Kyiv

late night typing until 3am just to get it all out before I forget the juicier details. Am editing typos now. Cheers

PS... pics (of my dyevs) now available in the pics section ... and I am kinda hoping the stories dont contain warts!

Ham Bloke:

I agree with you in principal that $100 should be target price in RP. However achieving this price isn't always possible. In fact, in an effort to do so, on one night I actually STRUCK OUT at RP. Now that takes talent... :)

To exercise my point... I went to RP twice last week and had two totally different experiences.

On Sunday night many girls available for $100. I made a quick selection that was very satisfactory. High quality girl. Great attitude. Great vibe. Great sex all night long. Another wonderful case of a dynamo girl that just wants to keep fucking and won't let you sleep after the initial rounds. A very good investment.

On Monday night the place was full of attractive girls, but they were very adamant about minimum price being $150... in fact most insisted on $200+.

It wasn't a matter of being resilient or waiting it out. I did wait it out. I was resilient... even charming at times. However a common answer was "I only go for $200" or even a short and snotty "$200 take it or leave it". Some girls were even downright rude when I said I'd never pay that much, simply turning away and motioning for me to go away... a classic brush off. Not only will I never pay $200 at RP, I'll definitely never go with a rude pro.

It also wasn't a matter of too much competition. There were about 10 guys and 40 girls there, about half of the 10 guys already occupied and in fact appeared to be local. So 35 girls were competing for 5 guys and still not budging in price.

In fact, on that Monday night, it got late and I got bored and I simply left alone, hitting up 2 girls in a last gasp effort with an offer of $100 for 3 hours at about 4am but still getting blown off. So no, $100 for a decent girl (not to mention the elusive 9) isn't always possible. As tired and annoyed as I was, I wasn't going to pay more since I really wouldn't have gotten much out of it. Instead I saved my energy for the clubs on Tuesday night. Energy that I would need in abundance. More on that later.

As for quality of girl at RP it was genuinely high, however I did not see many 9s and certainly no 10s at RP. I saw maybe 2 or 3 girls I'd give a 9 rating to in 2 days at RP. And this was in that low light pros love... in natural they were most likely in fact 8s. Having a great body doesn't make a girl a 9 in my book. Most Ukrainian pros of any caliber have a great body. As for the few 9s, my mate RM chatted up one of the rare 9s and she wanted $300. Laughable. RM, in keeping with the WSG spirit, blew her off unceremoniously. I wish he'd blown a massive load all over her smug face, but not at that price tag.

Recently got back from a 5 day excursion to Kiev. I met up with Roger Mellie, a great mate and fellow hedonist. His report is a post or two back, detailing his experiences and ours together. It’s great reading to get an idea of what it’s like in Kiev during these turbulent times.

Going out with RM was great, not only to he share taking the initiative and leading the charge on numerous occasions, he also provided excellent wingman support in my endeavours. And failing to score but still having a mate to drink and carouse with took any measure of bitterness out of the cold 4am Kiev air. If you can find a WSG member to prowl with you during your excursions I suggest you do so. We hooked up with yet another WSGer I knew from Odessa for one night and he was a good mate and we all had fun.


Although RM correctly reports that we received more rejections than we are used to... and that from relatively average birds... we still established contact quickly and fairly effectively. We somehow didn't manage to put the ball between the goal posts as often as we may have been expecting and are accustomed to, but I still did go 2 for 4 and attribute our lack of success to an odd anti-sexual atmosphere in the air (thanks Yushenko), some tactical errors on my part (hitting up too many girls in one night in plain sight of everyone) and the fortunes of freebie hunting, which sometimes deliver a night of bliss and just as often leave you alone and wondering what went wrong.. Perhaps our expectations were too high or our tactics inappropriate in these turbulent times, however I enjoyed every trip to 111 immensely... at the very least there was plenty of flirting to be done. Here are some reports from the clubs…

Club 111 on a Thursday…

“My worst night”

After checking in and getting set up, we went to the internet café and did some “dyev admin”, trying to set up dates, get a few pro numbers etc. This would be a daily ritual and did pan out to a certain extent as we both collected numerous telephone numbers and met a few girls. I didn’t actually screw any of them but did get some kissing and some titty action… not bad considering I put very little effort or money into it and didn’t meet any of them for more than an hour or two. I did meet several girls I’d like to see again but did not have time to actively pursue during this trip… but contact was established, making stage 2 that much easier when I return.

We went to 111, which RM had scored well in before and our fears were confirmed as we saw the club only partially full on an otherwise top clubbing night. This would remain true throughout our stay, no club ever truly filled up or got more than about 1/2 full at best.

Located on the same premises of Hotel Lubid, it remains one of Kiev's premier expat locations for dyev hunting. Moreover, it was almost the only place that showed at least decent action every night of the week (and we tried a lot of places) and was seemingly revolution-proof... and even more interestingly, it was the only club the received universally positive reviews from the more than a dozen of girls we met, including those mentioned in his report ... Mick Jagger and the Gypsy might have been there for the first time, but everybody else from Tanya Big Tits, to the Armenian, the Little One and even my jealous RP pro happily frequented the location. So it seems to draw both slutz and respectable birds as well... Combine this with relatively affordable (22-28 Grivna) well-proportioned cocktails, late opening hours, a rotating bar and decent danceable music and we have a lovely combination

At 111 we drank Cosmopolitans… I don’t know why really, but it is an easy to drink cocktail and fairly light on the stomach… I actually usually enjoy the trendier mojitos and caipirinhias, however these pack to much juice to drink over the course of a night. I stuck to Cosmopolitans, Vodka-Red Bull (Burn actually), Baileys, Mojitos and beer for most of the trip.

I can’t remember the chain of events in perfect detail, but I do remember spotting Spikey Blonde staring at me as soon as we were at the bar. RM actually commented on it as it was really obvious, like some weird death stare or like she was trying to perform the Jedi Mind Trick on me. In a way, it was kind of creepy… but I thought she was cute, so I stared back. When making eye contact with Russian chicks (yeah I know Ukrainians aren’t Russians…whatever) I like to maintain it as long as possible. Seems to me they are used to making guys look away when they stare (and they do love to stare) but if you hold your own you express the kind of confidence they universally adore. Spikey Blonde is kind of a punk girl with a cute face and, as I would discover a few days later, a great body and a demon in the sack. Within 5 minutes she came over to me and more or less latched on to me. It actually made me a bit uncomfortable, as she was cute and everything but certainly no bombshell and the night was young. She kept saying we should go to Chaikovsky as it was better tonight. I told her maybe I’d see her there and blew her off politely. I was hoping… and planning really.. on something else.

After a few moments we spotted some cute teens and made our move. I spoke to one, somewhat of a Christina Ricci look-alike but lacking the extra pounds and soon we had met all 5 or 6. It looked promising… some subtle hand on knee action that met with satisfaction etc… but then after about 1 hour they were gone… all of a sudden they packed up their things and left, only leaving behind the ugliest of the two. With these two in tow we went to Chaikovsky, a mid-sized bi-level club in the center of town. It was ok at best, and subsequent info from other girls would confirm that Chaikovsky was once very good but has since gone to the dogs.

Speaking of, our dogs were at the bar drinking on our account and I consulted briefly with RM before proposing to the girls that we return to the apartment for drinks. The uglier one (which I was now hitting on) looked confused until the birthday girl told me defiantly “we are not that kind of girl”. What does that mean, she has a penis?

Thoroughly annoyed I told her she “should go dance.. alone” and shooed them off. They scurried away. After that exchange I quickly realized the error in my actions, as the birthday teens from earlier than night, who had my number, certainly would get a report from the ugly birthday girl and avoid us. Which they did. No call back.

We returned to 111 and I collected a number from the girlfriend of a girl I liked, but despite an exchange of SMSs, it didn’t pan out. Commo problems. Someone called me and wanted to meet me the next day, but I couldn’t figure out who it was and the meeting never materialized. Maybe it was her, who knows.

Thursday night ended unceremoniously as RM and I returned to our abode empty-handed and wondering where we went wrong.

Mick and the Gypsy at 111 (Friday):

“You can’t always get what you want...but sometimes you might just get what you need...”

After Thursday night’s relative failure, we found ourselves at 111 again and although I don't remember the exact course of events I do remember that we were eyeing two Ro-looking birds RM has accurately described as a female Mick Jagger and a Gypsy. We kept checking them out during the course of the night as they got loaded on cocktails and danced up a storm. Turns out Mick is a professional dancer, as her body would later prove. After our initial targets suddenly had local boyfriends, we decided to explore other options. Mick kept eyeing me as she danced and smiling at me with that big fleshy Mick Jagger grin so when she came by the bar I reached out and grabbed her and we began talking in Russian... turns out she and her friend are from Donetsk originally but now living in Kiev.

RM and I held a brief tactical meeting and concluded that we should take what we could get and get out of the club with these girls as quickly as possible before they:

a) sober up
b) or get too drunk to walk
c) discover new found morality in these patriotic times.

Maybe being from Yanukovich's bastion of neo-Russian conservatism helped, but most of all it was RM that led the way now, as after some dancing with Mick I returned to the table to find RM with his tongue down Gypsy's throat and his hand on her tit. Nice. Mick was shocked at her friend's lewd behavior, but I was already collecting our coats before she knew what was happening. Quickly we scurried them into the cab and zoomed home, even as I heard them argue amongst one another if they should do this. Gypsy was all over RM though and Mick had little choice to follow suit. Nor did we really ever allow them to pursue any other options. We just kept the momentum moving towards our pad.

After a brief drink in our apartment, Gypsy was all over RM and they disappeared to go bone and I went to work on Mick. Mick turned out to be tougher than I thought though, and I had to resort to…god forbid… romance to get her in the sack, whispering sweet nothings into her ear and corny crap like “ya hochu tebya sechas, zavtra i poslezavtra…”

And posle-posle zavtra, what’s then?

But I managed to get her into the bedroom and the self-proclaimed “bely neger” soon succumbed to my octopus tactic and once I got some tongue on her tit she was off like a rocket and turned out to be an incredible fuck… a dance instructor, she was incredibly limber, easily putting her legs up on my shoulders or even up around her head as I ruthlessly rodded her trimmed twat… her Mick Jagger lips were put to good use too, as she could suck like a Hoover vacuum cleaner… plenty of those slobbering and sucking noises I so enjoy. I finished by fucking her from behind and then flipping her around and straddling her face while shoving my cock down her throat as best I could before cumming and letting her suck me dry. It was a massive build up too, so she did indeed get her RDA of protein. We slept soon after doing the nasty.

Mick got up early and after writing down her mobile number, went to collect a nearly comatose Gypsy… eventually we all were up and kicked out the girls, noting that they had not asked for taxi money… a rarity in FSU.

RM and had a good laugh discussing the night’s events and returned to bed in an attempt to score some elusive sleep… RM had been noticeably more relaxed early in the trip, having broken the seal with his regular girl, the cute and delightfully innocent Tanya. She had such a positive personality and was so obviously excited to see RM that she was getting at least as much out of it as he was. Now I had at least unloaded and could look towards the weekend with vain optimism.

I'll arrive in Kiev Wednesday. Is anyone else going to be there and want to meet?

111 report 3 (tuesday):
“my best night”

saturday had been a fun night with lots of female contact as detailed in rm’s report, lots of dancing and flirting, but rather unsatisfying as i again went home alone. i am sure that i committed numerous tactical errors, but i wasn’t really employing any tactic beyond the hand grenade in the fishbowl technicque. it should have worked too, and spikey blonde and i, who really should have been fucking each other since day 1, yet again failed to connect as she got tangled up with an old girlfriend and i got tired of waiting after 10 minutes.

sunday i elected for the rp option and did very well…

monday i employed the octopus tactic on a german speaking dyev from the internet and at least got some good macking and tit-groping in while rm, natali 19 and old man ukraine watched tv in the next room before kicking her out to meet sweet sveta and get a little farther with her. i got some tit off of her and set her up for the next day, as there was no point in going for the score on this night. after that rm had an enjoyable date with two cuties, the little one and moscow model, as detailed in his report. we then went to rp, where i failed to score at rp due to price conflicts, as i detailed in a previous report. rm managed to find a über-suka, whose pleasant demeanor went suddenly sour as soon as she was back in the apartment.

so it was tuesday, my last day in country, and i was determined to get laid... but still unwilling to emply the nuclear option for a second time. i had completely overscheduled tuesday, with 5 appointments and 2 girls on call. considering the fact that most girls worked during the day, the evening schedule would probably not allow me to see more than two or three.

my initial appointment was at 2 with olia the virgin. rm had made little progress on this basket case earlier, but i thought i would make one last ditch effort before writing her off. her appearance certainly wasn’t worth the effort we made, but she was a virgin and did seem interested in losing it, so i thought i’d test the waters. we met at shato, a bar with an in house brewery serving decent beer. normally a good place to go, its location in the center of town however meant it was surrounded by the tent people chanting slogans and living like rats celebrating their revolution. by now i was very annoyed by this pathetic excuse for a revolution. already kiev +5 and i still hadn’t seen a single tank let alone heard a shot fired in anger. it wasn’t that i really wanted a bloodbath during my mongering trip or anything, but the novelty of peaceful protestors blockading the entire main drag kreshatik had definitely worn off by day 3 and was now a mere annoyance. even worse, the orange-clad protestors were starting to get a bit surly and were occasionally stopping people at the doors of buildings.. including my internet café… to “check for spies”. i think they’ve been watching too much tv. anyway, i made sure to wear my orange hilfiger t-shirt every day in a declaration of faux allegiance.

soon after meeting olia i realized it was a waste of time. i had originally planned to get her back to the apartment and employ the octopus tactic, with the schizo tactic as a reserve. but after ten minutes i realized this girl was about as sexual as a lump of coal and i quickly drank my beer and got ready to go. just to salvage something from the encounter though, i did some sweet talking and at least got some kissing and hand holding. i also informed her that her backwater views on sexuality could ruin her life, as if she didn’t at least try out some men she’d never even know what she likes in a man. ridiculously naïve and innocent, olia the virgin didn’t get laid during our stay, but she did manage to kiss two foreign guys in the course of 2 or three days.. i’m sure she is filling her diary with pathetic prose right now… and i am equally sure that the precious virginity that she has been saving up for 20 years now will fall unceremoniously in 2005. who will it be? it won’t be me.

i then quickly jetted out to see mick, who lived out by minskaya metro. we met at a decent bar/restaurant called limpopo, which had a latin theme. nothing special, but ok. not wanting to waste time, i suggested we go back to my apartment because i wanted to be alone with her. i really only wanted an opportunity to get some pics and a quick shag in, but she informed me that she was on the rag.

check please!

so i jetted back to town and rested for an hour before meeting sweet sveta, the 20ish secretary girlfriend of rm’s psycho victoria, who truly is psycho. in fact, the night before while eating at maracon with victoria and sveta, victoria went off on a tirade about nazis and the occult in the third reich and after i said i was a history buff she started quizzing me on the armament of the p-51d mustang fighter place from world war ii. what a wacko! still has a cute face and a nice little pooper though, so i forgive her.

anyway, sveta comes over and i maneuver her on to the couch, realizing i only have about a 2 hour window of opportunity to score before she has to go home to her grandmother. so i give her some bailey’s and employ the octopus tactic, using all 8 tentacles so that she can’t defend herself. she proves reluctant though, and i switch to the schizo tactic… paraphrased as follows:

“are you afraid of me?”

“a little”

“why?”

“i don’t know”

“you know, sometimes when i look at you i see a little girl, and sometimes i see a woman”.

“what do you see now?”

“i see a scared little girl”

“now i am embarrassed and feel stupid”

“don’t be”

“i’m cold”

“we can go in the jacuzzi”…

“ok…”

“now are you a girl or a woman?”

“i’m a woman”

once in the jacuzzi, which by some “miracle” was already running, a tit fondle and a digit in her moist pussy induced the ever popular “ya hochu tebya” and it was off to the races. not wanting to disappoint her in her first jacuzzi encounter and first poke with a foreigner, i gave her the full program and she went off.. i really enjoyed watching her eyes roll back into her head and listening to her moan incomprehensible phrases in russian… a most satisfying poke.

a brief dip in the jacuzzi and i kick her out back to grandma, and call up the little one, who seemed so eager the night previous. regrettably the little one is at home and her mom won’t let her out… she says had she known it was my last night out we could have met somehow. perhaps a tactical error on my part, but i didn’t know how long the sveta encounter would last. so we exchange a few nice words on the phone before i redress to go to 111.

i briefly considered going to rp which has cheap entrance on tuesday night, meaning loads of dyevs, but instead elected to go to 111, which had gotten rave reviews from rm.

in the meantime rm had been texting me that he was making progress with tanya big tits, the sexy chick we had met at some provincial disco two days previous. on that fateful saturday, we had actually met adriana little tits first, whom i chatted up and figured i had a good chance with… young, no tits, average face, cheap clothes…what could go wrong? unfortunately adriana seemed to know everybody in the club and was uninterested in some foreign guy, so she unceremoniously rejected me, even as rm made headway with tanya big tits.

anyway on this particular tuesday night, we agree that if rm is making progress he has the flat to himself for awhile and i am going to 111.

at 111 i am instantly hit on by a girl. a cute face and good body, she somehow annoys me though and although i maintain some interest and note her as an emergency option, i don’t commit, as the night is young. she has really latched on though. thankfully spikey blonde shows up. as she walks by i reach out and grab her, we hit it off instantly. she is obviously very interested. at some point i am standing next to the bar eyeing a redhead across the way straddled on either side by annoying girl and spikey blonde when annoying girl asks me:

“do you have any plans tonight?”

i say “no, do you?”

she says “i don’t… but i’m hoping to make some”

at that point spikey blonde asks me to help her with her zipper, warning me to be “gentle”, since she “isn’t wearing any underwear.”

i sense the evening has taken a turn for the better.

annoying girl asks me if i am going to make her fight with spikey blonde for me and i tell annoying girl that i want to talk to spikey blonde. annoying girl reminds me that she is waiting just in case i change my mind. damn, the poor girl must have been really desperate for a fuck!

i observe the club action and note that nearly all of the expats there are getting way too drunk to score. i think they might have had a chance, but now they barely able to stand, including 3 french guys who end up crawling up the stairs.

there are still some cute chicks available, but i am totally into spikey blonde now, she is a lot of fun and really a good flirt. i have long since made my decision. several drinks later we leave the club, stopping at the supermarket to get some seafood and drinks and stopping at her apartment to pick up her school bags for the next morning.

back at the pad, we cook a huge meal and literally destroy the kitchen, the cleaning lady will hate me. spikey blonde shows me some pictures of her as a teen model in odessa, she used to have long brown hair. she looked damn good. i maneuver spikey blonde towards the bedroom, as i am getting tired and want to still give a good performance, she briefly gets cold feet but quickly succumbs to my (very genuine) affection.

spikey blonde turns out to be an amazing fuck, i really should have tapped that earlier. her pussy is shaved absolutely bare and after some initial tightness getting in, she became wetter than any girl i’ve ever had recently, actually ever if memory serves. after a few minutes of poking there was literally a huge wet spot on the bed and the juices were flowing down her legs with such intensity that i initially thought she had just gotten her period. but no, it is merely pussy juice.. like a liter of it! she is quite vocal and tells me to hurry up, she is coming too often and it is too intense. i should have recognized the chemistry that existed between us since day 1 and went for it earlier. oh well. i end up finsihing in her mouth, which has become somewhat of a kiev tradition.

finally sometime in the morning we stop boning. regreattbly tanya big tits is gone already, but rm is there with a coy smile on his face. at first spikey blonde is shy about seeing rm, but i convince her it is all ok.

shortly thereafter, we all go downstairs together and part company, rm and i head to the airport.

in retrospect, i am sure that we missed a lot of opportunities and commited some tactical errors. nonetheless, i had a great time and despite the annoying revolution, still managed to enjoy kiev nightlife to its fullest. i’ll be back soon enough, but first i am going to wait out the political situation.

if you’ve got kiev on your schedule in the near future, the airports are still open and so are the clubs. things are slow right now, there is no denying it. the girls seem quite cautious as well, and the worry of politics isn’t exactly an aphrodisiac, but with some work and luck you’ll still get where you want to go. and if not, you can just pay for it…

I've got a couple of PMs asking about wingmen - is it better with or without etc ... I guess it depends entirely on your wingman. Personally I prefer hanging out in bars and working that angle, and to do that is easier if you are with someone. Hanging out in bar solo is like having "desperado" tattooed on your forehead. But as a pair it works much better.

Skank and I worked particular well together. We have teamed up a couple of times in Moscow in the past for single evenings - always with good results, but this was the first major double bill. There are probably 3 main reasons for the successful partnership.
(1) we have different tastes in women. He prefers the petite look, and has a tendency to end up with brunettes or redheads. He also has no issues with curly hair. I prefer the tall blonde look and dont do curly hair - straight blonde hair all the way for me.
(2) we offer something different to women. This way they are going to be clear about what guy they want (Shy Olga was a bit confused but that is the exception). Skank is more the youthful trendy look while I am more the suit look. The birds we end up in Moscow as a result as for him typically 18-22, young and living at home whereas mine are typically 22-27, with their own car and apartment.
(3) we have the same perspective on mongering. We dont try and compete for the same chicks. Both of us prefer to hang out in bars and pick up freebies and show them a genuinely good time, with only the rare foray into the p4p world. There is no point going mongering with a guy who wants to be at river palace or phoning GIA every night if you want to be at 111 Cocktail bar.

I'll be in Ukraine on Business next week and for part of Jan. I'd love to hook up with other mongers in Ukraine. PM me privately

Toronto Guy

I was working in Kiev last week and due to the current political instability, many ATM machines and also shop retailers/restaurants and hotels would not accept foreign credit cards as payment.

Even half way through my stay, my hotel would not accept credit card payment. So do check with the retailer/shop before you make a purchase. The ATM in Raiffeisen Bank near Zhylians'ka 43 just off Independence Square would allow me to withdraw cash.


One of the reasons for this is that the national bank system will not pay retailers any credit card payments for 28 days. This is to help stabilise the economy.

Cheers Tony70

Moscow vs. Kiev

The inevitable (eternal) question.

Maybe it is a inane comparison as yes, they are both two completely different cities that defy comparison… and yes, it is like comparing apples and oranges… Moscow is a world-class chew-you-up-and-spit-you-out Megapolis… Kiev an overgrown yet grotesquely pleasant village.

Yet despite the fact that comparing them inevitably polarizes the respective Kiev and Moscow boards into entertaining bouts of futile monger patriotism in the names of lands they require a visa just to be allowed to visit, we do love comparing them, because many a much-anticipated mongering trip boils down to that provocative question: “do I go to Kiev, or do I go to Moscow? “

Before I am happily banished back to the Russia board by the Ukraine board’s patron saints, here my brief analysis based on my visits there. I am not a Kiev expert as I am sure those Kiev experts on this board will spare no length to point out, but I have been there often enough to at least present things from my novice perspective, which may be of interest to those who have yet to visit and just like me, do not yet already “know everything”. It’s all an educational process as far as I’m concerned, and I do enjoy going to school with all of you.

1) Relative beauty of the girls/women:

Both cities abound with beauties who are, for those not familiar with Slavic women, incredibly varied in size, shape, skin color, hair color, complexion, body type etc etc. This is in itself one of the great things about the now defunct USSR... they spread the wealth on exotic (from our perspective at least) beauty exceedingly well. Now with the regions surrounding Moscow and Kiev continuing to fall apart, the two cities draw their respective country's wealth of beauty into them as well. Pretty, smart girls and often pretty dumb girls as well seek their fortune in the big city. If anything, this phenomenon is more extreme in Moscow than in Kiev. As far as which city offers the most beauty, this is really a toss up and a matter of taste. You won't go wrong in either place. For my money's worth Moscow offers more variety than Kiev and I have definitely seen more beautiful women in Moscow than in Kiev... but I've also been to Moscow much more often. Either way, provided this annoying revolution finds a conclusion soon, either city will offer you a lot of eye candy, some of it even lickable.

I give this one a “Draw”, the verdict is still out on this. Right now however, the revolution is definitely keeping Kiev's beauty under wraps. Hope they reappear soon. And damn, I can’t wait for Spring when the dyevs air out their snatches in mini-skirt season.

2) Cost of visit:

Moscow is definitely more expensive than Kiev. It doesn't have to be unbearably so, but it is. If an apartment costs $70 in Kiev, it costs $100+ in Moscow. If a cocktail costs $5 in Kiev, it costs $9 in Moscow. Your running costs in Moscow will be at least 30% higher than in Kiev, if not more. A lot of this depends on your lifestyle, but to find the hottest chicks in Moscow, you’ll have to exercise some lifestyle. They adore it.

Kiev wins hands down.

3) Clubs:

Moscow blows Kiev away in the sheer number and relative quality of clubs. None of the mainstream or even so-called "good" clubs I visited in Kiev would even make a dent in the Moscow scene... in fact most of the clubs visited reminded me of clubs in the Moscow Oblast or somewhere out in Himki. Hell, some of them even had day-glo fluorescent decorations on the walls. Caribbean Club, supposedly a good place, was a fucking dive, as was Chaikovsky. A couple of the “elite” clubs in Kiev could hold their own in Moscow, but there really is no comparison in terms of overall clubbing venues. At least not from what I saw. This is probably due to the sheer amount of loose cash in Moscow that needs to be laundered. It is not uncommon for club owners in Moscow, whose sponsors are involved in obscure cash-producing endeavours, to drop a million bucks into an elite club... and yes, you do see the difference. Does this really matter? Not really I suppose. Kiev’s dyevs are going to go somewhere, day-glo decor or not. Still, in this category…

Moscow wins hands down.

4) Pro action in pickup bars

River Palace is more Night Flight than Chesterfields (D&M Boarhouse) in terms of ambience and physical quality of girls, with ModaBar somewhere in between. I don't have enough experience in Kiev to make any sort of definitive judgement on my part, but I liked RP's layout... yet wasn't ultra happy with the women. I scored one very "villing" girl there for $100... and a day later only met ultra-bi-aches who wanted $200 for the time of day. This can happen at CF too I suppose, and at NF you know you aren't escaping for less than $200... but when going there you know the score. At RP, it was schizophrenic. Recently I haven't found any good alternative pickup bars in Moscow, aside from the pricey Metalitsa/casino variety... but I personally still give Moscow a slight edge for a variety of venues and Kiev an edge for affordable high quality available at RP...provided you get there on a night when the biach factor is low. In the end it is a draw as for the normal monger there is really no difference whether you go to River Palace/CF/ModaBar or NF.... maybe a slightly different pricetag... that's all.

Draw.

5) Pro action via internet/agencies

I didn't do this and can't comment, sorry. However I was getting quoted $50/hour, $70 2 hours, $150 night. I personally just don’t like call in. Probably Moscow has the edge since the scene is much more expansive there, but I decline any judgement on my part.

6) Crime and militia hassles

Relative crime is low in both cities, this shouldn't be a real concern. The Moscow militia are much more of a hassle than the Kiev sort however, who are generally uninterested in hassling foreigners.

Kiev wins by default.

7) Picking up non-pro women
Certainly Moscow women are more sophisticated and cosmopolitan than the Kiev variety, but this doesn’t necessarily mean that Moscow women prefer sleeping alone. I think a big factor in both places, but probably even more so in Moscow, is the return on vaginal investment factor. If the Moscow bird thinks you’ll be a frequent return visitor or even live in Moscow at some point, she’s much more likely to spread than if she thinks you're another star-struck expat on his semi-annual trip to Nirvana. There are numerous approaches to this aspect of the game and obviously not every monger is willing to play… there is definitely something to be said for those short-term visitors concentrating entirely on the pro-angle where return on investment, both in terms of time and money, is much more clearly defined… however for those so inclined, it is an addiction you’ll be happy to suffer from. And going cold turkey, i.e. back to the World, is brutal. I have yet to determine any real difference in ease of scoring freebies between the two cities. Supposedly the “real” action is outside of the big cities, where the “exotic factor” of expats (or is the “desperation factor” of the local female populace?) is considerably higher, however for many this is not really a viable option. My experience in this regard does seem to confirm that, at least in part, it is easier to score above your league in the regions. As for Moscow vs. Kiev and the relative ease of getting laid there, I'm happily conducting research on the subject and will continue to do so...

Draw.

8) tochka, street scene

Exists in Moscow but is worsening, both in terms of quality and price. Kiev’s street scene is very skanky. Still, in this category

Moscow wins for maintaining this still (sometimes barely) viable option.

9) Infrastructure, transport and airports

Getting in and out of Kiev is much easier than Moscow. Generally speaking, the main Russian airport of Sheremetyvo is a catastrophe... you'll be uttering "pizdets" as soon as you see the lines waiting at passport control. I always go green line in either country, don't declare a damn thing and spend all my money before leaving and everybody's happy. Public transport in form of the metro works well in either city. Unless you speak Russian, I'd avoid using buses or trams... you'll get lost in the middle of nowhere. Taxis are getting more expensive in either country due to the fuel price hike. In Moscow "gypsy" taxis are the rule, in Kiev normal taxis are more prominent and affordable. Moscow’s second major international airport Domodedevo is really quite nice (relatively speaking), however most international and especially intercontinental flights crash land at Sher, so due to ease of getting around and especially due to the airport, I give Kiev a slight edge.

Kiev wins.

10) Restaurants

Moscow easily defeats Kiev in terms of variety and quality. Kiev is cheaper though, so if this isn't important for you then you'll save some cash there.

As an example, they are just now discovering sushi in Kiev, which has been pre-dominant as the dyev food of choice in Moscow for years. During a recent date with two self-proclaimed modern girls in Kiev they both had their first taste of sushi with RM and me... it wasn't bad sushi, but of course their borsch-poisoned palates hated it. Provincial bumpkins! But then again, there is something to be said for provincial bumpkins as well... they are easily impressed and hopelessly naive. Daisy Duke, we love ya. Kiev is improving fast and will soon more or less catch up I’m certain, but in any case, if restaurants factor into your sphere of interest, then for the time being

Moscow beats Kiev hands down.

11) Tourist shit to do:

I don’t know, I never get around to it.

Final tally:

I lost count, but I think it ended as a draw. So that means keep playing, right?

Oozhis kashmar!

I wish you had the opportunity to perceive the endless limitless underground night action before deciding to compare to any other city..

V-Mars:

I don't doubt Kiev's potential nor question it's uniqueness, I am merely comparing the two cities from my perspective ( as you often do from yours)... my perspective being one not unlike that of many who will visit both cities... even as unfair or even inane the comparison may seem, it is an inevitable one and not uninteresting...

Nonetheless, I shall be embarking on a more extensive campaign to explore the city in earnest.

Dr Skank,

Thanks for the comparative, it's very informative and quite objective. Surely a big help for WSG members considering to visit Moscow or Kiev. I only come occasionally to Kiev, but can confirm I got the same perception as you (rightly or wrongly, that's not the point ;))

Great post, surely not an uninteresting one, far from that! And certainly a helpful one. Thanks again.

Jim