Kyiv

This is one of the first rule in the sex market. Everybody, who deals in the sex market, knows it: if a woman doesn't want to get a disease, then she never works as a prostitute, if a man doesn't want to get a disease, then he never touchs a prostitute. There are no different ways in the middle.

And see also the other part of the problem. If I, man, give you an amount of money coming from my bloody work, then why should you, woman, catch my bloody money with no good work?

I understand this a marginal difference for the Anglo-Saxon background for which everything is right when there is a mere agreement regardless of the content of the agreement. Pragmatically, stealing candies to a baby is right when the baby doesn't (or can't) claim.

Instead it is important to realize when a price is honest and when a service is honest, otherwise all the rest is the law of the jungle, and everything (morality, ethics, religion, education, etc.) loses its meaning.

Pragmatically,"don't ask, just do that" is a good solution: both of us naked on the bed, she is doggy and I put my penis into her asshole, she doesn't want? Try again, she runs away? Say "no work no money", she refuses? Kick her out with no taxi fare because she doesn't want to work correctly. There is just one way to work as a prostitute, and ALL prostitutes know that!

[QUOTE=Latexian2;1276558]While in theory the idea of "don't ask just do" sounds good, in practice it's not so easy. Many pros are very knowledgable about disease transmission risks, and they understandably don't want to do DATY or BBBJ, or at least not without a price premium. Better to ask if it's on the menu, or a girl might turn out not to be what you expect.[/QUOTE]

Many thanks for your review Poker Player 2. There is so much irrelevant tiresome rubbish here. But this is the kind of informative on the spot stuff thatis really useful. (you may like to read my own day by day visit experience) I was fascinated by your success with the massages. I have similarly attempted to get further with girls from Dolly and Rakuena but with no success. It would be great to get a clue as to which you use yourself. 'TheKnight' similarly is turned on by the massage service and made some small progress, but generally its impenetrable. What's your secret.

[QUOTE=AColonizer;1276838]Pragmatically,"don't ask, just do that" is a good solution: both of us naked on the bed, she is doggy and I put my penis into her asshole, she doesn't want? Try again, she runs away? Say "no work no money", she refuses? Kick her out with no taxi fare because she doesn't want to work correctly. There is just one way to work as a prostitute, and ALL prostitutes know that![/QUOTE]This does not work for me with prostitutes. I neither like to receive or give tension with strangers."Don't ask, just do" apparently has different meanings to different members. To me, it is basically that fine line of a girl telling you no when she means yes. There is no sex that is more erotic than when you can break down a strong willed dev to a submissive weakling.

[quote=how14;1273393]sorry friend i don't believe a word your saying, i'm not having it[/quote]took a look at your previous posts and see almost half deleted by admin for various reasons. a recent post about mamba trash- vika and vlada by another member here you also ask a stupid question- "is this a fabriction?". jesus man, read his post when you are not on meds and then respond. he clearly states he met these coniving bitches, heard their speech, fucked them, paid them then as soon as possible they ran as they always do. that's there mo! as far as you not believing anything from my first post i am assuming it is because you have not had any game or remotely had the variety of success and fun i encountered while in kiev. remember i was there 9 weeks and i am a pretty organized and horny bastard so motivation was not needed. bottom line, try not be be so narrow minded if you read a post which is so far from your experiences you can't believe it, maybe you will learn something, or ask a question in a friendly manner?

I am talking you as a friend. Please, not to misinterpret that.

Yes, you are right. But what is that behaviour? That is the notorius fierce sexist game: a female wants to change a male's mind into her own convenience only, and she uses any types of feeling tactics to obtain her own advantage only. And that behaviour explains everything that is wrong in a relationship between females and males, and between any categories of females and any categories of males, socalled wife and husband, socalled prostitute and customer, socalled woman and man.

In this specific case, when you feel a tension between you and a prostitute (freebie or professional) , this happens because the prostitute has recognized a gentleman in you, and she is forcing you into a stressful situation. The problem is not in you and in your natural requests, the problem is in the prostitute who wants a lot of money with no real work. This is the key of interpretation of the world. And remind, money is a form of the blood used in a work.

The only way to avoid that stressful situation with prostitutes is to avoid all prostitutes.

Do you want less tension with a submissive girl? Then you should have a relationship with regular girls, they are not often models or nice, but they can be very submissive. It has happenned also to me!

However, a lot of men have the same stressful situation with their fiancees or wives, but that happens because those females are prostitutes disguised as fiancees and wives, who are allowed to sucking the blood from their males through an imposition of the law. For this reason most husbands attend prostitutes and they have esteem of prostitutes much more than their wives. Isn't that ridicolous?

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1277167]This does not work for me with prostitutes. I neither like to receive or give tension with strangers."Don't ask, just do" apparently has different meanings to different members. To me, it is basically that fine line of a girl telling you no when she means yes. There is no sex that is more erotic than when you can break down a strong willed dev to a submissive weakling.[/QUOTE]

I don't have a problem paying 300 dollar for a girl. Having an intersting coversation with the diev, and she is theling me about these salary in Kiev:

A doctor-150-300 euro.

Nurse-120-150.

Teacher at the uni-200-300.

Accountant-250-350.

Lawyer-about 300-1000.

Programmist-300-700.

So it ends up we pay a month salary to dievs for few hour sex. Its just crazy)

If they get paid.

Many times their monthly salaries are delayed, many of them have to work so many hours (not just 40) for these salaries, and don't forget that is in Kiev, in other cities the salaries are lower.

[QUOTE=Tomux 22; 1277529]I don't have a problem paying 300 dollar for a girl. Having an intersting coversation with the diev, and she is theling me about these salary in Kiev:

A doctor-150-300 euro.

Nurse-120-150.

Teacher at the uni-200-300.

Accountant-250-350.

Lawyer-about 300-1000.

Programmist-300-700.

So it ends up we pay a month salary to dievs for few hour sex. Its just crazy) [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Tomux 22;1277529]So it ends up we pay a month salary to dievs for few hour sex. Its just crazy)[/QUOTE]Let us all stop that right now. It is absurd. 300 USD for sex in Ukraine is not an OK price. I think 40-50 USD per hour is more reasonable, with an upper limit of 100-120 USD and perhaps some taxi money. The girls will not like us anyway, even if we pay 3000 so no use in trying to impress them by paying stupid amounts.

Barba

I completely agree with the majority of the below statements regarding prices. If you look at the average wage in Ukraine and then the asking price some of our brother mongers are willing to pay, it just seems a tad ridiculous to me.

The problem is Ukrainians know the value of one of its major natural resources, their women. They possess a commodity which is high in demand.

For that matter, I would love to hear the stories of my more mature mongering brothers hey day during the "Golden era" of FSU poon hounding.

It must have been glorious. Unfortunately, this is our new reality we all must deal with. I think if more punters went the independent route then there could be a dip in prices at clubs, but it would take the majority of punters being in lock step in order to achieve this.

Let's face it lads, when it comes to men and pussy the little head often is in charge of the big head.

Garnering monger support for such an endeavor would disappear quicker than a fart in the wind.

God bless the Slavs and their women.

Slavophile.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1277631]Let us all stop that right now. It is absurd. 300 USD for sex in Ukraine is not an OK price. I think 40-50 USD per hour is more reasonable, with an upper limit of 100-120 USD and perhaps some taxi money. The girls will not like us anyway, even if we pay 3000 so no use in trying to impress them by paying stupid amounts.

Barba[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Barba; 1277631]Let us all stop that right now. It is absurd. 300 USD for sex in Ukraine is not an OK price. I think 40-50 USD per hour is more reasonable, with an upper limit of 100-120 USD and perhaps some taxi money. The girls will not like us anyway, even if we pay 3000 so no use in trying to impress them by paying stupid amounts.

Barba[/QUOTE]I might be wrong, but reading this forum it dose look like most forengers pay this price in Kiev. Even ukraine are in the middle of crysis.

And I completley agree paying the same price for escort in Kiev like in Milan or London is insane.

[QUOTE=Tomux 22; 1277661]I might be wrong, but reading this forum it dose look like most forengers pay this price in Kiev. Even ukraine are in the middle of crysis.

And I completley agree paying the same price for escort in Kiev like in Milan or London is insane.[/QUOTE]The $300 mantra was one constantly and ruthlessly pounded into the heads of readers by someone who was pushing unsuspecting readers to his third rate strip club establishment. Those are not the real prices here for girls from other sources such as top models, mamba and other sites.

$300 for an overnight with BBBJ, DATY and whatever else you can get is OK. $300 for perhaps 3 hours with no BBBJ and no DATY from the strip club is a huge rip off.

Be careful of what you read and do think for yourself. If someone is incessantly promoting one club or one venue or one site, then you have to consider that they work for that establishment. Then, run as far as you can away from that place since that business is nothing but a rip-off. This is especially true in Kiev. There are so may other possibilities and they all cost much less and are all significantly more cost-effective.

As someone who has lived in Budapest, Hungary and traveled to Tallinn, Kiev and Minsk I can honestly say walking around Kiev or any Eastern European city without your passport is not only hazardous but unwise. However, I understand there are those with equal if not more experience in Kiev and Eastern Europe than I have who don't practice keeping their passport with them at all times. I actually met an American guy at River Palace two years ago who told me he never carried his passport with him. He had lived in Kiev for six years and learned to speak some Russian before moving back to Michigan. He related a story of how he was stopped by police and asked for his passport. When he couldn't produce it he simply gave the cop 100 or 200 UAH and he let him go.

Personally I don't think its worth the risk of being arrested, especially since the authorities are cracking down on everything in Kiev, or so I have read. I mean, can you imagine how unpleseant a Ukraine jail would be?

As for bringing a chick to your flat, take a taxi. The taxi can drop you off at the front door of your flat and that keeps the police from noticing you on the street. Failing that, be careful not to speak english too loudly when the police are around. Really, you have to be awfully unlucky or completely clueless to get nabbed by the cops bringing a chick to your flat, in my opinion, anyway.

[QUOTE=CanadianBoy;1277714]As someone who has lived in Budapest, Hungary and traveled to Tallinn, Kiev and Minsk I can honestly say walking around Kiev or any Eastern European city without your passport is not only hazardous but unwise.[/QUOTE]+1. Cops in Ukraine or Moldova are very much a pain in the ass. That said, oddly enough, in Uzbekistan which is a politically repressive police state with cops literally everywhere, I have never ever been controlled for passport (and in fact never had it with me). Tashkent is in this respect much more relaxed than Kiev or Chisinau.

[QUOTE=Tomux 22; 1277661]I might be wrong, but reading this forum it dose look like most forengers pay this price in Kiev. Even ukraine are in the middle of crysis.

And I completley agree paying the same price for escort in Kiev like in Milan or London is insane.[/QUOTE]Avoid top tourist attractions like Budha bar, D Lux and some web sites.

Rely on local joints, Mamba and even the Street (you have to be very luck to pick up from street).

It require more hard work but definitely cheaper.

I know a few who ask USD 300 in Budha bar and USD 100 on Mamba.

Good luck

I visited Kiev many times over the past 5 years. On 3 different occasions a cop asked me for I'd and I always showed is my drivers license, as I normally carry that in my wallet. The conversation with the cops never took more than 3 minutes and that was it. I walked alone in the streets of Kiev (in the center) at all hours, never had a problem either.

GIA girls are real, but very heavy photoshoped. I sent most of them home.

Most girls in Top-Modals are fake pics. I will try my luck again when I return next week. Some that have comments from clients appear to be more 'real'. Today I saw the pics and description of Majya, Bella, Rita, Eva, Daisy, Nelja, Lera and Alinochka (that is how their names appear when Google translates the pages). If you have any experience with them, please let me know.

True all I read here about Buddah Bar. The escorts at the bar have a horrible attitude and they certainly look very expensive. Maybe if you can stay up till 4 AM and they did not get a client, the prices are lower. By then, my stamina is gone.

River Palace was paradise, but they towed the boat away. For what I read here, and from my walking around Kyiv, there is not quite a replacement. There were pros there, but also some newbies and semi-pros, civilians trying to make a buck. I miss it very much!