Chiang Mai

Thanks Joe for that info. Do you have any info about crossing the river to Burma or Loas? The only other thing is I don't know what LOS means.

Soon leaving for CM, Patong B and BKK (got a Thai Airways any 2 towns in Thailand leaving/returning BKK roundtrip ticket for usd 179; must be bought along with your farangland-BKK ticket).

Using the map (2 of them) from joe_zop's 07-16-02 post together with info from this forum and the pages below I have made my own sanuk map/guide ranging from Phucome MP (east) to Pandora MP (west), Nice Illusion (north) to Kam Phaeng Din road (south). Nice Sunday afternoon work... any newbie should do it.

Here are the links:
[url]www.nanapong.com[/url] (CM nightlife)
[url]www.whorist.com[/url] (CM basics/CM nightlife) [url]www.*********.com[/url] (Field reports Thailand/Chiang Mai)
[url]www.chiangmaimall.com[/url] (directory of MP's)
(and lot of info that you find/check using Google)

Cannot wait to leave the snow.......

ianhrt:

First, LOS stands for "Land of Smiles" or in other words, Thailand.

As far as crossing the river into Burma or Laos goes, I have only done the former, and there's nothing to it. Basically, you take the bus to Mae Sai, hop on a songkaew at the bus terminal (5 baht) and have them drop you at the immigration office. You go in there and check out of Thailand, which takes about 5 minutes, go back out and grab the next songkaew to the bridge, and head across to Tachilek, the Burmese city there. There you surrender your passport and pay the toll, and in you go. I didn't stay overnight, so if your plans are more involved than just wandering around on a day trip then you'll need photos, a mimimum of 200USD, and to grab it in advance. If you're going over the river into Laos my understanding is that you need to get your visa in advance, which you can do in a zillion places, either at an embassy or a travel agency. Lots of the latter advertise the service and are reasonable, as they're going to try to make their money on value-added stuff. You can get visas at a couple of entry points, too, but I think they're mainly the airports. Perhaps someone else can chime in here and clarify.

Philo, have a great time, and your approach is an excellent one. I found that printing out a couple of copies of the maps from http://*************************sanukmaps/ to just stick in my pocket while wandering around was a real help. For what it's worth, I never did either Phucome or Pandora, as they're both the more expensive MPs and also the ones farthest afield. Meant to, but never got around to it, so if you go field reports would be much appreciated. I tried both Sayuri and New Nancy, and had an enjoyable time at each. Sayuri is considerably less expensive at 800baht for a basic session, while New Nancy ranges from 1300-1500, depending on the "tier" of the TG you choose, with newbies and the lookers being more expensive. Be aware that as a tourist, both places may try to jack up the prices for you, depending on their sense of how green you are. Just repeat the above prices and you should have no trouble.

Most of the locals swear by Sayuri because it's less expensive and has the largest selection of ladies. I found that while it has lower cost, the rooms have gotten pretty threadbare and are not always terribly clean (rather mildewy), so it's a bit more of dingy experience. You will find a number of long-time pros there who are absolutely expert at what they do. You can also find newer ladies, but as it's a high-traffic place they don't stay that way for long. You're still not going to find the "Eden experience" here, as is true for the most part in the north, but if you're looking for something other than plain vanilla sex Sayuri's probably the best place to look.

New Nancy is attached to the Chiang Mai President hotel and had undergone fairly recent renovation when I was there. There's not as much traffic, not as much selection (maybe 20 ladies as opposed to 50) but I found the ambience better -- nicer rooms, less of a production-line feel, plus it wasn't as far off the track from where I was staying when I went there. Part of the reason for the higher pricing is, I think, because there are a lot of Japanese hotels in the general vicinity (Chiang Mai is a very popular stop for Japanese tourists) but the prices are really no different than Pandora or Phucome, so I think the main objection the locals have is that it used to be cheaper before renovation. Whatever -- I had a very enjoyable time the two times I went there

BTW, as is true elsewhere, whatever you do, don't allow a tuk-tuk driver to take you to Sayuri or one of the other places or you're going to pay a substantial surcharge, anywhere from 500 to 1000baht. That's not a problem at New Nancy, because you can just walk into the hotel or karaoke there and then back out to the MP. If you're looking to go to Sayuri or Pandora, just have them take you to one of the bars across the Mae Ping River, like the River Cafe (there are some nice places to check out here in any event) and then walk over, as it's not all that far. If you're going to Phucome, just have them take you up to Huai Kaeo and Nimmanhemin, jump out at one of the many businesses there, and walk over. Tuk-tuk drivers in Chiang Mai, more than some other places, require vigilance, as they'll consistently try to take you for more baht. They're not as bad as lots of places, but negotiating pays here, and sometimes it's necessary to just flag down someone different. If you're not in a big hurry, songkaews can save you a lot, though I found myself in the habit of simply walking pretty much everywhere after a while, since I was used to the heat and needed the exercise.

Ianhrt,

In addition to Joe's post:
The river crossing to Laos is at ChiangKhong. There are many buses a day from ChiangRai to ChiangKhong. The trip used to take four hours or more, but I understand there is a quicker route now. So taking an early bus from ChR leaves you plenty of time to check the situation.
However: PM Thaksin recently started an all out war on drugs and you may run in to very thorough checks at police/army-roadblocks. Perhaps allow for an extra hour or two...
Best read the BangkokPost d-a-i-l-y to stay up to date on the situation. UrL: [url]www.bangkokpost.com[/url]

Getting a Laos visa: either at the Embassy in BKK or at the consulate in KhonKaen (I don't have an address...). Reliable sources told me recently that the KK route is the quickest. Visa on the same day or the next. Travelagents who 'take care of your visa' will need your passport for at least 4 days. You cannot travel or even change hotels without your passport. When you run into a roadblock you are seriously f**ed if you can't produce a passport.
Bottomline: Leave your passport in your pocket! Don't believe anyone who says: 'I've done it a million times.' Perhaps they have, but without a passport you could end up in ImmigrationPrison. I admit: A cheap holiday:), but a fun one...:(?

The Takilek route is the easiest and cheapest way to renew your Thai visa.

Good point on the passport, Freeler. I'm someone who actually only does visas at embassies or consulates, myself, so my comment regarding travel agencies was a bit glib. On my last trip to LOS, I had meant to get an extended visa before I left so renewal runs wouldn't be necessary, but didn't manage to have the time to run to the regional Thai embassy. I'm loathe to send my passport through the mail or FedEx even in my own country, so why would I want to hand it over half the world away? This is something that comes up a lot if you're renting cars or motorcycles in the north -- plenty of places want you to leave your passport with them, which they see as a guarantee you'll not disappear with their vehicle. I always either negotiated that or scouted around for another place who would take something else -- I'd offer my driver's license or a pile of cash as a security deposit instead and usually had no troubles going that route.

Joe_zop,

The passport-for-rent scheme isn't exactly a favorite of mine, but it is easier to explain to the 'arresting officer' that your passport is at the rental than in, say, Yangon or Penang or 'I don't actually know where my passport is at....'

In a foreign country without passport and visa? Trouble!

OTOH I met this total moron somewhere in LOS last January. He never had a valid visa in five (yes 5) years, except when he came into Thailand for the first time. He said he was arrested and thrown in ImmigrationPrison twice. Cheap holiday:)!
For some reason no-one can understand Thai Immigration did not deport him back to his homeland, but let him stay so he could support the Thai economy with his B300 a day spending habit...

Hi Joe-zop,
Could you please tell me more about Huai Keao and Nimanhemmin ? I have heard that there was an interesting scene on Nimanhemmin, which is a long road with many sois, but I never found anything. Could yuou help ? Thanks.

Erik, I didn't spend very much time over in that neck of things on the sanuk trail, as it was the opposite side of the city from where I was staying, but near that intersection you've got a few things -- Phucome massage and club, some beer bars, etc. Down near Soi 15 are the brothels, but since they're chiefly filled with Burmese women who've been sold into service they represent the worst of the whole scene, and I personally have a moral problem with them, and stayed away. (I hope they get shut down, which they never will, since a high CM police official owns/runs one of them, as they're the kind of thing that gives pay-for-play its bad reputation.) There are several discos on Huai Kaeo just outside the old city, but as a somewhat older fart I tend to be scarce in those. You're right that Nimmanhemin's a long road, and the further down toward Suthep Road you go the less there is, with the exception of the aforementioned brothels. I think there are some things going on north of Huai Kaeo as you head out, as there's tons of activity up there, but my time through that area was chiefly on the way to something else with one of my friends, and I don't think there's huge farang presence out there except for the residence areas -- and there are a couple of farang-heavy neighborhoods out there. I did a couple of restaraunts out there which were clearly Thai-oriented, as they were very surprised to have to deal with me and had little in the way of English, which is unusual in CM. Nimmanhemin's also the general area of the university, (the art center's near Suthep, the main campus further out west) so those of you who chat up uni chicks hoping you can get freebies might look around over there (though most of the uni girls I met tended toward the discos, particularly the ones in the general night market area.)

Freeler, I think your story illustrates the general rule that Thai police usually simply don't want much to do with tourists, unless you're being seriously stupid or a problem. But of course it only takes one cop with an attitude, and you're sunk if you don't have your stuff in order. (Your story also demonstrates that idiots are everywhere :) and sometimes travel under lucky stars, though two times in immigration prison doesn't exactly sound like my kind of desired experience!) I agree the passport-for-rent thing isn't really a big problem if you've got law troubles, but why should I trust a dingy hole-in-the-wall cycle shop over a travel agent to keep my precious papers safe? At least a travel agent presumably understands how important the darn things are...

Joe_zop,

I'm trying to make sense of your CM post with the help of the web, some maps and a bit of the old memory. But I'm stuck:(...

Could you more or less pin-point Soi15 (Soi of which road?) and Phucome massage and club.
Am I correct in assuming that most of the action on Nimmanhemin is where it meets Huai Kaeo Road?

All those things are along Nimmanhemin, (except for the discos) with Phucome being up near Huai Kaeo Road, and, yes, most of the action seems to be up in that general area, as well as possibly further north along the road. By Soi 15 I mean Nimmanhemin Soi 15, which is toward Suthep Road -- the numbers increase on this particular road as you head south. (No rhyme nor reason to Soi numbering progression in CM, of course!) And to be completely accurate, they might actually be on Soi 14 -- it's one or the other, as I went past them several times in a car, basically being distracted by conversation, and once on foot.

Thanks joe_zop........

I will try to do 4 MP's in 4 days. And I will report.....

Found a 05-18-02 post where you are saying 'a page of my book'. Have you written one? Your command of the english language (and I suspect you are from England (or UK/Commonwealth), not TransAtlantica) and your calm and informed writing style reminds me of things I have read before .......

ph

Re: Phucome Hotel MP

According to [url]www.thaihotels.com/chiang_mai/chiang_mai_phucome.html[/url] (has a crude map) the adress is 21 Huay Keaw Road (other Google sources say: next to irrigation canal on your left just before you reach CMU-area; entrance from parking area behind the hotel).

It's a (outside BKK) monster with 576 rooms (sleep) and 66 hides for M.......

ph (will go there by rented bicycle.......)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Freeler
[i]Joe_zop,

The passport-for-rent scheme isn't exactly a favorite of mine, but it is easier to explain to the 'arresting officer' that your passport is at the rental than ... at....'
In a foreign country without passport and visa? Trouble!
[/i][/QUOTE]

This is why I've got a second passport - this is even reasonable when travelling throughout the eastern Mediterian Sea. And the one with the Visa-/embarking stamps I always keep by myself.

Philo,

THNX for that Phucome info!

You also wrote:'not TransAtlantica'.
Hmmm, that will probably leave poor Joe_zop gasping for air for most of this week...:)

Frog,

Where I'm from I'm afraid it is quite impossible to have two passports. Unless ofcourse you would have a double nationality. Too bad I have 'only' one of those...:(

Let me again repeat that I never visited Phucome, only went past it in cars and tuk-tuks, as it's rather out of the way from where I hung around -- most of my time wandering in CM was either in the old city or between there and the river area, as opposed to the west. My apartment was right near the Mae Ping, a short walk from the Night Market. I spent a small bit of time running up and down both Nimmanhemin and Huai Kaeo as my friend lives in one of the sois off the former, the Uni art center is over there and I went to a couple things there, and the Central Shopping Center is off Huai Kaeo. I originally spent some time looking at apartments over in the vicinity before deciding I didn't really like how busy the region was (though there are some fabulous mountain views!) I frankly felt the whole area was a bit of a mess, in terms of basic traffic and layout, mostly newish buildings and shiny strip malls, and was therefore the kind of thing I'd come to Thailand to get away from. I didn't spend time at all sanuking in the region, only going to a few restaurants and stores. (Half of my time was spent trying to flag down tuk-tuks and songkaews, which can get scarce in various places along Nimmanhemin. This is also an area where your negotiating skills are critical in that regard -- lots of attempts to really gouge tourists on tuk-tuk rides.) So, please, accept my disclaimer that I'm hardly an authority on action or geography in this particular region! Other parts of the city, perhaps, but not here.

Now Freeler, I can take the intended compliment, as you know I'm far from the jingoistic type, but thanks for the concern about my health nonetheless. Philo, I am in fact from the New World -- there truly are a couple of us over here who can deal with language to some extent when we take a small break from brandishing our guns and flouting the superiority of our culture :) And, yes, I've written a fair amount, from journalism to criticism to articles to creative work, including books. My last trip to LOS was in fact a writing retreat first and foremost, though I confess I spent a reasonable amount of time holding auditions for potential muses as well...

BTW, do be very careful in this region, Philo, as both of these roads can be quite busy and drivers will give your bicycle little regard or respect. Whatever you do, don't try pedaling out there during one of the rush periods or you're asking for trouble.

Frog, I only wish I could manage a second passport. That would be great, but I'm in the same boat as Freeler on that.