FKK Artemis - Berlin

[QUOTE=Pistons;1903423]The girls at artemis have a loose agreement among themselves to stick to the old prices. Lets hope it last. I am sure they have to see it as keeping up the reputation of their club as well.[/QUOTE]I mean they are already charging 10 euro extras per 30 min than any other clubs in Germany.

Either way, we can just go to other clubs if they begin to change something drastically like price they already are charging more than other clubs.

Current prices are good enough and I hope girls have enough brain to realize that they already are charging more than other clubs and offering same or worst service and LU are same or worst than other clubs in Germany.

[QUOTE=MrHo;1903466]I mean they are already charging 10 euro extras per 30 min than any other clubs in Germany.

Either way, we can just go to other clubs if they begin to change something drastically like price they already are charging more than other clubs.

Current prices are good enough and I hope girls have enough brain to realize that they already are charging more than other clubs and offering same or worst service and LU are same or worst than other clubs in Germany.[/QUOTE]I completely agree. I do understand the risk of inflation set out by BackpackBrian. But I think it is unlikely to happen. Whilst Artemis has a monopoly in Berlin (ergo risk of inflation due to closed market) the girls know that a high percentage of the clientele are foreign tourists who will simply fly to other destinations all over Germany to engage their needs. The Club would only be attractive then to locals, and given the weakness of the LU, the recent raid and the high entry cost (80 being the highest I've paid in any German FKK) increasing the prices to $300-400 would just kill the club off. The girls are not stupid. They know what the market will stand. The fixed pricing is of course not possible to enforce post raid as it was one of the reasons given for the raid in the first place. That the girls are no more than employees and not independent if they are restricted on price and services. So the notion of sticking with the fixed rate is not viable. Albeit that the girls may, amongst themselves, agree it. I actually wonder if there may be a greater risk of this going the other way. And for the less attractive girls to now feel free to offer much cheaper sessions. That would be entirely fair of course. That the price reflects demand. The prettiest sexiest girls being able to charge higher than 60/30 as they can get it and the less glamorous ladies having to offer discounts to attract trade. Now that really would be an open market!

Different price for different girls are not the way. Not in europe at least as our mentality is of socialism. Besides it could lead to too many other variations like Dutedarc described in another thread here. If they start with that, then I'm off. The top Artemis girls are real top notch. Top 5 or so. But I hardly ever see all of them at the same time. And options are fading and ageing.

It was better last year with Jayda from Stuttgart and a few others, but have anyone seen her lately?

[QUOTE=DrJekyll;1902692]Artemis again after staying away for half a year. It was a Tuesday night, I arrived at about seven and the choice of girls was underwhelming. Just as last time I couldn't find any of my favorites.[/QUOTE]One more thing, about those absent favourites. Even though I actually did manage to find one of them later that night (see my report below), there were a couple of girls that I had really hoped to meet: Does anybody know if Romanian Antonia (petite friendly girl, natural tits and wonderful ass) and / or Spanish Alessandra (petite friendly girl, natural tits and wonderful ass) are still working at Artemis? I hope so, I really miss them, especially Antonia. Any intel on them would be much appreciated!

[QUOTE=PayForIt;1903644]I completely agree. I do understand the risk of inflation set out by BackpackBrian. But I think it is unlikely to happen. Whilst Artemis has a monopoly in Berlin (ergo risk of inflation due to closed market) the girls know that a high percentage of the clientele are foreign tourists who will simply fly to other destinations all over Germany to engage their needs. The Club would only be attractive then to locals, and given the weakness of the LU, the recent raid and the high entry cost (80 being the highest I've paid in any German FKK) increasing the prices to $300-400 would just kill the club off. The girls are not stupid. They know what the market will stand. The fixed pricing is of course not possible to enforce post raid as it was one of the reasons given for the raid in the first place. That the girls are no more than employees and not independent if they are restricted on price and services. So the notion of sticking with the fixed rate is not viable. Albeit that the girls may, amongst themselves, agree it. I actually wonder if there may be a greater risk of this going the other way. And for the less attractive girls to now feel free to offer much cheaper sessions. That would be entirely fair of course. That the price reflects demand. The prettiest sexiest girls being able to charge higher than 60/30 as they can get it and the less glamorous ladies having to offer discounts to attract trade. Now that really would be an open market![/QUOTE]I mean if girls begin to abuse this already premium entrance price and also premium 10 euro plus fee per 30 min session comparison to other FKK and begin up sell more and provide bogus service even you agree to up sell price, then they will lose big chunk of business as we simply go to other FKK in Germany where there are few FKK within close range of the city.

Also up sell is annoying and even they charge more to provide empty promise to the money they charge, then pro mongers will just go to Globe Zurich where the service is guaranteed by the club for charging higher price than FKK in Germany, this is very Switzerland, you pay more, but service is guaranteed. In German FKK, up sell by girls often end up in bogus empty promise.

I have bought up sell before and I had best experience sometimes, so if girls can guarantee they will deliver I do not mind mild upsell, but this is where difficulty begin to kicks in.

In the end, it is human related service business so we just got to know what we are doing and also we just got to be lucky.

Artemis just need to freshen up LU with more younger girls. Up sell at Artemis is not that bad though.

What I hear from other mongers is that, well, it won't happen, it won't go up that high ( 100/30 min) or if it does Artemis mongers will just go to other clubs! What I think is easily overlooked is with an open market price creep starts relatively slowly, similar to raising taxes (ex. Lets just raise the taxes a little bit! So next month we might have only a 5-10 Euro increase for 30 min. And then in 1 year it will be another 5-10 Euro. And if you think it will only be at Artemis you are surely wrong. It will happen at all FKK's. Once the word gets out, which would be within hours, all clubs will increase their prices. All clubs already coordinate how much to charge, that's why all clubs cost approximately $50, with Artemis being the exception, charging 60. Before you take your next trip in two years you be looking at a standard 115 Euro /30 session standard cost. Maybe I'm venting here for nothing! Just want to make sure the prices stay at the point where I can keep doing this for a very long time and not spend a small fortune doing it.

I have read the second post and I can't continue reading.

I wonder the reason men forgot sex market and sex service were and are paid on a time unit. Within a time unit, customers can ask everything, and I mean everything, to a prostitute. If a prostitute can't or doesn't fulfill the ordered service, then she returns the money as soon as possible. I say, prostitutes in the past USSR were usually paid at the end of the service, when customers were happy of her service, and this rule was a warranty of satisfaction and professionalism. I say, I had some experiences of this kind. And I know men who are getting this kind of service by Slavic prostitutes in Western countries. Therefore, it is still possible to get an incredible service at a honest price even nowadays!

Instead, when prostitutes talk about the time and irrespective of customers' satisfaction, then this means just one result: a scam! It is not necessary any experience to understand this behavior, since this rule is common in any kind of business in any kind of place in the world!

Moreover, if you still think prostitutes are the weakest link in the sex market, then you shouldn't pretend to ignore prostitutes buy any kind of narcotics and they re-sell them to their customers, and they search and promote new girls to transform in prostitutes. At the end, women exploit other women and they make them drug addicted!

[QUOTE=FiddyCent;1903246]Hey PayForIt.

You should try and negotiate a pay per minute service. If a girl cheats you out or wants to finish early, just say you were only in here for 25 minutes so 50 Euros. The Anal pay per minute rate would be higher, of course. For a long session, the girl will make 220 Euros per hour, same as before, but if she tries to cheat you, then pay her 3. 67 Euros per minute up to a maximum of 220 Euros. Fair is fair. LOL.

FiddyCent.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DrJekyll;1903699]Does anybody know if Romanian Antonia (petite friendly girl, natural tits and wonderful ass) and / or Spanish Alessandra (petite friendly girl, natural tits and wonderful ass) are still working at Artemis?[/QUOTE]After a longer period of absence, Antonia returned in early summer.

Backpackbrain: hardly. The prices won't get that high. The German market is so saturated above and below this price range that rising prices are very difficult. Don't forget that you don't just only have other FKKs to think about, but all other sorts of competitions too. Like red light districts 25 e a session, AO clubs, strip clubs etc etc. And then there is the abroad competition. Now 60 e I can probably see it rise to in western Germany, but there there are so many clubs, and smaller FKK's too, so you have a hard drag downwards. The smaller FKK's not being mentioned here are sometimes much preferred among the local Germans. Just heard from one guy that he normally prefers Feigenblatt to any of the larger Hessen clubs and its cheaper. The larger FKK's are much more tourist destinations, and the market is global. Nobody would go to Germany if the price of a session was 80e+ for 30 minutes. At least I wouldnt.

Unemployment is high in europe, and globally unemployment is rising. What do you think will happen to the sheer number of prostitutes in 10 years globally? I can even see prices in Asia falling drastically again after the recent years ludicrous price hikes in some markets over there. And china could always open more up to prostitution too in a political decission change...

Or consider the sharing economy moving onto prostitution like this on a more global scale:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/04/12/china-people-for-rent-startup-app-prostitution-social-networking-sex/

Most mongers I know that goes to Asia nowadays only use social networking. Even facebook is used to for hookups there at some locations. Wechat though makes whole china into a brothel now prostitution is more widely accepted in Asia than in the west, but there is a shift in the west towards accepting more and more prostitution also. In a generation I think we will be more like Asia. But it depends on the jobs market too perhaps. And religion. Islam could pose a threat. Like Christianity does in some countries like Italy, USA and Philippines but with the way the world is heading, politicians probably have to make a decision. More [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] like in India or some Muslim countries on the streets, or making prostitution legal. The economy and the introvert society does that.

[QUOTE=Pistons;1904244]Unemployment is high in europe, and globally unemployment is rising. What do you think will happen to the sheer number of prostitutes in 10 years globally? I can even see prices in asia falling drastically again after the recent years ludicrous price hikes in some markets over there. And china could allways open more up to prostitution too in a political decission change.

Or consider the sharing economy moving onto prostitution like this on a more global scale[/QUOTE]I love this economy crisis, for me the worst economy get, better my mongering experience, so it serve me just fine.

[QUOTE=AColonizer;1904154]Within a time unit, customers can ask everything, and I mean everything, to a prostitute. If a prostitute can't or doesn't fulfill the ordered service, then she returns the money as soon as possible. [/QUOTE]Keep on dreaming.

HB.

Hmm being a capitalist sometimes when it suits. It's a bit like being half pregnant, LOL. Ain't no such thing, either you are a free market guy, or you are not.

My sense is, when it comes to FKKs, most guys here are not pro free market.

Although, laissez faire capitalism simply implies free of government regulation. So, you can argue the club has the freedom to set their rules and girls and customers can take it or leave it. This is not a government imposed pricing. Of course, if the girls (and punters) don't agree, they can always go private where everything can be negotiated one on one.

But I agree with others that pricing at this time has little risk of going up, in this deflationary world we are living in at the moment. I again think some girls looked depressed due to lack of business, and if it was possible, they might give 35/40 min for the 50 euro at the hessen clubs (perhaps they already do this at Artemis, given the new pricing models) - why not? They are better off making some money, as opposed to sitting on their butt, or doing endless trips up and down the stairs with not much to show for the walking.

[QUOTE=BackpackBrian;1903256]

NOW I'm all in favor of an open market, I'm a capitalist here in the USA, but I do like the system in Germany with fixed prices for FS, keep the socialist sex trade in Germany the way it is and I'm good to fly over there 2-3 times a year.[/QUOTE]

Free market hardly exist anywhere. Free market was and always will be a rhetorical lie imposed by capitalists. Free market means perfect competition, and that always brings margins down towards zero. So free market is never existent in 99.99% of the cases. Google Adwords is the closest thing we have to a free market except for the fact that they actually do have a minimum price at 20 cent, sex advertisements being illegal and all sorts of algorithms being involved. But only between the actual advertisers it appears as a free market. In reality its fascist. Then Google on the other side has monopoly. Just like a communistic state.

[QUOTE=Pistons;1904548]Free market hardly exist anywhere. Free market was and allways will be a rethorical lie imposed by capitalists. Free market means perfect competition, and that allways brings margins down towards zero. So free market is never existant in 99.99% of the cases. Google Adwords is the closest thing we have to a free market except for the fact that they actually do have a minimum price at 20 cent, sex adverticements being illegal and all sorts of algorithms being involved. But only between the actual advertisers it appears as a free market. In reality its facist. Then Google on the other side has monopoly. Just like a communistic state...[/QUOTE]Well it is google that made me find out about FKK, so I got no problem with their monopoly LOL.

Up sell in Artemis is not that bad, those who like up sell, then go to Palace because that is where the war zone is for up sell LOL.

7 times I went to Artemis after June, I never faced up sell.

[QUOTE=BackpackBrian;1902555]I'm just wondering if anyone has experience with girls who try and up sell on DFK'ing, telling you it's $50 extra. You then agree, then after you finish and get her money you only hand her $50? I'm sure she will scream and yell. What happens if you just explain to her that she didn't provide any services that cost extra (ex. CIM, anal, etc.) and you thought DFK was included? Has anyone tried this tactic on the WG's? Does it work? Will you get kicked out of the club, beat up by her pimp, etc.[/QUOTE]This tactic is dishonest and inappropriate. The solution is quite simple. You pay for what you agree to pay and you don't agree to anything that you aren't willing to pay for.

If she says that she will DFK you for an extra 50 and you agree, then you pay. If she says nothing and you DFK, and she later demands extra, then you pay nothing. If she refuses to DFK, this is her right and of course, you don't pay extra for DFK that you did not receive in this case.

Me, I never pay for DFK. A girl simply provides DFK or does not. If she provides me with DFK however, I am more likely to extend and / or repeat with her. So, in this way, my girls are incentivized to DFK (though not all may make this connection).

The standard club prices are simply the prices one pays when no other verbal agreement has been reached.