German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[QUOTE=Frej Of Asgaard; 1343216]I would say that the difference is that with a bad session, you are 100% sure which girl gave it to you. In the case of STD's for most FKK guest the list of girls who could have given it is long. Basically it could be any girl within the last 2 weeks of detection.

If we write a bad report, then we do not for example write that one of the following 10 named girls gave me a bad session. That is very unfair to 9 of them.

Even if you have somehow been monogamous in an fkk club with only one girl and got a STD, then just tell the girl to go get treatment. After ended treatment she will be fine again (unless we are talking herpes).[/QUOTE]Why does the San Fernando valley porn industry go into lock down mode when it is discovered that one actor has HIV or something similar? They are tarnishing everyone has potentially having HIV and the industry does not come back from under cover until the culprit is found. Is that being unfair too?

There are similar stories from other country's porn making industries where when it was found there was an outbreak then all the fiming was done with condom including in some cases the blowjob too. The reason they do this is so that it is prevent the spread of such diseases. If we keep this as a taboo topic then it is all underground and no one will know and the disease will perpetuate. Just like no one talks about the pimps, even the girls do not want to, but the pimps are prevalent.

Armripta111's point was that let people decide for themselves when they see the girls. It is a forewarning and not an accusation. We are sensible adults here and so we should rely on that judgment.

Just an alternative thought to add balance to the discussion.

[QUOTE=Yakob; 1343222]If we keep this as a taboo topic then it is all underground and no one will know and the disease will perpetuate. Just like no one talks about the pimps, even the girls do not want to, but the pimps are prevalent.

Armripta111's point was that let people decide for themselves when they see the girls. It is a forewarning and not an accusation. We are sensible adults here and so we should rely on that judgment.

Just an alternative thought to add balance to the discussion.[/QUOTE]It will not only perpetuate but spread around, particularly in cases like herpes which have no specific cure.

Yes, it is like pimps, there are still men who believe when the girls say they have not one but there are likely only a handful of them all over the clubs who do not have someone who takes a share of their earnings.

Amripta111 in my opinion simply gave his point of view, ok maybe with the wrong words and I was not a fun of his tone either but he got the point and maybe that point was too sensible for this forum to discuss. I always accepted to live with my fears and not hiding them but accepting the risks. Tere is no sense in burying such topics in the deep of your coscience, these problems are there outside and talking about it can only help ourself and the others.

[QUOTE=CaptCabin; 1342666]A lot of senior members were very unhappy with crusade on exposing girls who may have std. I at one point did not agree but now I think I do as what is the difference between writing a negative report on a girl service and a negative report on her well being.

Anyways I do not want to judge the girls as I am also not a saint. I still plan to enjoy myself at fkk whatever it is. Better to leave this world bonking sweet young girls when you have the money rather than masturbrating in the shower and when you die your money goes to nephews whom you see once every year if your lucky.[/QUOTE]I think it is alos statistics related to numbers. In Frankfurt clubs there are more girls and more mongers who are not regulars and therefore the odds tihat someone sick is around are higher than in NRW clubs. Add to that that from a cleanliness point of view, clubs I. Frankfurt are not the top, particularly Oase where I have always been as much circumspect as possible checking the girls.

However, I still remain of my opinion, it is not a question of crusade or not but of relevant information that maybe helpful to some of us.

[QUOTE=Indi Companion; 1343456]I think it is alos statistics related to numbers. In Frankfurt clubs there are more girls and more mongers who are not regulars and therefore the odds tihat someone sick is around are higher than in NRW clubs. Add to that that from a cleanliness point of view, clubs I. Frankfurt are not the top, particularly Oase where I have always been as much circumspect as possible checking the girls.

However, I still remain of my opinion, it is not a question of crusade or not but of relevant information that maybe helpful to some of us.[/QUOTE]May I respectfully ask you to let me (us) know the usefulness to "alert" ISG members to the fact that, wherever they go, they can catch STds, if they do not cover? Do you really believe that they don't know that already? And naming girls and places is absolutely useless, since, STDs can be had absolutely anywhere, even in places where so called hygiene and controls are the best.

It is not that one does want to hide anything, it is just that when there is nothing new or worth reporting, better not to report.

And to believe that by making those discussions public (BTW, should be in the specific thread) , one does reduce their spread is at best laughable.

STds, like pimps, are a fact of the life of mongers (and WGs). Writing pages on the topic is a waste of time, until the day someone can

Seriously propose a solution to eradicate them. Not in the near future, I am afraid. IMHO.

(Ah well, yes, the feminists have a solutionL: prohibiting all sexual contacts between males and females.)

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1343614]May I respectfully ask you to let me (us) know the usefulness to "alert" ISG members to the fact that, wherever they go, they can catch STds, if they do not cover? Do you really believe that they don't know that already? And naming girls and places is absolutely useless, since, STDs can be had absolutely anywhere, even in places where so called hygiene and controls are the best.

It is not that one does want to hide anything, it is just that when there is nothing new or worth reporting, better not to report.

And to believe that by making those discussions public (BTW, should be in the specific thread) , one does reduce their spread is at best laughable.

STds, like pimps, are a fact of the life of mongers (and WGs). Writing pages on the topic is a waste of time, until the day someone can

Seriously propose a solution to eradicate them. Not in the near future, I am afraid. IMHO.

(Ah well, yes, the feminists have a solutionL: prohibiting all sexual contacts between males and females.) [/QUOTE]Dear Dedalus, I am sure that you are born already knowing everything about girls, clubs and STDs but you should know that there are many who start this hobby and do not even think about STDs, say even less about how they can catch it.

I still have the impression that many want to hide this problem, for me it is the same and as you ask I will no longer write about it. Not even here in this thread where many also senior members said to move the discussion.

Up to you.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1343614]STds, like pimps, are a fact of the life of mongers (and WGs). Writing pages on the topic is a waste of time, until the day someone can[/QUOTE]With all due respect, I don't think STDs have to be a "fact of life". Care can be taken to prevent their spread. Clubs have an implicit duty to ensure their environment is safe for the WGs and the customers. This includes screening WGs for STDs and making sure facilities are clean. Not only does this make good business sense for the clubs, it is the right thing to do! If a fellow monger strongly suspects that a girl has an STD, he should report this to the club. The club, in turn, should verify this and, if true, act on this information immediately by removing the girl. I hope Oase and other clubs take the necessary steps to prevent STDs! FKKs are a good thing and a priviledge, all participants (especially the clubs) have a important role in keeping it safe and fun. IMHO. JJ.

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1343614]May I respectfully ask you to let me (us) know the usefulness to "alert" ISG members to the fact that, wherever they go, they can catch STds, if they do not cover? Do you really believe that they don't know that already?

It is not that one does want to hide anything, it is just that when there is nothing new or worth reporting, better not to report.

And to believe that by making those discussions public (BTW, should be in the specific thread) , one does reduce their spread is at best laughable.

STds, like pimps, are a fact of the life of mongers (and WGs). Writing pages on the topic is a waste of time, until the day someone can[/QUOTE]Yes, I agree that everyone is aware that STD is a risk of visiting these clubs. But, I don't think everyone is aware of the magnitude of the risk.

Before I read Mr. Nordboer's and Mr. Captain Cabin's posts, I for one thought that if I always wore a condom during sex that I would probably be ok getting BBBJs. I thought that the risk associated with BBBJs was really low. Now that we have two individuals reporting they used condoms 100% of the time during sex who got infected with Herpes within a relatively close period of time. That's some scary sh*t! Yes, these guys were getting BBBJ's but I was under the impression that while transmission of herpes was possible this way, that it was extremely unlikely. Lots of web sites out there indicate that HSV2 doesn't like to live upstairs (I. E. In the mouth) , that it rather "prefers" to live downstairs.

Of course, we don't have any good data about the probability of infection with exposure to infected individuals because scientists can't run the type of experiments necessary to ascertain this type of data. That is, the scientists can't very well take 1, 000 uninfected people and ask them to have sex with 1, 000 infected people and then measure how many people got infected. Thus, the methodologies used (mostly survey data after the fact with no control group) don't yield reliably conclusive data.

Here's what we do have. On the one hand, we've got a ton of web sites out there that proclaim that Herpes infection is extremely easy, even when wearing a condom. These web sites sound like you'll get infected if you even look at someone who is infected (yes I am exaggerating a bit here). I can only assume that these web sites are targeted at trying to scare teenagers straight. I know that the risk can't be all that high because if that were true, then I would have already been infected with all the working girls I've been with. I can affirm that I get tested periodically, and that I've never caught an STD. Just in the past 12 months, I've spent a considerable amount of time with over 50 working girls.

Plus, we've got folks like Hessen Bub who reports that he's never caught anything in the past 10 years that he's been getting BBBJ's. Reports like Hessen Bub's make me think that the chance of catching something is quite low if you always wear a condom during sex and stick to BBBJ's.

So now, I am at a crossroads. Do I give up BBBJ's? Maybe these two individuals caught Herpes during sex with a condom (through skin to skin contact) or maybe they caught it getting BBBJ's? I just don't know.

I for one would be grateful for more information that would help us decide the degree of risk associated with these activities. While I wholeheartedly agree that publishing names of specific girls is pointless and fruitless, I would encourage more information sharing to help us make more informed decisions about the risks we face here.

For many of us, these activities border on an "addiction." So, if I need to change my behaviors, it'll probably take some serious beating on me with some scary shit to scare me down the proper path. I thought I knew what the risk level was here (really low) , but now I am questioning that conclusion given these two individual reports from two different members who are reporting Herpes infection after wearing a condom 100% of the time during sex.

Heck, if anyone has any information they want to share with me confidentially that they don't feel like sharing on the public board, please feel free to PM me. I am really struggling with this now that I've read these two reports of herpes infection because my health is super important to me and I don't want to screw that up.

[QUOTE=Ultrahappy; 1343721]Here's what we do have. On the one hand, we've got a ton of web sites out there that proclaim that Herpes infection is extremely easy, even when wearing a condom. These web sites sound like you'll get infected if you even look at someone who is infected (yes I am exaggerating a bit here). I can only assume that these web sites are targeted at trying to scare teenagers straight. I know that the risk can't be all that high because if that were true, then I would have already been infected with all the working girls I've been with. I can affirm that I get tested periodically, and that I've never caught an STD. Just in the past 12 months, I've spent a considerable amount of time with over 50 working girls.

Plus, we've got folks like Hessen Bub who reports that he's never caught anything in the past 10 years that he's been getting BBBJ's. Reports like Hessen Bub's make me think that the chance of catching something is quite low if you always wear a condom during sex and stick to BBBJ's.

So now, I am at a crossroads. Do I give up BBBJ's? Maybe these two individuals caught Herpes during sex with a condom (through skin to skin contact) or maybe they caught it getting BBBJ's? I just don't know.

I for one would be grateful for more information that would help us decide the degree of risk associated with these activities. While I wholeheartedly agree that publishing names of specific girls is pointless and fruitless, I would encourage more information sharing to help us make more informed decisions about the risks we face here.[/QUOTE]Ultra not that I am criticizing you but I think you are a little bias on your thinking (perhaps you like this acitivity too much too give it up like me LOL). Who can blame you I is an addiction.

You were lucky you haven't caught anything YET. I am unlucky. Prostitution and paid sex is like Russian roulette. The odds of getting stg or hiv (yes it can heppen in fkk even if you wear a condom as you have to consider the scenario of condom breakge or leak. Well this is what the doctor told me anywayz). But the math is simple. The more girls you go with and this girls see tons of men from western to developing countries. And the more frequent you indulge in this hobby mathematically your ODDS INCREASES. This is a fact. Think about it without being bias.

I ask my doctor the question "I know people who have indulge in this hobby for a 10 or 15 years and has not caugght anything". My doctors reply was "RUbbbish it is either he is lying, he doesn't know he has something, he does not care or he is EXTREMELY lucky (not to say HB is lying or anything but this is my doctors word). But seriously ultra and other mongers think about the math. You can even do some basic probability. Put it this way, I know I have herpes same goes with noerdboer same goes with syzgies (correct me if I am wrong he got chalmydia at one point refer to oase thread) and this people have got STD and we still frequent the club. WHY? Because we already have it. So now do your math. I don't mean to scare you but look at things realisticaly.

"publishing names of specific girls is pointless and fruitless". At this point to you it is useless but when you get it you probably would rethink your statement. I for one would. Now I do worry a lot eventhough herpes does not kill me but the doctor gave some really bad scenario for me. Imagine if I have cancer (well I am not young) and I need to go fo chemotheraphy and during that there is an outbreak of herpes on me it would not look pretty (funny doctor even told me he has seen a patient penis nearly cut into half by his herpes. I think he was joking. But well came you not blame me for being a bit scared). So you think a lot when the doctors inform you on such scenario. Now I don care about publishing names anymore but to other men who just got married or have a girl you love or sumthing like that please be very very vigilant and think about the risk.

" I would encourage more information sharing to help us make more informed decisions about the risks we face here.". What do you mean by this? What information do you request us to share?

"Heck, if anyone has any information they want to share with me confidentially that they don't feel like sharing on the public board, please feel free to PM me. I am really struggling with this now that I've read these two reports of herpes infection because my health is super important to me and I don't want to screw that up."- I think this is very unfair as you ask members to share confidential info with you regarding health concern. Then I might as well not share my info with others and then what would happen we would all lose. Sharing helps us all.

[QUOTE=Dreams; 1343614]May I respectfully ask you to let me (us) know the usefulness to "alert" ISG members to the fact that, wherever they go, they can catch STds, if they do not cover? Do you really believe that they don't know that already? And naming girls and places is absolutely useless, since, STDs can be had absolutely anywhere, even in places where so called hygiene and controls are the best.

And to believe that by making those discussions public (BTW, should be in the specific thread) , one does reduce their spread is at best laughable.

STds, like pimps, are a fact of the life of mongers (and WGs). Writing pages on the topic is a waste of time, until the day someone can[/QUOTE]I totally agree with you. I shall continue to visit fkk. I am glad we share the same activity and who knows we might have the same favourite girl. STD is common in paid sex so don't waste your time worrying about it.

[QUOTE=Indi Companion; 1343618]Dear Dedalus, I am sure that you are born already knowing everything about girls, clubs and STDs but you should know that there are many who start this hobby and do not even think about STDs, say even less about how they can catch it.

I still have the impression that many want to hide this problem, for me it is the same and as you ask I will no longer write about it. Not even here in this thread where many also senior members said to move the discussion.

Up to you.[/QUOTE]Just to respect Dedalus, who has, so far, not interjected in this discussion.

[QUOTE=JJForum61;1343650]With all due respect, I don't think STDs have to be a "fact of life". Care can be taken to prevent their spread. Clubs have an implicit duty to ensure their environment is safe for the WGs and the customers. This includes screening WGs for STDs and making sure facilities are clean. Not only does this make good business sense for the clubs, it is the right thing to do! If a fellow monger strongly suspects that a girl has an STD, he should report this to the club. The club, in turn, should verify this and, if true, act on this information immediately by removing the girl. I hope Oase and other clubs take the necessary steps to prevent STDs! FKKs are a good thing and a priviledge, all participants (especially the clubs) have a important role in keeping it safe and fun. IMHO. JJ.[/QUOTE]No disagreement with you there. My point is, even in the best managed clubs, the risk exists. A feeling of false security is not helping. Each one should know the risks and take his decision based on his own risk-benefit analysis, which is highly variable. (An old unmarried guy is less likley to be concerned than a young married one)

And I would like to know what " a strong suspicion of STD" means. Would you like to be reported to your boss by a colleague who "suspects" of, say, unethical practice?". Slippery slope IMHO.

Stick to the fat working girls, they're much safer than the young hotties who are going back and forth to the room. Also avoid girls with hairy vagina's, that's camouflage for herpes anyday. Seriously though, std's are a risk anytime you bed someone new. Doesn't matter if its a working girl or your buddy's sister, everything comes with a risk. Have any of you guys taken a look at the partytreff section in the last year or two? Tons and tons of posts and links to bareback events. Why does it take a couple of posts here to rile you all up when there's hundreds of comments a thread over about barebacking? Here's a link to that section, go make those guys regret doing bareback for a few days. [url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/forumdisplay.php?762-Germany-Partytreff-Clubs[/url]

Sorry to have beaten the odds and not having caught anything in 12 years of mongering and thousands of BBBJ. Go ask a different doc and you'll get a different opinion.

Just one thing: No club in Hessen requires the girls to have regular medical check-ups. The clubs provide the platform, girls & boys are guests, so no obligation for neither of them.

If you are afraid and don't want to take any risk when clubbing: Avoid DFK, chose CBJ and covered sex.

If you drive on German highways and you don't want to take the risk, drive 100km / h on the right lane. I love to go 240km / h on the left lane.

Life's a risk and will lead to death.

HB

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1344051]Sorry to have beaten the odds and not having caught anything in 12 years of mongering and thousands of BBBJ. Go ask a different doc and you'll get a different opinion.

Just one thing: No club in Hessen requires the girls to have regular medical check-ups. The clubs provide the platform, girls & boys are guests, so no obligation for neither of them.

If you are afraid and don't want to take any risk when clubbing: Avoid DFK, chose CBJ and covered sex.

If you drive on German highways and you don't want to take the risk, drive 100km / h on the right lane. I love to go 240km / h on the left lane.

Life's a risk and will lead to death.

HB[/QUOTE]Amen. Hopefully this should serve as a conclusion.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1343839]My point is, even in the best managed clubs, the risk exists.[/QUOTE]Yes, I think that is known. You could get an STD even if you don't monger (e. G, from a blood transfusion). Risk to life exists everywhere. That is not the point. One could get into a car accident tomorrow and die or get injured, but that doesn't mean people should stop wearing their seat belt to mitigate the risk. My point is to take all the necessary steps to mitigate the spread / risk of STDs.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1343839](An old unmarried guy is less likely to be concerned than a young married one)[/QUOTE]With all due respect, STDs have nothing to do with marriage. You could spread select STDs if there is direct contact with infected skin.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1343839]And I would like to know what " a strong suspicion of STD" means.[/QUOTE]Clarification. If a monger gets positively tested with an STD and suspects it is from a specific WG he visited. One cannot visually inspect or hypothesize on who has an STD. Yeah, I get that!

[QUOTE=Dreams;1343839]Would you like to be reported to your boss by a colleague who "suspects"[/QUOTE]Comparing apples and oranges. My job doesn't entail sleeping with hot chicks all day (although I wish it did, LOL). Not so in FKK, where there is a lot of fucking going on.

[QUOTE=Dreams;1343839]"suspects", say, of unethical practice?". Slippery slope IMHO.[/QUOTE]Like I said, if a monger gets positively tested for an STD and suspects he got it from a WG, it is *not* unethical for him to let the club know that he suspects it is from a particular WG. In fact, maybe the WG does not know that she is a carrier of an STD and it would help her to get tested and treated / cured immediately. It would mitigate the further spread of the STD inside and outside the club. I don't see how that is unethical. IMHO.