trade routes throughout asia.

the dumbest thing the filipinos have ever done was to declare independence from the us in 1946, an event that also marks the beginning of the philippine economic decline. over the next half-century, the filipinos have demonstrated an utter inability to govern themselves. while other asian capitals were being covered with modern skyscrapers and hi-tech subways, manila descended slowly into chaos and decay.

of course, philippine poverty gives budget mongers an unique opportunity to monger. so perhaps one shouldn't be overly critical.

[quote=furryfriend;1224106]to be fair, it isn't lawless in most of the philippines and certainly not in its largest cities. it's only lawless in the southern and western part of mindanao where only tourists who've lost their will to live should visit. the rest of the country is ok to tour as long as you maintain a bit of vigilance.[/quote]no, not just the south, but, except a rare few places, i need to constantly watch my 6 o'clock or i will be scammed, cheated, ripped off, or plain simply. cleaned up, if not stabbed / shot in the process.

[quote=furryfriend;1224106]there are other nearby countries poorer and more deserving of fourth world status such as india, cambodia, laos, myanmar and bangladesh.[/quote]no, what is different here is, with the self-proclaimed 'peace loving' mentality, even murderers take years, if at all, to face the law, and most of the time, they are forgiven and the law forgets that a crime was committed, unless the suspect was a foreigners. on an average day, a couple of shootings, robberies and more are very common and nobody is bothered about it, with the lowly paid cops and all only keen to abuse the victim more. like many have found out. when you report about a kidnapping, it is the cops who end up adding to the ransom amount and milking the cash cow. which doesn't happen in those countries you mentioned, at least not so commonly.

and many a victim is more terrified of the cops than the criminal, and almost always, even if the culprit is identified, the cops give time for the culprit to surrender, a-la american style. promoting basic rights. etc. etc.

look at the their senate and see how many have no case against them. heck, the vp has so many corruption cases and he was voted as "the most trusted person". oh, did you ever wonder what marcos & family is doing? they are law makers. and even one of their senator was caught with drugs in hk and he pleaded mercy for being forced to take drugs by his gf's drama and the nation agrees that he should be given a chance.

oh, the navy man who led a mutiny? guess where he is? and ah. yes, the senator who disappeared when he had a murder case and conveniently appeared when the charges were dismissed, having hidden overses. and was welcome with open arms by the filipinos, having forgotten that he had committed a serious crime for leaving the country on a fake passport, and is not one of the proponents for bringing gma to justice.

and when another navy man left his gun off-duty, and it was used by kids to accidentally kill another kid during a play acting gone wrong, the navy man didn't even face court martial or any charges, heck, even the navy commander pardoned him accepting that it was a tragic accident. and everybody is happy about it. in my country, he would have been court martialled, regardless of any pardon and locked up in the brig for unsafe handling.

oh, when the former cop took hostages, did you know that 7 out of 10 police marksmen later revealed that they didn't shoot him as they felt the hijacker deserved a chance. and the hijacker went on to kill and more. and yes, the president refused to give a simple apology saying "the apology must come from the hijacker's family, not from the govt as we did nothing wrong" and all the public say "yes"

justice in philippines? no sir, i am not angry, but perpetually amused by their thinking and such, and no country comes closer to philippines. no country.

[quote=furryfriend;1224106]the dumbest thing the filipinos have ever done was to declare independence from the us in 1946, an event that also marks the beginning of the philippine economic decline. over the next half-century, the filipinos have demonstrated an utter inability to govern themselves. while other asian capitals were being covered with modern skyscrapers and hi-tech subways, manila descended slowly into chaos and decay.[/quote]not at all. if i believe a few educated filipinos, they squarely blame the americans for having bred oligarchical businesses, and keeping the natives in line, breeding tightly controlled businesses, and promoting their own business interests and also the family-businesses leading to their sorry state of the country. no, i am not anti-american, but then again, these friends of mine were fully behind the wikileak report that quoted the american ambassador for philippines calling cory as spineless and did nothing to change much from marcos' style governance, and pnoy as having won purely on sympathy votes, and nothing else.

oh, you know that estrada won a fair amount of votes, despite his guilt being proven and being pardoned.

oh, and none of the martial law murders and extra judicial killings are even bothered about, and the current justice secretary, proclaimed here talent and tenacity by quoting her efforts by investigating some of them during her tenure as the head of the human rights commission. nobody was convicted, never mind the fact that a lot of the accused are dead or dying or had openly smirked and even mocked the kith and kin and don't give a rat's ass about the dead. i could quote a lot, including the morong 43, which happened far away from south of philippines. and well, everybody has a short memory.

again, i am not mad, just amused.

[QUOTE=GoodEnough;1224013]The dumbest thing the Filipinos have ever done was to declare independence from the US in 1946, an event that also marks the beginning of the Philippine economic decline[/QUOTE]Philippines was doing well for the first 15 years of independence, in 1950-1960 this was one of the most prosperous places in south east asia. The Chinese were coveting the opportunity to go work in the Philippines as laborers for they could earn a lot more than back home. The Philippine middle class guys at the time, for sex tourism used to go to.. Japan. Ironic how things took a 180 degree turn around.

It rolled downhill around the time Marcos usurped power and to keep power he distributed land and property to his cronies, dispossessing foreign investors and productive filipinos. Then he borrowed unrepayable amounts of debt, devalued the national currency into toilet paper, and spread a culture of corruption and cronyism. The middle class was wiped out, the competent people left, those who stayed adopted a "me and my family first, fuck everyone else" attitude that persists to this day. Add an out of control population boom pushed by the catholic lunatics and we have the present.

I hope Warren finds a way to break free, and the kidnappers get what they deserve. Expecting the worst though.

L.

[QUOTE=Fast Buck Artist;1224129]It rolled downhill around the time Marcos usurped power .[/QUOTE]No doubt he plundered the country. But even after bring deposed, the country is still in rotten shape. There is more poverty today in the Philippines than there were a decade ago. The Filipinos can't blame it all on one madman forever.

The Catholic Church definitely has had a negative impact on society by promoting big families (whether or not the couple can afford it) and a "compassionate" culture which creates complacency and tolerance for failure. But pinoy culture is also to blame. The culture doesn't frown upon a lax work ethic and encourages people to lean on each other for money instead of promoting self sufficiency.

Notice Chinese-Filipinos are usually wealthier, more educated and more likely to be entrepreneurs than the natives, proving that you can indeed succeed in the country with the right work ethic.

Filipinos are usually fun to have around. But frankly, many are lazy and shady as fuck. My advice to newbies to the Philippines is, the less you talk to male Filipinos, the more pleasant your trip.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1224106]To be fair, it isn't lawless in most of the Philippines and certainly not in its largest cities. It's only lawless in the southern and western part of Mindanao where only tourists who've lost their will to live should visit. The rest of the country is OK to tour as long as you maintain a bit of vigilance.[/QUOTE]Actually, the lawlessness, or at least the lack of law enforcement, is pervasive. Mindanao, or parts of Mindanao, are merely the most egregious examples. The Philippines is routinely cited by international agencies for its lack of a functioning justice / judicial system, for the corruption of its judges, and for its lack of effective law enforcement. Yes, Myanmar and Cambodia may be more backward at the moment, but I wonder how long it will take for them to gain some positive momentum and to eventually bypass the Philippines, which once boasted the second highest standard of living in Asia after Japan. It only took Vietnam about 15 years after dumping Communism, and it took Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia even less time to leave this country far behind.

GE

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1224168]. But pinoy culture is also to blame. The culture doesn't frown upon a lax work ethic and encourages people to lean on each other for money instead of promoting self sufficiency.[/QUOTE]If you read Rizal's "Noli Me Tangere" you will find one of his characters railing against a villager who is expecting to live on hand-outs from the more wealthy people rather than working for a living. Rizal wrote that in the late 1880s. The culture of asking for "something for nothing" still persists.

Unfortunately the notion of relying on hand-outs prevails at government level too.

As soon as any infrastructure project is proposed, the next question is "can we get USA/Japan/Australia/ UK/Germany/Sweden etc etc funds to do it?"
There should be a huge tax base here to support government institutions if all collections were made expeditiously. The amount of aid that is delivered here is quite extraordinarily large when both loans and grants are taken into account.

[quote=furryfriend; 1224106]to be fair, it isn't lawless in most of the philippines and certainly not in its largest cities. it's only lawless in the southern and western part of mindanao where only tourists who've lost their will to live should visit. the rest of the country is ok to tour as long as you maintain a bit of vigilance.

there are other nearby countries poorer and more deserving of fourth world status such as india, cambodia, laos, myanmar and bangladesh.

however, what's tragic about the economic history of the philippines is that the country was once amongst the richest in asia. with manila named the "pearl of the orient". the spaniards, japanese and americans all desperately sought claims in the philippines for its abundance in natural resources and central trade routes throughout asia.

the dumbest thing the filipinos have ever done was to declare independence from the us in 1946, an event that also marks the beginning of the philippine economic decline. over the next half-century, the filipinos have demonstrated an utter inability to govern themselves. while other asian capitals were being covered with modern skyscrapers and hi-tech subways, manila descended slowly into chaos and decay.

of course, philippine poverty gives budget mongers an unique opportunity to monger. so perhaps one shouldn't be overly critical.[/quote]i think they should blame marcos who ruled with a iron hand and supressed all developments. although usa was behind him he did not seek help in development. most authoritarian governments likes to keep its people under wraps so that their rule is safe. the population explosion although it is good for us mongers does not help the country stretching available resources.

There has been talk in this thread, and others, about poverty in the Philippines. Many governments, including my own, mount aid projects which are ostensibly directed towards alleviation, or eradication, of poverty.

And all of the solutions proposed by posters in this forum, and elsewhere, are directed towards solving the symptoms of the problems. Not solving the actual problem.

The commonest example of this are the numerous poverty projects in Africa, where trillions of dollars have been donated, and spent, with little imporvemen t overall.

It is olny by solving the actual problems, that poverty can be eradicated.

There are three "Primary Drivers" of poveerty.

The first is widedspread, and endemic corruption. The issue here is not so much that people steal money. The driver of poverty is that decisions are made, not on the basis of which option is best for the country, so muc as which option puts the most money into the pockets of the decision makers. This means that vast amounts of money are wasted, or are spent on substandard infrastructure, or public amenities.

The second is unstable government. This is not about changing government. The problem is where decisions made by government are changed, without just compensation. This means that investors cannot depend on their investments being safe for the long term. So investors will not invest. Hence no jobs, no growth in the economy.

The third driver is an ineffective land titling system. In countries with an effective land titling system, the ownership of land is clear, and unchallengable. Hence land can be leveraged to increase wealth. If title is not clear, then banks will not accept land as collateral against loans, and hence the wealth inherent in land cannot be leveraged to create more wealth. This also applies where land is held under customary title, where there is no clear owner of land.

If any one of these three drivers exists in a country, or region, or comunity, then the result will be poverty. In the Philippines, all three exist.

Hence to eradicate poverty in the Philippines requires that all three are fixed. A very difficult, and maybe impossible solution.

G

I am constantly in awe of the erudition displayed by numerous members of this forum. The reports of the last several days have been uniformly insightful, cogent and thought provoking. What saddens me is that with all the experience and expertise of our P I / ISG 'brains' trust', none of us are able to see any light at the end of the tunnel. This headlong plunge over the last 50 years, from second richest Asian nation to near the bottom of the barrel, seems so entrenched, that Third World status is now in the process of being down-graded to 'Failed State'. Does anyone see any possible scenario for a turnaround?

[u][b]EDITOR's NOTE[/b][/u]: [blue]This report was published with unnecessary [b][u]HARD[/u] [u]RETURNS[/u][/b] at the end of every line of text, resulting in the text being incorrectly broken up into separate, incomplete sentences.

There is [u]NO[/u] [u]NEED[/u] for any report to be written with [b][u]HARD[/u] [u]RETURNS[/u][/b] at the end of every line of text.

If you are adding these hard returns at the end of every line by using the ENTER key, then please stop. Instead, simply allow the text to "wrap" automatically at the end of each line when typing. The ENTER key is only needed to separate the paragraphs.

However, if the unnecessary hard returns were the result of you having pasted the text into the forum from another source (such as a news story), then your option is to either edit out the unnecessary hard returns or don't paste the text.

Please do not post text with unnecessary hard returns in the Forum. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue]

There's a very good report, written I believe last year, by a Filipino economist whose last name is Habito. It was published by the ADB (and I think written on it's behalf) and addresses the structural causes of poverty in the country. All of the factors cited by Gangles are cited, as well as the fact that the economic system here does not encourage, or even permit, participation by a broad-based swath of society. Thus, the insufficient jobs created are accessible only to a narrow portion of the workforce, which is young, largely unskilled, and growing quickly due to a largely unchecked population growth rate. Another factor cited by Habito is the need for functioning institutions of government that are not dependent on personality cults. The fact is that here, bureaucratic systems are irrational, as is staffing and the capacity of many bureaucrats is extremely limited. Finally, the eradication of dynastic politics, and the concomitant formation of real political parties (not personality cults) are considered essential for true reform. Habito's most telling point (at least for me) is that none of these structural weaknesses can be alleviated through outside forces such as donor intervention, since true, permanent change is a function of sustained political will, which is largely absent here.

Getting to Gangle's excellent point about land titling, I know of one large donor agency that considered developing a pilot program to modify the system on a very small scale. The model to be used was based on the extensive work of De Soto. The conclusion reached, after studying the status quo, was that the system is such a complete and utter mess-and so politically charged, that implementation of an effective pilot program would have been impossible. The idea was quickly abandonned. Another problem precipitated by the murky titling "system" is that few people pay any property taxes, which is one reason that the local governments are so starved for revenues.

Quester 55 raises the reasonable question of whether there's any hope. My conclusions, after working here for 8 years are ambivalent. I have become convinced that meanginful change at the microcosmic level-of barangays, municipalities and even provinces is possible. I know because I've seen it. Whether such change is sustainable is another question and I'm not so certain of the answer. As to the macrocosm, the country as a whole, I don't believe that systemmic change is possible, as the oligarchic culture is so deeply engrained, and there's so little incentive for the few families that operate the country as a private feifdom to share the wealth.

GE

[QUOTE=Gangles;1224230]If any one of these three drivers exists in a country, or region, or comunity, then the result will be poverty. In the Philippines, all three exist.[/QUOTE]It's even more elementary than that.

The reason the Philippines is so hard to "fix" is because its problems are mostly the result of a cultural defect.

Other Asian societies have experienced rapid economic growth because they have cultures that are compatible with free market capitalism. Take China. Traditional Chinese culture values hard work, education, self-reliance and long-term planning. All of which are essential ingredients for a well functioning capitalistic society. So once economic reforms were implemented there in the early 1980s, its economy predictably took off.

On the other hand, Philippine culture is simply not compatible with capitalism. Just as societies in India and the Middle East aren't either. Most Filipinos don't save money, have a 'live for the day' mentality and rely on others for money. You cannot build a modern capitalistic economy that way. It doesn't matter who's in charge. The only realistic way to promote modest development is to impose some form of colonial rule over the Philippines. The Filipinos cannot govern themselves.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend; 1224454]It's even more elementary than that.

On the other hand, Philippine culture is simply not compatible with capitalism. Most Filipinos don't save money, have a 'live for the day' mentality and rely on others for money.[/QUOTE]I have a sweet friend who works in Manila. Family in the South. Sweet friends sisters are all married, she's the only one who is not. She has a cow for a mother, who texts her every day telling her to send money, saying the family expects her as the unmarried daughter to provide for the mother (overweight) and father (hasnt worked for past 5 years ). Poor girl has two jobs so one would think, the mother would have a level of appreciation. Sadly no appreciation is extended at all.

Girl sent a little less home a few months back, as it was her birthday so she rewarded herself with a new dress and shoes (total cost P1000 ). Mother immediately whines about how her daughter isn't sending enough to feed them etc, pushing all the guilt buttons.

I suggested to the girl she divorce herself from her parents!

But the only happy ending to this story, is that in all the 14 dates we have had, she has resolutely refused to take one centavo from me. Says to do so would be easy but she would rather live this tough life of hers with pride and self respect.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend; 1224454]It's even more elementary than that.

The reason the Philippines is so hard to "fix" is because its problems are mostly the result of a cultural defect.

Other Asian societies have experienced rapid economic growth because they have cultures that are compatible with free market capitalism. Take China. Traditional Chinese culture values hard work, education, self-reliance and long-term planning. All of which are essential ingredients for a well functioning capitalistic society. So once economic reforms were implemented there in the early 1980s, its economy predictably took off.

On the other hand, Philippine culture is simply not compatible with capitalism. Just as societies in India and the Middle East aren't either.[/QUOTE]I've been trying to decide whether or not I agree with this, and I"m still not sure. Certainly Filipinos tend to do well, to work hard and to save when overseas, but of course they're immersed in a totally different culture while there. I do know some very successful, very entrepreneurial Filipinos, but then many of them are Chinese, and even those that aren't stand out because they are such anomalies. Therefore, I think that on balance, I agree. This is largely a culture of dependency run amok, which denigrates non-conformity and values uniformity and passivity for the most part. Many-though not all-with individual initiative and drive emigrate to countries where such qualities are valued highly, and where independence of thought is valued, not disdained as it is here.

Many countries-Vietnam is the most striking example I can think of, and Indonesia is another-eventually threw off the shackles of their colonial subjugation and created vibrant societies that are developing quickly. This place never did and perhaps never will.

GE

This kind of behaviour is characteristic of the hunter-gatherer culture. And it is common throughout the Philippines. And once a person is acculturated into any culture, it is extremely difficult to change.

From my perspective, this is one reason why it is so hard for the Phils to get going economically and politically.

The behaviour of the leading families is not unexpected when seen through the lens of the hunter-gatherer culture, because in that culture, everyone owns everything, but the head man owns it all. So the leading families would see it as their right to take what they want, because it is part of the culture.

This is also why it is OK for a familyto expect a foreigner to pay when he bcomes involved with a woman. Her family see him as a new family member, and hence is possessions become common family property.

G

[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1224869]I've been trying to decide whether or not I agree with this, and I"m still not sure. Certainly Filipinos tend to do well, to work hard and to save when overseas, but of course they're immersed in a totally different culture while there. I do know some very successful, very entrepreneurial Filipinos, but then many of them are Chinese, and even those that aren't stand out because they are such anomalies. Therefore, I think that on balance, I agree. This is largely a culture of dependency run amok, which denigrates non-conformity and values uniformity and passivity for the most part. Many-though not all-with individual initiative and drive emigrate to countries where such qualities are valued highly, and where independence of thought is valued, not disdained as it is here.

Many countries-Vietnam is the most striking example I can think of, and Indonesia is another-eventually threw off the shackles of their colonial subjugation and created vibrant societies that are developing quickly. This place never did and perhaps never will.

GE[/QUOTE]

Climates change, conditions change, and those not suitably adaptive to changing circumstance, follow a downward spiral to extinction. Given the multiple scourges of cultural dependency, corruption, rocketing over-population, incompetence, passivity, and a general lack of those capitalist 'qualities' that propel economic growth in most other Asian nations, is this country reaching an evolutionary dead end? Quite possibly so. Perhaps the situation, rather than remaining static, is going to get a lot worse.

I think it is due to corruption they think they can take that they are owed something from those that have to give to the others. The saying "where is my gift " is a give away. I find the place great along as they think you are poor once they know you have money the tone changes, unhappy, sad and crying is all a act.

These people are extroverted if they ever look different then it is a act. They do not need anything but will take everything if you let them.

This is an interesting discussion, and I appreciate Gangle's "Hunter-Gatherer" analogy. I do know that, at least from the time of the Spaniards, this has been a largely feudal culture, with home and obeisance "owned" to the feudal lord, who in turn takes care of his subjects in return for their perpetual servility. This is how it remains in much of Mindanao, with the traditional Datus almost absolute monarchs who control the fate of their extended clans and loyalists. It's what has allowed the proliferation of private armies, and since the Datu / feudal system has been politicized-and exploited most spectacularly by GMA-these guys have been able to remain in power.

GE

[QUOTE=FreebieFan; 1224758]I suggested to the girl she divorce herself from her parents!

But the only happy ending to this story, is that in all the 14 dates we have had, she has resolutely refused to take one centavo from me. Says to do so would be easy but she would rather live this tough life of hers with pride and self respect.[/QUOTE]My old boss is an American born Filipino-American who currently lives in Wisconsin. His mom, who also lives in Wisconsin (but by herself) , constantly asks him for money even though she's in her early 50s and can easily get a job. For older Filipinos raised in the Philippines, old mooching habits die hard. The younger breed who've never lived in the Philippines don't have a moocher mentality.

By the way, just yesterday, the fourth Filipino was executed in China this year for drug trafficking. Supposedly, his parents had medical bills and kept asking him for money. To get the money, he tried smugglling four pounds of heroin -- and got a lethal injection in return.

Of course, for every moocher story in the Philippines, we hear a few stories about hardworking, principled Filipinos (mostly women) like yours. I went on a date with a girl who refused taxi money and insisted on going home in a jeepney. She was fairly poor too. Those are the people I send a few hundred pesos to for Christmas.

[QUOTE=Questor55;1225000]is this country reaching an evolutionary dead end? Quite possibly so. Perhaps the situation, rather than remaining static, is going to get a lot worse.[/QUOTE]Quite the contrary. It seems the laws of natural selection favors poor people as being more likely to survive.

Many first-world Asian countries have negative population growth. In Japan, at the current rate of population decline, there'd be no one left in Japan in 250 years. At the same time, Filipino families are turning out 6-10 offsprings on average. By sheer numbers, poor people will someday overcome and destroy the rich.

Also, if the Earth suffers some eventual life-altering event (nuclear war, viral pandemic, meteor crash, etc.) , races like the Filipinos are most likely to survive and thrive in the aftermath.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3; 1225072]I think it is due to corruption they think they can take that they are owed something from those that have to give to the others. The saying "where is my gift " is a give away. I find the place great along as they think you are poor once they know you have money the tone changes, unhappy, sad and crying is all a act.

These people are extroverted if they ever look different then it is a act. They do not need anything but will take everything if you let them.[/QUOTE]It would be an interesting social experiment to both.

A) pretend to be a really poor fireigner, build up relationships based on that knowledge and then later reveal that you were fabulously rich.

B) Do the opposite.

Imagine the fun and confusion you could create.

I never fail to be amazed at the head-in-the-sand attitude of those westerners who criticise the Philippines, and particularly those who talk about Phils as a dead end country.

If I remember correctly, the last global financial crisis originated in the USA, and then spread to the other western economies. Governments, in panic, flung vast amounts of money around to keep their economies afloat. Banks and businesses were bailed out with vast amounts of taxpayers money.

What happened in the Phils? Did the govt have to behave this way? No.

Now we have another impending GFC originating out of Europe. They are talking about bail out funds of trillions of dollars. Madness. Does the Phils have to behave this way? No.

The USA has enjoyed a supposedly superiior standard of living, because it has been living on borrowed money.

Same with the Europeans, living on borrowed money.

Now the chickens are coming home to roost.

It is expected that there will be 5 million more foreclosures on homes in the USA in the coming year.

If the USA and the Europeans were forced to repay their borrowed money over the next 10 years, what would the lifestyle be like?

The average westerner lives on debt, multiple credit cards maxed out. Mortgages so high that the numbers make me dizzy.

Does the average Filipino live on debt? Some do, often to loan sharks, often borrowed within the family. But nothing like the westerner.

So, which country is the dead end country? Or countries?

G

[QUOTE=Gangles;1225245]If the USA and the Europeans were forced to repay their borrowed money over the next 10 years, what would the lifestyle be like? The average westerner lives on debt, multiple credit cards maxed out. G[/QUOTE]I don't want to spread the gloom and doom, but it looks like the USA and the Euro's are going to try to inflate their currencies as the way out of the debt burden they created. Wait till the ordinary citizen sees what happens to his purchasing power over the next 10 years. Most people in the USA and Europe don't have a clue to what is coming.

Then take a look at China. They have a real estate bubble about to burst. As the Chinese economy starts to head south, the government will find itself in real trouble for the first time since Tiananmen. I have no idea how that situation is going to turn out. Yeah, things look kind of scary to me worldwide. I am trying to diversify my assets and just stay above water. Hanging out in the PI and living relatively cheap may be a good alternative for those that have the means and ability to escape their home countries. The next election in the USA is the most important election in the last 30 years. The outcome is going to be real interesting. I think it is obvious which side I am on.

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1225245]I never fail to be amazed at the head-in-the-sand attitude of those westerners who criticise the Philippines, and particularly those who talk about Phils as a dead end country.

If I remember correctly, the last global financial crisis originated in the USA, and then spread to the other western economies.[/QUOTE]I hope you're not suggesting life is more comfortable and stable in the Philippines than the United States. I think anyone who'd seriously suggest that has never been to the Philippines. How many Filipinos want to immigrate to the US (even as a maid or laborer)? How many Americans want to immigrate to the Philippines?

Let's not talk about what will happen in the future for the US and the world. Nobody knows. If you were that sure the US will go into the toilet, you'd massively short US equities and make a fortune. We can only talk about now and the recent past. And as unstable US politics is, I should point out the Philippines has had three attempted coups in the last decade and several occasions where martial law was imposed. The last Philippine President is currently under arrest in a government hospital under charges of corruption. The President before that was given a life sentence for corruption and plunder.

Don't get me wrong. I can appreciate living an idyllic lifestyle without debt or foreign wars. But I think it's naive to think life in the Philippines is remotely worryfree or comfortable.

I actually don't mind poverty as much as corruption. People in the Philippines have to watch not stepping on the toes of someone rich or powerful. There's a culture of impunity there where people can commit crimes and hide behind their wealth or office.

I'm immediately reminded of the video below. The mayor of Davao got into policy disagreement with a city sheriff. So in front of reporters and spectators, she socked him in the face repeatedly while most people cheered. There was no consequence for the mayor despite the video being seen by hundreds of thousands.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqTFB9vC8L0[/url]

If a sheriff can be treated that way publicly, what will happen to you or your family if you offend someone rich or powerful?

[QUOTE=FurryFriend; 1225296]I'm immediately reminded of the video below. The mayor of Davao got into policy disagreement with a city sheriff. So in front of reporters and spectators, she socked him in the face repeatedly while most people cheered. There was no consequence for the mayor despite the video being seen by hundreds of thousands.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqTFB9vC8L0[/url]

If a sheriff can be treated that way publicly, what will happen to you or your family if you offend someone rich or powerful?[/QUOTE]The mayor is voted by the people the sheriff is not watching the video it looks like the sheriff knew why he was hit. I wish I could see the same back in aust but our gov is more corrupt at the top so useless police are rewarded not kicked out like here. I like that the local have a say.

As for ecconomy the rest of the would will be PI level one day. Assets can not devalue here much more houses are the only over price assets but even they rent out for a good return.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1225305]The mayor is voted by the people the sheriff is not.[/QUOTE]I didn't know being an elected official entitles you the right to physically assult someone.

In that video, the sheriff was under court order to clear some slums. The mayor opposed the order and took it out on the sheriff.

And people wonder why the Philippines has a lawless reputation.

Some mongers here seem to think that thed Phils is more corrupt than western countries, like thenUSA, or my country, Australia.

So read the recent editions of the Australian papers about corruption at the highest levels of the police forces, even in the agencies that are charged with clearing out corruption. Or go back to the GFC in the USA, when Henry Paulson, then treasury secretary, told his mates in the major banks and hedge funds that Freddie and Fannie wqere about to be nationalised. The banks and hedge funds shorted Freddie and Fannie, and made billions of dollars.

Now that is serious corruption.

Maybe the filipinos have got a few things to learn from us westerners.

As for Americans immigrating to the Philippines! Well, to start, they cannot immigrate to the Phils. But there are some pretty big numbers living in the Phils. Getting away from the rottenness of the USA. And many more living in Thailand, Cambodia, South America, Africa. Same for Australians etc, etc. So the Phils must have something going for it. And many or most of them are not there because it is the only place to live in a limited budget.

As for a first timer arriving at a new country. There are many stories of mongers being ripped off in the Phils. Taxi drivers who rip off a few dollars etc.

My experience as a first time visitor in the USA was a pair of black guys busting into my hotel room, holding me up at gunpoint, bound and gagged, stole everything of value.

Hotel security didn't give a shit. The cops didn't care. But interestingly, it became an international diplomatic incident.

Second time into the US was into La Guardia airport. Hussled at kerb side, bums and beggars husstling for nickles and dimes for helping with bags, taxi, etc.

Then we ended up driving through the Bowery, where the cab was husstled by the ultimate in low life.

Ah, yes, the USA, where life is so good.

Get real.

G

I doubt that most readers of this avid debate are naive enough to believe that corruption doesn't exist within industrialized democracies; of course it does, and NGOs such as Transparency International, among others, do a thorough job of analyzing the extent of corruption in most of the world's countries and reporting on it every year. I forget where the US and Australia ranked in the most recent index of "cleanliness," but it was near the top, though lower than that of the Nordic countries. However, to assume that because corruption is virtually universal, there's no substantive difference between the US and the Philippines or between "the West" and the Philippines, is equally fallacious. The fact is that reasonably stable Government organizations have evolved in the West (and in other places like Japan and Singapore) , and that by and large, they work. The fact is that, in general, the rule of law in these countries works, thanks to functional (not perfect) justice systems. Finally, the fact is that in these countries the corrupt are (often) prosecuted and go to jail. None of these attributes are evident in the Philippines. Then too, the standards of material wealth in the aforementioned countries beggars comparison with the Philippines, which is the only country in ASEAN to have witnessed an actual increase in poverty levels in the last decade.

The differences-both qualitative and quantitative-between the US, Canada, Western Europe, Japan, Singapore (and others) are massive and they're growing. How anyone can perceive even a rough equivalency between countries with per capita GDPs in the range of $20-25, 000 and beyond, and a country that claims a per capita GDP of about $3, 000 is beyond me. To cite one more stark series of comparisons between this place and the rest of the world, the "developed" West and Japan invest, on average, about $9, 000 per child per year in education. Rapidly developing countries in SE Asia, though they don't invest at this level, are increasing their investments: Malaysia now spends more than $2, 000 per year per child, and Vietnam spends about $1, 500. The Philippines spends about $220.

I've said before, and will reiterate here, my belief that there are three general classes of foreigners in this country: those whose work has taken them here and who generally earn Western salaries; missionaries who appear to live pretty good lives while trying to recruit the masses here to their team; and retirees who come here, for the most part, because they've married Filipinas who want to remain or return to their home country and / or have settled here because their retirement funds simply go further. Of course the ready availability of young, nubile punani is probably also a relatively consistent them throughout the sub-groups, though I'm not sure about the sexual behavior of the missionaries, if indeed there is any sexual behavior. These are three distinctly different groups, and it's therefore not so simple to generalize about motivation for relocation, except that in two of the three cases, the impetus seems to be financial.

I understand as well as anyone, that the industrialized world is at a tipping point; that the US economy is weak, the Euro zone is staggering, and that China's export and real estate bubbles could deflate soon, and I understand that the world's economy is in a perilous state. Like everyone who might eventually read this, I claim no special knowledge of whether or how the economic and political crises plaguing the developed world will be resolved. What I do know however, is that this country is basically a failed state right now, whereas most other countries in this region are not, and while there's no certainty, it would surely take a calamity of immesurable proportions for the developed world to descend to the current status of the Philippines.

GE

[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1225579]I doubt that most readers of this avid debate are naive enough to believe that corruption doesn't exist within industrialized democracies; of course it does, and NGOs such as Transparency International, among others, do a thorough job of analyzing the extent of corruption in most of the world's countries and reporting on it every year. I forget where the US and Australia ranked in the most recent index of "cleanliness," but it was near the top, though lower than that of the Nordic countries. However, to assume that because corruption is virtually universal, there's no substantive difference between the US and the Philippines or between "the West" and the Philippines, is equally fallacious. The fact is that reasonably stable Government organizations have evolved in the West (and in other places like Japan and Singapore) , and that by and large, they work. The fact is that, in general, the rule of law in these countries works, thanks to functional (not perfect) justice systems. Finally, the fact is that in these countries the corrupt are (often) prosecuted and go to jail. None of these attributes are evident in the Philippines. Then too, the standards of material wealth in the aforementioned countries beggars comparison with the Philippines, which is the only country in ASEAN to have witnessed an actual increase in poverty levels in the last decade.

The differences-both qualitative and quantitative-between the US, Canada, Western Europe, Japan, Singapore (and others) are massive and they're growing. How anyone can perceive even a rough equivalency between countries with per capita GDPs in the range of $20-25, 000 and beyond, and a country that claims a per capita GDP of about $3, 000 is beyond me. To cite one more stark series of comparisons between this place and the rest of the world, the "developed" West and Japan invest, on average, about $9, 000 per child per year in education. Rapidly developing countries in SE Asia, though they don't invest at this level, are increasing their investments: Malaysia now spends more than $2, 000 per year per child, and Vietnam spends about $1, 500. The Philippines spends about $220.

I've said before, and will reiterate here, my belief that there are three general classes of foreigners in this country: those whose work has taken them here and who generally earn Western salaries; missionaries who appear to live pretty good lives while trying to recruit the masses here to their team; and retirees who come here, for the most part, because they've married Filipinas who want to remain or return to their home country and / or have settled here because their retirement funds simply go further. Of course the ready availability of young, nubile punani is probably also a relatively consistent them throughout the sub-groups, though I'm not sure about the sexual behavior of the missionaries, if indeed there is any sexual behavior. These are three distinctly different groups, and it's therefore not so simple to generalize about motivation for relocation, except that in two of the three cases, the impetus seems to be financial.

I understand as well as anyone, that the industrialized world is at a tipping point; that the US economy is weak, the Euro zone is staggering, and that China's export and real estate bubbles could deflate soon, and I understand that the world's economy is in a perilous state. Like everyone who might eventually read this, I claim no special knowledge of whether or how the economic and political crises plaguing the developed world will be resolved. What I do know however, is that this country is basically a failed state right now, whereas most other countries in this region are not, and while there's no certainty, it would surely take a calamity of immesurable proportions for the developed world to descend to the current status of the Philippines.

GE[/QUOTE]Well said, GE. Although I always enjoy my time in this country, the more I learn about it the more I realize that my experience of corruption is not the same as for locals. The vast bulk of corruption is hidden away and foreigners don't see it. Locals get to pay the "tax" which is a real financial burden to them personally and drives up costs which in turn puts pressure on prices and / or wages. Foreigners are sometimes offered the chance to get out of some awkward or uncomfortable situation by paying what is to them a pittance. If only things were like that in my home country, they think. But corruption is so rife here that it negates the ability of government institutions to function. You are paid such a pittance to do your state job that you opt instead to earn on the side and therefore your chief interest is no longer your function as a state employee. Put this together with the sociological items mentioned in the reports cited earlier, and you have a barely governable state and a disfunctional market that fails to provide sufficient employment or opportunities to millions and severely undermines the wage rates for those in work. This in turn fuels crime. The mugger in a western country may be robbing you because he needs his next fix. The armed mugger in Manila is likely to be robbing you out of shere desperation, to feed his family or get medicine for his kid.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend; 1225311]I didn't know being an elected official entitles you the right to physically assult someone.

In that video, the sheriff was under court order to clear some slums. The mayor opposed the order and took it out on the sheriff.

And people wonder why the Philippines has a lawless reputation.[/QUOTE]Again the court was not a vote from the people. That why the system works they can attack as they are right. Most slums are poor people only assets so unless the gov is paying them then they should fight.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1225697]Again the court was not a vote from the people. That why the system works they can attack as they are right. Most slums are poor people only assets so unless the gov is paying them then they should fight.[/QUOTE]A few years back, Mayor Duarte (sp?) of Davao gained some popularity when he found out about a taxi cab driver violating the rules requiring the use of meters. He had the police drag the taxi driver to his office, whereupon Mayor Duarte personally beat the crap out of the driver. He is also known for all but endorsing the "death squad" that saves the courts time by finding known drug dealers and criminals and simply having them killed.

That mayor enjoyed tremendous popularity because of his lawless reputation. Interestingly, this mayor was educated in the US, and now his daughter is the mayor of Davao.

RG

[QUOTE=Radical Guy; 1225705]A few years back, Mayor Duarte (sp?) of Davao gained some popularity when he found out about a taxi cab driver violating the rules requiring the use of meters. He had the police drag the taxi driver to his office, whereupon Mayor Duarte personally beat the crap out of the driver. He is also known for all but endorsing the "death squad" that saves the courts time by finding known drug dealers and criminals and simply having them killed.

RG[/QUOTE]The Davao Death Squad (DDS) was active for almost a decade before it went away after the US threatened to withhold financial aid if it was discovered that any government there were involved. Many believed Dutarte was behind the DDS or at least turned a blind eye.

Even the most ardent supporter of Dutarte's draconian approach would be kidding himself if he thinks only guilty people were killed. Many innocent people were killed as well as Dutarte's political enemies. Dutarte would read off a long list of people on TV whom he said were suspected criminals and some on that list would wind up dead. Imagine if YOU somehow wound up on that list because of a mistake or he didn't like your political views.

Most Davao residents indeed supported him. This reflects the sorry state of Philippine society when lawlessness is celebrated instead of having a proper and civilized legal system to deal with criminals.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1225697]Again the court was not a vote from the people. That why the system works they can attack as they are right. Most slums are poor people only assets so unless the gov is paying them then they should fight.[/QUOTE]

Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. I suggest you do research on the story behind the video before voicing an opinion. Because if you did, you'd realize the cop being hit on the video has nothing to do with the court ruling.

With all due respect to those who make claims to know about Davao, most of you don't know the actual political situation here. Yes, Sarah Duterte, the Mayor punched the Sherrif in front the TV cameras, but it's important to understand the context. She had basically been up for two days, doing what she could to help poor local residents displaced by recent floods. The squatters whom the Sherrif were trying to evict were close to rioting, and all she asked the Sherrif was for a couple of hours so she could calm people down and try to help them find alternative housing. Her request, particularly in the context of the onoing flood calamity was, in my opinon, reasonable and justified in light of the restiveness of the people being evicted. So by hitting him publicly she may very well have averted a much nastier riot, and if this guy had had two functioning brain cells, he would have acceded to her request.

As to the DDS, I know no more about them than any foreigner. What I do know-from my asawa and from others here in the pre-Duterte era-is that Davao was almost unlivable and more akin to the wild west than to what it is now, which is one of the few centers of good news in the country, attracting massive investment and expanding employment opportunities for its citizens. It's clean, with decent municipal services, and I've never heard anyone here breathe a single suspicion that the Mayor has profited from this. There's no doubt that he's been a transformational figure, and he created an enclave of peace and relative prosperity in Mindanao, the poorest region in the country and he did this in a country that has virtually no functioning system of justice or working national institutions. Davao is actually an excellent place to live, and he's largely accountable for that fact. His daughter is carrying on his policies and she's doing it well. Context in this case, is everything.

GE

[quote=goodenough; 1225786]as to the dds, i know no more about them than any foreigner. what i do know-from my asawa and from others here in the pre-duterte era-is that davao was almost unlivable and more akin to the wild west than to what it is now, which is one of the few centers of good news in the country,

ge[/quote]

i have no problem with dutarte's brand of vigilante street justice if society is out of control. it's indeed worth a few innocent lives if millions can live in peace and safety.

but it seems that kind of justice was the only thing davao had in place. for all his tough talk, he spent no effort building a modern legal system and professional police force. it was all muscle and bullets and no brains. security and justice were vested in one man and a shadowy group of executioners.

i'm sure that kind of wild west system is fine for most -- unless you or someone you care about becomes falsely accused and you have no recourse when dds agents come looking. if a street girl falsely accuses you of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url], you have to deal with this frightening justice system where one guy determines your fate without appeal in a smoke-filled back room.

one would also need to be delusional if he didn't think some dds victims were targeted merely for opposing dutarte.

i'm all for strict law and order. singapore has it. but the kind that reigned in davao came from the subjective power of a few unchecked people. i know their justice system is less wild now as extrajudicial killings have decreased in davao. so i wouldn't exactly say his daughter is carrying on his policies.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend; 1225793]I have no problem with Dutarte's kind of vigilante and street justice if society is out of control. It's indeed worth a few innocent lives if millions can live in peace and safety.

But it seems that kind of justice was the only thing Davao had in place. They didn't even try to build a modern legal system and professional police force. Security and justice were vested in one man and a shadowy group of executioners. One would need to be delusional if he didn't think some were targeted merely for opposing Dutarte or for in Davao.[/QUOTE]However, it's worthwhile noting that there are no city policy forces in the Philippines as the entire police force is national, and the city mayors do not control them. Ditto with the justice system, which is also national and does not report to any local official, so the Mayor has no official law enforcement powers. In my view, though you may question his methods, Duterte has created nothing less than an oasis of safety and calm in a fractious, often lawless region. I was reflecting on this a bit last night as we went to De Bonte Koe-which is in the middle of the downtown area-for dinner. There were throngs of people on the street; the bars, clubs and restaurants were almost full, and people were having a thoroughly enjoyable time.

Just as an aside, there's been a spate of recent kidnappings in Mindanao-though none in Davao. On his TV program earlier this week, Duterte mentioned that if these elements want to set foot in Davao, they're not going to leave the city while breathing. It's all fine with me. The rule of law only works when the laws are enforced. I'm thankful that Duterte cleaned this place up before I came to live here, and I thoroughly appreciate how safe I feel.

GE

[QUOTE=GoodEnough;1225795]However, it's worthwhile noting that there are no city policy forces in the Philippines as the entire police force is national, and the city mayors do not control them. Ditto with the justice system, which is also national and does not report to any local official, so the Mayor has no official law enforcement powers. In my view, though you may question his methods, Duterte has created nothing less than an oasis of safety and calm in a fractious, often lawless region. I was reflecting on this a bit last night as we went to De Bonte Koe-which is in the middle of the downtown area-for dinner. There were throngs of people on the street; the bars, clubs and restaurants were almost full, and people were having a thoroughly enjoyable time.[/QUOTE]My point is that Rodrigo Dutarte's kind of street justice was probably a necessary evil but that, at some point, it has to be replaced by more civilized justice. I just never got the perception that he wanted or cared about civilized justice. For him, he didn't see his policies as necessary evil but a desirable permanent form justice that he controlled with guns.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1225804]My point is that Rodrigo Dutarte's kind of street justice was probably a necessary evil but that, at some point, it has to be replaced by more civilized justice. I just never got the perception that he wanted or cared about civilized justice. For him, he didn't see his policies as necessary evil but a desirable permanent form justice that he controlled with guns.[/QUOTE]I've met the Mayor exactly twice, and my total conversation with him was probably about ten seconds, so I don't know what he thinks, about his system or about anything else. What I think is that he was determined to make Davao a place that was safe to invest and where people felt secure, and he's succeeded. No argument about the need for a functional justice system, but that's so far beyond his control that it's not even a pinpoint on the horizon.

GE

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1225730]Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. I suggest you do research on the story behind the video before voicing an opinion. Because if you did, you'd realize the cop being hit on the video has nothing to do with the court ruling.[/QUOTE]I think you need to get a idea your anti PI posts are getting on people nerves please stick to Hong kong you clueless about PI.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1225853]I think you need to get a idea your anti PI posts are getting on people nerves please stick to Hong kong you clueless about PI.[/QUOTE]Furry has been in/out phils for a long time, and has 300+ posts (more than you). To say that he needs to "get an idea" would be incorrect (even if his 'idea' is not to your liking). The beauty of being a lover of freedom (as you are, right?) is the willingness to let others speak their mind, even if you don't agree with them.

[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1225795]The rule of law only works when the laws are enforced.

GE[/QUOTE]Now this needs to be repeated about 1000 times.

I wonder when the politically correct brain washed zombies of the west world will wake up and understand that a strong leader can mean so much more safety and freedom than a the non functioning implementation of "civilized justice" we have in most of the "modern west world". I will not discuss politics here since it is only opinions, but if I could, I would clone Roddy and install his double where I live. In Davao the people that behave are safe and the ones that misbehave are handled. Hell of a lot better than what I see around me.

B.

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1225524]So read the recent editions of the Australian papers about corruption at the highest levels of the police forces, even in the agencies that are charged with clearing out corruption. Or go back to the GFC in the USA, when Henry Paulson, then treasury secretary, told his mates in the major banks and hedge funds that Freddie and Fannie wqere about to be nationalised. The banks and hedge funds shorted Freddie and Fannie, and made billions of dollars.

Now that is serious corruption.

G[/QUOTE]Amen, Ganges! The list can be made so extremely long. On so many levels. Paulson, Ebbers, Fuld, Grubman, Standard & Poor's and the other CRA's, City, etc.

Systematic corruption that rarely is penalized. This corrupt structure also include all the extreme socialistic leaches just sitting on their asses handing out tax money to other people doing nothing. Corrupt as well!

B.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1225804]My point is that Rodrigo Dutarte's kind of street justice was probably a necessary evil but that, at some point, it has to be replaced by more civilized justice. I just never got the perception that he wanted or cared about civilized justice. For him, he didn't see his policies as necessary evil but a desirable permanent form justice that he controlled with guns.[/QUOTE]Funny. Is this the same family who's brother had a tiff with a foreigner about "who is bigger than who" match, when the latter planted a public safety notice board.

Wonder what Sarah's brother did? He piled his goons into a jeep, drove over to the foreigner's house and told him who is the boss in town, and went on to threaten the foreigner with eviction with proper process done at BI and everywhere.

Law? What Law? AS long as you are in the winning side, it is legal. If you cross over, you are illegal. Kaput.

Over and out.

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1225878]Furry has been in/out phils for a long time, and has 300+ posts (more than you). To say that he needs to "get an idea" would be incorrect (even if his 'idea' is not to your liking). The beauty of being a lover of freedom (as you are, right?) is the willingness to let others speak their mind, even if you don't agree with them.[/QUOTE]Read the forum before you post too I was reply to his lack of knowledge about local policy enforcement . I do not think a higher post count is relevant to this issue . As for his visit to PI it still no comparison to some who lives here. As he was corrected by another posted who lives here. I not sure why you are posting replies to me about this as he knows he got it wrong. So move on nothing to see here no extra pussy.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1226508]As for his visit to PI it still no comparison to some who lives here.[/QUOTE]Everyone's entitled to state their opinion (even you). Doesn't mean he's right.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1226508]As he was corrected by another posted who lives here.[/QUOTE]Really? What post? Another gent simply supplied his opinion, which differed from Furry's. Its possible both (or neither) gent is correct.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1226508]I not sure why you are posting replies to me about this as he knows he got it wrong. So move on nothing to see here no extra pussy.[/QUOTE]I responded because you attempted to stymie another member from expressing in the general forum.

I don't see Furry saying he got anything wrong.

This is the general forum thread. We talk about whatever we want to talk about. Other threads are for pussy. Feel free to PM me.

Frenzy3 is probably the only posting forum member who actually has been living and working in typical Philippine lower social-economic, (not foreigner enclave) neighborhoods for some years. As such his opinions on many subjects, are IMHO more valid than those of many of the posters on the Philippine threads.

This is a country of dynastic politics; a country in which offices are "owned" by families, and get passed back and forth among family members like a basketball. There are no functional political parties, only personality cults that form and reform as dictated by political exigencies. Thus, the political system is closed; restricted to those whose families have memberships. The effectiveness of municipal or provincial administration then depends largely on the personality and proclivities of whatever dynast happens to be in power, since there are eno viable institutions to perpetuate continuity.

Davao is fortunate in that the dynasty by which it is ruled is committed to peace, security and the wellbeing of the city's residents. Other places aren't so fortunate, and are stuck with rulers interested only in their own aggrandizement and that of their family. Given the absence of a true electoral process, the character of each city is more or less determined by the luck of the draw.

GE

[QUOTE=Barba;1226326]I wonder when the politically correct brain washed zombies of the west world will wake up and understand that a strong leader can mean so much more safety and freedom[/QUOTE]I think it's more zombie-like to entrust one man to dish out punishment behind a closed door.

Even if he has the noblest intent, Rodrigo Duterte is prone to humanly mistakes and biases just like everyone else. While no form of criminal justice is perfect, his brand does not allow his foibles to be checked, challenged and corrected by others. You might be a fan of his methods until you become falsely accused of a crime and you have no recourse but to answer to his thugs.

One reason the Philippines does not attract much foreign investment and tourists is, there's a general perception that the country is lawless. Duterte's brand of cowboy justice reinforces the perception. What you are supporting unintentionally perpetuates poverty in the country. Like it or not, the Philippines exists in a community of nations. What others think about the Philippines matters greatly, particularly those from the West.

Other Asian countries once poorer and more corrupt than the Philippines have developed into first-world status without resorting to his methods.

[QUOTE=GoodEnough;1226622]This is a country of dynastic politics; a country in which offices are "owned" by families, and get passed back and forth among family members like a basketball. There are no functional political parties, only personality cults that form and reform as dictated by political exigencies. Thus, the political system is closed;[/QUOTE]The only thing I have to add to your correct assessment is, the voting public supports this type of political fiefdom. I'd bet a vast majority of people who voted for Benigno Aquino couldn't describe his political philosophy. They voted for his bloodline and a few catchy campaign slogans. Philippine democracy is all style and no substance designed to perpetuate wealth amongst a small group of dynasties and the Catholic Church.

Filipinos in general are not sophisticated enough to cast an informed vote and the country is not ready for liberal democracy. If I were a politician in the Philippines, I'd run on a platform to return the country to American colonial rule.

In the end I guess it is mostly opinions, and perhaps more worth for our dented egos than anything else, but I will respond anyway. There are no intentions to flame anyone in my post and I do not feel I have to convince or "win" over anyone. This is just my own opinions, based on my narrow life experience. So here I go;

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1226703]I think it's more zombie-like to entrust one man to dish out punishment behind a closed door.[/QUOTE]You are maybe right, but looking at Belgium today sure makes the grass look green in Davao. How many times was this guy in jail before he killed and harmed all those families? Such a tragedy. But, sure it is a huge simplification to say that the elderly of Europe would feel and be safer, if we only had a Duterte here. Maybe somewhere in between what we have today, and Davao or Singapore would be good. As someone wrote, a system as Duterte's is good as long as your on the winning team. And then when suddenly you are not, your "tax" will take a huge jump, for sure. Or worse (just look at Solemo and Sederholm who where ignorant enough not to pay that tax). I remember how safe I always felt in Iran, but for my female employees the reality looked quite different with constant harassments and abuse from the monkeys in uniform. So yea, it is all about your current perspective.

Speaking of monkeys in uniform, I just returned from Venezuela (where I also had production in the past but closed due to the unpredictable economy and lack of work ethics) and perhaps that totally f*cked up country is the best evidence against my previous claim. They did absolutely not get a good draw in the dictator lottery. Extremely insecure and unpredictable country to do anything in (but pretty and curvy females, as well as beautiful nature). I guess my cry for a hard leader is just frustration over the slap on the fingers-punishments that are handed out over and over again in the civilized Europe. We need a clean up here. Desperately.

I have been running a company in the Davao for some years now and we feed at times way over 100 people including the families, according to my staff. I ship money into the country, so I do not compete with the local market. I would not be in Davao if it was not for the stability created by Duterte.

Sure the idea that a country is lawless will demotivate some types of investors from setting up manufacturing / production, but the argumentation is a simplification of both the poverty of the Philippines and the mechanisms of any kind of business. All partners and / or friends I have, will focus on several parameters, and the security parameter is often not so hard to handle. Government stability, education systems, work ethics / culture, inflation, (labor) laws, union, infrastructure, suppliers, taxation amongst others, are much more crucial in that choice, according to my perspective. China and not the Philippines is the choice for production of plastic and electrical gizmos for very obvious reasons, and they are not related to the security of the owners of the companies (and even less so when the staff is considered). The same goes for Bangladesh, Paki, India, etc. IMHO it is not so hard to run a company in the Philippines. It is actually quite strait forward, as long as you do not take bread out of some pinoys mouth. But to find well educated people is a real challenge. And even once you do find them, you will have a challenge to simply get them to perform an honest days work. This is the "as if"-country. Even "highly educated" engineers often totally lack self motivation and will pretend as if they are working 100% many times, when they in fact will stop at 60-80% in just about anything relating to their work (including work hours). This is according to my experience not the mentality I found when I engaged in similar setups in China, Vietnam or Thailand. (Pakistan was however just as bad when it came to self motivation and work ethics, but I was only running a setup there for less than a year, so I have not so much general experience.)

As humans we can feel extremely exposed in a lawless society, as well as totally safe if your one of the temporary winners. This will affect our judgment of how important we consider personal safety in various matters, but I am not so sure that financial development of a country is lead by crime rate to any particular extent. Maybe I am wrong and will stand corrected if any of our statistics gurus can show some numbers on this (needless to say to many here, correlation is not cause).

When it comes to tourists I am neither so sure. Just look at Rome or Barcelona. I think the fact that the food sucks and that you can not walk down the beach more than 50-100 meters in the Philippines is a much bigger deal breaker, when it comes to attracting people from for example the much more expensive LOS.

American colonial rule is in my belief not such a great idea at the moment. Neither would I let Greece handle the show. And Silvio does not get my vote either. I read somewhere once that if Hillary Clinton was elected President, the White House would have been occupied by a Bush or a Clinton for 24/28 years. Add to this these family senators, as well and other families that have been / are in political power. Did the Kennedy's have anyone that was NOT a politician! One of them even married Arnold, the steroid senator. LOL.

What a relief that we are so sophisticated in the civilized west.

[url]https://sites.google.com/site/bushclintonforever/[/url]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_political_families[/url]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_noted_U.S._presidential_relatives[/url] (did you by the way know that Bill's half brother Roger was a coke smuggler? At least he was not a politician that got the ball.)

B.

"The only thing I have to add to your correct assessment is, the voting public supports this type of political fiefdom. I'd bet a vast majority of people who voted for Benigno Aquino couldn't describe his political philosophy. They voted for his bloodline and a few catchy campaign slogans. Philippine democracy is all style and no substance designed to perpetuate wealth amongst a small group of dynasties and the Catholic Church."

There's lots of truth in this statement. Remember, this is a largely uneducated, ill-informed electorate that is, for the most part, used to following orders of the "big man (or woman)" be he (or she) datu, mayor, barangay captain or clan leader. This isn't going to change any time soon. It's a system consciously perpetuated by the institutions of government, including the church, because in the end, it's all about how much you can steal, how much power you can usurp and retain, and how solidly you can spin your web of key connections. This is a failed state and, while not immutable, it's not going to mutate into anything else anytime soon.

It's only within this context that the Duterte "rule" of Davao can be understood. He cannot create viable national institutions. He cannot create a viable justice system, nor can he eliminate, or even much affect the extent of corruption throughout the country. Therefore, I believe, he's seized the only practical option available, and tried to create a viable city. And as I said, he's largely succeeded in this quest. As a citizen of a functional liberal democracy you may be appalled at the "strong man" rule, but again, it has to be put into the context of this place at this time. Speaking as an expat who lives here, appreciates the security and safety that he feels, and revels in the total lack of fear, I don't mind it at all.

GE

"The rule of law only works when the laws are enforced".

"This is a country of dynastic politics; a country in which offices are "owned" by families, and get passed back and forth among family members like a basketball".

Surely this must be referring to my country, where the law is that honour killings are illegal. But they happen, and not one person has been arrested. Where genital mutilation of young girls is iillegal, but it is rife, without a single arrest. Where thousands of breaches of the law are ignored, where political correctness is far more powerful than the system of "civilised" law.

Where the government of the day hands out ministries to mates in the unions, and siphons off billions of dollars of taxpayers money into union coffers, and union leaders' bank accounts. Where the "Climate Change Commissioner" is paid $50 million in so-called research contracts, and then the government boasts that he is speaking independently.

The difference between the Australian system and the Filipino system is purely one of scale and numbers. Australia has a lot more money, corruption is on a far grander scale than the Phils, but it goes to many fewer people.

B

I decided to get a Nokia phone repaired after it lay in a drawer for the past 6 months with some minor malfunction. I use a Blackberry these days but thought I could get the Nokia repaired.

Silly decision.

Place: Nokia Service Center. 4th Floor SM Megamall in Ortigas.

Time: 3pm on the busiest Sunday of the whole year (1 week before Christmas)

I dutifully took my number tag (37) from the guard as I entered so I could wait on the "repairs" line. I noticed that all seats were occupied by waiting clients (30 or so) , and the number currently being attended to was 23. There were about 20 more people waiting to PICK UP repaired phones (and that's another number set).

Then I noticed that there were only 2 (TWO) service agents dealing with customers. The other 4 (FOUR) desks available in the shop were unoccupied.

I stood for 5 mins and then asked the guard who was the manager. He pointed to a guy leaning against a wall in the corner texting on his phone.

I went over and asked him, politely of course, why he had only 2 agents on the desk when anyone with half a brain would know that today, the last Sunday before Christmas, would be busy. I suggested, politely again, that he should have rostered his staff to have all 6 desks going.

His reply. "Sir. It is Sunday, and this is their day off. They are entitled to it".

My reply (made after I had shaken my head back and forth 10 times was "Here is your #37 back. I will return my damaged Nokia back to my cabinet. If this is Nokia Service, then thank God I use Blackberry".

He shrugged, and went back to his texting.

The flash flooding calamity was centered around Cagayan de Oro and Iligan to the west. Heavy rains resulted in torrents of water and debris smashing into neighbourhoods in the middle of the night. Death toll presently stands at 1400 and is likely to climb. Most dwellings of the poor are incredibly flimsy due to cheap or cast off materials, weak or non-existent foundations, and general construction often displaying minimal building skills, if that. There are a number of villages between CDO and Iligan that cluster around local streams and rivers. They also will have suffered catastrophic damage. Storm warnings were often ignored as Mindanao lies beneath the traditional seasonal storm tracks. It's a reality that poverty implies living life on the edge. The daily balancing act leaves no margin. Therefore, events that would cause minor inconvenience in The First World Nations, frequently have devastating results here in The Philippines.

Red kit pay a pino to wait for you they need the money and love doing nothing.

I love this place I have gf's and never see a que I always have a Pino or pina with me and they do all the boring and dumb stuff so I can do other stuff like time with other girls etc

[QUOTE=Questor55;1228112]The flash flooding calamity was centered around Cagayan de Oro and Iligan to the west. Heavy rains resulted in torrents of water and debris smashing into neighbourhoods in the middle of the night. Death toll presently stands at 1400 and is likely to climb. Most dwellings of the poor are incredibly flimsy due to cheap or cast off materials, weak or non-existent foundations, and general construction often displaying minimal building skills, if that. There are a number of villages between CDO and Iligan that cluster around local streams and rivers. They also will have suffered catastrophic damage. Storm warnings were often ignored as Mindanao lies beneath the traditional seasonal storm tracks. It's a reality that poverty implies living life on the edge. The daily balancing act leaves no margin. Therefore, events that would cause minor inconvenience in The First World Nations, frequently have devastating results here in The Philippines.[/QUOTE]The news stations and the newspapers here are reporting a figure of somehwere around 500 dead. I'm not sure where you got the 1, 400 number, but if true, it's an even bigger calamity than I thought. Mindanao rarely experiences typhoons or tropical storms, and I suppose that's one of the reasons that so many ignored the evacuation orders broadcast by Pagasa begining three days before the storm hit.

GE

[QUOTE=GoodEnough;1228175]The news stations and the newspapers here are reporting a figure of somehwere around 500 dead. I'm not sure where you got the 1, 400 number, but if true, it's an even bigger calamity than I thought.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately the updates are nearer to the 1400 figure.

"The death toll has risen to 652 with around 800 others still missing.

346 people killed in Cagayan de Oro city and 206 in nearby Iligan city.

447 reported missing in Iligan and 347 in Cagayan de Oro.

[quote=frenzy3; 1228174]red kit pay a pino to wait for you they need the money and love doing nothing.

i love this place i have gf's and never see a que i always have a pino or pina with me and they do all the boring and dumb stuff so i can do other stuff like time with other girls etc[/quote]yes frenzy. getting others to line up for me is a possible solution but it misses the point i was making. any manager with ability to plan and organize (manage) would have rostered additional staff to work on the busiest day of the year. there were 2 overworked staff; he was doing nothing and the line of people waiting stretched out side his shop. it was the sheer indifference to it that was so bewildering to me.

note that i also love living here too because the positives outweigh the negatives, but occasionally some of these negatives are so frustrating because they can be very very very easily improved by the simplest of solutions.

btw, you should use pinoys and pinays when you are referring to filipinos and filipinas (and not pinos and pinas).

pinas are actually "pineapples". pinos are probably a variety of grape although usually spelled "pinot".

I want to open a bank account in AC when I arrive. What info do they require? Can I open a dollar account? Can I get a atm card on the spot? What banks do you recommend?

[quote=red kilt; 1228225]yes frenzy. getting others to line up for me is a possible solution but it misses the point i was making. any manager with ability to plan and organize (manage) would have rostered additional staff to work on the busiest day of the year. there were 2 overworked staff; he was doing nothing and the line of people waiting stretched out side his shop. it was the sheer indifference to it that was so bewildering to me.

note that i also love living here too because the positives outweigh the negatives, but occasionally some of these negatives are so frustrating because they can be very very very easily improved by the simplest of solutions.

btw, you should use pinoys and pinays when you are referring to filipinos and filipinas (and not pinos and pinas).

pinas are actually "pineapples". pinos are probably a variety of grape although usually spelled "pinot".[/quote]yeah i do abbreviate the two words pinoys and pinays i am sure people reading do not think about pineapples or grapes. as for management i lived here long enough to know that it will never improve as that is one business culture thing that can not change is the longer you work for a company the more you get paid and moved up the chain, even i have to do it in my own business as the longer a staff is with you the more the new staff respect them and you. did the staff complain only 2 of them where working? do they like the boss? who cares what the customer satisfaction is this is pi at least some one has a job.

[QUOTE=Amjeck;1228239]I want to open a bank account in AC when I arrive. What info do they require? Can I open a dollar account? Can I get a atm card on the spot? What banks do you recommend?[/QUOTE]How long you plan to stay. It can take a week to get a atm card some banks, and dollar account may not have atm card so you need to contact the bank to withdraw dollars

[QUOTE=Amjeck;1228239]I want to open a bank account in AC when I arrive. What info do they require? Can I open a dollar account? Can I get a atm card on the spot? What banks do you recommend?[/QUOTE]I recommend Bank of the Philippines Islands. They have branches and ATMs everywhere. They also have a simple version of internet banking but I would advise making sure that you understand it before leaving the bank. Best to start with one of the largest branches as they have more personnel in customer service.

Of course, no bank is as safe as we thought they were just a few years ago! But from what I have been able to find out in my own amateur way, it would appear that BPI is ok. But don't take my word for it. I just maintain relatively small balances with the bank and so if it goes bust I won't cry too much!

Yes, they do dollar accounts. But remember that when you withdraw at an ATM you can only get Pesos and you have no control over the exchange rate when they take money out of the dollar account. Many folks maintain a peso account as well which they use for ATMs and checking and top it up on the web from their dollar account.

You won't be able to get an ATM card on the spot. If memory serves me right, I was able to get an ATM card within about 5 working days (much quicker than Western countries).

I was able to do all of this with just a foreign passport. You will need to provide a secure address in the Philippines for them to send stuff to you. I used the office of a friend and they did not mind.

You will wait may weeks or even months before you will have your account set up with at least some of the foreign banks. That is even if you have an account with that foreign bank in your own country, as a friend of mine experienced!

Most banks will insist on a minimum balance at least on dollar accounts. I cannot remember how much but I think it is a few hundred dollars. If you break the condition you incur account charges.

The conditions above only apply to personal accounts. I don't know business accounts conditions.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1228255]How long you plan to stay. It can take a week to get a atm card some banks, and dollar account may not have atm card so you need to contact the bank to withdraw dollars[/QUOTE]A month or longer. I want to bring cash and deposit in bank then withdrawl as I travel around. I think its better than carrying cash with me everywhere. I could do atm withdrawls with my foreign bank, but the fees are to high and the minimum pesos I can pull is like 10-15k (Too small) I think.

No banks can issue an atm card on the spot?

Guys,

I do not wish, IN ANY WAY, to downplay the enormity of the terrible floods in Northern Mindanao (specifically CdO and Iligan City) , but be careful with the number of requests proliferating on the internet for assistance following the tragic floods.

The floods were dreadful and no doubt many of the girls on DIA and even many of the b/gs in AC, Cebu and Manila will have family there, so if you know the girl and that her needs are real then by all means help in any way you can BUT watch out for the scammers, since I have had 2 examples already.

Example 1. A girl hits me up on YM with an offline message obviously sent to all her contacts asking to please help her and her family who have been wiped out by the floods. She had forgotten that we had met in Manila around 3 weeks ago when her whole family had moved from CdO to Caloocan because of her father's work. Her DIA still shows her living in CdO.

SPRUNG!

I waited until she was online and asked her which lie was the real one. Her now living in Caloocan or the family losing everything in the floods in Cdo.

She told me I was an asshole and then blocked me.

Example 2. Another girl from CdO on YM who has been online all day for 3 days soliciting funds, and sending out offline requests saying she is desperate and has no clothes and no money for food as their house was destroyed.

This girl lives in a community a long way from the river in an elevated area and I know she cannot be flooded out. I also know they have a computer at home.

I sent her an email saying I was really glad she was safe and that she and her family must also be OK if she can be away from them all day chatting and can afford to use an internet cafe all day.

She replied with "I cannot get to internet cafe because of floods. I am using my computer at home".

I responded "But you said your house was destroyed"

Silence. Followed by disconnection.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1228576]Guys,

I do not wish, IN ANY WAY, to downplay the enormity of the terrible floods in Northern Mindanao (specifically CdO and Iligan City) , but be careful with the number of requests proliferating on the internet for assistance following the tragic floods.

The floods were dreadful and no doubt many of the girls on DIA and even many of the be / gs in AC, Cebu and Manila will have family there, so if you know the girl and that her needs are real then by all means help in any way you can BUT watch out for the scammers, since I have had 2 examples already.

Example 1. A girl hits me up on YM with an offline message obviously sent to all her contacts asking to please help her and her family who have been wiped out by the floods. She had forgotten that we had met in Manila around 3 weeks ago when her whole family had moved from CdO to Caloocan because of her father's work. Her DIA still shows her living in CdO.

SPRUNG!

I waited until she was online and asked her which lie was the real one. Her now living in Caloocan or the family losing everything in the floods in Cdo.

She told me I was an asshole and then blocked me.

Example 2. Another girl from CdO on YM who has been online all day for 3 days soliciting funds, and sending out offline requests saying she is desperate and has no clothes and no money for food as their house was destroyed.

This girl lives in a community a long way from the river in an elevated area and I know she cannot be flooded out. I also know they have a computer at home.

I sent her an email saying I was really glad she was safe and that she and her family must also be OK if she can be away from them all day chatting and can afford to use an internet cafe all day.

She replied with "I cannot get to internet cafe because of floods. I am using my computer at home".

I responded "But you said your house was destroyed"

Silence. Followed by disconnection.[/QUOTE]Red Kilt,

I am sure that any aid money from mongers will come attached to a dog collar, chain and a standing Hampton high on Viagra. The victims of the flood scam will most likely come from dating sites and are unlikely to have mongered. Mongering seems to imbue its practitioners with a healthy dose of skepticism.

[QUOTE=Amjeck; 1228286]A month or longer. I want to bring cash and deposit in bank then withdrawl as I travel around. I think its better than carrying cash with me everywhere. I could do atm withdrawls with my foreign bank, but the fees are to high and the minimum pesos I can pull is like 10-15k (Too small) I think.

No banks can issue an atm card on the spot?[/QUOTE]You can take out 40k a day depending on your bank at home just 10k lots (citi does 15k hsbc 20k)

Some bpi will offer you ATM card but only peso account my dollar account has a $750 min bal. And I have to call the bank days before to get aud so I can take money out.

For a short stay of only one month just use your home ATM card. The ques in banks can be long PI has no customer service it just you learn to be patient.

[quote=frenzy3; 1228652]you can take out 40k a day depending on your bank at home just 10k lots (citi does 15k hsbc 20k)

some bpi will offer you atm card but only peso account my dollar account has a $750 min bal. And i have to call the bank days before to get aud so i can take money out.

For a short stay of only one month just use your home atm card. The ques in banks can be long pi has no customer service it just you learn to be patient.[/quote]the hsbc is 45000, at 1 time.

If you are going to give, donate to Red Cross. They are pretty active down there, and really need help right now.

I already got hit with scams. Do not give, if you do not kow the girl intimately. I agree with redkilt here.

But help out if and when you can.

Best regards to all.

CT

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger; 1228640]Red Kilt,

I am sure that any aid money from mongers will come attached to a dog collar, chain and a standing Hampton high on Viagra. The victims of the flood scam will most likely come from dating sites and are unlikely to have mongered. Mongering seems to imbue its practitioners with a healthy dose of skepticism.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Frenzy3; 1228652]You can take out 40k a day depending on your bank at home just 10k lots (citi does 15k hsbc 20k)

Some bpi will offer you ATM card but only peso account my dollar account has a $750 min bal. And I have to call the bank days before to get aud so I can take money out.

For a short stay of only one month just use your home ATM card. The ques in banks can be long PI has no customer service it just you learn to be patient.[/QUOTE]To Frenzy

I don't like to bring too much cash also and my US atm card with chase and Citibank been increasing their fee for oversea ATM withdraw, I also bring Amex traveller check and only use ATM card in emergency only.

Fast Eddie 48

[QUOTE=Cool Traveler; 1228721]If you are going to give, donate to Red Cross. They are pretty active down there, and really need help right now.

I already got hit with scams. Do not give, if you do not kow the girl intimately. I agree with redkilt here.

But help out if and when you can.

Best regards to all.

CT[/QUOTE]A lot of 'charities' in the Philippines are scams. Be very very careful, money rarely gets to the needy. Local Filipinos will confirm this. They laugh when one talks about charities and say they would never give money to them. Foreign governments try and give goods rather than money to try and get round the theft and corruption.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1228652]You can take out 40k a day depending on your bank at home just 10k lots (citi does 15k hsbc 20k)[/QUOTE]So every time you pull a 10k you get whacked with at least $5. To get roughly $1k out you'd have to spend $20 or 2. I think that's a bit expensive. Also, are there better exchange rates with cash conversion at exchange booths or with ATM withdrawls?

[QUOTE=Amjeck;1229069]So every time you pull a 10k you get whacked with at least $5. To get roughly $1k out you'd have to spend $20 or 2. I think that's a bit expensive. Also, are there better exchange rates with cash conversion at exchange booths or with ATM withdrawls?[/QUOTE]Okay, let me put it this way. Is there any place where you must pay to get a job, even in restaurants?

In Philippines, yes, you must pay something like 5, 000 peso or more, to get 'short listed' and that is NOT BRIBE. It is payment levied by the employers to stop time-wasters, or so they say and no, the 5, 000 don't get returned whether you get selected or not.

So in essence, Filipinos put up with this kind of crap, and the banks, almost all, are privately owned. So they think they are doing the right thing paying to withdraw money.

So, smart people like us, keep cash (carefully hidden and disbursed) and minimse ATM withdrawal, (oh, not to forget that at more than a few ATMs, guys loiter around to whack you off. And it is more scary when the bank security is walking with the trigger finger ready.) of course. Use credit cards to pay for anything major. And when doing ATM withdrawal, withdraw max, whether needed or not.

Not sure where to post this. This is from a newb (he has one post in a thread in the middle-east). I get about one a month like this in PM:

[I]I was thinking to go philipien 14th of January for 21 days maybe more, I would love to ask a few quiestion and if you would give me advice I will be very happy. I like to know which part philipien I should go for party? Do you know any hotel you can tell me or people you might know? It's would be great any info you could give me. Thank you[/I]

I think its in bad form for newbs (even long-time lurkers) to hit us up for information before going there. Really, go get a travel guide. Before contacting us here for info about the country, please do the following:

1. Take a trip there.

2. Post at least one full Field Report (include hotel review, chica review, food review).

This goes for any newb to the country. You need to give something to the thread first (a FR would be nice). THEN feel free to ask me where the laundromats are located near G-Point. Also, it is not possible to give specific answers to broad-based questions:

"Where is best place for party?" I don't know, as I don't attend parties. Party with locals? Party with expats?

"Where is best hotel?" Best hotel in what category: price, ambiance, location, pool, bar? My idea of a good hotel is different than yours.

"Where is best place to meet girls in Filipines?" EVERYWHERE, but its a stupid question that's not really answerable.

Other gents?

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1229096]I think its in bad form for newbs (even long-time lurkers) to hit us up for information before going there. Really, go get a travel guide. Before contacting us here for info about the country, please do the following:[/QUOTE]I got the same message. Why can't he just post it publicly?

[QUOTE=Westcoast1; 1229096]Not sure where to post this. This is from a newb (he has one post in a thread in the middle-east). I get about one a month like this in PM:

[I]I was thinking to go philipien 14th of January for 21 days maybe more, I would love to ask a few quiestion and if you would give me advice I will be very happy. I like to know which part philipien I should go for party? Do you know any hotel you can tell me or people you might know? It's would be great any info you could give me. Thank you[/I]

I think its in bad form for newbs (even long-time lurkers) to hit us up for information before going there. Really, go get a travel guide. Before contacting us here for info about the country, please do the following:

1. Take a trip there.

2. Post at least one full Field Report (include hotel review, chica review, food review).

This goes for any newb to the country. You need to give something to the thread first (a FR would be nice). THEN feel free to ask me where the laundromats are located near G-Point. Also, it is not possible to give specific answers to broad-based questions:

"Where is best place for party?" I don't know, as I don't attend parties. Party with locals? Party with expats?

"Where is best hotel?" Best hotel in what category: price, ambiance, location, pool, bar? My idea of a good hotel is different than yours.

"Where is best place to meet girls in Filipines?" EVERYWHERE, but its a stupid question that's not really answerable.

Other gents?[/QUOTE]Well I thought you showing of on here that is why I asked you, you fucking ashole did I ask where I can find girls, if old guy like you find girls I can find hunderds of them idiot, I asked same quiestion to another a few members they been very helpful not like you ashole.

Well I am new on here and I don't really know how is things work here, I asked a few ashole who been keep showing off and talking about everything include their wihte hair in their arse but when I asked a simple quiestion they been so surprise.

Well there was afew members who gave me info and I appricate that.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1229116]I got the same message. Why can't he just post it publicly?[/QUOTE]I got the same message too. These people are just plain lazy. All the info they require is on this Forum. If they can't be bothered to read the Forum, I can not be bothered to help them. They must demonstrate they have made an attempt to find the info on the Forum first, before I will help them. This latest poster should take his Mother along, she will know, LOL.

[QUOTE=Econo Tech; 1229084]Okay, let me put it this way. Is there any place where you must pay to get a job, even in restaurants?

In Philippines, yes, you must pay something like 5, 000 peso or more, to get 'short listed' and that is NOT BRIBE. It is payment levied by the employers to stop time-wasters, or so they say and no, the 5, 000 don't get returned whether you get selected or not.

So in essence, Filipinos put up with this kind of crap, and the banks, almost all, are privately owned. So they think they are doing the right thing paying to withdraw money.

So, smart people like us, keep cash (carefully hidden and disbursed) and minimse ATM withdrawal, (oh, not to forget that at more than a few ATMs, guys loiter around to whack you off. And it is more scary when the bank security is walking with the trigger finger ready.) of course. Use credit cards to pay for anything major. And when doing ATM withdrawal, withdraw max, whether needed or not.[/QUOTE]I agree that it pays usually to withdraw more than you need to lessen the per peso cost of the transaction. I've used a debit / Visa here for years, and actually prefer it to using my other cards since there's no bill at the end of the month. However, my bank reimburses me for all of the ATM transactions, so my use of the card for cash withdrawal is virtually free.

GE

Quite some time ago, when I was working in Washington DC, I ate fairly frequently at upmarket restaurants in the Georgetown area.

The wait staff and bus boys were not paid a salary. They made their money from tips from big payers. And some restaurants charged a fee to start work at the resto.

Is that any better or worse than paying to get a job in the Phils? But at least in the Phils they are paid a salary, plus tips, in a resto.

Maybe this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

G

[QUOTE=Econo Tech; 1229084]Okay, let me put it this way. Is there any place where you must pay to get a job, even in restaurants?

In Philippines, yes, you must pay something like 5, 000 peso or more, to get 'short listed' and that is NOT BRIBE. It is payment levied by the employers to stop time-wasters, or so they say and no, the 5, 000 don't get returned whether you get selected or not.[/QUOTE]Okay. But if I had 5,000 pesos I WOULDN'T NEED A FUCKING JOB!

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1229116]I got the same message. Why can't he just post it publicly?[/QUOTE]Is there a link or thread where we can point newbs? The reports of distinction maybe? Something that says, before asking general questions:

1. RTTF.

2. Visit.

3. Write a comprehensive FR (hotel, girls, food)

?

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1229096]Not sure where to post this. This is from a newb (he has one post in a thread in the middle-east). I get about one a month like this in PM.[/QUOTE]Stupid questions we must naturally ignore but, why but curious to why the rest bothers you?

Not arguing here since I have no direct opinion about this. I think I normally try to reply to a friendly request.

Some sort of idea that we should try to be generous and helpful, instead of focusing on people having to qualify and trade information for other information.

"What goes around comes around" or the idea of karma. Maybe I am a bit naive but I feel that I benefit from this attitude since people are very helpful in return, when that is needed.

Antipathy and cynicism is rarely rewarded in the long run IMHO.

Just my two cents.

All the best, Barba

[QUOTE=Westcoast1; 1229232]Is there a link or thread where we can point newbs? The reports of distinction maybe? Something that says, before asking general questions:

1. RTTF.

2. Visit.

3. Write a comprehensive FR (hotel, girls, food)

?[/QUOTE]That part of the problem with this forum Layout look how many topics and shit is in the threads. I get pm all the time asking about stuff. I also get pm telling me to keep fighting the trolls.

So just do another human a favor and give them help. If nothing else you get good karma.

It can get even worse. A nurse friend of mine had to PAY to get a VOLUNTEER job in a hospital! Reason? . Lots of job possibilities for Filipina nurses qverseas, but these require a nursing degree, PLUS actual nursing experience. Philippines graduates far more nurses than jobs available for them. Also, far more who will volunteer for free in order to get that coveted work experience. So, in many hospitals, they have to pay in order to work for free!

[QUOTE=Westcoast1; 1229096]I think its in bad form for newbs (even long-time lurkers) to hit us up for information before going there. Really, go get a travel guide. Before contacting us here for info about the country, please do the following:

1. Take a trip there.

2. Post at least one full Field Report (include hotel review, chica review, food review).

This goes for any newb to the country. You need to give something to the thread first (a FR would be nice). THEN feel free to ask me where the laundromats are located near G-Point. Also, it is not possible to give specific answers to broad-based questions:

"Where is best place for party?" I don't know, as I don't attend parties. Party with locals? Party with expats?

"Where is best hotel?" Best hotel in what category: price, ambiance, location, pool, bar? My idea of a good hotel is different than yours.

"Where is best place to meet girls in Filipines?" EVERYWHERE, but its a stupid question that's not really answerable.

Other gents?[/QUOTE]Great topic.

In the past I used to help out and provide long responses with very detailed info, but no more. Maybe one or two guys out of ten would bother to say 'thanks' or show even remotely that they appreciated the time I took to answer the questions and provide good up to date info. No more free rides, go RTFF.

One member in particular sent me many questions over a two week time frame before his trip and I replied to them as best I could. He would later bad mouth my advice because he could not pick up at certain spots where others has been successful in the past. It's not my problem or obligation to hold your hand and make sure you find someone with a pulse.

Also if a question has been asked many times before on the forum and I know the answer is just a few pages back I will not waste my time to reply with a link or directions to the answer, if the member can't be bothered to read back in the thread or use the search function then I can't be bothered to reply.

I don't believe any member has mastered the art of the Search option on the entire forum. This is an art form, I am absolutely clueless when it come to search options, I do not even consider it as an option. If some kind member could lay down some guidelines perhaps this will go someway to eleviating unnesessary questions.

Noddy: [url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3160-Cebu-Hotels&p=1210365&viewfull=1#post1210365[/url]

[QUOTE=David_33;1210365]I have personally answered this question at least twice and not that long ago. Please click "advanced search" button on upper right hand corner of the forum page. Then click "search single content type". In "search type" put "posts". In "keyword" write Marriott. Then in the "search in forums box" highlight "The Philippines". In "show results" put "reports". Click "search now".[/QUOTE]Thank you kindly David. Hopefully I will now maximise my ISG experience.

December 20, 2011.

Protect Yourself from Intrusive Laptop and Phone Searches at the USA Border.

EFF's New Guide Helps Travelers Defend Their Data Privacy.

San Francisco. Anytime you travel internationally, you risk a broad, invasive search of your laptop, phone, and other digital devices. Including the copying of your data and seizing of your property for an indefinite time. To help travelers protect themselves and their private information during the busy holiday travel period, the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) released a new report today with important guidance for safeguarding your personal data at the U. S border.

Thanks to protections enshrined in the USA Constitution, the government generally can't snoop through your laptop for no reason. But the federal government claims those privacy protections don't cover travelers at the USA border, allowing agents to take an electronic device, search through all the files, and keep it for further scrutiny. Without any suspicion of wrongdoing whatsoever. For business travelers, that could expose sensitive information like trade secrets, doctor-patient and attorney-client communications, and research and business strategies. For others, the data at risk includes personal health histories, financial records, and private messages and photos of family and friends. EFF's new report,"Defending Privacy at the USA Border: A Guide for Travelers Carrying Digital Devices," outlines potential ways to protect that private information, including minimizing the data you carry with you and employing encryption.

[url]https://www.eff.org/press/releases/protect-yourself-intrusive-laptop-and-phone-searches-us-border[/url]

For Defending Privacy at the USA Border: A Guide for Travelers Carrying Digital Devices:

[url]https://www.eff.org/wp/defending-privacy-us-border-guide-travelers-carrying-digital-devices[/url]

To take the border privacy quiz: [url]https://www.eff.org/pages/border-search-quiz[/url]

_______________________________________________

Medianews mailing list [email]Medianews@etskywarn.net[/email]

[url]http://lists.etskywarn.net/mailman/listinfo/medianews[/url]

One good thing about this newbie is that he has paid the annual fee to Jackson, enabling him to pm, right?

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1229116]I got the same message. Why can't he just post it publicly?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Marconista;1229448]One good thing about this newbie is that he has paid the annual fee to Jackson, enabling him to pm, right?[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Westcoast1;1229621]McDon, those are about the most descriptive reports I've read. Great work. Newbs please read McDon's reports as an example, and please make your first post a full Field Report (ala McDon) , rather than a question for the board members.[/QUOTE]In addition newbs, along with your FR, please feel free to post a pic or two: your girl, your hotel, or anything you found interesting that you might think the rest of us might be interested in.

This time in Tagaytay. Check it out at [url]http://www.globalnation...n.n-tagaytay[/url]

Hope I got the link right.

[QUOTE=Slippery; 1230171]This time in Tagaytay. Check it out at.

[url]http://www.globalnation.n.n-tagaytay[/url]

Hope I got the link right.[/QUOTE]From January 2009 to mid-June 2010, 204 contractors were killed in the war in Iraq. During the same period. 95 foreigners were killed while visiting the Philippines. Mongering and residing in the Philippines is not without risk. Each individual should carefully weigh the benefits of cheap sex against the cons of being murdered, robbed, beaten or extorted.

The Philippines' main attraction for foreigners is the wide availability of cheap sex with young women. Of course, this is offset by the filthy contaminated crime ridden environment, lack of human rights for foreigners, corruption and absence of public safety. Foreigners will continue to be murdered in ever increasing numbers because these crimes are rarely solved and they have no voice or clout in the country. If mongers want the discount priced sex badly enough they must accept that being targeted for extortion, robbery and murder is part and parcel of the deal.

Foreigners need to take responsibility of their own safety and stop looking at the Philippines as some kind of adult Disneyland. It's more like visiting a giant slum like District 9 in search of prostitutes. Everyone around you is a potential threat. They all want something from you and that includes any 'family' you happen to marry into. If things go bad your local family might just decide that a dead foreigner is worth more to them than one who cuts them off. Don't think even for a minute that being old, crippled, or crazy is going get you any mercy from them. In the end the only thing that matters to them is money.

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger;1230201]. <SNIP> . Foreigners need to take responsibility of their own safety and stop looking at the Philippines as some kind of adult Disneyland. It's more like visiting a giant slum like District 9 in search of prostitutes. .[/QUOTE]This is a gross exaggeration Chocha. Guys who stay in AC or in Manila city (Malate, Ermita, Binondo, Tondo and even parts of Pasay) might understand what you are saying, but for those of us who live in Ortigas Center or Makati or parts of Cebu and Davao, we would disagree.

Living in such an area (as I do) is like living in the middle of any large city in the world with very modern, built-up areas, and certainly NOT a giant slum. There are women of all variety still available. No need to go into a "slum" to seek prostitutes or any other woman here.

However, I agree wholeheartedly with your premise that the Philippines is NOT "some kind of adult Disneyland". Those who arrive with the idea that they are in Disneyland are doomed to all manner of likely disappointments.

I am picking up on a few things in the Manila thread and commenting here as they are more 'General' than they are 'Manila'.

Chocha Monger posted a link to an interesting short Philippines YouTube clip: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctuAxPr96qs[/url] About Constitutional Reform and Presidential Government (as it is here in the Philippines) versus a Parliamentary style government. It got me thinking about the connection between style of Government and corruption.

Transparency International (TI) has just released its 2011 Corruption Perception Index rankings of 183 countries. The Philippines ranks at 129, meaning that there are 128 countries perceived as less corrupt, and 54 as being more corrupt. That's just a little better than it has been in previous years. Perhaps NoyNoy's anti-corruption efforts are having an effect, albeit small?

Using the CIA World Fact Book website: [url]https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html[/url] I have looked at the types of Governments that run the so-called least corrupt countries. Of the 20 least corrupt 16 are democratic governments headed by a Prime Minister usually selected by the ruling party and confirmed by the parliament, or endorsed by a constitutional monarch. One in the top 20 has a President (Switzerland) but elected by the assembly and not by popular vote of the people. Two have Chancellors (Germany and Austria) elected by a federal assembly and one, Hong Kong, has a CEO selected by Beijing. None have leaders selected by vote of the people.

To save some of you looking up the reference the least corrupt countries per the TI listing are in order: New Zealand, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Singapore, Norway, Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, Canada, Luxemburg, Hong Kong, Iceland, Germany, Japan, Austria, Barbados, United Kingdom, Belgium and Ireland.

The first country listed with a President selected by people's choice is Chile (ranked 22) then the United States ranked 24).

In the Philippines, like the United States and other presidential governments elected by the people, it is money that selects the candidates that run for president and which buy or trade off the votes necessary to select the president. It is money that talks and not the man / woman best qualified to lead, chair and direct a country. And it is voters responding to issues that best affect them personally, and not necessarily best for their country. Am I being cynical here? It seems to me a parliamentary type of Government selects a leader that is better qualified to lead its country its own population by free Presidential vote.

I can also relate well to Gangles posting, again in the Manila forum under the heading of "Serious Corruption" where he says:

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1229815]Not long ago, a Bill was introduced into the US congress which would make the use of Aspartame illegal because of its known harmful effects. The industry, with deep pockets, unleashed a bunch of lobbyists, with equally deep pockets. Enough congressmen were bought off to make sure that the bill did not get to the floor of the House. That is, money crossed hands with the result that lives of people are put at risk, for increased profits of big business.

Now that is what I call corruption. But then thinking back to my time in the US, I realised that that is actually the way that the US congress is run. By big business. There are thousands of lobbyists working full time in and around the congress, manipulating the process and system of government.

Now that is serious corruption.

The Philippines is amateurish in comparison.

G[/QUOTE]KongKing

[QUOTE=Slippery; 1230171]This time in Tagaytay. Check it out at.

[url]http://www.globalnation.n.n-tagaytay[/url]

Hope I got the link right.[/QUOTE]This link did not work for me, is this the same story below?

[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45788414/ns/world_news/[/url]

CM, you sound like a bitter and sour man.

I have never felt personally endangered while I have been in the Phils, including in some squatter areas.

The only places where I have been nervous about my personal safety were in the Bowery in NY City, the Bronx, and some parts of SE Washington DC.

The only place that I have been held up at gunpoint and cleaned out of my possessions was in Washington DC, a couple of blocks from the White House, and one block from the Australian Embassy.

Don't be so afraid.

I hav spoken before about westerners living in fear. It looks like you are a classic case.

G.

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger; 1230201]From January 2009 to mid-June 2010, 204 contractors were killed in the war in Iraq. During the same period. 95 foreigners were killed while visiting the Philippines. Mongering and residing in the Philippines is not without risk. Each individual should carefully weigh the benefits of cheap sex against the cons of being murdered, robbed, beaten or extorted.

The Philippines' main attraction for foreigners is the wide availability of cheap sex with young women. Of course, this is offset by the filthy contaminated crime ridden environment, lack of human rights for foreigners, corruption and absence of public safety. Foreigners will continue to be murdered in ever increasing numbers because these crimes are rarely solved and they have no voice or clout in the country. If mongers want the discount priced sex badly enough they must accept that being targeted for extortion, robbery and murder is part and parcel of the deal.

Foreigners need to take responsibility of their own safety and stop looking at the Philippines as some kind of adult Disneyland. It's more like visiting a giant slum like District 9 in search of prostitutes. Everyone around you is a potential threat. They all want something from you and that includes any 'family' you happen to marry into. If things go bad your local family might just decide that a dead foreigner is worth more to them than one who cuts them off. Don't think even for a minute that being old, crippled, or crazy is going get you any mercy from them. In the end the only thing that matters to them is money.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Red Kilt;1230210]Living in such an area (as I do) is like living in the middle of any large city in the world with very modern, built-up areas, and certainly NOT a giant slum. There are women of all variety still available. No need to go into a "slum" to seek prostitutes or any other woman here.[/QUOTE]Too right RK. You read the dramatic nonsense spouted by the likes of CM and that weirdo who posts on the other thread and you begin to wonder if they are describing the same country that you and I have lived in for years. Then you remember that both are spouting from soapboxes constituted from piles of rotten hidden agendas and neither have much real 'on the ground' experience of the country they purport to describe and deride. Nobody would deny that this country has some big problems to address but what society doesn't and this includes so-called first world nations. I would feel safer walking the meanest street in Manila than any inner city ghetto road in the US and has Manila experienced the social unrest, riots and looting that affected large area of so called civilized London last summer?

The truth is that the majority of foreign ex-pats living here have quiet, uneventful lives spent in leafy, quiet, attractive sub-divisions or condo developments with friendly if inquisitive neighbors (the unofficial barangay police) and the only disturbance to their idyllically peaceful lives being the strident calls of the occasional balut seller. Is it any wonder that I go out looking for some excitement!

[QUOTE=Run Mann; 1230269]This link did not work for me, is this the same story below?

[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45788414/ns/world_news/[/url][/QUOTE]Shorter story, same murder. What the MSNBC story does not say is that the victim and his wife had not slept together for 3 years.

I live in a "leafy, gated community," as referred to by CS. My neighbors, most of them Filipinos, are solidly upper middle class, and aside from the odd break-in once every 3 or 4 years, there's no crime that I know of in my village I must live in a different country than the one CM has been describing. The fact is, I live a much better life here than I could afford in the US, and I've yet to spend one day of the eight years I've lived here cowering in fear. I travel routinely to those areas of Mindanao cited as places that Americans are advised to avoid by the US Department of State, and there too, I've been treated with gentiility, respect and genuine interest. I've yet to be extorted, threatened, scammed, cheated or held up, so the factors cited by CM-who sounds like he might never have actually visited this country-must be elusive, or at least must not apply to Mindanao or Manila where I go.

I'm hardly blind to reality. This is a third world country and it's got a long way to go on the road to development. Converesely, it's surely not the crime-ridden warren of corruption painted by CM.

I echo Red Kilt and CS here: most of the expats I know-and like them I know a lot of them-live quiet, uneventful lives and most are reasonably content. Like Gangles, the only place I've ever been mugged was in a developed country; in my case the middle of Paris in the middle of the day, on one of the nicest streets on the left bank.

Clearly, what we need is a more balanced, altogether more accurate picture of the country, and I'm starting to feel that the only ones capable of presenting an accurate portrayal of the reality of the Philippines are those who either live here or who have at least spent a great deal of time in country and have developed a perspective that's not limited to bars and clubs.

GE

[QUOTE=Gangles;1230396]CM, you sound like a bitter and sour man.[/QUOTE]Hey. The job of bitter / sour man is already taken by ME.

It's interesting that it is always the same handful of posters claiming that the Philippines is safe and free of corruption. They always make personal attacks against any poster with a dissenting opinion. The basis of their argument is always the same. If someone has a different viewpoint or experience of the country that poster must be bitter, sour, on an agenda, never visited the country, etc.

Perhaps, the media, law enforcement agencies, embassies, other expats and tourists are part of some dark conspiracy to create false information about foreigners being murdered, robbed and scammed. The reasoning of the clique is if it did not personally happen to them if must not be true. Those 95 foreigners killed in the Philippines between January 2009 and mid-June 2010 never existed. The thousands of Filipinos desperate for a chance to flee their country must be just be bitter sour people. After all, who in their right mind would want to run away from this leafy green tropical paradise where one awakes to the sweet twitter of birds and fresh cool air scented with the exotic fragrance of flowers?

Gaddafi claimed that his people loved him and it was only a few foreign terrorists creating minor disturbances in his country as Libya revolted all around him. It is no surprise that cliques of elitist mongers perceive the reality surrounding them very differently from the masses. In fact, it is to be expected. I guess the reality of foreigners in the Philippines who do not live in protected enclaves dining on fine French cheeses and quaffing 1945 Chateau Mouton-Rothschild Jeroboam really does not count.

I encourage travelers who will not be safely hidden in the 'leafy' Green Zone to research factual information on the politics, crime, corruption and treatment of foreign citizens. Also, take some time to go back over the posting history of those mongers claiming that the Philippines is a paradise. You will find numerous instances of them complaining about the people and the country. Yet, I'm the one who is bitter.

I think that between CM, Red Kilt, CS and I, the whole gamut of perceptions,"facts," biases and opinions has been well covered, so it's probably not necessary to endlessly protract the debate. From my side of the aisle, I'm not trying to portray this, or any other location in the world, as some sort of "paradise." It's a developing country, in many ways a failed state, and positive change-to the extent that it exists at all-is slow, incremental and often invisible. Conversely, it's not a particularly dangerous place for foreigners nor is it a difficult, perilous place to live. I don't doubt the "95 foreigners killed" statistic cited by CM, but I do wonder how many foreigners, during the same period, have been murdered in the United States, a world-leader in handgun deaths. My argument is simply that a more balanced perspective than that offered by CM would be more accurate. I would guess that most of the expatriates who live here are fully aware of the myriad hassles of day to day life; the petty scams, the pollution, the insane driving behavior, the ineptitude of government agencies, and yet have calculated that the benefits outweigh the cumulative annoyances. For some, the equation tilts unfavorably in the negative direction, people within this category are generally contemptuous of the country, and perpetually angry. I have no idea why they remain here or, if tourists, why they continue to return. Speaking strictly personally, at this stage of my life, I seek primarily tranquillity, and I doubt that I could long remain in a place that prompted a continual state of anger. To continue on a purely personal note, I have a nice life with which I'm reasonably content, and that's why I stay.

GE

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger; 1230512]It's interesting that it is always the same handful of posters claiming that the Philippines is safe and free of corruption. They always make personal attacks against any poster with a dissenting opinion. The basis of their argument is always the same. If someone has a different viewpoint or experience of the country that poster must be bitter, sour, on an agenda, never visited the country, etc.

Perhaps, the media, law enforcement agencies, embassies, other expats and tourists are part of some dark conspiracy to create false information about foreigners being murdered, robbed and scammed. The reasoning of the clique is if it did not personally happen to them if must not be true. Those 95 foreigners killed in the Philippines between January 2009 and mid-June 2010 never existed. The thousands of Filipinos desperate for a chance to flee their country must be just be bitter sour people. After all, who in their right mind would want to run away from this leafy green tropical paradise where one awakes to the sweet twitter of birds and fresh cool air scented with the exotic fragrance of flowers?

Gaddafi claimed that his people loved him and it was only a few foreign terrorists creating minor disturbances in his country as Libya revolted all around him. It is no surprise that cliques of elitist mongers perceive the reality surrounding them very differently from the masses. In fact, it is to be expected. I guess the reality of foreigners in the Philippines who do not live in protected enclaves dining on fine French cheeses and quaffing 1945 Chateau Mouton-Rothschild Jeroboam really does not count.

I encourage travelers who will not be safely hidden in the 'leafy' Green Zone to research factual information on the politics, crime, corruption and treatment of foreign citizens. Also, take some time to go back over the posting history of those mongers claiming that the Philippines is a paradise. You will find numerous instances of them complaining about the people and the country. Yet, I'm the one who is bitter.[/QUOTE]Guess I'm the compromise candidate. I don't live in Phils but for the last two years I've come for 4-5 month extended stays, living in pensions (in cities) or nipa huts (on islands). No "leafy Green zones", na. I have a bank account, always a free GF, and don't do the barstool scene. I've never felt threatened or intimidated. I see Phils getting better / smarter / cleaner every year and I'm considering spending more time here.

The media worldwide preaches "gloom and doom" to sell papers or attract viewers. Don't be sucked into a "life of fear" anywhere.

Just stay aware of where you are, who you are, and who you are with. Get off the barstool, out of the 5 star aircon hotel, and experience Phils for what it is, for better or worst.

I live in the rough part of town. My street has drug deals, guys drinking all day and gangsters (cribs here bloods are 1 km from my street) they shoot and stab each other. I feel safe I walk my street any time. When I tell people where I live they know the streets reputation. The reason we are safe is that so many eyes are watching some are enemy of the guy who would like to rob you. To me the only danger is people you know so if you are a asshole to those around you they may tell some one who will do something about it. As posted many times the wife was out 12am etc. She is the one in your house she can see your value dead. Some family will do honor killing so that you not find out about her lies.

I mean Jesus Fucking Christ. For Cripes sake, WE are sick of it.

Having a good time in the Philippines looking for we are.

Tuning into Public TV you old hands should do.

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger;1230512]I encourage travelers who will not be safely hidden in the 'leafy' Green Zone to research factual information on the politics, crime, corruption and treatment of foreign citizens. Also, take some time to go back over the posting history of those mongers claiming that the Philippines is a paradise. You will find numerous instances of them complaining about the people and the country. Yet, I'm the one who is bitter.[/QUOTE]Umm, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I am just curious. When was your last visit to the Philippines?

stockholm—a swedish court on tuesday sentenced a man to five years prison for a series of sex crimes against children including a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] in the philippines and possession of more than 500, 000 pornographic pictures featuring children.

the kristianstad district court, in southern sweden, found 45-year-old patrick johnsson guilty of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125][CodeWord125][/url] a young child, planning further child [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124][CodeWord124][/url], aggravated child pornography, sexually assaulting children, and making children pose for sexually explicit pictures.

johnsson, who according to the tt news agency is only the third person to ever be sentenced in sweden for sex crimes committed against children abroad, was arrested in february.

at the time, he was in possession of 514, 216 pornographic pictures of children and 10, 230 video films, including ones portraying sexual assaults and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124][CodeWord124][/url] on young children and even infants, and was found to have spread the material widely, according to the court documents.

among the pictures were a number documenting his own assaults on children, and the kristianstand court said that at least one case, involving a girl in the philippines aged four or five, should be considered [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url].

when he was arrested, johnsson had already purchased a new ticket to the philippines, and a chat conversation over the internet indicated he and an accomplice intended to sexually assault more children during that trip, according to the court documents.

the prosecutor in the case, maans bjoerklund, had demanded eight years behind bars for johnsson and told tt tuesday he was considering appealing the verdict.

helena karlen, who heads the swedish branch of the global anti-child prostitution network ecpat, meanwhile said she was pleased with the verdict and especially the message it sent.

'it is important that the public opens its eyes to these crimes and realises that assaults, even committed on the other side of the planet, can be prosecuted at home in sweden, ' she told tt.

[url]http://globalnation.inquirer.net/21745/man-jailed-in-sweden-for-child-[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]-in-philippines[/url]

if this guy actually did what he was accused of, in my opinion, he should be publically hanged.

8 years in jail. the actual sentence, is totally inappropriate to the severity of the crime.

g

[quote=chocha monger; 1230948]stockholm—a swedish court on tuesday sentenced a man to five years prison for a series of sex crimes against children including a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] in the philippines and possession of more than 500, 000 pornographic pictures featuring children.

the kristianstad district court, in southern sweden, found 45-year-old patrick johnsson guilty of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125][CodeWord125][/url] a young child, planning further child [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124][CodeWord124][/url], aggravated child pornography, sexually assaulting children, and making children pose for sexually explicit pictures.

johnsson, who according to the tt news agency is only the third person to ever be sentenced in sweden for sex crimes committed against children abroad, was arrested in february.

at the time, he was in possession of 514, 216 pornographic pictures of children and 10, 230 video films, including ones portraying sexual assaults and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124][CodeWord124][/url] on young children and even infants, and was found to have spread the material widely, according to the court documents.

among the pictures were a number documenting his own assaults on children, and the kristianstand court said that at least one case, involving a girl in the philippines aged four or five, should be considered [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url].

when he was arrested, johnsson had already purchased a new ticket to the philippines, and a chat conversation over the internet indicated he and an accomplice intended to sexually assault more children during that trip, according to the court documents.

the prosecutor in the case, maans bjoerklund, had demanded eight years behind bars for johnsson and told tt tuesday he was considering appealing the verdict.

helena karlen, who heads the swedish branch of the global anti-child prostitution network ecpat, meanwhile said she was pleased with the verdict and especially the message it sent.

'it is important that the public opens its eyes to these crimes and realises that assaults, even committed on the other side of the planet, can be prosecuted at home in sweden, ' she told tt.

[url]http://globalnation.inquirer.net/21745/man-jailed-in-sweden-for-child-[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]-in-philippines[/url][/quote]

I can kind of vouch for Frenzy3's comments about safety. When I went to visit him, I walked both to and from his house. I did not feel particularly threatened or afraid. But it really is in a pretty seedy part of town.

G.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1230562]I live in the rough part of town. My street has drug deals, guys drinking all day and gangsters (cribs here bloods are 1 km from my street) they shoot and stab each other. I feel safe I walk my street any time. When I tell people where I live they know the streets reputation. The reason we are safe is that so many eyes are watching some are enemy of the guy who would like to rob you. To me the only danger is people you know so if you are a asshole to those around you they may tell some one who will do something about it. As posted many times the wife was out 12am etc. She is the one in your house she can see your value dead. Some family will do honor killing so that you not find out about her lies.[/QUOTE]

Five years in jail. What a sick joke.

Some Duterte justice maybe?

Barba

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger;1230948]STOCKHOLM—A Swedish court on Tuesday sentenced a man to five years prison for a series of sex crimes against children[/QUOTE]He's lucky he's from Sweden and not the U.S......

[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1230487]I'm hardly blind to reality. This is a third world country and it's got a long way to go on the road to development. Converesely, it's surely not the crime-ridden warren of corruption painted by CM.

GE[/QUOTE]I was in the Philippines for my second trip in November so am not qualified to comment on much. However; from my point of view it seemed that Manila and Cebu were much cleaner than on my first trip at the same time last year. Who knows, perhaps I was just not as wide eyed on this trip. In Cebu I was stopped by the "lady smoking patrol" and was very respectfully pointed to an ashtray to use when I was finished my smoke. We had a good discussion about their role which was basically to make smokers aware not to put their butts on the street. At 06:00 the street sweepers were our and cleaning the streets before rush hour got started around Mango Square.

In Manila of course I kept my cigarettes in my pocket.

That being said I was visiting Aquino's grave in the cemetery on All Souls Day and interviewed on live radio about why a foreigner would come to that site. I was not foolish enough to make anything but complimentary comments about the family.

I have not taken in many to the typical monger sites as I have been an DIA tourist, but I have now been to Manila, Cebu, Bohol, Cagayan de Oro. I have never felt unsafe, but am also aware of where I am and my surroundings at all times. From my limited experience it's normally simply a matter of using some common sense and I intend to return again as soon as I can.

[QUOTE=David_33;1231104]He's lucky he's from Sweden and not the U.S.[/QUOTE]Wow, ain't that the truth! In the US, that guy would have gotten life.

I don't live in the Philippines, and don't consider myself to be as knowledgeable as many on these forums are about the country. But the times I have been there, I have not felt that my personal safety was any more at risk than traveling to anyplace in the US. I lived in South Korea from 2004 to 2010, and felt safe walking around many areas there as well. When I would talk to family and friends that had never ventured out of the US, they would ask me if I was scared living in such a dangerous place. I always tell those people to stop listening to the media, as they distort the truth to sell their product. For instance, I was living in South Korea in 1994 when North Korea's Kim Il Sung died. The media was reporting that his son, Kim Jong Il, would bring war to the peninsula. Now, they are saying the same thing about Kim Jong Un. I have been living in central US since 2010, and have heard so many reports of robberies, attacks and murders, that I want to go overseas again. I feel that anytime I travel, whether it is here in the US or overseas, I simply need to take precautions to protect myself, and be aware of my surroundings. Enjoy the Philippines and the many pleasures that are there!

HW

[QUOTE=Barba; 1231074]Five years in jail. What a sick joke.

Some Duterte justice maybe?

Barba[/QUOTE]Or you mean the kind of justice where sometimes, the wrong people get 'trial by media' and proven guilty before even being. Like the case in Cebu where the wrong couple was accused of murdering a kid? LOL

Heading to the phils on Jan 14th for 30 days. Having been caught up in work, I haven't much in the way of any planning. However, having been to AC two times, I would prefer some travel (south) in the rest of the country. I am not a beach person but a day or two in various spots wouldn't be hell. I would prefer to stay in 5-6 various places for 5 days or so before flying back to Manilla. I fly into Manilla, but would prefer to only stay there for 2/3 days.

If ye guys had a wish list for out of the way places to monger or chance freelancers, what cities, towns or beach resorts would you choose!

I. E.

(1) Cebu. 3 days.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

[QUOTE=Subaculture; 1231320]If ye guys had a wish list for out of the way places to monger or chance freelancers, what cities, towns or beach resorts would you choose!

I. E.

(1) Cebu. 3 days.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions![/QUOTE]Should be posted in the Travel Announcements Only thread.

[quote=econo tech;1231225]or you mean the kind of justice where sometimes, the wrong people get 'trial by media' and proven guilty before even being. like the case in cebu where the wrong couple was accused of murdering a kid? lol[/quote]no, i mean the kind of justice that hurts and sends a clear signal to the society. where society cares and protects the ones that deserves it. these five years in prison is a humiliation to the children, fathers and mothers.

according to news articles i read, both the swedish guys convicted in this mess has similar verdicts from the past. the younger one was even admitted for "treatment" (unfortunately not in the hells angels rehabilitation center for imprisoned ****s). the ones in this network that resided in usa got at least 20-30 years, while this insect got less than maximum (8 years). wtf!

it is bad enough when a scumbag like those molest a child, but to turn it into a media enterprise and take up orders for customized child [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] and torture pictures or movies, to make money for the next trip, is just revolting. we are not talking border line teens of 17 years and 364 days with a fake i'd, that is considered of limit on a more principal basis. infants and babies of just a few years age are the victims here. patrick johnsson had over 500 000 pictures and 10 000 movies, many made by himself. if i was allowed, i would beat him to death with a lead pipe, and then sleep as good as ever. and i do not give a rats ass if anyone consider me a barbaric savage. he consumed his rights to breathe.

let us leave this topic. it makes at least me to upset for my own good. sorry if i rant.

if you have the urge to comment or ***** about me hanging out his name here, suppress it! i do not care about your opinion if you think this scumbag deserves to be protected. rules are general but always applied in a specific case. protection of integrity or the right to treatment was long passed in this case.

i come to think of a well known scene.

marsellus: "what now? let me tell you what now. i'm going to call a couple of hard, pipe-hitting niggas to go to work on the homes here with a pair of pliers and a blow torch. [to zed] you hear me talking, hillbilly boy? i ain't through with you by a damn sight. i'm going to get medieval on your ass."

once again sorry if i spread negativity with these two posts. i should perhaps call someone instead but you pervs are my only true friends. lol.

over and out on this subject.

subaculture, did you read a little bit in the various threads? this is a very general question and the possible answers you are searching, are just a few mouse clicks away, waiting for you to find them. a comment on finding girls on the beaches of davao (the only ones i know anything about) is that this is a long shot. either they are there with family, a man or with friends. all categories are cock blockers. i think this observation can be considered general; hence not totally ot in the general info-thread. bring your own girlfriend to the beach (resort). for specific advice on beach resorts in davao, you will find them named in the davao threads and the philippines rod-section. good luck and do not hesitate to post specific questions after you did some reading and initial planning of your route.

barba

[QUOTE=Subaculture; 1231320]Heading to the phils on Jan 14th for 30 days. Having been caught up in work, I haven't much in the way of any planning. However, having been to AC two times, I would prefer some travel (south) in the rest of the country. I am not a beach person but a day or two in various spots wouldn't be hell. I would prefer to stay in 5-6 various places for 5 days or so before flying back to Manilla. I fly into Manilla, but would prefer to only stay there for 2/3 days.

If ye guys had a wish list for out of the way places to monger or chance freelancers, what cities, towns or beach resorts would you choose!

I. E.

(1) Cebu. 3 days.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions![/QUOTE]2 weeks stick to AC

Cebu needs a week and even then you have to stick to bars as the freelancers are busy this time of year.

[QUOTE=Subaculture; 1231320]Heading to the phils on Jan 14th for 30 days. Having been caught up in work, I haven't much in the way of any planning. However, having been to AC two times, I would prefer some travel (south) in the rest of the country. I am not a beach person but a day or two in various spots wouldn't be hell. I would prefer to stay in 5-6 various places for 5 days or so before flying back to Manilla. I fly into Manilla, but would prefer to only stay there for 2/3 days.

If ye guys had a wish list for out of the way places to monger or chance freelancers, what cities, towns or beach resorts would you choose!

I. E.

(1) Cebu. 3 days.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions![/QUOTE]As Frenzy3 stated stick to manila / ac. You don't have much time and you way over extending yourself. If you want to see the country then perhaps find a girl or two and take them around, a nice girlfriend / s experience. To see 5-6 cities in 2 weeks LOL, you will spend half of your time traveling (keep in mind bigger cities are on different islands so lots of flights) and struggling to find accommodation especially in the provinces unless you are happy to really rough it out. In manila I would do a week, I would split my time between Malate, Makati and QC. Then make my way to AC. Perhaps take in Boracay or another resort for the end depending on your budget. I would bring a girl or two from AC to my final destination. By the way if you are not into the beach I would seriously question what is it that you are trying to see or find in Phils? Unless you are into churches there is not much else to see in most of the smaller towns. Forget hunting for girls there if all you have is 2-3 days in each town.

Rethink you itinerary.

[QUOTE=Subaculture; 1231320][b]Heading to the phils on Jan 14th for 30 days. [/b]

[b]However, having been to AC two times, I would prefer some travel (south) in the rest of the country. [/b][/QUOTE]You guys who responded need to either reread Subacultures post or buy some reading glasses or both! :o

Personally, I would stay in Cebu a week and use it as a base. Decide which islands you want to hop. Most of the neighboring islands can be accessed in less then an hour on a plane or several hours by ferry. Consider Tacloban, Leyte; Tagbilaren, Bohol; Dumaguete or Bacolad Negros and various cities on Mindanao including Cagayan de Oro and Davao. Start working DIA as you will have a friend waiting for you in the locations you pick. If you find your honey ko, each of these cities has beach resorts that you can use on an overnight. Good luck and file a FR!

[QUOTE=Subaculture; 1231320]Heading to the phils on Jan 14th for 30 days.

If ye guys had a wish list for out of the way places to monger or chance freelancers, what cities, towns or beach resorts would you choose![/QUOTE]One problem with your plan will be your visa extention. You are granted a free 21 day tourist visa upon entry into the Philippines. Technically the 21 day visa starts on your first full day in the Philippines (day after arrival) so you get 22 days. You mentioned you will stay for 30 days and you will have to pay anywhere from 3000-4500p for a visa extention based on if you go to the immigration office in person or if you get a visa service to take care of the extention.

If you opt to go yourself expect one whole day waiting in lines but the pain will be over quickly. If you opt to have a visa service do your extention your passport can be in there hands for up to 2-3 days depending on when you drop it off. That means you have to stay in one place for that time period because you can't check into hotels or take flights without your passport.

You can choose to do nothing about the extention and pay the fine and visa extention fees when you leave the Philippines as others have done. Up to you, just something for you to think about.

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88; 1231788]One problem with your plan will be your visa extention. You are granted a free 21 day tourist visa upon entry into the Philippines. Technically the 21 day visa starts on your first full day in the Philippines (day after arrival) so you get 22 days. You mentioned you will stay for 30 days and you will have to pay anywhere from 3000-4500p for a visa extention based on if you go to the immigration office in person or if you get a visa service to take care of the extention.

If you opt to go yourself expect one whole day waiting in lines but the pain will be over quickly. If you opt to have a visa service do your extention your passport can be in there hands for up to 2-3 days depending on when you drop it off. That means you have to stay in one place for that time period because you can't check into hotels or take flights without your passport.[/QUOTE]I've always wondered about something. Since many of us know of our trip well in advance, and want to stay longer than 21 days, why not just skip the 21-day Visa-On-Arrival, and mail in a regular 3-month visa application to your nearest Philippine Embassy? You have to send your passport, but the cost is only $30USD. This makes more sense than extending the 21-day thing for a lot more money.

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1231796]I've always wondered about something. Since many of us know of our trip well in advance, and want to stay longer than 21 days, why not just skip the 21-day Visa-On-Arrival, and mail in a regular 3-month visa application to your nearest Philippine Embassy? You have to send your passport, but the cost is only $30USD. This makes more sense than extending the 21-day thing for a lot more money.[/QUOTE]Interesting option but do you really want to trust the Philippine Embassy with your passport? Half the time they can't even be bothered to answer the phone so I'm sure there is a better than 50-50 chance it will take longer than a month to get your passport back and if they lose it what then?

I just checked the extention stamps in my passport and the cost was 3030P to the immigration for a 38 day extention and that did not include the fee to the visa service. All in it cost me 4200p. Next time I will go directly to the immigration office and stand in line for a few hours and save some pesos.

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88;1231879]All in it cost me 4200p.[/QUOTE]Should you be in Davao they do (or at least did) it for 3500 in the little office next to immigration, opposite Victoria mall.

The few times I did this, I left my number and went for shopping in Victoria, and then they sent me a text when it was done.

Barba

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger;1230512]It's interesting that it is always the same handful of posters claiming that the Philippines is safe and free of corruption. They always make personal attacks against any poster with a dissenting opinion. The basis of their argument is always the same. If someone has a different viewpoint or experience of the country that poster must be bitter, sour, on an agenda, never visited the country, etc.[/QUOTE]I agree with most of the points you have made in the rest of your transcript, but which posts have you been reading where members are claiming that the Philippines is free of corruption? Did you throw this extra bit in just to add weight to your argument?

Thanks for all the good advice. I think I will base myself in Cebu for the 38 days (I have extended my holiday) and take some four (3/4 nights) trips to neighboring Islands. Sounds like a plan??

I will get the visa extension at Manilla Airport upon arrival or in Dumaguete (across from the market next to Vintage Inn) because people says its quick and painless. Cost is 3030php, am I right?

Now the penny drops. Smart people are often dyslectic so we all read it as 14 to 30 Jan.

Shit yeah if your staying 30 days do Cebu and island hop from here, you can find the right girl here in Cebu and have a great time. Subaculture Ping me before you are in Cebu I can try help you find the right girl.

1 year multiple entry visa:

It's what I use.

Get it at the Philippine embassy or nearest consulate-

You need your passport, passport photos (2?)

& a form that you can printout online (I'll try to post website later if I can find it).

I think you need a copy of your upcoming airline ticket or itinerary.

You give them $90. (? I think) LEAVE THEM YOUR PASSPORT & COME PICK IT UP WITH THE VISA IN A FEW DAYS.

I never had a problem with them losing my passport.

The visa takes up a whole page in your passport (like the one from Indonesia).

It's good for multiple entries for a period of one year, each entry good for up to 59 days.

Sorry if my details are not accurate, because some one else has been doing it for me as I live 150 miles from the consulate (I give them some kind of notarized form. Also online, I think.) Anyone who knows more about this or has a better mind for detail than old Don, please feel free to correct me or elaborate.

I do know it works. I've used it for years. The one year, multiple-entry. 59 day maximum stay (unless extended in PI) information is accurate.

Happy New Year to All!

[QUOTE=Barba; 1231426]No, I mean the kind of justice that hurts and sends a clear signal to the society. Where society cares and protects the ones that deserves it. These five years in prison is a humiliation to the children, fathers and mothers...[/QUOTE]AMEN. I'll hand you the lead pipe.

I wrote a response to #6268 by Stroker Ace and the recent discussion about cab sames / cultures, in the Cebu thread but it is just to unrelated to Cebu to stay there. Was considering "Other Areas" (as in the area of philosophical speculations) but moved it here to "General Info".

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88; 1232902]-Lurker who has never visited.

-Someone who plans to visit one day (maybe just a fantasy) *

-Someone who spent a few days in the Philippines some years ago.

-Someone who spent a week total in the Philippines.

-Someone who spends a week a year in the Philippines.

-Someone who visits a few times a year but does not stay long.

-Someone who spends 200+ days a year in the Philippines.

-Those who live in the Philippines.[/QUOTE]And then you add the fact that all of these can be anything from a cynical alcoholic or a reborn teenager wannabe (with the associated pathetic ego that needs to try to impress everyone) , to hard core religious fanatics or nihilists, and you can be 100% sure that what one man call culture, or even "the truth", is another mans perception of a culturally conditioned scam that ought to be eradicated. One must not forget that all the guys that was not in the country, actually did something else, that might make them equally or more well equipped to see the true nature of a specific behavior. Humans search flocks or groups (even on ISG) and this need to belong to something (anything will most often do) , can also make us blind for our own contextual interpretation.

I am amazed by how grown up men I meet all over the world want to measure the penis size with the question "is it your first time here". Are people really that stressed over themselves? I often say "yes" only to let this poor man strike his ego in explaining all the "truths" about this place, that embraced his sad person in all it's dented pride. Since pride is a fantasy monster that I want to fight, iIt cost me nothing but some suppressed primitive impulses. And this poor man will feel a momentary relief from his self whipping. So why not?

For some guys it is actually the first time in some place (it normally always is at some point) , and what the competition oriented co-humans seem to forget is that these guys actually where somewhere else, where they also lived and observed. They where not hibernating in some stimulus free coma.

I have friends that lived 20+ years in the Philippines and they are still ignorant, and I have friends that visit for the first time, that sees fundamental psychosocial traits for exactly what they are. Most often we interpret the world as we have to and as we where trained to do and not as it is in a true objective physiological sense. Google "thin slicing" for an interesting concept on patterns, non intellectual decisions / interpretation and "gut feeling".

Many opinions and advice we provide, are most often ourselves reselling decisions to ourselves, over and over again. One guy left and never wish to go back, and he will sell the image that supports this decision. Another guy accepted the compromise it means to live in the Philippines, and from him you will most likely hear anther more sympathetic "truth".

I see a lot of different good strategies on how to spend resources to maximize the total gain, both in terms of transportation and in terms of impressing females so they will be willing to receive our seed. Some even come from people that did not visit the Philippines in person. The good thing is that, per definition, we can never agree and the ISG discussion will never ever terminate on these topics. Everlasting and almost free entertainment.

Thank you Red Kilt for the titles. Reading makes us smarter.

The onion analogy actually won the Nobel prize in literature once (anyone remembers Wislawa Szymborska?). Aren't all societies layered by the way? Isn't in fact all of universe layers that oscillate, and then we just labels things differently as they approach what we consider local maximas? A cultural trait is labeled a scam as the moral standpoint of the viewer changes. Did anyone follow that thought? INSERT SMILEY.

Barba, who strongly fears he will get exactly zero responses on his post once again. LOL

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1231980]Shit yeah if your staying 30 days do Cebu and island hop from here, you can find the right girl here in Cebu and have a great time. Subaculture Ping me before you are in Cebu I can try help you find the right girl.[/QUOTE]Will ping you once I am there and buy you a beer or two . Even in your local bar.

[QUOTE=Don Roberts; 1232177]1 year multiple entry visa:

It's what I use.

Get it at the Philippine embassy or nearest consulate-

You need your passport, passport photos (2?)

& a form that you can printout online (I'll try to post website later if I can find it).

I think you need a copy of your upcoming airline ticket or itinerary.

You give them $90. (? I think) LEAVE THEM YOUR PASSPORT & COME PICK IT UP WITH THE VISA IN A FEW DAYS.

I never had a problem with them losing my passport.

The visa takes up a whole page in your passport (like the one from Indonesia).

It's good for multiple entries for a period of one year, each entry good for up to 59 days.

Sorry if my details are not accurate, because some one else has been doing it for me as I live 150 miles from the consulate (I give them some kind of notarized form. Also online, I think.) Anyone who knows more about this or has a better mind for detail than old Don, please feel free to correct me or elaborate.

I do know it works. I've used it for years. The one year, multiple-entry. 59 day maximum stay (unless extended in PI) information is accurate.

Happy New Year to All![/QUOTE]Requirements vary between embassies. Bangkok wants to see a return ticket out of the Philippines. London often wants to see an original bank statement and does not ask for air tickets.

I'm planning a 80 day trip to Phils and contemplating flying Cathay Pacific. Lon-HK-Cebu, with the return flight in 80 days.

1 Will they ask for an earlier onward ticket / return flight if (a) I rely on the 21 day Visa Free period or (be) I go to the embassy and get a 59 day visa?

I've previously travelled to BKK and then flown on to Phils with Cebu Pacific. (CP in BKK always ask to see an onward ticket though so far I've been able to get away with it by quoting a fictitious onward flight number with a rival airline. Immigration in the Phils at the main airports never ask to see the return ticket.)

2 Does it make sense to try and get the 59 day visa in London? It costs just GBP22 (1500P) less than the cost of a 39 day initial extension in the Phils, but will they require sight of a return ticket within that period (The embassy blurb says its a required piece of info but is it really required in practice?)

Any feedback from those with experience of this problem, especially on this route, would be much appreciated.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1231883]Should you be in Davao they do (or at least did) it for 3500 in the little office next to immigration, opposite Victoria mall.

The few times I did this, I left my number and went for shopping in Victoria, and then they sent me a text when it was done.

Barba[/QUOTE]I had the same deal. Last time in Davao I took the taxi to the immigration office. I get to the gate and guard tells me to come back in an hour, it was lunch time. I started to walk to Chowking *to kill an hour when I walked past that travel store. They only charged me 500 peso over the visa cost. They texed me a few hours later with my new visa. Great service, saved me a few hours waiting in the immigration office.

[QUOTE=GregLondon; 1233587]I'm planning a 80 day trip to Phils and contemplating flying Cathay Pacific. Lon-HK-Cebu, with the return flight in 80 days.

1 Will they ask for an earlier onward ticket / return flight if (a) I rely on the 21 day Visa Free period or (be) I go to the embassy and get a 59 day visa?

I've previously travelled to BKK and then flown on to Phils with Cebu Pacific. (CP in BKK always ask to see an onward ticket though so far I've been able to get away with it by quoting a fictitious onward flight number with a rival airline. Immigration in the Phils at the main airports never ask to see the return ticket.)

2 Does it make sense to try and get the 59 day visa in London? It costs just GBP22 (1500P) less than the cost of a 39 day initial extension in the Phils, but will they require sight of a return ticket within that period (The embassy blurb says its a required piece of info but is it really required in practice?)

Any feedback from those with experience of this problem, especially on this route, would be much appreciated.[/QUOTE]I have flown into the Philippines with a return ticket dated up to 90days and had no problem. I think it helps to book the round trip with the same airline. That action negates the airlines responsibility to ensure you will not be an immigration risk. From my experience Cathay Pacific is stricter with return tickets than PAL or Cebu Pacific. Always book your departure flight before arrival in the Philippines. If there is an issue immigration officials could potentially March you over to PAL or whatever airline and force you to buy a departure ticket at full fare prices.

As for the immigration process when you land, sometimes I have been asked when will be my departure date sometimes not. IMO it depends if you get a female or male immigration officer. In my experience females tend to ask more questions while the guys just stamp and hand back. If they notice on your arrival form that your stay will be longer than 21 days the officer will inform you that you need to obtain a visa extention. My lastest stay was 50 days and the female immigration officer just mentioned to me I will need an extention but never pressed the matter after flipping through my passport and seeing all the other extention stamps.

I have never went through the process to get the visa before I travelled so I can't provide any info there. If you decide to get the visa at the embassy before you travel, post your experience, curious to see what happend.

Regarding onward ticket requirements, assuming you have sufficient credit, you can buy an expensive fully refundable ticket, print out the confirm, and then turn the ticket back in. Most likely you can do all that before the bill comes due. That will work for the situation where you have to get the visa in advance, for sure. It will work 99% for if you don't need a visa but just "proof" of onward ticketing, because the immigration authorities aren't linked into the airlines' databases. The other 1% is a gamble but, again assuming you have sufficient credit, if they do insist you could [b]maybe, probably[/b] Buy a similar refundable ticket on arrival. I say [i]probably[/i] Because if immigration won't let you in, the airline is responsible for getting your sorry ass back to where you came from.

I always travel with:

1) a credit card with a high limit (recommend AMEX Blue for Business, no fees, and you can make up a fictitious business, or at least I did)

2) bank / brokerage statements showing I have some funds.

3) some traveler's checks which AMEX will give you free if you have Blue; I never use them and you can turn them back in.

Was reading through a Taiwanese newsapaper this morning that described how "foreigners" were coming to review the upcoming elections.

The fact that they were all from Europe escaped the papers notice, instead they were all described as " foreigners"

Got to thingking that this is a term used by the less developed Asian countries in general.

In Hong Kong and Singapore, because there are a much higher ratio of non HK or Singaporeans in their midst, I guess that they are seen as less different.

But In Taiwan, and certainly the Philippines, and Thailand, everyone who is not Asian is a "foreigner".

Malaysia tends to report people by race or region which is better than the single all purpose "foreigner" term.

In Australia, and Europe which are both developed and quite multi-cultured no.one is referred to a being "foreign.

In US which is less multi cultured in some places, again no-one is referred to as a foreigner, given that there has been a history of people from different lands populating the place.

But in some Asian countries, that have had a long history of peoples from other races living amongst the locals, those of a different skin colour or culture are still, ignorantly to my mind, classed in general as " foreigners".

Ok, morning thought over. Back to work.

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88; 1233735]I have flown into the Philippines with a return ticket dated up to 90days and had no problem. I think it helps to book the round trip with the same airline. That action negates the airlines responsibility to ensure you will not be an immigration risk. From my experience Cathay Pacific is stricter with return tickets than PAL or Cebu Pacific. Always book your departure flight before arrival in the Philippines. If there is an issue immigration officials could potentially March you over to PAL or whatever airline and force you to buy a departure ticket at full fare prices.

As for the immigration process when you land, sometimes I have been asked when will be my departure date sometimes not. IMO it depends if you get a female or male immigration officer. In my experience females tend to ask more questions while the guys just stamp and hand back. If they notice on your arrival form that your stay will be longer than 21 days the officer will inform you that you need to obtain a visa extention. My lastest stay was 50 days and the female immigration officer just mentioned to me I will need an extention but never pressed the matter after flipping through my passport and seeing all the other extention stamps.

I have never went through the process to get the visa before I travelled so I can't provide any info there. If you decide to get the visa at the embassy before you travel, post your experience, curious to see what happend.[/QUOTE]I went to the London embassy yesterday. They can issue a single entry 59 day vias for GBP22. They also do a 1 year multi entry (good fro 59 days on each entry for GBP65 but they will only issue to that to people who have previously obtained a single entry visa at that Embassy (unbelievably illogical rule).

They confirmed that technically a return / onward ticket was required within the validity of your visa ie 21 days if no visa and 59 days if you have a visa. They do not check that you have got the ticket at the London embassy and said that generally the airlines in London do not check either (though they might do so on a "random" basis.). They said that of course most people just go there and get an extension whilst there as I have done before.

This puts people wanting to visit Phils for more than 59 days and obey the rules in a Catch 22. Theoetically you need evidence of an onward / return ticket though in practice you don't except that from some destinations at least (such as Bangkok) where the airline will insist on some sort of evidence before letting you fly in which case you have several options (1) try and blag your way through with a fake online booked flight number (2) buy a cheap one way out ticket (3) buy an expensive but hopefully fully refundable ticket.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan; 1234113]and Europe which are both developed and quite multi-cultured no. One is referred to a being "foreign.

Ok, morning thought over. Back to work.[/QUOTE]Are you sure? If you know the nationality, (french, german etc) , then the referral might be to the appropriate nationality, if you are certain he belongs to the EU you can also quote "european", but we also use "eastern european" to define people from the ex red-block and having joined hte EU (Hungarian, Romanian, etc)

I think that in cases as such (supervising or witnessing elections) the observers might be from many different countries (even within the same continent) , so foreigners is appropraite and I do not think it is a s ort of verbal or subtle "racism"

I do remember, some 30 years ago having gone to a small island just outside Gothenburg (probably considered of some strategic and militry value, do not ask me why) it iwas full of signs "no aliens", meaning no foreigners vs. Scandinavian (most likely). The word "alien" was sounding weird to me, maybe as not being english mother tongue I might give a different value to words.

[QUOTE=Bob Bowie;1233628]I had the same deal. Last time in Davao I took the taxi to the immigration office. I get to the gate and guard tells me to come back in an hour, it was lunch time. I started to walk to Chowking *to kill an hour when I walked past that travel store. They only charged me 500 peso over the visa cost. They texted me a few hours later with my new visa. Great service, saved me a few hours waiting in the immigration office.[/QUOTE]I took advice from several "old pro" ex-pats in Cebu, who have a travel agency do their visa extensions.

When you think of the expense and the hassle of traveling to Mandaue (They moved the immigration office out of downtown Cebu.) , waiting in line, going to window A, waiting for an hour, then going to window B, then going upstairs, then returning downstairs to wait for window C, etc, it's well worth the 500 pesos to sit at the bar and have several beers while it's being renewed for you.

[QUOTE=GregLondon; 1234205]I went to the London embassy yesterday. They can issue a single entry 59 day vias for GBP22. They also do a 1 year multi entry (good fro 59 days on each entry for GBP65 but they will only issue to that to people who have previously obtained a single entry visa at that Embassy (unbelievably illogical rule).

They confirmed that technically a return / onward ticket was required within the validity of your visa ie 21 days if no visa and 59 days if you have a visa. They do not check that you have got the ticket at the London embassy and said that generally the airlines in London do not check either (though they might do so on a "random" basis.). They said that of course most people just go there and get an extension whilst there as I have done before.

This puts people wanting to visit Phils for more than 59 days and obey the rules in a Catch 22. Theoetically you need evidence of an onward / return ticket though in practice you don't except that from some destinations at least (such as Bangkok) where the airline will insist on some sort of evidence before letting you fly in which case you have several options (1) try and blag your way through with a fake online booked flight number (2) buy a cheap one way out ticket (3) buy an expensive but hopefully fully refundable ticket.[/QUOTE]The Manila-BKK and Clark-BKK flights are now the focus of increased scrutiny since several guys were accused of sex trafficking girls out of AC. That applies to inbound and outbound travel.

Thanks for the updated info.

I can confirm StrokerAce's experience. I had a round trip ticket booked on PAL with the return dated more than 90 days out. I also had a 59 day visa that I obtained before the trip. So I am pretty sure they will not bat an eye if the visa is present when they see a trip that long. Maybe not 100% guaranteed someone else will not have an issue. One way to address the length of the RT itinerary is to pay more for a fully rebookable ticket. Or at least make sure your ticket is rebookable for a fee. There is a PAL office a block or two from Robinson Mall in Ermita; they were helpful to me.

I can also confirm GregLondon's experience with only being able to get the single entry visa on first application and I would now speculate that this seems to be policy in all Phil embassies and consulates. In my case, it was the Los Angeles consulate.

[QUOTE=Finrod;1234873]I can also confirm GregLondon's experience with only being able to get the single entry visa on first application and I would now speculate that this seems to be policy in all Phil embassies and consulates. In my case, it was the Los Angeles consulate.[/QUOTE]One of my visiting consultants from Australia was able to get the 59-day visa [B]for his first trip[/B] because he had a letter showing his contract that gave his assignment in the Philippines for 30 working days and a support letter from me too.

They still asked him a lot of questions in the Philippines consulate in Australia (not Canberra) but eventually granted it.

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88; 1234487]The Manila-BKK and Clark-BKK flights are now the focus of increased scrutiny since several guys were accused of sex trafficking girls out of AC. That applies to inbound and outbound travel.

Thanks for the updated info.[/QUOTE]I suspect the other factor is that though theoretically your return ticket should be within the period of your visa / visa free allowance, if you have later return ticket the airlines will be relatively relaxed as in the theoretical event that immigration ion Phils did cause you a hassle the airline could simply change the date of your return flight. Of course the typical cost of a long haul retrun flight on a scheduled airline is often only slightly higher than a one way. In BKK however most people are travelling on budget airlines and thus often buying one ways.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt;1234951]They still asked him a lot of questions in the Philippines consulate in Australia (not Canberra) but eventually granted it.[/QUOTE]Did they make him promise not to stay there and spend his money for more than 59 days?

I find immigration authorities profiling of people shallow at best. Random questions with no clear pattern. Questions that can't possibly lead them to any conclusions abut why I have stamps from all over the world in the passport. Stupid people with a badge many times. The cream of monkeys in uniform you find in Venezuela."Mental capacity of a 3 year old gorilla? Ok you are hired!"

They are just one of these obstacles that we need to pass. We play the theater for some minutes and give them what they want. A bit like dating a European (or any) egocentric financially non desperate girl. Attention, smiles and flattery in the right portions and you get your 59 days visa to her panties. Just a few weeks ago I saw a younger handsome stud fail where Barba the old fox showed the correct balance of hunger for her body and interest in "her intellect". Just one hour later I had my tongue tickling her young clitoris and rose scented ass. And we are scheduled to meet in just a couple of weeks again. To even suggest money would be a sure way to fail massively in this case. Also girls are hungry for confirmation and for having that little ego massaged. I might sound cynical but I am not the least.

For anyone with a decent hourly salary I think the extension from inside, using an intermediate, is the most cost efficient way. 3500 PHP is less than one night in a good hotel and two nights in a middle class hotel.

As for Europeans and the concept of "foreigners". We do not say it nowadays but we sure as hell think it! :-D.

All the best from Barba.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=SlrKW7fh_Bo[/url] (absolutely worth to really listen to the whole if you do invest the minutes to watch this)

[QUOTE=Bionicman; 1234334]I think that in cases as such (supervising or witnessing elections) the observers might be from many different countries (even within the same continent) , so foreigners is appropraite and I do not think it is a s ort of verbal or subtle "racism"

[/QUOTE]Anyone not Chinese (in the Taiwan context) is foreign.

Anyone not Filipino is foreign.

Anyone not Thai is foreign.

It generally is a form of subtle racism by exclusion. But its ok its been that way for 100's of years. Glad tho that HK and Singapore with more multi cultural locals are more enlightened.

I saw this video and found it provides an interesting perspective on life in Manila. Enjoy!

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_Ht_19N8Uw[/url]

Just some potentially useful on the phone because info for newbies:

It is essential to get a local SIM card for your phone in the Phils (or buy a cheap local phone if you have a Iphone etc that you don't want stolen)

The largest phone co is SMART (with sister co Talk N text) This has good coverage all over Phils but tends to be alittle more expensive.

The up and coming rival now in Second place is SUN Good coverage in big cities but not so great in some of the provinces. Cheap intra network calling deals so popular with young city girls.

The 3rd co is GLOBE with sister Co TM, Similar good coverage to SMART and sometimes a less conjested network.

If you go with Smart or Globe you will get all the benefits but a somewhat cheaper costs by going with their sister because TNT or TM.

If you have a dual sim or multiple phones you may wish to get to know the Prefixes applying to the different network. Intra network calls / texts are much cheaper than inter network. Many girls will no have multiple SIMS for this reason. Almost everyone in the Phils will be able to tell you what network a number is on but hereis a crib sheet.

Prefixes for globe / tm.

0905.

0906.

0915.

0916.

0917.

0925.

0926.

0927.

0935 new prefix no.

0936 new prefix no.

0937 new prefix no.

0996 new prefix no.

0997 new prefix no.

Prefixes for smart / tnt.

0907.

0908.

0909.

0910.

0912.

0918.

0919.

0920.

0921.

0928.

0929.

0930 (Available also in Red Mobile)

0938 (Available also in Red Mobile)

0939 (Available also in Red Mobile)

0989 (New Release prefix no. From smart)

0999 (New Release prefix no. From smart)

0946 (New Release prefix no. From TNT)

0947 (New Release prefix no. From Smart)

0948 (New Release prefix no. From TNT)

0949 (New Release prefix no. From TNT)

Prefixes no. For Sun Cellular.

0922.

0923.

0932.

0933.

0942 new prefix no.

0943 new prefix no.

Unknown No.

0979 – Unidentified mobile network company.

GL

[QUOTE=GregLondon; 1238891]Just some potentially useful on the phone because info for newbies:

It is GL[/QUOTE]Back in the day (the old old days LOL) there were two prefixes. 0919 for Smart and 0907 for Globe.

Of course, that was when PLDT fixed line installation took up to a year to install. And as can be seen, they lost the plot and smart and globe took all their business.

You can take the girl out of the Philippines but can't take the etcetc.

Arranged to meet a cute 22 year old Filipina in Taipei last night. We had met and bonked previously so I knew it was going to be worthwhile but wheras previously we had met near my office, (when she had taken the bus) this time she only had time for me to go near her work place.

I ask her where she is and where is the nearest MRT subway train station. She doesn't know.

I suggest she asks her friends. Error. There were 3 replies to that question all with different station choices on basically three different subway lines.

Finally we narrow it down to a choice of two subway stations that sounded approx correct.

Every ten minutes after that I get the " where are you " texts. I figured I should reply in similar Filipino style " on the way LOL".

So then I'm in the taxi with a driver who can only speak Mandarin, and constantly getting the "where are you " texts. Suggested that as I hadn't been there before I really didn't know. This was met with a " ok " reply.

Anyways somewhere in the middle of some industrial city I find her. And find her fruit packing work and dormitory is near a few motels that were very similar to Sogo. A good if rushed time was had, said girl madly in love with me, and will be good for a few more bonks. One day though I will wake up and ask " is it really worth the effort.".

[QUOTE=FreebieFan; 1234113]Was reading through a Taiwanese newsapaper this morning that described how "foreigners" were coming to review the upcoming elections.

The fact that they were all from Europe escaped the papers notice, instead they were all described as " foreigners"

Got to thingking that this is a term used by the less developed Asian countries in general.

[b]In Hong Kong and Singapore, because there are a much higher ratio of non HK or Singaporeans in their midst, I guess that they are seen as less different. [/b]

But In Taiwan, and certainly the Philippines, and Thailand, everyone who is not Asian is a "foreigner".

Malaysia tends to report people by race or region which is better than the single all purpose "foreigner" term.

In Australia, and Europe which are both developed and quite multi-cultured no. One is referred to a being "foreign.

In US which is less multi cultured in some places, again no-one is referred to as a foreigner, given that there has been a history of people from different lands populating the place.

[b]But in some Asian countries, that have had a long history of peoples from other races living amongst the locals, those of a different skin colour or culture are still, ignorantly to my mind, classed in general as " foreigners". [/b]

Ok, morning thought over. Back to work.[/QUOTE]

Re: Your morning thought.

Your 2 statements above (highlighted in bold) are almost mutually contradicting.

In HK and S'pore, where there's been a long history of peoples from other races (usually caucasian, historically) living amongst the locals (asian) , themselves of different races, those who are not of those races making up the locals, are 'foreigners'. There's nothing derogatory about the term. The western world gets so uptight about being politically correct that even referring to someone as being 'foreign' is perceived as derogatory? Come on.

I am 2nd generation Singaporean Chinese. I shan't speak for Hong Kongers, but IMHO in S'pore, anyone who doesn't have a pink NRIC or a red passport to me in my mind, is 'foreign'. That includes the mainland Chinese living and working in Singapore. But that's just me. In practice, in a social setting, I would prefer to refer to someone by their nationality / where they are from, rather than as 'a foreigner' or being 'foreign', of course. Thats only because it would be crass / obtuse to introduce anyone in a social setting, to be 'foreign' or a 'foreigner'.

Example, at a party that could be anywhere in the world: "Greg, let me introduce Tom, an American. Tom, this is Greg. He is from London."

If I were in Singapore and introducing Tom or Greg to a Singaporean Malay, Ahmad, in the exact same way for example, Ahmad would naturally assume, in his mind, that Greg and Tom and both foreigners.

We have mix breed Eurasians in our Parliament in Singapore. They are local and are MPs. We have CEOs in many private institutions in Singapore who are foreigners. All facts. Nothing derogatory implied at all.

My morning thought. Back to work.

[QUOTE=Raverboy; 1239005]western world gets so uptight about being politically correct that even referring to someone as being 'foreign' is perceived as derogatory? Come on.

My morning thought. Back to work.[/QUOTE]I've lived in 11 countries and have seen on a daily basis how this is. The papers in Malaysia refers to thefts invariably as being conducted by " foreigners".

I've been introduced as " here's our new boss, hes a foreigner" and I could carry on and on and on. Maybe in Singapore you have less of this (which was my point ). And maybe you haven't had 30 plus of being an expatriate and seeing endless refernces to "foreigners". If you have then we can talk.

Now that almost all Phil banks have started to charge 150-200P fixed fee for an ATM withdrawal fromm a foreign card (remmeber thats about half a days wage for the average Philipino) and foreighn banks have upped their FX charges on ATM withdrawals to 2-3% for typical banks you can easily lose 5% in total which really adds up if you are staying longish term in the phils and relying on foreign ATMS.

I would be interested in other people's tips but I think I have a strategy for eliminating this cost at least fro those based in the UK.

1 There are a couple of UK banks which to my knowledge waive international ATM withdrawals. Santander through its Zero Account and the little known London based banking start up Metro Bank. If you chhoose one of these accounts you can eliminate the 2-3% charges in the UK. In the Phils most banks now charge a 150-200P fixed ATM fee on foreign withdrawals and the maximumn withdrwal is often just 10k to 20k PHP. However if you go to one of the Citibank ATM machines (Ayala in Cebu and I guess also in Manila) they don't charge the 200P ATM withdrawal fee. Therefore if you have a Santander zero or a Metro (UK) account you can take out as much as the sytem will alow penalty free (the Exchange rate used by visa and mastercard is the commercial rate with a very mall spread.

If you want to withdraw money widely in the Phils you can then deposit a stash of this money in a local bank such as BDO or Metro and use their ATMS domesticlaly with no fee.

[QUOTE=GregLondon;1239495]I would be interested in other people's tips but I think I have a strategy for eliminating this cost at least fro those based in the UK.[/QUOTE]I use Caxton FX Cards ([url]https://www.caxtonfxcard.com/index.asp[/url]). You load them online, have very competitive exchange rates and charge no extra commission or ATM charges. They come in 3 flavours, Global, Euro and Dollar. The Global card is the one to use in The Philippines. I always use it at HSBC as their withdrawal limits are higher and HSBC do not try to levy an ATM transaction fee. They are a very good product and I very seldom have cause to use my Debit or Credit Cards anymore whilst outside UK.

As far as I am aware, they are only available in Britain. Don't think that the US has a similar product.

[QUOTE=Cunning Stunt; 1239655]I use Caxton FX Cards (

[url]https://www.caxtonfxcard.com/index.asp[/url]

). You load them online, have very competitive exchange rates and charge no extra commission or ATM charges. They come in 3 flavours, Global, Euro and Dollar. The Global card is the one to use in The Philippines. I always use it at HSBC as their withdrawal limits are higher and HSBC do not try to levy an ATM transaction fee. They are a very good product and I very seldom have cause to use my Debit or Credit Cards anymore whilst outside UK.

As far as I am aware, they are only available in Britain. Don't think that the US has a similar product.[/QUOTE]I carry the Amex pre paid card. Excellent exchange rates as you would expect and no fx transaction fees or extra commisions, but it offers only one free ATM withdrawal per month, after the free one they charge $2 per ATM use. BDO ATM networks accept the card in the PI. Max withdrawal is 50,000p per day in PI. It is a safety net.

[QUOTE=WhatsUrName; 1235461]I saw this video and found it provides an interesting perspective on life in Manila. Enjoy!

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_Ht_19N8Uw[/url][/QUOTE]That video would have been interesting if they would have included up the skirt shots of the young filipinas getting on and off the bus.

Instead of Trike Patrol it could be Bus Patrol.

[QUOTE=GregLondon;1238891]The largest phone co is SMART (with sister co Talk N text) This has good coverage all over Phils but tends to be alittle more expensive.[/quote]Talk N Text is not a sister company, but a brand name of Smart Communications.

[quote]The up and coming rival now in Second place is SUN Good coverage in big cities but not so great in some of the provinces. Cheap intra network calling deals so popular with young city girls.[/quote]Smart Communications is a wholly owned subsidiary of Philippine Long Distance Telephone, better known as PLDT. Sun Cellular is a brand owned by Digitel. In March 2011 PLDT bought a 51% controlling interest in Digitel. That move means PLDT owns or controls Smart, SUN and PLDT brands. Calls or texts from a Smart user to a Sun user (or vice-versa) are treated as two seperate networks and as a result fees are higher than intra-system calls and texts. PLDT also owns TV5.

[quote]The 3rd co is GLOBE with sister Co TM, Similar good coverage to SMART and sometimes a less conjested network.[/quote]TM is not a sister company of Globe, but a brand name of Globe Telecom.

[quote]Intra network calls / texts are much cheaper than inter network. Many girls will no have multiple SIMS for this reason. [snip][/quote]I would guesstimate that indeed some girls have the newer dual SIM capable phones, but it's still under 50% from my experience and observations. Many girls still use older single SIM Nokia hand me down cell phones or China phone knockoffs. I have found that many girls that have dual SIM capable phones will have both SUN and Smart to avail of super promo unlimited text offers on different days from each provider. Also it can be as simple as her auntie uses Smart and most of her friends use Sun.

Some girls will make a face when you tell them you are using Globe. Alot of the girls do not use Globe as it's seen as a more expensive provider. When you send a text from a Globe SIM card it's more expensive for the girl to reply if she uses another provider. Sometimes when there is no reply, a girl could be using an unlimited 24 text promo for a fixed price. The promo is only valid intra-network such as Sun-Sun, Smart-Smart or Globe-Globe. It's fairly common to get a reply text from some strange number and the girl will explain she went to borrow a cell phone (insert family member or neighbors name here) from someone close to her who uses your provider.

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88; 1240000]Talk N Text is not a sister company, but a brand name of Smart Communications.

Smart Communications is a wholly owned subsidiary of Philippine Long Distance Telephone, better known as PLDT. Sun Cellular is a brand owned by Digitel. In March 2011 PLDT bought a 51% controlling interest in Digitel. That move means PLDT owns or controls Smart, SUN and PLDT brands. Calls or texts from a Smart user to a Sun user (or vice-versa) are treated as two seperate networks and as a result fees are higher than intra-system calls and texts. PLDT also owns TV5.

TM is not a sister company of Globe, but a brand name of Globe Telecom.

I would guesstimate that indeed some girls have the newer dual SIM capable phones, but it's still under 50% from my experience and observations. Many girls still use older single SIM Nokia hand me down cell phones or China phone knockoffs. I have found that many girls that have dual SIM capable phones will have both SUN and Smart to avail of super promo unlimited text offers on different days from each provider. Also it can be as simple as her auntie uses Smart and most of her friends use Sun.

Some girls will make a face when you tell them you are using Globe. Alot of the girls do not use Globe as it's seen as a more expensive provider. When you send a text from a Globe SIM card it's more expensive for the girl to reply if she uses another provider. Sometimes when there is no reply, a girl could be using an unlimited 24 text promo for a fixed price. The promo is only valid intra-network such as Sun-Sun, Smart-Smart or Globe-Globe. It's fairly common to get a reply text from some strange number and the girl will explain she went to borrow a cell phone (insert family member or neighbors name here) from someone close to her who uses your provider.[/QUOTE]Useful clarification from SA. The key point is that almost all of the girls wil be using one or other promo deal whereby they have unlimited intranetwork texting. Unless they have opted for the more expensive all network deals this means that texts outside their network cost a min of 1 or 2 P per text and soon eat up load given that most girls will probably make 100plus texts a day.

[QUOTE=Cunning Stunt; 1239655]I use Caxton FX Cards (

[url]https://www.caxtonfxcard.com/index.asp[/url]

). You load them online, have very competitive exchange rates and charge no extra commission or ATM charges. They come in 3 flavours, Global, Euro and Dollar. The Global card is the one to use in The Philippines. I always use it at HSBC as their withdrawal limits are higher and HSBC do not try to levy an ATM transaction fee. They are a very good product and I very seldom have cause to use my Debit or Credit Cards anymore whilst outside UK.

As far as I am aware, they are only available in Britain. Don't think that the US has a similar product.[/QUOTE]Looks like an interesting product for Dollar or Euros CS but I'm not convinced the Global one is such a good idea. They are making their money on the FX spread. That's 2. 75% for the global one and an unspecified spread on USD or Euro where you take the rate offered on upload. On Santander Zero and Metro you would save this 2. 75% (of the 2. 75% 1% gets passed on to visa / mastercard, I've not figured whether you escape that part with Santander or Metro). The US banking system is relatively primative so it may be more difficult to get such deals.

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88;1240000]It's fairly common to get a reply text from some strange number and the girl will explain she went to borrow a cell phone (insert family member or neighbors name here) from someone close to her who uses your provider.[/QUOTE]What is fairly common as well is that most girls have more than one sim card (either swapping sim cards to check messages or carry more than one phone) and of course, they 'forget' to tell you that.

I don't mind, but when I see more than one sim of the same network, it means she is two timing or three timing.

Well, never had anything serious with girls of that 'caliber' but. When a 'aunty' or 'friend' or 'family member' lends her a phone to reply, sometimes accept it, mostly increase your 'scam guard' level. LOL

[QUOTE=Econo Tech; 1240020]What is fairly common as well is that most girls have more than one sim card (either swapping sim cards to check messages or carry more than one phone) and of course, they 'forget' to tell you that.

I don't mind, but when I see more than one sim of the same network, it means she is two timing or three timing.[/QUOTE]I am not sure what you mean by "two timing" or "3-timing". Are you suggesting that she shouldn't be able to chat to 2 or 5 or 10 other guys, but it is OK for you to have a wide variety of numbers in your directory.

Texting is the number 1 pastime here so they will use whatever they can to maximise their costs and access.

What makes me laugh is how they will text me from a different SIM that is unknown to me and then they get antzy when I ask "who is this please"?

The usual "Oh you forget me already" comment follows when I don't recognise the number. How TF am I supposed to know hehe? They get a bit sheepish when I challenge them on it.

Some of them live in a strange mind world.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt;1240052]I am not sure what you mean by "two timing" or "3-timing". Are you suggesting that she shouldn't be able to chat to 2 or 5 or 10 other guys, but it is OK for you to have a wide variety of numbers in your directory.[/QUOTE]Well, me, having dipped my head deep in Phil, and having waded in till my chest level, I don't get stressed when that happens to me. Heck, one of the girl shacking up with me, sent me a text from her 'other' Sim card, asking if we can meet up, when she was lying next to me. And having screwed me and hadn't even cleaned up her drips. Oh, well, it keeps me entertained though. Haha.

My advice was for those 'newbies' and those who are 'in LOVE'. Not for me to fret over it. I take the multi-sim thing as one of the many quirks of dealing with pinays. (oh, my current gf told me that the word Pinay doesn't exist. It had been just coined as a female of 'pinoy'.)

[QUOTE]The usual "Oh you forget me already" comment follows when I don't recognise the number. How TF am I supposed to know hehe? They get a bit sheepish when I challenge them on it.[/QUOTE]Oh, that happens when the girls put your name differently under different sim cards, and then get you mixed up wih somebody else LOL or the new SIM doesn't have your contact, but the phone has your text minus the name.

Of course, keeps the fun going though.

I just spent a fairly dissapointing 10 days in Manila and Cebu. Productive photo-recon work was done on a new hotel in Cebu near Ayala Center, and I will post that when I get home.

I would have done better had I worked on the ladies online harder in the last week, but I was actually working, and working in the PI as well, and so the time managing PI contacts suffered.

I did get good results sending msgs to girls that were "online now" in Tagged. I managed to insult some truly "good" girls, and others were clearly semi and not-so-semi pro. One encounter with a girl who looked nice in the pics was like: Me: Well if I like you I will want to bring you back to my hotel. Her: Ah well thats ok, but if there is going to be sex, I need some help with my studies. Me: Hmm I see, and how much help do you need? Her: I need 1, 500 for my yada yada. Me: well I was thinking more like 500+ taxi money, but if you can provide special service (anal sex and or come back again) , I suppose I could help that much. Her: (well she did not go for that.) haha oh well! Too mercenary for me anyway.

Note to self (A note to Myself that I share with you). After observing other Western men in the territory, I resolve to:
- Get my weight back under 180lbs.
- Don't be too tall. If I were too tall, I would court E European girls.
- Wear a shirt and trousers, and shoes, a jacket sometimes in the evening. Avoid looking like a pensoner.
- Walk upright, back straight, head erect, eyes bright, mouth closed for Gods sake. Affecting a slightly bemused look on my face. More like Rodger Moore and less like Gandalf.
- Maintain an appearance that I am confident and enjoying myself.
- Keep to a moderate pace, not shuffling, and not rushing about.
- Try not to sweat so much.

[QUOTE=Econo Tech;1240320]Heck, one of the girl shacking up with me, sent me a text from her 'other' Sim card, asking if we can meet up, when she was lying next to me. And having screwed me and hadn't even cleaned up her drips. Oh, well, it keeps me entertained though. Haha.[/QUOTE]Hahaha cracking me up here. Welcome to FILIPINES!

Let me know if there's a better place to post this. I'm hoping there maybe some knowledgable members here who can shed some light on this. My situation is as follows: I've started two small businesses in PH with pinays and so far have not been ripped-off. To clarify I should say I've made two personal loans to my two partners and have no legal ownership in the businesses which is the way I required it. But our signed loan agreement specifies a specific business that provides enough return for both of us to make good coin and assure she has enough cash-flow to make payments back to me or reinvest my profit as required. I recently had a payment coming from one of my partners via WU for $1350 and she was only able to send $450 because of restrictions WU has on funds entering and leaving the State I reside. If I send more than $450 I have to provide passport and fill out a pile of paperwork (must have to do with the drug cartels and money laundering). She sent the balance owed to my business bank account here and I paid $15 to receive it (and the bank gets $40 for sending out international funds). I would be happy to set up an account in PH since my partners could make direct deposits and it should be less expensive all around so long as foreigners don't end up having to pay expensive monthly banking fees for the privilege of a savings account when not residing in PH. Before I realized how expensive my bank xfer fees were I was planning to stop using WU and report my gain as income as part of my USA based business. Now I'm thinking I can stay under the radar and let my profit accumulate in a PH bank and use those funds for hotel and food etc when I visit PH and when eventually retire there. Any such thing as a free savings account in PH? I have emailed BDO Unibank with questions about fees and whether they offer online banking. Any and all helpful comments are welcome.

While on the topic of SIm cards and mobiles I thought I'd share a couple of iPhone4 tips.

When I was with one lady I received a txt while I was in the bathroom. Consequently the phone clinks onto the screen pops the full text of the message and the callers name. Fortunately the lady was asleep but it did et me thinking and looking through the iPhone options.

Now, when I am with a lady or at work I want to manage the risk of people seeing the messages: I change the following options:

For general security.

I'll assume everyone has at least a Unlock PIN code on their screen.

Also, put a PIN code on your SIM in the event it is lost or stolen.

For pinay security.

Settings Sounds Set "Text Tone" to None (means there won't be an audio notification of a new message. Answer at a time that suits you.

Settings Notifications Messages

Alert Style. Set to None, means you have to go into Messages to see messages.

Show Preview. Set to Off, so that the message doesn't appear on the screen when unlocked.

View in Lock Screen. Set to Off, so that no details will appear on the screen when the phone is locked.

You might like to also set these for "calls" as well. Consider what Pinay1 will say when she sees that you had missed calls from "Pinay2-swallows","Pinay3-great tits" and two missed calls from "Pinay8-ms anal"

Just my experience.

AJ

[QUOTE=Jambo; 1242237]. .

SNIP.

. After observing other Western men in the territory, I resolve to:

- Don't be too tall. If I were too tall, I would court E European girls.

- Walk upright, back straight, head erect, eyes bright, mouth closed for Gods sake. Affecting a slightly bemused look on my face. More like Rodger Moore and less like Gandalf. .[/QUOTE]A few interesting observations Jambo (and obviously written with tongue planted firmly in cheek)

As someone who is 188cm, I find it difficult to follow your suggestion to both walk upright but not be too tall.

I find the height thing to be an advantage when interracting on DIA.

It gives me an opportunity to see if she has a makulit (naughty) streak.

When a woman says "You are soo tall; me I am only 5ft (or whatever)" I can trot out the corny line "Oh well it's OK but we are the same height when we are lying down"

Usually I get the "hehehe you are naughty guy" response which gets the texting onto a new level.

Of course, if there is any adverse reaction to my naughty suggestion, the chat is greatly shortened.

[QUOTE=Jambo;1242237]- Don't be too tall. If I were too tall, I would court E European girls.[/QUOTE]I am 6'3" (190cm) no pina has ever said I am too tall. I still get rejected by korean fuckers but those girls are not worth the time.

I still find it strange all these guys coming to cebu just to met internet girls then complain they did not score, learn a big lesson gay men are most of the DIA contacts, they ask you to come here and say BS so that you will send money, so if you visit Cebu for less than 1 month stick to the bars.

Stop using internet it now the biggest scam, next time you come here only use the net in the internet cafe see how many times a guy sits down next to you and logs into dia etc you may even find her is you chat mate, I take it you love chatting sex to boys.

[QUOTE=Jambo; 1242237]Note to self (A note to Myself that I share with you). After observing other Western men in the territory, I resolve to:

- Get my weight back under 180lbs.

- Wear a shirt and trousers, and shoes, a jacket sometimes in the evening. Avoid looking like a pensoner.[/QUOTE]A while back I got to visit St. Maarten. There's a nude beach (Orient Beach). One might conjer up images of bathing beauties. But the crowded beach was filled with a mix of clothed and nude folk. There was not a single naked person worth looking at. See the picture below (that's a US congressman, vacationing in the caribbean). The naked people on the beach were all 50+, and as you can guess, overweight. Several dudes in their 60's were playing naked 2 vs 2 volleyball. In the same vein, previously I posted about walking thru Ayala mall in Cebu. On the second floor are two coffee shops right next to each other (I think one is Bo's) , and within the two shops there was a gathering of similar older white gents (maybe a dozen between the two shops) , some with their pina gf, all 60+, all overweight. They were having breakfast / lunch, chatting each other, or their gf. They also dressed like the guy in the pic below: shorts, long t-shirts or hawaiian beach shirts (not a single tucked shirt) , and flipflops. I have a lifelong resolve to look:

[QUOTE=Jambo; 1242237]- More like Roger Moore and less like Gandalf.[/QUOTE]

Opinion, fact or just outrageous exagerration? I had three of these Internet gals in my bed within six hours of meeting. And they all were female. This was in a two week period. I met two others that didn't work out, but that was me cutting them loose, not the other way around. Maybe the Frenzy is trying to keep all the good ones for himself?

And how do you know the K girls aren't worth it if you've never scored with them?

[QUOTE=Frenzy3; 1242357]I am 6'3" (190cm) no pina has ever said I am too tall. I still get rejected by korean fuckers but those girls are not worth the time.

I still find it strange all these guys coming to cebu just to met internet girls then complain they did not score, learn a big lesson gay men are most of the DIA contacts, they ask you to come here and say BS so that you will send money, so if you visit Cebu for less than 1 month stick to the bars.

Stop using internet it now the biggest scam, next time you come here only use the net in the internet cafe see how many times a guy sits down next to you and logs into dia etc you may even find her is you chat mate, I take it you love chatting sex to boys.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Red Kilt;1242327]When a woman says "You are soo tall; me I am only 5ft (or whatever)" I can trot out the corny line "Oh well it's OK but we are the same height when we are lying down"[/QUOTE]And you also get to put her to the test: "Would you like to date a tall boy? Or perhaps you could not handle his big toy?"

I have noticed that this line will both take her one step closer to action in her mind, and make her understand that she is swimming is a sea filled of female fish and that whilst you might play the dating game for amusement and her imaginary shame reduction, the reality is that she needs to prove herself worthy of lifting your kilt, and not only the other way around as we have been mislead to believe for so many years living in the west. I treat the ladies like ladies and that includes that they need to know their place amongst all available options. I do not mean arrogance but rather a sense of gender equality in the dating game.

I do not want to come across as I am lecturing all the old foxes here, but IMHO I think the biggest turn on for a woman is to see a man that is happy with himself and that are not going for the panties in the first two minutes, Hawaii shirt or not. If you signal that you "know your value", she will want a piece of that cake. I am talking "normal" girls now and not P4P girls that do their selection on different parameters. Sometimes we men can be extremely single minded and believe we must thrust forward to the bed time moment. We are drooling and dripping in our shorts, and confuse the fact that we do not give a shit about the fore play with that fact that it is a deal breaker for any girl that is looking for more than just fast cash. We "impress" and push, when we in fact know that the best sales technique is to go slow and take one step back after every two steps forward. Let her get used to the new position in her head. Trust is familiarity, even when it comes to the idea of having a 100 kilo reject pumping her teenage pussy for hours. Two step forward and then one step back, gents. Impressive clothes might make us feel more self confident and kick up our shares during the initial seconds of talking to the babe, but after that we are naked and need to relay on our mental performance during the rest of the pick up.

Easy does it, not the shorts or the weight.

Barba

[QUOTE=Frenzy3; 1242357]. .

Stop using internet it now the biggest scam, next time you come here only use the net in the internet cafe see how many times a guy sits down next to you and logs into dia etc you may even find her is you chat mate, I take it you love chatting sex to boys.[/QUOTE]You are much too broad-brushed in your condemnation of the internet Frenzy.

I agree it CAN be used to scam; I agree that you MIGHT end up chatting to a boy who wants to be a girl; I also know that many girls say things in chat about what they will do and they will not follow up with when they meet in person.

However, speaking personally and on behalf of several close friends who live here, we have had amazing success rates using chat sites (whether free or not) in meeting a wide variety of women.

The internet has pitfalls sure, but so do bars and barfines and freelance meetings etc. If a guy has half a brain and uses fairly simple sieving or filtering techniques then he greatly reduces the likelihood of being scammed.

All options to meet women have their own particular foibles. Frenzy warns about one potential internet pitfall but that is not enough to make anyone abandon the internet entirely as a means of fishing.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1242430]You are much too broad-brushed in your condemnation of the internet Frenzy.

I agree it CAN be used to scam; I agree that you MIGHT end up chatting to a boy who wants to be a girl; I also know that many girls say things in chat about what they will do and they will not follow up with when they meet in person.

However, speaking personally and on behalf of several close friends who live here, we have had amazing success rates using chat sites (whether free or not) in meeting a wide variety of women.

The internet has pitfalls sure, but so do bars and barfines and freelance meetings etc. If a guy has half a brain and uses fairly simple sieving or filtering techniques then he greatly reduces the likelihood of being scammed.

All options to meet women have their own particular foibles. Frenzy warns about one potential internet pitfall but that is not enough to make anyone abandon the internet entirely as a means of fishing.[/QUOTE]That is exactly my point it works for those who spend time here, not the guys who visit short time, it just there is a increase of guys coming to Cebu posting that the place suxs, they do not visit bars and just get messed around with lady boys and girls just wanting cash. I know you and more experienced guys are doing ok, and I do not expect any one to follow my advice, but hope the guys who do visit here and bomb out relise it not the place but their expectations from the lies they get from the scammers on the dating sites.

Hey I like a bit of free entertainment, but it going to far when guys fly here only to find out 80% of the girls do not exist, and then they missed out on the bars

[QUOTE=Frenzy3;1242438]That is exactly my point it works for those who spend time here, not the guys who visit short time, it just there is a increase of guys coming to Cebu posting that the place suxs, they do not visit bars and just get messed around with lady boys and girls just wanting cash.[/QUOTE]I think it has less to do with long or short-term residents, and probably more to do with the average punter who comes here with the absurd notion that young women will fall at their flip-flopped feet. I'm surely not an expert on Cebu-a place to which I go only twice or so a year-but it can't be that much different than Davao, and most of the guys I see wandering around lost and bewildered here couldn't attract iron filings with a magnet. Have these guys abjured mirrors forever? Frenzy is right about having unrealistic expectations; to with, walking around in unpressed shorts, wrinkled tee shirts and flip flops is not a great recipe for success. Convincing yourself that something magical happened during the plane ride and you are now god's gift to the female gender is not only delusional, but pathetic. Clean up. Develop something more clever than "hey baby" as an opening line, and you might find that success is just around the corner.

GE

[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1242443]I think it has less to do with long or short-term residents, and probably more to do with the average punter who comes here with the absurd notion that young women will fall at their flip-flopped feet. Have these guys abjured mirrors forever? Frenzy is right about having unrealistic expectations; to with, walking around in unpressed shorts, wrinkled tee shirts and flip flops is not a great recipe for success. Clean up. Develop something more clever than "hey baby" as an opening line, and you might find that success is just around the corner.

GE[/QUOTE]Could not have said it better myself.

Will respectfully disagree with Frenzy and possibly RK here just a bit, regarding the expat regular and the 2-week visiting warrior. Of the dozen or so white kano I saw in the coffee shops on the second floor (having coffee, chatting together, reading the paper) , the handful of other kano walking the mall at 11:30am, and the three kano I saw sitting in the hallway at the indoor / outdoor restaurant just inside the entrance, I'd say most or all are expats, not weekend warriors. I saw the same group of guys in those upstairs coffee shops more than one day in my one-week visit; hence I'd say they are regulars. With the exception of myself, all white foreigner in Ayala were 60+, all were overweight, all were wearing flip-flops, all were wearing shorts (oh! Those milk-white, vericose-veined legs!) , and only one had tucked his shirt tucked in. Remember Ron Howard movie,"Cocoon", with Wilford Brimley heading to the swimming pool in shorts, untucked hawaiian shirt, and flipflops? Ya, that's who was in those coffee shops. Its a given that at least half those guys are local expats. Nothing says,"I'm-going-to-ignore-everything-good-my-mama-taught-me-and-dress-poorly-here-like-I-would-never-dress-at-home-and-disrespect-your-culture" like flip-flops away from the beach. Well, possibly the shirt not tucked in to hide the beer belly. So, what is it among us, that makes us the ones not to clean up? Why can't we wear sandals (not flipflops)? Why is it we can't seem to tuck our shirts in? Why is it we don't seem to own any long pants (blue jeans would be fine)? Frenzy's right: we shoot ourselves in the foot.

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1242503]Why is it we can't seem to tuck our shirts in?[/QUOTE]Because if one is somewhat overweight, it looks better to leave the shirt out.

[QUOTE=David_33;1242507]Because if one is somewhat overweight, it looks better to leave the shirt out.[/QUOTE]Hahaha. Stay indoors.

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1242503]Why is it we can't seem to tuck our shirts in?[/QUOTE]This whole debate about clothing and appearance is actually quite interesting.

Historically, the Spanish required all of the indios (or locals) to leave their shirts out so as to identify themselves.

The aristocracy tucked their shirts in, which, incidentally, most of us do when we are back home in Australia, USA, UK or wherever.

A girl once told me that she knew I was a foreigner because my shirt was tucked into my trousers. The locals notice it.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3; 1242438]That is exactly my point it works for those who spend time here, not the guys who visit short time, it just there is a increase of guys coming to Cebu posting that the place suxs, they do not visit bars and just get messed around with lady boys and girls just wanting cash. I know you and more experienced guys are doing ok, and I do not expect any one to follow my advice, but hope the guys who do visit here and bomb out relise it not the place but their expectations from the lies they get from the scammers on the dating sites.

Hey I like a bit of free entertainment, but it going to far when guys fly here only to find out 80% of the girls do not exist, and then they missed out on the bars[/QUOTE]No argument from me Frenzy over your points made above.

I think we agree on the basic points. You and I just express ourselves in a different way

[QUOTE=Aussie Jo; 1242317]You might like to also set these for "calls" as well. Consider what Pinay1 will say when she sees that you had missed calls from "Pinay2-swallows","Pinay3-great tits" and two missed calls from "Pinay8-ms anal"

Just my experience.

AJ[/QUOTE]That reminds me of a friend, who has in his Phil phone, names like "Joey Preg","Janny Joey Preg Sis","Lila Joey Preg Sis","Lyn Joey Preg sister".

Seems that he got one girl pregnant, and then ended up screwing the other 3 sisters too, with the approval of the pregnant sister. And he was trying to remember who is who LOL

Incredible! This forum covers some amazing and arcane subject matter but whether or not to tuck has to be a subliminal first.

I never tuck in the tropics but always tuck in the west. Weird. I've never given much thought about it before but I guess in a tropical country it is cooler (climatically not temperamentally) to leave ones shirt outside ones trousers, and in The Philippines it is the done thing so one is following the accepted mores of the local populace. It adds a little more security as well as the back trousers pocket and wallet are covered.

I always think it looks a little bit anal when I see a foreigner with his shirt (and especially a t-shirt) tightly tucked into his trousers particularly if he is dressed in shorts. But maybe that is just laid back, little old me.

[QUOTE=Cunning Stunt; 1242679]Incredible! This forum covers some amazing and arcane subject matter but whether or not to tuck has to be a subliminal first.

I never tuck in the tropics but always tuck in the west. Weird. I've never given much thought about it before but I guess in a tropical country it is cooler (climatically not temperamentally) to leave ones shirt outside ones trousers, and in The Philippines it is the done thing so one is following the accepted mores of the local populace. It adds a little more security as well as the back trousers pocket and wallet are covered.

I always think it looks a little bit anal when I see a foreigner with his shirt (and especially a t-shirt) tightly tucked into his trousers particularly if he is dressed in shorts. But maybe that is just laid back, little old me.[/QUOTE]I agree with you, it's a new low for the forum.

Anybody that comes to Philippines and can't get laid has bigger problems than his f*cking shirt being tucked in!

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1242664]This whole debate about clothing and appearance is actually quite interesting.

Historically, the Spanish required all of the indios (or locals) to leave their shirts out so as to identify themselves.

The aristocracy tucked their shirts in, which, incidentally, most of us do when we are back home in Australia, USA, UK or wherever.

A girl once told me that she knew I was a foreigner because my shirt was tucked into my trousers. The locals notice it.[/QUOTE]This is a debate that will just go on and on and on and on. I have seen plenty of smelly slobs across the world. Wherever I am I am always freshly showered and shaved. For health reasons I walk the malls. That's what I'm doing is walking. I'm not looking for poontang nor do I have the delusional thoughts that I'm going to pick up some 19 year old student while doing my health walking. By the time those lazy girls are out of bed, I'm already back home from walking.

If I'm going to the market down the street then its shorts, flip flops, shirt out and baseball hat. If the gf and I are going to a nice lunch, dinner or party, I know how to dress. I'm a "suit" here in the USA and dress appropriately at least 4 days a week so I like dressing down when I can. Perhaps the distinguishing factor is no matter where I am at, is I am always freshly showered and shaved and smell good no matter how many times that may be required in a day. My clothes are always clean and crisp whether in a beach town or the CBD in Makati.

Some guys don't like to wear shorts. Others like to dress "up." Its all a personal choice but a couple of quick showers and shaves a day coupled with proper judgment and discretion on how to dress go a long way. But, if its a guy's choice to sleep with dogs, he's going to get fleas anyway.

I had a pm from a guy in his 50s divorced this is my reply I think guys comming to PI should read, when I wrote the last paragraph I thought I should post it here.

I am not a big writer. But first go AC for 10 days more bars and it the easy place to get a girl to stay with you. Do not DATY they are not always STD free. Same for condoms use them. You can buy Chinese Viagra for 40 peso a pill take 1-2 a day you will be like a teen age boy. Get fit before you come to PI walk, push and sit ups. I am 45 living here so being 50 you should have fun in pussy heaven.

One last thing do not sponsor a girl until you move here just pay them for sex there is always more girls and bar girls are only for fucking. My photo of girls are gf not bar girls. So be ready to harden up no bar girl died of starvation but many guys suicide due to handing over all their savings to a bar girl.

What is so wrong about wearing flip-flops away from the beach? It's certainly a look that is sported by many Asians, as well as westerners even when living back in the west.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3; 1243225]I had a pm from a guy in his 50s divorced this is my reply I think guys comming to PI should read, when I wrote the last paragraph I thought I should post it here.

I am not a big writer. But first go AC for 10 days more bars and it the easy place to get a girl to stay with you. Do not DATY they are not always STD free. Same for condoms use them. You can buy Chinese Viagra for 40 peso a pill take 1-2 a day you will be like a teen age boy. Get fit before you come to PI walk, push and sit ups. I am 45 living here so being 50 you should have fun in pussy heaven.

One last thing do not sponsor a girl until you move here just pay them for sex there is always more girls and bar girls are only for fucking. My photo of girls are gf not bar girls. So be ready to harden up no bar girl died of starvation but many guys suicide due to handing over all their savings to a bar girl.[/QUOTE]LOL, reminds me of quote I heard in Cebu during my last trip.

"A small pussy can feed a large house". This is truly the attitude of many

Destitute families in Phils.

Newbies be very aware!

Keep in mind that the official dress of the Philippines is the barong, which is worn outside the pants.

This could infer that all filipinos would follow similar dress rules.

G

Any of you guys in the garment industry in Phillipines. Need some information, and aid in procuring some materials.

CT

Gents,

Has anybody been to Samal Island? I will be rolling through Philippines in March. I am done with the Angeles seen.

[QUOTE=Undakovabrotha; 1245823]Gents,

Has anybody been to Samal Island? I will be rolling through Philippines in March. I am done with the Angeles seen.[/QUOTE]I've been many times since at it's closest point Samal is only about a 10 minute boat ride from Davao. However, Samal is quite large, and there are several resorts in many locations, so to get some useful information, your questions will have to be somewhat more focused.

How about an alternative point of view. Since you have a big belly and it costs lots of money to fill that and maintain it, you must have a big wallet.

Snow.

[QUOTE=Westcoast1; 1242503]Could not have said it better myself.

Will respectfully disagree with Frenzy and possibly RK here just a bit, regarding the expat regular and the 2-week visiting warrior. Of the dozen or so white kano I saw in the coffee shops on the second floor (having coffee, chatting together, reading the paper) , the handful of other kano walking the mall at 11:30am, and the three kano I saw sitting in the hallway at the indoor / outdoor restaurant just inside the entrance, I'd say most or all are expats, not weekend warriors. I saw the same group of guys in those upstairs coffee shops more than one day in my one-week visit; hence I'd say they are regulars. With the exception of myself, all white foreigner in Ayala were 60+, all were overweight, all were wearing flip-flops, all were wearing shorts (oh! Those milk-white, vericose-veined legs!) , and only one had tucked his shirt tucked in. Remember Ron Howard movie,"Cocoon", with Wilford Brimley heading to the swimming pool in shorts, untucked hawaiian shirt, and flipflops? Ya, that's who was in those coffee shops. Its a given that at least half those guys are local expats. Nothing says,"I'm-going-to-ignore-everything-good-my-mama-taught-me-and-dress-poorly-here-like-I-would-never-dress-at-home-and-disrespect-your-culture" like flip-flops away from the beach. Well, possibly the shirt not tucked in to hide the beer belly. So, what is it among us, that makes us the ones not to clean up? Why can't we wear sandals (not flipflops)? Why is it we can't seem to tuck our shirts in? Why is it we don't seem to own any long pants (blue jeans would be fine)? Frenzy's right: we shoot ourselves in the foot.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Undakovabrotha; 1245823]Gents,

Has anybody been to Samal Island? I will be rolling through Philippines in March. I am done with the Angeles seen.[/QUOTE]I suggest (politely) , that you read TFF, UB. There have been several excellent reports in the forum by guys who know Davao and Samal. Just put 'Samal' into the search field. Definitely a BYOB kind of place.

[QUOTE=Undakovabrotha; 1245823]Gents,

Has anybody been to Samal Island? I will be rolling through Philippines in March. I am done with the Angeles seen.[/QUOTE]Hello!

This should be in the Davao thread so I posted the reply there.

Barba

[QUOTE=Questor55;1246084]I suggest (politely) , that you read TFF, UB. There have been several excellent reports in the forum by guys who know Davao and Samal. Just put 'Samal' into the search field. Definitely a BYOB kind of place.[/QUOTE]Many thanks to all!

[QUOTE=Cool Traveler; 1245327]Any of you guys in the garment industry in Phillipines. Need some information, and aid in procuring some materials.

CT[/QUOTE]I was going to write "go to Bangladesh" but then I found these reports.

[url]http://www.marketresearch.com/Textiles-Intelligence-v2646/Prospects-Textile-Garment-Philippines-1420305/[/url]

[url]http://www.tradechakra.com/economy/philippines/textile-industry-in-philippines-257.php[/url]

"The textile and garment sector in the Philippines is a vital part of the country's economy. It has 320, 000 employees, making it the largest employer in the manufacturing sector with 11% of the national total.

An additional 700, 000 people are employed as home-workers and small sub-contractors."

I never knew that this was so big in the Philippines. Would be interesting to know where these 320 K workers are concentrated to.

Apparently they are in trouble though.

[url]http://www.fibre2fashion.com/news/garment-apparel-news/philippines/[/url]

Cool Traveler why don't you try Alibaba? Easy way to find most one could wish to to import.

[url]http://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/PH/garment-industry.html[/url]

Barba.

[QUOTE=Vielendank;1246676]Hey Everyone, just wanted to pass along something that I just experienced with the DIA girls. I have been talking to several for my upcoming trip to Angeles City and Manila. I have been talking to additional girls with the plans of having some back-ups. I found out that when I was talking to a couple of the girls that I would all of a sudden start getting emails from several girls from the same city. Come to find out that the girl / s I was talking to had her friends send me emails seeing if I tried to set up something with them also. Seems that they have caught on to some near-do-well foreigners interested in their body parts for nothing but pleasure. Just be aware especially if you start getting lots of messages from girls near the ones your talking too. Obviously harder in the bigger cities but when you don't get many message and then start getting alot from one geographical areas then it should raise some red flags. I do know the one thing these girls hate is men who lie to them. Obviously they are fine if it's the other way around.[/QUOTE]Yeah, they pass your I'd around and then they all ask for money. And it evolves and evolves and evolves.

Just block the ones that ask for help in any way, shap or form. Problem is that you will still be getting messages from their sisters, nieces and baklas in the family. I think I got it under control but I dunno.

[QUOTE=Vielendank;1246676]. Seems that they have caught on to some near-do-well foreigners interested in their body parts for nothing but pleasure. I do know the one thing these girls hate is men who lie to them.[/QUOTE]It just reinforces what a few other regular posters and I have been saying on here for a long time.

Be honest and frank in your profile, but use subtle language so that you will not be reported and banned from the site.

My profile shows my marital status; why I am there; why I am [B]not [/B]looking for a wife; what I am seeking.

With such a profile I get a very low percentage of women who actually send me a message or "Show Interest" but it sieves out the women who are looking for the "happy ever afters". Guys who spin silly lies just to meet good-looking women will come undone more and more when the women become more and more savvy. I had the same experience as Vielendank with several girls from the same group sending me messages but for all the [B]right [/B]reasons. They knew I wanted more than one friend and the first woman shared my name and so they all wanted to be in on it.

The irony is that the [B]more honest[/B] And [B]direct [/B] That you seem to be, the more women like it. I chuckle when I read here about all the lies and scams that women use with guys but nobody seems to acknowledge that the same complaining guys are usually spinning all manner of lies to the women too. It is a vicious circle and we won't stop it.

[QUOTE=Vielendank;1246676]Hey Everyone, just wanted to pass along something that I just experienced with the DIA girls. I have been talking to several for my upcoming trip to Angeles City and Manila. I have been talking to additional girls with the plans of having some back-ups. I found out that when I was talking to a couple of the girls that I would all of a sudden start getting emails from several girls from the same city. Come to find out that the girl / s I was talking to had her friends send me emails seeing if I tried to set up something with them also. Seems that they have caught on to some near-do-well foreigners interested in their body parts for nothing but pleasure. Just be aware especially if you start getting lots of messages from girls near the ones your talking too. Obviously harder in the bigger cities but when you don't get many message and then start getting alot from one geographical areas then it should raise some red flags. I do know the one thing these girls hate is men who lie to them. Obviously they are fine if it's the other way around.[/QUOTE]What you do not understand is most of small towns are real small, they have nothing much to talk about, so they do talk about you. As for the lies the ones who lie are LB and scammers. So many guys are lying to the girls, the girls start of good then learn the game. So blame the idiots who try get free pussy or free cam to cam, these girls spend time and money to get online the 20 peso they spend comes out of their limited income, so the lies can cost the girls a lot.

I for one tell guys leave the online girls alone, just come here most will never meet you if you do not send money and even then they will not meet you. Get here and meet girls who are here and want to meet you. If your here for a week go to bars and discos, longer just be here going out you will meet plenty of girls.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1246722]It just reinforces what a few other regular posters and I have been saying on here for a long time.

Be honest and frank in your profile, but use subtle language so that you will not be reported and banned from the site.

My profile shows my marital status; why I am there; why I am [B]not [/B]looking for a wife; what I am seeking.

With such a profile I get a very low percentage of women who actually send me a message or "Show Interest" but it sieves out the women who are looking for the "happy ever afters". Guys who spin silly lies just to meet good-looking women will come undone more and more when the women become more and more savvy. I had the same experience as Vielendank with several girls from the same group sending me messages but for all the [B]right [/B]reasons. They knew I wanted more than one friend and the first woman shared my name and so they all wanted to be in on it.

The irony is that the [B]more honest[/B] And [B]direct [/B] That you seem to be, the more women like it. I chuckle when I read here about all the lies and scams that women use with guys but nobody seems to acknowledge that the same complaining guys are usually spinning all manner of lies to the women too. It is a vicious circle and we won't stop it.[/QUOTE]Red Kilt,

You touch on some good points and shine a light on an issue that some members I assume would rather keep quiet as it's rarely discussed here. Men who scam and lie to women either with dating profile descriptions, chat promises or promises made in person that they have no intentions of keeping.

Have you ever taken a look and browsed the profiles of men seeking women on some of the asian dating sites? Ay caramba! Seems there are endless romantics and countless guys seeking a wife and many more that claim to be seeking only special women in there life. I have only seen a few profiles that are blunt and are straight to the point.

Why would I browse profiles of other guys? Simple, to understand the actions and reactions of most filipinas, one needs to understand what kinds of influences they are exposed to. With extended time spent in the Philippines one can learn to understand the cultural inflections to a certain extent but IMO most women online are guided by experiences and interactions with foreigners both good and bad that shape there outlook.

I do think some of the guys online are seriously looking for a wife, but they are a very small percentage. Most of the guys online are chat and webcam warriors and have no intention of getting on a plane. I guesstimate the number of guys on any given dating website that will visit the Philippines soon or visits on a regular basis is below 15. That means most women online have to deal with alot of bola and broken promises, and it's those interactions that contribute to shape her thoughts and actions.

Guys are quick to post so-called "scammer" profiles in the chat rooms and pen-pals thread when they encounter one, very few stop to think about the equal quantities of guys online who scam them right back with endless promises and lies.

Personally, my profile is basic and simple with very few words. I always send a clear initial private message to someone that catches my eye that I am not seeking a wife, fun only. From my experience I get an even 50-50 split between outright rejection and women that are ok with what I am seeking. Of the 50% that claim to be ok, a further 25% will still refuse and back out along the way. It saves alot of time and headaches when the women know what I want and that leads to more jerjer time.

Years ago I flew into Dumaguete from Manila and on the airplane I struck up a conversation with a non-Filipino. It seems he was into a bz making backpacks. Not exactly textiles, but close enough.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1246700]I was going to write "go to Bangladesh" but then I found these reports.

SNIP.

Barba.[/QUOTE]

Towards the end of my last trip, I was staying with Miss J1, who was working.

So I had the days clear to do what I wanted.

So I arranged to meet Miss A1, with whom I had met through Cherry Blossoms some time ago. We met at the Podium Mall, very close to where I was staying. The intention was to have a coffee, or lunch, put a name to a face and body for later liaisons.

When she arrived, I was taken aback. She looked a lot more attractive than her photos. Bonus. Interestingly, when I remarked that she looked very young for a 30 year old, she said that she is really 24. Why would she fake her age up?

So we chatted away nicely, and then there was that lull in the conversation that heralds something interesting. So I asked her what she wanted to do.

No reply.

So I asked if she would like to come to the hotel to watch some TV. Yes. So we walked there, up to the room. Sat at the head of the bed and on with the TV. But she wanted to kiss and cuddle, and very soon we were naked. And she was very wet.

So I started to stroke and generally get her started, but no need, she was awash, and very hot. So I rolled her on top of me, and went to slide into her, but very tight resistance. Then it dawned on me, so I asked if she was a virgin. Yes.

Switched to virgin deflowering mode, and very slowly eased into her, with her in control. Once I was inside, we stopped, stayed still, and I welcomed her into the world of womanhood.

She was so tight, and so passionate, that it only took a few strokes for her to get a bellyful of my essential bodily fluids.

We just stayed still again, while I stroked her all over, and calmed her down. Then we had a cuddle and a smooch. She got dressed, and we went out.

Just wonderful.

This trip, we arranged for her to stay over for 2 days. Wow, what a woman. Intensely passionate, horny as hell, wants servicing all day and night. And she is such a lovely woman to boot. Not educated, but smart and intelligent. And very attractive in a simple faced way.

A real keeper.

G

Towards the end of this last trip, I had arranged with Miss A2 that she would meet up and stay with me for 2 days. I reckon that this is enough time to get to know whether she is a long term prospect / keeper or not. She is 32, or thereabouts, lives in Cavite.

We had a few texts back and forth during the morning to confirm her progress. And she turned up exactly on time, to the minute. A text to say that she was outside, and was it OK that her friend is with her. OK.

So down I went. She was just like her photos and her profile. A plain face, big nervous smile. 5'7" tall and skinny. Just how I like them. Her friend was the opposite, the classical short, fat, ugly sidekick.

So I invited them to the resto next door to get a feeling for what was going to happen. We all ordered, chatted while we ate. It transpired that the ugly friend came to show Miss A2 how to get to the hotel. I had been telling her to take a taxi, but it had not registered. And then towards the finish, the friend announced that she was going back, and I should look after Miss A2. Yes Maam.

So Miss ugly disappeared into the throng, and Miss A2 and I proceeded upstairs. Once ensconced, she was pretty keen to get on with the kissing and fondling, and pretty soon we were naked on the bed. She was trembling in anticipation, and extremely wet. Her juices were running down her legs. So I just rolled her on top of me and went to slip into her. But I could not slip in. Then it dawned on me, and I asked if she was a virgin. Yes. So I shifted into virgin deflowering mode, and we jointly worked to get me inside her. Once I was there, she was breathing so heavily, chest heaving.

So I welcomed her to the world of womanhood, and I proceeded, to tell her what I was going to do, and what was going to happen. She was so tight, and so wet, that again, I came pretty quickly. I told her that I had come, and she was breathing heavily. So we just lay there, she on top of me, and I stroked her all over, calm her down, talk quietly into her ear. After a while, I rolled her off, we wrapped arms around, and drifted off into a lovely snooze.

We woke up early evening, went out to eat. Then back to the room. During our conversations, I was getting the feeling that she was so uneducated, so shielded from the world, that she would need intensive support.

She was pretty keen for round 2, which we did in a very slow style, lots of foreplay to get her some understanding of what sexual pleasure is all about. But she could not come that time.

Again, we drifted off to sleep.

Next morning, we had a cuddle and a smooch, and then downstairs for breakfast. Somehow the conversation got round to how she would get home. And I was astounded when she said that she could not get home by herself, from Ortigas to Cavite. Even if I walked her down to the MRT station, and put her on the right train, she could not do it. Wow. 32 years old.

Some time later, when we were back in the room, I told her that I thought that we were not suitable for each other, because I needed a woman who could find her way around, could fly from place to place, who could get things done by herself.

She was sad, but she understood what I was saying, and soon after that, we parted as friends. She had some money for a taxi fare to take her all the way home to Cavite, and I put her into a taxi at the door of the hotel. Wow.

I was reading an article on Whitney Houston's death today and speculation about what the toxicology studies regarding what caused her death will show when they are available.

The article further speculates that her death will be shown to have been caused by mixing prescription drugs with alcohol.

The article (in NY Times) then went on to report the data gathered over the past year about the number of people who have died from mixing prescription drugs with alcohol.

I then started thinking about the number of guys who come here for a riotous 2 or 3 weeks, pop a Viagra or Cialis or Andros (whether legitimate from a Pharmacy or whether from the street containing unknown ingredients) [B]every day or second day[/B], and then go out drinking all manner of alcoholic cocktails (beer, vodka + Red Bull, mixes of beer, shooters etc) and follow it up with an energetic romp with a EWR woman later in the night.

It seems to me that given the percentage of self-confessed unfit, over-weight mongers around, all these combos are quite lethal and need a bit more thought.

I wonder just how many mongers in AC or Manila or anywhere else actually drop dead whilst in the throes of pleasure. I imagine it doesn't make the newspapers if someone dies "peacefully" and from apparent natural causes with no suspicious circumstances. It also makes me think that some of the Obituary columns in "Harry the Horse" may well have been generated by guys both old and young taking uncontrolled doses of medication washed down by copious amounts of alcohol and then busting a fuse in the bed with a horny little bedmate for the night.

Food for thought I reckon.

Having recently finished a short trip to the Phils (3 weeks) , I had my mandatory full scan for STI.

While there, I sexed 10 women, including 5 new ones. Result. Nil return.

This brings the total number of women that I have sexed bareback to about 400. I think that I have used a condom once or twice in my life. Never contracted any form of STI. And my regular doc, who expresses amazement at all of this, assures me that I can not be naturally immune to STI.

However, I have been nicked, so there is no risk of pregnancy.

Maybe, just maybe, the risks that we get fed by various governments are deliberately over inflated, and there is some other cause for the continuous calls for safe sex.

Cause for some thought and serious statistical risk analysis.

G

[QUOTE=Gangles;1249271]Never contracted any form of STI.[/QUOTE]Circumcised, right?

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1248867]I then started thinking about the number of guys who come here for a riotous 2 or 3 weeks, pop a Viagra or Cialis or Andros (whether legitimate from a Pharmacy or whether from the street containing unknown ingredients) [B]every day or second day[/B], and then go out drinking all manner of alcoholic cocktails (beer, vodka + Red Bull, mixes of beer, shooters etc) and follow it up with an energetic romp with a EWR woman later in the night.

It seems to me that given the percentage of self-confessed unfit, over-weight mongers around, all these combos are quite lethal and need a bit more thought.

I wonder just how many mongers in AC or Manila or anywhere else actually drop dead whilst in the throes of pleasure. I imagine it doesn't make the newspapers if someone dies "peacefully" and from apparent natural causes with no suspicious circumstances. It also makes me think that some of the Obituary columns in "Harry the Horse" may well have been generated by guys both old and young taking uncontrolled doses of medication washed down by copious amounts of alcohol and then busting a fuse in the bed with a horny little bedmate for the night.

Food for thought I reckon.[/QUOTE]If ya gotta go, not a bad way. Rather die in the saddle than wasting away in a hospital or nursing home.

[QUOTE=David_33;1249312]Circumcised, right?[/QUOTE]Either that or a red clown nose. LOL. There is also a correlation between global warming and a decline of the number of pirates in the Caribbean sea.

Just pulling your leg a bit now David, but in my belief cutting off the foreskin will have little effect on many STD:s, considering how they are transmitted. Personally I think the studies that I have seen either direct or in reference, either where done on to small groups and / or did not take cultural differences (behavioral patterns) into consideration. These reports seem to be selling something else than health. Given the cleverness of evolution one could wonder why uncircumcised men did not turn into circumcised men as time passed, but on the other hand we are constantly evolving so in 1000 years we might not even have dicks (how lucky are we not to live right now).

Some fractions of some cultures suggests that they practiced this "forever" for hygiene reasons, but "forever" is a puff in universe in this context. Cutting of the foreskin can be seen as a revolution, I. E. A fast but manipulated evolution, and the motives or outcome of such, has little relevance in the unmerciful progress of natural selection.

In any case this topic has been discussed many times here and I do not want to start a storm of opinions again, so I blame Saturday boredom for this post and beg your indulgence and patience.

To contribute something substantial, other than possibly to refrain from buying a scalpel, I can advice bareback readers to try for example Alibaba. Com for instant STD tests. Buy 100 of some brand you find trustworthy, and you will be at least slightly more equipped to avoid catching something nasty.

[url]http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?SearchText=rapid[/url]+hiv+test&Country=&IndexArea=product_en&fsb=why.

All the best from Barba.

STD free with foreskin.

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1249271]. .

Maybe, just maybe, the risks that we get fed by various governments are deliberately over inflated, and there is some other cause for the continuous calls for safe sex.

Cause for some thought and serious statistical risk analysis.

G[/QUOTE]I am not clear why you feel the need to be such an advocate for bareback sex Gangles.

Your statistics of zero from 400 can probably be matched by someone here with 3 from 10.

Guys who get regular STIs are hardly likely to come on here and boast about it.

For me, statistics don't mean anything. Just one instance would be enough for me.

On Friday I learned about a 21 year old who developed Chlamydia that ended up as a major pelvic infection with complications and she has just had her uterus removed. She knows who gave it to her. It is not always all about the guy being protected. Women need protection too. In your case you are vasectomised so that eliminates one element of "risk" for you in that you know the woman will not get preggers.

I think it is more salutary to just do what you want rather than try to convince others to do what you do. Bit like missionaries really.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt;1249522]I think it is more salutary to just do what you want rather than try to convince others to do what you do. Bit like missionaries really.[/QUOTE]I want to add that I totally agree. I was raised in an era where we where thought to wear dry suits when we have sex so for me bareback, strange enough, is the unnatural state. But still the better of the two, of course. My post is not an attempt to motivate anyone to exchange condoms for rapid test kits. But IF you are going to do it, it is better to test yourself and the girl first. Some of these tests are the ones they use in clinics in some parts of the world. You can still miss an infection that did not develop (read up folks) , but doing a a test is better than nothing. And you get to play doctor as well.

Barba

[QUOTE=Ebauche;1249317]If ya gotta go, not a bad way. Rather die in the saddle than wasting away in a hospital or nursing home.[/QUOTE]If you read The Inquirer or other local papers in Phils, there are regular cases of guys popping their clogs, in Sogos and the other similar cases. You never know what happened in the room before you and honey were there. LOL

Hey there RK.

If you go back over my post, you will not find any advocacy on my part for barebacking. I said that I do it, but I did not suggest that you should do it.

I have a lot of applied statistics at post grad level, so all that I do is to post the numbers. No more.

But part of the reason why I do so is that so-called risk levels broadcast by governments do not add up when the actual numbers are revealed. That is, we are being deliberately fed incorrect information which is deliberately designed to promote fear in our communities.

And if you remember my earlier post about the psyche in western society is fear, this fits the pattern.

We are being kept in a state of continuous fear by our governments. And in my opinion, this is one kind of fear campaign that we do not need.

Do you remember the Grim Reaper campaign, to create unrealistic fear of AIDS in heterosexual couples? That was an utter disgrace, when the rate of infection among heterosexual couples, from sex only, is about 5 persons per year. That is negligible when compared with mortality rates from driving cars. Thousands per year.

However, I do admit that the concepts of applied statistics and risk analysis are a bit technical.

So what I am advocating is that you take a long hard look at the types of campaigns, such as safe sex, which are being promoted by governments.

G.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1249522]I am not clear why you feel the need to be such an advocate for bareback sex Gangles.

Your statistics of zero from 400 can probably be matched by someone here with 3 from 10.

Guys who get regular STIs are hardly likely to come on here and boast about it.

For me, statistics don't mean anything. Just one instance would be enough for me.

On Friday I learned about a 21 year old who developed Chlamydia that ended up as a major pelvic infection with complications and she has just had her uterus removed. She knows who gave it to her. It is not always all about the guy being protected. Women need protection too. In your case you are vasectomised so that eliminates one element of "risk" for you in that you know the woman will not get preggers.

I think it is more salutary to just do what you want rather than try to convince others to do what you do. Bit like missionaries really.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1249271]Having recently finished a short trip to the Phils (3 weeks) , I had my mandatory full scan for STI.

While there, I sexed 10 women, including 5 new ones. Result. Nil return.

This brings the total number of women that I have sexed bareback to about 400. I think that I have used a condom once or twice in my life. Never contracted any form of STI. And my regular doc, who expresses amazement at all of this, assures me that I can not be naturally immune to STI.

However, I have been nicked, so there is no risk of pregnancy.

Maybe, just maybe, the risks that we get fed by various governments are deliberately over inflated, and there is some other cause for the continuous calls for safe sex.

Cause for some thought and serious statistical risk analysis.

G[/QUOTE]I guess you have been lucky so far. Do not push it. Bareback sex with girls of unknown past definitely will put you at risk of catching something. Even with "regular " girls nothing is foolproof.

Most often you get other than HIV. I am sure all mongers have caught something at times. Some may never know because either they had no symptoms or took antibiotics. Many girls also do not know if they are infected because of no symptoms. Also it is a proven point that not everybody who has sex with infected person will catch it. Lot to do with personal resistance.

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1249271]Having recently finished a short trip to the Phils (3 weeks) , I had my mandatory full scan for STI.

While there, I sexed 10 women, including 5 new ones. Result. Nil return.

This brings the total number of women that I have sexed bareback to about 400. I think that I have used a condom once or twice in my life. Never contracted any form of STI. And my regular doc, who expresses amazement at all of this, assures me that I can not be naturally immune to STI.

However, I have been nicked, so there is no risk of pregnancy.

Maybe, just maybe, the risks that we get fed by various governments are deliberately over inflated, and there is some other cause for the continuous calls for safe sex.

Cause for some thought and serious statistical risk analysis.

G[/QUOTE]This is not so unusual. There are a lot of mongers out there who routinely go skinless. Those who use condoms rarely do so consistently. Pinays prefer it skinless with the load delivered inside as nature intended anyway. This is especially true if the guy is considered a boyfriend.

Some punters may recognise that my post contained "raw data", that is direct, immediate measurement.

This is priceless.

By the time a punter gets some so-called statistical data, the (government) agency which collected and / or published it, has usually processed it, adjusted it, corrected it, so that the punter is totally obstructed from making their own judgements.

And of course all governments have their own political agendas. For example, the Australian publishes numbers or reported HIV infections each year. These are about 1100 per year. And the implication is included in the press release that couples need to practice safe sex to avoid the risk of HIV / AiIDS. That is, a rate of 1100 per year in a population of 22 million. But the press releases never include the breakdown of reported cases into the relevant risk groups; that is male homosexuals, inteavenous drug users, and straight heterosexuals, practicing heterosexual sex. This last number is usually about 5. That is 5 cases in 22 million people, per year. That is effectively negligible risk. Why does the govt not publish this number? Because straight heterosexuals would no longer be afraid.

I would be interested to get other raw data from punters. How many women you think you have sexed, what percentage of those were bareback, whether you have contracted and STIs, and whether some of the women that you have sexed were marriage or long term relationships.

This could give us some real data to carry out some analyses, and to get some real truth.

This barebacking discussion is endless. The guys who bareback will continue doing so regardless of the risks. A quick trip to the african forum of ISG will offer ample evidence of that.

The endless supply of these spunky knights without shining armor makes it important for the rest of us to protect ourselves.

I got chlamydia twice when I was young and it was a double warning message reminder to keep the shields up. I feel much better with a condom on, both physically (it makes me last longer) and of course emotionally (knowing to be protected).

The most annoying STD for me is actually the. Common cold and flu! First thing that happens when I travel to a new area and meet a new damsel there, is to pick up her cold infection, and spend the next 3 days with running nose, sandpaper throat, headache and other ailments mockingly described by the ladies as "man-flu".

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1249648]Hey there RK.

If you go back over my post, you will not find any advocacy on my part for barebacking. I said that I do it, but I did not suggest that you should do it.

I have a lot of applied statistics at post grad level, so all that I do is to post the numbers. No more.

But part of the reason why I do so is that so-called risk levels broadcast by governments do not add up when the actual numbers are revealed. That is, we are being deliberately fed incorrect information which is deliberately designed to promote fear in our communities.

And if you remember my earlier post about the psyche in western society is fear, this fits the pattern.

We are being kept in a state of continuous fear by our governments. And in my opinion, this is one kind of fear campaign that we do not need.

Do you remember the Grim Reaper campaign, to create unrealistic fear of AIDS in heterosexual couples? That was an utter disgrace, when the rate of infection among heterosexual couples, from sex only, is about 5 persons per year. That is negligible when compared with mortality rates from driving cars. Thousands per year.

However, I do admit that the concepts of applied statistics and risk analysis are a bit technical.

So what I am advocating is that you take a long hard look at the types of campaigns, such as safe sex, which are being promoted by governments.

G.[/QUOTE]You are right on with your comments. Another issue is the liars. It is unfortunate actually. Doctors joke how 100% of patients lie when it comes to medical history. More and more gays and Bi's getting HIV are stating they are Hetero. They do not want the stima or judging that goes with gay sex.

They feel if they say they got it from hetero, people will be more accepting. Some of you claim to know heteros who caught HIV.

Do you really know them? Do you follow them 24/7? There are many closet gays, Bi's, and ladyboy lovers out there, that you would never guess are into that lifestyle.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1249522]. On Friday I learned about a 21 year old who developed Chlamydia that ended up as a major pelvic infection with complications and she has just had her uterus removed. She knows who gave it to her. It is not always all about the guy being protected. Women need protection too. In your case you are vasectomised so that eliminates one element of "risk" for you in that you know the woman will not get preggers.

I think it is more salutary to just do what you want rather than try to convince others to do what you do. Bit like missionaries really.[/QUOTE]On this point Red Kilt, I agree 1000. Filipinos are often frightfully ignorant when it comes to disease and treatment, not to mention the challenges they have in affording any kind of good health care.

When talking to a girl one time, she was telling me about an illness in her family and I asked if they were doing anything about it, and she told me of course "her cousin had taken an antibiotic right after getting sick." When I asked how long she had been on that course of antibiotics she said "oh, no, she only took one pill." This was considered normal treatment!

All too often these girls will do whatever a guy wants. So if your barebacking them, you are subject to all their past poor decisions and only further their risky behaviour.

[QUOTE=Fast Buck Artist; 1249971]The most annoying STD for me is actually the. Common cold and flu! First thing that happens when I travel to a new area and meet a new damsel there, is to pick up her cold infection, and spend the next 3 days with running nose, sandpaper throat, headache and other ailments mockingly described by the ladies as "man-flu".[/QUOTE]IMO, you are far more likely to catch a cold from someone on your International flight. Long hours spent couped up in tight quarters with bad air quality recirculating around and around with little or no filtering. Anyone sitting 10 rows away from you and coughing and sneezing there head off can spread flu germs throughout that tin can within a few hours. After the short incubation period the cold virus will appear once you have situated yourself in your destination Country making it seem like you contracted the flu from your first "new damsel".

Personally I bring Purell with me and wipe all the normal touchable surfaces including armrests, seat recline buttons, touch screen buttons and tray release knobs when I board. I reapply a copious amount of Purell to my hands after going to the bathroom on board since those CR's are a germ playground and are rarely sanitized, just lightly cleaned at best to look tidy. Not really a germaphobe just informed and like to minimize the risk. No telling what kind of sick slob sat in my seat a few days before me.

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88; 1250336]IMO, you are far more likely to catch a cold from someone on your International flight. Long hours spent couped up in tight quarters with bad air quality recirculating around and around with little or no filtering. Anyone sitting 10 rows away from you and coughing and sneezing there head off can spread flu germs throughout that tin can within a few hours. After the short incubation period the cold virus will appear once you have situated yourself in your destination Country making it seem like you contracted the flu from your first "new damsel".

Personally I bring Purell with me and wipe all the normal touchable surfaces including armrests, seat recline buttons, touch screen buttons and tray release knobs when I board. I reapply a copious amount of Purell to my hands after going to the bathroom on board since those CR's are a germ playground and are rarely sanitized, just lightly cleaned at best to look tidy. Not really a germaphobe just informed and like to minimize the risk. No telling what kind of sick slob sat in my seat a few days before me.[/QUOTE]Most often cold is caught from the damsel you met and DFk'd. First of all your resistance is not there because of long flight, lack of sleep. Combined with alcohol, smokey bar, sweaty girls and freezing air in bars your immune system is down. Bargirls fuck, DFK, BBBJ frequently. So if you are at risk for anything and everything. There are times I got a cold and there are times I did not get a cold.

So far I have not caught any STD's I know off from bargirls or normal girls from Phi, China, Thailand, cambo etc. Yes, I do bareback sometimes.

However I have caught Chlamydia, siphylis, Gono from normal American girls when I was young.

So I would say generally it maybe safe in asian countries or is it just LUCK!

Looks like the Philippine police are living up to their reputation.


[url]http://www.manilatimes.net/index.php/news/breaking-news/17656-philippine-police-wanted-for-skorean-kidnap[/url]

Sammon and Stroker bring up some interesting points. Some of which I hadn't thought about before. I've always assumed the cold-like symptoms were because I wasnt accustomed to and hadn't adapted to the various viruses located in that geographic area.

I've noticed a strong correlation of myself licking snatch and feeling bad the next day. Is that nonsense? After all I kiss the gals, so why would one orifice be more infectious than the other? I have no idea. Do we have any doctors here?

Stroker, I see the point about wiping down surfaces, but you also suggest that the virus is transmitted thru the airline cabin. Is that factual information or just a hunch? X man.

[QUOTE=Sammon; 1250355]Most often cold is caught from the damsel you met and DFk'd. First of all your resistance is not there because of long flight, lack of sleep. Combined with alcohol, smokey bar, sweaty girls and freezing air in bars your immune system is down. Bargirls fuck, DFK, BBBJ frequently. So if you are at risk for anything and everything. There are times I got a cold and there are times I did not get a cold.

So far I have not caught any STD's I know off from bargirls or normal girls from Phi, China, Thailand, cambo etc. Yes, I do bareback sometimes.

However I have caught Chlamydia, siphylis, Gono from normal American girls when I was young.

So I would say generally it maybe safe in asian countries or is it just LUCK![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=X Man;1250634]I've noticed a strong correlation of myself licking snatch and feeling bad the next day. Is that nonsense? After all I kiss the gals, so why would one orifice be more infectious than the other? I have no idea. Do we have any doctors here?[/quote]Airline stewardess by any chance? JK. ;)

[quote]Stroker, I see the point about wiping down surfaces, but you also suggest that the virus is transmitted thru the airline cabin. Is that factual information or just a hunch? X man.[/QUOTE]Recent studies are contradictory.

The CDC says,"All commercial jet aircraft built after the late 1980s and a few modified older aircraft recirculate 10%–50% of the air in the cabin mixed with outside air. The recirculated air passes through a series of filters 20–30 times per hour. In most newer-model airplanes, the recycled air passes through high-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) filters, which capture 99. 9% of particles (bacteria, fungi, and larger viruses) between 0. 1 and 0. 3 µm in diameter. Air flow occurs transversely across the plane in limited bands, and air is not forced up and down the length of the plane. As a result, the air cabin environment is not conducive to the spread of most infectious diseases."

They also go on to state,"Communicable diseases may be transmitted to other travelers during air travel; therefore, people who are acutely ill, or still within the infectious period for a specific disease, should be discouraged from traveling. Travelers should be reminded to wash their hands frequently and thoroughly (or use an alcohol-based hand cleaner) , especially after using the toilet and before preparing or eating food. Travelers should also be reminded to cover their noses and mouths when coughing or sneezing. [SNIP] Transmission of the influenza virus aboard aircraft has been documented, but data are limited. Transmission is thought to be primarily due to large droplets; therefore, passengers seated closest to the source case are believed to be most at risk for exposure."

[url]http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2012/chapter-6-conveyance-and-transportation-issues/air-travel.htm[/url]

There are also alot of other sources such as the independanttravellerdotcom that claim,"Airline carriers are also formidable carriers of the common cold. A recent study says that colds may be more than 100 times more likely to be transmitted on a plane than during normal daily life on the ground, according to the Journal of Environmental Health Research. [SNIP] The publishers of the study investigate a panoply of possible causes, including close quarters, shared air and, as I will explain, the most likely culprit: extremely low cabin humidity."

The article goes on to mention, [SNIP] "the common perception that flying causes colds seems to be based in fact. Maybe even 113 times over. The study runs through several potential sources of higher transmission, but settles primarily on a single likely cause: extremely low cabin humidity caused by low humidity at high elevations. (A review of the study reveals the conclusion that aircraft that actively recirculated air actually showed slightly lower transmission rates than those that did not.)"

"Most commercial airlines fly in an elevation range of 30, 000 to 35, 000 feet, where humidity typically runs at 10 percent or lower. At very low levels of humidity, the "natural defense system" of mucus in our noses and throats dries up and is crippled, creating a much more tolerant environment for germs to infect us."

[url]http://www.independenttraveler.com/travel-tips/air-travel/avoiding-the-airplane-cold[/url]

Personally I am inclined to believe there is an increased risk factor from being in close contact for prolonged periods (14-18hr+ nonstop flights) and weak airline maintenance of filters especially with PAL. One only needs to look at young students, when one gets sick they all get sick. Most are at school for around 8hrs a day while on International flights PAX are couped up for double that time but again I am not a doctor, I just play one on TV. JK :D

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1248867]I then started thinking about the number of guys who come here for a riotous 2 or 3 weeks, pop a Viagra or Cialis or Andros (whether legitimate from a Pharmacy or whether from the street containing unknown ingredients) [B]every day or second day[/B], and then go out drinking all manner of alcoholic cocktails (beer, vodka + Red Bull, mixes of beer, shooters etc) and follow it up with an energetic romp with a EWR woman later in the night.

It seems to me that given the percentage of self-confessed unfit, over-weight mongers around, all these combos are quite lethal and need a bit more thought.

I wonder just how many mongers in AC or Manila or anywhere else actually drop dead whilst in the throes of pleasure.[/QUOTE]I heard this just happened in Dimples Bar in Manila a couple a months ago!

Thanks for the info. I live in Asia, so Manila is only five hours from me. These two sentences Made the most sense to me. X.

"Most commercial airlines fly in an elevation range of 30, 000 to 35, 000 feet, where humidity typically runs at 10 percent or lower. At very low levels of humidity, the "natural defense system" of mucus in our noses and throats dries up and is crippled, creating a much more tolerant environment for germs to infect us."

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88; 1250807]Airline stewardess by any chance? JK. .

Recent studies are contradictory. SNIP. .[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1248867]I was reading an article on Whitney Houston's death today and speculation about what the toxicology studies regarding what caused her death will show when they are available.

The article further speculates that her death will be shown to have been caused by mixing prescription drugs with alcohol.

The article (in NY Times) then went on to report the data gathered over the past year about the number of people who have died from mixing prescription drugs with alcohol.

I then started thinking about the number of guys who come here for a riotous 2 or 3 weeks, pop a Viagra or Cialis or Andros (whether legitimate from a Pharmacy or whether from the street containing unknown ingredients) [B]every day or second day[/B], and then go out drinking all manner of alcoholic cocktails (beer, vodka + Red Bull, mixes of beer, shooters etc) and follow it up with an energetic romp with a EWR woman later in the night.

It seems to me that given the percentage of self-confessed unfit, over-weight mongers around, all these combos are quite lethal and need a bit more thought.

I wonder just how many mongers in AC or Manila or anywhere else actually drop dead whilst in the throes of pleasure. I imagine it doesn't make the newspapers if someone dies "peacefully" and from apparent natural causes with no suspicious circumstances. It also makes me think that some of the Obituary columns in "Harry the Horse" may well have been generated by guys both old and young taking uncontrolled doses of medication washed down by copious amounts of alcohol and then busting a fuse in the bed with a horny little bedmate for the night.

Food for thought I reckon.[/QUOTE]Just got back from AC and only couple of weeks ago a punter died inside Voodoo bar from heart attack. One of the bargirls told me he was swallowing Viagra like lolies and drinking for days and most girls there believe it was the viagra that killed him. I know few years ago one coctail that was popular in AC was the viagra bomb. People should seriously think about what they consume otherwise they may not be able to make the next trip.

[QUOTE=X Man;1251040]"Most commercial airlines fly in an elevation range of 30, 000 to 35, 000 feet, where humidity typically runs at 10 percent or lower. At very low levels of humidity, the "natural defense system" of mucus in our noses and throats dries up and is crippled, creating a much more tolerant environment for germs to infect us."[/QUOTE]Not only may there be less humidity at higher altitude, you have to consider that an airliner's aircon system is running during the entire flight (regardless of the temperature setting of the thermostat, the compressors are chilling and removing humididty from the air). I don't remember the name of the book, but several flight attendants wrote years ago about how FA's (male and female) routinely stock up on and slather on moisureizing lotion before a flight. They also hydrate. Your defense against this is to also hydrate.

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1251266]They also hydrate. Your defense against this is to also hydrate.[/QUOTE]I would like to hydrate some of those sexy filipina airline attendants! They should start offering handjobs for tips on the flight.

[QUOTE=X Man;1250634]I've noticed a strong correlation of myself licking snatch and feeling bad the next day. Is that nonsense? After all I kiss the gals, so why would one orifice be more infectious than the other? I have no idea. Do we have any doctors here?[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Stroker Ace88;1250807]Airline stewardess by any chance? JK. ;)[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Tally Wacker;1251299]I would like to hydrate some of those sexy filipina airline attendants! They should start offering handjobs for tips on the flight.[/QUOTE]Bugger air quality on airplanes. That's boring. Now the inimical qualities of trolley dollies is a different matter. That is of interest to any self respecting monger.

Here is one you would definitely enjoy hydrating, TW. Also X wouldn't mind catching a cold bug or two from her snatch which was the finest I have seen on a Filipina, ever. And I know that I am not alone in this opinion which is shared by another senior member here who has also been lucky enough to have tupped her.

I kid you not.

[quote=asianpussylover; 1249053]i found this online so i am going to paste a piece here:

"when i returned to the u s i was the only one on the plane they took aside and did a special customs search.

they went through every pocket my camera and looked at every photo. which had a few of older ladies that i hooked up with. when they did not find anything after searching for over an hour they let me go.

two weeks later two homeland security agents showed up at my front door and said they wanted to check out my computer because when i went through customs they said it was reported that i had photos of ladies of questionable age on my camera. i told them no, the main reason i did not want them to look in my pc was i have a lot of business information on it which i felt was none of the governments business. they said if they had to come back with a warrant they would not be so nice.

i called a friend of mine while they were here for advice he told me to tell them no and go get a warrant and ask them if they had any more questions to go through him. they left and i have never heard from them again."

any of this happened to any of you guys? how strong is the built in windows disk encryption program? please provide any of your experiences. the last time i got off a plane the immigration official let on to the fact that i was on some kind of list. but he did not provide anymore details. as he was talking i took a quick glance down on his desk and sure enough there was some list and my name was on it. fortunately i did not have a laptop on me at the time, but i usually always travel with one.[/quote][quote=mr enternational;1251204]another bullshit story. how would this person know they were the only one on the plane to get searched? i've never heard of us customs going to someone's house. the will send a letter about something but won't show up in person. if they did show up in person you would think they would have sense enough to bring a warrant! i'm going to put all this nonsense to rest one way or the other. i'm in the dominican republic today, but tomorrow i will return to the usa. and i will make it a priority to ask a customs agent about all this picture and going through computers business.[/quote]well i asked just like i said i would. i laid out the story to him just as i have read it on the board so many times. he said that of course everything is subject to search, but for them to go through someone's computer or camera there would have already had to be a predetermined reason like somebody ratted them out as a **** from the other end (that is how they catch most drug mules by the way). he said it would be really rare and he has never seen it done. i told him the part about the agents going to the guys house. he said they didn't go to people's houses. that would have been the fbi if it were true. i also asked him about anybody being on a list where they are always searched. he said it did not exist. he laughed and asked where i got all the crazy ideas from. i told him from reading the internet. he told me that i needed to stop blogging so much. i told him that after passing through immigration and customs hundreds of times my bag has been searched for drugs once and i have been directed to agriculture twice, but never any of the off the wall stuff that i read on this board.

[QUOTE=Mc Don;1251135]Just got back from AC and only couple of weeks ago a punter died inside Voodoo bar from heart attack. One of the bargirls told me he was swallowing Viagra like lolies and drinking for days and most girls there believe it was the viagra that killed him. I know few years ago one coctail that was popular in AC was the viagra bomb. People should seriously think about what they consume otherwise they may not be able to make the next trip.[/QUOTE]He died a true monger's death, stiff as a board!

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger;1251588]He died a true monger's death, stiff as a board![/QUOTE]Ah shit your still alive? I thought that was you that died on your first trip to the Philippines.

Has anyone had any experience with girls with police connections?

A friend has a problem derived from living with a number of Phil GFs in a condo in Phils with other girls visiting regularly. Two of them were becoming difficult and so he asked them to leave. This was probably not done as diplomatically as it could have been and one of them claims to have gone to the police and shown them a folder of raunchy pics inc 3 somes. All the girls living in the Condo were in their 20s but a couple of those visiting were 18 and looked rather young.

She texted the other girls to leave the condo immediately and they did along with my friend. Of course this could all be bluff, but worryingly he found that the previous day the relevant folder on his computer had been tampered with by the girl in question and she had also synched her iphone contacts with his laptop and that there were now half a dozen police contacts on his laptop. The other girl in question confirmed that this girl has several close police friends including one who was supporting her through school and she met them that night to tell them of the situation in the condo. When one of the girls used my friends phone to call the girl it was answered by a male who spoke good English and asked who she was, there was an immediate call back to ask whether he could speak to my friend but the girl reponded that he wasnt there.

Anyone with any experience of this type of situation and assessment of how serious the situation is and recommended courses of action?

Obviously there are many lessons to be learned from this story both for my friend and others but would appreciate any constructive advice and shared experience to the board or via PM.

Better safe then sorry. It seems her contacts are real. No point bargaining with her if she has already spoken to the cops they will want their piece of the pie if she is baffling then she can turn on your friend anytime anyway. She has photos, I say time to skip town and change phone numbers. Plenty more fish in the sea.

[QUOTE=GregLondon; 1252045]Has anyone had any experience with girls with police connections?

A friend has a problem derived from living with a number of Phil GFs in a condo in Phils with other girls visiting regularly. Two of them were becoming difficult and so he asked them to leave. This was probably not done as diplomatically as it could have been and one of them claims to have gone to the police and shown them a folder of raunchy pics inc 3 somes. All the girls living in the Condo were in their 20s but a couple of those visiting were 18 and looked rather young.

She texted the other girls to leave the condo immediately and they did along with my friend. Of course this could all be bluff, but worryingly he found that the previous day the relevant folder on his computer had been tampered with by the girl in question and she had also synched her iphone contacts with his laptop and that there were now half a dozen police contacts on his laptop. The other girl in question confirmed that this girl has several close police friends including one who was supporting her through school and she met them that night to tell them of the situation in the condo. When one of the girls used my friends phone to call the girl it was answered by a male who spoke good English and asked who she was, there was an immediate call back to ask whether he could speak to my friend but the girl reponded that he wasnt there.

Anyone with any experience of this type of situation and assessment of how serious the situation is and recommended courses of action?

Obviously there are many lessons to be learned from this story both for my friend and others but would appreciate any constructive advice and shared experience to the board or via PM.[/QUOTE]

[quote=greglondon; 1252045]has anyone had any experience with girls with police connections?

a friend has a problem derived from living with a number of phil gfs in a condo in phils with other girls visiting regularly. [snip] anyone with any experience of this type of situation and assessment of how serious the situation is and recommended courses of action?

obviously there are many lessons to be learned from this story both for my friend and others but would appreciate any constructive advice and shared experience to the board or via pm.[/quote]gl,

in the philippines everyone is related to a police officer or have a neighbor or friend that knows a pnp officer. my only comment on your friends situation, if you play with fire sooner or later you will get burned. living with multiple girls in a condo or condo certified town house that's in the guys name is the dumbest move of all time. the guy opens himself up to have serious charges brought against him as the owner of a common bodyhouse. they also can potentially charge him with [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url], kidnapping, forceable confinement, possibly sex trafficking and any number of other things but that depends on what the girl (s) tell the pnp, what's on his hardrive and on his camera. also what the girls are willing to swear to and write on the signed statement. with that statement the condo is g-o-n-e if the case goes before a judge. at the very least the pnp, the girls and the local officials will split the value of the condo once it has been 'recovered' in the course of due process and-or as a penalty to any settlement. stupid stupid move.

if the guy was renting he could have walked away from the condo with minimal loss and camped under a desk in his lawyers office waiting for the investigation to be completed and the final total of any 'damages' to pay his way out of the nightmare situation.

i don't want to rub salt on the wound but pinays are famously jealous and problems are common when a girl thinks the guy is 'hers' even if the guy told her a million times it's only just for fun. each additional girl added to the mix increases the headache and jealousy factor 10x. all senior members who spend time in the philippines know this it's no big secret. it never ceases to amaze me how many guys go to the philippines and lose all control thinking because they are in the philippines far from home that no one cares what they do. wrong.

his only ray of hope would be if the pnp keep the request for money between them and the girls and do not involve any officals. if that happens maybe only money changes hands and he can keep the condo. depends if the girl (s) want only money or they want revenge.

i only know one guy who has been successful with this kind of situation. maybe he can offer up a few suggestions.

[quote=mc don;1252460]better safe then sorry. it seems her contacts are real. no point bargaining with her if she has already spoken to the cops they will want their piece of the pie if she is baffling then she can turn on your friend anytime anyway. she has photos, i say time to skip town and change phone numbers. plenty more fish in the sea.[/quote]skipping town will do the guy no good. he owns the condo and now the pnp knows who he is. skipping town and changing numbers is like burying your head in the sand and looking for more women is the last thing i would be doing.

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88;1252496]. but pinays are famously jealous .[/QUOTE]And not to rub it in too, Pinays are famously known to hyper multiply their imaginations. Including one who claimed that she sleeps with the President's head bodyguard and all. All the while when she is living in a shanty town in Tondo!

Oh, I have also heard and started to believe a lot of Pinay fantasies. Like how they make people disappear, and that they can destroy people. Of course, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, but not to the extent that a pinay make believes.

Oh wait, don't bother asking them, they believe their own crap so much they can pass lie detectors!

Maybe things are not so bad as it seems.

Best advice is to skip town and quickly appoint a notary public to sell the property to somebody or transfer ownership to if hell happens to cross path, the losses are diminished.

Its been about 6 years since my last trip to the philippins. My last trip was also my only trip stayed in Makati at Shangri la.

Had a ball lots of girls, great food and booze.

I am a regular in Thailand but the Philippins is a bit new to me. I have ready a fair bit of the forum some old and some new posts. I need a bit of a hand I was tossing up between Angeles or back to Makati. I am tending towards Makati only because I have been before. Would stay at Shagri la or new world renaissance.

Are these hotels girl friendly last time I had a problem with security getting a few girls back to Shangri la but did get in once I paid surcurity.

Want are the current prices for LT 3000?

I can not remember if you need to pay a bar find like Thailand if so what is the cost for memory I think I had to buy 10 drinks last time?

I will be in town only for 4 nights all the help from members would be great.

Sorry if I asked too much I have been reading threads for the last 4 hours or so and I'm just to bloody busy as I fly to Bangkok tomorrow. The Philippins was added to my trip this morning by my boss so I didn't have a option but to ask.

This trip I'm Bangkok to the 22nd March then Guangzhou China to the 29th the Philippines to 2nd April then back to Bangkok for a night. Thank god for Viagra,

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88; 1252496]GL,

Skipping town will do the guy no good. He owns the condo and now the PNP knows who he is. Skipping town and changing numbers is like burying your head in the sand and looking for more women is the last thing I would be doing.[/QUOTE]Police have got very short attention spans. Think of National Geographic and the hyenas. They don't stay long when theres fresh meat to follow. If he skips town for a month or so maybe would be ok. Unless of course police have told security staff in his condo to give them a call if they see him. Either way, he should keep a few open tickets ready and handy.

Some advise from the regulars please.

I am planning to finally make my first trip to Manila and Cebu.

Firstly let me thank all the regulars for their contributions. You paint an amazing picture.

I have mongered in several different countries.

But after a few trips to KL, Malaysia I ended up with one trip.

Where it was so hot and humid during the day.

That I spent every day in my room under the ac fan just trying to survive.

The cost of the trip to the Philippines is a lot for me (I just don't earn what many regulars earn)

So I want to be sure that the time that I spend there is used to the maximum.

Please advise on the best time of year to monger based on temperature.

And availabilty of lower priced girls. Is there a time of year when there is less competition from other mongers.

Or is this not an issue at any time of the year.

And is there a time of year when room prices and flights are lower.

Thanking you in advance

[QUOTE=GregLondon;1252045]Obviously there are many lessons to be learned from this story both for my friend and others but would appreciate any constructive advice and shared experience to the board or via PM.[/QUOTE]I did meet a jailbaiter once, who showed up to our date with a surprise "friend" who looked about 14 year old. Within 5 minutes of meeting she was very insistent that I should invite this minor to my house cause "she was interested in poriners". She brought a digicam for the occasion, as well as the cam in her phone. How much more obvious can it get?

Don't bring riffraff to your house, especially one that is your property!

Are you kidding me? Seems like you just described one of my Pinay in Thailand. Grown ass woman 31 years old with a hell of an imagination. Even when the gig is up she still swears by her lies.

[QUOTE=Econo Tech; 1252507]And not to rub it in too, Pinays are famously known to hyper multiply their imaginations. Including one who claimed that she sleeps with the President's head bodyguard and all. All the while when she is living in a shanty town in Tondo!

Oh, I have also heard and started to believe a lot of Pinay fantasies. Like how they make people disappear, and that they can destroy people. Of course, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, but not to the extent that a pinay make believes.

Oh wait, don't bother asking them, they believe their own crap so much they can pass lie detectors![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Dodger1308; 1252859]Some advise from the regulars please. I am planning to finally make my first trip to Manila and Cebu.

I have mongered in several different countries. But after a few trips to KL, Malaysia I ended up with one trip Where it was so hot and humid during the day That I spent every day in my room under the ac fan just trying to survive.

The cost of the trip to the Philippines is a lot for me (I just don't earn what many regulars earn) So I want to be sure that the time that I spend there is used to the maximum. Please advise on the best time of year to monger based on temperature.[/QUOTE]If you want to visit the Philippines at a time of the year when the temperature is cooler my advice would be to visit September through December. Generally cooler with more rain and clouds. The temperature varies according to what part of the Philippines you will visit, but keep in mind the Philippines has a tropical climate and heat and high humidity are possible year round. Summer months in the Philippines are March-May, rainy season June-November.

[quote]And availabilty of lower priced girls. Is there a time of year when there is less competition from other mongers.

Or is this not an issue at any time of the year.[/QUOTE]WTF do you mean by "lower priced girls"? Bars and freelance girls do not reduce prices at any time just because there might be less guys around. Just doesn't happen so no cheap charlie sales for you. Full price all year round. If you can spend the money for airfare and a hotel room you can afford the girls. If you come to the Philippines and expect to get free p*ssy better stay home with your dick in your hand, problem solved. The rates for girls are generally cheaper than in some other places but certainly not free. Sorry to burst your cheap charlie bubble, but there are no coupons in mongering.

[quote]And is there a time of year when room prices and flights are lower.[/quote]Room prices are always expensive (over priced) in the Philippines with some increased prices during festivals, Chinese New Year and during the supposed foreigner 'high season' which is roughly the middle of December to the end of March when colder weather moves into North America and parts of Europe.

Flights are always expensive and you neglected to post your location (North America, Europe, other SEA country). If you are flying to the Philippines from NA there are two softer shoulder seasons, mid-March to late May and another September to early December when some lower airfare prices can be had.

Just wondering what smart phone or tablet you used to post your report. It has hard returns throughout and a few guys here have been trying to figure out if the cause is a specific brand of electronics or maybe you are 'return happy'.

[QUOTE=GregLondon; 1252045]Has anyone had any experience with girls with police connections?

A friend has a problem derived from living with a number of Phil GFs in a condo in Phils with other girls visiting regularly. Two of them were becoming difficult and so he asked them to leave. This was probably not done as diplomatically as it could have been and one of them claims to have gone to the police and shown them a folder of raunchy pics inc 3 somes. All the girls living in the Condo were in their 20s but a couple of those visiting were 18 and looked rather young.

She texted the other girls to leave the condo immediately and they did along with my friend. Of course this could all be bluff, but worryingly he found that the previous day the relevant folder on his computer had been tampered with by the girl in question and she had also synched her iphone contacts with his laptop and that there were now half a dozen police contacts on his laptop. The other girl in question confirmed that this girl has several close police friends including one who was supporting her through school and she met them that night to tell them of the situation in the condo. When one of the girls used my friends phone to call the girl it was answered by a male who spoke good English and asked who she was, there was an immediate call back to ask whether he could speak to my friend but the girl reponded that he wasnt there.

Anyone with any experience of this type of situation and assessment of how serious the situation is and recommended courses of action?

Obviously there are many lessons to be learned from this story both for my friend and others but would appreciate any constructive advice and shared experience to the board or via PM.[/QUOTE]There are pitfalls in living with girl or girls. These girls obviously have nothing to fall back on. If the foreigner takes care of all bills they do not want to find a job. Once they start living with you cannot kick them out easily for any reason. Maybe best way is saying you are going back to your country because of an emergency and not sure when will be back. Once outside send some friend to advice the girls to leave since owner decded to rent the place.

Always be on the guard with even the girl who professes love. Scorned girls are dangerous in their own countries. Always can hire a real estate agent to sell or rent your place who will tell the girls to leave.

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88;1253014]Just wondering what smart phone or tablet you used to post your report. It has hard returns throughout and a few guys here have been trying to figure out if the cause is a specific brand of electronics or maybe you are 'return happy'.[/QUOTE]Very informative post Stroker.

Re these funny "hard return" posts. Guys need to realise that you just type out your post as normal and [B]ignore [/B]the words that seem to be split at the end of sentences. The software auto corrects that.

It just reinforces my opinion that very few guys preview their post before uploading. Even DS is guilty of that on his own forum.

If you preview it you will see the way it appears when you post it. (Guys would also see that when I D is posted it comes out as I'd)

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational;1252963]Are you kidding me? Seems like you just described one of my Pinay in Thailand. Grown ass woman 31 years old with a hell of an imagination. Even when the gig is up she still swears by her lies.[/QUOTE]No kidding.

Talk about a Pinay in Thailand.

I met one, and she insisted that she is a Muay Thai instructor there in Bangkok and every time she wins a fight, she is put up in Sheraton Sukhomvit to recuperate, by the bookies it seems.

Oh, she said she is from Mindanao and cannot go home, as she killed a girl in a fight-to-finish kick boxing contest. And while she had won 50, 000 $, the dead girls family decided to kill the winner and had shot up her 'convoy' and when she managed to get to Manila, she had been told that she must leave Philippines and never come back or she will be 'eliminated'

And apparently she is doing facial reconstruction, with the money she is earning teaching in Bangkok. Etc. Etc.

Or so she used to say, when she was in Singapore.

Remember guys that March 2 is deadline if you have to do an Annual Report.

Cost is 310 php. Takes about 3 minutes.

[url]http://immigration.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1432&Itemid=78[/url]

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1252814]Police have got very short attention spans. Think of National Geographic and the hyenas. They don't stay long when theres fresh meat to follow. If he skips town for a month or so maybe would be ok. Unless of course police have told security staff in his condo to give them a call if they see him. Either way, he should keep a few open tickets ready and handy.[/QUOTE]This situation is now (hopefully) resolved. The other girls informed the cuprit that my friend has left for BKK. After a day or two she called them to say that she had not really wanted to deport him just to frighten him and that she had now told the police she didn't wish to pursue, It also seems that the pics she took were less compromising than thought as they were old photos of girls she doesn't know rather than the new ones including her and the others. I am guessing she wants to mend her fences with the other girls now that the chance for blackmail has gone. Anyhow one of the girls recorded this admission on her phone so its difficult for her to mount a case.

What is clear to me is that naughty pics can be a real hostage to fortune with huge downside so if you realy need to take them ensure they are highly secure. As others have said having girls staying in an apartment can have serious downsides as they can be difficult to get out without making a bitter and potentially dangerous ememy.

Fellow mongers,

I am staying in a hotel which is specifically set up for mongers, including a sports bar with bargirls. Bf is 1500, long time.

Hotel is the Arizona, in Barrio Baretto, Olongapo.

G

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1253173]Remember guys that March 2 is deadline if you have to do an Annual Report.

Cost is 310 php. Takes about 3 minutes.

[url]http://immigration.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1432&Itemid=78[/url][/QUOTE]RK,

Can you post more info on the annual BoI report and how it all works? I do not currently reside in the Philippines but plan to in the near future and I am very interested in your thoughts and over-all experience on this subject.

Stroker

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88; 1253357]RK,

Can you post more info on the annual BoI report and how it all works? I do not currently reside in the Philippines but plan to in the near future and I am very interested in your thoughts and over-all experience on this subject.

Stroker[/QUOTE]Stroker. The link I pasted to the BoI website says it all.

[url]http://immigration.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1432&Itemid=78[/url]

There is not much more to say except that the so-called Annual Report is simply a need for all persons holding an Immigrant Visa (ACR or ICR Card) to report to the BoI within the first 60 days of each year so that they can be documented and the ACR or ICR Card can be checked against the holder. Cost is 310 php, and they have a special line and desk at BOI in Manila to handle it. There is no need to fill up any forms. Just hand over the ACR card and 310 php and you are done. As I said in my original post - it took me exactly 4 minutes because I asked a few questions.

I have done it meticulously each year so there have been no hassles. A colleague who forgot to do it last year and just rocked up this year thinking he would pay the fine etc ended up spending around half a day as he needed to pay not only the 2 years of fee (620 php) but ALSO a 5000 php fine and needed to go to a special line and also needed to pay at the regular cashier booth which had the usual 50 persons in front of him.

I don't know if they check whether the Report has been completed when an ACR holder leaves the country and if not whether it causes any hassles at departure because I have always paid mine. The woman on the desk told me that my report was documented onto the microchip on my card so I imagine thay can check it at Immigration when you leave.
In your case Stroker, if you are not in the country then you cannot pay it because it is due only between that first 60 days.

In all respects it seems to me to be another revenue-raising activity as there must be many people who don't know about it and carry on blissfully unaware despite Commissioner David warning "that those who fail to make the annual report will be meted administrative fines or face deportation proceedings".

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1253500]Stroker. The link I pasted to the BoI website says it all.

[url]http://immigration.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1432&Itemid=78[/url]

There is not much more to say except that the so-called Annual Report is simply a need for all persons holding an Immigrant Visa (ACR or ICR Card) to report to the BoI within the first 60 days of each year so that they can be documented and the ACR or ICR Card can be checked against the holder. Cost is 310 php, and they have a special line and desk at BOI in Manila to handle it. There is no need to fill up any forms. Just hand over the ACR card and 310 php and you are done. As I said in my original post. It took me exactly 4 minutes because I asked a few questions.

I have done it meticulously each year so there have been no hassles. [SNIP][/quote]RK,

Thanks for the link and the explanation. Personally I like the last line on the link. It states,"As for aliens who are below 14 years of age or 65 years old and above, it shall be the duty of their parents or legal guardians or representatives to make the report on their behalf".

That made me LOL. I guess it gives the 65+ group the option of having a rep do the paperwork for them, making things easier. I wonder if they get free entry at the movies on Sundays like the local 65+ do? JK.

[B]HIV-AIDS epidemic looms in Phl[/B]

By Marvin Sy (The Philippine Star)

MANILA, Philippines. All of the necessary ingredients for an AIDS epidemic are present in the country. 'With the current infection rate, around 1, 500 Filipinos need to get into anti-retroviral treatment (ART). This means that the country has to spend at least P45 million each year for the purchase of anti-retroviral (ARV) drugs for their life span, ' Sen. Santiago said.

She said that by 2015, the number of those who would need ART could reach 6, 900, costing the government P207 million to support the treatments annually. A full-blown epidemic would entail an annual cost of P50 million.

Santiago has filed Senate Resolution 658 calling for an inquiry into the alarming increase in HIV infections and the necessity of funding HIV prevention programs that include the provision of services to populations most at risk of being infected.

HIV prevention programs include HIV education, counseling and testing, diagnostic and treatment of other sexually transmitted infections, and access to commodities that promote safe sex such as lubricants.

Santiago noted that condom use in the country remains low while having multiple sexual partners is common.

The Philippines is now one of seven countries in the world with increasing numbers of new cases. The others are Armenia, Bangladesh, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan.

Santiago is also one of the principal authors and sponsors of the Reproductive Health bill in the Senate.

[B]200 new cases.

[/B]

The number of new HIV / AIDS cases in the country is nearing the 8, 000 mark as 200 new cases were recorded in a month.

The Philippine HIV / AIDS registry showed that from January 1984 to October 2011, a total of 7, 884 cases have been recorded; 937 of them had progressed into AIDS, while 339 had died.

In October, the number of cases recorded was 92 percent higher than 104 cases in October 2010.

Public health records showed that 97 percent of the cases were males. The median age was 27 years but ranged from 15 to 65. The 20 to 29 age group had the most number of cases. Fifty four percent of the new cases were from the National Capital Region.

The males having sex with males sector (MSM) is still the leading contributor of new cases, accounting for 85 percent of the new cases. Seventeen injecting drug users (IDU) contracted the virus by sharing contaminated needles.

Of the 200 new cases, only one case, that of a 27-year-old male, had progressed to AIDS. He was infected through bisexual contact. No AIDS-related death was recorded in October.

This year. 1,869 new HIV cases were recorded. 72 of which had progressed to AIDS.

Asked the long term prospect to go on the pill, her response was, can you buy it (embarrassed) maybe, so my question is, can it be purchased over the counter, or is a prescription required as the uk

[QUOTE=Col Law;1256448]Asked the long term prospect to go on the pill, her response was, can you buy it (embarrassed) maybe, so my question is, can it be purchased over the counter, or is a prescription required as the uk[/QUOTE]Any pharmacy will provide.

[QUOTE=Col Law;1256448]Asked the long term prospect to go on the pill, her response was, can you buy it (embarrassed) maybe, so my question is, can it be purchased over the counter, or is a prescription required as the uk[/QUOTE]From what I have been told you can get it over the counter at any Mercury drugs as long as you have the exact name of the drug written down on a small piece of paper. Also best to include both the name brand for the drug and the generic brand. It's cheaper to get the generic but be careful, sometimes the pharmacist will see you are a foreigner and tell you they only have the much more expensive brand in stock. That has happened to me several times when buying cream or antibiotics and I just tell them no I do not want that brand and return to the same pharmacy the next day. I get served by someone else and magically the generic brand is available at a much cheaper price.

I have never bought the pill from a pharmacy in the Philippines but know girls who do and they told me they don't need a doctor's paper to buy it, but maybe they ORIGINALLY had to get a doc's paper and now the pharmacy knows them so they do not need the paper. Avoid Watsons at all cost and if you are turned down at one Mercury go to another.

Also just a cautionary tale. The first girl I came to the Philippines to meet many years ago told me it was ok to have sex with her because she was taking the pill. I questioned her about it and she admitted she only took one pill one time and it was a week before we met! These girls have no sex education and no idea how things work. Be careful! Unless she stays with you every day and you watch her take the pill everyday at the same time I would not believe the woman if she told me she took it. Some women only want a baby with blue eyes, or they want the steady monthly income of having a baby with a western guy might provide. Be careful x2!

I asked for Yasmin at both chains in Ayala Mall and was told no problem.

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88;1256491]These girls have no sex education and no idea how things work.[/QUOTE]So this Filipino couple have had eight children in seven years. They go to the doctor and the doctor prescribes the pill. Three months later they come back and the woman is pregnant again. "Didn't you use the pills?" the doctor inquires. "Yes but you must have given us the wrong size because they kept falling out." The doctor sighs at their ignorance and prescribes the diaphragm. Three months later they come back and the woman is pregnant again. "Didn't you use the diaphragm?" "Sometimes but I hated eating that jelly. It's so bitter." The doctor sighs and gives them condoms. Three months later they come back and the woman is pregnant again. "Didn't you wear the condoms?" the doctor asks the man. "Yes, I did, but after four days I had to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] so bad I cut a hole in the end of it."

The doctor thinks and thinks about what he can do that will get through to these simple, humble people. Finally he says to the woman ,"Every night when you go to bed I want you to put your feet in a ten gallon bucket." The woman ponders this for a bit and then the light goes on and she smiles and nods. Three months later they come back and the woman is pregnant again."Didn't you put your feet in the ten gallon bucket?" the doctor queries.

"Well, we didn't have a ten gallon bucket but I used two five gallon buckets."

[QUOTE=Dickhead;1256510]So this Filipino couple have had eight children in seven years. They go to the doctor and the doctor prescribes the pill. "Well, we didn't have a ten gallon bucket but I used two five gallon buckets."[/QUOTE]Ah thats a good one!

I chatted with a girl recently that told me she had 16 Siblings! She makes it 17. No shit! All with the same parents. WTF?

Thats like two soccer teams right?

I told her that her Dad should be castrated!

She giggled and agreed. Then she asked. You have wife sir?

[QUOTE=Tally Wacker; 1256551]Ah thats a good one!

I chatted with a girl recently that told me she had 16 Siblings! She makes it 17. No shit! All with the same parents. WTF?

Thats like two soccer teams right?

I told her that her Dad should be castrated!

She giggled and agreed. Then she asked. You have wife sir?[/QUOTE]The one question that will stump every Filipina is,"How many cousins do you have?" When I tell them that I have three in total, they express complete disbelief. Meanwhile the population keeps exploding and the Babe supply keeps coming our way.

[QUOTE=Dickhead;1256510]. "Well, we didn't have a ten gallon bucket but I used two five gallon buckets."[/QUOTE]Nice one.

My GF was laughing. When I told about it. Didn't help that she is a Gyn Nurse. LOL.

She has too many horror stories, including girls claiming that the man was 'strong' or 'well, she came too many times' as excuses for getting pregnant.

[QUOTE=Col Law;1256448]Asked the long term prospect to go on the pill, her response was, can you buy it (embarrassed) maybe, so my question is, can it be purchased over the counter, or is a prescription required as the uk[/QUOTE]Trust pills. 50 PHP for one box.

I buy them all the time without any prescription. 6+6 contains the same amount of Levonorgestrel (1500 micro grams) that one will get in a so called day after pill / emergency pill. The girl often gets sick but better than getting pregnant if you forgot to pull out t-rex.

B.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1257505]Trust pills. 50 PHP for one box.

I buy them all the time without any prescription. 6+6 contains the same amount of Levonorgestrel (1500 micro grams) that one will get in a so called day after pill / emergency pill. The girl often gets sick but better than getting pregnant if you forgot to pull out t-rex.

B.[/QUOTE]If she is your long term squeeze, go for Depo Provera, not OTC, but through a doctor. 3 months of no frills clearance. .

Of course, I had the fun of telling a girl what is was and then took her to a doctor. Being a bar girl, she lost her inhibition and started to free-range. Course, I forgot to tell her that it is only effective for 3 months. And I quietly moved on.

No clue what transpired subsequently.

[QUOTE=Econo Tech;1257631]If she is your long term squeeze, go for Depo Provera[/QUOTE]Thank you.

I did discuss that with one of them some time ago, but it feel through because she did not like needles and I could not be bothered to write more words in the chat. I think I will suggest depo next time for one of the preferred providers because she does not feel so dandy after eating the Trust pills. I just hope she did not misunderstand me and swallowed 6+6 Trust condoms instead. :/

Barba.

I flew direct to General Santos City, following a 5 hour layover in Manila. Gensan is dead for mongers. Fortunately I have a gf there. Unfortunately after two weeks of sex with the same woman I gave in to my monger desires and fucked my gf s sister, and was caught in the act. While in Gensan I visited Discorama, the place was dead, not even a bar tender. I alo visited Babes Bar which was also dead. There is a KTV bar on the first floor of the building housing Babes. I wandered out for a late night smoke and encountered as table full of KTV girls, a couple of hotties, but for the most part below 5 on the 10 scale. I survived the (please sir we have no money for transportation) pitch, and even waved off a bargain BJ in the nearby mens room. I spent two enjoyable weeks in rural south mindinao, departing a few days ahead of schedule due to the sis fuck.

I arrived in Manila around 5 on Tuesday March 6, I walked down to MBC and chat with Mavel, not so pretty but a real sweetie. I was too tired to waste money on a girl so I walked home alone, and got mugged. Wednesday was spent at the emergency room. Thursday morning I walked the long way to MBC. I sat at the bar for a coffee. Two girls plopped down on either side and made their pitch. They were not my first choice, but I decided to roll with the flow. We walked to a barber shop where I got a shave, then into Robinsons where I bought each a dress for 800 php. I overwhelmed them with kindness and our time together back in my hotel was great. I first fucked the younger prettier girl, we both came well. Later the older, gal exited the jaccuzi tub and joined me on the bed, where the younger gal had dozed off. E proceeded to have great sex. I opted for a condom with each as they appeared to have high mileage. We ordered room service lunch which they departed, and I believe all 3 of us was happy.

I am tied of typing, to be continued.

FBA's post re HIV / AIDS in the Phils is fascinating reading.

I compare it with my country, Australia, which is highly educated, lots of sex education, high condom usage rate.

The population of the Phils is about 5 times that of Australia. 100 million against 20 million.

Phils. 200 reported cases in one month, that is, about 2 cases per mo per million. Australia about 100, that is, about 5 cases per mo per million. That is Australian rate of infection is about 250% that of the Phils.

Phils. 85% are among homosexuals. Australia is a bit higher.

But 85% of the 200 is 170. So 30 to be accounted for. 17 contracted through intravenous drug usage. A bit lower that Australia. So 13 from heterosexual sex, that is, about 0. 13 per million per month. Australian rate is about 5 per year, which is aout 0. 02 per million per mo.

So what do these numbers show?

First, that this is a typical government / media beat up. If the Phils is headed for an epidemic, then, at 250% times the infection rate of the Phils, Australia must be in the grip of a full blown epidemic. But is this what we hear from the Aust govt? Of course not. So the Phils report is very useul, but the headline is typical scare mongering. Or a ploy to get more funding from overseas to fight the problem (more likely)

Second, the infection rates per million per month demonstrate that the risk of HIV infection from bareback sex is negligible. Far less than the risk of death while making your breakfast in your kitchen in the morning.

Interesting,

Gangles

[QUOTE=Fast Buck Artist; 1256269][B]HIV-AIDS epidemic looms in Phl[/B]

By Marvin Sy (The Philippine Star)

MANILA, Philippines. All of the necessary ingredients for an AIDS epidemic are present in the country. 'With the current infection rate, around 1, 500 Filipinos need to get into anti-retroviral treatment (ART). This means that the country has to spend at least P45 million each year for the purchase of anti-retroviral (ARV) drugs for their life span, ' Sen. Santiago said.

She said that by 2015, the number of those who would need ART could reach 6, 900, costing the government P207 million to support the treatments annually. A full-blown epidemic would entail an annual cost of P50 million.

Santiago has filed Senate Resolution 658 calling for an inquiry into the alarming increase in HIV infections and the necessity of funding HIV prevention programs that include the provision of services to populations most at risk of being infected.

HIV prevention programs include HIV education, counseling and testing, diagnostic and treatment of other sexually transmitted infections, and access to commodities that promote safe sex such as lubricants.

Santiago noted that condom use in the country remains low while having multiple sexual partners is common.

The Philippines is now one of seven countries in the world with increasing numbers of new cases. The others are Armenia, Bangladesh, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan.

Santiago is also one of the principal authors and sponsors of the Reproductive Health bill in the Senate.

[B]200 new cases.

[/B]

The number of new HIV / AIDS cases in the country is nearing the 8, 000 mark as 200 new cases were recorded in a month.

The Philippine HIV / AIDS registry showed that from January 1984 to October 2011, a total of 7, 884 cases have been recorded; 937 of them had progressed into AIDS, while 339 had died.

In October, the number of cases recorded was 92 percent higher than 104 cases in October 2010.

Public health records showed that 97 percent of the cases were males. The median age was 27 years but ranged from 15 to 65. The 20 to 29 age group had the most number of cases. Fifty four percent of the new cases were from the National Capital Region.

The males having sex with males sector (MSM) is still the leading contributor of new cases, accounting for 85 percent of the new cases. Seventeen injecting drug users (IDU) contracted the virus by sharing contaminated needles.

Of the 200 new cases, only one case, that of a 27-year-old male, had progressed to AIDS. He was infected through bisexual contact. No AIDS-related death was recorded in October.

This year. 1,869 new HIV cases were recorded. 72 of which had progressed to AIDS.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Wjmpsr; 1258977]I gave in to my monger desires and fucked my gf s sister, and was caught in the act. Departing a few days ahead of schedule due to the sis fuck.

I was too tired to waste money on a girl so I walked home alone, and got mugged.

I first fucked the younger prettier girl, we both came well. Later the older, gal exited the jaccuzi tub and joined me on the bed, where the younger gal had dozed off. E proceeded to have great sex.[/QUOTE]Hey great report Wjmpsr!

Can you eloborated on these points?

How did it go with the GF catching you fucking her sister? Was it a big blow out or did she just say hey what you fucking my sister for?

You got mugged? Can you give a description how it happened?

Guys, if you are in P I for longer than a fast trip, check out the discount deals available online through 'Groupon Philippines'. I just came across it while browsing online. Many of you will be familiar with this and similar online discounts offered in Western countries. Check 'Getaways' for info on resorts, restaurants, overseas trip packages, etc. Discounts range from 40-70. No, I am not 'shilling' for Groupon, just think it, and maybe other online discount ops, may offer some real deals to those interested.

[QUOTE=Gangles;1258997]FBA's post re HIV / AIDS in the Phils is fascinating reading.[/QUOTE]Very interesting post, Gangles. Thank you for putting this into perspective with facts and numbers.

Barba

I have been on the USA site for years, but I am new here and would like to explore what the rest of the world has to offer. I am partial to Asians and have begun RTFF. Recently I posted an add on Thai Love Links and Filipino Cupid (they are sister services). I put virtually the same photos, profiles and other info on both. I am getting almost no response on the Thai site, but tons on the Filipino site. Any comment as to why. I would appreciate it.

Some afflictions have a much higher prevalence in westernized countries. There was a thing in the news some years ago about it. Breast cancer, for example, is very prevalent in US, canada, western europe. I think I read that in the States: 1 in 9 women will get some form of it (that's astounding) ; while in neighboring mexico, however, the rate is negligible. The better your standard of living and access to health care, the more likely you are to die from a variety of things.

What hotel were you staying at and where did you get mugged?

[QUOTE=Tally Wacker; 1256551]Ah thats a good one!

I chatted with a girl recently that told me she had 16 Siblings! She makes it 17. No shit! All with the same parents. WTF?

Thats like two soccer teams right?

I told her that her Dad should be castrated!

She giggled and agreed. Then she asked. You have wife sir?[/QUOTE]This must be a record. I dated a province girl who was no. 8 out of 12. 8 girls and four boys. Surprisingly she said all her older siblings are married and she is next. She was 20.

Funny thing is she showed pictures of her sisters and none have resemblene to each other. I chided her saying her mother must be sneaking out of the house at night to neighbours.

She just laughed.

A farmer in Devon has successfully grown a field of vibrators.

Unfortunately, he now has a problem with squatters!

[QUOTE=Martybreger;1259157]I put virtually the same photos, profiles and other info on both. I am getting almost no response on the Thai site, but tons on the Filipino site. Any comment as to why. I would appreciate it.[/QUOTE]Filipina want to get the hell out of their country and Thai don't.

Just booked a round trip to manila departing 08/27/12 for $782 all fees and taxes included. I wasn't planning on a trip this year as I'm still recovering from down economy here but I could not resist that price. Typical value fares here are $1200 to $1300 or more. The sweet spot was for departures between 20th or 27th of August and staying 3 to 4 weeks. The lowest prices on either side of this sweet spot by a week or so were anywhere from $1050 to $1500. TripAdvisor seems to be the best search engine for snagging low prices. Once I found the low price I booked through CheapoAir; the airline is United to Tokyo and ANA Tokyo to Manila and the flight duration is 4 hours less than the last time I paid over $1200. WOW! This deal with United should effect any flights leaving USA 08/27 to Manila so if you're looking for a deal don't waste anytime since I would think these seats will sell off fast. I'm a newbie here compared to most of you, are they expecting a bad typhoon, earth quake or tsunami between late August and mid September this year?

Let me know if there's a better place to post this.

P. S. I just paid $4. 09 a gallon for diesel fuel and I imagine jet fuel is experiencing the same kind of increases; never expected to find a low air fare like this

[QUOTE=Wjmpsr; 1258977]I flew direct to General Santos City, following a 5 hour layover in Manila. Gensan is dead for mongers. Fortunately I have a gf there. Unfortunately after two weeks of sex with the same woman I gave in to my monger desires and fucked my gf s sister, and was caught in the act. [SNIP] I spent two enjoyable weeks in rural south mindinao, departing a few days ahead of schedule due to the sis fuck.[/quote]Correction, you now have an EX-GF in GenSan. Sometimes the temptation to fool around with a member of your GF's extended family can seem tantalizing but it's best to avoid those situations unless you have a clear p4p or NSA relationship. A foreigner caught fooling around with family members or friends of a woman that views you as her serious BF (You spent two weeks with her and met her family) could potentially end very bad for the foreigner. The danger zone should be magnified ten fold if you are caught in the act with a woman's sister in a place like Mindanao or some other less visited Province in the Philippines.

Funny how close you might have come to the nation seeing you on TVPatrol trying to talk to a reporter through blood soaked bandages and broken bones if your GF was raging mad and had an uncle who was barangay captain or PNP. *SIGH* I am being abit over dramatic here but it never ceases to amaze me when guys visit the Philippines how they leave there sensibility on the plane and sometimes they pay a price for it.

[quote]I arrived in Manila around 5 on Tuesday March 6, I walked down to MBC and chat with Mavel, not so pretty but a real sweetie. I was too tired to waste money on a girl so I walked home alone, and got mugged. Wednesday was spent at the emergency room. Thursday morning I walked the long way to MBC. I sat at the bar for a coffee.[/QUOTE]I know some guys on the forum complain about the filipina 'tards they find online, but IMO there are more then a few foreigner 'tards visiting the Philippines. Geess, you were too kuripot to "waste money on a girl" or a taxi and then as a result you got mugged on the walk back to your hotel. Ok shit happens, but then the NEXT DAY YOU WALKED BACK "the long way" to MBC! Shit you didn't learn anything the first time it happened so why not give them another go at you right? After all taxi's in Manila are sooooo expensive! So you saved max 100p a trip so that's max 300p! Seven frigin' US Dollars? How much did the muggers get? Alot more than 300p! I bet you even walked to the hospital am I right?

There are always times to be frugal, or walk somewhere if the weather and your environment cooperates for some excercise, but walking long distances through some tough parts of Manila make you the Kuripot King. I said it once and I will say it again, there are no coupons in mongering.

Also just a tip for rookies or guys who have no clue. Never under any circumstances announce or give out exact details of your arrival or departure on an open mongering website! That includes flights, hotel stays, dinner reservations, ect. Plenty of trolls, locals, potential government busy-bodies including NBI, PNP or others who have the means to find out quickly who you are. For personal security it's best to post AFTER spending time in a city and never give exact dates of arrival or departure. I am not paranoid, just an informed realist and it's basic common sense.

For example the noob posted flight details GenSan-MNL (exact date and time). Only a few direct flights daily and it would be a very easy thing for someone to narrow down the list of the foreigners who were on that flight and cross reference it to recent hospital admissions and-or his previous MNL-GenSan flight. Not too many bright lights around it seems.

I have a policy of returning some of the money that I have earned in the Philippines. I do not do this by giving money away, but rather I invest in the country through education and training.

For some years, I have been sponsoring a young woman through her degree, and she is about to graduate with a degree in Hotel and Restaurant Management.

So I am looking for another pinay to sponsor. However, this time I want to sponsor someone in a degree that adds to the expertise of the country, probably in science, engineering, architecture etc.

The last pinay I found by chance. The next one, I will have to find.

So I am asking for ideas on how I can connect with a pinay who wants to study these subjects, and who is looking for sponsorship.

Any Ideas?

G

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1259713]So I am asking for ideas on how I can connect with a pinay who wants to study these subjects, and who is looking for sponsorship.

Any Ideas?

G[/QUOTE]So I'm guessing your fucking these studious young women as well?

[QUOTE=Doingourduty; 1259464]Just booked a round trip to manila departing 08/27/12 for $782 all fees and taxes included. I wasn't planning on a trip this year as I'm still recovering from down economy here but I could not resist that price. Typical value fares here are $1200 to $1300 or more. The sweet spot was for departures between 20th or 27th of August and staying 3 to 4 weeks. The lowest prices on either side of this sweet spot by a week or so were anywhere from $1050 to $1500. TripAdvisor seems to be the best search engine for snagging low prices. Once I found the low price I booked through CheapoAir; the airline is United to Tokyo and ANA Tokyo to Manila and the flight duration is 4 hours less than the last time I paid over $1200. WOW! This deal with United should effect any flights leaving USA 08/27 to Manila so if you're looking for a deal don't waste anytime since I would think these seats will sell off fast. I'm a newbie here compared to most of you, are they expecting a bad typhoon, earth quake or tsunami between late August and mid September this year?

Let me know if there's a better place to post this.

P. S. I just paid $4. 09 a gallon for diesel fuel and I imagine jet fuel is experiencing the same kind of increases; never expected to find a low air fare like this[/QUOTE]Why don't you tell us where you're leaving from and perhaps we might be able to put your information in perspective. Geeeeeeeeesssssshhhhhh.

[QUOTE=Doingourduty;1259991]WOW! This deal with United should effect any flights leaving USA 08/27 to Manila so if you're looking for a deal don't waste anytime since I would think these seats will sell off fast.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Slippery;1259991]Why don't you tell us where you're leaving from and perhaps we might be able to put your information in perspective. Geeeeeeeeesssssshhhhhh.[/QUOTE]He did.

Thanks for the info Doingourduty!

I searched for prices flying from California to Manila in mid June and the price goes up to 1200 and 1400 dollars. I was hoping to get a deal like yours. Any ideas guys?

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1259713]. .

For some years, I have been sponsoring a young woman through her degree, and she is about to graduate with a degree in Hotel and Restaurant Management.

. .[/QUOTE]Along with several thousand other graduates in HRM Gangles. I hope your investment is worth it for her, as there are very few jobs available in hospitality any more and many of the courses are "mickey mouse" too (with a curriculum that includes how to set cutlery up on tables and how to fold table napkins. The stuff of a 3-day Techvoc course).

A few years ago all the jobs were in "Graphic Arts", then it was "Nursing" and now they all want to do HRM.

I spoke to the sales manager in Waterfront in Cebu a few months back and she said they had to stop applicants coming in with resumes. They were getting 20 per day coming in looking for work and they had no jobs for them. She also said most of them needed retraining anyway after graduation, and she was disgusted at the low quality of these courses which seemed to be uncontrolled and non-accredited.

I think your motive is admirable but you need to do exceptional due diligence on both the reputation of the proposed College / University and, more importantly, the quality of the training. A quick check of the required reading for the program may well shock you.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt;1260047]stop applicants coming in with resumes. They were getting 20 per day coming in looking for work and they had no jobs for them.[/QUOTE]<<a sales manager in Waterfront in Cebu? A what?

Can't find a Starbucks in Bahrain / Kuwait / Qatar / UAE without a pinay behind the counter. Market sorts its way out, one way or another

[QUOTE=Slippery;1259991]Why don't you tell us where you're leaving from and perhaps we might be able to put your information in perspective. Geeeeeeeeesssssshhhhhh.[/QUOTE]To Slippery.

If you read careful he said US that is not a bad price most airline just raise price last week by 60 USD because of high fuel tax, Cathay Pacific is about 1040 USD SFO to Manila with stop over in HKG for end of May and June to end of Aug jump to 1350 high season.

Fast Eddie 48

Sometimes I wonder about the twisted mentality of guys like TW.

For my present student, I think that I might have sexed her 3 or 4 times over the past 3 years. And each time at her behest. I think that she had the notion that she should repay somehow or other. At each of our meetings, the first order of business was money. She provided receipts for every item of expenditure. Second order of business was grades. She produced reports for grades for each semester. She is a pretty good student. Third order of business was future intentions, eg summer school, choice of subjects etc.

Then occasionally, she would make it clear that she was looking for sex. Maybe I was her only guy, I never asked if she had a regular bf. Certainly, she did not get pregnant, so that is an indicator.

My concern recently has been exactly the point that RK raised, that is, huge numbers of students, and relatively trivial standard of skills of the graduates.

I managed a project some years ago to improve the quality of outcomes of degree courses in geodetic engineering (surveying) in the Phils. We found colleges offering the course which had zero books in their library, and effectively zero equipment. Failure rates at the PRC boards was high. Some schools, like UP and Ateneo, offered high quality courses, and the results at the boards was about 90% or more.

We rebuilt the curriculum, so that graduating surveyors had the necessary skills to be able to effectively input data into the national land titling system. Plus engineering and topographical surveying as well. The curriculum was based on competency standards, which the team developed jointly. Three universities in Leyte took up the new curriculum, and their pass rates at the boards are now 95% plus. A great result.

So I have some understanding of the effectiveness of the tertiary education system here. Fortunately, the pass rates for every course, and every college are public information, so it is not too hard to decide which colleges will provide good value for the money.

So much for TW's inane comment.

G.

[QUOTE=Tally Wacker;1259975]So I'm guessing your fucking these studious young women as well?[/QUOTE]

So Red Kilt, what would you suggest then as a course of study? Given the dearth of jobs would a girl to studying Business with an eye to starting a small business of her own be a worthwhile alternative?

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1259713]I have a policy of returning some of the money that I have earned in the Philippines. I do not do this by giving money away, but rather I invest in the country through education and training.

For some years, I have been sponsoring a young woman through her degree, and she is about to graduate with a degree in Hotel and Restaurant Management.

So I am looking for another pinay to sponsor. However, this time I want to sponsor someone in a degree that adds to the expertise of the country, probably in science, engineering, architecture etc.

The last pinay I found by chance. The next one, I will have to find.

So I am asking for ideas on how I can connect with a pinay who wants to study these subjects, and who is looking for sponsorship.

Any Ideas?

G[/QUOTE]I have somewhat a simular policy although my aim is to help them get out. I actually push them to study a language as well as a course for which there is demand in Singapore or HK. I find it far more beneficial for both that way.

AS RK suggested HRM is a mickey mouse course and it will be hard to get a job as there is thousands of graduates. Simular to the waterfront, ABC in AC whenever they advertise on FB they get 1000s of CVs. I have seen some and I can tell you now the biggest difference you can make in that persons life is actually helping her do a proper CV.

As for how to go about finding a suitable student I guess you can always talk to a uni to set up a scholarship scheeme or if you prefer hunting then ask you current girl to get find someone already enrolled that might be interested.

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1260096]Sometimes I wonder about the twisted mentality of guys like TW.

G.[/QUOTE]It was only a question not a comment. No need to be defensive.

[QUOTE=David_33;1260209]So Red Kilt, what would you suggest then as a course of study? Given the dearth of jobs would a girl to studying Business with an eye to starting a small business of her own be a worthwhile alternative?[/QUOTE]Isn't there a book about this. Everything I ever learned about making money. I learned [not at university]

I'm having one of those week sin which I have little faith in the Phils education system. If they can fix that, then the 1, 000s of unemployed applicants can start making a difference to the country.

For instance, if I had a Phils business graduate coming to me here in Australia, I'm not so excited. If I have a Malaysian or Singapore graduate, they are far more likely to be productive Day 1.

As part of a much larger project here, we run an internship program that places recent college graduates into 3-6 month internships with reasonably large corporations, most of them in Manila. Most of the kids completing their internships are offered jobs by their hosting companies. Based on this experience, it appears to me that the most difficult requests from companies for us to fill are for engineering and accounting graduates. Relative to HRM, these are relatively expensive courses here, much more demanding than HRM, and with much lighter enrollment, despite the fact that it's much easier to find a job as a graduate of either course. The gap between labor market demand in certain sectors, and the courses taken by college students is wide, and it's led me to the conclusion that most entering college students fail to consider the relationship between the course they've selected and the eventuality of landing a job.

Many of the deans to whom I've spoken about this issue tell me that most of their students selected courses of study based on economics; often choosing the less expensive courses at the urging of their parents, because those are the courses that the parents can more easily afford. The problem is further exacerbated by the so-called licensing exams-for engineering, accounting, teaching, and so on-which only a small minority of graduates actually pass. Whether than phenomonon is a result of poor education or a desire of the professional communities to restrict entry to the sector I don't know.

Education is one of the most widely subscribed, and one of the cheapest curricula at the undergraduate level here. Yet less than 40% of graduates pass the teaching exams, and the government hires less than 30, 000 new teachers a year, so the odds on a fresh graduate obtaining a teaching job are minimal and in fact many try to get work in call centers. However, an estimate 90-95% of call center applicants fail the English tests administered by these centers, and the colleges apparently never think to offer mandatory courses in spoken English, so this avenue of potential employment turns out to be less an avenue than a narrow alley.

Given this situation, if you want to provide advice and support to college students, I'd suggest you advice them to take more technical degrees-in Engineering, the pure sciences, or Accounting-which will greatly enhance their likelihood of eventually finding employment.

GE

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1259713]I have a policy of returning some of the money that I have earned in the Philippines. I do not do this by giving money away, but rather I invest in the country through education and training.

For some years, I have been sponsoring a young woman through her degree, and she is about to graduate with a degree in Hotel and Restaurant Management.

So I am looking for another pinay to sponsor. However, this time I want to sponsor someone in a degree that adds to the expertise of the country, probably in science, engineering, architecture etc.

The last pinay I found by chance. The next one, I will have to find.

So I am asking for ideas on how I can connect with a pinay who wants to study these subjects, and who is looking for sponsorship.

Any Ideas?

G[/QUOTE]I've been loaning to women from the Philippines on KIVA. Org who are starting or expanding business. My goal is to "lend" am much as I've paid in P2P.

[QUOTE=David_33;1260209]So Red Kilt, what would you suggest then as a course of study? Given the dearth of jobs would a girl to studying Business with an eye to starting a small business of her own be a worthwhile alternative?[/QUOTE]I still think a lot of these potential "small business" operators will be better served to undertake a shorter TESDA course which is more focused on the actual skills needed.

So many of the tertiary courses in Colleges and universities are taught by people without any practical experience in rooms that have little equipment anyway.

David. I suggest that teaching (degrees in Education) is now looking like a worthwhile career to follow if a student has good inter-personal skills and the right attitude. Notwithstanding what GE says, the job situation in Education will change as the system demands many more qualified teachers with the shift to a 12-year school curriculum and especially for teachers at Early Childhood (Kindergarten) levels, the sector which always appeals to younger women.

The salary level has just (in Feb. 2012) increased so that a beginning teacher is now close to the 20, 000 php per month level which is the salary of call center operators without the crazy hours, a more stimulating environment and a chance to live nearer to home.

Accounting and nursing are the two that I am mostly interested in. Accounting I can assist them as I have lots of friends / ex-colleagues in the banking world while with nursing qualifications and some experience they are able to get a job in some overseas countries. To make a difference in place like phils I think the first step is making sure they can feed their extended families and making sure once they are out that they still retain interest in what is happening at home. Change will come from outside, the overseas Filipino workers need to fight for that.

To me science and engineering degrees are more male dominated field. I remember girls doing engineering courses in aus were always dykes, LOL maybe its just me hahahaha

Gangles, there was nothing inane about TW's comment, it was entirely appropriate for a forum such as this. If not then please take your theme to a do-gooder's forum. You did at least have the decency to "sex" her 3 or 4 times. Good for you.

I once sponsored a girl to do nursing, mainly because she was such a good fuck and she managed to get to me so that I wanted to help her. She didn't have the good sense not to try and cheat me for more money though and I stopped after a year. It was her brother that was persuading her to scam me for more so he could go to college at the same time.

I last saw her in Hong Kong, five years older than when I first met her and looking like it as she was doing the work I'd tried to help her get out of. She said sorry but it was too late by then, she admitted that she had hit the jackpot with me but screwed up.

If I find another good candidate then I might try and sponsor again but fuck and forget is easier and less heart ache.

[QUOTE=Joe Banana;1260473]If I find another good candidate then I might try and sponsor again but fuck and forget is easier and less heart ache.[/QUOTE]But some of us want to experience the wholesome experience LOL

That includes me too. Haha

I am a selfless educationalist and philanthropist as well. Despite my busy schedule, I readily give freely of my time, effort and money in the training and education of young ladies at my CS School of Advanced Sexology where they are taught everything that they need to know about pleasing and satisfying a man, namely me.

I issue uniforms and training aids free of charge and even provide audio / visual tools so we can review progress and I can point out and correct mistakes.

When fully trained, the graduate student is able to immediately earn a good living practicing the physical skills that she has been taught on my short but effective course.

Do you think that I should seek accreditation and maybe issue diplomas?

In a verey different modus operandi, I have found so many young pinay who have appalling lack of knowledge about sex that I am in the process of assembling a sex education manual, mostly cut and paste from sex education booklets online. It is close to being finisherd in the first edition.

I have posted it, in parts, to a number of pinay so far, to at least get their level of knowledge from zero to basic.

I guess that this could complement the CS School of Advanced Sex Education.

G

[QUOTE=Cunning Stunt; 1260486]I am a selfless educationalist and philanthropist as well. Despite my busy schedule, I readily give freely of my time, effort and money in the training and education of young ladies at my CS School of Advanced Sexology where they are taught everything that they need to know about pleasing and satisfying a man, namely me.

I issue uniforms and training aids free of charge and even provide audio / visual tools so we can review progress and I can point out and correct mistakes.

When fully trained, the graduate student is able to immediately earn a good living practicing the physical skills that she has been taught on my short but effective course.

Do you think that I should seek accreditation and maybe issue diplomas?[/QUOTE]

Thanks for suggesting the degree in accounting. I had not thought of that.

I think that the difficulty in finding a prospective student to sponsor, is that they will not be anywhere near a college until right on enrolment time, which is when they already have the money.

I guess that I need to get to them before then. My question, is how to reach them.

Maybe a Facebook Page?

A for fees, having sponsored the HRM student, I have found that ancillary costs for labs, field trips, and practicums are far more than for the tuition. And these costs are never published before the course begins. Very opaque.

G

I agree withRK re training for small business operators. The academic programs in universities are theoretical in nature, and totally hopeless in the practical issues of how to establish and manage a small business.

For 5 years I was contracted by the Australian federal govt and the Queensland state govt to deliver training courses in small business. It was the "Certificate 4 in Small Business Management", and it was very effective, very practical. Competenct Based. TechVoc ANTA system. Trainees who completed this course had a business failure rate of 20, compared with the national average business startup rate of 80.

With some modifications, it would be suitable for deliverty here.

I thnk that I still have all or most of the training materials.

G.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1260384]I still think a lot of these potential "small business" operators will be better served to undertake a shorter TESDA course which is more focused on the actual skills needed.

So many of the tertiary courses in Colleges and universities are taught by people without any practical experience in rooms that have little equipment anyway.

David. I suggest that teaching (degrees in Education) is now looking like a worthwhile career to follow if a student has good inter-personal skills and the right attitude. Notwithstanding what GE says, the job situation in Education will change as the system demands many more qualified teachers with the shift to a 12-year school curriculum and especially for teachers at Early Childhood (Kindergarten) levels, the sector which always appeals to younger women.

The salary level has just (in Feb. 2012) increased so that a beginning teacher is now close to the 20, 000 php per month level which is the salary of call center operators without the crazy hours, a more stimulating environment and a chance to live nearer to home.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie 48; 1260065]To Slippery.

If you read careful he said US that is not a bad price most airline just raise price last week by 60 USD because of high fuel tax, Cathay Pacific is about 1040 USD SFO to Manila with stop over in HKG for end of May and June to end of Aug jump to 1350 high season.

Fast Eddie 48[/QUOTE]My attention span is not lost in 5 or 6 sentences. If you look carefully, USA is quite a large country and air fares from different departure points vary in price by as much as $500 00 or more. That's alot of money and that's why I remarked as I did.

[QUOTE=Cunning Stunt; 1260486]I am a selfless educationalist and philanthropist as well. Despite my busy schedule, I readily give freely of my time, effort and money in the training and education of young ladies at my CS School of Advanced Sexology where they are taught everything that they need to know about pleasing and satisfying a man, namely me.

Do you think that I should seek accreditation and maybe issue diplomas?[/QUOTE]That is a worthwhile and excellent contribution to the education and training of young ladies CS.

Yes, I think you should consider accreditation and I don't think you could do better than using the KongKing Certification Agency. They are accredited to ISO-ISG standards and would verify through independent third-party inspection, testing and certification & verification that your services to the young ladies of the Philippines do meet appropriate quality, safety & performance standards. As principal of this said Certification agency I would make it my personal mission and it would give me pleasure to provide in person the verification necessary for your accreditation.

KongKing

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1260526]Thanks for suggesting the degree in accounting. I had not thought of that.

A for fees, having sponsored the HRM student, I have found that ancillary costs for labs, field trips, and practicums are far more than for the tuition. And these costs are never published before the course begins. Very opaque.

G[/QUOTE]G.

The additional fees are everywhere and I am convinced it is a way for the university and / or teachers to make money for itself / themselves as some of the fees for 'tours', OJT etc are ridiculously high when you know the costs yourself. And if you ask for a schedule of these fees and tours, the uni will not have.

One of the girls I met here in Manila, once told me that her friends sells this Chinese herbal viagra to people. Sort of like a home business. So, I ended up getting 2 boxes of 6 pills per box. Can't remember the color of the box, since I threw it away and put the pills in a small zip lock back. The capsules are in a temper proof sealed flow pack. You have to break the pack to get to the pill. The pill is a capsule, red and black colored pill.

Most or all of the girls customers are old people in Manila. It seems they are too embarrased to to go to the pharma to get these, so they rely on her discretion. I think it is all for those side fucks they do.

Cost: 600 Pesos for 6 pills.

So, last night, with much trepidation, I popped a pill before a DIA girl (I am in Manila next 2 days) , showed up. I took the pill about an hour before she got there. Once she showed up, not only did I have a raging hard on, it expanded a little. I have taken Pfizer's Viagra before, where your schlong gets really hard and straight. This one made it really hard, straight and a little bulgy.

I did her, every which way, rested for a while, and did her again, and my hard on was still there. Never fucked that hard in a while. Where is the 5 hour energy drink when I need it!

We went to sleep, and got up middle of the night, and my dick got it's own life back again, and went another dound.

Woke up in the morning, and it still had a lot of life left. So, went one more round.

Conclusion: This Chinese stuff works. You got to ask the locals to get it for you.

Sorry to disturb the ongoing philanthropic discussion, but I was wondering if anyone knows when the BoI plans to increase the standard 21 day tourist visa to 30 days? It's an effort to try to boost tourism dollars and part of the "It's more fun in the Philippines" campaign.

I couldn't find an official news release on the BoI website, just some chatter online. Here is the reference I came across on the ABS-CBN website. It's dated January 2012 so I am not sure if this is breaking news (to just me?) or it's old news and I missed the info that was previously posted on ISG.

[url]http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/lifestyle/01/06/12/its-more-fun-philippines-new-tourism-slogan-launched[/url]

Anyone?

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88; 1260832]Sorry to disturb the ongoing philanthropic discussion, but I was wondering if anyone knows when the BoI plans to increase the standard 21 day tourist visa to 30 days? It's an effort to try to boost tourism dollars and part of the "It's more fun in the Philippines" campaign.

I couldn't find an official news release on the BoI website, just some chatter online. Here is the reference I came across on the ABS-CBN website. It's dated January 2012 so I am not sure if this is breaking news (to just me?) or it's old news and I missed the info that was previously posted on ISG.

[url]http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/lifestyle/01/06/12/its-more-fun-philippines-new-tourism-slogan-launched[/url]

Anyone?[/QUOTE]Update in today's news (but dated Wed March 21 lol).

[url]http://ph.news.yahoo.com/ph-to-implement-visa-reforms-for-tourism.html[/url]

But no date given. Just the ubiquitous "soon" which, given Filipino passion for time management, could mean ANYTHING as you know SA88

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1260837]Update in today's news (but dated Wed March 21 LOL).

[url]http://ph.news.yahoo.com/ph-to-implement-visa-reforms-for-tourism.html[/url]

But no date given. Just the ubiquitous "soon" which, given Filipino passion for time management, could mean ANYTHING as you know SA88[/QUOTE]RK,

Thanks for the info and the link. Yep I know "soon" could mean December or it could mean next week.

I almost fell off my chair LMAO when I read one of the comments at the bottom of the article. It's clearly posted by a member of ISG. LMAO Busted!

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1260526]I think that the difficulty in finding a prospective student to sponsor, is that they will not be anywhere near a college until right on enrolment time, which is when they already have the money.

G[/QUOTE]Apologies for revisiting the philanthropic dialogue.

I think you do not need to get them before they enroll. I have observed that many seem to enter the institution without any idea how they'll continue to pay the bills. They scrounge the money to make the initial payments to get in the door, but maintaining the finances to stay in school becomes a major challenge. And if they work on the side, their grades suffer and they risk dropping out. Anecdotally, I've met many young people who dropped out after a year or two, usually over the finances, but I don't know whether there are systematic data supporting my presumption about drop out rates.

So there are lots of Freshmen and Sophomore students in need of financial assistance. If all you want to do is help out a student, just walk in the student affairs office of any nearby university and tell them you want to offer financial assistance to a needy student. But I assume you are interested in tying some very specific strings to the financial assistance. What you're looking for is a work-study student. So you'd need to have a more informal approach. Maybe you could stake out a few individual universities and figure out where the student hangouts are near campus. Then spend some time there and try chatting up women. Without coming on too strong. Maybe an opening line could be,"I really don't understand how you students manage to find the money to take care of all the bills," and take it from there. This is not anything I've ever tried, so I'm just speculating. CS has often reported picking up students, but his modus is the occasional costume shag, not the ongoing work-study arrangement. But his providers are presumably the same market you might want to target. Maybe he will privilege us with his suggestions.

[QUOTE=Skip Kost;1260844]CS has often reported picking up students, but his modus is the occasional costume shag, not the ongoing work-study arrangement. But his providers are presumably the same market you might want to target. Maybe he will privilege us with his suggestions.[/QUOTE]Oh, I've sponsored a real student before; a 19 year old returnee to High School who I bankrolled for a year. But I would be lying if I said that I did it for purely unselfish reasons and I'm not into self deceit. No, I helped her because she was a tasty little morsel who let me into her pants on regular occasions. She got what she wanted and so did I so it was a win-win situation. I think that any ISG member who says that he helps a girl for purely altruistic reasons is either an outright liar, fooling themselves or an angel and I suspect there are not too many of the latter on this forum.

Thanks Kong King, here is one of my former students taking her oral examination which I'm pleased to say she passed with flying colours (mainly cream coloured and flying over her face!). Another successful graduate from my Advanced Fellatio Course.

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88; 1260832]Sorry to disturb the ongoing philanthropic discussion, but I was wondering if anyone knows when the BoI plans to increase the standard 21 day tourist visa to 30 days? It's an effort to try to boost tourism dollars and part of the "It's more fun in the Philippines" campaign.

I couldn't find an official news release on the BoI website, just some chatter online. Here is the reference I came across on the ABS-CBN website. It's dated January 2012 so I am not sure if this is breaking news (to just me?) or it's old news and I missed the info that was previously posted on ISG.

[url]http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/lifestyle/01/06/12/its-more-fun-philippines-new-tourism-slogan-launched[/url]

Anyone?[/QUOTE]I was frustrated with this news. The quote "A 14-day visa-free stay for Indian nationals who have a valid American, Japan, Australian, Canadian, Shengen, Singapore, or United Kingdom visa, the DOT said."

As I'm from India, What the F. Do they think we are not even worth 166 countries standards to be able to get a visa free stay in PH for even 14 days that we have to travel into one developed country to show how much we are worth for the PH. Its insulting.

Why would an Indian go to PH with this new hassle when Thailand, Hong Kong & Macau has 15, 15 & 30 day free visa on arrival for Indians and have direct flights from India. Obviously they don't want Indians or Chinese in the PH with the kind of silly restrictions they have on both countries. That means nearly 40% of the world population, the two largest populated country on earth is out of favor with PH and they think they can increase their tourism numbers.

I just don't understand what points I have to prove anymore to be able to get to PH considering the last scrutiny and hassle I faced in Manila airport. No illegal alien or unwanted Indians would make PH their home base, when Thailand, Hong Kong has more opportunities than PH. Richest Asian is an Indian. Highest number of Billionaires in Asia are from India and China. I agree, majority of Indians are poor, but even with 1% of Indians who are super rich that would be 12 million would put PH on the Map with tourism numbers that they so badly desire.

Now, here is the shocker. India allows Filipinos 30 days free Visa on Arrival facility which was signed when Arroyo was the president, it was a mutual agreement but so far PH has not honored their side of the deal and as they are saying now, they did back in 2006 with the word "SOON"

WR is entirely right, the additional fees amount to several times the costs for tuition. And my student could never tell me in advance when these were required, nor how much they would be.

My guess is that some families seriously budget for their children to attend college based on tuition fees, but in reality they later cannot keep up the flow of money for the additional charges.

G.

[QUOTE=Wicked Roger; 1260744]G.

The additional fees are everywhere and I am convinced it is a way for the university and / or teachers to make money for itself / themselves as some of the fees for 'tours', OJT etc are ridiculously high when you know the costs yourself. And if you ask for a schedule of these fees and tours, the uni will not have.[/QUOTE]

I am planning to go to the UK soon, to include some mongering.

I have done my research re RTFF, for the mongering. But while I am there, I want to buy some parts for Brit made cars.

Are there any Brits on this forum who can tell me the name of any of the big sellers of after market spares for cars in the UK?

G

"Maybe you could stake out a few individual universities and figure out where the student hangouts are near campus. Then spend some time there and try chatting up women. Without coming on too strong. Maybe an opening line could be,"I really don't understand how you students manage to find the money to take care of all the bills," and take it from there. This is not anything I've ever tried, so I'm just speculating. CS has often reported picking up students, but his modus is the occasional costume shag, not the ongoing work-study arrangement. But his providers are presumably the same market you might want to target. Maybe he will privilege us with his suggestions.[/QUOTE]"

I believe you are on the right approach here. I was also thinking about going to a student bulliten board where some might be looking to boost their income by posting jobs for babysitting, house cleaning and nanny type jobs.

[QUOTE=Tazdevil;1261181]I believe you are on the right approach here. I was also thinking about going to a student bulliten board where some might be looking to boost their income by posting jobs for babysitting, house cleaning and nanny type jobs.[/QUOTE]You guys should put up a booth on the campus and hand out sex education booklets to young horny studious filipinas.

[QUOTE=Tally Wacker;1261835]You guys should put up a booth on the campus and hand out sex education booklets to young horny studious filipinas.[/QUOTE]Clever response TW.

I know many guys here are having a joke about sponsoring students but I guess some readers might also be deluded and think that Skip Kost is actually being serious with his "staking out colleges and universities looking for students to sponsor".

This is NOT a sensible strategy for old (or young) , lecherous, touristy types to be hanging around colleges trying to find girls who need someone to pay for their tuition. You will very quickly be seen as a dirty old man. Remember, in case some of you don't know, that NOT ALL girls need a foreigner to pay for their tuition, and the possibilities of getting reported by one of the girls who is grossly affronted by your approach or your offer are fairly high.

If anyone seriously wants to sponsor a poor Filipino student (male or female) through a legitimate assistance program that does NOT carry the promise of sexual favors in return for your donation please PM me and I will put you in touch with a foundation of which I am a member. We sponsor the "poorest of the poor" kids through high school (for 3000 php per year) and if they show ability we extend the assistance to College / University for a slightly higher amount per year. You get to meet the student and the family and follow their progress closely through regular reports and letters. Every centavo that you pay goes to the student.

All administration costs are met by a wealthy US retiree / philanthropist who established the foundation and he has some other wealthy friends who also donate large amounts of cash to keep the program going.

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1261177]I am planning to go to the UK soon, to include some mongering.

I have done my research re RTFF, for the mongering. But while I am there, I want to buy some parts for Brit made cars.

Are there any Brits on this forum who can tell me the name of any of the big sellers of after market spares for cars in the UK?

G[/QUOTE]EBay would be where I would start. If that doesn't work try a google search 'spares (make of vehicle interested in)'.

If you are not too shy about group orgies, I would highly recommend trying a Lady Marmalade Party if you are in London. Fill your boots with 7 gorgeous (usually) babes with a maximum ratio of 2 to 1. Great fun.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt;1261960] You will very quickly be seen as a dirty old man. [/QUOTE]

Great! I'm a dirty old man (DOM) and proud of it...lol.

I seen this cartoon and thought you would like it

[QUOTE=Bonkers1;1262086]I seen this cartoon and thought you would like it[/QUOTE]That is so true!

[QUOTE=David_33;1260209]So Red Kilt, what would you suggest then as a course of study?[/QUOTE]IMHO I think this question is a matter of personality in combination with both the direction and quality of the education. I help three girls now, and they all qualified by being friendly, happy, warm, attractive, caring and reasonably intelligent. I do not pay all school costs for all, but pitch in substantially at times with both cash and hardware.

One is going to be a teacher and I think she will be quite good at this. In my opinion this is the best she can do given her mental ability and education. Not stupid but a weak educational foundation. She will be great taking care of the small ones.

One is an IT student, and she is quite gifted (in a contextual sense). I am sure she will get a job in some outsourcing company doing something that is to simple or boring for western IT staff to do.

The third will be a dentist and this is the smartest of the three. She is also the one that spends most time in her boarding house reading. She actually reads just for entertainment sometimes, and this separates her from 99, 9% of the rest of the girls I met. A smart geek with big tits.

My demand for any contribution is that they should have more than 97% in pass grades, or whatever it is called.

There is no way to know what effects this kind of sponsorship will have but I for me the girls hope and happiness, together with the sex and my own well being from helping the girls, is enough motivation to continue. It is a bit like talking to your grandmother with Alzheimer. No one really knows what difference it makes or if it is even worth the air, but at least it makes you feel good and it allows you to have some hope. There is something comforting in the notion that a positive moment for any human, is worth something in the greater scheme. Sure I fuck these girls as much as I feel I want to, but we are still happy and there is nothing cynical in our communication or relation. As of where to meet them, I met two online and one I started to talk to when I was eating. One girl was just 18 and 100% innocent. But a very happy girl that smiles a lot. One was (and is) 20 when I met her. 100% innocence here as well, but her learning curve is steep and she is already starting to enjoy to have something big inside of her little fanny. At least if I avoid doggy. The third was 19 when I met her and she is more experienced and frankly the best fuck if I feel like a little bit of performance. She is also the most fun girl to hang out with in the long run. In all the cases I think their personalities match their choice of education well, and in addition they are devoted to passing with good grades.

Gangles, to find someone who deserves your sponsorship would require field time in my opinion. Or references but it is more fun to find someone on your own, isn't it? If you have some defined criteria and are serious about sex not being a condition, I am maybe can bump some girls your way and then you can meet them all for interviews.

Barba

Headed to Bagio any tips on day time activity. Especially non pros.

[QUOTE=Member #3916;1262638]Headed to Bagio any tips on day time activity. Especially non pros.[/QUOTE]First thing you need to do is get the name of the place right. Bagio? It's Baguio City. So now you know the name of the place you can google it and learn on your own.

Newbies need to ask less, read more and don't expect others to do your homework for you. Di ba?

Next thing you need to do is pay Jackson $19. 95 so you can PM some senior members and ask specific questions.

RTFF Newb!

I promised everyone a feedback on my flight to Jakarta from Manila. Take into account, I booked my flights way at the end, almost 2 or 3 days of my date of departure. I generally don't know my scheduling until the last minute.

After research I decided to split my trip into 2 segments. Manila to Singapore and Singapore to Jakarta.

Manila to Singapore:

The best and most convenient flight was through Jetstar. I found the flight on Zuji. Com, then proceeded to jetstar. Com and booked my flight. For those unfamiliar with Jetstar, it is the Australian budget airline. They modeled their airline parallel to Air Asia. I think it is also partly owned by Branson. The flight cost $100, one way. With the extras, premium seats etc. Fees, it cost me $140. 00, one way. Departed at 10:40 from Manila (Terminal 1) , arrived in Changi at 2:40 afternoon. My return flight departed Changi (Budget Terminal) at 2 am, and arrived in Manila at 6 am. Just time to meet my morning session at the hotel.

Singapore to Jakarta:

I used Tiger Airways. Departed from Changi Budget Terminal at around 6PM. Arrived in Indonesia, Jakarta at 8:30 pm. The fare cost $60. 00 each way inclusive of taxes and fees. Returned on the 9 Pm flight which arrived just in time to catch the 2 am back to Manila.

If you book in advance, pretty certain the fares will be much more cheaper. Jetstar was excellent, and Tiger Airways sucked big time from ground crew to the flight. Being part of SIA, what a shame!

I will try Phillipine Airlines on my next trip.

[QUOTE=Cool Traveler;1262856]I will try Phillipine Airlines on my next trip.[/QUOTE]Depending on the day of the week PAL may not have direct MNL Jakarta flights.

Cebu Pacific do every day they fly. And they leave from the better terminal. And you can book more baggage.

Having said that, book ahead and PAL have some great discounts. Can't beat $50 each way inc taxes!

Times are pretty much identical at midnight out of Jakarta and 9pm for the direct flights from MNL.

[QUOTE=Goferring; 1263163]Depending on the day of the week PAL may not have direct MNL Jakarta flights.

Cebu Pacific do every day they fly. And they leave from the better terminal. And you can book more baggage.

Having said that, book ahead and PAL have some great discounts. Can't beat $50 each way inc taxes!

Times are pretty much identical at midnight out of Jakarta and 9pm for the direct flights from MNL.[/QUOTE]CP does not have flights from Manila to Jakarta on Tuesday and Thursday (all flights outbound 8:55pm from Manila). They don't have return flights from Jakarta to Manila on Wednesday and Friday mornings (flights depart at 12:30am from Jakarta).

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88; 1262666]First thing you need to do is get the name of the place right. Bagio? It's Baguio City. So now you know the name of the place you can google it and learn on your own.

Newbies need to ask less, read more and don't expect others to do your homework for you. Di ba?

Next thing you need to do is pay Jackson $19. 95 so you can PM some senior members and ask specific questions.

RTFF Newb![/QUOTE]What a charming fellow you are. Glad you correct my spelling and that you are so proud of being a "senior" member. Take you knowledge and shove it up your you know where.

And by the way I have paid my $19. 95 for the last 5 years you bone head.

Yours

I have been continuing my research into pinay anal through my most recent trip. I now make it a point to check if a / the woman will take a finger, or more, in the ass while copulating.

Only one outright rejection, all accepted with some careful lubrication and insertion. Some proceed to more than one finger, or butt plug, and others now regularly prefer an internal digital stimulation whils f*cking.

One pinay, Miss R, took one, OK, with quite a lot of grunting and huffing, so I slowly slipped in a second. By now she was panting, grunting, continuous mantra of f*ck me. F*ck me. So I proceeded to slip in a third finger. By this time my hand is distorted, and a bit painful, but she was right off the planet. So I figured another development, rolled her onto her back. 3 fingers still in, and proceeded to give her a very vigorous two finger G-spot massage. She was off the planet, howling, convulsing. By this time my anal hand had lost all circulation, so I slowly extracted one finger at a time, and brought us both back to earth.

She wrapped herself around me, very tightly, I guess just letting the sensation stay with her for as long as possible. Wow.

G

[QUOTE=Member #3916; 1263365]

And by the way I have paid my $19. 95 for the last 5 years you bone head.

Yours[/QUOTE]Well, then why does it say you are a Regular member, with only 4 posts?

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1263508]One pinay, Miss R, took one, OK, with quite a lot of grunting and huffing, so I slowly slipped in a second. By now she was panting, grunting, continuous mantra of f*ck me. F*ck me. So I proceeded to slip in a third finger. By this time my hand is distorted, and a bit painful, but she was right off the planet. So I figured another development, rolled her onto her back. 3 fingers still in, and proceeded to give her a very vigorous two finger G-spot massage. She was off the planet, howling, convulsing. By this time my anal hand had lost all circulation, so I slowly extracted one finger at a time, and brought us both back to earth.

She wrapped herself around me, very tightly, I guess just letting the sensation stay with her for as long as possible. Wow.

G[/QUOTE]Holy shi'ite, Batman! That left me breathless! A Field Report, in the General Info section? Warn me next time! (and post more haha)

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1263640]Well, then why does it say you are a Regular member, with only 4 posts?[/QUOTE]Westcoast I truly enjoy your posts. They are amazing! Asian Rain also and others!

The question that was asked was why I don't pay my $19. 95 not why I don't post. I believe you get to be a senior member after 25 posts regardless of if you pay the $19. 95 (Jackson maybe you should consider changing the rules).

With that said I live in the US and seldom get to travel. I am somewhat active (post) on the USA site in the Los Angeles, OC sections. I do have an opportunity to visit PI later this month and was hoping to get some hints pointers. I did not expect such an unfriendly response. Looking back at my post I should have toned it down.

Yours!

I am making my first trip to the Philippines in a few months. I have quite a bit of travel under my belt to Japan and China, but always have wanted to partake in the mongering paradise of PI. Many years in the hobby have made me bored and a little jaded with the standard short-term session with a pro thing. Honestly, out of the hundreds of encounters I've had over the years, I remember only a few of them. What made these special were at least one of the following: (1) exceptional beauty or body, (2) some amazing skill set way above the norm, (3) personal chemistry and emotional attachment that made it special. I'll have just a few days for playtime in Manila when I'm not working. The easy thing to do would be to hit some of the well-publicized bars. However, I thought I'd give DIA a chance. Here's my report.

I put up a profile a couple of weeks ago. I don't feel comfortable posting a real pic of myself for general circulation. Instead I found a photo online for a reasonable facsimile of me and posted that. I sent them a real pic after I got to know them, and all but one of them understood and seemed fine with it. I don't want to hurt any young lady by pretending that I have long-term boyfriend potential. I just stated that I'm there for a short time and just want to go out on the town with a nice lady. I got flooded with interest-maybe 30 in the first week but it has slowed down since then. I weeded out the ones looking only for husbands, those that were too old or too homely, and a few obvious scams. (The scams didn't show up until after more than a week of exchanging messages. These guys are good.) I also politely backed away from a couple who seem to have fallen in love with me. I have a working list now of 2 ladies in their late 20s. One admits to kids and one says she's a widow without children. Both are very attractive, and we've had some flirty video chats. I'm careful to keep away from explicit talk. They say that a lot of guys go right to the sex-talk or want to wave their privates around in front of the camera. Both of them seem to really appreciate being courted and flattered, treated like a woman. Still, it's pretty clear to me that I could expect a great time with either of them when we meet. The widow strikes me as horny and deprived beyond belief. I'm also working with 3 super cute babes in the 20-23 age range. I've been able to check out all of these women through Facebook pages and of course video chat. Again, there's not been any explicit talk, just flirting. Again, I'd wager that by the time I get there, at least one of them will give me strong signs that a payoff would be in order. I'll of course report back when I actually meet these women. We can see then if my intuitions are right.

DIA is not for those who just want quick action. It's very time consuming. I think it's for those who think the flirting and chatting is part of the experience and enjoy it. Personally, I like the idea of slowly over time building rapport and excitement, so there's a lot of anticipation when we finally meet. I'm hoping for something like a real girl-friend experience.

I do have some questions for the members who are old hands at DIA. I'm wondering if the women pretty much know that if they meet a foreigner, that sex is expected. The young ones I'm cultivating seem to need money. They are students or are looking for jobs. Is there an understanding that things will need to move pretty quickly to consummation without a lot of wining and dining? And is it a given that the young poor ones will receive compensation? The two I'm chatting in their 20s have good jobs, and I think are in DIA more for excitement than for money. I could be wrong about that.

Finally, has anyone used the Pinaylove site? I'm wondering if it's worth the effort. Thanks!

[QUOTE=Wazoo;1264327]I do have some questions for the members who are old hands at DIA. I'm wondering if the women pretty much know that if they meet a foreigner, that sex is expected. The young ones I'm cultivating seem to need money. They are students or are looking for jobs. Is there an understanding that things will need to move pretty quickly to consummation without a lot of wining and dining?[/QUOTE]How fast you move from first Hello, to taking of her panties depends a lot on how pro they are. If you are done with the KongKing sniffing phase, you reduce the amount of time needed. Because time is what it takes if they are not somewhat used to trading sex for money. They need to feel safe with you, and safety is familiarity. Familiarity comes through the investment of time. Nothing of this is relevant for professionals or what is often refereed to as "semi-pros" (that is in fact just professionals that still have a fairly decent attitude). They know the deal already.

I met a 19 year old chat friend that was quite pretty. Three-four kilos to much but nice face and good size tits. We chat a couple of times before I met her, and just for a few minutes so not a well founded meeting but I had time to kill and wanted to reload. After a 10 minutes meal of Kitten & Rice I asked her to come with me to see a friend. I spent about half an hour talking to my mate (another ISG member) and ten I asked miss teen if she wanted to come with me to the hotel to see the room, before her curfew kicked in."Ok just for one hour and no sex". I was going out later anyway so I did not care, but once in the room my little head took control and I asked her if I could at least kiss her. A lot of disclaimers and then a kiss. And another. And some tit squeezing. This girl never met a foreigner before and had all sorts of ideas about us (most where true) and she was very clear about not having sex. After a few more minutes of kissing and laughing I guided her hand to my Andros spear and helped her to take it out.

She was once again going on about not taking it in her little vagina and I said,"sure I promise we will not have sex, but you can maybe make me feel good with your hand for a while?" And she started (continued) to jerk my dick. Not good but she was a quick learner. After a few minutes it was time for the "try kissing it, baby". She looked at me a bit puzzled and I guided her head down to my cock and slowly helped her to suck it and jerk it at the same time. She was such a cute young girl learning to suck cock, so even if I was on my last days of the trip, it did not take long before I offloaded massively in her little mouth. In pure surprise she swallowed twice and then looked at me with glassy eyes and smiled confused. I made her "kiss" off some more cum, before it was time to get dressed so she could go home to her waiting mummy. While dressing we chit chatted about her not wanting to have sex on the first date because she only had sex once before and wanted to get to know me first. She apologized and I said "Oh, no worries baby no need to stress that. Sex comes when you feel ready for it". It was as if nothing had happened. She had still cum around her mouth, when she explained and apologized for wanting to go slow forward. I paid for her taxi, but since we did not have sex that was all she got. Next time maybe I get luckier. LOL.

So the moral of this is;

- Do not make the girl have to say "yes". Invite her for whatever stupid idea you can come to think of.

- Do not ask. Just do, and pretend as if you are asking.

- If needed, pretend as if she is not doing what she is doing.

- Once you are done, pretend as if nothing happened and make a date for the next time it is time to "look at the room". If you pay her, you pay for whatever else but sex.

Little miss teen will be thoroughly introduced to some more of the foreign culture next time we meet, but rest assure that "we will not have sex until we are serious or even married".

B.

[QUOTE=Wazoo;1264327]Finally, has anyone used the Pinaylove site? I'm wondering if it's worth the effort. Thanks![/QUOTE]Sounds to me like you already have enough on your plate. 4-5 possibilities should be enough with a few extra phone numbers.

I'm currently on Tagged lining up a few pinay for my next visit. 2-3 weeks of rapport building is enough I think. Enough for 2 dates a night, one early on which if it crashes you have the backup. If the former works out, just text and cancel the latter date.

Also, be careful of arrival dates. They always want to know exact day of arrival. I give them 2-3 days after my actually arrival and then bring them in 1-2 days earl. Saves them all trying to hunt you down on Day 1.

Have a great trip.

AJ

[QUOTE=Wazoo; 1264327]. SNIP. .

DIA is not for those who just want quick action. It's very time consuming. I think it's for those who think the flirting and chatting is part of the experience and enjoy it. Personally, I like the idea of slowly over time building rapport and excitement, so there's a lot of anticipation when we finally meet. I'm hoping for something like a real girl-friend experience. .[/QUOTE]Thanks for the detailed post Wazoo about your experiences and impressions.

I don't agree with your definitive statement that "DIA is not for those who want quick action." and I think some of my brothers in arms here will agree.

Your "softly-softly" flirt and court approach may (and may NOT) work but you will not know until you actually arrive and meet her in person (if she turns up).

There are many stories in the forum about guys who had pre-visit flirtations like you only to find that the girls backed out when they actually arrived or suddenly became different to the one that you chatted with.

Many guys (and you will read about it here on the forum) do not use DIA [B]until they actually arrive[/B] . They then go hard at girls who are online and close to where they are staying. Invariably they end up with a companion turning up within an hour or two of initial contact.

For those of us who live here (like me) , we have the benefit of using both approaches. I think most of us agree that you can start communicating with a woman too far in advance of your trip. Long drawn out chats / exchanges raise their expectations that you are very genuinely interested in them as potential partners. Filipinas are very romantic and your extended courtship may well raise a few perils for you if you are not at all interested in any serious relationships. I have no doubt that you have told them you are only interested in fun and nothing serious but they will disregard that because your intensive and regular contact / flirting with them is telling them a completely different story.

RK and Wazoo,

There is a thread on ISG Philippines dedicated to the exact topic you are discussing. It is called "chat rooms and pen pals", and has been pretty popular since I requested the new topic.

X

[QUOTE=X Man; 1264412]RK and Wazoo,

There is a thread on ISG Philippines dedicated to the exact topic you are discussing. It is called "chat rooms and pen pals", and has been pretty popular since I requested the new topic.

X[/QUOTE]Point taken X Man. I should have cut and pasted my response across to the Chat Room thread.

I don't know what Wazoo was thinking when he posted here in Gen. Info.

Probably the same as me when I replied LOL.

[QUOTE=Martybreger;1259157]I have been on the USA site for years, but I am new here and would like to explore what the rest of the world has to offer. I am partial to Asians and have begun RTFF. Recently I posted an add on Thai Love Links and Filipino Cupid (they are sister services). I put virtually the same photos, profiles and other info on both. I am getting almost no response on the Thai site, but tons on the Filipino site. Any comment as to why. I would appreciate it.[/QUOTE]You observations are normal, Thai women have on average a hell of alot more class. Pinays sell themselves way way short.

Thais ROCK!

PP

[QUOTE=Wazoo;1264327]I do have some questions for the members who are old hands at DIA. I'm wondering if the women pretty much know that if they meet a foreigner, that sex is expected.[/QUOTE]Nope, it is NOT expected. In my younger days I assumed it was, and invited out several girls without discussing the sex question beforehand. Often such encounters end with you entertaining and feeding the girl and her chaperones (tagalong friends who will pop up unannounced) and at the end of the night they go home, or even worse, sleep with you with all their clothes on!

DIA is full of all kind of critters, from curious schoolgirls with way too much time to waste, to single mums with no education hunting for prince charming, to hardcore prostitutes.

I met all types, at one extreme there are girls who are ready to roll within 5 minutes of chat, and they'll be naked in your hotel within 1 hour, and on the other extreme I met girls who would not take their panties off before seeing a shiny wedding ring on their finger, no matter how much they like the guy.

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups!
Do not assume anything! If you expect sex, discuss it before you meet up.

It has been mentioned elsewhere but a few guys have PM'ed me about the Easter break.

Just about everything will be closed on Thursday and Good Friday, April 5 and 6.

All malls will be closed all day. On Good Friday in particular, you will find that EVERYTHING is closed so you will need to stock up on supplies in advance.

The Government has proclaimed April 7 (Saturday) as a non-working holiday too (which means people asked to work on that day will be entitled to higher rates). Malls will be open on Saturday.

To add another note about Easter, this is the time of the year when all the trabahadores go back to their chicken coops in the province, so expect the interstate roads to be a nightmare if you are going for a trip. Driving out at 1am is recommended!

Wazoo, I have mentioned before that IMHO starting on DIA months before a trip is a terrible idea. As you have found out, you are running out of things to talk about and the girls are losing interest. I realize that a lot of forum members have nothing better to do than chat up girls on DIA and fantasize about their upcoming trips. This trip I put my profile up about two and a half weeks before traveling. Next trip I will pull that back to a week. I think that a little self control and waiting will give better results.

[QUOTE=Wazoo;1264327]I do have some questions for the members who are old hands at DIA. I'm wondering if the women pretty much know that if they meet a foreigner, that sex is expected. The young ones I'm cultivating seem to need money. They are students or are looking for jobs. Is there an understanding that things will need to move pretty quickly to consummation without a lot of wining and dining? And is it a given that the young poor ones will receive compensation? The two I'm chatting in their 20s have good jobs, and I think are in DIA more for excitement than for money. I could be wrong about that.[/QUOTE]I have been using DIA and another site to meet filipinas for my trip coming up in a couple months. I agree its very time consuming and can get confusing chatting so many different girls. I am the same as you in regards to enjoying the anticipation and excitement of building the relationship before you arrive. This will be my 3rd trip to Phil and I was very successful on my previous trips. Every filipina I met with I took on a date and then we went back to the hotel and had sex. I did not tell them I expected sex but I did chat a little naughty with them previously and gave suggestions and hints on what I would like to do.

Filipinas are very romanic and sexual so its almost a given that a sexual encounter will happen if they like you unless they are saving themselves for marriage or have another agenda. Here are a few things I do to increase the chances of sex on the first meeting.

At some point in our chats I talk about sex and explain to them that I'm nice but also naughty. By their response you can get an idea what their level of naughiness is. Even the good girls are horny so don't be afraid you will offend them. If they are a prude then you don't want to go on a date with them anyway.

I also explain that I will be bringing sexy lingerie for them and I want them to model it for me. Their response will give you an idea if sex is on the menu. I don't give them the gift of sexy lingerie until we return to the hotel room after the date. To me there is nothing more sexy than a hot young non p4p filipina that you just met model sexy lingerie in your hotel room.

I have 3 different catagories I put the girls I'm chatting with in.

1. Very naughty filipina! (I don't take these girls out for nice dinners or spend alot of money on them. I make it clear to them that we will fuck)

2. Pretty, young and open for fun. (These are regular girls that are not playgirls and are looking for a boyfriend and are open for fun)

3. Age between 23 and 30, Educated, Beautiful, Tall, No kids (These are the girls I'm searching for as a potential mate. I have not chatted as naughty with these girls because they won't put up with it. I have tested their naughtiness some but will need to meet them in person to see how it goes.)

thanks for everyone for these extremely helpful responses. i didn't know about the chat room thread-so my apologies there. i'll take a good long read.

i agree that i'm starting way too soon. originally i had planned to go next month so i started making the contacts. i got about 20 on my "possible" list and winnowed them down to about 10. then all at once my business plans ran into a major screw-up, so the trip got put off a few months. i made my dia account inactive, but i already had initiated contact with several girls. i sent them all notes and most bowed out. i'm thinking these were the semi-pros and pros who don't want to invest much time in me. but 5 of them continue to contact me for i'm and video chat: #1 is a super cutie about 20 who is looking for work. i think she's just bored. #2 is a young 20s massage therapist who is flat out gorgeous and a real live wire, but she says she's looking for a husband this year. #3 is a late 20s widow with a beautiful face and some obvious pent up needs. #4 is a late 20s single mom with a professional job. this one is not beautiful but is very sexy and has a totally sensual mind. she's the one out of the bunch i don't want to let go. she's also the one sure thing. she's already offered to on a beach vacation with me when i get there. #5 works in an upscale makati hotel frequented by a lot of you guys. she wants to organize my tour for me and has promised good deals on everything. she's not much to look at but is very sweet. i'm thinking that i should not stay in her hotel or i'll get no privacy at all. she'll be at my hotel room door every night when her shift ends.

so, my guess is that all but #4 will die on the vine, and i just hope i can keep #4 going without us both burning out before i get there. yes, you guys are right: i started too soon. and the point is well taken that if i invest months of video chats, i'll look more serious than i am. i should cool it.

thanks again!

[QUOTE=Wazoo; 1264661]T.

So, my guess is that all but #4 will die on the vine, and I just hope I can keep #4 going without us both burning out before I get there. Yes, you guys are right: I started too soon. And the point is well taken that if I invest months of video chats, I'll look more serious than I am. I should cool it.

Thanks again![/QUOTE]Sometimes I send them a message to say that I will be out on business for a couple of weeks and can't contact them until I'm back at my home. That gives me a couple of weeks break from the chat.

They think they have been in contact for a few months, remember that plenty of guys are just hitting the chat for a solid week and run out of things ot chat about, you can keep popping up every couple for weeks for 1-2 messages.

It is not good to put any kind of presure on the girl in your room. Light kissing should be ok. If the girl is adament about no sex do not force her to do BJ. In your room the girl may think you may get violent and might do it just to go out. But after she leaves you never know who she is going to call. She knows which hotel you are staying.

Some DIA girls are very naieve. She might have have been forced into sex by her Phi bf but when it comes to foreigners forcing there will be problem or extortion.

It is always better to talk about sex while chatting. Meet only the girls who say they will have sex with you.

Most of us are not into romancing, dating trying to get into their pants. We do not have time to waste on vacation. Except couple of times when I was thoroughly sexed out I had barfined " Cherry " girls in AC. Most sleep naked and let you play with them but there are some who will sleep fully clothed.

[quote=wazoo; 1264661]thanks for everyone for these extremely helpful responses. i didn't know about the chat room thread-so my apologies there. i'll take a good long read.[/quote]i agree. this whole discussion should be transferred to the chat room and penpals thread since it deals in depth with dia and all the associated issues that come with it.

[quote]i agree that i'm starting way too soon. originally i had planned to go next month so i started making the contacts. i got about 20 on my "possible" list and winnowed them down to about 10. then all at once my business plans ran into a major screw-up, so the trip got put off a few months. i made my dia account inactive, but i already had initiated contact with several girls. i sent them all notes and most bowed out. i'm thinking these were the semi-pros and pros who don't want to invest much time in me.[/quote]no that's not the case. when you sent your contacts a message informing them your trip was going to be delayed for a few months and you are unable to meet them anytime soon, most rolled there eyes because many have experienced that before.

you have to understand that of all the guys online only a small percent will ever visit the philippines. and of the guys that do visit, many of them get side-tracked with one woman or one city and often run out of time to meet all the women they contacted. the women are very accustomed to guys making promises and never following through. in fact most women are often genuinely surprised when you first text them from a philippines based sim."whoozz diz" is very common. even if you have sent several text messages explaining where you know her from and who you are most still do not believe it until after you meet in person.

[quote]but 5 of them continue to contact me for i'm and video chat: #1 is a super cutie about 20 who is looking for work. i think she's just bored. #2 is a young 20s massage therapist who is flat out gorgeous and a real live wire, but she says she's looking for a husband this year. #3 is a late 20s widow with a beautiful face and some obvious pent up needs. #4 is a late 20s single mom with a professional job. this one is not beautiful but is very sexy and has a totally sensual mind. she's the one out of the bunch i don't want to let go. she's also the one sure thing. she's already offered to on a beach vacation with me when i get there.[/quote]i think you need to do more homework with #4 if you don't want to lose her. she told you she's a professional but lots of things are said in chat that are not true. test her again and again and don't get too worked up when you see a beautiful woman on webcam. also most women want the rich foreigner to take them to a beach resort and even if she offered to pay it's just a way for her to try to get closer to you and your wallet. only believe it once she has really paid for you but that's not likely.

[quote]#5 works in an upscale makati hotel frequented by a lot of you guys. she wants to organize my tour for me and has promised good deals on everything. she's not much to look at but is very sweet. i'm thinking that i should not stay in her hotel or i'll get no privacy at all. she'll be at my hotel room door every night when her shift ends.[/quote]if she was caught in the company of a hotel guest where she worked, she would instantly get fired. even if she was off duty and even if she made some excuse to visit your room she would never risk her job unless it was a temp ojt assignment and it was coming to an end with no chance of being hired full time.[/quote]

I agree with what David wrote. I did that last 2 trips, 1 week before I go I would start chatting and yeah it work fine. I also had luck meeting girls on the day. I log on, my first msg is I am in Manila, I would like to meet you now, do you have YM so we can chat on cam? If she agrees after 3-4 min chat on YM I would arange a meeting and it always worked. What I did before the trip is select potential contacts in my favorites and then on the days when i want a dia girl I would seach for who from my favorites is on line

Before asking my newbie question I would like to thank all of the members, especially the seniors (no pun intended) , who have contributed to this forum! Although it can be a bit overwhelming, ISG is truly a treasure trove of information. I've lurked here for a few months and I truly appreciate everyone's contribution.

I've mongered mostly in Sex Prison USA as well as in Germany back in the 80's and early 90's – anyone remember the 'Gelbe Zeitung' (yellow newspaper)? For those of you not familiar with it, it's a classified paper that had a section listing pros, semi-pros, freelancers, horny housewives, etc. Since there were no pics, it was quite a challenge and sometimes a let down when you actually met up with the girl. But I did manage to find a few gems.

I am planning my first visit to the Philippines in May and I have garnered a lot of useful info and tips from the various threads. It is my intent to stay about 4-5 weeks and I'm planning to first visit Manila for a few days, and then Angeles City, Cebu City and Davao City (not necessarily in that order and possibly with a side trip or two. To CDO and Subic).

My game plan is to only book a hotel in advance for the first few days in Manila and wing it from there. If I understand correctly, May and early June is not the peak tourist season. I prefer hotels with air conditioning, a room safe, mini fridge (or better a kitchenette) , private bath / shower. I don't have a problem with typical 'hotel' or street noise and it would nice if the hotels had a pool / pool bar. Will I have any problems finding decent mid-class hotels, in the 40 to 90 USD per night range? Checking the regular travel sites like Agoda, Expedia, etc it looks like there are plenty of rooms available right now, but what about on short term notice?

Also, I came across a website –

[url]www.tingo.com[/url]

, they continually ping the hotels' server and if the room price drops they will automatically rebook your room at the lower price and refund your C / C. Their prices are on par with Expedia and some of the other major travel sites. The only info I can find about it says that they are affiliated with, or owned by, Trip Advisor. I couldn't find any reviews about it yet. Anyone here heard of them or used them yet?

I rarely fly Cebu Pacific unless I have to, but recently I've had little choice as the places I've had to go weren't easily accessible by PAL, which is my airline of choice. However the recent experiences haven't been that awful and I was starting to develop, if not an affection for the airline, certainly a dimunution of the dislike I felt for it in its earlier days. That was until I went to its website today and purchased three tickets-for my asawa and two young family members-to go to CDO, and then by bus to Camiguin for a few days in May while I will be out of the country.

According to the advance purchase information on the website, the one-way tickets were only Php488, thus a round trip should have cost less than Php1, 000 a person. Right? Not so fast Tonto. I had no problems accessing the site and checking off the tickets, the fares, the names of those traveling, and entering all of the other quasi-essential information that the airline seems to feel it needs. No problem either entering the US credit card information. What I didn't realize-certainly my fault for not being a careful reader-was that the list of supplementary "voluntary" extras-like seat selection, the ability to bring baggage for check-in, travel insurance, etc. had been "pre-checked" on the form by the airline, and that if I didn't want to accept these extra charges I would have had to uncheck the boxes. There is even a charge for the "privilege" of booking tickets via the web. Then of course, there are the taxes: travel tax, fuel charge supplement and VAT to name but a few. Imagine my surprise when, having purchased the ticket,s I saw that I had been charged about Php8, 600! That should havve been about $200 a today's rate, right? But wait, there's more.

Curious about the actual US dollar charges I went to my Visa site on the Internet and received the unpleasant surprise that I had been charged $215. Why? Because Cebu Pacfic, the "bargain" airline, had charged me at a rate of about Php40. 4 to the dollar instead of Php43.

So the good news is that the site was fast, accepted the card with no hassle and issued the ticket. However, it's a caveat emptor situation, and the airline tries to rip you off with extra charges at every turn. You can avoid this by being more careful than I was. What most of you cannot avoid is the final rip off of horrendous exchange rates. Next time, if there is one, I'll use my Visa card that's calculated in pesos on a local bank here.

GE

Flight Details.

Route Flight # Departure Arrival.

Cebu to Clark.

5J 608.

Mon 05 Mar 2012, 1700H.

Mactan Cebu International Airport.

Mon 05 Mar 2012, 1820H.

Diosdado Macapagal Internal Airport.

12/25/2011 12/27/2011 CEBU PAC MIGSSMA1. 6 PASIG. PASIG MAIL / PHONE - 5527 $55.78

Originally I paid 2289 PHP and it showed on my card as $55.78 which is a rate of 41.03 PHP=US$ 1. This included 15 PHP security fee. 300 PHP for fuel. 263 PHP Phil tax. 80 PHP web booking fee, and 100 PHP seat selection fee.

02/11/2012 02/13/2012 CEBU PAC MIGSSMA1. 6 PASIG. PASIG MAIL / PHONE - 8993 $4.19

I adjusted my reservation a month and a half later to pre-pay an extra 168 PHP for baggage overage (scuba gear). This time the exchange was 40.09 PHP=US$ 1.

As soon as I completed my reservation it showed an Itinerary Receipt with the price in PHP, USD, and the exchange rate used for the transaction.

As GE said, I have noticed airlines in Asia have things such as insurance and seat selection pre-checked when you make the purchase online and you have to un-check them if you do not want the service.

It looks at first glance that Cebu Pacific really ripped off GE for his 1, 000 peso fare to be inflated to 8, 000. I find it hard to believe.

When I am in the Phils, I fly Cebu Pacific much more than the other airlines, because of its better scheduling. The model that Cebu Pacific is using is pretty standard for all low cost discount airlines. That is, you initially pay for the seat, and that is all that you get. If you want more, then you pay for it. So if you are prepared to fly with only carry-on baggage, and sit where the computer puts you, and neither eat nor drink, then you do travel cheaply. If you want the extras, then the price rises.

However, at no time does the airline deliberately hide the costs that you are incurring. And at one point, it asks you to verify the data so far.

Also, the airline provides seats at a sliding scale of prices. If you book far enough ahead, you get seats at the lowest prices. As these are all sold, then the next seats are sold at the next highest price. Etc. If you book a day or two in advance, it is likely that you will be paying the full fare. There are lots of bargains out there for the flyer who can plan and book well in advance, and is prepared to fly "bare bones".

It seems to me that maybe GE has made his reservation in the same way that he has done in the past with full fare carriers, like PAL. These carriers assume that you want everything, and charge you accordingly. So if you are not carrying any baggage, you are still charged for it. If you do not want to eat or drink, too bad, you already pay for it. Etc etc.

So maybe GE was not paying careful attention to what was happening with his fare, and was not carefully reading the questions that he was being asked about which add-ons he did or did not want. Every step, every add-on is displayed, with the cost, and the option to buy or decline. So maybe he will be more careful next time.

However, I am pissed off at the exchange rate that the airline used. Maybe someone with some time to spare could choose one day, and go to each airline in turn and ask them what rate they are using for that day. It would be an interesting comparison. And would give some hard facts rather than our suppositions.

So maybe a good lesson for all travelers to be a bit more careful when buying tickets over the internet for a discount airline.

As an aside, Air Asia have extended that model to apply it to their chain of discount hotels. Tune Hotels. When you initially book a room, you pay a low price, but the room is all that you get, with towels and soap. If you want air conditioning, you pay. If you want TV, you pay. If you want internet, you pay. The rooms are small, immaculately clean, everything works, and the WIFI is pretty fast. And it is spreading pretty quickly across Asia. Some time ago, the CEO of Air Asia was riding with me, and he explained the business model. Pretty impressive. Starts with micro analysis of every source of costs, and devising the lowest cost way to deliver. Step by step. As he stepped me through it, I was thinking about the opposition, the full cost airlines. They are actually astonishingly wasteful, and the customer is paying for the waste.

Enough from me,

G.

[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1266288]I rarely fly Cebu Pacific unless I have to, but recently I've had little choice as the places I've had to go weren't easily accessible by PAL, which is my airline of choice. However the recent experiences haven't been that awful and I was starting to develop, if not an affection for the airline, certainly a dimunution of the dislike I felt for it in its earlier days. That was until I went to its website today and purchased three tickets-for...E[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GoodEnough;1266288]What I didn't realize-certainly my fault for not being a careful reader-was that the list of supplementary "voluntary" extras-like seat selection, the ability to bring baggage for check-in, travel insurance, etc. had been "pre-checked" on the form by the airline, and that if I didn't want to accept these extra charges I would have had to uncheck the boxes.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=GoodEnough;1266288]What most of you cannot avoid is the final rip off of horrendous exchange rates.[/QUOTE]If you got charged in US dollars, it's probably because you "forgot" to uncheck another box. It's the box at the end when the website ask you if you want to be charged in US dollars. If you leave that box checked, they will rip you off and give you a horrible rate in US dollars (Cebu and / or Air Asia does this).

But note that even if you uncheck that box, most Visa / Mastercards will charge you a 3% foreign transaction fee on the peso to US dollar conversion. A few credit cards (such as Capital One) will not charge you the foreign transaction fee.

We live in a capitalist world. It definitely is Caveat Emptor (buyer beware).

I fully accept the blame for not hhaving read the instructions on the site more carefully. I was in a noisy restaurant, had other things to do, and was in somewhat of a hurry. So the fault for failure to read is strictly mine. Gangles is also correct that I'm more accustomed to PAL and with its site, which probably also caused a lack of attentiveness on my part. So the bottom line is that I could have avoided some of the "extra" expenses by being more careful, though there was nothing that would have alerted me to the outrageous exchange rate. As I said in a prior post, next time I'll just charge it to a local visa and avoid the problem entirely.

For anyone who might be interested, the flight between Davao and Zamboanga (where I spent Easter Sunday) is now a small jet and it's a hell of a lot better than the smaller, more cramped propeller plane that used to fly the route. No complaints on the comfort side at all. Of course I realize that Zamboanga is not the destination of choice for most of the guys who might read this.

GE

[QUOTE=GoodEnough;1266692]I fully accept the blame for not hhaving read the instructions on the site more carefully. I was in a noisy restaurant, had other things to do, and was in somewhat of a hurry. So the fault for failure to read is strictly mine. Gangles is also correct that I'm more accustomed to PAL and with its site, which probably also caused a lack of attentiveness on my part. So the bottom line is that I could have avoided some of the "extra" expenses by being more careful, though there was nothing that would have alerted me to the outrageous exchange rate. As I said in a prior post, next time I'll just charge it to a local visa and avoid the problem entirely.[/QUOTE]Actually, a couple of years ago, we were doing something for Virgin Australia. Virgin Blue.

Same. When a person checks for flights, extra baggage, insurance and, wait, by default, it always adds 2 as number of pax LOL.

Oh the fun we had handling claims. For a single person, travelling baggage free, being charged for baggage and all. Though people were wise to not buy tickets for two, they overlooked the insurance and extra baggage options.

[url]http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/174011/photos-of-tourists-posing-with-crosses-on-good-friday-anger-netizens[/url]

Wonder where their fury was, when they were taking pictures of the Lunetta massacre site LOL.

They only can outdo themselves.

I will post this here in the General Info thread so it covers all threads, as there are frequent requests all over the place for information about "how much".

I have done a bit of a whip around a few of the guys who live here (and that I know) to get a handle on just what we all pay for the non-bar girl freelancer or DIA or other dating websites encounters in which the girl makes it clear that payment is expected for a 3 or 4 hour session in SOGO or Eurotel or whatever.

The common and regular amount that we pay here is 1500 php [B]in or near Manila[/B].

Note that this does NOT apply to barfines or any situation where you have professional services provided and / or you have already paid upfront whether for girl or for the bar. It also does NOT refer to the DIA meet up where it is clear the woman would be grossly insulted if you offered her money (that's a freebie).

I am referring to payment for a girl who you contact (or who contacts you) on a dating website asking if you want some fun or a girl that you meet in a mall or on the street and who clearly is expecting some reward.

Now those of you who boast about 500 or 1000 php success that's Ok for you. You do your own thing.

[B]For those guys who don't wish to either shortchange a girl OR over pay her and who want to know what is the median figure that some of us start and finish on, it is 1500 php.[/B]

If you ask a woman "how much?" and you get the standard "it's up to you" response, then you can start at 1000 php and if she accepts then you still have an option to offer to tip her extra for super service and still be within the 1500 limit. For me, it is 1500 php flat. No negotiation, That's it.

If you go beyond 1500 ph then that's your option too but the girl will think it is her lucky day. Many times I have offered 1500 php and had girls say "not enough" and I just say "OK then, take it or leave it" and every time they have taken it when they have seen that I am serious about it.

I know there will be many guys say "too much" and relate their own stories. That's OK, but from my perspective (and a few mates), 1500 php is fair trade for 3 hours of services and I, personally, would feel cheap if I gave anybody who was expecting cash for services less than 1500 for a ST session.

Of course, even better are the situations where it costs nothing at all, but that is not what I am discussing here.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1267823]I know there will be many guys say "too much" and relate their own stories. That's OK, but from my perspective (and a few mates).1500 php is fair trade for 3 hours of services and I, personally, would feel cheap if I gave anybody who was expecting cash for services less than 1500 for a ST session.

Of course, even better are the situations where it costs nothing at all, but that is not what I am discussing here.[/QUOTE]Good stuff RK. This should be re-posted about once a month for newbs, so they don't have to RTTF too far back. I'm one of the guys who often gets it for less, but 1500 st / 2000 lt is typical in manila. BTW you can subtract 500 in cebu, and even more in the province. OTOH, I've been getting huge initial requests from provincial girls in the last year. 5k. 7k. 10k, and 20k. The view that we are walking ATM's is endemic.

[quote=westcoast1;1267880]good stuff rk. this should be re-posted about once a month for newbs, so they don't have to rttf too far back. i'm one of the guys who often gets it for less, but 1500 st / 2000 lt is typical in manila. btw you can subtract 500 in cebu, and even more in the province. otoh, i've been getting huge initial requests from provincial girls in the last year. 5k. 7k. 10k, and 20k. the view that we are walking atm's is endemic.[/quote]chatmates or bargirls, if they are willing to have sex have to be re imbursed. there is nothing like freebie unless horny old successfull woman hits you. even then she wants to be dined and given gifts. phi girls are notorious for demanding money and gifts without any qualms about it. some want to be instant millionaires (in their mind ). one girl in manila said her friend (real cute) wants 10, 000 pesos st. after arguing she said 3000 is ok. had a offer from a virgin girl for 20, 000 pesos. who knows true virgin or not?

generally bargirls want 1500 st and 2500 lt. ofcourse depending on her circumstances she may agree for 1000 st and 1500 lt. some mbc girls are desperate to earn any amount. they have already invested trip cost, food and drink and really tired of hanging around and waiting.

in my experience edsa girls do not ever go for lower price. maybe there is mafia pricing or peer pressure.

chatgirls are much cheaper. some are real gfe and happy with what you give. very appreciative of gifts also. if they are from provinces and poor even 500 pesos is considered lot of money. all girls if they have cousins, aunts, friends who are dating foreigners will demand more money. they also say so and so got expensive computer, cell phone etc. i believe them and i am sure some did exactly that. what the heck they are going to do with expensive computer apart from chatting? i heard from another girl that these girls sell expensive gifts as soon as the guy goes home. then they tell a sob story that it was stolen. ever heard how many girls tell you their cell phone is stolen? most likely it is sold or pawned.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt;1267823]The common and regular amount that we pay here is 1500 php [B]in or near Manila[/B][/QUOTE]I would say that it very much depends on the 'quality' of the lady in question. Many would be in the 1000-1500 bracket (such as the typical MBC girl) but if she is particularly hot and if she was my type, I will happily give more. The most that I have ever given in The Philippines for a 2 pop ST (don't do anything else) is 3 thousand but that was to a stunner who agreed to greek and CIM all captured in glorious HD Video..lol. Worth every centavo.

This is based on Cebu, Davao, and smaller provincial cities, for chatmates and mall pick-ups. Keep in mind, always, what the average daily wage is for regular jobs. One girl was working in an internet cafe. Wage was 100 pesos per day! She thought the 500 I gave her was a fortune. Very eager for return engagements. Several pairs I've met at Ayala were also quite willing to accept 1000 for the two of them for ST. These were unemployed provincial girls visiting for a few days and staying with 'aunty'. Regular pay for most employed girls will range from 150. 300 pesos per day. Maximum I will offer is 1000 P.

For others it will be a vacation to a beach resort such as Bohol, Camotes or Malapascua, with appropriate gifts such as bikinis, sarongs, sandals, hand bags, etc. Just ask yourselves, are you paying what is locally appropriate, or what rich foreigners are expected to dole out?

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1267880][SNIP] OTOH, I've been getting huge initial requests from provincial girls in the last year. 5k. 7k. 10k, and 20k. The view that we are walking ATM's is endemic.[/QUOTE]I see someone is training for the DIA marathon. *big grin smiley*

Red Kilt started this conversation and there's been mostly good info. My two yen.

Last month I negotiated an EDSA gal down to 1k and she stayed all night. In the end I fed her a midnight snack and breakfast, and added some small bills for taxi, so I was at about the 1. 5k that RK suggests. I should warn newbies that this is below what EDSA girls expect.

She had small breasts and, according to her, she'd worked there a week, needed money, and no one was bfing her because of her itty bitty titties. I might add that there were stretch marks, but she had a pretty face. She was also charming and had enough English to keep me interested.

About five years ago the fine body of one of my EDSA girls graced the ISG photo thread. 1k and she stayed three days. Later, she found a fiance, but I fkd her again in her province. Again 1k, and she gave me good advice about an online gal,"the girl giving you the virgin story is bola bola." So I invited the "virg" to Bohol and and sure enough she fkd me silly. The last I heard from the EDSA treasure, she was working in a fast food restaurant somewhere in the US of A.

One of my favorite little girls from an Erik bar in Cebu is not working now. She demands 3k if we meet again. Orig. I paid barfine and 1k and got some nice pics. I tried to reason with her, but she just got abusive. But two or three times a week I get the ymess ding from her. I did her sis too, but she was worthless. WR, you remember those two at the opening party of Red Lips?

I'm starting to ramble, better quit now. X

[QUOTE=Gangles; 1266367]It looks at first glance that Cebu Pacific really ripped off GE for his 1, 000 peso fare to be inflated to 8, 000. I find it hard to believe.

When I am in the Phils, I fly Cebu Pacific much more than the other airlines, because of its better scheduling. The model that Cebu Pacific is using is pretty standard for all low cost discount airlines. That is, you initially pay for the seat, and that is all that you get. If you want more, then you pay for it. So if you are prepared to fly with only carry-on baggage, and sit where the computer puts you, and neither eat nor drink, then you do travel cheaply. If you want the extras, then the price rises.

However, at no time does the airline deliberately hide the costs that you are incurring. And at one point, it asks you to verify the data so far.

Also, the airline provides seats at a sliding scale of prices. If you book far enough ahead, you get seats at the lowest prices. As these are all sold, then the next seats are sold at the next highest price. Etc. If you book a day or two in advance, it is likely that you will be paying the full fare. There are lots of bargains out there for the flyer who can plan and book well in advance, and is prepared to fly "bare bones".

It seems to me that maybe GE has made his reservation in the same way that he has done in the past with full fare carriers, like PAL. These carriers assume that you want everything, and charge you accordingly. So if you are not carrying any baggage, you are still charged for it. If you do not want to eat or drink, too bad, you already pay for it. Etc etc.

So maybe GE was not paying careful attention to what was happening with his fare, and was not carefully reading the questions that he was being asked about which add-ons he did or did not want. Every step, every add-on is displayed, with the cost, and the option to buy or decline. So maybe he will be more careful next time.

However, I am pissed off at the exchange rate that the airline used. Maybe someone with some time to spare could choose one day, and go to each airline in turn and ask them what rate they are using for that day. It would be an interesting comparison. And would give some hard facts rather than our suppositions.

So maybe a good lesson for all travelers to be a bit more careful when buying tickets over the internet for a discount airline.

As an aside, Air Asia have extended that model to apply it to their chain of discount hotels. Tune Hotels. When you initially book a room, you pay a low price, but the room is all that you get, with towels and soap. If you want air conditioning, you pay. If you want TV, you pay. If you want internet, you pay. The rooms are small, immaculately clean, everything works, and the WIFI is pretty fast. And it is spreading pretty quickly across Asia. Some time ago, the CEO of Air Asia was riding with me, and he explained the business model. Pretty impressive. Starts with micro analysis of every source of costs, and devising the lowest cost way to deliver. Step by step. As he stepped me through it, I was thinking about the opposition, the full cost airlines. They are actually astonishingly wasteful, and the customer is paying for the waste.

Enough from me,

G.[/QUOTE]I bought a Cebu Pacific ticket with a foreign credit card at the ticket office at Manila terminal 3. I was pleased that the staff asked if I would like to be charged in Peso or US Dollars (I have a US Dollar credit card). I of course said pay in Peso as that means that the exchange rate is not determined by Cebu Pacific, but my the card issuing bank. It is now common, especially in Thailand, to try and charge in the foreign currency. In that case the seller side establishes a usually rubbish rate. Conclusion: when you had over your credit card for any major purchase, emphasize that you want to be card charged in LOCAL CURRENCY.

[QUOTE=Questor55;1268009]This is based on Cebu, Davao, and smaller provincial cities, for chatmates and mall pick-ups. Keep in mind, always, what the average daily wage is for regular jobs. One girl was working in an internet cafe. Wage was 100 pesos per day! She thought the 500 I gave her was a fortune. Very eager for return engagements. Several pairs I've met at Ayala were also quite willing to accept 1000 for the two of them for ST. These were unemployed provincial girls visiting for a few days and staying with 'aunty'. Regular pay for most employed girls will range from 150. 300 pesos per day. Maximum I will offer is 1000 P.[/QUOTE]I think your numbers are very rationalistic and reasonable for non-bar girls. Does anybody think the guys that hand the girl 1500p get any better service? I suspect they are being laughed at and labeled suckers, they might even get lackluster service because the girls view them as easy. Just MHO.

I should note that I don't go to Manila much but I've had several girls from Manila, and I've had my share of girls in Pampanga, Angeles area which I consider 'near Manila.' The last bar girl I did in Angeles (after hours) I only gave 1000p and I had to kick her out about noon. BTW she's still texting me wanting to know when I will return. So for me 1500p just seems a bit over the top.

[QUOTE=Punter 127; 1268381]I think your numbers are very rationalistic and reasonable for non-bar girls. Does anybody think the guys that hand the girl 1500p get any better service? I suspect they are being laughed at and labeled suckers, they might even get lackluster service because the girls view them as easy. Just MHO.

I should note that I don't go to Manila much but I've had several girls from Manila, and I've had my share of girls in Pampanga, Angeles area which I consider 'near Manila. ' The last bar girl I did in Angeles (after hours) I only gave 1000p and I had to kick her out about noon. BTW she's still texting me wanting to know when I will return. So for me 1500p just seems a bit over the top.[/QUOTE]Yeah, that's about $11. 00 more. I don't know how long I could hang around at that price. If I had to worry about $11.00 a night, I wouldn't even frigg'n go there. WTF??

[QUOTE=Punter 127; 1268381]. .

I should note that I don't go to Manila much but I've had several girls from Manila, and I've had my share of girls in Pampanga, Angeles area which I consider 'near Manila. ' The last bar girl I did in Angeles (after hours) I only gave 1000p and I had to kick her out about noon. BTW she's still texting me wanting to know when I will return. So for me 1500p just seems a bit over the top.[/QUOTE]My point was that 1500 php is a FAIR price for services given.

It is not fair to equate payment for using a woman's body for sex to the pay scales for domestic workers or shop assistants or building site laborers as a few posters seem to want to do. I don't view the transaction in quite the same way.

My original post was seeking to establish a median price that is a fair exchange for services.

I acknowledged that some of you will barter desperate girls down to 1000 or 500 php or even only a Jollibee Happy Meal but, for me, that is taking advantage of a desperate girl's plight.

I feel comfortable in my own mind knowing that I am not under-paying her when I give 1500 php, especially as I can afford it.

[QUOTE=Slippery;1268400]Yeah, that's about $11. 00 more. I don't know how long I could hang around at that price. If I had to worry about $11.00 a night, I wouldn't even frigg'n go there. WTF??[/QUOTE]Slippery seems to be deliberately missing the point. His WTF retort lacks any attempt to respond rationally. In any case, by referring to $11 US he is obviously thinking of American values with an American mindset in a country with a totally different system of values and VALUE. Think like a Yank, act like a Yank, then PAY like a Yank! Reminds me of that WW II joke about American troops in England."Over sexed, over paid and over here!" Enjoy your inflated bonkfest, Slippery.

[QUOTE=Slippery;1268400]Yeah, that's about $11.00 more. I don't know how long I could hang around at that price.[/quote]Dude I don't 'go there' I live in the Philippines and I don't live here on the company dime or have an expense account. I live here on a fixed income and $11.00 is important to me, and it would be even if I had unlimited funds. You see I was taught to respect money and not waste it. It's not about the amount of money, it about having respect for money.

[QUOTE=Slippery;1268400]If I had to worry about $11. 00 a night, I wouldn't even frigg'n go there. WTF??[/quote]Sounds good to me, I sincerely hope $11.00 become important to you in the very near future, we'll miss you, that's WTF!!!

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1268416]My point was that 1500 php is a FAIR price for services given.

It is not fair to equate payment for using a woman's body for sex to the pay scales for domestic workers or shop assistants or building site laborers as a few posters seem to want to do. I don't view the transaction in quite the same way.

My original post was seeking to establish a median price that is a fair exchange for services.

I acknowledged that some of you will barter desperate girls down to 1000 or 500 php or even only a Jollibee Happy Meal but, for me, that is taking advantage of a desperate girl's plight.

I feel comfortable in my own mind knowing that I am not under-paying her when I give 1500 php, especially as I can afford it.[/QUOTE]I understand your thinking and appreciate the fact that you're willing to share your good fortune. But aren't you "taking advantage of a desperate girl's plight" (as we all do) regardless of the amount you pay her?

[QUOTE=Punter 127;1268426]$11.00 is important to me, and it would be even if I had unlimited funds. You see I was taught to respect money and not waste it. It's not about the amount of money, it about having respect for money.[/QUOTE]Ditto that, and let's also keep in mind that the amount equals 5 days' wages for many sales ladies.

There is a distinction between between respecting money and being a wastrel as there also is between respecting money and being a Cheap Charlie. You live on a fixed income. I don't. I financed and paid for my universtity and post-grad education. You don't think I sacrificed for that and don't know the value of money? That was 8 frigg'and years of my life and 8 frigg'and years of sacrifice and then another 10 years after that to pay it all off. Other than dinner and drinks, I don't pay for pussy, period. The last time I did that was so long ago that the statute of limitations on it has already run. Apparently you are too cheap to do dinner and drinks. Perhaps you don't even have the social skills to do that. If a date is going to cost 1,500 php for dinner and drinks and then back to my place, I don't really care. A good time was had by all. If a cabbie tries to clip me for 500 php on the way home, I certainly do care. I travel and pay for lodging and incidentals on my own dime and not somebody else's. No company pays for those and I have no expense account.

I am either regretfully or fortunately still working. My income is not fixed. It fluctuates. It can go anywhere from zero to thousands a week. I don't know anything about managing money after nearly 30 years of that? I certainly do, however, unlike you, I am not a cheap bastard.

[QUOTE=Slippery;1268676]Other than dinner and drinks, I don't pay for pussy, period. The last time I did that was so long ago that the statute of limitations on it has already run. Apparently you are too cheap to do dinner and drinks. Perhaps you don't even have the social skills to do that. If a date is going to cost 1,500 php for dinner and drinks and then back to my place, I don't really care. [snip][/quote]The subject here is paying for pussy not dating.
This is a mongers forum, if you're not a monger why are you here?
Just for the pleasure you seem to get from insulting and antagonizing perhaps?

If you're not a monger then you're a civilian, and we don't need civilians telling mongers how much we should pay for pussy.
[QUOTE=Slippery;1268676]I certainly do, however, unlike you, I am not a cheap bastard. [snip][/QUOTE]I don't dispute that your not cheap, but the 'bastard' part, well that's very disputable!

[QUOTE=Pute Nut;1268434]Ditto that, and let's also keep in mind that the amount equals 5 days' wages for many sales ladies.[/QUOTE]Many good-loooking, or many slippery-looking sales ladies? There's the difference, keep that in mind.