German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[QUOTE=Takedown;2154361] there hasn't been a pay increase in 16 years (for the half hour rate.). Imagine if your job did not give you a raise for 16 years! If her way to make more money is a two tier pricing system, then I can't blame her, as long as she is honest and delivers the good service.[/QUOTE]About 95% of the girls haven't been working for more than 5 years, so that is not quite true for the majority of girls. Plus inflation isn't that high within German. Plus the majority of girls come from Romania and Bulgaria with an average monthly net salary between 250-500€ max. So for them it still is a valid option to make a lot of money with no education at all. Even German girls are still in the job, working for the same rate as 10 years ago and giving good service and being honest about price and time.

Are there any new Latinas in the FKK's in Frankfurt?

Average French salary is about 2500 €.

Minimum Swiss salary is nearly 4000 €, 4200 CHF.

Minimum Romanian salary is about 200/250 €.

Not even minimum salary in Hungary.

Some girls are over 20000 per month in Germany. Few superstars are about 30000 per month at Globe.

I prefer to have only 1 or 2 really enjoyable 1 h or 1 h30 rooms, my standard, with a pretty girl, cost 200/300 , rather than many fast rooms with GND, 50 € is too expensive for me for GND. A really good day can be 200/300 spent on girls, most of time only with my regulars.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2154361]Anyway, the guys are not at fault to try and save some money and I'm not advocating for a higher half-hour rate. What I mean is that it is a little unfair to villainize a girl for wanting a higher wage when there hasn't been a pay increase in 16 years (for the half hour rate.). Imagine if your job did not give you a raise for 16 years! If her way to make more money is a two tier pricing system, then I can't blame her, as long as she is honest and delivers the good service.[/QUOTE]Some of the best paid people in Frankfurt are probably earning less now than they were prior to the GFC. IT contractors for investment banks / private banks in London and Zurich have a much lower day rate now than they enjoyed from the late 90's up until the GFC and I expect the same is true of Frankfurt. These workers are a small proportion of the total workforce, but they had a lot of disposable income that found its way into the clubs.

Oh, I'm not suggesting that these girls have been there since 2002. But isn't it safe to say that the pay for most entry level jobs are higher than they were in 2002? Does the McDonalds cashier make a higher wage than his counterpart in 2002? Does the hamburger cost more than in 2002?

Realistically it's not a 50 euro per half hour job because they are not booked every half hour. Even salesman who do not make any sales still make a minimum wage. Its a business that takes a half an hour to complete 1 sale. And like with all businesses, there are overhead costs, like club entry, hygiene and cosmetic costs.

Is the standard of living in Romania and what they do with their money what determines what they deserve? Who are we to tell them how to spend their money and tell them that since they are from a poor country that they deserve lower wages? That line of thinking is actually a bit prejudice and western elitist. Many of these girls do live in Germany and have to pay German cost of living prices.

As for German girls, they're not so many of them in the clubs right? Perhaps the 50 euro half hour rate is why there are so few than compared to the first decade of FKKs.

But like I said, Im not advocating for a rate increase. Im just saying that they have a valid gripe and villainizing them as second class humans who deserve less might not be justified, from a human decency point of view anyway.

[QUOTE=RogueNation;2154386]About 95% of the girls haven't been working for more than 5 years, so that is not quite true for the majority of girls. Plus inflation isn't that high within German. Plus the majority of girls come from Romania and Bulgaria with an average monthly net salary between 250-500 max. So for them it still is a valid option to make a lot of money with no education at all. Even German girls are still in the job, working for the same rate as 10 years ago and giving good service and being honest about price and time.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=TheCane;2154374]Your statement assumes that a girl has been in the business for 16 years. The truth is that most will only work in the industry for a very small fraction of that time, and nothing near a full 16 years. So, why should they be able to come in for more than the established 50 euros per half hour? They can't make the argument that they haven't had a raise in 16 years because they (virtually none of them) have worked that long. Nor will they ever. Is it because the price of milk and butter is higher? Well, that's not my concern.

And neither is it theirs really. All most of these tutes want is to buy another Gucci handbag and go out partying in a BMW and put stuff up their noses. And here's the kicker. Since when did earning 50 euros for a half hour of work become insufficient wages? Do you know how many people would kill to have a job like that? Fifty euros for a half hour of work is nothing to sneeze at, and these tutes should stop complaining! That's damn good money for the average person in the world by almost any account. I've no empathy for them.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2154394]Some girls are over 20000 per month in Germany. Few superstars are about 30000 per month at Globe.[/QUOTE]Average girl's profit after expenses?

[QUOTE=Takedown;2154498]Even salesman who do not make any sales still make a minimum wage. But like I said, I'm not advocating for a rate increase. I'm just saying that they have a valid gripe and villainizing them as second class humans who deserve less might not be justified, from a human decency point of view anyway.[/QUOTE]First, I don't know where in the world you gather the notion that all salesmen who don't sell anything still earn a minimum wage LOL! That's simply not true! There are plenty of sales jobs where if you don't sell, you don't earn any money. No guaranteed base! Lots of sales jobs are structured that way to keep the sales staff hungry. Otherwise, you'd have too many people who might just accept some guaranteed minimum pay and not put in the effort that the company needs for them to in order to move the product or service in question. Second, if you're really not advocating for a price hike, then why all the discussion about minimum wage, overhead costs, and the current-day price of a hamburger? What's the point of going into all of that then if your only point is that the girls are full human beings who deserve to be treated with respect like everybody else? I don't believe I said anything that challenges that. What I said was the truth, and we all know it. Which is that most of these girls will blow whatever money they earn, or give it all away to some lover boy, and end up with much of nothing. That's not just my opinion. It's what the facts bear out. And that's just the plain truth. For a hot girl who provides quality service, she's going to score a lot of "rooms" and make a lot of money. For those girls who are not so hot and / or who aren't good service providers, well then they won't make good money, and I don't feel bad for them. That's the nature of a sales-related job. Some have what it takes to sell, and some do not. For those who do not, they need to find something else to do. That's how the world spins.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2154498]Oh, I'm not suggesting that these girls have been there since 2002. But isn't it safe to say that the pay for most entry level jobs are higher than they were in 2002? Does the McDonalds cashier make a higher wage than his counterpart in 2002? Does the hamburger cost more than in 2002?

Realistically it's not a 50 euro per half hour job because they are not booked every half hour. Even salesman who do not make any sales still make a minimum wage. Its a business that takes a half an hour to complete 1 sale. And like with all businesses, there are overhead costs, like club entry, hygiene and cosmetic costs.

Is the standard of living in Romania and what they do with their money what determines what they deserve? Who are we to tell them how to spend their money and tell them that since they are from a poor country that they deserve lower wages? That line of thinking is actually a bit prejudice and western elitist. Many of these girls do live in Germany and have to pay German cost of living prices.

As for German girls, they're not so many of them in the clubs right? Perhaps the 50 euro half hour rate is why there are so few than compared to the first decade of FKKs.

But like I said, Im not advocating for a rate increase. Im just saying that they have a valid gripe and villainizing them as second class humans who deserve less might not be justified, from a human decency point of view anyway.[/QUOTE]I agree with you completely, no fucking way would I accept not getting a raise every year.

But also, I won't pay more than I have to and I think that the rates for longer sessions should be discounted. Having to fuck two guys just to pay entrance and taxes is a pretty grim life in my eyes.

Honestly to me 50 euro for 30 minutes indicates low class sex workers, ugly and bad service.

The place where I used to get my hair cut is now demanding close to 50 euro, I don't go there anymore as I think it's unreasonable to pay the same for getting my hair cut which probably don't even take 30 minutes.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2154498]Oh, I'm not suggesting that these girls have been there since 2002. [/QUOTE]Some of them are. From 2000. And they still work for 50 per half hour.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2154498]Realistically it's not a 50 euro per half hour job because they are not booked every half hour.[/QUOTE]Never said it is. But it is a job where you can make a lot of money with zero education.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2154498]Is the standard of living in Romania and what they do with their money what determines what they deserve? [/QUOTE]Not what they deserve but how "attractive" it is to work here as a WG compared to working in a Romanian factory or fucktory.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2154498]As for German girls, they're not so many of them in the clubs right? Perhaps the 50 euro half hour rate is why there are so few than compared to the first decade of FKKs.[/QUOTE]Exactly. Same for Polish, Hungarian and Czech girls. There standard of living in their home countries increased and 50 EUR per half hour isn't attracting them anymore.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2154371]Full Oase casting is after 5 pm, with short day team leaving about 9 pm.

Nearly full GT casting is about 3/4 pm. Trinity. Est back at GT.[/QUOTE]Thanks siri, ah, Oase after 5 pm. I left around then last time I went LOL. So I should arrive at Oase around 3 pm then next time I try LOL.

I did session with trinity once as she is Estonian and that is rare to find in FKK, I think she was hot when she was 18 years old, but now hmmm I would not call her stunner, I give her 6.5 or maybe 7 max out of ten for looks, for service she is good in room and she is good heart girl and easy to talk to.

GT has same casting most of time, I been there now for two full years and 80% of castings are same.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2154527]First, I don't know where in the world you gather the notion that all salesmen who don't sell anything still earn a minimum wage LOL! That's simply not true! There are plenty of sales jobs where if you don't sell, you don't earn any money. No guaranteed base! Lots of sales jobs are structured that way to keep the sales staff hungry. Otherwise, you'd have too many people who might just accept some guaranteed minimum pay and not put in the effort that the company needs for them to in order to move the product or service in question. Second, if you're really not advocating for a price hike, then why all the discussion about minimum wage, overhead costs, and the current-day price of a hamburger? What's the point of going into all of that then if your only point is that the girls are full human beings who deserve to be treated with respect like everybody else? I don't believe I said anything that challenges that. What I said was the truth, and we all know it. Which is that most of these girls will blow whatever money they earn, or give it all away to some lover boy, and end up with much of nothing. That's not just my opinion. It's what the facts bear out. And that's just the plain truth. For a hot girl who provides quality service, she's going to score a lot of "rooms" and make a lot of money. For those girls who are not so hot and / or who aren't good service providers, well then they won't make good money, and I don't feel bad for them. That's the nature of a sales-related job. Some have what it takes to sell, and some do not. For those who do not, they need to find something else to do. That's how the world spins.[/QUOTE]In the US, car salesmen, insurance salesmen, ticket salesman, etc all get a base salary for showing up to work. They also get company benefits such as retirement plans and health insurance. Their salaries are somewhere from $30 K to & 50 K per year. They make omission on top of that base salary. So where in the world you ask? In America.

As I mentioned, I say these things to bring the perspective of the girl to de-villainize them. That with all other cost of living going up, their profession's wage is the same as in 2002, they have a logical gripe.

Do you deserve a lower wage for wasting money on hookers? Again, what does someone's spending habits have to do with their wage?

[QUOTE=Takedown;2154498]But isn't it safe to say that the pay for most entry level jobs are higher than they were in 2002? Does the McDonalds cashier make a higher wage than his counterpart in 2002? Does the hamburger cost more than in 2002?
[/QUOTE]Minimum wage adjusts more-or-less according to inflation because these people in the lowest income brackets would not be able to survive otherwise. In professions above the minimum wage, workers salaries are more subject to market forces of supply and demand. In some professions, the workers might have been "overpaid" in the past. For instance, porn stars today don't come close to what they made in the late 1990's and early 2000's. If they do, certainly not with the same level of ease. Streaming porn killed their industry.

German FKK girls made 50 EUR in 2002. Their "streaming porn" was the entry of Romania and Bulgaria to EU. Why should pricing increase when the supply of WGs exceeds demand? Even at 50 EUR /30 min, I see plenty of WGs sitting around. Except for the upper tenth percentile, WGs are always complaining about lack of customers, especially on non-peak days. There is 400,000 WGs in Germany, so unless all the laufhaus, apartments, and privates increase their prices in lock-step, FKK clubs will lose customers to the other flavors of P6. I am sure FKK club owners don't want to engage in that price war. But price wars are generally good for consumers, which is probably why prices have remained low.

Western European lorry "big rig" drivers have also seen wage stagnation since the newest EU countries have joined. On the German autobahns, all you see is license plates from Romania and Poland. Romanians long distance truck drivers are willing to work for 30000 lei /7500 EUR a year. In a decade or so, they will all be replaced by self-driving vehicles, which means their wages will lower to zero.

By the way, iPod cost $400 in 2001. If adjusted for inflation an iPod should cost $535 today. But the reality is the iPod Touch in 2018 costs $199.

Many stocks in Finance sector still haven't recovered from 2001 and 2008 downturns. Deutsche Bank is Germany's biggest bank by market cap. Stock price in 2002 was 50 EUR. Stock price in 2018 is 12 EUR.

Let them make their money, so it will allure other stunners girls to join our world of mongering.

Bigger the incentives, better the line up will be.

More money, more honey and younger / beauty the better LOL!

Finally McA!

Most well thought out response yet. One other poster also cited the laws of supply and demand, Rogue Nation perhaps? Simple economics does explain why prices remain low. In this case, for a profession earning above the minimum wage. More Romanians, more supply, prices low. Got it.

So from an economics side, we understand that 50 euro is the fair market value and these girls are subject to their value. Now for those whom economics is the end all, be all, discussion is closed and there's no need to read any further.

For the human discussion of villainizing these girls as cheats, well the question remains, the cost of living has increased so the girls are trying to keep up with that. With Ro joining the EU many girls are living in Germany and participating in German society, paying German prices to live. How does that factor into your opinion of the girls as money-hungry cheats? Again, the prices are set and I'm not advocating for an increase at all. But would you admit that due to substantial increases in cost of living, these girls' profit margins are reduced as compared to 18 years ago?

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2154696]Minimum wage adjusts more-or-less according to inflation because these people in the lowest income brackets would not be able to survive otherwise. In professions above the minimum wage, workers salaries are more subject to market forces of supply and demand. In some professions, the workers might have been "overpaid" in the past. For instance, porn stars today don't come close to what they made in the late 1990's and early 2000's. If they do, certainly not with the same level of ease. Streaming porn killed their industry.

German FKK girls made 50 EUR in 2002. Their "streaming porn" was the entry of Romania and Bulgaria to EU. Why should pricing increase when the supply of WGs exceeds demand? Even at 50 EUR /30 min, I see plenty of WGs sitting around. Except for the upper tenth percentile, WGs are always complaining about lack of customers, especially on non-peak days..[/QUOTE]

McA. Interesting that you bring up porn comps. I believe you are right. I don't know how much they made pre-2000 but it must have been better. Now, men are making a few hundred per shoot, and women are at a grand to 1500 at best if they are stars, and 3 digits if less well known or new to the industry. Several porn agencies list stars and how much they are willing to take to hire out, and some well known names are available for even $500.

I wonder how porn stars are making even that much, because so much content is totally free, and there are some ads but as a perverted male my focus is always on the girl and not the ad. Obviously there are some paid sites, but even there you get unlimited content for $8 a month. When the site has 100,000+ videos already, how much will they pay to add another video to their site?

That said, for whatever reason, there are a much larger number of women, (and I might add much more attractive girls) in the industry now than in 1990s. In 1980s and 1990s it was always a hundred or so jaded girls. Now there are literally thousands. If pay rates have declined somehow More girls got lured in, and thats in a US economy which has been generally OK. Perhaps the rising income disparity, and low end workers being stagnated explains this. Also, in 1990s porn stars didn't escort out as much, at least not openly and publicly. Now, practically every single porn star is available for escorting for 1000 to 1500, I.e. whatever she makes on a video shoot.


To your point on DB stock price I will point out that stock price is not a meaningful metric in this situation because so many banks got diluted materially. Post the financial crisis, they had to issue huge amounts of new equity or converts etc. Citi stock price is still a small fraction of what it used to be pre-2008 but it doesn't mean the company value is that much less because the number of shares has increased massively.