General Info

[QUOTE=Varenne;1942003]
Mit der Vorschrift werden vor allem Prostituierte gegenber Kunden, Betreibern und Personen ihres Umfeldes darin bestrkt, zum eigenen Schutz auf der Verwendung infektionsschtzender Sexualpraktiken zu bestehen und sich anderslautenden Kundenwnschen zu widersetzen, indem sie auf das Verbot verweisen. Die Vorschrift knpft damit fr ihre Implementierung am eigenen Schutzinteresse der Prostituierten an. Verste gegen die Kondompflicht sind daher fr Prostituierte nach diesem Gesetz nicht bugeldbewehrt, jedoch fr Kunden und Kundinnen. Fr die von mancher Seite geuerte Befrchtung, die Kondompflicht solle durch Einsatz von Scheinfreiern gegenber Prostituierten mit Ordnungsmitteln durchgesetzt werden, ist damit kein Raum.[/QUOTE]Umlauts are missing, but it's probably not worth putting them in.

Interesting here is that, while the requirement applies to both parties, only customers are liable to fines, not sex providers.

[QUOTE=SaratogaX;1942925]Does renting a car makes sense? Does it alleviate the travel to these clubs and does it save time / money? Plan on being there 4 to 6 days.TIA.[/QUOTE]How many clubs do you plan visiting? Which clubs will you visit? Do you drink? Are you a daytime visitor or would you like to stay all night? Do you stay at a hotel near the clubs you visit, or are you staying at one place risking long distance to the clubs? Are you planning on being a full time FKK clubber, or do you also have other plans (business/tourist stuff)? Do you have plenty of time and enjoy travelling by public transport? Do you care about added taxi costs or is that irrelevant? Are you travelling alone or with buddies who are willing to share costs?

[QUOTE=Optimist;1941312]Sven, you may be correct, especially if the Greens do very well, but I am working on the assumption that the SPD has probably the most extreme feminist ministers, even wanting to ban any use of gender in adverts where not essential (for example a pretty girl or cute boy in adverts for yoghurt etc). As always, it's wait and see. My grasp of German politics is a bit limited.
[/QUOTE]Your assumption is wrong. The SPD was mainly responsible for the law of 2002 or whatever, and the current change is driven by the CDU / CSU.

Also, keep in mind that there are both extreme left-wing and extreme right-wing politicians who are anti-prostitution, though perhaps for different reasons. The SPD is pretty much in the middle.

In many other countries, left-of-centre, and perhaps even other, parties agree on banning prositution, but that's not the case in Germany.

What will happen? As soon as the CDU / CSU has less power, the law will revert back to something like it was before, with the justification that the new one caused more problems than it solved.

[QUOTE=WildMan;1942211]The law doesn't prevent Ball Licking and tea bagging, licking the shaft could still be legit and also a lady could take your cum directly from a condom into her mouth by licking it out!

So it's a completely insane fooling law!
[/QUOTE]Wrong. First of all, most guys want to feel coming in her mouth, not seeing her suck it out of a condom. Second, the intention of the law is clear. Back when some US states passed laws requiring motorcycle helmets to be worn, some bozos strapped them to their knees. Didn't work.

[QUOTE=WildMan;1942211]
Also nobody has given me an authoritative response yet on whether this finishes Flat Rates like Caligula and Airport Girls as we know them and also gang bang clubs such as Erlebeniswohnung![/QUOTE]Certainly the law will prevent them from advertising themselves as such.

[QUOTE=Varenne;1942332]Probably yes. Here is the authoritative text a response should be based upon (google translate):

[I]One of the basic conditions for the legal recognition of prostitution as a legal transaction, which is directed to sexual services, is hedged in Prostitution Act at any time of retrieval of the willingness to perform sexual acts. Is a commercial prostitution organized so that this reversibility is factually not guaranteed, so it is not compatible with the performance of sexual self-determination; such an operating concept must therefore be denied legal recognition.
Not permissible via therefore - regardless of whether individual participants would possibly engage in such conditions -. For example, commercial offers as so-called "(R a p e -) Gang-Bang" - events where a large number of so-called free against an entrance fee in parallel or in close time sequence, the opportunity to have sex with a prostitute or a prostitute is given while r a p e to be adjusted; because this can lead to a situation in which the person who allowed paid sexual intercourse, loses the ability to be able to influence the choice of customers who practices employed in general, any further exercise of sexual acts controlling.
The refusal of the authorization does not yet include this ban a particular sexual practice per se, so it's not about a ban private sex parties. The provision merely acts as a prohibition to organize such practices as a chargeable offers commercially.
Even if the operation of the prostitution industry of exploitation of prostitutes recognizable making feed, the authorization shall be refused.
This should regularly called. Flat-rate brothels (also known as "flat-rate" club, "All Inclusive Formula" o. . Named) be the case where it is brought at least to the outside of the appearances and advertised that prostitutes present in a prostitution site to a payable to the operator package price are accessible to all customers indiscriminately at any time. It constitutes a breach of the Prostitution Act if prostitutes for a pre-set fee to a third party - are committed to undertake an indefinite number of sexual acts - here the operator. To assess whether an exploitation abetted, besides, also the design of the internal contractual relationship between prostitutes and operators is crucial in addition to the application of the tender to the outside. excluded also after point 1 of the license conditions are business models that bring prostitutes z. B. by usury-like or non-transparent conditions in a situation of debt owed to the operator, as well as prostitution industry that build conceptually on employment of prostitutes as pseudo-self.[/I]

Original text:

[I]Eine der Grundbedingungen fr die rechtliche Anerkennung der Prostitution als ein Rechtsgeschft, das auf sexuelle Dienstleistungen gerichtet ist, ist die im Prostitutionsgesetz abgesicherte jederzeitige Rckholbarkeit der Bereitschaft zu sexuellen Handlungen. Ist ein Prostitutionsgewerbe so organisiert, dass diese Rckholbarkeit faktisch nicht gewhrleistet ist, so ist es mit der Wahrnehmung der sexuellen Selbstbestimmung nicht vereinbar; einem solchen Betriebskonzept muss daher die rechtliche Anerkennung verwehrt bleiben.
Nicht erlaubnisfhig sind daher unabhngig davon, ob einzelne Beteiligte sich ggf. auf solche Bedingungen einlassen wrden beispielsweise kommerzielle Angebote wie sog. (R a p e -)Gang-Bang- Veranstaltungen, bei denen einer Vielzahl sogenannter Freier gegen ein Eintrittsgeld parallel oder in enger zeitlicher Folge die Gelegenheit zum Geschlechtsverkehr mit einer Prostituierten oder einem Prostituierten eingerumt wird und dabei Vergewaltigungen nachgestellt werden; denn dies kann zu einer Situation fhren, in der die Person, die gegen Entgelt den Geschlechtsverkehr gestattet, die Mglichkeit verliert, auf die Auswahl der Kunden, die eingesetzten Praktiken oder generell die weitere Ausbung sexueller Handlungen steuernd Einfluss nehmen zu knnen.
Die Versagung der Erlaubnis beinhaltet dabei nicht zugleich ein Verbot einer bestimmten sexuellen Praxis an sich, es geht also nicht etwa um ein Verbot privater Sexparties. Die Vorschrift wirkt lediglich als Verbot, solche Praktiken als entgeltliche Angebote kommerziell zu organisieren.
Auch dann, wenn der Betrieb des Prostitutionsgewerbes der Ausbeutung von Prostituierten erkennbar Vorschub leistet, ist die Erlaubnis zu versagen.
Dies drfte regelmig bei sog. Flat-Rate-Bordellen (auch als Pauschal-Club, All-Inclusive-Angebot o. . benannt) der Fall sein, wo zumindest nach auen der Anschein erweckt und damit geworben wird, dass die in einer Prostitutionssttte anwesenden Prostituierten unterschiedslos zu einem an den Betreiber zu entrichtenden Pauschalpreis jederzeit fr jeden Kunden verfgbar sind. Dabei bildet es einen Versto gegen das Prostitutionsgesetz, wenn Prostituierte sich fr ein vorher festgesetztes Entgelt gegenber einem Dritten hier dem Betreiber zur Vornahme einer unbestimmten Zahl sexueller Akte verpflichten. Fr die Beurteilung, ob einer Ausbeutung Vorschub geleistet wird, ist dabei neben der Bewerbung des Angebots nach auen auch die Gestaltung des vertraglichen Binnenverhltnisses zwischen Prostituierten und Betreiber mageblich. Ebenfalls nach Nummer 1 von der Erteilung einer Erlaubnis ausgeschlossen sind Geschftsmodelle, die Prostituierte z. B. durch wucherartige oder intransparente Vertragsbedingungen in eine Situation der Verschuldung gegenber dem Betreiber bringen, sowie Prostitutionsgewerbe, die konzeptionell auf einer Beschftigung von Prostituierten als Scheinselbstndige aufbauen.[/I][/QUOTE]First, this explicitly forbids gang-bang and flatrate clubs, even if the girls agree to the conditions in the case of gang-bang clubs. With respect to flate-rate clubs, it seems to be that there has to be at least the impression that a girl can refuse a certain customer. That's already the case. So, flat-rate clubs could continue to exist and advertise themselves as such, provided they don't claim that you can have as much sex as you want, but you can have it with whomever you want. So, I don't see a problem here. With gang-bang clubs, advertising as such would be a problem, but, as has happened elsewhere in the past, there is nothing to prevent a "spontaneous" gang-bang--like session.

It also makes it clear that private sex parties are not affected. However, it is also clear that a club can't just claim to be hosting a private party, even if the girls pay entrance fees as well.

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;1942399]Nonsense. First of all, that's not enforcement of the law, that's extortion. My question was how is this new law enforceable. It basically isn't.

As for extortion, I'd tell her I'm paying the 50 and if you make accusations I'll report your extortion. If she executes her threat (1) she still won't get her 500, and (2) it's a he-said-she-said (3) the cops arriving will scare off customers and create bad word of mouth and (4) she'll be banned from the FKK by management for causing same.[/QUOTE]First, your plan would involve you carrying out the extortion. Second, it is not extortion to report a crime, or to threaten to report one. (Whether this should be a crime is a separate question.).

And, yes, it is enforceable.

[QUOTE=Varenne;1942409]If you are not shy, you could also get around the prescriptions of the law if you pretend to be a performer acting for the sole purpose of offering a good show, provided you have an audience, and that you don't allow this audience to partake in your activities:

See Besonderer Teil, Zu Artikel 1, Zu 2, Zu Absatz 1):

[I]Vorfhrungen sexuell konnotierter oder pornografischer Art mit rein darstellerischem Charakter, die von einer oder mehreren Personen vor anderen anwesenden Personen ausgefhrt werden, fallen ebenfalls nicht in den Anwendungsbereich dieses Gesetzes, wenn mit Ausnahme der Darstellerinnen oder Darsteller keine weiteren anwesenden Personen sexuell aktiv einbezogen sind.[/I]

Google translation:

[I]Demonstrations sexually connoted or pornographic nature with purely darstellerischem character, performed by one or more persons persons present before others, also fall outside the scope of this Act, if other than the actresses or actors, no further persons present are sexually active included[/I]

I think that Swingerlover had already suggested this trick long time before the approval of the law.[/QUOTE]No, that won't work. It is talking about professional porn actors, registered as such.

[QUOTE=UltraHappy;1942476]So, wouldn't my time with my girl in the Kino count as a performance then if I am getting a public BBBJ?[/QUOTE]No. Whatever you think of the law, it doesn't have such obvious loopholes.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1942560]Knowing this is Germany, they probably have a law that requires you to be registered as a licensed porn-actor under a written contract with the movie-producer or theater owner and of course as an actor you and the girl have both to be paid for your performance (on which income you will pay tax and social security dues).[/QUOTE]Correct. Simple loopholes won't work.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1942576]That's not true, or at least not necessarily so.

"Brothels" (in the very general meaning of the word) will need a license under the new law. Such license can be refused (or revoked) if it appears that the women working in such brothel are not free to decide themselves whether or not to have sex with a customer. That is a requiement under the previous Prostitution-law already. All kind of coercion to force someone to have sex is forbidden. Flat-rate clubs at least give the impression that the girls are not free in their choice and hence a flatrate club will need a system that makes it very clear none of the ladies is under any form of coercion to fulfill her quota of customers beforeshe gets her payment from the club.

It does not take a rocket-scientist (just a good lawyer) to draw up a contract between the prostitute and the club that either gives her the right to refuse sex at any time without risking a cut-back on her wages or that gives her a fixed (reasosnable) sum for every "room" she makes with a customer. In both cases the decision remains hers and the club is not coercing her.

The club should also clearly announce that the flat-rate performers are allowed at any time to refuse to have sex and that no sexual services are guaranteed at all. An advertisement as "all the sex you can have for xxx EUR" would be banned.[/QUOTE]As long as the club neither requires workers to accept any and all clients, and as long as this impression is not created, no problem.

So is the party over as at July 2017 ?

[QUOTE=MrManGuy;1943145]So is the party over as at July 2017 ?[/QUOTE]As has been written so many times: wait and see.

We can debate till we are blue in the face but noone knows what will happen until it happens.

For sure there will be unintended consequences, but whether they will be good or bad I don't know.

Depends also on how you define "party". If you want bareback gangbangs, almost certainly yes. Everything else is debatable, but not yet known.

Is the Frankfurt book trade fair all that popular? I'm seeing some really high hotel prices and I'm assuming its because of that event.

[URL]http://www.messefrankfurt.com/frankfurt/en/messe/publications/messekalender.html?nc[/URL]

Very popular, one of the biggest fairs in Frankfurt. But almost no influence on the Frankfurt clubs as the bookworms are more interested in reading.

HB.

[QUOTE=HessenBub;1943653]Very popular, one of the biggest fairs in Frankfurt. But almost no influence on the Frankfurt clubs as the bookworms are more interested in reading.

HB.[/QUOTE]Yup. Very true. I have been in the Oase and Sharks club during Book Fair in middle of October and the ckubs are empty. The book buyers like to stay home or in their hotels to read their buys than fuck.

Automechanika and IAA are different stories.