Kyiv

[QUOTE=Liljoey; 1258913]Uke Boy, in deference to your veteran standing, BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH etc. YAWN.

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1150887&viewfull=1#post1150887[/url][/QUOTE]I don't need any defender, thank you.

Joey, can you re-write this dense, turgid and incomprehensible explanation into clear and concise 1-2 sentences? Attempting to read through your bloat is a very tedious experience and you do it all too often. You should at least think about non-native English readers (and there are many) who would have even greater difficulty in understanding you.

The best service you can provide to newbies, as you claim you are trying to do, would be to KISS – Keep It Simple Stupid.

Here's a suggestion of what you could have written: "My evaluations, like everyone else's, are highly subjective. A 9 for me may not be that for you, and that's fine."

As for your argument that Jet Setr backed you up, this is a guy who has all of 14 useless posts and the one you quote was his last from a year ago. For me, that is no confirmation at all. Other posters such as Colon, of all people, and Romany, who is in town right now, have disputed your assertions. If Cruiser had backed you up, then that would be another story.

[QUOTE=RomanyStar; 1258902]Started the beautiful sunny day walking up and down Khreshchatyk admiring the fine city and it's occupants. The only thing that at all resembled a pick up opportunity was a nicely put together 40 something that struck up a conversation in English. Not the demographic I'm looking for for short term.

Thanks to Sevenup for a lead to Dolly Massage.

All the Mambo messaging paid off with a fine freebie last night. The search I was using was for those looking for sponsorship, but not sex for money. Not group sex and not one night stand. This gal advertised with one photo (real) , said she was 25 (I'd add 3-4) , and wanted correspondence.

Hope I'm not boring the regulars with this drivel. I'm trying to show those coming to Kiev for the first time what my results were from what I learned on the board and elsewhere.

LJ, I DID read the board. I did tip the manager. I did duck my head in downstairs for one last OJ before leaving. I don't carry a notebook. I have been going to strip clubs all around the world for over 30 years, with varying levels of success. Rio didn't work for me, different strokes for different folks, right? As I said in my post, I was pretty used up, mostly out window shopping, so I didn't try to negotiate the Buddha Babe down a dime.[/QUOTE]Romany, you passed on a "nicely put together 40 something?" You probably made a big mistake. You went out for a hand job and a platonic dinner before heading to Buddha and suffering from sticker shock.

There are more than a few nicely put together MILFs in Kiev. Those that take care of themselves that I have enjoyed are wild women in bed.

There would have been nothing wrong with you talking to her, asking for her phone number and meeting up for coffee or a drink later that day or the next day. Take advantage of all opportunities that come your way. This could have been dynamite. We all want hard-body 18 year-olds but it may not always happen. Keep posting and letting us know what's up.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1259014]A bit off subject, but I would like to mention some observations from my first night at D'lux. The girls all have really bad teeth. The other observation was the cheap clothing. I much prefer this environment of poverty in Kiev as opposed to the wealth and isolation of Moscow.[/QUOTE]The bad teeth are indicative of village and provincial girls, the same for the clothes. Standard health services, even dentistry, are still lacking. These girls many times have to buy second hand European cast-offs due to their limited incomes.

When you see that, you should be able to negotiate less than top dollar prices.

That is another reason they are in the clubs, to make a little on the side and maybe even latch on to someone for a longer term, if lucky.

[QUOTE=Uke Boy; 1259025]I don't need any defender, thank you.

Joey, can you re-write this dense, turgid and incomprehensible explanation into clear and concise 1-2 sentences? Attempting to read through your bloat is a very tedious experience and you do it all too often. You should at least think about non-native English readers (and there are many) who would have even greater difficulty in understanding you.

The best service you can provide to newbies, as you claim you are trying to do, would be to KISS – Keep It Simple Stupid.

Here's a suggestion of what you could have written: "My evaluations, like everyone else's, are highly subjective. A 9 for me may not be that for you, and that's fine."

As for your argument that Jet Setr backed you up, this is a guy who has all of 14 useless posts and the one you quote was his last from a year ago. For me, that is no confirmation at all. Other posters such as Colon, of all people, and Romany, who is in town right now, have disputed your assertions. If Cruiser had backed you up, then that would be another story.[/QUOTE]I guess you didn't get my point, and maybe the fault is mine for assuming you could relate to the statistical concept I was trying to convey. I recognize what I wrote was a little complicated, but I thought you would benefit from understanding my concept. I guess not. It's obvious you think my opinions on female beauty are not reliable, like Cruiser Dave thinks. And you both openly admit that you came to your opinion based on no personal knowledge, not having been at the Rio club yourselves, which to me means you talk before you know.

My point was not at all that I recognize your opinion may be different than mine. Thanks for trying to rephrase my post just the same.

My point was the opposite. That my evaluations of the line up at Rio are being written with the viewpoint of the majority of men in mind to the best of my ability, and so I try to speak in terms of there being girls in "an 8 to 9 range" to encompass a broader range of opinion. A girl who I label as being in an 8 to 9 range is a girl who I am quite confident would be considered very hot by a majority of men, some maybe labelling her an 8, others thinking she's a 7, and some thinking she's a 9, But a majority would find her worth checking out. In that way I believe my evaluations of such things, when I have offered them (which hasn't been for some time, so I'm wondering what you and Cruiser Dave are in a blither about) are useful and helpful to the readers here.

My purpose was to decidedly reject the notion that you and Cruiser Dave were suggesting that what I thought might be a 9, would be in reality only a 3 level girl. That's sheer nonsense. If you both have an agenda against people going for p4p to Rio strip club, in preference for some other place or method which you call the 99 percent of Kiev (but have left undescribed or unwritten about) , let's just let everyone here recognize where you are coming from, so your objectivity can be evaluated.

My own opinions of what I think the majority of men would find attractive stand on their own. I am quite confident they are correct. I do not need backup. I merely happened to recall the post of Jet Setr and referenced it. Your dismissal without pause of Jet Setr's statement shows you are not objective and have some sort of agenda. I don't know what it is yet, but if you continue to post, I will maybe figure it out. You will see the facts when you go to Rio and you can make up your own mind. So let's just leave it that you don't rely on my opinion, and you only rely on Cruiser Dave's, and I am truly ok with that.

As to your comment that you like shorter posts, and I tend to be more detailed and lengthier, I am guilty as charged. KISS method was never my strong point. But my reason is that I don't have the extra time necessary to edit down what I've written to pithy pearls of wisdom, and also that for newbies more details are more helpful. So at the expense of yawns from guys like you who know the basics already, I leave details in the report or survey the p4p options from time to time for the benefit of newbies. And despite this, I get frequent questions over and over about the same details. So I know there is a value in this for newbie readers of this thread. To guys like you all I would say is just have a little more tolerance and suffer through, or better skip over my posts, as you obviously know all these basics already.

My only purpose in reporting about the various options for p4p in Kiev is so that newbies will not miss out. Therefore I try to present the options available together with the considerations one should take into account in deciding what to do with one's time and money in Kiev. It is my opinion that very hot girls that would thrill most men are available at Rio for take out. If you or Cruiser Dave becloud that option by something you wrote that causes newbies to mistakenly believe it's not worth going there because all they have in the line up is fat, chubby girls on a 3 level (a false premise), then in my view all you have accomplished is to cause newbies to miss out. It's like the advice you recently offered Romany Star that he should not have passed on the 40 something MILF. It's because you know from experience that such hook ups can be very pleasurable and that he missed out. Likewise, do I think that in light of the current options of p4p in Kiev, anyone who misguidedly stays away from Rio on the incorrect notion they don't have good looking enough girls is missing out -- BIG TIME.

What is the address for buddah bar?

I found their site but they don't have their address there

how far is it from Rio?

It is important you plan your day-by-day hunt when you go to Kiev.

You see those clubs for your eyecandy, but they are not better than a lot of places in california, also about prices, maybe california is cheaper.

I visited san francisco in 2002, and quality of beauties and actions inside strip-clubs was much better than in Kiev.

Be very selective with girls, nobody deserves crazy prices.

Know yourself: you want to pay money for pure feticism, such as touching a beauty and listen her moaning, or you want to pay money for real sex such as feeling her tongue strolling from your dickhead to your asshole?

[QUOTE=Muddy7; 1259057]What is the address for buddah bar?

I found their site but they don't have their address there.

How far is it from Rio?[/QUOTE]

Joey, the amount of time you spend on writing your dreck and drivel is amazing. Editing really would help. I bet you also love listening to yourself speak for hours on end. To each his own.

I do not need to nor do I care to understand your ratings system. It's garbage and a form of self-adoration that you wish to tell us all in great boring detail how you judge who is atractive to you. The bottom line. All such judgements are purely subjective, have been, always will be. No need to explain ad nauseum and then try to impose or justify your standards on the rest of us.

95% or more of the girls who work in strip clubs ARE attractive. That is why the clubs hire them, duh! The quality gets ito be more problematic when using online escort services. However, it is still worth trying even this option.

If the sadly departed Bez Bezarra was still posting, I am sure he would have joined in and written "Where are the photos, show us the photos to back up what you say and then let us judge!"

It's too bad, though, since you do have something to contribute.

[QUOTE=Muddy7; 1259057]What is the address for buddah bar?

I found their site but they don't have their address there.

How far is it from Rio?[/QUOTE]Next door to. Kreschatick Hotel, Kreschatick Street.

Walking distance to Rio, or easy ride on Bus 11, LOL.

[QUOTE=Uke Boy; 1259067]Joey, the amount of time you spend on writing your dreck and drivel is amazing. Editing really would help. I bet you also love listening to yourself speak for hours on end. To each his own.

I do not need to nor do I care to understand your ratings system. It's garbage and a form of self-adoration that you wish to tell us all in great boring detail how you judge who is atractive to you. The bottom line. All such judgements are purely subjective, have been, always will be. No need to explain ad nauseum and then try to impose or justify your standards on the rest of us.

The bottom line is that 95% or more of the girls who work in strip clubs ARE attractive. That is why the clubs hire them, duh! The quality gets ito be more problematic when using online escort services. However, it is still worth trying even this option.

If the sadly departed Bez Bezarra was still posting, I am sure he would have joined in and written "Where are the photos, show us the photos to back up what you say and then let us judge!"

It's too bad, though, since you do have something to contribute.[/QUOTE]You don't speak for the "rest of us" except in your own arrogant self inflated head. What's worse is you speak in ignorance, and unfortunately there are possibly those who may be swayed by your words, to their detriment. I guess you figure that attacking me will somehow further your agenda against people going to the Rio club. What you have against that p4p option I cannot fathom.

It is unimportant, truly, what your opinion is of what you call my "drek and drivel" and that you think my efforts to report about the level of beauty of girls in various p4p venues is "garbage". In retrospect, seeing how closed your mind is, I regret trying to explain my thinking to you. It was obviously wasted effort. What marks your opinion as valueless is that you have admitted you lack personal knowledge and have not been to Rio in years, and yet you still berate my opinion even though you must know that it is quite probably correct. Your ad hominem attacks are simply base name calling and do not substitute for facts.

I know that my accurate postings have helped many of the rest of the readers on this thread. I have received sufficient feedback from the some of the membership to feel I haven't wasted my time. So, it matters not that someone as unimportant as you attacks my reporting without valid basis. Knock yourself out, Uke Boy. Rail against my reports or me all you want. It doesn't affect me. But it can affect other readers. Doing it only exposes further the fact that you have some sort of agenda that has nothing to do with informing the membership of helpful details.

I would encourage any readers who doubt the veracity of my factual reports because of some arrogant and ignorant postings by these two members, Uke Boy and Cruiser Dave, to investigate matters personally so they don't miss out on something fun that exists in Kiev.

LJ

LJ & UB, I don't think your personal attacks on one another are helping me find girls.

Joey, you are nothing but a completely thin-skinned dolt who when his self-proclaimed "authority" is questioned goes into an incomprehensible and personal rant.

Of course, you did not read what I wrote. Maybe it is because you cannot bear to read what others write but want to have everyone praise and faun and kiss your ass over what you write.

I wrote that I could not stomach your ridiculous ratings system, not about anything else. I even said that most of the girls in clubs are attractive. You really don't like people to disagree with you at all. You seem to want to be the arbiter of all things Kiev and especially that of Rio.

Now it becomes more and more of a likelihood that you use your posts to receive payments in kind from the management of Rio. Maybe that is why you seem to succeed more than others. Your steer the innocents to Rio so that they can pay the entrance fee, pay for lots of drinks and private dances, all hopefully without any subsequent take-out. Clubs can make a lot more money that way than losing a top girl for 4 or 5 hours.

When these guys then write that they cannot take anyone home, you tell them that they did not follow Liljoey's Rio Commandments exactly as set down to the peasants by his highness. In your world, everyone else is wrong and only you are right.

Let the monger beware.

Climaxnow,

Your argue will never end as bothos you has his point of view. And Both of you are right. Why you do not write your own experiences in Kiev in Rio or CLubs or freebies with posting some photos. And I think ISG readers are smart enought to read, to understand and to select. Every mongerer has his own taste and plans and time (limited or not) and budget and skills and languages. Many factors so no rules. More we read more we learn. And more we monger more we learn also.

Apparently.

[QUOTE=Liljoey;1258990]Do you really think that you are the only man who knows what an 8, 9 or 10 girl is? Do you really think that others' opinions are those of guys who are 4's who are so overthrilled they got laid by a 5 girl that they think she is a 9? C'mon down off your high horse.[/QUOTE]

It was 22 today and sunny. The weather is only going to get better

[url]www.weather.com.[/url] Type in Kiev and hit return.

There are cuties all over the place. Khreshatic was full of cute village girls today, you don't need to go to Rio ad nauseum to find them.

[QUOTE=Ronaldinjo;1258994]As lilojey said, there are a lot of avarage girls there, but if you are lucky so its possible to bang some 8 or in rare occasion 8. 5 there. I saw there even 3-4 s (some really fat strippers that nearly fall donw from stick by gravitationl force of there weights, but come on. There are some cutties there, not everything is so bad. What is the weather like in the beginning and middle of April in Kiev? Can somebody answer me.[/QUOTE]

But it would be good reading if LJ wasn't so repetitive.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1259112]LJ & UB, I don't think your personal attacks on one another are helping me find girls.[/QUOTE]