Seeking Arrangements

Any of you guys keep an extra apartment to use as a love shack? I'm about to rent an apartment (I verbally agreed yesterday, but haven't signed anything yet).

It looks like (fingers crossed) that I'll be maintaining two arrangements actively. I did the math, and the rent on the apartment ($1400 per month) is going to cost significantly more than using a hotel (tough to estimate monthly hotel cost due to unknown number of meetups, but the cost is in the ballpark of $800 to $1600 per month but probably closer to $800 for most months).

I'm willing to pay the extra cost of having a love shack so that I don't have to deal with hotels all the time. Especially the constraints, such as checking in after 2 pm and then having to reappear the next morning to "check out. " Of course, I could check out early, but if I always do this, then they'll probably think I'm doing something illicit. Plus, I hate dealing with the hassle of sneaking girls into hotels. And there's also the hassle of having to keep changing and using different hotels all the time. Finally, just want a place to chill.

Any of you guys see downsides to this, other than money? A friend of mine had a love shack, but his wife found out somehow. So, that's also a drawback.

[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2486864]What are you paying per meet for a hot (9 or10) young SB in major US cities?[/QUOTE]I live in a major US city. I have not met any 9-10 through SA. I am fairly new on SA though (a few months). I met a stripper who is a 7-8 (beautiful face but some baby fat at tummy) at a local strip club (she is also coincidentally chatting with me on SA without knowing it) and she asked for 1,000 for about 4 hours during the day or overnight. She later budged to 800. I tried to bargain her to 1,000 per week with 2 meetings (so 500 per meeting) per week but she didn't bite. So far she is the most beautiful SA chic that I met.

I am chatting online with a gorgeous chic on SA but so far I haven't met her in person yet. She wants a long term relationship with connection and all that so it will take some time.

[QUOTE=DiverOyster;2486913]I live in a major US city. I have not met any 9-10 through SA. I am fairly new on SA though (a few months). I met a stripper who is a 7-8 (beautiful face but some baby fat at tummy) at a local strip club (she is also coincidentally chatting with me on SA without knowing it) and she asked for 1,000 for about 4 hours during the day or overnight. She later budged to 800. I tried to bargain her to 1,000 per week with 2 meetings (so 500 per meeting) per week but she didn't bite. So far she is the most beautiful SA chic that I met.

I am chatting online with a gorgeous chic on SA but so far I haven't met her in person yet. She wants a long term relationship with connection and all that so it will take some time.[/QUOTE]That is way too much. The most I paid for "one meet" was $700 when I girl stayed with me for roughly 36 hours (two nights and a day) in a major city in the US. Yes, she was pretty, a skinny blonde. I would never pay $800 for 4 hours of SB session. First of all, most sugarbabes do tend to stay for a couple of hours of sex (much longer if including a lunch or dinner time together is included). And my normal is a couple of hundred, most often less than 300.

I would advise you not to fall for such prices. Unless you are doing this in an expensive city such as NYC, Boston, SF, etc.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2486883]
Any of you guys see downsides to this, other than money? A friend of mine had a love shack, but his wife found out somehow. So, that's also a drawback.[/QUOTE]You may want to check to find out if it is legal for a married man to have an affair in China, then weight the consequence. Usually wife will want to keep things quiet so it is not as bad the girl using it as a threat when things don't work out.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2486930]You may want to check to find out if it is legal for a married man to have an affair in China, then weight the consequence. Usually wife will want to keep things quiet so it is not as bad the girl using it as a threat when things don't work out.[/QUOTE]From what I've been told, it is illegal for a married man to have an affair. Also, from what I've been told, when police cannot prove that there was a monetary transaction involved, then they will charge you for having sex outside of marriage.

I'm thinking about telling the girls that I am renting this place using AirBnB.

However, I am concerned about my neighbors ratting me out. In China, anyone can get social credits for being a good citizen, and being a good citizen includes ratting out people.

[QUOTE=DiverOyster;2486913]I live in a major US city. I have not met any 9-10 through SA. [/QUOTE]Actually, this is a fair point. I was on SA for 1. 5 years, and I used it quite actively in at least 9 cities, and I never met a 9 on SA. There were some 9's based on their pictures, but I couldn't get a meetup with most of them, but I did get a meetup with a few and they were not 9's in person. So, I fell for the photoshop. I don't understand why women exaggerate their beauty that much, as it only leads to disappointment when the face-to-face meetup occurs, but I digress.

I guess the 9's don't need to use SA. I think most 9's that are looking for money will just marry a rich guy.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2486934]
I'm thinking about telling the girls that I am renting this place using AirBnB.
[/QUOTE]Airbnb maybe a better choice. Have you checked the price? I just checked and all the prices I saw are less than $900 for a month.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2486955]Airbnb maybe a better choice. Have you checked the price? I just checked and all the prices I saw are less than $900 for a month.[/QUOTE]Thanks for checking, Nounce. Yeah, I poked around AirBnB too. I actually used AirBnB a few times in China, and I liked it. No ID is required. You just pay them and then you get the passcode to the keypad of their unit. However, in China, there's the concern of hidden video cameras. Believe it or not, the property owners believe that it's their right to spy on guests, to make sure nothing is getting stolen or damaged.

However, today, I struck a deal with the landlord. I asked if we could do this without a lease, and she uses her name on the utility bills and I reimburse her. I told her that I didn't want my name associated with the place at all. In exchange, I told her that I would always pay rent 3 months in advance. She was still uneasy about this arrangement, and then I offered to pay an additional $150 per month, and bang, she agreed. So, rent is now $1500 per month instead of $1350.

So, I now have one arrangement for $1200 per month, and it looks like I'll have another arrangement for $500 per month. When I include rent, the cost of maintaining two arrangements will be $3200 per month. Not great, not bad.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2486883]Any of you guys keep an extra apartment to use as a love shack? I'm about to rent an apartment (I verbally agreed yesterday, but haven't signed anything yet).

It looks like (fingers crossed) that I'll be maintaining two arrangements actively. I did the math, and the rent on the apartment ($1400 per month) is going to cost significantly more than using a hotel (tough to estimate monthly hotel cost due to unknown number of meetups, but the cost is in the ballpark of $800 to $1600 per month but probably closer to $800 for most months).

I'm willing to pay the extra cost of having a love shack so that I don't have to deal with hotels all the time. Especially the constraints, such as checking in after 2 pm and then having to reappear the next morning to "check out. " Of course, I could check out early, but if I always do this, then they'll probably think I'm doing something illicit. Plus, I hate dealing with the hassle of sneaking girls into hotels. And there's also the hassle of having to keep changing and using different hotels all the time. Finally, just want a place to chill.

Any of you guys see downsides to this, other than money? A friend of mine had a love shack, but his wife found out somehow. So, that's also a drawback.[/QUOTE]What is a minimum duration of a rental contract? 6 months? A year? The costs should not be compared not just on a monthly basis but for the duration of the contract. If you are traveling, or if Corona hits China again and can't meet, or having a tough and dry month for some reason. Whatever it may be. You are still on the hook for paying the rent. So, the economics make sense only if you have a steady stream of sugar babes to justify the rent and occupancy.

Wow, $1400 for a monthly rent sounds expensive in China, not any different than it is most major US cities. I guess it is because you are in Beijing? With China's per capita income being one eighth of what it is here, I would have thought rents would be much cheaper but it doesn't seem like it.

If you are meeting a girl (s) in this rental place for say 4 times a week, each for 2 or 3 hours, that is roughly 10 hours spent a week in this place. And you have to assume you will spend that much time with this girl week in week out. Essentially, you need this place for 1/15 of a week, I. E. 7% occupancy. I would consider going down the price if possible. It doesn't have to be Marriott quality rental place, Supermotel would do.

Here is a previously unpublished story from last summer. Early in my SA career. 4th girl in the series as I recall. I hope you find this entertaining. There are a few primary thoughts here:

1. SA can be amazing. This was a once in a lifetime experience I could not do without SA.

2. Some girls truly CAN fake affection like nobodies business. In the end this girl totally used me and I was out about $2500 and some heartache.

3. I wouldn't trade it for anything, despite how it turned out in the end.

Although this story ends very badly, its peak is amongst the highests highs I have ever experienced; followed by the most crushing defeat, as she stomped on my heart in spike heels. A good lesson for me about becoming too attached. And a good lesson for all of us that a pretty girl can take serious advantage of you. But it was all worth it. So let me take you through it as I experienced it -- not knowing it would have an untimely demise.

About 6 weeks prior to my trip to BA, I met this smoking hot girl on Seeking Arrangement. Her name is Valentina and she is of Peruvian descent but lives in Argentina (with her mom and dad -- she is only 20). We hit it off super fast because she speaks fluent English. Taught herself from age 17 till today. And so all the light banter and flirting totally works. She looks great in pictures, but waaaay better in person. And when she laughs? Wowza!

Anyhow we got to texting back and forth daily, during the weeks before my trip, and at some times I was spending pretty much my whole day "talking" with her. This is actually a really good thing with an SA girl for a few reasons -- one, hookers won't text with you for weeks on end; and two, by the time you meet you feel like old friends.

Without getting explicit, during our testing, she dropped some pretty good hints that sex was on the menu. And at some point I broached dollars loosely and she gave a figure that was very manageable. So we put that behind us and did not discuss again until the very last hour we were together.

So after just about cumming in anticipation, I finally met my girl. We agreed to meet at a waterfront restaurant on the pier in Buenos Aires in a place called Puerto Madera. I was a few minutes late and she was standing outside doing a video chat. Super pretty girl. She was wearing the torn jeans from one of her pictures that I had told her I liked. I also told her subtly that I liked her lips natural and she was paying attention, because she never wore the bright red stuff she often does, that I hate so much. Clever girl!

Lunch was as you might expect from a first date. We have a fun time, but clearly are just taking the first tentative steps in a relationship. This is soooooo different from hookers. I'd experienced it with Maria (one of my early SA dates in LA) and here it was all over again. I had to be myself but at the same time win her over. Fortunately she loves my sense of humor and I had her laughing most of the lunch.

At lunch we find how just compatible we are -- we both drink gin and tonics and we both start to order the same meal (I change so we have something different) Later we test this to see if one of us is faking it; but sure enough, every meal, we independently choose the same thing. It was kinda spooky actually.

After lunch, we decide to stroll the wharf. Again like a date. Just side by side and then suddenly hand in hand not even knowing who initiated. Super comfortable and getting better by the minute. We stop for another G&T and as we socially lubricate, it just gets better and better. Fortunately I don't get to the point of thinking "how do I suggest we go fuck?" because she initiates as we are strolling, with "Babe, I'm tired. Let's go back to the hotel. " Yeah. You bet! And we grab a cab.

Back in the room it's totally comfortable. We kiss deeply and passionately and roll around on the bed a bit fully clothed. The next bit is a bit escortish when she says "you want to shower first or me" but I roll with it and we both shower independently. As I am headed to the shower, she asks what music I want and I say whatever you like best babe -- let's do YOUR music. And she puts on stripper music -- I mean the really explicit stuff -- "going to hit that pussy *****" - that kinda thing. I laugh out loud and say my favorite. I mean who doesn't like fucking to that. She says it's American Hip Hop! And I tell her, "No, babe, it's stripper music," and it's her turn to laugh. She loves being naughty.

Back on the bed and back to the kissing. She LOVES to give head so we are pretty quickly on to that. She likes to jam it in and out, where it hits the back of her throat and she lets out a little cry each time, mixed with moans. It turns out this is a great source of sexual satisfaction for her, as I learn later.

In tune with her explicit stripper music, she'd told me via text a couple weeks back that she was going to twerk for me. Kinda kidding around. Well no lie. After some spectacular head, she still has on her lacy bra and stripper thong and she positions herself with her head facing the foot of the bed and doggie-style ass my direction and totally brings it. Ass pumping twerking queen! Very, very sexy. Makes me want to fuck her bad. So I do.

But first, I go down on her instead. Get her pretty sloppy and she has this way of clamping her fists closed when she hits mini Os that is very cute (I learn later that she can only truly get off by fucking or having dick in her mouth. This is unusual but just how she is wired.) And I'm not complaining.

Then there is a lot more blowjob. She loves this, no lie. And thanks to my prior 5 cuties that week in Sao Paulo, I have stamina to spare. So we fuck in Mish for a long time. With plenty of kissing even though she is short. The fit is great and I think I am going to cum several times. But no. So off comes the condom, for a strong CIM finish. Of course, swallow with a smile. Ah, my new favorite girlfriend.

She has to go to her Mom's birthday at 730 -- it's about 530 by now. So we take a spectacular nap. You can tell she is totally spent because she falls asleep naked on her face. Her ass is just about perfect. Maybe not Fortune perfect (Diva girl, best ass in the world bar none) but top 5. I could barely bear to look at her, she was so beautiful sleeping.

Eventually we wake from our slumber and off she goes. Ever the gentleman, I walk her to her Uber a few blocks away (in BA Uber has pickup points — not door to door). As we part, we make plans to meet up the next morning. But that's in Part 2 stayed tuned as one of the most epic nights of my life is coming up!

[blue][Commercial Message deleted by Admin][/blue]

[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was redacted or deleted because it appeared to be a commercial message and/or it contained links to a commercial website. Please post reports consisting primarily of a commercial nature and/or reports with links to commercial websites in the Classified Advertisement section of the Forum. Please read the Forum's Posting Guidelines and the Forum's FAQ for further information.[/blue]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2487083]Here is a previously unpublished story from last summer. [/QUOTE]Steve, your job must require strong writing skills. IMHO, you're one of the best writers on ISG.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2487051]What is a minimum duration of a rental contract? 6 months? A year? The costs should not be compared not just on a monthly basis but for the duration of the contract. If you are traveling, or if Corona hits China again and can't meet, or having a tough and dry month for some reason. Whatever it may be. You are still on the hook for paying the rent. So, the economics make sense only if you have a steady stream of sugar babes to justify the rent and occupancy.

Wow, $1400 for a monthly rent sounds expensive in China, not any different than it is most major US cities. I guess it is because you are in Beijing? With China's per capita income being one eighth of what it is here, I would have thought rents would be much cheaper but it doesn't seem like it.

If you are meeting a girl (s) in this rental place for say 4 times a week, each for 2 or 3 hours, that is roughly 10 hours spent a week in this place. And you have to assume you will spend that much time with this girl week in week out. Essentially, you need this place for 1/15 of a week, I. E. 7% occupancy. I would consider going down the price if possible. It doesn't have to be Marriott quality rental place, Supermotel would do.[/QUOTE]Pessimist, I sincerely appreciate your comments and suggestions. I found this place through informal channels, which is common in China because real estate agents get way too huge a cut, something like double typical commissions that you'd find in the USA. Using the informal channels doesn't benefit the renter (me) that much because the home owner is supposed to pay the agent cost. Therefore, when a home owner can find a renter on their own, they are usually very keen on trying to seal the deal so they can avoid paying an agent.

So, here is what I was able to negotiate.

(1) I rent for 3 months at a time. This just means that I pay 3 months in advance. I only have to give one month's notice that I am done. So, the shortest duration is 3 months as long as I tell the owner that I'm moving out before December. Every time I renew, I am only tacking on 3 more months. To my surprise, the owner (a she) had very little problem with this. Normally, the minimum lease length is one year. My guess is that she finds it pretty easy to find renters.

(2) We do this without a formal lease agreement. This is actually common in China. Renters usually pay three months rent in advance, so home owners don't bear that much risk. I don't know of a single person who has a formal lease arrangement for more than one year. In the first year, there usually is a formal lease simply because an agent is involved. But after that first least is up, the renter and owner just continue without an agent and formal lease. I did the same when I lived in Beijing. After the first year lease was up, I just continued to live in my apartment, always paying 3 months rent in advance, without a lease.

(3) The owner pays for my utilities and I just reimburse her.

Originally, I only pitched (1) and (2), and after some negotiation, we agreed on $1285 per month (I previously stated $1400, but my exchange rate calculation was off). Her listing price was $1570 per month, and so I was able to get her to come down quite a bit. She actually showed me her lease agreement with her current tenant and it showed a rent of $1430 per month, and given that the rental market took a bit of hit this year, I felt she should be charging me a lower rent, not a higher rent. I think one reason she finally agreed to the $1285 is because I'm a foreigner. This may be a generalization, but in China, I feel like home owners prefer renting to foreigners because we are easy. We rarely complain and we rarely ask for anything and we rarely destroy property. The other thing is that I told her that it would only be me. No kids or pets.

Then, I remembered that I had to sign up for utilities, and so I asked her to do that for me and that I'd just reimburse her. To my surprise, this put her off. She said that she's never done this for any tenant before, and she's too busy to do stuff like this. However, I simply didn't want my name on anything. So, I pressed the issue. I said I just needed heat and electricity, I did not need cable, phone, or internet. Then she said she should charge me what her current tenant pays in rent. And I said it's a done deal if you include internet too. She said deal. So, I'm paying $1430 per month. Yeah, I admit that I went up too high by adding $145 per month, but I felt like having an opportunity to have a place to myself while INCOGNITO was too good a thing to lose in the final moments of our negotiations.

And yes, rent in Shanghai and Beijing is VERY high. For example, a decent 3 bedroom apartment that is just outside the main downtown area is around $4000 per month. My new place is a 1 bedroom unit, outside the main downtown area, and the unit is pretty nice. I might actually work there sometimes.

And yes, the occupancy rate will be very low, even if I go there and just work sometimes. So, we will see if I feel it's worth it. With my current arrangement, it's just stressful having to find different hotels all the time, and arguing about who books the room all the time. We don't want to become regulars at any hotel, and she doesn't want so many hotel bookings on her "official" record, and every time I book a hotel the police is automatically notified per China policy. And then there's the hassle of having to register guests. Also, hotels give me a VERY tight window, because I cannot check in until after 2 pm and I have to be home for dinner usually by about 5 pm or 6 pm, and then I have to go to the hotel the next morning to "check out. " Of course, I could check out after a few hours, but that would only raise eyebrows. Sure, there are ST hotels, but technically it's illegal for foreigners to use them based on recent regulations, and besides, foreigners in ST hotels also often raises eyebrows and suspicions, especially when the foreigner is a middle-aged American and his "girlfriend" is Chinese who is half his age.

But all in all, this love shack is going to cost me a lot. I would not have done it if it wasn't for the fact that I am likely to have another arrangement. Plus, I'm also thinking about the many outcall pros that I can also bring back to the love shack. If I were only going to use the love shack for one arrangement, there's no way I'd do it.

Another option is that I let my GF find a cheap place of her own and I pay her rent. (She currently shares a place with someone, which is common in Shanghai given the high rent.) But fuck that. I'd be locked into a one year commitment. And I'll also go crazy wondering if she's fucking other guys at her place. And, I wouldn't be able to use the place for my other arrangement and for outcall pros.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487257]Steve, your job must require strong writing skills. IMHO, you're one of the best writers on ISG.


So, here is what I was able to negotiate.

(1) I rent for 3 months at a time. This just means that I pay 3 months in advance. I only have to give one month's notice that I am done. So, the shortest duration is 3 months as long as I tell the owner that I'm moving out before December. Every time I renew, I am only tacking on 3 more months. To my surprise, the owner (a she) had very little problem with this. Normally, the minimum lease length is one year. My guess is that she finds it pretty easy to find renters.

(2) We do this without a formal lease agreement. This is actually common in China. Renters usually pay three months rent in advance, so home owners don't bear that much risk. I don't know of a single person who has a formal lease arrangement for more than one year. In the first year, there usually is a formal lease simply because an agent is involved. But after that first least is up, the renter and owner just continue without an agent and formal lease. I did the same when I lived in Beijing. After the first year lease was up, I just continued to live in my apartment, always paying 3 months rent in advance, without a lease.

(3) The owner pays for my utilities and I just reimburse her..[/QUOTE]Flawlessly logical. You have to have enough money to play in this game. Being cheap can cost you in the end. So, what sounds like a mongers paradise is really dodging the eyes and ears of a privacy free society. How do people live under the control and watchful eyes of the authorities? I wonder if people will continue to tolerate this in the long run. I suppose if you never do anything against the law, it will not affect you, but I bristle at the way a government can control my actions, my thoughts, and my morality.

Just an interesting tidbit. The new landlord of my love shack is super hot. About 5 foot 6, and thin athletic body. Single divorced mom. Probably late 30's. And she's probably at least twice as rich as me, based on what she divulged regarding the other units that she owns (in China, you can only buy your first property with 30% down payment, for the next property that you buy, the minimum down payment amount is something like 50%, and for the third unit, it's like 70%, etc. , and this is to prevent a real estate bubble. She said my apartment is the smallest place that she owns.).

A few nights ago, after I saw her place for the first time, we were texting quite a lot. It started with texting about specific details about the unit, and negotiating about rent and stuff like that. But then it somehow turned personal. She actually told me she wants to have another kid and is looking for Mr. Right. And then she said we should do lunch sometime. I'm like, WTF just happened? The next day, she started being formal again and only texting about the unit.

[QUOTE=Akibono;2487266]Flawlessly logical. You have to have enough money to play in this game. Being cheap can cost you in the end. So, what sounds like a mongers paradise is really dodging the eyes and ears of a privacy free society. How do people live under the control and watchful eyes of the authorities? I wonder if people will continue to tolerate this in the long run. I suppose if you never do anything against the law, it will not affect you, but I bristle at the way a government can control my actions, my thoughts, and my morality.[/QUOTE]Our freedoms are disappearing all the time. China is now installing facial recognition cameras everywhere. The government says that if citizens have nothing to hide, then we shouldn't give a shit about losing our privacy and civil liberties. I obviously have issues with this.

But if there were any pushback from Chinese citizens, it disappeared this year after the government took away all of our privacy due to the coronavirus, and it actually worked. China is now normal again, and the virus is now not even a bad memory but almost a forgotten memory. Even the Americans that live in Shanghai, that I talk to, all now agree that it's great to live in a communist country.

But this is obviously the view of one guy on the streets of Shanghai. Others have other views obviously.