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Can anyone tell me if bareback sex is available in German FKK clubs? Are non-Germans treated differently in that regard? I have heard it rumored that "alles ohne" is available in some clubs. Is this true? Can anyone provide some info about this? (My conversational German is is bit rusty, but passsable!)
Japan,
Througout my first 15 or so FKK visits (all Wiago, Oase or World) I assumed bareback was totally non-existent.
Well, that changed. I had the chance to do it at least once at World and was barely able to stop myself. I had penetrated for a few thrusts and she was far from objecting. But I came to my senses (i.e. thought of my wife) and pulled out. Later I gently asked the provider about it and she said "But I don't, only with you this time." Hmm.
Another occasion, different girl, I am almost certain she was amenable to bareback after some rubbing/partial penetration accompanied by an encouraging look.
To be clear: in both cases, bareback was not offered explicitly as an "extra." I believe the practice is (correctly!) strongly discouraged and is NOT on the regular menu. Also in both cases, I had developed a little "relationship" with the girl (or whatever you can develop by being nice to them over a couple visits) and had apparently succeeded in getting her aroused.
I never again met a provider where I sensed this would be an option. So I doubt you will have much luck by asking around. You probably won't make yourself very popular with that request either.
Be careful, it's not worth it. I suspect the desire is at least partly related to self-destructive urges, as opposed to just pleasure seeking, but that's for another forum. In fact I feel a little sick to my stomach just thinking about it again as I write this.
[QUOTE=Japan]Can anyone tell me if bareback sex is available in German FKK clubs? Are non-Germans treated differently in that regard? I have heard it rumored that "alles ohne" is available in some clubs. Is this true? Can anyone provide some info about this? (My conversational German is is bit rusty, but passsable!)[/QUOTE]
You are a fool to engage in unprotected sex. The risk is just not worth it. If a girl is willing to have sex w/o protection, she has done it with hundreds of people. In a FKK that is the equivalent to having sex with hundreds of thousands of people. Thus, the risk is very high of catching something. The usual nasties include herpes (no cure) and hepatis (C is very nasty). The risk of HIV is low but not neglible.
Protect yourself and the health of the girls. Anyone who knows a girl offering unprotected sex should report her to the management. The last thing we need is an epidemic and a reason to close the clubs down. Oral w/o is already a significat risk.
Bareback is retarded!
I was offered it recently at a club and was appalled. The club is frequented by a lot of men over 60, so the girls think that provides some safety, but a lot of these men over 60 also go to thailand, where some horrible strains of Gonnorhea that cannot be treated with normal antibiotics go around rampantly.
The only club that was openly offering and advertising it is Freudenbergstrasse 38 (Next door to 39). But given that there is only one club out there offering it, those girls must be walking cess pools to be up for it. Go, get aids, and die! best of luck to you on that! Stupid fuck!
Clubs do not encourage this. After all it could ruin its reputation and its business
The club I know best is very strict on getting the girls who go there tested every few months. And on getting them treated for any infections. I guess this is one of the reasons the girls sometimes take unexpected "holidays"
The pressure from men for girls not to use a condom can be considerable. There are some men who refuse to go with any girl who uses a condom. However sometimes they get so many refusals that they leave without sessioning, and after having had rows with the girls. The management supports the girls in such cases. Such men tend to look for the inexperienced girls and occasionally persuade them.
I never ask for this myself so I don't know how hard it is to get, but I have never been offered it. It is simply not worth the risk to myself - if a girl did it with me then she presumably could be doing it with over 1000 men a year, each of whom might have had another 10 unprotected sex sessions in the same year, each of whom might have unprotected sex with other men. if you have unprotected sex with one person you could in effect be having sex with tens of thousands of others - any one of could have HIV. And how would you feel if you infected someone with HIV?
Alles ohne is a service that is offered very often by Hungarian women in Austria. You honestly have a better chance of staying healthy playing Russian roulette than with fucking a prostitute without a condom. I have rarely heard about this in FKK clubs, I have had threesomes on several occasions with ladies at FKKs and after I fucked one girl the second girl fucked me with the same condom, she could have thereby gotten some kind of pathogen from other woman's pussy, that could have come from another guy that she fucked. Women in a lot other places won't do bbbjs, I know a few FKK women who won't do it on men they don't know, especially at DV.
For those who don't know there are two strains of HIV, HIV-I and HIV-II. In the US, Canada, and Australia, physicians only test you for HIV-I. I believe this is the same in Germany. So in theory you could have HIV-II and get a negative HIV test from your doctor, you also have to take the test at least 6 months after any exposure for it to be accurate. HIV-II, is a strain found in Africa, there are some African girls working in FKKs, often Moroccan or Tunisian, be really careful doing any bareback with them.
I've been offered without two times, once at World and once at Oase. Did of course object and had quite a long discussion about it the second time with the girl. Both times it was like a way for the girl to show some kind of affection or some shit like that. "I would have sex with you without condom if you like" one said to me at Oase once and said it in a way it was the ultimate complement or something weird like that. I have never been offered it as a menu item with some price attached though.
Don't PM me or ask about which girls. I will not disclose their names.
Had a condom break once and did not notice the break until I came into her (well, she noticed it then, and I was made aware with a series of "Sheisse, sheisse...." from her). Was scared shitless for couple of weeks and don't want to repeat that crap.
Chivaz
All the talk here is about STDs as it should, but can paternity suits in German family courts force you to take a DNA test like they do here in the US?
Don't be a fool, wrap your tool!
Sorry, but I cannot believe someone was asking if he could get sex w/o condom at FKKs! I mean, are you really naive, or you have already infected with AIDS or other disease, so you are trying to infect some others!?
Now, I am scared. I know those girls are supposed to be tested, but is this really true? I heard that no one is enforcing.
Peace,
Y
If you value your own life don't have sex with a stranger without a condom.
Japan, you have been slapped around enough already. I hope you got the message.
But, fellows, there are many guys like Japan out there. A few of the girls I frequent often have all told me the same story: maybe a quarter of the guys request to do it without a condom. Certain nationalities seem to be prone to request this more often than others, according to the girls.
Bareback happened to me once, without me noticing. Sound weird? Let me explain. It was in BHH, and we went throught the standard uncovered foreplay and BBBJ. Then we put the raincoat on and went through many positions. Then she asked me if I wanted to complete in her mouth. Yes! We did true 69, and somehow she got really aroused. I had had a few too many of the special birthday cocktail that the owner served that night, and I was not thinking to clearly any more. Next thing I knew, she was riding me again, and it did not take here very long to come, too. Only when I pulled out I saw that there was no condom on me. Boy, I can tell you the shock of seeing him unprotected in this situation sobers you up in a hurry. I have not gotten drunk in an FKK ever since.
For several weeks after that encounter I was very worried that I might have caught something. Luckily this did not happen. But I do not want to bet my life on being lucky the next time again.
The girl of that night does not work at BHH any more. I don't know what happened to her. I am hoping that she did not catch something from some guy. Because if she did it with me, there sure were others, too.
Stay safe, don't go bareback
euro
Thanks very much for the info--you have collectively pretty much answered most of my questions.
I disagree as to the extent of potential absolute dangers of BBFS, and the risks of serious disease transmission relative to other openly accepted sexual activities. However, I do repect all of your opinions. Nevertheless, for those who may want an interesting an informative "alternative" read concerning this topic, please check out [url]http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/rrbprostitute.htm[/url].
I was curious as to how BBFS is currently perceived by hobbyists in Germany, since I have not traveled there for many years. Thus, I really do appreciate your candidness! In return for all of your forthcoming information, I would like to offer some data concerning my personal experiences in other countries. (This is, after all, the WORLD sex guide!)
Although I have found that the practice is certainly not the norm, I have obtained BBFS recently, with little effort (i.e., within the past year) from prostitutes in Japan, Hong Kong, Macau, Costa Rica, Thailand, the United States, and, on one occasion, even in the Netherlands! I am neither bragging nor apologizing-- just reporting the 'bare" facts. My estimate of BBFS frequency over the past two years, based on my own experience with a sample size of about 150 prostitutes, is that about 15% of girls regularly offer bareback sex. I base this estimate on the assumption that if I got BBFS from a girl with little or no effort, it is, for that girl, a regular menu item. I have found that the frequency appears to vary little among the above countries, with the exception of the Netherlands, where, in my experience, it appears to be quite rare. Also, a recent anonymous poll of several thousand hobbyists on a very popular U.S review site indicated that over 40% of American hobbyists have partaken of bareback intercourse with escorts.
I know that I will inevitably receive more slams and flames for this post--but I am still curious! Irrespective of whether or not you agree with me concerning the health and safety issues, could those of you with some experience in this regard please comment on my frequency estimate? Do you find my (admittedly uncontrolled and subjective) estimate of about 15% to be at all accurrate? Do you think it is an over-estimate or under-estimate? In particular, do you think Germany is a country where it is more frequent or less frequent than elsewhere?
I have both a theoretical as well as a personal interest in this statistic, since, if the frequency of this activity is as high as it seems, then the most frequently cited risk estimates for serious disease transmission must necessarily be incorrect.
Thanks in advance for your input!
Japan,
I would say that your estimate sounds legit, but it varies a lot country to country. As you say the Netherlands is lower, I would say that germany is lower too. My experience in China is that the sauna girls in hotels or Karaokes are really super safe, not even offering BBBJ, but in the low class local brothels and Barbershops it might be easier to get BBFS, all depends on the education level the government has managed to get through.
I have probably had close to 1000 sessions in Germany, adn this was the first time I was offered BBFS, and happy that it has not happened more. There were always rumours about Freudenbergstr. 38 being a BBFS club, but it certainly was never one of the more popular clubs, so there are a lot of guys who don't like it.
Strangely I was talking about exactly this subject the other day with some girls in Wildenrath. Nici said she had a customer at an appartment call up and want BBFS. She said it was the first time in 10 years of working, and I believe her, she doesn't lie to me (I know a lot about her and her past and stuff - and we barely session together because she isn't really my type and she knows it, so she suggest other girls for me to go with). Some of the other girls got into the discussion and they say that about once every 2 weeks there is a customer (not always the same one, just the frequency) who goes around asking each girl if she will do BBFS, and I know no girls currently in the club offer it (I know of 2 girls who have in the past, and when the management found out they were immediately asked to leave the club).
I do know that a lot of mongers like it. I have read on the Thailand sections of soe guys who even try to trick the girls into it, which I find abhorrent.
Normally I would say "It's your life" just like I do when people smoke, but given the power position you are in compared tot he girls in a lot of situations I think it is an abuse of your power as a consumer to try and coerce girls into thinking it is OK. BBFS is not a good idea, not just because of disease, but also because of pregnancy (not all working girls are using contraceptive effectively). Please don't do it, it is not worth it!
Thanks, Peter, I really appreciate your input--it seems that Deutchland is similar to the US in the general attidude towards bareback. And, based on your experience, that suggests to me that the frequency of BBFS is WAY higher than most girls are ever willing to admit! This is indeed consistent with my own experience: there are several girls in the US whose pussies I have filled with hot loads on multiple occasions, who have later publicly or privately denied EVER doing BBFS with a client, and/or even claim that they have thrown them out of their room for even asking! The reality of the situation is, some girls actually enjoy this activity as much as the guys, but very, very few are ever willing to admit it. Most assume that it would destroy their ability to attract clients if word ever got out that they do BBFS--and judging from the public reaction of this, they are correct in that assumption!
I do wish to point out, however, that I have NEVER used coerecion, and always pull out prior to completion if the girl requests. (Of course this is not a fool-proof method of birth control, but in the US at least, all the girls know that! But condoms are not a fool proof method either, certainly!)
No matter what evidence I cite, I know I will never convince most people of what I believe to be a virtually nil risk of serious disease from bareback sex with prostitutes. I am not even going to try! (Been there and done that!) But just think about this: every one of us is currently here on this planet because somebody fucked somebody else bareback (unless, of course you happen to be a test-tube baby!) Therefore, Peter, your point about pregnancy is well taken--the primary function of condoms is to prevent pregnancy. They do that usually--but not always. A secondary function is to prevent disease. They often do that too, for some, but certainly not all diseases. Yes, there is risk associated with bareback sex, as there is with covered sex, as well as BBBJ and DATY. The risk with those activites is lower. How much lower? That is controversial. But the risk is there, nonetheless, if you believe the VERY SAME statistics from the VERY SAME studies that claim a higher risk for BBFS. Many like to compare this to Russian Roulette. OK, fair enough! If I am playing with one bullet in 3000 chambers, then you (if you partake of BBBJ and DATY) are playing with one bullet in 30,000 chambers. So, your chances of contracting a fatal disease are 10% of my chances. In other words, you have to get a BBBJ 10 times as frequently as I get bareback sex, to be close to my level of risk. But if you have seen 1000 prostitutes for BBBJ, and if I've barebacked only about 50 (which is the case), then our risk level is quite similar--in fact, yours are bit higher than mine!
But my point is this: WHATEVER the risks, I do not try to prevent YOU from playing. So PLEASE, do not try to prevent ME!
1000 sessions? Wow, I believe I have had just over 200(averaging about 30 different women on each trip) in the past four years at various FKKs. I thought I was a seasoned veteran.