Seeking Arrangements

Hi,

I'm new to the SA thread, I've been collecting good intel here. When I am abroad I enjoy paying for sex in various way but here in the USA I have never tried it due to fears of LE. I don't really want to be a SD I just want to one good regular provider that I can call for sex like a pizza. However, my conclusion is that is it too expensive to do this here in the USA as weekly or bi weekly thing.

The reason is with some work I can find decent freebies and that when I have paid for sex abroad the cost was between $20 and $120 for high quality service.

Seems like there is a long process of courtship with SB and that I need to pay hundreds of dollars for anything even okay.

I guess I just to make an extra $1000 a month to get a SB, but if I had that I would spend $500 for a fun weekend in Tijuana and invest the rest.

I swear the only thing I don't like about the good ol USA is that paying for sex here is sooo expensive and illegal compared almost everywhere else.

Can we start our own lobbying group, please!

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2485098]Steve, I have gone back and read your earlier posts and experiences from Jan / Feb. I think what would be helpful is how you screen SBs on the SA website. Now it might be hard to generalize what are the positive profiles. It seems like some attractive girls are super chill and the first impression is they want to hang out and have a good time. Others seem more sexually forward implying they are ready to get down. Perhaps both of these profiles are worth a response.

I would think it would be easier to look for negatives. Over the top requirements for long-term allowances, luxury shopping and international travel seem like a no-go. Phrases like "I know what I am worth" seem like a surefire GPS alert. The word "platonic' seems like a non-starter, but some guys on other boards seem to think that's just for public consumption and privately everyone knows what SA is all about. I'm not sure I would spend time responding to this type of profile. I'm sure there are other red flags.

Do you recommend prioritizing girls who are new to the site? Conversely, do you avoid girls who mention they have had several great SD relationships? Do you prefer a girl who has a bikini photo? Or do you prefer a more modest girl? I would think a girl with just head shots and a description like "curvy" or "a few extra pounds" would be problematic.

I'm not trying to answer my question. I am interested in Steve and other's take on initial screening.[/QUOTE]I guess first I sorta read part of what you said like you are responding to girls that reach out to you. Maybe you weren't saying that, but I NEVER do this. (Ok one in fifty). Girls who reach out are usually hookers or desperate or both. You must Seek.

I have a type. 90% of girls are not my type. So that's easy to screen. But once I pick someone based on looks I cast a wide net. I enjoy the cat and mouse so I contact virtually every girl that falls within my taste. It's a numbers game for sure.

You are right to avoid platonic or online only. I've tried dragging a few into the pond and no dice. Friend with Benefits tag is clearly DTF but I went back and looked and Krystal my ATF did not have it. So don't let it screen out some diamonds.

Definitely stay away from the "it's all about me" girls. Who the fuck contacts them?

Prior SDs is OK tho most girls won't mention it. And just know that curvy means different things in different geographies. In the US it means fat. In South America it means slim with big tits. So don't rule out curvy girls outside the US.

Yes I always scan for new girls. I've gone thru the entire roster for my area so new girls get special attention. I use the Hide function to take girls I don't want out of the list so I am always pruned back to reasonable candidates.

Couple other thoughts. Usually when a girl comes on strong with sexy vibe she is a catfish. Case in point just last night this girl was off Tinder but same thing. Had a nice chat for an hour or so. Then Very let's get down. My roommate is gone. And shortly thereafter "oh can you do verification so I know you are safe?" With link to phishing site. Didn't click of course. She was very persistent about how it's safe and she's done it and all. Finally ghosted her.

That said Layla my current SB was super sexual in her profile. I was convinced she was a catfish. Smelled scam even as we were meeting up! And it turned out fine. Point is you need to follow all the leads just be careful to be eyes wide open.

Oh and don’t hesitate to be persistent. I’ve had a couple girls I’ve gone out with where they ignored my opener. But I followed up and we engaged. Even had one girl shoot me down three months back and the we ended up doing a meetup on my second assault. I think they just get inundated and of course circumstances change over a period of months.

I don't know how some of the posters here can be so confident of the greater supposed legal protections in Latin America versus the United States, in light of the Cuba Dave case.

[URL]https://www.launchknowledge.com/the-cuba-dave-story-interview-2018/[/URL]

Of course what Cuba Dave did was different than what a typical sex tourist, including a Sugar Daddy, does. But that is no different than the distinction that many of us make regarding how different aspects of the USA Commercial sex scene works.

Besides the usual screens, such as ethnicity, body type, height, age, etc. , here are the additional ways that I screened with a pretty high degree of success:

(1) I looked for stories that seemed genuine. Some examples include the girl that wanted to go to medical school, but discovered the tech field and is now working for a startup and therefore her current salary is not high. Another example is the person that just got divorced and is looking for work, but in the meantime she needs some affection and some financial help. Another example is the gal that just graduated from college and could not find a job and moved back home with her parents and just wanted to go out and have fun. Stuff like this. These stories are rare because gals usually don't post this kind of stuff, so it meant that I had to read about a hundred profiles before I would come across one of these kinds of stories. But when I did find one, I would invest a lot of time into trying to meet them. For example, I would study their profile carefully and then use some of that stuff as topics of convo during our initial exchange. (A derivative of this screen is that I also looked for gals that had unique interests, such as going to art exhibits and movie festivals.).

(2) I sometimes specifically looked for highly educated girls, ones with graduate degrees. I'm sort of smart, so I can chat up educated girls pretty okay. While every girl desires respect, the educated girls in particular especially wanted to be respected, especially for their smarts, and that was something that I was able to pull off. "Dating" these girls was okay fun for me, because I enjoy a good convo sometimes. In fact, I think almost all of these girls wanted to keep in touch with me after our arrangement ended. I'm still friends with one of them.

(3) I always looked for girls that were VERY new to SA. They are not jaded yet. I would try to arrange a meet-and-greet with them ASAP. When a new girl joins the site, they might get about a dozen meeting requests in the first few days, and so my odds are pretty good at this point. After I meet them, many of these girls would tell me something like, "I have met 3 guys on this site so far, and I like you the most. " For the ones that have been on SA for several months or over a year, the odds that I can get a meeting with them are low, and at that point, they are taking a business like approach to finding an SD.

This doesn't mean that I ignored girls outside of the screens above.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2485214]Besides the usual screens, such as ethnicity, body type, height, age, etc. , here are the additional ways that I screened with a pretty high degree of success:

This doesn't mean that I ignored girls outside of the screens above.[/QUOTE]For me.

(4) Any girl that specifies "wanting to e spoiled" or "wanting to enjoy the finer things in life" is OFF my list. For me it shows that they have the wrong expectation of the SB-SD agreement. I know that for me as a SD I'm not searching in the oe of finding a girl just so I can have the fun of throwing money at them. That happens for the right girl with a sensible performance based attitude.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2485198]I don't know how some of the posters here can be so confident of the greater supposed legal protections in Latin America versus the United States, in light of the Cuba Dave case.
[/QUOTE]I actually thought about why this topic pisses so many people off, and I realize that with any stressful situation the first and second reactions like with grief are denial and then anger. When a guy comes in and talks about the risk and breaks through the denial like I did, the anger, which I have told you all has happened before, should be expected.

You have two choices mongering in the USA: you can accept that if you pay for sex that you are supporting human trafficking as law enforcement says or you can think like I do LE is fucking crazy and make adjustments based on that fact.

You are programmed with all you watch to think LE is filled with heroes and good guys instead of just thinking about them as the people they are. What woke me up to this was one police officer who arrested me and was fired the next day because basically he was an idiot and everyone wanted to know what I did wrong. What actually happened is the police officer did not know the law. When I said what I was stopped for, the response was that I probably said something wrong as if that was something that I should be arrested for. Here were people who knew me and had known me for decades throwing the first amendment in the trash can just so they could cling to the notion that what happened to me would not happen to them. This guy was making less than a fucking Uber Eats driver, but I was amazed that person after person thought he could do no wrong.

Even if you get to the fact that maybe this cop was a bad actor, and he had a terrible history of abuses, there is the one bad apple crap which is another assumption. It was not one bad cop. It turned out this whole small town was rotten to the core. They used their part of an Interstate to legally mug drivers.

If you say that you are comfortable with the risk, you are just as crazy as LE is. That denial may make you feel better in the moment, but it is not helpful. Instead of thinking LE would never come after you, what is useful is to learn about how they would and take action to prevent that from happening.

When I hear people say that I didn't understand the Kraft case or I am a typical monger or in your case, "You do not know what you are talking about with Latin America, look at Cuba", that is just showing me the denial. I didn't mention Cuba with regards to sugar babies, and Cuba is a far different animal with regards to prostitution than other Latin countries.

Now, it is different with Covid, but in Mexico prior to Covid, I had a hotel concierge in Mexico City at an upscale hotel bring a hooker to my hotel door. But again, you have been trained to think that Mexico is dangerous and the USA is safe. If you get out of the denial and realistically readjust your benefit: risk ratios, then you may think and act differently as I did. Maybe you need to fear Mexico less and American LE more. I have read at least four mongers say something to the effect that getting a Mexican SB is like shooting fish in a barrel, and I can tell you it is.

In some ways, I do not even want to talk about because it may not benefit me. When I went to Rio in 2004, the amount of Americans there was suffocating, and the prices were higher than in other places. Also, I kind of like mongering to be low key, and it was anything but there. Still, it was kind of cool seeing 25 year old African Americans and 50 something white Americans in a cafe talking strategy on how to score Brazilian pussy something I doubt I would have seen in the USA. Those were the help disco days.

There have been thousands if not tens of thousands of johns in the USA arrested in stings. Seeking has made adjustments to keep from being targeted, and LE has left them alone for now, but things could continue to change.

I loved the world where LE looked at prostitution as a victim less crime, but that world is gone. I had a cop tell me he didn't care about arresting johns for prostitution and was skeptical anyone was being trafficked but he eventually found women who were trafficked, and those few women being trafficked was the excuse for this massive sea change in attitude.

As far as what to do, use a VPN when on this site and other mongering sites. Have two phones where one cannot be directly traced to you. Screen women for criminal backgrounds and stay away from those who have them as they might cut deals with LE to turn you in.

I always thought as long as you had a woman saying you are a good guy you could not get into trouble, but with Kraft, LE put in a camera in the studio. I would use that knowledge to my advantage. Give money in an envelope then instead of cash. Emphasize that you are giving a gift versus paying a wage and steer clear of women who are asking how much. Emphasize to women that their taking a gift after sex is legal but expecting payment for a service is illegal and say that is to their benefit so they do not get arrested for prostitution. Do as much as you can to make your relationship look BF / GF or even mistress like than ho and john.

I did not say LE is coming after mongers. I am just repeating what they said. When LE says they are coming after men paying for sex, it is time to be paranoid not in denial.

Guess I should probably say something about my experience with Seeking in CDMX. Just got back home from 2 weeks there. I am a candidate in the Moderna vaccine trials and I'm less than 30 years old so I decided that I was done being stuck at home in the US and wanted to venture out. I know passable Spanish and I've always wanted to visit Mexico (outside of Tijuana), and wanted a city relatively close to home, so CDMX was the obvious choice.

One thing to know, which I assume people here already know, is that SA is not just meeting escorts online. It is a lot of work. Seriously, it felt like most of my time not working was spent just herding cats on SA. But the payoff is a GFE that is off-the-charts value if you choose to view it as such. As has been previously mentioned, ideally you would find a girl that is actually in to you, and her need for money and your desire for physical intimacy seals the deal. I'll confess, I am too much of a softy and I ended up not being able to navigate that boundary, as I will detail later on.

Generally speaking prices ranged from 1500 – 4000. I am not here to litigate about paying too much / inflating prices / blah blah blah. I have limited amount of time and close the deal before these girls flake. And rest assured, they'll flake even if you do agree on an arrangement. I don't know if it's my young age or profile, but I received maybe a 20% response rate. My approach was if it there was a hook on their profile I generally referenced it in my intro message, but most profiles are low effort so I opened with a low effort intro (Como estas? I'm visiting Mexico for two weeks).

Anyway here's the rundown.

Week 1.

Sunday – Had been speaking to a cute 20 year old Bartender who had recently been laid off from her airport job. We met and she was nice and talkative. Most museums are still closed due to Covid, but Palacio de Bellas Artes was open so we checked out some cool murals by Diego Rivera and others. Afterwards got some delicious churros off of the central square. Really building some vibes here so we grab a Uber back to my Roma Norte Airbnb.

There we chat over beers and things get hot and heavy. A vigorous and passionate lovemaking session ensues. We talk a bit more, share memes, she teaches me Mexican slang (seriously wacky stuff). And then off she goes with 1500 MXN (70 USD). For that price, you'the be lucky to get a half-hearted quickie from an HK girl on her third dude of the night. I got the better part of 4 hours of guided tour through a cool city – and I fucked the tour guide later!

Monday (Labor Day) – organized to meet a 19 year old at my apartment. Beware of any girls that don't show their body in their photos. No matter how alluring their face may look, ask to see full body pics before setting up the meet. Turned out she was hiding quite a muffin top, and her face was also filtered to hell. Paid her 1000 out of 1500 planned just to get her to bounce ASAP.

Then quickly rang up a 21 year old student who was game to come over. Established some chemistry over coffee and then headed back to the apartment. There we continued to chat and then we moved in. It was a nice session (side note – really getting to brush up on my oral skills, which the girls seem to legitimately enjoy) even though she didn't really want to kiss which brought it down a peg. Also BTW, I used condoms throughout the entire trip, usually at the girls request. Otherwise, a very nice session, paid 2000 MXN (95 USD).

Tuesday – this girl messaged me a few days back and she seemed eager. She was ok, pictures were more or less accurate but maybe a bit fuller in person. Not much to say, as she seemed pretty semi-professional. Her profile was at least a year and a half old, and her making the first move is a pretty sure sign. It wasn't a bad session by "hooker" standards but not what I was shooting for. 2000 + Uber (99 USD).

Wednesday – should mention that at this point I was fighting against a very unexpected an nefarious hemorrhoid issue. I'm too young for this shit. Anyways, I had been in touch with a very different type of profile. Her pictures and Insta painted a picture of a life of significant privilege. In her profile she stressed no one older than 35, and she laughed off my original offer of 2000, saying nothing less than 4000 (189 USD). I was intrigued at the idea of hooking up with a member of the Mexican upper-middle class so I agreed. The day of, my health situation was just not allowing for it, and unfortunately I canceled in a manner that was graceless enough to earn a block from her. And I guess subconsciously I wasn't thrilled at the idea of ponying up close to $200 + overpriced drinks on a Wednesday evening.

Thursday and Friday – chilled and relaxed and let my be-hole rest. As a side note, I've been eating road-side tacos and tortas without any stomach issues. Eating like a king (or at least a lesser baron) for less than $5 a day.

Saturday – Met a 21 year old university chick for lunch and drinks. She was really cute and fun and flirty, but some of these girls. Man. Don't really have their head screwed on straight. We were about to get down to business after she was grinding on me during an impromptu salsa lesson, when she gets a call from her friend in need of being rescued from her boyfriend. It did seem authentic. And then she gets in this weird act of grinding heavily on my hand and moaning, then crying about how she was a bad friend because she was there with me, going to the door to leave, grinding on me again saying she was horny, back to the bed, refusing to kiss because she knew that would get her too hot and cause her to abandon her friend, then asking me if I had ever paid for sex before. It was all very confusing for me and evidently her as well, she was clearly ambivalent about the p4 p situation. Gave her 1000 MXN (47 USD) and she said she'd be open to meet later in the week for a non-paid night out (which I didn't really pursue). Probably the one payout that looking back I actually regret, but I had a somewhat enjoyable time.

Week 2.

Sunday, part 1 – met a nice, cute 19 year old at my apartment in the morning. Very shy, and very starfish but she seemed to enjoy my oral. The sex was mediocre but she was tight and I enjoyed myself. 1500 MXN (70 USD) for a nice morning quickie, well spent I thought.

I then moved Airbnb's from Roma Norte to Condesa, which I liked a lot better. Hipster / hippie / yuppie, tons of places to walk around and check out, beautiful park right in the middle, and seemed safer than Roma. Got a rather European-vibe from the area, highly recommended.

Sunday, part 2 – intro Hippie Chick. The one thing is, it's really easy to recognize a quality profile on SA when you see one. Clear effort into both sections of her profile, pictures that showed her physical beauty as well as a personality. She was 100% my type physically so I shot her a message. She opened with 4000, and she accepted by counter of 3000 MXN (142 USD). We met at the Museo Tamayo en Chapultapec. She was an absolute cutie, and, as I learned, smart, funny, educated, cultured, and actually the daughter of the ex-mayor of CDMX. She comes from a pretty wealthy and well-connected family. Had a really good time, when back to the apartment and also had a really good time but I did not manage to finish – this girl clearly fucked with my head a bit.

Monday – rest.

Tuesday – met probably the most beautiful woman I'll ever have sex with, but the thing is she had a dick haha. She is a trans model, originally Venezuelan but now living in CDMX. I mean, drop dead gorgeous, once you're with a girl like that you realize that they are on another level. She was headlining publications and PRIDE marches and here I had here in my apartment. Definitely no GFE (always checking her phone for a dinner she was about to go to) but very serviceable in the sack. Once again my oral skills were appreciated and we were both satisfied. Would not repeat, but holy shit, just being in the same room with her was an experience.

Wednesday – got brutally ghosted by a girl I was looking forward to meeting. Just stopped responding to texts like a few hours before meeting. Shrug.

Thursday – Met up with the Bartender from last week. Just had a bite of dinner, walked around Condesa, and headed back to the apartment. Another very nice round, followed by a nice chat about life and relationships. 1500 just as last time.

Friday – was originally planning to meet Hippie Chick again, but scheduling didn't work out so we planned for tomorrow (Saturday).

Saturday – met with Hippie Chick and rolled on M. My first time doing it so I was excited. It's typically more used in more of a party situation, but nothing like that during Covid. So we just chilled in the Airbnb, listened to music, gave / received massages. We ended up not having sex, only cuddling a bit. She received a call from a friend visiting from out of state (second time I've heard "I'm such a bad friend by being here with you right now") so she bounced. It was a strange encounter, and I've been thinking about it a lot. She was much more secure in the arrangement than I was; I was clearly the ambivalent one this time around. That morning I had sent her a text saying that if I was ingesting substances that would open me up emotionally, then I didn't want there to be money involved. I ended up giving her 1000 for the M + 1000 for whatever else we did. She sensed that I had mixed feelings about it, and she offered to give me back 500 and I refused (even though she was the one who asked for a "propina" Pretty confusing experience. I realized that it was probably better that we didn't force anything that night, it just didn't feel right. And I plan on coming back to CDMX again; I feel like just knowing her as a friend would be better and more fun than maintaining a SD / SB relationship. All in all, the thing I regret was not clearly removing the P4 P elements before the trip, it should have just been platonic roll from the get-go, and it would have been much cleaner and funner. Left on good terms, and will keep in touch.

Decided to poke around Tinder for a bit and see what I could scare up. Yikes. 90% ugly or fat or both. The remaining 10% are scams and only fans and subscribe to see my pussy girls. Basically any girl that is mildly attractive wants money for doing essentially nothing.

Beyond disappointing. Totally sucks ass!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2485522]Decided to poke around Tinder for a bit and see what I could scare up. Yikes. 90% ugly or fat or both. The remaining 10% are scams and only fans and subscribe to see my pussy girls. Basically any girl that is mildly attractive wants money for doing essentially nothing.

Beyond disappointing. Totally sucks ass![/QUOTE]An SB once told me that the reason she was on SA is because she realized that she was fucking guys for free on Tinder when she could be fucking guys for money on SA. She said it was like an epiphany for her.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2485531]An SB once told me that the reason she was on SA is because she realized that she was fucking guys for free on Tinder when she could be fucking guys for money on SA. She said it was like an epiphany for her.[/QUOTE]Yep, they have told me the same. This why I love the girls in Russia / Mexico, so much better experience.

You keep saying or at least implying that I like USA Cops.

I don't.

But you keep saying things that aren't supported by an actual analysis of data.

There have not been tens of thousands of Johns arrested in sting operations.

Some of us actually study arrests and techniques.

It seems that your solution when you dislike USA Cops, or read some propaganda that you disagree with, is to abandon the USA Entirely.

That is certainly what the USA Cops want.

Most of us recognize that non-USA Sex workers provide a better value than those in the USA But most USA Johns earn far more than foreign workers when doing the same jobs in the USA So it has never been clear to me why the same principle would not be true for USA Sex workers.

For those of us who do this in the USA, real risk / reward calculations are important, which is why I object to your generalizations and numbers that aren't supported by an analysis of actual data. And massage parlors were never safe, by the way. Even before the Kraft case, if you were in there when a cop was wearing a wire in another room and gave the signal for the backup to arrive after she said the "wrong thing", the cops went around and opened doors trying to find illegal activities in process.

But Seeking Arrangement is one on one private activity that would seem to fall outside of all known arrests and citations. Those of us into seeing independent escorts who screen, and / or Seeking ladies, keep a close watch to see if L. E. Ever crosses boundaries it never has before. I don't think that will ever happen.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2485503]I actually thought about why this topic pisses so many people off, and I realize that with any stressful situation the first and second reactions like with grief are denial and then anger. When a guy comes in and talks about the risk and breaks through the denial like I did, the anger, which I have told you all has happened before, should be expected.

You have two choices mongering in the USA: you can accept that if you pay for sex that you are supporting human trafficking as law enforcement says or you can think like I do LE is fucking crazy and make adjustments based on that fact.

You are programmed with all you watch to think LE is filled with heroes and good guys instead of just thinking about them as the people they are. What woke me up to this was one police officer who arrested me and was fired the next day because basically he was an idiot and everyone wanted to know what I did wrong. What actually happened is the police officer did not know the law. When I said what I was stopped for, the response was that I probably said something wrong as if that was something that I should be arrested for. Here were people who knew me and had known me for decades throwing the first amendment in the trash can just so they could cling to the notion that what happened to me would not happen to them..[/QUOTE]

Great review. Hoping to get down there in Oct.

[QUOTE=Rextor;2485510]Week 2.

Sunday, part 1 met a nice, cute 19 year old at my apartment in the morning. Very shy, and very starfish but she seemed to enjoy my oral. The sex was mediocre but she was tight and I enjoyed myself. 1500 MXN (70 USD) for a nice morning quickie, well spent I thought.

I then moved Airbnb's from Roma Norte to Condesa, which I liked a lot better. Hipster / hippie / yuppie, tons of places to walk around and check out, beautiful park right in the middle, and seemed safer than Roma. Got a rather European-vibe from the area, highly recommended.

Sunday, part 2 intro Hippie Chick. The one thing is, it's really easy to recognize a quality profile on SA when you see one. Clear effort into both sections of her profile, pictures that showed her physical beauty as well as a personality. She was 100% my type physically so I shot her a message. She opened with 4000, and she accepted by counter of 3000 MXN (142 USD). We met at the Museo Tamayo en Chapultapec. She was an absolute cutie, and, as I learned, smart, funny, educated, cultured, and actually the daughter of the ex-mayor of CDMX. She comes from a pretty wealthy and well-connected family. Had a really good time, when back to the apartment and also had a really good time but I did not manage to finish this girl clearly fucked with my head a bit..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BrizLad;2485474]For me.

(4) Any girl that specifies "wanting to e spoiled" or "wanting to enjoy the finer things in life" is OFF my list. For me it shows that they have the wrong expectation of the SB-SD agreement. I know that for me as a SD I'm not searching in the oe of finding a girl just so I can have the fun of throwing money at them. That happens for the right girl with a sensible performance based attitude.[/QUOTE]I totally avoid those profiles too. This is why SA is a lot of work. Sometimes, I will go through a hundred profiles until I find one that I like.

[QUOTE=Rextor;2485510]Week 2.

Tuesday met probably the most beautiful woman I'll ever have sex with, but the thing is she had a dick haha. She is a trans model, originally Venezuelan but now living in CDMX. I mean, drop dead gorgeous, once you're with a girl like that you realize that they are on another level. She was headlining publications and PRIDE marches and here I had here in my apartment. Definitely no GFE (always checking her phone for a dinner she was about to go to) but very serviceable in the sack. Once again my oral skills were appreciated and we were both satisfied. Would not repeat, but holy shit, just being in the same room with her was an experience.

[/QUOTE]Your two weeks in CDMX was fucking EPIC! As I was reading about your second week, I almost choked on my drink when I read about your Tuesday. I'm still like, LOLWUT! Thanks for sharing your adventures, man. I'm sure everyone on here benefited from it, learned something, and enjoyed reading it.