Manila

[QUOTE=Wicked Roger;1322201]So many reasons why FDI in the Philippines will never be taken seriosuly IMHO (along with many other reasons) and why the government has to rely on US cash and allows the US NGOs to close bars etc while those in Thailand, Malaysia etc are never targeted. PNoy desperately needs huge chunks of money to try and kick start a failing economy (depite press report it grew 5. 9%. Tell that the locals who remain poor and uneducated!)[/QUOTE]I am surprised that you are serious about moving here and settling in the Philippines WR given your hard line views expressed here.

There must be something else other than some economic advantage that is attractive to you.

I think that people should be careful about mentioning names of people here regarding misdemeanours that they are alleged to have committed, especially since you are only reporting second-hand data that you have read in the Press. It might attract undue attention to this website if any monitoring is occurring. Some of these pollies etc are quite powerful.

BTW, it is Senator Gregorio "Gringo" Honasan (not Hosnan) whose name was bandied about in an earlier post.

i think that you guys need to keep things in perspective.

filipinos are amateurs in the corruption business when compared with the usa.

lobbyists regularly buy the votes of congressmen and senators. whole laws are written, amended, or buried at the whim of industry via lobbyists with bottomless pockets.

and the recent cases of corruption in the banking industry, involving billions of dollars, yet no convictions, or even serious prosecutions. and what have the press done about reporting it? negligible. maybe the filipino press is fore fearless than the western press about widespread corruption at rhe top.

what a farce.

so lay off the filipinos and go for the big guys. or is it just too hard?

g

[quote=econo tech; 1321937]i would antonio trillanes and danilo lim. both lead mutinies against the govt, and even though gma wasn't so loved like cory, just like the anti-cory mutineers, were voted in, thanks to their 'generosity'. and ping lacson. who too disappeared when he had a arrest warrant and when the warrant was squashed on technicality (never mind, the dacer case is still on. though nobody knows if ping will ever face the law.) and wait, ping was assisted by the most trusted man. who died recently. dilg sec. robredo.

and of course, vp binay, who has plunder cases against him, during his time as mayor, but, well, that doesn't stop the people of makati. the so-called educated clan, voting him in as vp, and possibly the next prez.

and to keep the yarn spinning, the vizconde murder. none of the culprits, despite being proof posiitively identified, never had to face the music, not even for their evoporating into thin air and appearing in us of a when the case was hot.

oh, what about palparan, who is most wanted (for his murder of a dozen or so activists) and most loved. for his anti-npa success. and was too voted in as senator due to his 'generosity'

and well, the ramon revilla case, which is another soap opera or telenovela.

and. vicente sotto, who is the most loved senator, despite his past [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] case. unresolved till date.

yah, i know filipinos are very forgiving, but then again, most of the above were voted into power due to their 'generorsity'. damn their criminal records.

oh, btw, on the other hand, there are a lot of militant groups, in phil, and i wonder who sponsors them to be full time activists. like the activists who managed to trace the departure of the palawan governer, and also the group that fabricated evidence against the aussie mining company and left pnoy with a red face after getting caught believing the fabricated stuff, and also the groups that sent fake evidence during the cj's case.

now, if only the super intelligent activists did spend their time doing other things productive, like evicting criminal law-makers.

ps: sxxxx if you know or heard of none of the name me and wr quoted, well, truly, you haven't seen enough of philippines![/quote]

[QUOTE=Sxxxx;1321362]Rubbish, completely the opposite.[/QUOTE]Man. Have you never seen Wil time big time, LOL.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1322261]I am surprised that you are serious about moving here and settling in the Philippines WR given your hard line views expressed here.

There must be something else other than some economic advantage that is attractive to you.

I think that people should be careful about mentioning names of people here regarding misdemeanours that they are alleged to have committed, especially since you are only reporting second-hand data that you have read in the Press. It might attract undue attention to this website if any monitoring is occurring. Some of these pollies etc are quite powerful.

BTW, it is Senator Gregorio "Gringo" Honasan (not Hosnan) whose name was bandied about in an earlier post.[/QUOTE]Just having a rant thats all. Sometimes I get grumpy and regardless of what happens in this country I doubt it will impact me etc as I will be keeping fairly quiet and doing other things. Was not hard line just observations.

All pollies are powerful IMHO whichever country you live in but I take your point and will stop being a grumpy old man and revert to being a "crazy and kinky man" (as a girl recently described me to JSBach. LOL)

Catch up with you soon RK

I've recently come to the decision to remain here in the Philippines, after struggling for a couple of years with the issue. What ultimately decided the issue for me is the fact that I have a nice life here; one that for the most part I enjoy, and in general, I like Filipinos. In the process of arriving at this decision, I accepted the conclusion that to life happily here, you have to accept the place on its own terms, working out for yourself the equation of whether the upsides outweigh the negative factors. To me, this means that it's unrproductive to compare the Philippines to other countries in terms of corruption, the legal system, standards of living, poverty indices, economic growth or other variables. What's the difference? Ultimately, you either like the place or you don't. You enjoy staying here or you don't. It's recognizing the fact that as a foreigner, what you think doesn't matter much in the more general meta context. You're not going to change anything. Thus, to me, whether corruption is "minor league" here compared to the US or Western European countries is totally irrelevant. I can't change the system in the US (where I'm a citizen) or here, where I'm not. The ultimate question is where I'd rather live. Having made the decision, I no longer feel that I need to justify it.

GE

Corruption?

I think that you guys need to keep things in perspective.

Filipinos are amateurs in the corruption business when compared with the USA.

Lobbyists regularly buy the votes of congressmen and senators. Whole laws are written, amended, or buried at the whim of industry via lobbyists with bottomless pockets.

And the recent cases of corruption in the banking industry, involving billions of dollars, yet no convictions, or even serious prosecutions. And what have the press done about reporting it? Negligible. Maybe the Filipino press is fore fearless than the western press about widespread corruption at rhe top.

What a farce.

Hello,

You are absolutely right. Did see a documentary about subprime mortgages and the rating agencies. The health care system in the USA shouldn't be an example for the rest of the world too. The education system isn't that good too. The typical high school is just about the same level as the ones in the Phillipines. Phillipine food is in general not so good either because they did copy the American way of eating. A full plate as cheap as possible.

Kind greetings Frits

Good for you. You have made a good decision. You are absolutely right. Make your decisions in terms of your world, not some other.

Except, that you have decided that, overall, you pefer the Phils to your own country, or any other country.

I have made the same decision in the same way.

G

[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1322441]I've recently come to the decision to remain here in the Philippines, after struggling for a couple of years with the issue. What ultimately decided the issue for me is the fact that I have a nice life here; one that for the most part I enjoy, and in general, I like Filipinos. In the process of arriving at this decision, I accepted the conclusion that to life happily here, you have to accept the place on its own terms, working out for yourself the equation of whether the upsides outweigh the negative factors. To me, this means that it's unrproductive to compare the Philippines to other countries in terms of corruption, the legal system, standards of living, poverty indices, economic growth or other variables. What's the difference? Ultimately, you either like the place or you don't. You enjoy staying here or you don't. It's recognizing the fact that as a foreigner, what you think doesn't matter much in the more general meta context. You're not going to change anything. Thus, to me, whether corruption is "minor league" here compared to the US or Western European countries is totally irrelevant. I can't change the system in the US (where I'm a citizen) or here, where I'm not. The ultimate question is where I'd rather live. Having made the decision, I no longer feel that I need to justify it.

GE[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1322441]I've recently come to the decision to remain here in the Philippines, after struggling for a couple of years with the issue. What ultimately decided the issue for me is the fact that I have a nice life here; one that for the most part I enjoy, and in general, I like Filipinos. In the process of arriving at this decision, I accepted the conclusion that to life happily here, you have to accept the place on its own terms, working out for yourself the equation of whether the upsides outweigh the negative factors. To me, this means that it's unrproductive to compare the Philippines to other countries in terms of corruption, the legal system, standards of living, poverty indices, economic growth or other variables. What's the difference? Ultimately, you either like the place or you don't. You enjoy staying here or you don't. It's recognizing the fact that as a foreigner, what you think doesn't matter much in the more general meta context. You're not going to change anything. Thus, to me, whether corruption is "minor league" here compared to the US or Western European countries is totally irrelevant. I can't change the system in the US (where I'm a citizen) or here, where I'm not. The ultimate question is where I'd rather live. Having made the decision, I no longer feel that I need to justify it.

GE[/QUOTE]Yeah, I've met quite a number of like-minded people who've settled down in the PI and across SEA. A number of bar owners in Manila made the same choice as you some time ago. They seem like they're on the road to living happily ever after. At the end of the day you got to live your life the way you feel comfortable with, it can be in the PI, Zaire or Belize. Wish you happy days ahead GE. Enjoy!

[QUOTE=Fritsvanegter;1322445]. The education system isn't that good too. The typical high school is just about the same level as the ones in the Phillipines. .[/QUOTE]And your basis for this erstwhile comparison is. ?

Come on Frits. I love the way guys like you make these sweeping statements as though you are quoting definitive sources.

I am an Aussie so I am not defending the US system but after having worked at close proximity with the Philippines education system (note the correct spelling of "Philippines" Frits) for the past 15 years and having spent 6 months on sabbatical leave on the east coast of the USA in the mid-90s I can quite comfortably state that the US education system is MUCH more advanced than that of the Philippines, especially if we use [B]access[/B] and [B]equity[/B] as key indicators.

Apart from the huge difference in resources (teacher quality, learning materials, equipment and buildings) , most kids leave their US school with a basic education. In the Philippines, outstanding students manage to learn despite the experience of schooling but the majority fall through the cracks and leave school (and often College) as unemployable semi-adults.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1322600]And your basis for this erstwhile comparison is. ?

Come on Frits. I love the way guys like you make these sweeping statements as though you are quoting definitive sources.

Having worked at close proximity with the Philippines education system (note the correct spelling of "Philippines" Frits) for the past 15 years and having spent 6 months on sabbatical leave on the east coast of the USA in the mid-90s I can quite comfortably state that the US education system is MUCH more advanced than that of the Philippines, especially if we use [B]access[/B] And [B]equity[/B] As key indicators.

Apart from the huge difference in resources (teacher quality, learning materials, equipment and buildings) , most kids leave their US school with a basic education. In the Philippines, outstanding students manage to learn despite the experience of schooling but the majority fall through the cracks and leave school (and often College) as unemployable semi-adults.[/QUOTE]Plus 1. Not to mention, the vast majority of the best research universities in the world (see the various rankings) are in the US (and trust me, I rarely stick up for my country). The average state university in the US is far superior to most of the best national universities in the developing world.

[QUOTE=Psychman;1322606]The average state university in the US is far superior to most of the best national universities in the developing world.[/QUOTE]What would be the evidence for this? Remember that state universities in the U.S. are not simply the flagship universities in each state, like Ohio State University, Penn State, and so on. State universities also include many small liberal arts colleges and teachers' colleges, like Youngstown State, Kutzdown State, Middle Georgia State, Valdosta, Cal State Fullerton, University of Alaska Juneau, and so on. Most of these are not household names. In fact, all the big and little public universities in the U.S. total approximately 650. So the "average" public university would be the one ranked 325th (the median case) among U.S. schools.

Then take a look at either the AWRU rankings or the QS rankings of the top 500 schools in the world. (Actually both are contestable since the evaluators who were surveyed were disproportionately Americans and Brits.) In the AWRU rankings the last American school ranked in the top 500 is Utah State, which ranks 492nd. But Utah State ranks 154th among American universities. This suggests that the 325th ranked U.S. school is likely way down the world ranking list. Also, I skimmed down the AWRU top 500 and found 22 universities in countries that would be considered second world (but still "developing"), such as Brazil or Turkey, and 34 universities in countries that are usually considered third world.

The QS rankings are even kinder to the third world. As a reference point, both the University of the Philippines (ranked 332nd) and Ateneo Manila University (ranked 360th) are in the top 500. De La Salle is just slightly outside the top 500 and University of Santo Tomas is in the middle 600s. As points of comparison, UP ranks higher than Arizona State, and Ateneo ranks higher than the University of Connecticut. Within Arizona, ASU is second only to the University of Arizona, and the University of Connecticut is its state's flagship school. In other words, the two best universities in the Philippines are ranked considerably higher than the average American public university. The top 500 also include universities from India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, South Africa, China, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and numerous other developing countries.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt;1322600]Apart from the huge difference in resources (teacher quality, learning materials, equipment and buildings) , most kids leave their US school with a basic education. In the Philippines, outstanding students manage to learn despite the experience of schooling but the majority fall through the cracks and leave school (and often College) as unemployable semi-adults.[/QUOTE]Not sure where to start here. Methinks Frits is harking back to his own high school days to make a comparison. Filipine high schools are little like american high schools. College prep american students will have had: calculus, AP english, AP history. 2-4 years of a foreign language. 1+ years of a visual / performing art, and 2 or more of: bio / physics / chemistry. Similar filipine students might have had: algebra / geometry. Please see the University of California A-G requirements at:

[url]http://universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/freshman/requirements/a-g-requirements/index.html[/url]

And keep in mind these are minimums for entrance consideration; most students go far beyond because of competitiveness. My 3-semester college calculus textbook was thicker than your fist and cost $165, 30 years ago. A fourth semester on differential equations is common in pretty much every american college, including 2-year 'junior' colleges; yet I'd guess unheard of in all but a few Filipino colleges. One of my son's aerodynamics textbooks is as thick as my outstretched hand and costs over $200, again I'd bet this is fairly unheard of in phils. Also, regarding HS standards, the New York Regent's exams:

[I]Regents Examinations are statewide standardized examinations in core high school subjects required for a Regents Diploma in New York State. In the past, Regents Diplomas were optional and typically offered for college bound students. In recent years graduation requirements have been made more stringent, and currently all students are required to receive a Regents Diploma, and therefore most students, with some limited exceptions, are required to take the Regents Examinations. To graduate, students are required to have earned appropriate credits in a number of specific subjects by passing year-long or half-year courses, after which they must pass Regents Examinations in some of the subject areas. For higher achieving students, a Regents with Advanced Designation and Honors designations are also offered. [/I]

[QUOTE=Red Kilt;1322600]I am an Aussie so I am not defending the US system but after having worked at close proximity with the Philippines education system (note the correct spelling of "Philippines" Frits) for the past 15 years and having spent 6 months on sabbatical leave on the east coast of the USA in the mid-90s I can quite comfortably state that the US education system is MUCH more advanced than that of the Philippines, especially if we use [B]access[/B] and [B]equity[/B] as key indicators.[/QUOTE]Ya lets talk about that access / equity thing. American schools teach a population that is very heterogeneous in many ways. Most other places on earth teach a very homogenous population in many ways. At my daughter's old HS there were 16 spoken languages (9 at one of my son's HS). American schools mix multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, and multi-colored students. At many american schools are a smattering of major religions (hindi, sikh, christian, islamics, taoists, buddhists, hmongs, jews) all in the same school. Rival gang affiliations (often associated with a father's incarceration) is in the mix. Where I grew up, there was a european mix of names in the neighborhood: french, german, greek, etc, but we spoke english. In my current abode in the western US, my daughter's friends came over to swim in the pool and they were: laotian, guatemalan, arabic, mexican, peruvian, Filipino, viet, canadian, and redneck haha, etc. Filipino schools don't have to worry about teaching that kind of diversity. That should cover equity.

Access: when was the last time you saw a filipine elementary or HS install elevators or special toilets because a new student enrolled mid-year in a wheelchair? Its the law in the US. The law says US schools must accommodate every student. In many places on the planet, the disabled are not allowed entry.

[QUOTE=Skip Kost;1322636]The top 500 also include universities from India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, South Africa, China, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and numerous other developing countries.[/QUOTE]Skip.

The list must be screwed up if Saudi Arabia is on it, as the quality of graduates from any Saudi univeristy is appalling. I should know as I interview them regularly and have to employ them under the government's Niqat system where we have to have 40% of all the work force as nationals. No choice and basically the so called finance majors for example have no clue on basic maths, the ones with a 'degree' in bsuiness administration have no idea about business. We give them simple tests, they fail and yet we have to employ! So this list has some bias somewhere LOL.

Having interviewd one Saudi applicant from a US university who said her cousin at one of the supposedly better Saudi establishments "never took any notes at allk when in class" I an highly skeptical of this listing for those reasons alone (but I have plenty more!).

Most of not all the good Saudis I employ (or my friends employ) have been educated overseas in USA, UK or Australia. Although some admittedly have been at 4th rate colleges in the USA (which does have a plethora of thses nasties as well and IMHO Australia has one I know of that I am always a tad cautious about if I interview a graduate from that place)

Just my two cents

Hey Skip and WR,

Don't complicate matters with your broad international perspectives and bring college / university standards into it. It has already sidetracked the basic issue.

Frits said high schools in US and the Philippines were the same.

I think only a few minutes with some very basic performance indicator data, a short video and a compilation of photos taken from a sample of schools in both countries would quickly establish that his statement is silly.

Enough! Leave out all the University ranking stuff.

This is the Manila thread where we talk about opportunities to exploit our hobbies in Manila.

Oops it's late. I need to get to an appointment.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1322655]Hey Skip and WR,

Don't complicate matters with your broad international perspectives and bring college / university standards into it. It has already sidetracked the basic issue.

Frits said high schools in US and the Philippines were the same.

Oops it's late. I need to get to an appointment.[/QUOTE]Agreed. And a certain lady or 2 are missing your presence elsewhere LOL