Seeking Arrangements

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2851340]The rates you paid in the past are no longer valid. $100-$125 can get you a 7-7. 5. But stunners 8+ are asking 200 USD. Top shelf girls want $250-$300+. Most importantly, 90% stick to asking rates and won't budge. I think CDMX makes more sense right now, because it is closer to the US, the food is better, and the rates have become more or less the same, so going to Colombia doesn't really make you save.[/QUOTE]I'm sorry MiamiBoy1, but are you talking about Colombia? Because, if so, your prices are completely off. I have spent around 4 months in Medellin this year and usually max out the 6 month tourist visa annually. The majority of people who are participating in the P4P market in Colombia are Colombians. No one is paying a months pay to fuck some strange, and that goes for Medellin, Bogota, Cali, or anywhere else in Colombia. Women are, however, getting quite good at fleecing foreigners who think in dollars and go to La Isla and throw 1's like a bunch of idiots thinking it's an American strip club.

But your insinuation that the previous poster's pricing ranges are no longer valid is asinine. You're welcome to pay whatever the hell you want, but posting that these prices are in any way normal in Colombia is not helpful for anyone who is looking to visit Colombia. Unless you're pulling a psyop and trying to get less people to visit Colombia for box.

[QUOTE=Intelligencium;2852555]Hi folks,

I am meeting a SB tomorrow through seeking. We discussed money over whatsapp (with my fake name and a virtual number) and she also talked about what she does (no anal, yes condom etc). Given that paying for sex is illegal in US, do you take any precautions? I guess there is a 0. 001% chance that she will bring along LE. Or a 0. 01% chance that she blackmails later on.

In Spain I wasn't worried since sex for money is legal there.[/QUOTE]I am prone to worry too. And overprepare. But you have literally nothing to worry about.

Consider how preposterous it would be for LE. To not fish where the fish are in massage parlors, on HX, on bedpage, but to literally jump thru the hoops of setting dates with a guy on seeking to trap him.

Your bigger threat by far is a crazy girl who steals from you. Extorts you. Cons you. Pay more attention to that.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2852714]I am prone to worry too. And overprepare. But you have literally nothing to worry about.

Consider how preposterous it would be for LE. To not fish where the fish are in massage parlors, on HX, on bedpage, but to literally jump thru the hoops of setting dates with a guy on seeking to trap him.

Your bigger threat by far is a crazy girl who steals from you. Extorts you. Cons you. Pay more attention to that.[/QUOTE]Thanks! Extortion is one worry I have too. But I'm hiding my real identity well (I think). My wallet is hidden in the room, I'll make sure she leaves before I go to my car etc. Fingers crossed.

[QUOTE=Intelligencium;2852555]Hi folks,

I am meeting a SB tomorrow through seeking. We discussed money over whatsapp (with my fake name and a virtual number) and she also talked about what she does (no anal, yes condom etc). Given that paying for sex is illegal in US, do you take any precautions? I guess there is a 0. 001% chance that she will bring along LE. Or a 0. 01% chance that she blackmails later on.

In Spain I wasn't worried since sex for money is legal there.[/QUOTE]I've done Seeking in US with over 40 girls. If you have been chatting and setting up the date LE has no time for such bullshit. And it needs to be quid pro quo "money for sex" which SA never is. I really never discuss it in person which is safest. But if you do then don't ever get as explicit as money for sex. And in the room you will not pay her till after. LE is not going to have sex with you. So no money exchanged till 100% not LE. I usually put it in an unmarked envelope under the ice bucket or phone and put it in her bag later after sex.

Short story. Don't worry.

[QUOTE=JohnS123;2852678]I'm sorry MiamiBoy1, but are you talking about Colombia? Because, if so, your prices are completely off. I have spent around 4 months in Medellin this year and usually max out the 6 month tourist visa annually. The majority of people who are participating in the P4P market in Colombia are Colombians. No one is paying a months pay to fuck some strange, and that goes for Medellin, Bogota, Cali, or anywhere else in Colombia. Women are, however, getting quite good at fleecing foreigners who think in dollars and go to La Isla and throw 1's like a bunch of idiots thinking it's an American strip club.

But your insinuation that the previous poster's pricing ranges are no longer valid is asinine. You're welcome to pay whatever the hell you want, but posting that these prices are in any way normal in Colombia is not helpful for anyone who is looking to visit Colombia. Unless you're pulling a psyop and trying to get less people to visit Colombia for box.[/QUOTE]Yes, I was talking about Colombia. BTW, do you realize you are in the Seeking Arrangement thread where SA girls and rates are discussed? Not El Centro SW or casa hoes. Seeking caters to foreigners, not locals, and yes, foreigners pay those rates. If they didn't, we wouldn't get quoted the rates I posted. Also, this is not my first rodeo, I spend months in Colombia every year, 4+ months in 2023 alone and just got back to States last week. If you disagree with the rates I posted, feel free to post the rates you got quoted or negotiated with Seeking girls, and also, post their profile pics, so that we all know what you are talking about. If you manage to score Seeking stunners for $50-100 or whatever you pay, and can prove this, and if you can do this consistently, I will take my hat off. But until then, your response to my post is not constructive. Am I happy with those rates? Sure I'm not, and I have to pass on some girls, but not only because of the rates they quote, but because I get hoe vibes more often than not, screaming that my experience will be lame. And I don't want to pay top dollar for a quickie with a pro.

Nothing to worry. Try meeting at a social setting. Always - before sex.

Helps weed out crazies, druggies, and cons. LE on SA. Highly unlikely.

Be prepared for underage idiots, though. In the US, parents of underage can press charges even later on. I posted about this in the past.

Bottomline. US is shitty. But I will not worry about LE on SA. Do take common sense precautions though. Like Steve said always pay after and pay discrete (money not paid hand to hand also allows for a non-transactional illusion).

[QUOTE=Intelligencium;2852555]Hi folks,

I am meeting a SB tomorrow through seeking. We discussed money over whatsapp (with my fake name and a virtual number) and she also talked about what she does (no anal, yes condom etc). Given that paying for sex is illegal in US, do you take any precautions? I guess there is a 0. 001% chance that she will bring along LE. Or a 0. 01% chance that she blackmails later on.

In Spain I wasn't worried since sex for money is legal there.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2852757]Yes, I was talking about Colombia. BTW, do you realize you are in the Seeking Arrangement thread where SA girls and rates are discussed? Not El Centro SW or casa hoes. Seeking caters to foreigners, not locals, and yes, foreigners pay those rates. If they didn't, we wouldn't get quoted the rates I posted. Also, this is not my first rodeo, I spend months in Colombia every year, 4+ months in 2023 alone and just got back to States last week. If you disagree with the rates I posted, feel free to post the rates you got quoted or negotiated with Seeking girls, and also, post their profile pics, so that we all know what you are talking about. If you manage to score Seeking stunners for $50-100 or whatever you pay, and can prove this, and if you can do this consistently, I will take my hat off. But until then, your response to my post is not constructive. Am I happy with those rates? Sure I'm not, and I have to pass on some girls, but not only because of the rates they quote, but because I get hoe vibes more often than not, screaming that my experience will be lame. And I don't want to pay top dollar for a quickie with a pro.[/QUOTE]If your argument is that prices have increased over the past, say, year, I have no objection to that. If your argument is that there exist women in Colombia on Seeking who are quoting $200 USD or $300 USD on the platform, I also have no objection. I have, in fact, been quoted $300 USD before by a woman who said she doesn't like cheap guys (BLOCKED). There are certainly some foreigners paying that as well. However, that is by no means the norm. And I will simply dismiss the strawman of Centro hoes as I have legitimately never been there aside from the obligatory sight seeing at the Museo de Antioquia. I don't spend time in that trashcan.

I'm also going to address the fact that you initially responded to the individual who posted prior to you with no photos, no rates, and no negotiations with Seeking girls. If you want to do this, you go first with your the photos and chat logs, but I'm not adhering to a standard that you don't even attempt to abide by, my friend. I also doubt you want to burn any relationships you have with these women by posting their photos on a publicly accessible website unless they are actively advertising as prostitutes. I'm not stupid.

If you won't do that, then we have no reason to continue going back and forth on this topic. Your claim is that the majority or all of the 8+'s on Seeking across all locations in Colombia are asking for 200 USD (800,000 COP) to 300 USD (1,200,000 COP) or more. My claim is that while some are certainly quoting these numbers, this is not at all the norm or standard, and the original posters report of paying 70 USD (275,000 COP) - 140 USD (550,000 COP) is attainable. The reader can draw their own conclusions.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2852757]Yes, I was talking about Colombia. BTW, do you realize you are in the Seeking Arrangement thread where SA girls and rates are discussed? Not El Centro SW or casa hoes. Seeking caters to foreigners, not locals, and yes, foreigners pay those rates. If they didn't, we wouldn't get quoted the rates I posted. Also, this is not my first rodeo, I spend months in Colombia every year, 4+ months in 2023 alone and just got back to States last week. If you disagree with the rates I posted, feel free to post the rates you got quoted or negotiated with Seeking girls, and also, post their profile pics, so that we all know what you are talking about. If you manage to score Seeking stunners for $50-100 or whatever you pay, and can prove this, and if you can do this consistently, I will take my hat off. But until then, your response to my post is not constructive. Am I happy with those rates? Sure I'm not, and I have to pass on some girls, but not only because of the rates they quote, but because I get hoe vibes more often than not, screaming that my experience will be lame. And I don't want to pay top dollar for a quickie with a pro.[/QUOTE]If your argument is that prices have increased over the past, say, year, I have no objection to that. If your argument is that there exist women in Colombia on Seeking who are quoting $200 USD or $300 USD on the platform, I also have no objection. I have, in fact, been quoted $300 USD before by a woman who said she doesn't like cheap guys (BLOCKED). There are certainly some foreigners paying that as well. However, that is by no means the norm. And I will simply dismiss the strawman of Centro hoes as I have legitimately never been there aside from the obligatory sight seeing at the Museo de Antioquia. I don't spend time in that trashcan.

I'm also going to address the fact that you initially responded to the individual who posted prior to you with no photos, no rates, and no negotiations with Seeking girls. If you want to do this, you go first with your the photos and chat logs, but I'm not adhering to a standard that you don't even attempt to abide by, my friend. I also doubt you want to burn any relationships you have with these women by posting their photos on a publicly accessible website unless they are actively advertising as prostitutes. I'm not stupid.

If you won't do that, then we have no reason to continue going back and forth on this topic. Your claim is that the majority or all of the 8+'s on Seeking across all locations in Colombia are asking for 200 USD ( 800,000 COP) to 300 USD (1,200,000 COP) or more. My claim is that while some are certainly quoting these numbers, this is not at all the norm or standard, and the original posters report of paying 70 USD ( 275,000 COP) - 140 USD ( 550,000 COP) is attainable. The reader can draw their own conclusions.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2852714]
Your bigger threat by far is a crazy girl who steals from you. Extorts you. Cons you. Pay more attention to that.[/QUOTE]These were my major concerns after meeting red flag girl. I'm still amazed she gave me my money back after she backed out. I was an idiot for going to see her (to be fair the red flags weren't waving like crazy until I was half way there) but she was so fucking hot I wanted to see her. That whole thing still blows my mind.

The main thing is just try and talk a decent amount before you meet and you can gauge the craziness.

[QUOTE=JohnS123;2852838]If your argument is that prices have increased over the past, say, year, I have no objection to that. If your argument is that there exist women in Colombia on Seeking who are quoting $200 USD or $300 USD on the platform, I also have no objection. I have, in fact, been quoted $300 USD before by a woman who said she doesn't like cheap guys (BLOCKED). There are certainly some foreigners paying that as well. However, that is by no means the norm. And I will simply dismiss the strawman of Centro hoes as I have legitimately never been there aside from the obligatory sight seeing at the Museo de Antioquia. I don't spend time in that trashcan.

I'm also going to address the fact that you initially responded to the individual who posted prior to you with no photos, no rates, and no negotiations with Seeking girls. If you want to do this, you go first with your the photos and chat logs, but I'm not adhering to a standard that you don't even attempt to abide by, my friend. I also doubt you want to burn any relationships you have with these women by posting their photos on a publicly accessible website unless they are actively advertising as prostitutes. I'm not stupid.

If you won't do that, then we have no reason to continue going back and forth on this topic. Your claim is that the majority or all of the 8+'s on Seeking across all locations in Colombia are asking for 200 USD ( 800,000 COP) to 300 USD (1,200,000 COP) or more. My claim is that while some are certainly quoting these numbers, this is not at all the norm or standard, and the original posters report of paying 70 USD ( 275,000 COP) - 140 USD ( 550,000 COP) is attainable. The reader can draw their own conclusions.[/QUOTE]I responded to Elvis simply because the rates he posted is what he used to pay back in the day. He has a girlfriend now, and has been in the relationship for quite some time, so he is not up to date when it comes to current rates. I don't know what you consider to be the norm or the standard. I stated the facts, because I just got back from Colombia and had been using Seeking while I was there. The rates change over time, and what used to be the norm or the standard some time ago, is no longer the norm. Like it or not, 200+ USD is what good looking girls want these days, and not for an overnight date, but for 2-3 hours max. Any major city in Latin or South America (CDMX, SP, Rio, Bogota, Buenos Aires, etc) got the same rates if you are looking for quality. Medellin is no exception. Heck, you won't even find that many 8's on Seeking in medellin because most of them are off market, traveling, etc.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2852785]Nothing to worry. Try meeting at a social setting. Always - before sex.

Helps weed out crazies, druggies, and cons. LE on SA. Highly unlikely.

Be prepared for underage idiots, though. In the US, parents of underage can press charges even later on. I posted about this in the past.

Bottomline. US is shitty. But I will not worry about LE on SA. Do take common sense precautions though. Like Steve said always pay after and pay discrete (money not paid hand to hand also allows for a non-transactional illusion).[/QUOTE]Thanks all for the tips and reassurances. The meet went fine. I did not get a chance to meet her before the sex. I have only half a day free once a week and I can't waste it on meet and greets. I also cannot be seen in public. But I got good (normal person) vibes chatting with her. And she turned out to be normal. She had experience before, so I appreciated that she wasn't too nosy, was discrete and wasn't clingy.

500 PPM, but she was pretty vanilla compared to Europe. We had sex twice in 2 hours including chit-chat. I am not sure if I will repeat if I can find someone hotter. But if not, will try to talk her down to 400. Fingers crossed.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2852872]I responded to Elvis simply because the rates he posted is what he used to pay back in the day.[/QUOTE]Back in the day was two years ago, and I was quoted $250, $300, $800, and even $2000 a month from women, and I did not partake with any of these women because of their rates. In fact, more often that not when I was in Colombia, I did not mention price. We have had this talk before MB and I told you not to mention money when meeting women, and you tried it, and it worked.

Unlike in the USA, I found you did not have to lead with money. What I said was between $70 and $140 satisfied the women and if I was willing to repeat, I could have had seeking women night and day. I averaged 3 dates a day in Medellin and 2 in Bogota. When there were no shows or I was just horny and wanted strange, I ventured out into the hooker world, and I have said this before, the sex I had in the hooker world in Colombia on average was better than I had in the seeking world. I just repeated with the better seeking women.

If a seeking woman wanted $200, and I could have better sex with an escort for half that or a good Santa Fe chick for 10% that, why would I pay that price? Escorts and SWs have prices. Seeking women are supposed to get gifts not set rates.

There was a black girl from Cali in Santa Fe who had the nicest body of any woman I have ever been with in Colombia, and she gave a great massage. First time I saw her, I paid $12. Next time I saw her, I said I wanted an hour with no interruptions and paid her the whopping sum of $25. You make these comments about diseased women in SF and centro in Medellin, and I get where you are coming from but I have seen women from Santa Fe who turn heads and are very into health.

I think the guys who pay the $200+ dollars are deluding themselves into thinking these women are not escorts when they are. If they set a price, they are escorts. Maybe guys think they are low volume and safer because they are on seeking, but I would not take that as gospel.

I kept my seeking diamonds to myself, but I posted and commented on the ones I did not want to repeat with, and a lot of guys saw these women and banged them too, so aren't these women really escorts?

So yeah, maybe some of the Colombian women on seeking are asking for a lot, but I would not pay it. If 8+ escorts are going for $200 an hour, then I would have considered paying $200, but I see no reason for anyone to do that when they are charging $100 an hour. The best sex I have ever had with women from seeking are those where price was never mentioned and inevitably, the women who asked for the least but gave the most in bed got the most out of me.

You made the point you get better service from a seeking woman at $200 than you do from other women. I guarantee you that if I sought out ten escorts in Santa Fe for that same $200, I would find one and probably more than one that gave better service than that $200 an hour seeking woman.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2852872]I responded to Elvis simply because the rates he posted is what he used to pay back in the day. He has a girlfriend now, and has been in the relationship for quite some time, so he is not up to date when it comes to current rates. I don't know what you consider to be the norm or the standard. I stated the facts, because I just got back from Colombia and had been using Seeking while I was there. The rates change over time, and what used to be the norm or the standard some time ago, is no longer the norm. Like it or not, 200+ USD is what good looking girls want these days, and not for an overnight date, but for 2-3 hours max. Any major city in Latin or South America (CDMX, SP, Rio, Bogota, Buenos Aires, etc) got the same rates if you are looking for quality. Medellin is no exception. Heck, you won't even find that many 8's on Seeking in medellin because most of them are off market, traveling, etc.[/QUOTE]There aren't uniform prices across major cities in Europe. Nor are there uniform prices across major cities in the United States. But, somehow, prices are uniform across all of the major cities and currencies in Latin America?

Look, you have paid what you've paid, and as I said before, you're free to pay whatever you would like to pay on Seeking. I don't control anyone's pocketbook. But I am in numerous Medellin groups where we share information on different strategies and platforms to find talent. Multiple have boots on the ground across Colombia (Medellin, Cali, Bogota) paying around 300,000-600,00 COP ($75-$150) for anywhere from multiple hours to TLN with all of the bells and whistles on Seeking specifically, with photo and video proof. Outside of Seeking, naturally paying less. I am not speculating or guessing on any of this.

Have I also seen people paying 1,200,000 COP ($300) for a cita? Certainly. But that is still not the norm.

You did not state "the facts" about the entire market on Seeking in Latin America, you stated what you personally paid and then extrapolated that to the entire market. I am also stating what other people are paying in the Seeking market in Colombia currently. Not a year ago, not 6 months ago. Now. Today.

$200+ USD for 2-3 hours on Seeking in major cities in Latin America is not the norm.

As I said before, the reader can draw their own conclusions. That's the whole point of the forum.

[QUOTE=JohnS123;2852960]There aren't uniform prices across major cities in Europe. Nor are there uniform prices across major cities in the United States. But, somehow, prices are uniform across all of the major cities and currencies in Latin America?

Look, you have paid what you've paid, and as I said before, you're free to pay whatever you would like to pay on Seeking. I don't control anyone's pocketbook. But I am in numerous Medellin groups where we share information on different strategies and platforms to find talent. Multiple have boots on the ground across Colombia (Medellin, Cali, Bogota) paying around 300,000-600,00 COP ($75-$150) for anywhere from multiple hours to TLN with all of the bells and whistles on Seeking specifically, with photo and video proof. Outside of Seeking, naturally paying less. I am not speculating or guessing on any of this.

Have I also seen people paying 1,200,000 COP ($300) for a cita? Certainly. But that is still not the norm.

You did not state "the facts" about the entire market on Seeking in Latin America, you stated what you personally paid and then extrapolated that to the entire market. I am also stating what other people are paying in the Seeking market in Colombia currently. Not a year ago, not 6 months ago. Now. Today.

$200+ USD for 2-3 hours on Seeking in major cities in Latin America is not the norm.

As I said before, the reader can draw their own conclusions. That's the whole point of the forum.[/QUOTE]If you read my initial response to Elvis again, you will see that I categorized talent and specified the rates for each category. 7-7. 5/10 can be had for 100-125 USD. While you are applying your rates across all of the categories. If someone wants the cream of the crop, he has to pay up. Good luck scoring a 9 for a hundred bucks. Cute girl next door type. Sure.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2852953]Back in the day was two years ago, and I was quoted $250, $300, $800, and even $2000 a month from women, and I did not partake with any of these women because of their rates. In fact, more often that not when I was in Colombia, I did not mention price. We have had this talk before MB and I told you not to mention money when meeting women, and you tried it, and it worked.

Unlike in the USA, I found you did not have to lead with money. What I said was between $70 and $140 satisfied the women and if I was willing to repeat, I could have had seeking women night and day. I averaged 3 dates a day in Medellin and 2 in Bogota. When there were no shows or I was just horny and wanted strange, I ventured out into the hooker world, and I have said this before, the sex I had in the hooker world in Colombia on average was better than I had in the seeking world. I just repeated with the better seeking women.

If a seeking woman wanted $200, and I could have better sex with an escort for half that or a good Santa Fe chick for 10% that, why would I pay that price? Escorts and SWs have prices. Seeking women are supposed to get gifts not set rates.

There was a black girl from Cali in Santa Fe who had the nicest body of any woman I have ever been with in Colombia, and she gave a great massage. First time I saw her, I paid $12. Next time I saw her, I said I wanted an hour with no interruptions and paid her the whopping sum of $25. You make these comments about diseased women in SF and centro in Medellin, and I get where you are coming from but I have seen women from Santa Fe who turn heads and are very into health.

I think the guys who pay the $200+ dollars are deluding themselves into thinking these women are not escorts when they are. If they set a price, they are escorts. Maybe guys think they are low volume and safer because they are on seeking, but I would not take that as gospel.

I kept my seeking diamonds to myself, but I posted and commented on the ones I did not want to repeat with, and a lot of guys saw these women and banged them too, so aren't these women really escorts?

So yeah, maybe some of the Colombian women on seeking are asking for a lot, but I would not pay it. If 8+ escorts are going for $200 an hour, then I would have considered paying $200, but I see no reason for anyone to do that when they are charging $100 an hour. The best sex I have ever had with women from seeking are those where price was never mentioned and inevitably, the women who asked for the least but gave the most in bed got the most out of me.

You made the point you get better service from a seeking woman at $200 than you do from other women. I guarantee you that if I sought out ten escorts in Santa Fe for that same $200, I would find one and probably more than one that gave better service than that $200 an hour seeking woman.[/QUOTE]I'm not disagreeing with your approach about not mentioning money. And this approach maybe worked well some time ago or still works in smaller cities or places with little competition. But SA in Medellin, and Bogota to some extent, nowadays is saturated with escorts who would roll out the price before you open your mouth. And as soon as a girl does that, I lose interest, be it a 100 USD or 300 USD, doesn't matter. Finding a hot woman who would not discuss price at all is like finding a unicorn. And look, its not like I'm completely against discussing rates, but I prefer to do it later into the conversation, and also, I don't want to get quoted ("800 k por 3 horas, amor" LOL) and have time constraints, I use Steve's approach, tell them how I see our date going and what my offer is. Unfortunately, it has become much harder to use this approach in Colombia, this is why I've been itching to try other places, like SP or BA. Even CDMX might be a better option.

I'm wondering how your approach/strategy would look like right now, if you didn't have a gf. Specifically in Colombia. What worked for you 2-3 years ago might not work today, the time has changed.

Hell no, not me. But the one and only girl I had a smashing success with on SA before I quit it after only three months of using the site. You guys may recall that back in early 2022, I met this white, blue-eyed, blonde hottie on SA, and we started bareback fucking straight away (with internal cum shots) for about 6 months. Well then she moved too far away for it all to continue, but we remained friendly and stayed in touch for at least another 6 months or so. Then all of a sudden crickets from her. I knew that she still had an ad on SA, but had of course changed her location. And then finally her SA ad disappeared too, which led me to believe that she had probably met somebody. I eventually tried to contact her by text, but no response. That didn't necessarily mean anything to me because she was prone to losing her phone, and my number along with it. I decided to let it go, and figured well if she wants to contact me some day, then she will. So scroll forward to today and I'm looking around online, and wouldn't you know it but FaceBook recommends her to me as a friend! And on her page she has a picture of her at a wedding ceremony! Now, she's some kind of hot, so I'm not surprised that somebody would see fit to wife her up. If she's happy then good for her. But not me man. Her life is fucked! I did some additional searching around and found that she had some legal troubles that she conveniently never told me about, like drugs and intoxication and disorderly contact. I did what I had to do. Nut up inside that pretty "Barbie" and let somebody else marry her. That's the monger way! Like I said, good for the both of them if they're happy. I was while it lasted LOL!

[QUOTE=TheCane;2853633]Her life is fucked! I did some additional searching around and found that she had some legal troubles that she conveniently never told me about, like drugs and intoxication and disorderly contact.[/QUOTE]Meant to say disorderly "conduct". And by the way, her new husband was in the picture. Looked to be an early to mid-30's white guy (she's late 20's). I could have had her hand in holy wedded matrimony, but you guys know me. Not going there. And she knew there was no way it was going there. I think that's why she up and split after 6 months. She knew I would never commit to anything long-term, and she obviously needed somebody to do that, even if just for financial reasons. She asked me at one point if all of her problems (the ones I knew about anyway) were a turnoff. Hey, I'm just not the marrying type and never have been (and especially not to somebody who would drag me into all of her personal financial and emotional shit). Nope! No siree Bob! No, I'm the "mongering type" LOL!

[QUOTE=TheCane;2853633]Hell no, not me. But the one and only girl I had a smashing success with on SA before I quit it after only three months of using the site. You guys may recall that back in early 2022, I met this white, blue-eyed, blonde hottie on SA, and we started bareback fucking straight away (with internal cum shots) for about 6 months. Well then she moved too far away for it all to continue, but we remained friendly and stayed in touch for at least another 6 months or so. Then all of a sudden crickets from her. I knew that she still had an ad on SA, but had of course changed her location. And then finally her SA ad disappeared too, which led me to believe that she had probably met somebody. I eventually tried to contact her by text, but no response. That didn't necessarily mean anything to me because she was prone to losing her phone, and my number along with it. I decided to let it go, and figured well if she wants to contact me some day, then she will. So scroll forward to today and I'm looking around online, and wouldn't you know it but FaceBook recommends her to me as a friend! And on her page she has a picture of her at a wedding ceremony! Now, she's some kind of hot, so I'm not surprised that somebody would see fit to wife her up. If she's happy then good for her. But not me man. Her life is fucked! I did some additional searching around and found that she had some legal troubles that she conveniently never told me about, like drugs and intoxication and disorderly contact. I did what I had to do. Nut up inside that pretty "Barbie" and let somebody else marry her. That's the monger way! Like I said, good for the both of them if they're happy. I was while it lasted LOL![/QUOTE]Yep, this a familiar story. I do not deal with too much substance abuse in Mexico, but I got back on SA in Texas, about 6 months ago, unfortunately this is the norm. I met this super hot chick, but she was mess. She told me she had quit drugs, but that was not the case.

Very sad what is happening to girls in the states.

I have had this happen twice and while I feel very happy for both of them and happy it wasn't me that did it, there is a small part that feels a little sense of loss they are no longer available for my pleasure. But I move on to the next ones and get over it quick.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2853633]Hell no, not me. But the one and only girl I had a smashing success with on SA before I quit it after only three months of using the site. You guys may recall that back in early 2022, I met this white, blue-eyed, blonde hottie on SA, and we started bareback fucking straight away (with internal cum shots) for about 6 months. Well then she moved too far away for it all to continue, but we remained friendly and stayed in touch for at least another 6 months or so. Then all of a sudden crickets from her. I knew that she still had an ad on SA, but had of course changed her location. And then finally her SA ad disappeared too, which led me to believe that she had probably met somebody. I eventually tried to contact her by text, but no response. That didn't necessarily mean anything to me because she was prone to losing her phone, and my number along with it. I decided to let it go, and figured well if she wants to contact me some day, then she will. So scroll forward to today and I'm looking around online, and wouldn't you know it but FaceBook recommends her to me as a friend! And on her page she has a picture of her at a wedding ceremony! Now, she's some kind of hot, so I'm not surprised that somebody would see fit to wife her up. If she's happy then good for her. But not me man. Her life is fucked! I did some additional searching around and found that she had some legal troubles that she conveniently never told me about, like drugs and intoxication and disorderly contact. I did what I had to do. Nut up inside that pretty "Barbie" and let somebody else marry her. That's the monger way! Like I said, good for the both of them if they're happy. I was while it lasted LOL![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2853056]I'm wondering how your approach/strategy would look like right now, if you didn't have a gf. Specifically in Colombia. What worked for you 2-3 years ago might not work today, the time has changed.[/QUOTE]Nah, it worked in 3 countries for over a decade and would work as well today as it would 2 or 3 years ago.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2853056]Finding a hot woman who would not discuss price at all is like finding a unicorn.[/QUOTE]The first SB I had was in 2009 and I had her for 4+ years, paid her $400 a session, saw her every 2 weeks, and she got like $50,000 out of me all told. If you are a professional Colombian, and I sponsor you for any kind of visa, that could potentially be worth millions more in wages.

Factually, MB, you may know this is true, but I suspect you are not emotionally buying into it and confidently selling it. What I have learned is that the women have to trust me before they trust the facts. The smart, trusting, and best were certain that $200 would be peanuts in the long run.

What I would do is send out messages to all the women I was attracted to. I would usually start with the ones new to the site but send out PMs to all the women who I found attractive and narrow the field. It is not easy finding a woman attractive enough, good enough in bed, and interesting enough for me to stay with her for four years. I could pick out quickly if a woman was SB material so I learned that coffee was a better way to mingle than a meal. I had a minimum with regard to looks but I was more interested in casting a wide net and weeding out the pretenders.

MB, you spent most of your time in Medellin, and while I had some luck there mostly with college girls who were from other cities, Medellin had a short term strip club vibe to it. The long term concept was foreign to the women who lived there. Yes, the women were a little hotter than the women in other places but it was not worth the huge difference in character. Strippers, hookers, and cam girls are too married to the P4 P concept to be a good long term partner.

Thing is I was not opposed to paying a woman $200 for a first meet if there was some great need in her life. I just didn't want it to be for sex. That is demeaning to me and to her. Many times a woman would mention their financial needs, and I could get them to a better place for much less than they thought. If they really were not the hooker types, they would be grateful.

I never looked at spending money on prospects as wasted although guys here made fun of me for doing so. Mighty Alabama spends money trying to get the best football players and a lot of time that is money and time wasted. Trying to get the best never is going to be easy. If you do not want to "waste" money, then you should aim low. The sure thing is rarely the best woman.

Thing is when I had built up a harem of women in Colombia, I was operating out of a position of power. It was not like how good are you, but why are you better than what I have? Why would I bother with some hooker for $200 when I already had three or four willing to go bare for $100 or even less and who probably were better in bed?

The ultimate litmus test for me was I could not have a real SB unless she could travel and that meant Mexico. When I bought a potential SB a ticket to Mexico, half of them did not make it, and I suspected which ones would make it and which ones would not. Thing is if you are savvy enough to make it through customs, you are probably savvy enough to be a good SB.

And so any woman saying, "I need $200 to meet" would have been axed by me. A woman who says she needs $200 for her sick grandmother, shows me that she spent the money on grandmother (even if she spent none or just some of it on her), and comes back and fucks the shit out of me like someone who has just helped her grandmother is the kind I wanted.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2853056].... Unfortunately, it has become much harder to use this approach in Colombia, this is why I've been itching to try other places, like SP or BA. Even CDMX might be a better option....[/QUOTE]It happens much faster in Medellin to see a girl before and after being stimulated by money. It also happens in other cities but at a much slower speed.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2853826]It happens much faster in Medellin to see a girl before and after being stimulated by money. It also happens in other cities but at a much slower speed.[/QUOTE]I guess I was ahead of my time with my assessment of MDE and Colombian Chicks. There are still lots of hot ones, but they have been told they are the hottest girls in the world for several years and guys have been throwing money at them.

There are still good girls to be found in the smaller cities, but that takes work, time and money. The easy days are over.

Those that have some game, a decent budget and put in the work will still be successful. , Elvis is correct about searching the smaller cities, but other guys will do the same.

Remember one of my previous SBs who got married and I had mixed feelings?

She pings me yesterday out of nowhere that she was thinking about me and our time together. It seems innocent and she shared a few pics from her current life.

She ended with a "good to talk to you. Will let you know when I am around in town".

What are the odds that I will get to fuck her again? Should I / Shouldn't I?

She is one of those few nicest girls I have met and I would want the best for her. On one aide, I don't want sexual desires mess up her current life. On other hand, I have had amazing time with her. Chemisry and sex were always great when it lasted.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2853864] Should I / Shouldn't I?

She is one of those few nicest girls I have met and I would want the best for her. On one aide, I don't want sexual desires mess up her current life. On other hand, I have had amazing time with her. Chemisry and sex were always great when it lasted.[/QUOTE]You should. If it isn't you, it will be someone else. She is the one proposing to meet, you aren't forcing her.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2853864]Remember one of my previous SBs who got married and I had mixed feelings?

She pings me yesterday out of nowhere that she was thinking about me and our time together. It seems innocent and she shared a few pics from her current life.

She ended with a "good to talk to you. Will let you know when I am around in town".

What are the odds that I will get to fuck her again? Should I / Shouldn't I?

She is one of those few nicest girls I have met and I would want the best for her. On one aide, I don't want sexual desires mess up her current life. On other hand, I have had amazing time with her. Chemisry and sex were always great when it lasted.[/QUOTE]The one who I just wrote about who got married? After thinking about it, turns out the last time she contacted me she had to already be married! At least I think so based on when she put that picture up on her FaceBook page and when I received her last text. And when she last contacted me, she said that she missed me and wanted to know if I wanted to see her. I turned her down at the time, not because she had married (I didn't know that then), but because I was going to be really, really busy with work and knew I wasn't going to have time for her (was the busiest time of the year for me). Besides, she had moved for good it seemed and was saying stuff like she didn't know if he could afford the gas, etc. I just wanted to go ahead and break any remaining dependency (both financial and emotional).

But hey, if she was back in this area for some reason (still has some family here) and she wanted to fuck? Damn straight I would fuck her again! And no condoms either. Just like before. She's too good looking not to be taking my sperm if I can dump it in her. I'm not going out of my way to do it. I don't want to get in her marriage. But if she was in town and called me and said, "Hey want to meet up"? Then I would. And then let the chips (and panties) fall where they may. She's the type who would have a fucked up marriage anyway. I can just anticipate that shit (a failed marriage). But, it won't be me who precipitates that. I'm no homewrecker. But, I wouldn't turn down an opportunity to "nut" inside of her beautiful, blonde, "Barbie" self again under the right set of circumstances. No siree Bob I wouldn't!

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2853835]I guess I was ahead of my time with my assessment of MDE and Colombian Chicks. There are still lots of hot ones, but they have been told they are the hottest girls in the world for several years and guys have been throwing money at them.[/QUOTE]I agree. I thought Medellin was over rated when I first went there fifteen years ago. Everyone talks about the great climate but when I was last there, every day was cold, raining, and overcast.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2853835]Elvis is correct about searching the smaller cities, but other guys will do the same.[/QUOTE]Of all the women I messaged in Cali, I think one had been on a date with a guy from seeking. The rest were seeking virgins. If I were doing seeking, I would focus on the newbies in Barranquilla and Bogota and all the women in Cali. I still think Barranquilla has the hottest women in the country. There are too many foreigners pumping up the egos of women in Cartagena and Medellin.

I would also print up a bunch of business cards and had them out to all the attractive women I met in the smaller towns and ask them about a side job where they could make more money. Even if I just hit one in twenty, that would be enough. If I can get a Colombian woman alone in a coffee shop, I could almost always close the deal.

My favorite city off the beaten path is Villa De Leyva, [URL]https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractions-g676524-Activities-Villa_de_Leyva_Boyaca_Department.html[/URL].

I didn't see anyone who was not Colombian there. Maybe not in that city but in the general area, you got people who leave their houses unlocked. Even though it is the same country, it is a far cry from the Medellin materialism.

[QUOTE=Intelligencium;2853869]You should. If it isn't you, it will be someone else. She is the one proposing to meet, you aren't forcing her.[/QUOTE]If he doesn't fuck her, then most assuredly someone else will. He didn't seek her out or try to mess anything up. But if she's around and wants to fuck? Just do it! Discretely LOL!

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2853786]Nah, it worked in 3 countries for over a decade and would work as well today as it would 2 or 3 years ago.

[/QUOTE]What makes you believe that? The world is changing, and it has changed a lot post-Covid. Nothing works forever.

I think I already posted about it, but a few weeks ago I messaged every attractive girl that has been online recently or is new on SA. Maybe 40-50 girls total. Probably 10 responded. 8 out of 10 would quote a price rate away. The remaining 2 didn't, however they were either very slow to respond or not available to meet, or a combination of both. So, in the end I have zero candidates to work with, if I ditch the ones who quoted me a price. Time is wasted, and if I don't entertain pros, I'm leaving MDE with a pair of blue balls. This is the reality of today's SA in Medellin. It's like Tinder, for example. In the States, Tinder doesn't work no matter how hard you try, especially in tier 1 cities. Literally, zero matches. I go to a place like Russia, and I got a shit ton of matches. Same profile, same photos, same opening messages. Now I'm thinking SA times in Colombia, at least in tier 1 cities, are over. Got to find a new alternative. Colombia has been a no brainer. Nice weather all year round, inexpensive, short flights from the States, and the same time more exotic than Mexico or DR. I have no clue what my next frequent destination will be.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2853921]What makes you believe that? The world is changing, and it has changed a lot post-Covid. Nothing works forever.

I think I already posted about it, but a few weeks ago I messaged every attractive girl that has been online recently or is new on SA. Maybe 40-50 girls total. Probably 10 responded. 8 out of 10 would quote a price rate away. The remaining 2 didn't, however they were either very slow to respond or not available to meet, or a combination of both. So, in the end I have zero candidates to work with, if I ditch the ones who quoted me a price. Time is wasted, and if I don't entertain pros, I'm leaving MDE with a pair of blue balls. This is the reality of today's SA in Medellin. It's like Tinder, for example. In the States, Tinder doesn't work no matter how hard you try, especially in tier 1 cities. Literally, zero matches. I go to a place like Russia, and I got a shit ton of matches. Same profile, same photos, same opening messages. Now I'm thinking SA times in Colombia, at least in tier 1 cities, are over. Got to find a new alternative. Colombia has been a no brainer. Nice weather all year round, inexpensive, short flights from the States, and the same time more exotic than Mexico or DR. I have no clue what my next frequent destination will be.[/QUOTE]You are correct about everything changing post Covid. Nothing is easy anymore, but there will also be opportunities. For those that work hard and have some money.

If traveling continues to get more expensive, this is going to cause everyone to make lifestyle changes. So there will be less competition in the more expensive destinations. This why I stick with MTY and CDMX.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2853903]I agree. I thought Medellin was over rated when I first went there fifteen years ago. Everyone talks about the great climate but when I was last there, every day was cold, raining, and overcast.

Of all the women I messaged in Cali, I think one had been on a date with a guy from seeking. The rest were seeking virgins. If I were doing seeking, I would focus on the newbies in Barranquilla and Bogota and all the women in Cali. I still think Barranquilla has the hottest women in the country. There are too many foreigners pumping up the egos of women in Cartagena and Medellin.

I would also print up a bunch of business cards and had them out to all the attractive women I met in the smaller towns and ask them about a side job where they could make more money. Even if I just hit one in twenty, that would be enough. If I can get a Colombian woman alone in a coffee shop, I could almost always close the deal.

My favorite city off the beaten path is Villa De Leyva, [URL]https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractions-g676524-Activities-Villa_de_Leyva_Boyaca_Department.html[/URL].

I didn't see anyone who was not Colombian there. Maybe not in that city but in the general area, you got people who leave their houses unlocked. Even though it is the same country, it is a far cry from the Medellin materialism.[/QUOTE]Handing out Business Cards is straight out of a the Italian Guys hand book. They use to do this when I was hanging out with them on Kiev and Moscow. Sounds crazy, but it works, great idea. Honestly we should all be doing that in are daily lives both professionally and socially.

[QUOTE=Foolish;2851914]Ted's 2 month experience (he has SBs in MDE and Sao Paulo) [URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2767316&viewfull=1#post2767316[/URL].

My read from his experience: get a hotel, have low expectations and have backups of backups haha.[/QUOTE]Thanks Foolish for linking Ted's post. A monger better stick to Colombia and Brazil instead of dealing with crazy Argies.

[QUOTE=KilledSoul;2853998]Thanks Foolish for linking Ted's post. A monger better stick to Colombia and Brazil instead of dealing with crazy Argies.[/QUOTE]Sorry, if you have any standards you will probably hate Colombia, especially MDE. Bogota is definitely better. If you want to talk about bad food and service, MDE is at the top for me, just horrible.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2853921]What makes you believe that? The world is changing, and it has changed a lot post-Covid. Nothing works forever.[/QUOTE]It was harder in the USA from 2014 to 2018 than Colombia is now. If I got two responses in a month, that was good.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2853921]I think I already posted about it, but a few weeks ago I messaged every attractive girl that has been online recently or is new on SA. Maybe 40-50 girls total. Probably 10 responded. 8 out of 10 would quote a price rate away. The remaining 2 didn't, however they were either very slow to respond or not available to meet, or a combination of both. So, in the end I have zero candidates to work with, if I ditch the ones who quoted me a price. Time is wasted, and if I don't entertain pros, I'm leaving MDE with a pair of blue balls.[/QUOTE]MB, I have been with my gal for 2 and a half years. Still, I have 20+ women in the 7 to 9 range in Colombia that I could text and they would see me pronto. On top of that, I have like 200 numbers total on whatsapp from seeking women and I saw one in five of these women at most. I wouldn't even have to go on the site to get or date new / strange. There is no way in Colombia I could ever have blue balls.

And you have been in Colombia way longer looking than I have. How come I have these numbers and you do not? The only thing I can come up with is that you are completely short term focused throwing out the good thinking the next one is going to be better. Honestly, the next one usually is not better than the last good one.

And when you have the good, sometimes the women volunteer up a GF or I will ask if she has a friend and is up for a trio. Some of the hottest women and best fucks I ever had were the friends of the women I had previously seen.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2854044]It was harder in the USA from 2014 to 2018 than Colombia is now. If I got two responses in a month, that was good.

MB, I have been with my gal for 2 and a half years. Still, I have 20+ women in the 7 to 9 range in Colombia that I could text and they would see me pronto. On top of that, I have like 200 numbers total on whatsapp from seeking women and I saw one in five of these women at most. I wouldn't even have to go on the site to get or date new / strange. There is no way in Colombia I could ever have blue balls.

And you have been in Colombia way longer looking than I have. How come I have these numbers and you do not? The only thing I can come up with is that you are completely short term focused throwing out the good thinking the next one is going to be better. Honestly, the next one usually is not better than the last good one.

And when you have the good, sometimes the women volunteer up a GF or I will ask if she has a friend and is up for a trio. Some of the hottest women and best fucks I ever had were the friends of the women I had previously seen.[/QUOTE]No, I'm not short term focused, I'm actually quite opposite. I prefer to have a roster of decent girls so that I don't have to start everything from scratch every time I come down there. The best time for me was 2020 and a year after, I had 4-5 good girls in rotation. But here is the problem. Good girls don't last long, they either get snatched by someone, or move to a better place / country, or just quit SA and pursue other goals. There is no way for me to keep these arrangements going for 2-3+ years. Heck, some even change phone numbers and delete social media without letting me know, I have lost many contacts this way. So, for me personally, this is not about finding the next girl that is hotter or better, this is about replacing them due to the reasons above. I'm sure they play the same game you are talking about and are always in search for a better SD. Once they find one, you get replaced.

BTW, I can guarantee that the vast majority of your 200 WhatsApp contacts are no longer available, and some numbers have been changed.

Has anybody been there and used Seeking? How is the dating scene?

I know it may be more dangerous than Colombia, and harder to get to, but I would like to give it a try someday, it is definitely off the beaten path and is not full of gringos. Venezuelan girls are good looking too.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2854166]Has anybody been there and used Seeking? How is the dating scene?

I know it may be more dangerous than Colombia, and harder to get to, but I would like to give it a try someday, it is definitely off the beaten path and is not full of gringos. Venezuelan girls are good looking too.[/QUOTE]The thing is, after the economic "miracle" of the left government, most good looking Venezuelan women are in Colombia (or other countries) already.

The biggest pro, as you said, is that being perceived as more dangerous than Colombia and not being full of gringos might make it as a very cheap destination for mongering. And well, good looking women are turning 18 every day, so there might be still some left in Venezuela.

Ok, so nothing else was coming up so I decided to have a dinner with that girl that was "no sex on a first date, I need connection, etc". We agreed on time and place and then she said she expected a gift. I asked what kind of gift and she said "400 in an envelope". I told her straight away I won't do that uprfont, and defineteley not if there is no intimacy. Her reply was predictable and pathetic "other men do that, so I guess we don't match". End of story.

I also wrote to few interesting girl in Montenegro where I'm going on a vacation soon, and nobody replied. Yeah, that's actually worse than "normal" dating apps so far.

[QUOTE=AluHut;2854403]Ok, so nothing else was coming up so I decided to have a dinner with that girl that was "no sex on a first date, I need connection, etc". We agreed on time and place and then she said she expected a gift. I asked what kind of gift and she said "400 in an envelope". I told her straight away I won't do that upfront, and definitely not if there is no intimacy. Her reply was predictable and pathetic "other men do that, so I guess we don't match". End of story.[/QUOTE]I'm glad you didn't pay her ass shit. If she's attractive enough, then there's no telling how much money she's taken from men while looking for a "connection" (and eating and drinking for free on their dime), when in fact, she had no intention of fucking ever. You tell her, "Well, I'm not other men. I'm my own man". For the short period of time I was on Seeking, I made it clear that I would not pay out a "gift" or "allowance" over a get-to-know meeting. Not under any circumstances. And if the girl wasn't down with that because that's what's other men did, or for whatever reason, then she could go find another sucker (I mean man) then!

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2854166]Has anybody been there and used Seeking? How is the dating scene?

I know it may be more dangerous than Colombia, and harder to get to, but I would like to give it a try someday, it is definitely off the beaten path and is not full of gringos. Venezuelan girls are good looking too.[/QUOTE]I had the same thought a few days ago. But I looked at the state department website. It's one of only a handful of countries, the US has issued a level 4 warning for. It's in bad company. Some of the other countries are like Sudan, Somalia, Iran, North Korea, etc. I immediately noped that.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2854418]I had the same thought a few days ago. But I looked at the state department website. It's one of only a handful of countries, the US has issued a level 4 warning for. It's in bad company. Some of the other countries are like Sudan, Somalia, Iran, North Korea, etc. I immediately noped that.[/QUOTE]I did some research, gave it a second thought and decided to pass, it's just not worth it. I would rather do Buenos Aires, at least the girls there do respond on Seeking. And even message me first, which is a good indicator.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2854434]I did some research, gave it a second thought and decided to pass, it's just not worth it. I would rather do Buenos Aires, at least the girls there do respond on Seeking. And even message me first, which is a good indicator.[/QUOTE]Hard American currency is so strong there right now. I bet you are going to be shooting fish in a barrel.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2854415]I'm glad you didn't pay her ass shit. If she's attractive enough, then there's no telling how much money she's taken from men while looking for a "connection" (and eating and drinking for free on their dime), when in fact, she had no intention of fucking ever. You tell her, "Well, I'm not other men. I'm my own man". For the short period of time I was on Seeking, I made it clear that I would not pay out a "gift" or "allowance" over a get-to-know meeting. Not under any circumstances. And if the girl wasn't down with that because that's what's other men did, or for whatever reason, then she could go find another sucker (I mean man) then![/QUOTE]There is is a lot high paying US guys here, for them that probably would be a steal. But I live here more than 5 years, and know the local market. She's not paying any taxes on that (unlike pros) so that's ridiculous rate for a dinner date without sex. It smelled from the start. Claim of genuine connection, but zero effort to maintain communication, and few other reddish flags. The worst part was this stupid attempt to pressure me by comparing to other men. WTF, who does she thinks she deals with, her 25 year old BF back in Poland?

Sarah is a whip smart pocket rocket half African and half Italian. We'the clicked at our first dinner a year ago and spent the weekend together in London spooning in my tiny twin bed. She's an amazing girl to hang with but the sex was a bit hit or Miss, given her extraordinarily tiny pussy and my girth. And her BJ was a bit meh but I really like this girl.

After spending several days together in the Mediterranean I saw her again in London one night and she was kinda lazy and wanted to watch Netflix and order in. Boo. So I ghosted her.

Gen Z are so sensitive with texting. After me not responding to two texts she deletes her acct and all my contact info! Fast forward to July and I get a CashApp for 1£ saying she misses me. Awwwwww. Clever girl. So after spending a few bucks in CashApp conversation LOL we reconnect. I decide to go full on honesty with her and tell her why I ghosted her. Good move because we reconnected this week in person and it was great.

First day was sightseeing and what fun with a girl in her local city. Lovely dinner. Lovely sex (she missed me alot!) and of course she's staying the next couple days. A couple highlights. First is that I gave her a bit of BJ coaching how to do harmonica. She may have seemed mildly offended but then took to it like a duck to water, blowing me forever and saying "god I love sucking your dick". Luv that. Def recommend doing a bit of BJ coaching. Wish I'the done it earlier. Don't be shy these girls aren't pros. I remember I did it with Alex back in 2019 and she gives a mind blowing BJ now.

Second highlight had nothing to do with sex! We went dancing at a gay club in London called Heaven. If you are a serious homophobe you might want to open your mind a little bit. I opened mine back with Thifany in the club in 2018 and twice went to gay clubs w my girl in tow since. It's an amazing free vibing party and it's completely harmless. Way more fun than the straight clubs. No one's going to try to fuck you in the ass. It's just a lot of people having fun. The one we went to is called Heaven and it was off the hook on a Monday! High recommend. We danced for 4. 5 hours straight I shit you not. I remember with Thifany that we ate like pigs but danced like idiots and I lost four pounds. Would not be surprised if the Steve Dance Diet worked its magic again!

Anyhow morale if the story: don't be afraid to:

Reconnect with your girl.

Coach on BJ.

Push outside your comfort zone.

Big payoffs all around. Have fun fellas!

[QUOTE=AluHut;2854499]There is is a lot high paying US guys here, for them that probably would be a steal. But I live here more than 5 years, and know the local market. She's not paying any taxes on that (unlike pros) so that's ridiculous rate for a dinner date without sex. It smelled from the start. Claim of genuine connection, but zero effort to maintain communication, and few other reddish flags. The worst part was this stupid attempt to pressure me by comparing to other men. WTF, who does she thinks she deals with, her 25 year old BF back in Poland?[/QUOTE]Yeah def recommend not doing the coffee date even unpaid. I did it once successfully but prob five fails and swore off it. And never ever ever a platonic dinner date. Dinner date with wine and take it to the room. Only sure fire method.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2854513]Yeah def recommend not doing the coffee date even unpaid. I did it once successfully but prob five fails and swore off it. And never ever ever a platonic dinner date. Dinner date with wine and take it to the room. Only sure fire method.[/QUOTE]Yep, in America Lunch dates are a huge waste of time. I do however do many lunch dates in Mexico. They know the deal and are ready for some afternoon delight.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2854513]Yeah def recommend not doing the coffee date even unpaid. I did it once successfully but prob five fails and swore off it. And never ever ever a platonic dinner date. Dinner date with wine and take it to the room. Only sure fire method.[/QUOTE]I only did a paid MG once. I normally do dinner plus after. Did it because girl wanted to meet to make sure comfortable before a real date. She was super smoking hot so I acquiesced. Offered 100 dollars. Figured I'the start strong to close the deal.

Within a few minutes I could tell she just showed up to clock that Benjamin and leave. It was obvious. I still paid because it was the agreement but I knew I'the been had within a few minutes. It was in the air.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2854801]I only did a paid MG once. I normally do dinner plus after. Did it because girl wanted to meet to make sure comfortable before a real date. She was super smoking hot so I acquiesced. Offered 100 dollars. Figured I'the start strong to close the deal.

Within a few minutes I could tell she just showed up to clock that Benjamin and leave. It was obvious. I still paid because it was the agreement but I knew I'the been had within a few minutes. It was in the air.[/QUOTE]Bad move, never pay unless there is intimacy.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2854842]Bad move, never pay unless there is intimacy.[/QUOTE]Yeah from what I see Pi is pretty experienced now. But we all make rookie mistakes starting out with Seeking. And the paid for meetup is def always a scam. The other common scams to watch for:

1. Can't wait to meet up. Let me send you some pics for $xx in the meantime.

2. Really love chatting with you. Can't wait to meet up. Damn I didn't have lunch can you CashApp me some pizza money?

3. I'm on my way but damn I ran out of gas. Can you CashApp me $40?

I've run into all of these. Mostly early on. The last one is the most frustrating. I was literally at the restaurant when she pulled that shit. Older and wiser now.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2854965]Yeah from what I see Pi is pretty experienced now. But we all make rookie mistakes starting out with Seeking. And the paid for meetup is def always a scam. The other common scams to watch for:

1. Can't wait to meet up. Let me send you some pics for $xx in the meantime.

2. Really love chatting with you. Can't wait to meet up. Damn I didn't have lunch can you CashApp me some pizza money?

3. I'm on my way but damn I ran out of gas. Can you CashApp me $40?

I've run into all of these. Mostly early on. The last one is the most frustrating. I was literally at the restaurant when she pulled that shit. Older and wiser now.[/QUOTE]One of them tried to pull that on me the other day. First said she needed me to send money for the taxi. I told her I would send an Uber. She says no because she had a bad experience with that in the past with other men. OK, I'll pay for the taxi in cash upon arrival. Again that was a problem. I told her I don't have any Colombian cash applications to send money. She has PayPal, but I had already scheduled someone else and told her I couldn't meet.

She immediately replies asking if I could send her some money upfront because she hasn't been eating well and needs to pay her rent. I told her because our PayPal accounts are in different countries, it would take at least a week and up to a month to clear, so it would be faster to meet and pay her in cash. She says something like "that's ok because they will give me time if I show them the money pending in her account". I didn't reply and deleted her contact.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2854965]Yeah from what I see Pi is pretty experienced now. But we all make rookie mistakes starting out with Seeking. And the paid for meetup is def always a scam. The other common scams to watch for:

1. Can't wait to meet up. Let me send you some pics for $xx in the meantime.

2. Really love chatting with you. Can't wait to meet up. Damn I didn't have lunch can you CashApp me some pizza money?

3. I'm on my way but damn I ran out of gas. Can you CashApp me $40?

I've run into all of these. Mostly early on. The last one is the most frustrating. I was literally at the restaurant when she pulled that shit. Older and wiser now.[/QUOTE]I got hit with a variant of your no. 3. It wasn't that they had ran out of gas, but wanted to stop at the gas station along the way to get some. I just laughed it off and said "nice try", then enjoyed my dinner. Then a fourth scam is getting hit up for babysitter money at the last minute. Guys, never go for these bullshit scams. Because if you do, you'll never see the scammer, nor your money ever again.

In the US, add things like.

- Oh, I need to find a sitter for my grandparents / kids during the time I am woth you. Mind sending $xx?

- Constant reminder that phone dies frequently (aka get me an iPhone).

- I wish I had airpods. I could talk to you while at work / school.

Normally, I treat girls with respect. And that is when magic happens.

But, I must admit I am at my rude best in the US. I figured I got nothing to lose with these platinum pussies. So, once I reaponded "you will get airpods in your ears when you take my dick in your pussy. If you have one, that is".

I felt bad after but hell. These "women" have got on my nerves.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2854965]Yeah from what I see Pi is pretty experienced now. But we all make rookie mistakes starting out with Seeking. And the paid for meetup is def always a scam. The other common scams to watch for:

1. Can't wait to meet up. Let me send you some pics for $xx in the meantime.

2. Really love chatting with you. Can't wait to meet up. Damn I didn't have lunch can you CashApp me some pizza money?

3. I'm on my way but damn I ran out of gas. Can you CashApp me $40?

I've run into all of these. Mostly early on. The last one is the most frustrating. I was literally at the restaurant when she pulled that shit. Older and wiser now.[/QUOTE]

Today's my last day in Bogota. I hooked up with 2 new women from Seeking this week (in addition to my regular one I met last year). The sex is better compared to the average escort, but when you do find an escort who gives great service and makes you want to repeat the next day, it makes you wonder if it's still work the effort and additional expense to keep searching for new Seeking women to add to the roster.

I'll be in Cartagena this week with my Bogota regular and will probably try to meet at least a new one when she leaves midway through my stay.

I also have 2. 5 regulars in Medellin I will see after that, though I'm not too sure about the. 5 one because she doesn't stay as long as my main 2. I might try to replace her with one or two new ones from Seeking, but I just started on that search today.

What I like about my 1 regular in Bogota and 2 regulars in Medellin is that we can chill for most of the day or I could go on trips with them without the primary focus being sex (though of course we do have sex). The familiarity is great, but sometimes you just want to have a quick session with someone new in between like an escort. The contrast between the two keeps things interesting during trips. Having too many Seeking women doesn't seem like a great return on money especially because you're not going to click with all of them on the same level as the ones you want to keep.

Agree with the point of view.

A different dynamic when there comes a certain trust element and bareback comes in to play. I have a couple regular escorts with whom I have great chemistry and go see them just to see them. But never went bareback.

With seeking girls, those that are next door girl types, barebacking is what I pay the pemium for.

Even better if CIP / CIM are thrown in to the mix.

You know. Showering together, she puts soap on me, I on her, junior is ready, she is wet. I don't have to look for condoms. Slide it in and fuck in the shower.

I was with a 9 (will add pic later) in Spain. Seafacing balcony, we both enjoying some rose, things heat up, she is playing with my dick and then settles between my legs. While I am still on the lounge, gives me a fabulous blowjob, and says "You are so hard. I want this inside me" and goes on to straddle me (still in the same position), lifts her skirt, pushes her panty yo side, takes me all the way in. Rides me till I cum inside her, collapses on me with heavy breathing (I'm sucking her nipples), and then, with the dick still inside we go "cheers" and drink wine.

That is what I pay the premium for. When I say premium. These are 300 EUR over night girls.

[QUOTE=VoodooJones;2855196]Today's my last day in Bogota. I hooked up with 2 new women from Seeking this week (in addition to my regular one I met last year). The sex is better compared to the average escort, but when you do find an escort who gives great service and makes you want to repeat the next day, it makes you wonder if it's still work the effort and additional expense to keep searching for new Seeking women to add to the roster.

I'll be in Cartagena this week with my Bogota regular and will probably try to meet at least a new one when she leaves midway through my stay.

I also have 2. 5 regulars in Medellin I will see after that, though I'm not too sure about the. 5 one because she doesn't stay as long as my main 2. I might try to replace her with one or two new ones from Seeking, but I just started on that search today.

What I like about my 1 regular in Bogota and 2 regulars in Medellin is that we can chill for most of the day or I could go on trips with them without the primary focus being sex (though of course we do have sex). The familiarity is great, but sometimes you just want to have a quick session with someone new in between like an escort. The contrast between the two keeps things interesting during trips. Having too many Seeking women doesn't seem like a great return on money especially because you're not going to click with all of them on the same level as the ones you want to keep.[/QUOTE]

Here is the balcony girl.

We have had quite a few exhilarating (s) experiences but the balcony fuck takes the cake because it was so impromptu, so organic, so into each other that it felt heavenly.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2855258]Agree with the point of view.

A different dynamic when there comes a certain trust element and bareback comes in to play. I have a couple regular escorts with whom I have great chemistry and go see them just to see them. But never went bareback.

With seeking girls, those that are next door girl types, barebacking is what I pay the pemium for.

Even better if CIP / CIM are thrown in to the mix.

You know. Showering together, she puts soap on me, I on her, junior is ready, she is wet. I don't have to look for condoms. Slide it in and fuck in the shower.

I was with a 9 (will add pic later) in Spain. Seafacing balcony, we both enjoying some rose, things heat up, she is playing with my dick and then settles between my legs. While I am still on the lounge, gives me a fabulous blowjob, and says "You are so hard. I want this inside me" and goes on to straddle me (still in the same position), lifts her skirt, pushes her panty yo side, takes me all the way in. Rides me till I cum inside her, collapses on me with heavy breathing (I'm sucking her nipples), and then, with the dick still inside we go "cheers" and drink wine.

That is what I pay the premium for. When I say premium. These are 300 EUR over night girls.[/QUOTE]

I know this is a question for USA but I am not known there. So coming to my buddies here. Seems LA hs a lively Kgirl scene. Maybe booked directly but seems you need a recommendation or a handler. There is also KTV but unsure how to locate a girls KTV vs family place. My friend speaks Korean so that should help.

Anyone have any intel or pointers? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to spill the tea here. Thanks!

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2855598]Here is the balcony girl.

We have had quite a few exhilarating (s) experiences but the balcony fuck takes the cake because it was so impromptu, so organic, so into each other that it felt heavenly.[/QUOTE]I'm so envious. So far my SA experience in Frankfurt has been awful. Half of the girls just don't reply at all, unfortunatley those are the ones I like most from the photos. Those that reply don't really stand out in anything. Or conversation dies after a day or two. One girl from Montengro (going for vacation soon) just blocked me after I've sent her a reminder after I noticed she read my message. It feels exactly like more expensive Tinder, LOL. I also get unsolicited contacts, but those girls are just young bimbos or semi-pros, so hard skip on them.

[QUOTE=AluHut;2855996]I'm so envious. So far my SA experience in Frankfurt has been awful. Half of the girls just don't reply at all, unfortunatley those are the ones I like most from the photos. Those that reply don't really stand out in anything. Or conversation dies after a day or two. One girl from Montengro (going for vacation soon) just blocked me after I've sent her a reminder after I noticed she read my message. It feels exactly like more expensive Tinder, LOL. I also get unsolicited contacts, but those girls are just young bimbos or semi-pros, so hard skip on them.[/QUOTE]Yep. It's a tough go. But so worth it once you find the gem in the pile of bullshit. Never done Frankfurt tho on Seeking. What other geographies have you tried?

It’s not surprising half don’t reply. That’s standard even for experienced guys. It’s a number game. U gotta be on all the time and working it.

P.S. How's your text game? Are u Reasonably non objectionable and fit? Do u end every interaction with a question to keep the game flowing? Where do you think the drop off is?

Text game is an interesting point.

So far, I haven't had a problem but recently, I had two extremes.

Two girls. Worth it and repeatable. We met, great chemistry, decent sex, not money oriented. So, wanted to meet them a few more times and see if they are worth moving into my Top tier (the ones I give money even without sex).

One of them told me "Its a little difficult and you seem less connected".

Other one, for all practical purposes, told me I am texting a lot.

Mind you. Both of them are more like once a week or fortnight, few texts to stay in touch. Same levelmof attention and being cautious that they have their own lives. So, I don't get desperate and message a lot.

How do you figure what is optimal for a given girl and any tips on how to hit that sweet spot?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2856003]Yep. It's a tough go. But so worth it once you find the gem in the pile of bullshit. Never done Frankfurt tho on Seeking. What other geographies have you tried?

Its not surprising half dont reply. Thats standard even for experienced guys. Its a number game. U gotta be on all the time and working it.

P.S. How's your text game? Are u Reasonably non objectionable and fit? Do u end every interaction with a question to keep the game flowing? Where do you think the drop off is?[/QUOTE]

Impossible to answer. There are as many answers as there are girls in the world. My longest term girl NEVER texted. Only to set a date. I met a Dr in an Eastern European country who would text for hours and it only worked for me because 1) she was interesting and 2) I own the business so I can goof off as much as I want. That time difference really worked well for us.

You need to follow her lead, if she texts you text, if not, you don't it's that simple. Forcing it in either direction is going to turn her off.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2856201]Text game is an interesting point.

So far, I haven't had a problem but recently, I had two extremes.

Two girls. Worth it and repeatable. We met, great chemistry, decent sex, not money oriented. So, wanted to meet them a few more times and see if they are worth moving into my Top tier (the ones I give money even without sex).

One of them told me "Its a little difficult and you seem less connected".

Other one, for all practical purposes, told me I am texting a lot.

Mind you. Both of them are more like once a week or fortnight, few texts to stay in touch. Same levelmof attention and being cautious that they have their own lives. So, I don't get desperate and message a lot.

How do you figure what is optimal for a given girl and any tips on how to hit that sweet spot?[/QUOTE]

I posted about my experiences in Germany previously but it is possible and you are correct about the difficulty. Nabbed actual German girls in two cities and a Spanish girl in another city. Had plans to meet with 1 or two others as backups but they all flaked (they were not German either so I didn't lose any sleep, I wanted the Germans).

Still in touch with one but the other one is upset with me after not giving her an outrageous sum for joining me here at home, and being open and honest about my experiences on the site.

[QUOTE=AluHut;2855996]I'm so envious. So far my SA experience in Frankfurt has been awful. Half of the girls just don't reply at all, unfortunatley those are the ones I like most from the photos. Those that reply don't really stand out in anything. Or conversation dies after a day or two. One girl from Montengro (going for vacation soon) just blocked me after I've sent her a reminder after I noticed she read my message. It feels exactly like more expensive Tinder, LOL. I also get unsolicited contacts, but those girls are just young bimbos or semi-pros, so hard skip on them.[/QUOTE]

Anyone done sugaring in Budapest? It seems like it's thin out there on SA and I can't seem to get a payment thru on what seems like a local variant Punc.

Anyone had any luck or tips to penetrate the sugar trade there? .

I like this idea. Mirror their behavior is what you are saying essentially.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2856216]Impossible to answer. There are as many answers as there are girls in the world. My longest term girl NEVER texted. Only to set a date. I met a Dr in an Eastern European country who would text for hours and it only worked for me because 1) she was interesting and 2) I own the business so I can goof off as much as I want. That time difference really worked well for us.

You need to follow her lead, if she texts you text, if not, you don't it's that simple. Forcing it in either direction is going to turn her off.[/QUOTE]

Not intending to poke here. Please don't feel compelled to answer.

"Joining me at home" = Joining in US? If yes, how do you manage / coach her on "purpose of visit" at entry?

My favorite regulars are in Europe and I am not flying them here just being cautious. Have always wondered if I am being paranoid or cautious.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2856217]I posted about my experiences in Germany previously but it is possible and you are correct about the difficulty. Nabbed actual German girls in two cities and a Spanish girl in another city. Had plans to meet with 1 or two others as backups but they all flaked (they were not German either so I didn't lose any sleep, I wanted the Germans).

Still in touch with one but the other one is upset with me after not giving her an outrageous sum for joining me here at home, and being open and honest about my experiences on the site.[/QUOTE]

I will be in Frankfurt mid-Nov. Trying to have my Spain girl foy in the same day. If she is able to join, I am busy with her.

If not, I have Sharks or Oase as backup options. Been really long while since I hit FKK. Happy to hang out there if any of you would like to.

[QUOTE=AluHut;2855996]I'm so envious. So far my SA experience in Frankfurt has been awful. Half of the girls just don't reply at all, unfortunatley those are the ones I like most from the photos. Those that reply don't really stand out in anything. Or conversation dies after a day or two. One girl from Montengro (going for vacation soon) just blocked me after I've sent her a reminder after I noticed she read my message. It feels exactly like more expensive Tinder, LOL. I also get unsolicited contacts, but those girls are just young bimbos or semi-pros, so hard skip on them.[/QUOTE]

But I'll also add then when we were together it was always fireworks, beautiful girl, never ran out if stuff to talk about (both of us) and we'd blab for hours. I ended up chasing her away and I was overcome with emotion and heartbroken for several months. Cost me a very expensive car, almost my life, and a bottle of Glenfidich Gran Cru. Not the proudest moment in my like but it was as real as it gets with someone and I was devastated. I'm still punishing myself for loosing her. And she's the only reason I keep returning to the site but it's futile she was one of a kind for me.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2856367]I like this idea. Mirror their behavior is what you are saying essentially.[/QUOTE]

Yes, expensive US coastal city. She didn't need a visa but the second part of your question is easy. They cut a lot of slack to Schengen countries, especially a rich one like Germany. She can tell them she's coming to see her boyfriend that she met in FRA.

I think you're being paranoid, if they are from a developed / wealthy country with a high standard of living they won't have problems. If you educate yourself on the laws which are all on the dhs website they even tell you want strategies will work within the confines of existing law. E. g. Did you know that if you don't want to wait for a fiance to bring a girl here she can come in as a tourist (with some hopes to jump through. You go to the courthouse, get married and immediately change her status from tourist to permanent resident and it is 100% legal. If you just want to bang a hot 20 yr old with no assets or job and in a less developed country you'll have problems but insurmountable.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2856369]Not intending to poke here. Please don't feel compelled to answer.

"Joining me at home" = Joining in US? If yes, how do you manage / coach her on "purpose of visit" at entry?

My favorite regulars are in Europe and I am not flying them here just being cautious. Have always wondered if I am being paranoid or cautious.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2856684]Yes, expensive US coastal city. She didn't need a visa but the second part of your question is easy. They cut a lot of slack to Schengen countries, especially a rich one like Germany. She can tell them she's coming to see her boyfriend that she met in FRA.

I think you're being paranoid, if they are from a developed / wealthy country with a high standard of living they won't have problems. If you educate yourself on the laws which are all on the dhs website they even tell you want strategies will work within the confines of existing law. E. g. Did you know that if you don't want to wait for a fiance to bring a girl here she can come in as a tourist (with some hopes to jump through. You go to the courthouse, get married and immediately change her status from tourist to permanent resident and it is 100% legal. If you just want to bang a hot 20 yr old with no assets or job and in a less developed country you'll have problems but insurmountable.[/QUOTE]Very timely discussion as I just sealed the deal to fly my UK SA girlfriend to US this morning! I am with you GFE about being a little paranoid. She's UK so like FB says prob not a big deal. But just the same I sent her money for the ticket and had her book it rather than me being on the record flying a foreigner to US (I've done it to other countries but US are such puritanical Jesus freaks didn't want to take any chances).

I know she adores me so I took a page out of GFEfans (and Elvis) playbook and went for the no pay play. I told her tickets are expensive so I couldn't give you allowance and she said no problem. She's fine just being my GF. Sweet. I will prob give her 100-200/ day to cover food and transport since I'm going to be busy. But super nice to know she will see me for free. BB no less.

I traveled to Budapest and Prague in 2019. Yes, I did bang one chick in Budapest during my stay there as I was there for an international conference. Her allowance was 200 Euro for a 4/5 hour meet. She was around 35. I liked her pic and started chatting with her around 2 weeks before my arrival. It was a very nice experience with her and we were in touch before she got married and shifted to another European country. I also met a chick in Starbucks over a coffee date early morning before she went for college. She was a student from Georgia doing masters in Budapest University. Slim, trim, beautiful and good knowledge of English but couldn't get her laid as our schedules didn't align.

The SA scene is very much active and vibrant in Budapest. I had plans to go again before this pandemic screwed all plans.

Regards.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2856292]Anyone done sugaring in Budapest? It seems like it's thin out there on SA and I can't seem to get a payment thru on what seems like a local variant Punc.

Anyone had any luck or tips to penetrate the sugar trade there? .[/QUOTE]

This one woman from Bogota mentioned in her profile that she doesn't go on dates for free. I assumed this was just her being coy meaning she doesn't have sex for free, but nope, when I messaged her, it was clear she wanted me to pay just to see her without any talk of going back to my apartment. I left her last message on unread. If she was being this ridiculous before we even met, I already knew it would be a bad experience where she's asking for an excessive amount. Besides, she doesn't speak English and my Spanish is lacking, so what the fuck would be the point? I have no problem conversing through translation apps, but I'm not paying for conversation.

Today as I was unsharing my private photos with the women I didn't go through with, I noticed she deleted that part from her profile. Guess she couldn't find an easy mark to pay for her the privilege of her shitty company.

Sweet.

Yeah, most of them say "yes" when there is a chemistry going on and positioned appropriately. Saves money for us, gives experience to them, and a great company for each other both in and outside bedroom. Win-win all around.

(some of them will otherwise never get to see the places I took them to. Meaning not fancy places but out of beaten path places such as a hiking place in Switzerland.).

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2856806]
I know she adores me so I took a page out of GFEfans (and Elvis) playbook and went for the no pay play. I told her tickets are expensive so I couldn't give you allowance and she said no problem. She's fine just being my GF. Sweet. I will prob give her 100-200/ day to cover food and transport since I'm going to be busy. But super nice to know she will see me for free. BB no less.[/QUOTE]

As I've said before, I never agree to pay for a first meeting. I've also found that most of the girls who ask for such a thing don't last long. They either delete their profiles altogether or go inactive. The thought of paying a girl for her time is laughable, my time is far more valuable than hers and she has way more to lose than I do (a regular reliable SD). Frankly if they don't know that or can't figure it out, they are going to be way to dull to have anything other than a sexual relationship with and I want a little more than that. I'm not remotely misogynistic though this post may have come across that way.

The other type that amuses me is they ask "what are you offering?" Within the first few messages. I'm not offering shit until I know I stand to be in a room with you for more than 10 min. These are prostitutes that have convinced themselves they're not prostitutes. BTW I have no issue with them, used them plenty of times but that's not why I pay almost 300/ mo to meet these girls. My best relationships have all been ones where money was discussed after we decided we didn't weird each other out (in person).

[QUOTE=VoodooJones;2857285]This one woman from Bogota mentioned in her profile that she doesn't go on dates for free. I assumed this was just her being coy meaning she doesn't have sex for free, but nope, when I messaged her, it was clear she wanted me to pay just to see her without any talk of going back to my apartment. I left her last message on unread. If she was being this ridiculous before we even met, I already knew it would be a bad experience where she's asking for an excessive amount. Besides, she doesn't speak English and my Spanish is lacking, so what the fuck would be the point? I have no problem conversing through translation apps, but I'm not paying for conversation.

Today as I was unsharing my private photos with the women I didn't go through with, I noticed she deleted that part from her profile. Guess she couldn't find an easy mark to pay for her the privilege of her shitty company.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=VoodooJones;2857285]This one woman from Bogota mentioned in her profile that she doesn't go on dates for free. I assumed this was just her being coy meaning she doesn't have sex for free, but nope, when I messaged her, it was clear she wanted me to pay just to see her without any talk of going back to my apartment. I left her last message on unread. If she was being this ridiculous before we even met, I already knew it would be a bad experience where she's asking for an excessive amount. Besides, she doesn't speak English and my Spanish is lacking, so what the fuck would be the point? I have no problem conversing through translation apps, but I'm not paying for conversation.

Today as I was unsharing my private photos with the women I didn't go through with, I noticed she deleted that part from her profile. Guess she couldn't find an easy mark to pay for her the privilege of her shitty company.[/QUOTE]I was thinking back the other day on some of the funny exchanges I had on Seeking. I remember one woman saying to me that I couldn't afford her. I thought, "Now isn't this some bullshit? Here she is with her panties down and hand out talking about what somebody else can and cannot afford"! LOLOLOL! I mean these American women with their "platinum pussy" and "golden asshole" attitudes! By the way, anybody seen the new main page yet? Shit makes me literally laugh out loud LOL! So, that's how it works huh? Please LMAO!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2856806]Very timely discussion as I just sealed the deal to fly my UK SA girlfriend to US this morning! I am with you GFE about being a little paranoid. She's UK so like FB says prob not a big deal. But just the same I sent her money for the ticket and had her book it rather than me being on the record flying a foreigner to US (I've done it to other countries but US are such puritanical Jesus freaks didn't want to take any chances).

I know she adores me so I took a page out of GFEfans (and Elvis) playbook and went for the no pay play. I told her tickets are expensive so I couldn't give you allowance and she said no problem. She's fine just being my GF. Sweet. I will prob give her 100-200/ day to cover food and transport since I'm going to be busy. But super nice to know she will see me for free. BB no less.[/QUOTE]I'm from the UK and use Seeking. It's great over here. So is there a reason you chose someone thousands of miles away v a local in the USA? And have you actually met her before you paid to fly her out. Isn't that risky? Never done that myself.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2855258]Agree with the point of view.

A different dynamic when there comes a certain trust element and bareback comes in to play. I have a couple regular escorts with whom I have great chemistry and go see them just to see them. But never went bareback.

With seeking girls, those that are next door girl types, barebacking is what I pay the pemium for.

Even better if CIP / CIM are thrown in to the mix.

You know. Showering together, she puts soap on me, I on her, junior is ready, she is wet. I don't have to look for condoms. Slide it in and fuck in the shower.

I was with a 9 (will add pic later) in Spain. Seafacing balcony, we both enjoying some rose, things heat up, she is playing with my dick and then settles between my legs. While I am still on the lounge, gives me a fabulous blowjob, and says "You are so hard. I want this inside me" and goes on to straddle me (still in the same position), lifts her skirt, pushes her panty yo side, takes me all the way in. Rides me till I cum inside her, collapses on me with heavy breathing (I'm sucking her nipples), and then, with the dick still inside we go "cheers" and drink wine.

That is what I pay the premium for. When I say premium. These are 300 EUR over night girls.[/QUOTE]Interesting post. I've only ever done BB once with a Seeking girl bc I'm a bit paranoid about STIs etc. Being honest, how many girls from Seeking have you done BB with and did you ever catch anything? I really love the BB experience bc cumming with a condom is becoming increasingly difficult, and I'd never do BB with an escort (not that they offer) but with the normal Seeking girls it's really tempting.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2856003]Yep. It's a tough go. But so worth it once you find the gem in the pile of bullshit. Never done Frankfurt tho on Seeking. What other geographies have you tried?

Its not surprising half dont reply. Thats standard even for experienced guys. Its a number game. U gotta be on all the time and working it.

P.S. How's your text game? Are u Reasonably non objectionable and fit? Do u end every interaction with a question to keep the game flowing? Where do you think the drop off is?[/QUOTE]50% is my experience too, but with so so many girls to choose from on Seeking in places like London, Paris, Berlin, it doesn't matter, I'm only looking for one at a time. Never takes more than 10 days to line up a few meet and greets and go with one awesome girl. Usual ppm is 300-400 Euro / GBP, sometimes no ppm is even requested. Dates are min 4 hours and I choose women I want to get to know not just fuck.

[QUOTE=JonnySutton;2857748]Interesting post. I've only ever done BB once with a Seeking girl bc I'm a bit paranoid about STIs etc. Being honest, how many girls from Seeking have you done BB with and did you ever catch anything? I really love the BB experience bc cumming with a condom is becoming increasingly difficult, and I'd never do BB with an escort (not that they offer) but with the normal Seeking girls it's really tempting.[/QUOTE]With all respect, you are playing with fire.

This idea that city girls are just innocent college students who need a helping hand is nonsense. Those are out there. I've met a few. But I'm also really good conversationalist. Interviewing is an important part of my job. I'm telling you from experience, by the time a girl gets to the point that she's accepting money for sex, it's far from the first risky. Thing she's done. If you want to have an internal chuckle, ask the girls politely how much experience they have on the site and marvel at how many of them will tell you you are the first or second one, or that apart from a long-term relationship that ended, you are the first. At this point I just ask because I want to confirm I will be lied to.

And it's fine. I lie too. To mask myself. Its all a fiction.

Anyways, you're playing with fire. Some diseases are forever. And they're out there in big numbers. And for obvious reasons, the proportion is much higher amongst this population. If they're bare backing with you, have a little bit of humility, and realize that you are not the first one to ask or receive. And if the kind of people who ask for that are by definition, engaging in risky behavior, and are more likely to have forever gifts to give.

Since free members are only allowed 10 messages is it worth the time to message non premium members as they might not be able to reply to you. What is the best way rj go about this?

[QUOTE=JonnySutton;2857743]I'm from the UK and use Seeking. It's great over here. So is there a reason you chose someone thousands of miles away v a local in the USA? And have you actually met her before you paid to fly her out. Isn't that risky? Never done that myself.[/QUOTE]I would never ever fly someone I haven't met. We met about a year ago and spent the weekend together in London. Then flew her to the Mediterranean for a week. Then lost touch for 9 months. Then rekindled a few weeks back in London. So we have a bit of an ongoing thing. Plenty of girls in the states I coulda flown in, including my GF, but Sarah was really jazzed and we were taking the London momentum forward.

Whereas I won't fly a girl I don't know I am pretty ballsy about flying girls I have only known a few hours. It backfired once but has generally been great. Here's what I recall. First number is how many HOURs we had known each other before I flew her someplace. These all were amazing.

Thifany 5 - Brazil to London (crazy!

Alexa 7 - La Vegas to Miami.

Mika 6- Philly to Dallas.

Sarah 32 - London to Mallorca.

Dayana 3 - Madrid to Athens.

I feel like once you vibe you vibe. So far so good, save one fail in 2019.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2856806]She's UK so like FB says prob not a big deal. But just the same I sent her money for the ticket and had her book it rather than me being on the record flying a foreigner to US (I've done it to other countries but US are such puritanical Jesus freaks didn't want to take any chances).[/QUOTE]That is a good move Steve. It would be harder for someone to say you violated the Mann Act.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2856806]I know she adores me so I took a page out of GFEfans (and Elvis) playbook and went for the no pay play. I told her tickets are expensive so I couldn't give you allowance and she said no problem. She's fine just being my GF. Sweet. I will prob give her 100-200/ day to cover food and transport since I'm going to be busy. But super nice to know she will see me for free. BB no less.[/QUOTE]I responded to a post with Miami Boy where I seemingly contradicted myself because there have been men's rights groups saying if your wife does not put out sexually, and you are the provider, you should leave your wife, and I agree with that. So I think it is important to let wifey know no sex means no money and no marriage.

But OTOH, I am saying try not to offer any money up front. To me, when the woman sees you without a price, it signifies she is interested in you and a long term relationship and is willing to give you a free sample to draw you in. Once a woman draws me in and I care about her, then I am going to want to financially take care of her. I also feel like I am helping and giving to someone who appreciates me versus some hooker who could care less about me and vice versa. And because I am giving money to someone I care about and feel good doing so, those women inevitably get more out of me than the cold hearted snake with a price.

One of the reasons I had sugar babies is that for some reason so many women think after three or so months that they do not have to put out. I saw this again and again so I kept sugar babies and if there was no sex, there was no $. It was not just no sex, but it was do I really want to be with someone if I have to ask for or demand sex from them? I thought and still think if a woman does not make having sex with her man a priority, then he is not a priority to her.

So the goal IMO is that she gives you sex because she cares about you, and you give her $ because you care about her.

One of the men's rights guys, Rich Cooper, researched the subject and said that desire from women in a marriage goes down much more quickly than with men. Once I heard that, I was like, "Fine, fuck it, I will just have sugar babies" and then I found a woman who likes sex as much if not more than I do. Life is so weird that way.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2856806]Very timely discussion as I just sealed the deal to fly my UK SA girlfriend to US this morning! I am with you GFE about being a little paranoid. She's UK so like FB says prob not a big deal. But just the same I sent her money for the ticket and had her book it rather than me being on the record flying a foreigner to US (I've done it to other countries but US are such puritanical Jesus freaks didn't want to take any chances).[/QUOTE]Yeah, that is smart, Steve. The Mann Act is a pretty scary law and human trafficking is being listed as a threat to humanity in multiple airports around the world. Obviously, it was not meant for what you or I are and were doing, but you never know. It just takes one crazy prosecutor to ruin your life.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2856806]I know she adores me so I took a page out of GFEfans (and Elvis) playbook and went for the no pay play. I told her tickets are expensive so I couldn't give you allowance and she said no problem. She's fine just being my GF. Sweet. I will prob give her 100-200/ day to cover food and transport since I'm going to be busy. But super nice to know she will see me for free. BB no less.[/QUOTE]Midwestern said in his experience the women who ask for less get more, and I noticed that too. I think it is because as a guy I felt appreciated when I gave money and cared about the woman. I felt like I was giving and helping and being appreciated versus paying an expense to a cold hearted snake.

And I wonder if the women who are willing to have sex without a price are more confident as well. They are in essence offering up a free sample and they know they are so good that you will come back for more. For me, it is a matter of pride to provide for the women I cared about, but I am not going to care about a woman solely interested in money.

I have been listening to the men's rights guys on youtube and in the past, they were women haters but now I am seeing more research based advice. Anyway, they were saying if you have a woman not putting out you dump her, and that includes a wife. Thing is when I dated I noticed that after three months women did not make fucking me a priority. I know you had one woman you told to make it a priority and she did, and I think guys should do that. Maybe that is all it takes. When I had my foursome adventure in Mexico, I told one of the women I didn't get off the night before, and she felt so badly, she apologized and dropped to her knees right then and sucked me off. LOL. Got to love those Latinas.

I just thought getting SBs was easier because I didn't have to tell them I needed sex. It was no sex, no $. I just felt weird saying, "Hey, you need to meet my sexual needs. " My preference would be that I care about the woman and provide her with money and she cares about me and provides sex, but I was really reluctant to give away my power of the purse again and the men's rights guys were saying women lose desire in a relationship much quicker than men do. So I was like "okay, then I guess I will just have sugar babies" where I do not give up my power because a real relationship will always mean less sex.

Of course, once I made up my mind about that, I found a woman who likes and needs sex more than I do. It is funny how life works.

[QUOTE=JonnySutton;2857748]Interesting post. I've only ever done BB once with a Seeking girl bc I'm a bit paranoid about STIs etc. Being honest, how many girls from Seeking have you done BB with and did you ever catch anything? I really love the BB experience bc cumming with a condom is becoming increasingly difficult, and I'd never do BB with an escort (not that they offer) but with the normal Seeking girls it's really tempting.[/QUOTE]JS,

I said this before on the Medellin forum, and I will repeat it here. There is a belief among American public health officials that antibiotics and antivirals should be reserved for STI treatment and condoms used for prevention of STIs because if the antibiotics and antivirals are used, there will be bacterial resistance and these drugs will no longer work. I understood that but then I went abroad and saw that anyone could buy antibiotics and antivirals over the counter. I also read about how overused these same drugs are with animals. I was like, "Fuck it, if these work better, and I can have better sex, I am going for it. " The other big thing is I read a large study where condoms did not work for most STIs that came out 20 years ago. Now it is a monologue among public health officials that condoms work for STIs, and they have studies to back them up, but I am pretty skeptical of them.

So I had an antibiotic and antiviral regimen I would use when I barebacked a girl whom I thought was risky. I would ask the women if they were clean and do it in such a way that they could answer honestly. To prevent pregnancy, I used plan be which is 1.5 MG of the female hormone levogestrel which is also available over the counter even in the USA. The women were actually thankful when I gave it to them. A few of the women had cramping and bleeding afterwards and were reluctant to take it a second time so that was an issue with some. When I was with a woman for longer, I would buy a Depoprovera shot on line and give it to the women every 3 months. Again, most took it fine, and many liked not having periods but others had cramping and bleeding with it and did not like it.

Levogestrel prevents ovulation so you should have a woman take it as soon as after sex as possible. If the egg has been released into the Fallopian tube, it does no good at all. Still, pregnancy prevention rates with it are about the same as condoms.

I also got the Gardasil vaccine for HPV. I am not sure how effective that is with genital warts but I did not have any issues. Anyway, once I did my own research, I felt comfortable and eventually barebacked almost all my SBs. The only issue I had was a pregnancy scare on a woman who waited too long on the levogestrel.

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]. Condoms have issues too. The only way to be 100% safe is to abstain.

I am not recommending BB for anyone but if you are going to do it, I think there is a way to do it if not responsibly at least in a way to lower your risks of disease and pregnancy.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2858016]JS,

I said this before on the Medellin forum, and I will repeat it here. There is a belief among American public health officials that antibiotics and antivirals should be reserved for STI treatment and condoms used for prevention of STIs because if the antibiotics and antivirals are used, there will be bacterial resistance and these drugs will no longer work. I understood that but then I went abroad and saw that anyone could buy antibiotics and antivirals over the counter. I also read about how overused these same drugs are with animals. I was like, "Fuck it, if these work better, and I can have better sex, I am going for it. " The other big thing is I read a large study where condoms did not work for most STIs that came out 20 years ago. Now it is a monologue among public health officials that condoms work for STIs, and they have studies to back them up, but I am pretty skeptical of them.

So I had an antibiotic and antiviral regimen I would use when I barebacked a girl whom I thought was risky. I would ask the women if they were clean and do it in such a way that they could answer honestly. To prevent pregnancy, I used plan be which is 1.5 MG of the female hormone levogestrel which is also available over the counter even in the USA. The women were actually thankful when I gave it to them. A few of the women had cramping and bleeding afterwards and were reluctant to take it a second time so that was an issue with some. When I was with a woman for longer, I would buy a Depoprovera shot on line and give it to the women every 3 months. Again, most took it fine, and many liked not having periods but others had cramping and bleeding with it and did not like it.

Levogestrel prevents ovulation so you should have a woman take it as soon as after sex as possible. If the egg has been released into the Fallopian tube, it does no good at all. Still, pregnancy prevention rates with it are about the same as condoms.

I also got the Gardasil vaccine for HPV. I am not sure how effective that is with genital warts but I did not have any issues. Anyway, once I did my own research, I felt comfortable and eventually barebacked almost all my SBs. The only issue I had was a pregnancy scare on a woman who waited too long on the levogestrel.

Condoms have issues too. The only way to be 100% safe is to abstain.

I am not recommending BB for anyone but if you are going to do it, I think there is a way to do it if not responsibly at least in a way to lower your risks of disease and pregnancy.[/QUOTE]Just a word of warning to all that Depoprovera can profoundly affect sex drive. Shayla the sex goddess started taking it about six months ago and it totally changed her. She went from "instant on" and very affectionate to me having to kinda initiate sex in the old husband and wife approach. And her wetness went down dramatically too. So now it's gone from true can't get enough of each other sex to husband initiates with ambivalent wife sex. She's a good GF and wants to do her part but it feel's COMPLETELY different when I know it's one sided. It def could kill our relationship eventually as it's gotten rocky and this is def a contributing factor.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2858016]JS,

Condoms have issues too. The only way to be 100% safe is to abstain..[/QUOTE]Respectfully, that's just silly. This was never a question of 100% safe or nothing. It is always a calculus based on degrees of risk. If something decreases your risk profile 80%, 90%, 95%, choose your favorite number, it doesn't have to be 100 to be well worth doing.

I was in Budapest a couple of days ago. Found a real hot chic, 8/10 types on Sa. A few more were messaging me non stop. Very active scene.

Cheers!

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2856292]Anyone done sugaring in Budapest? It seems like it's thin out there on SA and I can't seem to get a payment thru on what seems like a local variant Punc.

Anyone had any luck or tips to penetrate the sugar trade there? .[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2858135]I was in Budapest a couple of days ago. Found a real hot chic, 8/10 types on Sa. A few more were messaging me non stop. Very active scene.

Cheers![/QUOTE]Tried to drop you a DM but it says your mailbox is full and you need to clear out some space. Just heads up.

Thanks for the reply.

You're right about condoms not being effective against all the STIs but so far after 20+ years of seeing escorts and SBs the worst I got was a fungal infection. Kinda painful BTW. And that was from a BBJ and not even sex. And most of us engage in BBJs I imagine.

I'm not so concerned about HIV. Hard to catch, pretty rare among women in the west at least. But HepB and HPV I really want to avoid. Are the vax effective against those I wonder? Most girls now have the HPV vax at around 13/14 in Europe / USA, but few have the HepB vax.

Pregnacies are a whole other issue. If you remember to pull out you're good. That's an 'if'! Or you know they're on effective prevention. But you can't 100% know that.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2858016]JS,

I said this before on the Medellin forum, and I will repeat it here. There is a belief among American public health officials that antibiotics and antivirals should be reserved for STI treatment and condoms used for prevention of STIs because if the antibiotics and antivirals are used, there will be bacterial resistance and these drugs will no longer work. I understood that but then I went abroad and saw that anyone could buy antibiotics and antivirals over the counter. I also read about how overused these same drugs are with animals. I was like, "Fuck it, if these work better, and I can have better sex, I am going for it. " The other big thing is I read a large study where condoms did not work for most STIs that came out 20 years ago. Now it is a monologue among public health officials that condoms work for STIs, and they have studies to back them up, but I am pretty skeptical of them..[/QUOTE]

I have done about 13 to 15 girls from seeking. Mostly western Europe. A couple in the US. Have gone bareback with 7 or 8 of them. Note that 3 of those are my cream of the cream. We have moved to a friendship beyond sex / money.

So far, I haven't caught anything. I must say I am lucky. Frankly speaking. But, you may ask why no bareback with other 7 or 8. Simple. Just didn't feel right. And, not surprisingly, those did not last longer. Hardly one or two meets and done.

Do I think about STI. Yes. Am I worried? No as long as I do it only with regulars / when comfortable. Would I advise this approach to you? No. It depends on your risk perception. When I was a rookie, I had asked the same question on this forum. Probably 2 years ago. Seniors like Midwestern, Steve etc. , gave me the same advice. Depends on what you perceive as risk.

Pregnancy. Not worried. I go all the way if, and only if, the girl has IUD. Fun fact. I learned about IUD from my first SB. She is one of the top tier three. Ince we fucked so hard that her IUD moved and she has to go to her doctor to fix it. LOL.

[QUOTE=JonnySutton;2857748]Interesting post. I've only ever done BB once with a Seeking girl bc I'm a bit paranoid about STIs etc. Being honest, how many girls from Seeking have you done BB with and did you ever catch anything? I really love the BB experience bc cumming with a condom is becoming increasingly difficult, and I'd never do BB with an escort (not that they offer) but with the normal Seeking girls it's really tempting.[/QUOTE]

Any suggestions for clubs in frankfurt?

Me and my girl would like to explore / expand our sexual boundaries.

Thanks.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2858274]Any suggestions for clubs in frankfurt?

Me and my girl would like to explore / expand our sexual boundaries.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]Let me make this straightforward for you. This could be a very long post but it's not necessary. You'll end up at the same destination.

Go to an FKK. Basically a sex club. You pay something like 60 or €70 to get in. There are maybe 100 girls walking around nude or semi nude at the best ones. You pay something like €75 to get with them. Food and non-alcoholic drinks are included in your entry price. As is a robe and slippers.

The two best ones are about 30 minutes outside of Frankfurt. One north of Frankfurt, and one south of Frankfurt. They are both excellent. You can debate them, but it's like a Coke and Pepsi. Oase and Sharks. Take your pick. Or just flip a coin.

One caveat: nothing will be like your first time. Take it all in. After that, it's still good, but nothing is like your first time.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2858076]Just a word of warning to all that Depoprovera - a good GF and wants to do her part but it feel's COMPLETELY different when I know it's one sided. It def could kill our relationship eventually as it's gotten rocky and this is def a contributing factor.[/QUOTE]What about switching up to copper IUD or something similar (oops saw GFE talking about it below after posting)?

Met a sexy 23 year old Costa Rican on SA in Miami. In town on vacation. Great attitude great GFE but when I went to do the deed, she had a seriously unpleasant odor and and I noped out.

I have encountered this a handful of times in my mongering career and noting shuts me down faster.

Thanks for the efforts, AmericanPi. Really appreciate it.

I should have been clearer. Any clubs. Swinger or other sexclubs. No FKK.

FKK. Been there by myself. I don't want to offend her right away by going to a Bordell although I want to do it in future.

I used to live in NRW region. So, very familiar with FKKs. In fact my "go-to" before I got hooked on SA by seniors here.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2858314]Let me make this straightforward for you. This could be a very long post but it's not necessary. You'll end up at the same destination.

Go to an FKK. Basically a sex club. You pay something like 60 or 70 to get in. There are maybe 100 girls walking around nude or semi nude at the best ones. You pay something like 75 to get with them. Food and non-alcoholic drinks are included in your entry price. As is a robe and slippers.

The two best ones are about 30 minutes outside of Frankfurt. One north of Frankfurt, and one south of Frankfurt. They are both excellent. You can debate them, but it's like a Coke and Pepsi. Oase and Sharks. Take your pick. Or just flip a coin.

One caveat: nothing will be like your first time. Take it all in. After that, it's still good, but nothing is like your first time.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Sloninger;2858362]Met a sexy 23 year old Costa Rican on SA in Miami. In town on vacation. Great attitude great GFE but when I went to do the deed, she had a seriously unpleasant odor and and I noped out.

I have encountered this a handful of times in my mongering career and noting shuts me down faster.[/QUOTE]I've been always wondering, don't they smell their own odor? I have encountered fishy odor multiple times, and can't recall a girl racing to the shower to freshen up. They act like nothing happened, like there is no odor at all. Or playing dumb hoping I wouldn't notice?

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2858505]I've been always wondering, don't they smell their own odor? I have encountered fishy odor multiple times, and can't recall a girl racing to the shower to freshen up. They act like nothing happened, like there is no odor at all. Or playing dumb hoping I wouldn't notice?[/QUOTE]I also wonder same thing. They have to smell the odor.

[QUOTE=JonnySutton;2857748]Interesting post. I've only ever done BB once with a Seeking girl bc I'm a bit paranoid about STIs etc. Being honest, how many girls from Seeking have you done BB with and did you ever catch anything? I really love the BB experience bc cumming with a condom is becoming increasingly difficult, and I'd never do BB with an escort (not that they offer) but with the normal Seeking girls it's really tempting.[/QUOTE]I've only done it once as well. A few other girls offered to let me go bb but I didn't trust them (met right away, other questionable factors) so I just wrapped it.

I had a new experience recently. Girl I saw stopped before clothes came off and said she might have gen herpes and was getting tested again. Said she was seeing a few other guys from sa but I didn't ask too many details. Ended up making out for awhile but nothing else. We didn't discuss ppm but ended up giving her about half of usual when I dropped her off. We had good chemistry but I feel like that should be a deal breaker right?

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2858505]I've been always wondering, don't they smell their own odor? I have encountered fishy odor multiple times, and can't recall a girl racing to the shower to freshen up. They act like nothing happened, like there is no odor at all. Or playing dumb hoping I wouldn't notice?[/QUOTE]Exactly!! How do these girls not do a smell check?

A great thing about SA is there can be more than sex. Like you can develop something pretty real even if u both know it's NSA. Like with Sarah my UK girl. Sex is solid now but not top ten. But damn I like this girl. She's smart and fun and loves to dance. I am totally looking forward to seeing her and spending time with her. That's the magic of SA you can def get a GF feeling (real affection not just GFE sex)and with a handful of girls all at once! Amazing!

P.S. IUD for Shayla is a no go. She does the Depo to suppress her period m, not for BC per se. And I can sympathize. She has like minimum 5 day periods and they are just awful with cramps and pain etc. Nobody wants a quarter of their life to totally suck. So I def get it. Unfortunately.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2858274]Any suggestions for clubs in frankfurt?

Me and my girl would like to explore / expand our sexual boundaries.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]Club Freud, Die Oase in Rodermark (not to be confused with FKK Oase). Grande Opera in Offenbach, but make sure to check their event schedule, not all events they have are swinger events. Also, register on JoyClub and check what events are where on a specific date.

For those of you that find yourself in Europe a lot like myself Berlin is very active and turning out to be incredible.

I have more than I can handle. Just had the second woman of the night.

It seems they are all saying the same things, dating pool is atrocious here for them.

Age range 23-35. Started the process 3.

Days ago due to busy schedule. Arrived this morning. Staying downtown at the ritz Carlton easy to navigate.

The two I met were career woman. First was a marketing director for a major pharma company 30 yo solid 8. 5/9, incredibly intelligent and charming and great in bed. No donation. Meeting her again Thursday and she put the restaurant reservation on her credit card and she will be out 180 euro if I don't show up. Which I found amazing she would do that.

Second was a PR director for a well know fashion company. Was originally supposed to meet her this Friday, but she kept texting during my dinner. When I finished with the first one around 10:00 pm l told her let's meet for a drink. She showed up to the hotel bar 20 mins late. We hit it off immediately. She asked to kiss me at the bar. I knew she was finished at that point. Did the deed every way I wanted and her sucking whatever cum I.

Had left after shooting her full of it.

Both BBFS. The European girls for me never even mention condoms.

She's still in the bed now, LOL.

I was worried because the pro seen here is really a disaster now and it used to be great.

Have more lined up tll I leave Saturday. Sunday is.

My bday, maybe I stay LOL.

If you find yourself in Berlin, definitely try SA.

Just checked SA. Berlin optics seem to be good.

Thanks for bringing it up. Somehow Berlin never popped up for me as a choice. Been confined to NRW within Germany given FKK serve as backups there. Or I went to Spain.

Will add Berlin to wishlist.

BTW, what filters do you use for search criteria?

[QUOTE=FastMdSter;2859587]For those of you that find yourself in Europe a lot like myself Berlin is very active and turning out to be incredible.

I have more than I can handle. Just had the second woman of the night.

It seems they are all saying the same things, dating pool is atrocious here for them.

Age range 23-35. Started the process 3.

Days ago due to busy schedule. Arrived this morning. Staying downtown at the ritz Carlton easy to navigate.

The two I met were career woman. First was a marketing director for a major pharma company 30 yo solid 8. 5/9, incredibly intelligent and charming and great in bed. No donation. Meeting her again Thursday and she put the restaurant reservation on her credit card and she will be out 180 euro if I don't show up. Which I found amazing she would do that.

Second was a PR director for a well know fashion company. Was originally supposed to meet her this Friday, but she kept texting during my dinner. When I finished with the first one around 10:00 pm l told her let's meet for a drink. She showed up to the hotel bar 20 mins late. We hit it off immediately. She asked to kiss me at the bar. I knew she was finished at that point. Did the deed every way I wanted and her sucking whatever cum I.

Had left after shooting her full of it.

Both BBFS. The European girls for me never even mention condoms.

She's still in the bed now, LOL.

I was worried because the pro seen here is really a disaster now and it used to be great.

Have more lined up tll I leave Saturday. Sunday is.

My bday, maybe I stay LOL.

If you find yourself in Berlin, definitely try SA.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2859796]Just checked SA. Berlin optics seem to be good.

Thanks for bringing it up. Somehow Berlin never popped up for me as a choice. Been confined to NRW within Germany given FKK serve as backups there. Or I went to Spain.

Will add Berlin to wishlist.

BTW, what filters do you use for search criteria?[/QUOTE]I basically use the same search criteria for all my hunts on SA and sort from there.

18-33 because they all tend to subtract at least 2 years from their actual age.

All the slim body types.

Pictures.

I leave ethnicities open because most pick mixed anyway.

Photos of course.

FYI, any of them who say Latina / columbia / Brazil are mostly pros from my chats that I had so crossed off list first.

If you want to just empty your nuts Frankfurt is great because of the Fkks but SA is good there also.

Berlin is pretty easy and cheap (or free, but of course the dinners and drinks).

Canada has always been my fish in the barrel but this is so easy here.

Women are better looking though in Montreal / Vancouver imo.

So I hope this helps some of you guys.

On my way back to NYC now.

Had 3 full days and nights in Berlin.

Met and slept with 4. All were great company, uninhibited sex (BBFS, CIM, cip etc).

Age range 25-33.

Looks 8-9.

English spoken.

Intelligent, funny, presentable, and genuine.

My location: Ritz Carlton center of Berlin.

I had double the number lined up to meet in case of flakes etc. 3 out of the 4 made reservations at great places, none of them were crazy expensive all cheaper than NYC / Paris or major cities.

All of them paid for the Ubers / taxis etc as we moved to bars after lunch / dinner etc.

No donation was negotiated or requested. I slipped 300 euro in the last woman's purse before I left in the morning, as we ended up going back to her apartment vs my hotel as it was closer to final bar of the evening. She probably hasn't seen noticed it yet.

Common theme from all of them as I mentioned before, dating pool is terrible. Dates with the men who live in Germany are not the best, cheap, expect the woman to pay for half etc.

It seems common good manners and old school gentleman etiquette go a long way here. So if your game is on and you're a match for their style it's an incredible option.

Also, all 4 went pse bbbjs, deep ball sucking, deep throat, choking and rimming which I was shocked about with no request by me. They also commented about having shaved balls which they loved.

None were on BC, and were more than willing to take ndp.

One thing to note, I like tall, fit / thin Caucasian women, I don't mind tattoos, as I have some, but not interested in women who have tatted necks / faces / chests etc.

I'm only 5'10" and all of them were between 5'7"- 5'9" and taller than me in heels. I always tell them to show up in heels. In my profile I state if you can’t walk in heels or use chopsticks correctly don't respond, LOL.

Hope this helps some of your planning.

Super helpful. Thanks.

Tall, fit Caucasian is my "go-to". I am over 6 ft myself.

BBFS, CIP. Are bonus. Pin put on Berlin.

[QUOTE=FastMdSter;2860125]So I hope this helps some of you guys.

On my way back to NYC now.

Had 3 full days and nights in Berlin.

Met and slept with 4. All were great company, uninhibited sex (BBFS, CIM, cip etc).

Age range 25-33.

Looks 8-9.

English spoken.

Intelligent, funny, presentable, and genuine.

My location: Ritz Carlton center of Berlin.

I had double the number lined up to meet in case of flakes etc. 3 out of the 4 made reservations at great places, none of them were crazy expensive all cheaper than NYC / Paris or major cities.

All of them paid for the Ubers / taxis etc as we moved to bars after lunch / dinner etc.

No donation was negotiated or requested. I slipped 300 euro in the last woman's purse before I left in the morning, as we ended up going back to her apartment vs my hotel as it was closer to final bar of the evening. She probably hasn't seen noticed it yet.

Common theme from all of them as I mentioned before, dating pool is terrible. Dates with the men who live in Germany are not the best, cheap, expect the woman to pay for half etc.

It seems common good manners and old school gentleman etiquette go a long way here. So if your game is on and you're a match for their style it's an incredible option.

Also, all 4 went pse bbbjs, deep ball sucking, deep throat, choking and rimming which I was shocked about with no request by me. They also commented about having shaved balls which they loved.

None were on BC, and were more than willing to take ndp.

One thing to note, I like tall, fit / thin Caucasian women, I don't mind tattoos, as I have some, but not interested in women who have tatted necks / faces / chests etc.

I'm only 5'10" and all of them were between 5'7"- 5'9" and taller than me in heels. I always tell them to show up in heels. In my profile I state if you cant walk in heels or use chopsticks correctly don't respond, LOL.

Hope this helps some of your planning.[/QUOTE]

I went out with a girl last weekend for the first time. Things went well, ended up at my place but didn't have sex because she was waiting for a hsv 2 lab result and wanted to be safe. She didn't go into details and I was glad she told me. We got along well so I saw her again this weekend. I didn't want to bring up the lab over text but when it came up we were already making out. She hadn't gotten the result yet but felt better and left it up to me. I may have made a big mistake and went for it using a rubber. Sex was great, she stayed over but my issue is I made plans with a different girl this week who I've seen before. Should I be safe and cancel? Or meet her for dinner and let her know I want to wait a little?

This has been very helpful thread.

My main experiences have been massage and escorts.

Recently I had tried FWB relationship with a young Latino.

And it's working out very well.

Seen her for six dates over past 6 months.

The dates last anywhere 4-8 hours ending with sex.

She does good BBBJ, prefers covered mish, showers together.

Lots of DFK. She has some kinks like wanting to being tied up.

I feel lucky to have found her through an agency, initially as an escort-client relationship.

We hit it off and when she left agency to find more legitimate work.

We arrange me to act as a SD as a side hustle.

I give her 300 dollars per meet and she doesn't pry into my private life.

She told me she moving back to Mexico next month so I'm sadden.

As this arrangement will come to an end.

I never really had success with Seeking in the past but I think I will try again due to this FWB experience.

Might drive me crazy doing the leg work but I want to find another gem.

Great report. So how old are you since you said none of the girls you met asked for donations. I've experienced that 20% of the time (once in Berlin), but I'm over 50 (though pretty fit and have been told I'm very good looking) so I'm not going to attract many under 30's without some financial incentives.

[QUOTE=FastMdSter;2860125]So I hope this helps some of you guys.

On my way back to NYC now.

Had 3 full days and nights in Berlin.

Met and slept with 4. All were great company, uninhibited sex (BBFS, CIM, cip etc).

Age range 25-33.

Looks 8-9.

English spoken.

Intelligent, funny, presentable, and genuine.

My location: Ritz Carlton center of Berlin.

I had double the number lined up to meet in case of flakes etc. 3 out of the 4 made reservations at great places, none of them were crazy expensive all cheaper than NYC / Paris or major cities.

All of them paid for the Ubers / taxis etc as we moved to bars after lunch / dinner etc.

No donation was negotiated or requested. I slipped 300 euro in the last woman's purse before I left in the morning, as we ended up going back to her apartment vs my hotel as it was closer to final bar of the evening. She probably hasn't seen noticed it yet.

Common theme from all of them as I mentioned before, dating pool is terrible. Dates with the men who live in Germany are not the best, cheap, expect the woman to pay for half etc.

It seems common good manners and old school gentleman etiquette go a long way here. So if your game is on and you're a match for their style it's an incredible option.

Also, all 4 went pse bbbjs, deep ball sucking, deep throat, choking and rimming which I was shocked about with no request by me. They also commented about having shaved balls which they loved.

None were on BC, and were more than willing to take ndp.

One thing to note, I like tall, fit / thin Caucasian women, I don't mind tattoos, as I have some, but not interested in women who have tatted necks / faces / chests etc.

I'm only 5'10" and all of them were between 5'7"- 5'9" and taller than me in heels. I always tell them to show up in heels. In my profile I state if you cant walk in heels or use chopsticks correctly don't respond, LOL.

Hope this helps some of your planning.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GoingDumb;2860595]I went out with a girl last weekend for the first time. Things went well, ended up at my place but didn't have sex because she was waiting for a hsv 2 lab result and wanted to be safe. She didn't go into details and I was glad she told me. We got along well so I saw her again this weekend. I didn't want to bring up the lab over text but when it came up we were already making out. She hadn't gotten the result yet but felt better and left it up to me. I may have made a big mistake and went for it using a rubber. Sex was great, she stayed over but my issue is I made plans with a different girl this week who I've seen before. Should I be safe and cancel? Or meet her for dinner and let her know I want to wait a little?[/QUOTE]Did you say WITH rubber? I think the chances of catching anything with a rubber are very small.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2860684]Did you say WITH rubber? I think the chances of catching anything with a rubber are very small.[/QUOTE]I am with Steve on this one, as long as there is no active infection, rubber up and go.

[QUOTE=JonnySutton;2860679]Great report. So how old are you since you said none of the girls you met asked for donations. I've experienced that 20% of the time (once in Berlin), but I'm over 50 (though pretty fit and have been told I'm very good looking) so I'm not going to attract many under 30's without some financial incentives.[/QUOTE]I turned 49 yesterday, but have been told I don't look more than 35. Could be the shaved head and beard, but my beard is almost 70% gray.

I am very fit though and really into fashion. I've been told I'm very handsome, but we all have.

However, I think a lot has to do with the vibe / experience they get on the pre-game date. I don't think about cost when it comes to dinners / drinks / bottles etc because if I was alone I would pay for the top end anyway for myself, so it's just an extra I have to pay.

Additionally, like many of you I have been traveling for 20 years and tend to stay and visit many of the same places so have developed relationships that get me good tables / seats etc. So what I believe happens is that they get this vision in their mind that this is what it's going to be like for them through out this relationship and they want that life. It's an illusion that they fall into. I will tell you, it leads to a lot of clingers though.

Hmm, I live in Berlin and I also used SA in the past. Frankly, I do not found this story very credible. Except you are famous in some way or another. .

[QUOTE=FastMdSter;2860125]So I hope this helps some of you guys.

On my way back to NYC now.

Had 3 full days and nights in Berlin.

Met and slept with 4. All were great company, uninhibited sex (BBFS, CIM, cip etc).

Age range 25-33.

Looks 8-9.

English spoken.

Intelligent, funny, presentable, and genuine.

My location: Ritz Carlton center of Berlin.

I had double the number lined up to meet in case of flakes etc. 3 out of the 4 made reservations at great places, none of them were crazy expensive all cheaper than NYC / Paris or major cities.

All of them paid for the Ubers / taxis etc as we moved to bars after lunch / dinner etc.

No donation was negotiated or requested. I slipped 300 euro in the last woman's purse before I left in the morning, as we ended up going back to her apartment vs my hotel as it was closer to final bar of the evening. She probably hasn't seen noticed it yet.

Common theme from all of them as I mentioned before, dating pool is terrible. Dates with the men who live in Germany are not the best, cheap, expect the woman to pay for half etc.

It seems common good manners and old school gentleman etiquette go a long way here. So if your game is on and you're a match for their style it's an incredible option.

Also, all 4 went pse bbbjs, deep ball sucking, deep throat, choking and rimming which I was shocked about with no request by me. They also commented about having shaved balls which they loved.

None were on BC, and were more than willing to take ndp.

One thing to note, I like tall, fit / thin Caucasian women, I don't mind tattoos, as I have some, but not interested in women who have tatted necks / faces / chests etc.

I'm only 5'10" and all of them were between 5'7"- 5'9" and taller than me in heels. I always tell them to show up in heels. In my profile I state if you cant walk in heels or use chopsticks correctly don't respond, LOL.

Hope this helps some of your planning.[/QUOTE]

SA is trying to get me to sign up. Offering a 20% discount.

I am tired of US women and not biting the bait. Leveraging existing phone numbers and hoping one or two will fall in bed.

If anyone would like the code, pm me. Happy to share (doesn't look like it is a code tied to my account. No Harm trying).

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2860684]Did you say WITH rubber? I think the chances of catching anything with a rubber are very small.[/QUOTE]Yeah with rubber.

[QUOTE=FastMdSter;2860720]I turned 49 yesterday, but have been told I don't look more than 35. Could be the shaved head and beard, but my beard is almost 70% gray.

I am very fit though and really into fashion. I've been told I'm very handsome, but we all have.

However, I think a lot has to do with the vibe / experience they get on the pre-game date. I don't think about cost when it comes to dinners / drinks / bottles etc because if I was alone I would pay for the top end anyway for myself, so it's just an extra I have to pay.

Additionally, like many of you I have been traveling for 20 years and tend to stay and visit many of the same places so have developed relationships that get me good tables / seats etc. So what I believe happens is that they get this vision in their mind that this is what it's going to be like for them through out this relationship and they want that life. It's an illusion that they fall into. I will tell you, it leads to a lot of clingers though.[/QUOTE]Do most of you travel for work? I know steve has regulars in the US but I'm curious if anyone has a regular arrangement at home vs mainly using it when traveling.

[QUOTE=GoingDumb;2860767]Do most of you travel for work? I know steve has regulars in the US but I'm curious if anyone has a regular arrangement at home vs mainly using it when traveling.[/QUOTE]For me it was a progression. At first I only ever did the hookers and club scene and always abroad. Then COVID was the mother of invention and I found SA for domestic trips because all international was shut down. But still only during travel for first year. Then decided to try discreetly at home. Worked well. Amped that up quite a bit to where I had a regular girl pretty much. But still maybe once or twice a month. Also no one quite satisfactory in all respects. Then of course Shayla the goddess and the slippery slope to full on mistress.

It all started with a handjob in Tokyo 20+ years ago. And here we are in mistress land! It's a slippery slope!

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2860762]SA is trying to get me to sign up. Offering a 20% discount.

I am tired of US women and not biting the bait. Leveraging existing phone numbers and hoping one or two will fall in bed.

If anyone would like the code, pm me. Happy to share (doesn't look like it is a code tied to my account. No Harm trying).[/QUOTE]I think SA sends you the discount promo right after your subscription expires. I got that discout too, its 25%, I got the email 3 times this weeks, I haven't re subscribed because I'm already fking a few sugar babies right now, but as soon as I get bored ot them, ill re sign and find some new ones.

Hi fellow members.

I tried to create a new Thread about the Secret Benefits site / app, for some reason I can't create one even though I'm a paying member and have a subscription. If anyone can create it, please do.

Anyway, I would like to know your experience about this Secret Benefits site, I usually use seeking arr. And its been a good experience.

But last week I susbcribed to Secret Benefits and I got like 30-40 messages in about 3 days, lots of hotties PMing me and stuff. Any of you have any expericiences meeting chicks of this app? Thanks.

[QUOTE=GoingDumb;2860767]Do most of you travel for work? I know steve has regulars in the US but I'm curious if anyone has a regular arrangement at home vs mainly using it when traveling.[/QUOTE]Almost exclusively when traveling. Because married and that's playing with fire. Even when I'm traveling I am afraid some business connection is also going to be in the other country and notice me with some 19 year old dolled up girl and the jig will be up. But so far so good.

[QUOTE=GoingDumb;2860767]Do most of you travel for work? I know steve has regulars in the US but I'm curious if anyone has a regular arrangement at home vs mainly using it when traveling.[/QUOTE]So I use SA when traveling ex-us mostly. It is great in that aspect. I find it has deteriorated for the US and continues to get worse.

I have had success in the US but it's not the same level of hotness I'm looking to bang. If you like black, Latin, fat, curvy, that is really the biggest demographic of the women in the US on seeking imo. Additionally, many more pros, scammers, pic sellers etc then before in the US.

They say thick, but they are fat.

I like my women 5'5"+ Caucasian, mixed light skin, thin, fit, active, with good teeth, 8+ on scale and no chemical demons. I'm finding that group mostly ex-US.

I don't like to have anyone to close to my home area. I had one about 1 month ago against my better judgement, a 23 yo nursing student who was hottie but just had so much drama going on, but she was off tinder.

In the US, I use RAYA, Tinder, bumble, SA in that order.

Ex-US, I use RAYA, Tinder, and SA in that order.

I have a SO in Montreal that I found on SA a little over a year ago who is the perfect woman imo, but she will be turning 28 next month and I know she wants to be wifey and has been dropping hints and I'm not ready for that again. So I'm ratcheting up now.

The dollar is still really strong, take advantage.

Just a friendly note because I found this information much to hard to find. If you are looking to pay for Seeking with a burner card the only ones I have found to work are those that are from Black Hawk. You look on the back and make sure that is listed as the issuer. To be safe go pull an address from the same zip code you bought it with a name attached to that address. That seems to work pretty reliably.

For those that care you can sign up on the "monthly repeat payment" price with the burner card and pay a single month (or more if you like).

I am about to head off in another extended trip through El Salvador and Nicaragua. I have posted about my Nicaragua experience here before. It will be the first time using it in El Salvador. In theory I have a very nice lady excited to come spend a day or two with me at the beach and a back up or two I am keeping warm.

Nicaragua is looking promising since I lost my original SB there to Europe. But we shall see.

[QUOTE=GoingDumb;2860595]I went out with a girl last weekend for the first time. Things went well, ended up at my place but didn't have sex because she was waiting for a hsv 2 lab result and wanted to be safe. She didn't go into details and I was glad she told me. We got along well so I saw her again this weekend. I didn't want to bring up the lab over text but when it came up we were already making out. She hadn't gotten the result yet but felt better and left it up to me. I may have made a big mistake and went for it using a rubber. Sex was great, she stayed over but my issue is I made plans with a different girl this week who I've seen before. Should I be safe and cancel? Or meet her for dinner and let her know I want to wait a little?[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.ucsfhealth.org/medical-tests/serum-herpes-simplex-antibodies[/URL]#text=About%2070%25%20 of%20 adults%20 have, once%20 you%20 have%20 been%20 infected.

About 70% of adults have been infected by HSV-1 and have antibodies against the virus. About 20 to 50% of adults will have antibodies against the HSV-2 virus, which causes genital herpes.

[QUOTE=JonnySutton;2860679]Great report. So how old are you since you said none of the girls you met asked for donations. I've experienced that 20% of the time (once in Berlin), but I'm over 50 (though pretty fit and have been told I'm very good looking) so I'm not going to attract many under 30's without some financial incentives.[/QUOTE]JS, I first saw this in Colombia. FastMD covered it but I want to re-emphasize it. If you stay in a Super 8/ motel 6 type place and dress plainly, the women will ask for money upfront because they are afraid you have nothing. If you show up at a nice hotel, dress sharply, and are at a nice restaurant or bar, you are selling the women the dream that this is what they get if they hang out with you, and they will be much, much less inclined to ask for money.

I didn't plan for this as much as fell into it. I just keep meeting women in Colombia, and they didn't ask for any money. I would give them something afterwards but after a while, I just tried giving the women nothing. Then I would ask to see them again, and they would show up. Because I felt like they really liked me, in the end, I gave the women who did not ask for money more than the ones who did.

One guy here and I both saw the same woman. I actually told him that she didn't ask for money but I gave it to her. He said the same happened with him, and he gave her money too. So there are women on SA, not a lot but some, who have learned that there is value in not setting a price.

I agree with you about Seeking in the US. I'm from Europe but travel across the pond quite a bit and everytime I go on Seeking and search US cities I'm left feeling very uninspired. And reading the SLF on Reddit it seems the expectations of SBs in the US are a bit ridiculous. Europe and Asia are the best places I've found (not used Seeking in Latin America since there were alternative aproaches when I went). That being said Seeking hasn't been so great this past year even in Europe after finding absolute gems in 2020/21/22. So this year I've given it a rest and I'm just seeing a girl (too infrequently I admit) that I met in Berlin back in 2020. She's such a sweetie and I've got a bit hooked I guess. When you connect with a girl it's hard to start over and try to find someone else that comes close to what you're experiencing. And now the whole FKK and escort thing leaves me a bit cold even though I've met some absolute stunners via that route (inc a model in Prague who turned out to have been on the cover of Czech Playboy).

[QUOTE=FastMdSter;2860836]So I use SA when traveling ex-us mostly. It is great in that aspect. I find it has deteriorated for the US and continues to get worse.

I have had success in the US but it's not the same level of hotness I'm looking to bang. If you like black, Latin, fat, curvy, that is really the biggest demographic of the women in the US on seeking imo. Additionally, many more pros, scammers, pic sellers etc then before in the US.

They say thick, but they are fat.

I like my women 5'5"+ Caucasian, mixed light skin, thin, fit, active, with good teeth, 8+ on scale and no chemical demons. I'm finding that group mostly ex-US.

I don't like to have anyone to close to my home area. I had one about 1 month ago against my better judgement, a 23 yo nursing student who was hottie but just had so much drama going on, but she was off tinder.

In the US, I use RAYA, Tinder, bumble, SA in that order.

Ex-US, I use RAYA, Tinder, and SA in that order.

I have a SO in Montreal that I found on SA a little over a year ago who is the perfect woman imo, but she will be turning 28 next month and I know she wants to be wifey and has been dropping hints and I'm not ready for that again. So I'm ratcheting up now.

The dollar is still really strong, take advantage.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FastMdSter;2860836]They say thick, but they are fat.[/QUOTE]Reminds me of a guy from years ago who used the handle "YaNotThickYaFat" LMAO! I got tired a long time ago of fat chicks misappropriating the descriptor "thick" to describe themselves. I can remember a time when it was "in" for women to describe themselves as being "rubenesque". Same thing. Fat!

Interesting points. I always stay in 5 star hotels (when I'm travelling) and dine at a high end restaurant (at least for the first meet, and then gauge what they want), I dress properly and all that stuff. But not crazy bling or anything. I don't wear a Rolex, I'm more casual. I also treat women with great respect and just be natural. I don't need to show off, I'm a bit understated actually, and always make sure the woman feels safe, comfortable and respected. I don't go in strong with sex talk, I'm not a creep. And I'm also prepared to walk away. Giving the vibe that you're desperate is such a turn off. The strategy works well. I've never had a M&G not lead to an arrangement or intimate date, so on that front a 100% success rate. But as I said only 20% of women I've met via Seeking never asked for money.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2860875]JS, I first saw this in Colombia. FastMD covered it but I want to re-emphasize it. If you stay in a Super 8/ motel 6 type place and dress plainly, the women will ask for money upfront because they are afraid you have nothing. If you show up at a nice hotel, dress sharply, and are at a nice restaurant or bar, you are selling the women the dream that this is what they get if they hang out with you, and they will be much, much less inclined to ask for money.

I didn't plan for this as much as fell into it. I just keep meeting women in Colombia, and they didn't ask for any money. I would give them something afterwards but after a while, I just tried giving the women nothing. Then I would ask to see them again, and they would show up. Because I felt like they really liked me, in the end, I gave the women who did not ask for money more than the ones who did.

One guy here and I both saw the same woman. I actually told him that she didn't ask for money but I gave it to her. He said the same happened with him, and he gave her money too. So there are women on SA, not a lot but some, who have learned that there is value in not setting a price.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JonnySutton;2860954]Interesting points. I always stay in 5 star hotels (when I'm travelling) and dine at a high end restaurant (at least for the first meet, and then gauge what they want), I dress properly and all that stuff. But not crazy bling or anything. I don't wear a Rolex, I'm more casual. I also treat women with great respect and just be natural. I don't need to show off, I'm a bit understated actually, and always make sure the woman feels safe, comfortable and respected. I don't go in strong with sex talk, I'm not a creep. And I'm also prepared to walk away. Giving the vibe that you're desperate is such a turn off. The strategy works well. I've never had a M&G not lead to an arrangement or intimate date, so on that front a 100% success rate. But as I said only 20% of women I've met via Seeking never asked for money.[/QUOTE]It sounds like your method is working great for you.

We are all attracted to different women and the ones you are targeting seem to be matching up.

I know I target women that will match my style. I like the model type / high heels / designer fits / cool sneakers etc but most would think are high maintenance / high end. I am not attracted to girl next door types.

In reality, most of them can't afford what they have, they saved / they splurged / or were gifted. So when I show up having what they aspire to have, it fucks their mind.

I also believe in the line by drake "don't tell me you model if you ain't been in Vogue" LOL. So I shut down a lot of their BS.

If I have to pay no big deal, I know the rules of the game going in.

You are winning, so good work.

Been chatting up a girl in the US. We met for a M&G months ago. Had an opportunity.

Also, followed seniors tips here to get Cialis. Thought will test it out. Had just one drink (seniors advised not to drink much), got into the groove, and things heated up. A decent blowjob later, I could feel something but not muc different from my regular erection. She has IUD but yet, I decided to go with a condom. Used Skyn. Felt reasonably OK but nothing like raw.

Did Mish for a while and decided to switch doggie. While flipping, noticed abut of spots on condom. She goes "yeah, I get this sometimes. IUD messes up my periods".

I know this is a natural cycle. But, it grossed me out. Within seconds, lost the hardness. Disposed the rubber, jumped in shower, cleaned myself.

Paid her $ and let her go.

She was not at all apologetic. Didn't for once hesitate to take ppm (I didn't shoot even one load).

Testimony that bitches in US are only about $. Crass.
I can't thank my stars enough for going in with condom. Could have been worse

A girl I've been seeing and saw this week asked if I wanted to see her again this weekend bc of a schedule change. Issue is I'm low on cash ATM since I wasn't expecting multiple dates a week. Should I be honest and see what happens or just lie and say I have plans? Chemistry has been decent and she seems to enjoy the sex. It's been ppm so far. I'm wondering if I tell her the truth if she'd be willing to do allowance for 2-3 ppm / month but see each other more than that.

[QUOTE=GoingDumb;2861332]A girl I've been seeing and saw this week asked if I wanted to see her again this weekend bc of a schedule change. Issue is I'm low on cash ATM since I wasn't expecting multiple dates a week. Should I be honest and see what happens or just lie and say I have plans? Chemistry has been decent and she seems to enjoy the sex. It's been ppm so far. I'm wondering if I tell her the truth if she'd be willing to do allowance for 2-3 ppm / month but see each other more than that.[/QUOTE]IMO, she needs the cash. Since it's always been PPM. Rent, CC etc.

Whoever else she was seeing probably bailed or gave less.

I would lie and say you have plans.

Now, you could see her and not offer a ppm and say you were mistaken and get her the next time. But, I wouldn't go that route personally. To much drama can come of it.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2861273]Been chatting up a girl in the US. We met for a M&G months ago. Had an opportunity.

Also, followed seniors tips here to get Cialis. Thought will test it out. Had just one drink (seniors advised not to drink much), got into the groove, and things heated up. A decent blowjob later, I could feel something but not muc different from my regular erection. She has IUD but yet, I decided to go with a condom. Used Skyn. Felt reasonably OK but nothing like raw.

Did Mish for a while and decided to switch doggie. While flipping, noticed abut of spots on condom. She goes "yeah, I get this sometimes. IUD messes up my periods".

I know this is a natural cycle. But, it grossed me out. Within seconds, lost the hardness. Disposed the rubber, jumped in shower, cleaned myself.

Paid her $ and let her go.

She was not at all apologetic. Didn't for once hesitate to take ppm (I didn't shoot even one load).

Testimony that bitches in US are only about $. Crass.
I can't thank my stars enough for going in with condom. Could have been worse[/QUOTE]That sucks, but has happened to a lot of us, it has happened to me. A woman I met once said her period came early when we were having sex. It looked like a murder scene, all lights were off. I had to have housekeeping come at 3 am and give me all new bedding and made her wait for them while I showed for an hour.

IUDs do cause this erratic bleeding in some women.

Ended up busting it off with Sarah which I pretty much never do. Flew her to LA and actually had a very nice time except for the sex. We had a sex fail that at least I got a BJ out of our first night. But then repeated attempts met with I'm too tired. Or not in the mood. I wasn't paying her other than the trip and spending money so maybe that led to complacency. She was totally shocked and upset when I told her the fact we haven't had sex this trip was a dealbreaker. She felt like doing her best was good enough.

I feel bad because this wasn't a malicious using of me. She's just young and naive and totally doesn't understand that the rest can be amazing, but for a guy if there isn't sex, the rest doesn't matter.

More and more I am finding getting too deep in with a girl it gets worse at some point. Like a real relationship. So my advice is keep it short. Maybe repeat a few times but at some point you got to try to exit at the first sign that it's peaked or you are going to end up in a messy valley.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2861702]
I feel bad because this wasn't a malicious using of me. She's just young and naive and totally doesn't understand that the rest can be amazing, but for a guy if there isn't sex, the rest doesn't matter.

More and more I am finding getting too deep in with a girl it gets worse at some point. Like a real relationship. So my advice is keep it short. Maybe repeat a few times but at some point you got to try to exit at the first sign that it's peaked or you are going to end up in a messy valley.[/QUOTE]LOL. I was talking about this in the Medellin forum. Every time I pursued a relationship with a woman, she got comfortable and sex just was not that important. It was like they were saying, "I was just fucking you to get you to like me but now that I know you like me, I don't have to fuck you anymore". It seemed to always happen around 3 months after we started. One of the reasons I did sugaring was that the women knew no fucking meant no money. If having a GF meant they really like me but gave me no sex or a SB who pretended to like me but fucked me, then I would take the SB, and I did. I thought was just me, but it has been studied and women quickly lose desire in a relationship and much more quickly than men do.

I think the reason I went to strip clubs when I was married so much is it was the only place I got any sympathy. My ex-wife actually called my favorite club and asked them, "How can you do this with a married man? And they told her, "Maybe if you took better care of your husband, he wouldn't be here. " They were the only ones honest about men having a satisfying sex life until lately.

Now the men's rights guys are saying that if you are married and not getting it, leave. They also are saying your wife / GF does not own your dick, she just gets first dibs. All I can say is amen.

One of these men's rights guys, Rich Cooper, called it making men betas with nagging, and I had it with my ex there too. She kept bitching I tasted funny and would not give me head. What I wanted to say is that all the other women did not mind, but one of my SBs was a clean freak. Thing is that she knew if she did like my wife, "That is gross. You need to wash it! She would get no money, so she would take me into a shower and we would make out and she would rub against me ETC. I looked forward to it.

Because there is competition to be liked by women, a woman screaming her husband cheated on her like my ex did should not be met with sympathy but a question. Why is she not being asked if she was sending him out in the world with a loaded gun? What I would have given for some guy to say to her, "Are you blowing him every morning and and getting him off?" and if she said, "I would if he cleaned it" to have that guy say, "Okay, that means no, so you need to own up to the fact you are not sexually satisfying your husband. It is not all his fault, * ".

I got engaged and afterwards, it was the same thing. The pussy fountain dried up. I asked if this always was going to happen and found the studies showing it was. So of course, once I decided it was hopeless, I meet a woman who loves sex more than I do and unlike with most women, there aren't any barriers.

The ex also used to gripe, "You are using sex as a sleeping pill", and I think it is a game with her: I am going to see how much I can get without putting out, and no one is telling them no. Hell, men's sex drive has been so demonized that we have fatties on SI covers and in the Victoria Secret's catalogue. The price of pussy has gotten so high that young men are just checking out. Even asking the price of pussy is offensive.

The truth is you are not being good to women by lying to them. After being with a woman who has never refused me, even at 4 in the morning, I just don't think I would put up with those games any more. So Steve in your situation, I would start making out with the girl, getting close to her, and talk dirty. If she pulled away, I would say, "One of the reasons I brought you here is that you would sexually take care of me. If that is a problem, you can leave and I will get a woman here who will satisfy me. ".

Unless she is paying her own way, if a wife, GF, or SB is not putting out, guys should get rid of them and not let women get away with their shaming bullshit. If you let women play power games with their sexuality, you will always lose in the end.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2861702]Ended up busting it off with Sarah which I pretty much never do. Flew her to LA and actually had a very nice time except for the sex. We had a sex fail that at least I got a BJ out of our first night. But then repeated attempts met with I'm too tired. Or not in the mood. I wasn't paying her other than the trip and spending money so maybe that led to complacency. She was totally shocked and upset when I told her the fact we haven't had sex this trip was a dealbreaker. She felt like doing her best was good enough.

I feel bad because this wasn't a malicious using of me. She's just young and naive and totally doesn't understand that the rest can be amazing, but for a guy if there isn't sex, the rest doesn't matter.

More and more I am finding getting too deep in with a girl it gets worse at some point. Like a real relationship. So my advice is keep it short. Maybe repeat a few times but at some point you got to try to exit at the first sign that it's peaked or you are going to end up in a messy valley.[/QUOTE]You made the right move. We have all been there. Sometimes girls forget what it is that they bring to the table. I met up with a Brazilian girl in Miami and she told me she was looking for an allowance but wanted a plutonic relationship. I told her that's not how this works and walked. The beautiful part is there are literally millions more to choose from.

-Slonnie.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2861702]More and more I am finding getting too deep in with a girl it gets worse at some point. Like a real relationship. So my advice is keep it short. Maybe repeat a few times but at some point you got to try to exit at the first sign that it's peaked or you are going to end up in a messy valley.[/QUOTE]That's why porking prostitutes is the best. Find them, feel them, finger them, fuck them, forget them! After you pay of course, and never pay full price up front LMAO!

[QUOTE=GoingDumb;2861332]A girl I've been seeing and saw this week asked if I wanted to see her again this weekend bc of a schedule change. Issue is I'm low on cash ATM since I wasn't expecting multiple dates a week. Should I be honest and see what happens or just lie and say I have plans? Chemistry has been decent and she seems to enjoy the sex. It's been ppm so far. I'm wondering if I tell her the truth if she'd be willing to do allowance for 2-3 ppm / month but see each other more than that.[/QUOTE]Going dumb. If you enjoy spending time with her and she is really a good catch for you, I suggest you dig deeper into your pockets this weekend for her. As someone else suggested, someone probably canceled, but if you make yourself available, she will come to realize you are dependable, and that is a great thing to have in this environment. Then maybe next week say you are a little too busy but try to still see her at least once. In my experience having been dependable makes a girl (obviously depending on her character) more smitten with you which may liven the relationship and experience. The success I have had is partially based on my reliability. And girls tend to keep coming back (to some extent). So give it a try and I hope it works for you.

For the guys have experience doing SA.

When starting out what batting average will I be expecting.

A what % of SA contacts will lead to off SA messaging.

Be what % of leads from messaging off SA leads to person meets.

See what % of initial meeting leads to ready to fuck.

Thanks for all thd contributions in this thread.

So hot off my girlfriend drama w Sarah, I decided to go the straight up pro route and get some great sex. Of course Vive is a great Madrid venue for South American hotties. But it doesn't open till later. The standard Madrid brothels are closed on Sunday. But boutique college girl apartment amigasdelidia had two girls working. Fortunately one was my type.

I was prepared for a face not as pretty as the fotos and ten pounds heavier but I was ready to rumble. Boy was I surprised when a gorgeous built Venezuelan opened the door. I mean a solid 9. Wtf? Her face was to die for — the best vennies are a cut above the rest. And she had that Brazilian hips to waist ratio that we all seem to adore so much. Absolutely stunning in doggie and trying to figure how it's possible. Nice firm the cups. The total package.

Well she is a sweetheart as well. Very attentive and sweet from start to finish. And her head game is on point. Musta done a good 20 minutes of BBBJ including some amazing 69. Her pussy is absolutely stunning and sweet as only a young lady's can be. We eventually suited up but only after quite some time at the gates of heaven. Great mish with kissing (lips only but passionate and wet), the Steve, and doggie.

Eventually I pulled out and finished in her mouth. 150/ HR is standard at Lidias with no tip expected and CIM was apparently free as well. WTF? A nine that loves to suck cock, looks like a goddess and takes a CIM like a champ — for 150. I am in love.

Ok, I finally had my first ever SA encounter in Montenegro. The girl was an obvious first chocie, as she was pretty talkative, moved to messenger without issues and had some matching kinks. Also, she never mentioned how much she wants beforehand. A bit too young for my taste (early 20's), but others were playing "hard to get" while messaging.

Those were good moments. Now not so good. After dinner she asked me how much I was thinking about and I offered 300, which I think was a bit above this country rate. She countered with 350, and I agreed because it was late and she was quioti interested in me. The body was a bit of dissapoint, especially for her age. She claims she's "average", but she is very bottom heavy including some rather unplesant belly fat. She quite strategically hides that on photos. Sex also was a mixture of good and not so good. Opend minded, active and very enthusiastic. BJ was probably one the worst I've ever had, too gentle and soft, I barely felt anything. Declined anal. Stayed well past midnight to allow two rounds, but didn't wanted to stay for night despite me asking for that.

Conclusion - "not terrible, not great". Mostly enjoable, but terrible value for money. Feels like she is a semi pro as this point.

[QUOTE=AluHut;2862148]Ok, I finally had my first ever SA encounter in Montenegro. The girl was an obvious first chocie, as she was pretty talkative, moved to messenger without issues and had some matching kinks. Also, she never mentioned how much she wants beforehand. A bit too young for my taste (early 20's), but others were playing "hard to get" while messaging.

Those were good moments. Now not so good. After dinner she asked me how much I was thinking about and I offered 300, which I think was a bit above this country rate. She countered with 350, and I agreed because it was late and she was quioti interested in me. The body was a bit of dissapoint, especially for her age. She claims she's "average", but she is very bottom heavy including some rather unplesant belly fat. She quite strategically hides that on photos. Sex also was a mixture of good and not so good. Opend minded, active and very enthusiastic. BJ was probably one the worst I've ever had, too gentle and soft, I barely felt anything. Declined anal. Stayed well past midnight to allow two rounds, but didn't wanted to stay for night despite me asking for that.

Conclusion - "not terrible, not great". Mostly enjoable, but terrible value for money. Feels like she is a semi pro as this point.[/QUOTE]Boo. Sorry you had a mixed experience. But isn't "the dating game" sorta fun regardless? A couple thoughts:

I wouldn't peg her as a semi pro. I find the girls who give poor BJ are inexperienced. They try hard but aren't good at it. Some you can coach up a bit. I've definitely seen several improve A LOT. You just need to give some direction. I only recently figured out what was wrong with Sarah's BJ and it was that she didn't SUCK at all. And that makes a huge difference. Sounds like your girls issue tho you won't repeat.

Second the "talk money at the table" is a very dangerous play. I've had it work but rarely. Much better to sort the numbers ahead so you know if you are compatible. And also the heat of the moment is a bit too dicey. Your dick can get the best of you.

Regardless great to have you in the club. Just keep riding the horse. You will have some amazing experiences. I guarantee it.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2862152]Sounds like your girls issue tho you won't repeat.
[/QUOTE]Well, I won't repeat for a different reason. I was there on a vacation. I might return to this country, but not very soon. Also, I had two non paid fucks, found via Pure app. One was pretty fucking amazing, way better that this SA girl. So, overall it was a good vacation.

About "money at the table" - yes, I agree it's risky. I guess I was impressed my some of stories here "she was so into me that we never talked about money". To be honest, I found those stories a bit too good to be true, especially happening in a row. But yeah, lesson learned.

[QUOTE=GoingDumb;2860595]I went out with a girl last weekend for the first time. Things went well, ended up at my place but didn't have sex because she was waiting for a hsv 2 lab result and wanted to be safe. She didn't go into details and I was glad she told me. We got along well so I saw her again this weekend. I didn't want to bring up the lab over text but when it came up we were already making out. She hadn't gotten the result yet but felt better and left it up to me. I may have made a big mistake and went for it using a rubber. [/QUOTE]Saw this girl again and she unfortunately confirmed she'the tested positive for hsv 2. When we went out she hadn't been having symptoms and always used a rubber but hearing it was confirmed was tough. I was pretty worried about it earlier but have had riskier exposures. Multi day FKK trips, once when a k girl put it in raw. So with that context it didn't seem too bad. Plan on taking a break for a few weeks and hoping for the best.

It's more of a shame because I'm not sure I'the want to see her for the cost again knowing the risk. I like spending time with her and we have a similar interest but I feel like I'the just be paranoid after seeing her.

So I recently sent a message to a girl in HCMC, Vietnam on Seeking and her reply was; I charge $250 to meet and have dinner and IF we vibe we can move on the ppm!! I mean that's insane. I don't even get that in London or Europe. I've had arrangements with 20 something hotties and no money was even asked for. And I never pay for a paltonic first meet diner / lunch / coffee either. What has got into some of these girls? I blocked her immediately but I should have reported her and got her banned on Seeking! The crap you have to wade through.

So I recently sent a message to a girl in HCMC, Vietnam on Seeking and her reply was; I charge $250 to meet and have dinner and IF we vibe we can move on the ppm!! I mean that's insane. I don't even get that in London or Europe. I've had arrangements with 20 something hotties and no money was even asked for. And I never pay for a paltonic first meet diner / lunch / coffee either. What has got into some of these girls? I blocked her immediately but I should have reported her and got her banned on Seeking! The crap you have to wade through.

[QUOTE=Nachoy;2861952]For the guys have experience doing SA.

When starting out what batting average will I be expecting.[/QUOTE]What city / location? What profiles are you contacting (age group etc)? Are you trying to filter out pros?

[QUOTE=JonnySutton;2862899]So I recently sent a message to a girl in HCMC, Vietnam on Seeking and her reply was; I charge $250 to meet and have dinner and IF we vibe we can move on the ppm!! I mean that's insane. I don't even get that in London or Europe. I've had arrangements with 20 something hotties and no money was even asked for. And I never pay for a paltonic first meet diner / lunch / coffee either. What has got into some of these girls? I blocked her immediately but I should have reported her and got her banned on Seeking! The crap you have to wade through.[/QUOTE]Yes, it is. Yesterday, I get a message from a girl in CDMX, that I have never met, we have only been talking briefly on WhatsApp. She asked me to rent an Airbnb for her, for a couple of days. Instant block. ,

I don't block them when I get ridiculous requests. It just teaches them that it's a ridiculous request and move on to some other way to scam guys. I just ignore them and don't reply. Let them figure out how stupid they are in their own.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2862931]Yes, it is. Yesterday, I get a message from a girl in CDMX, that I have never met, we have only been talking briefly on WhatsApp. She asked me to rent an Airbnb for her, for a couple of days. Instant block. ,[/QUOTE]

And today I had a reply from a girl in BKK. She's pretty hot, nothing more than I've expereinced in Europe though, but she wanted $650 for an evening and $950 for overnight. Basically a freelance escort charging European prices in a city that's 2-3 x cheaper than most European cities and where wages are 3-4 x less. Oh and I agreed $200 last time I was in BKK (with a European girl, via Seeking). Maybe Seeking isn't the best approach in SE Asia? But I'm not interested in bar girls or freelancers at Thermae etc, I'm looking for at least some connection. My experience in Europe has been excellent and had great chemistry with the girls I've met, almost lke a real GF / BF relationship.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2862931]Yes, it is. Yesterday, I get a message from a girl in CDMX, that I have never met, we have only been talking briefly on WhatsApp. She asked me to rent an Airbnb for her, for a couple of days. Instant block. ,[/QUOTE]

This is what I call PPS. Platinum Pussy Syndrome.

I have had at least 4/5 girls in the US tell me they need $1000 ppm. And, thy want to define how may times we would meet and convert that to monthly allowance. I say F. Off *****.

[QUOTE=JonnySutton;2863164]And today I had a reply from a girl in BKK. She's pretty hot, nothing more than I've expereinced in Europe though, but she wanted $650 for an evening and $950 for overnight. Basically a freelance escort charging European prices in a city that's 2-3 x cheaper than most European cities and where wages are 3-4 x less. Oh and I agreed $200 last time I was in BKK (with a European girl, via Seeking). Maybe Seeking isn't the best approach in SE Asia? But I'm not interested in bar girls or freelancers at Thermae etc, I'm looking for at least some connection. My experience in Europe has been excellent and had great chemistry with the girls I've met, almost lke a real GF / BF relationship.[/QUOTE]

Much has been told about South America by seniors here. While I haven't had a chance to visit there, there was this girl traveling to US for some event.

We chatted a bit and moved to whatsapp. Free flowing convo.

Early on, I dropped a few hints about my expectations but she seemd to ignore those. I let it go thinking perhaps she is not comfortable conversing.

We decide to meet.

A nice little meet and greet. Food and drinks. We chat. She goes "I must admit. I was brought on this site by a friend of mine and she had painted a certain picture. What I'm seeing in reality is different. Men are almost always expecting sex. But that is not what I signed up for".

The simplicity of that truth and the innocence with which she spoke made me feel for her (hard to convey the facial expressions, eye contact, genuine body language when I write this).

She made it clear that she is not expecting me to compensate her for time (note, platinum pussies in the US) and that she in fact wanted to treat me for a good lunch because she felt she wasted my time. I laughed at it, took the whole bill myself and gave a ride back to her hotel, dropped her safe, gave a nice warm hug and left.

We spoke a lot. For hours. About our cultures, she explaining how things work in South America. In fact, she said "you have a friend in xyz city whe you visit. Ring me up, I will take you places and be your wing woman. Worst case, some friends of mine would love to have a guy like you".

I walked in hoping to have a Latin SB. I walked out with a genuinely good hearted Latin friend. Such a pleasant experience.

[QUOTE=Nachoy;2861952]For the guys have experience doing SA.

When starting out what batting average will I be expecting.

A what % of SA contacts will lead to off SA messaging.

Be what % of leads from messaging off SA leads to person meets.

See what % of initial meeting leads to ready to fuck.

Thanks for all thd contributions in this thread.[/QUOTE]Pretty low percentages on the last one.

Especially if you want to stay disciplined on how much you want to pay and who you are seeking. If it is a shapely young white girl that's educated and well mannered, you will generally pay up. More so in the US and more so in the coastal places. Along with inflation, seeking prices too have gone up. Way different seeking than it was in 2016 and 2017.

Replies to messages, convos. Percentages are higher.

You will know these percentages after a few months and after you hit up a sufficient number of girls. Initial impressions can be misleading so don't get carried away.

Sorry to hear about the sex fail. Yeah, they need to know this is not a real relationship. When an SB and I start to know each other well, I find that we eventually become like an old married couple. With my curent SB, she knows almost nothing about me. So she knows what our "relationship" is really all about.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2861702]Ended up busting it off with Sarah which I pretty much never do. Flew her to LA and actually had a very nice time except for the sex. We had a sex fail that at least I got a BJ out of our first night. But then repeated attempts met with I'm too tired. Or not in the mood. I wasn't paying her other than the trip and spending money so maybe that led to complacency. She was totally shocked and upset when I told her the fact we haven't had sex this trip was a dealbreaker. She felt like doing her best was good enough.

I feel bad because this wasn't a malicious using of me. She's just young and naive and totally doesn't understand that the rest can be amazing, but for a guy if there isn't sex, the rest doesn't matter.

More and more I am finding getting too deep in with a girl it gets worse at some point. Like a real relationship. So my advice is keep it short. Maybe repeat a few times but at some point you got to try to exit at the first sign that it's peaked or you are going to end up in a messy valley.[/QUOTE].

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2863438]Sorry to hear about the sex fail. Yeah, they need to know this is not a real relationship. When an SB and I start to know each other well, I find that we eventually become like an old married couple. With my curent SB, she knows almost nothing about me. So she knows what our "relationship" is really all about.

.[/QUOTE]Thanks. Despite this setback I have rebounded. In Madrid, FKK in Germany, and London I managed to get off 11 shots in 5 days. So my drought was more than repaid! Damn I love this life we lead!

Visiting Europe soon. Chatted up a few girls. One seems very interesting and my type. Lets say Girl 2.

While engaging with girl 2, up until we discussing my travel plans (exact dates), none from girl 1 - who is my long term SB with whom I am on no money required stage. Its more like GF / BF.

But, now Girl 1 wants to drive to me. Last time I was there, I couldn't meet her. So, need a meeting to keep things alive. Smitten by the new one I am yet to meet.

Will be there for just 1 night. I am sensing an opportunity for threesome but not sure how to bring it up.

Risk: The new one might backoff and never see me at all. If I meet new one only, skip the old one, I have a feeling old will lose interest.

If I meet the old one only, I am not sure if I can keep the new one engaged online until next trip.

Caught from all corners.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2863676]Visiting Europe soon. Chatted up a few girls. One seems very interesting and my type. Lets say Girl 2.

While engaging with girl 2, up until we discussing my travel plans (exact dates), none from girl 1 - who is my long term SB with whom I am on no money required stage. Its more like GF / BF.

But, now Girl 1 wants to drive to me. Last time I was there, I couldn't meet her. So, need a meeting to keep things alive. Smitten by the new one I am yet to meet.

Will be there for just 1 night. I am sensing an opportunity for threesome but not sure how to bring it up.

Risk: The new one might backoff and never see me at all. If I meet new one only, skip the old one, I have a feeling old will lose interest.

If I meet the old one only, I am not sure if I can keep the new one engaged online until next trip.

Caught from all corners.[/QUOTE]My advice is that a threesome is never going to happen. Girls that don't know each other aren't going to get down. And likelihood with existing girl is it gets more rote and less awesome the further you deepen things. Try to snag the new hottie and don't look back!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2863678]My advice is that a threesome is never going to happen. Girls that don't know each other aren't going to get down. And likelihood with existing girl is it gets more rote and less awesome the further you deepen things. Try to snag the new hottie and don't look back![/QUOTE]I agree. A 3 some is very unlikely to occur. I suggest you try meeting new Girl 2 in the afternoon. Remember you haven't met her so she might be a disappointment. Have you video called her yet to see she is real? You can never truly know until you meet them, but a few video calls helps mitigate that risk.

So meet new Girl 2 in the early afternoon. If she is really amazing, ditch girl 1. But only if she is really an upgrade to girl 1.

I've juggled seeing 2 girls in the same day separately, and while stressful it can work well. Always have the more secure girl later in the day, and the less secure girl earlier. Atleast that's how I did it.

I was very active on SA for about 20 months, and used it all over the USA.

For big cities, my batting average for finally meeting gals in person, out of the gals I contacted, was way less than 1%. Literally. The attractive and youngish gals are getting hundreds of messages from hundreds of guys each week, and maybe each day. They don't have time to reply to everyone, nor the time to obviously meet all of us. In addition, many are pretty lazy to meet up and some are actually busy with jobs or school or with life in general. But for smaller cities, my average was much better, probably above 1%.

But once we met in person, then my batting average for eventually doing the deed with them was probably around 70% (of which half happened at that first meet and the other half happened at the next meet). This part all depends on chemistry and your game. When I was active on SA, I was a decent looking guy, not fat, and I think I am normal. If I were using SA today, I am sure my success rate after the first meeting in person would be much lower. For some reason, I have gotten way uglier as I have gotten older. Probably all that drinking wasn't helpful for my looks.



[QUOTE=Nachoy;2861952]For the guys have experience doing SA.

When starting out what batting average will I be expecting.

A what % of SA contacts will lead to off SA messaging.

Be what % of leads from messaging off SA leads to person meets.

See what % of initial meeting leads to ready to fuck.

Thanks for all thd contributions in this thread.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Nachoy;2861952]For the guys have experience doing SA.

When starting out what batting average will I be expecting.

A what % of SA contacts will lead to off SA messaging.

Be what % of leads from messaging off SA leads to person meets.

See what % of initial meeting leads to ready to fuck.

Thanks for all thd contributions in this thread.[/QUOTE]The percent conversation you get from initial contact is the largest falloff point. Vast majority of contacts just fizzle. I'the put it a bit higher than Midwestern did. Prob 5-10% come thru to a message. You can increase this with good text game. Make your opener interesting and try to mention something from their profile. Most responded to question is what color are your eyes? I only ask this when I can't tell but the response rate on this is nearly 100%.

Then as to be. Message to meet I'the say it's also small but that is partly my doing. I might talk seriously to five girls in a location and then decide on one or two. The key to text game is to ask questions. Anytime you just make a statement the conversation will end.

Now a few years into the game my closure rate is nearly 100%. Starting it will be less. The keys are to NEVER have a coffee date and always have drinks and take it to the room after dinner/drinks first night. I only date 21-26 years old. They are used to going out, drinking and fucking all the first night if they like a guy. So be fun and charismatic and say "want to get out of here" and take her to the hotel. Had a few fails my first year or two but once you get the hang you can close most every time (depending on game and looks. I am above average on both if I may say. But I am officially old. Hahaha).

I've used Seeking in London + European and Asian cities, and I'm selective about who I message. On average I'd get a reply from 40-50% of the girls I message, and 50% of those would be up for meeting. Some of them would then bale before the arranged meet (go quiet and not confirm my 'are we meeting' later text that I send in the morning). But anyways, during a 1 month sub I always manage 2-3 M&GS and 100% of those are successful. How many f-ing hours I waste on the website and chatting on IMs I can't say. Too many!

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2863692]I was very active on SA for about 20 months, and used it all over the USA.

For big cities, my batting average for finally meeting gals in person, out of the gals I contacted, was way less than 1%. Literally. The attractive and youngish gals are getting hundreds of messages from hundreds of guys each week, and maybe each day. They don't have time to reply to everyone, nor the time to obviously meet all of us. In addition, many are pretty lazy to meet up and some are actually busy with jobs or school or with life in general. But for smaller cities, my average was much better, probably above 1%.

But once we met in person, then my batting average for eventually doing the deed with them was probably around 70% (of which half happened at that first meet and the other half happened at the next meet). This part all depends on chemistry and your game. When I was active on SA, I was a decent looking guy, not fat, and I think I am normal. If I were using SA today, I am sure my success rate after the first meeting in person would be much lower. For some reason, I have gotten way uglier as I have gotten older. Probably all that drinking wasn't helpful for my looks.[/QUOTE]

I sometimes Seek in Tijuana. Yeah it's a mixed bag as you'd expect. A lot of escorts cross promote there. But still, some good times.

But it seems like they wiped it clean a few months ago. Like Seeking came in and cleared everyone out and rebooted Tijuana. Anyone else notice that?

Not that I live anywhere near there or know anything about it.

There should be a way to filter out that place. I've no interest in crossing or relying on her to cross for a fling. Price savings doesn't matter as I'd rather pay a premium or whatever you want to call it for a 20 something caucasian girl to come to my door.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2864640]I sometimes Seek in Tijuana. Yeah it's a mixed bag as you'd expect. A lot of escorts cross promote there. But still, some good times.

But it seems like they wiped it clean a few months ago. Like Seeking came in and cleared everyone out and rebooted Tijuana. Anyone else notice that?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2864823]Not that I live anywhere near there or know anything about it.

There should be a way to filter out that place. I've no interest in crossing or relying on her to cross for a fling. Price savings doesn't matter as I'd rather pay a premium or whatever you want to call it for a 20 something caucasian girl to come to my door.[/QUOTE]Cross? No. I go there. I like it. It's not for everyone. It's seedy and kinda dangerous. But it's an inventive city. It's like a huge gentrification experiment right now where the gentrification is in the 4th inning. Some amazing restaurants and such. But also next to half finished buildings and you have to stay in certain areas.

I'm an OG of the area and purposely stay off those boards as I'd be easy to identify. Just like everything else as we age, all I can do is ***** about how it used to be and that's enough to turn me off of taking a trip to the zona. Turns out I spend nominally more at home on SA and get more of what I want for much less hassle. Never been remotely concerned about going there for safety reasons, in fact I'm convinced the calle is probably one of the safest streets on the planet due to the hardward LE carries. The turn off is more about the constant propina, deafening music, sleezy hotels, crowds, and, most importantly, my type is generally not Latina but I have seen girls for months or even years when I found one I liked. Always from Sinaloa if that tells you what my type is.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2864951]Cross? No. I go there. I like it. It's not for everyone. It's seedy and kinda dangerous. But it's an inventive city. It's like a huge gentrification experiment right now where the gentrification is in the 4th inning. Some amazing restaurants and such. But also next to half finished buildings and you have to stay in certain areas.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2865042]I'm an OG of the area and purposely stay off those boards as I'd be easy to identify. Just like everything else as we age, all I can do is ***** about how it used to be and that's enough to turn me off of taking a trip to the zona. Turns out I spend nominally more at home on SA and get more of what I want for much less hassle. Never been remotely concerned about going there for safety reasons, in fact I'm convinced the calle is probably one of the safest streets on the planet due to the hardward LE carries. The turn off is more about the constant propina, deafening music, sleezy hotels, crowds, and, most importantly, my type is generally not Latina but I have seen girls for months or even years when I found one I liked. Always from Sinaloa if that tells you what my type is.[/QUOTE]I hear you. And of course, to each his own. But one thing I do like about going is that for a few hour drive from OC you are legitimately visit in a foreign country. And it feels like it. It's a real getaway.

I don't do zona much. It was fun a few times until it wasn't. But I do like Seeking there. I mean you have to wade through the escorts and pros. But there are some good ones mixed in.

Planning my first trip into CDMX. At the high price point for SA and it looking to still being a 1% numbers game is it really worth it for LA / CDMX? I been lucky with a much higher average using less costly alts in other locations (EU / Asia). Or am I way off based and haven't figured out no one is actually paying the 100/ month? I don't mind spending, I do mind throwing away money like everyone else.

[QUOTE=Simtel;2865148]Planning my first trip into CDMX. At the high price point for SA and it looking to still being a 1% numbers game is it really worth it for LA / CDMX? I been lucky with a much higher average using less costly alts in other locations (EU / Asia). Or am I way off based and haven't figured out no one is actually paying the 100/ month? I don't mind spending, I do mind throwing away money like everyone else.[/QUOTE]A lot of us don't spend 1200/ yr. We just sign up to collect numbers when we go somewhere. Maybe 400/ yr.

But to me that's easily worth it. It's not even a question. It's expensive but it's kind of the only game in town for this sort of thing.

Never been to CDMX. So, no comment there.

SA has been lot useful to me in EU. Less in US. However, it does produce outcomes. Requires work.

I don't pay 100 every month. I sign up, contact all the girls I "favorited" during non-sign up, chat, get numbers, operate off the phone and let subscripton expire. 3 or 4 months later, if I need fresh, I sign up again and repeat cycle.

Seeking usually sends you promo once you cancel subscription.

It's a lot of work, yes.

[QUOTE=Simtel;2865148]Planning my first trip into CDMX. At the high price point for SA and it looking to still being a 1% numbers game is it really worth it for LA / CDMX? I been lucky with a much higher average using less costly alts in other locations (EU / Asia). Or am I way off based and haven't figured out no one is actually paying the 100/ month? I don't mind spending, I do mind throwing away money like everyone else.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Simtel;2865148]Planning my first trip into CDMX. At the high price point for SA and it looking to still being a 1% numbers game is it really worth it for LA / CDMX? I been lucky with a much higher average using less costly alts in other locations (EU / Asia). Or am I way off based and haven't figured out no one is actually paying the 100/ month? I don't mind spending, I do mind throwing away money like everyone else.[/QUOTE]Seeking is worth it if you visit places where it's not easy to get pussy in a brothel or club format. Not worth it in Germany or Thailand or Brazil for example. But if u are looking for pussy in USA or CDMX or Buenos Aires then it's indispensable. CDMX does not have good options other than massage format which is not my game. I had good success with SA there but it's not cheap. And I'm one of the few that loves the shopping and chitty chat on Seeking.

And the browsing can lead to greatness. That led to for example me shopping Madrid despite a great club and brothel scene there. And that lead to meeting the only legit ten I've ever encountered. And subsequently flying her to spend 4 days with said goddess in Athens. And I can now with a straight face say I had a legit ten as my girlfriend in all ways (for a short time). Would not have happened without an active subscription and nothing better to do than browse and chat up the girls. So it has unexpected side effects.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2865312]Seeking is worth it if you visit places where it's not easy to get pussy in a brothel or club format. Not worth it in Germany or Thailand or Brazil for example. But if u are looking for pussy in USA or CDMX or Buenos Aires then it's indispensable. CDMX does not have good options other than massage format which is not my game. I had good success with SA there but it's not cheap. And I'm one of the few that loves the shopping and chitty chat on Seeking.

And the browsing can lead to greatness. That led to for example me shopping Madrid despite a great club and brothel scene there. And that lead to meeting the only legit ten I've ever encountered. And subsequently flying her to spend 4 days with said goddess in Athens. [B]And I can now with a straight face say I had a legit ten as my girlfriend [/B]in all ways (for a short time). Would not have happened without an active subscription and nothing better to do than browse and chat up the girls. So it has unexpected side effects.[/QUOTE]If you paid her she's not your GF. She is your SB. Wake up and smell the coffee.

[QUOTE=Vendelo;2866312]If you paid her she's not your GF. She is your SB. Wake up and smell the coffee.[/QUOTE]You know. You are right. Girlfriends can be moody, bitchy, and deny you sex because they aren't in the mood. No. She was definitely not my girlfriend. 😂.

I'm not going to argue that particular situation but I most definitely have had gfs from Seeking. We've had exclusivity talks, spent days together, swapped std test results, and texted throughout the day for months on end while the relationship lasted. Yes I gave her money, sometimes more than we agreed to, but it is no different (in my mind) than seeing a girl my own age that didn't have her act together and constantly needed money except that I'd never see a girl my own age without her act together. There are as many reasons as there are girls out there for being on that site and some just want stability with an older guy. I had a beautiful girl half my age (literally) talk about marriage which scared the hell out of me causing me to pull back because I didn't want to hurt her. Call it what you want, in my book it's a GF / relationship. To be fair, I've also been more engaged than she was and gotten hurt so reality isn't lost on me but it's definitely possible to have a real GF from there. I've said this a million times but for the most part money isn't the driving factor for most of the girls there. There are just too many guys and too many options for them. They need to like you on some (or several other) levels and God bless them when they do. If I could tell my 17 year old self what I'd be getting away with when I was three times that age I probably would have kicked my own ass for lying to me.

[QUOTE=Vendelo;2866312]If you paid her she's not your GF. She is your SB. Wake up and smell the coffee.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Vendelo;2866312]If you paid her she's not your GF. She is your SB. Wake up and smell the coffee.[/QUOTE]I respect the experiences of others on this thread and their commitment to the long game on some relationships. And that they can go further than the one night thing or fling. But I agree with you. I've said this here too.

I think the "but for" test applies.

If she would not be there but for your donation, she's your SB not your girlfriend.

Just like.

If they would not listen to your troubles but for your payment, it's your therapist not your confidant.

If you pay him, he's your personal trainer not your workout buddy. It doesn't mean you didn't enjoy going to the concert together and didn't have his family over for Christmas dinner and swapped Yuletides. It's just a definitional thing.

[QUOTE=Vendelo;2866312]If you paid her she's not your GF. She is your SB. Wake up and smell the coffee.[/QUOTE]The way I see it, pussy [B]always[/B] comes to a man with a payment attached to it. It may be a little, or it may be a lot, but payment is most definitely a part of it. It's just that we call the pussy different things (wife, mistress, girlfriend, sugar baby, prostitute, and so on) depending on the situation and set of circumstances involved. But any way you cut it, a man is [B]always[/B] paying for the pussy! So according to my way of thinking, a "girlfriend" can indeed be some pussy you're paying for. Lord knows that over the years I shelled out plenty of money on "girlfriends". What the woman is to you just depends on the specific circumstances and details that define the relationship. But no matter because we're [B]always[/B] paying bro. One way or the other. We're always paying! Society promotes paying under certain arrangements (wives) while discourages and even criminalizes paying under others (tutes). And then there's everything else in between. Either way? You pay.

[QUOTE=Vendelo;2866312]If you paid her she's not your GF. She is your SB. Wake up and smell the coffee.[/QUOTE]Not only that. Other important factors to consider:

Were you introduced to her family and friends? If not, she is not your GF.

Does she post about you on social media or you are always "behind the scenes" (as most sugar daddies paying for them trips)?

Do you live in the same city and share the same household? Let"s be realistic here, if you don't live in her town full time and only come down there for a week or two per year, chances are you are not in a relationship. And you both know that whatever you have is a short-term thing and most likely, not an exclusive one. You have zero control of each other's life if you don't live in the same city and don't share the same household. This is why I call BS when somebody says "I have multiple girlfriends in different countries". No dumbass, they are your SB's or fuck buddies, not your girlfriends, simply because you both are not committed.

The other day, while my SB was riding me in reverse CG, I sat up and pushed her head down, so she was now pretty much in k9. While in my sitting position, with my legs spread in front of me on the bed, I started thrusting and the penetration was deep. I've never done this position before and I would be surprised if it didn't have a name. It was a great position.

This is long but a very worthy listen of a divorce lawyers perspective on marriage and monogamy and a lot of related cultural issues. The first ten minutes are great but I ended up listening to the whole thing. And he has some gems as late as 50 minutes in about the Ten Commandments for example. Just a very engaging guy who puts a lot of stuff in perspective.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5z8-9Op2nM&t=47s&ab_channel=SoftWhiteUnderbelly[/URL]

Hat tip to Bearsi who posted this in a Brasil thread on another topic.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2867408]The other day, while my SB was riding me in reverse CG, I sat up and pushed her head down, so she was now pretty much in k9. While in my sitting position, with my legs spread in front of me on the bed, I started thrusting and the penetration was deep. I've never done this position before and I would be surprised if it didn't have a name. It was a great position.[/QUOTE]Dunno. But I've taken to naming things after the originator. Learned the "on your knees pillow under her butt missionary" from fellow ISGer Andy. So I call it The Andy. My fave which is her on her back at edge of bed, you standing I call The Steve (because like urs it didn't seem to have a name — since had an SB tell me some people call it Stand and Deliver. LOL.). And her on her side blowing you and you FIV I call Steve 2. One of my faves! So we can call this the Midwestern! 😋 I may have to give it a try!

[QUOTE=Vendelo;2866312]If you paid her she's not your GF. She is your SB. Wake up and smell the coffee.[/QUOTE]If you go on 3 dates at 4 hours a date, and your time is worth $200 an hour, aren't you paying more than if you just paid a porn star $1500 for an hour? Hell, if you worked eight of those 12 hours, you would come out ahead.

One of the dumb mantras on the site here is that line because it assumes everyone is the same and that women are only interested in money. If you are retired and are not capable of earning money, you can pay with time and brag about how little you spend.

If you do not see a woman for months and show up at her doorstep with money, is she going to fuck you? The answer is likely no if she has a BF and unlikely if she has a possessive SD, so money is not just enough. You have to pay with time too.

I give my gal $500 a month so she didn't have to work, and guys here are like I am giving her a million dollars. Still, her #1 concern is not how much I give her but how often I can see her. She wants to be with me 24-7.

If she were a hooker, money not my being with her would be her #1 concern.

And ironically I would be ahead financially if she cared more about money and less about time given the travel expenses and lost wages.

One of my gal's friends is engaged to an American but he only sees her like once every six months. Maybe his job is such that he cannot leave. I don't know. She is really hot, and I suspect he supports her because she does not have a job. Still even though she is engaged, she came onto a friend of mine because IMO she was not getting her sexual, companionship, and emotional needs met.

If you have a GF and you just pay her and do not spend time with her, and she is happy with that then I would say you have a hooker and not a GF.

For me, helping out an in demand woman financially is a bare minimum. It is like not smelling disgusting when you are near her. Why does no one ever say, "Don't shower for six months and see if she stays. " To me, it is literally the same thing.

Had a score in the US.

Been chatting this girl for over a month. Let's call her be.

We were supposed to have met long ago but something came up for her. Met last night finally. She walks in and I'm like "wow. I want to do this one tonight".

Drinks / dinner, amazing talks, chemistry. We speak about allowance but didn't have explicit agreement.

After 3 hours at dinner table, we move it to my place. More drinks and try initite. She backs away and wants to agree on ppm. Little but of a turn off but we agree on 700. Way too high but what the heck. I have a 8/9 in my room. Let's go. She wanted condoms but I talked her out of it.

To the bed, she straps me, kneels in front, a decent BJ. We kiss, we make out. Then, she kinda forces me to sit on the bed edge, and goes in to straddle me. Takes me all the way in while I'm chewing up her beautiful nipples. She rides me like crazy. We swap to a little bit doggy, then Mish. I pound her. She screams and asks me to come inside. I wasn't sure. She says she is on BC and wants me cum inside. For whatever reason, I just pulled out and came on her tummy.

Maybe she did not like it. I don't know. Wiped clean, went for a shower. Then, we had another drink. I try round 2 but she says she has a weird tummy pain.

We go to sleep. She stayed over (kinda told me she doesn't want to drive drunk).

Next morning, we wake up and I try again. Same atory. She says her tummy hurts. And left.

I have never paid 700 for a single fuck. Sitting here, I don't know what to make out of this. Don't know if I will repeat. Optics are great but some bedroom chemistry missing. Off bedroom chemistry is great.

What do ya'll think?

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2867796]Had a score in the US.

Been chatting this girl for over a month. Let's call her be.

We were supposed to have met long ago but something came up for her. Met last night finally. She walks in and I'm like "wow. I want to do this one tonight".

Drinks / dinner, amazing talks, chemistry. We speak about allowance but didn't have explicit agreement.

After 3 hours at dinner table, we move it to my place. More drinks and try initite. She backs away and wants to agree on ppm. Little but of a turn off but we agree on 700. Way too high but what the heck. I have a 8/9 in my room. Let's go. She wanted condoms but I talked her out of it.

To the bed, she straps me, kneels in front, a decent BJ. We kiss, we make out. Then, she kinda forces me to sit on the bed edge, and goes in to straddle me. Takes me all the way in while I'm chewing up her beautiful nipples. She rides me like crazy. We swap to a little bit doggy, then Mish. I pound her. She screams and asks me to come inside. I wasn't sure. She says she is on BC and wants me cum inside. For whatever reason, I just pulled out and came on her tummy.

Maybe she did not like it. I don't know. Wiped clean, went for a shower. Then, we had another drink. I try round 2 but she says she has a weird tummy pain.

We go to sleep. She stayed over (kinda told me she doesn't want to drive drunk).

Next morning, we wake up and I try again. Same atory. She says her tummy hurts. And left.

I have never paid 700 for a single fuck. Sitting here, I don't know what to make out of this. Don't know if I will repeat. Optics are great but some bedroom chemistry missing. Off bedroom chemistry is great.

What do ya'll think?[/QUOTE]Sounds like u don't regret it which is good. But $700 just hurts my head. I know the US has gone crazy but I still won't go over 500 in the US no matter what. It's just a moral line I've drawn. 😋 The key problem is she's acting a bit entitled. For 700 baby you suck it up and get it done a second time even if your tummy hurts.

I remember with Thifany in London (of course a Brasileira without entitlement issues) where we were out dancing till 4 AM but had to quit because she was throwing up in the ladies toilet. Nonetheless when we got home we fucked and she took a hot load of CIM. That's a girl who knows how this works!

Now we can't have Brasileiras and home runs all the time and the US sucks. So I suppose good that you got to fire bareback with a hottie. But any hint of entitlement just turns me off. Yes she's entitled to her 700 and you are entitled to treat her like your fuck toy at that rate IMO.

PS Reminds me why I always discuss price first these days. I’ve gotten lucky a couple times but mostly negotiating with a loaded weapon in ur pants is not a great idea.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2867796]What do ya'll think?[/QUOTE]That you should have "nutted" in her.

She let you bareback her and she seemed to be into the sex and into you. +1.

She is an 8/9. +1.

However, she did not want to go multiple rounds. -1.

You paid 700, which is a semi-crazy high price. To me, this is a wash, because this is also your fault too for paying too much.

And so, if it were me, I would see her a couple of more times and then tell her bye-bye because 700 is too much. Maybe she will like you by then, and she cuts the price to 500.

My 2 cents.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2867796]Had a score in the US.

Been chatting this girl for over a month. Let's call her be.

We were supposed to have met long ago but something came up for her. Met last night finally. She walks in and I'm like "wow. I want to do this one tonight".

Drinks / dinner, amazing talks, chemistry. We speak about allowance but didn't have explicit agreement.

After 3 hours at dinner table, we move it to my place. More drinks and try initite. She backs away and wants to agree on ppm. Little but of a turn off but we agree on 700. Way too high but what the heck. I have a 8/9 in my room. Let's go. She wanted condoms but I talked her out of it.

To the bed, she straps me, kneels in front, a decent BJ. We kiss, we make out. Then, she kinda forces me to sit on the bed edge, and goes in to straddle me. Takes me all the way in while I'm chewing up her beautiful nipples. She rides me like crazy. We swap to a little bit doggy, then Mish. I pound her. She screams and asks me to come inside. I wasn't sure. She says she is on BC and wants me cum inside. For whatever reason, I just pulled out and came on her tummy.

Maybe she did not like it. I don't know. Wiped clean, went for a shower. Then, we had another drink. I try round 2 but she says she has a weird tummy pain.

We go to sleep. She stayed over (kinda told me she doesn't want to drive drunk).

Next morning, we wake up and I try again. Same atory. She says her tummy hurts. And left.

I have never paid 700 for a single fuck. Sitting here, I don't know what to make out of this. Don't know if I will repeat. Optics are great but some bedroom chemistry missing. Off bedroom chemistry is great.

What do ya'll think?[/QUOTE]

Hahaha! I am honored to have a position named after me in your book.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2867523]Dunno. But I've taken to naming things after the originator. Learned the "on your knees pillow under her butt missionary" from fellow ISGer Andy. So I call it The Andy. My fave which is her on her back at edge of bed, you standing I call The Steve (because like urs it didn't seem to have a name since had an SB tell me some people call it Stand and Deliver. LOL.). And her on her side blowing you and you FIV I call Steve 2. One of my faves! So we can call this the Midwestern! 😋 I may have to give it a try![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2867811]Sounds like u don't regret it which is good. But $700 just hurts my head. I know the US has gone crazy but I still won't go over 500 in the US no matter what. It's just a moral line I've drawn. 😋 The key problem is she's acting a bit entitled. For 700 baby you suck it up and get it done a second time even if your tummy hurts.[/QUOTE]I offer 600 in SoCal. But I've started cutting corners on hotels and restaurants. Just realized that girls appreciate the fine dining, but they don't really need it. And only the most spoiled know the names of the Michelin spots anyways. Most girls are happy with a 28 dollar plate of food and a few drinks. And a Hilton."

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2867508]This is long but a very worthy listen of a divorce lawyers perspective on marriage and monogamy and a lot of related cultural issues. The first ten minutes are great but I ended up listening to the whole thing. And he has some gems as late as 50 minutes in about the Ten Commandments for example. Just a very engaging guy who puts a lot of stuff in perspective.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5z8-9Op2nM&t=47s&ab_channel=SoftWhiteUnderbelly[/URL]

Hat tip to Bearsi who posted this in a Brasil thread on another topic.[/QUOTE]I put that video on and could not stop watching it. Thanks for sharing it.

On the 10 commandments thing, though, in Biblical times, men would fuck their slaves if their wives could not give them kids. So adultery was fucking a woman that you did not own or rent. It was not about monogamy. It was really about theft and taking something that was not yours.

And thou shall not covet really has more to do with jealousy than sex. A person could say both were about resisting temptation, and I would agree with that, but there is not Biblical condemnation for not being monogamous and there is not Biblical condemnation for paying for sex. That is modern morality not Biblical morality.

What I liked most is this lawyer talking about a woman who quit having sex with her husband and was shocked when he cheated, and the lawyer is like, what did you expect? Then the other part about it that was great was saying, what does a man having sex with other women have to do with being a father? It was great stuff.

I saw this video service and was intrigued by the channel. There were other offerings but this one got me about a brothel owner named Freddy. He really ran an escort agency more than was a brothel owner.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9kQuy90OGM[/URL]

What struck me about this was how ethical this guy Freddy was and how much he cared about women and how hard he worked in comparison to the absolute shitbags in government. The government seized $10 million of his. Where did it go? Why did the state's attorney want this guy's client list so badly? Did he the want it so he could blackmail his way into a higher office?

But this guy Freddy is amazing. I would have love to have been one of his clients.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2868059]I offer 600 in SoCal. But I've started cutting corners on hotels and restaurants. Just realized that girls appreciate the fine dining, but they don't really need it. And only the most spoiled know the names of the Michelin spots anyways. Most girls are happy with a 28 dollar plate of food and a few drinks. And a Hilton."[/QUOTE]Yeah So Cal is a tough gig. Expensive to live there and lots of entitled pussy. I found a couple great girls that would take 5 but it was def a lot of work. In the end I figured I could fly Sue from London and over the four days it would come out less than four days of Cali girls. LOL. And of course a great life experience for her. Didn't work out perfect in the end but I don't really regret it either. She's a great girl and I enjoyed our time together.

I've paid 700 regularly and didn't see her anywhere near as much as I would have liked, always busy, school, work, blah blah blah. Sex was amazing & chemistry in out personalities was incredible. Was worth every bit of what I gave her especially since she initially asked for even more than that. For me she was the total package and the $200 difference I was giving her vs $500 for a "regular" girl or whatever your "normal" price is meant a lot more to her than it did to me. We had dates where sex wouldn't happen for whatever reason and it never bothered me much because I enjoyed her company so much.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2867796]Had a score in the US.

Been chatting this girl for over a month. Let's call her be.

We were supposed to have met long ago but something came up for her. Met last night finally. She walks in and I'm like "wow. I want to do this one tonight".

Drinks / dinner, amazing talks, chemistry. We speak about allowance but didn't have explicit agreement.

After 3 hours at dinner table, we move it to my place. More drinks and try initite. She backs away and wants to agree on ppm. Little but of a turn off but we agree on 700. Way too high but what the heck. I have a 8/9 in my room. Let's go. She wanted condoms but I talked her out of it.

To the bed, she straps me, kneels in front, a decent BJ. We kiss, we make out. Then, she kinda forces me to sit on the bed edge, and goes in to straddle me. Takes me all the way in while I'm chewing up her beautiful nipples. She rides me like crazy. We swap to a little bit doggy, then Mish. I pound her. She screams and asks me to come inside. I wasn't sure. She says she is on BC and wants me cum inside. For whatever reason, I just pulled out and came on her tummy.

Maybe she did not like it. I don't know. Wiped clean, went for a shower. Then, we had another drink. I try round 2 but she says she has a weird tummy pain.

We go to sleep. She stayed over (kinda told me she doesn't want to drive drunk).

Next morning, we wake up and I try again. Same atory. She says her tummy hurts. And left.

I have never paid 700 for a single fuck. Sitting here, I don't know what to make out of this. Don't know if I will repeat. Optics are great but some bedroom chemistry missing. Off bedroom chemistry is great.

What do ya'll think?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2868072]I saw this video service and was intrigued by the channel. There were other offerings but this one got me about a brothel owner named Freddy. He really ran an escort agency more than was a brothel owner.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9kQuy90OGM[/URL]

What struck me about this was how ethical this guy Freddy was and how much he cared about women and how hard he worked in comparison to the absolute shitbags in government. The government seized $10 million of his. Where did it go? Why did the state's attorney want this guy's client list so badly? Did he the want it so he could blackmail his way into a higher office?

But this guy Freddy is amazing. I would have love to have been one of his clients.[/QUOTE]I watched the one with "Freddy" too. Very interesting, including that he said a couple of lawyers with the District Attorney's office were clients of his as well LOL! Not a surprise at all. But, like one of the comments to the video noted, I would like to hear from some of the girls who worked for him to hear what they have to say about Freddy and how he ran the business and treated them. Just to get perspectives other than his own on how things were and what went down. But, he certainly does come across as shooting straight though. Thing is, plenty of scumbags are good at doing that! I wonder what others who know him and who dealt with him would have to say about dealing with Mr. Freddy?

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2868059]Just realized that girls appreciate the fine dining, but they don't really need it. And only the most spoiled know the names of the Michelin spots anyways. Most girls are happy with a 28 dollar plate of food and a few drinks. And a Hilton."[/QUOTE]Yeah, there's absolutely no need to be taking these girls to highbrow places to eat. When I was out there on SA, I found places offering meals from $25 to $50 per person max (drinks included) were fine. Stick to that plus $500 max on the "allowance" (I got away with $250 to bareback and sperm inside of a blue-eyed, blonde hottie) and a decent 3-star to 4-star hotel (I saved money on that too since we were fucking at my place), and you should be good! And if that isn't satisfactory enough for a spoiled, self-entitled baby, including $500 per meet max on the allowance, then I say walk until you find someone who will take that deal. For me $700 would definitely be too much. Then she's going to turnaround and not want to satisfy my sexual desire for her? I don't think so! Dude should have "nutted" in that pretty chick while the getting was good, then tell her to gets to stepping! Unless she agreed to lower her asking price. Then maybe another go. But other than that, it's done! Next!

Not a bad idea.

I checked in on her but keeping minimal. She says she is better.

Went on to add that she ordered the books we discussed. Both of us are into reading which brought out some off bedroom chemistry.

I think few meets and I could slash the price. But, either way, if she doesn't fuck at least 3 or 4 times on a full night date, I'm out.

My preferred is dinner, drinks, fuck, then fuck again. Sleep.

Wake up, morning wood, fuck. Then, breakfast. Fuck, shower and leave.

If that doesn't work. Not worth my money.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2868044]She let you bareback her and she seemed to be into the sex and into you. +1.

She is an 8/9. +1.

However, she did not want to go multiple rounds. -1.

You paid 700, which is a semi-crazy high price. To me, this is a wash, because this is also your fault too for paying too much.

And so, if it were me, I would see her a couple of more times and then tell her bye-bye because 700 is too much. Maybe she will like you by then, and she cuts the price to 500.

My 2 cents.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2868135]Not a bad idea.

I checked in on her but keeping minimal. She says she is better.

Went on to add that she ordered the books we discussed. Both of us are into reading which brought out some off bedroom chemistry.

I think few meets and I could slash the price. But, either way, if she doesn't fuck at least 3 or 4 times on a full night date, I'm out.

My preferred is dinner, drinks, fuck, then fuck again. Sleep.

Wake up, morning wood, fuck. Then, breakfast. Fuck, shower and leave.

If that doesn't work. Not worth my money.[/QUOTE]Dream on. It ain't going to happen. Based on what she got away with, no way she will let you treat her like that. GPS.

Jesus christ I couldn't do that when I was 20. The thought of it now makes my back hurt and my dick sore. Good for you if you can pull this off.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2868135]Not a bad idea.

I checked in on her but keeping minimal. She says she is better.

Went on to add that she ordered the books we discussed. Both of us are into reading which brought out some off bedroom chemistry.

I think few meets and I could slash the price. But, either way, if she doesn't fuck at least 3 or 4 times on a full night date, I'm out.

My preferred is dinner, drinks, fuck, then fuck again. Sleep.

Wake up, morning wood, fuck. Then, breakfast. Fuck, shower and leave.

If that doesn't work. Not worth my money.[/QUOTE]

She won't go for this, as she has already revealed that she has some self esteem.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2868135]Not a bad idea.

I checked in on her but keeping minimal. She says she is better.

Went on to add that she ordered the books we discussed. Both of us are into reading which brought out some off bedroom chemistry.

I think few meets and I could slash the price. But, either way, if she doesn't fuck at least 3 or 4 times on a full night date, I'm out.

My preferred is dinner, drinks, fuck, then fuck again. Sleep.

Wake up, morning wood, fuck. Then, breakfast. Fuck, shower and leave.

If that doesn't work. Not worth my money.[/QUOTE].

Yet to gain any traction on price point but on the fuck point, she has already texted me back that "I would like to make more rounds. My body just didn't cooperate that day".

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2868340]She won't go for this, as she has already revealed that she has some self esteem.

.[/QUOTE]

I'm only in my 40's.

Eventually, it will give in but for now, enjoying while it lasts.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2868204]Jesus christ I couldn't do that when I was 20. The thought of it now makes my back hurt and my dick sore. Good for you if you can pull this off.[/QUOTE]

Back in 2013-ish, while visiting an FKK, I had negotiated with a lady to have 1 round every hour. For 8 consecutive hours. I wanted to see her overnight but had to catch a flight. I was in my 30 ths then. That is still my record.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2868414]I'm only in my 40's.

Eventually, it will give in but for now, enjoying while it lasts.[/QUOTE]

I think in my mid twenties I could go twice a night. I'm not questioning your comment I'm just wondering how? As horny as I've ever been I'd maybe squeeze off two. Am I normal? Are you normal? Are either of us abnormal? My Dr started checking my testosterone levels in my yearly physical blood work and it was in the toilet when I was 40 and who knows how low it was for how long before that. I wonder if that has something to do with it. I've got the money and discipline to pretty much nail the hottest girls I can possibly find (I won't settle for anything other than super hot in my book) and I just don't see how you guys can do this all night.

[QUOTE=FishMongerC;2868421]Back in 2013-ish, while visiting an FKK, I had negotiated with a lady to have 1 round every hour. For 8 consecutive hours. I wanted to see her overnight but had to catch a flight. I was in my 30 ths then. That is still my record.[/QUOTE]

If she does this then she's worth it and a keeper.

Bareback, and she's into you, and she's at least an 8!

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2868135]Not a bad idea.

I checked in on her but keeping minimal. She says she is better.

Went on to add that she ordered the books we discussed. Both of us are into reading which brought out some off bedroom chemistry.

I think few meets and I could slash the price. But, either way, if she doesn't fuck at least 3 or 4 times on a full night date, I'm out.

My preferred is dinner, drinks, fuck, then fuck again. Sleep.

Wake up, morning wood, fuck. Then, breakfast. Fuck, shower and leave.

If that doesn't work. Not worth my money.[/QUOTE]

There are some things you can do to enhance your experience. Go the gym regularly. Do cardio or some sports. I like to play a lot of racquet sports with weights at the gym and light yoga / stretching it helps. All these help raise your testosterone levels. Then eat healthily too. I enjoy my occasional steak and hamburger, but I eat a lot of fruits, veggies. I also took ED medication which helps a great deal.

Now in my 40's I find I can only really handle twice maybe 3 times per night. But my experience was quite unique in that I had tasked her with pleasing me so many times. Her payment was dependent on that so she had a huge incentive to keep me going. And it worked and I was lucky I found someone so compliant.

After that FKK experience, I had met other SB's and I tried negotiating the same or near similar situation with a huge bonus to their PPM. I suggested to them if they make me orgasm 6 times in one overnight I will double will their PPM. No SB ever could manage.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2868517]I think in my mid twenties I could go twice a night. I'm not questioning your comment I'm just wondering how? As horny as I've ever been I'd maybe squeeze off two. Am I normal? Are you normal? Are either of us abnormal? My Dr started checking my testosterone levels in my yearly physical blood work and it was in the toilet when I was 40 and who knows how low it was for how long before that. I wonder if that has something to do with it. I've got the money and discipline to pretty much nail the hottest girls I can possibly find (I won't settle for anything other than super hot in my book) and I just don't see how you guys can do this all night.[/QUOTE]

Similar habits here.

I play competitive sports (used to be a pro but no longer). No meat, hardly any fried food (yes, I have my cheat meals), lots of veggies and fruits. Quit smoking long time ago. Cutting down on alcohol (reduced intake to about 30% of what it was 3 years ago).

Yoga, swimming, running.

That's it. I don't do anything special to be able to fuck so many times. But, I can tell you that I fuck a lot less than I did 5 years ago. So, it is declining. I can only kick the can down the road.

[QUOTE=FishMongerC;2868702]There are some things you can do to enhance your experience. Go the gym regularly. Do cardio or some sports. I like to play a lot of racquet sports with weights at the gym and light yoga / stretching it helps. All these help raise your testosterone levels. Then eat healthily too. I enjoy my occasional steak and hamburger, but I eat a lot of fruits, veggies. I also took ED medication which helps a great deal.

Now in my 40's I find I can only really handle twice maybe 3 times per night. But my experience was quite unique in that I had tasked her with pleasing me so many times. Her payment was dependent on that so she had a huge incentive to keep me going. And it worked and I was lucky I found someone so compliant.

After that FKK experience, I had met other SB's and I tried negotiating the same or near similar situation with a huge bonus to their PPM. I suggested to them if they make me orgasm 6 times in one overnight I will double will their PPM. No SB ever could manage.[/QUOTE]

Thanks to both of you on the advice.

Decided to drop the new hottie. Keeping her warm, though.

Going ahead with my regular because I owe her this one. She has been having a rough time and she just wants to see me and relax. I'm happy to do that for her because she has become a friend of mine over the years.

And, yes, we fuck like dogs.

No PPM, no transactions, no pressure on anything. She and I are absolutely just ourselves with each other.

We are intending to hit some swinger clubs and see how it goes.

[QUOTE=FishMongerC;2863689]I agree. A 3 some is very unlikely to occur. I suggest you try meeting new Girl 2 in the afternoon. Remember you haven't met her so she might be a disappointment. Have you video called her yet to see she is real? You can never truly know until you meet them, but a few video calls helps mitigate that risk.

So meet new Girl 2 in the early afternoon. If she is really amazing, ditch girl 1. But only if she is really an upgrade to girl 1.

I've juggled seeing 2 girls in the same day separately, and while stressful it can work well. Always have the more secure girl later in the day, and the less secure girl earlier. Atleast that's how I did it.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2867796]Had a score in the US.

Been chatting this girl for over a month. Let's call her be.

We were supposed to have met long ago but something came up for her. Met last night finally. She walks in and I'm like "wow. I want to do this one tonight".

Drinks / dinner, amazing talks, chemistry. We speak about allowance but didn't have explicit agreement.

After 3 hours at dinner table, we move it to my place. More drinks and try initite. She backs away and wants to agree on ppm. Little but of a turn off but we agree on 700. Way too high but what the heck. I have a 8/9 in my room. Let's go. She wanted condoms but I talked her out of it.

To the bed, she straps me, kneels in front, a decent BJ. We kiss, we make out. Then, she kinda forces me to sit on the bed edge, and goes in to straddle me. Takes me all the way in while I'm chewing up her beautiful nipples. She rides me like crazy. We swap to a little bit doggy, then Mish. I pound her. She screams and asks me to come inside. I wasn't sure. She says she is on BC and wants me cum inside. For whatever reason, I just pulled out and came on her tummy.

Maybe she did not like it. I don't know. Wiped clean, went for a shower. Then, we had another drink. I try round 2 but she says she has a weird tummy pain.

We go to sleep. She stayed over (kinda told me she doesn't want to drive drunk).

Next morning, we wake up and I try again. Same atory. She says her tummy hurts. And left.

I have never paid 700 for a single fuck. Sitting here, I don't know what to make out of this. Don't know if I will repeat. Optics are great but some bedroom chemistry missing. Off bedroom chemistry is great.

What do ya'll think?[/QUOTE]Do you usually wait to address ppm? I always worry about this so try to bring up allowance / ppm before we meet. Which part of the US was it? I'm guessing coastal.

No. Normally, I don't wait. I sort it within an hour of first M&G.

This was a fucking 3 hour dinner / drinks. It was so enjoyable our convo.

The ppm point did come up, she mentioned 800, and I said "ouch. That's beyond me". We had a few words and then, flipped back to other enjoyable convo. We both let it slide.

And, yes. Coastal. West.

To be Honest, nothing against tech folks but I see that any tech heavy city I go to, the prices are unrealistic and the platinum pussy syndrome becomes more frequent.

[QUOTE=GoingDumb;2869134]Do you usually wait to address ppm? I always worry about this so try to bring up allowance / ppm before we meet. Which part of the US was it? I'm guessing coastal.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TheCane;2868126]Just to get perspectives other than his own on how things were and what went down.[/QUOTE]Three people in comments section said they knew him, two comments good, one not so good.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2868126]But, like one of the comments to the video noted, I would like to hear from some of the girls who worked for him to hear what they have to say about Freddy and how he ran the business and treated them.[/QUOTE]I would have liked to have seen that too, but I doubt any of the woman would like to be identified.

[QUOTE=FishMongerC;2868702]After that FKK experience, I had met other SB's and I tried negotiating the same or near similar situation with a huge bonus to their PPM. I suggested to them if they make me orgasm 6 times in one overnight I will double will their PPM. No SB ever could manage.[/QUOTE]LOL. I like the incentive plan. I cannot imagine sex these days without ED medicine. With my ex wife, she even got to the point of suggesting I take it.

I have found stimulants make me hornier and make for more sperm production. Diet is huge. Any time I cut down on meals and especially bread I have better sex and can go longer.

There is this SSRI you can buy from India that is supposed to make you last longer but it cut down on my hardness instead. Actually, good old ibuprofen makes me last longer. Sleeping pills do the same but I am prone to want to sleep as opposed to bang.

A guy on line bragged about celery juice making your load larger. I tried it and it worked. Funny thing is I did not enjoy the orgasm as much when my load was big. Nonetheless, I ordered it by the case at first.

My mother came over, looked in the fridge, and saw all the celery juice, and she said, "What's up with all the celery juice?" I was like, "Uh, I like the taste mom."

Truth is if you put the celery juice on ice, it is not too bad. It is kind of like eating cardboard with chocolate syrup.

Anyone tried seeking in NZ? Any luck?

Had a friend asking about Baires (what the girls call it) Seeking scene and dug up this report from two years back. It's a fun read and some pretty good advice at the end. Hope it's useful / fun for one or more of you.

Buenos Aires is pretty well known to be not great for P4 P. Last time I was there I was exclusively with a Seeking Girl named Valentina and it was marvelous. So I went purely the Seeking route this time as well.

It actually can be a bit tricky the way I play it because I'm not the kinda guy who sets up redundant dates and such. I really try to be honest with the girls, including that I am only in town a couple days (usually break this news later) and so the logistics can be hard to ensure you don't end up with a date with Mr Hand. (Never have fwiw).

I started 6 weeks out. Not because that is a good idea but just because I always get excited and start browsing and one thing leads to another. I had probably 5-6 girls on pretty active chat up until about two weeks before, but let some of those fade as I focused in on two girls Becca and Lucia.

Both of these girls have GREAT English and both really fun to chat with. In the end Lucia edged out Becca by just being a bit more engaged. I think I stopped being active with Becca a few days before the trip and she was not actively courting me.

Once in town, Lucia was a bit tough to pin down on date time that evening. Got a bit worried and in fact pinged Becca that first day thinking Lucia was bagging. Becca was really nice about me springing a same day date on her but said she couldn't that first night but she could night two, so I kept this warm. I wasn't in a panic, having just banged 7 girls in Colombia (see Medellin thread soon) but I would lament an empty night nonetheless.

In the end, Lucia came through and turned out to be an amazing pick. From her pictures you could see that she was very pretty and she'the sent some unfiltered shots. Like a solid 8. But when we met at the restaurant I about dropped a load on the floor. A 10 face for me no lie. And her bod turned out to be a 9 for sure. Home run in the optics dept.

Dinner and a walk around Puerto Madero were amazing. So easy and comfortable. Two hours completely flew by! Some light kissing as the Uber arrives. Back in the room it was an OK experience but nothing to write home about. She is super beautiful but either awkward or pro trying to get straight to fucking with no BJ and really not too much effort when I went soft. 10 face 9 body and 5 in the bed. Boo a little disappointed in the end because otherwise this girl is a rockstar. But overall had a great night despite the lame sex!

We planned to meetup again the next night but I was a bit lukewarm. And she was pretty difficult about staying in touch. It wasn't clear whether we were on or off. And this was a bit of a theme with her once in town.

So about 2 Pm or so I ping Becca because Lucia is unsure. But Becca says family matters came up and she can't. At four I send Lucia a message that I want to meet her no matter what time and I can tell she's read it. No response so now onto plan see! Can't wait forever.

I start spamming all the girls I had moved to WhatApp chat but let fizzle. Probably 5-7 girls. Plus I start hitting new Seeking girls with "I going out to a nice dinner tonight. Join me?" (I've used this before with success) and get 3 or 4 convos started.

But as luck would have it one of my WhatsApp girls comes back and says she'the love too. She was like number five on my list so clearly keeping a deep bench is a key strategic move. So now it's on with Meli. Woo hoo! Really quite a coup to get an 8 o'clock date at 4 o'clock! Wow. Stoked.

It turns out Meli could use a new photographer. Because she's a solid 8 with amazing natural firm the or DD cups. Beautiful face and bubbly and fun at dinner.

I feel a little bad but I use the exact same playbook as the prior night, because making reservations over the phone in Spanish is not my forte. So same restaurant leading to same walk and same Uber pickup. Dinner is quite different though because she doesn't speak a lick of English. We laugh a ton using Google translate. And her trying to say English words is nothing short of comedic. She is sooooo bad. Just literally cannot pronounce the English sounds. So fun. So much laughter and clear chemistry.

(Lucia hits me up midway through but I say I am out with colleagues.).

In the bedroom it's night and day. This girl loves to kiss, great BJ and no pillow-princess. She is very ready to rumble, submissive, and passionate.

The highlight is that I am hard to finish.

How could that be a highlight? Well after a ton of fucking I have to go pee. And when I return (pretty soft) she says "so what do you want to do". I think this is her saying "you tired me out and you didn't cum so maybe I should just go?" I have seen this once or twice. But I just say "um continuar?

Apparently that wasn't what she was saying at all! She was just asking what's my pleasure! So she gets me going and mounts up BAREBACK. Wow. She feels fucking amazing and seems to enjoy it as much as I do.

So we do some amazing fucking. LOL. Doggie, the Steve, and mish in pretty short order. Making out in mish is as usual the ticket (not all girls like this) and I pull out to shoot a few shots on her tummy which she smiles a giant smile at. Wow. That was pretty epic.

Side note: Another Seeking bareback girl!

So Buenos Aires had several great lessons to be learned. Or perhaps just reinforced:

Seeking still rocks in countries where P4 P is poor.

Starting 6 weeks out, while not recommended, has worked great several times so maybe it's not bad.

Aggressive last minute opener "I'm going out you coming" def has super high engagement rate.

Always keep the girls warm without being disingenuous. You may need them!

Girls will def see you even if they know it's only a night or two.

An 8 with a 9 performance beats a 10 with a 5 performance any day.

All in all a great time for just a two day quickie.

How early is too early to make contact when you're on their turf? I first used seeking years ago to meet girls before a pleasure trip outside of my city. I started one month out and pretty much had a lineup in a couple weeks so I decided to see how it worked locally. Had never considered using it locally, don't know why, just didn't. Found 2 amazing girls, great chemistry with both but made the rookie mistake of not closing the deal even though we were at my house at the end of the first meeting. Mutually agreed to see both (separately) after my trip, including ppm amounts, and upon my return both ghosted me. It occurred to me that I had basically given them both a couple weeks to do better than me which they apparently did.

Like Steve, I get excited and start searching several weeks, sometimes months, before the date of travel. I'll buy an account two months out, reasoning that pros will have no patience for something that far out and they'll be turned off immediately when I tell them I'm two months out (I don't use seeking for pros, at most semi pros, but prefer legit girls next door). I also figure the targets are on the fence at best but have probably done this once or twice and understand there needs to be some kind of connection other than money so a convo over several weeks to build that connection works in both of our favors. She's less likely to flake if she's got time invested other than what, where, when, and how much.

So what's too early / what's ideal? I've got a paid account on another sugar site appropriate to my destination but has been dead for a couple weeks. It exploded recently by simplying following up with girls that had replied with something basic to my original ice breaker. As I was hoping, the time wasters and pros didn't give me the time of day after I told them I was more than a month out. I actually had about 3 hrs worth of back and forth with another one who doesn't seem to be fazed at all that her time would be rewarded several weeks in the future. This is exactly the kind of girl I'm looking for, she's real and asks real get to know you questions, never mentioned compensation once, and answers my questions toughtfully with detail). At some point it's my job to bring up the compensation part and I will before she loses interest but knowing she's willing to display some amount of effort goes a long way in my book.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2869165]Had a friend asking about Baires (what the girls call it) Seeking scene and dug up this report from two years back. It's a fun read and some pretty good advice at the end. Hope it's useful / fun for one or more of you.

Buenos Aires is pretty well known to be not great for P4 P. Last time I was there I was exclusively with a Seeking Girl named Valentina and it was marvelous. So I went purely the Seeking route this time as well.

It actually can be a bit tricky the way I play it because I'm not the kinda guy who sets up redundant dates and such. I really try to be honest with the girls, including that I am only in town a couple days (usually break this news later) and so the logistics can be hard to ensure you don't end up with a date with Mr Hand. (Never have fwiw).

I started 6 weeks out. Not because that is a good idea but just because I always get excited and start browsing and one thing leads to another. I had probably 5-6 girls on pretty active chat up until about two weeks before, but let some of those fade as I focused in on two girls Becca and Lucia.

Both of these girls have GREAT English and both really fun to chat with. In the end Lucia edged out Becca by just being a bit more engaged. I think I stopped being active with Becca a few days before the trip and she was not actively courting me.

Once in town, Lucia was a bit tough to pin down on date time that evening. Got a bit worried and in fact pinged Becca that first day thinking Lucia was bagging. Becca was really nice about me springing a same day date on her but said she couldn't that first night but she could night two, so I kept this warm. I wasn't in a panic, having just banged 7 girls in Colombia (see Medellin thread soon) but I would lament an empty night nonetheless.

In the end, Lucia came through and turned out to be an amazing pick. From her pictures you could see that she was very pretty and she'the sent some unfiltered shots. Like a solid 8. But when we met at the restaurant I about dropped a load on the floor. A 10 face for me no lie. And her bod turned out to be a 9 for sure. Home run in the optics dept.

Dinner and a walk around Puerto Madero were amazing. So easy and comfortable. Two hours completely flew by! Some light kissing as the Uber arrives. Back in the room it was an OK experience but nothing to write home about. She is super beautiful but either awkward or pro trying to get straight to fucking with no BJ and really not too much effort when I went soft. 10 face 9 body and 5 in the bed. Boo a little disappointed in the end because otherwise this girl is a rockstar. But overall had a great night despite the lame sex!

We planned to meetup again the next night but I was a bit lukewarm. And she was pretty difficult about staying in touch. It wasn't clear whether we were on or off. And this was a bit of a theme with her once in town.

So about 2 Pm or so I ping Becca because Lucia is unsure. But Becca says family matters came up and she can't. At four I send Lucia a message that I want to meet her no matter what time and I can tell she's read it. No response so now onto plan see! Can't wait forever.

I start spamming all the girls I had moved to WhatApp chat but let fizzle. Probably 5-7 girls. Plus I start hitting new Seeking girls with "I going out to a nice dinner tonight. Join me?" (I've used this before with success) and get 3 or 4 convos started.

But as luck would have it one of my WhatsApp girls comes back and says she'the love too. She was like number five on my list so clearly keeping a deep bench is a key strategic move. So now it's on with Meli. Woo hoo! Really quite a coup to get an 8 o'clock date at 4 o'clock! Wow. Stoked.

It turns out Meli could use a new photographer. Because she's a solid 8 with amazing natural firm the or DD cups. Beautiful face and bubbly and fun at dinner.

I feel a little bad but I use the exact same playbook as the prior night, because making reservations over the phone in Spanish is not my forte. So same restaurant leading to same walk and same Uber pickup. Dinner is quite different though because she doesn't speak a lick of English. We laugh a ton using Google translate. And her trying to say English words is nothing short of comedic. She is sooooo bad. Just literally cannot pronounce the English sounds. So fun. So much laughter and clear chemistry.

(Lucia hits me up midway through but I say I am out with colleagues.).

In the bedroom it's night and day. This girl loves to kiss, great BJ and no pillow-princess. She is very ready to rumble, submissive, and passionate.

The highlight is that I am hard to finish.

How could that be a highlight? Well after a ton of fucking I have to go pee. And when I return (pretty soft) she says "so what do you want to do". I think this is her saying "you tired me out and you didn't cum so maybe I should just go?" I have seen this once or twice. But I just say "um continuar?

Apparently that wasn't what she was saying at all! She was just asking what's my pleasure! So she gets me going and mounts up BAREBACK. Wow. She feels fucking amazing and seems to enjoy it as much as I do.

So we do some amazing fucking. LOL. Doggie, the Steve, and mish in pretty short order. Making out in mish is as usual the ticket (not all girls like this) and I pull out to shoot a few shots on her tummy which she smiles a giant smile at. Wow. That was pretty epic.

Side note: Another Seeking bareback girl!

So Buenos Aires had several great lessons to be learned. Or perhaps just reinforced:

Seeking still rocks in countries where P4 P is poor.

Starting 6 weeks out, while not recommended, has worked great several times so maybe it's not bad.

Aggressive last minute opener "I'm going out you coming" def has super high engagement rate.

Always keep the girls warm without being disingenuous. You may need them!

Girls will def see you even if they know it's only a night or two.

An 8 with a 9 performance beats a 10 with a 5 performance any day.

All in all a great time for just a two day quickie.[/QUOTE]

I can't answer your question directly but what I'd do is create a search based on whatever you're looking for and sort the results by last login. If you have pages and pages of profiles that have all logged in in the last few days I'd say the odds are good and it's up to your game. If you get to the end of the first page and the last profile logged in 6 months ago, go find yourself another nut to crack.

[QUOTE=GoingDumb;2869150]Anyone tried seeking in NZ? Any luck?[/QUOTE]

I met 3 girls in Medellin and 3 in Bogota. I spent the night with all the girls except one who changed mind once she was in my uber.

Medellin.

First girl was hot and I probably overpaid but it was my first night in Medellin and I had been holding my nutt. I won't post pics but she was sexy 9/10 with long black hair, big butt, big tits, and big lips. We agreed on 1 million for the night but once she got their she told me sex only one time and leave at 3 am, total hooker. I was just so horny so we ended up doing 1. 3 for all night and sex 4 times BBFS. I probably overpaid but it was nice busting that fat nut I had been holding inside.

Second girl knew English and was probably a 7/10. I paid her 800 k for TLN but we spent many hours together, maybe 16 hours. She taught me a bunch of spanish and was great, everything bbfscip.

Third girl catfished me and also told me she can't stay the night after we agreed. I originally told her 600 k but I paid her 300 k and she was cool with it. We spent like 4 hours together and had BBFS two times. She was sticking her tongue down my asshole and licking me for awhile, very nice.

Bogota.

First girl in Bogota was probbaly the worst the entire trip. Catfished and I gave her like 600 k for TLN but she looked like 5/10 at best. I could have sent her away but by the time you set up everything and get her over I was so horny so I just pumped a few nuts in her, fell asleep and she left around 8 or 9 am.

Second girl was girl next door type spinner and barely 18 since June. Gave her 700 k for the night and she was cool and cute but nothing to right home about, probably a 6 or 7 out of 10 looks wise.

Third girl looks wise was maybe 5/10 but her english was very good so it was easier for me since my spanish is weak. I barebacked her anal and busted a fat nut inside her asshole, good times.

The girls in Medellin on average are hotter but their were some hot girls in Bogota seeking. I actually had a few I was messaging and was going to meet this Hot girl my last day for 1 million but I ran out of time. One crazy girl in Bogota wanted 3 million for an all nighter with condom, crazy. She was hot but I would never do that. I don't usually recommend bringing up condom use until the girl is with you on the bed unless she is obviously a hooker calling you 'amor' every sentence.

Guys tell me, are my prices low, average or high? The first girl seemed high but prices are all over the place on seeking its hard to say. I spent less money in mexico city on girls than I did it Colombia, crazy. Next stop, SE asia.

So in summer 2022 I was visiting a male friend in Stockholm for a few weeks. Since prostitution is ilegal there, punishing the customer, I was expecting a very dry season. But I tried with seeking.

Most women would just ignore my messages (I look middle eastern, early 30's, in shape). Only 1 was answering, she had full lingerie pictures on her profile, really looked like an escort. We moved to whatsapp and I asked her for face pics, she sent me some and she was ok, but I don't know why I didn't like that she was never smiling. Probably crooked teeth.

Just 1 week before arriving I got a message from a 23 yo who just said "Hii do you offer sugar for sex", her pics were pretty bad quality, but she had an amazing body, smile and was the typical tall blonde. So, just because she was the one talking to me first, I decided to go ahead and meet her.

We arranged for 3000 crowns and she went directly to my hotel (I booked a one night hotel, because I was staying at my friend's place). And, she was amazing, tall, we fucked twice in the first meeting and she stayed for about 5 hours. She told me she couldn't stay overnight because she still lived with her parents. We met another time that same week and was also pretty good sex! I have trouble cumming and on our last meeting she would just do a long and steady blowjob until she made me cum!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2869165]Had a friend asking about Baires (what the girls call it) Seeking scene and dug up this report from two years back. It's a fun read and some pretty good advice at the end. Hope it's useful / fun for one or more of you.

All in all a great time for just a two day quickie.[/QUOTE]What is the allowance of the girls of Buenos Aires?

[QUOTE=Aksmn;2869248]What is the allowance of the girls of Buenos Aires?[/QUOTE]I don't have any current info. When I visited a couple years back $200 to $300.

My regular couldn't make it. Went with a new one that I had been chatting up.

Gosh. This one squirts. Every 10/15 strokes she squirtred.

A new experience for me.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2869190]How early is too early to make contact when you're on their turf? I first used seeking years ago to meet girls before a pleasure trip outside of my city. I started one month out and pretty much had a lineup in a couple weeks so I decided to see how it worked locally. Had never considered using it locally, don't know why, just didn't. Found 2 amazing girls, great chemistry with both but made the rookie mistake of not closing the deal even though we were at my house at the end of the first meeting. Mutually agreed to see both (separately) after my trip, including ppm amounts, and upon my return both ghosted me. It occurred to me that I had basically given them both a couple weeks to do better than me which they apparently did.

Like Steve, I get excited and start searching several weeks, sometimes months, before the date of travel. I'll buy an account two months out, reasoning that pros will have no patience for something that far out and they'll be turned off immediately when I tell them I'm two months out (I don't use seeking for pros, at most semi pros, but prefer legit girls next door). I also figure the targets are on the fence at best but have probably done this once or twice and understand there needs to be some kind of connection other than money so a convo over several weeks to build that connection works in both of our favors. She's less likely to flake if she's got time invested other than what, where, when, and how much.

So what's too early / what's ideal? I've got a paid account on another sugar site appropriate to my destination but has been dead for a couple weeks. It exploded recently by simplying following up with girls that had replied with something basic to my original ice breaker. As I was hoping, the time wasters and pros didn't give me the time of day after I told them I was more than a month out. I actually had about 3 hrs worth of back and forth with another one who doesn't seem to be fazed at all that her time would be rewarded several weeks in the future. This is exactly the kind of girl I'm looking for, she's real and asks real get to know you questions, never mentioned compensation once, and answers my questions toughtfully with detail). At some point it's my job to bring up the compensation part and I will before she loses interest but knowing she's willing to display some amount of effort goes a long way in my book.[/QUOTE]My experience is that two weeks out is probably optimal because you don't have to chat endlessly but it's def enough. At the far end of the spectrum I've had some awesome girls engage and stay with me six weeks out. I think that's the max tho. Super hard to maintain any enthusiasm either direction for much longer.

That said, the minimum is just a few hours. I have had some amazing dates with the "I'm going to a nice dinner tonight. Join me?" Opener and been fucking just a few hours later. I did this out of desperation at first but prob had 5-10 dates closed quickly like this and with good outcomes.

Valid reasoning and advice. I will try the last minute dinner thing. I've met plenty of girls who just like to have nice dinners and have gone so far as to say guys their age can't afford it. Thanks to all the young broke guys paving the way for us! .

This is a data point and probably a fluke and I don't remember posting this before, but I may have. I met a legit psychiatrist in another city with her own practice about 6 weeks prior, we hit it off so well we chatted for several hours almost daily until we met. First date was amazing, we picked up like old friends. Don't expect anything like that again but it keeps me going back.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2869986]My experience is that two weeks out is probably optimal because you don't have to chat endlessly but it's def enough. At the far end of the spectrum I've had some awesome girls engage and stay with me six weeks out. I think that's the max tho. Super hard to maintain any enthusiasm either direction for much longer.

That said, the minimum is just a few hours. I have had some amazing dates with the "I'm going to a nice dinner tonight. Join me?" Opener and been fucking just a few hours later. I did this out of desperation at first but prob had 5-10 dates closed quickly like this and with good outcomes.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2870131]Valid reasoning and advice. I will try the last minute dinner thing. I've met plenty of girls who just like to have nice dinners and have gone so far as to say guys their age can't afford it. Thanks to all the young broke guys paving the way for us! .

This is a data point and probably a fluke and I don't remember posting this before, but I may have. I met a legit psychiatrist in another city with her own practice about 6 weeks prior, we hit it off so well we chatted for several hours almost daily until we met. First date was amazing, we picked up like old friends. Don't expect anything like that again but it keeps me going back.[/QUOTE]Every time I take a trip I learn girls don't like it when you try to make plans more than a few weeks out. (These aren't girls with corporate style outlook calendars).

Every time I find that all my commitments come a week or less before.

Every time I tell myself next time I'll wait till closer to the date so I don't burn out with the ones I want most by coming in too early.

Every time I break that commitment and do it too early anyways.

It's a bad habit.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2869525]My regular couldn't make it. Went with a new one that I had been chatting up.

Gosh. This one squirts. Every 10/15 strokes she squirtred.

A new experience for me.[/QUOTE]I've had at least a half dozen squirters, and it's different and fun, and squirters are even proud of their squirting. But in my entire life, I also had two gushers. It just gushes out and it feels amazing. One time, I was DATYing one of them while she was sitting on my face, and when she came it felt like someone splashed a bucket of warm water all over my face. I actually choked from all that water (or whatever that is). Same thing when they rode me CG, when they came, it was like a bucket of warm water was dumped onto my cock. The sheets were totally soaked. One time, I was doing one of them while I was standing up, and it just felt like and endless amount of water was going down my legs. Afterwards, in the middle of the night, I went to pee and slipped on the water. The floor was covered with water. That was a thing with these two gushers, it's that they came so much and so often. But LOL, they both told me that BFs eventually get annoyed with their gushing. I can totally see that happening. But I had a great time with these two gushers. They both felt any gal can be a gusher as long as she can feel comfortable with doing it. Here's a weird coincidence: they were both potheads.

Sorry to be the party pooper, but:

Conclusions: The present data based on ultrasonographic bladder monitoring and biochemical analyses indicate that squirting is essentially the involuntary emission of urine during sexual activity, although a marginal contribution of prostatic secretions to the emitted fluid often exists.

Nature and origin of "squirting" in female sexuality. PubMed.

National Institutes of Health (. Gov).

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2869986] I have had some amazing dates with the "I'm going to a nice dinner tonight. Join me?" Opener and been fucking just a few hours later. [/QUOTE]I had similar last-minute experiences, minus the dinner. Just "hey, are you free tonight? Let's meet up? Can I get you an Uber?" Not with escorts, just busy girls who need money and don't have much time. It's almost like a vanilla tinder-style hookup. They are young, broke, and free and horny at the moment, so they're game. Depends on the region too: this works better in LatAm. And to be honest, the hottest girls are not that easy, so it's a sacrifice of looks for immediacy.

Reaching out 4-6 weeks out helps to get numbers for girls who just made their Seeking profile and may not use it again. But if you got their wa / tg and she likes you, she might still meet and fuck when you show up in town. Also, some girls only check their seeking account once every 2 weeks, so there's all kinds, in my experience.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2869190] I've got a paid account on another sugar site appropriate to my destination [/QUOTE]Which site if I may ask?

On the site I'm on now, I can't get the time of day from my most desirable category (legit students or young professionals) they probaby get stood up and wanked around as much as us if you think about it. There is no shortage of messages on an announcement board saying meet in xyz on ABC date. But nothing more than a few days out. I suspect though that these are pros and I'm trying to stay away from pros.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2870503]Every time I take a trip I learn girls don't like it when you try to make plans more than a few weeks out. (These aren't girls with corporate style outlook calendars).

Every time I find that all my commitments come a week or less before.

Every time I tell myself next time I'll wait till closer to the date so I don't burn out with the ones I want most by coming in too early.

Every time I break that commitment and do it too early anyways.

It's a bad habit.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2871143]I've had at least a half dozen squirters, and it's different and fun, and squirters are even proud of their squirting. But in my entire life, I also had two gushers. It just gushes out and it feels amazing. One time, I was DATYing one of them while she was sitting on my face, and when she came it felt like someone splashed a bucket of warm water all over my face. I actually choked from all that water (or whatever that is). Same thing when they rode me CG, when they came, it was like a bucket of warm water was dumped onto my cock. The sheets were totally soaked. One time, I was doing one of them while I was standing up, and it just felt like and endless amount of water was going down my legs. Afterwards, in the middle of the night, I went to pee and slipped on the water. The floor was covered with water. That was a thing with these two gushers, it's that they came so much and so often. But LOL, they both told me that BFs eventually get annoyed with their gushing. I can totally see that happening. But I had a great time with these two gushers. They both felt any gal can be a gusher as long as she can feel comfortable with doing it. Here's a weird coincidence: they were both potheads.[/QUOTE]So interesting how much there are different strokes for different folks. Squirting totally grossed me out. It looks like a huge mucus dump to me. Not knocking anyone's preferences. I'm actually glad there are people who like this so there is someone for everyone.

I also don't get eating ass. Or meat muffin vaginas. Or fake tits. Or the porn star look. But there's an ass for every seat and that's why the world works!

I fully intend to post my experience and results but long after my trip as I don't want anybody to know see a bunch of posts from this account that happen to correspond with dates they know I'm there. Not sure kt will be here though probably needs a new thread as it's not seeking.

[QUOTE=NoBuglyFitches;2871152]Which site if I may ask?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2871377]I fully intend to post my experience and results but long after my trip as I don't want anybody to know see a bunch of posts from this account that happen to correspond with dates they know I'm there. Not sure kt will be here though probably needs a new thread as it's not seeking.[/QUOTE]Please post here when you are ready. This is the place with the most like minded guys. We talk about Secret Benefits and other sites that suck money for nothing. So if you found something good please share here. We are def all interested.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2871377]I fully intend to post my experience and results but long after my trip as I don't want anybody to know see a bunch of posts from this account that happen to correspond with dates they know I'm there. Not sure kt will be here though probably needs a new thread as it's not seeking.[/QUOTE]This is so me. I also found some local variants in Europe but didn't post when I was there because some of my friends knew my itinerary.

But I still want to read your story!

My friends know who, what, where, when, and how much. And pics if I have them. It's acquaintances and family outing me that I'm worried about. I will post here but don't hold your breath, it's going to be a while.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2871521]This is so me. I also found some local variants in Europe but didn't post when I was there because some of my friends knew my itinerary.

But I still want to read your story![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2871652]My friends know who, what, where, when, and how much. And pics if I have them. It's acquaintances and family outing me that I'm worried about. I will post here but don't hold your breath, it's going to be a while.[/QUOTE]Even my closest friends don't get the scoop.

As Benjamin Franklin said, two people can keep it secret as long as one of them is dead.

Old Ben was wise. I have 3 friends. The kind you can ask for a 100 k loan knowing it'll be there within an hour. Everyone else in my life is an acquaintance and I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them (and I'm a reasonably small dude). I'm worried about employees, family members, etc. Who know me but don't know this side of me. Last thing I need is for them to piece together all my posts against my vacation calendar and I've got lots of splaining to do Lucy. Fortunately I don't have wife problems anymore but family would be very embarrassing and uncomfortable without all the crying and throwing shit.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2871879]Even my closest friends don't get the scoop.

As Benjamin Franklin said, two people can keep it secret as long as one of them is dead.[/QUOTE]

I heard somewhere that webcams are increasingly being used for various activities these days, so for my next autumn visit, I am looking for a female webcam host as the protagonist. Though none of the dating sites I've joined so far will discuss takeout as an option.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2871960]Old Ben was wise. I have 3 friends. The kind you can ask for a 100 k loan knowing it'll be there within an hour. Everyone else in my life is an acquaintance and I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them (and I'm a reasonably small dude). I'm worried about employees, family members, etc. Who know me but don't know this side of me. Last thing I need is for them to piece together all my posts against my vacation calendar and I've got lots of splaining to do Lucy. Fortunately I don't have wife problems anymore but family would be very embarrassing and uncomfortable without all the crying and throwing shit.[/QUOTE]Sent you dm.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2871879]Even my closest friends don't get the scoop. As Benjamin Franklin said, two people can keep it secret as long as one of them is dead.[/QUOTE]As a now deceased friend of mine used to say, the best kept secret is one known only to one. The only people who know of this side of me are on this site (and a couple of others), but I don't "know" anyone here. And that's how I intend to keep it, at least for the foreseeable future.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2871960]Who know me but don't know this side of me. Last thing I need is for them to piece together all my posts against my vacation calendar and I've got lots of splaining to do Lucy. Fortunately I don't have wife problems anymore but family would be very embarrassing and uncomfortable without all the crying and throwing shit.[/QUOTE]I think you might also have a different reason for not talking. Thing about shame is I kind of came out and told a lot of people about my mongering life. It was weird. Once I felt no shame in doing so, it was like people want others to be happy and if you are happy, then they are happy with one exception.

It is like if you are fucking hot women, guys have to make up an excuse as to why they are not. I was loyal to my wife. I am a Christian. Blah, blah, blah. I was like, "These women were hookers, and this really is not a competition. ".

Thing is I met a great woman off seeking and am committed to her and people see us and how happy they are and now I am like having to explain that finding a woman like my current one was 20 years in the making. The flip side to that was finding one woman to commit to was harder than having a harem of sugar babes, and I was almost as happy with that. It is just that people did not get to see my happiness with the harem.

So now people want what I have and I am like, "Who the fuck doesn't? But that is really hard. Finding one women to meet all your sexual needs is tough and having a quality harem is a lot more doable. I never got really hurt breaking it off with a SB. It got you the sex and companionship with a lot less drama.

Still, there is so much sexual misery out there that if you tell other men you are having a ton of fun, they may leave their wives and kids. I know that I was. I was stuck in a situation where I was taking care of a wife who was a fucking * who got off on putting me down. A guy wrote a book called a World without Men, and his point is that it is man's sex drive that propels society, and this constant catering to women and putting men down is creating loads of incels that will cause the demise of society. A big reason I got to where I was was pursuit of pussy.

So Thanksgiving rolls around, and I let the kids in the family play with my tablet and one game was Plants versus Zombies and there was a plant shooting peas, and I was asked, "Do you have any games where there is no shooting? And I just shook my head. I played with toy guns when I was young. It was fun. It was normal. Everyone did it, and we did not shoot up schools because we were not mentally ill.

One young male member of the family came out and said he was trans, and I do not think he is. I think he said that as an excuse as to why he is not getting laid. I almost want to volunteer to take the poor kid to Tijuana and the Hong Kong Club and see what happens when he get laid.

Of course, my Colombian gal and her daughter played the game and loved it. Thing is they know their fellow classmates and their parents, and that is why they are not terrified of a school shooting.

But I did not want to know the parents in my kid's school, and I did not want to in hopes of avoiding judgement. I think wanting to play with toy guns and fuck hot women is normal and did not want to debate the subject. So yeah, it is better to stay quiet and have your fun secretly and / or in another country for your sake and theirs because so many people cannot handle the truth: it is normal to want a great sex life.

I LOVE talking about my exploits. Like everyone there are tiers of people in my life, parents, other family, friends, acquaintances, etc. I play poker with a group of guys that I only know through a friend. I'm the youngest guy at the table by 14 yrs or so. None of these people knows anybody else in my life except for my friend who introduced me to them. I can't wait to tell them what I'm up to when we play. Some of them think I'm full of shit and frankly that's most of the fun. Let them think what they want. The point is I'm happy, they all wish they could do what I'm doing and either don't want to admit it, are afraid to, or are no longer able to!

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2872629]I think you might also have a different reason for not talking. Thing about shame is I kind of came out and told a lot of people about my mongering life. It was weird. Once I felt no shame in doing so, it was like people want others to be happy and if you are happy, then they are happy with one exception.

It is like if you are fucking hot women, guys have to make up an excuse as to why they are not. I was loyal to my wife. I am a Christian. Blah, blah, blah. I was like, "These women were hookers, and this really is not a competition. ".

Thing is I met a great woman off seeking and am committed to her and people see us and how happy they are and now I am like having to explain that finding a woman like my current one was 20 years in the making. The flip side to that was finding one woman to commit to was harder than having a harem of sugar babes, and I was almost as happy with that. It is just that people did not get to see my happiness with the harem.

So now people want what I have and I am like, "Who the fuck doesn't? But that is really hard. Finding one women to meet all your sexual needs is tough and having a quality harem is a lot more doable. I never got really hurt breaking it off with a SB. It got you the sex and companionship with a lot less drama.[/QUOTE]

That was a very good read. Well written too.

Let me suggest another reason for silence.

Selfishness. I want it all. A happy enough wife. A stable home. Kids that like me.

And oh yeah. I want to get laid by girls less than half my age on the regular.

Just my own selfishness.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2872629]I think you might also have a different reason for not talking. Thing about shame is I kind of came out and told a lot of people about my mongering life. It was weird. Once I felt no shame in doing so, it was like people want others to be happy and if you are happy, then they are happy with one exception.

It is like if you are fucking hot women, guys have to make up an excuse as to why they are not. I was loyal to my wife. I am a Christian. Blah, blah, blah. I was like, "These women were hookers, and this really is not a competition. ".

Thing is I met a great woman off seeking and am committed to her and people see us and how happy they are and now I am like having to explain that finding a woman like my current one was 20 years in the making. The flip side to that was finding one woman to commit to was harder than having a harem of sugar babes, and I was almost as happy with that. It is just that people did not get to see my happiness with the harem.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2872629]So yeah, it is better to stay quiet and have your fun secretly and / or in another country for your sake and theirs because so many people cannot handle the truth.[/QUOTE]I've been on some other sex sites over the years that aren't mongering sites. There are times when I have related accounts of some of my sexual exploits abroad, and there's always some ignorant guy who thinks I'm lying (and probably several more silent doubters too). It's always about stuff that nobody on a site like this with even just a little experience would question because the same or similar has happened to them, or they know of somebody who it happened to, or they're confident they could do the same if they wanted to, etc. My retort when it's all said and done? Do you want it to happen to you? Then the first thing you have to do? [B]Believe[/B]!

But a part of the fun for me when I'm doubted is letting them believe what they want to because I know the "dirty truth", and I know I've had the kind of sexual adventures that most men can only dream about. I remember being on one site and a guy talking about how he'd had anal sex 5 times in his middle-aged life and going on and on about it like that was a "lot" and how anal is such a "rare" treat in life. I was sitting there looking at the screen and shaking my head and literally laughing out loud! Guys like that leave me quite certain that I've fucked more attractive women in the ass than most men will get even pussy. And I'm taking about over the course of their [B]entire[/B] lifetimes!

Men. Set yourself free. Save some money. Get a passport. Do some research. Travel abroad. Fuck [B]hot[/B] girls in their butt holes (a truly really, really, really, really lot of them so many you don't know how many anymore)! And where ever else you want to fuck them. All of you here? You know! You know. The best kept secret is one known only to one (and to your anonymous monger brethren). Over and out!

Seems like the general wisdom is tell no one. And I went that way for a while. But it's a bit lonely and I hate lying to my friends if I don't have to. Seems to me like most guys are not at all going to spill the beans. Envious maybe but not going to fuck you over. I used to think what if a guy sees me in FKK like my bosses boss or something. Well duh he is there too so nuclear weapons on both sides. And I used to be more paranoid about being seen with a girl by a colleague. Female colleagues are def a concern so I remain discrete. But I think most male colleagues would be like go for it man!

Over the years I have carefully disclosed to select individuals. So far only one has been judgey and doesn't want to hear about it. Others are anxious to hear my latest adventures. Like seriously asking me to tell them all th latest details. Here's who knows and we either can party together or they are at least enthusiastic to hear and read my adventures.

Friends/colleagues who know and disapprove. 1.

Friends/colleagues who know but dont partake and want to hear every detail. 2.

Friends/Colleagues who are also in the girls club for 5+ years. 2.

Friends/Colleagues who are in the girls club for less than 5 years. 2.

You may be very surprised how many of your friends or colleagues are in the club. I was stunned. And it is sooooo much more fun when they are inside the tent. Imo.

I see this forum is very active, but for me Seeking is one of the worst experiences I've ever had in this industry. The subscription fee for a month is about the same price as a P411 subscription for a year. Plus I found most of the girls to be extremely obnoxious, and demanding money before even communicating. Maybe I was doing things wrong.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2872716]I LOVE talking about my exploits. Like everyone there are tiers of people in my life, parents, other family, friends, acquaintances, etc. I play poker with a group of guys that I only know through a friend. I'm the youngest guy at the table by 14 yrs or so. None of these people knows anybody else in my life except for my friend who introduced me to them. I can't wait to tell them what I'm up to when we play. Some of them think I'm full of shit and frankly that's most of the fun. Let them think what they want. The point is I'm happy, they all wish they could do what I'm doing and either don't want to admit it, are afraid to, or are no longer able to![/QUOTE]I think you are being too paranoid. We all post here anonymously, no real names given. You can always change the dates a little bit, or don't specify the dates at all. It would be pretty much impossible for your family or acquaintances to connect the dots and figure out it was you. There will be no direct evidence pointing at you. Also, chances are they are not even on ISG or never heard of it. I'm not encouraging you to post anything at all if you are too concerned. But posting at a later date doesn't make much sense.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2872923]But posting at a later date doesn't make much sense.[/QUOTE]I've done that a lot over the years actually. You just never know who's reading. You can't be too careful if you ask me. People do dumb things and will drag you down into their shit just by association. So, I'm not quick to befriend anybody who I meet from mongerdom either. I had a wing man one time and the guy turned out to be a drunk and an overall disaster. Never again! I haven't trusted anybody from my "regular" life with this, and again I'm not going to be changing that in the foreseeable future.

To quote Han Solo, "Women always find out the truth, always. " I'll leave it there.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2872923]I think you are being too paranoid. We all post here anonymously, no real names given. You can always change the dates a little bit, or don't specify the dates at all. It would be pretty much impossible for your family or acquaintances to connect the dots and figure out it was you. There will be no direct evidence pointing at you. Also, chances are they are not even on ISG or never heard of it. I'm not encouraging you to post anything at all if you are too concerned. But posting at a later date doesn't make much sense.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2872909]I see this forum is very active, but for me Seeking is one of the worst experiences I've ever had in this industry. The subscription fee for a month is about the same price as a P411 subscription for a year. Plus I found most of the girls to be extremely obnoxious, and demanding money before even communicating. Maybe I was doing things wrong.[/QUOTE]P411 and Seeking are just two completely different experiences with different types of girls and different expectations. For those not familiar, P411 is a registration service for pros and John's. They verify your ID and employment and then you have access to browse hookers in any city. They claim to not retain your personal information but who knows. I used it successfully for a few years in the US before finding Seeking. But it's 100% pros and hourly rates.

Seeking is NOT a hooker registration service. It's more like online date matching service but with money exchanged. In other words, you can't just point and click and pay (at least in US where I assume you are from). I consider it like an online pickup bar. You have to play the game and have some game to have success. The best girls imo are not full on pros and won't just go with anyone for $$ (Tho there are plenty of pros also). It's a dance and you have to play it that way.

Unfortunately it is also prone to scamming. Any girl that asks for money before a meetup or to meetup platonically should be ignored / blocked. And be prepared if you get into a conversation and land a girl to treat it more like a date. Yes some girls will just go to the room and fuck. But the fun part for me is treating it like a true date with dinner or drinks and natural progression to the room. (And yes, they can decline to go to the room with you but you are only out your time and dinner; never pay them anything for this sex fail). At first you might have a moderate fail percentage but you will get better and better.

Of course the upside to Seeking is not only the real world experience but also it is NOT hourly. A typical date might be 3-4 hours and $500 USD if you do the homework and find the right girl. I've also had girls stay overnight for that same amount or less - it's up to them - very non hooker like.

So they are two very different things. P411 enables safe booking of a hooker in the USA which is no small feat. Seeking enables hooking up with a non or semi pro on a "real life date scenario" with a flat fee on the backend of the date if it ends with sex. Make sense?

No one. Not even my best friend knows about my secret life.

I am not worried about them knowing and judging me. They can do what they want. And I can do what I want.

But yes, I have a loving wife and do not want to mess that up. So, secrets die with me and my ISG brethren here.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2871879]Even my closest friends don't get the scoop.

As Benjamin Franklin said, two people can keep it secret as long as one of them is dead.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2873131]P411 and Seeking are just two completely different experiences with different types of girls and different expectations. For those not familiar, P411 is a registration service for pros and John's. They verify your ID and employment and then you have access to browse hookers in any city. They claim to not retain your personal information but who knows. I used it successfully for a few years in the US before finding Seeking. But it's 100% pros and hourly rates.

Seeking is NOT a hooker registration service. It's more like online date matching service but with money exchanged. In other words, you can't just point and click and pay (at least in US where I assume you are from). I consider it like an online pickup bar. You have to play the game and have some game to have success. The best girls imo are not full on pros and won't just go with anyone for $$ (Tho there are plenty of pros also). It's a dance and you have to play it that way.

Unfortunately it is also prone to scamming. Any girl that asks for money before a meetup or to meetup platonically should be ignored / blocked. And be prepared if you get into a conversation and land a girl to treat it more like a date. Yes some girls will just go to the room and fuck. But the fun part for me is treating it like a true date with dinner or drinks and natural progression to the room. (And yes, they can decline to go to the room with you but you are only out your time and dinner; never pay them anything for this sex fail). At first you might have a moderate fail percentage but you will get better and better.

Of course the upside to Seeking is not only the real world experience but also it is NOT hourly. A typical date might be 3-4 hours and $500 USD if you do the homework and find the right girl. I've also had girls stay overnight for that same amount or less - it's up to them - very non hooker like.

So they are two very different things. P411 enables safe booking of a hooker in the USA which is no small feat. Seeking enables hooking up with a non or semi pro on a "real life date scenario" with a flat fee on the backend of the date if it ends with sex. Make sense?[/QUOTE]It makes plenty of sense, but with my experience using Seeking, nearly all the girls I communicated with on there were some of the most arrogant cum dumpsters I have ever come across. I can't think of another setting where I've found more insolent idiots as that, anywhere from the office at work, to the cashier at the grocery store, I don't think I've ever seen a group of women as bad as I encountered from Seeking.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2873320]It makes plenty of sense, but with my experience using Seeking, nearly all the girls I communicated with on there were some of the most arrogant cum dumpsters I have ever come across. I can't think of another setting where I've found more insolent idiots as that, anywhere from the office at work, to the cashier at the grocery store, I don't think I've ever seen a group of women as bad as I encountered from Seeking.[/QUOTE]My experience is totally different. I am having the best time of my life. I am CDMX at this moment having a drink waiting for a beautiful woman. What could be better.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2873320]It makes plenty of sense, but with my experience using Seeking, nearly all the girls I communicated with on there were some of the most arrogant cum dumpsters I have ever come across. I can't think of another setting where I've found more insolent idiots as that, anywhere from the office at work, to the cashier at the grocery store, I don't think I've ever seen a group of women as bad as I encountered from Seeking.[/QUOTE]All true. But buried in this massive pile of bullshit are amazing gems who make it totally worth it. Like:

Alexa. Vegas. Amazing Italian black Filipina mix. Just a regular girl trying to get extra cash on the side, doing something she likes. Having great dinners and great sex. (Me too!) met up twice in Vegas. Hit it off. Flew her to Miami. Had an amazing time. Repeated a couple more times in Vegas. Gorgeous. Smart. Nice person. Truly feel thankful to have known her.

Kayla Miami. Gorgeous black girl. Spent many weekends with her. Top notch.

Megan. NYC. Amazing Viet / Korean mix student. Never done it before or since. Amazing one time date that was just exceptional because she was such a babe in the woods. Unbelievable that I could share this experience.

Sue London. Black Italian mix. Sharp as a tack legal student. And hot to boot. Great times in London and the Mediterranean.

Shayla Home girl USA. Been at it almost two years now. I pay her apt and she acts as my GF. Simple as that.

These are just a few of the amazing experiences I've had. And others here have experienced likewise.

So you are 100% right. It's 99.99% BS. And. 01% pure gold. Wouldn't trade it for anything.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2872950]. I had a wing man one time and the guy turned out to be a drunk and an overall disaster. .[/QUOTE]You for sure do not need a wingman.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2873336]My experience is totally different. I am having the best time of my life. I am CDMX at this moment having a drink waiting for a beautiful woman. What could be better.[/QUOTE]What about using it in the States? You're talking about in Mexico. I think the overwhelming majority view here is that it sucks big time in the States.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2873355]All true. But buried in this massive pile of bullshit are amazing gems who make it totally worth it. Like:

Alexa. Vegas. Amazing Italian black Filipina mix. Just a regular girl trying to get extra cash on the side, doing something she likes. Having great dinners and great sex. (Me too!) met up twice in Vegas. Hit it off. Flew her to Miami. Had an amazing time. Repeated a couple more times in Vegas. Gorgeous. Smart. Nice person. Truly feel thankful to have known her.

Kayla Miami. Gorgeous black girl. Spent many weekends with her. Top notch.

Megan. NYC. Amazing Viet / Korean mix student. Never done it before or since. Amazing one time date that was just exceptional because she was such a babe in the woods. Unbelievable that I could share this experience.

Sue London. Black Italian mix. Sharp as a tack legal student. And hot to boot. Great times in London and the Mediterranean.

Shayla Home girl USA. Been at it almost two years now. I pay her apt and she acts as my GF. Simple as that.

These are just a few of the amazing experiences I've had. And others here have experienced likewise.

So you are 100% right. It's 99.99% BS. And. 01% pure gold. Wouldn't trade it for anything.[/QUOTE]And what about the white girls? What if you like fucking white women? In any case, a 99.99% fail rate is totally unacceptable to me, as it typically would be with most anything in life. Not worth my time. I'd rather monger where it's all turned around with a 99.99% chance of success in getting what I want. When I want it.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2873457]What about using it in the States? You're talking about in Mexico. I think the overwhelming majority view here is that it sucks big time in the States.

And what about the white girls? What if you like fucking white women? In any case, a 99.99% fail rate is totally unacceptable to me, as it typically would be with most anything in life. Not worth my time. I'd rather monger where it's all turned around with a 99.99% chance of success in getting what I want. When I want it.[/QUOTE]Sure we all like the point and click of Thailand Germany and Brazil. But we don't live there.

So you are saying there is a much better alternative in the US? Please share.

And I guess I would say the GPS problems with entitled white girls is a US problem, not a Seeking problem. We have fucked our sex culture here in the US and Im not sure it can be fixed. Thank god white girls are not my thing. Tho I have an ISG friend who has been having quite some success on Seeking w the white girls recently. But he like me doesn’t mind or even enjoys sifting through the buffet of bullshit to find the one or two gems. If it’s not ur thing, that’s cool too.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2873355]All true. But buried in this massive pile of bullshit are amazing gems who make it totally worth it. Like:

Alexa. Vegas. Amazing Italian black Filipina mix. Just a regular girl trying to get extra cash on the side, doing something she likes. Having great dinners and great sex. (Me too!) met up twice in Vegas. Hit it off. Flew her to Miami. Had an amazing time. Repeated a couple more times in Vegas. Gorgeous. Smart. Nice person. Truly feel thankful to have known her.

Kayla Miami. Gorgeous black girl. Spent many weekends with her. Top notch.

Megan. NYC. Amazing Viet / Korean mix student. Never done it before or since. Amazing one time date that was just exceptional because she was such a babe in the woods. Unbelievable that I could share this experience.

Sue London. Black Italian mix. Sharp as a tack legal student. And hot to boot. Great times in London and the Mediterranean.

Shayla Home girl USA. Been at it almost two years now. I pay her apt and she acts as my GF. Simple as that.

These are just a few of the amazing experiences I've had. And others here have experienced likewise.

So you are 100% right. It's 99.99% BS. And. 01% pure gold. Wouldn't trade it for anything.[/QUOTE]I guess for me, I just can't justify paying hundreds of dollars a month to try and find the proverbial "need in a haystack. " I mean look at the subscription fee to this site, it's $25 a year. Even membership on *** is not over $100 a month. For me, paying that kind of money just to spend hours flipping through and having 2 minute conversations with morons, only hoping I'm going to find a gold mine, doesn't seem like a good value proposition By the way, everybody talks about finding girls on FB. How exactly does one search for chicas on there? What kind of criteria is typically used?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2873480]Sure we all like the point and click of Thailand Germany and Brazil. But we don't live there.

So you are saying there is a much better alternative in the US? Please share.

And I guess I would say the GPS problems with entitled white girls is a US problem, not a Seeking problem. We have fucked our sex culture here in the US and Im not sure it can be fixed. Thank god white girls are not my thing. Tho I have an ISG friend who has been having quite some success on Seeking w the white girls recently. But he like me doesnt mind or even enjoys sifting through the buffet of bullshit to find the one or two gems. If its not ur thing, thats cool too.[/QUOTE]Why is it that if VanessasClient says it sucks and points out why you respond "all true"? But if I say it you start coming across as kind of defensive? At least that's how it seems to me. You spend a lot of time talking about that 0. 01%. What about the other 99.99% (and all the fatties and the no shows you told me about)? If you spent more time talking about that, then people would get the full picture. That's what would be fair and square. Well, I guess there's me and whoever else to do that. I was on the site for just a short time and bared it all. The good, the bad, and the ugly. From the super high (1) to the super lows (so many most not even mentioned). And my real experience really proves what you yourself admit. That 99.99% of the time Seeking sucks!

If you're a betting man and / or somebody with a busy schedule, you pass as it's not worth your time (and money). Maybe we don't all live abroad (some of us do), but that's not a reason to then go and waste time and money on Seeking. As I always remind people, life is far more than either / or propositions. I don't need to live abroad to do my thing, and I don't have to accept dealing with Seeking either. I'm quite happy to take trips abroad, which hopefully will become more frequent with time. I realize that's an option that I have that other people don't. So maybe they feel like Seeking is their only or best choice, and that's fine. But, they need to know (and accept) the full truth about it. That 99.99% of the time it's going to suck, and decide whether they want to put up with the knee-deep bullshit or not. The truth. It can set you free.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2873498]I guess for me, I just can't justify paying hundreds of dollars a month to try and find the proverbial "needle in a haystack". For me, paying that kind of money just to spend hours flipping through and having 2 minute conversations with morons, only hoping I'm going to find a gold mine, doesn't seem like a good value proposition.[/QUOTE]Hitting a nail on the head! If there's somebody who feels it's worth it to throw money away like that, then hell they better stay away from the casinos LOL!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2873355]Shayla Home girl USA. Been at it almost two years now. I pay her apt and she acts as my GF. Simple as that..[/QUOTE]I have to say, this seems a little more tethered to reality. I think you're acknowledging she acts as your girlfriend in exchange for something of monetary value. There's no judgment in that. In fact I think it's better because you turn it off at any time by changing the transaction circumstances. But it is nice to see you aren't delusional after all my friend.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2873457]What about using it in the States? You're talking about in Mexico. I think the overwhelming majority view here is that it sucks big time in the States.

And what about the white girls? What if you like fucking white women? In any case, a 99.99% fail rate is totally unacceptable to me, as it typically would be with most anything in life. Not worth my time. I'd rather monger where it's all turned around with a 99.99% chance of success in getting what I want. When I want it.[/QUOTE]You are correct and I have always said that it is tough in America, but I have had reasonable success. My expectations are lower, in the states. I do not have much extra time now because of work so I, put my energy and resources towards Mexico.

Also, I have made a decision I do not want to be around drugs and that eliminates a large majority of girls on SA in the states. So sad what is happening to our girls.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2873498]I guess for me, I just can't justify paying hundreds of dollars a month to try and find the proverbial "need in a haystack. " I mean look at the subscription fee to this site, it's $25 a year. Even membership on *** is not over $100 a month. For me, paying that kind of money just to spend hours flipping through and having 2 minute conversations with morons, only hoping I'm going to find a gold mine, doesn't seem like a good value proposition By the way, everybody talks about finding girls on FB. How exactly does one search for chicas on there? What kind of criteria is typically used?[/QUOTE]Yeah to each his own. There is a group of us here that absolutely swear by it. DramaFree. BlueMoon. AmericanPi. Etc. And some like you it's not their cup of tea. Everyone's different. We will just enjoy our little slice of life here.

As far as Facebook I don't think you can find anything in the US. In Medellin however it's a primary hookup method. You just need to make friends with the right guy or two and all their friends are hookers and it's like a viral thing and suddenly you have 200 girls at the ready. Plus since it's not illegal it seems fine to discuss money on FB. It is as easy as easy as finding a girl and saying "200+taxi?" (Pesos of course) and go from there.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2872726]That was a very good read. Well written too.

Let me suggest another reason for silence.

Selfishness. I want it all. A happy enough wife. A stable home. Kids that like me.

And oh yeah. I want to get laid by girls less than half my age on the regular.

Just my own selfishness.[/QUOTE]I am not sure you are selfish. I was skeptical that I could have a happy sex life with one woman and I think my gal is by far the exception and not the rule. I did not think such a woman existed. In the past, I kept sugar babies because with women I was dating after three months, sex with them was not a priority. I got my needs met with SBs but not GFs. The GFs would put out pussy to attract me and when they thought they had me would pull it back. There is a comedy routine on this very subject in the show Coupling. There are only seven sets of stockings in the whole world and women only wear them when courting a man. But studies show desire does flame out in relationships with women faster than men.

I have recommended the David Buss book The Evolution of Desire many times in other forums because it goes into what men and women truly desire. It is not perfect. I think there are base minimums for men and women. For example, I do not value intelligence in women as much as other men but I am not going to deal with a stupid woman for long either.

What is relevant from the book is that the #1 thing women care about is provision of resources. Whether or not they admit it, women know that when they are pregnant or with a child, they are going to have to be reliant on a man and need a provider. So when guys mention looks is what women want, that is what they want when they are having fun and impressing their sorority sisters. It is different when they are serious and want a family.

The second thing I learned is that women do not truly care if men are out having sex with other women if it does not interfere with their base resource needs. There is a basis then to the notion of "Honey, she means nothing to me. ".

The third relevant thing from the book is that women looking for sugar daddies are looking for the exact same characteristics in them as they are their mates. There was an oft mentioned line from other guys, "Quit spending money on the women and see how long they stay". My counter would be, "And how long do you think I am going to stay if she quits fucking me?" For me, a woman fucking me and my providing for an in demand woman are givens; they are bare minimums.

Point is that sugar baby that you think is just interested in your money is often interested in you. Early on, I thought these hot sugar babies were out of my reach when in fact, almost all would have gotten serious with me if I indicated that I wanted that.

So to get what you want, here is what I have learned and suggest.

You get a prenup and like the divorce lawyer in the video Steve shared, you divvy assets, debt, and income in three ways: mine, hers, and ours. You make it 1000% certain to stipulate she gets her income and you get yours. With children, you consult your state laws and keep that in line with child support laws, and agreeing on no alimony is a no-brainer. You also agree to be divorced in a place where prenups are strictly enforced, I. E. Not California.

Now chances are you are going to be donating a lot from your pot to the ours pot. That is fine, but do not give her a credit card where it makes it seem like everything is free. Make her ask. By making her ask, it puts the question in her head, "And what if he says no?" It also holds her accountable for not over spending. She will spend a lot less if she has to ask. The same rule applies to the kids.

Men have been gutted by government in the sense that without a prenup, women and kids are told that government will beat dad up for money if he doesn't take care of you. I think if mom knows she is going to be in much worse shape financially and the kids know that too, the kids will like you. Again, some rebellion is to be expected but I think the reason so many kids rebel is that agencies like CPS and their mothers tell them that they can do so with little or no consequences. This is where feminism and the we don't need no men attitude has totally failed. When you alienate fathers, the children are worse off by every metric.

If you are going to do the benefit to society of having children, and it is a societal benefit, than you deserve a good sex life. The only question is how do you thread that needle. On this front, I did it all wrong in my first marriage because I told people in my sphere about my mongering side when married. I was filled with shame and wanted understanding, sympathy ETC. When you are doing that, you are hurting her social market value score, and it is very important that you do not do that to your wife if you are to stay married.

With any woman, if she has a man who is cheating and others knows it and she stays with him, her social score takes a hit. It actually will go up if she leaves you. So you have to preserve that score out of consideration for her, and that means you tell no one about your mongering who even has the remotest possibility of running into her. You keep a burner phone preferably in someone else's name with an email totally unlinked to you and only access your email account when using that phone. Obviously, you keep the phone locked and have it show no messages. And you do what you need to do to prevent your wife getting STDs. Again, if you cheat, make sure you do all you can to preserve her social market score.

If you have an even remotely intelligent woman, she is going to know or be suspicious. If she brings it up, you mention divorce right off the bat. Do not even for a second register shame. You let her know that if she goes down that path, it means divorce.

I had a woman who knew I was married giving me head telling me about how awful it was her BF cheated on her. She did not get the irony. I had a sugar baby claim she was going to "cut her BF's dick off" if she found out he was cheating on her. You should have seen her stammer out the lamest of excuses when I said, "But you just fucked me". It just shows you how devoid of responsibility women are in the USA.

The point is AP that what you want and think is selfish is anything but. Having a wife you support is selfless. Having children is selfless and benefits society. Why the fuck is it normal that you are not allowed to be happy when you are giving so much? Men wanting a good sex life does not mean we are pigs. The most messed up part in my whole journey was I had to go to fucking Colombia to find a woman who understood the importance of having a good sex life.

IMO many if not most of societal ills today are society demonizing men's sexual desires versus understanding them. No one today suggests that it could possibly be women's fault that men stray. Just remember that SB saying "I will cut my BFs dick off" right after fucking me if you ever feel any guilt over wanting to have a good sex life.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2873498]I guess for me, I just can't justify paying hundreds of dollars a month to try and find the proverbial "need in a haystack. " I mean look at the subscription fee to this site, it's $25 a year. Even membership on *** is not over $100 a month. For me, paying that kind of money just to spend hours flipping through and having 2 minute conversations with morons, only hoping I'm going to find a gold mine, doesn't seem like a good value proposition By the way, everybody talks about finding girls on FB. How exactly does one search for chicas on there? What kind of criteria is typically used?[/QUOTE]If your attitude is that is the amount you have to pay to get laid, I see your point.

On the other hand, it was well worth it for so many of the sugar babies I had. My first SB was so beautiful her friends compared her to a model. We saw each other every 2 weeks, and she was top three in my life with BJs. I paid her $400 when I saw her, and we would typically have sex twice and spend hours talking. She was giving me lessons on what it was like to be a hot girl.

Some things I learned were just from being around her. I learned how penniless most hot women are. On the other, it was what she said. She said she would never be a stripper because it changes women, and I agree with her. This was also something Freddie the brothel owner said too. If you stay in the hooker or stripper business longer than a year, you are changed for life. It changes women to only look at men as marks and not as people.

Around this time, the book the Game was written and the author recommended negging, giving compliments that make a women feel badly like, "That is last year's style, but it looks good on you. " I learned the reason women are ahead of men is they get to see so much more. Anyone who negged this SB was going to get blown out of the water because she had seen it so much. Because women have so many more offers than men, they know the game so much better than we do. I learned that the in demand women have seen all the standard approaches so you had better come up with your own to win them over as I did.

And yeah, there was a huge bump in social status and envy when my friends saw her with me. This was a girl that when we were walking down the street that guys would stop and ask to have a pic with her. I was envious of a different guy whose wife got that kind of attention before and now guys were asking to do it with my girl. And she made sure to let everyone know she was with me.

She was hanging onto me even after she met the right guy. It was at that point I felt like she was a sister or daughter, and my sex drive with her went way down. I eventually broke it off with her for her own good, and she ended up marrying the guy.

This SB was a key influence in my life, and I probably would not be where I am now had I not met her. Our relationship lasted four years, and there is no way I would have met her without seeking. Even now, I have so many female friends from seeking that I could call and chat with, and you just do not get that with hookers.

That was a really good read. Thank you for writing it.

I agree with a lot of it. But I also know I made a commitment to be faithful and I break that commitment every time I hop in bed with some hot young thing.

Don't get me wrong. I have no plans to stop. In fact I have a trip to Mexico in two weeks and I already have 3 girls lined up. One for the third time because she lets me drop anal even tho she doesn't like it, and she's hot as hell. The others are too. There's no way I'm giving that up. I will just live with a little guilt. It's worth it and then some.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2873562]I am not sure you are selfish. I was skeptical that I could have a happy sex life with one woman and I think my gal is by far the exception and not the rule. I did not think such a woman existed. In the past, I kept sugar babies because with women I was dating after three months, sex with them was not a priority. I got my needs met with SBs but not GFs. The GFs would put out pussy to attract me and when they thought they had me would pull it back. There is a comedy routine on this very subject in the show Coupling. There are only seven sets of stockings in the whole world and women only wear them when courting a man. But studies show desire does flame out in relationships with women faster than men.

I have recommended the David Buss book The Evolution of Desire many times in other forums because it goes into what men and women truly desire. It is not perfect. I think there are base minimums for men and women. For example, I do not value intelligence in women as much as other men but I am not going to deal with a stupid woman for long either.

What is relevant from the book is that the #1 thing women care about is provision of resources. Whether or not they admit it, women know that when they are pregnant or with a child, they are going to have to be reliant on a man and need a provider. So when guys mention looks is what women want, that is what they want when they are having fun and impressing their sorority sisters. It is different when they are serious and want a family.

The second thing I learned is that women do not truly care if men are out having sex with other women if it does not interfere with their base resource needs. There is a basis then to the notion of "Honey, she means nothing to me. ".

The third relevant thing from the book is that women looking for sugar daddies are looking for the exact same characteristics in them as they are their mates. There was an oft mentioned line from other guys, "Quit spending money on the women and see how long they stay". My counter would be, "And how long do you think I am going to stay if she quits fucking me?" For me, a woman fucking me and my providing for an in demand woman are givens; they are bare minimums.

Point is that sugar baby that you think is just interested in your money is often interested in you. Early on, I thought these hot sugar babies were out of my reach when in fact, almost all would have gotten serious with me if I indicated that I wanted that.

So to get what you want, here is what I have learned and suggest.

You get a prenup and like the divorce lawyer in the video Steve shared, you divvy assets, debt, and income in three ways: mine, hers, and ours. You make it 1000% certain to stipulate she gets her income and you get yours. With children, you consult your state laws and keep that in line with child support laws, and agreeing on no alimony is a no-brainer. You also agree to be divorced in a place where prenups are strictly enforced, I. E. Not California.

Now chances are you are going to be donating a lot from your pot to the ours pot. That is fine, but do not give her a credit card where it makes it seem like everything is free. Make her ask. By making her ask, it puts the question in her head, "And what if he says no?" It also holds her accountable for not over spending. She will spend a lot less if she has to ask. The same rule applies to the kids.

Men have been gutted by government in the sense that without a prenup, women and kids are told that government will beat dad up for money if he doesn't take care of you. I think if mom knows she is going to be in much worse shape financially and the kids know that too, the kids will like you. Again, some rebellion is to be expected but I think the reason so many kids rebel is that agencies like CPS and their mothers tell them that they can do so with little or no consequences. This is where feminism and the we don't need no men attitude has totally failed. When you alienate fathers, the children are worse off by every metric.

If you are going to do the benefit to society of having children, and it is a societal benefit, than you deserve a good sex life. The only question is how do you thread that needle. On this front, I did it all wrong in my first marriage because I told people in my sphere about my mongering side when married. I was filled with shame and wanted understanding, sympathy ETC. When you are doing that, you are hurting her social market value score, and it is very important that you do not do that to your wife if you are to stay married.

With any woman, if she has a man who is cheating and others knows it and she stays with him, her social score takes a hit. It actually will go up if she leaves you. So you have to preserve that score out of consideration for her, and that means you tell no one about your mongering who even has the remotest possibility of running into her. You keep a burner phone preferably in someone else's name with an email totally unlinked to you and only access your email account when using that phone. Obviously, you keep the phone locked and have it show no messages. And you do what you need to do to prevent your wife getting STDs. Again, if you cheat, make sure you do all you can to preserve her social market score.

If you have an even remotely intelligent woman, she is going to know or be suspicious. If she brings it up, you mention divorce right off the bat. Do not even for a second register shame. You let her know that if she goes down that path, it means divorce.

I had a woman who knew I was married giving me head telling me about how awful it was her BF cheated on her. She did not get the irony. I had a sugar baby claim she was going to "cut her BF's dick off" if she found out he was cheating on her. You should have seen her stammer out the lamest of excuses when I said, "But you just fucked me". It just shows you how devoid of responsibility women are in the USA.

The point is AP that what you want and think is selfish is anything but. Having a wife you support is selfless. Having children is selfless and benefits society. Why the fuck is it normal that you are not allowed to be happy when you are giving so much? Men wanting a good sex life does not mean we are pigs. The most messed up part in my whole journey was I had to go to fucking Colombia to find a woman who understood the importance of having a good sex life.

IMO many if not most of societal ills today are society demonizing men's sexual desires versus understanding them. No one today suggests that it could possibly be women's fault that men stray. Just remember that SB saying "I will cut my BFs dick off" right after fucking me if you ever feel any guilt over wanting to have a good sex life.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TheCane;2873504]Why is it that if VanessasClient says it sucks and points out why you respond "all true"? But if I say it you start coming across as kind of defensive? At least that's how it seems to me. You spend a lot of time talking about that 0. 01%. What about the other 99.99% (and all the fatties and the no shows you told me about)? If you spent more time talking about that, then people would get the full picture. That's what would be fair and square. Well, I guess there's me and whoever else to do that. I was on the site for just a short time and bared it all. The good, the bad, and the ugly. From the super high (1) to the super lows (so many most not even mentioned). And my real experience really proves what you yourself admit. That 99.99% of the time Seeking sucks!

If you're a betting man and / or somebody with a busy schedule, you pass as it's not worth your time (and money). Maybe we don't all live abroad (some of us do), but that's not a reason to then go and waste time and money on Seeking. As I always remind people, life is far more than either / or propositions. I don't need to live abroad to do my thing, and I don't have to accept dealing with Seeking either. I'm quite happy to take trips abroad, which hopefully will become more frequent with time. I realize that's an option that I have that other people don't. So maybe they feel like Seeking is their only or best choice, and that's fine. But, they need to know (and accept) the full truth about it. That 99.99% of the time it's going to suck, and decide whether they want to put up with the knee-deep bullshit or not. The truth. It can set you free.[/QUOTE]I disagree with your and Steve's 99.99% statistics. Sure, there are hardcore pros, druggies, thieves, scams, uglies, etc but it is your responsibility to weed them out. Once you learn how to do that, life becomes much easier. If I manage to weed out 95% of the girls and only get to meet the remaining 5%, guess what my success rate is? Probably 70%-80%. Meaning 7 or 8 girls out of every 10 that I get to meet are good enough to repeat with. Decent chemistry, GFE and all the bells and whistles. 2-3 girls out of 10 would be meh, but nothing horrible (maybe just a lack of chemistry, or sex didn't happen due to various reasons, period, didn't feel well, got drunk, etc.) Weeding them out takes some time and patience, but it is a must thing to do. And as you gain experience, you will become much more efficient at it. Chat, FaceTime if need be, ask questions, ask social media accounts, photos, look for red flags and listen to your gut. Also, find out in what cities or countries Seeking works best and use it there. We all know Seeking sucks in the States, along with Tinder, so why even bother?

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2873498]I guess for me, I just can't justify paying hundreds of dollars a month to try and find the proverbial "need in a haystack. " I mean look at the subscription fee to this site, it's $25 a year. Even membership on *** is not over $100 a month. For me, paying that kind of money just to spend hours flipping through and having 2 minute conversations with morons, only hoping I'm going to find a gold mine, doesn't seem like a good value proposition By the way, everybody talks about finding girls on FB. How exactly does one search for chicas on there? What kind of criteria is typically used?[/QUOTE]Seeking doesn't cost "hundreds of dollars a month" unless you opt for platinum or whatever it is called membership. Premium membership is all you need. It is about 100 usd a month, but they always send me discounts and coupons. Last time when I renewed I paid $68. Also, there is no need to renew every month. Renew as you need it, collect phone numbers and over time you will have a decent contact list. Heck, most dating apps cost like 25-30 usd a month. Paying extra 40-50 bucks is not a big deal to me and won't break my bank. If it is a big deal for you, stick to cheaper options.

I can't speak to seeking in the US as I don't use it for that purpose. But as someone that travels outside the bus and most regularly to Latin America I find Seeking incredible useful and not nearly as 99/1 as suggested.

I am in a beach town in El Salvador where there is no P4 P. I just sent the girl I sourced from Seeking home. She spent two nights with me. She was 23 and a pure spinner. Slimmest girl I have ever done. Counting Uber rides, extra dinner expenses agreed upon rate, tip etc I was in just over $300. We had excellent sex 4 times. She spoke no English and I got to practice my Spanish. She was pleasant and respectful of my work. Totally would be happy to repeat as we both thoroughly enjoyed ourselves and she wasn't just watching a clock. I was her second seeking date ever and I believe her. This in a country where $40 gets youna standard 45 minutes with a likely ok casa chic.

Thanks to seeking I have 5 solid prospects to replace my awesome seeking girl in Nicaragua (straight 9 that ended up moving to Switzerland) including what looks like a true 3 some with two bisexual girls who are totally jazzed at meeting and myself. The Nicaraguan I met through Wanucios and the Kiwi through seeking. She is coming up from Costa Rica to spend a couple of days doing fun things together and hopefully all hook up with Stacy. And there is one potential absolute 10 as well as the professional dancer / student.

Yeah there is sitting and chatting but for me well worth it.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2873652]I disagree with your and Steve's 99.99% statistics. Sure, there are hardcore pros, druggies, thieves, scams, uglies, etc but it is your responsibility to weed them out. Once you learn how to do that, life becomes much easier. If I manage to weed out 95% of the girls and only get to meet the remaining 5%, guess what my success rate is? Probably 70%-80%. Meaning 7 or 8 girls out of every 10 that I get to meet are good enough to repeat with. Decent chemistry, GFE and all the bells and whistles. 2-3 girls out of 10 would be meh, but nothing horrible (maybe just a lack of chemistry, or sex didn't happen due to various reasons, period, didn't feel well, got drunk, etc.) Weeding them out takes some time and patience, but it is a must thing to do. And as you gain experience, you will become much more efficient at it. Chat, FaceTime if need be, ask questions, ask social media accounts, photos, look for red flags and listen to your gut. Also, find out in what cities or countries Seeking works best and use it there. We all know Seeking sucks in the States, along with Tinder, so why even bother?[/QUOTE]So tell us more then. Or, do you consider your methods to be "trade secrets"? What specific questions do you ask? What do you do with their social media if you gain access to it? What have you found to be red flags? You get "that feeling" in your gut from what? In any event, your last sentence backs up everything I've said. You essentially said that using Seeking in the States is so useless why even bother with it! That sounds like a 99.9% failure rate to me bro. RonhinCruz chimed in to challenge that level of failure too, but importantly he also said he doesn't use Seeking in the States, [B]and the only place I’m talking about is the States because that’s the only place I’ve used it[/B]. So neither one of you added a thing to take away from my position based on my real world experience. In fact, you just strengthened it by agreeing that Seeking is worthless in the States, the only country I've been talking about. That said, I'm interested in hearing more about your screening tactics should you want to share in the event I find myself in another country and in the mood to try Seeking there (not likely when I can go to Scandallo or Oase LOL).

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2873654]Seeking doesn't cost "hundreds of dollars a month" unless you opt for platinum or whatever it is called membership. Premium membership is all you need. It is about 100 usd a month, but they always send me discounts and coupons. Last time when I renewed I paid $68. Also, there is no need to renew every month. Renew as you need it, collect phone numbers and over time you will have a decent contact list. Heck, most dating apps cost like 25-30 usd a month. Paying extra 40-50 bucks is not a big deal to me and won't break my bank. If it is a big deal for you, stick to cheaper options.[/QUOTE]Right now $96.99 a month is the lowest they go with a 3 month commitment. But again, you can buy a P411 subscription for $180 a year, which breaks down to $15 a month. Plus the criminal background check badge only last 6 months, then you have to pay to have your background check processed again. Maybe I should try using the damn service outside of the USA, and I'll have more luck.

I think the disconnect here is the results, compared to the method of finding. I met my "improvised novia" in Europe on an appointment that almost didn't happen. Found her on Euro Girls Escort, free to clients. Saw her for 2 dates there, lasting 1 hour each. I asked her for her personal phone number and real name, which she was willing to provide. I kept in touch with her after I left Europe, and she went back to South America shortly after. Less than 6 months later she's offering to travel to another country with me for nothing other than a "tip" as long as I paid for all of her accommodations. But a tip of an unspecified amount. Since the tip was at my discretion, I couldn't possibly say not to her, because if I was a rude bastard, I could literally have given her a single penny, which technically is a denomination of money, albeit the lowest one. Thankfully I'm not an inconsiderate scoundrel, so she didn't get just a penny. But what I didn't experience was some pathetic gringo rodent who wanted $5,000 a night on top of paying for accommodations.

The point is, that didn't require me signing up for a site that is $100 a month and spending days or weeks trying to find someone like that. Maybe I just got lucky. If I was convinced I was going to find girls like her by getting on Seeking, then yes I'd be back on there. What I have found from interacting with her over time, is that building a connection like this takes a certain amount of trust, and more to the point, the willingness to take risks. Ever since I met her there were multiple points in time where things could have gone very wrong, and even one occasion where they did, though I was able to remedy it. If I had met her online via Seeking, and even video chatted with her, I doubt that would have the same effect as spending a mere 2 hours with her in person. Unusual circumstances I guess you could say.

And the only reason I'm here and browsing around is because she's stuck back in Europe again, and taking a 9+ hour one way flight for me is not an option every weekend, or even every month. There's another 9 goddamn hours back to the USA along with all the hassle of transatlantic flying. On the other hand, Central America is close enough that I could visit once a month. I just need something to tide me over until I can see her again. The last time I saw her was in July when I went to EU. If she were accessible to me on a regular basis, all of this would likely be a non issue Have you tried going more than 4 months without sex? Jaja. I'm not at all inclined to touch the filthy pigs in this area, as it's kind of insulting compared to what I can get overseas. Such is life *sigh*.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2873710]Right now $96.99 a month is the lowest they go with a 3 month commitment. But again, you can buy a P411 subscription for $180 a year, which breaks down to $15 a month. Plus the criminal background check badge only last 6 months, then you have to pay to have your background check processed again. Maybe I should try using the damn service outside of the USA, and I'll have more luck.
.[/QUOTE]Honestly man Seeking just isn't your jam. And that's ok. You have another jam.

It's not the budget option, straight up. If you're not spending upwards of 5000 a year on this, and probably much more, you're probably not having the experience as it's intended. There are budget girls in the Seeking game but they're really just escorts in the site. In the US, dinner hotel and a gift will set you back 600-800 dollars per instance. Once you know a girl you can maybe skip the dinner. Or maybe she comes to your place. Or maybe your company pays your hotel. Everyone's situation is different. But one thing is for sure. If you're looking for pussy value, this just isn't the place for it.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2873786]Honestly man Seeking just isn't your jam. And that's ok. You have another jam.

It's not the budget option, straight up. If you're not spending upwards of 5000 a year on this, and probably much more, you're probably not having the experience as it's intended. There are budget girls in the Seeking game but they're really just escorts in the site. In the US, dinner hotel and a gift will set you back 600-800 dollars per instance. Once you know a girl you can maybe skip the dinner. Or maybe she comes to your place. Or maybe your company pays your hotel. Everyone's situation is different. But one thing is for sure. If you're looking for pussy value, this just isn't the place for it.[/QUOTE]That's the page I'm on. Works amazing for me and a few other guys I know (even in the US) but to be clear I ENJOY the process. I enjoy browsing girls. I enjoy chatting nightly with a shortlist of hotties. I enjoy the date as well as the sex. So the whole thing works for me. But may not for you. And yeah $100/ mo is a tiny fraction of my girls budget. I'm no fool like when I am not traveling I let it lapse. But when I am traveling it's just a cost of doing of business and I don't even think about it.

Just to set the record straight on the 99.99% is bullshit that was clearly a bit of hyperbole. We've talked about our success rates before but mine goes something like this when traveling to a big city.

Browse daily for several weeks. Prob see over 100 girls in the list and end up contacting 10.

Of that 10 get into serious chat with 3-5.

Of that 3-5 I usually settle on 2 that I plan to see and work a deal with.

Schedule fave for night 1 and second for night 2. Repeat with fave of the two remainder of week.

So yeah def not 99.99% when I lay it out. Looks like about 10% of girls are worth talking to initially and that drops to 5% worth getting serious with. And 95% awesome in person after I choose and seal the deal.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2873829]To be clear I ENJOY the process. So yeah def not 99.99% when I lay it out. Looks like about 10% of girls are worth talking to initially and that drops to 5% worth getting serious with.[/QUOTE]OK, so let's make it a 95% fail rate then (again I'm [B]only[/B] talking about in the States because that's what I know). For me and plenty of other guys that's still way, way, way too high. You do indeed have to enjoy the process to be willing to put up with that. As is oft said, to each his own.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2873829]That's the page I'm on. Works amazing for me and a few other guys I know (even in the US) but to be clear I ENJOY the process. I enjoy browsing girls. I enjoy chatting nightly with a shortlist of hotties. I enjoy the date as well as the sex. So the whole thing works for me. But may not for you. And yeah $100/ mo is a tiny fraction of my girls budget. I'm no fool like when I am not traveling I let it lapse. But when I am traveling it's just a cost of doing of business and I don't even think about it.[/QUOTE]Well, I guess just from my way of thinking, if you are willing to drop that much money, why bother looking overseas? There's plenty of beautiful talent in the USA for $1,000+ an hour. That to me just screams rip off when I can find women just a pretty for less than 150 euros an hour, along with the hassle of flights, hotels, and all the other time consuming activities associated with long distance travel. I'm on this forum because it's ISG. If I were interested in still pursuing the USA, I wouldn't be here. In any case, I suppose I'll give Seeking another shot the next time I'm out of the country, assuming my other girl isn't accessible to me at the time.

So I guess there is all this Seeking sucks and no it doesn't debate of late. And at the risk of being labeled a fanboy I will say another reason it's awesome. Because once you hook a seeking girl your can repeat repeat repeat. Even at long intervals. I still see Alexa when I am in town and we met in 2019. And she is still hot AF.

Case in point. Last couple days been in contact with my regular home girl from 2020 2021. Lots going on in her life (their lives are sooo interesting compared to our upper middle class suburban lives!) and she's at a point where we lightly reconnect. Then suddenly she asks if I want to meet for a drink tonight and it's on. Just a get reacquainted drink but sooooo much fun. And a sex date for Sunday. Nice!

Yeah. A fan. But maybe that's just me.

I really think the past day or two on this thread are apples and oranges discussions. If you want a sure thing, get an escort, if you want something in the gray area and enjoy (steve)/ put up with (me) the hunt and associated awards that are well documented, then use seeking.

Someone has said this before, but it's absolutely true. Once a girl bangs you she'll always bang you. Unless you piss her off or give her some reason not to. I don't consider myself to have a "stable" but there are girls that I've seen a few times and things just kind of ended on their own or never really took off with no official "break" but I could call any one of them tomorrow and I know they'd meet me for dinner with implied sex afterward of they weren't seeing someone and half of them would see me if even if they were seeing someone.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2873912]So I guess there is all this Seeking sucks and no it doesn't debate of late. And at the risk of being labeled a fanboy I will say another reason it's awesome. Because once you hook a seeking girl your can repeat repeat repeat. Even at long intervals. I still see Alexa when I am in town and we met in 2019. And she is still hot AF.

Case in point. Last couple days been in contact with my regular home girl from 2020 2021. Lots going on in her life (their lives are sooo interesting compared to our upper middle class suburban lives!) and she's at a point where we lightly reconnect. Then suddenly she asks if I want to meet for a drink tonight and it's on. Just a get reacquainted drink but sooooo much fun. And a sex date for Sunday. Nice!

Yeah. A fan. But maybe that's just me.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2873869]There's plenty of beautiful talent in the USA for $1,000+ an hour.[/QUOTE]But the minute the hour is over (or even sooner) they are out the door. Following Dramafree's advice, during the pandemic, I had five to ten women in Monterrey, Mexico, which is an hour flight from my house at my beck and call, I met through seeking. I know it is more now but I was getting ridiculous talent at the $100 to $200 level, and my hotel room was $50. The best of these women were easily worth a $1000 because I could spend all day fucking them.

It sucks that the peso has gone down versus the dollar because Mexico is easier than ever. Cancun and Mexico City have facial recognition stations and customs, which used to be an hours long chore, is now done in less than 15 minutes. With Global Entry, I am through USA customs always in less than 5 minutes, and you do not get the third degree with Global Entry. The huge hassles with traveling abroad IMO are gone now.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2873869]In any case, I suppose I'll give Seeking another shot the next time I'm out of the country, assuming my other girl isn't accessible to me at the time.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I agree with that. I got hooked on this white underbelly channel, and there was this fascinating interview with this pimp here, [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbndAaZjRzg[/URL].

If you go the 36:13 mark, you will see him talking about his opinion about where this "human trafficking" element came from. Like with so many things, I swear the criminals seem more moral than the government.

I am not sure this is all of it. I think government officials think any money made illegally is theirs like with prostitution. The rest of the world seems to be giving human trafficking lip service but this has been an American led "crisis" decades in the making.

On top of that, there was this Men's right guy doing a video on how to fix a sexless marriage. His #1 piece of advice was if you are not getting in your marriage was to talk to your wife and see about getting it outside the marriage and paying for it, [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx53je5_I1c.[/URL] he counsels tons of men and said he was shocked at how many wives were okay with a man being out and having his fun. In fact, wives preferred if men paid for it.

The point is the USA governments are so fucked up with this "human trafficking" nonsense that guys should be going abroad for sex. The punishment these days for getting caught is insane.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2873869]Well, I guess just from my way of thinking, ....[/QUOTE]They go on seeking not looking for the same girls you can easily find elsewhere. They filter them out. They also don't look for girls by hour. Your cost calculation is off if it is based on PPM.

It seems you are stuck with only 1 who you can't easily meet. To use your own argument against you, why go to Europe and pay twice than you need to meet a Latin American girl?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2874057]On top of that, there was this Men's right guy doing a video on how to fix a sexless marriage. His #1 piece of advice was if you are not getting in your marriage was to talk to your wife and see about getting it outside the marriage and paying for it, [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx53je5_I1c.[/URL] he counsels tons of men and said he was shocked at how many wives were okay with a man being out and having his fun. In fact, wives preferred if men paid for it.[/QUOTE]This is so spot on! I have a friend who is in a sexless marriage. It's not that they don't love each other. They do, and they're still together. But, his wife (who I know) just lost interest in having sex. At the same time, she realized that her husband still had needs. So, she agreed that he could see tutes. She had just two rules. Number 1 was never, ever bring another woman into her house. And number 2 don't spend too much money (I don't know where they set the limit here). So, what you're talking about is for real. I'll tell you another thing too. I was shocked to learn how common it is to be fucking another man's wife with his knowledge and consent (cuckoldry). But that's another discussion for another time and place!

Have they defined a prostitute? Is it anybody you give money to for a sex act (to include seeking college girls) or is it only pros (AMPS, fkks, escorts, etc)? Probably best that he not have that conversation with her but wondering if you know.

My wife and I had that conversation about pros before we were married she said fine until it wasn't. As long as money changed hands my conscience was clear and I'd stick to pros. Seeking is a rather new, post divorce, experience as I don't even think it existed when we got married.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2874075]This is so spot on! I have a friend who is in a sexless marriage. It's not that they don't love each other. They do, and they're still together. But, his wife (who I know) just lost interest in having sex. At the same time, she realized that her husband still had needs. So, she agreed that he could see tutes. She had just two rules. Number 1 was never, ever bring another woman into her house. And number 2 don't spend too much money (I don't know where they set the limit here). So, what you're talking about is for real. I'll tell you another thing too. I was shocked to learn how common it is to be fucking another man's wife with his knowledge and consent (cuckoldry). But that's another discussion for another time and place![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2874201]Have they defined a prostitute? Is it anybody you give money to for a sex act (to include seeking college girls) or is it only pros (AMPS, fkks, escorts, etc)? Probably best that he not have that conversation with her but wondering if you know.

My wife and I had that conversation about pros before we were married she said fine until it wasn't. As long as money changed hands my conscience was clear and I'd stick to pros. Seeking is a rather new, post divorce, experience as I don't even think it existed when we got married.[/QUOTE]At the time there was no Seeking. So "prostitute" meant fucking pros for money. I don't know how Seeking fits (or doesn't) within their equation now.

Exactly. If I need to get off, meet an escort for an hour or two. Euro girls escort has quite a few. And, my regular is from there. But I will never take her out for dinner or dip in without condom.

If I need experience, hang out, chat, flirt, play a little cat and mouse game and then bed the chick, preferably without condom, seeking it is.

Apples and oranges, like someone said.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2873931]I really think the past day or two on this thread are apples and oranges discussions. If you want a sure thing, get an escort, if you want something in the gray area and enjoy (steve)/ put up with (me) the hunt and associated awards that are well documented, then use seeking.

Someone has said this before, but it's absolutely true. Once a girl bangs you she'll always bang you. Unless you piss her off or give her some reason not to. I don't consider myself to have a "stable" but there are girls that I've seen a few times and things just kind of ended on their own or never really took off with no official "break" but I could call any one of them tomorrow and I know they'd meet me for dinner with implied sex afterward of they weren't seeing someone and half of them would see me if even if they were seeing someone.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2873931]I really think the past day or two on this thread are apples and oranges discussions. If you want a sure thing, get an escort, if you want something in the gray area and enjoy (steve)/ put up with (me) the hunt and associated awards that are well documented, then use seeking.

Someone has said this before, but it's absolutely true. Once a girl bangs you she'll always bang you. Unless you piss her off or give her some reason not to. I don't consider myself to have a "stable" but there are girls that I've seen a few times and things just kind of ended on their own or never really took off with no official "break" but I could call any one of them tomorrow and I know they'd meet me for dinner with implied sex afterward of they weren't seeing someone and half of them would see me if even if they were seeing someone.[/QUOTE]I too am about the chase, I love it, but I am not stupid when I have something good I stick with it. There are 4 girls in MTY, that I have been seeing since Covid, all 4 are great girls and total freaks, but traveling to MTY is rough now. Driving is horrible, it now takes 2 additional hours with all the traffic now and yes, I can fly to CDMX cheaper then MTY. It makes no sense, that a a flight to MTY is so expensive in Texas. So I am pretty much sticking with CDMX now.

In CDMX I am seeing 5-7 girls regularly and always looking for new ones. I can not complain my life is amazing and a large part of that is directly from.

SA. SA has totally changed my life for the better.

There is a lot of haters about SA, and we all agree it is tough in the states. But of the guys that post regularly I never recall any of us telling guys not to use every option to meet chicks. (Twitter, Escorts, other on-line options.). Hell, Elvis even suggested handing out cards. It works, when I was in Kiev / Moscow all my Italian friends would use this. It is tough, but it works. So I will never understand why some constantly Hate on SA. It just makes no sense and $90 a month is nothing.

The main thing is:

If the subscription cost is too much for you, SA is probably not for you to begin with.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2874264]I too am about the chase, I love it, but I am not stupid when I have something good I stick with it. There are 4 girls in MTY, that I have been seeing since Covid, all 4 are great girls and total freaks, but traveling to MTY is rough now. Driving is horrible, it now takes 2 additional hours with all the traffic now and yes, I can fly to CDMX cheaper then MTY. It makes no sense, that a a flight to MTY is so expensive in Texas. So I am pretty much sticking with CDMX now.

In CDMX I am seeing 5-7 girls regularly and always looking for new ones. I can not complain my life is amazing and a large part of that is directly from.

SA. SA has totally changed my life for the better.

There is a lot of haters about SA, and we all agree it is tough in the states. But of the guys that post regularly I never recall any of us telling guys not to use every option to meet chicks. (Twitter, Escorts, other on-line options.). Hell, Elvis even suggested handing out cards. It works, when I was in Kiev / Moscow all my Italian friends would use this. It is tough, but it works. So I will never understand why some constantly Hate on SA. It just makes no sense and $90 a month is nothing.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Nounce;2874074]They go on seeking not looking for the same girls you can easily find elsewhere. They filter them out. They also don't look for girls by hour. Your cost calculation is off if it is based on PPM.

It seems you are stuck with only 1 who you can't easily meet. To use your own argument against you, why go to Europe and pay twice than you need to meet a Latin American girl?[/QUOTE]That's why I'm on this forum. I met the girl in EU during the tail end of 2022. We didn't take the trip until the 2nd quarter of this year. I haven't seen her since July, now we are in December; she had to go back to EU and she's still there, otherwise I would have just seen her in South America in October. I'm trying to get advice from people on this forum about Central and South America. I wish the guy who was just talking about Monterrey in Mexico would PM me with links to some of the girls he has seen.

But more to the point, you just mentioned the real problem I had with Seeking, which now that I think about it wasn't the monthly cost, though I still think it's exorbitant. Once I logged into my account to check the pricing, I think back to all the messages I sent to girls on there, and the people I attempted to communicate with. The real problem was that immediately upon contacting these retarded gringos, they would demand a signed contract stating a $5,000 monthly allowance. Not only did no one want to meet first without being guaranteed a long term, ongoing monthly payment, no one even wanted to video chat to confirm that they were the same girl from the pictures. All the stupid bitches wanted to talk about from the very first sentence was "How much are you willing to give me each month for the next year?" Not "Hi, how are you, how was your day?" The very first thing out of their goddamn mouths was how much money they wanted per month, and they wanted it immediately before discussing anything else. So thus I must be convinced that girls from Mexico, or DR, or Brazil aren't going to behave exactly the same way.

And I'm kind of curious. I know that cell phones have proliferated in 3rd world countries compared to say 2005. So have cell phone towers and service, especially now in 2023 if you look at South America, and to a significantly lesser extent, even Africa. But what I'm really curious about is why would all these girls choose to get on Seeking if it is a service that has been primarily scrutinized in the America media? Whereas Tinder for instance is used in other countries. I don't know how Seeking got publicity overseas, but I'm wondering what would cause all of these Latinas to see themselves as sugar babies, and not act the same way on Seeking that American women do?

This just isn't what happens to me. It's work, I don't think anybody argues against that. I have a type so maybe my type doesn't do this but I'd be weary of anybody talking about a long term arrangement without actually meeting me first. Any serious girl would understand this as well. You must be drawn to the prostitutes on the site, and there are plenty.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2874362]That's why I'm on this forum. I met the girl in EU during the tail end of 2022. We didn't take the trip until the 2nd quarter of this year. I haven't seen her since July, now we are in December; she had to go back to EU and she's still there, otherwise I would have just seen her in South America in October. I'm trying to get advice from people on this forum about Central and South America. I wish the guy who was just talking about Monterrey in Mexico would PM me with links to some of the girls he has seen.

But more to the point, you just mentioned the real problem I had with Seeking, which now that I think about it wasn't the monthly cost, though I still think it's exorbitant. Once I logged into my account to check the pricing, I think back to all the messages I sent to girls on there, and the people I attempted to communicate with. The real problem was that immediately upon contacting these retarded gringos, they would demand a signed contract stating a $5,000 monthly allowance. Not only did no one want to meet first without being guaranteed a long term, ongoing monthly payment, no one even wanted to video chat to confirm that they were the same girl from the pictures. All the stupid bitches wanted to talk about from the very first sentence was "How much are you willing to give me each month for the next year?" Not "Hi, how are you, how was your day?" The very first thing out of their goddamn mouths was how much money they wanted per month, and they wanted it immediately before discussing anything else. So thus I must be convinced that girls from Mexico, or DR, or Brazil aren't going to behave exactly the same way.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Tefnx;2874358]The main thing is:

If the subscription cost is too much for you, SA is probably not for you to begin with.[/QUOTE]I agree with you and DF on this point totally.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2874362]But more to the point, you just mentioned the real problem I had with Seeking, which now that I think about it wasn't the monthly cost, though I still think it's exorbitant. Once I logged into my account to check the pricing, I think back to all the messages I sent to girls on there, and the people I attempted to communicate with. The real problem was that immediately upon contacting these retarded gringos, they would demand a signed contract stating a $5,000 monthly allowance. Not only did no one want to meet first without being guaranteed a long term, ongoing monthly payment, no one even wanted to video chat to confirm that they were the same girl from the pictures. All the stupid bitches wanted to talk about from the very first sentence was "How much are you willing to give me each month for the next year?" Not "Hi, how are you, how was your day?" The very first thing out of their goddamn mouths was how much money they wanted per month, and they wanted it immediately before discussing anything else. So thus I must be convinced that girls from Mexico, or DR, or Brazil aren't going to behave exactly the same way.

And I'm kind of curious. I know that cell phones have proliferated in 3rd world countries compared to say 2005. So have cell phone towers and service, especially now in 2023 if you look at South America, and to a significantly lesser extent, even Africa. But what I'm really curious about is why would all these girls choose to get on Seeking if it is a service that has been primarily scrutinized in the America media? Whereas Tinder for instance is used in other countries. I don't know how Seeking got publicity overseas, but I'm wondering what would cause all of these Latinas to see themselves as sugar babies, and not act the same way on Seeking that American women do?[/QUOTE]There is no question that there is overlap with working women and seeking, and there are tons of scam artists on there, and it sucked weeding through them. Thing is we have all these wankers who think their street walkers and average looking MILF types are equal to the best of what is on seeking. Just tune those guys out. They cannot handle guys doing better than them.

I was in far West Texas and heard a woman there say, "I need to find a sugar daddy and have him fly me to the Caribbean for a vacation", and she was a professional. This is literally the buckle of the Bible belt. You would never hear that with a hooker and her clients out in the open. I am sure that woman was on seeking.

As for South America, it has been a while for me, but half the women had never been on a date before and had to be educated on what seeking was. The average Colombian makes $500 a month, so $90 or so is huge for them. Only the most wealthy can afford it. If you are a Colombian woman and want to meet a well to do foreigner and be taken seriously, seeking is the way to go.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2874362] All the stupid bitches wanted to talk about from the very first sentence was "How much are you willing to give me each month for the next year?" Not "Hi, how are you, how was your day?" The very first thing out of their goddamn mouths was how much money they wanted per month, and they wanted it immediately before discussing anything else.[/QUOTE]They are looking for a sucker. I have not been on that site for over 2 years and am happy recycling my old sugar babies. 200 is my rate, sometimes up to 300. Nothing more.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2874378]This just isn't what happens to me. It's work, I don't think anybody argues against that. I have a type so maybe my type doesn't do this but I'd be weary of anybody talking about a long term arrangement without actually meeting me first. Any serious girl would understand this as well. You must be drawn to the prostitutes on the site, and there are plenty.[/QUOTE]I should get a concrete answer from my "semi novia" by Christmas as to when she's going to be back in South America. For all I know she might actually leave Europe up before then. That should at least allow me to make an educated decision as to whether I want to pursue Seeking again. If she's available, it would be pointless because she's probably more beautiful than any other girl I've seen in my entire life, that includes seeing crowds of hundreds of thousands of women at the Olympics and other sporting events with legions of people. I can't say I'm a big fan of her numerous tattoos but that's about my only complaint. If I do wind up trying Seeking again in other countries I will give you guys some feedback if I have a better experience.

On the note of prostitutes, I think Miriam Webster's dictionary needs to revise their definition. From my way of thinking, any woman who sees the quantity of money as a deciding factor in determining which man she interacts with either romantically or sexually, is a prostitute. What makes the girls on Eros and Slixa different than the girls on [URL]match.com[/URL] and eHarmony, is that the ones on the former don't typically discriminate based on your appearance, religion, or sense of humor. Whereas the ones on the latter would typically want you to be a good Christian man who wants to raise kids and perhaps has a master's degree. IN ADDITION to looking for money. That, and the less obvious prostitutes may not necessarily offer sex on the first date. Because the only women who pick up their dates without taking money into account are doing so based solely on the guys demeanor and or being tall, dark and handsome. Those aren't prostitutes, those are just women.

Because the only other possible excuse a woman could come up with for wanting to know about a man's money, is because she doesn't want men leaching off of her. If you are a gainfully employed woman or a woman who has sufficient assets to support your lifestyle without a man, there's not any other reason in the entire world why you would be concerned about how much money a guy has. Otherwise, they wouldn't be paying attention to beautiful muscular stud muffins who are penniless. The truth is their egos are just too bloated to acknowledge they are prostitutes hiding in disguise If we went back to the 18th century where women were not allowed to vote, and had very limited opportunities to work, I might not be making this argument. Barring that, I'm inclined to believe most women in the US are prostitutes, it's just that some are more selective than others, and less open about their sexuality. So in this instance, thumbs up to the conventional sex workers.

I never watched a cam girl before but today I was bored, so I logged onto [URL=https://www.cuckoldchat.cam]free cuckold chat website[/URL]. Between the bored sounding chicks begging for tips to apparently start a vibrator for 3 seconds, to the music in the background being played through a potato, to the weird comment dudes in the chat and the chick constantly reaching over to peck out shit on a keyboard while the guy struggles to keep his dick hard, I totally don't get it. Wouldn't it be more fun to blow a load to a good porn vid instead.

Hi gents, I've been reading and contributing to the forums on FKKs and the escort scene in various countries, and now I'm interested in starting with Seeking to get the more genuine GFE-type experiences that you all have described. I thank you all (especially guys like Steve 9696) for the helpful guides & tips in this thread, which have helped me understand some of the basics (establish PPM pricing upfront without going straight there, close the deal on the first date, use hotels even in your own city, and so on). I'm now interested in finding some SBs in London later this month, so I'll be paying for the Seeking membership and getting my profile ready. But I'm wondering what to put in my profile to maximize the chance of attracting girls there. Sorry if I missed the postings on this, but some things I'm wondering:

- My own profile photo: Would I need to post a profile picture at all? We all value our anonymity, so I'd rather not have photos posted, but is this a necessity? If so, I guess you'd blur your face or something? I've read some guidance with other tips (e. G. , hint at some wealth / income in the picture (s) without being obnoxious about it), but I wonder if I need pictures at all, and if there's any guidance on this.

- Some of the girls' profiles mention that they might ask for my photos. I'd also rather not have a girl be able to save my photo, so if this happens, I think I'd rather just tell the girl we should have a video chat to see each other. There's still a risk of screenshot, but it seems lower than sending a picture. Are girls usually ok with this, or is there any other guidance?

Thanks in advance for your guidance.

[QUOTE=NF4591;2875626]Hi gents, I've been reading and contributing to the forums on FKKs and the escort scene in various countries, and now I'm interested in starting with Seeking to get the more genuine GFE-type experiences that you all have described. I thank you all (especially guys like Steve 9696) for the helpful guides & tips in this thread, which have helped me understand some of the basics (establish PPM pricing upfront without going straight there, close the deal on the first date, use hotels even in your own city, and so on). I'm now interested in finding some SBs in London later this month, so I'll be paying for the Seeking membership and getting my profile ready. But I'm wondering what to put in my profile to maximize the chance of attracting girls there. Sorry if I missed the postings on this, but some things I'm wondering:

- My own profile photo: Would I need to post a profile picture at all? We all value our anonymity, so I'd rather not have photos posted, but is this a necessity? If so, I guess you'd blur your face or something? I've read some guidance with other tips (e. G. , hint at some wealth / income in the picture (s) without being obnoxious about it), but I wonder if I need pictures at all, and if there's any guidance on this.

- Some of the girls' profiles mention that they might ask for my photos. I'd also rather not have a girl be able to save my photo, so if this happens, I think I'd rather just tell the girl we should have a video chat to see each other. There's still a risk of screenshot, but it seems lower than sending a picture. Are girls usually ok with this, or is there any other guidance?

Thanks in advance for your guidance.[/QUOTE]You def don't need a profile photo. I don't have one and most guys I know don't. Doesn't seem a deterrent at all. In my profile I do say that I am happy to send on WhatsApp or text. I used to be more paranoid about this. But I've found that any girl I take over to chat (hundreds in last few years) is just a regular girl trying to figure this shit out. She has way too much drama in her life to even have time to do something nefarious with your photo.

FWIW if you are really paranoid you can create a close approximation. For Facebook, which is the primary hookup method in Medellin, I rally needed one. I used face morphing app on my phone to blend my face with the celebrity I look most like. It worked shockingly well. Def similar enough to not be called out but different enough that it could never lead to harm.

One more recent thing I did, after I wrote my guide was to add a couple clarifications at the bottom of my profile. I don't remember the exact words but something like "I am am looking for complete SBSD, not arm candy or a friend. " To be clear that I expect sex. And also said something like "we have to chat to figure this out so if you answer me with one or two words we are probably not a match. ".

Best of luck. Feel free to hit me up on PM if you need any other more personalized advice.

I was paranoid originally but two things happened.

1) I've considered plausible deniability. Excuse that someone is boosting my pic from somewhere. I put one public pic wearing sunglasses and everything else remains private.

2) the scientist in me did some experimenting and I definitely got more responses to my approaches than by not by making one or more pics public.

I am not an Adonis by any stretch of the imagination but someone needs to "go first" and it's a disarming tool. Women aren't as hung up on looks as we are, I think that's a cold hard fact. Knowing I'm not a fat slob, have two heads, or are 100 yrs old is really all they're looking for. I regularly "date" outside of my race, in fact I only date outside my race, and I'm not being humble when I say I'm dating up. I only see 8/9-10's.

What I'd do is do what makes you comfortable at first. If you don't like the results, show a pic and see what happens.

[QUOTE=NF4591;2875626]Hi gents, I've been reading and contributing to the forums on FKKs and the escort scene in various countries, and now I'm interested in starting with Seeking to get the more genuine GFE-type experiences that you all have described. I thank you all (especially guys like Steve 9696) for the helpful guides & tips in this thread, which have helped me understand some of the basics (establish PPM pricing upfront without going straight there, close the deal on the first date, use hotels even in your own city, and so on). I'm now interested in finding some SBs in London later this month, so I'll be paying for the Seeking membership and getting my profile ready. But I'm wondering what to put in my profile to maximize the chance of attracting girls there. Sorry if I missed the postings on this, but some things I'm wondering:

- My own profile photo: Would I need to post a profile picture at all? We all value our anonymity, so I'd rather not have photos posted, but is this a necessity? If so, I guess you'd blur your face or something? I've read some guidance with other tips (e. G. , hint at some wealth / income in the picture (s) without being obnoxious about it), but I wonder if I need pictures at all, and if there's any guidance on this.

- Some of the girls' profiles mention that they might ask for my photos. I'd also rather not have a girl be able to save my photo, so if this happens, I think I'd rather just tell the girl we should have a video chat to see each other. There's still a risk of screenshot, but it seems lower than sending a picture. Are girls usually ok with this, or is there any other guidance?

Thanks in advance for your guidance.[/QUOTE]

Same here. Paranoid initially but grew over it.

One public pic that shows my back / silhouette. Can't say it's me.

Private pic shows face and body. This is also the same pic if someone image searched will be found on a public community page.

If caught, my reasoning. Someone picked my pic from that site.

If SB does the same. She will know my real name, what I do etc. Either no SB has done it so far or they are smart to not tell me they know who I am.

For me, the benefit of denial far outweighs the cost of SB knowing who I am.

I mitigate by not sharing my private pic with all girls I chat with.

I also date SBs outside my race. Perhaps, not always 8/9 but never my own race. It's boring.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2875720]I was paranoid originally but two things happened.

1) I've considered plausible deniability. Excuse that someone is boosting my pic from somewhere. I put one public pic wearing sunglasses and everything else remains private.

2) the scientist in me did some experimenting and I definitely got more responses to my approaches than by not by making one or more pics public.

I am not an Adonis by any stretch of the imagination but someone needs to "go first" and it's a disarming tool. Women aren't as hung up on looks as we are, I think that's a cold hard fact. Knowing I'm not a fat slob, have two heads, or are 100 yrs old is really all they're looking for. I regularly "date" outside of my race, in fact I only date outside my race, and I'm not being humble when I say I'm dating up. I only see 8/9-10's.

What I'd do is do what makes you comfortable at first. If you don't like the results, show a pic and see what happens.[/QUOTE]

Long time reader. Used seeking in 10+ countries. My type is model material Caucasian women.

Currently with a 10/10 in Serbia for 350 euro per meet (think Margot Robbie with bigger boobs) she mentioned some guys pay her 1000+ per day for travel.

Other cities that I've had success:

Warsaw.

Bucharest.

Moscow.

Riga.

Vienna.

Pondering where to lounge long term, would prefer some place warm all year.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2874514]Because the only other possible excuse a woman could come up with for wanting to know about a man's money, is because she doesn't want men leaching off of her. If you are a gainfully employed woman or a woman who has sufficient assets to support your lifestyle without a man, there's not any other reason in the entire world why you would be concerned about how much money a guy has. Otherwise, they wouldn't be paying attention to beautiful muscular stud muffins who are penniless. The truth is their egos are just too bloated to acknowledge they are prostitutes hiding in disguise If we went back to the 18th century where women were not allowed to vote, and had very limited opportunities to work, I might not be making this argument. Barring that, I'm inclined to believe most women in the US are prostitutes, it's just that some are more selective than others, and less open about their sexuality. So in this instance, thumbs up to the conventional sex workers.[/QUOTE]I cannot believe I am going to defend American women but about 90% of women have kids when they are 40. Many are swimming in student loan debt being fed the nonsense about the value of a college education even a nonSTEM one.

There was a video of a hottie on Twitter that was being shown of a woman who had a job and was spending 12 hours a day between work and commuting griping that she had time for nothing else, and she was one that actually had a job. Most reactions to her complaining was "Get over it" but mine was "Remember how oppressed you women claim to be in the 50's being house wives? Doesn't that sound good now?" Studies on happiness show women were happier than they are now. It is not just the colleges that have lied to women but those feminist virtues of having your own career do not sound all that great when you actually are stuck having to do the work.

If you are a woman making an average salary and have children, you are literally going to be saving nothing and probably going into more debt, and you better pray you do not have a special needs child with something like ADHD or autism.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2874514] Because the only women who pick up their dates without taking money into account are doing so based solely on the guys demeanor and or being tall, dark and handsome. Those aren't prostitutes, those are just women.[/QUOTE]Unless they are in school or delusional, most women do not have the luxury of taking into account looks. If you want to be a stay at home mother, your husband better be making $200 k and that is less than 1% of all men 30 years of age. It goes up to 5% when you move up to age 45 so tall, dark, and handsome is not a luxury most women can afford.

When I was a kid, an 18 year old could get a job at the local factory and pay for his own house. His wife could stay at home. He could afford a new car every year and have steaks on the weekend. Those days are long gone.

This new dynamic plays right into the hands of us sugar daddies. What else are you going to do if you are a woman looking to make a few grand a month? This is why sugaring exploded particularly after the 2009 Great Recession.

I asked one of my SB if she was ashamed of having a sugar daddy. She told me she was not ashamed. In fact, she said most of her friends were envious she had a sugar daddy and they did not.

But I get where you are coming from and thinking about what is "just women". There seems to be no spotlight being shined on the troubles the average American woman is having.

One reason I so preferred the Mexican and Colombian women in comparison to the American ones was the lack of desperation for money. There was always talk of money before sex with American women but not always with the Latinas. The Latin women almost always seems to have massive family support and American women at best would have their mothers helping them out. For all the talk about how great the USA is, I sure do not see it when it comes to happiness.

Young American women, even the hot ones, IMO really are living lives of quiet desperation.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2876195]I cannot believe I am going to defend American women but about 90% of women have kids when they are 40. Many are swimming in student loan debt being fed the nonsense about the value of a college education even a nonSTEM one.

There was a video of a hottie on Twitter that was being shown of a woman who had a job and was spending 12 hours a day between work and commuting griping that she had time for nothing else, and she was one that actually had a job. Most reactions to her complaining was "Get over it" but mine was "Remember how oppressed you women claim to be in the 50's being house wives? Doesn't that sound good now?" Studies on happiness show women were happier than they are now. It is not just the colleges that have lied to women but those feminist virtues of having your own career do not sound all that great when you actually are stuck having to do the work.

If you are a woman making an average salary and have children, you are literally going to be saving nothing and probably going into more debt, and you better pray you do not have a special needs child with something like ADHD or autism.

Unless they are in school or delusional, most women do not have the luxury of taking into account looks. If you want to be a stay at home mother, your husband better be making $200 k and that is less than 1% of all men 30 years of age. It goes up to 5% when you move up to age 45 so tall, dark, and handsome is not a luxury most women can afford.

When I was a kid, an 18 year old could get a job at the local factory and pay for his own house. His wife could stay at home. He could afford a new car every year and have steaks on the weekend. Those days are long gone.

This new dynamic plays right into the hands of us sugar daddies. What else are you going to do if you are a woman looking to make a few grand a month? This is why sugaring exploded particularly after the 2009 Great Recession.

I asked one of my SB if she was ashamed of having a sugar daddy. She told me she was not ashamed. In fact, she said most of her friends were envious she had a sugar daddy and they did not.

But I get where you are coming from and thinking about what is "just women". There seems to be no spotlight being shined on the troubles the average American woman is having.

One reason I so preferred the Mexican and Colombian women in comparison to the American ones was the lack of desperation for money. There was always talk of money before sex with American women but not always with the Latinas. The Latin women almost always seems to have massive family support and American women at best would have their mothers helping them out. For all the talk about how great the USA is, I sure do not see it when it comes to happiness.

Young American women, even the hot ones, IMO really are living lives of quiet desperation.[/QUOTE]I have been thinking about this a lot lately. I thought more Mexican worked, but too my amazement many will do anything not to work. Including joining SA, among many other things and many of those activities do not involve sex. They all tell me how stressed out they are, but when I compare their lives to American Chicks, in many ways they have it way better. Now they do not have all the material things that Americans have, but many take several vacation a year and live a decent life, with far less stress.

American women have it very tough now, a lot of this is from the feminist movement and trying to have everything equal. Now they have it and they are having to work their ass off, plus raise a family. So I also feel bad from them now, but this does not excuse their crazy ass behavior and unrealistic expectations.

I do not claim to say what girls have it better.

Trying out SA at my local city in North America and it's a lot of work.

Getting overpriced amateur escorts.

Reading through the thread seems like seeking is best in the Latin American countries.

[QUOTE=Nachoy;2876538]Trying out SA at my local city in North America and it's a lot of work.

Getting overpriced amateur escorts.

Reading through the thread seems like seeking is best in the Latin American countries.[/QUOTE]Yeah it's been documented here exhaustively that it takes a bunch of work. And can vary depending on your city. And of course USA is most expensive pussy on the planet thanks to our Puritanical laws and culture of sex shaming. But what specifically are you seeing? No one at the 400-500 price point? Because they def exist tho a lot of work. What are you seeing?

Well yesterday was an interesting experience. In Mexico.

My type is true amateur. The student, the retail employee, the one who just needs a few extra bucks.

Met a 23 year old from the site. Graduate student in biology. This looks good.

Met in person. Not as cute as her pictures. But had a very normal girl quality to her. Like if you saw her on the street you wouldn't stare, but you wouldn't look away either.

Very timid at dinner. Hard to keep conversation going. Saw her yawn once and thought this is not going so well. Still, asked if she was coming back and she said yes.

This is where it got interesting at last. As soon as we got in the apartment she was a freak. Sloppy kissing, super wet, moaning all over.

When we started having sex she told me to spank her. Then harder. Each time she yelled out and said more.

After the first time of sex she said "I want more. " Multiple times that night, middle of the night, all it took was our legs brushing up against each other or something and she was grinding on me to go again.

I could not keep up. It was just so much.

Will I repeat? Probably not. Sometimes more of a good thing is just too much. This was too much.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2876774]Well yesterday was an interesting experience. In Mexico.

My type is true amateur. The student, the retail employee, the one who just needs a few extra bucks.

Met a 23 year old from the site. Graduate student in biology. This looks good.

Met in person. Not as cute as her pictures. But had a very normal girl quality to her. Like if you saw her on the street you wouldn't stare, but you wouldn't look away either.

Very timid at dinner. Hard to keep conversation going. Saw her yawn once and thought this is not going so well. Still, asked if she was coming back and she said yes.

This is where it got interesting at last. As soon as we got in the apartment she was a freak. Sloppy kissing, super wet, moaning all over.

When we started having sex she told me to spank her. Then harder. Each time she yelled out and said more.

After the first time of sex she said "I want more. " Multiple times that night, middle of the night, all it took was our legs brushing up against each other or something and she was grinding on me to go again..[/QUOTE]You complain when you don't get it. And then you complain when you get it too! LOL! Never satisfied! Either it's too much rain, or it isn't raining enough. My God!

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2876774]Well yesterday was an interesting experience. In Mexico.

My type is true amateur. The student, the retail employee, the one who just needs a few extra bucks.

Met a 23 year old from the site. Graduate student in biology. This looks good.

Met in person. Not as cute as her pictures. But had a very normal girl quality to her. Like if you saw her on the street you wouldn't stare, but you wouldn't look away either.

Very timid at dinner. Hard to keep conversation going. Saw her yawn once and thought this is not going so well. Still, asked if she was coming back and she said yes.

This is where it got interesting at last. As soon as we got in the apartment she was a freak. Sloppy kissing, super wet, moaning all over.

When we started having sex she told me to spank her. Then harder. Each time she yelled out and said more.[/QUOTE]I am back in CDMX for 48 hours. I just got done with an amazing session. One or 2 more dates, this evening, but the traffic is killing me.

You have to love the Latinas they live sex!

My german SB is exactly this.

A bit shy and borderline boring is what I thought until I had her in the shower.

Yes, I casually walked in when she was freshening up, I undressed and stepped in to the shower with her. I still remember her facial expression. Mouth open, kinda making sense out of me undressing (shower had a glass panel). I walked in, got wet, stood behind her, held her breasts, which were nice and firm with pink nipples, ran my hands down her waist and fingers between her legs. She started moaning, I was super erect rubbing against her wet ass. Water flowing between us.

I bent her over and entered her from behind without even asking. What followed was epic sex in shower with me finishing on her ass.

She jumps out, puts towel on me, wipes urgently and went "let's go to the bedroom".

Since then no looking back. When we meet. We fuck at least 4 times in a night. Then, 2 or 3 times next AM.

Such a sweet sex kitten. Keep her. Don't let her go.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2876774]Well yesterday was an interesting experience. In Mexico.

My type is true amateur. The student, the retail employee, the one who just needs a few extra bucks.

Met a 23 year old from the site. Graduate student in biology. This looks good.

Met in person. Not as cute as her pictures. But had a very normal girl quality to her. Like if you saw her on the street you wouldn't stare, but you wouldn't look away either.

Very timid at dinner. Hard to keep conversation going. Saw her yawn once and thought this is not going so well. Still, asked if she was coming back and she said yes.

This is where it got interesting at last. As soon as we got in the apartment she was a freak. Sloppy kissing, super wet, moaning all over.

When we started having sex she told me to spank her. Then harder. Each time she yelled out and said more.

After the first time of sex she said "I want more. " Multiple times that night, middle of the night, all it took was our legs brushing up against each other or something and she was grinding on me to go again.

I could not keep up. It was just so much.

Will I repeat? Probably not. Sometimes more of a good thing is just too much. This was too much.[/QUOTE]

Anyone know why when I try to search for gals in CDMX or Rio it just keep giving me results in Las Vegas Nevada? Anyone else encountering this problem? And how do you fix it?

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2876897]My german SB is exactly this.

A bit shy and borderline boring is what I thought until I had her in the shower.

Yes, I casually walked in when she was freshening up, I undressed and stepped in to the shower with her. I still remember her facial expression. Mouth open, kinda making sense out of me undressing (shower had a glass panel). I walked in, got wet, stood behind her, held her breasts, which were nice and firm with pink nipples, ran my hands down her waist and fingers between her legs. She started moaning, I was super erect rubbing against her wet ass. Water flowing between us.

I bent her over and entered her from behind without even asking. What followed was epic sex in shower with me finishing on her ass.

She jumps out, puts towel on me, wipes urgently and went "let's go to the bedroom".

Since then no looking back. When we meet. We fuck at least 4 times in a night. Then, 2 or 3 times next AM.

Such a sweet sex kitten. Keep her. Don't let her go.[/QUOTE]I'm letting this one go. Honestly it was just too much. At some point I wasn't even enjoying it. I was just trying to stay hard to keep up with her. We went at it 4 times that night, only 2 of which I enjoyed, the first and last because I was aroused for both. The middle ones were her just doing all she could to keep going. Blowing me, hand job, moaning near me. And the minute my dick shows signs of life she was mounting me and trying to keep it going. I appreciate some guys have a sex drive that would be compatible with this. But I just don't see how. I mean after she came, right away there was zero enjoying the moment. 3 seconds later she was telling me to keep going.

It was like eating at a buffet where you can't leave till you finish 4 plates. It's no longer enjoyable at some point. You're thinking I'm done and ready to go home.

I hear you. Makes sense.

The buffet is a good analogy. Thinking of it, there are only two SBs. The german and the Spain ones with whom I enjoy multiple fucks.

Rest are all - "ok, when are you leaving?. I came and I am done" kind of feeling.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2877578]I'm letting this one go. Honestly it was just too much. At some point I wasn't even enjoying it. I was just trying to stay hard to keep up with her. We went at it 4 times that night, only 2 of which I enjoyed, the first and last because I was aroused for both. The middle ones were her just doing all she could to keep going. Blowing me, hand job, moaning near me. And the minute my dick shows signs of life she was mounting me and trying to keep it going. I appreciate some guys have a sex drive that would be compatible with this. But I just don't see how. I mean after she came, right away there was zero enjoying the moment. 3 seconds later she was telling me to keep going.

It was like eating at a buffet where you can't leave till you finish 4 plates. It's no longer enjoyable at some point. You're thinking I'm done and ready to go home.[/QUOTE]

If you are on the mobile app, you have to scroll down and click "apply filters".

Other than that, I can't think of any.

[QUOTE=Zizou23;2877566]Anyone know why when I try to search for gals in CDMX or Rio it just keep giving me results in Las Vegas Nevada? Anyone else encountering this problem? And how do you fix it?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2877848]I hear you. Makes sense.

The buffet is a good analogy. Thinking of it, there are only two SBs. The german and the Spain ones with whom I enjoy multiple fucks.

Rest are all - "ok, when are you leaving?. I came and I am done" kind of feeling.[/QUOTE]OMG the "when are you leaving" vibe? LOL.

I usually insist girls stay the night because I like morning sex. Frankly I gift generously and it makes me feel I'm getting my money's worth. But after that morning bang ends, I start throwing "it's time for you to go" vibes. And it's always awkward. Super short responses because I'm not trying to start new conversations. No discussions of breakfast or coffee. Just "wow it's already 8 am. Geez I slept in. I have such a big day and I'm already behind. " And then I anxiously watch them get dressed and stuff. Sometimes they want to take a shower (which I suspect is because hotel showers are much nicer than their showers at home) and I'm thinking "great she's going to be here another 20 minutes and I just want to checkout and go to Starbucks. "

It's a sad reality that once I've dumped my bag, and there isn't another session on the docket, I just want to get on with my day.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2878071]OMG the "when are you leaving" vibe? LOL.

I usually insist girls stay the night because I like morning sex. Frankly I gift generously and it makes me feel I'm getting my money's worth. But after that morning bang ends, I start throwing "it's time for you to go" vibes. And it's always awkward. Super short responses because I'm not trying to start new conversations. No discussions of breakfast or coffee. Just "wow it's already 8 am. Geez I slept in. I have such a big day and I'm already behind. " And then I anxiously watch them get dressed and stuff. Sometimes they want to take a shower (which I suspect is because hotel showers are much nicer than their showers at home) and I'm thinking "great she's going to be here another 20 minutes and I just want to checkout and go to Starbucks. "

It's a sad reality that once I've dumped my bag, and there isn't another session on the docket, I just want to get on with my day.[/QUOTE]I am prob a bit unusual but I like the dating part. Not just dinner and go to room. But if she stays over then brunch and the pool or whatever. I enjoy hanging with hot girls 1/3 my age. (Half my age is way too old and boring. 😋)

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2878113]I enjoy hanging with hot girls 1/3 my age. (Half my age is way too old and boring. 😋)[/QUOTE]Isn't that such an interesting dynamic? When I set age range, the target is 20-23. Once a girl is 24,25, she's pushing it. 27 or 28 I've never gone that high. That's high mileage to me. I totally assume they are better conversationalists, have more to say. But I also feel like if I'm renting a car I'the rather rent a newer model.

I think when I put it that way, I almost sound, maybe just a tad, a teensy bit, possibly just possibly a bit misogynistic. Maybe.

I don't mean to suggest women's value goes down after 23. I just mean their sex value to me goes down. And since I'm married and not looking for another wife, that's their value. Don't need a girlfriend. Just a non-annoying hot toy to pipe into.

Definitely had the same glitch you encountered for about 10 days. I emailed support and looks like they fixed it (at least Rio).

F.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2877849]If you are on the mobile app, you have to scroll down and click "apply filters".

Other than that, I can't think of any.[/QUOTE]

I Dmed Seeking page on Instagram and its fixed now thanks for the help all!

When I'm in Germany I want the fastest thing on the lot, anywhere else I couldn't care less unless I'm specifically using it for a road trip then the newer the better.

I saw a young 30's girl for a while who's life was a complete mess. She was fairly new to the scene, or so I believe. I didn't have any more or less trouble getting along with her than I did any other girl. But I seem to do best with girls in their mid twenties. I can pull them younger but it's difficult to have any kind of small talk with them let aline a date. I usually filter them at 21, I want to be able to grab a drink. It's bad enough they get carded.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2878148]Isn't that such an interesting dynamic? When I set age range, the target is 20-23. Once a girl is 24,25, she's pushing it. 27 or 28 I've never gone that high. That's high mileage to me. I totally assume they are better conversationalists, have more to say. But I also feel like if I'm renting a car I'the rather rent a newer model.

I think when I put it that way, I almost sound, maybe just a tad, a teensy bit, possibly just possibly a bit misogynistic. Maybe.

I don't mean to suggest women's value goes down after 23. I just mean their sex value to me goes down. And since I'm married and not looking for another wife, that's their value. Don't need a girlfriend. Just a non-annoying hot toy to pipe into.[/QUOTE]

Somehow once the dick gets his share, my brain switches off with most girls.

I want the non rushed GFE but the day after is just boring. The two exceptiona are my German and Spain SBs (German 23, Spanish 28) are exceptiona. Even that is only for a day or two. That is why I don't take them on tripa.

The only person I can hangout happily with / without sex is my wife Ironically, I fish outside because fiahing at one place is boring, and then find the new place boring right after I catch the fish that I go back to my fiahing spot.

Something off with the brain wiring.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2878113]I am prob a bit unusual but I like the dating part. Not just dinner and go to room. But if she stays over then brunch and the pool or whatever. I enjoy hanging with hot girls 1/3 my age. (Half my age is way too old and boring. 😋)[/QUOTE]

Most of my and your Seeking is short term a few dates, or a weekend. Every once in a while you hit one that ends up almost like an LTR. Like Elvis is tied up big time with his hottie. Shayla and I are still NSA but def have that long term comfort thing going on. Yes it's not as electric as at first but the sex can still be epic.

For those that like a good Penthouse forum read, read on. Here's how the other night went down.

Arrived at Shayla's for date night as usual and chatted for quite some time. We moved to the bed and watched Netflix for a bit, her in the crook of my arm.

So as time passed, I suggested massage and stripped to my skivvies. I give her quite a good and focused massage but after a while start thinking of sex. So I take off her pants and start hip thrust sliding my balls over her ass crack while massaging and eventually grow a chub and then a full fledged hardon. It feels great. After some time I move off the bed and around to where her face is.

She is lying on her belly and props herself on her elbows and takes me in her mouth. This is an amazing position because I can continue to give her an amazing back massage while she blows the fuck out of me. This is super win win because she is happy to BJ and enjoy the massage. Def going to repeat this!

Kinda like 69 it's distracting to do something while being blown. So it feels great but not going to blow a load and can go on forever. We are definitely at this for 20+ minutes. When I feel I might blow, I direct her on some ball work as well and it feels amazing. Got to fuck her now!

I put a pillow under her belly and mount her legs closed from behind. This feels amazing. She's no longer watching TV but face buried in the pillow gasping and sighing and generally heightening the experience for me. She feels amazing bareback, as always, and I threaten to blow a load a few times. I find if I rear back onto my knees the thrusting sensation is less intense and I can back away from the edge. Then I lean back over and pound another 100 strokes! Damn this is some great fucking.

At some point I find myself overheating from a massive amount of fucking and ask her to come on top. Last few times on top she's done RCG which feels great but I love to see her face. Tonight she mounts up traditional CG face to face. Lovely.

She has an amazing way of riding cowgirl where she puts the tops of her feet on top of your thighs to control the action very precisely. And of late she's been doing this thing we both love where she will very slowly take you all the way to the point of exiting where the tip is barely in and then slowly reinsert all the way deep. And then almost full exit. OMG it's amazing.

Sex kitten that she is she adds soft ball work to this by reaching around with her left hand and softly massaging my balls while she fucks me super slow. OMG. This is just the ticket and I build quite fast. I pull out and I am about to shoot but really don't just want to jack it. I am able to hold onto the shot for about five more seconds as she repositions to take me in her mouth. Good girl! As soon as her lips hit my dick I start firing and drop a good bit of load in her mouth and some on her cheek and some drips down to my tummy. Fuck it was hard to hold that last shot but epic when it came.

She pops up and cleans me up with a warm wash cloth. She always does this and it's so girlfriendy I love it. A bit more Netflix and wind down and off I go. An epic date.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your wiring at all. We've been programmed for millenia to spread our seed. You're never going to beat evolution. The only decision you meet to make is whether you want to "keep your vows" or whatever nonsense you believe in or bang some hot chick who's asking for something tangible in return. I have no issue with that at all, you're two consenting adults. Fuck what anybody else thinks.

I loved my wife, I still love her, and would do anything for her except agreeing to not have sex with other women. I've tried it and it makes me a miserable human being so I don't fight the biological urge anymore. It's moot now because we're divorced. With the exception of one SB I never said nor was it expected that we were exclusive. I was in love with that SB and that one really hurt when it ended. The one I'm with now is a 9 with a model figure, waist is about 3 feet long,. I'm not in live with her and we don't do ask much as I've done with my other SBs but she's working for me and I'm reasonably sure she's happy too.

I will admit that my route caused other problems like I didn't really want to bang the wife as often and that took a toll on the relationship. But nothings perfect when you play this game already attached to someone who probably doesn't know what you're up to.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2878388]Somehow once the dick gets his share, my brain switches off with most girls.

I want the non rushed GFE but the day after is just boring. The two exceptiona are my German and Spain SBs (German 23, Spanish 28) are exceptiona. Even that is only for a day or two. That is why I don't take them on tripa.

The only person I can hangout happily with / without sex is my wife Ironically, I fish outside because fiahing at one place is boring, and then find the new place boring right after I catch the fish that I go back to my fiahing spot.

Something off with the brain wiring.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2878388]The only person I can hangout happily with / without sex is my wife Ironically, I fish outside because fiahing at one place is boring, and then find the new place boring right after I catch the fish that I go back to my fiahing spot.

Something off with the brain wiring.[/QUOTE]Nah, it is normal. See the link: [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolidge_effect[/URL].

The original experiments with rats applied the following protocol: A male rat was placed into an enclosed large box with four or five female rats in heat. He immediately began to mate with all the female rats repeatedly until he eventually became exhausted. The females continued nudging and licking him, yet he did not respond. When a novel female was introduced into the box, he became alert and began to mate once again with the new female.

You see you are normal for a rat. We all are. LOL.

When a novel female was presented, initially, there was a small increase in the levels of dopamine, however, after continued copulation with the novel female, a significant increase in dopamine levels was observed.

Dopamine is powerful stuff. Without it, the zeal for life IMO goes away. Thing is you have cortisol, stress, and regret. Chances are that new hottie is not going to be better in bed than the one you have in hand, and there is stress with performance and getting ripped off and when the big head has to tell the little head who is boss. That is why I tried to have at least 3 SBs in hand while always looking to upgrade. If I rotated three, the dopamine novelty was still there. It was not as high as the first time but there was no boredom with the women.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2878388]Somehow once the dick gets his share, my brain switches off with most girls.

I want the non rushed GFE but the day after is just boring. The two exceptiona are my German and Spain SBs (German 23, Spanish 28) are exceptiona. Even that is only for a day or two. That is why I don't take them on tripa.[/QUOTE]As for trips, the best is if you can get two (or more) women who really like each other mentally and ideally physically and then you will not get bored. It is hard to not get bored if you are with one person the whole time.

More from the link: In an earlier experiment, also conducted by Carr et al. , they found that, unlike male rats, female rats preferred the odor of a familiar partner rather than the odor of a novel partner.

That practically explains it all right?

Thank God we are all so much more advanced than rats. LOL.

Met a very nice girl in the US. What a surprise end to 2023.

Been chatting for a while. She came across as a decent chick. Met for coffee (yes coffee only) and she refused to let me buy her. We bought our own coffees.

The chat was so nice that we ended up spending 2. 5 hours at a coffee shop. Went for a walk, few kisses and that's it. Nothing more.

Then we met again after a week. This time, we met for dinner and then her place.

She is good looking but a bit short in height. Sex was OK, not fabulous.

Will definitely repeat as she has a great attitude and invests in building conmections and is not one of those golden pussies. Her asks are very reasonable. She did tell me she is shy at first and then opens up. So, hoping the sex gets better in 2024.

Looking back, 2023 has been a great year with learnings.

Europe has continued to return on past investments. Couple new Europeam ones picked up including the squirter. But, the top 3 from 2022 remains top three in 2023.

Found a good SB in SFO only to have her ghost me. Found a decent SB in US to do it in the woods but then lost interest. Found the one that negotiated a high amount when I had a bulge in pants (lesson learned. Never negotiate when little man is erect) but she is by far the best looks. Will try her for a lower ppm.

Ended the year with finding a girl with good head on shoulders.

Looking forward to my Europe trips in 2024. Starts with Spain in Feb.

Advance Happy New Year fellow seekers. Have fun, stay safe. Treat them well and make them treat you well. Cheers!

Thanks GFEfsn for the recap. Super excited you have found a new or prospect. My 2023 turned out spectacular as well. A shade fewer girls total than 2022 but still an epic number. But more important some amazing quality.

In my lifetime I have only been with 5 girls who are 9. 5 ers. And two were this year! Gaby at Monte Carlo in Rio and Manuella an SA girl in Rio. Amazing optics. And Manuella was a 9. 5 all around as well.

And somehow magically I scored a 10. Only girl I have ever rated a ten. Absolutely perfect looking in all respects. Rolls out of bed looking like a goddess. An actual ten. And I got to spend three days with her in Athens. A true one for the books.

A pile of amazing hotties in Brazil and Thailand. And some solid stuff in Germany/Spain/Austria as well.

And of course Shayla the home girl is still going strong two years in.

Been quite a year but plan for 2024 to be just as amazing (but without meeting a ten).

And heres the amazing thing. I am not special, maybe a bit better than average looking. And I have money but so do most of us that play the game. But in 2019 I literally had no game. Hadnt been on a date in nearly 40 years! And here I am four years later convincing a ten to go to Athens with me at an insanely low daily rate, plus I have a full time mistress.

This is beyond my wildest dreams. With persistence u will find the gems and bed the gems and get better at it each time. It is absolutely possible for all of us if we put in the effort.

Since others are doing theirs, why not. I'm sure people care about my year right?

The highlights:

Did a girl 3 separate times in Mexico. Longest I ever kept someone. The last time I started to get bored and realized it was the last time. Sad because the first time I thought she was a solid 9. And she is. But familiarity breeds boredom.

Did a girl in OC California. My first black girl. But she was very light skinned like a hotter Rihanna. I kid you not. But then second time she couldn't stay the night so I low balled and never heard from her again. She was 18 and great.

Banged a four foot 6 girl in San Diego. Her breath was bad and she was annoying.

Got taken advantage of by a girl in LA. Scammed me.

Oh actually did a girl in Mexico City for the 3rd time. She is not super hot but she lets me do literally anything and she's a good girl.

Multiple girls in Tijuana. None amazing but so close and so cheap.

Banged a girl in Denver who was a goddamn basket case with daddy issues and wanted to call me daddy.

A crazy year. Some low lights. It ID do it all over again for sure.

Pi reminds me that I did have a couple disappointments and only fair to list those. None were Seeking girls, who uniformly delivered this year (and rare bad experiences in years past).

Bad. Duo at Mystic FKK. They came on strong in the porno room and promised the world. In the room it was tons of restrictions for the most basic stuff. Really bad experience. Managed to get them to work enough to get a shot off but worst experience ever at FKK. Had two other good girls at Mystic.

Bad. Pulled a hottie at Billboard in Bangkok. Got her to the room and she would not BBBJ. She was a real biatch about it and I sent her packing. Unfortunately had paid mamasan ahead. Didn't care about the money but it pissed me off. Went down the street to Kasalong and shot a CIM load with an ugly older lady for $20 or something. Not my finest hour. She was good at her trade tho.

Disappointing. Girl at Casarao in Brazil. AMAZING body. Maybe a 10. But was not doing BBBJ. Got her to do a few licks but that was it and then condom on. Still managed to shoot one she was so hot. Then grabbed a 6. 5 DD girl who promised great BBBJ and she delivered. Over a half hour of BBBJ and then fucking and CIM. A nice recovery.

Disappointing. Cuban duo at Vive Madrid. A bit lazy and tried to call it early. I was having none of their shenanigans and made them work the full time. One of them wasn't so bad. And optics were good all around. Just sharky attitude that kills the mood.

So it's not all roses every day but winning on balance with only 10% in the bad / disappointing column. Not bad.

Midwestern, BlueMoon, DramaFree et al. Do tell. Let's get some more retrospectives in here. I know you are killing it out there!

Year started with a girl I honestly believe to be trophy wife material. Wasn't till it ended did I realize I was in love and the fact she was crying when SHE ended it told me there was something there on her end as well.

Like Steve said previously I like the GFE wining / dining so I'm always looking for a girl up for shows and enough free time to spend at least a long evening if not a whole day or night. Found a girl who was only interested in the deed and 1 or 2 HR short meetings. Despite my criteria her pics were hot as fuck so I figured we'd do the deed until I got bored and move on. Been with her almost as long as my longest seeking relationship, she's since opened up a lot emotionally, and I enjoy the conversations we have now. Still haven't had dinner or anything away from my place but I'm shocked to say it's working for me and I'm content.

Had two losers, one had amazing photos which turned out to be at least 5 years old and was probably the most negative unhappy person I've ever met. Complete waste of my time and the feeling was mutual. Had another girl scam me agreeing to spend the weekend after an amazing first date the night before and some very interesting convo and chemistry. Gave her the money up front because the vibe was so there and mutual and about an hour after climbing into bed (platonically to that point) she gets into a text fight, eye roll, with a friend and wants to be alone. Then doesn't feel well and decides to go home. Honestly I was too pissed to demand the money back but she was a bit of a druggie loser anyway just had that girl next door type I really like so my vision was slightly rose colored.

Only pulled off a couple international trips this year so the results are all local. Keep in mind I'm not sneaking around because I'm divorce and doing whatever whenever at my place is always on the table.

I do owe ya'll a European seeking equivalent experience and I think you won't be disappointed based on the front end work already done. The reality will be a little less exciting, no shows, flakes, etc. All part of this game. Once that all plays out I'll still it all. Happy new year guys, this thread is fun.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2882378]Midwestern, BlueMoon, DramaFree et al. Do tell. Let's get some more retrospectives in here. I know you are killing it out there![/QUOTE]

Hey. I hope everyone is doing good.

I got to say that the first time I heard about the SA movement was around 3 or 4 years ago in this delightful forum.

And after that, I'v been experimenting every time I can in every new city I visit. Mainly in Mexico and USA.

Being an active SA member for around a couple of months every year, allowed me to discover gems and really good experiences with awesome girls and I got to say that time is money is not enough to enjoy all we have in front of us. I really love it, however it's really time consuming when I have the opportunity to try every time.

As you may notice, last year I posted a list of girls in Mexico City that would like to encounter for a short term agreement.

Inside an hotel (if you know what I mean). I also posted prices they may be able to get in exchange of their time. Not the number of personal info, but only the SA member link.

Really Nice! Ha?

I hope that everyone that can share any experience, may have the courtesy to share some general info about girls who would like to meet more gentlemen over here. NOT PERSONAL, but only member link and a reference. Some colleges here doesn't like to share any info at all, only some description about their encounters but not SPECIFIC like allowances, possibilities about the girl and insights (maybe they feel like the lack of exclusivity?, LOL).

I meet with few of them and it was great however, it would be nice to have a little shortcut in order to go directly and realize the real possibilities with girls and of course save time.

Related to other topic: I just found that I love Ugly girls, not exactly with the beauty standard but with a feel of imperfection. It really turns me on.

Got encounters with students, military girl, disabled girl, really fat girl, and so office girls. They sometimes have better time availability and of course: they pamper more that the average.

I hope that everybody have a wonderful new year! And remember: Share more!

Hi everyone!

I am a long time lurker but wanted to share some info about sugar scene in North West UK, and hope it can be helpful to someone!

I currently live and work in Manchester area, and the SA scene here is still affordable and feels very GFEy. If you ever come to UK, ignore London area and move up North. I believe you can have a much nicer experience than sticking to London with its crazy prices.

You can take the late night bus (National Express, Megabus, FlixBus) from London Victoria station for around 35 (return ticket) and in 5 hours you will be in Manchester or Liverpool. You can also take the train (trainpal or trainline are good apps to scout for better prices) from London King's Cross or London Euston for around 80 (return ticket). That will take 2 hours to arrive.

There are numerous universities in this area with fresh first-year students struggling to make ends meet. The costs of living in UK is sky-rocketing, and you can ppm an amazing young British girl for around 150 to 180 in Liverpool, Manchester, Preston, or Blackburn. The thing is, it will not stop there, in even norther cities such as Leeds and York you will find even more fresh students waiting to be lucky and find an arrangement. If you are into quality young white "western"-type girls and have a bit of patience, North of UK is a bargain.

They will usually quote you around 200 per meet, but will honestly not turn down your offer if you are here, serious, and can invite them to a nice dinner tomorrow evening. Before pandemic, you could find SBs for around 130 per meet, but I think 150 is now the minimum.

Beside SA, there are other venues where you can meet British SBs in northern areas. Search for an iPhone / android "language app" (for example hellotalk, but there are many) where you can sign up to learn languages. Many young girls on those apps are "looking for friends" type and open to meetups and dates. Message them, if you feel there is a vibe, move them to WhatsApp / Messenger.

Overall I think it's worth the experience if you are here and looking for young GF type girls. Just don't waste your time and money in London.

Sorry the prices in my previous comments were all in GBP!

[QUOTE=Toni36;2884068]Hi everyone!

I am a long time lurker but wanted to share some info about sugar scene in North West UK, and hope it can be helpful to someone!

I currently live and work in Manchester area, and the SA scene here is still affordable and feels very GFEy. If you ever come to UK, ignore London area and move up North. I believe you can have a much nicer experience than sticking to London with its crazy prices.

You can take the late night bus (National Express, Megabus, FlixBus) from London Victoria station for around 35 (return ticket) and in 5 hours you will be in Manchester or Liverpool. You can also take the train (trainpal or trainline are good apps to scout for better prices) from London King's Cross or London Euston for around 80 (return ticket). That will take 2 hours to arrive.

There are numerous universities in this area with fresh first-year students struggling to make ends meet. The costs of living in UK is sky-rocketing, and you can ppm an amazing young British girl for around 150 to 180 in Liverpool, Manchester, Preston, or Blackburn. The thing is, it will not stop there, in even norther cities such as Leeds and York you will find even more fresh students waiting to be lucky and find an arrangement. If you are into quality young white "western"-type girls and have a bit of patience, North of UK is a bargain.

They will usually quote you around 200 per meet, but will honestly not turn down your offer if you are here, serious, and can invite them to a nice dinner tomorrow evening. Before pandemic, you could find SBs for around 130 per meet, but I think 150 is now the minimum.

Beside SA, there are other venues where you can meet British SBs in northern areas. Search for an iPhone / android "language app" (for example hellotalk, but there are many) where you can sign up to learn languages. Many young girls on those apps are "looking for friends" type and open to meetups and dates. Message them, if you feel there is a vibe, move them to WhatsApp / Messenger.

Overall I think it's worth the experience if you are here and looking for young GF type girls. Just don't waste your time and money in London.[/QUOTE]Thanks. And thanks to the other lurkers now posting. This is valuable stuff. I am often in northern England and never saw anything satisfactory as far as escorts and wondered if SA was a good play. And voila. Now i know. Thanks!

I hear your reasoning. Makes sense from a certain PoV.

Here is a different PoV.

The whole sharing more is ok has a premise that these girls are "tradeable" and / or are in a business looking for more customers.

What if I feel like she is my friend (albeit in a fantasy world where I take break from my real world)? The moment I have a GFE experience, and the girl is non-transactional, I have a certain relation with her which I cherish and keep intact. I can't share my "friends". No?

Likewise, if she is a non-transactional lady, she is not looking for more "customers". So, she may not apprciate me sharing her details. No?

I will definitely not share my top 3 who are creme-de-la-creme. They are my friends with whom I happen to have sex. That equation is not up for trade.

There are these mid-range, on the fringe girls who are really nice to me but I am giving it time to see if they go on to become friends. So, I am on the fence.

Then, there are these golden / platinum pussies who I will never ever meet again and / or want to do anything with them. I don't want to be "transactional" doing tit for tat but I will not be against sharing them like poker chips. But, I don't think that share is going to help anyone in this forum because those are what I call "bad experiences" and I don't want to pass it to you guys.

TL: DR: sharing or not is a personal perspective. I have shared some to some of you who have reached out on I'm. I understand some of them were struggling to break in. I empathize with that because I went through the exact same. Seniors like Steve and Midwestern helped me providing do's and don'ts but we never asked for / gave girls. They taught me to fish rather than give me A fish. To me, that is much worthier than contacts.

[QUOTE=Simplii;2883908]Hey. I hope everyone is doing good.

I got to say that the first time I heard about the SA movement was around 3 or 4 years ago in this delightful forum.

And after that, I'v been experimenting every time I can in every new city I visit. Mainly in Mexico and USA.

Being an active SA member for around a couple of months every year, allowed me to discover gems and really good experiences with awesome girls and I got to say that time is money is not enough to enjoy all we have in front of us. I really love it, however it's really time consuming when I have the opportunity to try every time.

As you may notice, last year I posted a list of girls in Mexico City that would like to encounter for a short term agreement.

Inside an hotel (if you know what I mean). I also posted prices they may be able to get in exchange of their time. Not the number of personal info, but only the SA member link.

Really Nice! Ha?

I hope that everyone that can share any experience, may have the courtesy to share some general info about girls who would like to meet more gentlemen over here. NOT PERSONAL, but only member link and a reference. Some colleges here doesn't like to share any info at all, only some description about their encounters but not SPECIFIC like allowances, possibilities about the girl and insights (maybe they feel like the lack of exclusivity?, LOL).

I meet with few of them and it was great however, it would be nice to have a little shortcut in order to go directly and realize the real possibilities with girls and of course save time.

Related to other topic: I just found that I love Ugly girls, not exactly with the beauty standard but with a feel of imperfection. It really turns me on.

Got encounters with students, military girl, disabled girl, really fat girl, and so office girls. They sometimes have better time availability and of course: they pamper more that the average.

I hope that everybody have a wonderful new year! And remember: Share more![/QUOTE]

I'd never provide details of a girl to anyone for anything. If she's looking she'll find what she wants. She doesn't need or want my help. IMO trading info is really disrespectful unless they ask me to and that conversation has never occurred, ever. The simple fact of the matter is they have tons of options and me handing their info to some anonymous person on the web is beyond sleezy. Kick away soapbox.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2884305]I hear your reasoning. Makes sense from a certain PoV.

Here is a different PoV.

The whole sharing more is ok has a premise that these girls are "tradeable" and / or are in a business looking for more customers.

What if I feel like she is my friend (albeit in a fantasy world where I take break from my real world)? The moment I have a GFE experience, and the girl is non-transactional, I have a certain relation with her which I cherish and keep intact. I can't share my "friends". No?

Likewise, if she is a non-transactional lady, she is not looking for more "customers". So, she may not apprciate me sharing her details. No?

I will definitely not share my top 3 who are creme-de-la-creme. They are my friends with whom I happen to have sex. That equation is not up for trade.

There are these mid-range, on the fringe girls who are really nice to me but I am giving it time to see if they go on to become friends. So, I am on the fence.

Then, there are these golden / platinum pussies who I will never ever meet again and / or want to do anything with them. I don't want to be "transactional" doing tit for tat but I will not be against sharing them like poker chips. But, I don't think that share is going to help anyone in this forum because those are what I call "bad experiences" and I don't want to pass it to you guys.

TL: DR: sharing or not is a personal perspective. I have shared some to some of you who have reached out on I'm. I understand some of them were struggling to break in. I empathize with that because I went through the exact same. Seniors like Steve and Midwestern helped me providing do's and don'ts but we never asked for / gave girls. They taught me to fish rather than give me A fish. To me, that is much worthier than contacts.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2884305]I hear your reasoning. Makes sense from a certain PoV.

Here is a different PoV.

The whole sharing more is ok has a premise that these girls are "tradeable" and / or are in a business looking for more customers.

What if I feel like she is my friend (albeit in a fantasy world where I take break from my real world)? The moment I have a GFE experience, and the girl is non-transactional, I have a certain relation with her which I cherish and keep intact. I can't share my "friends". No?

Likewise, if she is a non-transactional lady, she is not looking for more "customers". So, she may not apprciate me sharing her details. No?

I will definitely not share my top 3 who are creme-de-la-creme. They are my friends with whom I happen to have sex. That equation is not up for trade.

There are these mid-range, on the fringe girls who are really nice to me but I am giving it time to see if they go on to become friends. So, I am on the fence.

Then, there are these golden / platinum pussies who I will never ever meet again and / or want to do anything with them. I don't want to be "transactional" doing tit for tat but I will not be against sharing them like poker chips. But, I don't think that share is going to help anyone in this forum because those are what I call "bad experiences" and I don't want to pass it to you guys.

TL: DR: sharing or not is a personal perspective. I have shared some to some of you who have reached out on I'm. I understand some of them were struggling to break in. I empathize with that because I went through the exact same. Seniors like Steve and Midwestern helped me providing do's and don'ts but we never asked for / gave girls. They taught me to fish rather than give me A fish. To me, that is much worthier than contacts.[/QUOTE]Yeah this is definitely the page I am on. Any girl I really click with on SA becomes a personal relationship. All the doubters will now flame me, but they will be wrong when I say — we actually like each other! Others like GFE Fan and clearly Filthy Beaver after recent post know that it's true. You have a relationship. Yea it's non traditional but it's a form of a relationship and in some ways better than a real girlfriend.

Now Shayla is unusual having been together so long and I am not talking about that level generally. But even Shayla completely understands her role. The other night she was not feeling well. Sort of a headache earache thing. And yet she gave me the most amazing 20 minute BJ prior to some epic sex and CIP. And I know 100% if we had a true GF relationship she woulda said "not tonight honey". But she didn't. She knows the deal. And so this relationship is as I say honestly BETTER than a GF.

Back to sharing contacts which I am not generally fond of for the reasons above. On the one occasion I steered a friend in the right direction to find a favorite girl (did not give her info just some general guidance how to find her.) I wish I hadn't. It kinda hurt knowing he had her the same way as me and pics of them together. Now it's not this way wih pros. Just found out BlueMoon fucked the same hottie as me at Mystic FKK. No big deal. It's different with an SA girl that you connect with tho because it's more than sex.

At least for me.

Probably one of the most useful posts I've seen here in a while. You've just inspired me to head to NW England! Nothing sexier than an English accent. Attached to a 20 yr old college girl that gives my slav fetish a serious run for my money.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2884303]Thanks. And thanks to the other lurkers now posting. This is valuable stuff. I am often in northern England and never saw anything satisfactory as far as escorts and wondered if SA was a good play. And voila. Now i know. Thanks![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2884303]Thanks. And thanks to the other lurkers now posting. This is valuable stuff. I am often in northern England and never saw anything satisfactory as far as escorts and wondered if SA was a good play. And voila. Now i know. Thanks![/QUOTE]Hi Steve! Glad this was useful to you and yep definitely try the north west UK. I also had success finding student-type girls with sugardaddymeet (SDM) app. There are both girls that quote you a number and a lot of new girls who will not directly bring up the money subject, although they are sure there will be sex and they will be paid.

Most rich British daddies are concentrated around London, which makes this area really untapped. But as you always mention, it is like a relationship, albeit a sugary one. The more you treat a SB with respect and friendliness, the sweeter the experience will be.

Based on what I'm saying, it's probably not a place I would look at. Let me explain why. But I totally respect that you're having a great experience there.

The way I suss out a city is I go into the seeking app, set my target age range (18-21) , set the number of profiles per page to 60, and then I see how many pages are filled up by people who have visited in the last couple of days. In other words, not old profiles, or inactive ones.

When you do this in London, you get at least a couple of pages. Meaning, there is a high concentration of sugar.

I just tried this for Manchester. Not even a half page. Meaning you've got to go older or less selective to get enough girls actually on the app to find someone. When I've done cities like this, I find that I have to gradually loosen my criteria to get enough responses to have something to work with. It's not super fun that way. For me at least.

[QUOTE=Toni36;2884068]Hi everyone!

I am a long time lurker but wanted to share some info about sugar scene in North West UK, and hope it can be helpful to someone!

I currently live and work in Manchester area, and the SA scene here is still affordable and feels very GFEy. If you ever come to UK, ignore London area and move up North. I believe you can have a much nicer experience than sticking to London with its crazy prices.

You can take the late night bus (National Express, Megabus, FlixBus) from London Victoria station for around 35 (return ticket) and in 5 hours you will be in Manchester or Liverpool. You can also take the train (trainpal or trainline are good apps to scout for better prices) from London King's Cross or London Euston for around 80 (return ticket). That will take 2 hours to arrive..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2884350]Probably one of the most useful posts I've seen here in a while. You've just inspired me to head to NW England! Nothing sexier than an English accent. Attached to a 20 yr old college girl that gives my slav fetish a serious run for my money.[/QUOTE]I am humbled by your nice words. Agreed on the sexiness of a short British girl's accent! There are a lot of pro and semi-pro girls on SA, but if you filter on young girls with no makeup and with amateurish photos, there is still a big selection available.

I mentioned the language apps where you can find POT SBs. There are also other apps where it is possible to hunt for fresh girls. Install a 2nd-hand clothes & fashion app like Depop, Vinted, or Poshmark. Girls sell their old clothes on those apps. Many girls mention "open to decent offers" in their bio. You can't offer these girls straight-up money for sex and need to employ some level of game / rapport. But many of them are very open to an arrangement. I invited a Newcastle girl from one of those apps to dinner to talk about "investing in her business" and it didn't take more than a couple of dates before she wanted to come back to my hotel room. As long as one is not creepy and the communication happens outside the platform on WhatsApp / Messenger / text, there is so much to hunt for.

Also University of Manchester offers (paid) evening courses for general public. Once enrolled, you are entitled to a student card which will open a whole new world to you full of fresh students. You can access university libraries and restaurants / bars. Again some small level of game is required here, but as long as one is not a creep, it's possible to meet young girls.

I think this formula might work from anywhere. Find a desolated town with university presence, and parachute yourself there!

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2884502]Based on what I'm saying, it's probably not a place I would look at. Let me explain why. But I totally respect that you're having a great experience there.

The way I suss out a city is I go into the seeking app, set my target age range (18-21) , set the number of profiles per page to 60, and then I see how many pages are filled up by people who have visited in the last couple of days. In other words, not old profiles, or inactive ones.

When you do this in London, you get at least a couple of pages. Meaning, there is a high concentration of sugar.

I just tried this for Manchester. Not even a half page. Meaning you've got to go older or less selective to get enough girls actually on the app to find someone. When I've done cities like this, I find that I have to gradually loosen my criteria to get enough responses to have something to work with. It's not super fun that way. For me at least.[/QUOTE]What "distance" have you chosen for your search criteria? If I set the distance to 70 km, which will cover Manchester, Liverpool, and surroundings, I get 3 pages of girls logging into the site in the last couple of days.

But I agree that this is not comparable with London specially with the colder weather. The other thing is that SA is not the only venue for meeting university girls. I mentioned a couple of other ways to meet these girls which also wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.

I've found some of the best girls snipe, they don't want their faces seen, don't want a profile any jerk can see so they make their profiles unreachable and find me if my profile piques their interest, I do write more than most and I've gotten a lot of positive feedback in the past from it. We've had the discussion about showing pics. I don't have an issue, especially in a foreign country so you need the set the bait and see what happens. My search criteria isn't quite as narrow as yours but I'm guessing results are about the same because I definitely take race, smoking, & other stuff into account.

Still working on my gold bikini club account in poland and it's turned into a bit of a sociological experiment but the data will be applicable to this site too. I used to think I was obsessed with how sex is sold all over the world but I think I've evolved into a bit of a sociologist obsessed with the sexual motivations of girls younger than 30.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2884502]Based on what I'm saying, it's probably not a place I would look at. Let me explain why. But I totally respect that you're having a great experience there.

The way I suss out a city is I go into the seeking app, set my target age range (18-21) , set the number of profiles per page to 60, and then I see how many pages are filled up by people who have visited in the last couple of days. In other words, not old profiles, or inactive ones.

When you do this in London, you get at least a couple of pages. Meaning, there is a high concentration of sugar.

I just tried this for Manchester. Not even a half page. Meaning you've got to go older or less selective to get enough girls actually on the app to find someone. When I've done cities like this, I find that I have to gradually loosen my criteria to get enough responses to have something to work with. It's not super fun that way. For me at least.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Toni36;2884068]Hi everyone!

I am a long time lurker but wanted to share some info about sugar scene in North West UK, and hope it can be helpful to someone!

I currently live and work in Manchester area, and the SA scene here is still affordable and feels very GFEy. If you ever come to UK, ignore London area and move up North. I believe you can have a much nicer experience than sticking to London with its crazy prices.

You can take the late night bus (National Express, Megabus, FlixBus) from London Victoria station for around 35 (return ticket) and in 5 hours you will be in Manchester or Liverpool. You can also take the train (trainpal or trainline are good apps to scout for better prices) from London King's Cross or London Euston for around 80 (return ticket). That will take 2 hours to arrive.

There are numerous universities in this area with fresh first-year students struggling to make ends meet. The costs of living in UK is sky-rocketing, and you can ppm an amazing young British girl for around 150 to 180 in Liverpool, Manchester, Preston, or Blackburn. The thing is, it will not stop there, in even norther cities such as Leeds and York you will find even more fresh students waiting to be lucky and find an arrangement. If you are into quality young white "western"-type girls and have a bit of patience, North of UK is a bargain.

They will usually quote you around 200 per meet, but will honestly not turn down your offer if you are here, serious, and can invite them to a nice dinner tomorrow evening. Before pandemic, you could find SBs for around 130 per meet, but I think 150 is now the minimum.

Beside SA, there are other venues where you can meet British SBs in northern areas. Search for an iPhone / android "language app" (for example hellotalk, but there are many) where you can sign up to learn languages. Many young girls on those apps are "looking for friends" type and open to meetups and dates. Message them, if you feel there is a vibe, move them to WhatsApp / Messenger.

Overall I think it's worth the experience if you are here and looking for young GF type girls. Just don't waste your time and money in London.[/QUOTE]Also based in a Northern Uni town, and whilst on paper and in theory, the situation you describe should exist, and it should be a land of milk and honey, that has not been my experience, for me at least.

Most active profiles I see here are older pro types and single "council estate" mums. The girl next door, student types seem to not log on very often, and almost always have delusional expectations of 'online' relationships and sending nudes for cash. I have had plenty of successful experiences on Seeking in other countries, but that has been my experience in trying with the student types in northern towns. I do think it's also down to a more puritanical view of sex for money in the UK, as compared to Latinas or Eastern Europeans.

The other methods you describe sound quite interesting, however I do feel like in a society like the UK, things can go a bit awry and one can be exposed as a very creepy type at the least, and much worse, as compared to Seeking where it's a proper platform for such and girls on there know what they're signing up for in a sense.

Just my thoughts, but curious to hear some discussion and feedback on this.

With the few experiences that I have had though, British SB's in the northern towns seem way too casual about barebacking, condom usage doesn't seem to exist, which puts me off a bit and makes me suss the girl out more before proceeding.

There is chemistry & game involved. I don't know how else to put it. You take a shot in the dark, you have a chat, and if that chat grows into something more interesting you've sunk the hook. It's a complete mystery and wonder of life. I've had the chemistry with girls that don't speak a word of English (and I don't speak their language either, thank you google) and I've had it with girls that I wouldn't, in my wildest dreams, would have thought they'd ever be interested; money involved or not. If they're interested they'll come to you and let you know it.

Frankly the ones that casually log on and don't check their messages daily are the ones I'm after so it also takes patience. Now that I think about it, that's probably why this site works for many of us. We've traded youth and impatience for experience, money and patience. Not sure it's an even trade but it's not like we had much of a choice either.

[QUOTE=Jbob084;2884772]Also based in a Northern Uni town, and whilst on paper and in theory, the situation you describe should exist, and it should be a land of milk and honey, that has not been my experience, for me at least.

Most active profiles I see here are older pro types and single "council estate" mums. The girl next door, student types seem to not log on very often, and almost always have delusional expectations of 'online' relationships and sending nudes for cash. I have had plenty of successful experiences on Seeking in other countries, but that has been my experience in trying with the student types in northern towns. I do think it's also down to a more puritanical view of sex for money in the UK, as compared to Latinas or Eastern Europeans.

The other methods you describe sound quite interesting, however I do feel like in a society like the UK, things can go a bit awry and one can be exposed as a very creepy type at the least, and much worse, as compared to Seeking where it's a proper platform for such and girls on there know what they're signing up for in a sense.

Just my thoughts, but curious to hear some discussion and feedback on this.

With the few experiences that I have had though, British SB's in the northern towns seem way too casual about barebacking, condom usage doesn't seem to exist, which puts me off a bit and makes me suss the girl out more before proceeding.[/QUOTE]

Someone linked a blog entry in the Bogota forum about a guy playing the role of Captain savaho, [URL]https://inlovelyblue.com/dating-a-venezuelan-prostitute-from-santa-fe-bogota/[/URL].

I mentioned that the woman was certain to be a lousy long term partner being an escort and being Venezuelan where anyone who thought long term in that country got burned.

In the blog post, there was this, The Uber arrived at her 'home' and she typed a message on my phones translator before quickly trying to get it back and delete the message, so I couldn't read it. It was asking for money because she hadn't worked that day and she sends her earnings home to Venezuela, for her family. It was pocket change to me and I chased her as she leapt out of the Uber to gladly give it to her.

I also made the comment that this woman was not looking at this guy as an ATM, and he made a big mistake volunteering to be one. I thought his chance of success was poor. Johnniecash had this response.

[QUOTE=JohnnieCash;2884781]but I know some that do think long term, even the street hookers, eg they are regularly exchanging up money to usd and saving that up to buy a house in Venezuela, or another that has a child and invests in his education, taking him up to various extra classes etc. Some, as they approach their 30's and see reduced income enroll in classes then, to try be veterinarians, nurses etc.[/QUOTE]Johnnie, it sounds like you have heard hookers talking long term, but some of the stuff you mention like classes or buying a house, you did not personally see right? I had been in the sugar game a long time, and in the forums everywhere, you will see guys say that turning a stripper / hooker into a long term sugar baby let alone a GF is a losing proposition. Getting them gifts, like this guy did, will not be appreciated unlike with real sugar babies or a GF.

The one successful hooker I knew personally who got out of the biz and ran her own business really was not independent. She had a sugar daddy on the side.

Thing is when I mentioned looking for long term, I was actually thinking this gal was a bad long term partner more because she was Venezuelan than a hooker. The hooker part for me was a given, but your post made me want to look more into the why hookers are bad long term partners.

There was a fascinating video on youtube of a guy who ran a brothel: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9kQuy90OGM[/URL].

I found the guy to be honest, logical, and a straight shooter. He only hired woman new to the business and only kept them in the business for a year. In his book, he described successful hookers who were millionaires but were so addicted to money they could not leave the business even in their 50's.

Then there was this from a woman who really was a hooker. Granted, she had an agenda. [URL]https://psyche.co/ideas/the-reality-of-prostitution-is-not-complex-it-is-simple[/URL].

Prostitution is not sex and it's not work. Its reality is far from complex in fact, it's simple. Trust me, I've done it. The truth is, there was no 'work' involved in what was done to us in prostitution. Prostitution is neither sex nor work.

During my last 10 years campaigning, I have sometimes been asked by women what prostitution 'feels like'. I hit on a way of explaining this some years ago, and have repeated it a few times since. I invite them, the next time they are in a caf or a bar, to take a look around at the male patrons. Old, young, fat, thin, tall, short, handsome, ugly, beautiful, repulsive and imagine that they are obliged to have sex with them. All of them. The women's faces turn to horror because they don't need to imagine; they know full well that they'd have no interest in sleeping with whoever happens to walk through the door. At the most basic level, having our personal space breached by a stranger causes a stress reaction. Sex does not just involve mutuality; it necessitates it. The sex of prostitution is devoid of mutuality, and cash is introduced to fill the breach.

The brothel operator said the same thing: And one year is the time limit where it is not enough time to damage you psychologically for good, you can still reverse the damage, however, you run the risk of irreversible psychological damage if you stayed in this business longer than one year. Making big money is addicting, you do not want to fall into the trap of getting used to making this type of money.

I had never thought of a hooker as damaged goods. That sounds a little judgmental to me, but I found it interesting that both of these two people mentioned it.

I wish I could I say that I went the sugar route because I was concerned for the damage being done to women. There were two main drivers for me. The first and morally worse reason was the sex was better. The other was the feeling of emptiness after paying the hooker and having her leave. Even the rare times when you had this passionate intimate experience, it was like the women put back up this wall and said this was all about the money. I did not feel that emptiness with a sugar baby. With sugar babies, the women were in no hurry to leave, and I did not want them to go.

People make fun of sugaring versus seeing a hooker. They say it is the same thing, sex for money, but I knew it was different. That mutuality the former hooker talks about is intact in a sugar relationship whereas it is not with hookers. I read in a different book that women who are mistresses of married men look for the same qualities in the married man that they do in a partner. So while there is sex for money, like sugaring, it is not all sex for money, and that prevents or more likely lessens the damage.

Anyway, Johnnie, thanks for the post. It made me think, and I wanted clarity on this subject.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2885047]...The brothel operator said the same thing: And one year is the time limit where it is not enough time to damage you psychologically for good,....[/QUOTE]It depends but what I know about is that it can happen very quickly in the first few weeks. Especially when she is new and popular, then the girl is more likely to crash and burn that goes from great review to starfish. When she is new and popular, she is going to get booked full everyday and she may not be able to take it and eventually totally gives up. She can't get out because she may owe debt to people who pay and organize her travel and lodging expenses.

In the same context, if the girl is able to survive. Once she pays the debt and fulfills her 1 year contract, she would be able to become independent and many can make more money and choose to stay in the business and still have a healthy life style.

My friend bailed out a proustite and gave her enough money so she is set for life. My friend did it for free. He does not even want to visit the girl and expecting nothing in return because that is how I would do it and he knows. I told this event in more detail somewhere else here.

Where are the best spots in Asia for seeking? I am going to leave soon for a 2 month trip. I plan on backpacking around and I want to bang as many girls as possible. I am planning on going to your typical Bangkok and Pattaya but I am wondering if there are good cities in Asia for seeking similar to Medellin and CDMX. Or maybe its just bar girls / tinder? I am not sure.

Has anybody used SA in Argentina?

[QUOTE=Clone8884;2885226]Where are the best spots in Asia for seeking? I am going to leave soon for a 2 month trip. I plan on backpacking around and I want to bang as many girls as possible. I am planning on going to your typical Bangkok and Pattaya but I am wondering if there are good cities in Asia for seeking similar to Medellin and CDMX. Or maybe its just bar girls / tinder? I am not sure.[/QUOTE]I tend to find that cities with strong semi-legal paid sex scenes are not the best for Seeking. In other words in Bangkok and Pattaya you are prob better off with the gogos and bar girls. And it's soo fun. You can have dinner and go to the hotel pretty much anywhere in the world. But not so many places have gogo girls in stripper heels with a number pinned to their chest and you point and shoot. So when in Bangkok do Bangkok is my advice.

But if you find urself in a larger city where it's tough for a white dude to crack the paid sex nut I would think Seeking would be good. So I would guess Seoul and Taipei for example have strong Seeking presence. (Speculation based on other parts of the world). But there are exceptions. Like Madrid has great sex scene and great seeking.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2885460]I tend to find that cities with strong semi-legal paid sex scenes are not the best for Seeking. In other words in Bangkok and Pattaya you are prob better off with the gogos and bar girls. And it's soo fun. You can have dinner and go to the hotel pretty much anywhere in the world. But not so many places have gogo girls in stripper heels with a number pinned to their chest and you point and shoot. So when in Bangkok do Bangkok is my advice.

But if you find urself in a larger city where it's tough for a white dude to crack the paid sex nut I would think Seeking would be good. So I would guess Seoul and Taipei for example have strong Seeking presence. (Speculation based on other parts of the world). But there are exceptions. Like Madrid has great sex scene and great seeking.[/QUOTE]Also a good proxy for size of seeking population is size of overall population.

I've seeked in many cities. Yes some cities overindex on sugar. Of course. But as a general rule the larger the city the larger the pot of seeking girls.

That's why cdmx London nyc and the like are so good. Like in Mexico City, where they have 20 million people, of course there's going to be a large population of sugar on tap.

In some eastern European cities, where there are like a half million people, there might be a higher per capita rate of sugar, but it's still a small absolute number.

[QUOTE=Jbob084;2884772]The girl next door, student types seem to not log on very often, and almost always have delusional expectations of 'online' relationships and sending nudes for cash.[/QUOTE]I saw one recently who wants somebody who will pay all of her bills so that she can focus on being "her best and most beautiful self". No strings attached. Basically, she's looking for some sucker to pay all of her expenses while getting away as much as possible with doing whatever the hell she wants to. Of course, it was one in her early 20's who has yet to learn how the world really works. I can assure her it's not like that! Somebody who is paying all of her bills is going to have some expectations of her requiring a connection / obligation stronger than "no strings attached". And if they say they don't, then they're going to be lying to both her and themselves. Pending train wreck in motion.

With a massive currency deval recently seems like it'd be an excellent place for a monger of any kind.

[QUOTE=ILolatu69;2885446]Has anybody used SA in Argentina?[/QUOTE]

I'm sure we've all got some stories but I'm exceptionally proud of this one.

Girl from 100 mi away asks me to uber her to my city to meet at a very specific restaurant downtown. I did not contact her and I don't even look at profiles outside of my city unless I'm planning to go to them.

Me: No but I'll send my helicopter for you, what building can you get to the top of?

Her: I don't want to take a helicopter, uber is better.

Me: I'm not paying for an uber because I'm not using my helicopter and my pilot is just sitting around smoking weed. I'm paying him to do nothing already.

Her: I'm not taking your helicopter, you're crazy.

I don't consider myself a misogynist by any stretch of the imagination but that was one. Dumb. *****. I'm the crazy one, yeah.

Also had from out of the country say she always loved my city and ask me very seriously in her very first message if I'd rent her an apartment. Didn't even know what to say to that one.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2885603]I saw one recently who wants somebody who will pay all of her bills so that she can focus on being "her best and most beautiful self". No strings attached. Basically, she's looking for some sucker to pay all of her expenses while getting away as much as possible with doing whatever the hell she wants to. Of course, it was one in her early 20's who has yet to learn how the world really works. I can assure her it's not like that! Somebody who is paying all of her bills is going to have some expectations of her requiring a connection / obligation stronger than "no strings attached". And if they say they don't, then they're going to be lying to both her and themselves. Pending train wreck in motion.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2885610]I'm sure we've all got some stories but I'm exceptionally proud of this one.

Girl from 100 mi away asks me to uber her to my city to meet at a very specific restaurant downtown. I did not contact her and I don't even look at profiles outside of my city unless I'm planning to go to them.

Me: No but I'll send my helicopter for you, what building can you get to the top of?

Her: I don't want to take a helicopter, uber is better.

Me: I'm not paying for an uber because I'm not using my helicopter and my pilot is just sitting around smoking weed. I'm paying him to do nothing already.

Her: I'm not taking your helicopter, you're crazy.

I don't consider myself a misogynist by any stretch of the imagination but that was one. Dumb. *****. I'm the crazy one, yeah.

Also had from out of the country say she always loved my city and ask me very seriously in her very first message if I'd rent her an apartment. Didn't even know what to say to that one.[/QUOTE]This story makes AmericanPi smile.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2885896]This story makes AmericanPi smile.[/QUOTE]+1. LOL. Good one FB.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2885607]With a massive currency deval recently seems like it'd be an excellent place for a monger of any kind.[/QUOTE]I have done Buenos Aires Seeking three times. All were great. It's not cheap $200-300. But OMG very hot girls and good English.

[QUOTE=Jbob084;2884772]Also based in a Northern Uni town, and whilst on paper and in theory, the situation you describe should exist, and it should be a land of milk and honey, that has not been my experience, for me at least.[/QUOTE]I am originally from a south European country and working here, great to see another northern UK based fellow here!

[QUOTE]Most active profiles I see here are older pro types and single "council estate" mums. The girl next door, student types seem to not log on very often, and almost always have delusional expectations of 'online' relationships and sending nudes for cash. I have had plenty of successful experiences on Seeking in other countries, but that has been my experience in trying with the student types in northern towns. I do think it's also down to a more puritanical view of sex for money in the UK, as compared to Latinas or Eastern Europeans.[/QUOTE]The Seeking website has gone really bad through the years, both for SDs and for SBs.

As with every other location, a new generation of pros and semi-pros have found sugaring to be just another way to do the sex work. On top of that, platonic, online-only, and platonic online-only girls have watched too much TikTok videos made by prostitutes claiming girls can take out money from unsuspecting men on sugaring websites by just talking to them and sending them nude photos. This makes it very difficult and frustrating for men to find quality girls.

On the other hand, a gigantic army of hard-core mongers have been looking at sugaring just as a way to have one night stands, and this has naturally affected the nature and the quality of the girls. Finding a "real sugar daddy" is impossibly hard for these girls. Hence they have adjusted their expectations to match what the majority of men want on SA: point and shoot quickies.

But the concept of sugaring goes beyond contacting a girl for only sex. The notion of a mature man who is offering to financially and emotionally support a young girl in exchange for companionship and intimacy is very assuring for both of them, specially for the girl. There needs to be a special connection between them, just like a romantic relationship. That is the reason I believe limiting yourself to SA is not enough.

[QUOTE]The other methods you describe sound quite interesting, however I do feel like in a society like the UK, things can go a bit awry and one can be exposed as a very creepy type at the least, and much worse, as compared to Seeking where it's a proper platform for such and girls on there know what they're signing up for in a sense.[/QUOTE]I do understand what you are saying, but there is a large percentage of girls that are attracted to older men without being exposed to the concept of sugar dating. Many girls find it self-approving and pleasant to be approached by older men. You might spark the same feeling in them as their uncle or dad. So just the fact that a girl is not on SA does not mean she would not be open to go on a dinner date with you. And honestly that is all I am looking for. I go as fast as a turtle because you need to cultivate the idea of sugaring in their brain and it takes some time.

If you look at sugaring as a type of relationship with a rare gem you have found, every moment of our day will be a hunting ground for finding such a treasure! But there is no need to get creepy. You can feel a girl's aurora from miles away. If I see they are not interested, I will never press on.

[QUOTE]Just my thoughts, but curious to hear some discussion and feedback on this.[/QUOTE]Yeah me too! It's very interesting to hear your experience and I can understand where you came from.

[QUOTE]With the few experiences that I have had though, British SB's in the northern towns seem way too casual about barebacking, condom usage doesn't seem to exist, which puts me off a bit and makes me suss the girl out more before proceeding.[/QUOTE]True, it's similar to the Philippines. I always use condom until I know the girl enough to decide otherwise.

I recently noticed that although I am selective in girls I reach out to, I notice that if the girl has a picture reading a book, I inevitably reach out. Funnily, my top 3 SBs (my favorites all time) all have such a pic. Weird I picked myself on this pattern just now. Maybe, I have a book fetish.

On the contrary, I see myself not reaching out if the girls have only selfies. And a definite no even if one of that pic is in a toilet / washroom and no effort to crop it out.

I am not discriminatory at all. I am friendly to all communities although my sexual preferences are typically white / Caucasians.

Of late, I have this lady chatting me up. She is super nice, friendly, and we have an organic chat going on. She is a transwoman.

I have never been in that kind of dynamic before. Dragging my feet on meeting her.

What are your thoughts / tips? Should I meet? If I do, should I keep it a dinner only or take her to room?

My worst fear is that I am treading into unknown and I don't want to do something stupid that I end up offending a nice person. If nothing, she and I can be friends, I guess.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2886961]I am not discriminatory at all. I am friendly to all communities although my sexual preferences are typically white / Caucasians.

Of late, I have this lady chatting me up. She is super nice, friendly, and we have an organic chat going on. She is a transwoman.

I have never been in that kind of dynamic before. Dragging my feet on meeting her.

What are your thoughts / tips? Should I meet? If I do, should I keep it a dinner only or take her to room?

My worst fear is that I am treading into unknown and I don't want to do something stupid that I end up offending a nice person. If nothing, she and I can be friends, I guess.[/QUOTE]FYI there is an ISG prohibition about discussing trans people. I can't recall the specifics but I've seen reports pulled as a result.

That said my concern would be setting the wrong expectations. If your OK going with a pre op — that's cool no judgment. But I don't think I would move to dinner etc unless you are. It's just going to be an expectations mismatch. So I'the say unless you are comfortable having sex w this person then cut it back to platonic clearly ASAP. So as to not disappoint them.

I was chatting w Blue Moon and he almost always discusses amount of time they will spend together. Like gets a different price for 4-5 hours vs overnight. Obviously in Bangkok or the like there is the ST or LT thing. But with Seeking I never discuss amount of time (we'll I prob have 5-10% if the time). Personally I love this. It's prob less than 50% of the time but def more than 10% that a girl chooses to stay over. And of course it's the same $300-500 or whatever regardless.

I find that soooo satisfying. To know that she's there because she wants to be — not because I'm paying her. What about you? You discuss hours? Evening vs overnight? What's your normal modus operandi?

SA / Seeking was great 5-10 years ago, I got laid so much and often for free. Especially in London. It is now horrible, scammer and a mix of frustrated sb's and escorts.

Glambu I used extensively in south america over the past 12 months, especially in Argentina. And now the app appears to have shut down.

I wonder what is next big thing.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2885962]I have done Buenos Aires Seeking three times. All were great. It's not cheap $200-300. But OMG very hot girls and good English.[/QUOTE]I have had good luck with Seeking in San Jose Costa Rica and in Mexico City. Did you feel safe and secure with them? How much time did you spend with them? Did you take them for a meal to check them out or just meet at your hotel?

I never haggle over the price. Their price is their price for who knows what reason. What I will do is say I want x amount if time (generally a min of overnight if not days) for that price. I don't see clock watchers, they're basically prostitutes or prostitutes who have convinced themselves they're not prostitutes. There are much easier ways to find them than using seeking. Of course to do this I need to be reasonably sure she'll keep my attention for that long and to some extent vice versa. Basically there needs to be some common chemistry that's why I try to have a conversation before we even discuss money. It's very time consuming but it works for me. Every girl I've ever negotiated a long meeting (overnight or multi-day) has been a success in my eyes, except one. Last thing I want is someone I'm uncomfortable with and same for them. I can't perform if we're not on the same page anyway so I see no reason to ask for a time guarantee. If they like you they'll stick around, if not they'll bolt. Why would I want to keep an unhappy girl around?

You are absolutely correct knowing they're there because they want to be and not because they're expected or compensated to be is the holy grail of this form of mongering. And for the record I have had multi-day and several overnights with girls who didn't speak english and I spoke little to none of their language. I'm talking about soapy girls in Bangkok & strippers in Eastern Europe. Very rarely was money even discussed once they agreed to see me outside of work I just gave them what I felt like and never had any of them complain.

I consider myself generous (in some eyes I'm probably a chump) and I do try to do fun things with them outside of the bedroom and that really helps to disarm them. Think plays, comedy shows, multi-course tasting menus, guided walking tours, etc. Basically anything that makes both of us not focused on the fact that there's money involved. That has worked wonders.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2887028]I was chatting w Blue Moon and he almost always discusses amount of time they will spend together. Like gets a different price for 4-5 hours vs overnight. Obviously in Bangkok or the like there is the ST or LT thing. But with Seeking I never discuss amount of time (we'll I prob have 5-10% if the time). Personally I love this. It's prob less than 50% of the time but def more than 10% that a girl chooses to stay over. And of course it's the same $300-500 or whatever regardless.

I find that soooo satisfying. To know that she's there because she wants to be not because I'm paying her. What about you? You discuss hours? Evening vs overnight? What's your normal modus operandi?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Buksida;2887034]I have had good luck with Seeking in San Jose Costa Rica and in Mexico City. Did you feel safe and secure with them? How much time did you spend with them? Did you take them for a meal to check them out or just meet at your hotel?[/QUOTE]Yes totally safe. Baires is a wonderful city and these were what we go to seeking for nice regular girls making a buck on the side. No issues.

They were all dinner and a walk and head to room. I am always a dinner to room guy with very rare exceptions regardless of country.

Two were prob 3-4 hr dates and one was three days. Of course it started out as a 3-4 hr date. 😋

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2887214]Yes totally safe. Baires is a wonderful city and these were what we go to seeking for nice regular girls making a buck on the side. No issues.

They were all dinner and a walk and head to room. I am always a dinner to room guy with very rare exceptions regardless of country.

Two were prob 3-4 hr dates and one was three days. Of course it started out as a 3-4 hr date. 😋[/QUOTE]We're very similar there. THough I usually require / insist the date go till morning so that there's an early am bang also and I start my day off right. You ever do that?

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2887556]We're very similar there. THough I usually require / insist the date go till morning so that there's an early am bang also and I start my day off right. You ever do that?[/QUOTE]Early morning bang has never really been my thing. I get horniest when drunk and have a custom made set of beer goggles. 😜 Morning my sex interest is low. But I think I am quite a bit older than you. I do just enjoy having a PYT to snuggle and then have breakfast with and bang the next nights.

And nothing worse than morning breath

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2887960]Early morning bang has never really been my thing. I get horniest when drunk and have a custom made set of beer goggles. 😜 Morning my sex interest is low. But I think I am quite a bit older than you. I do just enjoy having a PYT to snuggle and then have breakfast with and bang the next nights.[/QUOTE]

I was really reluctant to try and use Seeking again. But seeing as I didn't have any luck on Tinder, the last thing I wanted to do is walk the streets looking for a girl, or go to a brothel.

So, I would up communicating on the site with about 30 women who were in the DR, which was my destination. Then I got contacted by various other girls from different countries, maybe nearly as many as from the DR.

Of the 30 from the site who were in my applicable area, I probably moved the communication from the site to Whatsapp with about 10 to 15 of them. Of those 10 to 15, I was eventually able to narrow it down to about 5. And I only wound up seeing 1 of the 5, mainly because the other ones just weren't offering what I wanted, either looks wise, price wise, or initial meeting preference.

She's nearly 20 years younger than me, and has a very strong work ethic. Highly motivated to make a good life for herself. Also, had absolutely no problem spending extra time with me, without asking for additional compensation. It was a very informal arrangement. But also she very much appreciated me and what I was doing for her. I would describe her as bubbly, humorous, and playful. She's still chatting with me now, and is not asking for money. I certainly have no plans on a long term commitment with anyone, be it this girl, or anyone else. But, this experience at least shows me the potential is out there. But, at the same time it took me almost 3 week of incessantly taking to various women, and paying for a membership that costs more than the price of the most expensive sex worker from Sosua or Chiviricas, just to be able to find 1 person. It's like comparing shooting fish in a barrel, to deep sea fishing. Hell, if you go out into the middle of the ocean, there's no guarantee you're going to catch anything at all. You could spend hours out there, all for naught.

From browsing around the site though, it does seem like it might very well be the best option for Puerto Rico. Got lots of messages from Colombia, and I strongly suspect many are from either fake profiles looking for online cash, or predatory women.

Met up with a girl recently but the arrangement stuff never came up. I took her out to a bar and then decent restaurant which she enjoyed, then back to mine. I even went bare with her. I already made plans with her again this week. When we were back at mine I was slightly worried about a scam but she seemed genuine and scammers don't usually sit through 3 hours of eating and drinking.

I've had one experience where arrangement stuff didn't come up before but I brought it up when I was taking her home the first time. Now I'm wondering if that was a mistake. That girl later told me she blew the first guy from sa for free hah.

Any tips for how to handle it? I don't want to inflate my ego and think I showed her such a good time she's ok with it, but at the same time maybe she's good with getting taken out?

How do I bring up testing / bc? I usually don't but we were somewhere I didn't have a condom at the time. Do you trust them enough to CIP?

Due to a couple factors, sex wasn't that great. Thinking back I usually don't enjoy sex on first dates that much, probably because I don't know what to expect or I'm worried about a scam. Any tips there? Meet and greet first LOL?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2887214]Yes totally safe. Baires is a wonderful city and these were what we go to seeking for nice regular girls making a buck on the side. No issues.

They were all dinner and a walk and head to room. I am always a dinner to room guy with very rare exceptions regardless of country.

Two were prob 3-4 hr dates and one was three days. Of course it started out as a 3-4 hr date. 😋[/QUOTE]OK. Its worked well for me!!

[QUOTE=GoingDumb;2888489]Met up with a girl recently but the arrangement stuff never came up. I took her out to a bar and then decent restaurant which she enjoyed, then back to mine. I even went bare with her. I already made plans with her again this week. When we were back at mine I was slightly worried about a scam but she seemed genuine and scammers don't usually sit through 3 hours of eating and drinking.

I've had one experience where arrangement stuff didn't come up before but I brought it up when I was taking her home the first time. Now I'm wondering if that was a mistake. That girl later told me she blew the first guy from sa for free hah.

Any tips for how to handle it? I don't want to inflate my ego and think I showed her such a good time she's ok with it, but at the same time maybe she's good with getting taken out?

How do I bring up testing / bc? I usually don't but we were somewhere I didn't have a condom at the time. Do you trust them enough to CIP?

Due to a couple factors, sex wasn't that great. Thinking back I usually don't enjoy sex on first dates that much, probably because I don't know what to expect or I'm worried about a scam. Any tips there? Meet and greet first LOL?[/QUOTE]Just me personally, but I don't think it's wise not to have access to condoms. Remember, in life it's always better to have it, and not need it, then need it, and not have it. Same with being in a car, you can wear your seat belt your entire life and not get into a crash. You had it, even though it turns out you didn't need it.

On the other hand, let's say you never carry an EDC, or any other kind of weapon with you, and you go 20 years without ever encountering a gang member. Then one night, 2 to 3 hoodlums confront you, and it turns out they don't want your money. Extremely high probability you are going down, unless you happen to be very skilled martial artist, or olympic class sprinter. And guys like the latter two wouldn't be on a site like this, because they can easily attract women without money. Regardless, this is an example where you didn't have it, but you actually needed it.

There's lots of tales of guys getting unprotected intercourse from Seeking. And there's also lots of tales of people having the winning lottery numbers. You decide how many are true. While the potential repercussions of something going awry are not usually deadly as in the example above, certain STDs and the risk of pregnancy are quite serious. But. If you want to do it, at least you had access to condoms that it turns out you didn't need. Worst case scenario, a small pack of quality condoms maybe cost you $10, and you can save them for later.

Nor would I assume any woman off Seeking isn't there primarily for the money; all else secondary. Otherwise they would probably be on another site like eHarmony, Bumble, or Match. They can have second or third motives, like dinner or emotional connection, but I would always assume money is the queen.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2888525]
Nor would I assume any woman off Seeking isn't there primarily for the money; all else secondary. Otherwise they would probably be on another site like eHarmony, Bumble, or Match. They can have second or third motives, like dinner or emotional connection, but I would always assume money is the queen.[/QUOTE]You must be new here. Have a seat. Grab a drink. Wait 5 minutes and some dude will pop up earnestly telling you a girl he's paid, and is currently paying in some fashion, is his girlfriend and she would totally be banging her dad's contemporary even without the gifts. The irony will not be lost on anybody but this person.

Take a sip of your beer, munch some popcorn, and enjoy the delusion.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2888525]There's lots of tales of guys getting unprotected intercourse from Seeking. And there's also lots of tales of people having the winning lottery numbers. You decide how many are true.[/QUOTE]I hear lots of claims about unprotected intercourse. But I don't recall hearing any about having the winning lottery numbers LOL! Now, I had routine bareback vaginal sex with my one hugely successful arrangement through Seeking. I did it only because at 28 her tubes were already tied. She'd had two kids by then and decided she didn't want anymore. So no chance of an unwanted pregnancy. And her pussy was still super tight too like she'd never had even a single kid. And no baby damage!

[QUOTE=TheCane;2888599]I hear lots of claims about unprotected intercourse. But I don't recall hearing any about having the winning lottery numbers LOL! Now, I had routine bareback vaginal sex with my one hugely successful arrangement through Seeking. I did it only because at 28 her tubes were already tied. She'd had two kids by then and decided she didn't want anymore. So no chance of an unwanted pregnancy. And her pussy was still super tight too like she'd never had even a single kid. And no baby damage![/QUOTE]It you're barebacking girls you're paying for sex (without testing), you are in a sense playing the lottery. Except the prize isn't money. And it's not a prize. And you can't give it back. And almost certainly if you play enough you're going to win. Never mind, it's not like the lottery at all.

I assume if a dude is bare backing girls he's paying for sex he's already got the things he can't get rid of. At least some of them. Makes no sense otherwise.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2888640]I assume if a dude is bare backing girls he's paying for sex he's already got the things he can't get rid of. At least some of them. Makes no sense otherwise.[/QUOTE]Well remember how the old saying goes. To "assume" about things you don't know makes an "ass" out of "you" and "me". Only, in this case "me" is excluded because she and I both had already tested clean and had the lab documentation to prove it. It's rare, rare, rare for me to engage in BBFS when it comes to P4P. Can only recall less than a handful of times in my entire life. About how often I've wasted money on a lottery ticket! Ha! And so far so good. Carry forth and keep on fucking!

I posted something in the Paris thread and Steve suggested that I share my experience so far here.

I'm AARP age, reasonably fit and neither ugly nor particularly handsome. One advantage that I have is that I speak French very well (though many of the women that I contacted also speak English well). I'm well educated and my financial details listed on Seeking are modest.

I've been pleasantly surprised by my experience so far of using Seeking for finding companionship in Paris. As I head off for the City of Light in several days, I have arranged agreements with three women to have meet-and-greets with me. I messaged a lot of women (about 25) with a standard message and more than a few responded to me-I probably got about 12 messages indicating some level of initial interest. I was able to move half of those to messaging on WhatsApp and I settled on three as my main candidates to meet. That's a much better experience than I have had using Seeking where I live, which is somewhere in flyover country in the southeastern USA I've had some good luck here at home but it takes significantly more work and time to get similar results.

So far, I have not discussed compensation with any of the three and they have not mentioned the topic themselves. Obviously I expect and plan to give any of them compensation if I have an intimate encounter with any of them. But they seem happy for the moment to play along with me and trust me to offer a fair deal if we move our relationship to my hotel room. Assuming that I am really interested in sex and the woman is too, then I'm thinking something in the range of 300 Euros would be a fair deal. One woman that I messaged with on Seeking appeared to me to be a pro (maybe of East European origin) and she quickly specified that her going rate is 500 Euros. She might be worth it but at the price, I would rather look for a well reviewed escort. I'm happy to take my chances with an amateur and see what happens. I will enjoy my trip to Paris whether I achieve my goal or not.

[QUOTE=CaptRenno;2888732]I posted something in the Paris thread and Steve suggested that I share my experience so far here.

I'm AARP age, reasonably fit and neither ugly nor particularly handsome. One advantage that I have is that I speak French very well (though many of the women that I contacted also speak English well). I'm well educated and my financial details listed on Seeking are modest.

I've been pleasantly surprised by my experience so far of using Seeking for finding companionship in Paris. As I head off for the City of Light in several days, I have arranged agreements with three women to have meet-and-greets with me. I messaged a lot of women (about 25) with a standard message and more than a few responded to me-I probably got about 12 messages indicating some level of initial interest. I was able to move half of those to messaging on WhatsApp and I settled on three as my main candidates to meet. That's a much better experience than I have had using Seeking where I live, which is somewhere in flyover country in the southeastern USA I've had some good luck here at home but it takes significantly more work and time to get similar results.

So far, I have not discussed compensation with any of the three and they have not mentioned the topic themselves. Obviously I expect and plan to give any of them compensation if I have an intimate encounter with any of them. But they seem happy for the moment to play along with me and trust me to offer a fair deal if we move our relationship to my hotel room. Assuming that I am really interested in sex and the woman is too, then I'm thinking something in the range of 300 Euros would be a fair deal. One woman that I messaged with on Seeking appeared to me to be a pro (maybe of East European origin) and she quickly specified that her going rate is 500 Euros. She might be worth it but at the price, I would rather look for a well reviewed escort. I'm happy to take my chances with an amateur and see what happens. I will enjoy my trip to Paris whether I achieve my goal or not.[/QUOTE]I noticed that Paris is really expensive compared to the rest of EU, especially when you look at girls from Euro Girl Escort. Maybe not if you go to brothels or looking on the street. This is a bit more intuitive given it's an expensive flagship city in Western EU, with a massive population. Inflation, the reputation that France has, etc.

You can find beautiful girls almost anywhere else for less than 200 EU. I found knockout girls in Portugal and Malta for less, even with the outcall surcharge. So 500 rings a bell for that city, if you are looking at independent providers online. Honestly, my suspicion is that girls from Seeking will likely want more. I could be wrong though. The only one I saw in Paris was right around that price, and she was a published Brazilian model who still does photoshoots to this day. Spends time entertaining Arabian princes on their yachts occasionally, etc.

Good luck, maybe there's a good deal right around the corner. Please share how it goes.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2888672]Well remember how the old saying goes. To "assume" about things you don't know makes an "ass" out of "you" and "me". Only, in this case "me" is excluded because she and I both had already tested clean and had the lab documentation to prove it. It's rare, rare, rare for me to engage in BBFS when it comes to P4P. Can only recall less than a handful of times in my entire life. About how often I've wasted money on a lottery ticket! Ha! And so far so good. Carry forth and keep on fucking![/QUOTE]Cmon man. Obviously I'm making a statement about a broad range of people who seek this, not the one exception of a guy who does it rarely and has lab documentation from both parties in hand. You can make a general statement that eating Burger King every day is unhealthy even if some guy somewhere says it's totally fine because he does it every day but only ever orders the salad and a water. It would be cumbersome to talk about topics if you had to asterisk and footnote anomalies and exceptional edge cases every time you made an observation.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2888784]Cmon man. Obviously I'm making a statement about a broad range of people who seek this, not the one exception of a guy who does it rarely and has lab documentation from both parties in hand. You can make a general statement that eating Burger King every day is unhealthy even if some guy somewhere says it's totally fine because he does it every day but only ever orders the salad and a water. It would be cumbersome to talk about topics if you had to asterisk and footnote anomalies and exceptional edge cases every time you made an observation.[/QUOTE]In your first statement on this you made a link between paying for sex and picking up things that one can't get rid of. But, it's not paying for sex that's the real issue. It's leading a promiscuous lifestyle of unprotected sex period, regardless of whether you're paying for it or not. You don't have to be paying for sex to get something that will have you "paying" for that sex later in a way you hadn't planned on.

When weighing the risks of whether or not to bareback, you have to take into consideration who you're dealing with, and hope that your conclusions are right. In my decision to bareback with my Seeking baby, not only did I know her tubes were tied and that we were both clean, but I also knew that I wasn't dealing with a prostitute working in some place like a German FKK, a Brazilian termas, or a Thai go-go bar fucking multiple guys in a day / week. All systems go for no condoms cum inside!

I've barebacked three times with girls from seeking out of maybe 6 or 7 I've had sex with, one on a first date, one on a second date, and one after 3 or 4 months using a condom. I don't regret any of them and I didn't catch anything because I have always tested after but in hindsight the first two were dumb and I shouldn't have done it just because I didn't know them very well.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2888813]In your first statement on this you made a link between paying for sex and picking up things that one can't get rid of. But, it's not paying for sex that's the real issue. It's leading a promiscuous lifestyle of unprotected sex period, regardless of whether you're paying for it or not. You don't have to be paying for sex to get something that will have you "paying" for that sex later in a way you hadn't planned on.

When weighing the risks of whether or not to bareback, you have to take into consideration who you're dealing with, and hope that your conclusions are right. In my decision to bareback with my Seeking baby, not only did I know her tubes were tied and that we were both clean, but I also knew that I wasn't dealing with a prostitute working in some place like a German FKK, a Brazilian termas, or a Thai go-go bar fucking multiple guys in a day / week. All systems go for no condoms cum inside![/QUOTE]

I used to live at a place close to Paris. Three things blocked me from playing there.

1. French. Which doesn't sem to be an issue for you.

2. Switch and bait scammers. Many "girls" asked for money to meet. No-go for me.

3. Filtering out for above left me with a few not worthy enough to make the trip. Either not so impressive profiles or high expectations.

Result: I played in Belgium, Germany, Spain with great results. Mostly 250 EUR for timeless dates. Overnights etc.

Please keep me posted on how it goes for you in Paris. A city I would like to add to my list.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2888780]I noticed that Paris is really expensive compared to the rest of EU, especially when you look at girls from Euro Girl Escort. Maybe not if you go to brothels or looking on the street. This is a bit more intuitive given it's an expensive flagship city in Western EU, with a massive population. Inflation, the reputation that France has, etc.

You can find beautiful girls almost anywhere else for less than 200 EU. I found knockout girls in Portugal and Malta for less, even with the outcall surcharge. So 500 rings a bell for that city, if you are looking at independent providers online. Honestly, my suspicion is that girls from Seeking will likely want more. I could be wrong though. The only one I saw in Paris was right around that price, and she was a published Brazilian model who still does photoshoots to this day. Spends time entertaining Arabian princes on their yachts occasionally, etc.

Good luck, maybe there's a good deal right around the corner. Please share how it goes.[/QUOTE]

I have barebacked 7 out of 14. My top 3 repeat girls are bareback and CIP while the rest are bareback pull out. All 7 on effective birth control (IUD).

Why did I not bareback other 7? Didn't feel right. And never repeated them.

Have I been stupid? Couple of times I felt so. And when I read these stuff, I think I should no longer bareback (except those 3, of course).

We exchange test results. So, that's a good thing.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2888854]I've barebacked three times with girls from seeking out of maybe 6 or 7 I've had sex with, one on a first date, one on a second date, and one after 3 or 4 months using a condom. I don't regret any of them and I didn't catch anything because I have always tested after but in hindsight the first two were dumb and I shouldn't have done it just because I didn't know them very well.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2888780]I noticed that Paris is really expensive compared to the rest of EU, especially when you look at girls from Euro Girl Escort. Maybe not if you go to brothels or looking on the street...You can find beautiful girls almost anywhere else for less than 200 EU. I found knockout girls in Portugal and Malta for less...So 500 rings a bell for that city, if you are looking at independent providers online. Honestly, my suspicion is that girls from Seeking will likely want more. I could be wrong though...The only one I saw in Paris was right around that price, and she was a published Brazilian model who still does photoshoots to this day. Spends time entertaining Arabian princes on their yachts occasionally, etc.[/QUOTE]I'm not looking for an escort in Paris or Portugal or Malta. I'm looking for a PPM SB in Paris and I have some good leads with women who are not pros or Brazilian models (I don't like the type). The women that I have been in contact with seem to know what they're doing and I don't think they will be asking for or expecting 500 Euros for their time. If that was their expectation, then they would have let me know that up front, like the one that I mentioned did.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2888882]...Result: I played in Belgium, Germany, Spain with great results. Mostly 250 EUR for timeless dates. Overnights etc.

[/QUOTE]I don't think Paris will be much different, but I'll see. It does help to speak French but many girls who are obviously native French speakers post their profiles in English or both French and English. Speaking English is much more common in France than when I first went to France as a 19 year old and lost my virginity to a 24 year old French woman (not a pro).

[QUOTE=CaptRenno;2888943]I don't think Paris will be much different, but I'll see. It does help to speak French but many girls who are obviously native French speakers post their profiles in English or both French and English. Speaking English is much more common in France than when I first went to France as a 19 year old and lost my virginity to a 24 year old French woman (not a pro).[/QUOTE]Great to have you aboard Capt. You might want to set your expectations that France will be higher so as to not be disappointed. I've found a strong correlation between escort 1 HR prices in a city and Seeking full date prices. That is if an escort is asking $500/ HR then a seeking girl might be $500 a evening. Not always true but a rule of thumb. And there is definitely a correlation between legality of prostitution and escort prices. So by inference Seeking girls charge more in countries where prostitution is frowned upon. Thus why US is quite high.

The countries GFE references are all considerably more prostitution friendly than France. So I expect higher prices there.

Don't assume a wonderful conversation will lead to reasonable prices. All of us have had what appear to be great girls hit us up for $800 or $1000 when the price discussion starts. One way to find out is test the waters. Get a discusióand going with a girl who you are not totally smitten with and it's ok if it doesn't work out. Take her to WhatsApp and get into the price discussion. (There is a right way to do this and I can repost if not known) and see how that goes. That will give you some gauge for Paris.

Hello Pals, Great reading all the insights here.

So I have started talking with few girls and mostly looking to attract sugar babes in vienna and upto prague or Budapest is fine for me. So I find it quite difficult to understand the market and price here. Can any senior pals share some insights on how much is good and reasonable rates for girls here. Average looking girls to top spinner. Mostly a comprehensive discussion on price or PPM for the girls in this part of world.

And also I want to if with PPM girls will stay back for overnight or few hours in hotel. IF few hours then what's a standard hours of time for such PPM scenarios.

Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=Laj505;2889048]Hello Pals, Great reading all the insights here.

So I have started talking with few girls and mostly looking to attract sugar babes in vienna and upto prague or Budapest is fine for me. So I find it quite difficult to understand the market and price here. Can any senior pals share some insights on how much is good and reasonable rates for girls here. Average looking girls to top spinner. Mostly a comprehensive discussion on price or PPM for the girls in this part of world.

And also I want to if with PPM girls will stay back for overnight or few hours in hotel. IF few hours then what's a standard hours of time for such PPM scenarios.

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]As I say below escort prices often set the bar for Seeking girls (but for much longer time). So I would look up escort sites both cities and see what prices are for a hottie. Seeking girl will prob be similar.

As far as time dinner and sex tends to take about 3 hrs minimum for me. Maybe 5 hours if both are really great. So I think 3-5 hours is good for an evening. As I've said elsewhere in this thread I never specify hours. That's hooker stuff. So the date could be 3 hrs or could be overnight if we super vibe. I always play it by ear. Prefer it that way maybe partly because the less pro a girl is the more I want her to be my date.

But I'm going to chime in anyway. I've said this many times, I don't haggle or barter on their price. I will demand a set amount of time for it, something nebulous like "an evening" or couple of nights. I regularly pay way more than any of the numbers I see being thrown around in the last few posts but here's my reasoning.

1) I've got a slav fetish.

2) I'm extremely picky, I want a certain look and attitude. Out of 100 profiles I may be interested in 10 or 15. Of those maybe half will reply. Of those maybe another half will have some amount of conversation or chemistry that isn't focused on price first. If their first sentence involves price it's an instant turn off for me. Of those maybe half will not flake for whatever reason. So that puts me at 2% of the girls I actually want or get a chance to meet.

You need to decide what's important to you. Price or quality. For me, getting what I want is everything. I don't care about price (within reason). Fortunately, the ones I've been interested in have always given me a price I'm willing to pay. If their price motivates them to not flake on me then it's worth it. If I'm one of three guys she's talking to competing for the same evening, I'll happily outbid them if she's what I want. There's too much focus on price here. If that's a concern go to an escort, shady massage place or a brothel (outside of the US). Also keep in mind if you're sugaring, their price is just the start. Dinner costs something, drinks, entertainment, whatever you're into costs money. In my experience it can be as much or more than their price but when I've laid out an incredible night at a really nice restaurant or show it has always paid dividends and I've always received more than I expected from her.

[QUOTE=Laj505;2889048]Hello Pals, Great reading all the insights here.

So I have started talking with few girls and mostly looking to attract sugar babes in vienna and upto prague or Budapest is fine for me. So I find it quite difficult to understand the market and price here. Can any senior pals share some insights on how much is good and reasonable rates for girls here. Average looking girls to top spinner. Mostly a comprehensive discussion on price or PPM for the girls in this part of world.

And also I want to if with PPM girls will stay back for overnight or few hours in hotel. IF few hours then what's a standard hours of time for such PPM scenarios.

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2889083]As I say below escort prices often set the bar for Seeking girls (but for much longer time). So I would look up escort sites both cities and see what prices are for a hottie. Seeking girl will prob be similar.

As far as time dinner and sex tends to take about 3 hrs minimum for me. Maybe 5 hours if both are really great. So I think 3-5 hours is good for an evening. As I've said elsewhere in this thread I never specify hours. That's hooker stuff. So the date could be 3 hrs or could be overnight if we super vibe. I always play it by ear. Prefer it that way maybe partly because the less pro a girl is the more I want her to be my date.[/QUOTE]Can you share your insights on how much price should be okay for the seeking girls. In absolute terms? Don't want to be biten by inflation. Thanks.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2889126]But I'm going to chime in anyway. I've said this many times, I don't haggle or barter on their price. I will demand a set amount of time for it, something nebulous like "an evening" or couple of nights. I regularly pay way more than any of the numbers I see being thrown around in the last few posts but here's my reasoning.

1) I've got a slav fetish.

2) I'm extremely picky, I want a certain look and attitude. Out of 100 profiles I may be interested in 10 or 15. Of those maybe half will reply. Of those maybe another half will have some amount of conversation or chemistry that isn't focused on price first. If their first sentence involves price it's an instant turn off for me. Of those maybe half will not flake for whatever reason. So that puts me at 2% of the girls I actually want or get a chance to meet.

You need to decide what's important to you. Price or quality. For me, getting what I want is everything. I don't care about price (within reason). Fortunately, the ones I've been interested in have always given me a price I'm willing to pay. If their price motivates them to not flake on me then it's worth it. If I'm one of three guys she's talking to competing for the same evening, I'll happily outbid them if she's what I want. There's too much focus on price here. If that's a concern go to an escort, shady massage place or a brothel (outside of the US). Also keep in mind if you're sugaring, their price is just the start. Dinner costs something, drinks, entertainment, whatever you're into costs money. In my experience it can be as much or more than their price but when I've laid out an incredible night at a really nice restaurant or show it has always paid dividends and I've always received more than I expected from her.[/QUOTE]Great insights. I wll follow the checks you mentioned. Also can you share some ballpark amount you pay the girls for such 3/4 or overnight experiences regardless of the levels of beauties.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2889021]Great to have you aboard Capt. You might want to set your expectations that France will be higher so as to not be disappointed. I've found a strong correlation between escort 1 HR prices in a city and Seeking full date prices. That is if an escort is asking $500/ HR then a seeking girl might be $500 a evening. Not always true but a rule of thumb. And there is definitely a correlation between legality of prostitution and escort prices. So by inference Seeking girls charge more in countries where prostitution is frowned upon. Thus why US is quite high.

The countries GFE references are all considerably more prostitution friendly than France. So I expect higher prices there.

Don't assume a wonderful conversation will lead to reasonable prices. All of us have had what appear to be great girls hit us up for $800 or $1000 when the price discussion starts. One way to find out is test the waters. Get a discusiand going with a girl who you are not totally smitten with and it's ok if it doesn't work out. Take her to WhatsApp and get into the price discussion. (There is a right way to do this and I can repost if not known) and see how that goes. That will give you some gauge for Paris.[/QUOTE]And there you have it folks. Most interestingly, if you look at the laws, prostitution is rarely criminally illegal in most of South America and Europe. Sometimes associated activities such as brothels and pimping are, but rarely independent prostitution, though it may be regulated. Same for most Oriental countries. And even if it is illegal, the police rarely ever enforce it. Where is in the United States there are dozens of arrest per day.

What I find most amusing is the price post dinner discussion. I talked to a hooker on the Seeking messaging platform. I told her I would only be in town for a short period of time and was looking for something short term. She responded by saying a meeting of any sort is a minimum of $1,000 USD. I asked her what if I only wanted to see her for an hour. She replied by saying 700. I responded by blocking her on Seeking.

Now where would I be if I took her out to an exquisite restaurant without discussing price, and she orders a $500 bottle of Cristal? What if I start discussing price and she makes me the same offer? Even if I decline as politely as possible, what's to stop her from saying she needs to use the restroom, walking out the exit door of the restaurant instead, sending me a text saying if I don't pay for the champagne she's going to accuse me of rape? Do you think showing my cell phone to the mesero, telling him she's trying to blackmail me when he brings me the cuenta, would be an effective tactic? Jajaja, no, of course not. I'd be stuck with the bill, on account of an arrogant woman / ho who thought "she was worth a high dollar amount. ".

I guess that's one risk I would prefer not to take, though other people might be comfortable with it.

But. That's why I always have a discussion with them before discussing money. Pros go straight to the number. A legit sugar baby doesn't. Whatever you think of them they've rationalized the fact that they're on seeking and most are there for some kind of connection as a priority after the money. This is not an exact science and everybody is different. What I can say is I have found exactly what I'm looking for several times, made a couple mistakes along the way, learned from them, and am mostly very happy with the results. I would never pay a pro $1 k but I'd give that to a sugar baby every day of the week. The mental connection is way more important than the time or bedroom performance for me. That stuff comes with the mental connection for free (kinda).

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2889291]And there you have it folks. Most interestingly, if you look at the laws, prostitution is rarely criminally illegal in most of South America and Europe. Sometimes associated activities such as brothels and pimping are, but rarely independent prostitution, though it may be regulated. Same for most Oriental countries. And even if it is illegal, the police rarely ever enforce it. Where is in the United States there are dozens of arrest per day.

What I find most amusing is the price post dinner discussion. I talked to a hooker on the Seeking messaging platform. I told her I would only be in town for a short period of time and was looking for something short term. She responded by saying a meeting of any sort is a minimum of $1,000 USD. I asked her what if I only wanted to see her for an hour. She replied by saying 700. I responded by blocking her on Seeking.

Now where would I be if I took her out to an exquisite restaurant without discussing price, and she orders a $500 bottle of Cristal? What if I start discussing price and she makes me the same offer? Even if I decline as politely as possible, what's to stop her from saying she needs to use the restroom, walking out the exit door of the restaurant instead, sending me a text saying if I don't pay for the champagne she's going to accuse me of rape? Do you think showing my cell phone to the mesero, telling him she's trying to blackmail me when he brings me the cuenta, would be an effective tactic? Jajaja, no, of course not. I'd be stuck with the bill, on account of an arrogant woman / ho who thought "she was worth a high dollar amount. ".

I guess that's one risk I would prefer not to take, though other people might be comfortable with it.[/QUOTE]

I'm back after losing my password for a bit and being too lazy to recover it. I wish I did it earlier, since I probably could have saved a bunch of anguish with input from this forum.

I've had an on-off sugar baby in Brazil which I've known for over a year. We started meeting fall of 2022 in São Paulo and had a mini, PPM-based relationship for a few months. Afterwards, we had a falling out, she went to try living in the US and there was overall little communication. Spring of 2023, she's back in Brazil and we spend a few mini-vacations together in Rio and Florianopolis, which were great. She goes back to the US, and again completely disappears from communication. I found out later she was also seeing another guy while in the US, who wasn't supporting her financially. She was working as a house cleaner, and the stress was too much for her, she came back emaciated and with acne on her forehead (likely due to the standard American diet).

I was still very attracted to her and respected her more for trying to make it in the US. We had a couple fun days before I had to leave São Paulo, and I offered her monthly support with her expenses until I come back. Overall, I didn't feel happy with the arrangement because compared to other similar girls who've had similar arrangements, she made less time to be available in calls and generally made less effort. I found out later she was seeing the same guy in Brazil for a part of the time, she lied a few times about being busy while she was really out partying, etc. I arrive back in São Paulo after a few months, and she behaves pretty poorly, at one point saying "I don't want to be here but I have to pay my rent". At that point, I knew things weren't going to work out with the monthly arrangement and told her things were going back to PPM. Understandably, the level of connection dropped a fair bit, but the sex was still good and we could still have fun moments together.

She decides to go to Italy for a month and I visited her on my way to see family in Europe. We spend a few days together in Italy, which start off great but eventually spiral after she admits she hasn't paid her college for 2 months and needs even more money to cover the late fees. To make things worse, she decides to go back to Brazil which is too far for me to travel again. I told her I won't pay for her mistakes (she spent the money on clothes and hair products) and she should face the consequences herself.

Fast forward about a month until now, she calls me crying telling me she had family issues, doesn't want to see other men in Brazil and can I please take her out of the country to Europe (I'm in Barcelona now). I'm thinking what that would have to look like to make it work for me. She'd probably have to live with me, and I'd cap her monthly support at a fixed sum. The concern I have is that it might be too taxing for me to "take care of her" as she needs to be taken care of (namely with strong boundaries). I'm not a person who enjoys being firm with others, and I think she needs that. I also worry she might be destabilizing to my life and goals in general.

On the other hand, part of me is saying, it'll only be a one-way flight ticket to try. She is really hot, and when not being a fuck-up, quite chill to be around and down to do whatever I want. And if it doesn't work, I can ship her off to her family in Italy for less than $100. I can structure the agreement how I like and if she doesn't agree to it, we can all move on. Thoughts?

Sounds to me like you're always her fallback plan and I doubt anything I'd say would stop you from doing what you're going to do.

[QUOTE=TedFerguson;2889304]I'm back after losing my password for a bit and being too lazy to recover it. I wish I did it earlier, since I probably could have saved a bunch of anguish with input from this forum.

I've had an on-off sugar baby in Brazil which I've known for over a year. We started meeting fall of 2022 in So Paulo and had a mini, PPM-based relationship for a few months. Afterwards, we had a falling out, she went to try living in the US and there was overall little communication. Spring of 2023, she's back in Brazil and we spend a few mini-vacations together in Rio and Florianopolis, which were great. She goes back to the US, and again completely disappears from communication. I found out later she was also seeing another guy while in the US, who wasn't supporting her financially. She was working as a house cleaner, and the stress was too much for her, she came back emaciated and with acne on her forehead (likely due to the standard American diet).

I was still very attracted to her and respected her more for trying to make it in the US. We had a couple fun days before I had to leave So Paulo, and I offered her monthly support with her expenses until I come back. Overall, I didn't feel happy with the arrangement because compared to other similar girls who've had similar arrangements, she made less time to be available in calls and generally made less effort. I found out later she was seeing the same guy in Brazil for a part of the time, she lied a few times about being busy while she was really out partying, etc. I arrive back in So Paulo after a few months, and she behaves pretty poorly, at one point saying "I don't want to be here but I have to pay my rent". At that point, I knew things weren't going to work out with the monthly arrangement and told her things were going back to PPM. Understandably, the level of connection dropped a fair bit, but the sex was still good and we could still have fun moments together.

She decides to go to Italy for a month and I visited her on my way to see family in Europe. We spend a few days together in Italy, which start off great but eventually spiral after she admits she hasn't paid her college for 2 months and needs even more money to cover the late fees. To make things worse, she decides to go back to Brazil which is too far for me to travel again. I told her I won't pay for her mistakes (she spent the money on clothes and hair products) and she should face the consequences herself.

Fast forward about a month until now, she calls me crying telling me she had family issues, doesn't want to see other men in Brazil and can I please take her out of the country to Europe (I'm in Barcelona now). I'm thinking what that would have to look like to make it work for me. She'd probably have to live with me, and I'd cap her monthly support at a fixed sum. The concern I have is that it might be too taxing for me to "take care of her" as she needs to be taken care of (namely with strong boundaries). I'm not a person who enjoys being firm with others, and I think she needs that. I also worry she might be destabilizing to my life and goals in general.

On the other hand, part of me is saying, it'll only be a one-way flight ticket to try. She is really hot, and when not being a fuck-up, quite chill to be around and down to do whatever I want. And if it doesn't work, I can ship her off to her family in Italy for less than $100. I can structure the agreement how I like and if she doesn't agree to it, we can all move on. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: No, I have had quite some experience with Brazilians, coworkers, girl friend, hookers. Brazilians make a great appetiser but a horrible main dish. Further this girl is fucking bananas, not crazy as in "what a great, crazy, fuck" but as in batshit crazy. She will dump all her problems on you, bang another guys she likes better for free, and be a total mess.

[QUOTE=TedFerguson;2889304]I'm back after losing my password for a bit and being too lazy to recover it. I wish I did it earlier, since I probably could have saved a bunch of anguish with input from this forum.

I've had an on-off sugar baby in Brazil which I've known for over a year. We started meeting fall of 2022 in So Paulo and had a mini, PPM-based relationship for a few months. Afterwards, we had a falling out, she went to try living in the US and there was overall little communication. Spring of 2023, she's back in Brazil and we spend a few mini-vacations together in Rio and Florianopolis, which were great. She goes back to the US, and again completely disappears from communication. I found out later she was also seeing another guy while in the US, who wasn't supporting her financially. She was working as a house cleaner, and the stress was too much for her, she came back emaciated and with acne on her forehead (likely due to the standard American diet).

On the other hand, part of me is saying, it'll only be a one-way flight ticket to try. She is really hot, and when not being a fuck-up, quite chill to be around and down to do whatever I want. And if it doesn't work, I can ship her off to her family in Italy for less than $100. I can structure the agreement how I like and if she doesn't agree to it, we can all move on. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2889083]As I say below escort prices often set the bar for Seeking girls (but for much longer time). So I would look up escort sites both cities and see what prices are for a hottie. Seeking girl will prob be similar.[/QUOTE]I did the same thing. That would give me a ballpark of what was reasonable.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2889083]As I've said elsewhere in this thread I never specify hours. That's hooker stuff. So the date could be 3 hrs or could be overnight if we super vibe. I always play it by ear. Prefer it that way maybe partly because the less pro a girl is the more I want her to be my date.[/QUOTE]Sadly in the USA, there always had to be a price discussion, but my best dates were when price was not mentioned.

Still, guys here should remember what the goal of being a sugar daddy should be. It is not getting laid for as little as possible. It is that the woman wants to fuck you for nothing, and you want to give her money because you care about her and want her life to be better. I get that is not always that easy to find, but a really good sugar baby or really good sugar daddy is almost priceless.

My first sugar baby and I saw each other for four years. In year 3, I asked her to spontaneously meet me for dinner. Granted, she always had boyfriends who needed her for some crisis, but she rushed to meet me and asked, "What is wrong?" I just said I wanted dinner and was hungry and wanted company, and she sighed with relief. She said in all the time I have known I had asked nothing of her spontaneously whereas almost everyone else in her life was doing it all the time. That is how much she cared. She dropped everything when she thought I needed her.

Every so often even now, I will have an ex-SB text or call me needing help, and I will usually do it because I still consider us friends. What I have found is if the women cares about you (and vice versa), and that can just be genuine affection and not even love, the sex is infinitely better.

Getting laid is easy. Getting a high quality sugar baby is much harder, but it is so worth it when you get a good one.

Good comments. Getting close to posting my results from goldbikiniclub in poland but I've gone to my whatsapp and telegram conversations to get an idea of how long I chatted with them before one of us brought up money.

Girl 1 - 1 HR 40 min texting back and forth no less than every 3 or 4 min. She brought it up. Immediate yes to my proposal.

Girl 2 - 9 days chatting daily. I brought it up. Another 6 days before she actually agreed to meet. I threw out the first number, she countered and I accepted.

Girl 3 - 40 min. I brought it up. Immediate yes to my proposal.

A pro would never spend this kind of time with me and the only way I can do it is if there is some amount of chemistry / mutual interest with genuine conversation flowing in both directions. I'm purposely leaving out numbers as I feel they're irrelevant but if any of the regular contributors would like to dm me I'll share them privately once the report is posted and you know a litte about the circumstances surrounding each girl.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2889366]I did the same thing. That would give me a ballpark of what was reasonable.

Sadly in the USA, there always had to be a price discussion, but my best dates were when price was not mentioned.

Still, guys here should remember what the goal of being a sugar daddy should be. It is not getting laid for as little as possible. It is that the woman wants to fuck you for nothing, and you want to give her money because you care about her and want her life to be better. I get that is not always that easy to find, but a really good sugar baby or really good sugar daddy is almost priceless.

My first sugar baby and I saw each other for four years. In year 3, I asked her to spontaneously meet me for dinner. Granted, she always had boyfriends who needed her for some crisis, but she rushed to meet me and asked, "What is wrong?" I just said I wanted dinner and was hungry and wanted company, and she sighed with relief. She said in all the time I have known I had asked nothing of her spontaneously whereas almost everyone else in her life was doing it all the time. That is how much she cared. She dropped everything when she thought I needed her.

Every so often even now, I will have an ex-SB text or call me needing help, and I will usually do it because I still consider us friends. What I have found is if the women cares about you (and vice versa), and that can just be genuine affection and not even love, the sex is infinitely better.

Getting laid is easy. Getting a high quality sugar baby is much harder, but it is so worth it when you get a good one.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cons68;2889318]Brazilians make a great appetiser but a horrible main dish.[/QUOTE]This made me laugh Maybe I've had my appetizer then and should move on?

Can you tell me what you mean in more detail? Like you think Brazilians are bad at serious relationships (this came up in a past conversation with a Swede who lived in Brazil for a few years)?

Looks like she is messed up because she doesn't know what she wants in life.

And, I feel like you have a weak spot for her. Worst is, she knows this. I am no one to comment but risking so merely reading one side of the story. She seems to be manipulating you.

If you want good sex, with no drama. Don't see her. If you are ok with the drama. Like you said, its just a one way flight fare. But, before that, think deep about how you'd feel if she comes to Barcelona and fucks up again. If that won't affect you mentally or otherwise. Yeah, give it a try.

But, frankly, I see only redflags.

[QUOTE=TedFerguson;2889304]I'm back after losing my password for a bit and being too lazy to recover it. I wish I did it earlier, since I probably could have saved a bunch of anguish with input from this forum.

I've had an on-off sugar baby in Brazil which I've known for over a year. We started meeting fall of 2022 in So Paulo and had a mini, PPM-based relationship for a few months. Afterwards, we had a falling out, she went to try living in the US and there was overall little communication. Spring of 2023, she's back in Brazil and we spend a few mini-vacations together in Rio and Florianopolis, which were great. She goes back to the US, and again completely disappears from communication. I found out later she was also seeing another guy while in the US, who wasn't supporting her financially. She was working as a house cleaner, and the stress was too much for her, she came back emaciated and with acne on her forehead (likely due to the standard American diet).

I was still very attracted to her and respected her more for trying to make it in the US. We had a couple fun days before I had to leave So Paulo, and I offered her monthly support with her expenses until I come back. Overall, I didn't feel happy with the arrangement because compared to other similar girls who've had similar arrangements, she made less time to be available in calls and generally made less effort. I found out later she was seeing the same guy in Brazil for a part of the time, she lied a few times about being busy while she was really out partying, etc. I arrive back in So Paulo after a few months, and she behaves pretty poorly, at one point saying "I don't want to be here but I have to pay my rent". At that point, I knew things weren't going to work out with the monthly arrangement and told her things were going back to PPM. Understandably, the level of connection dropped a fair bit, but the sex was still good and we could still have fun moments together.

She decides to go to Italy for a month and I visited her on my way to see family in Europe. We spend a few days together in Italy, which start off great but eventually spiral after she admits she hasn't paid her college for 2 months and needs even more money to cover the late fees. To make things worse, she decides to go back to Brazil which is too far for me to travel again. I told her I won't pay for her mistakes (she spent the money on clothes and hair products) and she should face the consequences herself.

Fast forward about a month until now, she calls me crying telling me she had family issues, doesn't want to see other men in Brazil and can I please take her out of the country to Europe (I'm in Barcelona now). I'm thinking what that would have to look like to make it work for me. She'd probably have to live with me, and I'd cap her monthly support at a fixed sum. The concern I have is that it might be too taxing for me to "take care of her" as she needs to be taken care of (namely with strong boundaries). I'm not a person who enjoys being firm with others, and I think she needs that. I also worry she might be destabilizing to my life and goals in general.

On the other hand, part of me is saying, it'll only be a one-way flight ticket to try. She is really hot, and when not being a fuck-up, quite chill to be around and down to do whatever I want. And if it doesn't work, I can ship her off to her family in Italy for less than $100. I can structure the agreement how I like and if she doesn't agree to it, we can all move on. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2889544]Looks like she is messed up because she doesn't know what she wants in life.

And, I feel like you have a weak spot for her. Worst is, she knows this. I am no one to comment but risking so merely reading one side of the story. She seems to be manipulating you.

If you want good sex, with no drama. Don't see her. If you are ok with the drama. Like you said, its just a one way flight fare. But, before that, think deep about how you'd feel if she comes to Barcelona and fucks up again. If that won't affect you mentally or otherwise. Yeah, give it a try.

But, frankly, I see only redflags.[/QUOTE]I couldn't have said this better.

I think with her, PPM is the way to go since she had proved in the past that she doesn't honor monthly arrangements and has no problem seeing other guys.

[QUOTE=TedFerguson;2889525]This made me laugh Maybe I've had my appetizer then and should move on?

Can you tell me what you mean in more detail? Like you think Brazilians are bad at serious relationships (this came up in a past conversation with a Swede who lived in Brazil for a few years)?[/QUOTE]Ted dude. Been forever. Glad you are doing well. Some good advice in here. I guess I will add my perspective. First on long term. I've had a local mistress for two years. First year was absolutely great. Second year less great. I mean she's amazing. But also I get her drama and depression. And the sex is slowing down in intensity and length. So the long term thing is great. But it gets less good. So def consider that.

I have a saying I was reminding a friend of today. "Don't fuck with the fantasy. " What we do here on Seeking is primarily fantasy. Because real girlfriends and wives suck. We don't want that! We want fake girlfriends who give us all the good and none of the bad. As you get to know a girl u want to help her. You ask her what's up. You counsel her. And you fuck the fantasy! Don't fuck with the fantasy!

Second Brasileiras. We all love them for their open devil may care attitude. So they make great fake girlfriends. But unless you are super polyamorous with no jealous bones in your body they tend to make shitty monogamous girlfriends. They just aren't monogamous by nature. And neither am I. So I totally respect it. Just don't have any illusions.

Actually two Brasileiras I fuckrd got engaged a month or two later! Wtf? Yep. And of course the famous Thifany being one. When I found she was engaged I wished her luck in her life. She said "Why should anything change? He knows what I do from time to time. As does he. And he likes men also. " Hahaha Brasileiras are unique. Never think otherwise.

[QUOTE=TedFerguson;2889525]This made me laugh Maybe I've had my appetizer then and should move on?

Can you tell me what you mean in more detail? Like you think Brazilians are bad at serious relationships (this came up in a past conversation with a Swede who lived in Brazil for a few years)?[/QUOTE]Brazilian women tend to be audacious. Most of them are more extroverted than any other nationality I know. I think part of it is due to cultural upbringing there. They are raised to pursue what they want, which is often men, particularly those with money or status, which aren't necessarily Brazilian men.

I had sex with more Brazilians, than any other nationality. My findings are that most of them having great difficulty being truthful. They also tend to be high minded, incredibly stubborn, and sometimes unrealistic. But then again, many women are that way, not just Brazilians. But definitely the untruthful thing with Brazilians. A recent survey indicated they cheat more than any other South American country.

A prominent one sticks out in my mind that I met back in early 2019, about a year before Covid hit, when P4 P in the US will still viable. Beautiful girl in her mid 30's, with dark skin, and very shapely breasts, although augmented. On the thinner side with excellent hygiene. When I first met her, she gave me whatever I wanted, including extra time each appointment, and CIM, among other things. Of course at 400 an hour, she was a deal I could not pass up. Especially given now you have to pay 600 an hour for garbage, or $1,000+ for something decent. Anyway. I was seeing her multiple times a week in general.

After a couple of months, I informed her the frequency of our visits would have to slow down because I was going to spend some of my leisure money on other stuff, not related to sex. She responds by saying "But I still want to see you as often, let me drop your rate from 400 to 250. " Of course I took her up on the offer.

But then around the same time something happened. I don't want to get into what, and it may not have been her fault, but her reply and reasoning were basically total bullshit, and obviously her head was in the clouds. Now, this did not stop me form continuing to see her, but the quality of her service diminished after that. Within 6 months she developed an attitude, and the value I was getting even for 250 an hour didn't really seem to add up anymore. Plus she lied to me, and I was sick of dealing with her hypocrisy. I was the one to eventually break it off, even though she reached out to me.

So, in summary, she started off great, but less than a year later, what she was offering was basically trashy service, most especially compared to what I was getting in the beginning. She immigrated to the country around 2016 or so, didn't know a lick of English at the time, and married some guy to get her green card, who she has since divorced. Though she claimed the marriage was legit in the beginning, until he started psychologically abusing her. And to show her hypocrisy, she later describes the same ex husband as a "close friend. " That's her 2nd divorce, she also divorced a guy back in Brazil.

She's the type of person that cannot be reasoned with, even if you laid the facts right out in front of her. She would still uphold her own beliefs. I guess her brain is just defective I would say this is the kind of experience I would expect from a Brazilian sex worker, particularly one that moves to the USA.

[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2889552]
I think with her, PPM is the way to go since she had proved in the past that she doesn't honor monthly arrangements and has no problem seeing other guys.[/QUOTE]Literally the exact same thing I was thinking.

I want to thank everyone for their advice. Whatever decision is made, it should be based in reality and you've reinforced the decision awhile back that PPM is the only option with her.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2889555]I have a saying I was reminding a friend of today. "Don't fuck with the fantasy. " What we do here on Seeking is primarily fantasy. Because real girlfriends and wives suck. We don't want that! We want fake girlfriends who give us all the good and none of the bad. As you get to know a girl u want to help her. You ask her what's up. You counsel her. And you fuck the fantasy! Don't fuck with the fantasy!

Second Brasileiras. We all love them for their open devil may care attitude. So they make great fake girlfriends. But unless you are super polyamorous with no jealous bones in your body they tend to make shitty monogamous girlfriends. They just aren't monogamous by nature. And neither am I. So I totally respect it. Just don't have any illusions.

Actually two Brasileiras I fuckrd got engaged a month or two later! Wtf? Yep. And of course the famous Thifany being one. When I found she was engaged I wished her luck in her life. She said "Why should anything change? He knows what I do from time to time. As does he. And he likes men also. " Hahaha Brasileiras are unique. Never think otherwise.[/QUOTE]This reminded me of two things. First, this Brasilera I had known for a long time meets me for a date after we haven't seen each other for a while and her phone background is her kissing a guy (most likely her boyfriend). I did a decent job compartmentalizing so the sex was still ok, but kinda odd. Brasileras are unique indeed.

The second thing, a Colombian baby I kept in touch with likes to tell me that dishonesty is an integral part of sugar relationships. That jives with Steve's perspective that it's a fantasy. To me, it's not a fantasy though. I buy into the idea of helping them, and being a positive influence in their lives. I actually appreciate being involved in "their problems" provided the girl is a moral human being who makes effort to solve them and just needs a bit of help. I had a Colombian SB who really used the money to rent her own apartment, closer to her school, furnish it, and live a better life. She always made herself available to talk whenever. So I don't think it's always a fantasy.

Those are my two weaknesses, hot, young girls and when they have problems I can help with. I actually get a hard-on when she asks me for help with something. Maybe that's the problem, expecting that the ones who are problematic will learn and improve over time.

I saw the attached picture on Seeking! That looks like [B]cum[/B] on her face! I bet her inbox is overflowing with messages LMFAO!

[QUOTE=TheCane;2889961]I saw the attached picture on Seeking! That looks like [B]cum[/B] on her face! I bet her inbox is overflowing with messages LMFAO![/QUOTE]Wow! Nice! Where is she from?

Once you move into relationship land Brazilians are tricky for foreigners.

Hookers / poor girls do not realise that the guy living the life while on holidays in Brazil, still has to work for 11 months of the year, these girls are simply dumb.

Middle class girls / professional girls, when moving to a western country can get annoyed with a few things. First, no maid. These girls always had a maid, that is cheap in Brazil, expensive in WE / USA, we have replaced labor with capital (dishwasher, washing machine.) but they crave the status signaled by owning slaves, I mean maids.

Weather, first winter they love it, the snow, so romantic. Second winter they get annoyed with the fucking weather. I have seen this a few times.

No matter what crap TV feeds you, cross cultural relationships are hard. Brazilian men know how to handle Brazilian women, they were typically raised by one, for starters.

I am willing to die in this hill!

[QUOTE=TedFerguson;2889525]This made me laugh Maybe I've had my appetizer then and should move on?

Can you tell me what you mean in more detail? Like you think Brazilians are bad at serious relationships (this came up in a past conversation with a Swede who lived in Brazil for a few years)?[/QUOTE]

Yes, typical Brazilian.

[QUOTE=TedFerguson;2889790]
This reminded me of two things. First, this Brasilera I had known for a long time meets me for a date after we haven't seen each other for a while and her phone background is her kissing a guy (most likely her boyfriend). I did a decent job compartmentalizing so the sex was still ok, but kinda odd. Brasileras are unique indeed.
[/QUOTE]

At some point I told a Brazilian girlfriend (engineer, INSEAD MBA, consultant at MBB) "The only time you do not like is when you have my dick in your mouth. " She just looked sheepishly at me and said "Yes, that is true" and then we started fucking, she begging me to fuck her ass with no lube.

That sounds like "fun" but is batshit crazy. Not good, not healthy.

Still I may fly to Germany next month to fuck her after she had a baby with a German doctor. What cam I say.

And yes, stubborn. While working in Madrid for BCG she crashed, she phoned me to acknowledge that everything I had told her 10 years ago was truthful and accurate and she should have listened to me.

Took her more than 10 years to como to her senses, and taking a bad beating.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2889582]I had sex with more Brazilians, than any other nationality. My findings are that most of them having great difficulty being truthful. They also tend to be high minded, incredibly stubborn, and sometimes unrealistic. But then again, many women are that way, not just Brazilians. But definitely the untruthful thing with Brazilians. A recent survey indicated they cheat more than any other South American country.
[/QUOTE]

It is all about what the comes from. Ok I am getting confused now.

[QUOTE=Simplii;2889997]Wow! Nice! Where is she from?[/QUOTE]

"The only time you do not LIE is when you have my dick in your mouth. ".

Shit.

[QUOTE=Cons68;2890037]At some point I told a Brazilian girlfriend (engineer, INSEAD MBA, consultant at MBB) "The only time you do not like is when you have my dick in your mouth. " She just looked sheepishly at me and said "Yes, that is true" and then we started fucking, she begging me to fuck her ass with no lube.

That sounds like "fun" but is batshit crazy. Not good, not healthy.

Still I may fly to Germany next month to fuck her after she had a baby with a German doctor. What cam I say.

And yes, stubborn. While working in Madrid for BCG she crashed, she phoned me to acknowledge that everything I had told her 10 years ago was truthful and accurate and she should have listened to me.

Took her more than 10 years to como to her senses, and taking a bad beating.[/QUOTE]

How do you all react when you see a Seeking profile and the woman has "NO PPM! As the only thing in the title line?

Posted here by request. If it belongs somewhere else tell me and I'll repost.

So based on info gleaned from this site I signed up for an account on [URL]goldbikiniclub.com[/URL] prior to a trip to Poland a full two months before my scheduled trip (thank you to whomever). This was the account just above basic (I think it's silver) Here are some observations:

1) Two months is way too early, nobody takes you seriously.

2) I left my location as my home city and got no action whatsoever. Improved slightly when I moved location to Poland. *.

3) The entire first month was basically a waste of time and money*.

4) Very and I mean VERY rarely do girls post pics and I suspect those that do are catfishing.

5) No one replied to winks and none accepted friend requests that would allow you to view each other's private pics. Even though they'd talk for days on whatsapp or telegram. *.

6) Language wasn't much of an issue, the ones who told me they don't speak english were more than happy to converse through a translator if they liked me. I didn't, however, end up seeing anybody that didn't speak very good to perfect english.

7) All of the non-pros asked me to propose a price. I look at this one of two ways. A) negotiation 101 dictates that the first person who throws out a number looses. B) they are legitimately interested and don't want to scare me away with a number that might insult me. I wrote of my texting with girls a few posts back. I'm not arrogant enough to say it's all be but it's a big part of it.

Second month got a lot more interesting. Bought the next up account (gold) and started getting action almost daily BUT I had to initiate 90% of the time (the 10% were basically pros or civies who've convinced themselves they're not pros). It sucks because you are literally shooting in the dark. The girls don't post pics and profile text is minimal to say the least. I'd say I form lettered at least 120 profiles. I can't believe it but I found myself having to clarify if we were talking zloty or USD. Some numbers were astronomical and made absolutely no sense while others were so low I couldn't believe it. I'm not looking for pros but it's inevitable you'll run across them on sites like this. One told me she wanted 2000. I thought she meant zloty, she meant euro lmfao. I gave her a resounding no and the number immediately dropped to 1500. For the record I wouldn't have banged her for 500 but I will conceed she was very attractive. All this BS is my definition of a slog and even more work than seeking which I consider borderline unacceptable. *.

I ended up with primaries in three cities, backups in each, and in one city a backup for the backup. My goal was to make a loop of southern Poland and meet girls for lunch at some convenient stopping point then see what happens. I try not to be a douche and waste other people's time and overbook myself but I could definitely have lined up more if I were willing to blow a bunch of girls off.

Started out bad. Planned to meet girl 1 in a college town and she flaked so turns out I only met two and didn't make my loop. Girl 2 was a verified master's student who ended up being the craziest women I'd ever slept with. "Choke me, slap me, hit me, call me dirty names, stick it in my ass". Never seen anything like it from a tiny spinner of a girl (or any girl for that matter). I'm not into any of that shit but the fact that I was living it borderline scared the shit out of me. Still have teeth marks on my nipples and claw marks on my chest.

Said bye to girl 2 the next am after driving her home to meet girl 3 about 3 hrs away but she was visiting family a few hrs away still and couldn't come back early to meet so I spent a couple nights there with no action and decided I needed girl 2 again just to see if it was a dream (it wasn't). Apologized profusely to girl 3 and promised I'd be back, we had great texting chemistry and I'm she we would have had a great time. Girl 2 gets even crazier, no condom, wants it in the rear with no lube. I mean I can't make this shit up because I'm not this crazy.

Left girl 2 at home again to meet girl 4. Girl 4 was much more "normal" took a little disarming and wining and dining but she ended up staying with me for 3 nights. In the day we'd pick a direction and go on a road trip at night we'd eat an incredible dinner then back to the room.

So, [URL]goldbikiniclub.com[/URL] can deliver but expect more work than seeking but for me, the payoff in slav girls is well worth the time. I even have a couple in my back pocket for next time. One tried to get me to ditch girl 4 for a night so see her. But 4 literally came from out of town and I wasn't about to kick her to the curb.

Happy hunting, there's plenty of game out there you just need to go get it.

Ignore it and contact her. If you hit it off say something like "Do you mind if we do ppm until we get comfortable with each other?" I've been seeing my sb for 7 months and we're still on ppm. The important thing is that she knows your reliable. She won't care about an allowance after that.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2890094]How do you all react when you see a Seeking profile and the woman has "NO PPM! As the only thing in the title line?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2890098]

Happy hunting, there's plenty of game out there you just need to go get it.[/QUOTE]This was a report of distinction. Well done. Thanks for writing it.

Interestingly, I almost had a trip to Poland a few months ago. It turned entirely on whether I felt I could line up game. Because if I go to Europe and eat solo and rub it out it's a waste of time and money. I signed up for gold bikini but it just didn't seem like it was going anywhere. Like I wasn't getting much traction. Still seems like a lot of work from your report, but maybe it's worth it next time.

Why do you think so many of them don't want to show their pictures? Is this more taboo in Poland than the surrounding countries?

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2890098]Posted here by request. If it belongs somewhere else tell me and I'll repost.

So based on info gleaned from this site I signed up for an account on [URL]goldbikiniclub.com[/URL] prior to a trip to Poland a full two months before my scheduled trip (thank you to whomever). This was the account just above basic (I think it's silver) Here are some observations:

1) Two months is way too early, nobody takes you seriously.

2) I left my location as my home city and got no action whatsoever. Improved slightly when I moved location to Poland. *.

3) The entire first month was basically a waste of time and money*.

4) Very and I mean VERY rarely do girls post pics and I suspect those that do are catfishing.

5) No one replied to winks and none accepted friend requests that would allow you to view each other's private pics. Even though they'd talk for days on whatsapp or telegram. *.

6) Language wasn't much of an issue, the ones who told me they don't speak english were more than happy to converse through a translator if they liked me. I didn't, however, end up seeing anybody that didn't speak very good to perfect english.

7) All of the non-pros asked me to propose a price. I look at this one of two ways. A) negotiation 101 dictates that the first person who throws out a number looses. B) they are legitimately interested and don't want to scare me away with a number that might insult me. I wrote of my texting with girls a few posts back. I'm not arrogant enough to say it's all be but it's a big part of it.

Second month got a lot more interesting. Bought the next up account (gold) and started getting action almost daily BUT I had to initiate 90% of the time (the 10% were basically pros or civies who've convinced themselves they're not pros). It sucks because you are literally shooting in the dark. The girls don't post pics and profile text is minimal to say the least. I'd say I form lettered at least 120 profiles. I can't believe it but I found myself having to clarify if we were talking zloty or USD. Some numbers were astronomical and made absolutely no sense while others were so low I couldn't believe it. I'm not looking for pros but it's inevitable you'll run across them on sites like this. One told me she wanted 2000. I thought she meant zloty, she meant euro lmfao. I gave her a resounding no and the number immediately dropped to 1500. For the record I wouldn't have banged her for 500 but I will conceed she was very attractive. All this BS is my definition of a slog and even more work than seeking which I consider borderline unacceptable. *.

I ended up with primaries in three cities, backups in each, and in one city a backup for the backup. My goal was to make a loop of southern Poland and meet girls for lunch at some convenient stopping point then see what happens. I try not to be a douche and waste other people's time and overbook myself but I could definitely have lined up more if I were willing to blow a bunch of girls off.

Started out bad. Planned to meet girl 1 in a college town and she flaked so turns out I only met two and didn't make my loop. Girl 2 was a verified master's student who ended up being the craziest women I'd ever slept with. "Choke me, slap me, hit me, call me dirty names, stick it in my ass". Never seen anything like it from a tiny spinner of a girl (or any girl for that matter). I'm not into any of that shit but the fact that I was living it borderline scared the shit out of me. Still have teeth marks on my nipples and claw marks on my chest.

Said bye to girl 2 the next am after driving her home to meet girl 3 about 3 hrs away but she was visiting family a few hrs away still and couldn't come back early to meet so I spent a couple nights there with no action and decided I needed girl 2 again just to see if it was a dream (it wasn't). Apologized profusely to girl 3 and promised I'd be back, we had great texting chemistry and I'm she we would have had a great time. Girl 2 gets even crazier, no condom, wants it in the rear with no lube. I mean I can't make this shit up because I'm not this crazy.

Left girl 2 at home again to meet girl 4. Girl 4 was much more "normal" took a little disarming and wining and dining but she ended up staying with me for 3 nights. In the day we'd pick a direction and go on a road trip at night we'd eat an incredible dinner then back to the room.

So, [URL]goldbikiniclub.com[/URL] can deliver but expect more work than seeking but for me, the payoff in slav girls is well worth the time. I even have a couple in my back pocket for next time. One tried to get me to ditch girl 4 for a night so see her. But 4 literally came from out of town and I wasn't about to kick her to the curb.

Happy hunting, there's plenty of game out there you just need to go get it.[/QUOTE]

Don't want friends, classmates, boyfriends, husbands, family, etc seeing them there. I'll also add profile text was often lacking or nonexistent. I basically filtered by height and weight to keep my workload down.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2890162]Why do you think so many of them don't want to show their pictures? Is this more taboo in Poland than the surrounding countries?[/QUOTE]

They are good Catholic girls, you insensitive clod 🤣129315;129315;129315;.

Jokes aside, yes, it is a more conservative country.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2890162]Why do you think so many of them don't want to show their pictures? Is this more taboo in Poland than the surrounding countries?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2890098] 4) Very and I mean VERY rarely do girls post pics and I suspect those that do are catfishing.[/QUOTE]Without photos, how did you decide on who to contact? (and thanks for the report!

Thanks FB for the great report. Yes I think it belongs here as this is the audience that seeks a slice of life adventure with non pro and semi pro girls. What a great adventure. Thanks for the share!

I'm on a mission soon to Frankfurt, Athens, then Istanbul. In normal fashion, I fired up SA and went on the prowl.

Frankfurt.

I haven't spent much time in FRA, but I'm used to Germany and the FRA girls seem to be very comfortable in the 300 eu range. You won't get the same quality as Madrid, Lisbon, or London, but it's by no means a dead zone. There's a really nice Polish girl I'm working on.

Athens.

Yes. Athens. This is anecdotal, but I've noticed that in the more expensive cities (London, New York, Paris), the SA girls tend to request a premium (approx. 400 -800). The hotels and cost of outings are usually a good indicator to determine if you are in an expensive city. That being said, I have never been to Athens before but while setting up my trip, I was surprised by the price of hotel suites and the cost of escorts. Everything seemed on the cheaper side, and though I'm not a walk up brothel guy, they have 25 eu walkup brothels!! This seemed to be a possible indication of reasonable SA prices.

My expectations: There will be a mass of slim greek goddesses and in general they will be in the 200 - 300 eu range (like Madrid). No no no Shoomer. Madrid and Lisbon have spoiled the f*$k out of you. I have encountered a higher percentage of rude girls (one didn't want to tell me her name WTF), mostly on the not slim side, that all counter my 300 with 400 or 500 eu. I'm looking at these unimpressive girls, that are just "okay", that want a 400 eu and it's interesting so far. It is rare that I block girls because of something they've said, but I've found myself blocking multiple greek girls for having either insane expectations or for being very terse in their approach. It's all part of the game, so I'm still on the hunt. Just putting progress out there.

Istanbul.

Encountering alot of escorts posing as SBs. It's the end of my trip, so I was focusing on the Fra and ATH first. There have been a few nice ones. We'll see how it works out.

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2890283]I'm on a mission soon to Frankfurt, Athens, then Istanbul. In normal fashion, I fired up SA and went on the prowl.

Frankfurt.

I haven't spent much time in FRA, but I'm used to Germany and the FRA girls seem to be very comfortable in the 300 eu range. You won't get the same quality as Madrid, Lisbon, or London, but it's by no means a dead zone. There's a really nice Polish girl I'm working on.

Athens.

Yes. Athens. This is anecdotal, but I've noticed that in the more expensive cities (London, New York, Paris), the SA girls tend to request a premium (approx. 400 -800). The hotels and cost of outings are usually a good indicator to determine if you are in an expensive city. That being said, I have never been to Athens before but while setting up my trip, I was surprised by the price of hotel suites and the cost of escorts. Everything seemed on the cheaper side, and though I'm not a walk up brothel guy, they have 25 eu walkup brothels!! This seemed to be a possible indication of reasonable SA prices.

My expectations: There will be a mass of slim greek goddesses and in general they will be in the 200 - 300 eu range (like Madrid). No no no Shoomer. Madrid and Lisbon have spoiled the f*$k out of you. I have encountered a higher percentage of rude girls (one didn't want to tell me her name WTF), mostly on the not slim side, that all counter my 300 with 400 or 500 eu. I'm looking at these unimpressive girls, that are just "okay", that want a 400 eu and it's interesting so far. It is rare that I block girls because of something they've said, but I've found myself blocking multiple greek girls for having either insane expectations or for being very terse in their approach. It's all part of the game, so I'm still on the hunt. Just putting progress out there.

Istanbul.

Encountering alot of escorts posing as SBs. It's the end of my trip, so I was focusing on the Fra and ATH first. There have been a few nice ones. We'll see how it works out.[/QUOTE]Maybe you want to try to reprise my Athens adventure? Have you ever flown a girl in before? I flew Dayana (who I met on Seeking and we had one date) from Madrid. Was pretty epic. Of course she's a dime piece so totally worth it but I would think you have some hot girls you could fly in? And I highly recommend Paleo Suites. It's an amazing property wit luxe rooms and very well located.

Brilliant report. Thanks.

One qq. How do you assess if a girl is worthy of no condom? Teat reports or any other factors you consider? I had a girl with clean report but still I went with condom; she was french, no english and I spoke no french.

Later felt I could have. The condom experience wasnt great.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2890098]Posted here by request. If it belongs somewhere else tell me and I'll repost.

6) Language wasn't much of an issue, the ones who told me they don't speak english were more than happy to converse through a translator if they liked me. I didn't, however, end up seeing anybody that didn't speak very good to perfect english
Girl 2 gets even crazier, no condom, wants it in the rear with no lube. I mean I can't make this shit up because I'm not this crazy.

Left girl 2 at home again to meet girl 4. Girl 4 was much more "normal" took a little disarming and wining and dining but she ended up staying with me for 3 nights. In the day we'd pick a direction and go on a road trip at night we'd eat an incredible dinner then back to the room.

So, [URL]goldbikiniclub.com[/URL] can deliver but expect more work than seeking but for me, the payoff in slav girls is well worth the time. I even have a couple in my back pocket for next time. One tried to get me to ditch girl 4 for a night so see her. But 4 literally came from out of town and I wasn't about to kick her to the curb.

Happy hunting, there's plenty of game out there you just need to go get it.[/QUOTE]

Weight, 49 kg or less. Height, 180 cm or less, age, 28 or less.

Too easy to lie about 50 kg, I'm shorter than 180 but my sb at home is 180 so I know it's possible for me, everybody over 30 is 29 on dating sites.

[QUOTE=NoBuglyFitches;2890231]Without photos, how did you decide on who to contact? (and thanks for the report![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2890307]Maybe you want to try to reprise my Athens adventure? Have you ever flown a girl in before? I flew Dayana (who I met on Seeking and we had one date) from Madrid. Was pretty epic. Of course she's a dime piece so totally worth it but I would think you have some hot girls you could fly in? And I highly recommend Paleo Suites. It's an amazing property wit luxe rooms and very well located.[/QUOTE]That speaks volumes that you flew in a hottie instead of recruiting locally. I'm very unimpressed so far and now I am entertaining the idea of bringing in some previous talent I still keep in contact with from Prague or Madrid.

Good looking out Steve9696.

I'll keep the updates coming. We'll see how things work out.

02.

Little head thinking for the big head. I've not had issues with condoms my entire life but as I'm aging I get ED problems every once in a while that pills don't fix. In my experience, if they really like you they'll go bare especially if it's not working with condom first. I have never asked for bareback up front. And FYI I get tested every time I do it and have thus far avoided anything negative.

I'm a prime target for an 18 year child support meal ticket so I'd like to think I'm extra careful but I can be as dumb as anyone else when my brain isn't in charge.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2890328]Brilliant report. Thanks.

One qq. How do you assess if a girl is worthy of no condom? Teat reports or any other factors you consider? I had a girl with clean report but still I went with condom; she was french, no english and I spoke no french.

Later felt I could have. The condom experience wasnt great.[/QUOTE]

Curious how you all decide your age targets relative to your own age.

I am 46. I go for 18-23. Almost never older.

Rationale: little in common but the age at which I can go that young is limited. It's possible to bang a 18 year old when you're 60 but it's harder. I figure I'll age up as I age up and enjoy this now. Plus I say I'm 39 and I doubt 18-23 year olds know what a 39 year old really looks like relative to 46 and I'm not bad looking.

What about y'all's?

Has anyone here ever used SA in Milan, Italy? I'm just curious.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2890376]Curious how you all decide your age targets relative to your own age.

I am 46. I go for 18-23. Almost never older.

Rationale: little in common but the age at which I can go that young is limited. It's possible to bang a 18 year old when you're 60 but it's harder. I figure I'll age up as I age up and enjoy this now. Plus I say I'm 39 and I doubt 18-23 year olds know what a 39 year old really looks like relative to 46 and I'm not bad looking.

What about y'all's?[/QUOTE]Ages does not matter to me. I look at there picture first and then go from there. Then it involves personality, honesty, obviously looks, likes to have fun and then are they a freak in bed. They get bonus points if they are on-time or least make the effort to be on-time. I kicked a girl to curb today for being very late. I am banging about 8-11 girls regularly in MTY and CDMX, there age range is from 19-30. (life is good), I have nothing against the older girls, but there is not that many older girls available on SA in Mexico.

I am less worried about pregnancy. But the cleanness.

I have a few variables I look for but nothing is fool proof. General hygiene, likelihood of she sleeping around random (which is high for a seeking girl anyway), if she asks for condom (I see that as a good sign), her test reports (hoping she doesn't fake it).

Even after these, if she is not on BC of any form, I don't dip bare. Even if she is on BC, I pull out and spray on tummy, ass, face. Wherever she wants it.

My CIP is reserved for my top 3 only. And I have known them for 3 years now.

I don't have ED without (in fact, cialis did not give me any marked difference. Rather killed my orgasm) but with condom I hardly want 2nd round. Without, I usually take her for 3 or 4 rounds in a single night. And, they love it. I love it. Strangely with meds, I don't feel like doing the 2nd.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2890347]Little head thinking for the big head. I've not had issues with condoms my entire life but as I'm aging I get ED problems every once in a while that pills don't fix. In my experience, if they really like you they'll go bare especially if it's not working with condom first. I have never asked for bareback up front. And FYI I get tested every time I do it and have thus far avoided anything negative.

I'm a prime target for an 18 year child support meal ticket so I'd like to think I'm extra careful but I can be as dumb as anyone else when my brain isn't in charge.[/QUOTE]

I am 41. My sweet spot is 24 to 32. They usually have a relatively good head on shoulder and are less distracted on phone. A bit more realistic in life with shit thrown their way.

I have had 2 18's. Body was great but sex was blah. One 23, on-going. She is matured for her age (likely moving to CIP next week).

I have had one 38 in the US. Great sex. Including one in the car as we couldn't keep us off each other. Supposed to be just a meet and greet. We hit it off so well that it was like college days. No PPM. We met three times and then fizzled off.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2890376]Curious how you all decide your age targets relative to your own age.

I am 46. I go for 18-23. Almost never older.

Rationale: little in common but the age at which I can go that young is limited. It's possible to bang a 18 year old when you're 60 but it's harder. I figure I'll age up as I age up and enjoy this now. Plus I say I'm 39 and I doubt 18-23 year olds know what a 39 year old really looks like relative to 46 and I'm not bad looking.

What about y'all's?[/QUOTE]

I like the build up / date so I want to be able to have a drink with them and I take them to places guys their own age couldn't dream of. I stop the search at 33 but only ever saw one that was 32. She was so bat shit crazy it never went anywhere. My sweet spot seems to be 23-27 but my current is on the high range of that and I've no plans to replace her. She still does it for me.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2890376]Curious how you all decide your age targets relative to your own age.

I am 46. I go for 18-23. Almost never older.

Rationale: little in common but the age at which I can go that young is limited. It's possible to bang a 18 year old when you're 60 but it's harder. I figure I'll age up as I age up and enjoy this now. Plus I say I'm 39 and I doubt 18-23 year olds know what a 39 year old really looks like relative to 46 and I'm not bad looking.

What about y'all's?[/QUOTE]

In the interest of full disclosure one did contact me and tell me she tested positive for one of the lesser stds (that can be abated by pill or shot). I tested negative but lesson learned. She told me she had an iud but that assumes I believed her. Bottom line is I was stupid on multiple fronts. Full stop.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2890401]I am less worried about pregnancy. But the cleanness.

I have a few variables I look for but nothing is fool proof. General hygiene, likelihood of she sleeping around random (which is high for a seeking girl anyway), if she asks for condom (I see that as a good sign), her test reports (hoping she doesn't fake it).

Even after these, if she is not on BC of any form, I don't dip bare. Even if she is on BC, I pull out and spray on tummy, ass, face. Wherever she wants it.

My CIP is reserved for my top 3 only. And I have known them for 3 years now.

I don't have ED without (in fact, cialis did not give me any marked difference. Rather killed my orgasm) but with condom I hardly want 2nd round. Without, I usually take her for 3 or 4 rounds in a single night. And, they love it. I love it. Strangely with meds, I don't feel like doing the 2nd.[/QUOTE]

I'm on a long trip in the Midwest (in a city like St. Louis, Denver, etc.). I decided to check out SA after many years of not being super active on it. Wow, the scene has changed a lot. Way, way fewer SBs, and way, way worse quality. There are more SBs in their 30's and 40's than in their 20's, and the fact that almost everyone lies about their age makes this even more astonishing. And the new wishlist thing is a turnoff.

About nine years ago, I was super active on SA, and in about a dozen USA cities, ranging from large cities like San Francisco, Seattle, etc. , to smaller cities like Portland, Providence, Rochester, etc. , and it was great.

So, has SA gone downhill in the USA, or does it just take more skill to navigate it?

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2890494]I'm on a long trip in the Midwest (in a city like St. Louis, Denver, etc.). I decided to check out SA after many years of not being super active on it. Wow, the scene has changed a lot. Way, way fewer SBs, and way, way worse quality. There are more SBs in their 30's and 40's than in their 20's, and the fact that almost everyone lies about their age makes this even more astonishing. And the new wishlist thing is a turnoff.

About nine years ago, I was super active on SA, and in about a dozen USA cities, ranging from large cities like San Francisco, Seattle, etc. , to smaller cities like Portland, Providence, Rochester, etc. , and it was great.

So, has SA gone downhill in the USA, or does it just take more skill to navigate it?[/QUOTE]Nice to see quite a few threads rolling in here and welcome back MW. Midwestern is the OG Seeking dude and originator of this forum. I remember when it was pretty much just MW and me talking into the void a few years back. LOL.

Yes MW Seeking in the states really bites compared to rest of world. But it's the only game in town. You will really have to be on constantly and weed and feed like crazy. Unfortunately prices suck too. Even after and exhausting and exhaustive search If you pull a quality girl for 500 you are shooting par for the course. 400 is a tough sell and below that is likely not happening. If you aren't here long I suggest the Steve spam. "Going out to a nice dinner and drinks tonight. Join me?" This has worked several times with great results actually a few times in the Midwest!

In going bareback I've prob done it more than is wise but I always pull out. At my age my shot is about 1/2 inch LOL but I pull out anyhow except with girls I know well and trust are on BC. I have gone raw twice with pros which I don't recommend but I'm both cases when I was hard to finish they mounted up raw. Actually I've had that happen four times, but only two were pros. I do get tested from time to time. There is very little I can catch that isn't curable these days. But obv each has our own tolerance.

On age I think I am the oldest here, more than a decade older than most of you, but pass for much younger. I date exclusively 21-25 and it's no problem at all. My mistress I met when she was 23 and she turns 26 soon. I actually enjoy her world that is so different from mine. Of course she's unique and will even introduce me to her friends as her boyfriend. LOL. But def 21-25. Under 21 can't drink at the restaurant and yes they get carded so I wrote that off. And over 25 I had a bad series of fails where I couldn't close the sex deal night 1 with that age group. So I swore off over 25. I did make an exception one time and get got back to the room and she wouldn't let me past second base. WTF? So it's 21-25 for me. And if she is 23 with a nose ring we are def going to be a thing!

Heading on an epic trip soon and I prefer the club scene when traveling internationally. So I won't be needing Seeking much tho I do have two hotties lined up in an area that doesn't have a good club scene. I'll keep you posted!

Inflation affects everything including pussy. I remember grandma saying she could get a whole bag of candy for 3 cents. Every place I've ever mongered has gone downhill over the years. Thailand used to be a mecca for what I'm looking for (what Thai guys want, tiny spinners with white skin). They are a dying breed as are the venues they're found at. Gentrification has all but decimated the soapy scene in Bangkok where a girl far away from family could feel safe in the house and everything online is so photoshopped that the only thing you can believe is the price.

I've been doing seeking for about 4 years in a tier one coastal city so there's no shortage of hotties but I am seeing absurd profiles that say platonic and other nonsense of the like. I guess if you're 80 and can't get it up it may work for you but those girls ate just plain delusional.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2890494]I'm on a long trip in the Midwest (in a city like St. Louis, Denver, etc.). I decided to check out SA after many years of not being super active on it. Wow, the scene has changed a lot. Way, way fewer SBs, and way, way worse quality. There are more SBs in their 30's and 40's than in their 20's, and the fact that almost everyone lies about their age makes this even more astonishing. And the new wishlist thing is a turnoff.

About nine years ago, I was super active on SA, and in about a dozen USA cities, ranging from large cities like San Francisco, Seattle, etc. , to smaller cities like Portland, Providence, Rochester, etc. , and it was great.

So, has SA gone downhill in the USA, or does it just take more skill to navigate it?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2890499]lUnder 21 can't drink at the restaurant and yes they get carded so I wrote that off.[/QUOTE]Had a date with an 18 year old a while back in the 909 (people in so-cal will know it). Interesting twist: I was surprised how much less expensive the bill was. Minor side benefit.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2890501]Inflation affects everything including pussy. I remember grandma saying she could get a whole bag of candy for 3 cents. Every place I've ever mongered has gone downhill over the years. Thailand used to be a mecca for what I'm looking for (what Thai guys want, tiny spinners with white skin). They are a dying breed as are the venues they're found at. Gentrification has all but decimated the soapy scene in Bangkok where a girl far away from family could feel safe in the house and everything online is so photoshopped that the only thing you can believe is the price.

I've been doing seeking for about 4 years in a tier one coastal city so there's no shortage of hotties but I am seeing absurd profiles that say platonic and other nonsense of the like. I guess if you're 80 and can't get it up it may work for you but those girls ate just plain delusional.[/QUOTE]I've stumbled upon the fact that Jakarta seems to be loaded with low priced hotties in clubs like Classic. Like Bangkok used to be. Very active thread here. I hope to sample soon and will report back to my Seeking buds. Let me know if anyone gets there first!

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2890494]I'm on a long trip in the Midwest (in a city like St. Louis, Denver, etc.). I decided to check out SA after many years of not being super active on it. Wow, the scene has changed a lot. Way, way fewer SBs, and way, way worse quality. There are more SBs in their 30's and 40's than in their 20's, and the fact that almost everyone lies about their age makes this even more astonishing. And the new wishlist thing is a turnoff.

About nine years ago, I was super active on SA, and in about a dozen USA cities, ranging from large cities like San Francisco, Seattle, etc. , to smaller cities like Portland, Providence, Rochester, etc. , and it was great.

So, has SA gone downhill in the USA, or does it just take more skill to navigate it?[/QUOTE]My personal experience attempting to use it in the USA resulted in total basura, beyond any measure. I had success using it in the Dominic Republic. I haven't landed in Brazil yet, but my communications with SA women from there are going smoothly thus far, unlike the US. So for my opinion, SA in the US is a complete waste of time and money. Maybe others feel differently. Possible exception for Puerto Rico, or other territorial locations. But for the 50 named states, no way. Just a bunch of morons with a grandiose sense of entitlement, who want to sell their onlyfans pages. Even if you do find a good looking girl who is willing to get her knees dirty, chances are she will demand a long term contract. Maybe it will work for you if you don't have a problem making a commitment. But on that note, if you are willing to make a long term commitment, might as well get married ;)

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2890501]

I've been doing seeking for about 4 years in a tier one coastal city so there's no shortage of hotties but I am seeing absurd profiles that say platonic and other nonsense of the like. I guess if you're 80 and can't get it up it may work for you but those girls ate just plain delusional.[/QUOTE]Try as I might, I have yet to find this unicorn that is the man willing to pay a girl for a platonic sugar relationship.

I'm not saying they don't exist. They must or these profiles wouldn't exist. Somebody must know somebody who knew somebody who knows somebody who knew somebody who once talked to somebody who had a sugar daddy that did that. But I can't imagine what dude gets into that and how shitty his life must be to even consider it.

Interestingly, my last seeking account was the only account that I never made any meaningful connection or meet-up. As a reminder I delete mine once my subscription expires and start anew when the itch needs to be scratched. There was an amazingly gorgeous girl who was the primary reason for my creating that particular account but she wouldn't give me the time of day. No response, no FU, nothing. A couple weeks in she changed her profile to say something to the effect that she's only looking for a platonic relationship and anybody worth her time would understand. Just before I closed the account that absurd statement was gone.

I'm guessing they get educated really quick and if they want the money they figure out how to rationalize it. If they don't, they delete their profiles and it's off to dating broke college guys.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2890603]Try as I might, I have yet to find this unicorn that is the man willing to pay a girl for a platonic sugar relationship.

I'm not saying they don't exist. They must or these profiles wouldn't exist. Somebody must know somebody who knew somebody who knows somebody who knew somebody who once talked to somebody who had a sugar daddy that did that. But I can't imagine what dude gets into that and how shitty his life must be to even consider it.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2890521]I've stumbled upon the fact that Jakarta seems to be loaded with low priced hotties in clubs like Classic. Like Bangkok used to be. Very active thread here. I hope to sample soon and will report back to my Seeking buds. Let me know if anyone gets there first![/QUOTE]I was not in the game when I was in Jakarta, but when I was in Paraguay, there were so many abundant hot women that promoters would pay them to promote cereals ETC in the grocery store. Can you imagine that in the USA? A hot 16 year old standing in the cereal aisle being paid to just stand there and wear a t-shirt promoting a cereal?

In the USA if you want help at a department store, a lot of times you have to jump on the counter and wave a red flag and yell. Okay, I am exaggerating slightly. Granted it was a while ago, but when I was in Indonesia, there were scores of hot women. If you were in the cologne department at a store, you could not look at anything without being swarmed with offers by beautiful women to help.

Thing is Jakarta's the definition of third world shithole: crowded, hot, humid, and polluted. It was weird traveling from Singapore to Malaysia to Indonesia in that the amount of resources went up but the amount of wealth went down. I mentioned that to an English guy who lived in Asia for decades, and he said, "Yes, but the other thing is the wealth goes down where there are fewer Chinese", and this was right before China blew up.

If I wanted to do mass fucking, I would suck it up and stay in Jakarta. But if I went the sugar baby route, I would find women in Jakarta and fly them to Bali. Still, people think that beautiful spiritual holy island is a wonderful place free of corruption, but as the author of Eat / PrayLove found, scamming in Indonesia and Bali is rampant.

My favorite kind of women are those that can move their hips fast. When I think of those kinds of women, the two places you could always find them were Latin American and Polynesia / Hawaii. Thing is when I was in Bali, they had a group that did a song and dance Hello, and the women moved like the Hawaiians.

Where I have found the best women is often off the beaten trail: Sao Paulo over Rio, Bogota over Medellin, and if I were hunting sugar babies in Asia, my first stop would not be somewhere in Thailand or the Philippines but Indonesia and Jakarta in particular. And part of that is less competition. Who the hell wants to go and stay in Jakarta?

When I was in Colombia, another country where scamming is rampant, and was looking for women, I ran into a few women who went out of there way to show they were not scammers. I would think and bet that there are some women in Indonesia who would be like that too.

I think our community here is in the dark to a certain extent.

I recently had a 55 year old guy take my SB on a platonic dinner date and paid her 1 K. Apparently, he also filled up her gas tank and gave her a handbag.

I know this because she told me before going on the date and filling me in details after.

I was expecting her to go "So, I think our deal of 300 for non-platonic ppm needs revisited" and I was fully prepared to walk off. Then, she went, "But that guy was disrespectful in how he spoke to me at dinner table. He was also showing me off to the waitress as if I am his trophy. I am glad I have someone like you who treats me with respect even when we have sex. I am not going to see that guy anymore".

I breathed a sigh. This girl has a good head on her shoulders. Keeping her.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2890603]Try as I might, I have yet to find this unicorn that is the man willing to pay a girl for a platonic sugar relationship.

I'm not saying they don't exist. They must or these profiles wouldn't exist. Somebody must know somebody who knew somebody who knows somebody who knew somebody who once talked to somebody who had a sugar daddy that did that. But I can't imagine what dude gets into that and how shitty his life must be to even consider it.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2890769]I think our community here is in the dark to a certain extent.

I recently had a 55 year old guy take my SB on a platonic dinner date and paid her 1 K. Apparently, he also filled up her gas tank and gave her a handbag.

I know this because she told me before going on the date and filling me in details after.

I was expecting her to go "So, I think our deal of 300 for non-platonic ppm needs revisited" and I was fully prepared to walk off. Then, she went, "But that guy was disrespectful in how he spoke to me at dinner table. He was also showing me off to the waitress as if I am his trophy. I am glad I have someone like you who treats me with respect even when we have sex. I am not going to see that guy anymore".

I breathed a sigh. This girl has a good head on her shoulders. Keeping her.[/QUOTE]I hear these stories as well. Maybe 5-10% are true, if that. Now, I believe guys promise the world on-line and never deliver. I think this is a bigger issue then the guys that actually spend this kind of money, for no sex.

A reliable, respectable SD is worth a thousand douche bags every day of the week. There isn't a woman on the planet that wants to be treated poorly. Your attitude and personality is #1, reliability is #2, resources is #3, appearance is somewhere below those.

Douche bag guys are about as interesting as fat lipped bimbos with profiles full of pics from some hypocritical Arab country.

I've never insisted on anything exclusive, I've wanted it one or twice but never said it. I want them to meet these loosers so I look that much better and appreciate me more. The fact of the matter is most guys that monger this way have way more game than some rich nerd with no social skills who's had his head buried in a book for30+ yrs. I'll take the chance / make that bet that I'm overall better than some other guy all day long.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2890769]I think our community here is in the dark to a certain extent.

I recently had a 55 year old guy take my SB on a platonic dinner date and paid her 1 K. Apparently, he also filled up her gas tank and gave her a handbag.

I know this because she told me before going on the date and filling me in details after.

I was expecting her to go "So, I think our deal of 300 for non-platonic ppm needs revisited" and I was fully prepared to walk off. Then, she went, "But that guy was disrespectful in how he spoke to me at dinner table. He was also showing me off to the waitress as if I am his trophy. I am glad I have someone like you who treats me with respect even when we have sex. I am not going to see that guy anymore".

I breathed a sigh. This girl has a good head on her shoulders. Keeping her.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2890769]I think our community here is in the dark to a certain extent.

I recently had a 55 year old guy take my SB on a platonic dinner date and paid her 1 K. Apparently, he also filled up her gas tank and gave her a handbag.

I know this because she told me before going on the date and filling me in details after.

I was expecting her to go "So, I think our deal of 300 for non-platonic ppm needs revisited" and I was fully prepared to walk off. Then, she went, "But that guy was disrespectful in how he spoke to me at dinner table. He was also showing me off to the waitress as if I am his trophy. I am glad I have someone like you who treats me with respect even when we have sex. I am not going to see that guy anymore".

I breathed a sigh. This girl has a good head on her shoulders. Keeping her.[/QUOTE]Before she left the industry and found a conventional job that pays well (but has horrible work shifts), Ainara used to chat with me about getting elderly clients who "didn't hire her for sex, but just wanted to hang out with a beautiful girl" While she never got into too many details, I got the impression these guys were maybe 70+ or substantially older, and their "man parts" probably no longer functioned, maybe due to prostate cancer or something else that made sex not viable. What she didn't tell me is if these guys paid her the same price to spend time with her, that I paid her for a romp on the bed. I assume so, but I also recall a woman from Hawaii who used to advertise "cocktail rate" which she described as hanging out at a bar for drinks, was 1/4 the price of full service. I never paid the Hawaiian women for either, but I found her advertisement unusual.

That's too bad about Ainara. While she didn't have the most beautiful face in the world, she had wicked sexual technique, a perfect height to weight ratio body, and an ability to connect with me that few women have rivaled, despite English being her second language. Then she goes off to a highly demanding medical job with long hours, right before Covid hits the world, and health care workers start pulling double shifts. Yet I haven't seen any indication that she's made an attempt to return. Oh well, life happens.

Yeah right now I scoff at these guys that pay for platonic. I don't know I would ever get there. But I can def visualize myself at 80 w a hot live in girlfriend and we don't ever have serious sex. Just watch her booping around in her bikini. Giving me the doe eyes at dinner. Sweet kisses cuddling and affection. Maybe a BJ a couple times a month. I'the be good. Happy to pay her and keep her happy for that.

Met a girl once, never spoke of money. Conversation was interesting enough but I didn't feel a spark. Slipped 300 in her coat while went to the bathroom and basically pecked her on the cheek good night. Couple hours later she thanked me very much and told me to see her again when I'm in town. So much for my ability to read signals.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2890826]Yeah right now I scoff at these guys that pay for platonic. I don't know I would ever get there. But I can def visualize myself at 80 w a hot live in girlfriend and we don't ever have serious sex. Just watch her booping around in her bikini. Giving me the doe eyes at dinner. Sweet kisses cuddling and affection. Maybe a BJ a couple times a month. I'the be good. Happy to pay her and keep her happy for that.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2890722] As a reminder I delete mine once my subscription expires and start anew when the itch needs to be scratched. There was an amazingly gorgeous girl who was the primary reason for my creating that particular account but she wouldn't give me the time of day..[/QUOTE]How did you see her profile if you'd deleted your account? Is it possible to browse seeking profiles without an active (unpaid) account? As in aside, ime seeking profiles with super hot photos are usually fake or scams of some sort

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2890769]I recently had a 55 year old guy take my SB on a platonic dinner date and paid her 1 K. Apparently, he also filled up her gas tank and gave her a handbag.

I know this because she told me before going on the date and filling me in details after.[/QUOTE]With all due respect, I don't know her or your relationship so the following is just a general FYI. On SB boards and forums, a story like this is one suggested tactic to get a guy to raise the PPM: tell him about another guy who "stepped up. " And if the guy doesn't volunteer that raise, she takes the off-ramp saying "I didn't like him so I won't see him again." Would she really turn down another thousand dollars plus extras because the 55-yo guy was showing her off to the waitress?

I obviously had an account. My point is I don't keep an account any longer than I'm willing to pay which is generally a month. The answer to your second question is yes but I'll let you figure that out.

[QUOTE=NoBuglyFitches;2890863]How did you see her profile if you'd deleted your account? Is it possible to browse seeking profiles without an active (unpaid) account? As in aside, ime seeking profiles with super hot photos are usually fake or scams of some sort[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NoBuglyFitches;2890868]With all due respect, I don't know her or your relationship so the following is just a general FYI. On SB boards and forums, a story like this is one suggested tactic to get a guy to raise the PPM: tell him about another guy who "stepped up. " And if the guy doesn't volunteer that raise, she takes the off-ramp saying "I didn't like him so I won't see him again." Would she really turn down another thousand dollars plus extras because the 55-yo guy was showing her off to the waitress?[/QUOTE]That's so interesting. I was also puzzled that somebody would turn down such a lavish gift just to hang out and bear with a boor. Now it makes sense.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2890879]I obviously had an account. My point is I don't keep an account any longer than I'm willing to pay which is generally a month. The answer to your second question is yes but I'll let you figure that out.[/QUOTE]Recently was only my 2nd time using Seeking. I'll only use it when I need it, but I would never do that for a specific reason. There are all sorts of verification you can get on Seeking, anywhere from ID verified, to photo verification check. Also, if you get the criminal background check, the icon stays on your profile, but it also tells female members when the check was performed. Then also they have them for social media accounts like Instagram, etc. But maybe more importantly is when your profile was created. "Member since" at least indicates you likely have not engaged in any behavior that someone felt was bad enough that they reported you, and Seeking banned your account. From my perspective, I'd think it way less likely a member who has been on there for 2 years would be running a scam, as opposed to a profile that is 2 days old.

Anyway, I would imagine if you delete your account, getting some of those verification back if you created a "new account", particularly ID verified and some of the others, would be next to impossible. While I certainly didn't conduct business with all the girls I exchanged messages with, I heard back from almost everyone. And I got a lot of messages from members I was not expecting. And that's considering I did not put my net worth or salary at the maximum setting possible on Seeking. And if I was a woman in this business, regardless of whether I was predatory or legit, I probably would be going for the richest guy possible. I certainly could be wrong, but I'm guessing that a significant number of female members on there won't contact new guy's accounts without any verifications, even if they list their annual income as more than a million, and net worth at more than 100 million. If the girl is legit, I doubt she'd want to put her safety at risk on some guy making grandiose claims, but yet won't even make the effort to get some simple verifications. That being said, I'm sure for those guys who are married, they are terrified about their spouses discovering their dirty little secret, and probably don't want their profiles up a day longer than needed.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2891090] for those guys who are married, they are terrified about their spouses discovering their dirty little secret, and probably don't want their profiles up a day longer than needed. [/QUOTE]Maybe the old profile was blocked or hidden by some hot SBs. Not because you some issue with them -- they simply left-swiped you in favor of other guys. So a new profile gives you a second chance with them.

I also read of Seeking banning or closing down SD profiles that have been active for a few years. Those guys didn't know if they'd accumulated complaints, or Seeking simply decided that this wasn't the kind of user they wanted on their platform. So, maybe it makes sense to delete your account if you won't be using it for a while and then start anew.

My question for FB, which he didn't really answer, was how was he able to view girls' profiles if closed his account. And if keeps some old account open, just for viewing profiles, does he then open a new account and have two open accounts? I thought having more that one account on Seeking was also a violation which could get you banned.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2891090] From my perspective, I'd think it way less likely a member who has been on there for 2 years would be running a scam, as opposed to a profile that is 2 days old.[/QUOTE]For paid members, there is an option to hide how long you've been there. I suspect it's commonly used so most SD profiles would be age unknown to SBs. But when you stop paying, that info becomes visible again.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2891090] And I got a lot of messages from members I was not expecting. [/QUOTE]Scammers and rinsers target new SD accounts, watch out for that.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2882378]Midwestern, BlueMoon, DramaFree et al. Do tell. Let's get some more retrospectives in here. I know you are killing it out there![/QUOTE]Highlight of last year was Spain for me. Had a good sa experience on my first trip, but met a great girl on the second. More of an alt look. Short hair, piercing. So not really my style but she was so open and sexy we just hit it off. I had such a good time I went back to spain instead of an FKK trip I had planned a few months later to see her. Hard to imagine a better time than being on a rooftop bar with a sexy girl having a few drinks late into the morning and trying to speak bad spanish haha. We even did it on the roof of the hotel one night, which was probably the most memorable experience. Overall 3 really good experiences and 1 average in spain. Plus the p4 p scene is there too.

In the fall had some local success, although one was my first std scare. Still had a memorable experience where I was playing with her standing up and she was literally dripping down her leg onto the floor.

Last year was quality over quantity. I feel like I got too excited finding sa in 22 and was trying to fuck too much. Looking back most encounters that year were quick 1-2 hours at the hotel only but the GFE is more fun.

My thinking is the exact opposite. I want them to think I'm a seeking virgin and therefore gullible and inexperienced. I do this by writing a somewhat substantial, wity / pithy profile and no scammer would spend near that much time or have that much wit. I've never had an issue with a lack of any kind of varification and wouldn't pay a dime to do so with hacking scandals happening every other week these days. If I'm really interested in a girl and she doesn't reply I just chalk it up to the fact that she has hundreds of choices and I don't fit the bill. Nothing personal, move along now. If she is interested I take a pic of my license plate making very sure the badges are readable right after we agree on a nuetral meeting place and she knows I'm the real deal.

I've said this before, I have a girl account that I use to scope out the competition. After using it for about 20 min I convinced myself I'm a catch (to sound arrogant as fuck) but it's true. There are way too many guys out of their league and / or way too old to be chasing 20 yr olds. I haven't delected that account but I probably should as I haven't logged in in well over a year.

I will not go into how to view profiles without a paid account because I don't want that loophole shut down. I'm assuming that since most of you are successful enough to spends hundreds or more for a single date, you're intelligent enough to make said money and are therefore intelligent enough to figure it out yourself. If you can't then just call me a liar, I'm good with that.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2891090]Recently was only my 2nd time using Seeking. I'll only use it when I need it, but I would never do that for a specific reason. There are all sorts of verification you can get on Seeking, anywhere from ID verified, to photo verification check. Also, if you get the criminal background check, the icon stays on your profile, but it also tells female members when the check was performed. Then also they have them for social media accounts like Instagram, etc. But maybe more importantly is when your profile was created. "Member since" at least indicates you likely have not engaged in any behavior that someone felt was bad enough that they reported you, and Seeking banned your account. From my perspective, I'd think it way less likely a member who has been on there for 2 years would be running a scam, as opposed to a profile that is 2 days old.

Anyway, I would imagine if you delete your account, getting some of those verification back if you created a "new account", particularly ID verified and some of the others, would be next to impossible. While I certainly didn't conduct business with all the girls I exchanged messages with, I heard back from almost everyone. And I got a lot of messages from members I was not expecting. And that's considering I did not put my net worth or salary at the maximum setting possible on Seeking. And if I was a woman in this business, regardless of whether I was predatory or legit, I probably would be going for the richest guy possible. I certainly could be wrong, but I'm guessing that a significant number of female members on there won't contact new guy's accounts without any verifications, even if they list their annual income as more than a million, and net worth at more than 100 million. If the girl is legit, I doubt she'd want to put her safety at risk on some guy making grandiose claims, but yet won't even make the effort to get some simple verifications. That being said, I'm sure for those guys who are married, they are terrified about their spouses discovering their dirty little secret, and probably don't want their profiles up a day longer than needed.[/QUOTE]

For me it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of what nationality.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2890826]Yeah right now I scoff at these guys that pay for platonic. I don't know I would ever get there. But I can def visualize myself at 80 w a hot live in girlfriend and we don't ever have serious sex. Just watch her booping around in her bikini. Giving me the doe eyes at dinner. Sweet kisses cuddling and affection. Maybe a BJ a couple times a month. I'the be good. Happy to pay her and keep her happy for that.[/QUOTE]

I do the same. Lurk around, find profiles that interest me, make a secret note.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2891193]My thinking is the exact opposite. I want them to think I'm a seeking virgin and therefore gullible and inexperienced. I do this by writing a somewhat substantial, wity / pithy profile and no scammer would spend near that much time or have that much wit. I've never had an issue with a lack of any kind of varification and wouldn't pay a dime to do so with hacking scandals happening every other week these days. If I'm really interested in a girl and she doesn't reply I just chalk it up to the fact that she has hundreds of choices and I don't fit the bill. Nothing personal, move along now. If she is interested I take a pic of my license plate making very sure the badges are readable right after we agree on a nuetral meeting place and she knows I'm the real deal.

I've said this before, I have a girl account that I use to scope out the competition. After using it for about 20 min I convinced myself I'm a catch (to sound arrogant as fuck) but it's true. There are way too many guys out of their league and / or way too old to be chasing 20 yr olds. I haven't delected that account but I probably should as I haven't logged in in well over a year.

I will not go into how to view profiles without a paid account because I don't want that loophole shut down. I'm assuming that since most of you are successful enough to spends hundreds or more for a single date, you're intelligent enough to make said money and are therefore intelligent enough to figure it out yourself. If you can't then just call me a liar, I'm good with that.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NoBuglyFitches;2890863]How did you see her profile if you'd deleted your account? Is it possible to browse seeking profiles without an active (unpaid) account? [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2891193] I will not go into how to view profiles without a paid account because I don't want that loophole shut down. [/QUOTE]What loophole? I thought you found a way to browse profiles without an UNPAID account, I. E. Without logging in at all. Like you can read this forum without logging in. Perhaps I'm missing something here. It certainly possible to create a dummy / lurker account on SA. It's also possible to let your paid subscription expire and continue to use that account to view profiles. But when you make a new account and a new subscription, SA may detect that you now have more than one active account, which can get you banned.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2891193] I have a girl account that I use to scope out the competition. After using it for about 20 min I convinced myself I'm a catch [/QUOTE]This can also get you banned if SA algos catch you. Also, many SD profiles (competition) are hidden.

[QUOTE=NoBuglyFitches;2891384]What loophole? I thought you found a way to browse profiles without an UNPAID account, I. E. Without logging in at all. Like you can read this forum without logging in. Perhaps I'm missing something here.[/QUOTE]I think you're confusing couple of things here. You don't have to have a paid account to browse. I don't have one, although I used to, and I am able to browse as much as I want to. But, I do have to sign in though. So, browse for free while logged in. Anyway, that's how I was able to see this one with the cum on her nose! [B]Hahahahaha[/B]!

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2890603]Try as I might, I have yet to find this unicorn that is the man willing to pay a girl for a platonic sugar relationship.
[/QUOTE]About 6 months ago, saw some interview clips of 0 nly-Faan entertainers making a lot of $, but stating openly (with disdain) that they hated their "customers". With that simp scene raking in so much money, it really doesn't surprise me to have guys paying to be in the same space as women. Doesn't make sense to me, but whatever works.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2890769]I recently had a 55 year old guy take my SB on a platonic dinner date and paid her 1 K.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NoBuglyFitches;2890868]Would she really turn down another thousand dollars plus extras because the 55-yo guy was showing her off to the waitress?[/QUOTE]It may sound silly, but if these guys with money to burn treat the ladies that poorly, they will get turfed. This whole scene is not *just* about the money. Just how we're not just into the bedroom action with pretty robots.

F.

There are some complete douche bags out there. One of the reasons I like seeking so much is to hear the stories some girls have. "You must prove to that you're worth my time," "I only want anal sex and I'll pay you 10 k for it," "I can only see you for lunch a hotel because my wife might find out. ".

That must be music to the ears of some 20 yr old trying to reconcile what she's got herself into.

[QUOTE=Foolish;2891542]About 6 months ago, saw some interview clips of 0 nly-Faan entertainers making a lot of $, but stating openly (with disdain) that they hated their "customers". With that simp scene raking in so much money, it really doesn't surprise me to have guys paying to be in the same space as women. Doesn't make sense to me, but whatever works.



It may sound silly, but if these guys with money to burn treat the ladies that poorly, they will get turfed. This whole scene is not *just* about the money. Just how we're not just into the bedroom action with pretty robots.

F.[/QUOTE]

Few more from my SBs.

I will buy your used unwashed panties for 100 EUR.

My wife is out of town. Can I bring my 3 year old to our date?

You look like my wife's sister. I always wanted to fuck her. You are the closest.

I have an office intern I can bring along for threesome.

Seriously. Some are hilarious. Some are outright stupid.

But, my SB and I have fun discussing these.

I have had a potential SB show up stoned for meet and greet. Nope. Walked away.

Another wanted to bring her employer's baby (she worked as babysitter) to our 2nd date which was supposed to be non platonic. She seemed decent atmeet and greet and then went downhill with that one request.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2891628]There are some complete douche bags out there. One of the reasons I like seeking so much is to hear the stories some girls have. "You must prove to that you're worth my time," "I only want anal sex and I'll pay you 10 k for it," "I can only see you for lunch a hotel because my wife might find out. ".

That must be music to the ears of some 20 yr old trying to reconcile what she's got herself into.[/QUOTE]

Met what I thought was a 9 from her pics. Turns how she weighed at least double and had so many track marks on her arms I could beilve she was walking.

Met a girl who demanded to be compensated for a meet and greet dinner. When I asked my she said that's her rate and her time is valuable. Lmmfao.

Met another girl who was at least 10 yrs older than her pics and was looking for seed money to start an enema clinic. I can't make this shit up, I'm not that creative. Also wouldn't stop complaining about how hard it is to survive my my city but had no job and no intentions of getting a job.

Met a girl and told her how happy I was generally with what I've been able to pull from the site. She asked me why I would say such a thing and blocked me.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2891850]Few more from my SBs.

I will buy your used unwashed panties for 100 EUR.

My wife is out of town. Can I bring my 3 year old to our date?

You look like my wife's sister. I always wanted to fuck her. You are the closest.

I have an office intern I can bring along for threesome.

Seriously. Some are hilarious. Some are outright stupid.

But, my SB and I have fun discussing these.

I have had a potential SB show up stoned for meet and greet. Nope. Walked away.

Another wanted to bring her employer's baby (she worked as babysitter) to our 2nd date which was supposed to be non platonic. She seemed decent atmeet and greet and then went downhill with that one request.[/QUOTE]

All of these girls have money at the top of their list. If their motivation was fame instead of fortune, then they'd be spending their time practicing for American Idol, instead of posting profiles in Seeking. And if their motivation was sex instead of money, they'd be out at a bar every night, hitting on as many men as possible, or posting profiles on Ashley Madison instead. Money always comes first. That being said, there's absolutely no logic in the argument that if these girls are willing to shag strangers for money, then there's no way they'd be willing to go to dinner with them for money, or give them a legit, clothed massage for money, or anything else that involves less physical contact than sex. In no universe does that claim hold water. Now there may be some things they aren't willing to do for money, such as commit an armed bank robbery. But if it's any lesser act than sex, of course they are going to be willing to do it, because it's less intense and doesn't require as much effort on their part, and they are still getting paid. And it's certainly possible that they also dislike their customers who pay them for non sexual services.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2892012]All of these girls have money at the top of their list. If their motivation was fame instead of fortune, then they'd be spending their time practicing for American Idol, instead of posting profiles in Seeking. And if their motivation was sex instead of money, they'd be out at a bar every night, hitting on as many men as possible, or posting profiles on Ashley Madison instead. Money always comes first. That being said, there's absolutely no logic in the argument that if these girls are willing to shag strangers for money, then there's no way they'd be willing to go to dinner with them for money, or give them a legit, clothed massage for money, or anything else that involves less physical contact than sex. In no universe does that claim hold water. Now there may be some things they aren't willing to do for money, such as commit an armed bank robbery. But if it's any lesser act than sex, of course they are going to be willing to do it, because it's less intense and doesn't require as much effort on their part, and they are still getting paid. And it's certainly possible that they also dislike their customers who pay them for non sexual services.[/QUOTE]Welcome, friend, to the Seekingverse. Here you will find occasional additional acts of delusion, including:

- she's my girlfriend now.

- I still give her money / gifts but if I didn't we'd still be a thing.

- we bareback but she only does it with me.

- she loves old guys way more than guys her age. They are sexually better. She even told me so.

Don't worry. Delusion exists on the girl side too. Maybe even more!!

- this isn't sex work.

- I know what I'm worth (no. You don't sweetie. That's why you have to insist it. Because nobody believes it. It's less than you think.)

- A man on this site, of all sites, will pay me generously for platonic friendship.

- I'm his only sexual interest right now. I've got him down pat.

- he travels so much because of work.

I won't argue that money is their primary reason for being there. After that there are a million reasons they stick around. I don't see the point of that entire paragraph.

[QUOTE=VanessasClient;2892012]All of these girls have money at the top of their list. If their motivation was fame instead of fortune, then they'd be spending their time practicing for American Idol, instead of posting profiles in Seeking. And if their motivation was sex instead of money, they'd be out at a bar every night, hitting on as many men as possible, or posting profiles on Ashley Madison instead. Money always comes first. That being said, there's absolutely no logic in the argument that if these girls are willing to shag strangers for money, then there's no way they'd be willing to go to dinner with them for money, or give them a legit, clothed massage for money, or anything else that involves less physical contact than sex. In no universe does that claim hold water. Now there may be some things they aren't willing to do for money, such as commit an armed bank robbery. But if it's any lesser act than sex, of course they are going to be willing to do it, because it's less intense and doesn't require as much effort on their part, and they are still getting paid. And it's certainly possible that they also dislike their customers who pay them for non sexual services.[/QUOTE]

I can agree with most but I saw a girl for a few months and never gave her a dime. I own a business that practically everybody in the world needs one or multiple times and I'd do her "favors" when necessary. I cut it off with her because she was bat shit crazy.

Feelings do develop on both sides, should they instantly disappear when the quid pro you is gone? Depends. 90% of the time I'd say yes but the girl who talked about getting married would have stuck around if I were willing to as the bigger prize are all my assets not a few hundred bucks when we screw.

Some just want a good time at a nice restaurant or a show that guys their age just can't do. I've heard this more than once. That doesn't mean we're monogamous and I've never made such a request / demand because I'm realistic about what this is. But when they start crying during a breakup it's more than a transaction.

I had a girl seem to take genuine pleasure in breaking it off with me, she knew I was emotional invested. It was early in my seeking career and she did it in a very public place so I couldn't go nuts (not my style anyway). Aside from that I get what I want, real, fake, delusional, etc. From that site.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2892099]Welcome, friend, to the Seekingverse. Here you will find occasional additional acts of delusion, including:

- she's my girlfriend now.

- I still give her money / gifts but if I didn't we'd still be a thing.

- we bareback but she only does it with me.

- she loves old guys way more than guys her age. They are sexually better. She even told me so.

Don't worry. Delusion exists on the girl side too. Maybe even more!!

- this isn't sex work..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2892211]I can agree with most but I saw a girl for a few months and never gave her a dime. I own a business that practically everybody in the world needs one or multiple times and I'd do her "favors" when necessary. I cut it off with her because she was bat shit crazy.

Feelings do develop on both sides, should they instantly disappear when the quid pro you is gone? Depends. 90% of the time I'd say yes but the girl who talked about getting married would have stuck around if I were willing to as the bigger prize are all my assets not a few hundred bucks when we screw.

Some just want a good time at a nice restaurant or a show that guys their age just can't do. I've heard this more than once. That doesn't mean we're monogamous and I've never made such a request / demand because I'm realistic about what this is. But when they start crying during a breakup it's more than a transaction.

I had a girl seem to take genuine pleasure in breaking it off with me, she knew I was emotional invested. It was early in my seeking career and she did it in a very public place so I couldn't go nuts (not my style anyway). Aside from that I get what I want, real, fake, delusional, etc. From that site.[/QUOTE]I actually wasn't talking about you. But I do want to say that when you say these things that follow:

I own a business that practically everybody in the world needs one or multiple times and I'd do her "favors" when necessary.

The girl who talked about getting married would have stuck around if I were willing to as the bigger prize are all my assets not a few hundred bucks when we screw.

You realize those things are what I'm talking about right? You're just using different words and different forms of currency.

Look I'm not judging anyone on this forum (yes I am). I just think it's important to be lucid and clear eyed about what's what. Pretense isn't free. The minute you start living in a narrative that doesn't map to reality is the minute you expose yourself.

I'm not saying seeking girls are conmen, but this is how conmen work. Nobody ever thinks they're a mark. And not all conmen are awful horrible people. I've known many girls who do this kind of work (yes it's work; not all work requires a pay stub or a time sheet) for the best reasons including needing to take care of ailing parents, kids at home, or to fund a business venture so they can stop sucking old dick for 3000 dollars a month. But strip away all the embellishments and at the end of the day 99 percent of this reduces to an older guy exchanging financial resources of some sort to a girl trading her her youth and beauty in the form of sexual exchange. I'm ok with it. Just don't delude yourself into thinking the extra variables change the equation.

I'm not arguing or upset. A girl once told me that the appeal of the site is the lack of pretense. Everyone knows why they're there. Girls are there for "help" in whatever form that means, usually money. We're there for, well, whatever. I'm seeing more profiles that say, "I'm open to what happens over time. " That's girl code for "I'm ready to bag a rich husband. " Not on a typical 21 yr old profile but late twenties / early 30's who's biological clocks are ticking, family or social pressure, etc. A good friend with two gorgeous daughters once told me that he taught his girls early on that there are nice rich guys and nice poor guys, so they may as well get a rich one. My point is there are girls using that site as a (mostly traditional) dating sight. Probably not in your 18-23 yr old filter range but I am seeing this in profiles of more, mature (readers older) girls. There are just too many reasons to generalize. I will certainly concede that if tye sugar disappears the chance of them stuck around is close to nil, at best maybe they give you the occasional sympathy bang but they're definitely shopping for another reliable source in the meantime time.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2892373]I actually wasn't talking about you. But I do want to say that when you say these things that follow:

I own a business that practically everybody in the world needs one or multiple times and I'd do her "favors" when necessary.

The girl who talked about getting married would have stuck around if I were willing to as the bigger prize are all my assets not a few hundred bucks when we screw.

You realize those things are what I'm talking about right? You're just using different words and different forms of currency.

Look I'm not judging anyone on this forum (yes I am). I just think it's important to be lucid and clear eyed about what's what. Pretense isn't free. The minute you start living in a narrative that doesn't map to reality is the minute you expose yourself.

I'm not saying seeking girls are conmen, but this is how conmen work. Nobody ever thinks they're a mark. And not all conmen are awful horrible people. I've known many girls who do this kind of work (yes it's work; not all work requires a pay stub or a time sheet) for the best reasons including needing to take care of ailing parents, kids at home, or to fund a business venture so they can stop sucking old dick for 3000 dollars a month. But strip away all the embellishments and at the end of the day 99 percent of this reduces to an older guy exchanging financial resources of some sort to a girl trading her her youth and beauty in the form of sexual exchange. I'm ok with it. Just don't delude yourself into thinking the extra variables change the equation.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2892489]I'm not arguing or upset. A girl once told me that the appeal of the site is the lack of pretense. Everyone knows why they're there. Girls are there for "help" in whatever form that means, usually money. We're there for, well, whatever. I'm seeing more profiles that say, "I'm open to what happens over time. " That's girl code for "I'm ready to bag a rich husband. " Not on a typical 21 yr old profile but late twenties / early 30's who's biological clocks are ticking, family or social pressure, etc. A good friend with two gorgeous daughters once told me that he taught his girls early on that there are nice rich guys and nice poor guys, so they may as well get a rich one. My point is there are girls using that site as a (mostly traditional) dating sight. Probably not in your 18-23 yr old filter range but I am seeing this in profiles of more, mature (readers older) girls. There are just too many reasons to generalize. I will certainly concede that if tye sugar disappears the chance of them stuck around is close to nil, at best maybe they give you the occasional sympathy bang but they're definitely shopping for another reliable source in the meantime time.[/QUOTE]I agree with everything you wrote. And I'm quite alright with what being on Seeking means for me and the girls I bang there. I'm fully aware girls are trading their sexual appeal today because it's a fading asset. I actually admire girls who have the foresight to embrace this earlier in their lives, and bag a rich guy while doing so doesn't mean dating their dad. You know who I'm talking about. The smartest hot sorority girls in my college got linked early and hard to a guy who was clearly on the way up (Eg dad is a CEO and son will take over one day). The dumbest ones got drunk through their twenties and got desperate by 35. I am now middle aged and I have female friends who are still single at my age and it's sad. They always, always ask if I have friends for them. And I always play coy and think 2 things. First, some of my friends know about my whoring and there's no way I'm cross pollinating that into another friend group. And second, none of my friends my age want to date women their age. Some of these women spent their prime years trying to be girl bosses or whatever and talking about how they don't need a man, only to wake up at 45 desperate, unhappily childless, and with poor romantic prospects. I have no idea how I got on this tangent, but I'm writing on the phone, so I'm just going to hit upload.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2892373]The minute you start living in a narrative that doesn't map to reality is the minute you expose yourself.[/QUOTE]AP, do you see what you are doing? You are injecting YOUR reality into people you do not even know.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2892373]I'm not saying seeking girls are conmen, but this is how conmen work. Nobody ever thinks they're a mark.[/QUOTE]Ok, but there are con men who are not on seeking too.

The issue I have with stereotyping with seeking is people say the women on seeking are all about the money. That is fine, but where is the world where women are not all about the money? Because IMO that world does not exist.

And with men with wealth, how would they get wealthy if they were not able to spot scam artists?

If you are saying do not trust the women at all, then all the women on seeking are hookers. I was not always right, but I think you need to have a scale of trust and put the women in the right category just like you do with escorts. I am not worried about hiding my wallet with a well reviewed $1000 an hour hooker, but I am with a street walker.

When I met women, I was analyzing what I wanted from them, how much I could trust them, and if they suited my needs. So the lowest form is you have straight up sex for money with no affection. Then there were friendly acquaintances where I knew a little about their life and there was some affection but it was mostly money for sex. That was kind of like a short term sugar baby, more trustworthy than a straight up hooker but more time and money would not mean more intimacy.

Then you have the deeper friendships with deeper trust. You trust keeping your wallet out. You trust going bare. You trust they are going to show up. You trust them that if you give them an monthly allowance they are not going to be hounding you for more money every time you meet. You trust that they are not going to have frequent costly emergencies. You trust when you see them they are going to sexually care for you. If you give more time and money, there is appreciation versus a scheme to get more. This is a real sugar baby, and it is not common. It is a true friendship, and I did not find many women on the site that were this trustworthy whom I really wanted to befriend.

Even rarer is when you have near complete trust and you have a woman in the GF / wife zone. That is the rarest of all.

I think what you are trying to say is that guys delude themselves into trusting the women too much early on. Guys are so anxious to have that GF / wife / SB woman that they overlook the red flags and get burned, and that does happen. It has happened to me many times.

But I do not think the answer to that is to tell yourself all women on seeking are hookers or con women.

I think you tell yourself to slow down. Do the shit tests. Get outside opinions on the woman. Make her earn that trust versus just giving it to her. Don't ignore the red flags even though part of your brain that wants that special woman is telling you to bury them.

The issue I have with calling all the women on seeking con artists and hookers, and there is no doubt there are many there, is that you miss out on the very best women there.

Not really related to seeking but interesting nonetheless. A successful middle aged women past her physical prime is rarely going to settle for hot stud monkey boy as a long term commitment. Any middle aged man in the same boat isn't looking for someone his own age (with very few exceptions). When I was a corporate drone I knew a few, frankly the men all had personality flaws they were able to hide from the women they connected with before she knew what she got herself into. I'm willing to bet most are divorced by now but I don't keep in touch with any and I have no clue. I know some very successful women, acquaintances and family members, but I wouldn't introduce them to anyone I know even though I want the best for my family. It takes a a certain level of ambition, aggressiveness, bitchiness whatever you want to call it and most men's egos can't deal with it. I know them well enough to know that their personality quirks are not conducive to long term relationships (at least to anybody I know). Like you, I play coy and don't get involved.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2892709]I agree with everything you wrote. And I'm quite alright with what being on Seeking means for me and the girls I bang there. I'm fully aware girls are trading their sexual appeal today because it's a fading asset. I actually admire girls who have the foresight to embrace this earlier in their lives, and bag a rich guy while doing so doesn't mean dating their dad. You know who I'm talking about. The smartest hot sorority girls in my college got linked early and hard to a guy who was clearly on the way up (Eg dad is a CEO and son will take over one day). The dumbest ones got drunk through their twenties and got desperate by 35. I am now middle aged and I have female friends who are still single at my age and it's sad. They always, always ask if I have friends for them. And I always play coy and think 2 things. First, some of my friends know about my whoring and there's no way I'm cross pollinating that into another friend group. And second, none of my friends my age want to date women their age. Some of these women spent their prime years trying to be girl bosses or whatever and talking about how they don't need a man, only to wake up at 45 desperate, unhappily childless, and with poor romantic prospects. I have no idea how I got on this tangent, but I'm writing on the phone, so I'm just going to hit upload.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2892811]Not really related to seeking but ….. It takes a a certain level of ambition, aggressiveness, bitchiness whatever you want to call it and most men's egos can't deal with it..[/QUOTE]This really did go off on a tangent, sorry. Sometimes when you write on your phone it goes in weird places. But this is interesting.

The problem with some, not all, of the career women I know (and in my circle I know a lot) is that they've convinced themselves they're single because guys can't handle a powerful woman like them and the men are intimidated. Or they are telling themselves that and hoping men believe it. I'm telling you it's such a thin veneer. I worked in Fortune 500 with some of these ladies and have known them almost 2 decades. The problem isn't that guys are intimidated by them (I myself am married to a successful professional with an advanced degree from a top 10 university). The problem is that the whole "guys are intimidated by a strong powerful female like me" thing is boring and there's no way to honestly coexist with someone whose core life narrative orbits around that idea. You either have to pretend to honor and celebrate it (despite seeing how thin it is, how desperate some of these women are) or you are cast as the villain in the story, a guy who just can't handle such a strong woman. You know what I do? Honestly? I pretend to honor and celebrate it. And these women love me. They are the ones asking if I have friends like me I can set them up with. But inside I have moral and cognitive dissonance because I really just want to tell them they'd be far more attractive as partners if they'd just be honest about their needs and wants, which requires some vulnerability.

Which brings us back to Seeking. I see a similar form of delusion here at times. Not from you, FB, but from some. It's true that I don't know the people here personally and there are exceptions to every rule. But let's be honest, everybody thinks they're an exception.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2892731]AP, do you see what you are doing? You are injecting YOUR reality into people you do not even know.

Ok, but there are con men who are not on seeking too.

The issue I have with stereotyping with seeking is people say the women on seeking are all about the money. That is fine, but where is the world where women are not all about the money? Because IMO that world does not exist.

And with men with wealth, how would they get wealthy if they were not able to spot scam artists?
[/QUOTE]I have no qualm with you. You're a core contributor and interlocutor here. People like you keep this thread alive and interesting. This reply is just because it's an interesting conversation. And it's ok to see things differently.

I only kept a portion of your reply so it doesn't take up all that space. I agree with the notion that men and women all exist on some spectrum. It's an obvious point to me that you can't paint everyone with the same brush. But parsing details on a chat board is hard.

Where I think we see things differently is the notion you have that you can effectively suss out people's intentions with careful observation. I don't think that jibes with how duplicitous humans really can be. Half the men on here are married for gods sake. I have a whole alternate reality going on, complete with phone numbers, accounts, password protected apps, and the like. I might be further on the duplicity spectrum than most, but I assume as a baseline that most people ID meet on Seeking reside on that spectrum too. These relationships usually start with pseudonyms and google voice numbers and might become more transparent from there. But again, at the core of it, a girl selling beauty and sex for resources, and a guy giving resources for that access, are engaged in a relationship that's far more likely than not to be an exchange of fantasy and not two people living at the intersection of their respective unvarnished realities.

Working on my upcoming schedule.

The squirter I met earlier was trying to meet me. I technically could meet her and was exploring options. I floated "Hey, how about this time I get a nice hotel with sauna and stuff and we spend the whole night?

She goes "of course. That would be nice but that means we have to rethink financials".

I responded "Ouch. I thought we both enjoyed the non-transactional nature of our arrangement last time we met. ". She goes "well, I have to come to you, commute time and whole night. It adds up, you know".

Amd, I am like "Ok. It is a bit of an effort for me to divert from my path and come see you. So, do ourselves a favor Go ahead and plan your day / night without me in the picture. I will continue on my path".

Boom. Done. She could have made 300, squirtrd a ton and enjoyed all the other perks. This whole shit of "my time is valuable" is so delusional.

Got a theory about this. It seems to me, around director level. Nobody tells them no. Their idea is stupid, their shit don't stink, etc. Well the wife (or husband) didn't get that memo and still expects the trash taken out, dishes washed, dog walked, whatever. That's a very big reason why their are so many affluent divorces. It's not just physical and mental changes that occur over time. There's a large social and socioeconomic factor. Power at work is very intoxicating.

I'd say 40% of the director level / business owners I know are divorced and I doubt that would change any time soon. Thank God we can trade in omfir a newer model with less miles. Much more difficult to do the same.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2892840]This really did go off on a tangent, sorry. Sometimes when you write on your phone it goes in weird places. But this is interesting.

The problem with some, not all, of the career women I know (and in my circle I know a lot) is that they've convinced themselves they're single because guys can't handle a powerful woman like them and the men are intimidated. Or they are telling themselves that and hoping men believe it. I'm telling you it's such a thin veneer. I worked in Fortune 500 with some of these ladies and have known them almost 2 decades. The problem isn't that guys are intimidated by them (I myself am married to a successful professional with an advanced degree from a top 10 university). The problem is that the whole "guys are intimidated by a stronger sau 40powerful female like me" thing is boring and there's no way to honestly coexist with someone whose core life narrative orbits around that idea. You either have to pretend to honor and celebrate it (despite seeing how thin it is, how desperate some of these women are) or you are cast as the villain in the story, a guy who just can't handle such a strong woman. You know what I do? Honestly? I pretend to honor and celebrate it. And these women love me. They are the ones asking if I have friends like me I can set them up with. But inside I have moral and cognitive dissonance because I really just want to tell them they'd be far more attractive as partners if they'd just be honest about their needs and wants, which requires some vulnerability.

Which brings us back to Seeking. I see a similar form of delusion here at times. Not from you, FB, but from some. It's true that I don't know the people here personally and there are exceptions to every rule. But let's be honest, everybody thinks they're an exception.[/QUOTE]

Just a mild reminder of the quid pro quo thing. Not that I'm any more desirable or have anymore game but I've never given more than a "standard" date if they spend the night. I've willingly over paid and they're expected the same thing later but I generally move on.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2892877]Working on my upcoming schedule.

The squirter I met earlier was trying to meet me. I technically could meet her and was exploring options. I floated "Hey, how about this time I get a nice hotel with sauna and stuff and we spend the whole night?

She goes "of course. That would be nice but that means we have to rethink financials".

I responded "Ouch. I thought we both enjoyed the non-transactional nature of our arrangement last time we met. ". She goes "well, I have to come to you, commute time and whole night. It adds up, you know".

Amd, I am like "Ok. It is a bit of an effort for me to divert from my path and come see you. So, do ourselves a favor Go ahead and plan your day / night without me in the picture. I will continue on my path".

Boom. Done. She could have made 300, squirtrd a ton and enjoyed all the other perks. This whole shit of "my time is valuable" is so delusional.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2892842]I have no qualm with you. You're a core contributor and interlocutor here. People like you keep this thread alive and interesting. This reply is just because it's an interesting conversation. And it's ok to see things differently.[/QUOTE]I feel the same way. There was no malice intended in my post, just a different perspective. I want everyone to get the best experiences possible out of seeking.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2892842]Where I think we see things differently is the notion you have that you can effectively suss out people's intentions with careful observation. I don't think that jibes with how duplicitous humans really can be. Half the men on here are married for gods sake. I have a whole alternate reality going on, complete with phone numbers, accounts, password protected apps, and the like. I might be further on the duplicity spectrum than most, but I assume as a baseline that most people ID meet on Seeking reside on that spectrum too. These relationships usually start with pseudonyms and google voice numbers and might become more transparent from there. But again, at the core of it, a girl selling beauty and sex for resources, and a guy giving resources for that access, are engaged in a relationship that's far more likely than not to be an exchange of fantasy and not two people living at the intersection of their respective unvarnished realities.[/QUOTE]Okay, I see where you are coming from. Steve wrote something about "keeping the fantasy alive", and I am like I am beyond a fantasy, but when you are married, and you want to ramp up the intensity, it needs to be a fantasy.

In my case, when I was married, I only had sugar babies in the USA and I cannot recall any time getting burned trusting them. They were usually pretty hot and had other guys more than willing to step into my shoes. I guess you could say I set limits and told the women I was married and we all knew how far the relationship could be stretched and did not go beyond that. There were issues with other sugar babies I had but for some reason not with any of the women I met off of seeking.

Of course, there were the ones who showed themselves to be untrustworthy early on and when you talk places like Colombia or other countries where there are so many attractive women and so much less money, getting a well to do sugar daddy replacement is much harder. I could see being more skeptical with trusting a woman in places like that.

But I had sugar babies in other countries and for the most part, my trust was more than reciprocated, and it led to incredibly fun and intimate times.

I get it though. It is not easy to pick out what people / women to trust. I can see guys saying trust no one to protect themselves. I am just saying IMO it is not always the best way to be and certainly not the only way to be.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2892877]that means we have to rethink financials".

I responded "Ouch. I thought we both enjoyed the non-transactional nature of our arrangement last time we met. ". She goes "well, I have to come to you, commute time and whole night. It adds up, you know".


[/QUOTE]I really do not have an ax to grind on this topic. It's just a minor topic for me. But it's germane to the discussion.

This is an almost perfect example of the point I've been making about the intersection of delusion and desire on both sides. The words "I thought that we" are the hallmark of so many conversations recounted here.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2892911]Got a theory about this. It seems to me, around director level. Nobody tells them no. Their idea is stupid, their shit don't stink, etc. Well the wife (or husband) didn't get that memo and still expects the trash taken out, dishes washed, dog walked, whatever. That's a very big reason why their are so many affluent divorces. It's not just physical and mental changes that occur over time. There's a large social and socioeconomic factor. Power at work is very intoxicating..[/QUOTE]I have another theory. How's this? It's the story they need to tell themselves to explain their existence.

A girl who says she's unhappily single approaching middle age because she squandered her youth and looks, and is simply no longer as attractive to guys her age is a girl who is being honest. But damn that's a hard hard reality and life story chapter to confront daily.

Enter the narrative. No, she's single because she's strong and powerful and most men just can't handle a strong powerful woman like her. She's gets to play the role of noble victim in this story.

Think that might be it?

I am not willing to get into this debate / discussion / opinion. Whatever you may call it.

I am 200% certain seeking is quid pro quo as far as I am concerned. It could mean something else for someone else but that's his prerogative. I have no issues with that. Neither should I have an opinion about it. His life, his money, his sugar babes. Let him do whatever he wants. Unless someone asks for advice, I don't offer that.

Me saying "I thought. " doesn't mean that I really think so. It's a polite way of reminding the girl while leaving the door open for her to respond with what she thinks. To me, my politeness has given me more pussy than my wallet.

But, as you can see, I can stand firm when it counts. Including this response;).

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2892954]I really do not have an ax to grind on this topic. It's just a minor topic for me. But it's germane to the discussion.

This is an almost perfect example of the point I've been making about the intersection of delusion and desire on both sides. The words "I thought that we" are the hallmark of so many conversations recounted here.[/QUOTE]

Seems like I say this a lot but there are just as many situations as there are girls. Everybody has different motivations and it's hard to generalize. A family member very close to me is very successful, was married to a guy nowhere near as but his family had real money. He was expected to provide her with a monthly allowance. It was a cultural thing, she didn't need it and he didn't care because it was dad's money. She was very particular, wanted the best of everything and deserved it in her mind because she's intelligent, works really hard and can afford it with ot without him. Marriage didn't work because he wanted a simpler life or didn't have the ambition, didn't want the bells and whistles and 5 star whatever. I don't think she considers herself a victim and I haven't had this particular conversation with her but I suspect she realizes she's made some personal decisions that have affected her overall happiness. Almost too old to have a kid now and I know she wanted one. No one to vacation with and come home (to her beautiful home) to. In many ways our lives are parallel but I never wanted kids and my house is a panty dropper. That is until the day comes that no amount of tangible pluses overcome my lack of physical / mental appeal. Age will always catch up with us sooner or later. Dowrys are also still very common, from man to woman, so for an average guy to bag a legitimately successful woman can be very difficult in my particular example. He needs to prove he's worthy even though the vast majority of unions are purely symbolic, the dowry needs to be displayed in public to save face even though it's generally just given back to the couple by the woman's family.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2893059]I have another theory. How's this? It's the story they need to tell themselves to explain their existence.

A girl who says she's unhappily single approaching middle age because she squandered her youth and looks, and is simply no longer as attractive to guys her age is a girl who is being honest. But damn that's a hard hard reality and life story chapter to confront daily.

Enter the narrative. No, she's single because she's strong and powerful and most men just can't handle a strong powerful woman like her. She's gets to play the role of noble victim in this story.

Think that might be it?[/QUOTE]

Quid pro quo is the ante / entry free. Anything that happens after that depends on the two people involved. It's impossible to generalize. I've had one night stands, platonic dinner dates, multi month "flings" that were basically relationships and I currently see a girl that doesn't want to go out in public but will spend hours chatting, having sex and leaving. They've all worked for me at one point or another or I wouldn't have participated in them. I've taken pics with them but don't have social media so I post nothing and I'd politely ask that they not post pics of me on their sm. Not because I'm embarrassed, rather because as I as small an online presence as possible including pics of any kind of me.

The important thing is you get what you want, preferably without hurting (emotionally or otherwise) someone, and they get something they want in exchange. Two consenting adults, blah, blah, blah.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2893083]I am not willing to get into this debate / discussion / opinion. Whatever you may call it.

I am 200% certain seeking is quid pro quo as far as I am concerned. It could mean something else for someone else but that's his prerogative. I have no issues with that. Neither should I have an opinion about it. His life, his money, his sugar babes. Let him do whatever he wants. Unless someone asks for advice, I don't offer that.

Me saying "I thought. " doesn't mean that I really think so. It's a polite way of reminding the girl while leaving the door open for her to respond with what she thinks. To me, my politeness has given me more pussy than my wallet.

But, as you can see, I can stand firm when it counts. Including this response;).[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2893160]Seems like I say this a lot but there are just as many situations as there are girls. Everybody has different motivations and it's hard to generalize. A family member very close to me is very successful, was married to a guy nowhere near as but his family had real money. He was expected to provide her with a monthly allowance. It was a cultural thing, she didn't need it and he didn't care because it was dad's money. She was very particular, wanted the best of everything and deserved it in her mind because she's intelligent, works really hard and can afford it with ot without him. Marriage didn't work because he wanted a simpler life or didn't have the ambition, didn't want the bells and whistles and 5 star whatever. I don't think she considers herself a victim and I haven't had this particular conversation with her but I suspect she realizes she's made some personal decisions that have affected her overall happiness. Almost too old to have a kid now and I know she wanted one. No one to vacation with and come home (to her beautiful home) to. In many ways our lives are parallel but I never wanted kids and my house is a panty dropper. That is until the day comes that no amount of tangible pluses overcome my lack of physical / mental appeal. Age will always catch up with us sooner or later. Dowrys are also still very common, from man to woman, so for an average guy to bag a legitimately successful woman can be very difficult in my particular example.[/QUOTE]Interesting. I live in a part of LA with a sometimes shocking amount of money. One girl I know came from a rich family and married a guy from a richer family. When they got married the dads got together and bought them a beautiful house, paid off, in a tony part of an already nice area. I remember thinking these people must be so happy not having the stresses that mere mortals have, paying off mortgages and student loans and saving for retirement.

They divorced 3 years and 1 baby later. I was shocked. What problems could they possibly have had? I mean they liked each other enough to get married didn't they? Can't they just live nice lives basking in their privilege and comfort?

But then I realize that's not how life and humans work. It's just like Seeking. Every new girl I do repeats with (a minority) at some point become stale. And then there's that one last visit where I just feel like maybe she's phoning it in, or maybe I am, or both, and I walk away thinking well that's the last time we'll probably see each other again. It's just easier with Seeking because it's an arrangement.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2893319]Interesting. I live in a part of LA with a sometimes shocking amount of money. One girl I know came from a rich family and married a guy from a richer family. When they got married the dads got together and bought them a beautiful house, paid off, in a tony part of an already nice area. I remember thinking these people must be so happy not having the stresses that mere mortals have, paying off mortgages and student loans and saving for retirement.

They divorced 3 years and 1 baby later. I was shocked. What problems could they possibly have had? I mean they liked each other enough to get married didn't they? Can't they just live nice lives basking in their privilege and comfort?

But then I realize that's not how life and humans work. It's just like Seeking. Every new girl I do repeats with (a minority) at some point become stale. And then there's that one last visit where I just feel like maybe she's phoning it in, or maybe I am, or both, and I walk away thinking well that's the last time we'll probably see each other again. It's just easier with Seeking because it's an arrangement.[/QUOTE]That's the beauty of Seeking. Even if you totally ignore the compensation part (not starting that again!) the best part is that both parties know it's temporary. No drama around "is he / she the one". Enjoy your time together whether 1 day or one year and then next next. It's truly beautiful.

While the sex was decidedly mediocre, this experience was such a sweet slice of life. Taking a newbie down the path to mutual enjoyment. Think this is the forth or fifth SA girl I've taken from shy reluctance to a satisfying conclusion. And there is something distinctly satisfying about that, but in a different way than just a fabulous bedroom experience. Here's how it went down with my latest Seeking virgin (others were three or four years ago — rare to find a stone cold newbie these days but such fun).

As usual on Seeking I started probably earlier than advisable just because I enjoy browsing. But sometimes that works out great because you hit a quality girl and things click and you can stay in touch 6-8 weeks in anticipation. Also guarantees they are a real girl not a hooker because hookers have no time for that.

So Marina and I connected about 7 weeks ago and had a lovely chat. Her English is very good so we mostly chatted in English. Her pics were solid if not exceptional and she was super sweet. We stayed in touch daily the last few days and she showed up right on time.

She is a very pretty girl, much prettier than her pictures and thic in the true sense, but not fat. She exercises and is well toned.

Dinner is a little slow and awkward to start but we both get Gin and Tonic doubles and things smooth out quickly. Her English is positively amazing and so it's quite easy. The food is absolutely awesome and 1. 5 hrs flies by.

I can sense she is really new to the game. She says she went on one seeking date before but the guy looked nothing like his picture and they parted after dinner. I feel like she likes me and is DTF but I want to be respectful because she's new. So I ask her if I should get a car and she says yes.

I can tell both walking to the car and in the car she is nervous about affection. But we walk to my room and head in no problem and sit on the bed. We are positioned about two feet apart and I touch her lightly and lean forward for a possible kiss but she doesn't really lean in and I know she is def feeling awkward.

She confesses she's never been back to the room before on a seeking date but that she really likes me so she wanted to. I tell her I don't want to do anything she doesn't want to and suggest I give her a massage. She says ok and takes off her jacket and lies on her stomach still fully clothed.

I give her a pretty great massage because I do that a lot w my girl back home. And after maybe ten minutes I decide to untie the bow on the back of her blouse. I guess the massage is working it's magic (I am lightly grinding plus I moved to massaging her ass cheeks) because she says let me roll over and finishes untying and then takes off her blouse. Super nice firm be cups and my mouth is on them in seconds.

Some tit circles and sucking and she is def worked up because when I go to kiss her it is deep and passionate and urgent. Ok it's on for sure now. She just needed to relax and lean into the situation.

Once on a roll it's quite good and passionate. I start by licking her tits down to her waistline and then pull back her waistband and go as low as I can go. She is def ready to rumble because when I get her pants off she is wet as a fountain and I dive right in with tongue and fingers.

She never has a huge shattering pussy clamping O but is def having a good time. Time to get me in the game. Here's where the curveball comes — as I take off my pants she says "I don't like to do blowjobs". Ouch.

In my head I think "well that def going to limit your options in life!" But nice guy that I am I say OK and finger her a bit more but kneeling cock out not far from her face. She has her hands over her head but I take her right hand and put it on my cock (these babes in the woods!) and she starts a fairly lame attempt at jacking me to get hard.

The kinda fun part of this is she is not playing a game. She is just a girl trying to figure it out and very inexperienced in bed. Now that we have moved from scared awkward girl to naked buddies I make it my mission to improve her sexual skills!

Her jacking isn't doing much for me so I move her hand to my balls and say to just stroke and squeeze lightly. She does this and it feels great. As part of my mission I tell her that working balls makes a guy horny and it's working for me.

At some point she says "I am ready" and she def is. Super wet. We go for the condom option tho I am 90% sure she would have gone bare if I just slipped it in. But my Sagami 02's (high recommend) are damn good and she feels great.

We fuck for a super long time because of no pre-game warmup. But she doesn't seem to mind and is def enjoying herself. Initially in mish for a long time and with passionate kissing. Then the Steve. Back to mish where she has a small orgasm tightening her limbs and pussy around me. Some doggie.

At some point I think I am never going to blow a stack like this. Got to convince her to BJ. So I pull out and flop on my back and say let's do a little BJ. You don't have to take it in your mouth or deep. Just lick my balls. And she tentatively acquiesces.

She starts soft licking and it feels nice. I tell her she can lightly suck them and it's clear this never occurred her but she does it nice and gently. This is def working and she starts to move up the shaft a little. I show her how to do harmonica and that feels great. She's getting the hang of this and maybe understanding that a BJ is not just jamming it in and out.

When she reaches the tip she takes it in her mouth and starts pumping the first third in and out at a nice slow pace. Feels nice. I can feel the build in the distance. So I put her back on balls and do a sloppy self handy while she sucks away. I fucking love that and shoot out a hot load.

We cuddle for a good half hour but then I call her an uber. A truly sweet girl. A true newbie. And honestly a lot of fun to break her in. Maybe her future boyfriends will thank me!

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2893319]
But then I realize that's not how life and humans work. It's just like Seeking. Every new girl I do repeats with (a minority) at some point become stale. And then there's that one last visit where I just feel like maybe she's phoning it in, or maybe I am, or both, and I walk away thinking well that's the last time we'll probably see each other again. It's just easier with Seeking because it's an arrangement.[/QUOTE]AP, you definitely hit on a key element of life for me: variety (amongst other things). Sometimes I wish I was satisfied with simple basic encounters with anyone. But with the fantasy factor of searching for unicorns and certain likes aesthetically (not sure the right word is "standards") makes our enjoyment of ladies with GFE / longer "dates" much more difficult to achieve sometimes. Looks is one thing, but conversation, sex skill, "chemistry" and a genuine wanting to explore each other more. All it takes is some weird response or look and your "stale" or turnoff sets in.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2893160]he wanted a simpler life or didn't have the ambition... but I suspect she realizes she's made some personal decisions that have affected her overall happiness. Almost too old to have a kid now and I know she wanted one. No one to vacation with and come home [/QUOTE]I have many thoughts on this one, but agreed. For happiness, sometimes it's better not to say things or actually enjoy what you have (earlier rather than later), as opposed to wasting years / decades and then having nothing and no happiness (but w / surface level success). I think if your partner / spouse is happy / treats you well, etc, shouldn't project things (ambition is a weird moving target that ebbs and flows) onto them. I realized that early on and tried to avoid most of those particular pitfalls. Most single ladies & gents I know in their 30/40/50+ are all pretty lonely. But can most see those flaws / mistakes? Sadly for most, no.

F.

If you don't work for what you have, you don't appreciate it it half as much as if you laid it down yourself. Sounds like both kids never knew want and neither set of parents actually did their job (parenting).

I didn't come from much but my parents were able to pay for my education and I've never asked for or expected a thing from the day I graduated, in fact I was mostly footing the bill the last couple years from a part time job. I've been more than happy to pay them back with trips, gadgets, and things they'd never get or do for themselves. I'm willing to bet the two in your situation never had to compromise their entire lives and went back to daddy to fund the attorneys, separate living arrangements, and whatever spoiled rich kids are used to when they didn'tget their way more than a few times. I'd never NOT want to know want. It makes everything I have so much better including professional and personal self esteem AND banging girls half my age that I would never have been able to bang when I was their age (free or not).

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2893319]Interesting. I live in a part of LA with a sometimes shocking amount of money. One girl I know came from a rich family and married a guy from a richer family. When they got married the dads got together and bought them a beautiful house, paid off, in a tony part of an already nice area. I remember thinking these people must be so happy not having the stresses that mere mortals have, paying off mortgages and student loans and saving for retirement.

They divorced 3 years and 1 baby later. I was shocked. What problems could they possibly have had? I mean they liked each other enough to get married didn't they? Can't they just live nice lives basking in their privilege and comfort?

But then I realize that's not how life and humans work. It's just like Seeking. Every new girl I do repeats with (a minority) at some point become stale. And then there's that one last visit where I just feel like maybe she's phoning it in, or maybe I am, or both, and I walk away thinking well that's the last time we'll probably see each other again. It's just easier with Seeking because it's an arrangement.[/QUOTE]

Is it weird to say I got a hard-on reading this? I'm still so shocked at the fact I'm in a bed with a twenty year old, I have zero chance of remembering a quarter amount of Steve's detail. You'll never get a report like this out of me.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2893366]While the sex was decidedly mediocre, this experience was such a sweet slice of life. Taking a newbie down the path to mutual enjoyment. Think this is the forth or fifth SA girl I've taken from shy reluctance to a satisfying conclusion. And there is something distinctly satisfying about that, but in a different way than just a fabulous bedroom experience. Here's how it went down with my latest Seeking virgin (others were three or four years ago rare to find a stone cold newbie these days but such fun).

As usual on Seeking I started probably earlier than advisable just because I enjoy browsing. But sometimes that works out great because you hit a quality girl and things click and you can stay in touch 6-8 weeks in anticipation. Also guarantees they are a real girl not a hooker because hookers have no time for that.

So Marina and I connected about 7 weeks ago and had a lovely chat. Her English is very good so we mostly chatted in English. Her pics were solid if not exceptional and she was super sweet. We stayed in touch daily the last few days and she showed up right on time.

She is a very pretty girl, much prettier than her pictures and thic in the true sense, but not fat. She exercises and is well toned.

Dinner is a little slow and awkward to start but we both get Gin and Tonic doubles and things smooth out quickly. Her English is positively amazing and so it's quite easy. The food is absolutely awesome and 1. 5 hrs flies by.

I can sense she is really new to the game. She says she went on one seeking date before but the guy looked nothing like his picture and they parted after dinner. I feel like she likes me and is DTF but I want to be respectful because she's new. So I ask her if I should get a car and she says yes.

I can tell both walking to the car and in the car she is nervous about affection. But we walk to my room and head in no problem and sit on the bed. We are positioned about two feet apart and I touch her lightly and lean forward for a possible kiss but she doesn't really lean in and I know she is def feeling awkward.

She confesses she's never been back to the room before on a seeking date but that she really likes me so she wanted to. I tell her I don't want to do anything she doesn't want to and suggest I give her a massage. She says ok and takes off her jacket and lies on her stomach still fully clothed.

I give her a pretty great massage because I do that a lot w my girl back home. And after maybe ten minutes I decide to untie the bow on the back of her blouse. I guess the massage is working it's magic (I am lightly grinding plus I moved to massaging her ass cheeks) because she says let me roll over and finishes untying and then takes off her blouse. Super nice firm be cups and my mouth is on them in seconds.

Some tit circles and sucking and she is def worked up because when I go to kiss her it is deep and passionate and urgent. Ok it's on for sure now. She just needed to relax and lean into the situation.

Once on a roll it's quite good and passionate. I start by licking her tits down to her waistline and then pull back her waistband and go as low as I can go. She is def ready to rumble because when I get her pants off she is wet as a fountain and I dive right in with tongue and fingers.

She never has a huge shattering pussy clamping O but is def having a good time. Time to get me in the game. Here's where the curveball comes as I take off my pants she says "I don't like to do blowjobs". Ouch.

In my head I think "well that def going to limit your options in life!" But nice guy that I am I say OK and finger her a bit more but kneeling cock out not far from her face. She has her hands over her head but I take her right hand and put it on my cock (these babes in the woods!) and she starts a fairly lame attempt at jacking me to get hard.

The kinda fun part of this is she is not playing a game. She is just a girl trying to figure it out and very inexperienced in bed. Now that we have moved from scared awkward girl to naked buddies I make it my mission to improve her sexual skills!

Her jacking isn't doing much for me so I move her hand to my balls and say to just stroke and squeeze lightly. She does this and it feels great. As part of my mission I tell her that working balls makes a guy horny and it's working for me.

At some point she says "I am ready" and she def is. Super wet. We go for the condom option tho I am 90% sure she would have gone bare if I just slipped it in. But my Sagami 02's (high recommend) are damn good and she feels great.

We fuck for a super long time because of no pre-game warmup. But she doesn't seem to mind and is def enjoying herself. Initially in mish for a long time and with passionate kissing. Then the Steve. Back to mish where she has a small orgasm tightening her limbs and pussy around me. Some doggie.

At some point I think I am never going to blow a stack like this. Got to convince her to BJ. So I pull out and flop on my back and say let's do a little BJ. You don't have to take it in your mouth or deep. Just lick my balls. And she tentatively acquiesces.

She starts soft licking and it feels nice. I tell her she can lightly suck them and it's clear this never occurred her but she does it nice and gently. This is def working and she starts to move up the shaft a little. I show her how to do harmonica and that feels great. She's getting the hang of this and maybe understanding that a BJ is not just jamming it in and out.

When she reaches the tip she takes it in her mouth and starts pumping the first third in and out at a nice slow pace. Feels nice. I can feel the build in the distance. So I put her back on balls and do a sloppy self handy while she sucks away. I fucking love that and shoot out a hot load.

We cuddle for a good half hour but then I call her an uber. A truly sweet girl. A true newbie. And honestly a lot of fun to break her in. Maybe her future boyfriends will thank me![/QUOTE]

Ok last night was fun and entertaining. But tonight's stunning 21 yo 5 ft nuthin spinner rocked my world. Omfg. I am smitten. Details to follow.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2893466]Is it weird to say I got a hard-on reading this? I'm still so shocked at the fact I'm in a bed with a twenty year old, I have zero chance of remembering a quarter amount of Steve's detail. You'll never get a report like this out of me.[/QUOTE]Hahahahaha, I concur, I also am lying in bed with my own 20 yr old hottie GF, and also enjoy Steve's writeups of his encounters all over the world. I personally got to witness some of his pulls when he visited here in Medellin and we went out in search of talent. Can't wait for the coming report on the one that rocked his world last night.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2893213]don't have social media so I post nothing and I'd politely ask that they not post pics of me on their sm. Not because I'm embarrassed, rather because as I as small an online presence as possible including pics of any kind of me.[/QUOTE]I gave up social media years ago. A number of reasons but a primary driver for me was that I Seek all over the world and I didn't want it to come back home with me.

My biggest threat is that I have a slightly public profile and whenever I test a photo in pimeyes somehow it matches me. I only use the ones online (eg chats with girls) that don't identify me. I need to find a way to alter photos so that pineyes and the like don't identify me.

Thanks guys for the kind words. I love to write these up so I can relive them. And last night was one for the books. Totally smitten. Repeating tonight. And may try to fly her in the future. Just an amazing girl. Thank you Seeking!

Met Maru on Seeking about 8 weeks ago. I was very struck by her pics and we had a bit of a slow start chatting but kept up some moderate contact. A couple weeks back we set the deal and the date.

As is my modus operandi when in a city a few days, I put my number one pick on day one, second girl on day 2, and repeat with favorite on day three. Marina was my fave due to her girlfriendy attitude and Maru got day two despite better optics. No regrets really but Maru is a stone cold hottie and sweet girl and a sex demon. So no contest for day three. Here's how our date went down.

We met up at a rooftop bar with an amazing view of the city. We had to meetup late because she had class. She's a junior psychology major. She showed up maybe ten minutes late and I got a start on a large gin and tonic.

She texts me when she arrives and I hop down the four flights to meet her. Wow. She a petite hottie in her tight bell bottoms and platform Chuck Taylors. Soooo cute. As you can imagine my imagination goes wild following her tight bootie up the stairs. Hoping for an epic night.

We settle back in at our table and she seems super stoked. All bubbly smiles. We had chatted earlier that she's never drank much and wants to be introduced. So when she sits down she asks what I am drinking and she takes a sip of my G&T. She rather likes it and we quickly have one ordered for her.

The chemistry is awesome from moment one. Her English is really good and we chat about a variety of topics. The food is great. The view is great. And the chemistry is great. A date trifecta!

After a lovely dinner and draining our gin and tonics we start the walk to my hotel 5-10 minutes away. There is never really any question if we were going to the hotel together. It's clear we are going to have a great time the chemistry is just soooo much easier than say last night for example. It just flows and flows.

Back in the room it's a completely different experience from the night before. Part of this is that she's more comfortable. And part is that I am so smittten I am just drawn to getting intimate with her ASAP.

I decide we should put on some music and as I do with most girls I say let's do your music. As she is standing and browsing for music, I sit on the bed and put my hands on her waist and pull her close. I am in flow state at this point and my hands are roaming around her waist and butt and tits and I am getting hard for sure.

Once she's got the music on, we start kissing and it's lovely and deep and passionate. This girl is a firecracker. I pull her on top of me and she laughs I think she is prob used to Latin guys dominating her but I love a girl on top kissing me like she wants me inside her. And she gets right back to business tongue fucking each other.

At some point she comes up for air and gets her top off. Perfect firm handful be cup tits. Absolutely perfect. And I get hands on for a bit before rolling her on her back and going to town with a full scale assault.

I luv me a set of C or D cups from time to time but I love that girls with smaller tits are so much more sensitive. As I suck them deeply and work circles, she will inhale and throw her head back and close her eyes. You can tell she is getting super worked up and ready for me downstairs.

After really spending some time here I get up to get my pants off. I kinda like a slow build of passion so I leave my undies on and she strips to her panties. We grind my hard cock against her pussy and make out like teenagers.

Soon it's time to rock her world so I work my way down and take off her panties. Such a beautiful petite pussy to match her petite frame. I lick quite a bit above and around it to get her worked up but eventually dive in. She is super tight, so only one finger inside to work her Gspot while I slather the fuck out of her clit with my tongue and lips.

She is moaning appreciatively and wet as fuck, throwing her head back from time to time when I build her really good. I must be down there a good 15+ minutes because I'm getting tired. There is never a clear earth shattering ending but she twice arches her back in a spasm where I can't even reach her clit for a bit and she is having a climax of some sort.

Eventually I tire and think let's get some dick in this game. So I move up near her face and take off my undies. She gladly takes me in her mouth in the Steve2 position with me fingering her clit. From time to time I slip a finger inside and she lets out a gasp and moan and has to take me out of her mouth. Love that I can make her lose control like that! And the BJ is heavenly. I have her alternate sucking shaft and balls. Nothing like getting a BJ while fingering. Steve2 baby!

After a really long time doing this because damn it's good we head for some fucking. She chooses the condom option and I oblige. She's def tight getting me inside, but once I ease in it's slippery slide time and we start some nice slow mish while kissing.

We fuck a good long time this way but eventually switch to the Steve which she likes. And then I get her on top in cowgirl. TBH she's a grinder which doesn't do much for me but she is having a whale of a time and I must let her grind for ten minutes or more. I am very impressed by her stamina!

Eventually she does tire and flop down beside me. She's staring at me with her amazing eyes there is just that connection feeling you rarely get.

I let her rest a few beats but then ask her to BJ to finish. She cheerfully complies and gives an amazing BJ for a very long time. I am feeling bad because I can't cum but I am near the edge for forever so it feels great. Even after laboring for a very long time I can't finish and she finally packs it in, flopping down again.

I am very grateful she worked so hard but I want to cum. So I ask her to get on balls and me on hand job. She again smiles and gets right on it. I love a good ball suck handjob combo and stroke for a bit before shooting s nice load. Ah. Finally.

Some kiss and cuddle and we agree to meet tonight. (I'the decided 10 minutes into the bedroom that she's the repeat.) Call her an uber and slept the sleep of the dead. What a girl!

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2893568]I need to find a way to alter photos so that pineyes and the like don't identify me.[/QUOTE]Not exactly what you're looking for, but on the apps, I usually Google Image Search photos that look "too good to be true". I noticed if the cropping / selection isn't the same, sometimes the photo doesn't come up as a match. If anything, try cropping the photo differently to see if it decreases the match rate. Not sure if the engines use the same algo.

Steve, yes, keep posting details!

F.

[QUOTE=Foolish;2893810]Not exactly what you're looking for, but on the apps, I usually Google Image Search photos that look "too good to be true". I noticed if the cropping / selection isn't the same, sometimes the photo doesn't come up as a match. If anything, try cropping the photo differently to see if it decreases the match rate. Not sure if the engines use the same algo..[/QUOTE]Whenever I google image search a girl, the results are always matches for the clothes she's wearing. Never the face. I feel like I'm probably doing it wrong.

These are Steve epic writeups.

I'm never going to be able to do these. Hats off!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2893631]Thanks guys for the kind words. I love to write these up so I can relive them. And last night was one for the books. Totally smitten. Repeating tonight. And may try to fly her in the future. Just an amazing girl. Thank you Seeking!

Met Maru on Seeking about 8 weeks ago. I was very struck by her pics and we had a bit of a slow start chatting but kept up some moderate contact. A couple weeks back we set the deal and the date.

As is my modus operandi when in a city a few days, I put my number one pick on day one, second girl on day 2, and repeat with favorite on day three. Marina was my fave due to her girlfriendy attitude and Maru got day two despite better optics. No regrets really but Maru is a stone cold hottie and sweet girl and a sex demon. So no contest for day three. Here's how our date went down.

We met up at a rooftop bar with an amazing view of the city. We had to meetup late because she had class. She's a junior psychology major. She showed up maybe ten minutes late and I got a start on a large gin and tonic.

She texts me when she arrives and I hop down the four flights to meet her. Wow. She a petite hottie in her tight bell bottoms and platform Chuck Taylors. Soooo cute. As you can imagine my imagination goes wild following her tight bootie up the stairs. Hoping for an epic night.

We settle back in at our table and she seems super stoked. All bubbly smiles. We had chatted earlier that she's never drank much and wants to be introduced. So when she sits down she asks what I am drinking and she takes a sip of my G&T. She rather likes it and we quickly have one ordered for her.

The chemistry is awesome from moment one. Her English is really good and we chat about a variety of topics. The food is great. The view is great. And the chemistry is great. A date trifecta!

After a lovely dinner and draining our gin and tonics we start the walk to my hotel 5-10 minutes away. There is never really any question if we were going to the hotel together. It's clear we are going to have a great time the chemistry is just soooo much easier than say last night for example. It just flows and flows.

Back in the room it's a completely different experience from the night before. Part of this is that she's more comfortable. And part is that I am so smittten I am just drawn to getting intimate with her ASAP.

I decide we should put on some music and as I do with most girls I say let's do your music. As she is standing and browsing for music, I sit on the bed and put my hands on her waist and pull her close. I am in flow state at this point and my hands are roaming around her waist and butt and tits and I am getting hard for sure.

Once she's got the music on, we start kissing and it's lovely and deep and passionate. This girl is a firecracker. I pull her on top of me and she laughs I think she is prob used to Latin guys dominating her but I love a girl on top kissing me like she wants me inside her. And she gets right back to business tongue fucking each other.

At some point she comes up for air and gets her top off. Perfect firm handful be cup tits. Absolutely perfect. And I get hands on for a bit before rolling her on her back and going to town with a full scale assault.

I luv me a set of C or D cups from time to time but I love that girls with smaller tits are so much more sensitive. As I suck them deeply and work circles, she will inhale and throw her head back and close her eyes. You can tell she is getting super worked up and ready for me downstairs.

After really spending some time here I get up to get my pants off. I kinda like a slow build of passion so I leave my undies on and she strips to her panties. We grind my hard cock against her pussy and make out like teenagers.

Soon it's time to rock her world so I work my way down and take off her panties. Such a beautiful petite pussy to match her petite frame. I lick quite a bit above and around it to get her worked up but eventually dive in. She is super tight, so only one finger inside to work her Gspot while I slather the fuck out of her clit with my tongue and lips.

She is moaning appreciatively and wet as fuck, throwing her head back from time to time when I build her really good. I must be down there a good 15+ minutes because I'm getting tired. There is never a clear earth shattering ending but she twice arches her back in a spasm where I can't even reach her clit for a bit and she is having a climax of some sort.

Eventually I tire and think let's get some dick in this game. So I move up near her face and take off my undies. She gladly takes me in her mouth in the Steve2 position with me fingering her clit. From time to time I slip a finger inside and she lets out a gasp and moan and has to take me out of her mouth. Love that I can make her lose control like that! And the BJ is heavenly. I have her alternate sucking shaft and balls. Nothing like getting a BJ while fingering. Steve2 baby!

After a really long time doing this because damn it's good we head for some fucking. She chooses the condom option and I oblige. She's def tight getting me inside, but once I ease in it's slippery slide time and we start some nice slow mish while kissing.

We fuck a good long time this way but eventually switch to the Steve which she likes. And then I get her on top in cowgirl. TBH she's a grinder which doesn't do much for me but she is having a whale of a time and I must let her grind for ten minutes or more. I am very impressed by her stamina!

Eventually she does tire and flop down beside me. She's staring at me with her amazing eyes there is just that connection feeling you rarely get.

I let her rest a few beats but then ask her to BJ to finish. She cheerfully complies and gives an amazing BJ for a very long time. I am feeling bad because I can't cum but I am near the edge for forever so it feels great. Even after laboring for a very long time I can't finish and she finally packs it in, flopping down again.

I am very grateful she worked so hard but I want to cum. So I ask her to get on balls and me on hand job. She again smiles and gets right on it. I love a good ball suck handjob combo and stroke for a bit before shooting s nice load. Ah. Finally.

Some kiss and cuddle and we agree to meet tonight. (I'the decided 10 minutes into the bedroom that she's the repeat.) Call her an uber and slept the sleep of the dead. What a girl![/QUOTE]

Anyone has experience in Boston?

City of universities. I am expecting a good collection there but any ground intel will be helpful.

It seems, in london, its almost given that ppm means a platonic dinner date just for the pleasure of their company or "getting to feel comfortable" one step away from online. Ranges from 250 pounds to one girl wanted 700 for a coffee!! I think Charlie Sheen will be hapky with that compensation for an hour of his time and 18 espressos.

3 years back 300 was a straight ppm. I'm not sure who would do this, pay someone to buy them dinner. The ladies seem to be upping the stakes. Maybe some men are enabling such behaviours. Maybe some have the money, and just LT need someone to talk to. I wonder if this is confined to London where their is a plethora of traffic and hard to even get a response, or something people have experienced globally?

Even the less appealing girls are demanding rather high monthly allowances.

I had a stint in Barcelona 17 months ago that was for more straight forward.

[QUOTE=Lusine99;2894124]It seems, in london, its almost given that ppm means a platonic dinner date just for the pleasure of their company or "getting to feel comfortable" one step away from online. Ranges from 250 pounds to one girl wanted 700 for a coffee!! I think Charlie Sheen will be hapky with that compensation for an hour of his time and 18 espressos.

3 years back 300 was a straight ppm. I'm not sure who would do this, pay someone to buy them dinner. The ladies seem to be upping the stakes. Maybe some men are enabling such behaviours. Maybe some have the money, and just LT need someone to talk to. I wonder if this is confined to London where their is a plethora of traffic and hard to even get a response, or something people have experienced globally?

Even the less appealing girls are demanding rather high monthly allowances.

I had a stint in Barcelona 17 months ago that was for more straight forward.[/QUOTE]These girls are dreaming. I am sorry, I just do not believe it. I also hear these stories, but I politely laugh and move on.

[QUOTE=Lusine99;2894124]It seems, in london, its almost given that ppm means a platonic dinner date just for the pleasure of their company or "getting to feel comfortable" one step away from online. Ranges from 250 pounds to one girl wanted 700 for a coffee!! I think Charlie Sheen will be hapky with that compensation for an hour of his time and 18 espressos.

3 years back 300 was a straight ppm. I'm not sure who would do this, pay someone to buy them dinner. The ladies seem to be upping the stakes. Maybe some men are enabling such behaviours. Maybe some have the money, and just LT need someone to talk to. I wonder if this is confined to London where their is a plethora of traffic and hard to even get a response, or something people have experienced globally?

Even the less appealing girls are demanding rather high monthly allowances.

I had a stint in Barcelona 17 months ago that was for more straight forward.[/QUOTE]My time is worth much more than theirs I tell them, so I tell them we can meet and if we feel good about each other we can talk about starting an arrangement immediately, but no guarantees except I will pay for the meal. Otherwise they order crab, expensive seafood and walk away expecting to be paid also and you are a chump.

So after disappearing for about 14 months, I get a text message from my one and only sugar baby, and it's kind of like a "what's up"? I respond by sending her a picture of her at her wedding and ask, "So how's the married life"? LOLOLOL LMAO! That's all I said. It takes her about 2 hours to respond, probably trying to figure out what she should say. She finally says she was just checking in. I did not respond any further, and have no plans to. But I took great satisfaction out of letting her know that I know. And I know about a lot more than that too, but I kept that all to myself. What was that American Pi said? The duplicitous nature of people!

I have used SA primarily across the US and Europe. The PPM and SB expectations vary from culture to culture and city to city. Some cities have a higher percentage of working girls posing as SBs, some have SBs that are more strict about the requirements, some girls want $500 ppm even though their looks, age and location don't warrant it (they make it seem like we are desperate. LOL. We are the ones with all the choices. We set the price. Just saying) and some cities have better quality across the board.

What are your top two places to use SA. Just from an SB perspective, not the city's amenities?

I've been vocal about my opinions regarding US SBs, so no US city was in consideration for even the top 10 spots. It's so bad that I even avoid / disregard American girls when I come across them when abroad. NO GO for me.

Back to topic. I have 4 top cities that come to mind, but I'll stick to two, which is a bit difficult to narrow down. For me, it would be Madrid and London, with Lisbon and Prague as a close 3rd /4th. In my experience, my SB experiences have been with cool, down to earth girls, that never watched the clock (and didn't mention this $$ for a few hours crap), and more than likely stayed the night. They were able to get in the GF mode and really made the night (s) awesome, usually on more than one occasion and at times refused cash.

What say you?

02.

[QUOTE=Lusine99;2894124]It seems, in london, its almost given that ppm means a platonic dinner date just for the pleasure of their company or "getting to feel comfortable" one step away from online. Ranges from 250 pounds to one girl wanted 700 for a coffee!! I think Charlie Sheen will be hapky with that compensation for an hour of his time and 18 espressos.

3 years back 300 was a straight ppm. I'm not sure who would do this, pay someone to buy them dinner. The ladies seem to be upping the stakes. Maybe some men are enabling such behaviours. Maybe some have the money, and just LT need someone to talk to. I wonder if this is confined to London where their is a plethora of traffic and hard to even get a response, or something people have experienced globally?

Even the less appealing girls are demanding rather high monthly allowances.

I had a stint in Barcelona 17 months ago that was for more straight forward.[/QUOTE]Dudes that are doing this. Just stop. If you are feel bad, don't. And definitely don't let some young girl in her confidence or sob story manipulate you into paying her for her company. This is absurd.

On a larger scale over time, our (SDs) behaviors all affect each other. We bang the same girls, and exchange cash and outings, etc. Hell, we have probably seen each other at the same steakhouses with our SBs without knowing hahahaha. I assume the majority of us are against a 300 pound / euro / dollar PPM for a f*#ki#g coffee or a croissant and the immense pleasure of their company. I come back to reality with the fact that most of us are professionals and probably can be considered high earners. Essentially, our time is worth more than theirs, so whenever I hear an SB say that she needs to be compensated for her time, I remind her that she is the one who is benefiting; she is the one looking for someone to raise her level or help her. When she puts her vag on the same level with the jewels of our experience, practice, financial ability and knowledge, she errs in her narcissism. Platonic dates can be fun, BUT it must be made clear that no cash jumps into your pocket until a deed has been done. Thems the rules. Haha.

02.

We've all had these requests for time compensation. These are either pros or very inexperienced noobs. I blow these girls off as soon as I figure that out. If I establish a back and forth connection to the point I really want to meet this girl and I'm reasonably sure she's interested in more than just meeting a nice guy; either I'll ask what she wants or she'll ask for a number outright or ask me to propose something. Every time, I say something like x after dinner plus why if we go back to my place where both numbers usually add up to what I give my regular. There are no surprises when it's set up like this. The reason I even offer something just for dinner is to give MYSELF an out. If we have zero chemistry or just a shitty time or I'm not feeling it, that's not necessarily her fault and I'm happy going separate ways with a clean conscience. I need to stress that my decision to meet someone is never based on a 5 min text conversation. I generally don't meet them until I've built some kind of basic interest outside of their looks and that can take days and lead to expectations on my part that don't pan out, again, not her fault.

If you're worried about the price of the meal, meet them at Starbucks. The serious ones want to get the arrangement out of the way quickly. You can bring them to an expensive place on the second date.

[QUOTE=HumbleHal;2894188]My time is worth much more than theirs I tell them, so I tell them we can meet and if we feel good about each other we can talk about starting an arrangement immediately, but no guarantees except I will pay for the meal. Otherwise they order crab, expensive seafood and walk away expecting to be paid also and you are a chump.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Lusine99;2894124]It seems, in london, its almost given that ppm means a platonic dinner date just for the pleasure of their company or "getting to feel comfortable" one step away from online. Ranges from 250 pounds to one girl wanted 700 for a coffee!! I think Charlie Sheen will be hapky with that compensation for an hour of his time and 18 espressos.

3 years back 300 was a straight ppm. I'm not sure who would do this, pay someone to buy them dinner. The ladies seem to be upping the stakes. Maybe some men are enabling such behaviours. Maybe some have the money, and just LT need someone to talk to. I wonder if this is confined to London where their is a plethora of traffic and hard to even get a response, or something people have experienced globally?

Even the less appealing girls are demanding rather high monthly allowances.

I had a stint in Barcelona 17 months ago that was for more straight forward.[/QUOTE]London is trash. Take the train / bus to North UK. Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, York, Newcastle. The area is still abundant with all type of girls ready and willing to ride your chorizo for 150 GBP + dinner. Don't waste your time in London.

Not Seeking stuff so not posting here. But São Paulo club scene is best girls worldwide imo. I've dropped three mega reports with more to come. If you have an interest head on over to the São Paulo thread. Going to drop another report on the second date with Mia, the 10 unicorn I found, in the next day or two.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2894103]Anyone has experience in Boston?

City of universities. I am expecting a good collection there but any ground intel will be helpful.[/QUOTE]Friend is there. He is having great time. Young college students 18 to 24 years. 500 to max 700 usd they are happy to stay overnight and full one GFE experience and also lot of different races to choose from. Repeat cost is less with 30 to 50 percent discount. They just need nice restaurant dinner, drinks and nice hotels not the motel types.

This is not strictly Seeking but very Seeking-like so I thought you might enjoy it. If U want the background on finding a true TEN, that's over in the Sao Paulo thread posted as a Casarao experience.

Before diving in, just want to say if u are serious about best girl experience in the world you simply must get to Sao Paulo. Just nothing else compares. Enjoy!

P.S. Flying in a fave from Rio tomorrow and almost disappointed I did that! That's how good it is. LOL.

Recall that Mia, the unicorn 10, and I had put off our Sat date till Sunday when it is slow. We WhatsApp and set a time and are planning on Japanese. I think I will take a little nap around 3:30 but as I settle in I see her text "I'm sorry but I don't think we can go tonight". Dagger thru my fucking heart. And Mark is super bummed because he was really looking forward to her friend Manu, having gotten previously cock blocked by his Fatal Attraction girl at Casarao.

I'm not quite ready to punt so I tell Mia I am very sad and maybe we could just not go all night. Or go earlier or later. Just groping at straws here when she says OK as long as we are done before 8:30 she can come on over!

I think "woohoo" but feel a bit sorry for Mark as Mia says Manu cannot come. But shortly she texts and asks do I want her to bring another friend for Mark. I doubt this will work out as Mark has narrow taste but when she texts a pic that could pass for her sister it's on! (an 8. 5 to Mia's 10).

They are just going to come to the hotel and come to our rooms. But in a flash of brilliance I say let's have a fiesta in my room so Mark and his girl can get comfortable. So I order a bottle of champagne to be sent up.

The girls arrive about 1/2 hour later looking lovely. Mia has worn a conservative sun dress but she still looks awesome. Fernanda is wearing a tight two piece like you might see in the club and Mark is slain. Even better than her pics.

No issues from the front desk at the hotel, we just meet our girls and head up to my room. It has a little seating area with a couch so we order some finger foods and pair it with the champagne. It's quite a fun little party and very comfortable so we order another bottle (a very reasonable 90 R) and continue chatting and listening to music. What a great idea the party was. We end up spending 1. 5 hours before departing to our private fuck fests.

Mia and I are so much more comfortable night two. Don't get me wrong; night one was amazing but this far exceeded that. And I can partially thank Mark for that because he is the DATY master and had coached me up a bit.

You see, on night one during the debrief he had told me about the DATY challenge he undertook with Gabi. She had said she never cums from DATY and he said "challenge accepted!" he worked her for a full half hour and she had a crashing O and that gratefulness that comes with it. Patient man that he is, he won the challenge and was amply rewarded. Kudos!

So over picanha the night after Gabi, I had asked him his three best DATY tips and those came in handy with Mia. I class myself as pretty good at it, but adding in one trick and a lot of patience I took Mia to that crashing O and it was legendary. She too seemed surprised and amazed and that look afterwards is priceless. I've only seen it before twice with other girls. When you give them the O they didn't think they could get without a vibrator, the look they give you (Something between serenity, bliss, and gratefulness.) is absolutely priceless. And so is the next hour that follows!

As Mia positions to give me the reward BJ I continue to be struck by her amazing body. You know how pretty much every girl has a little stomach pooch when sitting down. Even the pretty slim ones. She has ZERO stomach pooch and gorgeous high Cee cup tits and I just marvel. It doesn't seem possible. Yet here she is in my bed. With my dick in her mouth. WTF?

For the BJ I am much more comfortable giving her direction, as she is not a pro in this department, despite or maybe because of her beauty. So as she licks balls I show her how to use the flat of her tongue not the tip. And how to suck them. She is careful not too suck too hard and looks to me with her doe eyes for approval, which I graciously give. Sim! Gostoso!

I also show her how to harmonica and that is fucking amazing. She has thick beautiful lips and the feeling is electric. The visuals of her sucking my dick as absolutely legendary.

We have some rather amazing sex in all the positions and the mirror on the closet provides some great visuals. She loves to look at herself being fucked in doggie and just seeing that alone is completely arousing. Plus her perfect butt in doggie is to die for. I grab that Brasileira bunda and fuck like my life depends on it!

As my ninth fuck of the week (7 girls) I am a tough finish. We try tittie fucking with lube which clearly she hasn't done before but she catches on quickly and pushes her tits together. It feels amazing skin to skin and I build some.

For the final finish we go to her sucking balls and me jacking. And that feels great and goes on forever. She's taking a little break from sucking and is just slip sliding my highly sloppy balls with her hand, amazing face nearby, giving me the bedroom eyes.

She's actually enjoying watching my dick get harder and harder; and when I shoot out a nice load, she laughs and smiles and enjoys watching me shoot. Ah what a girl! Minha namorada (until Manuella arrives from Rio on Wednesday. Kkkkkk).

Mark and his hottie return, nice time had by all and we kiss them goodbye at their Uber. SP totally rules. Best girls worldwide by a mile!

Been trying to get myself excited about anywhere in SA but just can't do it. Somewhere in the back of my mind I've convinced myself that SA is just Mexico, but further. I'm smart enough to know that's not true but dumb enough to ignore that fact. I've browsed SA profiles in BA or SP and see a fair number of Caucasian looking girls but still more Hispanics than I'm interested in (which will result in less a smaller chance of getting what I want). A lifetime and maybe a socio-economic tier ago I got my fill of Hispanics; that is an itch that never needs to be scratched again. Your stories are epic and results are undeniable but I just can't get reved up. Maybe this is the closed minded, insensitive global citizen, American in me. Or maybe I'm just a bigot. I can't get excited about heading south for some tail.

When I was a youngster right out of college all the "old" guys were talking about how awesome Costa Rica was as a mongering destination. Never made it there when I was young but I've always had it on the radar from those accounts and I've yet to read anything in the last several years that would encourage me to take a trip there (including being very good friends with a CR native who can give me all the dirt I want).

For the time being my crazy / bitchy (sometimes) and sweet / innocent (sometimes) slavs are getting most of my business. Though I am thinking seriously about some college towns in the north of England.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2895174]Not Seeking stuff so not posting here. But So Paulo club scene is best girls worldwide imo. I've dropped three mega reports with more to come. If you have an interest head on over to the So Paulo thread. Going to drop another report on the second date with Mia, the 10 unicorn I found, in the next day or two.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2895560]Been trying to get myself excited about anywhere in SA but just can't do it. Somewhere in the back of my mind I've convinced myself that SA is just Mexico, but further. I'm smart enough to know that's not true but dumb enough to ignore that fact. I've browsed SA profiles in BA or SP and see a fair number of Caucasian looking girls but still more Hispanics than I'm interested in (which will result in less a smaller chance of getting what I want). A lifetime and maybe a socio-economic tier ago I got my fill of Hispanics; that is an itch that never needs to be scratched again. Your stories are epic and results are undeniable but I just can't get reved up. Maybe this is the closed minded, insensitive global citizen, American in me. Or maybe I'm just a bigot. I can't get excited about heading south for some tail.

When I was a youngster right out of college all the "old" guys were talking about how awesome Costa Rica was as a mongering destination. Never made it there when I was young but I've always had it on the radar from those accounts and I've yet to read anything in the last several years that would encourage me to take a trip there (including being very good friends with a CR native who can give me all the dirt I want).

For the time being my crazy / bitchy (sometimes) and sweet / innocent (sometimes) slavs are getting most of my business. Though I am thinking seriously about some college towns in the north of England.[/QUOTE]So where do you go then? What are your spots?

Interesting story. I went to London years ago because wanted to bag some babies with British accents. Set up dates with 3 girls. Turns out when I met them they were a Russian, a Moldovan, and a Canadian. Go figure.

Eastern Europe (including Germany not to be semantic), Thailand, here at home.

Depending on country, I'll either bag a stripper or use Seeking which works with about the same success as it does at home (I'm guessing because I'm so picky not because there are a lack of accounts). Met a stripper who came back to my room after her shift was up, I paid to get her out of the club "all night" which was 7 or 8 hours. She told me she'd get in trouble but she came back around 7 am anyway. Ended up banging all day until she had a nail appointment that evening. Went to see her two more times over the course of 10 months and we chatted daily via viber (she also spoke almost no english so there was definitely some kind of chemistry there to chat through a translator for so long).

Been to London a few times but never mongered always wanted to do other stuff as it's one of the most exciting cities in the world IMHO. I'm not a fan of escorts so I never bothered trying Diva or some of the other reputable sites you can find well documented on the London thread. Told myself I'd try a walk-up at some point but haven't gotten around to it and don't have very high expectations when I do. Probably find the same eastern Europeans you did with little to no choices.

I've got a long history with Thailand that I won't get into but I like soapies which is probably the most expensive way to get laid there. I tried fiwfans on my last trip as I have convinced myself that the soapy business model is unsustainable in a quickly modernizing Bangkok. It was basically what I expected, (bait & switch scam, girls look nothing like the pictures) but I will say it was the cheapest I ever paid to get laid there.

I live in an expensive coastal city and there is no shortage of hotties. The problem is getting their attention and vibing with them. I've been seeing my current for about 8 months now and I'm really happy with her. Tall, slim, loooong waisted supermodel type body. Really attractive girl next door face. I find that when I have a regular I dial back the mongering a bit so if I take a two week trip I'll probably only pfp 3 or 4 times but if I haven't been getting it regularly I might hunt daily but my standards won't change so I still won't get laid everyday no matter how hard I try.

That's my MO never been to SA, Africa or S / see Asia and never intend to. Would like to try Japan or Korea someday that nut is hard to crack and the only persons I know who speaks either language are female which probably won't go over very well. I'm always looking for a connection rather than a quick bang and I seem to have a minor knack for connecting with girls that don't speak much English. I once had a soapy girl who spoke no English stay with me for a week in my hotel while I was out banging other girls in soapies then coming back later in the evening to bang her. Enjoy your youth gentlemen I couldn't dream of doing that today.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2895698]So where do you go then? What are your spots?

Interesting story. I went to London years ago because wanted to bag some babies with British accents. Set up dates with 3 girls. Turns out when I met them they were a Russian, a Moldovan, and a Canadian. Go figure.[/QUOTE]

Much appreciated.

[QUOTE=FunToosh6045;2895229]Friend is there. He is having great time. Young college students 18 to 24 years. 500 to max 700 usd they are happy to stay overnight and full one GFE experience and also lot of different races to choose from. Repeat cost is less with 30 to 50 percent discount. They just need nice restaurant dinner, drinks and nice hotels not the motel types.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2895560]that is an itch that never needs to be scratched again.

how awesome Costa Rica was as a mongering destination.
[/QUOTE]Don't worry, this "pickiness" (choose your own word) is pretty normal. I used to do the FKKs and I did enjoy my Romanian girls for a while, but that was 10+ years ago, so I don't have that itch in general (and when I heard of how locally it's not a great scene, it ended that thread for me). I generally don't have a type in terms of racial background, but if you like GFE, Brazil probably has the broadest spectrum of looks diversity PLUS GFE / Illusion of Passion (or whatever you want to call it). Costa Rica, DR, Colombia, Panama. They have been run through (like many places) and pretty much ruined from visitors (Brazil has it's own changes over the years, but more isolated it seems).

Interesting on the escort part, I used to partake a lot until I started haning out with a few, off the books. Have never returned to that scene (at least locally).

Unless I've missed my guess, most of us in this thread like natural spinner / GND / model types with the least augmentation / fillers / makeup and good conversation / vibes while hanging out / travelling. But I'm sure we probably won't like the same girls. Picky? Ha. So other than enjoying Brazil, Montreal is another great place for food / drink / spinners & French Canadian uninhibited attitudes. I personally enjoy checking out different places, to "crack the code" of the local (or imported) hotties, even if I tend towards the bigger cities.

F.

Hello brothers,

From your experience can you help to have a ballpark idea of allowances PPM of girls in following places.

Vienna.

Prague.

Budapest.

Madrid.

London.

North london. Mostly university cities.

Smaller cities in south of France.

[QUOTE=Foolish;2895978]Don't worry, this "pickiness" (choose your own word) is pretty normal. I used to do the FKKs and I did enjoy my Romanian girls for a while, but that was 10+ years ago, so I don't have that itch in general (and when I heard of how locally it's not a great scene, it ended that thread for me). I generally don't have a type in terms of racial background, but if you like GFE, Brazil probably has the broadest spectrum of looks diversity PLUS GFE / Illusion of Passion (or whatever you want to call it). Costa Rica, DR, Colombia, Panama. They have been run through (like many places) and pretty much ruined from visitors (Brazil has it's own changes over the years, but more isolated it seems).

Interesting on the escort part, I used to partake a lot until I started haning out with a few, off the books. Have never returned to that scene (at least locally).

Unless I've missed my guess, most of us in this thread like natural spinner / GND / model types with the least augmentation / fillers / makeup and good conversation / vibes while hanging out / travelling. But I'm sure we probably won't like the same girls. Picky? Ha. So other than enjoying Brazil, Montreal is another great place for food / drink / spinners & French Canadian uninhibited attitudes. I personally enjoy checking out different places, to "crack the code" of the local (or imported) hotties, even if I tend towards the bigger cities.

F.[/QUOTE]I think you and I are the same person. I could've written this post almost verbatim. Everything except hanging out with escorts.

BTW, regarding FKK, I tell people it's something you have to do once in your life. And it's amazing and awe inspiring. But it's like Vegas. The first time is amazing. After that it goes downhill fast.

I love Canadians, they are so annoyingly friendly. Used to pick a city there every year with a college friend and go just to go. Without fail, every trip we took, some random girl (s) would chat us up as we were minding our own business. What planet does this happen on? I don't think either of us would consider ourselves above average in the looks department and we weren't drinking 1 k bottles of champagne but it would always shock me that we'd seem to end at least one night of the trip chatting up a friendly girl. In Montreal, had a McGill student chat us up, ended up swapping numbers and invited us to play poker with her and her her friends the next day (unfortunately our last in town so had to pass). Also in Montreal had an absolutely gorgeous college girl from BC working in a bar invite me to Calgary when she goes back to school, even told me the bar she'd be working in if I had trouble finding her. This stuff doesn't happen anywhere else that I know of. I was married at the time and trying to be good so I never took a trip to Calgary but I do regret it.

We ended up spending way too much time in strip clubs in Montreal which was a complete waste of time and money.

I've been kicking around opening a new paid account to do some shopping in Vancouver, Toronto, or Montreal for a long weekend but I'm happy enough with my current SB it's not more than a thought. I don't recall many posts about Canada on this thread. I wonder if anyone is cashing in on the great Canadian national personality.

[QUOTE=Foolish;2895978]

Unless I've missed my guess, most of us in this thread like natural spinner / GND / model types with the least augmentation / fillers / makeup and good conversation / vibes while hanging out / travelling. But I'm sure we probably won't like the same girls. Picky? Ha. So other than enjoying Brazil, Montreal is another great place for food / drink / spinners & French Canadian uninhibited attitudes. I personally enjoy checking out different places, to "crack the code" of the local (or imported) hotties, even if I tend towards the bigger cities.

F.[/QUOTE]

The first thought that came to mind when I walked into Sharks first time was Vegas. Gaudy neon, huge open space, all sizes and shapes of human being (naked or mostly naked) which, by the way, is not a positive comment. Even had a few gambling machines thrown in for good measure. Aside from the size of the buffet I could have easily convinced myself I was in a casino.

Can't beat it for convenience but the scene gets old really quick.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2896083]

BTW, regarding FKK, I tell people it's something you have to do once in your life. And it's amazing and awe inspiring. But it's like Vegas. The first time is amazing. After that it goes downhill fast.[/QUOTE]

Had some odd timing with my São Paulo visit where I was going to be here for a few days, then away for a few days, and then back again. There is this amazing girl Manuella with whom I had an awesome Seeking date in Rio. A true 9. 5 and ton of fun. So I am considering taking sand to the beach (Rio to SP) because she's been staying in touch over the last year (and saying when can we meet again.

I'm a bit torn because SP is so target rich but damn we had chemistry. I finally settle on the plan to spend the first four days in SP at the Boates (6 girls it turns out) and then fly Manu from Rio to SP for a few days when we return. I think she prob won't be down for such a short visit but she gets someone to cover her shift and we plan the trip. She had given me an amazing price for our date in Rio and same here. Let's just say I had her for 2. 5 days for the price of an hour or two with a Scandallo girl. (And she is equally hot. She would slay at Scandallo.

A week or so prior to the date she asks me to send the money and scam alert goes on high. I tell her I never do that and she backs off. But now every time we communicate I am wondering in the back of my mind. And in fact day before the trip she asks if I can send Uber money. Again red flag, but I decide to do it. If I'm out $40 then there are tons of chicks I can see including Mia the TEN, so not sweating it.

Turns out to be legit and she actually shows! We have a fuck of a time finding each other but soon I see this tanned goddess approaching and I know it's her. She throws her arms around me and kisses me and says I missed you so much baby. It's so amazing and affectionate and I'm like how the fuck could we have one three hour date and just fall back into it. But here she is!

To recap, Manu is a super slim girl with an amazing ass and well done fake tits that look perfect on her frame. Her face is spectacular and her long wavy hair past her ass absolutely to die for. Add a thousand watt smile and you have Manu. Best of all, however is she is sooooo affectionate. More on that soon.

She's very confident and somewhat dominant, which is kinda a refreshing change. She grabs my hand and we walk hand in hand to the Uber. She holds my hand in her lap all the way to the hotel. Ok baby. I am all yours!

At the hotel we lose no time and are making out on the bed instantly. She kisses passionately like Brasileiras do and tongue fucks me as I grow hard. She is on top grinding and there is no question we are a couple of horny bunnies and it's on from the get go.

I won't recap the whole thing because we fucked five times in two days and honestly it's all a bit of a blur so I will just hit some highlights.

I think the first round highlight is that I gave her a massive DATY orgasm. If you followed my São Paulo antics you know my buddy Mark has been coaching up my DATY game and I brought it down on Manu. Spending a good 20 minutes and some gspot magic also (she likes circles) she has a very physical O. The only way to describe it is like a paint roller coming down from inside and squeezing your finger out. LOL. Most girls clamp around your finger at orgasm but I had the paint roller thing happen with a girl in Cinci and it's the most remarkable thing. Anyhow, mission accomplished.

That night we have the most spectacular sushi dinner at a restaurant only a block away and have a lovely bottle of wine as well. We eat till we are stuffed and it's it USD $70 including the wine. I love Brazil! And then of course we fuck again! Eight hours in and two shots in the rearview. This girl is a tiger.

As I write this I am reminded of the things I love most about this girl. And one is affection. At dinner that first night we must have kissed at least ten times. She just gets this look of lust in her eyes and purses her lips and we meet halfway across the table for a lovely kiss. Right there in the restaurant. At lunch she's saying how much she loves my eyes. And she just wants to look into them, which we do for long periods. Hers a lovely liquid chocolate. She will softly kiss or stroke my arm or tongue fuck me or grab my ass in public when the mood strikes her. She's a hot as fuck vixen.

The other thing I love about her is the way she interacted with my friend Mark. We were going down for a drink and I asked if she minded if my friend Mark joined and she was like "why would I mind? Of course. " And throughout the couple days, yes we had lots of private time, but we also hung out the three of us together and laughed and drank and just had a blast. She's just a free spirit. When Mark left for the airport he came by our room to say bye. She sprang from the bed and gave him a huge hug and bom voyage. Her affection could light up the world.

Second day I have work and she stays behind and goes to the pool. Hard to keep a straight face when she sends me a bikini shot in the middle of a meeting. Fuck she has a rockin body.

Don't quite recall the afternoon sex but that's not because it wasnt good. Just not AS good. But important ground work was laid. I am dying to fuck her bare (I am smitten with her!) but know that's a tough nut to crack. Nonetheless in the heat of the moment I make a half hearted attempt which she rebuffs sweetly. As I grab the condom I say "maybe later" and she says yes maybe later. Hmmm interesting.

And I def recall that she strips off her dress in one fluid motion and has no panties nor did she wear any the entire trip!

Later that night, we have some superb Italian and a wonderful Malbec which we both adore. Many cross table kisses and I'm getting a chub knowing she has no panties on just inches away. Back in the room it is just the most lovely chemistry. I had given her a back massage on our first date which she adores so I reprise that. It's kinda a secret weapon and gets girls horny as fuck.

Stripping off her dress, she's buck naked and I get to my undies for the massage. I grind her ass crack with my dick as I give a legit back massage. Then I get my undies off and start on her ass. I am licking the backs of her legs and massaging her ass and dropping my tongue into her sweet juices from behind from time to time.

I straddle her again and start massage, working my way down to her ass. As I grind her ass crack with my dick I push it down to her pussy opening and say I will just touch it. But soon she is grinding in a circle and starting to inch my dick inside her. Before long I am fully inserted bareback and it's on! Love that SHE did it not me. I just had to make the opportunity!

OMG. No words for bareback with this goddess. Just absolutely epic. We are drunk as fuck and so despite the ecstatic feel, we go forever, eventually collapsing from pure sweaty exhaustion. But what a fuckton of fun.

Third day is our last day and I have to work again. But when I come "home" she showers me in kisses, like the best girlfriend you could imagine. We decide to bop to the bar and split a Caipirinha so I can perform well —- she seems excited by this. And strategic guy I am, I sit next to her rather than across so she can access my mouth more easily. She says several times how much she will miss me and tongue fucks me heartily in front of everyone. Like five times. Love this girl.

Back in the room we cuddle briefly and we are making out like teenagers. She's one of those girls whose pussy is connected directly to her mouth because when she pulls off her dress she already has pussy juice dripping down her butt! From kissing! Love that.

I do her tits well with my mouth which she loves then some DATY and she tastes like a million bucks. I take off my undies and there is no hesitation this time. She pulls me towards her urgently and inserts my rock hard dick right inside her and gasps.

OMG. So amazing. We fuck in every position we can think of but the Steve is the ticket. I'the been teaching her English so she is yelling out "Fuck me teacher!" As I pound away. The sex is just too fucking good. I want to do more but I feel the build and pullout and shoot a shattering load that hits just below her tits. Wow.

The next couple hours are kiss and spoon and cuddle. She gives me an amazing fairwell kiss at my Uber and turns away with tears in her eyes. Me too! It was awesome. I hope to fly her somewhere soon.

In January, I posted a few observations about my initial contacts with same ladies on Seeking in the Paris thread of the France forum here on ISG. I noted that I was cautiously optimistic about my chances during my upcoming visit. I came back from my one week trip to Paris earlier this month and here is my brief report.

I met three desirable ladies in person (I will call them Femme 1, Femme 2 and Femme 3), had dinner with all three and sex with two of the three. I didn't pay anything beyond the cost of dinner for the social time that I spent with all three and I paid 300 Euros each to the two that I had sex with.

Femme 1 was the first one that I met on my second night in Paris. She is a 30 ish, pretty, fit, blond, well educated and interesting single woman who is employed fulltime at a financial institution. It was easy to set up a date with her and she never mentioned money even once during our messaging on WhatsApp. In fact, since we never did consummate our relationship, she never mentioned money when I was with her in person either. She was the most attractive of the three women that I met. In the USA a woman with her looks could easily command $500+ on a PPM basis on Seeking.

We started off with a drink at a cafe close to my hotel and she seemed interested in spending more time with me so I suggested dinner at a nearby nice but modest restaurant and she agreed. Though she spoke some English, my French was much better than her English and so we conversed in French. The conversation flowed pretty easily and I found myself feeling that it was hard to believe that things could go so well, especially compared to how challenging it can be to find desirable women where I live in the USA (mid size city in the southeast USA). Dinner and wine were good and we walked back to my hotel. I invited her to come up to my room to "listen to some music" since we had talked about our tastes in music (I always travel with a Sony mini speaker for such occasions). I was surprised when she accepted because it was late and she had to work the next day but when good fortune smiles on me, I don't don't question it.

So we went up to my room and sitting close to each other, we listened to and talked about music. In the back of mind, I kept thinking that she would give me a clear signal to discuss sex and a price that would please her and me but she never ventured there. Strangely, I got the feeling that she viewed Seeking as more or less a normal dating site and that sex on a first date was just not something that she did. She mentioned that a friend of hers had met a guy on Seeking and gotten married to him.

Since she was not giving me the green light, I didn't want to offend her by making an explicit proposition so I didn't, but I was hoping that maybe a second date the next day would lead to sex. We did hold hands and we kissed lightly a couple times. Nevertheless, I was puzzled. Why would she pick me, old enough to be her father to go on a normal date with? I was well-qualified to be her client in a mutually satisfying business deal, but I couldn't understand why she would spend her time with me--a foreigner, in town for only a week and significantly older than her-- on a normal date. But I enjoyed spending time with her and I wasn't bothered by the fact that we clearly were not going to have sex that night.

We eventually called it a night and she said she would like to see me again while I was in town, maybe to do something during the day on her day off or to have another dinner. I said I would love that and she left. Since it has been a while since I had had a dinner companion of her beauty and charm, I was happy with my evening and hopeful for a different end to a second meeting.

[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2896083]I think you and I are the same person. I could've written this post almost verbatim. Everything except hanging out with escorts.
[/QUOTE]Ha, most interesting, I think we (in this thread) generally have similar / broad goals of good times (LT) with various women.

The escorts part was unexpected and pretty interesting. The 2 most memorable were: an angel as my GFE super sweetheart, who pretty much set my standard and a seemingly sweet devil who tricked many guys (I didn't know it at the time, got out unscathed luckily). Definitely an eventful year, many moons ago. This showed me even more of what is possible, but to be always cautious.

And yes, FKKs or any other "legendary" scenes definitely need to be checked out for ones' self. May or may not be a repeat, but I definitely look forward to finally visiting Scandallo in SP as my trip got cut short.

[QUOTE=CaptRenno;2896732]I was happy with my evening and hopeful for a different end to a second meeting.[/QUOTE]Interesting. Curious to see where this goes!

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2896099]I love Canadians, they are so annoyingly friendly... I've been kicking around opening a new paid account to do some shopping in Vancouver, Toronto, or Montreal for a long weekend but I'm happy enough with my current SB it's not more than a thought. I don't recall many posts about Canada on this thread. I wonder if anyone is cashing in on the great Canadian national personality.[/QUOTE]I have yet to partake in the CAD SB scene, but I believe FastMdSter has had great results.

F.

But if she's sitting the bed, she's open for business especially if she agreed to come upstairs for some cheesy line like "listening to music. ".

Made that mistake a couple times very early on. I realize the fact that she's even there is mind-boggling (it gets me every time). But you missed an opportunity. Next time bang her.

[QUOTE=CaptRenno;2896732]In January, I posted a few observations about my initial contacts with same ladies on Seeking in the Paris thread of the France forum here on ISG. I noted that I was cautiously optimistic about my chances during my upcoming visit. I came back from my one week trip to Paris earlier this month and here is my brief report.

I met three desirable ladies in person (I will call them Femme 1, Femme 2 and Femme 3), had dinner with all three and sex with two of the three. I didn't pay anything beyond the cost of dinner for the social time that I spent with all three and I paid 300 Euros each to the two that I had sex with.

Femme 1 was the first one that I met on my second night in Paris. She is a 30 ish, pretty, fit, blond, well educated and interesting single woman who is employed fulltime at a financial institution. It was easy to set up a date with her and she never mentioned money even once during our messaging on WhatsApp. In fact, since we never did consummate our relationship, she never mentioned money when I was with her in person either. She was the most attractive of the three women that I met. In the USA a woman with her looks could easily command $500+ on a PPM basis on Seeking.

We started off with a drink at a cafe close to my hotel and she seemed interested in spending more time with me so I suggested dinner at a nearby nice but modest restaurant and she agreed. Though she spoke some English, my French was much better than her English and so we conversed in French. The conversation flowed pretty easily and I found myself feeling that it was hard to believe that things could go so well, especially compared to how challenging it can be to find desirable women where I live in the USA (mid size city in the southeast USA). Dinner and wine were good and we walked back to my hotel. I invited her to come up to my room to "listen to some music" since we had talked about our tastes in music (I always travel with a Sony mini speaker for such occasions). I was surprised when she accepted because it was late and she had to work the next day but when good fortune smiles on me, I don't don't question it.

So we went up to my room and sitting close to each other, we listened to and talked about music. In the back of mind, I kept thinking that she would give me a clear signal to discuss sex and a price that would please her and me but she never ventured there. Strangely, I got the feeling that she viewed Seeking as more or less a normal dating site and that sex on a first date was just not something that she did. She mentioned that a friend of hers had met a guy on Seeking and gotten married to him.

Since she was not giving me the green light, I didn't want to offend her by making an explicit proposition so I didn't, but I was hoping that maybe a second date the next day would lead to sex. We did hold hands and we kissed lightly a couple times. Nevertheless, I was puzzled. Why would she pick me, old enough to be her father to go on a normal date with? I was well-qualified to be her client in a mutually satisfying business deal, but I couldn't understand why she would spend her time with me--a foreigner, in town for only a week and significantly older than her-- on a normal date. But I enjoyed spending time with her and I wasn't bothered by the fact that we clearly were not going to have sex that night.

We eventually called it a night and she said she would like to see me again while I was in town, maybe to do something during the day on her day off or to have another dinner. I said I would love that and she left. Since it has been a while since I had had a dinner companion of her beauty and charm, I was happy with my evening and hopeful for a different end to a second meeting.[/QUOTE]

Femme 1 followed up with me the next day, but only to say that she was too tired and too busy at work to meet me that evening. I replied that I understood and let her know that I would really like to meet her again but I decided not to invest any more time and energy in her, since I would be in Paris only for several more days. If I had been sticking around longer, then I think there would have been a decent chance to turn the relationship into something worthwhile (including sex for $) but I just didn't have time, especially considering that I had other contacts to explore.

So I moved on to Femme 2. Her photos were very nice-she had a French girl next door innocence look that was very appealing but also a couple sexy bathing suit shots that were even more appealing. Also, reading between the lines of her profile, she seemed much more open to playing ball right from the start. I messaged her on WhatsApp the next day, following up on a few exchanges that we had had while I was still in the USA. She was eager and available that same night. I was somewhat relieved when she turned the back and forth on WhatsApp to the topic of compensation and specifics of a meeting. I proposed dinner and then "intimacy" back at my room for that night. She said that her rate was 400 Euros for such a PPM encounter and I replied that I was "used to" paying 200. Without hesitation she countered with 300 and I accepted.

She arrived at my hotel on time and upon meeting her in person, I liked her look but she didn't really measure up to Femme 1 in looks and charm. It was clear to me that she had done this more than a few times and maybe I wasn't catching her on her best night. Like Femme 1, she worked in finance and maybe found her job less than fulfilling and kind of boring. She had a good education and had spent a year in northern California at an American university business school. Interestingly, it was during that year that one of her classmates and friends had turned her on to Seeking. She must have been much in demand in her role as the French college girl sugar baby in America.

Dinner was fine and she was interesting to talk to. Her English was excellent and we conversed back and forth in both languages. I didn't like the restaurant where we wound up and I didn't find her as charming and appealing as Femme 1. But she was cute, young, had a pretty nice body and there were no doubts about what we would do back in my room.

So we returned to my room and got down to business. She performed well but I didn't feel any real passion during the encounter. Maybe she was thinking that I would not be around for repeat business so she didn't have to put on her best performance. I liked her, I enjoyed her company and the sex was pretty good (especially after the previous letdown with Femme 1), but if I had been staying in Paris for a while, I would not have wanted to meet her again. It seemed like there were lots more possibilities out there.

So the next day, I messaged on WhatsApp a couple more ladies with whom I had already made contact. Both responded positively to me and I got the feeling that both would be fun dates who would also provide what a man wants, though neither one brought up the subject of money. I actually like that because it made it feel like more of a challenge to reach a satisfying deal. Neither one could meet that night but both could meet the following night. I liked the looks of both-one was a more mature, MILFy and very attractive North African woman and the other was a younger (25) Eurasian cutie. I love women with a look that is a bit exotic so they both appealed to me. It was a tough choice but I picked the younger Eurasian.

So I set up a dinner date with Femme 3, the Eurasian, for the following night. We consulted about the restaurant and she recommended a traditional French place that would be convenient for both of us to reach.

She even made a reservation.

The next evening I found her waiting outside the restaurant at the appointed hour. Her photos are very nice and she lived up to them. She is a mix of southeast Asian and European and the result is very appealing. She carries a little extra weight but in a nice way with womanly curves and nice boobs. Her face is model pretty with perfect skin and a pretty smile.

She was a very charming and fun dinner companion and the meal was very good. We shared a bottle of wine and the dinner passed enjoyably. We walked back to my hotel and I invited her up to "listen to music", but I don't think I even needed to use that line again. She was happy to come back to my room.

Once in the room, she was very coy. I knew she was willing to have sex but she allowed me to move things along. After a while we wound up lounging on the bed and I initiated some physical contact including some light kisses. Wow! It was like I lit a fire inside her. She kissed back enthusiastically. With tongues. This girl was a kisser extraordinaire. She loved to kiss and allowed free roaming of my hands.

However, I wasn't sure that I was ready to take her on that night. I was tired from a long day of activity and the wine and the food didn't put me in my best form for sex. Also we still hadn't discussed her compensation. I proposed that we meet again the next night and do the bedroom activities first and then go to another dinner. I mentioned a number (300 Euros) and she said that would be good. So after more kissing and cuddling she left and I looked forward to the next night.

She returned to my hotel early the next evening and we proceeded directly to where we had left off the night before. As she undressed, she revealed that she was wearing some nice lingerie including matching white bra, panties, garter belt and stockings. I had not asked for that, but what a nice, thoughtful gesture on her part. She looked fabulous and the whole package got my motor running. The sex was great, especially in doggie position facing the full length mirror on the bathroom door (located very close to the bed in my tiny hotel room).

We finished up and went out for another nice dinner at an Italian place that she also had recommended.

So I feel like I had a successful Seeking experience in Paris. I had never used it before outside of my home area and I didn't know what to expect. But all in all, it was far better and easier to find, meet and and enjoy the intimate companionship of desirable women than in my home area. And still reasonably priced, considering that Paris is an expensive city. Quite apart from the three women that I met, I had a great time in Paris. But adding in those three interesting encounters made my week in Paris that much more enjoyable.

[QUOTE=FilthyBeaver;2896746]But if she's sitting the bed, she's open for business especially if she agreed to come upstairs for some cheesy line like "listening to music. ".

Made that mistake a couple times very early on. I realize the fact that she's even there is mind-boggling (it gets me every time). But you missed an opportunity. Next time bang her.[/QUOTE]Well, even though it was a tiny room, she wasn't sitting on the bed. I was sitting on the bed and she was in a chair next to me. I did initiate physical contact, but I didn't get the response I was hoping for (enthusiastic kissing in return).

Since it was my first foray into a Seeking encounter in a foreign land, I didn't want to put myself in a awkward situation. She had already given me some "go slow" signals, so I decided on a strategy of tactical retreat and a possible renewed offensive on Day 2 of the battle. But that never happened.

Heading to Singapore and Hong Kong for a few days each. How is the SA scene in those cities? Any advice would be appreciated.

[QUOTE=Anaggie;2896970]Heading to Singapore and Hong Kong for a few days each. How is the SA scene in those cities? Any advice would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]Though I didn't meet her on Seeking, I had a great experience in Hong Kong in 2016.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?951-General-Reports&p=2028738&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2028738.

[QUOTE=CaptRenno;2896983]Though I didn't meet her on Seeking, I had a great experience in Hong Kong in 2016.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?951-General-Reports&p=2028738&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2028738.[/QUOTE]Great report CR! Yeah, you did not use seeking but you had a seeking like experience. You write very well. That was like a romance novel.

[QUOTE=CaptRenno;2896983]Though I didn't meet her on Seeking, I had a great experience in Hong Kong in 2016.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?951-General-Reports&p=2028738&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2028738.[/QUOTE]My last trip to Hong Kong was back in 2019 and I was in the city once a year. Wan Chai bars were my pick up joints and I would hook up with a Colombian or Venezuelan but I have heard the pandemic killed the business in wan chai so I am looking at other options.

[QUOTE=Anaggie;2897139]My last trip to Hong Kong was back in 2019 and I was in the city once a year. Wan Chai bars were my pick up joints...but I have heard the pandemic killed the business in wan chai so I am looking at other options.[/QUOTE]During the same trip that I met Bee in a HK bar, I also spent time in Singapore. Before leaving the US, I created a profile on "Date In Asia" ([URL]https://www.dateinasia.com/[/URL]). I got some good responses and contact info, including a Filipina nanny / maid and, after exchanging several messages on the site and on WhatsApp with her, we set up a "date. " Such women usually have one day off (it's usually Saturday evening until Monday morning, I think) and some are looking for a good time on their day off.

So she came to my hotel late Saturday afternoon and then spent the next 24 hours with me. I took her to dinner and then we had sex and she slept over. We had sex again in the morning--she took me bareback that time and it was nice. That day I took her to Universal Studios park in Singapore (something she had asked to do on our date) and I bought her a few small things. She never asked for payment in return for the sex. She was happy just to have a day away from work, some sex, good meals and a fun time at Universal.

So that's another approach to try. It might work as well as or better than Seeking.

[QUOTE=CaptRenno;2896867]Well, even though it was a tiny room, she wasn't sitting on the bed. I was sitting on the bed and she was in a chair next to me. I did initiate physical contact, but I didn't get the response I was hoping for (enthusiastic kissing in return).

Since it was my first foray into a Seeking encounter in a foreign land, I didn't want to put myself in a awkward situation. She had already given me some "go slow" signals, so I decided on a strategy of tactical retreat and a possible renewed offensive on Day 2 of the battle. But that never happened.[/QUOTE]You probably did the right thing. But don't sell urself short. You have it in you to seduce her that first night. A few thoughts on this:

1. As said before if she's in the bedroom you are halfway there.

2. She's prob DTF but nervous or uncomfortable.

3. I've had several dates like this. And I always start by addressing it rather than assuming. I say something like "you seem kinda nervous" or "it seems like maybe you don't have chemistry towards me. That's ok it happens some times. " And see what she says.

4. Always reassure her that you don't want to do anything she doesn't want to do.

5. And then try to move to something intimate but not threatening. Like let's just have a glass of wine and check out the view.

Recently I suggested a massage and that was the ticket. I've also twice had success say ok let's just make out but we can stop short or doing anything too intimate. And damn if we don't end up fucking!

My fave was a girl in Vegas who literally said "I can't have sex with a guy I just met". But after making out and working her tits and her pussy through her jeans 20 minutes later she says "ok we can fuck now". LOL. And she was texting her mom while we fucked that she'the be home soon. LOL.

Ps I think it was important in all of these cases I didn’t expect to end in sex. I was just doing something fun we were both comfortable with. I think the sex happened because it wasn’t the goal. It’s surprising how women can pick up on a vibe like this.

A Pretty Seductress 24 wanted 2 k USD for a short arrangement in DXB.

I said I will be back after printing my benjmans LOL.

Not sure what she likes for a longterm arrangement, couple of kidneys I guess.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2897465]You probably did the right thing. But don't sell urself short. You have it in you to seduce her that first night. A few thoughts on this.

...I think it was important in all of these cases I didnt expect to end in sex. I was just doing something fun we were both comfortable with. I think the sex happened because it wasnt the goal. Its surprising how women can pick up on a vibe like this.[/QUOTE]Thanks, Steve. That's excellent advice and I can see how I might have used it with Femme 1 in Paris. When I look back on that night, I do think that she wanted to have sex but I didn't succeed in putting her fully at ease, so I blame myself as much as her. I will put your advice to good use next time I find myself in a similar situation. Thanks!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2897465]
Ps I think it was important in all of these cases I didnt expect to end in sex. I was just doing something fun we were both comfortable with. I think the sex happened because it wasnt the goal. It’s surprising how women can pick up on a vibe like this.[/QUOTE]Good advice. Sometimes just being chill also leads to no sex, but coming on strong in these situations wasn't going to be a winning strategy anyway.

Hi all,

Just like title says: Mexican (living in cdmx, not only visiting) do exist.

We understand local culture, but your input is much appreciated.

Yes, we might increase prices for you all (not that it'll make any difference to your finances, but it helps avoid exploitation).

It's great here (MX in general, cdmx in particular), just give back what's fair.

Where is the report?

[QUOTE=Ghiat;2897769]Hi all,

Just like title says: Mexican (living in cdmx, not only visiting) do exist.

We understand local culture, but your input is much appreciated.

Yes, we might increase prices for you all (not that it'll make any difference to your finances, but it helps avoid exploitation).

It's great here (MX in general, cdmx in particular), just give back what's fair.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Simplii;2897941]Where is the report?[/QUOTE]Exactly, everyone wants free advice, then they are the first to complain, when the he trip does not go as planned. SA takes Hard work, Time, Money, luck and some game.

Absolutely. I'm with you.

Can't wait to arrange. Right now I'm busy, but hope soon.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2897942]Exactly, everyone wants free advice, then they are the first to complain, when the he trip does not go as planned. SA takes Hard work, Time, Money, luck and some game.[/QUOTE]

Happy for your experience. Thanks for sharing.

This seems to be the norm for most European cities. A good dinner + 300 EUR gets great sex. Lets not let it inflate.

[QUOTE=CaptRenno;2896763]Femme 1 followed up with me the next day, but only to say that she was too tired and too busy at work to meet me that evening. I replied that I understood and let her know that I would really like to meet her again but I decided not to invest any more time and energy in her, since I would be in Paris only for several more days. If I had been sticking around longer, then I think there would have been a decent chance to turn the relationship into something worthwhile (including sex for $) but I just didn't have time, especially considering that I had other contacts to explore.

So I moved on to Femme 2. Her photos were very nice-she had a French girl next door innocence look that was very appealing but also a couple sexy bathing suit shots that were even more appealing. Also, reading between the lines of her profile, she seemed much more open to playing ball right from the start. I messaged her on WhatsApp the next day, following up on a few exchanges that we had had while I was still in the USA. She was eager and available that same night. I was somewhat relieved when she turned the back and forth on WhatsApp to the topic of compensation and specifics of a meeting. I proposed dinner and then "intimacy" back at my room for that night. She said that her rate was 400 Euros for such a PPM encounter and I replied that I was "used to" paying 200. Without hesitation she countered with 300 and I accepted.

She arrived at my hotel on time and upon meeting her in person, I liked her look but she didn't really measure up to Femme 1 in looks and charm. It was clear to me that she had done this more than a few times and maybe I wasn't catching her on her best night. Like Femme 1, she worked in finance and maybe found her job less than fulfilling and kind of boring. She had a good education and had spent a year in northern California at an American university business school. Interestingly, it was during that year that one of her classmates and friends had turned her on to Seeking. She must have been much in demand in her role as the French college girl sugar baby in America.

Dinner was fine and she was interesting to talk to. Her English was excellent and we conversed back and forth in both languages. I didn't like the restaurant where we wound up and I didn't find her as charming and appealing as Femme 1. But she was cute, young, had a pretty nice body and there were no doubts about what we would do back in my room.

So we returned to my room and got down to business. She performed well but I didn't feel any real passion during the encounter. Maybe she was thinking that I would not be around for repeat business so she didn't have to put on her best performance. I liked her, I enjoyed her company and the sex was pretty good (especially after the previous letdown with Femme 1), but if I had been staying in Paris for a while, I would not have wanted to meet her again. It seemed like there were lots more possibilities out there.

So the next day, I messaged on WhatsApp a couple more ladies with whom I had already made contact. Both responded positively to me and I got the feeling that both would be fun dates who would also provide what a man wants, though neither one brought up the subject of money. I actually like that because it made it feel like more of a challenge to reach a satisfying deal. Neither one could meet that night but both could meet the following night. I liked the looks of both-one was a more mature, MILFy and very attractive North African woman and the other was a younger (25) Eurasian cutie. I love women with a look that is a bit exotic so they both appealed to me. It was a tough choice but I picked the younger Eurasian.

So I set up a dinner date with Femme 3, the Eurasian, for the following night. We consulted about the restaurant and she recommended a traditional French place that would be convenient for both of us to reach.

She even made a reservation.

The next evening I found her waiting outside the restaurant at the appointed hour. Her photos are very nice and she lived up to them. She is a mix of southeast Asian and European and the result is very appealing. She carries a little extra weight but in a nice way with womanly curves and nice boobs. Her face is model pretty with perfect skin and a pretty smile.

She was a very charming and fun dinner companion and the meal was very good. We shared a bottle of wine and the dinner passed enjoyably. We walked back to my hotel and I invited her up to "listen to music", but I don't think I even needed to use that line again. She was happy to come back to my room.

Once in the room, she was very coy. I knew she was willing to have sex but she allowed me to move things along. After a while we wound up lounging on the bed and I initiated some physical contact including some light kisses. Wow! It was like I lit a fire inside her. She kissed back enthusiastically. With tongues. This girl was a kisser extraordinaire. She loved to kiss and allowed free roaming of my hands.

However, I wasn't sure that I was ready to take her on that night. I was tired from a long day of activity and the wine and the food didn't put me in my best form for sex. Also we still hadn't discussed her compensation. I proposed that we meet again the next night and do the bedroom activities first and then go to another dinner. I mentioned a number (300 Euros) and she said that would be good. So after more kissing and cuddling she left and I looked forward to the next night.

She returned to my hotel early the next evening and we proceeded directly to where we had left off the night before. As she undressed, she revealed that she was wearing some nice lingerie including matching white bra, panties, garter belt and stockings. I had not asked for that, but what a nice, thoughtful gesture on her part. She looked fabulous and the whole package got my motor running. The sex was great, especially in doggie position facing the full length mirror on the bathroom door (located very close to the bed in my tiny hotel room).

We finished up and went out for another nice dinner at an Italian place that she also had recommended.

So I feel like I had a successful Seeking experience in Paris. I had never used it before outside of my home area and I didn't know what to expect. But all in all, it was far better and easier to find, meet and and enjoy the intimate companionship of desirable women than in my home area. And still reasonably priced, considering that Paris is an expensive city. Quite apart from the three women that I met, I had a great time in Paris. But adding in those three interesting encounters made my week in Paris that much more enjoyable.[/QUOTE]

Do you ever invest time in chatting with girls "platonic" and try to convert them? Or is it a waste of time?

Of late, I see some profiles on west coast. Interesting, GND, my type girls.

But they are looking for "platonic". I know US has golden pussy syndrome. It seems to be going towards only gold. No pussy now.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2899040]Do you ever invest time in chatting with girls "platonic" and try to convert them? Or is it a waste of time?

Of late, I see some profiles on west coast. Interesting, GND, my type girls.

But they are looking for "platonic". I know US has golden pussy syndrome. It seems to be going towards only gold. No pussy now.[/QUOTE]Usually a platonic tag means platonic only. I've had girls say "oh I put that to say I am open to it, not that is the only thing I'the do". I of course counsel that if she wants some action she should remove it because guys screen it out. So yeah there can be girls who out of ignorance put it.

I usually addres it in the chat if they are worth pursuing. But if she's like on only platonic or only online then next next.

But I love these profiles. I play a little game with myself because one if two things happens. They delete their accounts when they find out they're wasting their time or they remove it and keep the account hoping to land a guy. I like to guess how long it takes for either to happen based on the way they write in their profile.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2899040]Do you ever invest time in chatting with girls "platonic" and try to convert them? Or is it a waste of time?

Of late, I see some profiles on west coast. Interesting, GND, my type girls.

But they are looking for "platonic". I know US has golden pussy syndrome. It seems to be going towards only gold. No pussy now.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2899040]Do you ever invest time in chatting with girls "platonic" and try to convert them? Or is it a waste of time?

Of late, I see some profiles on west coast. Interesting, GND, my type girls.

But they are looking for "platonic". I know US has golden pussy syndrome. It seems to be going towards only gold. No pussy now.[/QUOTE]It seems a bit like going to a lesbian bar because hey you never know maybe that cute girl is straight and is just accompanying her friends right?

I'd say you're better off fishing where the fish are. Platonic = red flag to me.

Well, how do you guys feel about having your profiles favorited by people who never even looked at them? When I was very active on the site, I found a high correlation between that and the person being a fake, flake, fraudster, or scammer. Has that been your experience as well?

I tried to start a convo about how to spot catfishers and fakes a while back but it never got off the ground. A single picture is also a red flag for me as is any pics in Dubai or model / magazine quality pics.

I'm fairly liberal about giving out my number early on when I get someone on the hook but I'd say once every 6 mo or so someone trues to text me under the auspices of having the wrong number only to try to flip the conversation and befriend me. It's harmless and sometimes I choose to screw with them but fir the uninitiated any person who sends you their pic after 2 two texts under the auspices of a wrong number is scamming you! There. My PSA for the day.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2899336]Well, how do you guys feel about having your profiles favorited by people who never even looked at them? When I was very active on the site, I found a high correlation between that and the person being a fake, flake, fraudster, or scammer. Has that been your experience as well?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TheCane;2899336]Well, how do you guys feel about having your profiles favorited by people who never even looked at them? When I was very active on the site, I found a high correlation between that and the person being a fake, flake, fraudster, or scammer. Has that been your experience as well?[/QUOTE]Common, I don't have picture and I woke up this morning to have 6, only one read my profile.

It's like Tinder, many just blindly swipe everyone to increase matches.

And this from time to time, has not asked me to send money yet. haha

I honestly completely ignore the favorites section. I don't really care who favorites me because if I'm interested ima going to find you before you find me.

I really manage my whole seeking world thru search and chat. Favorites meh. I do sometimes look at who read my profile but only if I am in a chat and think "did she even read my profile because it seems like not".

But yeah. I browse and I chat. That's it.

This maybe a weird question. How do you breakup with long-term sugar baby? I am in a situation that I have more girls than I could handle simultaneously. Should I do it the way normally done for a girlfriend or straight forward without any beating around the Bush?

I've been the one dumped for all my LT SBs but I guess it depends on if she's on a monthly allowance or ppm. If it's an allowance you can tell her it doesn't work for you anymore (honest) or your brother lost his job and you need to help him out (less than honest) or cut her off and ghost her with no explanation (douche move and very dicey if she knows anything about you). If she's ppm you have a third choice which would be to stop calling. Don't be a douche and ghost her but stop calling, she'll get the hint. Return her texts / calls and just tell her you're not available. Keep in mind they have way more options than we do, she'll find a date the day she's over you.

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;2899592]This maybe a weird question. How do you breakup with long-term sugar baby? I am in a situation that I have more girls than I could handle simultaneously. Should I do it the way normally done for a girlfriend or straight forward without any beating around the Bush?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;2899592]This maybe a weird question. How do you breakup with long-term sugar baby? I am in a situation that I have more girls than I could handle simultaneously. Should I do it the way normally done for a girlfriend or straight forward without any beating around the Bush?[/QUOTE]Depends. Are these multiple LOCAL sugar babies? Because yeah that's a bit problematic. If they are girls in other cities I never break up. Just go quiet or say you aren't visiting soon. Basically just keep them warm.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2899607]Depends. Are these multiple LOCAL sugar babies? Because yeah that's a bit problematic. If they are girls in other cities I never break up. Just go quiet or say you aren't visiting soon. Basically just keep them warm.[/QUOTE]Thanks, they are all local, monthly payments and know my apartment entry codes (need to change that too). I will try FilthyBeaver's idea of helping out broke brother excuse.

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;2899592]This maybe a weird question. How do you breakup with long-term sugar baby? I am in a situation that I have more girls than I could handle simultaneously. Should I do it the way normally done for a girlfriend or straight forward without any beating around the Bush?[/QUOTE]I would tell them you are having financial issues and cannot afford to pay them. Maybe one will offer to keep seeing you for nothing.

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;2899592]This maybe a weird question. How do you breakup with long-term sugar baby? I am in a situation that I have more girls than I could handle simultaneously. Should I do it the way normally done for a girlfriend or straight forward without any beating around the Bush?[/QUOTE]I've never had to terminate a relationship like this. Because I tend to do PPM. Sometimes multiple times, but never long-term arrangement.

Let me tell you something. I run a company. Lots of employees. I've learned over and over and over again that direct honest communication is the key. People always think they have to beat around the Bush, or tell a different interpretation of the truth. When somebody sits in front of another person, and just tells the unvarnished truth, it's disarming. Of course, there is some art involved. There's a difference between bluntness and candor. You have to have some finesse and empathy. But the truth wins every time.

I say this knowing full well the irony of posting such a thing on this board.

I am going to try a combo of this approach and FB's.

She is too good to resist. There is tinge of newness in the way she talks / interacts. If things go well, I might have found my keeper.

Worst case, I burn a few hours chatting, few $ hosting a dinner.

But the upside seems too good. Let's see.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2899090]Usually a platonic tag means platonic only. I've had girls say "oh I put that to say I am open to it, not that is the only thing I'the do". I of course counsel that if she wants some action she should remove it because guys screen it out. So yeah there can be girls who out of ignorance put it.

I usually addres it in the chat if they are worth pursuing. But if she's like on only platonic or only online then next next.[/QUOTE]

Poker is a metaphor for most parts of life. If you want to be in the game you need to ante. Someone goes first. It makes sense to me that it's the monger as the girls have been promised all kinds of shit that has never come to fruition. Also since we're the ones with the money they make the sales pitch and we decide to pay or not. Money talks as the saying goes, abd bullshit walks. Go to Walmart and ask them if you can load your toilet paper into your car and come back and pay them once you're done. What do you think the answer will be?

This is not a cheap hobby if anyone is uncomfortable with it go to your run of the mill AMP. If you can't afford that, run down the nearest street with pimps and hookers. You are not going to get a 20 something reasonably intelligent college girl or young professional for $100. You can easy get an over weight Korean or 50 year old Chinese lady for that price in my tier 1 coastal city.

[QUOTE=Gfefan;2899910]I am going to try a combo of this approach and FB's.

She is too good to resist. There is tinge of newness in the way she talks / interacts. If things go well, I might have found my keeper.

Worst case, I burn a few hours chatting, few $ hosting a dinner.

But the upside seems too good. Let's see.[/QUOTE]

Any advice for making photo's unsearchable and more private?

I remember a member saying they use a face blending merging app or tool that combines your face with a celebrity, but I don't remember exactly how they said they did it.

For those experienced in Brazil, are your profile bios in English or Portuguese? Mine is English written, with US location.

I messaged two girls not exactly this but along the lines of, "I'm using Google Translate and will be in Rio in a few weeks. Interested in mutually beneficial arrangement and I always help out with cash". One blocked me, other ignored. Usually when they ignore me, I'll throw out a number in this case, are $1,000. That's a high number in Sao Paulo but still ignored.

My pictures are slightly blurred with me standing against a backdrop of city or outdoor nature views. My bio is a paragraph of my interests and a few sentences. I wrote I'm negotiatiable, open minded, looking for NSA also. Maybe it's the age? I'm almost 30, but since my profile is expiring, remaking it at 31 is possible. Both Income at 100,000.

I don't really mind having my face shown overseas if it helps. My trips would be for 2 week visits, not long term stays. For those with success in these countries, what's your profile bio like, pics, and how do you open with the women?

[QUOTE=Robotron;2900349]For those experienced in Brazil, are your profile bios in English or Portuguese? Mine is English written, with US location.

I messaged two girls not exactly this but along the lines of, "I'm using Google Translate and will be in Rio in a few weeks. Interested in mutually beneficial arrangement and I always help out with cash". One blocked me, other ignored. Usually when they ignore me, I'll throw out a number in this case, are $1,000. That's a high number in Sao Paulo but still ignored.

My pictures are slightly blurred with me standing against a backdrop of city or outdoor nature views. My bio is a paragraph of my interests and a few sentences. I wrote I'm negotiatiable, open minded, looking for NSA also. Maybe it's the age? I'm almost 30, but since my profile is expiring, remaking it at 31 is possible. Both Income at 100,000.

I don't really mind having my face shown overseas if it helps. My trips would be for 2 week visits, not long term stays. For those with success in these countries, what's your profile bio like, pics, and how do you open with the women?[/QUOTE]You don't need to be in anything other than English. You don't need pics. Girls will ask for them once you move over to WhatsApp.

Main thing is to not be so direct. Unless you are just looking for hookers. In which case there are other places. I wrote a guide on how to chat up SA girls and while written primarily for USA it largely applies to South America also. The girls you are looking for on Seeking want to rationalize that they are good girls. So you try to stay away from money for sex. Less true outside the US but still. Actually two hotties I scored in Mexico (see reports three weeks back) would have run for the hills if there was a hint of money for sex.

I will repost the guide here. Perhaps other seniors want to respond with where it's off base or could use some international spin.

I will note however that in addition to the long texting game, I have had very good success with spontaneous dates. When I am in town I say "Going out to a nice dinner tonight. Join me?" I have scored some serious hottie s this way including a Rio 9. 5.

Here is my guide from a few years back. I need to update it a bit so any and all feedback welcome!

Seeking Arrangement Saves the Day -- Release from Pussy Prison.

Good as it was to discover P411 and get out of complete pussy drought, Seeking Arrangement opened a whole new world for me -- Sugar Baby. Sugar Daddy dating. I had gotten a taste of this with Thifany. I mean that is really what we were doing when I flew her to London. I paid her a very reasonable allowance for the week and we just played boyfriend and girlfriend. What fun.

I came to realize through the Thifany experience that I like more than just paid sex. And in fact I love having a girlfriend. I enjoy texting each other. I enjoy that someone cares about me (even if she's pretending -- just never tell me so!) and of course I love the complete experience of dinners and dancing and just acting like real lovers. Not transactional sex partners. And SB / SD is all about this same experience. When done properly.

So how do you do it properly? I suppose this could vary widely depending on what you are after. But I am after a girl who FEELS like a girlfriend. She's affectionate, appreciates an evening above her usual stature in life, and is able to actually enjoy herself with you. She views the allowance / gift (I. E. Money!) as a bonus. Not the only thing she is after. Any girl where I feel money is the primary motivation and she will go with anyone for a high enough price, gets kicked straight to the curb. She's got to be a girlfriend first, and any "benefits" come second.

Knowing that this is the kind of girl I want to attract (and other guys I have talked to also find this persona the most attractive), there is a set of rules you have to play by. Understand that SA is NOT AT ALL like picking up hookers. It is much more like meeting a girl in a bar and seducing her to leave with you. It's just an online bar. Sure you need money, but you also need some texting game and you need to treat her with respect. If you do, you have a chance of closing the deal. However, the moment you disrespect her, she will be gone.

The most important rule when vibing with a girl and getting a meeting set up is: never discuss sex or money. These things will be implied and they will be done offline. Never discuss sex or money on the Seeking Arrangements platform and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat. Plus, it can get you booted from SA for life if you are reported. Don't worry, there are ways to have this conversation properly, explained below.

Start your engagement with a girl with some light chat and flirt. Your opener should be something specific to her that you read in her profile -- not something generic. And ALWAYS end every message with a question. This prompts her to respond. If you don't ask a question, she will not take the initiative and the conversation will just die. You have to drive it; and you drive with questions. Get her to tell you a few things about herself: what she likes to eat, her favorite wine, dog or cat person. It doesn't really matter what you discuss; just something that will get her to engage a bit.

At some point you will establish that you like each other reasonably well and one or the other will suggest taking the conversation off of SA and over to text. If tries to take you offline right away, she is probably a hooker. If she doesn't ask for a pic pretty early on, she is probably a hooker. Often, I am the one to suggest going over to private phone text. You can keep it pretty innocuous, saying you notice she is not on often and it might be easier to connect up by text. But don't do it too early – this spooks the nice girls. Have a conversation over a few days and then take it off SA to texting.

Once you are texting, pick up the thread you had going and continue a little friendly chat. At some point, you will suggest that you think you vibe well and should meet up. Most often she will agree and now its time to establish that you will have sex (without saying it!) and how much is the agreed price (without saying it's a price! Some guys cover the price discussion in person, but I find that awkward and always set it ahead of time.

Once she's said "yeah, lets meetup" I say I want to describe our date to her (this is how I introduce the sex topic without getting explicit.) I usually say something about going out for dinner or drinks and having an epic time, laughing a lot and if the chemistry is right spending some private time (or intimate time or adult time -- insert your favorite euphemism -- but never say SEX!) or on the off chance we don't vibe, we can part after dinner no harm no foul. And ask if that sounds about right to them. Most often, if they are the kind of girl you are after, they will be down with this description and say, sure that sounds good.

This opens the door for the pricing discussion. I usually say something like "Of course I'the want to give you a gift / allowance. Did you have something in mind?" and the negotiation is underway.

Never ever say "what's your price" or "how much do you charge for PPM". Always use the approach above, that you want to give them something. Sometimes, she will say she doesn't know and get you to give the first figure (good negotiating tactic on her part, but often they are in fact new). I am OK with this and say "well, what I've done before is 300. I hope that works for you. " (note no $ sign).

As far as what you should pay, I've found a strong correlation between what a pretty hooker charges for an hour (in a given city) to be what an SA girl will take for an evening. I'the say (pre-pandemic) most big US cities $400 is reasonable for a pretty girl (lots will ask more – I just kick them to the curb) with SF and NYC more like $500. In second tier cities, $300 should do it and I've found a few gems at $200 (though more in the 6-7 category). During the pandemic, I've found a lot of these girls are struggling, so if they ask 500, when 400 is more correct, I usually don't push them on it and just go with what they asked.

Once you have said "we are going to have sex, right" -- without saying it -- and money discussion out of the way, you should be good to go. Just keep on with the flirty texts without being too frequent, clingy or annoying and then meet up at the appointed day and time. More often than not, if you are not terribly objectionable looking, have a little bit of charm, and follow the "let's get out of here" model you might use with a regular pickup, you will end up in the room with your girl and have a rocking time.

Having done this alot (more than 50 times in many different cities), I've found that having sex on the first date is super important. The few times I've had a platonic date (especially a non-alcoholic one) to be followed by sex on the second date – it never happens. You have to take the momentum on that first date and take it all the way to the bedroom. Remember girls are submissive and will largely follow your lead – even if that lead is to the hotel room.

Finally, I should note that how much time you spend with her is largely up to her and how well you vibe. It's not something you negotiate, like you would with a hooker. Most times it will probably be 3-4 hours including dinner and sex, after which she might say she needs to get home. But, in my experience, about 50% of girls sleep over. It's not something you discuss. It just happens. You cuddle after sex and next thing you know she's taking off her necklace to the bedside table. Bingo!

Seeking is absolutely the best, if you take the time to find the gems amongst the bullshit and follow the above guide.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2900446]Here is my guide from a few years back. I need to update it a bit so any and all feedback welcome!

Seeking Arrangement Saves the Day -- Release from Pussy Prison.

Good as it was to discover P411 and get out of complete pussy drought, Seeking Arrangement opened a whole new world for me -- Sugar Baby. Sugar Daddy dating. I had gotten a taste of this with Thifany. I mean that is really what we were doing when I flew her to London. I paid her a very reasonable allowance for the week and we just played boyfriend and girlfriend. What fun.

I came to realize through the Thifany experience that I like more than just paid sex. And in fact I love having a girlfriend. I enjoy texting each other. I enjoy that someone cares about me (even if she's pretending -- just never tell me so!) and of course I love the complete experience of dinners and dancing and just acting like real lovers. Not transactional sex partners. And SB / SD is all about this same experience. When done properly.

So how do you do it properly? I suppose this could vary widely depending on what you are after. But I am after a girl who FEELS like a girlfriend. She's affectionate, appreciates an evening above her usual stature in life, and is able to actually enjoy herself with you. She views the allowance / gift (I. E. Money!) as a bonus. Not the only thing she is after. Any girl where I feel money is the primary motivation and she will go with anyone for a high enough price, gets kicked straight to the curb. She's got to be a girlfriend first, and any "benefits" come second..[/QUOTE]Amazing report as always, thank you for your wisdom. SA has changed my life for the better, In so many positive ways. For me to complain about SA would be completely ridiculous, yes, bad things happen, but that is life. Yes SA, can be hard and expensive, but that is how you succeed in life.